♪ >> join us tonight for the premiere of c-span's new series, "books that shaped america" in sponsorship with the library of congress we'll look at books that provoked thought and won awards and led significant societal change and is still talked about today. this week we feature "common retalk about how the declaration of independence was signed. tonight at 9:00 eastern on c-span, c-span now, the video app or on c-span.org.

scan the q.r. code to listen. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we're funded by these television companies and more, including comcast. >> you think this is just a community center? no, it's way more than that. >> comcast is partnering with thousands of community centers with lists so lowncome students can have everything ey need. and comcast supports c-span, giving you a front row seat to democracy. host: we're back this morning with mark goldwine, senior policy director for the committee for a responsible federal budget here to talk about u.s. deficit and federal spending. mark, let's begin with defining

deficit versus debt. do that and then tell us the difference. guest: thanks so much for having me this morning. the deficit is how much we borrow each we're and the debt is how much we owe. it's the sum of all of our past deficits. if you think of a credit card, the deficit is how much you've added to the credit card bill in 2023. the debt is how much you owe total. host: where are we at right now in 2023 with our deficit? guest: there are different ways to measure it but you talk about growth federal debt, $23 trillion. at how the public is a share of the economy. we are close to 100%. it is as large as a full year's worth of output. host: why are we in this position? guest: there is no one thing,

but the kobe crisis in the great recession before that included a lot of one time borrowing that got us far from our historical average of 50% to 100%. underlying that, we keep passing new tax cuts and new spending increases that widen our structural deficits and the agent of the population and rising health care costs put pressure on some of our oldest programs, social security and medicare to continue growing in cost. host: are we paying our credit card? guest: we are paying it with credit cards. we are borrowing a lot and we will roll over debt from previous years. host: according to the new report, the deficit is rising faster than projected. why? guest: last year's deficit was

$1 trillion, this year $2 trillion. effectively, the deficit has doubled. part of the reason is it turns out 2022 was a high water point. we had a good year in terms of tax question -- tax collection from capital gain. now, things are normal. adding to the cost of social security and medicare went up sharply because of inflation and our interest costs are as high as they've ever been since the 90's, with the average interest rate on new debt, even 5.5% in some cases. host: who is to blame? guest: host: we all are. the voters need to take was possibility because we love low taxes, government services and benefits. politicians keep making promises they can't afford.

they tell us don't worry about the borrowing because it will pay for itself or the spending program is so important. many of the economists are to blame. when interest rates were low, they said borrowing is cheap, let's do it. it did not occur to them interest rates will rise and we are going to roll over the cheap debt into expensive debt. host: this chart from your report shows the divergence between spending and revenue over the years. what can you tell us? what has been happening? guest: two things. we keep cutting taxes so revenue has a built in growth and as incomes grow up, revenue should be growing. that is not happen if we keep cutting taxes. the other is increased spending.

new government programs, one-time relief -- so that made sense and some of it did not. for example, covid. and we have allowed our largest programs including social security, medicare and medicaid to grow completely unfettered. we have known these are on a nonsustainable track. if you are on social security now, it will not be able to pay that in 10 years because it will be insolvent. yet we have done nothing to raise more revenue to finance it. host: why not? guest: because it is hard. it is fun to tell people i gave you a tax cut and protected your sources there social security benefits. it is hard to say in the interest of the greater good, we will have to raise the retirement age by one month

every two years. you will have to pay more taxes on your income. we can do it especially if republicans and democrats got together. but it is politically tough because nobody wants to pay more taxes or lower benefits host:. [indiscernible] don't -- host: one former president trump was in control, there were tax cuts. there was a piece about how much of those tax cuts will stay in place because president biden has said no one made -- making lesson $40,000 should see a tax increase. their reporting said much of trump's tax cut package stays in place. guest: it is possible. republicans cut taxes by about $2 trillion over 10 years in the

trump administration and join hands with democrats to increase spending and cut taxes by a combined almost $3 trillion more. many of those taxes expire at the end of 2025. though there has been talk of paying for suspensions, we don't know how they are going to do it. it is a big risk that the parties have joined together not with hard choices but by extending and expanding the tax cuts. host: we are eight working days away from a possible shutdown. conservative republicans are saying we need to address spending now. they want to spend 150 billion dollars less than what the president and speaker mccarthy agreed to in may. guest: that may agreement, the fiscal responsibly act is a good start.

