[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023] host: good morning it is monday september 18, with eight working days left until the government funding expires the house republicans have crafted a proposal to keep the government

running 30 days while they work out a larger measure. with a razor thin majority in the house this doesn't appear to have inform republican support. we will get your take on the spending negotiations in the first 90 minutes of "washington journal." democrats democrats. 202-748-8000, republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. or 202-748-8003 or post on facebook.com/c-span or x with the handle @cspanwj. we will get to your takes but first last night a deal was announced between the hard tpraoeupltd caucus in the house and moderate colleagues the main street caucus.

there are about 70 main street caucus members republicans and 40 conservative freedom caucus. the two sides were negotiating on a way to avoid a government shutdown. these are some provisions in the deal. current funding would stay at current levels through october 31. there would be an 8% cut across the board the next 30 days except for pentagon spending. it excludes veterans affairs and disaster relief. noish aid for ukraine or disaster relief in this short-term proposal. the senate said any short-term proposal needs to include aid for ukraine and disaster relief. it excludesish funds for federal nutrition programs walled wic, restarts border wall construction, restrbgts asylum

eligibility, reinstates family detention and increases penalties for visa overstays and other border security provisions. yesterday morning senate -- house speaker kevin mccarthy republican california was on the fox futures sunday show and he said he will bring this to the floor this week. this is what he had to say on the sunday show when asked about a way forward for house republicans. >> i understand the frustration we have with this administration but it is a difference of strategy. some say you should shut down but think about this. i have been through shutdowns and never seen somebody win one because you give all the power to the administration. but how are you going to win the arguments to secure the border if the border agents don't get paid. how do you win the argument to get even our own troops are not

paid. the greatest ability is finish the proposition work, give it the short time period and make the case to the american public. i promise you based upon this administration's policies along the border you have the mayor of new york becoming a border community. everybody wants this border secure. we will win that argument. i think that is the basis. you have a.o.c. being heckled in new york and every community feeling what is happening with fentanyl on the decisions and we have to stop that. host: speaker mccarthy yesterday. that was before a deal was announced. but this has been in the works between two factions of the house republican conference those conservative freedom caucus members and moderate republicans.

however, last night some conservatives were posting on x they were opposed. they can only lose four votes in the house. they need 218 to get it passed. here is what some of them put out. i have not seen the final deal but i hear a c.r. will be pushed for a 30 day extension with h.r.2 the secure the border act which i voted for minus the e-verify program and more ukraine funding. if the house thinks of adding h.r.2 sweetens for me to vote clearance of more ukraine to not oppose i'm a hard no. he is not exchanging border for ukraine funding. i'm sick of the d.c. back room deals to appease 61 in the senate. our job is to fund the u.s. and take care of the american people. i was not elected by overseas

others. some other reaction. here is dan bishop i'm with cory referencing cory's x post. no c.r. pass the damn bills appear roll back the crazy bureaucracy to pre-covid levels now. matt gates this continuing resolution to fund ukraine is at the trail of republicans, we must do better. and marjorie taylor green also posting last night negotiated by donaldsons and johnson no policy riders are in this c.r. so it is all the policies from last year's democrat appropriations with an 8% cut. plus the border bill but no e-verify. i'm a no. to money for ukraine, covid or

weaponized government is what she has said. that is some reaction from conservatives about these negotiations that happened behind closed doors. we want your reaction. there are eight working days until potential government shutdown. what do you think of the negotiations and what republicans want. they are negotiating with the biden white house and senate controlled by democrats. it has to get through congress and to the president's desk to avoid a government shutdown. former president trump sat down for an interview over the weekend it talk about many things ending with a potential government shutdown. listen. >> stay on this idea of what you mean by retribution. are you looking to apoint out an attorney general who would prosecute the people you tell them to prosecute? >> i'm looking to appoint a attorney general who will be tough on crime and fair.

>> speaker mccarthy said he was launching an impeachment inquiry into president biden. is this part of the retribution you seek? >> not at all. you look at the terrible things that have been happening with respect to biden. look at everything there are legitimate people and i watched one talking about a lot of different facets of what is going on and he was the one that said i guess there were 12 things but it looks like it is stone cold guilty and the contract is only one of the 12. this is the only one that doesn't implicate joe biden. >> did you talk to speaker mccarthy about this -- >> no. >> did you technical them that he should open a house -- >> i don't think he would do that based on me. >> did you talk to your republican allies on capitol hill and say --

>> no, i don't have to talk. they are more pro active than i am. >> do you think republican hardliners should abandon their threat to shut down the government over their spending priorities now that there is -- >> no, if they don't get a fair deal. we have to save our country. >> you support shutting down the government? >> if they can't make an appropriate deal. host: former president with his take with a potential government shutdown. now your turn to tell washington what you would like. cleveland, ohio, bruce. caller: good morning. i think this whole situation is ridiculous. a deal was cut earlier this year between kevin mccarthy and president biden. it was told to have been a done deal. now they are coming up with this new mess. kevin mccarthy is the worst two faced leader of the house i have ever seen and i'm 69.

i have never seen a speaker of the house act so wishy washy. it doesn't make sense. threatening to shut down the government, trump did that during husband administration and what did it get? the republicans are not republicans, they are fascists. banning books and this other crap? host: bruce is in cleveland. he was referencing the deal struck earlier between president biden and speaker mccarthy. from the washington times reporting republicans beef up border items in the spending proposal that would put forth last night the freedom caucus wants a top line spending level that is about $115 billion less than the $1.6 trillion agreed to in the debt limit deal with r deal. the resolve on this issue forced mr. mccarthy to cancel votes on

the annual defense spending bill last week which should have been a lay-up for conservatives. the house has advanced just one of the 12 annual spending bills that fund the government. one. the appropriations process made a stopgap spending bill the only option to avoid a partial shutdown when nonessential federal workers will be furloughed and some known essential services will stop. that is the lay of the end. patrick, independent, good morning from florida. caller: good morning. they are saying what will you tell washington. the people. stricter gun control or whatever you want to put on it. they want women to have abortion rights. completely ignored by washington. i'm sure this 45 minutes will be ignored by washington.

under the trump administration, houston, along the texas river, it floods out every two years. they got $50 billion. under the biden administration with the great state of texas put together a proper electrical grid, couldn't, they got $40 billion for frozen pipes. with interest that is up to $100 billion. won't take one dime of that. fdic, this free market limited government which is yelled on c-span, the guarantee bank account up to $250,000 when that bank blew up in california everybody is let's have unlimited fdic. i notice that last deal you talked about with mccarthy, the

farm state senators and reference ran down his office don't you dare take away the $40 billion in ethanol substances. and one last thing about the border. you talk about america's foreign policy. mexico is barely two steps above a narcoterrorist state and you have the ignorance to talk about america's foreign policy. what a joke. host: patrick talking at the beginning about disaster relief the white house and senate democrats have said that this short-term c.r. needs to include not only funding for ukraine which they have a price tag of an additional $20 billion for ukraine, but $16 billion for disaster relief aid. ronald in north carolina, republican. ronald, lets turn to you. caller: yes, i have called in.

i think if they keep sending money to ukraine, ukraine is going to keep sending money to joe biden's organized crime family. i think you need to stop it. host: we are talking about spending negotiations this morning. washington waking up this morning, house and senate back in session this week and they have to figure this out. they have eight working days to do so. let them know what you think. where do you want them to agree, where is the red lane for -- line for you. is it to keep the government open for a short amount of time while at the work out a larger deal? should that include funding for ukraine or disaster relief? do you agree it should have the border security provision. or do you disagree. susan on faculty there has to be accountability for the enormous amount of excess spending in our

country. like them or not the freedom caucus is hearing and acting on their constituents' voices. the others should take notice and to do the same for their voters. then joe on facebook maybe they should not have taken a six-week vacation referring to their august break. democrats as you know in the house are in the minority. if the speaker can and wants to, he would have to reach out to democrats in order to pass any continuing resolution if he can't get the conservatives on board. the leader for the democrats of new york also on the sunday show, he was on abc this week adds here is what he had to say about the potential shutdown. >> my expectation that we will continue to have conversations as we move forward. the top democrat on the

appropriations committee has our full confidence and we are ready, willing and able to talk about moving america forward. we have a vision to put people off politics. that is what we should be doing. that is why we were sent to washington, d.c. not to make an ideological point but make a difference. we are going to focus on making life more affordable, lower cost, better paying jobs, fighting for reproductive freedom and building an economy that works for every day americans. we urge our republican colleagues in the house to join us, stop fighting each other in the reckless reprehensible republican civil war and let's get to the business of the american people. >> you and mckaurtd talked about working together when he became speaker. if it comes to this motion to vacate and you hear matt gates

and other critics saying they are going to try to remove him as speaker. will democrats help bail mccarthy out? will you be there to help him or go with the effort to oust him? >> we haven't given it any thought one way or the other, because, john, as i indicated we will continue to focus on solving problems for the american people. if that moment presents itself we'll cross that bridge. but what we should be focused on is avoiding an unnecessary government shutdown that will hurt the economy to continue to recover which president biden has led a tremendous recovery to date. that shouldn't be interrupted because of partisan political gamesmanship. host: the minority leader democratic congressman hakeem jeffries from new york. you heard him being asked about if republicans were to move to oust kevin mccarthy from the

speakership would democrats help them. that is also on the table as the leader of the republican party kevin mccarthy tries to corral his conservative moderate conference to get behind a continuing resolution to keep the government open and keep negotiates on larger appropriations bills. the 12 appropriations bills that fund the federal agencies. congress has to pass them by a certain date. if they don't, september 30, midnight september 30, they either have to have a stopgap measure in place or the government shuts down. bob in south carolina, independent. let's get your take on this. good morning to you. caller: good morning. i appreciate you taking my call. good morning, c-span. i will give more of a libertarian point of view this

morning, something that is missing. i wish you had a libertarian line but -- host: you can call on the independents line. caller: i know but that kind of funnels people into both major parties. but that is ok. i have 98,000 reasons why we need a government shutdown to get the budget back in order. first off, inflation is destroying house holds. we know that. for too long the federal reserve has suppressed interest rates to inflate the economy. it inflated the housing market, stock market, and they have totally destroyed savings. they are still encouraging debt even with the rate hike.

people are still not saving. as inflation grows what a lot of people don't understand in this whole debt ceiling thing it is not a ceiling. right? all they are doing is keep raising it. that is not a ceiling. host: but we are talking about government funding. the debt ceiling -- caller: i understand. but where does the money come from? they are taking in record amounts of tax receipts but they can't cover the bills. it is a major ponzi. they are selling our creditors if you don't loan us more money you are not getting paid. the whole thing of keeping a ponzi scheme going is you don't let them know after you ponzi. host: bobby, i understand your point. we will get to the debt and deficit numbers later on in our last hour of the show. on facebook derrick says they

should shut down permanently. they have gone rogue. impeach everyone is what he said on facebook. you can join us on facebook.com/c-span and on x with the handle @cspanwj and text us first name city and state. from jerry in tennessee democratic caller. caller: yes, ma'am. republicans want to check it is social security and check the funding in ukraine. this is a dream come true for russia to protect funding for that. the children's free meals. what is it we are wanting to cut. that is the thing we need to look at. social security is pretty important to most people and that is what has been harped on.

