♪ host: good morning on this wednesday, august 9. yesterday president biden visited the grand canyon and announced a new monument as part

of the western toward the tout administration efforts to combat climate change while arguing to spur economic growth. we will get your take on the president's efforts in the first hour. here is how you can dial in. republicans, (202) 748-8000. democrats, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. you can join us in a text. include your first name, city, and state to (202) 748-8003. or, on facebook.com/he spent. -- facebook.com/c-span. good morning, everyone. let's get to your thoughts in a minute. take a look at this recent poll done by the washington post and university of maryland. most of the people they pulled disapprove of biden's handling

of climate change. less than three in 10 americans say they know a good or great deal about the inflation reduction act, though many voters support some of its keep climate programs. the president this week talking about the one-year anniversary of signing in the law that inflation reduction act and touting its climate provisions. here is a reminder of what was in that bill. $369 billion total. $10 billion in tax credi to build electric vehicles, solar panels and wind turbines. 00 tax credit rebates for electric vehicle purchases. you had $20 billion for loans to promote electric vehicle manufacturing, $9 billion for ener efficient home retrofits, $20 billion to assist farmers and ranchers for climate change

impacts. going back to that pole, they dove into those provisions. most americans have not heard about the inflation reduction act or its climate incentives. when they asked how much have you read or heard about each of the following, expanding tax credits even salsa live panels, 66% said a little or nothing they have hurt. 75% her little or nothing of it expanding tax credits to manufacturers, solar panels and wind turbines. 77% said they had heard nothing or little on tax credits to buy heat pumps. 71% said overall when it comes to the inflation reduction act they have heard little or nothing. when the washington post asks if you support those types of proposals, the majority said yes.

your view on the biden administration's energy agenda. let's listen to the president yesterday in arizona near the grand canyon describing climate change as an existential threat and what his administration is doing to combat it. [video] >> we have seen historic floods, more intense droughts, wildfires spreading smoky haze that i can sense today thousands of miles, record temperatures affecting more than 100 million americans this summer. i need not tell you over 110 degrees in phoenix for 31 straight days. extreme heat is america's number one weather-related killer. it kills more people than floods, hurricanes and tornadoes combined. it is threatening the farms,

forests, and fisheries so many families depend on to make a living. none of this need be inevitable. we have taken an unprecedented action to combat climate crisis. last year, i signed the largest climate bill in the history of united states and literally in the history of the world. the biggest investment and climate conservation and environment of justice ever anywhere in the history of the world. [applause] it has many parts. for example, it will save working families thousands of dollars a year to install rooftop solar, rubberized their home and conserve energy. it includes $720 million for native communities to ease the impact of droughts and rising sea levels and bringing clean

electricity to tribal homes. these historic measures put us on track to cut all american emissions in half -- in half by 2030. we are well on our way. host: president biden in arizona yesterday. he's on a western tour this week to talk about climate change and what the administration is doing to combat it. we want you to join us in this conversation. give us your view of the administration's efforts. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. this is also about the upcoming election. take a look at the arizona central newspaper and the headline. "president joe biden is visiting arizona where he is deep underwater and polling." -- in polling."

but according to a poll done in the west, though surveyed found there is broad support for this national monument that the president announced yesterday. nearly one million acres preserved, limits uranium mining, and has broad support out west. if you live out west this morning, please join us in this conversation this morning. let's go to mitchell in new jersey, democratic caller. good morning to you. caller: good morning, greta. rather than my rail on about the politics of all this, i want to give a personal anecdote about what happened to me last week. i went out to visit my son and grandchildren in the denver area. while i was there his subaru broke down. he decided to look into an

electric vehicle. he wound up getting one of the chevy bolts. he got i think it was $11,000 to $12,000 rebate. i heard a lot of complaints about these electric vehicles not being affordable. i don't quite understand that. first of all, you are saving a tremendous amount of money on the energy it takes to charge the car. these cars -- today's vehicles have ranges of about 250 miles per charge and up. we have been complaining for decades. even if you want to take climate out of the equation, we have

been complaining for many years about how we are held hostage to the oil industry and opec. we can see it is doing -- i personally believe it is doing a lot of damage to our environment. there are opportunities here for us as a society. we should take a fresh look at it. host: you agree with this direction the administration is going and those provisions in the inflation reduction act. $20 billion for loans to promote electric vehicle manufacturing, and a $7,500 tax credit be for electric vehicle purchases. you agree that is the direction the country needs to go? caller: i think it is one of the directions we need to go. just from an economic standpoint, for those of you who still doubt climate science, which is another conversation i

won't get into, i would look at it from your own economic feasibility. these vehicles make a lot of sense. they are cheaper to operate. the maintenance costs are lower. they have come quite a long ways. i would take advantage of some of the programs that are out there for your own benefit. host: mitchell in new jersey. you may be interested in this headline. a proposed battle plan for the next republican presidency includes eliminating a biden era clean energy act that funneled hundreds of billions to primarily red states. conservative organizations have released a proposed battle plan for the next republican president. the plan calls for the president to end the inflation reduction act which has primarily benefited red states. the 2022 bill funneled hundreds of billions to clean energy projects like oklahoma and

texas. james from pittsburgh, independent. good morning to you. caller: hi, greta. i do believe the two-party system will ever work. we have blood as humans and the earth has oil. if you dig up all the oil, it is like draining a human's blood. same thing. do you have any questions, greta? host: john in brooklyn, democratic caller. caller: i think president biden is the best president we've had in a long time. i can remember eisenhower. i was too young to understand politics but i remember from john f. k. biden is the best way comes to the concerns of america. the economy, helping poor people. inflation. there is no inflation. host: we are talking about the climate.

what grade do you give him on the climate? caller: an 'a' all the way around. i will bring climate into it. i wanted to make my outline. climate is because -- it costs a lot of money. i remember climate in the 1970's when we had a lot of smoke in america. you could hardly go outside. i remember in the 1960's and 1970's with ddt and other chemicals. they dumped them in the rivers and on the land. people were dying. the bird, the eagle. they headed on the species list. let me say this. hello? host: we are listening, john. getting back to the climate. caller: i want to talk about the climate. host: you have to do it quickly.

caller: his bill is the best bill for the economy. it helps the economy. these cars. i remember when people didn't with use tractors on the farm. they are too heavy. that was part of growing america and the american economy. and the climate. same thing with these electric cars. electric cars are coming. that is the future. that is the best thing to do. it stops from burning oil. host: got it. on facebook, donna lee -- greg moser says there's a climate and energy agenda other than making the energy companies wealthier at the cost of the environment. drill, baby, drill will not work. frankie says it is just another scam to rich themselves and their partners.

-- enrich themselves and their partners. sergio from schenectady, new york. caller: thank you for taking my call. i just don't understand the disconnect of reality people saying the climate change is not occurring. climate change is not -- a simple thing. i had have my homeowners insurance renewed. my insurance bill went up 25%. why? hurricanes, floods, etc. we are seeing the effects of climate change all over. there is this denialism that i don't understand. the second point is about the polls. i'm an independent. i watch fox and i watch cnn and i watch them is to bc. -- msnbc. i have to question a polling is effective. when you are pulling the group of people who just watch fox, and it's well-documented, fox watchers only watch fox.

they are fed a constant stream of attacks on climate change,, attacks on president biden attack attack attack. i have to believe in pollsters are calling these people they will be negative in many ways. i have to question the effectiveness of polling now. i really think the right wing blogospher will skew those poll results. thank you for taking my call and i hope my republican counterparts start open up their eyes and their ears to reality. host: donald from missouri, independent caller. hi, donald. caller: hello. about climate, you know, of course we need to stop pollution. that is just common sense.

after noah got the animals out of the ark and the lord said to him as long as the earth remains they will be seedtime and harvest, hot and cold, winter and summer, day and night. these people have got there panties in a wad. it is just a waste, a big waste. we have always let the free market decide. it is proven to make the united states the most successful nation in the world. the free market economy. every time joe biden says we are going to get a spending bill out here you can just picture a hand reaching into your wallet and taking money out through this inflation . don't deny there is no inflation. it is awful. he goes down to the -- he's got

criticism so he deflects. he goes down and opens up a national monument. looks like he's at the southern border. what a joke. host: that was the fifth national monument designated by this president. from the wall street journal's reporting, they note more than 900,000 acres of public land that was preserved in the announcement. the announcement was nave near -- made near the grand canyon. he's made five monuments as part of conservation efforts. several tribes have sought permit protection of ancestral homelands in the grand canyon region, has have environmentalists. the mining industry has opposed curtailing access to uranium deposits in the area, arguing it will undermine the efforts to reduce more energy in the united states and increased dependence on russia for the critical

nuclear power fuel. in 2012, the obama administers and imposed a 20-year ban on the regaining -- new uranium mining around the grand canyon. that becomes permanent in the newly protected areas. existing mining claims will not be affected. from the new york times reporting on the president's announcement. their headline, "in national monument choice biden tries to balance electoral reality." a mining ban to appease climate activists and tribes is what they note. from the reporting they say after spending most of his appearance near the grand canyon describing how his fifth national monument designation would preserve sagebrush, bighorn sheep and 450 kinds of birds, he said protecting the land long held sacred by maven echo leaders was not just a matter of the environment. he said that she talked about

how this would spur on the economy as well. from the washington post reporting on the announcement yesterday, biden designates new national monument in arizona. local tribal leaders and environment a list have said the move will protect aquifers and water supplies, and on long-standing native american connections to the land. returning from a weeklong vacation, biden arrived in arizona monday evening to begin a three-state to work largely designed to revoke his climate agenda and the billions of dollars in investment is inflation reduction act is pouring into clean energy. that is our conversation this morning. your view of the biden administration's climate and energy agenda. mike in pittsburgh, republican. caller: thank you for taking my call, credit. thanks for c-span. i feel this climate change

agenda is very bad for americans, very bad for the economy. not even necessarily good for the environment. all the minerals and things we are using to produce electricity are these hard metals, the lithiums, all these petals that china is doing so much to -- that's bad for the averment. not only that but all the sources we have to buy from china because they are using these. they are capitalizing. i hate to use the word. host: you disagree with the decision to protect from uranium mining, to prohibit it? caller: to limit mining, yes. uranium has been off-limits. everything biden has done has hurt america's interests to

produce their own energy. that is the problem. we can do things to protect our environment. like the other gentleman said, he was on the other side of the fence. he likes all these things, but he said i remember we had all this pollution or you could not walk down the street and see the hand and funnier face. where things are so horrible in our air quality. now we have 10 times as many cars on the road as we had back then and we have relatively clean air compared to that. we have done amazing things to keep our air and water cleaner. not perfect, but we certainly have done more than china is doing in all this mining they are doing which is completely

irrespective of the averment. my last point is about fascism. i love it when democrats keep saying all this is fetishistic and republicans are being fascist and donald trump is a fascist. it is actually the biden --biden is forcing us to buy electric cars. he's using the government to do it. it is no different when hitler forced everyone to buy volkswagens to achieve his efforts. host: mike in pittsburgh. the wall street journal editorial this morning on the mining aspect of what biden did yesterday. they say it is a gift to vladimir putin. the statement omits the land also is america's only source of high grade uranium ore. the u.s. imports about 95% of uranium used for nuclear power

reactors, mostly from caustic stand, canada, russia and australia. russia is the u.s.'s third-biggest uranium source. mr. biden banned russian fossil fuels last spring but u.s. nuclear plant continue to rely on russian uranium for 12% of the fuel supplied. the new national monuments will make it that much harder for the u.s. to replace russian uranium. vladimir putin sends his thanks. june in wisconsin, independent. caller: hi. host: we are listening to you, june. your thoughts of the administration's climate and energy agenda? caller: i think he is trying his best to do what is best for the environment and for us. we have to think beyond politics and think about the whole

environment we live in. we have to save the forests, save the energy. it's a good thing he's doing. host: malcolm in louisiana, republican. caller: good morning, america. i have a few points i would like to make. as a practicing catholic that believes life starts at conception, i -- they can investigate me anytime they want. term limits. i would love to see the congress have -- host: we are not in open forum. we are talking about climate and energy. caller: ok. climate and energy. anything biden wants i have to be against. the government is not factual in anything they say anymore. as far as climate change, the earth has been around for billions of years. there has never been a time when the environment was stable.

