landed at hartsfield international airport to answer those booking charges. this will play out over the next days and months. we will talk more about this booking in atlanta on or washington journal program. you will be able to give your comments on the events of the day. join us for your cause, texts and tweets on former president trump's booking in atlanta. >> a healthy democracy does not just look like this. it looks like this. where americans can see democracy at work. get informed straight from the source on c-span, unfiltered,

unbiased, word for word. from the nation's capital to wherever you are. >> thank you for joining us this morning. >> it was a year ago today that president biden announced a sweeping student loan debt forgiveness plan. the official white house release. what was in that plan back on august 24 of 2022? question plan really was a tremendous effort by the biden administration to address growing student loan debt. aimed to do was to give loan forgiveness up to $20,000. two millions of americans facing

student loan debt. if you think about the student, the average student loan debt, at least according to one source, the average student loan debt is about $30,000. when you think about a plan from the biden administration that would alleviate that debt, in essence, forgive the debt up to 20,000 dollars, it was a major effort on the part of the biden administration to give some relief to the students holding those loans. >> $20,000 for the recipients, and $20,000 to non-recipients. there was debt forgiveness. remind viewers what the state was of federal student loan debt repayment in august of 2022. >> i think we were in a state that has been continuing for a long time. in turn of students shouldering

the increased cost of higher education, increase cost of secondary education in times of certification and agrees. the public really through grassroots efforts, crying out and letting their elected officials know they need help. they need relief in terms of being able to shoulder this debt. >> this plan that was announced, a year ago today, based on authorities within the heroes act, how did that factor into it and what was the heroes act? >> the higher education relief opportunity act of this was an act that was enacted several years ago, and i believe, with the purpose of helping americans who were serving in the persian gulf conflict. recognizing their that those folks needed some relief with

student loan debt. over the years, the breadth and the scope of the act was brought in. what congress did was give the ability to impact those student loans to waive or modify them in the event of war, military operations or national emergencies. that is the heroes act. what they saw to do initially, is to use that provision to provide a relief, so, that $10,000, $20,000 scheme we just mentioned, that was able to be put into effect under the provision of the heroes act. >> through the justice system, six states leading the objection and it looks like it moved through the court quickly, biden v nebraska, so why do the six

states, what is their main reason for challenging the debt forgiveness plan, and explain what this issue of standing is. >> so, if you are going to bring a claim, you have to have standing in the court to hear it. the court is not and should not be in the business of just giving advice opinions or just addressing the people dislike. they have standing. you need to be able to argue a particular harm, and it is some injury to your property or money interests. so the states would have to prove to have standing in their claim in the nebraska case. >> so, this case has been decided on june 30 of this year. and, this is part of what chief justice john roberts wrote in the opinion. again, the heroes act we just

talked about. education sector $40 bil of student loan principal does e hold today, the court holds that the act allows the secretary to waive or modify existing statury or regulatory provisions applicable to financial assistance programs under the education act. not to rewrite the statute from the ground up. can you put that into regular terms? >> i think what the majority opinion is saying is that this act, by the secretary of education is one that outstrips the authority granted by the heroes act. that the heroes act allows waiver and modification. in essence, the plan by the biden administration, it is more than what the heroes act would allow, and in essence, the

drivers are staying in the majority opinion. that this is more than just a waiver or modification evidence situated under the heroes act, and i think with just justice roberts points out is that this is -- this goes beyond anything that has been done under the heroes act, and i think there are some who would take issue with that statement. >> there is a review of biden versus nebraska when it was announced when it was a sight. let me get a phone number. as we talk about this case is implication, and how closely this follows the case. different phone numbers. if you have student debt, call him. if you paid off your debt, call into this number. and then, a line for all others. >> were talking about this with

