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to washington anytime, anywhere. ♪ >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these television companies and more, including charter communications. >> charter is proud to be recognized as one of the best internet providers and we are just getting started building 100,000 miles of new infrastructure to reach those who need it most. >> charter communications supports c-span as a public service, along with these other television providers. giving you a front row seat to mocracy. " continues. host: joining us this morning is jack ewing, a business reporter for the new york times, covering the auto industry. thank you very much for being with us. i want to start with president biden and talking about the green job creation, especially

for the auto industry and get your thoughts on the others. >> when i say climate means jobs i mean good paying union jobs. [applause] >> a lot of clean energy products that pay good wages and use made in america parts and products. not violating any international trade agreements. it's all in the law. we are re-incentivizing companies to build products in the same committees that power our nation with fossil fuels. whether it's scranton, pennsylvania or west virginia, where ever, they have supplied the fossil fuels we need for generations. for example, next-generation batteries are being made in an old steel mill in west virginia. solar panels are going to a

close coal plant in new mexico. these incentives make clean energy jobs good paying union jobs and ensure the benefits of clean energy economy, reaching committees left behind. they are left behind when they left behind, they lost their pride and their sense of who they were they lost what was going on. to reach communities too often is the focus. we have already seen it happen, car plants building solar farms, ironworkers and operating engineers building wind projects electricians installing solar panels. an electric vehicle charges. 500,000 of those suckers. that's gonna mean a lot and it's a big deal. a clean energy economy should also be a win-win for auto companies and union workers. the big three automakers and companies with the uaw negotiated a new agreement and i'm asking them to work together to forge this agreement and together we can make this transition to a clean energy future fair and just.

that means ensuring that all the jobs continue to be good jobs that can support a family. [applause] host: jack ewing, are the auto jobs good jobs and what is the status of the industry transitioning to electric vehicles? guest: i think the big risk for electric vehicles from an economic point of view is that you need fewer parts electric vehicles and you need different parts come you don't need mufflers anymore, you need batteries. that will mean some companies will either have to adjust, go out of business that will have an effect on communities. it's really a question of where there are going to be new jobs, and the electric vehicle industry, is not clear yet whether there will be as many jobs there are now in the auto industry. i think part of the bill, part of the aim of the inflation reduction act is to ensure that happens.

i wouldn't say it's a done deal. host: he mentioned the big three there. could the landscape of where jobs are currently located for the auto industry changed? guest: it already is changing. there is a lot of new investment in electric vehicle manufacturing and battery manufacturing. it's going to southern states where there is already some auto industry but is going to be a lot more and there is some going to the traditional auto making states like michigan and ohio. it's not so much going to the south so there is a geographical shift taking place. it's not clear that all the jobs that are lost in some of those states will be replaced by new clean energy jobs. host: is labor following the job? guest: that remains to be seen. people don't like to move but they will if they have two. you have seen that in the past

when a car factory closes and people will often drive long distances to somewhere else. of course, people don't like that and it has an effect upon the community beyond just the people who work in the factory. they support lots of other jobs and there are many examples where a car factory closed and had a really devastating effect on the community. there is going to be some of that disruption. overall, it will be positive but there is going to be a lot of disruption. host: a recent headline in the new york times on a story you wrote you probably could have written that headline about our first hour this morning on the "washington journal." what is the hesitation or concern and what are consumers saying? guest: the first wave of people that bought electric cars tended

to be very conscious of the environment and they were willing to pay more for a car they perceived as being clean. now we are getting into mainstream buyers and they are much more looking at it in terms of the traditional things they look at in a car, the price, the practicality, what does it mean for me from an economic point of view. i was listening to some of the commentary earlier and i think one thing that's true in parts of the country is that they believe there's climate change taking place but they don't believe it's man-made and they don't believe there's much we can do about it. if you want them to buy an electric car, you have to make other arguments. host: economic ones, and is the inflation reduction act helping with that? guest: absolutely, there is big tax credits for cars that qualify, you can get up to $7,500 back on the purchase price of electric cars in many states like california and

vermont. it will give you more money on top of that. also, the price of electric cars is coming down because of subsidies in the act that go directly to carmakers. they are producing batteries in the united states so there is a lot in the bill that's pushing down the ultimate cost for electric vehicles which is cheaper to maintain and cheaper to fuel than a gasoline car in the first place. host: you are the president talk about electric vehicles charging stations. give us an idea if you can of all of the auto provisions in the inflation reduction act from the builder to the consumer. guest: there is a lot of money in the ira to make chargers and in the infrastructure act from a year earlier there was also money for states to build chargers along major core doors.

