and republican voters? that is my question. guest 1: good question. i think for now, at least, the republican effort to expose what they refer to as deep state influence or what other republicans referred to as the weaponization of the federal government, for now it is adding to the polarization that we see across politics. i don't think republicans are expecting many democrats to agree with them. this is an effort by republicans to appeal to their base and democrats go their own way. host: we will leave it there. we have been speaking this morning with three of the lead co-authors of the almanac of

american politics. thank you all for joining us this morning. we will take a quick break and return for open forum, so start calling in now. republicans, (2) 748-8001. democrats,202) 748-8000. and independents, (202) 748-8002 . ♪ >> c-span's campaign 2024 coverage as your front row seat to the presidential election. watch meeting greets, speeches and events to make up your own

mind. campaign 2024 on the c-span network, c-span now or anytime online at c-span.org. c-span, or unfiltered view of politics. ♪ >> sunday night on q and a in his book, university of richmond professor mussi looks at the seizure of three buildings in washington dc. hostages were taken at all three locations. >> it is amazing how this story has receded in the background and we don't talk about it as much. this is the first time anyone has told this story. it has not been assembled by anyone. a lot of lives were lost, and no

one has talked about it. the local court records were lost, including the transcript. i uncovered the transcript. it is thousands of pages, and it is every word spoken by every witness in the trial. it really helped me. that record really up to me piece together the sequence of events in washington those two days. >> professor mufti and his book "american caliph." ♪ >> a healthy democracy does not just look like this. it looks like this, where americans can see democracy at work, where citizens are truly informed our democracy thrives.

get informed straight from the source on c-span, unfiltered, unbiased, word for word from the nation's capital to wherever you are, because the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is what democracy lks like. c-span, powered by cable. ♪ >> during the 2022-2023 u.s. supreme court term, judges announced decisions on some of the most consequential oral argument cases. this week we will examine some of those cases regarding affirmative action, antidiscrimination, and religious liberty. on monday we will look at the case of allen versus milligan involving alabama's congressional map and voting rights. the court ruled in favor of black voters saying alabama's redistricting map violates the voting rights act. watch key supreme court oral

arguments at 9:00 p.m. eastern on c-span and online at c-span.org. ♪ >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back to washington journal. it is time for open forum your chance to weigh in on any plitt topic of the day. the numbers are republicans, you dial (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. and independents, (202) 748-8002 . we will start with mark in ohio, democratic line. caller: hello? host: go ahead, mark. caller: i basically don't understand in this country why the democrats and biden, they are working for the people, they believe in climate change, they

want people to have voting rights and freedom, and the republicans are a party of hate. they are backing a criminal for president. it his common sense. all of these people are saying biden is not popular. he has done a wonderful job. he has tried very hard for everybody, republicans and democrats. there is no hate in his heart. he believes in god. trump doesn't, and a lot of people still follow him. that is my comment. host: let's go to stephen tucson, arizona, independent line. caller: just a general observation. i find it almost amusing that the political person who loses an election and a political party who loses an election,

they blame the other side, they blame the media, they blame nebulous, gray political groups for their defeat and they never look at the possibility that it might be there candidates and policies that caused them to lose. host: next caller, john, pounding mills virginia, republican line. caller: good morning. i just had two quick points. when your colors call in and say "when trump gets elected it will end democracy," i don't understand. can you ask them to explain what that means? when he was president i didn't see democracy ending. i was just wondering in the

georgia trials, if the trump lawyers would be allowed to introduce any clips from the documentary 2000 mules, which proved all of the shenanigans that went on in the election,, georgia turned out to be the worst -- and fulton county, georgia turned out to be the worst offender in terms of stuffing the ballot boxes. perhaps, a lawyer could call in and explain. host: maureen up next from winchester, new hampshire, democratic line. caller: good morning. i have a question if anyone can answer it. i am concerned about green energy and solar power.

