we will keep watching the polls but we won't be able to watch the candidates on stage if they don't register in the polls. this is pittsburgh, independent, good morning. caller: good morning, i agree with the 91-year-old. i am registered as an independent but now, i am really disappointed in the republican party. ♪ in fact, the debate, i wouldn't host: good morning, it's even watch it because they showed me who they are when they thursday, august 24, 2023. a republican candidates squared off last night in the first talked about santos for senate republican debate. and this man lied about everything. to watch their debate, i

the gop front runner donald wouldn't believe the thing they trump did not appear. would say. if you watch their pattern when the spotlight will be a firmly on the former president as he is expected to surrender and they do things like when they authorities in fulton county, put judges in, they turned georgia booked on more than a around they claimed obama dozen criminal charges related to the 2020. shouldn't put a judge in at the last minute but they threw one our phone lines are open to hear in one month before. from you. they have a habit of doing that. we are split by political they say one thing you shouldn't parties, republicans at (202) 748-8001, democrats (202) do and then they do the other and i am so disappointed in them 748-8000s, independent (202) for standing behind trump. i believe the people following 748-8002. trump, i think a lot of them like the fact they can have you can also send us a text at (202) 748-8003. their guns and they don't have please include your name and where you are from but otherwise to have regulations. he does a lot of things that you can reach us on social they agree with. media. even businesses, businesses can get away with a lot and the a very good thursday morning to you. rich, of course they will like him. you can start calling in now. here is the usa today wrap up. from what i'm seeing, i am so disappointed in the republican party like all of them and they

stood behind that insurrection with trump. that finished me with the republican party. host: this is luanne out of columbus, nebraska, republican. did you watch the debate last night? caller: i just wanted to comment on how i don't believe in elections anymore. that was usa today. here are some other headlines i support donald trump. about last night's debate. i think there is one sided justice right now. hunter biden and joe biden have done shady stuff that they are not -- there is no criminal charges or anything. host: are you not going to vote in the primary or general election? caller: i'm going to vote although i will vote for donald trump. that's some of the wrap up of last night's debate. host: lou, highland park, this was one of those moments last night in which the former president came up as a question

from the moderator. illinois, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning, i think this was about an hour into the debate. there is a lot of evidence that chris christie launched into the former president and here is trump watches a lot of television. some of his comments. from what i understand, he was [video clip] >> whether or not you believe watching the insurrection on tv the criminal charges are right or wrong, the conduct is beneath what did he do? he kept watching tv but he did not call in the army or the the office of president of the national guard. united states. [applause] i could never vote for men like that. >> and, you know, this is the it's obvious his lack of action aided the insurrection. great thing about this country -- host: this is can in washington, free speech is allowed but it does not change the truth. host: chris christie last night west virginia, republican, good morning. did you watch the debate? caller: hi, i would like to make at that presidential debate a few comments. hosted by fox news. it was in milwaukee, wisconsin. when a republican gets there, you seem to kind of sidetracked the eight candidates were there on the debate stage in the former president sat down with them and start asking them tucker carlton, the former fox questions but when the democrat is on there, you run -- let them news host on x.

it was a recorded, extended run on. can i ask you a few questions? interview about 45 minutes. host: sure, go ahead. [video clip] >> why aren't you at the fox caller: do you like paying five news debate in milwaukee? >> many people have asked me and dollars per gallon of gas? many people said you shouldn't do you like doing to grocery do them and you see the polls stores and paying $100 for three and i'm leading by 50 or 60 bags of groceries? points and some of them are at 1 do you like escorting your and zero and 2 and i wonder mother to places because you should i sit there for an hour were afraid she might get or two and get harassed by knocked in the head? joseph r biden, our enabler in people who shouldn't even be running for president? should i be doing that? chief, is controlled by hunter biden, his son, his junkie son. and a network that is not particular frankly to me. how ridiculous is that? they were backing ron desantis like crazy in that they've given up on him, he's a lost cause. the extremists, they support it reminded me very much of 2016 anything and everything. when i went through the same stuff. i had to fight them all away and the extremist is make e they became friendly after right one. americaffed up again. i just -- after i won. host: coming up on 7:30 a.m. on i thought it would be appropriate not to do this of the east coast.

debate. if you are leading by 50 or 60 we are talking about last night's first presidential and 1.70 points, why am i doing debate of the 2024 cycle and the it? i will have eight or 10 people republican debate was hosted by fox news in milwaukee. we are getting your reactions to however many it is but these that but also what is happening people will be screaming at me. today with donald trump not at the debate last night but he all of which i love answering will be in fulton county, georgia today to turn himself but it doesn't make sense to do. in. i took a pass. host: the former president there is the jail facility there donald trump onx with tucker in fulton county, georgia. he is facing 13 charges related carlton. that interview was downloaded to racketeering and conspiracy involving the 2020 election, some 100 million times in the expected to turn himself in first four hours after it was sometime around 6 p.m. eastern released. perhaps today and be the former president talked fingerprinted and have a mug set about the phone numbers. taken and several codefendants here is the latest polling. in that same case have already turned himself in. rudy giuliani himself in this paul had donald trump up by yesterday and several others. 40 points as the presidential we expect the former president later this evening. pick of republicans, 52 said that is a live shut there and we that ron desantis had 27 and will hear from you after -- that is a live shot there and we will

ramaswamy coming in of part hear from you after that. we expect that around 6 p.m. you can watch that here on third. nikki haley was on last night at 3% in tim scott, the senator c-span online or the free c-span from south carolina at 4% and now video app. that yahoo! news pole. back to the republican line, we can go through more of that this is joe in connecticut. but we mostly want to hear from you this morning and get your did you wash last night's reaction to that debate last debate? caller: yes, i did. night and what will happen today host: what did you think? in fulton, georgia. caller: it was ok, i know who i will vote for. the former president is expected host: can i ask who you will to show up sometime around 6 p.m. eastern tonight. there is a picture of the fulton vote for? caller: you have to ask me? county were some of the there is only one man that can defendants have already been straighten out this country, only one. charged in this case have come and be processed and the reason why i called is a fingerprinted and had their mugshots taken. feel so sorry for these people that keep calling you and that's expected to happen around telling you that biden is doing the best he can. 6 p.m. tonight for the former president, donald trump. you can watch that on c-span he's doing the best he can come he doing a great job and they later today. keep talking about this (202) 748-8003 republicans, insurrection. for two years, cities were burned and people were killed. democrats, -- republicans (202)

748-8001, (202) 748-8000 police officers were killed and nobody did anything. they encouraged it but they keep democrats and independents. talking about three hours of (202) 748-8002. insurrection which was not even in insurrection. did you watch last night's debate? caller: i did it and issa nikki i keep watching c-span. haley was a shining star of last it's like watching msnbc and night i just want to say that as cnn. far as donald trump being you should ask these people when they call you and tell me what charged today, i think it is is biden doing that so great. poetic justice that excluding he's been accused of bribes. people from his property, there is a story of him evicting an you haven't spoken about it at all. older black woman from her apartment. you don't keep -- all you do is keep talking about how -- you don't keep talking about how great trump is. he thought black people were you should talk about the men in powerless in this society and i think it's poetic justice that a office now and you should show it. host: this is bradley in west black woman is the one who is virginia, line for democrats, good morning. charging him and bringing him to caller: good morning. justice yet again for the fourth time. i'm a vietnam veteran, 74 years old in this country has gone to

you know what. also, a black da from manhattan the main reason is the was the first person to indict individual that first talk from u.s. president. maryland and the other lady from i think today, it's poetic maryland and two ladies from justice and i look forward to pennsylvania, they need to go to the doctor and get some medicine to get their head straight. him having to come in like any host: what do you think? other person to face the law. caller: well, i thought it was i hope that black prosecutors real good debate. and lawyers will use this ricoh to go after systems that fund they all like to run everything down. just like i said, you need to think about how much money, i the prison industrial complex and lock up black and brown bodies. said i was a veteran, they sold prosecutors, attorneys and this country out for billions of investigators who suppress evidence to railroad black dollars and they're not doing a people to go to jail. dad burn thing and i'm a veteran i hope they employ that rico and demo -- and i've been a statute to go after them and democrat since i was 18 years criminally make all of these old and i'm probably going to state officials criminally change my politics before the liable toward misconduct. election because it's pitiful host: this is stan in florida, what's going on. good morning. caller: how are you doing? i commend the other guy from west virginia, talking about the

i want to remind people that fox price of everything. news had to pay $270 million it's ungodly and we don't have to be like that. we can be self-sufficient but we about lying about the voting machines. they don't even -- they didn't are paying these other countries for our stuff. even show the january 6 these democrats need to wake up especially before i was talking appearance. everything goes off. about because it is. you talk about hunter biden or i will vote for trump in jail donald trump or joe biden, those for the simple reason he will do officers were beaten with sticks something for america, not for the party. host: the topic of ukraine came and over the head with bricks. donald junior said he is coming up in the debate last night. for you. host: did you watch last caller: caller: night's debate? i watched a little bit. one of those moments was they are nonunion and want to take it with public schools. carolina governor nikki haley going after ramaswamy for his i've got five relatives in the public schools. they want all charges but my answer to that question. [video clip] >> ukraine is the first line of kids are in public schools and defense for us. the problem that he doesn't they want charter schools. that's all they want, they want understand is he wants to hand ukraine to russia and let china

to take away union rights and i eat taiwan and wants to stop funding israel. am a joe biden supporter. you don't do that to friends. you watch what will happen when you have the backs of your they go back. host: stacy in waldorf, friends and ukraine is a front line of defense. vladimir putin has said once russia takes ukraine, the maryland, line for republicans, good morning. caller: i watched the debate baltics our next. we are trying to prevent war. last night and it was a complete sham. look at what vladimir putin did host: watch your language but i today. when i was at the u.n., the want to hear what you have to say. russian investor suddenly died. caller: sorry, it was complete this guy is a murderer and you are choosing a murderer over a chaos. friend. everybody was talking over [applause] everybody and when they chimed in on trump, it was like a feeding frenzy. >> you have 30 seconds. everybody except for one or two >> congratulations to your wanted to slam trump and i don't think trump should have been brought up. the bottom line is he's facing future on the boards of lockheed and raytheon. what is facing and let's let the you've been pushing this lie all week. >> you want to defend israel? court deal with it. for us to be focused on what [applause] will happen to him, we are not >> i will address each of those hearing what these other right now.

candidates want to bring to the table. host: one of the previous there you have it. >> you have no foreign policy callers said nikki haley was the shining star last night. experience. how do you think she did? caller: i think she did really [applause] host: nikki haley and ramaswamy good, i honestly did and there's nothing wrong with having a strong woman up there. last night on the stage in i think it's time for that. milwaukee. nikki haley making reference to i'm not a fan of chris christie. this news yesterday out of russia -- i don't see anybody as a strong candidate for me. she did really good last night. host: did they spend too much time on trump last night? it was about an hour until the donald trump question came up and when ron desantis said he wanted to look forward, one of the moderators said we should talk about trump, he's leading in the polls right now. caller: i mean -- i do agree we need to look forward. i voted for trump and i'm a huge trump fan.