there is money for people who own apartment buildings to put charges in the parking lots, there is a number of provisions that encourage charging and i have to say that a lot of that is coming anyways from the private sector and the automakers who recognize that if they want to settle electric cars, they have to improve the charging network so there is a number of initiatives going on to do that independently of the inflation reduction act. host: you also wrote a story -- tell us about this. guest: there is also a lot of money available from the department of energy to put up these battery factories to do battery research, to put components that the overall aim is to create an electric car supply chain in the united states with american workers and

i think it -- from what we've seen so far, they've been pretty successful at doing that. the important point is that right now, most batteries in most components are coming from china. there is sort of a geopolitical strategic issue here. the administration does not want our car industry to be dependent on china and raw materials or components coming from china. that's deftly one of the big aims of the iras to create a supply chain that is independent from china. host: there is a separate story -- guest: yes, that's yet another issue with some provinces of china where there is allegedly factories that use forced labor. i'm not aware of any car factory specifically for western car factories that are using forced labor but there may be

components of outliers along the supply chain that are using forced labor. that's at least the allegation. that's obviously a concern as well. host: we are talking about the inflation reduction act in the u.s. auto industry. republicans, (202) 748-8001, democrats, (202) 748-8000 an independents (202) 748-8002. if you own electric vehicle, your line this morning is (202) 748-8003. the inflation reduction act in electric vehicles is our conversation with jack ewing. those who have purchased an electric vehicle recently or thinking about it and maybe interested in this headline -- guest: explain. the text credits that are part of the ira can -- to qualify,

the car has to have a certain percentage of its components in a certain percentage of thrown materials coming from the united states or raw materials from trade allies of the united states which includes mexico. the carmakers have to prove that the car they are selling meets these quotas and the quota has become more strict over time. they get stricter with each passing year but when they first passed the law, they said nobody will qualify. as it turned out, the car company has a good selection of electric cars that get the full credit or at least some of the credit. some brands are completely frozen out such as kia and hyundai from korea because they are not making electric cars in the united states yet. those cars are automatically $7,500 more expensive than

operable american made car and the foreign carmakers aren't happy about that. host: does the dealer had to disclose this? how would the consumer know this? just not by a foreign-made car? guest: you can google it and there is a list on the irs website of which cars qualify. maybe the doe website but if you google that, there is a list of which cars qualify. the other thing i should mention is if you lease a car, any car can qualify because it's a quirk in the way the law was written that the dealer can collect the credit even if it's a foreign-made car and pass that on to the customer. that's a way to buy a kia or hyundai or bmw and still get the credit. host: stephen in marietta,

georgia, republican caller, you are a first in this conversation. good morning. caller: hey, good morgan. i did have a question for you. i am at work now, i am union and i've got all my: employees. how come it seems like when you say they are moving to the south is a total dodge to get around union workers. why do you think biden did not insist that if you want these government subsidies that you need to be hiring union workers with good wages? i feel really betrayed by this because biden was supposed to be very pro-worker and as you see in this country right now, there is worker solidarity. we are tired of this and the idea that between what's going on with the new postal trucks,

how they were supposed to be built in wisconsin and they moved it to south carolina to avoid the unions, our tax dollars should not be going to scab wages where people cannot even survive on it. it's really sad to see. i'm wondering what your take on this is. guest: that's a very valid point. one thing that's important to remember is the president didn't control every condition of this bill, it was the result of a difficult compromise with senator joe manchin from west virginia. he is very conservative so i don't think anybody sees it as a perfect bill. the president probably wouldn't have liked to see more labor protections than are there. you are right that a lot of these jobs are going to the south in states that do not have laws that are favorable to unions as other states and where

the rates of unionization are much lower. i totally understand what you are saying. it's a concern but the only way to handle it is to organize and i know labor is doing that. yeah, that's really the story. host: mark and michigan, independent. caller: thank you very much. i was noting that the elderly or people on a limited income cannot get the rebate on buying electric cars. i had a 96, manual transmission. i got in the habit of driving it and setting it up and putting it in neutral and coasting. i didn't realize my odometer quit working. i was actually turning back my odometer and i didn't know i didn't care, i was having fun. i started using motor quit, oil

additive. the concept is, i was able to drive without oil for over six months. i was able to drive 200 miles without oil are actually three years. host: altoona, pennsylvania, democratic caller. caller: i am calling with a concern. i see some tunnel vision going on with going to this. i know we are trying to do -- we are worried about the weather and the environment. are we jumping the gun on not thinking of the whole picture that everybody needs to have these electric cars. this is the kind of thing i see. what about natural disasters?