host: but let me -- i want to make sure -- social security and medicare is mandatory spending. that is not touched here. we are talking about the discretionary side of the ledger. that is what congress has control over in the 12 appropriations bills and you are right, it is an 8% -- over the next month if this continuing resolution stopgap measure were to pass the one proposed last night by conservatives there would be an 8% caught for all nondefense spending excluding veterans affairs and disaster relief. while they negotiate a larger deal. now, house freedom caucus membersment the top -- members want the top number for the 12 appropriations bills to be $150 billion less than the $1.6

trillion agreed to between speaker mccarthy and president biden earlier this year. here is the congressman from tennessee another c.r. politics as usual, time to see in d.c., no brooks until we pass all the appropriations bill. another conservative saying this agreement announced last night, this draft proposal, not supporting it. north carolina independent, gary, what do you think? caller: i think that it goes down to a basic thing about being a human. people will hit themselves with a hammer and you ask them why they will say because it was good when i stop. when you have this attitude in america where it is some kind of crime to live humbly we call in

poor and give it negative names and invite poor people and peasants who are not advanced to a modern system and we are just setting them up for failure in this country. all of this spending comes about as people who are feeding their constituents to keep their jobs. it is that simple. it goes down to the basics. you see republicans seem like they have a lot of money, more than democrats. they tend to save more so they will argue more for cutting back. you see people who rely for their survival on certain benefits and they will be totally against it. it goes down to the very basic nature of human nature. host: gary, the previous caller

referring to the wic program, supplemental nutrition for women infants and children for low income families. this short-term agreement for the next 30 days would not allow additional funding for that program. the funding levels, there would be funding for the program but there's a proposal for additional funding and republicans say that should not be part of this continuing resolution. they added border security provisions like restarting the border walls restricting asylum eligibility, reason stating family detention and increasing penalties for visa overstays among other proposals. no funding for ukraine or disaster. no additional funding for ukraine and disaster relief. steven in michigan texted this is not a bipartisan bill. we don't need games.

we need them to actually govern. lets listen to congressman mike turner republican of ohio he discussed whether house republicans with support continuing funding for ukraine. here is what he had to say on cbs "face the nation." >> the house certainly and the republican caucus overwhelmingly supports aid for ukraine. there will be issues over what the administration has asked for adds what congress gives. speaker mccarthy made it clear the white house had you ever come to us and "washington post" on the package and not sent it to the capitol hill for dispensation. zelenskyy is a great spokesperson he makes the case better than anyone this is a fight for democracy and goals are well beyond ukraine. having him here will be persuasive. last time we had votes for aid for ukraine nearly 300 members voted in affirmative out of 435, a majority of republicans were

in the affirmative and i think that will continue. >> this is not going to complicate the vote to keep the government funded in november >> again, this is another essential item we have to do and this is not included in the budget. with the understanding though because everyone knew this is on your tv set every day and everyone knows this is ongoing and will require u.s. support. zelenskyy has high approval rating in the united states than any nationally elected official. >> on to the more conservative members. >> if you get 300 to 435 that is overwhelming. >> i hear you saying no government shutdown. >> i didn't say that. we will have to see when. ok. >> stay tuned. host: mike turner republican of ohio on face the nags saying

stay tuned, eight working days until potential government shutdown. you heard him talking about whether or not there's more money included in the stopgap measure for ukraine. from the "washington post" reporting what proposal doesn't include money for ukraine lawmakers don't propose stopping funds for the coronavirus or justice department which many republicans is unfairly targeting former president trump. republican leaders face the tack of unsuring the bill passes through threw razor then margin. democrats are not expected to help pass the bill. the first test for leaders will be a vote on a procedural hurdle known as the rule which sets parameters for debating the bill on the floor. members of the freedoms caucus and those who oppose mccarthy previously threatened voting against it. if he relies on democrats to approve a rule or final passage

it would anger far right lawmakers who spent that such a move would trigger a motion to vacate him from the speakership. so a lot on the line in washington. it is your turn it tell the lawmakers what -- turn to tell the lawmakers what you want them to do. john independence good morning to you. caller: this morning. thank you for what you do. i hope you are having a good day. host: thank you. caller: the very subjects you have spoken about this morning people only have to turn to the turn of the century. one of the things we were talking about the spending and balanced budget and everything like that, at the turn of the century we had a balanced budget. then a certain administration eliminated that. we have been paying for it ever since. another topic you have been talking about the people on the far right they want border security.

2013, more than 2/3 of the senate voted for a bill in which there was $40 billion allotted for increased borders security. essentially, that was 10 years ago and what it amounted to was the fact that the speaker of the house of a certain political party decided instead of negotiating what was going to happen and seeing what possibly could be the begs for both political parties, that they were not going to spook about it at all. so, what is going to improve with this? basically, we are being held hostage by a very small minority group in this congress and what it should come back to is the point of going back in history some of the best bills in this country were built on compromise. you don't get everything you want. even ronald reagan understood

that. you may not get everything you want but you may get it the next time. for them to be holding all these various things hostage and everything like that by a small minority, it is extremely wrong. host: an independent caller there. joyce is also independent in portland, oregon. before we hear from you, a reminder to everyone out there to please wait your 30 days before you call back in. because we want to get as many different voices as we can and we want as many people to participate as we can in this conversation, the conversations that we have every morning on the "washington journal"ment -- "washington journal." your thoughts on a potential government shutdown. host: i think it is --

caller: i think it is wrong. we have over 3 million people that live in this country and everybody has opinions and everybody thinks they should do this or that. but the small caucus, the freedom caucus people, they want to shut the government down, they want to impeach the president, tommy tuberville wants to holds up promotions we could go to war and our people are not ready. i don't believe we should have a shutdown. i think the caller from new york said you don't get everything you want but you need to compromise. we don't need no wall. we need to try to help these people that are trying to come here legally to do what we can to stop the trafficking and make everything pleasant for everybody, not just for a few. host: joyce saying a small number of republicans who are

insisting they get their way, referring to the freedoms caucus members. there are 40 of them in the house. there are 70 moderate republicans that make up the main street caucus. those were the two factions negotiates this agreement that was announced yesterday. it would keep funding at current levels for another month while they work out a larger deal. 8% across the deal cut on nondefense spending. and it would not allow for additional money for supplemental nutrition programs and would include a number of border security provisions. as we told you, there are some conservatives, enough right now it appears that this doesn't have the votes who are saying no, they don't like what was negotiated. we told you the reasons why. let's hear from ben in connecticut, independent.

hi, ben. caller: good morning. the government is broke, has been since 2018 when we were put in default. you people in the news don't tell people the truth. what we ought to do is shut there government down, all these illegals supposedly getting $2,200 a month and we are worried about ukraine? but the money goes over and comes back to politicians? shut it down. it is time to wipe there government out and start pressure. host: let's listen to mark warner democrat of virginia on the government shutdown saying it would be disaster for works in his state and the u.s. globally. listen to what he told "face the nation." >> i think that there is a general feeling that everybody is at on other's athletes and

mike turner and i work closely together but i do think i wish the house leadership would spend more time on what would happen with a government shutdown that makes us look bad around the world and in virginia where we have so many government contractors it would be a disaster. yet, the attention coming out of house leadership is on impeachment and putting forward things they know will never pass the senate in any bipartisan fashion and that is part of the underlying unease people feel. >> you believe we are headed for a government shutdown? >> i would like to say no but we are eight days away and we have not seen half the propositions bills. i hope and pray mccarthy will say i will throw over the far right and put together a bipartisan effort with the democrats and mainstream republicans to keep government funded. i think that would get 350 to

400 votes. host: mark warner talking about the potential government shutdown and what it would mean. we are asking you to tell the senators, house lawmakers, what you want them to do on it question. more of your calls coming up but first i want to let you know about the beginning of a new es here from c-span. books that shaped am new television series beginning tonight 9:00 watch the series in partnership with tor of congress. books that shaped america live to explore key works from american him. . will hear from featured experts who will discuss the impa the works and societial changes still talked out today. some of them we are featuring uding common sense by thomas pain. huckleberry finn, the eyes were books thathanged america on c-span, c-span our free

mobile video app or online at c-span.org. richard in athens, tennessee, republican. good morning, richard. host: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i was doing some reading the other day and ran across a c.b.o. report that was saying we are going to spend this year about $650 billion on interest on the debt. within eight years we will be spending $1.4 trillion on interest on the debt, which will surpass every other expenditure -- medicaid, medicare, military spending and social security. there is a financial cliff coming that nobody speaks anything about. we cannot continue to spend money that we don't have. host: all right. richard in athens, tennessee.

michelle in jessup, pennsylvania, says no more funding for ukraine in a text message to us about this debate. that is what conservative republicans are saying as well. it is not part of this latest short-term agreement put forward. richard in the villages in florida saying how about raising taxes to match spending instead of shutting down the government. that would be novel, pass a spending plan without our grandchildren's credit card. overin favorite, north carolina to congress, do your job, pay the bills. dennis in florida democratic caller good morning. caller: good morning, ladies and gentlemen. i have been watching c-span for a long time and what has always surprised me is this august recess when the government in

essence shuts down. the workers for the senators and house members still are there in the offices, but i don't understand -- you say they have only got eight days. i had to look at my calendar. there are 13 days until the 30th of september. i'm sorry, when i was still a contributing worker, when we worked, there were no saturdays or sundays. we didn't lop a -- hop a plane or hop a train and go home. you stayed there, worked, got the job done because, wait a minute, there was a deadline to get the work done. host: yes. you notice then our date line this morning is eight working days. we are not -- host: there are 13 working days. there is no saturday and sunday.

rosh hashana has already passed. so, boys and girls of the u.s. congress, i noted that the senate has been passing legislation and their jobs but the house of representatives -- wait a minute, the republicans are back in charge. and every time i watch the republicans in charge, they seem to can't get the job done. now, are they unwilling to spend our tax dollars, or are they just unwilling to do their jobs? it is kind of hard to watch as, way. that building that sits right behind you, beautiful building, the air conditioner was running in that building all the time that the congress was gone.