i don't agree with what's happening to him. i think the timing of it all. is the suspect people are saying he was the this is andre, weatherford cause and he incited the violence. it's crazy to have a media texas, independent, you are next. caller: i appreciate it. i watched the debate last night. always twist the words he spoke. he said we will peacefully go down there. everybody was trying to get their word in and the moderators didn't moderate and let everybody talk over everybody. charlottesville, he said there were people on both sides that were good and he said it. you are a moderator, you're not i'm not referring to the white a newspaper reporter that will supremacy but the media ran with write stories. that. it's it like a smear campaign. i really do. some of these people they said host: the former president in appear and they think hunter that interview with tucker carlsen onx had plenty of biden is running for president. he didn't put his name in. comments for the media. here is more of what he had to say last night. [video clip] >> msnbc or as they say msbnc, people need to check the fact. i am an independent but i lean democratic. when the republicans come in and it's so wrong what they write they leave office, unemployment

and what they do and what they say. is high, inflation is high and our economy is on the down great. it's corrupt news. when the democrats come back in somehow that doesn't play as and like when bush left, obama nicely that is corrupt news. you have msnbc you have cnn had 10% unemployment and when he left it was 4.6%. who's absolutely doing no if the republicans are so happy ratings at all. that donald trump brought it they are doing then because they down, but obama brought it to don't have credibility. fox's way down as you know. the good old days are long ago. 4.6% from 10%. i will say this -- it could come look at what biden is done with back but they just don't have a job creation and his 2.5 years lot of credibility, you know that perhaps better than anybody. compared to the jobs trump lost. i think it was a terrible move host: to our republican line, getting rid of you, number one on television and all of a sudden, you are doing this baltimore, maryland, good morning. caller: good morning thanks for interview using this crazy forum. taking my call. the debate is probably our competition. host: some 100 million views of host: we will work on that phone that interview.

it was about a 45 minute line because it's hard to hear interview. you. speaking of posts, we are let me go to perth amboy, new jersey, good morning. looking for your social media post this morning to get your caller: good morning. reaction on last night's debate my first time calling. and your thoughts on what will i watched the debate last night. happen today in fulton county, georgia when the former president is expected to go down i feel anyone who can stand up and be fingerprinted and have his mug shot taken and processed there and protect donald trump in fulton county, georgia to of what he did should not be a answer the latest indictment. president. it's the fourth indictment and 14 criminal charges facing the former president in that indictment. that's my feeling this morning. host: this is st. louis, 91 criminal charges if you combine them among the four indictments. missouri, republican, did you watch last night? caller: how are you doing this social media posts from our viewers talk about last night's morning? debate -- and want some truth to come here. the true facts are that donald and this is surely in pennsylvania, trump did call in the national guard. we know he was in charge of the police department and in charge

of the capitol police. nancy pelosi and then refused to call the national guard. we know that is a fact now. i follow this very closely, there were no just there were more millionaires, people became richer under joe biden in two years then four years under trump. these are true facts. trump did call the national guard. they refused, the democratic party refused the national democrat, good morning. caller: yes, good morning and guard. and there is a video that nancy thank you for taking my call. this is my first time calling. pelosi's daughter is in that a i watched a little bit of the debate last night. guy copied or a guy made and why i couldn't hardly watch it so i her daughter was speaking. just turned it off. it was awful. she said this was a set up. my question is these polls. now we have to figure out how to i don't understand that you are get the people out of jail that

saying or even donald trump is were part of the set up. host: during the debate last saying he is at 70% in the night, ron desantis had polls. p nobody everolled me and i questions about generally six. if we focus on january 6, that asked my friend if they ever got a call. focus on the election, that's they said no. what democrats want in 2024 and where is all this polling coming from? republicans might lose. what you think of that statement? i am a staunch democrat. caller: i believe trump right now is ahead of joe biden. i always will be i think joe biden is doing a marvelous job. i also believe more people are waking up every day realizing he's doing the best he can for this country. how important trump was as the president of the united states the people in the united states of america have to start getting and not as a politician. it is easy to put people in jail together and getting along with one another. i've been through many presidential elections and the that are not politicians and trump is not a politician. problem with our country anymore is donald trump. he is the one dividing people in i go back to that one lady who said trump made people rich and that's not true. this country and we have to get back to where we were long ago. i am 91 years old and i went the taxes for corporations, in

through many presidential elections. 2016, i got a check back from this is absolutely ridiculous the way the republicans are the irs because i overpaid in acting. host: the polls important corporate taxes because republicans lowered the corporate tax that helped me by my house. those are true facts. leading up to this debate because one of the criteria to host: these are more comments make the debate stage involves the polls. from social media -- this is the usa today column that lays it out for us --

you can join the conversation on facebook or x and send us a text message at (202) 748-8003 or you can call in like joe did out of pennsylvania, republican, go ahead. caller: i see your focus is going away from the debate last night. people are talking about trump and stuff. i did watch part of it but i don't know if it was from pure excitement or boredom but i fell asleep on the east coast. i didn't see it all but a couple of highlights was chris christie , when he commented, are you there?

host: i'm listening. caller: sorry, chris christie said about the skinny guy in the middle and he referred him to the last time, that was barack obama and he was an amateur and that sounded like thecp when vivec was talking, it sounded like a canned comment. i like the fact that on his feet, coming back with you gave obama a big hug and you helped him get elected. i think that just shows thatvivek i like the way he can think on his feet and the quickness of his mind on that. i don't know if you caught the one where martha macconnell weather was right or wrong, when she made the comment that if you

want a man, as command and if you want something said or you want something done, ask a woman. host: i think nikki haley said that on stage. caller: i thought that was martha macconnell. i'm sorry about that than. anyhow, i will move on to host: what do you think about this headline? caller: i think that has a message to it but i like the idea this may be more about vice presidential auditions. i was really pretty solid that you would have two businessman's such as trump and ramaswamy as

president and then vice president. i think vivek would do a lot and would be out there as a vice president, getting things done and kind of following in trump's footsteps. i'm not sure he would take that position but i think that would boost any republican for a shot. i'm not even sure that trump wants anybody from this group or he would pick somebody as the former secretary of state. i see how the media would tear him apart for picking a black eye but i like tim scott in a way. he had an interview and he gave five reasons why he would be a good president and it was five

things trump had already done. that doesn't really qualify him over trump to be the next president. i thought tim scott had some things but i think he stayed focused on the issues of china plus one thing i would like to say quickly is nikki haley on her argument about the ukraine and supporting ukraine, it was all vladimir putin fault but myself, i find it a little bit odd about biden jumping were quickly ending the war in afghanistan and getting right into a war with the ukraine. when joe biden, someone asked him what would happen if vladimir putin crossed the border and joe biden said what we would have to see what kind of incursion that would be or

what our reaction would be. i think that was a red light plus prudent made it clear he did not want a nato state -- a -- that vladimir putin made it clear he did not want take nato stayed close to his border. they kind of opened the door by pushing nato toward -- ukraine toward nato. host: this is the wolverine state, randall, independent. caller: yes, good morning. i was quite disappointed with the lack of vision of the republican party as it has to do with geopolitical issues. it left me with the impression that only president biden has vision of what is unfolding. he has referred to this as the new world order but i don't agree but the strategy the president has taken in achieving that new world order, i was

disappointed that there was no discussion on that. there is a recent comment the united states is their number one enemy in light the fact the united states president biden is considering transferring $4 billion in oil revenues back to iran at a time when iran has called for the destruction of the state of israel. in other words, i didn't hear anyone, nikki haley got close, i think the policy that's in place will lead america into world war iii. other theologians would refer to this as armageddon. president biden has referred to nuclear armageddon. host: you talk about the comments from iran saying we're the number one enemy. who is eric number one enemy do you think? caller: when you get to the

outskirts of what's going on, it is china. china's aggression, they had made clear that their vision is a one china policy which if you backtrack, it goes all the way back to its approach. now today, it's taiwan. another hotspot that is close to exploding, president xi of china has made it clear that he's made it clear that he does not support taiwan's ambition to become, the issue is self-determination which, if you backtrack to russia's military operation, it was a question of self-determination. the united nations itself embraces its cardinal law in its

charter but it dish it did not get brush of ability to establish what greater autonomy is for the two republics in the donbas region. before zelinski, the president had started negotiations under the minsk -- under the minsk agreement recognize the russian argument which is those two republics having the inherent right of self-determination. host: on ukraine, the topic came up on the debate stage in milwaukee. ukraine also came up in that conversation between tucker carlsen former president donald trump. here is a little bit of their discussion. [video clip] >> you're supposed to be getting out of -- getting us out of that horrible war that we are involved in with russia and ukraine.

you could do that very easily. i don't believe he can do it because he is incompetent. that's a war that should end immediately, not because of one side or the other but because hundreds of thousands of people are being killed. can you imagine you're in an apartment house and rockets are going into that building and blowing it up and knocking it down? why should anybody, it's got to be stopped and it can be stopped easily. if i were president, it would have never started. host: former president donald trump last night and that conversation with tucker carlsen. that was released right at the start time of the republican debate that took place in milwaukee. the debate went about two hours last night and there is plenty of commentary in today's papers about winners and losers from last night. you can make up your own mind.

here is some of what's being written about this --

i want to get your thoughts this morning with about 15 minutes left. we will talk about it our program today. if you don't get a chance to call in, you will have more

opportunities today. this is brian out of massachusetts, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. i couldn't watch the debate and i couldn't find it on basic cable. a few comments, i keep hearing people say you guys are biased and you asked these questions. c-span is totally unbiased. you let people speak. another thing, the gentle man from west virginia, the vietnam veteran who is going to vote for trump in prison, it's funny that people down south and brace from new york -- embrace someone from new york where or people and people less means have suffered from him and i'm proud of

service members a put their lives out there forever country. we all just have to get along, that's all, thank you. host: salmon mississippi, lying to republicans, good morning. caller: i watched the debate last night because i'm a ron desantis supporter but i'm a little disappointed. he couldn't talk because of the skinny guy. i thought chris christie was thought i -- was what i thought he would be, attacking trump and nikki haley did a good job and i think mike pence did a good job. irregardless, whoever the nominee is, joe biden is a disaster. i am tickled about these people

who support joe biden and everybody knows he hasn't been a good president. he hasn't responded to what he needed to respond to like in maui and the other thing that happened in the united states. i'm amazed that people are like that. then people talk about the people down south, not everybody down south supports trump. host: on ron desantis, one other column about last night's debate -- i want to get your thoughts on this.

caller: i agree with what nikki haley said. just census is the primary competition for trump -- desantis is the primary competition for trump. the democrats and the department of justice, they say what they are doing to him is purely political. i think he will be in jail. i don't think he will be the nominee. i think desantis is the nominee. i don't think biden will be there. i think he will assume room temperature before the event runs for a second term.