democrats and republicans came together on a plan to freeze spending levels for -- per year and have it grow slowly next year. it would not solve our debt would save one to $2 trillion over a decade. we ought to go forward with this and then work on how to build on it. now, the house wants to spend below the deal. the senate wants to spend above the deal. they are taking all of this and declaring it an emergency. it was ordinary spending. but nobody wants to abide by it. let's pass this spending act and then go back for more. we will have to cut spending a lot to get the debt under control. host: let me ask our viewers to join us. democrats (202) 748-8000. republicans (202) 748-8001.

independent (202) 748-8002. and text us at (202) 748-8003. include your name, city and state. if we were to continue the trend we have been seeing over the next decade, where would that put us at? guest: am ug;u -- an ugly place. -- if we continue on our current trajectory, within 10 years we are going to be at 115 130% within 30 years. it will be several between 180 and 300% of gdp. there is no historical example and there are not any international cases.

the closest is japan. that is a recipe for slow and stagnant growth, rising interest costs, and talk to this. host: what would it take and how long to get out of the crisis? guest: we should start now. if we put $6 trillion in the debt reduction over the next decade, it would pull it to the lower sides of the economy. that would be important. it would mean we have cut tax rates or raise revenue. we have to restrict the growth of the appropriation. we have to get serious about health care costs under control and social security. if we wait till the right moment, it will cause because that could put us in a recession and are not going to feel good for the folks relying on various

programs. host: davey in arkansas, democrat. guests: -- caller: this morning we gave around $6 billion and the money had gained through oil sales. the accounts were on the trump administration. does this guest know anything about it? host: i don't think so. that is pretty specific. but to his point about spending money, and to foreign countries, right now, the continuing resolution. should it include an additional $20 billion for ukraine?

on top of the billions the government has been given to the country so far in the fight against russia. guest: i think what they're asking about, we owe iran for money -- money from when we were not in conflict. so the request was to release those funds. foreign aid is about 1% of the budget and we should have debate over whether it is worth it. we should scrutinize every dollar and spend it efficiently. but we are not going to fix it by cutting foreign aid, getting billion a supported taxes. changes to the tax code, reforms to health care. we can't get it from these tiny pots of money alone. >> have the committee center for the budget learned -- and what

does your group recommend? >> you can go to social security reformer.org. it allows anyone to design their own program. highschooler's of houston and members of congress have used it for legislation. there are only a few levels, your retirement age, your tax rate, much income is subject to that, the structure of the benefits of that, and the cost-of-living adjustment. you can tinker with all of them. you can personalize it. we do need more revenue into the program, but we also need to adjust the benefit formula and age and we can do all of this in a way that encourages economic growth. we put out a study last week that said if you do thoughtful security reform, you can boost income by $10,000 per person 30 years from now. so there is a tremendous upside.

host: what about health care? you mentioned that. what do you propose to do? guest: the united states spends about 50 percent on health care, twice the average. there is waste, some is overpayment, some is -- but will -- right now the medicaid program pays more if you see a doctor in a hospital which is the same doctor in a doctor setting. we can equalize that. there is an alternative to medicare called medicare advantage. it is called -- it costs the federal government more money because of the way the they recorded their costs.

just getting rid of some of the fraud and misreporting could save hundreds of billions of dollars over a decade. host: john. independent. >> thank you. i don't have an issue with the government shutdown over this spending. the ahead have one -- they have two jobs that would help me. securing the border and true church them without -- with our strong military. our taxes in con so -- i will otieno how your guest response to that.