the climate was the same. we have had periods where the place was covered completely with ice, and periods when they did not have any ice. all you have to do is check on these things. what are we worried about so much? this country cannot do it all. it is destroying our economy. it is helping out the people we don't like, the russians and the chinese and these kind of people. host: listen to republican senator john barrasso front of rasco criticizing -- from nebraska criticizing the president's energy policies. here is what he had to say in recent weeks. [video] >> every week and hear about the high prices and joe biden is the president of high prices. you think was such a bad report card the president would let up a little he didn't. he accelerated his attacks on

affordable american energy. the prices are up 16% since he has taken over. people need some relief. joe biden is so desperate to win the support of the environment of extremists that will do -- he will do whatever they want. that's what he's come out on new attacks on oil and gas that will raise the cost at the pump, raise the cost in the grocery store and to heat and cool your home. these attacks are so bad that they will force a number of oil and gas workers to lose their jobs, and that could be tens of thousands. from my home state of wyoming, we are america's energy breadbasket. it will be especially devastating. i often wonder if these elitist from the coast have any clue and understanding of whether energy comes from and where their food comes from. my former colleague talked about a book called "the hidden america." from coal miners to cowboys, the

unseen americans who really make this country work. joe biden could learn a lot from reading the book and from talking to the coal miners and the cowboys all across this country. it is these heroes, these hard-working heroes who are the ones that are most being hurt by joe biden and the democrats who are out of touch with america. host: republican perspective on the biden administration's energy policy. we are getting your view on that. dan in omaha, nebraska. independent. caller: i agree with the republicans on most issues. because the democrats have gone so far to the left. i used to be a democrat. i have never been a republican but i have to vote republican because democrats are out to lunch. i want to say one thing about

the climate. i thank god i live in a period of global warming. i have done research on climate change. during the periods of global warming, which we have a history -- it happens. we can tell how to get to the states but i don't have enough time to find that. is usually hundreds of years long. you will either be an global warming or global cooling. and warming the populations explode. in times of global cooling the populations of earth declined dramatically. as far as i'm concerned, they are assbackwards in their understanding. it's a good thing we live in

global warming. it is a horrible thing to live in times of global cooling where the plague and all kinds of things happen because of lack of sunshine and damp, dreary conditions. i'm totally in favor of exploring our own ability to provide our own needs when it comes to energy and not rely on russia and china and our adversaries and continually make them more powerful, more rich. if you have questions about the climate, i would be willing to explore that with you. i don't know how much time you give me. host: we will go to keith in arizona. we showed our viewers earlier president biden underwater and pol -- in polls in arizona.

this tour is part of his reelection efforts to tout what he is doing on climate and energy. what you think about the moves he made yesterday to make part of the grand canyon area a national monument? caller: i think it was totally misplaced. i'm an independent and try to look at both sides. not being able to mine our own uranium is silly to me, because every resource we have he locks it up. creates other per -- he locks it up and creates other problems. the free market should reign over the situation. when things are pushed to the top and bottom, things are forced down your throat. people take a hard look at that and say, what is their real objective? i think it is money. i think by him not going to the

border when he was here in arizona, just a short helicopter right away -- ride away was insulting to the state. i think a lot of people in arizona are insulted over that because our counties on the border are just being devastated. it is horrible. we see the effects coming up into the upper counties and beyond into the interior of the united states. we see everyday what is happening with joe biden's policies. they just don't make any sense. host: to your point, contrasting what he did yesterday with what you think he should have been focused on, border security. the washington post says nearly one million acres have been set aside as a national monument. it is to protect and conserve at least 30% of american land and

water by 2030. what you think of that effort given you are in arizona to protect and conserve water? caller: most of the water we get in maricopa county here comes from the verde river system. we have very large aquifers here in arizona. i don't think any of that was mentioned. the colorado, which supply some water, mostly supplies california. we have in the state taken very big measures to lessen the use of water. all of our golf courses have to have a fitment. host: have to go into what? caller: a refitment, or shrinking. in my community there are five golf courses. one of them is getting shortened by have to accommodate desk to keep the other four golf courses. on the other four they are doing

retrofits on the speakers. arizona has taken a good approach. the free markets did that. it is not from the government. the government cannot make your life better. when the government knocks on your door saying we are here to help -- host: did they do it because of the cost of water or because they are trying to avoid being taxed? caller: i don't think they are trying to avoid being taxed. in arizona right now all of these farmlands, year-round producers, are being turned into concrete jungles with homes on them. they are saying it is less money, less water usage on 200 houses instead of having 200

acres that would supply food for our country. host: joey in atlanta, republican. caller: good morning. i want to give you a little bit of information. let's separate the climate and the environment. climate was created by god. there is nothing any human can literally do to change or control the climate. the environment is something we can control. we can keep our oceans clean. we can keep our lakes clean. we can keep rivers clean. we can build smarter. we can build stronger. we can try to avoid things that will hurt the environment. host: how can we do that? what are the top three solutions? caller: this might come out to be a surprise to you but the bible -- don't get upset. the bible is clear about climate. the bible tells us about hurricanes and thunderstorms and earthquakes and floods way

before airplanes and cars and all the technology we use today. were even looked at or imagined. we still had hurricanes and tornadoes and floods. you name it, we had it. i know some people want to blame climate on the flood of noah, but that was god's plan and there is nothing we can do. let's stop trying to scare people about the climate and try to push an agenda that is based on all fake information. if you read the bible, and i know some of you are going to get upset, if you think what's going on now, if you think our hurricanes and thunderstorms and earthquakes and floods are bad now, you are going to be coming into a surprise. it is only going to get worse. host: the washington post this morning has a story you and

others may be interested in. alaska's newest gold rush. seaweed. in the cold waters the latest frontier and farming can save livelihoods. it is used to process sugar kelp. seaweed as a replacement for lettuce in salad and fossil fuels in plastics and fertilizers. jeff from spring hill, florida. democratic caller. good morning to you. caller: good morning to you too. first of all, i would like for the washington journal to tell people just exactly what percentage of uranium is being mined or potentially mind for that area -- mined from that area. i think it is about 7%. i would like to know whether or

not the restriction on mining is restricted to uranium. for instance, can you mine thorium, a better metal to use then uranium? i would like to remind all these guys who say, you know, god is going to fix everything and that all this is a scare tactic. i would like to remind you of ronald reagan. he ran and said the ozone was nothing more than a scam. then, once he was elected, the scientists finally walked into his office and lay down the evidence that said we are going to be dead in five years if you don't fix something. he said you are right and he fixed it. now we can all agree use those chemicals and our air conditioning that was causing it

-- in our air conditioning that was causing it. the same thing we have now. host: about your point about the grand canyon, how much uranium is there. this is from grand canyon trust, their website. they say let's look at one million acres of federal public land surrounding grand canyon national park. the most generous answer as to how much uranium is there is 3.7% of u.s. uranium. that is if we are taking uranium reserves plus what uranium, plus speculative resources. reserves are known uranium deposits to actually be mined under certain conditions. 3.7%, less than what you mentioned. in other news this morning,

front page of the washington post, the supreme court reinstates the ghost gun rule. the supreme court reinstated the biden administration's regulations on ghost gun firearms assembled from kits without serial numbers and background checks on purchasers. a temporary decision by the supreme court. front page of the washington post. also in ohio, many of you maybe are following that election yesterday on abortion. this is from the columbus dispatch. ohio issue 1 failed after voters went to the polls for the august special election. if passed, it would have required 60% of voters to pass a new constitutional amendment instead of a simple majority of 50% plus one. peer acquired citizens who want to place in a minute to collect signatures release 5% of voters from the last gubernatorial election in all 88 counties

instead of the current 44. it eliminated 10-date period -- 10-day period to a limit signatures deemed faulty by the secretary of state's office. this is related -- the new york times frames of this white. abortion rights get lifted ohio as gop bid fails in that state. voters rejecting an effort to make constitutional changes harder. allen in stanley, virginia. we are talking about climate change and energy from the biden administration. caller: good morning. i have a point and i have a question. the first one i would like to make, anything that joe biden does is bad for the country. i can't think of one good thing he's done for america. in addition to that, in my

opinion, based on the information, he's corrupt. the second point i want to make about the climate, i have electricity. what is going to feed the grid to make electricity to build electric cars? how do we survive without fossil fuels? i would like to hear that question answered. i hear from scientists and things. how do you make electricity without gasoline or fuel? explain that to me. i would like to understand that. host: a.j. in hawaii, republican. caller: good morning, greta. i don't know which direction to go in. there are other ways to reduce electricity other than fossil fuels. he needs to get with the program. the previous caller, the guy from arizona talking about the water crisis there forgot to mention or did not know that

saudi arabia is mining hundreds of acres of alfalfa with arizona water, which is very precious. i lived in that area for many years. the other guy was to bring in jonah or wants to bring in noah's ark. what i wanted to say is you nailed it when you started the program talking about how little people know about climate change. host: that is not what we read. the polls show biden's approval rating on the climate is like 57%. people knew little about what he's trying to do on the climate in the inflation reduction act. caller: got it. thanks. i appreciate that. in my mind the problem in this country, not just on this issue

but other issues also is the dysfunctional and very frightened american press. they don't talk about anything biden does. they leave it up to biden to explain everything he does. they don't talk about the climate change things he's doing. the american public is incredibly poorly informed. on other issues too, like inflation. americans think only we have inflation. the whole rest of the world has inflation. people call into this program every single morning complaining about gas prices. we pay less for our gas -- i'm getting a little jumbled. we pay less for our gas than half the rest of the world. try checking the prices in italy