the district of columbia professor of law. the dean of the law school. the david a clark law school. we will take questions and comments as folks are calling in on the day this case was decided. biden versus nebraska. president biden promised another avenue for student loan debt forgiveness. i want to play about a minute of his comments when he came out to talk about this decision on june 30. >> i'm announcing today a new path, consistent with the drawing to provide relief to as many borrowers as possible, and as quickly as possible. we will ground this new approach in a different law than my original plan. the so-called higher education act. that will allow secretary cardona, who is with me today, to compromise, waive or release loans under certain circumstances. >> it will take longer. but in my view, it is the best path that remains for as many borrowers as possible with that

really. i am directing my team to move as quickly as possible. moments ago, secretary cardona took the first step to initiate a new approach. we are not going to waste any time. we are going to move to take longer. we are going to get on it right away. >> a headline from just about a week later. the supreme court blocked eight that cancellation, but since 1960 five, in biden's land area this will continue the student debt approach. >> again, this is really, i believe a tremendous effort by the biden administration to deliver on the campaign promise to address the student loan debt. it is interesting to me that the president invoked the higher education act throughout this

print the higher education act in 1965. under president lyndon johnson. greats -- great society effort. this will ameliorate some of the ills of society. it is something that was echoed in the importance of a higher education credential. this effort, i think it supports that. under the same plan, the new approach that was just announced, president biden has put this forth. these support for that, the legal backing for that comes directly from the higher education act. under title iv, there was an act that applied to financial aid for students. the secretary had the authority to adjust the repayment plan in a way that addresses whatever

issues student need -- student loan holders are facing, so the act continues the effort by the biden administration. it is different from the -- from what we had a year ago. biden's effort a year ago because that involved loan forgiveness. this is more of a repayment plan. so, it is a floor move to help people with their student loan debt. but it is still, i think, an important effort in getting at the issue with students holding so much of this loan debt. >> what keeps the supreme court from saying, you've overstepped their authority on the cares act and it was never meant to do that. what keeps them from saying you are overstepping your authority in the 1965 law that was never meant to do this to account for billions of dollars in federal student loan debt forgiveness.

>> i think the major argument with regards to the substance, the heroes act. not to this length. i don't think the argument is going to hold with the safe plans. now, people consume. all the time. i do believe that this plan faces legal challenges. but the authority, the secretary of state, for the secretary of education, to impact student loan repayment, it does exist under a higher education act, and this move through the department of education is not a new type of move. the program is new, but to put together a program that would impact student loan payments,

that is not a new move. well, it could face legal challenges, i believe they may have a stronger leg to stand on. >> taking your phone calls this morning for 25 ms. left in the washington journal. our guest at the university of columbia. plenty of colleges for you. we will start on the line for viewers whose student loan debt to her trying to pay it off. good morning. >> how are you? >> doing well. i support the new effort of the bind administration to erase those student loans. that way they can get rid of the original plan. and i like his foresight or their foresight into the fact that we should not be struggling with student loans when we can bail out and large corporations who are at the foremost of the negative reaction to biden's initial plan.

even those people who live in this country, they should not be struggling with student loans, so i said every effort that the by demonstration has to eliminate those loans. they have done more than any other administration to make it right, but for those above education, and for those at the top, it is always hollering about, getting education grid you will get a job. you get education. you get a good job but you can't afford to live because you are paying these loans back with these higher rates going on in this country. >> thank you. to that point, what is the reaction to the save act. this new effort by the biden administration, and do you see this being as you said, anyone consume and they always do. is this fast tracked back to the

supreme court as quickly as that plan of last year moved to the supreme court? >> then -- potentially. even though this is a repayment plan, it is a plan that actually allows a bit of a grant, if you will, so, loan holders are not paying back and that may spark some contest in this particular plan, so, i think there is a great potential for this to be fast tracked back to the court for a decision on this particular plan. >> this is casey in silver spring maryland. she has paid off student loans. go ahead. >> morning. yes. i pay off my student loans. about two days ago. in all.