how if any -- on the solar panels, are they stable during high winds? are they being destroyed? host: ok. let's hear from stephanie now in pennsylvania, independent. caller: hello. there was a big issue about whether we should be couple or d-link from china. i think we need tode-link -- to de-link or decouple from every author terrien country --

authoritarian country. you don't see anyone risking their lives to get into russia or china. in fact they try to steal people to try and get them to come in their. what does that tell you about authoritarianism? authoritarianism is exactly what trump stands for. he wants to be an authoritarian. once he gets into office, he will never get out. that guy who just called and said give me some proof? the proofnot want to leave. that is why he caused all that hullabaloo with the riots. one last thing. independents make up 40% of the electorate. democrats make up 20% and republicans make up 20%.

independents should get double the number of calls, yet you have two republicans and two democrats before me, who is an independent. it is going the exact opposite of what i think. host: we got your point. just to clarify, we take calls as they come. we try our best to switch it up between republican, democrat, and independent but we can only do as much for -- as much for its the calls that come in. jerry, miami, republican line. caller: i am a moderate republican and i have a suggestion for our democratic friends on how they can embarrass republicans in the next election. that would be to agree to bring

forth the hunter biden and joe biden accusations to a bipartisan committee. with a 1026 form from the fbi, not redacted. the information on the 150 bank statements, and then they have a chance to embarrass republicans by proving it false. then they might win the election over this. host: all right. ettle from jacksonville, florida on the democratic line. caller: yes, ma'am. i was trying to text on the last segment when you have the guest. i need someone to tell me why the state court -- host: go ahead. caller: i need someone to tell

me the supreme court out of alabama created another district but yet failed to do that. i don't hear anyone talking about that. that is a great concern. i will listen to your answer. maybe one of your callers will tommy about it. host: jeanette in missouri, democratic line. caller: i just wanted to warn teachers in missouri that's our government in jefferson city punishes teachers -- in missouri that our government in jefferson city punishes teachers by keeping all their social security. there are 13 places that do that and missouri is one. i taught all my life. my husband worked all his life

at another job and never taught. he worked for a private company. when he passes away, missouri will take two thirds of all his social security away from me and my family. i will get one third of 40 years of his work. that's is a federal law but each state has the right to enact it or not. of course, missouri decides to punish the teachers in this way. whenever a teacher works in the summer for -- for any other kind of job, and never get the social security back. a third maybe if they are lucky. i just screamed from the mountain tops, do not teach in missouri.

unless you marry another teacher. but if you fall in love with a mechanic or blue-collar or white-collar, when that marriage partner dies, missouri will take two-thirds of their well, honestly earned social security. why can't missouri teachers have that for their families? host: we appreciate your call this morning. pennsylvania. william calling on the republican line. caller: how can you get trumped for an insurrection when the fbi said it was not an insurrection. the fbi were there, setting everything up. we have all the video teams from january 6. you are trying to charge him. all the evidence from the

january 6 committees that you guys were televising all day, everyday day, for how many months -- all the evidence and stuff is gone. nobody finds this convenient? and you are convicting him over a phone call? when joe biden is on a phone call saying, if you do not fire the guy investigating my kid, you will not get the money? come on. host: and defendant line, next -- independent line, next. washington, d.c. caller: thank you for taking my call. i wanted to comment on the indictments. donald trump is facing 91 charges -- 91 counts which seem to be federal and eight. i am very surprised that most defendants and federal

defendants do not get the luxury of donald trump, being free, out on bail. and disparaging people constantly. i don't understand why the court cannot gag order this man? he has no right to be disparaging court judges and jurors constantly. there has to be something that needs to be done. i am hoping he gets a gag order. enough of the red carpets. he is no longer a president. he committed numerous egregious acts. i am hoping the federal court says something about this. thank you. host: on the democratic line, wesley in maryland. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. what i want to talk about is abortion.

when god created the first woman -- man, that was his only child he created. so when people say god created these children, he did not. they did not even understand the bible. man and women created the children. they do have the right to abort those if they choose. it is not anybody else's right to take these liberties. all these people talking about abortion is wrong, it is not. it is not. it is another thing i have to say. god wants these people that --