we won't have the electricity and the batteries are gone and we are sitting in an accident like in pennsylvania in the middle of winter when there was snow and ice and freezing temperatures. people with electric cars had issues with heat and they were stranded there for days. this is a problem that we had to consider. we are relying on something and we are jumping into things and everybody is being forced like the electric stoves. some of this is getting out of hand. host: how do you think people are being forced into buying electric vehicles? if they are incentivize, you see that is being forced? guest: caller: i see everybody by the year whatever, people are

jumping into we got these rebates so let's hurry up and get it but they are not looking at the the natural disasters that happen and how can you keep your car going? host: we got your point. guest: gasoline cars need to be refueled as well when they run out of gas so it's a question of what's the range of electric cars and their charging network. the thing to remember about electric cars is we need more fast chargers when people do road trips for most people charge at home. you can plug in electric car into a normal electrical socket so in that sense, you have more places to refuel than you do with a gas station. i understand these concerns and i hear them all the time. also the point about being forced, that's very widespread. there is a view that people feel this is something they don't want and it's somehow being pushed upon them by

policymakers. i understand how people feel about that. i think it's just a question of people getting used to the new technology and realizing it's not really as difficult a change as many people think. people are impressed by electric cars and how smooth and fast they are. for people like the caller, i think it's a question of getting used to the new technology i think people find out it's not as dark a change as they think. host: david, republican, florida. you have to your television. dave? one more time, you've got to mute the television, you are on air and we are waiting for you. caller: ok, all right. host:? comments? caller: my question is basically

right now, i thought that i was recorded already. i'm sorry. the thing was, mr. ewing, right now, a couple of things, actually -- right now -- host: i will have to move on. we will go to washington state, democratic caller. good morning. caller: yes, i think the inflation reduction act will save the world. as janet yellen said, everything is electric now and we have to switch over to something to get away from this fuel oil and coal and keep the co2 down. host: jack ewing? guest: there is no question that the money that's part of the

inflation reduction act is speeding up the whole transition. the car companies are investing faster than they would have with the push they are getting from the inflation reduction act and we can only hope it all happens fast enough to save us from climate change. host: is there a number or estimation of how much these companies are spending? guest: i can't give you the number off the top of my head, sorry. it's hundreds of billions of dollars, it's a lot of money. host: that's what i was wondering. guest: it's hundreds of billions, it's a lot of money. host: rosemary in new jersey, independent. caller: hi, i'm calling and i'm talking about electric company that is already going bankrupt. how much money did the taxpayers waste on that? i would like an answer for that, thank you. host: do you follow that story?

guest: i don't have an answer in terms of how much money protero might have gotten from the department of energy. one thing about the money that's going to start ups, some of them will fail. that's just the way it works. the idea is that you support tend come out and two are a success and it makes up for the eight that failed. there is been at norma's number of jobs created. it offset any amount of money of companies that might have failed. host: what did you find out? guest: first of all, i think it's hard to answer the question

whether the transition is going to create more jobs it destroys. what i saw is that in some communities, is not only creating jobs but like in warren, ohio which was devastated a few years ago when general motors posed just proposed a plan and they now have a battery factory and you are seeing a really dramatic revival in that hard-hit community. i went to to alito where -- i went to toledo where they are refitting a plant to make motors for electric vehicles. that's the positive side of the story. what's hard to see now, because there is the law of gasoline cars being made, as electric cars become more commonplace, you will see, particular suppliers, the companies that make parts that are unique to gasoline cars, some of them will go out of business.

companies that make mufflers or pistons, those types of things that you don't need in electric car. i think the jury is still out. what i saw in ohio was actually quite hopeful that there can be a transition that's good for workers. ron in florida on our for republicans. good morning. question -- is there any provision -- the automobiles will be sold in north dakota, north main and in vermont. is there a provision to heat the batteries at night while you are charging them? guest: yes, i think most electric cars have a feature where you can schedule when you will leave in the morning and it will heat up the battery before you leave. that's a pretty standard thing now. you raise a good point which is different climates and the batteries lose range. that's something no one has completely thought out.

