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building 100,000 miles of new infrastructure to reach those who need it most. announcer: charter communications supports c-span as a pubc service along with his other providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. announr: coming up on "washington journal", your calls and comments live. we will talk about the september 30 government funding deadline. and then demoat congressman earl blunar and freedom caucusemr matt rosendale. "washington journal" starts now. ♪ host: good morning on this thursday, september 21. we are 10 days out from a

government shutdown. speaker mccarthy says he has made progress with the gop holdouts to fund the government and avoid that shutdown. we will get your take on the latest proposal from the republicans and the looming deadlines. democrats dial in at (202)-748-8000, republicans at (202)-748-8001, and independents at (202)-748-8002. text us including your first name, city, and state, at (202)-748-8003. the same line for federal workers this morning. you can join us on facebook.com/c-span or post on x with the handle @cspanwj. let's look at the latest proposal put out by house leadership in hopes of garnering more support from his own party. this is what he proposed to conservatives last night behind

closed doors. it would set t crent government funding level at $1.47 trilln while they work out a rg deal. ithes the border security legislation tohis stopgap measure. it sets spending levels at $2.56 trillion, which was below what was agreed on. and it would also set up a commission to address the u.s. national debt. now, last night matt gaetz, who is one of those so-called holdouts, a conservative member from florida, tweeted out a statement from the former president. matt gaetz says, "trump opposes this continuing resolution. hold the line," he says.

here is what the former president wrote. "an important deadline is approaching. congress can and must defund all aspects of joe biden's weaponized government that refuses to close the border and treats half the country as enemies of the state. it is the last time to defund those against me and other patriots. use the power of the purse and defend the country." that is the former president's message to his republican colleagues in the house. cnn caught up with matt gaetz and another conservative, chip roy, republican of texas and part of the freedom caucus, and he has been negotiating with moderate republicans. you will first hear from chip roy about the conservatives who are against this latest

proposal, and what he thinks about republicans working with democrats to keep the government open. following those comments is matt gaetz. [video clip] >> with all due respect, let them explain why they do not support that. it is inexplicable. i think it is indefensible. now we have got to try to figure out how to move the ball forward but we had agreement in good faith. >> what the speaker's job be in peril if he did not rely on democrats? >> i would call the capital moving truck to his office pretty soon because my expectation would be that he would be at the speaker's office promptly. host: cnn reporting. joining us this morning is mychael schnell.

how gop reports progress in spending talks as some holdouts relent. who are these holdouts that have relented and who has not? guest: there is the unlocking of a pentagon appropriations bill, some holdouts have relented letting them move forward, and then we have the continuing resolution deal. if we talk about the pentagon appropriations bill, hard-line conservatives voted against a procedural vote to advance this appropriations bill essentially over demands for deeper spending, plus, they wanted to know the top line figures for the fall appropriations bill. and because the house was not moving ahead swiftly with considering all 12 of these bills. but just yesterday after that closed door meeting -- which lasted over two hours, which is a long gathering -- two of those

conservatives said they would relent on that hesitation. they will allow the vote to go ahead and this is because of the commitments speaker mccarthy made in this continuing resolution plan. just a button up the situation, the house is scheduled to take up that rule today for the appropriations bill. it is expected to go through whether the legislation will have the votes. but the fact they will advance this piece of legislation is a win for kevin mccarthy. now you get to this proposal which would be a continuing resolution through october 31 with funding back to fiscal year 2022 levels. that is something conservatives had been asking for. it would give commitments that the 12 appropriations bills would be considered at $1.5

trillion and would include that commission on studying the federal debt and deficit. also, it includes parts of the house gop's border bill, minus a controversial provision. emerging from this closed door meeting a number of republicans said they were supportive, including two holdouts that said they were against the initial resolution. that is ralph norman from south carolina and bob good. they said they would vote for this continuing resolution proposal, but kevin mccarthy is not out of the woods yet. there are three conservative republicans who emerged from that meeting saying they would not support this continuing resolution and we heard from congressman matt gaetz and tim burchett who said they know of seven lawmakers -- including

them -- you will never vote for a continuing resolution. it was successful for him because he was able to unlock that pentagon appropriations bill and flip some holdouts. but whether or not he is victorious, we have got to figure that out. host: how does the statement by the former president factor in? guest: it is not going to help. former president trump is a very popular figure within the republican party, especially the house gop conference. a number of republicans have endorsed him indictment after indictment after indictment. him asking that he wants funding measures to defund the department of justice, which is currently investigating him, is undoubtably going to place pressure on these conservative republicans.

whether or not it will lead to their opposition, we will have to figure that out. that was a late night development last night. but it is undoubtably going to be a question we ask today and the days to come. when you talk about the influence former president trump has on republicans in the house, it could affect funding talks. host: you heard, and our viewers heard, from chip roy and matt gaetz saying if the speaker were to move to put a so-called clean resolution on the floor that it would be a bad move and they would try to oust him from his position. where are democrats on passing a clean cr and if there is a vote to remove kevin

mccarthy, with a vote in favor? guest: the first question is easy. house democrats want a clean resolution. they want to pass a continuing resolution to fund the government for x amount of days. and they also want to tack on the $40 billion request the white house unveiled which includes money for ukraine and disaster relief. that is what democrats have wanted from the get-go. they are not going to get that because you have to compromise with republicans, but that is where democrats stand. your other question is fascinating and more difficult. if a vote on ousting kevin mccarthy were brought to the floor, how would democrats act? i published a piece on that this week. i asked house democrats how they would go forward. they said there is not a plan in place yet. top lawmakers brushed aside the question as premature, a

hypothetical, saying they are focused on funding the government. of course, september 30 is approaching. but after president biden and speaker mccarthy cut a deal to raise the debt limit, house democrats thought they would save kevin mccarthy. the speaker did well by them. they cut a deal with the president, something that received bipartisan support in the house, so they were feeling good. but then came the house led committees marking up the appropriations bill at lower caps, which soured democrats' thoughts. but kevin mccarthy opening an impeachment inquiry into president biden last week -- a number of democrats said after the debt limit they were thinking about considering

saving him. now that is an open question. some of them did not want to do that. i spoke to eric swalwell who said he would oust mccarthy. here is the wildcard. some democrats said they would potentially save mccarthy, but at a price. i spoke to congresswoman aoc and she said there would be a price to pay. could we see negotiation? it is a possibility. at the end of the day what democrats do is going to be significant. they are split on kevin mccarthy. some want to get rid of him but he has a lot of support among leadership and rank and file members. the one that can be a difference maker and determine his fate are democrats.

they would likely vote during a block. they have enough votes to determine his fate. it is something worth keeping an eye on. host: mychael schnell, coming up, we talk with matt rosendale. tell our viewers why they should listen to him. guest: he is one to watch in this fight. i was not able to catch up with them after yesterday but he says he is a no cr. he could be part of the seven matt gaetz talked about. he was also one of the house republicans during that drawnout speakers race in january that never supported kevin mccarthy. there is no love lost between them and it would not be surprising if rosendale does not cave to mccarthy and does not support the continuing resolution. each one of these lawmakers really matters at the end of the day because house republicans

have a slim majority. they can only lose a handful of votes, but especially when you have one that is so critical and polarizing, each will be important to watch. host: mychael schnell was up on capitol hill well into the evening last night and then back here to help us understand this evolving story. you can follow her reporting if you go to thehill.com or on x @thehill. guest: thank you for having me. host: joe in new jersey, an independent. what do you make of this happening on capitol hill? caller: all i got to say is they keep talking about republicans. what are the democrats ready to do? you hear a little of this and a little of that.