that costs money. i know about air conditioning. i spent years of my life dealing with air conditioning. ladies and gentlemen, the money that is necessary to run our government needs to be spent and pay your taxes. host: i have to get in other voices. dave, lynchburg, virginia, independent. caller: good morning. i just wish the congress or reference would do their jobs and -- representatives would do their job the way people in business run a business. perhaps some of the moderate reference on both sides could -- representatives could get around term limits to build credibility and figure out what needs to be done and try to run the government look a business runs. if a business is run like the government is run they couldn't

be in business. host: ventura, california, john is a republican. what do you say on this? caller: good morning, and what i say is that i'm really proud of the republicans that are standing strong, $115 billion is not that big of a cut over a $5 trillion cut and first step of getting our country back in order. so, i like -- i think the republicans should stand strong and the biden -- he set kind of a culture of spending a and we have to stop that in the democrat party and stand up to it. so i'm all for cutting $115 billion and all aid to ukraine because it is just a money pit that is polluting earth and if you are for a green new deal you should all be against the war in

ukraine because it is polluting all the electric cars and offsetting the gains we have made and you have to stop that war. so, i'm for the cuts and cutting ukraine and strengthening the border and i think the republicans should stand strong. we have had a bloated government too long and we need to stop it right now. host: frank is in cincinnati, ohio, democratic caller. what do you want to tell the lawmakers? caller: well, you have $33 trillion [inaudible]. host: frank, i apologize, very difficult to understand you. you were breaking up quite a bit. tom, north carolina, republican. host: good morning. what the democrats and

republicans have known this day is coming every year and they always wait until the last minute. why don't they start in january or february and get some of this stuff and some of these committees and not wait until the last minute. that's way don't understand. thank you very much. host: jonathan, new jersey, independent. caller: hi. so, last i checked we have a sovereign currency, we print our own money, right? host: your point? caller: comparing it to a credit card, unless i can create my own credit card it doesn't make sense to compare the government deficit to overspending your credit card or to a private business. it can't print its own money, which the government can do.

most federally funded government programs, the government sending a number to the federal reserve and the federal reserve just puts the money into a bank account that is set up. in terms of like government deficit and everything, we don't have any programs that actually like create a profitable workforce. or education is for profit. our medical, everything is for profit. our healthcare. the important thing -- even the infrastructure is just hanging out to private companies for a profit. it doesn't make any sense how you can complain about government deficit we nothing that they fund except for, you know, the half dozen states that consistently and constantly want to get rid of all the programs that actually help our people are constantly on the chopping block. what do you expect to happen?

this level of dysfunction and misery that american people face is never helped. it is always up for the chopping block. host: and on the chopping block as jonathan said understood this stopgap measure that is being proposed by house republicans would be 8% across the board nondefense spending cut while they negotiate a larger deal. this excludes the pentagon funding, veterans affairs department and disaster relief. it would keep current funding at the same levels through october 31. it excludes additional funds for federal nutritional programs and restarts borders wall construction, restrict aaluminum, reinstates family detention and ups the ante for visa overstays and other borders security. no additionaled a for ukraine or

disaster relief. this was negotiated between the hard right as roll call and others refer to the freedom caucus, conservative freedom caucus and moderate republicans in the main street caucus. call early from ooze democrat. caller: how are you doing, ma'am? i was listening to the individual talking about running the government like a business. that is the problem. especially when you talk about the republicans. they always want to talk about business but they keep the neo-nazis in their group. how i'm going to think about a republican when you have knee yes nazis running around. i'm in phoenix, ma'am. host: tom in bethlehem, pennsylvania, republican your thoughts on the government shutdown. caller: good morning.

let's see, as to the government shutdown it should happen. we have to stop spending money we don't have. this is ridiculous. this happens year in and year out. if joe biden can't see that this needs to stop when for so long he has not done anything at the border wall, all of a sudden his administration wants to. same situation with the shutdown. we are tired of this. thank you, have a good day. host: bob, rhode island, independent. what do you say, bob? caller: good morning. i haven't spoken with you in a long time. but i felt i wanted to try to get in this morning because one person said it, i heard a few callers back, you don't hear too

much focus about need, the needs and how we are going to pay for them and it has to do with probably taxes or means to raise the money to support government. i understand and think about -- i realize it is extremely complicated. at the same time, nobody wants to pay more taxes, but there are countries in the world that figured out how to pay for healthcare, how to pay for education and we have not figured it out in this country. i really hope that we can hear more about paying for the needs that we have and then that is going to mean sacrifice on more

and maybe the middle class but the payments for the 1 /of 1% -- i look at needs and inclusion. including the people that need taking care of people. i thought that is what government is about. i know it is to protect the country and that is all important and very important. but it is also important to live a decent life. i have said more than i spec'd to say so i will leave it at that, greta. host: steve in massachusetts, republican. we will hear from you. good morning. caller: hi, how are you? host: doing well. caller: every time the government shuts down we obama and government shut down it affected all the americans by cutting down the national parks, closing them, making americans

hurt. i wonder if the government shut down are all the illegals in the hotels going to have it leave or we keep paying for them to be in hotels all over the united states? host: daniel in florida, democratic caller. daniel, your turn. caller: yes, i heard a couple people say something to the effect that raising taxes would help. i'm willing to pay more taxes for my country to survive. i don't mind. thank you very much. host: daniel's thought there. willing to pay more as lawmakers here in washington grapple with continuing funding the government. their deadline is september 30, midnight. if they do not have some sort of

funding measure in place, whether that is a long-term funding for the fiscal year or a stopgap measure to give them more time to negotiate that larger bill, then there would be a partial government shutdown. want to share other stories with you morning. we have time left in the conversation so keep dialing in. we want to know your take. there are eight working days until the potential government shutdown. from the "new york times" front passenger i want to show you this picture they are featuring. ahead of the u.n. meetings this week which president biden will stand thousands in new york city demand world leaders stop fossil fuel drilling. you can look at the signs and look at the age of some of these participants protesting in new york city as world leaders gather there for the united nations general assembly and president biden will attend. in connection to that picture is

this headline. biden plans a crackdown on industries emissions. if he wins a second term his climate policies will take aim at steel and cement plants, factories and oil renine resist heavily polluting industries that have never before had to rein in their greenhouse gases, now controls on facilities that advisors have bun to map out to combine with actions on power plants and vehicles to meet the goals of eliminating fossil fuel pollution by 2050. industrialized nations must hit the target if the world has the hope to avoid the most strong impacts from climate change. there is that story in the "new york times." i will show you the front page of the washington times american oil producers set to break records despite biden's climate

agenda. domestic oil production is forecast to reach an all time high by the end of the year even if president biden announces plans to blunt output and consumption. presidents look control over short term and cost at the pump but analysts say he has caused long-term damage to production with micked signals between the green energy policy and call for more oil to blunt high gas prices. his latest environmental regulations announced earlier this month canceled all trump era oil and gas leasts combined with the other protections and proposal to block new drilling in 13 million acres in an area of alaska no new oil and gas leasts will be -- leases. republicans blame the policy for inflating gas prices but he is

expected to break pre-pandemic records in the coming weeks and days. being continue to read this from the washington times this morning. back to seattle, washington, independent. good morning to you. we are talking about a potential government shutdown. republicans have put forth one idea draft poem to keep the funding going for another 30 days while they work out a larger deal. what do you think? caller: well, i don't think it will hurt anything to shut down the government. it never has. everyone gets their pay. it is inconvenient and -- for some fox -- but i think they have to have fiscal responsibility. and they don't have it. i think that we are going to be absolutely busted by the time biden and his activists get through with there nation. i'm appalled at the free spending. there isn't a fiscal

conservative in the democrats anywhere. they are just spend, spend, spends. i just got a note from my representative that called adam smith and he will spend more money and build something else. look, we don't -- according to the reporting on c-span, we are down on our receipts. they are not collecting all the tax money they would have so we don't have as were monday to spend. but no, we will borrow from every other country around. that is not good fiscal policy and i oppose everything the democrats are doing. host: art, hyattsville, maryland, independent. caller: thank you for taking my call. i would like to respond to the man who wants to voluntarily pay more taxes for everyone. he can do so voluntarily by sending money to the bureau of

national debt a public didn't in parkersburg, west virginia, doesn't require raising of taxes. he can do so on his own. host: cornell, water works, new jersey, democratic caller. good morning. caller: good morning, greta. the problem is that it is only the republicans do that when the democrats are in office that they threaten to shut the government down. when republicans are in office, they run up the bills, donald trump's administration spent more in four years than most administrations spend in eight. and it is mighty funny that they

say that they want to cut nutritional aid or the programs. any time you have margaret taylor green and george santos calling the shots and mccarthy as the one who is really a gelded speaker. he is held hostage. they are running a circus because the bills have to be paid, bottom line. like i said earlier, it is only we the republicans are in office the democrats don't hold them hostage like playing a game. it is theater. what they are trying to do is to string this out until the next election and it is really sad. it is really sad, greta.

host: the caller referring to conservative position the house the freedom caucus who are insisting on spending cuts. they insist on a lower level of federal budget than what was negotiated between president biden and kevin mccarthy the didn't limit deal in may. yesterday house conservatives and house moderate republicans announceed a draft deal, and it includes an 8% cut of philanthropy defense spending. it includes border security provisions. it includes no additional money for nutritional programs. already though as we have shown you this morning, house conservatives posting on x they are not in favor of this deal and kevin mccarthy can't afford to lose more than a handful of

votes unless earn to get democrats to help. here is another conservative for months i have made it clear that i will not be supporting a c.r. and this week is no different. a c.r. is a continuing of nancy pelosi's budget and joe biden's policiesment we were assured in january we were not going to use the democratic gimmicks to fund the government. marjorie taylor green put out a text saying i'm a no on this saying that she not only opposes more funding for ukraine but she wants also no funding for covid and for the justice department because some conservatives view the justice department being weaponized by president biden against the former president. a las vegas republican.

caller: i'm calling in mostly to discuss the fact that this shutdown is nothing but detrimental to effectively everyone except the people shutting things down. we've got people honestly on both sides who are trying to basically trying to say, stick to your ground. just because we are republicans doesn't mean we need to blindly follow what's being offered. at the end of the day, the idea that we should go ahead and let the government shut down because it will impact a bunch of people ends up being a little coldhearted. and overall a little rude. host: we will take more of your

thoughts on the potential government shutdown coming up in our next 30 minutes on the "washington journal." when we come back, zach cohen will discuss the latest on this potential government shutdown and later, the committee for a responsible federal budget senior vice president and policy director will discuss the organization's recent report on the u.s. deficit. we will be right back. ♪ >> this week on the c-span networks, the house and senate are in with both chambers continuing work on federal spending bills to avoid the september 30 government shutdown deadline. on wednesday, attorney general merrick garland testifies for the house judiciary committee examining the justice department

under his leadership. then the transportation secretary testifies before the house transportation and infrastructure committee on his department's policies and programs. also wednesday, federal reserve chair jerome powell holds his quarterly press conference. watch this week live on the c-span networkor on c-spanow also head overo span.org for scheduling information or to stream video live and on-demand anytime. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. >> c-span's campaign 2020 for coverage is your front row seat to the presidential election. watch our coverage of the candidates on the campaign trail, with announcements, meet and greets, speeches to make up your own mind. campaign 2024 on the c-span network, c-span now, or anytime online at c-span.org.