[indiscernible], so she can forgive them. back then, there were best friends and prayed every night to end the civil or. when they end of the civil war, they blamed god. it was not his fault they lost the war. they lost the war because they could not outmaneuver the north. host: we are going to have to leave it there. ohio, jonathan on the republican line. caller: yes. i am a republican. if the republican party nominates donald trump, i will vote for joe biden. donald trump is a crook.

people have died from his lies. if the republican party nominates him, i will vote for joe biden. host: dewayne, westbrook, maine, independent line. caller: i have been watching c-span since the early 80's when brian lam was there. i have to echo the sentiment of the pennsylvania carter -- pennsylvania caller. more americans identify as independents. starting the show with a question about foreign policy. both parties supported u.s. imperialism. we need to have parties in this country. we need to have representation. it does not represent the establishment of washington which was where brick capture.

you do not give a voice to -- americans in this country are supposed to be a democracy but you only focus on team read and blue. there are both corporate co-opted. you have joe biden who is corrupt and has been in office for for years. we thought donald trump was corrupt. need to represent all the program the same establishment voices and the same corporate media. the washington post, the new york times. you need to focus more on social media. since 2000, social media has exploded in terms of influence and reach. they are really where you will find what the american people think. c-span is ignoring.

there was a change back in 1982. but c-span has not. you are not reaching the american people. you promote this day after day. host: we got your point. appreciate your call this morning. let's go to maria in atlanta, georgia on the democratic line. caller: good morning. i am a faithful listener for 30 years, first thing in the morning, 7:00, washington journal. my number one news station is c-span. i have been noticing lately, brian lam set up a little bit, with more people of color and host. a sister and i were talking, what is going on with c-span? we were just wondering, what is

going on? we see a little more people of color as hosts and panels. i want to stay listener for 30 more years. i love you guys. host: appreciate your comments today. that's go to deandre in maryland, republican line. caller: good morning, c-span and america. thank you for having me. i am 27. i don't know it all. but i have good capability to think and see through fallacies and manufacture crises. another thing to point out -- 2012, house resolution dismiss modernization act removed the ban on propaganda in corporate news mainstream media, domestic and international.

since 2012, 90 8% -- 98% is lies and smoke springs -- screens to have us confused and not see what is going on which is happening in our faces. there are over 2000 suspicious activity reports filed by the doj. there should be people going back to at least the obama administration who also needs to be held for treason. from what i have been hearing since it started, our country is heading to hell in a hand basket. if america falls, the entire world falls. we need to pick up the pace. host: eileen is our next caller, st. petersburg, florida, democrat line. caller: i would like to make a

comparison and a comment about ron desantis, my governor, and donald trump. donald trump is the worst human that has ever been president. but i have to warn everybody that ron desantis with -- would be a worse candidate. i have lived in florida for over 70 years of my life. the way he is attacking our days and our teachers. if joe biden does not win and either donald trump or ron desantis winds, we are doomed. whether or not you like joe biden or his policies, please do not support ron desantis or donald trump. host: next, republican line. kyle from rochester, new york. caller: i do not normally call.

i usually just watch. but there was a comment made around 20 to 30 minutes ago that the senate should go by population like the house of representatives. i would like to push back. the whole point of having two senators from each state, when the constitution was written, over 200 years ago was to make sure everyone was represented. it is working just as intended to not leave anyone's opinion out. i just wanted to comment because that is the one that bugs me. but that is ok. i think you do great work and i appreciate everything sees as does -- everything c-span does. host: when we come back, our weekly spotlight on podcasts. we will meet the cohosts of the fulcrum "vital signs of

democracy" podcast, debilyn molineaux and david riordan. ♪ announcer: listening to programs on c-span span radio just got easier. tell your smart speaker, play c-span radio and listen to washington journal daily and important congressional events throughout the day. catch washington today for a fast-paced report of the stories of the day. listen to c-span anytime. tell your smart speaker, "play c-span radio." c-span, powered by cable. announcer: during the 2022-2023 u.s. supreme court turn, they