host: ok. guests: the insomnia into -- most of with the special security program does an initial not resolve. wherever when you have a permanent shutdown. it might be for a week or a month and then will go back and we have federal employees for not working over that time. we will have backlogs and waste with no actual upside unless it leads to serious policy change. host: a disabled. -- and you say it won't. guest: it could. the only thing that that could come out of the shut down is it

leads to an unrelated policy change, and leverage point to lead to an improvement in policy. it does not make the government more efficient, but less. host: we talked with her audience earlier about discretionary spending versus mandatory. those two letters and what this debate is on capitol hill about setting the government down from the toppling figure. does that impact mandatory spending, social security and medicare checkout -- medicare? guest: people will still get their social security and medicare. but people newly applying mega trouble. we do see a discretionary budget from the initiation of these programs. host: eric in duluth, minnesota. democrat. caller: i would like to give a statement as to whether it is the overspending or the cutting

of taxes, which is to blame? since the era of the in rate -- the pregnant magician, when the first tax cuts occurred, the number of billionaires in the u.s. has increased. number 13 at the start of the reagan administration and their and our thousand. they did quite well during the period the national debt has accrued. guest: asking me if tax cuts or spending is to blame is like which side of the scissors into the cutting. they both are. need to stop cutting taxes over and over and focus on egregious tax breaks that as you say benefit billionaires. we also keep spending more and we have done almost nothing to

get under control our two largest spending programs, social security and medicare. host: in georgetown, south carolina, independent. caller: i wanted to talk about the national debt and the situation of spending cuts. i think it is really messed up to talk about cutting medicare spending and social security spending. because the united states spends over $700 billion a year just in military spending. even with the nuclear stuff and everything, it ends up being about $1 trillion a year in federal spending just in military defense. we could be cutting that spending by a lot in order to help fund these programs that help working-class people. host: has your group looked into

pentagon spending? guest: for sure. thank you. there is incredible waste in the defense department and lots of room to cut and bring that under control. i want to point out that when it comes to medicare, there is so much we can do to save people money that is not actually cutting benefits. it is improving the value of the program. that is what we did and the inflation reduction act will be put in place negotiations for drug prices and caps so they can't raise it. the ideas that president obama talked about before trump. when it comes to medicare, there is so much room to lower costs and ways to improve benefits. social security is 10 years from insolvency. if you don't touch it, the law calls for about a $70,000 cut from retiring over 10 years. we have to get it under control

for its own case. you have to do that with new revenue. and then we need to look at defense spending. social security, medicare and defense is looking at all three and knotting the budget seriously. guests: two they have to do any sort of accounting for congress? guest: congress does this in two parts. they authorize the money and then they appropriate it to the appropriations process. with this fund successfully it no -- that has not happened yet. we should be cutting west -- weapon systems because the commercial district.

not because they're the best ways you tied to bureaucracy ill with domain sense. there's sergeant into natural only get. yes: what habits in the body -- an audience just for guests: understands the mission of -- but it should be brought so that a proper audit can be done. host: hello. i am wondering if use aware of this magic number of $37,000, and i want boesch one, the

father-in-law died in a nursing home and the family received a bill for $37,000. the man only owned $5,000 worth of property. the other is my sister has asbestos and a tumor in her lung. her first award came in this month and medicare sent -- took out 900 of the 1100 that she was awarded by the bankruptcy court that handles these cases. they said they will continue taking one third of whatever she gets until she has repaid $37,000. it seems to be a magic number and nobody knows where it comes from. it is never heard of it. guest: it is not something i've

heard of either party to look into it. the first might be medicaid, medicare. it doesn't like a lot of money but i'm not sure what the magic of 37 thousand dollars is. host: when was the last time the u.s. was not in a deficit? guest: in 2001 we had a balanced budget. we started the hard work of bipartisan -- of balancing the budget through some reductions but especially in a 90 -- the commission of their efforts and accommodate bonus abounds -- we have cut taxes and the wars in iraq and afghanistan, the global financial crisis and then we increased spending and cut taxes. and then we had a coma recession

-- covid recession and know we are adding to the deficit. the balance seems so far out of reach even though it was only 20 years ago. host: what would it take to get back to a surplus? guest: cutting spending by about a quarter and increasing revenue by about a third. this is not realistic in the broader sense. it goes from unrealistic to impossible if you take things like social security and veterans often table. or state we are only going to raise taxes on people making $40,000. we are not going to get to balanced any time soon and that is ok. we don't need a balanced budget. what we need is a budget where deficits are small enough that the economy can grow faster than the debt. so the debt to gdp at about 100 right now is going down. there is no magic number. the direction is what matters. you cannot have a debt that is

growing faster than the gdp indefinitely. the more we produce it, the better it is for economic growth. but step one should be let's hold 100% of gdp. host: can it go higher? guest: i would prefer it not. don't know the breaking points. we know the higher the -- the debt is, the more interest, -- let's follow what we need to for emergencies at recession. we put out a study that it is different from a trajectory and it will flow. the eye kinky yeah. so that might be hard financially craters.

