coverage on the c-span network, c-span now, or online at c-span.org. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. >> healthy democracy doesn't just look like this. it looks like this. where americans can see democracy at work. where citizens are truly informed. a republic thrives. get informed straight from the source. on c-span. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. from the nation's capital, to wherever you are. the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span, powered by cable. >> joining us is the president of american enterprise institute robert dore talking about multiple issues, including campaign 2024, the future of conservatism.

thank you for joining us. >> glad to be here. >> it is not the first time we've had people from your organization on, but how do you define where your position is when it comes to political positioning? >> it is a community of scholars. they take their own views on various issues. we don't have institutional positions. we have a perspective that is kind of right of center. we believe in free market and free people, the strong american role in the world. they are all independent players in their particular field. they call every issue as they see them. >> where do you see -- as far as conservativism overall, you can even take it down to the republican party, where is it and what are the influencing factors? >> it is divided. it has been in the past. it is not that new. between the free market, freedom

focused emphasis on having less regulation, lower taxes, a strong american role in the world, are optimistic and positive, and the future of america. more populous, more nationalist, more gloomy about america and our future and present circumstances, more willing to use governments to intervene in the economy. and very much less willing to be -- have active american forces around the world. that is not entirely new, but it is particularly open between conservatives right now. populist and more traditional conservatives, freedom focused conservatives. >> what do you think was the cause of that divergence? are there many causes? guest: it goes back a long time. it has to do with conservative supporters.

the constituency of the republican party has turned more towards working class and more people with a high school education, really no more. working americans. they are much more inclined to support a stronger government intervention in the economy, much more inclined to be very strongly protective of entitlements. very reluctant to see the u.s. get involved in wars around the world. >> those two sides you are talking about, do you think it is playing out in this campaign or campaign 2024? >> it is a little bit. i think all of the candidates are speaking on various aspects in different ways. you see it most clearly in the exchanges between with vice pret pence, where they had a dialogue

about their attitude about the current condition of america, whether they were positive if america could solve their problems were quite negative. it is also in the battle between president trump and various other candidates, where some of the other candidates are more like the freedom focused conservatives than they are the nationalist or populist. host: you can ask him questions on the phone line. independent --if you wish to text us, (202) 748-8003 is the number two call. since you talked about it, a lot of stories written about, swami leading out of the debate. what do you think is the fascination with him?

guest: i think he has a style that took over this stage. he is also saying things, when it comes to foreign affairs, that are far out of the mainstream of any conservatives. i think the bigger news that came out of the debate is the performance of governor nikki haley. she really did do the best of all the candidates, in my judgment. the polls seemed to show that. the person who did the worst was donald trump. his support went down after the debate. him not being there actually hurt him. it gave other candidate the opportunity to shine. i think nikki haley is the one that took the most advantage of that. she had a compelling statement about abortion. she gave a very strong condemnation of his position involving ukraine.

she was the first of all candidates and most direct about saying while she supported trump when she would -- trump when he was president, she was not afraid to challenge his record on entitlement spending, so i thought she just came across as the strongest, most balanced candidate in the debate, and i think that is what the voters thought as well. host: what camp does she fall in? guest: she has a little bit of both. she served in the trump administration, and she understands the concerns of the working class republicans that want the government to respond to their needs and not feel left out. at the same time, she has a broader view of the world at large. she is also --she can speak to people who feel a little bit

shunned by the republican party, under president trump, people who are minorities. she has an appeal, which is what republicans need. what has been successful in the past -- what unites them all is what is going on in the democratic party. and there, there is a lot to unite them. there is discontent and emphasis on the woke issues, a rejection of free speech and a rejection of her race. there is a constant desire to help people who struggle in poverty with money, and not employment. all of those things are something that both types of conservatives are united in their opposition against democrats. i think evan or haley has the opportunity to make that unification take place and then

take the keys to the democrats. host: you are talking about governor haley, but do any of them emerged as a potential or serious challenge to former president trump? guest: governor desantis. it is still a ways off from iowa, new hampshire --a lot can happen in a lot will happen. i think it is premature to say that it is resolved or over. the national polls do not actually reflect what is happening. that is where the first part of this campaign will take place. i think some of the candidates that are not capturing the imagination of the voters should think about stepping out, but desantis is still in the race and so is nikki haley. i do not want to prejudge, but i

think you are beginning to see where the debate is going to take place between which candidates. host: can you elaborate? guest: it is the same in new hampshire. the numbers are much different. polls are not always right and there is still time to change them through the action of a political race. that is what democracy is about and we should enjoy it. it is one of the great qualities of america that we have these. i thought the debate was good. there was a lot of questioning and there were issues about the rule of debate, but there were