had some of the most consequential oral argument cases. this week, we examine some cases involving voting rights, affirmative action, anti-religious discrimination, executive power and more. monday, we look at the case allen versus milliken. the court ruled in favor of black voters, saying alabama's redistricted map violates regulations. starting august 21 at 9:00 p.m. eastern . ♪ announcer: this fall, watch c-span's new series, "books that shaped america." join us on a captivating journey and partnership with the library of congress to explore key works

of literature for -- from american history. he books that provoke thoughts, won awards and are still important today. virtual journeys to significant locations across the country, and trickett tied to the celebrated authors and their unforgettable books. among our books, common sense by thomas payne, huckleberry finn, the eyes were watching god, and free to choose by milton and rose friedman. books to shape -- books that shaped america starting monday on c-span, c-span now our free mobile video app, or online at c-span.org. announcer: a healthy democracy does not just look like this. it looks like this.

where americans can see democracy at work, where citizens are truly informed, a republican thrives. informed straight from the source, on c-span, unfiltered, unbiased. the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span, powered by cable. host: we are back with the fulcrums, debilyn molineaux and david riordan. they will be discussing their podcasts, "vital signs of democracy," and political news of the day. good morning. guest: guest: good morning. good to be here. host: debilyn molineaux, tell us about the fulcrum of which you are a copublisher.

its mission and how it started. guest: it was founded in 2019-ish by folks who wanted to get news of the democracy reform around the country. there was not a lot of news about democracy itself so the fulcrum became the gathering point. and we took over in 2021, we expanded coverage to include democracy or how democracy activities and opinions. where we could come together to inform, interact and engage in democracy. host: tell us about the podcast. why did you decide to launch "vital signs of democracy," and why now? guest: david came to us with this idea about the podcast and noticed we had rating systems for a lot of elements that we want to get a quick glance on.

like if we do not want to dive into the detail, what is the quick glance? developed this idea of "vital signs of democracy" to scan the news and see if it was taking us closer or away from democracy. that is where the meter came from. the podcast came because we wanted to give people something to do. if we can provide people with ways to think about the news as they are observing and taking in the news, and then provide them a way to perform their citizen duties in healthy weight, that is what the podcast is about. host: david, you have a background in entertainment. how did you become involved with the website and podcast? what is your role? guest 2: "vital signs" is about the power of stories. i came out of the entertainment

business with a long career in that. when we look at the future at certain point, they mostly seem to be dystopian. there was not much positive. so we started to look at the news, collect, and analyze healthy stories. there are two ways humans make sense of things. the data and information. and then subjective stories we make up to get the data to make meaning to us. we were interested in the subjective stories driving the political environment. at this point, i think it is fair to say, we have two major "make america great" narratives and that seems to be driving things more than people looking at facts. host: david, how do you decide on topics for your podcast? guest 2: debilyn molineaux and i

look across 10 categories and create the measurements that go to vital signs of democracy.com every two weeks. there are things we have seen that are not necessarily making it to the mainstream yet but we think are important. each of us will pick one of those that is of interest to us. then we go at that and try to see what is really happening with that particular story. host: we are talking with the host of the "vital signs of democracy" podcast. if you have a question about their podcast or political news of the day, we want you to start calling in. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002.

start calling in now. we will get to yo's calls in a moment -- to those calls in a moment. debilyn molineaux, your inaugural podcast was back in february and focused on the make america great again story that david just mentioned, competing for our attention. tell me more about this big project on the two "make america great" narratives and how this sets the tone for the podcast overall. guest: the way we framed the two make america great again or a -- make america great stories, and really that was the way david framed it, was the culture war writ large but in a different frame. one where we may be able to take a step back and observe more

about the stories we are hearing instead of being inside. a lot of the podcast is about helping observe the stories coming to us from the media instead of being captured but -- captivated by the stories themselves and creating an enemy of people in the other story. we are one america and it is not like divorce is really possible. host: david, in your most recent episode, you point out that 75% of maga republicans still believe the 2020 election was stolen. what percentage of republicans are considered maga and how do they feel about a second term for donald trump? guest: we do look at numbers and polls and that what we look at stories being told. i will be very general about this because our experts better