and the u.k. and other places. host: business and finance section of the washington journal this morning says your electricity bills are also likely to decline. electricity prices vary widely with the seasons and the weather but americans pay more for power than they did before the pandemic and russia's invasion of ukraine. boston has been hit with a 23% hike over the past year to $.32 per kilowatt. new york city and phoenix rate helds fast at $.25 and $.16 per kilowatt. this is expected to go down. a slide in prices of coal has only begun feeding through to ratepayers according to some wall street analysts. you can read more if you go to the wall street journal, wsj .com. sharon in pennsylvania,

democratic color. caller: good morning. my voice is not optimal. host: we can hear you just fine. caller: number one, uranium mining leaves caling. this severely impacts people's health. particularly native americans. i had the privilege to visit the hopi reservation. it is a shock to see a culture that can survive and be content without constantly looking for profits for grab, grab, grab, greed. these people are owed respect. number three. our world seems to be the

economy versus environment. we need ways to live, of course. but the people that trumpet religion consummate seemed to be the one to trumpet rip it to shreds for the economy. thank you. host: connie in pennsylvania, republican. what do you have to say on this? caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. a couple of points, not very many. first of all, this is in reference to the recent caller, a gentleman in georgia. i give you a standing ovation to your comments referring to the bible and the weather. may i add asking everyone to read revelations to find out what is ultimately going to be coming of this world and the

weather. point number two is, what truly do you know about climate change? may i encourage everyone to google or duck duck go tregeru. look up climate change. there are 30 videos, five minutes long, that's it. 30 videos from scientists regarding climate change. get a different point of view and then you make your own assessment. but make sure you see all points of view, not just the majority, but the minority as well. host: connie from pennsylvania. a few headlines on the biden administration's efforts to curb climate change and energy in the inflation reduction act. the one-year-old law is turbocharging clean energy

technology. from frankfort, kentucky, a recent day in the july sun, freeman heaved solar candles on a house a few miles upstream from the state capital where lawmakers have promoted coal for more than a century. the law that was passed a year ago offers a 30% discount off this installation via tax credits. that is helping push clean energy into places where coal still provides cheap electricity. there is this headline from reuters.com. biden's carbon proposal is unworkable says the u.s. power sector. they are warning this in august of this year. u.s. power plant owners warned the administration its sweeping plans to slash carbon emissions is unworkable, relying too heavy on costly technologies that are not yet proven at scale.

you also have this headline from the pittsburgh post-gazette. a new study finds biden's climate law only halfs greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. fred from pennsylvania, democratic caller. good morning. caller: good morning. i called because i think president biden is doing an excellent job. it will take time for his policies to take effect. things have to take time with change. two things i would like to say. we were told by ronald reagan if we drilled in the arctic and had the alaska pipeline we were going to have plenty of oil and end energy independence -- energy dependence. we spent hundreds of millions of dollars on the pipeline and all the oil is shipped to japan and china and india and around the world. none of it comes to the contiguous united states. the other point to the gentleman in arizona, saudi arabia has one

of hundreds of thousands of acres of land that was once farmland. now they are drilling into the aquifers and into -- pouring all that water into making alfalfa. where is the alfalfa going? do they own cattle ranches or something around? joe biden is doing the best he can and it takes time. people have to realize it will hurt a while. things are going to turn around and joe is doing a good job. host: frank in cranberry township, pennsylvania. democratic caller. caller: yes. i worked in a steel mill for 35 years. when i first started i worked in the metal shop. you could not see another man 10 feet away from you from the smog. through the years they have

corrected and done a good job on that. as far as smog in pittsburgh, the -- most of the steel mills have incentive china. -- have been sent to china. all the air pollution has been sent to china. as far as gas prices go, i see record profits in the gas companies. i don't see any lines from shortages. i don't see shortages in the gas. i think they are just raising the prices to ruin biden. have a good day and thank you very much. host: a republican in los angeles. good morning to you. caller: thank you for c-span. climate change is so important to 70 people in the campaign -- so many people that they

campaign on it. it has to do with keeping the world safe, keeping the of arbuckle safe. the bad is nobody cares. if you look at u.s. news of april 2023, it shows china and india and us. the most carbon emissions in the world. china and india both increased in the past five years. we are the only ones that have gone down. they have increased by a lot. if he were to keep going at this rate and you put all the money and stuff we could be putting into education, into the border, antipoverty, into homelessness -- into poverty, putting it in the climate change, none of the rest of the world is doing anything about it. he will be us versus everybody. the solution is -- go ahead. host: your argument is we should not be putting as much money and

effort into this until we get other countries to come along? caller: absolutely. it will be a global effort. we are a big part of it but the other countries -- china has 120 million people in poverty. india, first or second most population the world, a third of their population and party. they don't eat. the poverty there is third world party. they're supposed to invest their money into solar plants? they have other priorities right now. that is why it will be all responsibly. host: listen to what the secretary of state set on this recently. if the u.s. does its part or more, it will influence other countries. [video] >> we are in a position where every g-7 country, the world's leading economies, every g-7 economy has adopted plans that

implemented -- if implement it would hold warming to 1.5 degrees celsius. the same cannot be said of the g20, the g 13 beyond the g-7. one thing we have to do and we are working on is to help countries, encourage countries, prod countries to make the necessary progress and adopt the necessary targets and implement them. we have made the single largest investment in history and combating climate change through the inflation reduction act. we demonstrated we are serious about this and we will have the tools to make good. here is what i think. when it comes to china, if it wants to be seen as a responsible leader globally, it has to be responsive to signals it is getting from the region and around the world. one of those demand signals, and that will be the case at cop 28, is to take necessary actions to curb emissions and to do what is necessary to get to 1.5 degrees celsius. this is an ongoing conversation.

it's important that they renewed that dialogue and can vent desk convey a sense of urgency -- and conveyed a sense of urgency. if you're sitting in beijing's shoes you are looking at this challenge on the one hand, and the imperative they feel the focus on growth, economic growth. >> their economy -- >> they have not had the rebound anticipated getting out of covid. for china right now that is job number one. there's a real tension between that and the absolute imperative of dealing urgently with climate challenge. host: the secretary of state recently at a security forum. we have a few minutes left. your view of the biden administration's climate and energy agenda. robert in colorado, democratic caller. caller: hello. i think what we have going on right now -- only the elite will

ever do anything. the elite are not worth a damn as far as i'm concerned. i don't know. being a democrat all my life i have seen 95 years. i see nothing but democrats screwing up every time they get in charge. they screw up everything we've got. just like right now. a few years ago, four dollars gas. then it was two dollars or less. why did they stop everything? sure, they say we drill and we will ruin the world because it will collapse. no way as far as i can see. that is my opinion. host: joe in woodbridge, virginia. republican. what is your opinion, joe? caller: thanks for taking my

call and thanks for c-span. my opinion is that the term man-made climate change is an invention. i don't believe it. i believe the science and i believe history over time. history has proven that the earth goes through cyclic changes in the weather. i believe in climate change. i believe climate change is some way the weather. we have this brainwashing going on that man can somehow control have any degrees or how hot it is. if people just study history they will see the earth has gone through -- even recently before the industrial revolution there was a warming period from 682 about 1400. -- 600 ad to about 1400. that is when the viking started settling greenland and iceland and north america and canada.

then we went from a cold period from 1400 to 1800, the vikings went back to their areas. as far as the solution i would say i am not onboard board with the biden administration. i don't know if anyone has been paying attention to the fusion reactors we have successfully been testing in the united states that produce more energy than they are consuming to reduce energy. i think fusion energy is the next answer to solving pollution and a lot of the world's energy problems. i think we should stop wasting money in solar panels and stop trying to destroy the oil and gas industry, because it is cheap, efficient, and abundant. we should just bridge the gap with oil and gas and for all that money we are wasting into green energy into fusion reactor

production. host: others point to nuclear power. the front page of the washington times. nuclear power emerges as the most reliable clean energy. president biden traveling the west to promote his net zero admissions goals. one of the nation's largest generators of clean energy power powers through its second week of operations in georgia without windmills or solar panels and an awkward fit into the left's climate change agenda. the plant began commercial operation on july 31. the reactor, 30 miles south of augustine, is generating enough power for half a million homes and may herald a renaissance for the u.s. nuclear power industry, which has been declining since 1991. front page of the washington times if you are interested. let's go to joan, democratic

caller: good morning, c-span. good morning, america. it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out -- when we were going to school, even elementary school, we were told if you break the ozone layer, the earth would heat up. no disregard to the space program, but how many holes do you think we have in the ozone layer that is causing climate change? it is just food for thought. host: a reminder to you and others, mute your television, listen and talk through your phone. we will take more of your calls, up next we will talk with the former cbo director keith hall to discuss the u.s. credit

rating downgrade and what it says about rising government debt and political dysfunction here in washington. later, kristen brengel of the national parks conversation association discusses the state of america's national parks. stay with us this morning. ♪ >> c-span campaign 2024 coverage your front row seat to the presidential election. watch coverage of candidates on the campaign trail with announcements, meet and greets, speeches and events to make up your own mind. campaign 2024 on the c-span networks. c-span now, the free mobile video app or anytime online at c-span.org. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. >> if you ever miss any of

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it looks like this, where americans can see democracy at work, where citizens are truly informed and the public thrives. get informed straight from the source on c-span. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word from the nation's capital to wherever you are. to get the opinion that matters most, your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span, powered by cable. >> washington journal continues. host: joining us this morning is keith hall, the former director of the congressional budget office from 2019, let us begin with defining a credit rating. what is it and why does it matter? guest: it is not unlike the credit rating all of us individually have. it is credit services that are looking at debt.

the federal government has been outspending revenues and making up for that by borrowing. they are evaluating the credit worthiness of the federal government. according to fitch, we always had a aaa highest rating and they have lowered it to a aa+, which is an indication they are a little less pertinent in the u.s. ability to constantly repay the debt. fitch is one of the big three credit agencies. all three have credit ratings on the u.s. government. s&p lowered their rating in 2011, so now two out of three credit agencies have lowered the rating because of federal debt. this is an indication they believe the risk of default is not high, but has gone up a bit

because of the size of the debt, the continued borrowing, the political troubles and coming to agreements on spending. they are all things places like the congressional budget office have been pointing out to congress for years and years as being concerns. host: we will get more to that rationale, but what does it mean for the u.s. government and taxpayers? guest: in the near term -- there has been a little disruption in the credit markets, the cost of borrowing has gone up a little bit. they are constantly issuing new debt to pay off old debt. they have to pay interest. the interest rate has ticked up a little bit. it will probably go back down, but that is the ultimate concern over time.

if the confidence in the federal government goes down enough, they have to pay more and more to borrow money and there always -- already paying rather a lot. host: you noted two out of the three credit rating services have downgraded the u.s. government. what is moody saying, the third? guest: they are holding fast to the aaa rating. i have not heard them characterize what they are concerned about. fitch made noises they were not happy with what was going on. they did not give us a big surprise by lowering the credit rating. the s&p in 2011 said the same thing moody did, the same concerns from the credit bureaus started in 2011 and they are continuing now into 2023 area i believe the s&p has made noises about potentially lowering the credit rating more in the future

if we do not get our act together. host: lower than a aa+? guest: that is right. host: what would that mean? guest: more of the same. it is a rising level of risk, in their view, which is why they are lowering the rating a little bit. in the near term, this is probably not a real concern. there will not be a big meltdown in credit markets. this is sort of a warning signal. and it should be taken seriously. this is a signal that it might be on the horizon at some point. it could be decades.