probably that clown in california will be the nominee for the democratic party. host: back to the mountaineer state, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. if you allow me, i've got a couple of things i'd like to speak about. i am a coalminer at of mate one west virginia. in the history books, it's considered the town m that's historical for theatewan massacre and my wife is a professional schoolteacher. i. watched the debate last night i was somewhat disappointed that they did not recognize the working-class people. they seem to get down on unions and education.

we are the people and the backbone the built this country. first of all, trump came to appalachia. he had a big rally and he had his coalminer sat on and he said he was for jobs, jobs, jobs and you will get jobs, your kids and grandkids. they were tearing down preparation plans and shutting down coal mines. then when biden came along as president, he put the infrastructure built in. bill in. we had to have coal for these highways and bridges. many had to be replaced and it takes coal to make steel and there is more call running now than there has in the past seven

years. i just want the people to know out there that it's working and it's not just the union and enjoying their holidays and vacations. think of the ones that gave their sweat and tears and everything. if you vote for a republican, and i watched the debate and they were anti-worker. if you are antiunion, you are antiunion, your anti-worker. the working guys and gals are the ones that keep the coal fires burning for all of us. host: you said you watched the debate and you are a coalminer. i wonder what you think about starting that debate with the oliver anthony song, rich men north of richmond. one lyric is i wish politicians

would look out more for miner s. what you think about starting the debate with that song? caller: it's great. it hit me right in the heart. that's the heart and soul of america. that's what america is all about. we all need a piece of the pie. we not asking to be rich, just to survive and have a living for families. we are just like everyone else. host: denise out of california, about five minutes left in this segment. line for republicans, go ahead. caller: thank you so much. first of all, i always considered myself by political.

because of the way things are, it kind of made me be a republican. it made me pick sides. all of you people that are absolutely against trump, i want to ask you one question. if you woke up one morning and you found out, can you hear me? host: yes, ma'am. caller: if you woke up one morning and you found out that he was actually not the bad guy, what would you do? what if you found out that all of the people against trump work actually the bad guys? what would you do? just let that sit on the back burner. that's all i have to say. host: this is leeann on facebook

-- a few more minutes for your comments and calls. earning is waiting in the keystone state, independent, good morning. caller: good morning, everybody. let me start with that quote from william casey. this information campaign is successful when everything americans believe is false.

why are we regurgitating what these same retreads on all the time on the debate as they all belong to the same kabbalah. george carlin used to say that it's a big club and we are not in it. why are we fighting each other over who said what and who is right and wrong? they are all part of the same dog and pony show. wake up, we got problems. you always talk about russia and china. we own them. 70,000 american manufacturers in china. if we want to do damage to them, we would pull out. host: who is not part of the same dog and pony show as you describe it? caller: the one you see on tv. they are part of the masonic kabbalah. host: we go to florida,

democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. my goodness. you all have your hands full when you have these people calling in. the lady that called up and said what would you do if you woke up and found out -- you don't have to wake up because you hear about donald trump in his mess and what he has done to this country. he is the reason we are divided. he stoked up the racial doings and he has just ruined this country. i am giving having battles with my own son. it's family against family. it's people against people. donald trump is a criminal and the sooner these people wake up and see what he has done,

hopefully, it will be better. thank you for letting me talk. host: last call in this segment is barber in texas, republican. caller: good morning. i want to talk about willis as the da in the trump case. host: we've got about a minute or so left. do you have any thoughts on the arraignment today? caller: yes, why is willis using the ricoh law when it supposed to be used for going after mob bosses and murderers killing and gangs? host: i think we got your point in the easiest thing to do is for you to turn your tv down. you will be able to hear the conversation through your phone. that does it for this first

segment of the "washington journal." plenty more to talk about and up next, we will be joined by the senior fellow of the american enterprise institute, tim cardin and we will talk about the debate and the arraignment of donald trump. then we will discuss the sueme court decision that struck down president biden's debt relief program. part of our series looking back at the most recent term of the supreme court. sick around. we will be right back. ♪ >> book tv, every sunday on c-span two, features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. at:30 p.m. eastern, former

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at 11:00 a.m. eastern on c-span, c-span now our mobile video app or online at c-span.org. >> washington journal continues. host: happy to welcome tim carney back, c-span viewers know him as the senior political commentator at the washington examiner. other than the debate starting to late last night, what did you think of the debate? guest: it was exciting, revealing, surprising. the main thing that surprised me was that nikki haley performed better. i have seen her speak and she is often wouldn't and super scripted, but in this case she seemed to be on her toes. she had sharp critiques of vivek ramaswamy, who is leading the polls of the people on that stage. the other surprise was tim

scott, i thought he underperformed. this was his first time on a big stage. his run for senate but never any really tight election in south carolina. some of these are great speakers and good senators but their first time on the big stage they underperform. that was tim scott. host: he did not grab debate time enough, it is easy to get lost. guest: he did not grab the time or to distinguished himself. he talked a lot about god and his faith, and reasserting that these days is important to do. they are all running against donald trump and a lot of them did not talk like it. scott particularly had a couple of opportunities when he was asked about january 6, later when he started by saying the president needs to be somebody who reflects they values of the country, these were opportunities for him to

critique the real republican front runner and he backs down. host: did the fundamental dynamics of this publican nomination change? guest: i don't see it with the same eyes as the average viewer. if i could guess, nikki haley made herself more of a force in this race. that would be the primary change. the fact that donald trump is still where the polls, he is way ahead in the iowa and new hampshire polls, and for that reason, that has not changed. but who's going to be the primary challenger, i think nikki haley established herself as a contender. host: can or should donald trump keep skipping debates? guest: i kind of hit that question. i understand why you asked. the only part of the tucker carlsen donald trump then last night i watched is why he was skipping.

it was entirely self-serving. he never said i don't think republican voters are going to learn from this or this is not a productive way -- who said there is nothing in it for me. the answer gave, that was his answer. i think he should at least pretend to care about public interest and in that answer he said what is in it for me? host: we will play the answer. >> why are you not at the debate in milwaukee? >> a lot of people have been asking me that. many people said you shouldn't do it, you see the polls,, i'm leading by 50 and 60 points, some of them are 1, 0, 2. to sit there for an hour, two hours, get harassed by people who should not even be running

for president, should not be doing that, at a network that is not particularly friendly to me. they were backing ron de sanctimonious and now he is a lost cause. romania 2016. the became very friendly after i won. i thought it would be more important not to do the debate. if you are leading by 50, 60, one pole i was leading by 70 points, i'm saying why my doing it? i'm going to have eight or 10 people on the debate, i don't have any, but all of these people screaming at me, showing questions -- which i love doing but it doesn't exist. so i've taken a pass. host: former president trump with tucker carlson, interview

released on x. he said it reminds him of 2016. guest: what is funny is the 2016 debate catapulted him to the lead and it was very revealing to commentators, what they were looking for. the main thing he did was establish himself as the big dog in the park. if somebody criticized him, he would punch back twice as hard. that served his aggressiveness and that is what the republican base was looking for after nominating nice guys like robbie, john mccain, bob dole, george w. bush. the biggest thing you saw on the stage, there were a lot of people who realized last night in the republican debate that the republican party is different today than it was in 2015 before trump came on stage. foreign policy is telling. before trump came on the stage,

republican party leadership was all very aggressive, build up the military, be aggressive overseas, and trump showed the republican leadership that the republican base is a lot less like that. the ukraine question highlighted that, there is an interesting bait on republican foreign policy. last night reflected it. host: what do you think about the decision to wait an hour before the trump questions,? guest: i like getting into policy matters. that is one way in which the debate can be most informative. we should ask what is our job? not just to provide entertainment but to drive debate. they take it seriously. where do these people stand? so starting with that instead of

with trump i thought was a good decision. i'm glad they asked about trump. i was sad almost all of the candidates dodged it. they explained why they would be better. host: tim carney on the washington examiner, chris christie said that trump's behavior was beneath the dignity of the office. guest: he began by saying whether or not you think he should be charged, georgia and new york, the federal cases, all of the actions underlying these charges reflect life dust why he should not be the president. the new york case refers to hush money pay to a foreign actress he had had an affair with, that is a weak criminal case. the argument is weak. on the other hand, do we want a president who had an affair and

paid hush money to cover it up and had his campaign lawyer do it? the georgia case i'm not convinced they were actual crimes. it could be politics that -- and the efforts to control georgia politicians to overturn the outcome does not -- so you don't have to agree to dust with the prosecution to agree that the behavior reflects poorly on trump. host: the front page of the washington post has the mugshot of rudy giuliani taken yesterday. he answered the charges, was think bridget, we are expecting this to happen with the former president today. it's are you expecting the donald trump mugshot on the front page of every paper? guest: it is entertainment. the telling thing on this,

donald trump ran in 2016 saying lock her up, one of the most common chance at republican events. at the republican convention, it was reporting on the floor that the chant was used repeatedly. one thing that upset democrats and the news media was that it seemed so undemocratic and harsh, lacking in compassion to cheer for your political enemies to go to jail. now, since trump came into office and the fbi, robert muller started investigating him, which proved to be nothing, the desire to see political enemies locked up, the joy at seeing the rudy giuliani mugshot, reflects to me that the democratic base has become, in 2024, what the republican base was in 2016. thirsting for the bad guys to go to jail. host: coverage of former president trump answering tse

charges in fulton county. we will have this on c-span aroundix clock p.m., we are expecting it around that time. c-span.org is where you can watch the free c-span video app. the next half-hour, with tim carney of the american enterprise institute. numbers to call in, 202, 748, -- the numbers to call for democrats, (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, independent (202) 748-8002. tom, republican line. caller: good morning. i think donald trump would get the nomination whether he was in jail or not. these cases, aldo dershowitz has no these cases down pretty well.