-- that would be devastating. think of all of the financial crises with note u.s. government to bail out companies and citizens in need. there is no number when that happens and i hope it never does. but at the risk it becomes likely as your death client. guests: -- ceo who is granted money in excess of the president's salary should not have any more than the president's salary deductible from corporate taxes. that is all i had to say. guest: we do have a policy like that in the tax code that limits the deductibility of executive compensation. i believe it is over $5 million

for the ceo and $2 million for other officers. you could lower it to form 2000 but we have the structure of that already in the tax code. host: jennifer in ohio, independent. question or comment about the deficit. caller: i would like to say they cut off the tax returns. i would also like to say the refugees bring in the refugee act, awarded all of the retirees they came over here, social security, and all they did was call their browser -- brothers, sisters, mothers and brothers. now they get social security. what should not be paying for the world's retirement. host: any thoughts? guest: the effects of immigration on the budget are interesting.

at the federal level, most of them are a net positive for the budget. the pay of them in social communities, but not all of them can do this. and then we have made people effectively playing in the arcade without this. i do think we have to have more complicated reform and fiscal effects and it is a good way to share more evenly. host: in indiana, a republican. caller: good morning. i've got three things. the government does not fund social security and medicaid. we pay for that out of our paper checks -- paychecks. how much is the government still owe social security and medicaid? three, i know so many people

there passing those candidate out to people who shouldn't be on it. guests: social security is text out of the and him wreck -- income. the payroll tax that pays for social security is only covering about .75 percent of the cost. and when it runs out, it creates trouble. i made sure there is a 23% opossum board childhood. not to help the rest of the federal government, but the wood -- it affects the poor 92-year-old widow the same as it affects this is two-year-old millionaire.

host: a meal in colorado's has one of a idea. guest: we don't labor force sprays in this country. issuing on here and now you would hear employers saying they're having trouble finding workers. and is you. and i'm from including willing parents, workers and their related she's. there is also a huge part -- personal advantage. people that work a little longer have more money saved up. they are happier, healthier. they live longer and have stronger social network. they have lower divorce rates because they are not at home annoying there spouse.

they drink less and watch less tv. people that are able to stand the workforce longer are better off financially, physically and mentally. we need a system that allows the flexibility that people who are retired at the edge they need to. host: scott from california, democrat. caller: great discussions, i'm amazed i'm about to agree with a republican from texas earlier who was talking about our -- to refer to social security as entitlement is condescending. the fact that every single paycheck i have earned my entire life, i am now 55, has had social security deductions taken from it. this is where we differ. i believe that to expect

unlimited potential growth in our economy is kind of a mistake. it is not going to work. it might touch on what you talked about with wondering to extend the years people does before their -- they are able to retire. we have an aging population. the baby boomers were a lot of of that generation and they took up the bulk of the workforce for best first. gen-x is smaller and millennials even smaller. there are not enough human beings in the population faced with income the baby boomers generated. host: i think we understand.

mark. guest: i'm not sure used the word entitlement but i don't think it is inappropriate. it means you are entitled to the benefit. he paid into it, he is entitled to it. the amount that we are paying in right now, it only covers about three quarters of the cost. do we do anything and soon for social security so that people can continue to have benefits jericho -- benefits jericho -- benefits? young retiree today will be 72 whether benefits get slashed. today's 57-year-old will be just retiring with was $75,000 to benefits.