c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. >> a healthy democracy doesn't just look like this, it looks like this where americans can see democracy at work and where citizens are truly informed in the public thrives. get informed straight from the source on c-span, unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. from the nation's capital to wherever you are, you get the opinion that matters the most which is your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span, powered by cable. >> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us this morning is that cohen, congressional reporter with bloomberg government to talk about the week in congress. let's pick up where we work just on for the first hour and we were talking about what's being

negotiated behind closed doors between what many call the hard right freedom caucus and the moderate mainstream caucus. what do we know about this negotiation? guest: the house freedom caucus late last night which is more fiscally conservative and hard right once two/government spending but also opposed kevin mccarthy speakers up earlier this year and they reached a deal with the main caucus which is a more moderate business friendly faction of the house conference. they came together on this framework and quickly put out a nearly 200 page plan that wouldslash nondefense spending for 8% by the next 31 days starting at the end of september which essentially would give the good negotiators more time to come up with full year government funding bills. the september 30 deadline is

coming up and they asked for legislation that would pass a stopgap measure or full year budget bills which seems unlikely. host: what has the speaker said about how he would bring this deal to the floor? what happens first? guest: the plan is for them to bring up this bill thursday. the way the house worked as they will come back later tonight for a vote which is the bed check vote. the house rules committee will also me today to mark up what's called the continuing resolution. normally, acr would keep gumbel it -- government funding flats. it's more of a stop gap measure because it decreases funding. over the next couple of days, there would be a procedural vote to set the terms of debate to pass a rule for debate on the house floor which then would tee final passage of this bill and send it over to the senate which

has its own obstacles. host: is the rules committee the first hurdle for this potential deal? tell us why. is it because of the makeup of the rules committee and is that related to speaker mccarthy's position as the leader? guest: any legislation that wants to get through the house the dozen have wide bipartisan support needs to go to the rules committee first. because this stopgap measure is unlikely to attract democratic support given the cuts on spending and security measures that democrats oppose, it will need republicans only to carry this bill so rules committee allows them to set the terms. mccarthy's allies make up the majority on this panel. i believe it's seven republicans and four democrats. the four democrats are likely to oppose but there's two members of the house freedom caucus on the rules committee. they could vote with democrats to make it a tight vote in the house rules committee which

could block it. there are three steps over the next couple of days, the stopgap measure, the rules committee and the rules on the floor and final passage for it to be sent to the senate. host: we read some posts on x this morning from some conservatives. i want to show a few of them to our viewers who may have missed it and get your reaction.

what do you make of just those four and there are couple of others. does speaker mccarthy have the votes now? guest: the answer is no. it makes it a difficult week for him and his leadership to fund -- to find those votes. democrats are likely to oppose this bill given the border measures and the deep cuts to non-defense programs which democrats tend to support as well as the defense programs the public likes sticky flat.

the issue here is that mccarthy only has a four seat majority. it was five sees but republican congressman chris stewart utah resigned friday due to some family challenges. that seat is now vacant and that leaves one less room for margin for error for mccarthy on the floor. whether they find some way to get these folks who can becomeyesses or they change the rules committee to get to a yes but what we saw last night is not the final story. host: even if the speaker were to get this through the house this week, what about the senate? what do they say they want? guest: the senate has said for a long time that the a senate appropriations committee which marked up all 12 of these appropriations bill at a higher level than with the house has done don't have the deeper cuts especially to defense spending. they are closer to the debt ceiling agreement that was reached by speaker mccarthy and the white house earlier this

year that avoided a default of the debt and set statutory caps on spending across a category's. they will look at this bill and they will say the cuts are a problem and the lack of any supplemental aid the white houses as were in dealing with natural disasters in florida and hawaii were aid for ukraine. the ukrainian president will be in washington this week making the case for more security aid as he battles this invasion from russia. both democrats and republicans in the senate say they need to pass that funding sooner rather than later. host: if this were to pass the house and the senate were to take up their own continuing resolution or refuse what the house has done, then there's only eight working days left. what happens? guest: there is very limited time to get this done. a couple of days for the house

to pass their version if it comes across the floor. then the senate takes longer to clear the house because of the filibuster and the senate customs of longer debate time. that's something that could go up until the 11th hour. if the senate kicks it back to the house with some amendments then there is less time and potentially goes past the september 30 deadline and then would we would be in shutdown territory. it's not unusual if a bill gets down to the wire that there's technically a shutdown for a couple of hours. that means temporary furloughs for some employees were stopgap that last couple of days so it gets to the white house for president biden signature. there is very little time for them to reach a deal and there will have to be some tricky procedural hurdles to get over first. host: we want to invite our viewers to join us in this conversation. we will take your comments and

questions about the potential government shutdown and the week ahead in congress. democrats, (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, independents and textus as well at (202) 748-8003. you can join us on facebook.com/ c-span or x. bill from pensacola, florida, independent, you are first, go ahead. i've got to push the button, sorry about that. start over. caller: i am a former that and i've lived there many shutdowns and they never help anybody. we have a party that feels that holding everybody hostage is the way to get things done. they dragged their feet throughout the year to get it to

this point or come up with some novel thing to shut it down. what does that achieve? absolutely nothing. host: zach cohen? guest: in a government shutdown, there are two classes of federal employees -- one is essential and nonessential federal employees. the essential federal employees keep doing the job and certainly there are parts of the government that see no changes to their operations even in the case of a shut down because they are critical to things like national security. then there are members of the federal government that are nonessential that can go on furlough without significant interruptions to government operations and those folks might include this caller who would then go home and wait on furlough and i get paid until the government reopens with really no guarantee they would get that back pay unless congress decides to do so.

there are vast implications of a shut down. the last time we saw one was 2018 in the middle of the trump administration. we might see a similar shutdown over the similar issue a border security which is included in this stopgap measure. once the government shuts down, it's a question of how long it lasts. host: is it a full or partial shutdown? guest: it's technically a full part is a full government shutdown because none of the appropriations have been passed into law yet. there were a handful in 2018 of these bills that had been signed into law. those agencies continued to operate while others were shut down. the 2018 shutdown was the longest in american history but it was not a full shutdown on the american government. host: surely in connecticut, democratic caller. caller: thank you for taking my call. i would like to ask if there is

a place where we can get some clarity on how shutdowns of the government affect regular people like myself. it says they are talking about the government workers and they are talking about other agencies but as a regular citizen, i do not understand how it affects me. i am a retiree and i receive social security as well as a pension. i don't know how these things affect regular citizens like might daughter who has children in school. these things are outdated and we want to know if they threaten each other about shutting down the government. what is the threat to us? host: we will have zach cohen respond. guest: social security checks

will continue to go out in a shut down and schools would stay open because they are run by state and municipalities rather than the federal government. those would continue to operate. the best way for folks to keep track of this stuff is as we get closer to a potential shutdown on october 1 is various government agencies on the .gov website. some of the determinations have not been made yet. i believe the office of management and budget is the hr company for the federal government will make determinations on what exactly would shut down in the event of a funding collapsed september 30. host: according to news reports, the white house and some lawmakers would like an additional $20 billion for ukraine in any sort of continuing resolution. you mentioned the president of ukraine will be coming to washington.

talk about the dynamic there, what will he be doing in washington and is he likely to make the case and get enough support for funding? guest: volodymyr zelenskyy is arguably the best advocate ukraine has for security spending in washington. he is popular among democrats and republicans alike but not so much by members of the house republican conference in a couple of senate republicans who are skeptical of how it's being spent. mitch mcconnell likes to point out that this spending doesn't go straight to ukraine but gets used to replenish stockpiles of weapons the u.s. government has already produced which means jobs at weapons making manufacturers across the country. volodymyr zelenskyy's job will be to thank the united states for all the aid it has given over the last year or so of this invasion by russia of ukraine

and then to ask for more aid especially at this critical junction for the ukrainian military as it launches a counteroffensive against russian forces. host: here is one of our viewers in a text -- guest: this is the process of congress for better or for worse. september 30 will come up and that's the end of the fiscal year and each year, congress has to sign off on 12 appropriations bill to keep these agencies funded. we have seen lapses in the past and normally such shutdowns are avoided with a stopgap measure. the real issue here is that the stopgap measure highlights parts that the democrats will support not even all the republicans

will support. there's been talk about changing the weight government is funded over the years. it could be a two year appropriation cycle so these fights don't happen every year were couple of months. there has been really no movement on those long-term reforms that would be needed. host: as the debate plays out, what is happening with the potential motion to vacate the chair for speaker mccarthy? guest: that's essentially a move to fire mccarthy as speaker. during the balloting over the speakership in january, folks might remember there was a deal reached that a motion to vacate could be triggered by just one member of the house. it would still require a majority of the house to actually change leadership of the house, but forcing a vote which would be politically embarrassing for mccarthy and his team only requires one

member. that is one reason why he has bent over backwards not only to please the far right of his congress but also more moderate members who are up for reelection next year in heavily democratic states. he needs to keep all of them on board and it's just one of them gets to the point of wanting to trigger that vote, you could see a repeat of what we saw in january with a week of balloting over the speakership without business being done in the house. host: what to the speaker tell his conference members about the potential threat behind closed doors last week? there were reports of colorful language that was used. guest: i'm not sure i'm allowed to repeated on air. mccarthy wanted to go into the 2024 election focused on things like the economy and border security but instead, the new cycle tends to be dominated by debates like this, these internal factions that tend to

be worked are -- worked out behind closed doors. he took to a private meeting that quickly lead to my colleagues and others that he was upset with some of his members. he said bring this motion to the floor if you are going to hold over my head but use more colorful language. in illustrates the heightened tensions on display with a lot at stake. host: pennsylvania, democratic caller, good morning. caller: good morning. yes, when the republicans are out of power, they talk a lot about deficits. they don't care about the deficit when they are in power.

the deficit is $1 trillion. why don't they blame trump for the deficit? host: talking about when they are in power -- guest: the house appropriations committee which is the dublin of the senate appropriations committee wrote these full year funding bills, they do cut spending. i think it is indicative that especially house republicans are concerned about the trajectory of the federal debt which certainly is determined not just by how much the government is spending but how much is bringing in. you have a guest coming on who will be more knowledgeable in this issue but generally, republicans want to cut government spending and we see that in the stopgap measure which seems to have the majority of the house republican conferences supported. the tricky part in emergency cases is things like the covid pandemic where the deficit

ballooned under republican leadership. republicans controlled the senate as well as the white house. at this time where the economy is not in a recession and where inflation is cooling, not unusual to see republicans who are in power in the house trying to use that power to cut some spending in the name of reducing the debt and the deficit. host: it was also announced in recent days by the speaker that there would be an impeachment inquiry into president biden. how will that play out? guest: not much has changed right now on that front. in actuality, the three committees that have been pursuing allegations of crime and the biden family, some of which is playing out in the courts against hunter biden but those three committees come of the house oversight committee judiciary and the house ways and means committee have already been investigating a potential

nexus which hasn't been proven between hunter biden's business dealings and any potential corruption by president joe biden. this impeachment inquiry serves two purposes. one is legal which allows house republicans a little more power to issue a subpoena against the white house or other entities in the courts to make the case that those subpoenas should be answered as they seek more information about hunter biden and his business and any potential relationship with them vice president joe biden or former vice president joe biden. the other issue is its political. members of the house conference like marjorie taylor greene said they would not support a government funding bill absent some movement on impeachment. sure enough, house speaker kevin mccarthy came back from the august recess and he announced the impeachment inquiry. congresswoman marjorie taylor greene came into the speaker's office and said i'm ready to support a funding bill.