i would say that i completely support any effort by the biden administration to reduce student debt for any students out there. i really -- i have a phd. i feel like i've received pell grant's in college. i've been looking these loans around with me for the better part of my life, and even after getting a phd, i still struggle with these loans. by the way, when you are in college, especially from 2005 to 2009, the interest rates are insanely high. i had some that were 10%, 8%, 7%. when you log got around, pursuing higher education, the balance that you deal with is astounding. for lack of a better word, it was the saving grace because

silverlining was that i didn't have these payments that were accruing interest, so every month, i would save, and now i paid them off read if i didn't have that opportunity, i would still have just been on a financial hamster wheel and if i wanted to see these people who are losing their doctrine pandemic, i would never have crawled out of that hole. so i think that even though i am fortunate to have paid mine, i would never want any sort of opportunity to slip out of the hands of somebody else. >> thank you for sharing your story. you pay them up two days ago. was it worth it? >> of course. i -- when i was in college, i had a single family, household. my dad passed away, and i had a pell grant. my four-year education at the university of minnesota was

$15,000. and, as a consequence of going through and getting a bachelors degree. when you are a grad student, i was making $20,000 a year. but at the time, it was quite easy to live there. i would say, for the people who have a bad taste in their mouth about paying for other people's student loans and how they look at it, there was just so many benefits in the end. not just for me personally, but a better job. getting a phd is the best investment in my entire life, and myself read it is the reason i move around. so, it was a hundred percent more for the nation. it loses out by not investing in students. i feel like that government invested in me. they gave me a loan. those loans were not there in the first place but i would

never gone to college. i wouldn't of it. how many years has it been since you took at your first loan? >> is 2023. i've been lugging those things my entire life. in a weird way, i have suffered postpartum depression for paying them off. they've been a part of me. >> thank you for sharing your story. what did you hear? what do you want to pick up on? >> congratulations. but i think i hear a common story there. a common story in terms of student loan holders attempting to live with the student loans. attempting to live and fulfill the promise that was made. higher education act was put there to afford a widespread access to higher education, and

that is a mantra. that is a mantra. you go to school and get a certification parade you get a degree. you live a better life, but i don't think we can live with one hand and take it away with the other by saddling students with enormous loan debt, and i think casey's authority -- story is likely representative of a lot of stories of student loan debt holders who have attained their certification and attained their degrees and are out there trying to live out their promise, but as casey so eloquently put it, we are lugging around a lot of student loan debt that is getting in the way of living out that promise. >> tony in chicago. on the line for those who student loan debt. good morning. >> high. good morning. how are you. >> yes. i am 34 years old, and i have about $70,000 of debt on my

shoulders right now. the thing that has to be absolutely discussed in this is the couple of things that just tie in with my generation, my age group, and just student loans in general. what the wealth gap has become. for my generation. generally. when you are saddled with this much debt, you need to actively just fork over 300, 400, $500 a month. for the income that you can't invest by a house or do other activities because so much of your income is going towards that debt payment. at the same time, while the

wealth gap has been increased significantly, the same time, we'll wages have not increased for anyone. you are paying this debt down with wages that really haven't kept up. on the flipside of this, this completely grinds us to dust because the job market requires much more highly events degrees, even for what was traditionally an entry-level position. they require a bachelors, masters, and look at what the wages? it is 60 or $70,000. your loans, when you come out of school, date or at or higher. we are being asked to contribute to the economy. i'm contributed to the economy. i have a job. i have an education required of me. but now, i'm being held back from other advancements in my life. my generation is being held back from that.

because of the amount of debt. education should be nationalized. federally funded. if are going to be advanced with the highly educated, highly productive society which we are already, but if we are to say, we want you to be placed into the best jobs and contribute to the economy for the both extent, you should not yell back by debt, whatsoever, when you come out. >> we got your point. a lot there. let's let our guest pick up on that. >> certainly. i think tony is onto something. perhaps, this is why the plan and the efforts by biden, president biden, why they face so much scrutiny. why they are under attack. that may be the fundamental question for the society, as to who bears the burden, who bears the cost of higher education.