to subsidize ukraine or defense, we need to save it for its own sake so contributions cover its own costs. i am ability -- confident in my ability to keep growing. i do -- we're not quite to have it going forward. but i would like to have 2% growth, 1% growth or 0% growth. and that is looking at everything we do, whether on the labor side or with better investment, better research, can make a big difference. host: caroline west virginia, independent. caller: good morning. i was wondering if we could do a spending freeze, also not really cut but freeze until they can

task an audit. any department that can't pass an audit should not get any increases i think we need to do it line by line to find out where we can cut. that includes from the top down. reform the tax bill. everybody wants the rich to pay their fair share. but they never do anything about reforming any of the tax laws that put them there. i think we can do a better job if we would do it line by line and we will be able to find more aware we could cut across the board. guest: i used to work on a partisan physical commission. tom coburn was the first to freeze pentagon spending before they tested the audit. i think it was a good idea when

he's just in it and still when you suggested it. or mine in the weight. with tougher -- it is tougher in some areas than others but i think that will be progress and we need to reform the tax code as well. host: please break down the cost of medicaid for medicare, what is it posting? guest: medicare is mainly for retirees. it is like $700 billion in costs and rising quickly. medicaid is lower. and it is similar but the states are paying for half of that. 300, $400 billion of the federal level. most of it is for u.s. citizens,

much it really -- mothers, pregnant women. host: what are you watching for in these days ahead of the looming shutdown? guest: i am looking for, they are not going to figure out how to fund the government on time. so we need to have 12 appropriations bills. they are not quite to do that. i hope they are going to kick the can. but do a continued resolution. the alternative is a shutdown which is wasteful. i am hoping for an agreement with a process for them to get agreement on the bills they should have passed a long time ago. i worry that the house and senate are so far apart, they both want to break the fiscal responsibility act by spending more.

i understand the impulse. but we have a deal that is causing more chaos. the senate wants to break it by making it fiscal irresponsibility act and adding more on top of it. i think we need to agree that a deal is a deal, keep fighting for more spending cuts and revenue going forward. host: marc goldwein with the committee for a responsible federal budget, go to their website to find more information about our nation's >> join us tonight for c-span's new series, "books that shaped america." in partnership with the library of congress we'll look at 10 books that provoke thought, won awards, led significant societal change and still talked about today. this week we'll feature common

sense, a 47-page pamphlet written by thomas paine in 1776 at the height of tensions between the american colonies and great britain. richard bell, professor at the university of maryland talks about how thomas paine drew his pamphlet, strongly urged for american independence from the monarchy and six months later the declaration of independence was signed. watch books that shaped america featuring thomas paine "common sense." online at c-span.org or scan our q.r. code to listen to our companion podcast to learn more about the authors featured. >> a healthy democracy doesn't just look like this, it looks like this. where americans can see democracy at work, when citizens are truly informed, our republic

survives. on c-span, unfiltered, unbiased, word for word from the nation's capitol to wherever you are. this is what carriers looks like. powered by cable. >> up next, secretary of state antony blinken talks about the release of prisoners and came after $6 billion of iranian assets were unfrozen by the u.s. >> good morning, everyone. just a few minutes ago i had the great pleasure of speaking to seven americans who are now free, free from their imprisonment or detention in iran, out of iran, out of prison, and now in doha en route back to the united states to be reunited with their loved ones.

five of the seven, of course, had been unjustly detained, imprisoned in iran, some for years, two others had been prevented from leaving iran. i spoke to them after they landed in doha. i can tell you that it was for them, for me, an emotional conversation. conversation. it's easy in the work that we do every day, sometimes to get lost in the abstractions of foreign policy relations with other countries, and forgetting the human element that's at the heart of everything we do. but today their freedom, the freedom of these americans for so long unjustly imprisoned and detained and iran mean some pretty basic things. it means that husbands and

wives, fathers and children, grandparents can hug each other again, can see each other again, can be with each other again. so today i am grateful for. i want to thank a number of partners who have been so vital to helping us reach this day, take the our partners and amman, switzerland, qatar, the united kingdom, each has played a very important role in enabling us to free our fellow citizens. i would also like to thank an extraordinary team, state department and throughout the united states government, that is working to achieve this result for years now. as happy as are at the freedom of our fellow citizens, we also are thinking today about bob levens who is not among them and

is presumed deceased. bob's legacy, however, lives on. it does on powerfully in the levinson act which is given us new and important tools to help crackdown and the terror the practice of taking americans unlawfully come to try to turn them into political pawns, and to abuse the international system in that way. one of the things i heard in my conversation with our fellow citizens who are now free is their own determination, their own commitment, the own conviction to continuing this work come to making sure the americans who unjustly detained anywhere in world come home. to date under this administration we have now brought 30 americans home from laces around the world where they were being unjustly detained. that work will continue. at the same time we are going to be working every single day to