it is all to try to defame the president. the main thing i want to remind everybody else is that the dossier that was used to create a false intelligence investigation against donald trump and was leaked to try to keep them from being the president in 20 16. then the hunter biden laptop, the fbi knew was legitimate and allowed the democratic party to impeach the president over phone calls to ukraine regarding be crime family. that was covered up by the fbi and they worked with twitter and facebook to keep it off of the internet so that biden could become the president. host: i think i got your point. guest: the point that tom is making, i'm not going to agree with all of your conclusions, but it is certainly true that the people in power in this

country have done a lot to fritter away the trust they have been invested in. it's -- and the justice department under the biden administration is an example. the example i point to is the pro-life activist in philadelphia or outside of it had gotten involved in a scuffle outside of the abortion clinic a couple of years back and they thought about bringing chargers and they dropped it. the biden justice department launched an expedition to look for any pro-lifer who had ever had a run-in with the lawn see if they could bring federal charges against them and they did. they showed up at the house in front of his children and arrested him, and they lost the case which was horrible. that was politicization of the justice apartment that has happened under biden and an

example of facebook and twitter deciding there isn't really a hunter biden laptop, anybody who post about it is going to get canceled from the platform. what gets called disinformation today turns out to be true tomorrow. they got the justice department these big tech companies using their power in ways that really look like they are just of their political views. when there are voters like tom who say i think all of the charges against tom rbs, it is hard to blame them because of how much these people have frittered away their credibility. host: an extended amount of questions on the pro-life issues last night. a key issue in the republican primary. this is about one minute from the discussion last night about whether candidates would support the national abortion ban. >> nikki, you are my friend but consensus is the opposite of leadership. we want to return this question

to the american people, they did not send it to the states only. it is not a states only issue, it is a moral issue. and as president of the united states, they reckon people will have a champion for life in the oval office. can't we have a minimum standard in every state in the nation that says when a baby is capable of feeling pain, and abortion cannot be allowed? a 15 week been desk ban is supported by 70% of the megan people. it will take unapologetic leadership. -- american people. crisis pregnancies, i will do that as president. >> i will say it is in the hands of the people and that is where it should be. when you're talking about a federal ban, be honest with you megan people. we have not had 45 pro-life senators and over 100 years. no republican president can ban

abortion any more than a democrat president can ban all of those state laws. don't make women feel like they have to decide on this issue when you know we don't have 60 senate votes in the house. host: tim carney. guest: there's a lot going on here and it is often misunderstood by the media who reports on it. these two has to do pretty well. the bottom line is that roe v. wade took abortion out of not just the states but congress. when dobbs came in and it down roe v. wade, and returned the issue of abortion, like the issue of gun control, minim wage, etc., to the political realm both on the federal and the state level. a lot of republican responses to eight, lindsey graham from south carolina, might support what pence calls the minimum standard, that on a federal level, after 15 weeks abortion will be outlawed except in cases like rape, incest and severe

threat to the physical health of the mother. the states could more restrictive. 95% of abortions are in the first 15 weeks. so the 5% of later abortions would need to have one of these exemptions in order to be legal. if florida wanted to outlaw it at six weeks when the baby has a heartbeat, florida can do that. but new york obviously would not pass any restrictions. but it would still be illegal after 15 weeks under this bill. nikki haley's point that you probably don't have the majority of the senate or the super majority to overcome a filibuster is also true. to get 60 votes in the u.s. senate to pass this bill would be difficult. but the idea of setting a minimum, like minimal wage, we have a federal memo wage that is $7.25 -- minimum wage so $7.15 or whatever, and states have it higher. he is proposing that with abortion, every baby protected

at 15 weeks in certain states can pass laws that protect the more. host: the buckeye state, maria, independent. go ahead. caller: yes, why is nobody screaming lock him up? guest: i think a lot of people are saying that. are you talking at republican debaters? again, you had chris christie who said that the charges -- whether or not you agree with the federal and state charges against donald trump, they certainly reflect poorly on him. they show he's not a good candidate, not a good nominee and will be a good president again is the argument. but to actually say that these are federal crimes, it was distasteful when trump was doing that, a lot of people agree. so the proper response, what the by demonstration says is we want

these cases to go forward. you do have a lot of lock him up the news media, other democratic politicians. but none of the republicans -- not only do they not say lock him up, very few have them even said that donald trump is unfit to be president. they're running against him and they were almost afraid to criticize him. that was most notable thing. host: they want you to talk about vivek ramaswamy, he was winning for the fences, talk about a lot of issues. guest: he is the highest person polling. brand-new to politics and the runner-up in the national polls recently to donald trump. he came out very aggressive, very energetic on ukraine, he is to distinguished himself as drawing a hard line that the u.s. does not have an interest there and we should pull out.

the problem that i see is that he is always trying to give the answer he thinks the audience wants to hear. if you look on leidy could see people putting together him say what the audit monday and opposite thing on a tuesday. that is not a sustainable campaign. mark richards are often wrong but i suspect him to fall in the polls. he is tapping into the zeitgeist but last night i think he introduced himself to a lot of people so he might gain from that. but he did come away with a strong impression of dust you do not come away with it strong impression of our know what this guy stands for. it will be clear he does not send for anything. host: the magnolia state, this is james. caller: i wanted to talk about the dossier and biden's family. i don't really look at that

until i see all of the evidence about it. that his family or anybody else's family have done so they were they should be held to the fullness of the law. i don't believe that the 20 million they are talking about is part of the biden -- they did not show that president biden had anything to do with it. you got $70 million in the state of mississippi -- and you had other people and governors upon the 70 million other politicians are not talking about it. this is why they are talking about president trump, talking about miller, he said he had 10 possible crimes committed but he could cross the line and 10 possible, the republicans talking about suspicions.

host: i think about your point. investigation and the folks leading many into the biden family. guest: the bottom line is that the republicans are trying to make hunter biden's life business reflect on joe biden. it really is ugly, what he did was went ahead, like a lot of people but more so, he used his father's name when his father was a senator and then vice president, the democratic nominee for president, used his father's name to bring in business. he started a lobbying firm with the name biden in the lobbying firm, knowing he would bring in clients because of his father's role as a senator. he founded the lobbying firm with one of joe biden's top fundraisers. to bring together your dad's top fundraiser and bring cash put

your dad's name -- and put your dad's name in it, it is perfectly legal, but he ran a corrupt is peddling for many years and that he brought it overseas. your dad is the vice president, you are bringing born businesses , foreign governments. best interpretation is that he was pretending to sell access to the father. then you have the fact that joe biden said repeatedly again and again my son did nothing wrong. he knows his son is at best pretending to sell access to him and that is fine. that reflects that he is fine with the corruption that hunter is doing. which nobody is proving that hunter was selling access to his father. i have not seen any evidence that joe biden change policies to search his son's lobbying or international crimes, he is playing a corrupt game and even

if legal, joe biden is saying there's nothing wrong with that. host: is that anything dignity of the office? guest: i believe it is. the revolving store stuff at the senate is usually a little more distant. there are tons of republicans whose wives, husbands or sons are lobbyists. but in vice president, his son being an overseas dealmaker, that is the revolving door access game at a higher level than is typical in the u.s.. host: about 15 minutes left with tim carney, senior political economist at the washington examiner. to join the conversation, guest: -- like (202) 748-8001 for republicans, (202) 748-8000 for democrats, and independent,

(202) 748-8002. what time should it start? guest: they want to capture the west coast. that is why they want to start it later, prime time in all four time zones and make up lower 48. but it is too late. a lot of us have to get up in the morning, whether or not we are coming on c-span. i have young kids who have to go to school. a two hour debate ending at 11:00 is too late in the republican debate in particular, 75% of republicans -- republic and delegates of the -- are in the eastern or central time zone. most in the eastern time zone. most are public and primary voters basically are staying up until 11:00 to finish washing this. the average bedtime in the united states is a little before 11:00. fox could just air it at 7:00 p.m. pacific if they wanted to

and everybody can watch it later online. it is cruel and unusual to republican voters to keep it that way. i'm not going to ask for some of the for clinical reporters because nobody likes us. but it is also to us. host: casper, wyoming, beverly, democrat. good morning. caller: these are white-collar crimes and this guy has been around just like trump. people are hurting. the republicans -- i'm sorry, but hunter biden is not going to these things. he is not the president. you are wiping your bootie on the president that is trying his heart to get these peoples minds

off politics. this is all politics and destroying the lives of real people. guest: i will talk about hunter biden in the corruption wash. i've enjoyed every 20 years. i used to be the lobbying editor at the washington examiner. i do think it is corrupting and present. if you want to know why 70 people distrust washington, why trump became president, why people get so angry about politics, it is because they look and see actual corruption in washington. hunter biden's business model was corrupt. how much that reflects on joe biden is a matter of debate. but for people to say it -- and i see this from my other colleagues, hunter biden is a nonstory unless you can prove joe did something for his crimes, i don't buy into that. if my son were selling access to me and i were the vice president, i would tell them to stop and i certainly wouldn't go public and say it is fine. so i don't think it is a

nonissue. i think it matters that people in this town use certain connections to power to enrich themselves. host: do you think we will see a trump-biden debate began? guest: yes. trump could just skip it again. i think he went to a couple of those last time. i think right now his argument is i am 50 points ahead in the polls. he won't be 50 points ahead in the polls against biden. it will be close, probably a little behind, maybe a little ahead. so that won't give him more incentive to participate in the debate. those two, they were old and cranky and crazy a couple of years ago, and now they are both going to be four years older. it will be a sight to behold. host: in indiana, this is deborah, a republican. good morning, did you watch last night? caller: good morning.

yes, i watched it last night. and it's on the weekends, -- we actually talked about moving forward. now this displaced anger that i saw on the stage last night, we are doing it at the bottom. but there is violence because of this. we cannot put all of our anger onto one man. that is not going to work. to some point, the truth is going to have to, so that we can put the gun down, stop fighting -- we want a future to raise our

kids. we don't want -- they have already destroyed hollywood. what do we have to watch, some angry politicians who talk about being president? guest: a five generation picnic for me sounds like the american dream. so hearing about that makes me happy even if there are dark tones. in the last segment you are talking about the viral country song, there's all sorts of question about the meeting -- meeting. the idea that there is something unwell in our culture is what donald trump showed me and a lot of the media more than we understood beforehand. it is not going to be addressed by what these politicians are talking about. it is a cultural ill health.

people don't belong to things, people don't have five generation picnics. people don't go to church as much. all of these things that seem so distant from what these candidates are talking about. people don't have a rotary club, they don't have bowling leagues. it's this is ill health. host: they discussed that, whether america is in decline or in ill health and mike pence saying no, we need a government as good as our people. guest: it is a fine line but it is glossing over the experience of so many people. in my last book, i wrote the experience of summoning people as if they don't have a strong community around them to help them live the life that they want to live. people don't just need to have enough money to put food on the table or the ability to control their own lives. they need to belong to something. and a generation ago, more people belongs to a church, left in a neighborhood where people

knew their neighbors. for mike pence to say our country is fine, it is just the government, he is glossing over the lived experience of a lot of the working class, black, white, hispanic and others in this country. part of trump's success in 2016 and biden in 2020 was saying no, you feel that something is missing and i know that you are right. something is missing, you have lost something valuable. host: alienated america came out in 2019. do have a an expo project? --next book project? guest: yes. my wife and i have six kids. that is not normal. what else are not having babies. the birth rate has fallen to record lows, 1.6 or 1.7 babies per woman. i argue it is not just economics or policy or government. it is largely about culture. we are expected to helicopter our kids all the time or youth sports are being replaced.