host: republicans are in control. they control what comes to the floor. guest: sure, but than the democrats say "no" and then they should put something forward but they don't. they leave it up to the republicans. host: because they are in control of the house. they control what comes to the floor. democrats don't. you just heard from mychael schnell that republicans do not have the votes within their own party for a continuing resolution. jim in highland park, new jersey, 10 days until shutdown. caller: i agree with what you said. the republicans are in control of the legislation that comes before congress. consequently, the ball is in

their court. excuse me, it is early in the morning. [laughter] host: it is. we understand. caller: the ball is in their court and it is up to them to bring into the floor. host: got it. patty murray, chair of the appropriations committee in the senate, democrat of washington state, on the floor yesterday expressing her disappointment that consideration of the package of bills was stymied in that chamber. they are having their own holdouts in the senate. they wanted to package three appropriations bills into one mini omnibus and pass that on the floor, but that was objected to. [video clip]

>> as my colleagues know, i am not going to give up here. i am going to keep pushing with everything i got to pass the spending bill and get our community the resources they need. but i do have to say that i am deeply disappointed. i am not new to politics. i am not new to tough votes or setbacks. i know this work is never easy but it is unfortunate this overwhelming bipartisan process and this package of bills that passed unanimously has been stymied by the objections of just a few senators. that is upsetting and pretty hard to square with the talks we hear about wanting to work together, wanting to break the pattern of partisanship, wanting to help people, wanting to solve problems, to say nothing of how our loudest complainers talking big about their commitment to

return to regular ardor, who have been railing against these bills at the end of the year led the effort to halt our best shot at getting closer to regular order. and possibly setting us on a collision course for another massive omnibus. host: the chair of the appropriations committee, patty murray on the floor yesterday. her committee has passed all 12 appropriations bills. they call it a bipartisan effort in that chamber. when they tried to bring three to the floor in a package, that was objected to. there are obstacles in the upper chamber as well as the lower chamber in the house where republicans control that body of congress. and republicans have yet, it appears, to get the votes they need within their own party to pass a continuing resolution with cuts in spending and the

border security provision. it is a moving story this morning. we want to give you the opportunity to tell washington what you want them to do. eddie in massachusetts, republican. hi, eddie. caller: how are you? you said it will cost them but is it true? the deficit would be $2 trillion? she is an economic major. we cannot sustain that. it is going to cost hundreds of billions of dollars in interest payments. host: 10 days until a government shutdown. democrats dial in at (202)-748-8000, republicans at (202)-748-8001, independents at

(202)-748-8002. federal workers, if you are going to be impacted or not, call in at (202)-748-8003. that same line, (202)-748-8003, can be used by all of you to text us your thoughts on this debate happening in washington. include your first name, city, and state. you can also go to facebook.com/c-span or post on x @cspanwj. this is a post on x. they have had how long to work this out and now we are in crisis mode. can you impeach representatives? lisa, democratic caller, what do you think? caller: i want to call in to respond to the guy that just talked a few minutes ago. called in on the independent line. as soon as you open your mouth, we know who you are, you are a

donald trump supporter. unfortunately, probably listens to fox news where you are not getting the truth of what is going on. as soon as you open your mouth, that is clearly known you do not know what is going on. this is something the republicans do. they always create a circus and their supporters are in with what they are doing. it is unfortunate the american people have to suffer these shutdowns when they are in control. this is what they do. but when you call in and you think -- host: we already heard that point. david in auburn, new york. caller: good morning. i have to make an observation. when they have a shutdown they do not pull the plug on everything.

they shut down unnecessary parts of the government. so, if that is what happens, why are there unnecessary parts of the government? if it comes to a shutdown and they have to decide what not to fund, that would be interesting. we will find out what is necessary and what is not. host: david is referring to what they deem as essential, the essential parts of the government that would stay open. this is from the wall street journal. long lines at airports, delayed food safety inspections, halted infrastructure projects, military personnel working without pay, fbi investigations shut down. these are some of the potential consequences if the government partially shuts down next month.

republicans weighed in on wednesday for the first time wednesday and pete buttigieg was in the committee room for about six hours on capitol hill. abc news with the post on x telling lawmakers a government shutdown would come "at exactly the wrong moment as they address the ongoing traffic controller issue." those are some of the potential possibilities of a government shutdown in 10 days. that is the deadline. september 30 by midnight this congress needs to have a spending proposal in place. that is a short-term measure for 30 days that would give them another month to negotiate on a larger bill to fund the government in 2024.

we are getting your thoughts this morning. dial in. democrats (202)-748-8000, republicans (202)-748-8001, independents (202)-748-8002. federal workers who would be furloughed, dial in at (202)-748-8003. over in the senate majority leader chuck schumer put this out in a post on x. "we have members on the maga hard right bragging they want a shutdown. that would be disastrous, unnecessary, and avoidable. this has been the problem with extremism from the start. they hate governing. chaos is the only word in their playbook." republican senator john cornyn yesterday arguing it is the senate democrats who should be blamed for a potential shutdown. [video clip] >> the majority leader bears

responsibility for the senate's failure to pass a single bill so far. they gave senator schumer exactly what he needed in order to do his job on a timely basis. the fact that senator schumer fumbled the ball is no one's fault but his own. this is not a maga shutdown. this is a schumer shutdown. he ignored his own commitment to return to regular order, and i was not privy to the conversations the majority leader had with his chair and ranking member, but based on what they did and my impression is that they held hope that we would have an orderly and timely process. i know that is what they want. that is what i want.

but senator schumer made sure that was not possible. ultimately, he will carry much of the blame if the government shuts down next saturday. host: senator john cornyn, republican of texas. it is your turn to tell washington what you think of this back and forth and the potential shutdown. jim in north carolina, republican. caller: good morning. i really do not care about the back and forth. if we cannot cut this deficit, it is going to be devastating for the country and i think a lot of simpleminded people do not understand that. my theory is shut it down. if we cannot get a big chunk of biden's fantasy world cut out of their, that is what we need to do. host: markhost: in new york, democratic caller. caller: thank you for c-span.

i think republicans cannot govern and i think they have to play these games to get what they want, which means we are not going to fund the government unless you give us this and these cuts. meanwhile, wasn't it trump that ran up the deficit trillions of dollars so he could give tax cuts to billionaires? it is pathetic. i do not understand how people could vote for republicans who do not like government, who only care about billionaires, who are climate change deniers. this country is in a big mess and i think the democrats should fight them harder. i think they are being too kind. host: he mentioned the former president putting out a statement last night asking his republican colleagues to hold out for more. he wants them to push for

defunding of the justice department and those investigations against him. that they should not support the resolution unless it has those cuts to those federal agencies. punch bowl news tweeting out the trump statement and noting the last government shutdown occurred during the trump administration and lasted 35 days. there is jake sherman's tweet alongside the former president's statement. jake sherman saying, "he folded after 35 days having exacted absolutely nothing." he has covered capitol hill for many years. let's hear from brad in d.c., independent. caller: good morning. i say let the government shut down.

the national debt is over $32 trillion and is the biggest threat against our nation. bigger than climate change, bigger than russia and ukraine, bigger than china and north korea. if we do not get this debt under control, we will not last as a nation. that is a fact. this has increased continually year after year after year. it has never decreased. it is time to make some cuts. i remember -- follow me for a second -- during the housing boom, i remember these houses selling for more than they were worth and i wondered, where is this money coming from? it is not a solid asset. we learned where that money came from when the bubble burst. it came from the other side where people lost money. we have been spending money as a nation, especially with covid and everything else -- and some

of it was necessary -- but it is time the bubble is preparing to burst and we need to make hard choices. we need to make some cuts. the white house statement about defunding about the military is a straight out like. e. the military is not part of this as well as social security, which the democrats come out with this lie that people will not get social security checks. they will. but defunding the fbi? that does not seem like a bad thing, as well as the doj. i say shut it down. let's make some difficult decisions. thank you. host: are you aware members of congress would still get paid if there is a government shutdown? caller: you know, that disturbs me as well. we could go on to another tangent. we could go on to term limits for congress.