as the deadline to fund the government gets closer, mccarthy but this might be an opportunity to create more support for a funding bill at least in the short term but certainly, it will be more complicated than initially expected. host: ohio, independent, good morning. caller: good morning. i am a retired federal employee. i was always brought in as essential because i worked in the national security area. i've been through at least a dozen of these periods. i've never seen in all that time i was working in all the other federal employees had vacations, congress always voted to reimburse them for staying at home.

we were working twice as hard because a lot of the people didn't have to come in. those of us that did had to take up the slack for all the people who weren't there. host: zach cohen? guest: there are two classes of federal employees and we heard from two of them so far today and i should thank them for their service in government. there are members when they are furloughed if they have the savings to go on vacation, that's within their rights. there are other families who rely on that pay to come in if they are a single income household, certainly, reimbursing for the time they would have been working and they weren't getting that pay. congress is done that on a fairly wrigley basis. you are right, it creates two classes. with some members, some federal

employees who continue to work while others are on furlough which can create some economic hardship for those not getting that pay. host: also happening this week on capitol hill, merrick garland will testify. where will he be testifying and what will he be asked from these lawmakers? guest: i believe is for the house judiciary committee. it's possible it was in the senate as well. republicans have been bringing attorney general garland to hearings on a wide area of issues. host: it's related to these negotiations on a potential government shutdown. marjorie taylor greene in herx post referring to the weaponization of the justice

department because they don't want to include funding for the justice department. guest: that's right, there is some language in house republican spending bills that would cut funding for things like these investigations into the trump business and as he faces the multiple federal indictments in house republicans, one of the first things they did when they took power this year was created subcommittee on weaponization of the federal government. it's a subcommittee of the house judiciary committee which is led by jim jordan of ohio. host: the attorney general will be before that committee wednesday at 10 a.m. eastern time. that's where you will hear his testimony and you can watch it on c-span3, c-span now, our free mobile app and on our website, c-span.org. here is eddie from tucson, arizona.

what are your thoughts? guest: this is the struggle that i think mccarthy has had the last couple of months. he has two competing parts of the conference he needs to contend with. there are members of the more moderate wing, the folks in the more than a dozen districts that were elected as republicans in house districts that also voted for president joe biden 2020 and they will need to continue that bipartisan outreach. we hear from those folks that they are not ready to move forward with impeachment and they have not seen the evidence of biden doing anything that would be tantamount to a high crime or misdemeanor that would be worthy of impeachment or an inquiry. there are people in their districts who had voted for biden. there are members who were in much more republican districts who are only concerned with winning a primary or the general

election. mccarthy has had to straddle these two issues for a long time. the reason why the house is not voting to start an official impeachment inquiry as mccarthy himself requested during the impeachment of former president donald trump is that there simply aren't the votes there to start one. he has taken the initial step to ramp up the probe of the biden family without putting any of his members on notice or on the record in a way that could hurt them politically. host: there is a lot to follow this week in congress and you can do so by following zach cohen on x. thank you very much for the conversation. guest: sure thing. host: we will take up short

break and when we come back, we will be an open form but still ahead, committee for a responsible federal budget senior vice president and senior policy director mark gold wine discusses the recent report on the u.s. deficit. first, open forum, any political issue or policy on your mind. start dialing in, we will be right back. ♪ >> this fall, what c-span's new series, books that shaped america. join us as we embark on a captivating journey and partnership of the library of congress which first created a books that shaped america list to highlight key works of literature from american history. the 10 books have provoked thoughts, won awards, led to significant societal changes and

are still talked about today. peer from featured renowned expert to a shed light on the profound impact of these works in virtual journeys to locations around the country key to these celebrated authors. among our featured books, common sense, huckleberry finn, their eyes were watching god, and free to choose. watch era 10 part series, books that shaped america, starting monday, september 18 at 9 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span now, or online at c-span.org. >> join us tonight for the premiere of c-span's new series, books that shaped america. in partnership of the library of congress, we will export 10 books from american literature that provoked thought, won

awards, led to significant societal change and are still talked about today. this week, we will feature common sense come a 47 page pamphlet, written by thomas payne in early 1776 on the heightened tensions between the american colonies and great britain. a university maryland professor talked about how the pamphlet highlighted the split from great britain. watch tonight at 9 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span now or online at c-span.org. also be sure to scan the qr code to listen to our companion podcast to learn more about the authors who are featured. >> this year, but db marks 25 years of shining the spotlight

on leading nonfiction authors and their books with talks from more than 22,000 authors, nearly 900 festivals vetted -- visited and 16,000 events. book tv has provided viewers with 92,000 hours of programming on the latest liver -- literary discussion on history, politics and biographies. you can watch book tv every sunday on c-span2 or online at book tv.org. book tv, 25 years of television for serious readers. >> since 19 79, in partnership with the cable industry, c-span has provided complete coverage of the halls of congress from the house and senate floors to congressional hearings, party briefings and committee meetings. c-span gives you a front row seat to how issues are debated and decided with no commentary,

no interruptions and completely unfiltered. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are back in open forum this morning. any public policy or political issue that's on your mind but first, let's show you the former president's attempt interview with msnbc for their meet the press program yesterday to talk about the impeachment in area and potential government shutdown and other topics. [video clip] >> i want to stay on this on what you mean by retribution. are you looking to appoint an attorney general who will prosecute the people you want to prosecute? >> i want an attorney general who will be tough on crime and fair, it's very simple. >> speaker mccarthy announced he was launching an impeachment inquiry this week into president biden. do you see this as part of the

retribution? >> not at all, you look at the terrible things that have been happening with hunter biden. jamie comber, jim jordan are fantastic people. they were talking about a lot of different facets of what's going on. he was the one that said i guess there are 12 things and it looks like it's stone cold guilty. he said this is the only charge that doesn't implicate joe biden. >> my question for you -- did you talk to speaker mccarthy about this? >> now, i don't do that. he wouldn't do that based on me. >> did you talk to your republican allies on capitol hill? >> i don't have to talk about it. they are more proactive than i am. they think it's terrible. >> do you think republican hardliners should abandon their

threat to shut down the government? >> if they don't get a fair deal, we need to save our country with three $3 trillion in debt. >> would you shut down the government to support that? >> if they can't make an appropriate deal, absolutely. host: the former president yesterday and the new host, here is a headline from the wrap, criticized for the live trump interview enter meet the press debut, horrible way to start her tenure is one quote from that. in open form, robin from new york city, democratic caller. caller: good morning and thank you for what you do. you do a nice job at balancing both sides so i thank you for that. host: you bet, what's on your mind this morning? caller: i was in new york city when 9/11 happened. and i am still 20 years later affected by it. to think that we would not fund

ukraine who has a 911 type attack daily for years now, for a year now, is unconscionable. if we don't support ukraine, then we are not supporting democracy. i don't want to live in a world where murder has authoritarians like putin and xi continue to push the limits of their power. if we don't take a stand, i think one of the reasons why a guy like donald t. trump backs away from these issues is he talks a good game but he is actually afraid of these big world authoritarians because he doesn't know how to handle guys

like that and countries like that. his way of pretending to handle potent - putin is to try to befriend him. it's like befriending the bully because you are afraid of him. he is extremely naïve. host: i will leave it there. for those who may have missed it, the president of ukraine will be visiting the u.s. this week. here is the new york times --

let's hear from lucy in new york on a republican, good morning. caller: good morning. my issue is we cannot even talk about cutting the deficit when we have mass, illegal immigration. i work at a hospital in the city and two of the migrants this weekend got into accidents, went to the hospital, racked up tens of thousands dollars and i looked to see how they were paying for it and it was medicaid. they are all getting medicaid. to think that we are talking about cutting the deficit when we have this flow of illegal immigrants. to see the new york times front pages incredible. for them to say that they pay taxes, they don't make enough to pay taxes but they use a tremendous amount of benefits.

until we tackle this, we are all going over a cliff. democrat or republican, it doesn't matter. host: james from akron, ohio, democratic caller. caller: i would like to know -- i have three issues here -- i would like to know how many republicans congresspeople voted no on a budget increase for the four years that trump was in office adding 8-10,000,000,000,000 dollars of debt. that's one thing. on the border crisis, it could be solved if we just have a group get together to figure out what we will do on the border. we haven't had a border solution in years. that's why we have a border crisis, it's crazy. one of the thing -- all of the people are willing to pay more in taxes to help the country

well the wealthy pay less or nothing. i think people need to look at all of those issues. host: in other news this morning , here is the denver post headline about congresswoman lauren boebert escorted out of the betelgeuse musical in denver after causing a disturbance. we will go to josephine in south carolina, an independent as we are in open forum. caller: hello. my issue is our foreign policy.

i have followed the israeli -palestinian conflict since the time of jimmy carter. every single peace agreement that has been offered to both sides has always had one major requirement that israel move -- remove its troops from the west bank and allow the palestinians to have their own self-determination freedom and all the equality that americans stand for. i've followed this for over four decades in israel never agrees to leave the west bank. in fact, it continues to steal the palestinian land and give eviction notices to palestinian villages and demolish their homes and leave people on the

streets, whole families and doesn't allow them to have building permits while he continues to build illegal jewish only settlements with discriminating between the two races and giving privileges to one people and denying those to others. major human rights organizations like amnesty international and human rights watch and even israel's own have all investigated and have all written reports and reached the same conclusion, that israel's laws and policies and practices are acting like an apartheid government. it gives the rights to one people to dominate and control the lives of another people. host: all right, josephine's thoughts in south carolina. we are in open forms of public policy issues. she was talk about foreign policy but you can talk about

domestic or camping 2024, any of that is on the table this morning during open forum. there is also this from npr -- bonnie and lancaster, pennsylvania, a republican. caller: good morning and thank you for making my -- for taking my call. wouldn't it be a wonderful country if we did not have democratic and republican parties? if we americans tried to bring that cycle back and start over. we are becoming so inundated. i have traveled the world. i lived in new york city for 25 years. what we are trying to do, who is trying to do this with immigration?

