those cases involving voting rights, affirmative action, antidiscrimination, and free-speech. tonight, here the case of biden versus nebraska where the court struck down the biden administration student debt relief program created during the covid-19 pandemic. watch key supreme court oral arguments this week at 9:00 eastern on c-span and online at c-span.org. here is what is live on c-span today. at noon, a discussion on the four indictments agast former president donald trump, including criminal law, presidential elections, the constituon. it ihosted by the federalist society. th at 1:00 a look at artificial intelligence and it use by government agencies. we will hero embarks from the

chief administrator of the national oceanic administratn. in this evening former president ump turns him into authoriti in response to racketeering and conspiracy charges for his efforts to overturnhe 2020 election results in georgia. we will have live coverage and get fewer reaction. that begins at 6:00 eastern. all of this on c-span, c-span now, and online at c-span.org. >> always happy to welcome tim carney back to the washington journal. c-span viewers know him as the senior clinical columnist at the washington examiner. other than starting way too late for you, what did you think of the debate? guest: it was exciting, it was revealing. the main thing that surprised me was nikki haley performed better than i expected.

i have seen her speak before and she is often wooded and scripted. in this case she seemed to be on her toes. she had saw -- she had sharp critiques of vivek ramaswamy. that was the biggest surprise for me. the other big surprise was you had tim scott. i thought he really underperformed. this is his first time on a big stage. he has running for senate before but never a tight election in south carolina. some of these are great speakers and good senators but their first time on the big stage they underperform. that was tim scott. host: he did not grab debate time enough, it is easy to get lost. guest: he did not grab the time or to distinguished himself. he talked a lot about god and his faith, and reasserting that these days is important to do.

they are all running against donald trump and a lot of them did not talk like it. scott particularly had a couple of opportunities when he was asked about january 6, later when he started by saying the president needs to be somebody who reflects they values of the country, these were opportunities for him to critique the real republican front runner and he backs down. host: did the fundamental dynamics of this publican nomination change? guest: i don't see it with the same eyes as the average viewer. if i could guess, nikki haley made herself more of a force in this race. that would be the primary change. the fact that donald trump is still where the polls, he is way ahead in the iowa and new hampshire polls, and for that reason, that has not changed. but who's going to be the primary challenger, i think nikki haley established herself

as a contender. host: can or should donald trump keep skipping debates? guest: i kind of hit that question. i understand why you asked. the only part of the tucker carlsen donald trump then last night i watched is why he was skipping. it was entirely self-serving. he never said i don't think republican voters are going to learn from this or this is not a productive way -- who said there is nothing in it for me. the answer gave, that was his answer. i think he should at least pretend to care about public interest and in that answer he said what is in it for me? host: we will play the answer. >> why are you not at the debate in milwaukee?

>> a lot of people have been asking me that. many people said you shouldn't do it, you see the polls,, i'm leading by 50 and 60 points, some of them are 1, 0, 2. to sit there for an hour, two hours, get harassed by people who should not even be running for president, should not be doing that, at a network that is not particularly friendly to me. they were backing ron de sanctimonious and now he is a lost cause. romania 2016. the became very friendly after i won. i thought it would be more important not to do the debate. if you are leading by 50, 60, one pole i was leading by 70 points, i'm saying why my doing it? i'm going to have eight or 10

people on the debate, i don't have any, but all of these people screaming at me, showing questions -- which i love doing but it doesn't exist. so i've taken a pass. host: former president trump with tucker carlson, interview released on x. he said it reminds him of 2016. guest: what is funny is the 2016 debate catapulted him to the lead and it was very revealing to commentators, what they were looking for. the main thing he did was establish himself as the big dog in the park. if somebody criticized him, he would punch back twice as hard. that served his aggressiveness and that is what the republican base was looking for after nominating nice guys like

robbie, john mccain, bob dole, george w. bush. the biggest thing you saw on the stage, there were a lot of people who realized last night in the republican debate that the republican party is different today than it was in 2015 before trump came on stage. foreign policy is telling. before trump came on the stage, republican party leadership was all very aggressive, build up the military, be aggressive overseas, and trump showed the republican leadership that the republican base is a lot less like that. the ukraine question highlighted that, there is an interesting bait on republican foreign policy. last night reflected it. host: what do you think about the decision to wait an hour before the trump questions,? guest: i like getting into policy matters.