i strongly advocate that. if you want to talk about that, i am open to that too. host: you may be interested in this legislation from a democrat, angie craig. republicans control what legislation comes to the floor and this is a democrat. she puts on x, "my constituents should not have to pay the prices for your deals with the freedom caucus. i introduce the mccarthy shutdown act to stop a member paid during government shutdowns. stop negotiating with crazy and work with us on a deal to stop a shutdown altogether." the mccarthy shutdown act, the mccarthy part stands for my constituents cannot afford rebellious tantrums. handle your shutdowns act. that was put forward by angie craig, democrat of minnesota. jonathan in homestead,

florida. you are a federal worker. do you want to tell us where you work? caller: i hear a lot of callers blaming both sides for the shutdown but we get this every year. i think the biggest thing is the bundled packages that congress puts forward. there are some republicans or democrats on both sides calling for single budget bills and i think that is the way forward. the economy cannot go off a projected budget for a conglomerate of thousands of trillions of dollars. what we need to do is single them out, figure out what we need and what we don't need, and we can save the money and pass those nonsense bills quickly. host: explain how you as a federal worker start to prepare

for a potential shutdown. have those preparations begun? caller: we started looking at who is essential and not essential. some of those essential people might work and not get paid. and then the non-essential people stay home and stay put and figure out whether we get paid later on or not. each family has to figure out whether they can budget for two weeks or a month of shutdown and not getting paid. host: randy in wisconsin, republican. caller: good morning, greta. host: morning. caller: the guy from washington, d.c. took my fire. i am a maga conservative. make america great again conservative, that is what it

stands for whether you like it or not. if anyone should stay, it should only be those in the senate, the house, and the president. when the bill is signed they do not get back pay because they threatened to shut the military down and social security. they tried to scare the electorate. a bunch of baloney. they lose their pay. and they got all summer. they took off all summer and they are fighting again. fighting like a bunch of little kids in washington, d.c. it is sickening to listen to all of that. that is my thoughts. host: as a republican, would you support the democrats' legislation? caller: as far as shutting the pay down? host: for members of congress. caller: 100%. that would wake them up. that would set them on -- that

would wake them up. you are going to lose your pay if you do not get back to washington and pass a bill for the country. that is your job. that is what you got elected for. host: randy, where are you on adding funding for ukraine? $20 billion additional dollars for ukraine as part of any resolution. caller: give them what they need immediately. if they need the jets, whatever. quit messing around with this dibble dabble. both feet, jump in. whatever it takes to get the u.n. and everybody else involved. people are getting killed all the time, both sides. stop it. host: randy, republican in wisconsin. this is what anthony in detroit says. "shut it down. not another dime for ukraine. rand paul and marjorie taylor

greene say they will hold the line, but i have doubts. i wish the progressives would have proposed ukraine war funding." this if you are referring to senator rand paul, republican of kentucky, yesterday. he announced he would not be supporting a continuing resolution if it includes funding for ukraine, and he would hold it up. while he was giving those remarks, at the same time the leader of ukraine was in new york city at the u.n. assembly asking for more support, and to continue to pressure russia and do more to help them, the country, in their fight against russia. yesterday on capitol hill behind closed doors senators got a briefing from national security

about the situation in ukraine. that is ahead of the ukrainian president coming to capitol hill today to meet with lawmakers. chuck schumer came to the microphone and had very brief comments to say to reporters. [video clip] >> i am going to be brief. hang on. ok. it is very clear if we were to have a government shutdown or pass a cr with no ukraine aid that the effect on ukraine would be quick and devastating. we cannot let putin win. without aid ukraine could run the strong risk of being defeated. thank you. host: the majority leader on capitol hill last night. earlier in the day senator rand paul spoke about his opposition

to any spending bill that includes more money for ukraine. [video clip] >> i will not consent to any expedited passage of any spending bill that provides anymore american aid to ukraine. it is as if no one noticed we have no extra money to send to ukraine. our deficit this year will exceed $1.5 trillion. borrowing money from china to send to ukraine makes no sense. it is not as if we have some rain need a fund sitting around, trillions of dollars and we are good to send to ukraine. we are going to borrow it. when we borrow it and create new money to pay for that borrowing we create the inflation that is plaguing our economy. since the beginning of russia's war in ukraine the american taxpayers have provided ukraine with $113 billion.

over the 583 days of war between february 4, 2022, and the end of the month, that averages $6.8 billion per month. there is a lot of things we need to fix in our country before we borrow money to try to perpetuate a war in another country. when will the aid request end? when will the war end? can some explain what victory looks like? president biden cannot. his administration has failed to articulate a clear strategy or objective in this war, and ukraine's long-awaited counteroffensive has failed to make meaningful gains in the east. with no clear end in sight it looks like ukraine will be another endless quagmire funded by the american taxpayer. host: senator rand paul on the floor yesterday. you can hear more if you go to

c-span.org. ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy at the united tions yesterday. front page of the washington post with the headline, timid on the war. the new york times has the headline about the speaker, kevin mccarthy, declining to allow the ukrainian leader to address the house. mr. zelenskyy will be on capitol hill today and meet behind closed doors with lawmakers. from the new york times, speaker mccarthy facing a right wing rebellion and resistance to aiding ukraine. declining to convene a forum for the president to address members on thursday. they were supposed to meet privately but his decision not to host a meeting where the ukrainian president could make a

direct appeal to rank-and-file lawmakers underscores the deep republican division over continued u.s. assistance for the fight against the russian invasion. it also reflects mr. mccarthy's own precarious position as he faces ire from the right wing over federal spending and threats to oust him. if he does not embrace his members' priorities, including a two ukraine -- to ukraine. let's hear from brenda in south carolina, democratic caller. 10 days until a potential government shutdown. good morning. caller: good morning. i have heard a lot of callers saying they agree with the shut down, but i have a family member that would be affected by the last shut down. she was tsa.

i do not understand how they feel that way and they are worried about the deficit but when donald trump gave the tax cut, they were not worried about the deficit. as far as donald trump's remarks, he was not concerned about going to prison. he thinks if they shut down they cannot investigate him. i don't know but i don't agree with the shut down. everyone does not have the same resources if they are not getting paid. it will affect so many people and their families. that is what i am worried about. host: understood. brian on facebook says, "no pay for politicians during the shutdown. being shut down means you are not working and should not be paid. that is called stealing taxpayer's money." george in illinois, independent. caller: hello. how are you today? host: morning.