so, we are not dealing with that . we are not dealing with this specifically, but this is an underlying -- i think it is an underlying concern for those who would oppose bidens efforts with regard to student loans. >> the same plan as the newest effort. and this is from the press release, really explaining how much they think average borrowers will save under this plan. this is what they write. with monthly payments, based on income, under the state plan, with a difference between the adjusted gross income and 225 percent of the u.s. department of health and human services, poverty guidelines with that amount for the family side. for a borrower who makes about $50 an hour, they will not have to make any monthly payments under the same plan. hours earning above that plan will earn around thousand

dollars on payments, compared to other plans. with low income borrowers, it will apply to a zero dollar payment saying that this will allow those borrowers to focus on food and rent and other basic needs instead of loan payments. that is the estimate of the biden administration. have you seen any estimates from other groups, not the white house, taking a look to see if those numbers jibe with what the white house puts out? >> not yet. i haven't seen any counter narrative if you will with regard to how the safe plan will play out in terms of numbers, but as we think about the safe plan and what it is attempting to do, it's getting at exactly what our last caller highlighted for us. that is how do we live, and pay the student loans when everything is in flux, right?

it is more expensive to live. it is more expensive to get to work or buy food. what this plan does is take into account those things that student loan debt holders are facing and determining what it is they will have to pay. >> this is rate in nebraska. you are up next read you are on with that district of columbia. >> hello. i first of all, when i hear the previous callers comments about being $70,000 in debt, i think that is ridiculous. right now, i am ashamed to be a nebraskan because evidently, nebraska is bringing the supreme court case against the biden administration. and, i don't understand why americans can't look around the world and see that almost every other developed country provides free hydrogen nation.

and, not only do they get higher education, but they get a stipend for living expenses so they can focus on their education, rather than just struggling to survive. i think a lot of this goes back to the reagan administration that basically destroyed our higher education system by cutting ending to it. and, i just don't understand why people think it is ok to settle our young people with thousands of dollars of debt. and, personally, i paid off a lot of my children's college. i actually -- the majority of it. i am thankful that the obama administration didn't tax cuts or breaks for the college education for my children. and if we ever wanted to address this shortage we have of doctors and nurses, i think we should look at funding higher education

for doctors and nurses. what i want to end with is the idea, again, i know people in denmark. i know children who are going to college. the way they look at this as they say it is me as opposed to we. it is this idea that republicans have that why should i pay for somebody else's -- some other persons education. i want to take care of myself. i don't think i am part of a society. it is just me instead of we, and then, finally, i would say that the republicans on the debate stage were all -- they can't wait to eliminate the department of so, why would anyone vote for a republican. i will end with that. >> that is ray in nebraska. on your comments about nebraska, one of the states that is part of the pace of the supreme court

which objected to the debt relief plan, that was announced literally this date last year. 2022. it was a plan struck down by the supreme court. the new relief plan was announced just a few weeks ago. by the by demonstration. it is a safe plan. we will let you pick up on that. i think ray is really touching on some issues that have been with us since the enactment of the higher education act. in 19 65. and obviously, that has gone through several iterations and amendments since then. but if you really go back to the history of the act and you think about the emergence of student loans, in some ways, i would describe this as a compromise. along party lines. in terms of figuring out against. who will bear the burden of

higher education. if it will be the state or the federal government. or if it will be the person who is educated, and i think over the years, over -- beyond 50 years since the enactment of the higher education act, we have seen the constant push and pull an interplay with regards to the student loans and figuring out who is really going to bear this burden. we saw obama attempt to address this. we have seen president obama attempt to address this. we see president biden attempting to address this, and the student loans, my interpretation is in a compromise. to put forth a legislation that would afford widespread access to higher education, and we are still dealing with these loans and trying to figure out how it is they support the effort, and

trying to ameliorate the effect they have and getting in the way of that effort. >> this push and pull over who should be responsible is playing out on social media. that is where we are having this conversation. what do you say to the tweet from just a few seconds ago. let's talk about a cancer patient. let's get the homeless veterans off the street and families up the street. let's get the elderly, let's keep the elderly help to fix the problem. then, those who sign up, this has to be the most irresponsible year in history. pay your bills. >> i would say that those things are not separate. they are connected. some of those people can have student loan debts as well, and i think that is what the administration is getting at. this debt, and the people who hold this debt, they are all part of our economic system, and as they flounder, we are all

