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eight participants are and they are in apple credible order -- in africa -- in alphabetical order. we are joined by the director of debate that the university of michigan. welcome to the program. i want to ask you the question that we are asking the audience, do debate still matter? guest: definitely, maybe not as much as they did a few decades ago the last couple elections have been close -- ago. the last couple elections have been close. while they are less undecided these days, they tune in -- these are good opportunities for

candidates to make their closing arguments or at least introduce them so severe audience. -- to the audience. host: how much does the debate focused on policy issues as opposed to candidates attacking each other and getting one-liners in? guest: a used to be more policy-based several decades ago when they started but the recent cycles have gotten more aggressive and zingers are these pre-attack lines and they have gotten more popular because they are viral and create their own media cycle so there is incentive for candidates to use them. we will see more of a policy debates and there are important issues like ukraine, abortion, spending, a lot of things that,

given that he is not there, i think you will see that and we saw that in 2016 when former president trump did the -- did not -- attend a debate in iowa and it was substance filled. host: what has changed historically about debates? guest: the ratings have declined. they used to be like a super low ratings and i think we are expecting less tonight given trop's absent. talk about zingers -- you talked about zingers. these are great opportunities for the overseas to give -- for the candidates to give -- there is a cycle that can go all the way to march of 2024 and the qualification materials will increase so they have become the light of campaigns.

candidates that did not qualify this time may totally end their campaigns. we will see them on different networks and platforms. there used to be a few major networks and sometimes -- i think we will see interesting questions from the audience. the public has become more involved in the debate as technology take -- changed. host: former president trump will not be there, is that an advantage or disadvantage to the eight candidates? guest: it is a mixed bag because they have to run for him to be the republican nominee. he is a major -- he has a major league but his absence gives them an opportunity to shine and gives them time. he often sucks the local oxygen in the room and disproportionately -- if you were to show up, you probably

would have gotten 45 minutes of questions to himself alone so without that equation, there will be more time for people to get biographies of themselves. make the case on why they should be the republican nominee. they have to take advantage of the opportunity. maybe see increase in the polls and get rid of the titans, trump may come back to the debate stage. if others gain momentum and the race narrows, he has to prove himself. host: what do you think the challenges are that faces the moderators tonight? guest: the biggest challenge is what will in the debate trump should play even though he is in the. in 2016, he skipped the debate, the moderators did a job -- a

great job of -- on not focusing greatly on trump. the rest of the debate,, his name wasn't brought up. it will be interesting to see whether things pulled closely because his lead is larger than it was at that time. you have to ask about things like the multiple criminal indictments, if someone else won the election, when they pardon him? the question is, how long does the shadow loom over the debate? in some ways, it makes sense that it is not very much. there has to be a cost of not attending the debate, the others showed up so they should get the vast majority of the questions so it will be interesting to see what the moderators do because there is an incentive for them to involve trump considering he

brings more eyeballs to the television. we will see how they handle it. they are prepared. they had a few day head starts. host: it is overall -- over a year before the next actual election, do you think people are paying attention? how much do you think they are paying attention at this point? guest: it is a great time for the opening debate, same thing in cleveland in 2015, some -- summer is ending and school is starting usually the first debate, there is the most interest. we haven't had a presidential debate in several years and people are returning to work and looking to become involved and a lot of voters are on the fence and don't know much about the candidates there so it is historically probably going to

be the most interested and most watched debate. they may give other campaigns a second look but this is of great time as we get to the fall and they were days approaching when voters tune in -- and labor day is approaching when voters tune in. we do a lot of stuff with academic debates after student -- with the students at the university of michigan and there is a lot of overlap. the same criteria the -- criteria i would use -- do they come in prepared? if they got a question that they were not ready for, how do they answer it off the top of their head with critical thinking? the same criteria in the academic space we use for political ones and the reason

why the debates are so popular because they are a great job interview for the president of the united states, commander in chief and people want to see how other candidates prepare. if there is an emergency phone call, operating in this environment with skilled speakers that are smart will show them what it is like so it is a great test ground on how they would operate with important situations. host: it is always the conversation about who won the debate. what are your thoughts on that and if that is even the right question? guest: that kind of horse race mate -- mentality in posix has become more popular. it has to be asked. since trump chose not to participate, somewhat will have to win and it will increase the mode -- momentum for the

campaign. . it is not about who won or lost, it is how they handle the issues and how does it portend for them being a president. it is a microcosm of the overall campaign. it provides momentum and may increase fundraising. free media and it is part of a package of one -- running for president. it is a great springboard. you want to look behind the winning and losing and to how this will translate into governing. the country is divided. it is a great opportunity for people not just to introduce themselves but also show positive forward-looking vision. something that -- a little bit so this is a great opportunity for that. host: what will you we watching for -- be watching for? guest: i -- it is interesting to see what will trouble plate and looking at the other candidates there.

for governor ron desantis, everyone will look at him. every time the front runner is not there, the attention goes to number two and he had a rocky run in the campaign but this is a great opportunity for him to see how he handles several people attacking him. that will be interesting. some lesser-known candidates, governor burgum, h a hutchison and others --asa hutchinson and others. will they be able to participate in future debates and use this debate as an opportunity to springboard going forward? it will be fascinating and trump not being there at an interesting namic -- and trump not being there creates an interesting dynamic. host: we are taking your calls on the question, do presidential candidate debates matter and our phone lines are yes and no.

yes, (202) 748-8000, no (202) 748-8001. and will start with steve in san jose -- we will start with steve in san jose. caller: i would like to start out the program by boiling it down to the crux of the matter. i am going to suggest something. it is applicable to the debate at we are going to witness in a few hours but it is especially applicable to the presidential debate that we are going to witness maybe in a year or so. this has never been suggested before. generally, we have two moderators in a debate. those that