caller: as far as the history of mankind, we have always blamed someone else. adam said it was that woman and the woman said it was that snake you allowed to be in the garden with us. the whole idea is we made a choice, we are making a choice, and somebody is going to have to live up to that choice. it is called missing the mark and we are doing an awful lot of it because stupid is stupid. do stupid things and expecting a good outcome is insanity. host: richard on facebook says, "if democrats do not want to make cuts, shut it down. if people are tired of overspending and sending large amounts of money overseas, bided's is not the world

president. he is our president unfortunately and needs to start acting as such." david in texas, republican. caller: good morning. i worked 43 years for the united states government in several capacities and am retired now. in those 43 years we have had shutdowns, but i never lost a dime. i don't know of any government employees who have not been paid at all. so, you know, the scare tactics on the military not getting paid -- i spent 21 years of those 43 years in the service and i never lost a paycheck. host: here is from cbs news. all active-duty military members, many federal law enforcement officers, and

employees at federally funded hospitals are considered essential. along with air traffic controllers and transportation security administration officers. essential employees, even though they continue to work, are not paid while the government is shut down. they receive back pay once funding is restored to their agency. employees in non-essential positions are furloughed until the government is funded again and do not come into work or get a paycheck. under a 2019 law they are guaranteed to receive back pay once the shutdown is over. you wanted to say something? caller: they will be sent home and not have to work. this might be kind of cold but they are going to be sent home, they are going to go on vacation, they do not have to go to work, and then when they come back they're going to get all that money back. just like anybody else. i do not know anybody who has not been paid at all. host: but they have bills that are due during that shut down. they have bills due but no money

coming in. caller: if government employees -- they are paid very well. government employees ought to have savings. i am sorry. i do not know too many government employees that start off at $5 an hour. host: we havehost: aligned this morning for federal workers, so maybe some of them will react to what you said. (202)-748-8003 is the line for federal workers. we will go to hawaii, democratic caller kulani. caller: this last guy had a lot of excuses for all the information you were giving him. it is kind of ridiculous. a couple of callers had some good points where people do not get paid. they do not get paid. they got bills. but why is so many callers saying shut it down? they must have a lot of money.

trump was in office for four years. he had $7.8 trillion added to the deficit for four years. the republicans complaining about rand paul and all the numbers he was giving, come on. thank you. host: from cbs reporting, depending on how long a shutdown lasts national parks could close, hiring of new government employees, and research at the national institute of health could stop. constituents' interactions with congressional offices could be curtailed. the white house maintains a list of links to agency's contingency plans and you can find that if you go to the white house website, and you can also find it here. services like the postal service and entitlement programs, including social security, medicare, and medicaid, are not

halted during shut down because they are funded through permanent appropriations that do not require renewal. entitlement payments keep going out but staffing levels of the agencies could be affected and cause delays in enrollment or other service interruption. kim in hempstead, federal worker. what is it like to be a federal worker? caller: hi there. to the previous caller that just commented on federal employees during a shutdown and how they are paid more and should have savings, we as federal employees -- i am speaking for myself, of course -- we live as everyone else does and most live paycheck-to-paycheck. yes, it is true if we experience a government shutdown we will eventually get paid back when

the shutdown is over. however, that does not mean we do not suffer in any way. it is very stressful for us as well. so, i just wanted to say that to the previous caller that commented in regards to that. i hope we do not experience a shutdown. host: were you a federal worker in 2019 during the shutdown for over 30 days? caller: yes. host: how did you get through those weeks? caller: well, you know, when we are furloughed, we are provided a letter from our employer to then present to our creditors explaining that we are federal employees. we are experiencing a government shutdown.

basically, they will oversee the money. for instance with my mortgage company, let's say. if i cannot make my mortgage payment in time due to the shutdown -- and when we were shut down for the 35 or 36 days -- i sent a letter to my creditor and they did grant it and they did waive, but we don't know. we don't know how long we might be shut down. hopefully it will not be too long and historically, it has not been long. i believe 2019 was the longest. host: correct. caller: yes. host: let's go back to 2019 from cbs' reporting.

the five-week shutdown cost the economy $11 billion, according to the congressional budget report. most of that would be recovered once the shutdown ended but estimated a permanent loss of about $3 billion. businesses across the country that relied on federal customers reported a slowdown in business and some had to lay off employees. government contractors struggled to feed their families and pay their bills. the shutdown stemmed from a standoff between president trump's demand for $7.5 billion to fund a wall along the border. lisa in pugh aria, illinois -- peoria, illinois, independent. caller: i have family members that work for the government. one person just started a job and and they act like everybody

has all this money. it is ridiculous. especially with the student loan issue. it is ridiculous they are ending the repayment at this time and expecting them to pay student loans. i have student loans myself. i never had a payment pause and that is another issue. that is an economic issue that needs to be taken care of. it does not cost the government anything. host: we will stick to the shutdown discussion. aaron on facebook, any person supporting a shut down should forfeit their livelihoods to those that would lose their livelihoods due to this constant football. lynn, democrat, federal worker. caller: i am a former union president and i am retired. i was appalled by that caller

that said they worked 43 years for the government and this does not affect federal workers and federal workers get paid well. as the union president of afge that represents border patrol to tsa and other federal workers, all federal workers do not get paid well. it is stressful and as a union president during that 2019 shut down, also between 2013, a lot of employees were asking me -- because i am a former social worker also -- how to get food. all of these people that believe it is easy for federal workers that are used to getting their paycheck and suddenly, you cannot get a paycheck, and they will give you back pay but it is halved because it is taxed at a

higher rate. you never get exactly what you were supposed to get. these are things people do not understand. what i can say to congress is they promised us at the unions that they were going to do a bill that the government could never shut down again. no other country in the world shots their government down. it is a stupid policy, it makes us vulnerable, and with all this going on in the world, that is the worst thing we could do. we keep on voting these fools in that believe this is a game. we need to start looking at how we vote when we go to the polls. we need to start looking at adults to put into congress versus children. host: william in pennsylvania, republican. your turn. caller: republicans can pass

bills tomorrow. it does not mean they would get signed by the senate or the president. second of all, for all these people saying trump wasted how much money, how much were you crying when you got $10,000 checks? you should send your money back in. what about all the fraud that happened? where is all that money? where are the investigations going on? they are still not going on. i say shut it down. i really don't care about ukraine. the people on maui are getting 10 times less then the people in ukraine. you tell us it is a democracy but nobody is going to be able to vote in ukraine. it does not sound look at democracy to me. host: phil in sarasota, florida, an independent and federal worker. caller: good morning.

can you hear me? host: we can. caller: i want to talk about the shutdown and our debt. we have been through this many times before and they come down to the wire and they always agree, which i predict will happen this time too. but the problem is we have such a huge debt that it is impossible for it to be paid off. what is going to occur is we are either going to have high inflation, like zimbabwe and argentina, or we are going to go bankrupt and not pay our debt. that is pretty clear. what has brought this on is the constitution tells us money has to be silver or gold. we got off the gold standard under nixon in 1971. so the money is just paper. without it being backed, we are all at-risk. host: rachel in maryland, democratic caller.

caller: good morning. so, i don't think the government should shutdown and if they do, congress should forfeit their money. why should the american people not get paid? they are not deciding to shut down the government. they go in every day. but if congress wants to not go in and not do their job that we elected them to do, they should not get paid. they should not get back pay. they should just not get paid. and that goes for the president as well. he cannot just go to delaware and sit around and do nothing. he needs to tell them to get to their offices, read those bills, pass the bills, and move forward. we should not be still supporting ukraine if we have issues here. we cannot afford to support ukraine. we cannot afford things here. inflation keeps going up. that is not fair to the american people to pay china back for

money we are not even seeing because it is going somewhere else. it is not right. host: dave in pennsylvania, retired federal worker, republican. caller: good morning. i wanted to call david in texas. i agree with everything he says. i was working for the federal government for 35 years. i am retired 20 years. i was under a shut down under bill clinton. we were off for about three or four days. i did not lose a penny. government employees do not lose any money. and the military does not lose any money. that is not true. you have various people talking and saying they lose money. they do not. if congress would do their job,

we would not need to have a shut down. it is a cat and mouse game and if they would just do what they are supposed to do, they would be no need to do this. they are just playing games. thank you. host: dave's thoughts in pennsylvania. julie in florida, republican. caller: good morning. how are you? can you hear me? host: we can. caller: i wanted to make a couple of comments briefly. the gentleman that just spoke said cat and mouse game. i could not put it better. these people are paid an enormous amount of money to do what they do, yet if we do not go to work, we do not get paid. the term limits should be put back in place and one of the things that really bothers me right now that nobody is paying attention to is what is happening with the w.h.o.