we don't see the innate value in human beings. we think we need to get our kid into harvard to make and be good. no, our kids are good no matter what. but our culture is not supporting us in raising kids. i went to israel. it is a procaine family dutch culture. you know they have a housing shortage, they have summoning more babies than any other wealthy country. i'm saying if we can change our culture it will make it easier for parents and more people will get married and have kids. host: six kids, some people might want to know how old you are. guest: i am 45 and my kids are 16 down to six. host: that book, what's it called and what is coming out? guest: family unfriendly. it's coming out next year. harpercollins. were talking earlier about

lobbying, revolving door. the big ripoff of how big business stills or money, the argument is big government, when it intervenes in the economy, regulations, taxes and subsidies, it is helping big business and harming smaller business. for a modern example, you have uber -- facebook lobbying for regulation's of their industry, knowing it will keep out. -- keep out smaller competitors. host: in illinois, republican, john, thanks for waiting. caller: i like a lot of what the guest is saying, he makes a lot of sense and glad you have them on your 63 and premier political

shows and everybody talks about think tanks. there really are not think takes, they're just propaganda houses, whether the brookings institute or the american enterprise institute. they all have their opinion they want to push on the american public, they are all funded by people with very few -- very deep pockets. but i'm so surprised your guest is so good, it seems like every two to three weeks you've got somebody from the american enterprise institute on there. i don't know if the kiggans are still running it, but it used to be a huge warmongering organization. no i think they have graduated to the american institute for war or something. i wonder if you could speak about the influence in a lot of these propaganda houses. guest: don't be surprised. they hired me because they saw the work that i'm doing.

we have lots of departments and scholars do lots of great work. that is one reason they are often appearing here on c-span. we've got people who do education policy, foreign policy and i don't agree with all of them. but none of them -- those scholars and donors don't interact. they don't influence what we write about. nobody gets to tell me what to write about. i was talking but the corporate welfare, i criticized donors in my article on them getting subsidies. but they basically keep all of that information from me as far as who funds the institution. and brookings, i would say the same thing. the research we do is based on what we find interesting. host: part of one of these institutions, wyatt? what is it allowing? guest: they give me research assistance. they help me. i have colleagues who over the

first couple drafts of chapters, i ran it by other scholars have areas of expertise and they say if you're going to talk about demographics, your to look at the study. if i have traveled, not for the washington examiner but just for my book, ai will help cover the cost. aei is like a thick tank -- think tank. there will be a housing guide, banking, i will ask if i want to make it easier for people to have families, i neither to be more houses. what is the right rule a state or county could pass that would create more housing but would not cause a backlash? we really do have those sorts of ideas. the idea that it is not propaganda, there are no donors -- nobody is saying write a book about how we should all have more babies. there are no donors saying write a book about their too many

subsidies. host: kevin, independent. good morning. caller: good morning. i'm able to have a clear idea on politics. in the case of biden, there is anything proven that he did anything wrong, i would disavow joe biden. i heard you talk about hunter biden and the influence and you gave a good rundown on that. could you give a rundown on the influence jared kushner and ivanka trump got when he was in the white house? guest: they leave don't -- they certainly seems to leave the white house with more connection to foreign businesses they worked with. jared did a lot of work bringing arab countries into having peace with israel. when you do that sort of work, you come into contact with foreign governments and that gives you access to foreign

companies. so it looks like they went ahead and use the connections they got in public service and are now using it for their private benefit. that is the sort of thing that again, is corrupt and undermines the public trust in government. then we ask, i think the work jared did in the middle east with israel was good. but we have to ask, if you know you can make money from the work you are doing in the government, are you going to be motivated only by public good or acting in a way that is lining up your own cash out on the other end? as long as the cashing out is happening, whether it is kushner or biden or any of the dozens of lawmakers who do this, as long as that is happening, we have to be skeptical. are they passing the laws their passing, doing the diplomacy they are doing for the public good or their own private benefit when they leave

government? host: kenneth in tampa, florida. mind for republicans. you are on with tim carney. caller: good morning. i'm just curious, like the guy who called earlier about influence. it's i'm looking at how ron desantis last night on the debate was talking about the border and he said we will just use lethal force and kill them dead. i really don't think that america or mexico will have another country to send special forces into mexico to look for drug lords. the last thing too is that every time they bring up biden's laptop and they should have said that before the election to change it, but why do they never question what jim comey did when

he brought up hillary clinton two weeks before the election was doing the same investigation on donald trump? 's i don't understand why these politicians get to say anything and these people fall right in line, whether democrat or republican, and it takes a person to say i'm independent to think on their own. everyone should be able to think on their own. thank you. guest: i'm agreeing with you here. one of the disturbing things about politics is that a lot of people end up not holding onto their beliefs. you see commentators in the media who in 2015 believed in free trade but records -- because they support trump they believe in trade protectionism. you saw people to the opposite, they attacked trump for cozying

up to dictators and then they say biden is going to have to cozy up to dictators. that is perfectly fine. so i always look for -- if i am listening to somebody, i look for some buddy who determines their own views based on taking in the information, applying it to their principles and considering it. it is ok to change her mind. i change my mind on lots of issues. you should not let politicians determine what you think. this is the thing i see more and more these days, people who will flip their own views. and a lot of conservatives i talked to, 10 years ago would have talked about how bill clinton having an affair with a woman half his age in the white house, lying to cover it up, that that was corrosive to america's moral fiber. then they excuse when donald trump does similar things. that to me shows that politics is making us worse. i hope a lot of people in america don't start calling for lethal force in mexico. i think i would be a bad way to

fight the drug war. i'm not an expert on it but my instinct is we should not be watching military operations in li country. but i think he is right, a lot of people let the politicians make up their mind for them. host: we are short on time, i want to come back to the debates. heading into the debates, one of your columns posted the question that should be asked about ukraine. you were hoping they would. what is at stake for the u.s. in the ukraine russia war? guest: and that is a question to what aid we should be given, which is kind of the question that was asked. but u.s. foreign policy, it ought to serve u.s. interests. just because ukraine is a good guy and putin is a bad guy does not mean we should do everything we can to help ukraine. we should do something. we should not to everything. everybody is somewhere in between. but what is your principal?

what are we getting out of this? that would inform how far we should go in supporting them. if what we are trying to do is defeat prudent and drive them out of power and to a regime change in russia, there might be some buddy who says that is where it -- our interest is. i think it would be a bad idea. but saying what your endgame is would come out of the question which is to say what is the u.s. interest? i don't think our politicians articulate that enough. think that is what voters want to hear. where doing this for an intervention -- foreign intervention and it serves the u.s. in this way. trump successfully trump -- tapped into that. he tapped into jeb bush and his brothers war, and chapter not have a good answer. i think helping ukraine is a good idea. a lot of americans think so. but we would like our leaders to

articulate why it helps the u.s. and how far we should go. host: one last call. patty, the republican line in lynyrd, texas. good morning. caller: good morning. it's my question for tim is are you aware that janet yellen of the federal reserve went over to china and i saw her bow down to the leader there and i don't know if i will say his name right, but it is very concerning to me and a lot of people that have seen that that china has bought 400,000 acres of farmland in america close to our military bases. it seems like all of this stuff with hunter getting money, hunter biden, getting money from

the cfc, chinese money and brains naya is very concerning. i did research on senators incomes and for instance, the third ranking highest republican senator from wyoming -- he was a doctor and he made $5 million and of course he paid his taxes. host: we are short on time, i think we got the just of your question. i want to give him a chance to respond. guest: i did not witness janet yellen bow or new the details of her money. but the fact of foreign influence in u.s. politics is of that we have debated a long time. bill clinton had top fundraisers connected to the chinese

government. in 2010, barack obama tried to argue that the republicans, by taking dark money, could be taking chinese money and that is how dost one of the democrats biggest donors is a european businessman who supports progressives and their policies. so the idea of foreign money influencing u.s. politics is something people really are interested in and have reason to worry about. but i would just say i am heartened by, with regard to biden, that he used to be way too soft and cozy on china. he went so far as to say we have no beef with your one child policy, which is an awful policy. he went to china and said that. now he sees clearly, and i think the whole political platform, both parties see clearly that china does pose a real threat to us. for yellen to go over there and

try to negotiate, try to do diplomacy, i support that. i don't think the biden administration, depart -- despite whatever money hunter biden may have gotten, i don't think they are in the pocket of china. they see the threat that china threat -- china poses. that we can't walk, because our economy is so dependent on them and because they are a great world power. we should be building relationships and trying to steer them toward the good rather than push them away. it's host: tim carney, senior political, missed -- political columnist. his next book, "family unfriendly" is the title. we wl be joined by johnson from the university of the district of columbia. we will discuss the suprem court decision that struck down

the student relieprogram. but more of your phone calls, we will get your thoughts the debate and today in geora, president trump is expected to be booked. go ahead and start calling and we will be right back. ♪ >> sunday night on q&a. in her book generations, san diego state university psychology professor talks about the differences between the six generations living in the united states, the sent, baby boomers, gen-x,illennials, gen y and more. she argues that this -- technological events is to shape the future and the impact it could have. >> we could have more people entered -- identifying at the

extremes of ideology, more polarization between democrats and republicans on various issues especially around race. i think it is good to know what does this really look like overtime? not where we can tell what his age and was generation what has really changed. but look at this across decades. >> her book, generations, sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span's q&a. listen to q&a and all of our podcasts on our free c-span now app. ♪ >> live on sunday, ptember 3 on in-depth, author and essayist mary eberstadt joins book tv to talk aut religious freedom and the sexual revolution in america. she is an expert on christian culture and the author of many books, including it is dangerous to believe: how the west really

lost god, and adam and eve after the pill, and update to her 2012 book about the social change brought about by the sexual revolution of the 1960's. join the conversation with phone calls, facebook comments, and texts. in-depth with mary eberstadt, live, sundays and september 3 at noon eastern on book tv on c-span2. ♪ >> a healthy democracy does not just look like this. it looks like this. where americans can see democracy at work, where citizens are truly informed. our republic thrives. straight from the source on c-span, unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. from the nation's capital to wherever you are. because the opinion that matters most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span, powered by cable.