this is something the congressional budget office has told congress more than once. when the debt gets high, they raise the risk of real financial issues where they will have to start paying a lot more in interest. right now, we pay $650 billion a year just in interest costs. that is more than we spend on medicaid. it is only going to grow in the direction we are heading, because we continue to borrow and we are on trajectory to raise debt over the next 10, 15, 30 years and beyond. host: what fitch had to say in their statement about their decision to lower the credit rating. there has been a steady deterioration and standards of governance over the last 20

yearluding fiscal and debt mattersnotwithstanding the june bipartisan agreement to suspend the limit until ja2025. the repeated politica standoff and last-minute resolutions have eroded confidence fcal management. in addition, the government las medium-term fiscal fram unlike most peers, and complex budgeting process. e factors along with several economic shocks and new spending initiatives have contributed to excessive debt increases over the last decade. additionally, there's en limited progress in tackling medium-term challenges related to rising social security and medicare costs due to an aging population. there is a lot just in that statement. guest: to be honest, you could pick up a cbo report and see all of those things mentioned in the report.

the congressional budget office, they are the budget experts who advise congress on the budget. the last five or six have all said debt is on an unsustainable path. every fed chair, at least for five fed chair's all characterize the growth in debt as unsustainable. in a sense, this is not news. just articulating some of the things others have been saying for a long time. it sounds awful and it is awful, but it is not a crisis that is looming in the next year or two, but it is somewhere down the road and there are consequences to this. there are lots of little side effects of having this debt continually go up and we are not dealing with it. host: from the statement, i want to pull out this one part. the government lacks a medium-term fiscal framework unlike most peers and has a

complex budgeting process. what is it getting at? guest: they are getting at a plan. even when i was director, we were suggesting to congress at least privately that they need to think of a debt target. debt right now is about $32 trillion. think of a debt target and plan on lowering the borrowing level over time to some sort of target level, that is just a medium-term plan. other countries have done that. not all of the countries, but some of them responsible and some not. we have seen what they would have to do to get this done. you see it year after year. they do not get anything done by deadlines, they run it down to the end with no agreement.

the budget process is just a real mess and it is a problem of lack of cooperation. whoever is in power on the budget completely runs the show and the minority party has no input in the formulation of the annual budget. you cannot get enough votes easily to pass the budget because you do not have participation from minority party. host: fitch calls it a complex budgeting process, you seem to be describing it as dysfunctional. what is the difference? guest: if they followed it, it would be complex. it has got lots of pieces to it. they set out a plan. the president is supposed to submit a budget, congress is supposed to evaluate and create their own plan. once they publish the plan, they sit down and work out the details.

here are a dozen appropriations bills, here is how we are going to spend money over the next years in detail. what i just said is supposed to be done by april 15. we have not done it yet, we did not do it last year by april 15. the bills did not have to get passed by congress, sent to the president, then it has to become law. there are a lot of steps. they certainly could simplify it. in my view, it is complicated. the real core problem is congress has set up deadlines and a process that they do not follow. they have people making up their own rules and they do not follow the rules they have made up. host: you are describing discretionary spending, so reminder for viewers, determined on an annuabasis by congress and the president, 12 separate

appropriations bills are supposed to move annually through congress by appropriations committees. defense represents more than half of all discretionary spending. other major spending is homeland securityfo safety, science and space programs, disaster assistance, public housing and federal law enforcement. that is discretionary. what about mandatory spending? medicare, medicaid, social security, federal retirement programs, veterans programs. how does that play into what you are talking about? guest: that is the problem. all the mandatory programs are not part of the annual budget process, they work on automatic. those discretionary settings -- things, that's only about 27% of the budget.

73% of the budget is on automatic. social security is collected and paid out, medicare is collected and paid out. that is the part that is going to become a real challenge as the population ages. the mandatory spending, which they do not talk about, is way more than discretionary spending. host: 73%, i want to repeat that for viewers who are listening. 73% of the budget on the mandatory side. guest: most of them are funded by trust funds. make the payroll taxes, they put into a trust fund and hold it. you pay in, the fund gets filled up and they pay it off. the problem is the aging population sees more and more

people are going to start receiving benefits, social security and medicare. the fund is now being depleted. the fund is going to run out completely in 10 years. when 10 years hits, that fund will be down to zero. according to current law, they cannot pay social security benefits unless they have the money. they will have to reduce benefits for 23% unless congress decides to go ahead and fund anyway. in a sense, we have a potential crisis in about 10 years with mandatory spending, which is not part of the annual budget process. nobody talks about enough during the annual budget process. host: fitch puts in the statement, there has been limited progress in tackling medium-term challenges related to rising social security and medicare costs due to the aging population.

they put this as part of the rationale for lowering the u.s. credit rating. if the government waits until the last minute, what will happen over the next 10 years? guest: the longer they wait, the more ciccone and a measure they will have to take. if you wait 10 years to deal with this, you will have to have a significant decline in benefits. you will have to have a significant rise in either borrowing or taxes to pay for this. if you start to deal with it now , it is like any of the rest of us planning our budgets. if you plan and adjust things over time, it is easier to deal with. if you wait until the crisis, you run the risk of disruption and credit markets, the economy. if we did not pay off the full

social security benefits in 10 years, we would probably go into a recession and all these recipients would have a drop in their income and they would slow down their spending significantly. you have to plan ahead, not just wait until there is a crisis than try to deal with the crisis. host: i want to invite viewers to join in on this conversation, we are talking about the drivers of debt. one of the reasons why the credit rating downgraded the u.s. credit rating, we want to get your thoughts. republicans (202) 748-8001, democrats (202) 748-8000 an independents (202) 748-8002. you can text with your first name, city and state to (202) 748-8003. let us go to robert in texas, independent.

robert is up first, go ahead. caller: good morning to both of you. i am listening right now to this mandatory spending and social security dilemma and medicare dilemma coming forth by 2034, i believe it is. it seems to me the simple solution on this, instead of worrying about whether or not the population is aging, why don't we just lift the cap significantly on all earnings above the cap great, which today i believe is somewhere around $130,000? after 130 thousand dollars, you pay 3% on all additional income. problem solved. host: is it problem solved?

guest: unfortunately, no. that has been a solution that his been offered quite a lot. the congressional produces a publication called options to reduce the debt, where we talk about here are the things to do to reduce the debt. that is one of them, that will help some. but it is nowhere nearly big enough to solve the problem. you need way more than that. you need to do that and lots of other things, unfortunately. host: debbie in maryland, republican. caller: i just wanted to talk to you about medicare. i am on it and i have five bills in the mail -- this is not a bill. i was charged five times for

covid tests, it was $96. medicare paid that and all the way to chicago. five different addresses. i called medicare, i reported this as fraud because i never had a covid test. i called my girlfriend because i was curious, i was talking to her and she got the same thing. it was all from chicago, five different tests. it was $96 each that medicare had paid, she did not have the test. one of them was two days, one day than the following day. host: waste fraud and abuse. guest: that is an issue with lots of government programs. something like medicare, it is a really big program. the program has lots of controls, they have price control. they set prices, they do not get charged whenever hospitals want

to charge. prices are set. they should have controls on waste and fraud. that is sort of another issue. is the government doing enough to deal with the waste and fraud problem? it is not clear how big the problem is. the core problem -- we constantly overspend revenue. that is a problem that is big, but nowhere nearly as big as the overspending problem. we are overspending revenue by 30% every year. this year so far, we've borrowed $1.6 trillion. not all of that is medicare fraud. i think that is a concern. there are lots of concerns. host: in florida, democratic caller.

welcome to the conversation. caller: i hear an awful lot of talk about overspending and i agree we are overspending our revenue. i also hear that we have a spending problem, not a revenue problem. when i did some research about what the united states takes in as a revenue, as a percent of gdp, we are way out of line with other developing countries. 10% of our tax revenue comes from individual income taxes, whereas most countries are in the 35 to 45% range. if you take all of the taxes, corporate, capital gains, individual income, we are at about 26%. this is still so much less then what other developing countries taken.

we are trying to fund our government with not enough revenue. we've had this revenue shortage since the reagan era, were tax cuts were the name of the game. when bush got in, more tax cuts. when trump got in, more tax cuts. all for the wealthy. i am not saying we need to raise taxes on people that cannot afford it, but we have an income distribution problem where the rich are getting wealthier all the time and it is because of our tax system where we are not generating enough revenue. host: in the fitch statement about downgrading the u.s. government, they mention tax cuts and new spending initiatives. guest: the big surge in borrowing over the last 15 years

primarily increases spending. there are two ways to solve this problem. there have been times where a democrat member would come down to me and say you are saying debt is a real problem, we need to raise taxes. minutes later, a republican would come down into say that is a real problem, we need to lower spending. even if they recognize the problem with debt, they have different views of the solution. raise taxes or lower spending or both. if you want to solve this problem, you have to lower the borrowing level. the tax rate is below a lot of other developed countries.

but the tax revenue last year was the sick and highest level since world war ii. we borrowed $1.5 trillion with historically high tax revenue. there are a lot of options, raising revenue and lowering spending. host: after the pandemic, now that it is over, did fitch and other companies take into consideration spending should go down after? the pandemic? guest: yes, this is their talk about continuing deficits. you go through something like the pandemic, we spend date tremendous amount, trillions of dollars to work through the pandemic. once it was done, the next year, we still borrowed another $1.5 trillion.

no pandemic, no recession. we used to never borrow that much. this year, no recession. the economy is doing ok. yet we borrowed 1.6 trillion this year already so far. host: for what? guest: it is increased spending. this year, we have a drop in revenue. not from the change in tax rates , but revenues are coming in slower than they have before. there is always an issue, tax revenues will go up and down based on the economy. it is hard to know what is causing until you have to look back a year or two. i am not sure why revenues have been so slow this year. it is a little bit of a concern -- it can be an indication the economy is struggling, under a threat of recession.