both sides of our political spectrum are not fair. the citizens are the ones who will get hurt. if we don't straighten out. my theory is, why is everybody so anti-trump? why not just let the guy run and if the citizens of the country, republican or democrat want to vote for him, why all this judicial problems? why are the democrats and republicans and some republicans with all the power and the money, why are they against this man? why can't we have a peaceful transition. i feel if we don't straighten out, we will become venezuela without a doubt. we are almost there. thank you so much for taking my

call. host: altoona, pennsylvania, democratic caller. caller: good morning, i watched that meet the press interview with president trump. that is why i am calling. his past record, the same old thing, everybody lies, it's all fake in the election, it's the same old thing. nothing is wrong with what he does. we've got to get new people into run this country. i agree, it has to be about issues and not so much about what side you're on, republican or democrat. i will not keep the democrat because i believe president

biden has done a lot of good things but there are some things we've got to get on with the border crisis and things like that. let's get new people in there. why is kennedy not able to speak and get in this race? we need fair people. we need people who are not on the democratic or republican totally and think of the issues and the reasons why america is in this fix that we've got to get out of. that haley who is republican, i believe she had some common sense issues on both sides. can she be the vice president if kennedy would run, would that be somebody we see changing this system we are going so wrong on? it's very upsetting. if president trump doesn't get

paid for his disruptions he caused through his years of making this country so anti-everything and he pretends like he made it great. i'm sorry, in the past three years, i see everything stemmed from the way things were run in his term. thanks for letting me say this. host: you are welcome, talking about camping 2024 and you can follow the c-span coverage if you go to our website, c-span.org. she mentioned nikki haley former ambassador to the u.n. in the trump administration. you can read more from there. this is another washington post

story featured on the front page. patrick, an independent, let's hear from you. caller: good morning, c-span. i will take a pass on donald trump. i've basically had enough on him and i've talked to republicans in my family and they will do

likewise. i had a chance to see a speaker in south carolina. this individual just spelt it out. the division in our country today is between the working class and big corporations and their capital cronyism that goes on, the wall street back room deals that go down. rfk junior will take them down if he puts that it -- if we put him in. trump in 20, gave the biggest tax cut to the corporations, 85% of the tax cut we are paying which was thrown on the debt balance sheet went to the corporations and 15% went to the working class. the part that went to the working class has been stripped down in 2025.

i like rfk junior. he's got this tagline that i like -- honest as sunshine. thank you for letting me speak and everyone have a great day. host: if you missed rfk junior, he was on the "washington journal" last week that you can find it on our website, c-span.org. we've been giving you an update on where negotiations stand on funding the federal government and avoiding a government shutdown and eight working days. the washington times headline --

several conservatives tweeting this morning that they are not in support of this continuing resolution. kevin mccarthy needs 218 votes. he cannot lose more than four and democrats appear will not help with getting this continuing resolution approved in the house. it would have to then be approved by the senate where they would like to see other funding added to any continuing resolution, specifically funding for ukraine and disaster relief. william from maryland, let's hear from you. caller: i want you to shut the government down and do not vote for the continuing resolution. most people have enough money to eat so there is not a problem,

they will be fine. host: robert from virginia, independent. open forum. caller: as we speak, earlier this morning, mike pompeo was on fox news spreading more lies. fox news admitted that they lied about the election to all the people in this country. i called the sec and i asked why they still have a lesson to broadcast and they said because no one has filed a late. you tell me that -- no one has filed a complaint. they are helping the conservatives and they won't file a complaint? i don't get it. it's all crooked. these people know that trump lost the election but they still say he doesn't believe it but it's such a big mess and i hope this country gets itself

straight before other countries like russia and china take it over. have a good day and thank you. host: brenda, indiana, pennsylvania caller: caller:, independent caller. good morning. i just have three will -- real quick points to make. on ukraine, how would we have fared in afghanistan and iraq of other countries around the world felt the same way about us that we feel about ukraine? when 99% of americans were sitting home during the afghan and iraq wars, ukraine sent soldiers to fight with us in afghanistan and iraq. ukraine sent soldiers to help us and now we don't want to help them? the second point -- christian welker did not add that donald trump added $8 trillion to our national debt. it took over 200 years to a cannula dish to accumulate $24

trillion of debt and it took the great businessman donald trump to add an additional $8 trillion in only four years. third, the federal government sets a budget a year in advance. i challenge every american family to sit down in january and write out a budget for the upcoming year and then stay on that budget. that way you can account for needing tires or one of the breadwinners maybe break a leg and have less income, you can account for your kids suddenly needing braces on their teeth. we are trying to set a budget a year in advance which is almost impossible to do. thank you. host: we are in open form this morning and we will keep taking your calls. let me let you knoer new series on c-span. beginning tonight at 9

watch new series in partp with the library of congressled books that shaped america, aist to from american history.iterature it features experts willss the impact of these works and the societal changes. stil talked about today some of the books we are featuring include sense by thomas pnd huckleberry finn by mark twain. watch our 10 part book series, books that shaped america, starting tonight at 9 p.m. eastern time on c-span, c-span now, our free mobile video app or online at c-span.org. every monday at 9 p.m. eastern time and we hope you join us for that conversation. jamie in mississippi, a republican. caller: i would like to give some information to everyone who can hear this. especially the democrats.

if you want to believe that all of these illegals crossing the border, you want to put them on medicaid, you will see the section for them to fill out the information. also, i would like to point out to all the democrats that think that everything fox news says is a lie while you're getting all your information from all liberal tv stations, 90% of the news is owned by liberals. you think they are telling you the truth for some reason and that fox news everything they say is a lie. you people are being brainwashed. republicans are not stupid. i don't know, you all are brainwashed.

host: oklahoma, independent. caller: if you have the government shut down, then the retired people don't get their retirement check. thank a republican for that. host: we heard earlier that social security checks would go out. caller: i am a federal government employee. my check won't come. host: i see, we will keep taking your calls on public policy debates and political issues as well. now we will get an update on campaign 2024. join us is a national politics reporter with the associated press. it's begin with the state of play for campaign 2024 on the republican side. guest: we have seen candidates

across the board in this past month and especially the past week, we saw candidates together in iowa for a big get together where a lot of them showcased what they are putting forth of the most conservative tendencies on policies, including abortion and other issues at play in the campaign. so far what we are seeing is a focus on the continued early voting states in iowa, new hampshire and south carolina where i live. these are the first votes that, in 2024 and where we are seeing most of the candidates putting their energy, taking what they have in their campaign coffers and spreading them out. add size, forging relationships they hope will benefit them when it comes to the next year. there are events happening in other locations but there are a

lot of folks on iowa, new hampshire and in south carolina where the campaigns are active. host: what are the latest polls showing? week assume the former president continues to be in the lead. but has anybody seen upward project ray -- trajectory? guest: there has been a little shift. let's keep in mind, there is a difference between national polling and early state polls, specifically why mentioned with iowa, new hampshire. we do vote state-by-state for the presidential nominating process, but there is a shifting sand to who comes in second to former president trump. for a long time, it was florida governor ron desantis. but different candidates are

moving. one is nikki haley, who has been campaigning hard and has seen a surge in momentum. kim scott is also showing a bit of upward momentum in some places as his vivek ramaswamy. it depends on what surveys you are looking at. while the former president does occupy the top slot, how much of his lead is dependent upon where you are looking and over whom in that second place spot? host: you have a piece, tim scott wants new rules for student placement in the gop debate and seeks a breakout moment. guest: that's right. we saw the campaign write a letter to a campaign woman and when it comes to who is center stage in that debate coming up at the end of the month, they

argued that placement should be based primarily off of early state polling and perhaps in particular polling out of iowa, which holds they lead on the caucus and where the campaign has been performing better in recent weeks. arguably, using those metrics to determine who is at the center of this stage and part of just about every conversation on it, the campaign could be in a better position if those numbers are used from iowa. the current gop front runner has indicated he might not participate in any of the primary debates. so it is likely he will be there even though he is the leader so far. host: how are candidates doing on fundraising? guest: they are coming up on the end of another quarter or so we will see shortly. but it depends.

the nikki haley campaign based on her performance in the debate last month said she had one of her best single fundraising periods based on her performance there. but some other campaigns say they are having bumps in momentum. the dissent's campaign has been saying he has been doing well. tim scott came into the race with some of the most money of any candidate because he was able to bring in a lot from his senate coffers where he has not had a lot of opposition and had a lot of money left over. he also says his fundraising is doing well. they are continuing to bring in money. we will see for sure how much shortly. we are seeing all that transfer in terms of more ads, candidates staying on the air particularly in the early voting stage, candidates introducing themselves and making the argument.

host: any contenders dropping out? guest: i get calls all the time from people supporting other candidates saying i wonder how long it is until we don't see this candidate anymore. after the first debate became camp does complete, we saw the mayor suspending his campaign. it is unknown, some other campaigns, to see who might not make the debate stage. there is debate about doug burgum or asa hutchinson and if they will be on the stage. but we don't know if that will translate. host: what else are you watching for the coming days and weeks? guest: the issues of the day and how candidates are approaching

them. we have seen house republicans mounting impeachment against president biden. it is something we have heard on the campaign trail even before they gop took this recent move. but there is criticism into the president's son. those are cases of rhetoric we hear from a lot of republican campaigns. now that there are actions being taken against the president and his son, some of the campaigns are continuing to make arguments about why they should oust biden. the economy and continued concerns about a potential government shutdown are things we are hearing from -- as it

pertains to gop arguments. those are things campaign reporters like me are interested to hear. host: on the democratic side, what are you watching for for the nomination process president biden is going for another term, but what are the polls showing and what are people talking about on that side? guest: there are frustrations from americans and democratic voters about what they see as their choice for next year. this is the oldest president to occupy the oval office, so the ap and other organizations have done polling about what that means to voters and how they approach that. some say that does not bother them and they trust his experience. but others bring it up and that is something we hear from just about every republican campaign,

not specific to age, but they have questions about the president's abilities to do his job. south carolina scheduled to hold the first of the nominating process and other candidates like robert f kennedy junior and marianne williamson are talking to voters. they are making sure the voters know that they do have a choice headed into the election. but there are a lot of states, south carolina among them, that supported biden in 2020 when he got the nomination then. in other candidates are able to make their argument in a persuasive way. host: you can go to x and handle her, or at ap news.com.

we will go back to open for them. tina in north carolina, a democrat. what is undermined? that's on your mind? caller: thank you for taking my call. what i'm calling for is a lot of people are calling from the republican side and our president is a good and honest man. it does not go by age. he is a mature man and he does not go for the junk. that is what republicans don't like. he is trying to get them altogether so it can be like it was. we can't stay separated like this. it is great they have a good country to run that. host: roger in waterloo, iowa. democrat.

caller: maybe i missed it, but when did hunter biden get busted for possession of a controlled substance and charged and prosecuted? host: a lot of reporting out there, so pick your venue or publication. you can find that. roger in waterloo, iowa. we are in open forum, talking right campaign 2024. a few headlines in the paper about that. we showed you the one from the washington post. nikki haley betting big on message to win in 2024. the headline over the south carolina governor. voters wonder whether she has a pass for the nomination. this from the wall street journal about president biden.