biden is going to give away america's sovereignty, meaning w.h.o. can do mandatory vaccines. host: we front page of the washington times this morning -- the attorney general, merrick garland, was on capitol hill yesterday and he testified for hours before the house judiciary committee and the headline in the washington times was that -- if you missed any of that hearing, you can find it on our website, c-span.org. then there is the front page of the new york times this morning with the headline about billions to give rural america fast internet may fall short. that is the topic of a hearing on capitol hill this morning at

9:00 a.m. eastern time. rural broadband funding. we have coverage on c-span3, our free mobile video app c-span our on our website, c-span.org3+ . we will take a short break and when we come back, we will hear from two lawmakers on both sides of the isle about next week government funding deadline, aid to ukraine and other congressional news of the day. earl blumenauer and later, republican congressman matt rosendale, a member of the house freedom caucus we will talk to both of them coming up on the "washington journal." >> eric schmidt is the associate professor of rhetoric at york college in pennsylvania. he is also the cofounder and

coeditor of pre-black thought. in a newsweek article, he wrote we hear endlessly about systematic racism, white supremacy on the black and white income gap and police brutality. so powerful and ideology has this narrative become that those of us who pose a counter narrative like anti-woke writers frequently find our words being misconstrued in an effort to stanch their impact. >> book notes plus is available on the c-span now free mobile app for wherever you get your podcasts. >> monday, watch c-span's new series in partnership with the library of congress, books that shaped america. we will feature the federalist come a come violation of essays

written in 1880 seven and 1788 by alexander hamilton, james madison and john jay, urging for the ratification of an newly ratified u.s. constitution. our guests will join us to discuss why those essays are considered one of the most important references for interpreting and understanding the original intent of the constitution. watch books that shaped america featuring the federalist come on, live at 98 -- 9:00 p.m. eastern. also, be sure to skim the cure code to listen to our companion podcast you can learn more about the authors featured. >> "washington journal" continues. host: congressman earl blumenauer is with us this morning, a democrat of oregon and sits on the budget on ways

and means committees. let's begin with the possibility of a government shutdown 10 days away from that deadline. do you think it's imminent? guest: sadly, i think that's the case. i've been through this before. it's highly predictable but you have a small group of people who have a stranglehold on the republican leadership in the house and leaving kevin mccarthy no choice but to try to placate them. but it doesn't work. in the final analysis, we know how it will end. congress actually agreed on a spending proposal in the spring, 100 49 republicans voted for it, establishing the spending levels. the senate's budgeting based on that and passing legislation and we will end up largely in that space after we inflict a lot of

pain and confusion. unnecessarily host: is it because there is not enough time at this point, 10 days away? guest: you are running out of time and you have a deadline and you have the jewish holidays, it takes time to be able to assemble serious legislation. it has pushed up against a real deadline but in a sense it's artificial. we knew where we were in the spring. we know what the senate is doing and they are passing the legislation. if the people on the house appropriations committee were actually free to do their job, they would largely end up -- there are a number of them in the governing wing of the republican party that they are being held hostage as well by some of the most extreme elements in the republican caucus.

ultimately, they will fail in an effort to inflict draconian cuts on the american people. host: explain for those watching poor not clear, why are we even talking about these so-called continuing resolutions? guest: the budget process is designed to be able, over the course of the year to be able to advance the appropriations bills. we only passed one in the house, even though we are nine months into the fiscal year. in order to keep the government functioning, we pass a continuing resolution which approves spending at the previous level. it's really not a good solution. it doesn't deal with changes that take place but it's a stopgap measure to keep the wheels moving.

congress routinely defaults to a continuing resolution because you cannot afford to grind everything to a halt as much as a few people would like to. host: what are you hearing from your republican colleagues about their interparty fighting? guest: they are just perplexed and frustrated. this morning, i talked to republican friends, even people who actually have voted to keep this going are not happy with it. it's a situation that is extraordinarily frustrating. some people have been through this before. they went through it in 2013 and 2018. they are frustrated but they think at this point that it's out of their control with the small group of extremists for

whom it's politically beneficial for them. they raise lots of money by being the people who are in the spotlight, but it's not how to do their job. it's not how government actually is able to meet people's problems. this is going to continue to create issues that we will be struggling with for weeks to try and come out of this. host: as we told our viewers, speaker kevin mccarthy has proposed not one but two proposals to his conservative colleagues on a continuing resolution, something that would get just republican votes presumably and that would be sent to the senate. guest: but this is just a short, temporary stopgap so we are right back at it in a month or two months. people talk about groundhog day. all of this angst and debate and

attention for a short-term solution and we are right back where we were when they are unable to resolve these fundamental differences. host: if the speaker cannot get enough conservatives to vote for what they would want as a party and he has to bring a clean continuing resolution to the floor, what does it mean by clean and when democrats vote for that? guest: yes, one that is not loaded up with a lot of extraneous, cultural battles that republicans are weaving into the appropriation process. these are things that would never pass on a standalone basis through the house and the senate and be signed by the president. the thought is if they can force it into a continuing resolution, they can get some of these extreme proposals and acted. -- and acted.

enacted. the senate will not go along with it in the present won't sign it so it's delayed until the day of reckoning. host: republicans and conservatives and the freedom caucus have set of kevin mccarthy would make that move and put a clean cr on the floor and get help from democrats to pass it that his job would be in jeopardy. would you support a motion to vacate the chair if republicans brought that to the floor? would you support ousting kevin mccarthy from the speakership? guest: i don't think that's constructive. i am bitterly disappointed in how the speaker has conducted himself. he has made concession after concession to a handful of the most extreme members of his conference. but that's a deal he made to be able to be elected speaker. if he would be willing to work on a bipartisan basis, leader jeffries and the democrats would

be there for things that matter to the american people. we've done it before. we did it this year. i am disappointed in the performance of the speaker. it's not going to distinguish him in history, being weak and trying to accommodate the most extreme members. if he were to sit down and visit with democratic leadership to deal with the responsible members of the republican caucus, this could be ironed out in a matter of minutes. and there would be -- and there would be a majority in the house of representatives, bipartisan majority that would support reasonable alternatives. everybody wouldn't get what they wanted but we would have something that would be reasonable and palatable to the american public and it would work -- and it would work. it's something that can be done.

host: there are news reports that that is underway, that the problem solver caucus is working on a way forward to keep the government running. let's get to our calls, maryland, democratic caller. caller: yes, mr. blumenauer, we know how this ins. - ends. we do this every year. guest: mercifully, not every year. caller: at the end of every year, right around december in the middle of the night, a bill gets passed and it gets passed, last year was the big omnibus and i understand we will try to appropriate this year but that will not happen. in the middle of the night, american people are asleep another trip $10 trillion will come rolling through the house. and they will pass it and we will not worry about deficits or anything else.

i have an exercise we can work on as a group that would be the legislative branch, all 535 if you shut down the government. that would be to find the largest plan you have in the democrats packed the parachutes for the republicans and the republicans packed the parachutes for the democrats and they all jump out of a plane. this is how to start over again. maybe at that point in time, we could maybe kind of act like grown-ups. that would be wonderful but i don't see that happening. host: congressman? guest: what do i say to that? host: joe in missouri, republican. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: a major part of this fight is money for ukraine.