sometimes revenues go down in advance of that, but i do not know that is the case. if you are going to borrow money during recession and pandemics, why not pay it back when it is done? this is a medium-term complaint that fitch has about the federal government budget. host: bruce in chicago, republican. you were up next. caller: i would like to leave a couple of thoughts with your viewers. everybody has got a solution to the credit problem or budget problem and the deficit problem. it goes back to the fact they want to tax someone else. ben franklin had this saying text the guy behind the treat. the bottom half of americans pay no federal income tax and the

tax burden is on the shoulders of upper income people. you can only text people so far, then you tax them out of existence. the other thought i have is corporate's -- everyone is going to tax corporations. corporations are not taxpayers, they are tax collectors. the consumer ends up paying it. guest: i do not want to offer too much of an opinion on this. the congressional budget office tries to not offer opinions on anything but the technical issues. if you want to raise taxes, you can raise taxes. you have to think about where you could raise them. you have a really progressive tax system, it may not be

progressive enough for you. wealthier folks in the united states pay more than a lower income folks. again, i keep pointing this out, 120 ways to live with the deficit. it actually has a number estimate, it tells you how much the different actions will reduce the deficit, so you can see if you raise the income tax rate on the wealthiest folks, how much money can you make from that? it points out how difficult it is to solve this problem with one or two things, you need a constellation of acts. what fitch is complaining about,

first recognize the problem then come up with a goal to lower borrowing over time, then have political discourse on how you're going to do that. congress is committing itself and the president to lowering borrowing overtime, then we can have a political debate on how we do that. host: here is a viewer with a post on x, how will the credit rating be affected when the adults in the room cannot stop republicans or magas from shutting down the government? how does a possible government shutdown or previous ones play into the rationale here? guest: it is part of the broken process, part of the idea congress cannot i even get an annual budget together every year. we ran into this issue with the

current administration, ran into it with the previous administration, with the administration before that. it has been years and years since we had a budget process that was followed. whoever is in power does not cooperate, they do not get cooperation, they do not have consensus on budgets. so the winner takes all and tries to force the budget through without enough votes because the minority party is not included and does not participate. host: the republican freedom caucus held a news conference where they demanded reduction in federal spending. here is what bob good of virginia had to say about the possibility of a government shutdown. [video clip] >> we should not fear a government shutdown. must've what we do appear as bad anyway, most of what we do hurts

the american people. when we do stuff to the american people promising to do things for the american people, essential operations continue. most of the american people will not even miss if the government shutdown temporarily. our speaker has the opportunity to be a transformational historical speaker that stared down the democrats and the free spenders, stared down the president and said no, we are doing with the american people elected us to do in the house is going to say no. we will pass a good republican bill out of the house and force the senate and white house to accepted, or we will not move forward. what would happen if republican stared down democrats and were the ones who refused to cave and betrayed the american people and the trust they put in us? we do not fear a government shutdown. host: no big deal? i was repeating what he had to say, no big deal is essentially

what he had to say. guest: i disagree with that. this is the partisan dysfunction for is talking about. before the congressional budget office, i headed an agency during the great recession. managing a large agency with 3000 federal employees and in october, i do not have a budget. the government shuts down, they have a resolution where they keep it going. i went most of the year with no budget for my agency. you want me to be efficient, i do not have a budget to work with. it makes it hard for the government to be efficient and effective if there is this constant uncertainty. i understand the notion they try to use it as leverage to get what they want. but it is a costly piece of leverage is all i can say.

it made it hard for me to do my job. host: keith hall is our guest this morning, he was the head of the congressional until 2019, he was the chief economist of the u.s. international trade commission before that. the 13th commissioner of the bureau of labor statistics. from 2005 to 2008, he served as the chief economist for the george w. bush administration. ron in michigan, independent. good morning. caller: good morning. i am 83 years old, obviously collecting social security so on and so forth. i would like to have you go through a scenario as to what with the social security be like

within seven to 10 years, that would put me around 90, 91. the thing we're looking at his god gives and takes away, it seems they're playing their own game. i would like to see people like you stay in office forever. you have a handle on the economy to some degree and the budget, and you perhaps have a better handle to tell these people what they are doing wrong and what they should be doing right. if you could give me an idea -- right now in my social security, i pay more in taxes on social security than i do in state retirement. by quite a bit. if you could go through that scenario, use me as an example, i would appreciate it. they should keep people like you in office instead of changing all the time. you know what you are doing. have a good weekend.

guest: if they do not do anything, there would be regular benefits paid, the trust fund will start to decline. probably credit agencies might start to make noise again that we are getting near the depletion of these trust funds with no plan in place. once the trust funds become depleted, there will be some money to spend. congress and the president would have to decide how to fund it or how to lower benefits. they resist lowering benefits to current recipients. it affects younger folks.

social security is going to go forward -- if they do not do anything, you will have benefits and it will get down to a point where congress has to do something. there is a second aspect we have not talked about. this will be a huge debt to younger generations. there is a real concern over climate change causing real changes that future generations have to struggle with severe climate change. the way it is looking right now, they will have to struggle with federal debt. in 30 years, federal debt will be at an unheard-of level. it could be 180, 200% of gdp. i will not have to pay it back, some future generation will have to deal with that. we have lower incomes because of

all this debt hanging over our heads. my kids and grandkids, they do not think social security will be here for them. they are the ones who potentially going to really get hurt by the lack of attention. host: tina is in north carolina on the democratic line. caller: good morning. money is owed back into social security. you pay out other debts you, put the money back. it is owed. we've got to pay for the immigrants that come here from different places, pay for them, put the money back into social security. that is a debt that needs to be paid back. not only that, people getting social security, getting it for

alcoholics, drugs. those people need to be tested to make sure they are not on alcohol or not on drugs. if they are, cut them off. the purpose of them getting that is to get help. they are not getting no help, they are getting free money to continue to do drugs. host: mary is in virginia, republican. good morning. mary in virginia, are you there? one last call. moving onto fred in denver, democratic caller. caller: just have a crazy question. if the government offered the wealthy to prepay their taxes ahead with the benefit of perhaps giving them a program to get a discount on taxes, would

that not stimulate investments and with that not lower the debt by prepayment of taxes? guest: i have not heard of that proposal. this is one of the issues a little bit that we always have to deal with. sometimes the actual effect of proposals are complicated. difficulty is in the details. how many people would be involved? it would take an analysis to get some idea on what the impact would be on something like that. but let me just say, the federal government is borrowing a lot of money. they are getting savings from individuals and corporations, they are saving money by buying u.s. bonds.

that competes with the private sector, private companies who also borrow money. there is something called crowding out where if the government is borrowing a lot of money, they can make it more difficult for corporations to borrow money so they can invest in factories to raise productivity. if that happens, cbo thinks that will happen going forward, we will get a dragon economic growth and we will have slower economic growth because the federal government is borrowing money and taking away from private investment. you may get lower incomes in the future. that is what cbo estimates. because of this death drag from actual borrowing. it is not trivial the government is borrowing, and has other effects that are slower and potentially more important. host: cnn is reporting that

moody is warning it could cut credit ratings of six big u.s. banks. how does that play out in the conversation we are having? any impact? guest: this is not necessarily talking about federal borrowing. we are already struggling with high interest rates. the federal reserve has raised interest rates and now we have a broader rise in interest rates in the country, we are all paying more. all of this is intertwined with federal borrowing, to be honest. it is not helping the situation at all. host: in ohio, republican. hello. caller: really great conversations going on here, maybe we can solve some real problems. good luck.

one thing that comes to mind is, how do we loan money to other countries when we are broke? if you have a family budget and say i have to cut here and there , how do we send this money? some countries are better off than we are and we are sending them money. the other thing on the debt having an effect on us, young homebuyers within one year could have a payment may be $500, buy a house and be qualified. within the year, the payment may go up to $1500. they cannot carry the loan. same with car payments. the good news about that is people then become aware of the $1.6 trillion cuts spent and we do not know what it is spent for. it got spent to get bad programs in.

we have new approaches to things that could make a big difference. if the average people, not everyone, took care of their health as best they could, we could save millions of dollars. some people would not make it as average, but on average we could make a dent in the bill if that was what we went after. if we put drones on or drones with water bottles to spot these forest fires when they are small , we could knock them out. if we catch them small, they are not growing at 100 were 300 times the size. thank you. guest: the first thing you touched on something i would like to mention. the federal government borrows money by issuing bonds. anybody can buy a bond. foreign countries by the bonds.

the accumulated debt from the federal government, that $32 trillion, about 30% is held by japan and china. it is great for them to loan us the money, it adds another element of risk going forward. now, we owe so much money and a lot of it is in japan and china. there is a real concern that those countries have leverage on the united states because they are holding so much of our debt. if china got upset and dumped u.s. debt, that could have repercussions for our financial markets because so much of it is the federal debt. it is another risk. some of the other countries barred a tremendous amount of money. all they are borrowing is domestic. they have borrowed from japanese companies, the u.s. has taken an

international approach. that is perhaps a concern going forward with the geopolitical aspect of borrowing so much from other countries. that is one of the unknowns in all of this forecasting, how will productivity go forward? productivity gains are an important part of gdp growth and income growth going forward and that is hard to predict. the federal government soaking up so much of the investment money, companies cannot invest like they would like to to keep things going forward. that might be a challenge. host: thank you for this conversation, we appreciate your time. we are going to take a break.

later on this morning in the last hour, we will turn our attention to the national parks. we will talk with kristen brengel of the national parks conservation association. before that, it is open forum. your chance to weigh in on any political or public policy debate that is on your mind this morning. the lines are on your screen, start calling in now. >> book tv celebrates 25 years of presenting nonfiction books and authors. >> book tv is live at the library of congress national book festival. host: since 2001, book tv in partnership with library of congress has provided signature, in-depth, an interrupted coverage of the national book festival, featuring hundreds of authors and guests. watch on saturday as tv brings you live, all day coverage of the national book festival.

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in new jersey, republican. you are up first. caller: the month of july was probably the hottest one we have experienced in a long time. it was global. it is not climate change. i read on a website -- i've only seen at one source, there was a massive volcanic eruption in the south pacific. that are erected steam, water vapor that spread across the globe and it took months for it to dissipate. now we are having reasonable weather, even in august. the idea we can control volcanoes, control tectonic plates is silly. host: you may be interested in this piece, along with others in the new york times. on the heels of extreme heat, wildfires battle -- battered europe.

emily in florida, independent. caller: i wanted to address the woman who called in and recommended prager u to learn about climate change, it is funded by fracking billionaires. two of their family members still sit on the board. there is a little bit of a conflict of interest when it comes to climate change. we have an incredible lack of media literacy in this country and this very biased material is being taught in desantis's florida public schools, which is not a surprise. they've made a number of videos on how slavery was not that bad. if our countries education on climate change is by oil billionaires and liars, it is over. thank you. host: as we told you and we talked about this morning, president biden on a western

tour this week. yesterday, he was in arizona announcing a new monument conserving land around the grand canyon, nearly one million acres and restricting uranium mining in the area. the president today around 3:00 p.m. will speak about the clean energy and manufacturing investments at a wind tower plant in albuquerque. that is on his agenda for today. in new hampshire, republican. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to talk about the money supply. are you there? host: we are listening. caller: i am an old timer, when i grew up we used to be able to take old money and shredded, you could buy it in bags and use it for packing material and all that kind of stuff. the money supply was constant.