challenges for the president mount a year before his reelection bid. funding, impeachment, his son's indictment. gas prices and inflation, all part of the challenges for the president as he seeks a second term. there are economic turned headlines -- there are economic headlines. student loans restart to pinch spending. starting october 1, tens of millions of student loan borrowers will need to make payments averaging between 200 and $300 each month. they will mark the first time that borrowers have had to make good on their loans since the education department instituted a pause in 20. they spent the money on television, travel, new homes and thousands of other products. that is one reason the economy has remained resilient in recent years despite a surge in interest rates. then usa today, the front page,

the court decision on dhaka leaves dreamers -- daca leaves dreamers in doubt. that deferred action for childhood arrival sends a ripple of uncertainty and angst for the more than 600,000 recipients who are studying or working in the united states. robert in the bronx, republican. caller: good morning. my first issue is about social security and people being told they have to repay. i'm 74 and they told me i have to start repaying social security, i would be in big trouble. i am registered as a republican but i have never acted like a soul republican. i vote based on the person, my intelligence.

that is what the party tells me to vote on. the last thing is my own sports news, is television. i looked through news reports when i can. i don't have any smitten news. host: john in illinois, independent. caller: all of my kids by american cars and the rest of the family as well. as far as the auto strike, i think both sides are wrong. the strikers are saying that the president or the ceo of ford is making $40 million and that is ridiculous. once upon a time in this country, the head guy made 15 times with the average worker made.

this is now about three or 400 times as much. the autoworkers are also wrong, though. united autoworkers get paid range -- wage benefit practice about $50 an hour. the foreign auto companies that have plants in the u.s. are about $40 an hour. it is hard for the u.s. companies to compete and impossible for them to compete if they want to wages that they have coming up. host: in the washington times, a union leader rejects offer for 24 percent raises, arguing they don't compare to ceo pay. they report automakers average 18 to $24 an hour. last year, the ceo and chair made $29 million.

another ceo made $25 million. president biden has frequently touted his prounion stands and lends this to the uaw. he suggested automakers need to share the wealth more. caller: there is profit sharing, where they keep what they want but it is not sustainable. you are seeing the hourly wage does not include the package. [inaudible] -- host: hello, bobby in south carolina. caller: i think former president trump should stand up and be a man. i have heard of any report where anybody is being prosecuted or accused of anything except

donald trump. not the entire country, just trump. he has had such a hard time, it is almost pitiful. there after me, they are after me, there after you all. nobody's name is on these documents but donald j. trump. so he needs to be a man. host: bobby in south carolina. we will take a break. when we come back, committee for federal budget senior vice president marc goldwein to discuss the u.s. deficit. ♪ >> c-span studentcam documentary competition is back and we are celebrating 20 years.

looking forward while considering the past. >> leaders of today and tomorrow. it is imperative that we keep the groundwork for actual life. we can work together to prevent fentanyl from becoming the next pandemic. >> inflation matters. >> we are asking middle and high school students to create a video addressing one of two questions. what is the most important change you want to see in the next 20 years in america, or over the past 20 years, what has been the most important change in america? they have to show supporting and opposing perspectives. to the grand prize of $5,000 and every teacher who has students participate in the competition has the opportunity to share a

portion. the deadline for students to make documentaries is friday, january 19, 2024. for more information, contact us oebsiur, studentcam.org. ♪ >> c-span now is a free mobile app featuring your unfiltered view of what is happening in washington, live and on-demand. keep up with the biggest events with live streams of four dust floors proceedings and campaigns and more from the world of politics. find scheduling information for the network and -- downloaded it for free today.

>> washington journal continues. host: we are back with marc goldwein, senior vice president and policy director at the committee for a responsible federal budget, here to talk about the deficit and federal spending. let's begin with defining deficit versus deck. -- debt. tell us the difference. guest: thanks for having me. the deficit is how much we borrow each year, and the debt is the sum of all of our past deficits. if you think of a credit card, the deficit is how much you have added to a credit card bill in 2023. the debt is how much you owe total. host: where are we at right now? guest: there are different ways to measure. but i like to look at how the

public is a share of the economy. we are close to 100%. it is as large as a full year's worth of output. host: why are we in this position? guest: there is no one thing, but the kobe crisis in the great recession before that included a lot of one time borrowing that got us far from our historical average of 50% to 100%. underlying that, we keep passing new tax cuts and new spending increases that widen our structural deficits and the agent of the population and rising health care costs put pressure on some of our oldest programs, social security and medicare to continue growing in cost. host: are we paying our credit card? guest: we are paying it with

credit cards. we are borrowing a lot and we will roll over debt from previous years. host: according to the new report, the deficit is rising faster than projected. why? guest: last year's deficit was $1 trillion, this year $2 trillion. effectively, the deficit has doubled. part of the reason is it turns out 2022 was a high water point. we had a good year in terms of tax question -- tax collection from capital gain. now, things are normal. adding to the cost of social security and medicare went up sharply because of inflation and our interest costs are as high as they've ever been since the 90's, with the average interest rate on new debt, even 5.5% in

some cases. host: who is to blame? guest: host: we all are. the voters need to take was possibility because we love low taxes, government services and benefits. politicians keep making promises they can't afford. they tell us don't worry about the borrowing because it will pay for itself or the spending program is so important. many of the economists are to blame. when interest rates were low, they said borrowing is cheap, let's do it. it did not occur to them interest rates will rise and we are going to roll over the cheap debt into expensive debt. host: this chart from your report shows the divergence between spending and revenue over the years. what can you tell us? what has been happening?

guest: two things. we keep cutting taxes so revenue has a built in growth and as incomes grow up, revenue should be growing. that is not happen if we keep cutting taxes. the other is increased spending. new government programs, one-time relief -- so that made sense and some of it did not. for example, covid. and we have allowed our largest programs including social security, medicare and medicaid to grow completely unfettered. we have known these are on a nonsustainable track. if you are on social security now, it will not be able to pay that in 10 years because it will be insolvent. yet we have done nothing to raise more revenue to finance it.

host: why not? guest: because it is hard. it is fun to tell people i gave you a tax cut and protected your sources there social security benefits. it is hard to say in the interest of the greater good, we will have to raise the retirement age by one month every two years. you will have to pay more taxes on your income. we can do it especially if republicans and democrats got together. but it is politically tough because nobody wants to pay more taxes or lower benefits host:. [indiscernible] don't -- host: one former president trump was in control, there were tax cuts. there was a piece about how much of those tax cuts will stay in place because president biden has said no one made -- making

lesson $40,000 should see a tax increase. their reporting said much of trump's tax cut package stays in place. guest: it is possible. republicans cut taxes by about $2 trillion over 10 years in the trump administration and join hands with democrats to increase spending and cut taxes by a combined almost $3 trillion more. many of those taxes expire at the end of 2025. though there has been talk of paying for suspensions, we don't know how they are going to do it. it is a big risk that the parties have joined together not with hard choices but by extending and expanding the tax cuts. host: we are eight working days away from a possible shutdown. conservative republicans are

saying we need to address spending now. they want to spend 150 billion dollars less than what the president and speaker mccarthy agreed to in may. guest: that may agreement, the fiscal responsibly act is a good start. democrats and republicans came together on a plan to freeze spending levels for -- per year and have it grow slowly next year. it would not solve our debt would save one to $2 trillion over a decade. we ought to go forward with this and then work on how to build on it. now, the house wants to spend below the deal. the senate wants to spend above the deal. they are taking all of this and declaring it an emergency. it was ordinary spending. but nobody wants to abide by it. let's pass this spending act and

then go back for more. we will have to cut spending a lot to get the debt under control. host: let me ask our viewers to join us. democrats (202) 748-8000. republicans (202) 748-8001. independent (202) 748-8002. and text us at (202) 748-8003. include your name, city and state. if we were to continue the trend we have been seeing over the next decade, where would that put us at? guest: am ug;u -- an ugly place. -- if we continue on our current trajectory, within 10 years we

are going to be at 115 130% within 30 years. it will be several between 180 and 300% of gdp. there is no historical example and there are not any international cases. the closest is japan. that is a recipe for slow and stagnant growth, rising interest costs, and talk to this. host: what would it take and how long to get out of the crisis? guest: we should start now. if we put $6 trillion in the debt reduction over the next decade, it would pull it to the lower sides of the economy. that would be important. it would mean we have cut tax rates or raise revenue. we have to restrict the growth of the appropriation.

we have to get serious about health care costs under control and social security. if we wait till the right moment, it will cause because that could put us in a recession and are not going to feel good for the folks relying on various programs. host: davey in arkansas, democrat. guests: -- caller: this morning we gave around $6 billion and the money had gained through oil sales. the accounts were on the trump administration. does this guest know anything

about it? host: i don't think so. that is pretty specific. but to his point about spending money, and to foreign countries, right now, the continuing resolution. should it include an additional $20 billion for ukraine? on top of the billions the government has been given to the country so far in the fight against russia. guest: i think what they're asking about, we owe iran for money -- money from when we were not in conflict. so the request was to release those funds. foreign aid is about 1% of the budget and we should have debate over whether it is worth it. we should scrutinize every dollar and spend it efficiently. but we are not going to fix it by cutting foreign aid, getting billion a supported taxes.

changes to the tax code, reforms to health care. we can't get it from these tiny pots of money alone. >> have the committee center for the budget learned -- and what does your group recommend? >> you can go to social security reformer.org. it allows anyone to design their own program. highschooler's of houston and members of congress have used it for legislation. there are only a few levels, your retirement age, your tax rate, much income is subject to that, the structure of the benefits of that, and the cost-of-living adjustment. you can tinker with all of them. you can personalize it. we do need more revenue into the program, but we also need to adjust the benefit formula and age and we can do all of this in

a way that encourages economic growth. we put out a study last week that said if you do thoughtful security reform, you can boost income by $10,000 per person 30 years from now. so there is a tremendous upside. host: what about health care? you mentioned that. what do you propose to do? guest: the united states spends about 50 percent on health care, twice the average. there is waste, some is overpayment, some is -- but will -- right now the medicaid program pays more if you see a doctor in a hospital which is the same doctor in a doctor setting.

we can equalize that. there is an alternative to medicare called medicare advantage. it is called -- it costs the federal government more money because of the way the they recorded their costs. just getting rid of some of the fraud and misreporting could save hundreds of billions of dollars over a decade. host: john. independent. >> thank you. i don't have an issue with the government shutdown over this spending. the ahead have one -- they have two jobs that would help me. securing the border and true church them without -- with our

strong military. our taxes in con so -- i will otieno how your guest response to that. host: ok. guests: the insomnia into -- most of with the special security program does an initial not resolve. wherever when you have a permanent shutdown. it might be for a week or a month and then will go back and we have federal employees for not working over that time.