>> washington journal continues. host: back to your calls for the next 20 minutes to talk about last night's presidential debates, the first presidential debate of the 2024 cycle. publicans squaring off in milwaukee, 80 or and candidates on stage. not on stage was former president trump, the leader in the poll, although the spotlight will be firmly on trump today. the former president expected to surrender to authorities in fulton county, georgia to answer criminal charges and as part of the probe and the indictment into the president's actions in the 2020 election. we are talking about all of it, the phone lines to join the conversation, (202) 748-8001 for republicans, (202) 748-8000 for democrats, independents (202) 748-8002. we are expecting the president's booking and fingerprinting, mugshot to take place around

dinnertime, 6:00 p.m. eastern. we will cover thatut also take your phone calls and get your comments from social media later today. here on c-span, on c-span.org and the free c-span now video app. between now and noon eastern time today, the discussion on the indictments of the former president, the federalist society is holding an event today to discuss the auto indictments, being aired live at noon eastern on c-span, c-span.org and the free c-span now video app. lost a talk about today, but in this 20 minutes, we're letting you lead the discussion. >> in chattanooga, tennessee. europe. caller: i want to know why the debate and all of the media never bring up the fact that then vice president joe biden

was bragging about getting on the plane, if they don't fire the prosecutor and with the money and leave them. if that is not corruption, i don't know what is. he wrecks out leaving with the money if they don't prosecute the company. what do we have to do? that is corruption. host: a democrat, morning. caller: i want to make a couple points quickly. the scene between nikki haley and ramaswamy where she was shouting on him the whole time like she took nutso pills -- host: the discussion about ukraine? caller: she was talking about putin and russia and russia taking over the world. he did not get a word in. that is red meat politics.

there are a bunch of people screaming. we got no information from that at all. i am a democrat. but i am and rfk junior democrat . i'm against war, funding this work, and ramaswamy is two. i know rfk junior would show up on your show and to questions. you have a presidential candidate on washington journal. host: if they want to talk to viewers, we will have him on. caller: reach out to him. i would like to take one comment about c-span. you purchase a paid this redmeat culture. when you have people on here,

we're not talking that anything substantive. a half an hour about biden. this used to be an oasis. you are writing in the subjects, the hate, all that crowd. i hope you are still listening to me. host: always appreciate feedback. that is christian. this is the moment from the debate that he brought up, talking about the war in ukraine, the u.s. support for ukraine in about one minute 10 seconds. >> ukraine is the first line of defense for us and he wants to hand ukraine to russia. he wants to let china eat taiwan. he wants to stop funding israel. you don't do that to friends. what you do is you have the backs of her friends. cushion has said once russia

takes ukraine into the internet, look at what putin did today. when i was at the u.n., the russian ambassador suddenly died. this guy is a murderer and you are choosing a murderer over an american country. ♪ >> you have 30 seconds. >> you have a future career depending on the lockean and raytheon. you've been pushing this lie all week. >> you want to defund israel. c-span.or -- [indiscernible] >> you have no foreign-policy experience and it shows. host: that from the debate last

night. >> can you hear me? >> yes. >> you for taking my call. i watch that debate, there was some chaos, and the clip you played a of showed that. they were really hooting and hollering. i believe this is a christian nation and there is one candidate up there who i think really express that and has defended free speech in their mind and everyone else, and that was doug berger. you heard that expression speak softly and carry a big stick. that's what he did up there. i suppose i will end my call by saying that is what's on every call right now. how does it taste? >> barbie, good morning. >> good morning. how are you. >> went well. >> i was calling about the debate last night. i thought out of all of them,

she was great. she had common sense. but she was the only one with common sense, and she told us why the numbers wouldn't have the abortion ban. it makes sense read if you just tell people the reason and the truth, she outshined all of them. that's all i have to say. >> new orleans. good morning. go ahead. >> good morning. i did watch the debate last night, and it was chaotic from beginning to end. part of it was because of the questions that the moderators asked. that cause confusion for the audience and the participants. no one talked about what they would do or will do if possible to address the problems that are

facing the nation now. and how it will help americans improve their lives. they all talked about republican red meat issues. that baited the audience, and it was terrible. the only person that i saw that had any reasonable answer to reasonable questions that were asked. it was the lady and the governor of arkansas. >> asa hutchinson. >> are talking about the moderators read a couple of times they asked questions were they said raise your hand if you agree with this or not. do you think those work on the stage >> i think that was the

fault of the moderator. the types of questions that they asked. they did not ask any types of questions that would reveal how the candidates would govern the country. >> rick behr and martha of fox news. this is a lane in connecticut. glastonbury connecticut. good morning. >> good morning. i did watch the debate. i didn't think it was so great. i liked nikki haley a lot. the only one that wasn't there was trump. but the world is in such a rotten disgrace with biden that the only person to get this world straightened out is trump. if trump was in there now, we

wouldn't be in a war, given all of our money. i am a senior citizen. i am 87 years old. it is the first time in my life that i have to see if i can pay my bills. or can i go to the grocery store. can i get my prescriptions. it is disgusting. i never had that trouble when trump was in. everything was going good. gas, groceries, electric. now my electric isn't just $20 more. it goes from a hundred to 300. it almost cripples. i don't know. the democrats, what they have done to donald trump, they should be ashamed to look in the mirror. biden, if that was my kid, i would say, i love you, but i don't love what you are doing. >> that is lane in connecticut.

president is sitting down with tucker carlsen of fox news britt and extended and recorded interview. about the same time the debate started last night, according to newsweek. the interview revealed hundred million times in the first four hours, after it was released. this is clifford and the sooner state, independent. good morning. >> good morning. i am glad that i live in the united states rather than russia. russia murders there. we only concoct legal schemes. we need to be back in the ukraine to protect themselves from this takeover of their nation by russia. there are plenty of arms and ammunition. that's all i have to say.

thank you. >> the ocean state. this is a democrat rhode island. good morning. >> thank you. thank you for taking my call. a couple of corrections. we are not a christian nation. we are nation that has christians in it. the second thing is the caller from connecticut who said that democrats are coming trump, let's remember there are no democrats testifying. they are all republicans. my pet peeves how your guest handled the question about trump versus hunter biden. hunter biden something wrong. lock him up. i'm a democrat. if he did something wrong, not -- lock him up. but here are trump's kids. let's not gloss over this. everything about hunter biden is speculation, however, chair did get $2 billion from the saudis. right? and princess there, a bunker,

she received 20 copyrights. from china while trump was in office. how did that compare to the speculation about hunter biden? the early performance will show the bias. thank you for the call. >> stephen western massachusetts . republican. good morning. >> good morning. bottom line up front. i believe spivak won the debate. he is the rich populace that trump was, and i thought he was attacked on multiple fronts. he came upwards of a good salient point, and one was, well, we are a nation. we have been at war since 1914, and whatever we entered world war i. he believes in neutrality. like trump, that is america first. second, he called out the climate hoax. we can talk about that.

third point that i really like that will strike a key with a lot of people is the notion of fatherlessness. he has used this before. this is a gateway to welfare reform. i like the idea of bringing a father back to the home. i understand that the father won't get the welfare if the father in the home or family won't, but the fatherlessness is leading to crime. some people will debate that as well. i don't recall if that was talked about. i don't watch the red sox after 9:00. i caught most of the key points in the morning. also, the attack by haley. i like her, but she says she doesn't know what she's talking about. she used the phrase, less educated to mega-republicans,

and also, use the same phrase recently in the new york times article. but also, enclosing, i'm not committed to spivak, and i'm sure other people including mega supporters are catching attention, and he means well. he brings energy to the debate. the rest of them, we will see. i'm looking forward to the next debate. thank you for taking my call. >> mr. ramaswamy taking to twitter. helping supporters learn how to pronounce his name. this is the post on x, formally known as twitter. it is a debate and how he put that together. this is blake in birmingham. good morning. >> good morning. thank you for taking my call. quick third two candidates who i thought made sense in the debate.

i was very surprised to see he was one being attacked the most britt i thought they would be on to, but he didn't really make much in that debate. i was surprised to see pence doing well. i really think the moderation one in that debate. that is something i would ask the cohost in the guest. does he think moderation one and that debate because i think it one. i think there's a lot of attention and praise for what he did on gery six. thank you for taking my call. >> the best way to ask our guest in the last segment is to sent him a tweet. he is on twitter. he is also in the washington examiner. a senior protocol conference there. this is amanda. little rock arkansas. democrat. good morning. >> thank you for accepting my call. i just want to say, every time -- i will waste my time watching the republicans because life is

too valuable. hello? >> anything you want to add? >> yes. every time the republicans get into to be the president, they run the economy in the ditch. the only good president they had was lincoln. and trump is the second worst president in the usa. ever had. and scholars said that. >> would he think the worst was? >> and and they are uneducated people. that's how come they don't want to teach history and don't want to teach anything. they want to grow their base. >> you said donald trump is the second worst president. he was the worst president? >> i forget what that man's name was, but he was during depression.

i forgot what his name was. but he -- i think they were doing -- being generous, like they were being generous with ronald reagan because he was the worst president. he had white ladies eating cat food. the republicans do not need to be even close to the white house. >> that is amanda in arkansas. this is why nita. 14, alabama. morning. >> good morning. the lady from arkansas needs to pray about her discussion. anyways, opinions are like everything else. all of us have one. but, you know, it is like oh my. we had a fire in hawaii. it is trump's fault. everything is trump's fault read trump did it. trump's fault. trump, trump. i am sick of everything being

blamed on trump. trump did this and that red people get on your knees and pray about this instead of jumping up and blaming -- it is easy to criticize. >> do we lose you? i thing we lost her. this is mary lou. maple new jersey. the morning. >> good morning. good morning everyone, and thank you for c-span. i did watch the debate, and i would like to make a couple of comments. first of all, let's take the moderators. they are in the calendar. in my opinion, they lost total control of the debate. box pick two of their most liberal people to moderate the debate. a lot of people have said that trump was a coward for not showing up. actually, trump was very smart, as usual.

he knew what would happen on that debate stage which all of those people. they would cut each other up and ended up being a dog and pony show. we gave respectable performances. let's go to the other end. first of all, chris christie, who was governor of my state, and i must say did not do a good job, is filled with so much hate for donald trump read it clouds every issue that he tries to explain. then let's go to mike pence. mike pence, every time he invoked god's name, i cringed. that man's behavior to me is just disgusting. i do not believe he did the right thing in the 2020 election. and he and asa hutchinson are on

the same page when it comes to what they did in their state with the lgbtq community. the only two left, ron desantis, i thought he did an excellent job. but he does not have the stamina to fight the washington swamp. ramaswamy, i think i said that correctly, he shown on that stage. he is very charismatic. actually, many of the things he said are very true, but you have to be careful of people like that because often, when you see that, what you see is what you get. everyone have a blessed day. >> mary lou in new jersey. this is virginia. florida. orlando. democrat. >> yes. thank you. c-span. i am so thankful that we do have an outlet that we can vent our

opinions. i want to say that i'm 81 years old. i heard the lady say that we need to get on our knees and pray. i agree with her, 100%. i watch the debate and i would hate to tell you who i thought was the winner because they're not going to vote for her. if i told them, if i said. >> there was only one her. nickel -- nikki haley. >> well, i gave it away deliberately. she was the only one with the sense. asa hutchinson was good. chris christie would be more effective. i wanted to start with the talking about trump, and talk about what he will do for the nation because he was a good governor. in new jersey.

i have a problem with donald trump, and i'm not going to tell you a lie. but number one, when i was being raised up, my parents always told us no matter what, always tell the truth. donald trump has a record of lying, and we have documents to prove it. over 35,000 lies, and i don't understand how anybody, and i just can't understand it. how anyone could follow a liar. >> that is virginia and florida. our last call her in this open forum segment of the washington journal. 45 men's left. in that time, we are taking a look at the court, all week long. c-span has been airing in primetime oral arguments with the most recent term. tonight, you can listen to oral arguntfrom biden and nebraska in a case that was stru down in the biden ministration plan to wipe out