i don't want to give them a penny, ever. how come the united nations is not trying to stop this war? it's like a let it go and i think the united nations should be stopping or trying to stop the war. not a penny for ukraine, it's not our fight and they will not invade poland. they can't even be the ukrainians. they are not going any further. it's all over and i agree with rand paul, not another penny for ukraine, thank you. guest: i think frankly your caller is wrong. he is wrong in terms of the united nations. russia and china have veto power in the united nations. russia will not allow the united nations to take action against their brutal aggression. would that would be the case. in the korean war, we lucked out and it was the russians boycotting it but that's not

something we can do today. the notion that russia would stop and not interfere with anybody else i think is a slender [indiscernible] the europeans are deeply concerned about this. formerly neutral countries have moved to be a part of this effort. germany which has been decidedly reluctant to militarize understands that this is a real threat. i respectfully disagree with your caller. i think the president, mitch mcconnell, there is responsible republican and democratic leaders who understand what the stakes are in the great people of ukraine are fighting against a brutal, oppressive russian invasion. we are lucky that they are the ones standing up and shedding their blood.

the least we can do is to try and help them in this historic battle. allowing russia to crush ukraine is simply the wrong thing to do. host: let's hear from ian in georgia, independent. go ahead. caller: yes, height. basically congress on the president are all public servants. i believe that until they figure out the budget, they should forfeit their pay toward the benefit and keep everybody else running and keep the government going in their money goes toward the deficit until they figure it out. host: congressman? guest: again, what can i say? this is something where handful of people are holding the american economy hostage.

they are inflicting there will on the republicans and the democrats. nobody is in this for the money, nobody in congress has had a pay raise for 10 years, nobody leaves congress for a lower paid job. i think the incentive here is for people to do their job properly and be able to work cooperatively and not be held hostage by a small group of extreme members of the republican party. host: oregon, republican, hi there. caller: hi. i would like to say i agree with what the last guy just said. i actually agree with the parachutes and the plane. host: all right, john in lincoln, nebraska, democratic caller. caller: thank you for taking my call. i will try to keep this short.

i don't really think the government will shut down. i don't really believe you. i want to know why you are so sure. i am also hearing you say that a handful of people responsible for this -- i want to know who is giving them money, is it big pharma, big tobacco, big oil? name these people and let me know what's going on in my country. i really don't think we are shutting down. let me know when there will be a major shut down for a year or two, not just a couple of days. let me really know what's going on. host: talk about how this -- who would be impacted and the fallout of a shut down. guest: there is already an impact because the federal agencies have to plan for the shut down in terms of who will be enabled to work.

certain essential people will remain but others will be furloughed. there is limitations in terms of how the fund flows take place and there will be things from food inspections, border patrol, the faa, all of these areas where social security checks will be compromised on a sustained basis. these are the normal things that people expect government to accomplish. when you disrupt the ability of the people who run government to be able to go to work every day and do their jobs, and there will be hundreds of thousands of federal employees who will not get a paycheck, some for whom this is an extreme hardship, ultimately, congress, every time

has made sure that people are made whole. every previous shut down, we have gone ahead and paid people what they would have earned. in a sense, we will send people home and they will not have a paycheck for a while. ultimately, because it's not fair to punish hundreds of thousands of federal employees because of a handful of folks who have an ideological battle over federal spending, they will be made whole. it will be late. it's like a paid vacation. federal employees don't want to be forced in the situation. there are situations i've had in the past where for example, prisoner transport, there was somebody in the middle of transporting a dangerous person between prisons when the shutdown occurred.

there was a real problem in terms of how they pay for hotels, how do they eat? these are things were ultimately , they were not compensated because they got caught in the crossfire of this stuff. when you are dealing with a multitrillion dollar economy, you are dealing with hundreds of billions of dollars, hundreds of thousands of employees and essential services that the american people count on. just the recent news about near misses with air traffic control problems -- we are paying a price for the firing of all of the air traffic controllers and we been playing catch-up for decades, trying to train people and get them in, underfunding of the faa air traffic control, is

showing in terms of deteriorating service. these things have consequences. host: timothy in north carolina, a republican. caller: yes, i'm trying to figure out how we can keep sending so much money do ukraine and i know they need our support but we need superior -- support in our government, too. the democrats are running our country straight into the ground. i would like to know what's going on. host: congressman? guest: good. i suggest people listen to the hearings, read the news, it's pretty transparent in terms of the activities that are going on. it's not necessarily the best sort of information dealing with social media and extreme programming on things like fox

news where there is sort of an ongoing drumbeat of a narrow slice of ideology -- of ideologically driven folks but people can have access to what's going on in congress, what's going on in terms of the administration. there is pretty good coverage about what's happening with the economy, what has happened in terms of taxation and the budget. we had a budget hearing yesterday that was pretty instructive as we tried to deal with things that would make a difference. i am trying to have a reform of the crop insurance program that doesn't work for most farmers and ranchers. we are spending billions of dollars to foreign insurance agents. we pay more to insurance agents and insurance companies than we do to farmers.

i would think this is something we could work on together through reform. host: on the a2 ukraine, the ukrainian leader will be on capitol hill today. what will you hear from him? how will this work and where will he be going? guest: he is having a whirlwind visit that i think the message will be clear. he will thank congress and the administration and the american people for their support that's been so important. he's going to make the case for continuing that, give them more weapons to be able to fight back against the russians. it's been a slow process of expanding the range of tools that are available to ukrainians. it was a struggle to get the tanks, for instance. there is concern about being able to provide adequate fighter

jets and training of people to operate the equipment. they want to replace the munitions that are running out. his message i think will be one the thanks the american public but is going to be a plea to help them defend themselves against this brutal russian aggression and the treatment of ukrainian civilians. host: tampa, florida, independent. go ahead. caller: mr. blumenauer, i like that bowtie, where did you get that? guest: this particular -- i have a series of sources over the years where i've acquired several hundred bowties. i don't advertise individual companies, that's not ethical as far as congress is concerned but

there is a wide range of very creative providers including people in portland, oregon who make these ties by hand. caller: ok, i want to get to my point and thank you for that knowledge. when i look at the republican party, it seems they are against everything but not something for the folks. i look at joe biden's record with prescription drugs and etc. and what he's trying to do for the american people and i don't get it, they are just stagnated. they are against everything. they went for the big trump tax cut for the billionaires and he brags about it. what about us? what about the low income people, the middle class? what about us?