at this than me. the maga part of the audience is generally 30% to 35%. and then you have moderate republicans. it's not forget the monarch -- the maga republicans make the most noise so they get her the most. but even moderate republicans still voted for him in the last election even with some things they did not agree with. you have republicans and democrats, and then a huge group in the middle that is independent. that is what we are. i am not crazy about either the republicans or democrats for any particular reason. we are really making the difference in swing states about which way they will lean. host: let's go to phone lines. a reminder.

republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. you can also send a text message to (202) 748-8003. zachary in florida, independent line. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, -- caller: hello. i am a marine. let's start with that. as a squad leader and section chief, you are always looking out for people. i believe you are a leader of this country, whether you are a publication or democrat, that your first priority should be for the country. if i measure those things, when i look at donald trump and joe biden, joe biden has done a better job. when i look at the media and these podcast -- i listen to them regularly and i have

listened regularly to c-span for years. i am concerned about the media presenting false narratives to all constituents. that is a ro problem. not all the media. i will not call names but we know who they are. the conservative media seems to be crazy. i neighbors do not speak to me anymore. i live in a quiet neighborhood of the people did not speak anymore. my question is, is the media not causing a lot of these concerns we are having? host: debilyn molineaux? guest: first, thank you to your service and amen to the leadership we need right now. there is a book out there called -- i forget the name of the book off the top of my head. it is by amanda ripley. most of the media is not news coverage but conflict

profiteering. i want to point out there is a distinction between true journalism and conflict profiteering. because those who mask as media are actually fomenting outrage. we need to show what they are. and find a way to mitigate or make them irrelevant in my opinion. host: it looks like the name of the book is "high conflict." let's go to another caller. brian in minnesota, independent line. caller: good morning. first and foremost, i want to give a huge shout out to seize and -- c-span. for like 20 years, you have been giving information to me and a lot of people before that. thank you. the question i have for the guests today, i am wondering

what they think about the july 26 during. i am wondering what they think that issue might have to say about the health of that democracy being all the bipartisan especially in that long. . thank you guys so much. host: that is a hearing onuap 's. is there anything you think we can draw about politics from that echo guest 2: -- from that? guest 2: we look at that and ask, what could change things? the ufo story has been around for some time. you think, if there is some hints there is life off the planet, this changes every angle. if we are talking about the political environment today, and

that is important. if this ever happens, this would significantly change humanity. i will not predict how this will go. i am happy to see the u.s. story is getting drawn from the fringes and into the mainstream because there is a lot to talk about. we are tracking this very heavily because there is one of those potential changes that could make a difference to everything. host: orlando, washington, d.c., democrat line. caller: i have a question and a comment. is it possible -- you said it yourself that independents are making a difference. i think that is what you said. is it possible that independents , along with trump supporters, are also putting more favor

toward donald trump by not voting for democrats? you said they are making a difference but are they making a difference when the vote is actually swinging to the right? if the independents are making a positive impact or if your vote is making a negative impact? you understand what i am trying to say? host: i think so. let's let debilyn molineaux way in. guest: i will reframe the question to say, how can independents make the most healthy toys in their voting patterns? especially in a swing state. independents make of a larger percentage of registered voters than democrats or republicans. the last i heard was around 42%. people in the 18 to 30

four-year-old category make of a higher percentage of independents than not because they see the dysfunction within political parties. independent voters are being courted by both mainstream narratives david and i cover in the podcast to either make america great by the maga republicans story or the make america great which is the pluralistic multiracial democracy. those are the two narratives the independents are choosing between. a fascinating piece to look at from a narrative standpoint is, how could independents organize themselves to actually create a third story? along those same lines -- host: that you want to say something, david? guest 2: and what we are seeing when we talk about independence

