that? guest: as i have reiterated, i think that all of these stories really let the dire circumstances of many -- really reflect the dire circumstances of many black americans throughout the u.s.. policy needs to address the root issue of racism. that includes raising the minimum wage, protecting workers' right to unionize, federal reparations programs for descendants of enslaved africans, access to voting, freedom from over policing. i think all of these buckets are not only ways that we can make right the demands of the march

on washington but also make very significant strides forward for racial progress and equity. host: you can read the report at cpi.org. adewale maye is a policy and research analyst. , powered by cable. >> washington journal continues. host: we are joined by michael tanner who is a senior fellow at the institute for research on equal opportunity. welcome back to washington journal. many folks have seen you over the years on this program and this network with the cato institute for many years. you made the move over to the foundation for research on equal opportunity. what prompted that move? guest:guest: what prompted it is the unique focus that the foundation has, which is lower

income americans and how we can best utilize individual liberty and free markets to empower people at the lower end of the income scale and find ways we can create more equity in america. host: we started this program asking our viewers on progress inequality in the 60 years since

guest: reparations is not a frivolous idea. african-americans don't play in a level playing field today much of that is due to government policies that we pursued as a country for centuries. those consequences are still playing out. it's not a frivolous idea but it's also one that is not practical in many aspects. it will be divisive and it will be counterproductive because the money need to pay reparations will create hardships. there were other paths we can take to increase the opportunity that african in generally in low

income people regardless of race have. that includes things like reading more educational choice and giving parents more control over a child's education, dealing with police abuses and over incarceration, dealing with inclusionary zoning so african-americans can move into more neighborhoods and encouraging black entrepreneurship and looking at the barriers that prevent african-americans with becoming full partners in the economy. those are things we can do that are more politically attainable than reparation. host: why do you think the idea of a school choice in this country gets to be so controversial? guest: a very powerful interest in terms of the teachers unions which oppose it but to also have people who love their local school. many talk about their schools being bad in their neighborhood but the local school is something they love.

it's hard to making those type of changes. the schools simply are not as good in the african-american been to these as a white neighborhood. you can move to the suburb because of exclusionary zoning. there's something wrong there. we should be talking about what's best for children, not what's best for school systems. host: we talked about home ownership as well in the last segment and you mentioned exclusionary zoning in the decades long effective things like that, redlining. the biden administration is made a push to incentivize local dates and localities to get rid of some of the zoning barriers. do you agree with efforts like that? guest: some of what the biden administration is trying to do with the fair housing act is more been counting than i would like to see. there are things we can do to

tell local communities they will not get federal subsidies for housing if they continue to pursue policies that drive up the cost of housing. the localities that refuse to adjust their zoning laws to make multifamily housing available, they will have to face some penalties in terms of finances. host: our guest is michael tanner and we welcome your calls and comments. (202) 748-8001 for the mountain and pacific time zones. does this change your focus on the issues you are most concerned about? guest: years ago and we've talked about entitlement and things of that nature which i care deeply about because we don't want to rob the legacy of our children but i think it's more important we do with the fact that we have too much poverty in this country and too

much inequality in this country and many to focus on how we can best raise people from the bottom up. host: on this 60th anniversary of the march on washington, what other areas, we talked about housing, what other areas have blacks made the most progress? guest: i certainly think we are seeing a larger number black entrepreneurs today. they moved into business in ways they could not in the 60's and what have you. we have a growing black middle-class. we have more blocks going to college and university. we have a number of things where african-americans have made advances but in all areas, we can do better. host: did the trump or biden administration focus on doing enough to incentivize that? guest: neither of those are doing enough of the federal level but we need to look at the state and local level like occupational licensing laws and occupational zoning.