take steps to make this practice more and more difficult, and more and more of a burden on those countries that engage in it, and you'll see in the days ahead here in new york at the united nations our efforts to work with other countries to do just that. for today, for this moment, it's very good to be able to say that our fellow citizens are free after injuring some that think it would be difficult for any of us to imagine, that their families will soon have the back among them and that in this moment at least i have something very joyful to report. finally, let me say that throughout this effort, throughout the work we've done to bring so many other americans home, president biden has demonstrated that he is prepared

to make tough and difficult decisions. i have no higher priority. the president has no higher priority than making sure that americans were unjustly detained anywhere can come home, and we will continue that work. thank you. >> based on the swap this week, will there be, are you expecting any indirect call for the iranians this week, intensive? are not talked about dyer talks -- any sort of relaying messages? >> thank you. well, two things. first, let me be very clear that this process into engagements necessary to bring it about, the freedom of these unjustly detained americans, has always been a separate tract in our engagement or for that matter like an engagement with iran.

irrespective of what was happening or not happening, for example, in the average return to nuclear agreement, we've been focused on working individually to bring these americans will. so doesn't speak to anything else relationship. we continue to be determined to take whatever steps necessary to deal with actions by iran and whole host of areas that are profoundly objectionable and that many of the countries find objectionable. at the same time when it comes to perhaps the number one issue of concern which is iran's nuclear program we continually diplomacy is the best way to get a sustainable effective result, when we had previously with the iran nuclear agreement, and will continue to see if there are opportunities for that in this moment. we are not engaged on that but we'll see in the future if there are opportunities but president biden has been very clear that one way or another he's committed to ensuring that iran never acquire a nuclear weapon.

[inaudible question] >> i wouldn't anticipate anything this week. we are focused today on the fact that these americans are now free after having endured something that i think most of us can't possibly imagine, in one case one of our fellow americans was imprisoned for eight years, unjustly, and that's what we're focused on for today. [inaudible question] [inaudible question]

>> in fact, we met with our gc colleagues, our fellow americans have not yet arrived in doha so we did want to get ahead of that process. having said that, as i mentioned, two countries in particular played an absolute vital role to get us to this day, and that is i'm on an qatar. as with other members of the gcc, i've had occasion over the past many months to talk to them -- i'm on an qatar. talking about the relationship with iran which is a child for each and everyone of them including for us. and to discuss in the context some of the efforts that were making to bring home are wrongfully detained americans. can i want to speak for them but i think everyone is supportive of that effort. with regard to the resources, i think it's very important to be very clear about exactly what this involved. as you know, this involves the

access by iran to its own money, money that had accumulated in korean bank as result of oil sales to iran made which were lawful at the time though sales were made. and from day one our sanctions have clearly and indeed always exempt the use of resources for humanitarian purposes. because our aim is not to harm the iranian people. our problem, our profound problem is with the iranian regime. so from day one these iranian monies that were in a korean bank have always been available to iran to use for humanitarian purposes. but for a lot of technical reasons they were not able to access of those funds where they were. so the funds were moved to another bank where we have absolute oversight of how they

are used, and they can only be used for humanitarian purposes. and we have absolute confidence in the process and in the system that is been set up. by the way, the previous administration, administration prior to ours, have set up a similar mechanism that was never used that exact for these kinds of purposes. so we are very confident that the funds, the iranian funds that have been made more easily available to iran as a result of the actions that we have taken will be used exclusively for humanitarian purposes, and we have the means and mechanisms to make sure that happens thanks very much. [captioning performed by thenat, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023] >> join us tonight for the premier of c-span's new series, books that shaped america. in partnership with the library of congress, we'll explore 10 books from american literature

that provoked thought, won awards, led to significant societal change and are still talked about today. this week we'll feature "common sense," written by thomas paine in early 1776 at the height of tensions between the american colonies and great britain. our guest, richard bell, history professor at the university of maryland, talks about how thomas paine strongly urged for american independence from the british monarchy and six months later the declaration of independence was signed. watch books that shaped america featuring thomas paine's "common sense" tonight at 9:00 eastern on c-span, c-span now, our free mobile video app, or online at c-span.org. listen to our companion podcast. >> and now, testimony from white house defense department and homeland security