$40 billion in debt. coming up, we will be joined by a professor, the an of the clark school in the district of columbia. lk about that case. biden in nebraska. here's an exchange from the oral arguments of the case between a solicitor general representing the administration and the justices of e supreme court. >> we are not saying this is a significant action,. >> it is gnificant, but one with attention of congress. e fact that it hasn't acted under these major questions, but has consider the matter, we cited the support that maybe it should be one for congress. if you are talking abo this in the abstract, i think most casual observers would say if you are going to give up that much amount of money, if you're going to affect an obligaon of that many americans on the subjt that is of a controversy, they would think that is something for congress to act o and if they haven't

acted on it, maybe it's a good lesson to say for the presidt or the administrative reactor see that it's not just something they should undertake on their own. >> let me react to that. there are couplef different ways. first, let us emphasize that the on enacted legislations that are being pointed to hear, they did not mirror the particula of this plan. it would not be righto say congress has been focused on this plan to disapprove it, and if court was to go down that road, we would have a legislive inaction on the other site, not amending the heroes act, but i think, they would place more focus on enacting legislationand in the pandemic, they enacted a provision of the amecan rescue plan that specifically anticipated and thought to facilitate a program of loan discrge saying that it would not subject to taxation from 2021 to 2025. i think that action actually rries more weight in the analysis. >> thank you. anything further?

ask just brie list -- briefly, there some discuion that goingast this revision or that modification or waiver, this is in effect a cancellationf a debt. that is what were talking about. as the cancellation of $400 billion in debt, in effe, this is a grant of 00 billion. it runs headlong into congress is appropriation of authority, and i would like to give you some time to respond to that >> sure. first i will take on the arguments made inhis case about implicating the propriation authority. implementing this program doe't require that any money be drawn from the treasury, so i don't think that raises an appropriation issue which is why we are not raising the argument here. to the extent that the concern

is about the secretary taking action in a wayhat congress can authorize, it seems like it has collapsed back into a central interpretive question to whether it involves the secretary actionr not. with respect to the concern you raise, the effect of lo forgiveness will result in cancellation of a measure of debt. of course, that is true, but i don't think that is materially different from the kind of effect you can see from other types of authorities that have been exercised under the heroes act. >> c-span is looking back at the supreme court's most recent term and some of its most consequential decisions print you can hear the oral argument from biden versus nebraska. a case that struck down the student loan debt relief bill. joining us to take a deep dive into that case and the student debt forgiveness issue in general, the dean of the district of columbia law school. thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> a year ago, resident biden

announced a sweeping student loan debt forgiveness plan. the official white house release to announce loan forgiveness for borrowers who need it most. >> what is in that plan back on august 24 of 2022. >> in a nutshell, it is addressing a growing student loan debt. essentially, what the plan aimed to do was to give loan forgiveness up to $20,000. two millions of americans facing student loan debt. if you think about the student, the average student loan debt, at least according to one source, the average student loan debt is about $30,000. when you think about a plan from the biden administration that would alleviate that debt, in essence, forgive the debt up to 20,000 dollars, it was a major

effort on the part of the biden administration to give some relief to the students holding those loans. >> $20,000 for the recipients, and $20,000 to non-recipients. there was debt forgiveness. remind viewershat the state was of federal student loan debt repayment in august of 2022. >> i think we were in a state that has been continuing for a long time. in turn of students shouldering the increased cost of higher education, increase cost of secondary education in times of certification and agrees. the public really through grassroots efforts, crying out and letting their elected officials know they need help. they need relief in terms of being able to shoulder this debt.

>> this plan that was announced, a year ago today, based on authorities within the heroes act, how did that factor into it and what was the heroes act? >> the higher education relief opportunity act of this was an act that was enacted several years ago, and i believe, with the purpose of helping americans who were serving in the persian gulf conflict. recognizing their that those folks needed some relief with student loan debt. over the years, the breadth and the scope of the act was brought in. what congress did was give the ability to impact those student loans to waive or modify them in the event of war, military operations or national

emergencies. that is the heroes act. what they saw to do initially, is to use that provision to provide a relief, so, that $10,000, $20,000 scheme we just mentioned, that was able to be put into effect under the provision of the heroes act. >> through the justice system, six states leading the objection and it looks like it moved through the court quickly, biden v nebraska, so why do the six states, what is their main reason for challenging the debt forgiveness plan, and explain what this issue of standing is. >> so, if you are going to bring a claim, you have to have standing in the court to hear it. the court is not and should not be in the business of just giving advice opinions or just addressing the people dislike.

they have standing. you need to be able to argue a particular harm, and it is some injury to your property or money interests. so the states would have to prove to have standing in their claim in the nebraska case. >> so, this case has been decided on june 30 of this year. and, this is part of what chief justice john roberts wrote in the opinion. again, the heroes act we just talked about. ducation sector $40 bil of student loan principal does e ho today, the court holds that the act allows the secretary to waive or modify existing statury or regulatory provisions appcable to financial assistance programs under the education act. not to rewrite the statute from the ground up.

can you put that into regular terms? >> i think what the majority opinion is saying is that this act, by the secretary of education is one that outstrips the authority granted by the heroes act. that the heroes act allows waiver and modification. in essence, the plan by the biden administration, it is more than what the heroes act would allow, and in essence, the drivers are staying in the majority opinion. that this is more than just a waiver or modification evidence situated under the heroes act, and i think with just justice roberts points out is that this is -- this goes beyond anything that has been done under the heroes act, and i think there are some who would take issue with that statement. >> there is a review of biden

versus nebraska when it was announced when it was a sight. let me get a phone number. as we talk about this case is implication, and how closely this follows the case. different phone numbers. if you have student debt, call him. if you paid off your debt, call into this number. and then, a line for all others. >> were talking about this with the district of columbia professor of law. the dean of the law school. the david a clark law school. we will take questions and comments as folks are calling in on the day this case was decided. biden versus nebraska. president biden promised another avenue for student loan debt forgiveness. i want to play about a minute of his comments when he came out to talk about this decision on june 30. >> i'm announcing today a new

path, consistent with the drawing to provide relief to as many borrowers as possible, and as quickly as possible. we will ground this new approach in a different law than my original plan. the so-called higher education act. that will allow secretary cardona, who is with me today, to compromise, waive or release loans under certain circumstances. >> it will take longer. but in my view, it is the best path that remains for as many borrowers as possible with that really. i am directing my team to move as quickly as possible. moments ago, secretary cardona took the first step to initiate a new approach. we are not going to waste any time. we are going to move to take longer. we are going to get on it right away. >> a headline from just about a week later. the supreme court blocked eight that cancellation, but since 1960 five, in biden's land area

this will continue the student debt approach. >> again, this is really, i believe a tremendous effort by the biden administration to deliver on the campaign promise to address the student loan debt. it is interesting to me that the president invoked the higher education act throughout this print the higher education act in 1965. under president lyndon johnson. greats -- great society effort. this will ameliorate some of the ills of society. it is something that was echoed in the importance of a higher education credential. this effort, i think it supports that. under the same plan, the new

approach that was just announced, president biden has put this forth. these support for that, the legal backing for that comes directly from the higher education act. under title iv, there was an act that applied to financial aid for students. the secretary had the authority to adjust the repayment plan in a way that addresses whatever issues student need -- student loan holders are facing, so the act continues the effort by the biden administration. it is different from the -- from what we had a year ago. biden's effort a year ago because that involved loan forgiveness. this is more of a repayment plan. so, it is a floor move to help

people with their student loan debt. but it is still, i think, an important effort in getting at the issue with students holding so much of this loan debt. >> what keeps the supreme court from saying, you've overstepped their authority on the cares act and it was never meant to do that. what keeps them from saying you are overstepping your authority in the 1965 law that was never meant to do this to account for billions of dollars in federal student loan debt forgiveness. >> i think the major argument with regards to the substance, the heroes act. not to this length. i don't think the argument is going to hold with the safe plans. now, people consume. all the time. i do believe that this plan

faces legal challenges. but the authority, the secretary of state, for the secretary of education, to impact student loan repayment, it does exist under a higher education act, and this move through the department of education is not a new type of move. the program is new, but to put together a program that would impact student loan payments, that is not a new move. well, it could face legal challenges, i believe they may have a stronger leg to stand on. >> taking your phone calls this morning for 25 ms. left in the washington journal. our guest at the university of columbia. plenty of colleges for you. we will start on the line for viewers whose student loan debt to her trying to pay it off. good morning.

>> how are you? >> doing well. i support the new effort of the bind administration to erase those student loans. that way they can get rid of the original plan. and i like his foresight or their foresight into the fact that we should not be struggling with student loans when we can bail out and large corporations who are at the foremost of the negative reaction to biden's initial plan. even those people who live in this country, they should not be struggling with student loans, so i said every effort that the by demonstration has to eliminate those loans. they have done more than any other administration to make it right, but for those above education, and for those at the top, it is always hollering

about, getting education grid you will get a job. you get education. you get a good job but you can't afford to live because you are paying these loans back with these higher rates going on in this country. >> thank you. to that point, what is the reaction to the save act. this new effort by the biden administration, and do you see this being as you said, anyone consume and they always do. is this fast tracked back to the supreme court as quickly as that plan of last year moved to the supreme court? >> then -- potentially. even though this is a repayment plan, it is a plan that actually allows a bit of a grant, if you will, so, loan holders are not paying back and that may spark

some contest in this particular plan, so, i think there is a great potential for this to be fast tracked back to the court for a decision on this particular plan. >> this is casey in silver spring maryland. she has paid off student loans. go ahead. >> morning. yes. i pay off my student loans. about two days ago. in all. i would say that i completely support any effort by the biden administration to reduce student debt for any students out there. i really -- i have a phd. i feel like i've received pell grant's in college. i've been looking these loans around with me for the better part of my life, and even after getting a phd, i still struggle

with these loans. by the way, when you are in college, especially from 2005 to 2009, the interest rates are insanely high. i had some that were 10%, 8%, 7%. when you log got around, pursuing higher education, the balance that you deal with is astounding. for lack of a better word, it was the saving grace because silverlining was that i didn't have these payments that were accruing interest, so every month, i would save, and now i paid them off read if i didn't have that opportunity, i would still have just been on a financial hamster wheel and if i wanted to see these people who are losing their doctrine pandemic, i would never have crawled out of that hole. so i think that even though i am

fortunate to have paid mine, i would never want any sort of opportunity to slip out of the hands of somebody else. >> thank you for sharing your story. you pay them up two days ago. was it worth it? >> of course. i -- when i was in college, i had a single family, household. my dad passed away, and i had a pell grant. my four-year education at the university of minnesota was $15,000. and, as a consequence of going through and getting a bachelors degree. when you are a grad student, i was making $20,000 a year. but at the time, it was quite easy to live there. i would say, for the people who have a bad taste in their mouth about paying for other people's

student loans and how they look at it, there was just so many benefits in the end. not just for me personally, but a better job. getting a phd is the best investment in my entire life, and myself read it is the reason i move around. so, it was a hundred percent more for the nation. it loses out by not investing in students. i feel like that government invested in me. they gave me a loan. those loans were not there in the first place but i would never gone to college. i wouldn't of it. how many years has it been since you took at your first loan? >> is 2023. i've been lugging those things my entire life. in a weird way, i have suffered postpartum depression for paying them off. they've been a part of me. >> thank you for sharing your

story. what did you hear? what do you want to pick up on? >> congratulations. but i think i hear a common story there. a common story in terms of student loan holders attempting to live with the student loans. attempting to live and fulfill the promise that was made. higher education act was put there to afford a widespread access to higher education, and that is a mantra. that is a mantra. you go to school and get a certification parade you get a degree. you live a better life, but i don't think we can live with one hand and take it away with the other by saddling students with enormous loan debt, and i think casey's authority -- story is likely representative of a lot of stories of student loan debt holders who have attained their

certification and attained their degrees and are out there trying to live out their promise, but as casey so eloquently put it, we are lugging around a lot of student loan debt that is getting in the way of living out that promise. >> tony in chicago. on the line for those who student loan debt. good morning. >> high. good morning. how are you. >> yes. i am 34 years old, and i have about $70,000 of debt on my shoulders right now. the thing that has to be absolutely discussed in this is the couple of things that just tie in with my generation, my age group, and just student loans in general. what the wealth gap has become. for my generation. generally.