as we start this election season is there are independent efforts. they are well-funded and are considering offering a different choice if it ends up being donald trump and biting as the two major characters. how this will affect the 2024 election just throws more questions and make this -- makes this more unstable of how this might work out if none of the candidates get a majority of the vote. then what do we do? that is something to really watch as we head into the 2024 election. what is going to be the influence of the candidates? host: along those same lines when it comes to let's polarize politics is the issue of gerrymandering. we had a previous caller who

said he would like a discussion on the alabama redistricting case. have you guys looked at alabama or redistricting as a whole? alabama was supposed to have a new map that was less gerrymandered and would have black voters be able to elect a second member of congress but state leaders chose not to adhere to those guidelines in the revised map. debilyn molineaux? guest: i actually think david is better suited to answer this question because he has been looking at this when states ignore the law. guest 2: i will pick on the maga republicans. i am an independent. this is the republican party attempting to do something about how the districts are laid out. normally, in the past, when a

party continue to lose elections, they would then try to expand their base. if you want to look at the right, you can look at ronald reagan as he expanded his base hugely to include people of color and women. in this case, from a narrative standpoint, it seemed to be "vital signs of democracy -- seemed the maga republicans had given up on trying to attract voters. so then you need to attract votes to win as a minority in the electoral college. what is going on in alabama in addition to gerrymandering is the fact the supreme court, it is conservative by any means, as already said there needs to be two districts. and the state of alabama said, we are not going to do that.

this is something indicating where we might be going. when you have states saying, they are looking at the federal opinion and saying, we are not going to listen to that. host: mike from stockton, california on the independent line. caller: i just wanted to make a couple statements. [indiscernible] i noticed, a lot of times a son will make a statement to his father like, "see, dad, you don't have to yell at a fellow." [indiscernible]

it is sort of like a psychosis or something. donald trump. my brother cause him agent orange. and i called rudy giuliani the melting man. we are going through a really dark chapter. all the false exaggerations. i just almost want to give up. i am glad the polls are coming out, showing only 14% of republicans are believing this now. it needs to get down to just around 0%. donald trump needs to go to prison and get it over with. he knew he was lying in the election was not stolen. host: we got your point. let's let debilyn molineaux

respond to some of your points. guest: thank you for calling. you obviously have not given up yet or you would not be calling. i have a lot of friends who are resigned and have given up. what this actually does is, when we citizens delegate our power and we are still active, it concentrates that power in the hands of a few. to the extent that we can find a way to get off our couches and go find others who think like we do, that citizens need to be the center of the government, instead of the manipulated consumer of politics, is where our power lies. people would not focus on the outrage and others would not focus on suppressing votes if it did not matter. they would ignore us if it did not matter.

i sound a little evangelical about citizenship and voting right now because i am. i can hear you care deeply and are disappointed. find colleagues who think like you do and bolster each other up. host: let's go to international falls, minnesota. brad on the republican line. caller: good morning. i have a couple quick questions. the first one is, why didn't jack smith use all of donald trump's words about whatever? in his indictment, he never said that donald trump said to go there peacefully and patriotically. the second question is, if 20 show companies doing no business is not a proof -- shell companies doing business is not proof of corruption, what is?

host: david? guest 2: i certainly understand the perspective. the thing we have to look at from a story standpoint as there are lots of stories in the environment. when we say, these are things donald trump said or did not say, there is a plethora of things he has said and continues to say. it is easy to cherry pick the comments and find the ones that support your doing about him one way or another. i think what will happen with jack smith is we will move out of this political environment where everyone can say anything they want, and it just seems crazy from day-to-day, and we will actually go into court. jack smith will have to prove that whatever donald trump said that he feels is criminal behavior.