host: south dakota, a republican, welcome to the conversation. caller: i was calling you, you are not addressing electrical generation. this electricity has to be generated. we are closing power plants, nuclear power plants go by the wayside. how are we going to have all this electricity generated? guest: that's a normal question. what i hear from utilities as they are not too worried about it. it's not as much electricity as you might think. one thing to remember about electric cars is they use less energy than a gasoline car. a gasoline car, about2/3 of the energy in a gasoline car is wasted in heat, exhaust or whatever. electric cars uses almost all the electricity you put into it and it goes into the forward motion of the car so it's much more energy-efficient than a

gasoline car. the places where you have a lot of electric cars like in norway, they are almost all new cars and they are electric. they haven't had any problems. they had a put in new transformers and made some adjustments but it wasn't as much of an addition to the total load is you might think. it's true there will need to be some -- improvement to the grid. locally, you may need to put in transformers here or there but utilities i talked to were not worried about this. host: elon musk recently said that the u.s. electricity demand will triple by around 2045. the wall street journal wonders -- is he right? guest: i don't think he's talking about just electric cars. i think he's talking about the whole electrification of the economy. usually what i've heard elon musk say is that we can generate all the electricity we need from the sun on a small amount of

real estate in comparison to the amount of real estate we have. i cannot really address that directly but i can just say from what i've heard from utilities, they are not worried about this. host: robert, cape coral, florida owns electric vehicle. caller: yes, good morning. i have an electric vehicle and i've owned it for about 15 months. i have 25,000 miles on it. i manufactured 17,000 kilowatt hours per year from free sunlight. it has given me zero problems. it is easy and fun to drive and it has a 300 mile range. i never go that far because i usually stop and get out and walk around. there is over 4 million teslas on the road already. they are basically computers on wheels. host: jack ewing?

guest: this is what you hear from people who have electric cars. they are very happy with them. at the new york times, a few months ago, we asked people to share their views of electric vehicle owner vehicles and we got thousands of responses and overwhelmingly, people were very happy with the products. they love them. i think the other point the men made was that he is generating his own electricity with solar and that's also become very common. there are companies that are selling them as a package where you by electric cars and you get solar on your roof or in your yard. yeah, that's also in answer to the grid question. many people are generating all the power they need for their car. host: charlotte, north carolina, independent. caller: yes, i would like to just say that the united states

of america has always given the people a choice in owning their own vehicles or their guests toes or anything and i think is ridiculous, this green energy deal that all the world is not on board with it, why are we the only people? china and russia and india are not creating a green climate. they are using their fossil fuels and everything. i just don't see -- i have a major investment in keeping my old gasoline cars that run when the electricity is out. i can charge my phone and stay warm. electric cars do not do this. people on fixed incomes cannot afford electric cars. guest: the lady makes a couple of important points.

regarding china and the rest of the world, the united states is actually behind. in china, 1/3 of cars produced are electric and they are producing solar panels. we are playing catch up in the green energy. the other thing about blackouts, one thing people don't realize is that the electric cars can actually provide backup in your house ring a blackout which a gas powered car cannot do. gm said a couple of days ago that every car they make in the future is going to have that capability. actually, electric cars can contribute to green stability rather than being a burden. as far as being forced, i think the question came up before. we are talking incentives. the ira is a caret build, not a stick built. its regulations giving companies

financial incentives to produce electric cars or go solar and adopt green technology. host: we will hear from don in des moines, iowa, democratic caller. caller: yes, jack, i appreciate what you're trying to do but is just another chinese take over. i'm sorry you are part of it. host: in what way? caller: what is china doing now? what are the bidens doing? i'm sorry that's the way it is. host: bob in panama city, florida, republican. caller: yes, i have a couple of questions. first of all, what do batteries cost to replace? where is the material come from to make the batteries? why don't we let mining for this

test these materials and why don't we go nuclear? thank you. guest: the raw materials, that's a big part of the ira. and what it's addressing the gentleman raises some important points. lots of the raw materials like refined graphite which you need for batteries, those are coming from china. with the bill is trying to do is create a supply chain that's independent from china. the man mentioned why don't we mind these things in the united states and people are trying to do that. part of the problem is that there is a permitting process in the united states which is probably too slow and they are trying to speed that up. there are efforts underway to mind lithium in the united states or get it from our allies , countries we have friendly relations with that are not in china.