old money was depleted because it was torn and all kinds of things wrong with it. they would only replace the money supply with new money. nowadays, they keep printing money. it seems what they ought to do is as they destroy old money, print new money, but only print that being replaced by money no longer in use. we keep printing money and it does not make sense. that causes a real problem with inflation, puts more dollars out there being used to buy additional supplies. it does not make sense we do not have a constant money supply. do not print new money, only print money that replaces old money. host: jeff in colorado, republican. caller: your previous guest cited how much china holds in u.s. bonds.

people are way off on how much they own. google it. 600 billion, sounds like a lot. compared to the national debt, 33 trillion, it is a very small amount. do the math. host: ohio special election is making news this morning, this from the associated press. voters reject a republican backed proposal that would have made it tougher to protect abortion rights. you can read more from the associated press and all major newspapers this morning. jamie in mississippi, republican. good morning. caller: good morning. i have two points. the first point i would like to make is about climate change. yes, the climate is changing.

it is obvious to anyone. however, if people remember history, the dinosaurs all died off from something to do with the climate and there was not a man alive on this earth to cause it. i believe man cannot control the climate. we can control our environment, keep it clean. it is silly to think we can control the climate, it is arrogant. host: what do you think we need to do to keep our environment clean? caller: i think we need to keep our rivers and streams clean of trash and debris, we definitely need to clean the earth. we could watch how much pollution we put into the air. but it is ludicrous to think

that man can control the climate on this earth and stop the weather from changing. also, i would like to point out to the guys you had on about the debt, i would like to point out to a lot of the people that call in and complain about taxes and how much people are being charged and how much they are paying. people need to realize half of the country pays no federal tax. they need to stop complaining so much about it and look and see what they are contributing. i think we need a better tax -- i think it should be changed. i think everybody should pay some tax, even if it is only $10.

host: bobby is nextn oklahoma, a democratic caller. we are in open forum. we lost bobby. toby, a republican in arizona. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. number one, do people realize that without water we have nothing? and this biden, with all of these batteries, they will put them on planes that carry passengers, et cetera, et cetera. we need to leave it alone and drill, drill, drill. biden is selling our reserve oil to china. without water the whole planet will disappear.

thank you. host: before you go, in the newspapers this morning it says what the president did yesterday in your state, declaring nearly one million acres as national monument, that that is part of the overall effort to preserve 30% of the land and water by a certain year. do you agree with that effort? caller: um, in a way, but look at the saudis sucking our water and growing hay that they bail -- bale. they put it on ships to go back to their country and feed their animals because of their shortage of water. i'm tired of trying to take care of the whole world. we cannot even take care of our country and what goes on here.

host: here is the headline from cbs news. arizona re-examining deals to lisa landed to saudi owned farms. from cbs evening news, cbs. com to read more. jude is a democratic caller in photo. caller: good morning -- in florida. caller: good morning. we realize there is climate change. we are talking about a serious destructive climate change that has changed in the last 20 or 30 years. and it is only getting worse. republicans, you have to drag them -- you have to literally drag them to have any kind of discussion about it. they need to wise up. this is getting ridiculous. host: the guardian reporting that fulton county prosecutors

in georgia are planning to seek 2020 election charges next week. the district attorney has indicated that they were sufficiently prepared to go to trial tomorrow. the fulton county district attorney investigating donald trump's efforts to overturn the election results expected to present evidence and asking a grand jury to return indictments as early as next tuesday. yesterday, in a discussion with the washington post, former michigan republican congressman fred upton reacted to former president trump's latest federal indictment, the recent one, not this georgia one, and explained why he voted to impeach president trump when he was a member of congress. [video clip] >> donald trump was indicted for a third time, this time on charges he tried to reverse the results of the election.

you said the indictment was "totally justified," leaning euro vote to impeach mr. trump furthers actions. why do you feel vindicated? >> we saw it firsthand. those who were there and that capitol that day, talking to the officers afterwards. casting the vote, when the house came back. but the bottom line was he really did try to not allow the counting of the electoral votes on january 6. we can see the conspiracy charges. every week, i believe that was directed by somebody in his administration. i read the indictment this last week that came out. i do not know how fast the trial will proceed, but absolutely everyone of us who cast that

vote, all 10 of us, saw the same thing. you have to remember that right after january 6, the president said in his own words, i did everything totally appropriate. i do not know if you would say the same thing today. but that was one of the bottom lines why to impeach him back then. host: former michigan congressman in a conversation with the washington post. the former president yesterday brought up his mounting legal issues, calling that interference in the election a ridiculous case. [video clip] >> how come my corrupt political opponent put me on trial during an election campaign that i am winning by a lot? forcing me to spend time and money away from the campaign trail in ordered a fight bogus, made up accusations -- that's

what they are doing. i am sorry, i will not be able to go to iowa, new hampshire, because i am in a courtroom on bull because his attorney general charged me with something. it is terrible. [applause] host: president trump in new hampshire yesterday. we are in open forum. any political issue on your mind. joshua in south carolina, a republican. caller: good morning. um, climate change -- um. if we go back in the past, we see that the leftists told us to put all that stuff in the atmosphere to warm the earth because we are heading into and ice age. -- an ice age.

now it is global warming and everything has to do with 12 years. they have been saying that for 24 years now. so, um -- everything runs in a cycle. you have your solar maximum, solar minimum, that you have you major solar minimum. we are about to hit that in late 2030 to 2053, which will cool off the earth. about 60% reduction of sun. and 70% by 2035 to 2050. host: ok, joshua in south carolina. dennis in maryland, he republican. -- a republican. caller: how are you doing today? good to listen to the different views this country put out.

i'm trying to say thank for what you do. the global warming thing, the lady that called before said nobody can control the weather. i think she better reconsider that thought because i guarantee the air force or nasa has already discovered how to control the weather. and that is all about climate change. global warming's scare tactics for something down the road ultimately come into the world, that is the one world order. bill gates is part of that. reduced population is what they want. they will do it at any cost. that is exactly what they want. host: ok, dennis in maryland. in washington today, two discussions about the news industry at 12:00 p.m. eastern. discussing the trustworthiness of news. former executives lead the discussion on creating new

guidelines for fair and accurate journalism in a diverse news environment. we will cover that at 12:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, on our free mobile video app, or online at c-span.org. at 4:00 p.m., covering a discussion on media literacy. journalists discuss public trust in media, the literacy aspect of it at 4:00 p.m. on c-span, c-span now, or on c-span.org. logan in texas, an independent. caller: hey. host: good morning. caller: i want to speak on behalf of donald trump and the recent indictments. what we are repeatedly seeing in this country is this constant move on behalf of politicians in washington that the acts of

january 6 were completely dependent on one individual, donald trump. i feel like that whole move refuses to realize the reality of the trump movement, harnessing an internal anger in the american psyche. i feel like by pushing donald trump as the true leader of the movement, it removes the material element that donald trump is the reason the movement exists. if we do not look at this in a policy way, we will consistently see another donald trump or hear more people object climate change or discuss bill gates being part of the new world order, such as we just saw from the last caller. consistently come as we have seen all of this, and i do not know what the answer is, but we need to have a discussion on how to fix the current economic issues and the failure is in the american literacy programs. host: ok. christine, virginia beach. a democratic caller.

caller: first, i love c-span, but i have to say the two things that are most important right now, democrats need devote like their life depends on it. everywhere in this country, the blue states need to come out in droves. i'm listening to the people calling, i have been listening for years, and it is scary what the amount of a literacy, science illiteracy, civic illiteracy, conspiracy theories coming out of people. it's stunning. just how far the country is falling. but wo, once -- two, once that happens of the democrats need to have control, fix the education system in this country, the public-school education system, and we need to work again as hard as it will be to get money out of politics, because you have got people taking over that have no clue.

these people do not know anything. it is like some of them are educated, they have gone to college, but they are subject specific educated. they are not well-rounded. they do not step outside of their communities to get to know anybody else. they are afraid of everything. and they do not know anything. that is the problem. i appreciate your time. host: some of you may be interested in the new york times reporting previously secret memo laid out strategy very trump to overturn biden's win. a lawyer allied with president trump laid out using false electors to subvert the election in a previously unknown internal memo that prosecutors are portraying as a crucial link in how they campaign's efforts you evolved into a criminal conspiracy. the existence of this december 6, 2020 memo came to light last

week in the indictment of mr. trump, though the details remain unclear. but a copy obtained by the new york times shows for the first time the lawyer acknowledged from the start he was proposing a controversial strategy that "the supreme court would likely reject." but even if the plan did not pass legal muster at the highest level, the lawyer argued it would achieve two goals, focusing attention on voter fraud and more time to win litigation that would deprive biden of electoral votes and or add to donald trump's column. the memo had been a missing piece of the public record of how mr. trump's allies developed a strategy to overturn mr. biden's victory. in mid december the false trump electors could go through the motions of voting and if they have the authority to do so.

then on january 6, vice president mike pence could unilaterally confiscate the votes rather than the official certified ones for joseph biden. louis in new jersey, we are in an open forum. go ahead. caller: once again we have an american democrat saying everybody else is stupid and they are so smart. fix the school systems? we've had 60 years to fix the school systems. the reason why we have russia, china, even the saudis backing away from us is because every leader in the world knows that biden took money. democrats, i guess it is just another conspiracy theory. democrats look the other way to what is going on. host: joe in north carolina come a democratic caller. caller: good morning. i do not understand most of the

people in this country. the racism has taken over their common sense. it's shattered their common sense. it's gotten so bad now that if you were to talk about god, they know god and love god, but they do not understand nothing god says. they do not read the scripture. they constantly come at you about biden's son, biden's son. he is not part of the government. he didn't run for no office, you know? trump ran for office under lies. and all these racists jumped on. he played them like you play a chump. that is what he is doing. and he has collected money from these chumps. that is what they are, trump

chumps. host: matthew in dearborn, michigan. caller: how are you doing? i would like to talk about the climate thing. i want to give a little chemistry lesson here.s save the atmosphere, because what it is is co2 is a super potent chemical and people need to understand chemistry. say the atmosphere is a glass of water. for years, the atmosphere was the same. the glass of water stayed the same. you put in a little salt, you change the chemistry. sugar, you change the chemistry. say you put in something poisonous, that changes the chemistry. then you would not drink that glass of water. that is how i can explain the chemistry thing.is a basic thing. it is all about the chemistry in the atmosphere. people talk about --.

that changes the atmosphere. but we are changing the atmosphere from burning fuel. that is all i am going to say. host: nick in minnesota, an independent. caller: good morning. what i want to know is donald trump was in office for four years and was making america great. is he halfway there, halfway when he left office? what is the tool we are using to know when america is completely great again? is there a website i can go to? is there a barometer? please explain to me how you know when it is complete. have a nice day. host: has the former president explained his metrics? caller: i have not seen it. host: nick there. when we come back, kristen brengel of the national parks conservation association will discuss the state of america's

national parks. join us for that conversation, next. ♪ ♪ announcer: since 1979, in partnership with the cable industry, c-span has provided coverage of the halls of congress, from the house and senate, to congressional hearings, party briefings and committee meetings. c-span gives you a front row seat to how the issues are decided, with no commentary, no interruptions, and completely unfiltered. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. ♪ announcer: porter your copy of