we will have backlogs and waste with no actual upside unless it leads to serious policy change. host: a disabled. -- and you say it won't. guest: it could. the only thing that that could come out of the shut down is it leads to an unrelated policy change, and leverage point to lead to an improvement in policy. it does not make the government more efficient, but less. host: we talked with her audience earlier about discretionary spending versus mandatory. those two letters and what this debate is on capitol hill about setting the government down from the toppling figure. does that impact mandatory spending, social security and medicare checkout -- medicare? guest: people will still get their social security and

medicare. but people newly applying mega trouble. we do see a discretionary budget from the initiation of these programs. host: eric in duluth, minnesota. democrat. caller: i would like to give a statement as to whether it is the overspending or the cutting of taxes, which is to blame? since the era of the in rate -- the pregnant magician, when the first tax cuts occurred, the number of billionaires in the u.s. has increased. number 13 at the start of the reagan administration and their and our thousand. they did quite well during the period the national debt has accrued. guest: asking me if tax cuts or

spending is to blame is like which side of the scissors into the cutting. they both are. need to stop cutting taxes over and over and focus on egregious tax breaks that as you say benefit billionaires. we also keep spending more and we have done almost nothing to get under control our two largest spending programs, social security and medicare. host: in georgetown, south carolina, independent. caller: i wanted to talk about the national debt and the situation of spending cuts. i think it is really messed up to talk about cutting medicare spending and social security spending. because the united states spends over $700 billion a year just in military spending. even with the nuclear stuff and

everything, it ends up being about $1 trillion a year in federal spending just in military defense. we could be cutting that spending by a lot in order to help fund these programs that help working-class people. host: has your group looked into pentagon spending? guest: for sure. thank you. there is incredible waste in the defense department and lots of room to cut and bring that under control. i want to point out that when it comes to medicare, there is so much we can do to save people money that is not actually cutting benefits. it is improving the value of the program. that is what we did and the inflation reduction act will be put in place negotiations for drug prices and caps so they can't raise it. the ideas that president obama talked about before trump. when it comes to medicare, there

is so much room to lower costs and ways to improve benefits. social security is 10 years from insolvency. if you don't touch it, the law calls for about a $70,000 cut from retiring over 10 years. we have to get it under control for its own case. you have to do that with new revenue. and then we need to look at defense spending. social security, medicare and defense is looking at all three and knotting the budget seriously. guests: two they have to do any sort of accounting for congress? guest: congress does this in two parts. they authorize the money and then they appropriate it to the appropriations process.

with this fund successfully it no -- that has not happened yet. we should be cutting west -- weapon systems because the commercial district. not because they're the best ways you tied to bureaucracy ill with domain sense. there's sergeant into natural only get. yes: what habits in the body -- an audience just for guests: understands the mission of -- but it should be brought so that

a proper audit can be done. host: hello. i am wondering if use aware of this magic number of $37,000, and i want boesch one, the father-in-law died in a nursing home and the family received a bill for $37,000. the man only owned $5,000 worth of property. the other is my sister has asbestos and a tumor in her lung. her first award came in this month and medicare sent -- took out 900 of the 1100 that she was awarded by the bankruptcy court that handles these cases. they said they will continue

taking one third of whatever she gets until she has repaid $37,000. it seems to be a magic number and nobody knows where it comes from. it is never heard of it. guest: it is not something i've heard of either party to look into it. the first might be medicaid, medicare. it doesn't like a lot of money but i'm not sure what the magic of 37 thousand dollars is. host: when was the last time the u.s. was not in a deficit? guest: in 2001 we had a balanced budget. we started the hard work of bipartisan -- of balancing the budget through some reductions but especially in a 90 -- the commission of their efforts and accommodate bonus abounds -- we

have cut taxes and the wars in iraq and afghanistan, the global financial crisis and then we increased spending and cut taxes. and then we had a coma recession -- covid recession and know we are adding to the deficit. the balance seems so far out of reach even though it was only 20 years ago. host: what would it take to get back to a surplus? guest: cutting spending by about a quarter and increasing revenue by about a third. this is not realistic in the broader sense. it goes from unrealistic to impossible if you take things like social security and veterans often table. or state we are only going to raise taxes on people making $40,000. we are not going to get to balanced any time soon and that is ok. we don't need a balanced budget.

what we need is a budget where deficits are small enough that the economy can grow faster than the debt. so the debt to gdp at about 100 right now is going down. there is no magic number. the direction is what matters. you cannot have a debt that is growing faster than the gdp indefinitely. the more we produce it, the better it is for economic growth. but step one should be let's hold 100% of gdp. host: can it go higher? guest: i would prefer it not. don't know the breaking points. we know the higher the -- the debt is, the more interest, -- let's follow what we need to for emergencies at recession. we put out a study that it is different from a trajectory and

it will flow. the eye kinky yeah. so that might be hard financially craters. -- that would be devastating. think of all of the financial crises with note u.s. government to bail out companies and citizens in need. there is no number when that happens and i hope it never does. but at the risk it becomes likely as your death client. guests: -- ceo who is granted money in excess of the president's salary should not have any more than the president's salary deductible

from corporate taxes. that is all i had to say. guest: we do have a policy like that in the tax code that limits the deductibility of executive compensation. i believe it is over $5 million for the ceo and $2 million for other officers. you could lower it to form 2000 but we have the structure of that already in the tax code. host: jennifer in ohio, independent. question or comment about the deficit. caller: i would like to say they cut off the tax returns. i would also like to say the refugees bring in the refugee act, awarded all of the retirees they came over here, social security, and all they did was

call their browser -- brothers, sisters, mothers and brothers. now they get social security. what should not be paying for the world's retirement. host: any thoughts? guest: the effects of immigration on the budget are interesting. at the federal level, most of them are a net positive for the budget. the pay of them in social communities, but not all of them can do this. and then we have made people effectively playing in the arcade without this. i do think we have to have more complicated reform and fiscal effects and it is a good way to share more evenly. host: in indiana, a republican. caller: good morning.

i've got three things. the government does not fund social security and medicaid. we pay for that out of our paper checks -- paychecks. how much is the government still owe social security and medicaid? three, i know so many people there passing those candidate out to people who shouldn't be on it. guests: social security is text out of the and him wreck -- income. the payroll tax that pays for social security is only covering about .75 percent of the cost. and when it runs out, it creates trouble. i made sure there is a 23% opossum board childhood.

not to help the rest of the federal government, but the wood -- it affects the poor 92-year-old widow the same as it affects this is two-year-old millionaire. host: a meal in colorado's has one of a idea. guest: we don't labor force sprays in this country. issuing on here and now you would hear employers saying they're having trouble finding workers. and is you. and i'm from including willing parents, workers and their related she's. there is also a huge part --

personal advantage. people that work a little longer have more money saved up. they are happier, healthier. they live longer and have stronger social network. they have lower divorce rates because they are not at home annoying there spouse. they drink less and watch less tv. people that are able to stand the workforce longer are better off financially, physically and mentally. we need a system that allows the flexibility that people who are retired at the edge they need to. host: scott from california, democrat. caller: great discussions, i'm amazed i'm about to agree with a republican from texas earlier who was talking about our -- to refer to social security as

entitlement is condescending. the fact that every single paycheck i have earned my entire life, i am now 55, has had social security deductions taken from it. this is where we differ. i believe that to expect unlimited potential growth in our economy is kind of a mistake. it is not going to work. it might touch on what you talked about with wondering to extend the years people does before their -- they are able to retire. we have an aging population. the baby boomers were a lot of of that generation and they took

up the bulk of the workforce for best first. gen-x is smaller and millennials even smaller. there are not enough human beings in the population faced with income the baby boomers generated. host: i think we understand. mark. guest: i'm not sure used the word entitlement but i don't think it is inappropriate. it means you are entitled to the benefit. he paid into it, he is entitled to it. the amount that we are paying in right now, it only covers about three quarters of the cost. do we do anything and soon for social security so that people can continue to have benefits jericho -- benefits jericho -- benefits?

young retiree today will be 72 whether benefits get slashed. today's 57-year-old will be just retiring with was $75,000 to benefits. to subsidize ukraine or defense, we need to save it for its own sake so contributions cover its own costs. i am ability -- confident in my ability to keep growing. i do -- we're not quite to have it going forward. but i would like to have 2% growth, 1% growth or 0% growth. and that is looking at everything we do, whether on the labor side or with better investment, better research, can

make a big difference. host: caroline west virginia, independent. caller: good morning. i was wondering if we could do a spending freeze, also not really cut but freeze until they can task an audit. any department that can't pass an audit should not get any increases i think we need to do it line by line to find out where we can cut. that includes from the top down. reform the tax bill. everybody wants the rich to pay their fair share. but they never do anything about reforming any of the tax laws that put them there. i think we can do a better job if we would do it line by line and we will be able to find more

aware we could cut across the board. guest: i used to work on a partisan physical commission. tom coburn was the first to freeze pentagon spending before they tested the audit. i think it was a good idea when he's just in it and still when you suggested it. or mine in the weight. with tougher -- it is tougher in some areas than others but i think that will be progress and we need to reform the tax code as well. host: please break down the cost of medicaid for medicare, what is it posting?

guest: medicare is mainly for retirees. it is like $700 billion in costs and rising quickly. medicaid is lower. and it is similar but the states are paying for half of that. 300, $400 billion of the federal level. most of it is for u.s. citizens, much it really -- mothers, pregnant women. host: what are you watching for in these days ahead of the looming shutdown? guest: i am looking for, they are not going to figure out how to fund the government on time. so we need to have 12 appropriations bills. they are not quite to do that. i hope they are going to kick the can. but do a continued resolution. the alternative is a shutdown which is wasteful.

i am hoping for an agreement with a process for them to get agreement on the bills they should have passed a long time ago. i worry that the house and senate are so far apart, they both want to break the fiscal responsibility act by spending more. i understand the impulse. but we have a deal that is causing more chaos. the senate wants to break it by making it fiscal irresponsibility act and adding more on top of it. i think we need to agree that a deal is a deal, keep fighting for more spending cuts and revenue going forward. host: marc goldwein with the committee for a responsible federal budget, go to their website to find more information about our nation's deficit in federal spending. thank you.

host: that doesn't for washington journal. we'll be back tomorrow at 7:00 a.m. eastern time. enjoy your week. ♪ [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> the u.s. house returns at noon for general speeches and house membe are considering several bills including legislation to ovide more transparency to patients about the cost and price of health re services. congress is currently facing a deadline to fund the government and overt shutdown on september 30. house republicans reached a deal over the weekend on a short-term bill to keep the govnment operating through october 31. the houseules committee is expected to takep the measure at 4 p.m. eastern today. as always can you can watch live

coverage of the house on c-span. >> join us tonight for the premiere of c-span's new series, books that shaped america. in partnership of the library of congress, we will explore 10 books from american literature that provoke thought, won awards, led to significant societal change and are still talked about today. this week, common sense, a 47 page pamphlet written by thomas payne in early 1776 at the height of tension between the american colonies and great britain. richard bell talks about how common sense -- had thomas paine urge for american independence from the british monarchy and then the declaration of independence was signed six months later. books that shaped america, featuring thomas payne's common sense at 9 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span now or online at c-span.org.