in teen that point, all the conversations we have -- at that point, all the conversations we have outside the court system will fall one way or another. they will incriminate him or they will not. host: i want to ask a question we are getting on social media. i have some articles that are relevant. there is an article on the hill that says "biden ally rust off calls for primary debate." it is about how president biden is not being advised that he should debate longshot challenger. what we has an article that says "donald trump rolls out attending debate." saying ronald reagan did not do it. it is about the fact donald trump may not debate the other

republican nominees, vying for that in 2024. i want to pull of a. it is from ny -- myland. is donald trump refusing to debate ron desantis and chris christie good for democracy? that is the question i wanted to ask. david, i will start with you. guest 2: when we look at this question of debates, it is an american tradition that candace would show up on a stage and we get -- that candidates with soap on stage and we get to listen to them and to others. i think this is a sign of the times as we move into the 2024 election. when we go back to 2020, once president biden was selected to be their candidate and donald

trump was selected, the choice was clear. we also democracy was on the ballot, which i think it was. as a result, joe biden won the election. when we look into 2024 and you have 70% of the voters in polls -- and we have to know this is just one perspective, they say they do not like either one of them. we saw this with 2016 with donald trump in hillary clinton. it is like the worst of two choices. at the moment, joe biden's stomach -- dominating the democratic side. you do not open that can of worms and let people talk to your policy. i do not think this does a service -- i think this is a disservice on both sides. if you are not willing to meet

dust to show up and meet the current challenges, are very different from 2020, and help clear the murkiness we feel about this particular election going forward all our fears about it, that is a sign democracy has weekend. i would encourage both parties and independents to show up and debate each other. let the voters decide what they want. host: debilyn molineaux? guest: david is so right in that joe biden and trump only have things to lose. the politics and history is the one who makes those decisions and says -- the politics industry is the one who makes those decisions and says you do not create an opening for vulnerability. this underpins everything we are talking about today. it also thwarts any new ideas from emerging or any new

coalitions from forming because the system has already been ranked say we are just going to focus on people who already have the power. that is part of why, as citizens, we all need to get more active in the political system and election system and think about voting and redistricting and other mechanisms. it actually provides us with more opportunity. host: dennis, new jersey, democrat line. caller: how are you doing? i had a question by think i will change it since i was listening to things that were said. democracy, a large part is based on our fate in the system. if we lose that, i am afraid of things. but i think my fate is still in the people and i will give an

example. when i have served on juries, i have found a majority of the people i was serving with -- it did not matter whether you were republican or democrat or whatever your political views were. everyone saw it as a sacred duty. when you went in, you became a blank slate. and you listened to what was happening. that is where my fate lies. i hope that continues. host: debilyn molineaux, why do things seem to be so much more polarized? guest: i will go back to the profit -- conflict profiteers. starting with talk radio back in the 1980's, this was a way for folks to make money off expressing opinions that seemed

unpopular by the mainstream. as they continue to propagate, they became more and more popular. now, the conflict profiteers narratives and stories david and i are following in our podcast has become the major narrative. instead of it being like a crazy uncle in the corner talking or our crazy aunt in the other corner talking, that has now become the public narrative about democracy. democracy is actually a really messy process and is how we as a people decide and make decisions about our future. the conflict profiteers have captured us in a way that we do not participate in this way. guest 2: can i add something? the whole issue of polarization -- and we look at this from a narrative standpoint.

there are two narratives competing with each other and we do not seem to listen to each other as we used to. there is one sign of hope. the caller's notion warmed my heart in the sense that we all have to keep the faith that the system will somehow onto these challenges. here is the sign of hope. if you look at national polls -- and we look at 10 categories that you think will force -- will affect democracy. like women's right to choose, the independence of the justice system, and all those things what impact democracy one way or another. if you look at the national polls on the subjects, you have 55 percent to 70% of america that is made up of moderate republicans and democrats that agree.

they agree voting ought to be easy. they agree a woman ought to have the right to choose in this culture. they agree the justice department should be going after people in a way that the legal system is forthright and transparent. you look at this and say it is 55% to 70% of america, so what is the polarization? part of that is social media. another part is neither side of parties have an interest in hauling that group to the front of america or do not know how. when we look at that group, if someone can figure out a narrative that will attract that group -- and the majority of americans stand up and extremes back to where they belong on the edge of the conversation, then

our democracy may have a chance to strengthen itself. guest: the policies have actually catered to the more extreme viewpoint because of the way our primary system works. one of the things we need to look at his house do we conduct our primaries? that is when the extreme voters show up. whoever wins the primary wins the election. host: ed on the independent line. caller: a solution to our political problems in the country is to have a god and country party comprised of military veterans. there is only 17 veterans in the senate, and only 47 in congress. our hope for the future is in the hands of the veterans.