the important point is it's not just the minds, it's also the refineries which are also right now mostly in china. the bill has a lot of money to build those things in the united states which will create jobs. host: you share a byline on this story? where are these materials in the united states? guest: there is lithium in california and there is lithium in north carolina. it's not actually rare. it's all over the place but you have to build the mines and build the refineries. that's going on but it takes time. a mind is not something you get into production in a couple of months, it takes years. there's also lithium in canada and québec is a lot of lithium

so it's just a question of getting it out of the ground and refining it. that's something we know how to do but it will take time. host: bread in springfield, illinois, independent. caller: hi, jack. following up on the mining thing, we are supposed to be saving the environment but we are stripmining all these materials from the ground. it's going to hurt the future of our children. i feel that we use our military and send them off to other countries to remove the resources and leave destruction behind. i am 45 and all i've ever seen in my lifetime is conflict after conflict. host: let's take the first part of your statement. this mining process in efforts to go electric and for climate

change, what is the mining process doing to the environment? guest: first of all, a lithium mind is pretty small. i've been to them and if you compare it to a gold they are not huge. it's true that to make an electric car it creates more greenhouse gases than a gas driven car. you quickly make up that difference because once the electric cars on the road, is not using fossil fuels. on the point about military conflict, there has been former military conflict involving oil then any kind of battery minerals. that's one of the big benefits of electric vehicles is that if you look at the history of the oil industry, all the wars we fought so often, energy oil has been part of it. we have a chance to illuminate that. host: rick is in altoona, pennsylvania, democrats. caller: i'm wondering what will

happen, where do these batteries go after they wear out? that lady on that call, they can't buy $50,000 car. some people look for a $5,000 car which is a hard thing to find out just to make it back and forth to work. there are other ways to get fuel. did you ever hear from getting killed from hemp oil? what comes out of a gas car is carbon dioxide to [speaking foreign language] so why are we looking at this stuff instead of electric? also, you said it won't affect jobs that much. how about the auto parts stores and the employees that work there? host: i'm going to have jack

ewing jump in, go ahead. guest: a couple of points there -- on the hemp oil, i think there was attempts to have biofuel as the answer to the greenhouse gas issue. the problem with them is it's just too expensive. one reason people talk about electric vehicles is it has become clear that's the least expensive option. but the man made a point that they are too expensive for most people and that's true. the average cost is around $50,000 and it has come down a lot in the last year and it will continue to come down. i understand that these cars are too expensive for most people. part of what the inflation reduction act tries to do is make it more affordable. on recycling, on what happens to a battery at the end of his life, a lot of them can be

reused as storage, maybe not be powerful enough to drive a car but still be used for energy storage or they can be recycled. that's already happening. you can really recover almost all of the material from a used battery and use it again and that brings us back to the mining issue because at some point, we will have enough batteries to recycle we don't need to do that much mining because you can get the lithium and the cobalt in the graphite out of the battery and use it again. host: charles in millville, new jersey, independent. caller: yes, you mentioned about the military. most of the fighting in other countries and what they can provide for us. in the same token, that will not change anything.

also, it was already brought up about the cost of these batteries. in the meantime, china is burning coal like crazy and what are we doing about that? guest: on the cost, batteries are getting better. we are not really mass-producing electric vehicles, they are still fairly in each product and when you make them by the millions, the price comes down just from economies of scale. in terms of conflict, the thing about battery materials is if you look at oil, there are's fairly small countries that have a lot of oil. if you look at what goes into a battery, that's very widely distributed. i don't think you will have anybody like saudi arabia having lithium or graphite more than others. these are materials you can find pretty much anywhere. it's just a question of establishing the minds and the

refineries. host: one last question here, indiana, republican. caller: yes, host: we are listening. caller: ok, these electric cars, if you want to go on a long trip, it will take you twice the time an electric car is a gas car and there's a better alternative out there. in the 1960's, chrysler developed a turbine engine made up of combustible material. host: we will take your issue of time for a long trip. guest: it doesn't take twice as long. it takes a little bit longer and you have to stop to charge. i've done many road trips and driven out to ohio and west virginia. i'm about to drive to west virginia and it's a different way of traveling and you have to build in the traveling time -- the charging time. you learn how to schedule that

when you want to take a break. it doesn't make a huge difference, adenauer or two-tier trip in the batteries are getting better in the charging times are going down. i think most people who have an electric car realize it's a big inconvenience plus modes of the time, you are charging at home so you never have to go to a gas station. and that's very convenient host: jack e on friday president biden host japanese prime minister kishida at camp david for what will be thfirst trilateral summit with leaders. they are expecd to discuss china, north korea, and serity in the end of pacific region. watch their jnt news conference livat 3:00 p.m. stern on c-span, c-span now, our free mobile video app or online at c-span.org. ♪ this week, c-span brings you

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