and you have these yahoos out there in the country when he's trying to put a table out there and put construction out there where they live and give them jobs, joe biden, given them jobs out there with infrastructure. what about that? host: let's get a response. guest: your caller is correct. the biden administration has greeted more jobs than any administration in history. the trump administration lost jobs in four years. this has been a remarkable economic achievement. i've been working for years on infrastructure and the energy provisions we passed, the ira and the infrastructure bills are already starting to make a difference on the ground to rebuild a new america. it's part of why the jobs numbers are high and it's also

badly needed investment in rural and small-town america. there is a debate about whether we have enough money invested in broadband but the point is, we are providing money for broadband service which people depend on, for telehealth, remote learning, being able to conduct business. these investments in terms of energy, in terms of broadband come in terms of health care make a difference to the american people. the biden administration is extremely strong and the numbers don't lie. more jobs gained than any other administration and it's only been a little over two years. trump had a net loss of jobs in four years. host: you say the numbers don't lie yet according to the latest yahoo! news survey, president biden and former president trump

would now tie at 44% among registered voters if the election was held today, why is that? guest: the 2024 election is not being held today. there's a strong record that needs to get out. donald trump is a master showman. he has some people who believe in him and he famously said he could shoot people on fifth avenue in lot -- and not lose votes. he has actually behaved that way. joe biden is very strong record and in the final analysis, people will make a choice. it drives me crazy that these elections never end and it's all sort of emotion and exaggeration. as we cut through what the actual performances are in terms of job creation, in terms of opportunities for americans to

rebuild and renew their communities, to deal with the disastrous consequences of what has happened with the environmental catastrophe of climate change, fires, floods, earthquakes, these are things that will make a big difference in terms of government being there when they are needed. joe biden and his administration has evidenced -- as evidence would happen in hawaii and what happened in vermont. they are working to provide this necessary assistance and in the final analysis, i think the american people will make a fair judgment. host: congressman earl blumenauer, democrat from oregon, thanks for talking to our viewers this morning. guest: mpleasure. host: we will take a short bracken then we will continue our conversation about the looming government shutdown and we will talk with republican congressman matt rosendale of

montana, a top member of the house freedom caucus. stay with us. ♪ >> american history tv saturdays on c-span2, exploring the people and events that tell the american story. at 9 p.m. eastern, george washington university lecturer talks about american poverty policy and how the johnson administration and great society program sought to provide economic security to the poorest americans. at 930 p.m. eastern on the presidency, a look at how presidents are pretrade in elm, the white house historical association the library of congress host the discussion which included movies like kisses for my president in 1954, the man, in 1972, 1998 deep impact and lincoln in 2012. exploring the american story, watch american history tv saturdays on c-span2 and find a full schedule on your program

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continues. host: from capitol hill this morning, matt rosendale, republican from montana, let's begin with the latest offering from speaker kevin mccarthy behind closed doors he told you and your colleagues yesterday that a continuing resolution stopgap bill to keep the government funded that he would put on the floor would include more cuts and border security provisions. it says current government fuing levels at $1.47 trillion and gives border security -- legislation at one point 5 million and would address the u.s. debt. would you vote for this? guest: no, i won't be voting for this. this is nothing more than the same crap sandwich. there is no one in that room that believes it would come back from the senate with the same terms and conditions.

i continue to ask everyone to please let us focus our energy and efforts on passing the 12 appropriation bills and i'm starting to hear they will bring the department of defense backup today and the reason is, it's one of the only bills that's adding additional spending instead of trying to reduce spending. if they are able to pass that, basically, they hand the senate another vehicle they can use to create a minibus and put additional spending there and send it back to the house and there -- and dare anyone to vote against it because it supports our military. this is nothing more than politics as usual and i won't be supporting it. the people of montana did not send me up here to support that. let's put it in simple terms, we will collect about $5 trillion worth of revenue. they are proposing very nearly

$7 trillion in spending. that is a $2 trillion per year loss. out of that $5 trillion, the first thing that comes off the top is very nearly $1 trillion that's going to service the debt and $33 trillion the united states government is proposing now, the national debt is $33 trillion so we are now facing very close to a $3 billion per year deficit. project that out and we are not talking about 20 or 30 years. it's five years and we will be facing a $50 trillion national debt which will consume about 50% of all the revenue that we collect in any given year. we cannot sustain that and the american public cannot sustain that. it will cause a serious collapse of our economy and i am willing

to tell everyone the truth now and i am willing to take the vote right now to start turning that back or else it's going to be a major problem. host: there is only 10 days left before government shut down to pass the appropriations bills. will the government shut down until you pass all 12 appropriations bills? that would take weeks. guest: when the government shuts down, you only have about 15% of it that actually shuts down. all of that compensation is deferred. everyone will be compensated for the time that the government is not officially open, as they call it. we face a much larger crisis if we do not address this deficit spending. we've been talking about this for many years but now the curve has gotten so steep that it absolutely needs to be addressed

now. we are talking a five-year timeframe and it will consume 50% of the revenue we collect in any given year. if we focus the attention right now on the energy and effort being put forward to try and pass a continuing resolution, which is not realistic, if we took those efforts and put it toward passing the appropriations bills and try to make any kind of reduction whatsoever to spending, you would have everyone hold hands and work together to accomplish that. host: i want your reaction to two of your colleagues. chip roy a republican of texas who negotiated with moderate republicans on this latest continuing resolution proposal. it's followed by the republican of florida talking about if the speaker were to move forward on

a so-called clean cr and get the help of democrats, what that would mean for his speakership. let's show that and have you react to both. [video clip] >> with all due respect, let my colleagues explain this. i think it's indefensible. now we have to figure out how to move the ball forward but we have agreements in good faith. >> the speakers job would be imperiled? >> as he relies on democrats on the continuing resolution, i would call the capitol moving truck to his office soon because my expectation would be that he would be ousted quite promptly. host: congressman rosendale? guest: i think chip roy is working and it -- in good faith. he is there on the front line in texas and has seen for several years now the devastation that

illegal immigration is causing to our country whether it's in the form of humanity for the loss of lives because of the fentanyl streaming across the country that affects every single state across the nation. we lost 100,000 people to that and i think he's negotiating in good date but unfortunately, there are too many others that won't be. none of the provisions within the continuing resolution will be implemented. the senate wants to strip that out and they will send back what they call a clean cr with none of those provisions in there. they will extend nancy pelosi's funding and joe biden's policies which is what it does. when the time comes that we see that speaker mccarthy starts utilizing democratic votes in order to pass an agenda, his speakership will be in jeopardy. host: do you think it will be over? guest: i'm responsible for and only can cast one vote.

that's it and what everybody else does, i don't know but i can tell you that on the debt ceiling package we had 169 democrats supporting a debt ceiling package that speaker mccarthy negotiate with president biden and only 145 republican so you had more democrats supporting it than republicans. it showed where he was willing to go to form his coalition. unfortunately, we have seen many times over that it's much easier to get votes from -- to buy votes from democrats than earn them from republicans? . host: democratic call next. caller: i heard you mention that you're responsible for something. i have to tell you, i don't think anybody is responsible when they have a major catastrophe going on and they walk away from it to take a vacation. i've got to ask you, why are you guys groping when obama was in

office, you guys said you couldn't trust him in a second term but you couldn't come up with numbers but you just couldn't trust him. now are hearing from the mainstream media that people just aren't feeling the economy and the action of my government, trying to make the economy better. they say they are not feeling about the numbers proved wrong. i wish you guys would stop talking about feelings and trusting and so forth and just talk about numbers and reality. host: congressman, go ahead. guest: i appreciate that and that's what i've been saying is that it's simple numbers. we have $33 trillion in national date, that's the reality. we will collect roughly $5 trillion in revenue this year. what the president and too many of the members of congress are proposing is to spend nearly $7 trillion.

you take $1 trillion off of the five to service the interest on the loans we currently have, all of the national debt we currently have a now we will add $3 trillion to the national debt. if you project that out five years, that's not that far into the future and we will require 50% of the annual revenue to service the national debt, the interest from the national debt. that will only lead 50% for social security, medicare/medicaid and the military and everything else. there is going to be a collapse. the reckoning is coming and i would prefer to deal with it right now today. it still really bad but it's just a little teeny bit easier now. i'm trying to be honest with the american people about those numbers. host: michigan, tom is a republican. caller: good morning and thank you.