it is the soldier, not the minister, who has given us freedom of religion. it is the soldier, not the reporter, wes given us freedom of press. it is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. it is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us freedom of protest. host: we got your point. david, what do you think about his thoughts about putting soldiers in charge of american politics -- or veterans? guest 2: it goes right to the heart of, do we need something else other than the binary choice we have? whether you count your story as a veterans party or god party, what we are seeing in the 55% to 70% of americans we talked about

before is the question is not republican or democrat. the question is, are we americans and what does this mean? we have fought with each other forever between conservative and liberal opinions about what we should do going forward but it was within certain guardrails. we have now blown through them so the conversation seems much more extreme at the main center. i understand the caller's frustration. i feel it every day. isn't there something else we can do them the choice we have now? i think we will see these independent efforts in the 2024 alexa will gain traction and have an influence. host: christine, rhode island, democrat line. caller: good morning. thank you for your service. it is very educational. i hope someone learns about what

you are talking about. i will not talk about democrat or republican. i will talk about the usa i totally agree with but that man said from florida. -- with what that man said from florida. i believe the military and veterans pay their dues. they are trying to keep our country safe. but when you have a person running around the country and using propaganda -- i watched it all the way. even watching the second impeachment, if they wanted to know any more information, they would have continued with the hearing. they all took an oath on the bible. if they do not -- at a time like this, i cannot see democrats and

republicans attacking each other. right now, the united states needs to be together. this was all vladimir putin's plan from 2017, they stood out there and said it was like bombs dropping and where stance tempora 11. let's tone it down. listen, think. host: all right. we got your point. guest: i love what you are saying and i hear the passion. i wonder if you wanted to look up an organization called li vingroomconversations.org. this is a way to talk with family members and friends in a way that is not heated.

it helps us see people's stories and how they developed their belief. i just had a sense when you were talking that that might be something you would want to do to help get to know people in a different way. we have had some churches who used this. i cofounded this organization, for 36 sake. there were people in the church that did a living room conversation and came away from the first conversation saying i found out something about this person i know for 30 years and i feel like i know the much deeper now. i did not know i did not know them. it is something citizens can do. host: republican line. bob from seattle, washington. caller: hello, everybody. i am sitting and watching c-span.

about a boxer see and about -- democracy and voting. i look at the state of washington and how secure voting is by mail-in ballot. and the ease of voting. how is it that we only have 11 states in the union that a vote by mail? and why that does not get more accelerated? i come from the printing industry. i am surrounded by what happens with the ballots. the printers that print those. the ease in which it is to vote. what is it that you think is suppression by the far right to not want to have vote by mail throughout the united yet --

united states? and the narrative by donald trump that talks about this in a negative way. you saw -- back off his appointment to that and say, this guys going down the wrong path. the mail has to move in a certain way. host: thank you for the call. a quick response? guest: this is part of the politics industry making it so their candidates can win. if they cannot win by drawing their face, they will win by changing their roaster they have all the power. host: david, any quick final thoughts? debilyn molineaux the story made --guest 2: the story may be changing. on the maga republican side, there has been a story where they only trust the votes that

have taken place on the day of the election at a polling place. they do not trust mail in ballots because they consider them to be more of a liberal vote. given the fact donald trump lost in 2020, and the 2022 election did not turn out for them, we are starting to see the narrative change. the idea of voting by mail or making it easier to votes in addition to what you do on the day of will get more support from the republican side because they have been losing, attempting to try to suppress that vote and depending on people showing up on the day of. it has not worked out well for them. host: we have been talking this morning with the cohosts of the fulcrum podcast "vital signs of democracy.". debilyn molineaux and david riordan. thank you.

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