some real issues to engage with. it is good for america. host: if you want to ask questions, the numbers are on your screen. john in ohio is starting us off. he saves as the president. >> i used to be a democrat, but i am now independent because i think both the democrat, the democrats and republicans are both on the right. i think there is a make --there is a misconception about that. host: let me stop you there. we try to keep rules when it

comes to people calling. if you are going to call, pick a line that best represents you. defined a lot of that happening in your circle? guest: there is a change. as governor haley said in the debate, president trump is very unpopular and has had everlasting in campaigns. the people that he chose lost in maces that republicans thought that they could win. i think that there is a group of republicans and conservatives who are uncomfortable with trump , and it may not be more than 20% of the republican party or electric, that that will decide

elections. if you lose 20% of your voters, you will not win. conservatives uncomfortable with trump are going to vote against him, if he is the nominee, and that will be damaging to republican candidates, not only in the presidential race but reese's in the senate across the country. it is true that the base is solidly behind him, and that is fine. that is their view. but to ignore a big chunk of the conservative world that is very unhappy with him and say, it doesn't matter. we are going to go forward with him, it could be damaging to their process in the fall. the fact of the matter is, if you believe the saying that trump supports come a stronger border and protecting entitlements, working to bring back manufacturing, if you want

them to take place, you are more likely to be successful in winning those to be, if you support a candidate who can win. it is kind of self-destructive for the eight --for the issues that they care about for them to stick with a candidate who will have a hard time in the general election. >> how much will that be attributed to legal issues -- host: how much of that is exhibited to legal issues? guest: a lot of it. americans are comfortable that they seem to be ganging up on him. the power of prosecution, the district attorney in manhattan --they are an extremely powerful entity and no one is really comfortable with that situation. on the other hand, it is a distraction.

the evidence in those cases are troubling. he made serious mistakes, bad mistakes, and that is going to come out and limit his ability to be a successful candidate in a general election, and i think primary. host: leslie, you are on with our against this morning. caller: thank you for c-span. when are we going to see a combined effort of going against white, racist hate? we do not hear nothing. you do not have any problem going against drag queens who are not going around murdering people. when are we going to see a rejection of that hate from white racists in the country, from you conservatives who are

also supposed to be christian? guest: i am with you and that we have to speak out against this violence. i have done it all my life. i worked in social services for 20 years in new york state and new york city. i devoted my life to helping low income americans, white, black, hispanic. my father was involved in the civil rights movement. i do not think it is fair to say that republicans or conservatives do not speak out against this crazy racism. of course we do. it is terrible and not becoming. nikki haley has a good record of handling violence that took place in her state when she was governor. she condemned it. so do many conservatives and republicans. this is something that we are united on, satellite -- so i do not accept that premise that

conservatives are not strong enough against this kind of violence. the democratic party history is not that great on this either. not long ago, it was the democrats who are the supporters of the old jim crow. it is not fair to condemn conservatives and republicans of being racist. that is just not correct. host: because he referenced shooting in jacksonville, is there a washington way to solve this, or are there other factors that have to be in play to resolve these kinds of incidents? guest: i am not an expert on gun legislation. i definitely think it is an aspect of what is going on, and involving specific individuals. it is hard to solve this from washington, but we have our country and through social media , hollywood, and media, too much

of a celebration of violence. it is definitely undermining the mental health of americans. i think we have a mental health issue in the u.s., and that can be solved through federal funding, but mostly through state and local efforts to make sure that the people exhibiting behavior that shows clear sign of mental illness, their issues can be addressed. host: rob is. -- rob is next. caller: all the republicans on the debate missed the point when that young gentleman called in to get their opinion on how to combat climate change. they missed the point about that and i think that is an important issue. guest: i think you are right. there is a divide between people

on the right and left, and the people on the right are worried that our reaction to concerns about climate change are going to be leading to policies and situations for americans that are actually worse than what the climate change is causing them. this is through an energy policy. it is damaging to americans, damaging to poor americans and it could be damaging to poor people around the world, so i do not think that they missed the point. i think they were indicating that they were not climate change fear mongers. that is what they think is the policy of the biden administration. are we in a situation where we have to do radical changes to area economy that will be harmful to americans, in order to address this?

or can we address this anymore rational, step-by-step way? that is a debate that will take place during the course of the fall campaign. there will be a divide between the democratic approach and the republican approach. caller: i was listening to it. we absolutely do have a mental health issue in the u.s., but the sad truth is we had about 22,000 homicides the u.s. last year and 90% of them occur in 17 neighborhoods in our country. the really sad truth is, is the attempted homicide rate is 10 times that number in those same neighborhoods. broken families, drug addiction and gang violence.