floundering. i think we have to think about what it is that the administration can do to give some relief, and giving relief is not new in this country. we are talking about student loan debt, but we have bailed out commercial enterprises. we have done some things but not enough. this country has a history of stepping in when the economic system is going to be impacted. individuals are shouldering more debt than we know they can handle. >> just a few myths left. at the district of columbia, the dean of law schools there. how big is the law school? , do you have in students? >> we have 259 students at the law school. >> of them, do you know how many

have taken out students loans? >> i don't know off the top of my head, but i can tell you a lot of our students, the vast majority do rely on financial aid. our students are in law school but many of them were eligible for grants at the undergraduate level. >> this is nelson in pembroke pines on that line for those who have paid off their debt. the morning. >> can you hear me? >> hello? >> i can hear you. go ahead. >> i am a vietnam veteran. i went to college while working full time. under the g.i. bill. that went up to and included a masters degree. so, i certainly paid with my blood in order to go to -- for

the privilege of having the g.i. bill. but during that time, i also had to repay part of that because of a mistake that was made. that repayment took place by the abduction of our compensation in the federal government that i was receiving from the combat world. i am not really sympathetic, and i hope you will allow me the same amount of time as you allow the other colors. i'm not sympathetic with individuals who are calling him because there is a delay and they are having to get a house, and because they have bills to pay. well, i went through all of that, too. i am married. we had children. one of our children was disabled. etc.. all of this -- also, i believe

in the concept of fairness here. it's not fair to have people who have gone to work, rather than go to college to pay for the college education of others who choose to do so. >> i will say i am in favor of lowering the interest rates. i also think that the method that is being used is one of the primary problems, a federal government should not be involved in guaranteeing loans. when the colleges are taking advantage of that, and increasing their costs for anybody to go to college. i think you begin there. and, with that, i will listen to your response. take into consideration there are many people in this country,

the vast majority, who didn't go to college and pay their taxes. >> i got your point. >> i think that perspective certainly exist. i think you have to think about the cost of higher education and not just the cost of wishing it, but also the cost of attendance, and in my mind, that includes what it costs people to stop and to pursue a certification or two pursue a degree, and when we do acquire that of individuals to attain these degrees, i think we have some responsibility to them. again, we make sure that they can live out the promise we made to them in terms of what to be -- to grade could afford. with the certification would afford. i would point out that the save plan is a repayment plan. while there are some aspects of it, and they would provide some relief to borrowers, it is a

plan that has several facets to it. that includes health interest payments and there is a portion of this plan that is spreading repayment over 10 years. so, it is certainly not relieving every one of the responsibilities of paying for -- repaying the student loans. rather, it takes, i believe, a deep look at what student loan holders are able to do and to determine payment based on that. >> will have to end there. as the save plan moves forward, legal issues before. perhaps, we will have that down the road. she is with the university district of columbia.

and as director of government policies, john smith discussed the book underserved. harnessing the principles of lincoln in or reconstruction efforts today's forgotten communities. and the university of notre dame law professor talks about the supreme court decision in war versus author. this is part of a weeklong series. she spends washington journal, join in the conversation live on

c-span, c-span now or online at c-span.org. >> during the 2022 2023 u.s. supreme court term, the justices ruled on some of the most controversial topics. c-span will examine some of those cases involving voting rights, affirmative action, antidiscrimination, executive power and election laws. friday night, and more versus harper, the supreme court most it cannot regulate that -- without checks and balances including the course. >> c-span is your unfiltered

view of government, funded by these companies and more, including comcast. comcast is partnering with a thousand community centers so students from low income families can get the tools they need to be ready for anything. comcast supports c-span as a public service, along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> c-span shop.org is c-span's online store. browse through our latest collection, payroll, books, and accessories. there's something for every c-span fan. every purchase helps support our nonprofit operations. shop now or anytime as c-span shop.org. >>