that is one way in which the debate can be most informative. we should ask what is our job? not just to provide entertainment but to drive debate. they take it seriously. where do these people stand? so starting with that instead of with trump i thought was a good decision. i'm glad they asked about trump. i was sad almost all of the candidates dodged it. they explained why they would be better. host: tim carney on the washington examiner, chris christie said that trump's behavior was beneath the dignity of the office. guest: he began by saying whether or not you think he should be charged, georgia and new york, the federal cases, all of the actions underlying these charges reflect life dust why he

should not be the president. the new york case refers to hush money pay to a foreign actress he had had an affair with, that is a weak criminal case. the argument is weak. on the other hand, do we want a president who had an affair and paid hush money to cover it up and had his campaign lawyer do it? the georgia case i'm not convinced they were actual crimes. it could be politics that -- and the efforts to control georgia politicians to overturn the outcome does not -- so you don't have to agree to dust with the prosecution to agree that the behavior reflects poorly on trump. host: the front page of the washington post has the mugshot of rudy giuliani taken yesterday.

he answered the charges, was think bridget, we are expecting this to happen with the former president today. it's are you expecting the donald trump mugshot on the front page of every paper? guest: it is entertainment. the telling thing on this, donald trump ran in 2016 saying lock her up, one of the most common chance at republican events. at the republican convention, it was reporting on the floor that the chant was used repeatedly. one thing that upset democrats and the news media was that it seemed so undemocratic and harsh, lacking in compassion to cheer for your political enemies to go to jail. now, since trump came into office and the fbi, robert muller started investigating him, which proved to be nothing,

the desire to see political enemies locked up, the joy at seeing the rudy giuliani mugshot, reflects to me that the democratic base has become, in 2024, what the republican base was in 2016. thirsting for the bad guys to go to jail. host: coverage of former president trump answering these charges in fulton county. we will have this on c-span around six clock p.m., we are expecting it around that time. c-span.org is where you can watch the free c-span video app. the next half-hour, with tim carney of the american enterprise institute. numbers to call in, 202, 748, -- the numbers to call for democrats, (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001,

independent (202) 748-8002. tom, republican line. caller: good morning. i think donald trump would get the nomination whether he was in jail or not. these cases, aldo dershowitz has no these cases down pretty well. it is all to try to defame the president. the main thing i want to remind everybody else is that the dossier that was used to create a false intelligence investigation against donald trump and was leaked to try to keep them from being the president in 20 16. then the hunter biden laptop, the fbi knew was legitimate and allowed the democratic party to impeach the president over phone calls to ukraine regarding be crime family. that was covered up by the fbi and they worked with twitter and facebook to keep it off of the

internet so that biden could become the president. host: i think i got your point. guest: the point that tom is making, i'm not going to agree with all of your conclusions, but it is certainly true that the people in power in this country have done a lot to fritter away the trust they have been invested in. it's -- and the justice department under the biden administration is an example. the example i point to is the pro-life activist in philadelphia or outside of it had gotten involved in a scuffle outside of the abortion clinic a couple of years back and they thought about bringing chargers and they dropped it. the biden justice department launched an expedition to look for any pro-lifer who had ever had a run-in with the lawn see

if they could bring federal charges against them and they did. they showed up at the house in front of his children and arrested him, and they lost the case which was horrible. that was politicization of the justice apartment that has happened under biden and an example of facebook and twitter deciding there isn't really a hunter biden laptop, anybody who post about it is going to get canceled from the platform. what gets called disinformation today turns out to be true tomorrow. they got the justice department these big tech companies using their power in ways that really look like they are just of their political views. when there are voters like tom who say i think all of the charges against tom rbs, it is hard to blame them because of how much these people have frittered away their credibility. host: an extended amount of