that is the real stat on the homicide rate. outside of that, it is tragic when we have a mental health crisis in the country and nobody cares about it. my question is --i will jump off to hear your response. do you believe that the american enterprise institute --d believe that what was conducted between 2016 and 2020, regarding nominee trump and then president trump, and now again nominee trump is the unconstitutional activity carried out by the fbi, the doj, as well as the dnc that created the dossier against trump? of course, covering up the hunter biden laptop, burying

that story --d believe those activities were carried out by our government and by the dnc were unconstitutional, criminal and bottom-line election interference? >> i think you are absolutely right about crime in the u.s. and crime leading to homicide. it does take place in certain neighborhoods and it should be addressed with stronger police activity in those communities. when we increased our level of policing where there was a high homicide rate, we drove down the homicide we dramatically and we have gone backwards on that policy. that will also be an issue where there is a divide between --between republicans and democrats.

on the second point, i absolutely agree that there are aspects of the investigation and special counsel investigation into trump's activities that were bad. the fbi behaved very badly and so did the justice department. i think that some of them have recognized that. reports have come out to acknowledge their mistakes and i think they have taken actions to address them. i think the behavior was terrible and is something that needs to be constantly examined, so it does not happen again. host: to the extent that you think it swayed the election in any way or because the election to be illegitimate? guest: no, i do not think it swayed the election.

frankly, trump's arrival of those investigations, and a way -- the way those elections were depicted, i think that helps trump. i think there was a perception from people who could have voted either way, that something bad happened with the fbi that led to them being more supportive of him. just like now, there are a lot of voters who are very uncomfortable with the number of prosecutions taking place against trump. the 2020 elections happened three years ago and now we are having prosecutions that make americans who do not follow this closely or do not appreciate, or maybe who are legitimately concerned about the way a prosecutor acts, well, why now? i think that is legitimate.

these prosecutors have work to do. they have to make their case. it is to be seen, how that will play out. i have concerns about the atlanta prosecution. i think the argument that mr. meadows made the other day is pretty strong. that prosecution also has the chance to potentially fall apart. it is hard to convict people of a crime in the u.s., and prosecutors better have their cases solid or their failure will lead to further erosion of confidence in the rule of law in the u.s. host: joining us for this conversation, back in december when the republicans won the house, you wrote a piece saying they should ditch the

performance politics and get serious about economics issues. eight months in, how are they doing? guest: eight months in -- maybe i did not hear your question. republicans or democrats? host: republicans. you wrote about them. guest: i think it worked out pretty well for republicans. people did not think speaker mccarthy was going to be able to get a republican only vote in the house. he did. they got a little progress on work requirements, which is something that they wanted badly. president biden agreed to it. i think the republican house, in the way that it is handling the debt ceiling debate has done well in that regard. given the inflation situation,

the effort to limit spending and control spending is something that needs to be done because federal spending is what is causing the rise in inflation. host: for the house comes back, they have to deal with pending bills. if they could come together --are you concerned about a shutdown resulting as a part of that? guest: we have gotten used to the possibility of a shutdown because the politicians cannot work it out in time to avoid that, so i think it could happen. that is politics. that is the way our democracy works. i think it is a better system than any other, but it is frustrating and difficult, but it is congress's role and the president cannot just say, i want what i want, and i'll get it.

there has to be compromise. there has to be recognition that we live in a country where people have different views and perspectives, and we need to reconcile them and move forward. the idea that one side or the other should have their entire way, all the time, every time, even when they do not have the vote, is wrong. it is exciting, problematic debate in the coming months about spending, and they will work it out, but while they are working it out, it will be frustrating and difficult. host: democrat line. caller: sure, buddy. i like how the republicans pretend to care about the economy, the border and spending, only when they're out of office, when they are not in control. the republican party is a disgrace and they are a criminal

enterprise now, trying to denigrate the department of justice, denigrate lawfulness and the constitution, everything those clowns are doing is projection. he is projecting, just like the republicans do. host: instead of insulting him, do you have a question? caller: congress controls the purse and the president should not just be doing whatever he wants. i'm looking at this guy and the african-americans that called earlier and called them the violent racists of the country, he was right. after that, a conservative called in and was expressly showing how angry and vigilant they are against the constitution.

guest: i spent my life in new york city and i worked with democrats and republic cans and i do not think that rhetoric against each other is helpful. i try really hard to avoid that and recognize the perspective of both sides and try to reason together to solve problems. host: your background on social services and poverty. what could republicans be doing in congress or elsewhere to highlight the issue and make changes towards it? guest: i think republicans and democrats should focus on helping people who are not in the workforce get into the workforce and earn wages that are able to move their economic situation up. they need to work on helping people get the training and skills that they need to get even higher wages. workforce development programs that increase the skills of

workers can be very successful in raising wages significantly above the poverty line, but the first step has to be employment. that is a divide between democrats and republicans. employment is key, then once you are working, if wages are not enough to support your family, we can supplement those wages, but that is the path. but not benefits alone. the economy that has a lot of jobs available, there are too many people on the sidelines, not working, and when they are not working, they are likely to be poor and they are not setting an example for their family. they are not florida governor ron desantis is giving an