we need to look at something as simple as who gets a liquor license and who doesn't. all of those things still have legacies out there that need to be overcome. host: why do those things continue today? guest: powerful special interest, the status quo is very powerful. people benefiting from the situation now always resist changes and a lot of it is education. we need to teach people there are alternatives. host: in terms of generational wealth, home ownership the biggest factor in that. how do we encourage and expand not just black homeownership but black generational wealth? guest: a lot of homeownership, where you can buy what housing you can buy is impacted by local zoning laws and other regulations. many of these actually grew out of racial segregation in the early part of the 20th century. they were deliberately designed

to keep african-americans out of their communities. even the g.i. bill was basically -- did not benefit african-americans because of the way zoning laws and segregation work. we need to overcome that today and break down those laws and build more housing and lower the cost of housing generally allowing people to move freely around the country. those are things we can do today. host: blacks were denied the benefits after world war ii, particularly the homeownership benefit, would it be proper for the government to address that in some form of reparations but maybe some form of programs to assist black homeownership? guest: i think we can do that with -- without being racially specific. if we break down the laws that prevent black from buying to certain areas would be helpful. in general, we have to look at

-- the laws today, we got rid of the stuff that was racist on its face in government policy. today, we have the follow-up those policies that exist in the pass and he to make changes to encourage people to break down those legacies that still exist. host: let's get to our phone calls, (202) 748-8001 the line for the eastern and central time zones, mountain and pacific region. george is going from tennessee, you're on. caller: hello, i would like to know how many families live around the neighborhood where he lives. he seems high on his horse. guest: why is that important, what is your point? caller: the point is, he sounds like he is putting down

everybody in the united states. how about him, where does he live? does he have black neighbors and black families around him? guest: as a matter of fact, the majority families on my street are people of color either african-american or latino. host: there you go, george. louise is up next in rose hill, north carolina. louise, you are on. you are on the air. caller: i just wanted to say i own a home here but i have noticed here -- i am black -- there is a way they are trying to keep us from owning homes here. i don't mind paying taxes but we

pay city and county taxes. that is hard for us trying to own a home. that is one way of losing your home. also, they devalue our houses. it's less than what the white house is our that was the comment i wanted to make. host: thank you. guest: i think property taxes are definitely a burden on low income homeowners. many policies we think of as being progressive actually fall hardest on people at the bottom end of the income scale. we need to be careful that we are not simply enacting progressive policies while making ourselves feel good. host: carol caller also mentioned, she said there were lower appraisal rates for some of the houses owned by african-americans in that neighborhood. guest: i cannot speak to nurse

-- to her neighborhood but i can say there has been reports of that and other examples of that being prevalent. i've seen many reports of that and i'm not prepared to argue that. host: rodney in dallas, you are on. caller: hey, gentlemen. there are two ways of looking at the racial experience. i think we are getting one side this morning. you can either look at it as blacks will be perpetual victims of their history or there are perhaps some things the black amenity needs to look at in their own community. earlier this year, there was a black conservative summit with bob woodson and shelby spiel and larry elder and one of the things -- a couple of things shelby points out in her book is that in schools, blacks, for some reason, it is not cool to

be the smartest kid in the room. it's not cool to learn. it's not cool to compete. when we preach perpetual victimization, there is no way you are going to achieve. we totally ignore merit. the thing larry elder points out is that currently, 70% of all black children that are born every month in america are born without a father. when you look at the asian community for instance, the emphasis on pushing their asian american children to the forefront and be the best even though they may grow up and be immigrants and grew up in poor areas, the message they send to their kids as you can be the best and they also are the best. in the black immunity, we say you are a victim and there's no way you can achieve. i think we've spent trillions of dollars through the great society with all these programs.

it's almost insulting the blacks cannot move further up the economic chain than they have. america is made an enormous investment in trying to equalize opportunity in america. it's sort of offense if we keep saying year after year and decade after decade that america needs to do more and more. i think we need to look inwards to the black community then keep the image of perpetual victimization. guest: i don't necessarily see african americans as victims. they have risen in this society. today we have people who are business leaders and people were influential in many ways and political leaders and so on. african-americans can have achieved but we also need to look at the policies of the past and their legacy and we need to look at the policies today. >> we will leave this program for live coverage of today's white house press briefing.