when you are saddled with this much debt, you need to actively just fork over 300, 400, $500 a month. for the income that you can't invest by a house or do other activities because so much of your income is going towards that debt payment. at the same time, while the wealth gap has been increased significantly, the same time, we'll wages have not increased for anyone. you are paying this debt down with wages that really haven't kept up. on the flipside of this, this completely grinds us to dust because the job market requires much more highly events degrees, even for what was traditionally an entry-level position.

they require a bachelors, masters, and look at what the wages? it is 60 or $70,000. your loans, when you come out of school, date or at or higher. we are being asked to contribute to the economy. i'm contributed to the economy. i have a job. i have an education required of me. but now, i'm being held back from other advancements in my life. my generation is being held back from that. because of the amount of debt. education should be nationalized. federally funded. if are going to be advanced with the highly educated, highly productive society which we are already, but if we are to say, we want you to be placed into the best jobs and contribute to the economy for the both extent, you should not yell back by debt, whatsoever, when you come

out. >> we got your point. a lot there. let's let our guest pick up on that. >> certainly. i think tony is onto something. perhaps, this is why the plan and the efforts by biden, president biden, why they face so much scrutiny. why they are under attack. that may be the fundamental question for the society, as to who bears the burden, who bears the cost of higher education. so, we are not dealing with that . we are not dealing with this specifically, but this is an underlying -- i think it is an underlying concern for those who would oppose bidens efforts with regard to student loans. >> the same plan as the newest effort. and this is from the press

release, really explaining how much they think average borrowers will save under this plan. this is what they write. with monthly payments, based on income, under the state plan, with a difference between the adjusted gross income and 225 percent of the u.s. department of health and human services, poverty guidelines with that amount for the family side. for a borrower who makes about $50 an hour, they will not have to make any monthly payments under the same plan. hours earning above that plan will earn around thousand dollars on payments, compared to other plans. with low income borrowers, it will apply to a zero dollar payment saying that this will allow those borrowers to focus on food and rent and other basic needs instead of loan payments. that is the estimate of the biden administration. have you seen any estimates from other groups, not the white

house, taking a look to see if those numbers jibe with what the white house puts out? >> not yet. i haven't seen any counter narrative if you will with regard to how the safe plan will play out in terms of numbers, but as we think about the safe plan and what it is attempting to do, it's getting at exactly what our last caller highlighted for us. that is how do we live, and pay the student loans when everything is in flux, right? it is more expensive to live. it is more expensive to get to work or buy food. what this plan does is take into account those things that student loan debt holders are facing and determining what it is they will have to pay. >> this is rate in nebraska. you are up next read you are on with that district of columbia. >> hello.

i first of all, when i hear the previous callers comments about being $70,000 in debt, i think that is ridiculous. right now, i am ashamed to be a nebraskan because evidently, nebraska is bringing the supreme court case against the biden administration. and, i don't understand why americans can't look around the world and see that almost every other developed country provides free hydrogen nation. and, not only do they get higher education, but they get a stipend for living expenses so they can focus on their education, rather than just struggling to survive. i think a lot of this goes back to the reagan administration that basically destroyed our higher education system by cutting ending to it.

and, i just don't understand why people think it is ok to settle our young people with thousands of dollars of debt. and, personally, i paid off a lot of my children's college. i actually -- the majority of it. i am thankful that the obama administration didn't tax cuts or breaks for the college education for my children. and if we ever wanted to address this shortage we have of doctors and nurses, i think we should look at funding higher education for doctors and nurses. what i want to end with is the idea, again, i know people in denmark. i know children who are going to college. the way they look at this as they say it is me as opposed to we. it is this idea that republicans have that why should i pay for somebody else's -- some other

persons education. i want to take care of myself. i don't think i am part of a society. it is just me instead of we, and then, finally, i would say that the republicans on the debate stage were all -- they can't wait to eliminate the department of so, why would anyone vote for a republican. i will end with that. >> that is ray in nebraska. on your comments about nebraska, one of the states that is part of the pace of the supreme court which objected to the debt relief plan, that was announced literally this date last year. 2022. it was a plan struck down by the supreme court. the new relief plan was announced just a few weeks ago. by the by demonstration. it is a safe plan. we will let you pick up on that. i think ray is really touching

on some issues that have been with us since the enactment of the higher education act. in 19 65. and obviously, that has gone through several iterations and amendments since then. but if you really go back to the history of the act and you think about the emergence of student loans, in some ways, i would describe this as a compromise. along party lines. in terms of figuring out against. who will bear the burden of higher education. if it will be the state or the federal government. or if it will be the person who is educated, and i think over the years, over -- beyond 50 years since the enactment of the higher education act, we have seen the constant push and pull an interplay with regards to the student loans and figuring out

who is really going to bear this burden. we saw obama attempt to address this. we have seen president obama attempt to address this. we see president biden attempting to address this, and the student loans, my interpretation is in a compromise. to put forth a legislation that would afford widespread access to higher education, and we are still dealing with these loans and trying to figure out how it is they support the effort, and trying to ameliorate the effect they have and getting in the way of that effort. >> this push and pull over who should be responsible is playing out on social media. that is where we are having this conversation. what do you say to the tweet from just a few seconds ago. let's talk about a cancer patient. let's get the homeless veterans off the street and families up the street. let's get the elderly, let's keep the elderly help to fix the

problem. then, those who sign up, this has to be the most irresponsible year in history. pay your bills. >> i would say that those things are not separate. they are connected. some of those people can have student loan debts as well, and i think that is what the administration is getting at. this debt, and the people who hold this debt, they are all part of our economic system, and as they flounder, we are all floundering. i think we have to think about what it is that the administration can do to give some relief, and giving relief is not new in this country. we are talking about student loan debt, but we have bailed out commercial enterprises.

we have done some things but not enough. this country has a history of stepping in when the economic system is going to be impacted. individuals are shouldering more debt than we know they can handle. >> just a few myths left. at the district of columbia, the dean of law schools there. how big is the law school? , do you have in students? >> we have 259 students at the law school. >> of them, do you know how many have taken out students loans? >> i don't know off the top of my head, but i can tell you a lot of our students, the vast majority do rely on financial aid. our students are in law school but many of them were eligible for grants at the undergraduate level. >> this is nelson in pembroke pines on that line for those who have paid off their debt. the morning.

>> can you hear me? >> hello? >> i can hear you. go ahead. >> i am a vietnam veteran. i went to college while working full time. under the g.i. bill. that went up to and included a masters degree. so, i certainly paid with my blood in order to go to -- for the privilege of having the g.i. bill. but during that time, i also had to repay part of that because of a mistake that was made. that repayment took place by the abduction of our compensation in the federal government that i was receiving from the combat world.

i am not really sympathetic, and i hope you will allow me the same amount of time as you allow the other colors. i'm not sympathetic with individuals who are calling him because there is a delay and they are having to get a house, and because they have bills to pay. well, i went through all of that, too. i am married. we had children. one of our children was disabled. etc.. all of this -- also, i believe in the concept of fairness here. it's not fair to have people who have gone to work, rather than go to college to pay for the college education of others who choose to do so. >> i will say i am in favor of lowering the interest rates. i also think that the method that is being used is one of the

primary problems, a federal government should not be involved in guaranteeing loans. when the colleges are taking advantage of that, and increasing their costs for anybody to go to college. i think you begin there. and, with that, i will listen to your response. take into consideration there are many people in this country, the vast majority, who didn't go to college and pay their taxes. >> i got your point. >> i think that perspective certainly exist. i think you have to think about the cost of higher education and not just the cost of wishing it, but also the cost of attendance, and in my mind, that includes what it costs people to stop and to pursue a certification or two

pursue a degree, and when we do acquire that of individuals to attain these degrees, i think we have some responsibility to them. again, we make sure that they can live out the promise we made to them in terms of what to be -- to grade could afford. with the certification would afford. i would point out that the save plan is a repayment plan. while there are some aspects of it, and they would provide some relief to borrowers, it is a plan that has several facets to it. that includes health interest payments and there is a portion of this plan that is spreading repayment over 10 years. so, it is certainly not relieving every one of the responsibilities of paying for

-- repaying the student loans. rather, it takes, i believe, a deep look at what student loan holders are able to do and to determine payment based on that. >> will have to end there. as the save plan moves forward, legal issues before. perhaps, we will have that down the road. she is with the university the dean of law school. thank you for your time. >> thank you for having me. >> that will do it for a program. one note. a reminder that we are expecting donald trump to surrender to authorities in fulton county, georgia, later in the afternoon. perhap around 6 p.m.. it is expected to be more than a dozen critical --harges. we will have coverage on c-span as time for a viewer calls and reaction spread you can watch on c-span at work on the free app.

that is going to do it frustrated we will be back tomorrow morning at 7 a.m. eastern. orient pacific. in the meantime, have a great thursday. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023] tiong performed by the national captioning institute, which ponsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.o >> harris look at the sce outside of fulton county jail in atlanta as supporters await former pre donald trump's arrival later today and he will turn itself in provoking in response to racketeering and conspiracy charges for his alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election results in georgia. we will have live coverage today on what is happening in atlanta

at noon eastern, a discussion of the four indictments against auto and truck -- against donald trump. is hosted by the federalist society. this evening, the former president himself into authorities at the fulton county jail in atlanta and we will have live coverage and get the work reaction and that gins at 6 p.m. eastern. this is on c-span, c-span now, our free video app and on c-span.org. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these television companies and more including charter communications. >> charter is proud to be recognized as one of the best internet providers and we are get --