questions on the pro-life issues last night. a key issue in the republican primary. this is about one minute from the discussion last night about whether candidates would support the national abortion ban. >> nikki, you are my friend but consensus is the opposite of leadership. we want to return this question to the american people, they did not send it to the states only. it is not a states only issue, it is a moral issue. and as president of the united states, they reckon people will have a champion for life in the oval office. can't we have a minimum standard in every state in the nation that says when a baby is capable of feeling pain, and abortion cannot be allowed? a 15 week been desk ban is supported by 70% of the megan people. it will take unapologetic leadership. -- american people.

crisis pregnancies, i will do that as president. >> i will say it is in the hands of the people and that is where it should be. when you're talking about a federal ban, be honest with you megan people. we have not had 45 pro-life senators and over 100 years. no republican president can ban abortion any more than a democrat president can ban all of those state laws. don't make women feel like they have to decide on this issue when you know we don't have 60 senate votes in the house. host: tim carney. guest: there's a lot going on here and it is often misunderstood by the media who reports on it. these two has to do pretty well. the bottom line is that roe v. wade took abortion out of not just the states but congress. when dobbs came in and it down roe v. wade, and returned the issue of abortion, like the issue of gun control, minim wage, etc., to the political realm both on the federal and the state level.

a lot of republican responses to eight, lindsey graham from south carolina, might support what pence calls the minimum standard, that on a federal level, after 15 weeks abortion will be outlawed except in cases like rape, incest and severe threat to the physical health of the mother. the states could more restrictive. 95% of abortions are in the first 15 weeks. so the 5% of later abortions would need to have one of these exemptions in order to be legal. if florida wanted to outlaw it at six weeks when the baby has a heartbeat, florida can do that. but new york obviously would not pass any restrictions. but it would still be illegal after 15 weeks under this bill. nikki haley's point that you probably don't have the majority of the senate or the super majority to overcome a

filibuster is also true. to get 60 votes in the u.s. senate to pass this bill would be difficult. but the idea of setting a minimum, like minimal wage, we have a federal memo wage that is $7.25 -- minimum wage so $7.15 or whatever, and states have it higher. he is proposing that with abortion, every baby protected at 15 weeks in certain states can pass laws that protect the more. host: the buckeye state, maria, independent. go ahead. caller: yes, why is nobody screaming lock him up? guest: i think a lot of people are saying that. are you talking at republican debaters? again, you had chris christie who said that the charges -- whether or not you agree with the federal and state charges against donald trump, they certainly reflect poorly on him.

they show he's not a good candidate, not a good nominee and will be a good president again is the argument. but to actually say that these are federal crimes, it was distasteful when trump was doing that, a lot of people agree. so the proper response, what the by demonstration says is we want these cases to go forward. you do have a lot of lock him up the news media, other democratic politicians. but none of the republicans -- not only do they not say lock him up, very few have them even said that donald trump is unfit to be president. they're running against him and they were almost afraid to criticize him. that was most notable thing. host: they want you to talk about vivek ramaswamy, he was winning for the fences, talk about a lot of issues. guest: he is the highest person

polling. brand-new to politics and the runner-up in the national polls recently to donald trump. he came out very aggressive, very energetic on ukraine, he is to distinguished himself as drawing a hard line that the u.s. does not have an interest there and we should pull out. the problem that i see is that he is always trying to give the answer he thinks the audience wants to hear. if you look on leidy could see people putting together him say what the audit monday and opposite thing on a tuesday. that is not a sustainable campaign. mark richards are often wrong but i suspect him to fall in the polls. he is tapping into the zeitgeist but last night i think he introduced himself to a lot of people so he might gain from that. but he did come away with a strong impression of dust you do not come away with