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again brings you all day coverage of the national book festival with authors and guests like peteuttigieg, and former nfl player rk rundle, author of "the yards between us." see the complete schedule online at booktv.org. the library of congress's national book festival on saturday beginning at 9:00 a.m. eastern on c-span2. ♪ announcer: "washington journal" continues. host: we want to welcome kristen brengel, the senior vice president of government affairs for the national parks conservation association come here to talk about the state of america's national parks. there has been a surge of people who want to visit these national parks. what is -- parks. what is happening, what do the

numbers look like? guest: for the past few years we have seen a surge, about 330 million people going to see our national parks and enjoy them. they see beautiful national places, historic sites. we are excited that the public enjoys these places. host: the number was three hundred 12 million in 2022. 297 million in 2021. 2020, 200 37 million. in 2019, it was even higher at 327 million. so these are popular. guest: very popular. during covid, the numbers certainly went down, less people visiting. but right before covid, that was the height of popularity for our parks. host: so what is your role in the national parks? guest: we are the largest

national park advocacy organization in the country and we are sort of the outside advocates that ensure that somebody is watching what is going on with the parks and we try to come up with solutions with the administration. his overcrowding a problem right now and what is the solution? guest: it is in some parks. popular parks that are on everybody's bucket list. they are seen visitors coming with an popular times of the year. that is why they have visitor management plans. many of them are going through that process now to figure out how to move people around the parks in an efficient way so you can maintain a pleasant experience. you do not want to be any parking lot for three hours.

moving people around the parks has become sort of a key piece of making sure that people truly enjoy their visit while they are there. host: is the national park service capable of having that kind of plan? guest: yes. it depends on the kind of park. some have a road system that allows you to go to different trailheads and visit the different arches in the park. yellowstone, though, has loops. people come in different entrances. each park requires its own solution. some parks like zion have a shuttle bus system. they need to design a visitor use plan that matches the park you are visiting to make sure that you can move people around, in and out. and one of the tactics the park service is employing is time to entry, which i think -- timed

entry, which i think that people are used to. you go online, you register, you get a ticket with a time on it to say that you are going into arches at 2:00 p.m. this afternoon, and it enables you to visit other great things there, then get in the line to get into the park at the entrance station at 2:00 p.m. these are the smart ways to move people around parks, and guarantee you and your family can get in. what was happening were people were stuck in an endless line and they did not know if they would even make it into the park, so this provides certainty. host: can you do it same day or do you need to reserve a time slot in advance? guest: they tried to do it so you can get -- try to do it so you can get it months in advance, but they do allow room

for people who did not know about the reservation system. some of the parks, like a glacier, where you need a timed entry to go to sun road, they are now telling people if you did not get your ticket, you can come very early in the morning to scoot past of the system. they are trying to be -- they are trying to make easy for people. they do not want anybody to feel shut out of the parks. it's going to be an iterative process. they will try to perfect as time goes on. as they see patterns. host: this is a timely conversation as it is summer and many people want to visit the parks. president biden was in the grand canyon yesterday. we want to hear from you about the state of our national parks. this is how we divided the lines. if you live in the eastern or central part of the country, call 202-748-8000. mountain pacific, 202-748-8001.

if you have visited a national park recently, we have a line for you. 202-748-8002. kristen brengel, do the national parks have the stats they need to handle the visitors they are seeing? guest: the park service is actually at a lower point in terms of staffing than they have been, about at 20,000. they used to be at 22,000 about 10 years ago. this is critical for the management of our national parks, and for the visitor experience. people love to see a park ranger. they want to have an interaction and know which trails to hike on, what activities to do, they want to get their children in a junior ranger program. that cannot happen without staffing. not every park has the expertise

they need in order to properly staff. we are seeing sharp declines in cultural resource expertise in the parks. also, issues wit housing haveh lent themselves to staff not able to be in certain parks because there is not enough housing. we need congress to invest in park staffing. they did in last year's appropriations bill. this year, we are seeing flat funding on the senate side, a 9% increase on the house side. that will not do the parks good, it will not be great for families. we want to make sure that they are staffed so people can have great experiences. host: according to the numbers, this is what the funding has looked like in recent years. 2021, three $1 billion. it has gone -- $3.1 billion. it has gone up incrementally.

do you know the breakdown, what does most of the money go towards? guest: for park operations, staffing, management of the parks. the other money goes towards construction and programs in parks that protect certain resources. there is also a division between natural resource protection and cultural resource protection, but the lion's share goes towards staffing, a critical piece of funding. host: what sort of infrastructure projects, construction projects, are going on at the national parks? guest: in 2020, a law was signed which injected about $6.65 billion into the national parks specifically for maintenance, deferred maintenance or maintenance that had not been taken care of in a long time. it has been funded for the last three years to the tune of about

$4 billion. it means that parks are getting fixed. large projects, like at yellowstone. or smaller projects like trails on battlefields. they are getting fixed right now which is a dream, because many of the maintenance for these areas has lapsed over the last 50 years, and we are finally getting towards protecting these places. host: it was signed into law during the trombetta ministry should? -- trump administration? guest: yes. it was done in bipartisan fashion. it was probably one of the most bipartisan bills of that congress, i think in the top five. this is something that had huge support and was signed into law by president trump, and has been doing so much good for national parks, and will continue to do great work. host: i want viewers to listen to the house natural resources subcommittee, the oversight

investigation -- the subcommittee chair had a hearing recently. i want you to react, too..he described how he sees the national parks system. >> critical infrastructure, even climate change, the situation seems to be getting worse for the visitor and those in the parks. parks have been suffering from mismanagement, and as usual are people end up paying for it. september of 2022, it had over $1.2 billion in deferred maintenance. this is unacceptable. and it damages the visitor experience and restricts access to american national parks, reducing the deferred maintenance backlog should be our utmost priority. the record shows this is not the case.

-- host: deferred maintenance and a backlog, how did this happen? guest: it happens over time. 1872, it was designated and still has old roads, stagecoach roads and you have campgrounds in zion national park were comfort stations were built in 1936. this infrastructure, just like anything in this country, over time, has worn down and passed its lifecycle. over time, with not enough investment from congress, the facilities, roads and bridges got worse. that is why the great american outdoors act was a significant lot of pass because it will update pretty old infrastructure. host: the cost is estimated at 38 million, and that is for park service, land

management and fish and wildlife service. so is it enough money for the parks? guest: no, it is not. thank you for asking. it only covers about $9 billion worth of maintenance and includes forest service, as well. we knew when the law passed and we advocated for it that it was not enough money but it was a good start. that is where a lot of great ideas start you figure out how much money is passed into law, and that 9 billion will go into backlogs of the agencies and you're asking congress now to reauthorize legislation. i think the park service is doing a great job of implementation to think they have had this money for three years and they are already getting parks fixed is impressive. we would like to continue this great work they are doing and

get them more money to do it. host: robert in south carolina, good morning. caller: good morning, ladies. this is robert from columbia, south carolina. i am trying to figure out why we cannot attack fires soon enough, so they burn everything, and this is probably over your head, but i was wondering if the lady could explain or recommend to the higher-ups and if she has the power to make it happen, which i doubt she does, but if we can get enough interest on the quickstart program to put

out fires and we need to have a fire agency for parts of the country because the parks may be big enough and it may be convenient for the airplanes or jets or whatever they use for the fires, so how many states have public parks or national parks -- host: ok, robert, we will get an answer. guest: thank you. wildfires have become more intense than ever before because of climate change. agencies have been trying to address them as quickly as we can. sometimes you can let them burn to manage the fires to stop them. other times you need to take on different tactics. some is preventative. let me give you an example of

giant sequoia national park and yosemite national park where we have beautiful trees, giant sequoia's that we love and we would like to make sure they are protected and can survive into the next few decades and so forth. the sequoias have become susceptible to burning. they used to not be but because of how the temperatures have risen, wildfires are getting closer to them. there are tactics like prescribed burns getting rid of the brush to prevent fires from becoming as dangerous and problematic as they have been. we have been working with the congress to try to address this and make sure the sequoias are well protected. of course, it requires money. they need to hire the firefighters in order to do the preventative work to make sure we are protecting these trees. i will give you another example in california, which we watched

the last few weeks, the york fire that broke out in mohave national preserve because of invasive species in the park. the park started on a private in holding. we do not know why yet. -- host: the fire you mean. guest: yes, the fire. the fire started on private property and migrated to the joshua trees quickly and the preserve because of an invasive grass species, because of several invasive grass species. it is critical the park service be able to get on the ground and get rid of invasive species that were put there for decorative purposes, believe it or not, but they are doing so much damage to the native species and helping feed these fires that can kill our beloved joshua trees we love so much. host: in griffith, indiana, arianne.

caller: hello, thank you for taking my call. i called in about a month ago and there was another guest talking about the national park system. i commented regarding on the lack of access to parks, specifically financial access and how it affects low income communities and our thinking of gary indiana with regard to the indiana national park, and it used to be the lakeshore. obviously, when it became a park, it had more visitors but it also meant more fees. one day the park is free, and now there is a significant barrier that was not there before. is there a plan to expand access to the park to communities, especially that are closest to it? i feel like it was totally for

not, and people i worked with would likely not be able to afford the same fee charged now. thank you for your time. guest: thank you for your comment in question. we absolutely would like to advocate for people getting into parks and having access to parks. fees are a part of the structure when the park structure has a certain amount of amenities and a desire for people to come to the parks but it is a public process and it is open to the public to comment on. i think that is an avenue for folks to go down if the fees are too high in a park or you simply do not want one because the area is not conducive financially. but i would say we can work towards a comment period toward engaging the park superintendent and figuring out if the fees are a barrier for people to get in,

how we eliminate them or reduce them. host: eric in south bend, indiana, good morning. you are next. caller: yeah, parks are very underused in my area. you go around and hardly see anybody. i am going to talk about the parks in the cities. host: hold on one second. mute your television and repeat what you said. what is underutilized? caller: the parks and the city of south bend. that is the ones that i know. i am trying to mute it. i am sorry. host: i am going to move on. carmen in florida. caller: yes. i am a true believer that there is climate change, but it is totally by means of the government. in other words, if we would like

to affect climate change, we really need to stop camp trails that are affecting our sky and whether, and the situations affecting the globe, which affect things like hurricanes or earthquakes and we need to stop the chopping down of trees and the changing of our agricultural land to solar farms. host: carmen on climate change. in "the washington post," president biden yesterday, in addition to announcing the monument in the grand canyon area, 44 million in federal funding that will be used to strengthen climate resilience in the national park system. the money will go toward projects across 39 states, as well as puerto rico and the u.s. virgin islands.

what will this be used for? guest: we were thrilled when the inflation reduction act passed and it included about $500 billion for the bureau of land management to do restoration projects, climate related restoration projects. we were thrilled when we heard it finally came out yesterday. the money will go towards projects to go after invasive species like i was talking about with the joshua trees in southern california. it will go toward the ability should and the northern rockies, and the caller was from florida, are coral reefs in florida are warming up and we are losing them. the waters are too warm for them right now, and there are several projects going on right now to restore the coral reefs, so there are some areas that are being affected by climate change that can be restored, and we can

get those ecosystems into a better place. so, this money will go towards some of those efforts within so many national parks. host: nelson in pembroke pines, florida. caller: good morning. can you hear me ok? host: yes, good morning. caller: good morning. i am 74 years old and every single president that i can remember has a designated lands in various states all over the country as national monuments, national parks, etc. to the degree that now the federal government, is my understanding, is the biggest owner of land in the united states. it seems to me that it would be best if the federal government turned over some of these parks and recreational areas to the states so we can concentrate

more on those national parks that have more popularity like yellowstone, everglades, some of the biggest parks in the country rather than continuing to grab more land, designate them as protected areas, and then not have the money to fund them. it is interesting that the last guest on your show was talking about the increasing federal debt. you are here asking for federal parks, which, i agree, is needed, but there seems to be a breaking point here. anyway, your thoughts on that and thank you for listening. guest: thank you so much. let me give you a statistic that

might low your mind. the national park service that takes care of 425 national park units that we live across the country makes up one 20th of 1% of the entire federal budget. that is so small compared to the benefits that they bring to the american public. can you imagine not rejecting the grand canyon, yellowstone -- not protecting the grand canyon, yellowstone, the everglades? we do it at such a small amount, and the benefit economically to the country is $40 billion. you get an amazing return for your investment on parks, and we believe it is one area that congress should not compromise on. it is an investment. americans love our national parks. they talk about our history. they are nature, they are where we can breathe.

transferring them to estate that may also have budget issues will not solve the funding problem either but we believe the federal government can do better in terms of making investments into the parks and it is well worth it. host: $40 billion return, is that annual? guest: annual. host: what is that from? guest: from people spending money to fly to parks, for people spending money on hotels, gas, meals, restaurants. all of that encompasses the benefit that parks bring to the gdp. host: you are giving the number 425 units of national parks, including monuments, battlefields, military and historic parks, lake shores, seashores, creation of areas, entrails, and the national park service's manages more than 85 million acres in all 50 states, district of columbia, and u.s. territories. there are 20,000 employees and

297,000 volunteers. that was in 2019. how crucial are these volunteers to the system? guest: they are wonderful. one of the other callers was an americorps volunteer. they are so important, keep things running and they help park service and raise money for the parks and friends groups, so volunteers do interpretations sometimes. sometimes they are teachers who are off for the summer who volunteer their time to the park. they are wonderful. they do maintenance projects that the park service can move on to a bigger project in order to do. we love our volunteers on the national parks. they do not substitute for staff though, so that is important. they are essential, and we love our volunteers in our parks but they cannot make up for what the park service staff do. host: diane new jersey. it is sad, when you go to the

parks now, nobody has respect for the land and beauty. lots of garbage there. rest areas are disgusting. guest: i am sorry you had that experience and a national park. this has become an issue since covid. we have seen that there is more litter. this goes back to being able to staff parks well and the fact that some cases, staff have collateral duties, where your job may be to interpret for visitors, but you are cleaning the bathrooms and getting the trash in the parks, too. that is why we need to advocate for congress to better fund and staff parks because the 9% decrease in funding that the house still has, we need to fight against that to make sure it does not happen. host: do they find people for throwing trash in the national parks -- fine people for throwing trash in the national parks? guest: i don't know if they fine you, but typically, they will

try to educate you on how that damages resources. park rangers try to make sure visitors understand the consequences of their actions, so i am not sure if they really walk around too much with tickets. host: pam in lafayette, indiana. your turn. caller: good morning. how are you all? so nice to speak to you today. i had an idea with the controversial slogan "make america great again." the funds that are being sent to foreign countries, ukraine, etc., could be used in our own country, in our beautiful national parks, to fund everything that your guest is advocating for. thank you. host: you will go to charlene in california. caller: how are you ladies? guest: good morning. host: good morning. caller: i am calling to say, we

are entitled trespassing americans and we should have more respect for national parks. owe the native americans we did not kill off respect, and i think it is really bad that we disrespect them within the national parks, try to develop, dirty up, do all the things, you know? how can god bless us? and we call ourselves christians in this country? we are the most entitled, destructive people who walked this earth. we are. and we need to back off. you know? we need to back off. host: all right, charlene. the president yesterday setting aside with the national monument one million acres nearly, in part was for tribal nations, they, along with environmentalists, had been pushing for this, why? guest: the grand canyon, as we know it today, has been expanded so many times since the early 1900s. this area has been sought after

for mining for 100 years. in this case, uranium is the thing that mining companies have been pursuing in the area, and it has done an enormous amount of damage to the grand canyon and the area around the grand canyon already. this designation is so significant. 11 tribes engaged in the process with the white house in order to get more protections for the lands just outside of grand canyon national parks, and there are three areas that are not continuous with each other that will add more protection to the watershed, which is critically important to the tribes. the other wonderful part of the national monument is that so many artifacts, clift rollings, other places that tribes hold sacred, are going to be better protected today thanks to the monument designation than they were before. a not only has so much sacred significance but we will better protect the watershed.

host: we will go to washington state. judy, good morning. caller: good morning, greta. good morning ,kristen i have been. a long-term member of ncta. i have also volunteered quite a bit at mount rainier national park. i was just there yesterday. one of my problems with the new access to the park is that it does it by internet. people in our county do not have access to internet. there is no internet in parts of our county. they have to go to library and that excludes a lot of people who do not have computer access. there was no way to get information to a lot of people, one, because of computer access. two, because there are no newspapers. we have a small newspaper in our town, but there is genuinely no

way to get there. and the people in our town that are poor, they don't take the newspaper so there is no way to get information, access on the computer, and older people, and i happen to be one, is that i am not good at computers. even though i volunteer with the park service, i tend to still use the telephone. so older people do not have that. host: we will take your point, judy. guest: they are great points. we need to make sure that everybody can get into the parks. my understanding is that mount rainier is doing a visitor plan right now. this is a time where folks like you who volunteer the park who are familiar with the park service can help get these comments directly to the park service and let them know that there are some difficulties that folks have getting on the

internet and using the system online, so i would urge you and neighbors to talk to the park service and make sure they are aware of the limitations in the community and make an accommodation as they look into the visitor use plan. host: in utah, hi, lynn. caller: appreciate this program. i think your guest is so well-informed and presenting very important information, and i think if i was the president, our national park budget would be tripled. i think they are the most important thing this country has, and the benefits are beyond our imaginations. one thing i would say needs improvement, and i have no suggestion as to how is to get people to stop chasing wild animals. there was a story i saw on parents standing, watching their nine-year-old chase of buffalo. of course, the buffalo reacted

by chasing her. a very dangerous situation. i do not know, i guess you cannot have iq tests for people get into the parks, but i don't know what the answer is. i just feel like people are not as smart as they used to be or they have lost touch with nature to the point where they do not use common sense anymore or something. host: got it. guest: wildlife are wild, and people should be staying away from them. the park service has all of these techniques they try to talk to visitors about an order to know if you are getting too close to the animals. if the animal is not completely surrounded by your thumb, then you are too close to the animal. if you see a buffalo, which can be very aggressive, or a bear, you should keep your distance, especially if they are with

their babies, loose. these are animals we would like to see thrive in these areas but will not be able to if folks are getting too close to them and they interact with people too much. thank you for bringing it up. it is a problem and always has been in the national parks, and we would like to preserve these areas so we can enjoy wildlife watching, one of the most popular activities in the national park. we have to keep the animals safe by keeping our distance. host: pat, oklahoma, good morning. caller: yes, thank you for this program. we are talking about the national parks and their funding. i do not know if anybody realizes we have many beautiful parks all across the united states, not only national. we have state parks, where i feel that they are letting people down is the fact that many of them are rv campsites

and everything that is available for people, but most of these have not been upgraded in 50 years. at this point, at least 75% to 80% our services. when you have a 30 amp service and you are trying to run a big motorcoach off of it, guess what? that does not work. the utilities, the electricity, and i am going to say that trees and stuff have been neglected. i think the four street service needs to figure out something so the bugs and animals are not destroying our trees because we are losing those. host: i will have the guest jumping. guest: let me give you some good news, the great american outdoor zach, the bill we were talking

about earlier, part of the money for that bill and from that bill is going toward improving campsites within the national cap service. there is a large one in yosemite that is getting fixed into all mementos that has about over 300 specific sites, bathrooms, all of that stuff is getting upgraded, the most popular entrance to the south, there is a fairly large campground also getting upgraded and fixed. you are right, some of the infrastructure in the campsites are more than 50 years old and need to be repaired. congress can continue to provide funding under the great american outdoor zach past 2025, we can get more campsites fixed. one thing i have been impressed with in terms of the bill and funding is that the u.s. forest service, which also has a lot of great campsites spread out throughout the u.s., they are also very focused on upgrading

campsites and making sure they are ada accessible, have better bathrooms, and so forth. please call your member of congress and tell them we need to reauthorize the great american outdoor zach and let's keep getting these places -- outdoors act and keep adding these places fixed. host: ellen in new hampshire. caller: i just wanted to comment about the joshua trees. i grew up in mohave and it seems like every time i turn on the tv, there is a commercial of some vehicle driving through the joshua trees and ripping around. those things are fragile. their roots go straight down. if the soil gets to disturbed and stuff, they fall over and people treat the desert like it is disposable. like it is a racetrack.

guest: joshua trees are so emblematic of the mojave desert and how desperately we would like to protect these places. we are worried about them, too. we are worried about them because of climate change, recreation. we have to take care of them as a country, as a visitor. anybody who goes out there, i really appreciate your comment because a park ranger cannot be out in the park 100% of the time, so we all need to do a good job of respecting these places. host: congress heard from the national park service director. what did he tell them? or what issues came up? guest: with the park service director? host: what are the major issues in the park in general they are facing? guest: some of them have been addressed. overcrowding, climate issues. we are seeing the effects of

flooding. yellowstone is a great example. we were not anticipating a massive flood in yellowstone last year, and an entire road got washed out. that is the northern access road for visitors to go through montana into the park. we cannot get ahead of some of these tragic events that are happening because climate change is coming at us right now. hurricanes, storm surges. these are all happening in parks. there are some things we can do to get ahead of this, and the reflation -- inflation reduction act will help with those but there are consequences to climate change. the park service needs to do vulnerability studies to figure out what areas of the park are most vulnerable to flooding and storm surges and so forth and figure out, is there a way to get ahead of it, infrastructure rise, and put better infrastructure in place to address some of these impacts that are coming at us?

host: four viewers, you can learn more abo national parks if you go to the national park conservation association's website, npca.org. you can follow them @npca. thank you for the conversation this morning, kristen brengel, we appreciate it. that is it for today's "washington journal." thank you for participating. we will be back tomorrow morning, 7:00 a.m. eastern, enjoy your morning. ♪ >> a healthy democracy is

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