i agree with what you are saying. the thing i struggle with is what's the end number? where these numbers come from and why can't democrats be realistic about spending? we all live within a budget. i'm on social security which is part of my income. what is the number? it seems like they spend and there is no end to what they will do. i don't understand that. it goes against logical thinking. can't we just take all of our budgets and cut them by a certain percentage to say everybody will take a hit but not wiped out certain budgets but what is the percentage needed to get us back to zero? thanks for taking my call. guest: i appreciate that and this is bipartisan spending.

this isn't just democrats. i'm not one of these people that will lay this on the shoulders of just the democrats and the democratic members of congress or the voters. this is a bipartisan problem. we need to work together to reduce that spending. the number is it depends, it depends on which one of the 12 appropriations bills you want to start reducing the spending on. i am willing to make those cuts across the board. unfortunately, they will bring an appropriation bill for the department of defense and they will increase the spending on that. the leadership feel they can intimidate so many of the members of congress that force them to vote for this bill because no one would dare ever vote against the department of defense of the spending measure. actually increasing it by about $26 billion more than what biden

even requested. that's the republican majority that's requesting that. i won't be voting for that either. host: do you think it will pass today? guest: i'm not certain. what i'm responsible for is my vote. everyone has to go home and look their constituents in the eye and tell them what they are doing. i try to be very honest and upfront with all of my actions. then i also try to tell my constituents why it's being done this way. this department of defense bill is not just about making sure we have our military funds. this is being done in order to send a vehicle over to the united states senate so they can utilize it for another bill to attach their spending on. it will come back to the house of representatives. i hope everyone marks this down and saves this segment. this will come back to the house of representatives with other provisions attached to it if in

fact it does pass today. that's what this is all about. host: you believe that former president trump bears some of the responsibility for this so-called reckoning as you call it with the nation's deficit? guest: we all do, anyone who allows the spending to continue to increase, we are all responsible for that. there is in blame for everybody. it's difficult to cut spending. i was insurance commissioner in the state of montana and when i was responsible for my own agency, i reduce spending by 23%. i didn't reduce the increase by 23%, i reduced the hard spending by 23%. what you have to do is go through and find out places where you have deficiencies in unnecessary spending and make the difficult decisions about reducing it. we have to do that in our own business and we have to do that as members of congress area everyone needs to participate in

that. i'm willing to do so and i would stay here through august to work on that process. like all of my colleagues, i want them to do the same. we cannot sustain this. this is not a 20 or 30 year horizon, this is five years that will have economic disaster painted all over it. host: denton, marilyn, democratic caller. caller: i just wanted to point out to america that there is a website called usa fact. on that it says we are spending 6.5 trillion. yes, i agree with you, we need to cut spending. here is part of it -- social security is a huge chunk. that's a social program we all put into. a big chunk is defense, $1 trillion.

you can go down there and debate and that's what we put you down there to do. i am a teacher, my whole paycheck is taxed at 6%. why don't you text ceos making 20 million or athletes making millions at 6%? you will incur a lot of revenue. just lift the tax on us. guest: you can raise the tax rates on those folks that are making more income but it is not going to have the impact on the total balance of the budget, if you will of reducing the spending. social security is a program that everyone has paid into an medicare is another program that folks have paid into it and that's why i'm trying to save

these measures now. if we don't take these measures right now, in five years, when the interest on the debt is consuming 50% of the revenue, there's going to be major amendments that will need to be made to the social safety net that the country provides now and people have paid into. these are the kind of things i'm trying to keep from happening. that's what it's all about. host: new hampshire, independent. caller: hi, representative, it's a pleasure to talk to you today. i'm a former marine and i saw that you are on the committee. it sounds like you are talking sense but i want to say that first of all, social security is for everybody.

it would be nice for somebody to come out and say that this is not socialism. this is taking care of people like the veterans. the second point is, the hyperbole that is being used in our everyday language is a problem. i would like for you to speak about that. guest: the hyperbole and the rhetoric that gets used on a daily basis is wrong. this is about messaging. that's why i've got a problem with trying to pass a continuing resolution with all of these provisions attached that people realistically know will never get an acted. they truly don't and that's about messaging. passing the department of defense appropriations bill in trying to get that done is about messaging, about creating a vehicle so the senate can use it to spend even more money.

i tried to stick with the facts, with the data and go where that data points me. it's uncomfortable for a lot of people to come out and have those frank discussions but these are realities. just sweeping them underneath the rug or trying to ignore them so that you have a comfortable position when you are dealing with the media is not my way. i want to be very honest with folks in that way and with all the people across the state of montana. they know when they call me up, i will tell them what they need to know, not with a want to hear. that is the only way i know how to address this. host: you are running for senate. guest: no, that announcement has not been made. you really tried to sneak that in, didn't you? host: there are reports you are considering that, is that true? guest: i would say the people

across montana including the speaker of the montana house and the president of the montana senate, 37 legislators and a lot of voters have asked me publicly to consider it. my wife and my family and i are going over those interesting options. we must absolutely have someone in the united states senate to replace our senator. i get along with john but his votes are terrible. i have told john that to his face. i'm not saying something on television that he and i have not discussed. i think he's going to be replaced in 2024 and we want to make sure that the strongest republican candidate that has the support of the people and zipped of taking that position. we are considering it. host: what would you tell federal workers in your state

about why you did not go forward with a continuing resolution? guest: i am glad to sit down and talk to the military members on the federal workers across the state of montana or the nation. i'm trying to do what is best right now to keep us from having a much larger problem, not in 2030 years but in five years time where we would have maximum changes that need to take place to federal spending in order to make sure we can still pay the bills. we have a problem in january of this year. we are going to pass 12 appropriations bills. we have known for months and years this would happen. and yet everyone has waited again by using the same tired old gimmicks to try and force us into passing something that will increase spending and cause a larger burden on the american

people. i'm just not going to do it. i will be truthful and say $7 trillion worth of spending, $5 trillion worth of revenue, we need to get closer. that's too big of a bridge and there were 12 appropriations bills we can utilize as the tools to get us through that. host: hudson, florida, republican. caller: good morning and i hope you do run for senate. you will be a good candidate. i want to go one step further with the government shutdown. let it shut down, nobody is losing anything. they will be paid in arrears. do what's right to stop government and fix it. do as necessary. guest: thank you so much. i have a lot of voters across the state of montana that say the same thing because they recognize that not that much is going to change in their lives.

as you say, we have some federal employees and they will have some deferred payments that end up getting pushed out. the way everyone's budget is now, no budget is good. inflation is it everyone across the country. you go to the grocery store and you walk out with one bag of groceries for the same cost you use to three bags of groceries out and now we see president biden shutting down our domestic energy production even further. we have already lost about 2 million barrels per day of domestic energy production. with four dollar per gallon gasoline and four dollars 50 cents per gallon for diesel fuel, it's making life even more difficult for everyone. we know that energy is one of the largest driving elements of inflation. they are working against the american people so we are trying to rein that in. host: bowie, maryland, democratic caller.

caller: good morning, c-span and good morning america. you said increasing tax revenue would not make a dent in what we are spending but i make $3000 a month and i spent $5,000 per month and i get a second or third job to increase my revenue to pay for my expenses. tax cuts decreased revenue and increase the debt. those tax cuts for the corporations on the rich should be rescinded. host: let's take that point. guest: what we saw with the tax cuts and jobs act, everyone said it would add to the deficit and add to the national debt but in reality, in 2019, we were collecting about $4 trillion per year in revenue. the argument that by reducing the tax rate, we were going to reduce the revenue is completely

false. it's been proven time and again. we went from $3.9 trillion in collections and revenue to about $5 trillion. we know that reducing the tax rate actually stimulates the activity in the economy and will generate more revenue. if you have to raise the tax rate in order to cover 50% more revenue in order to carry the debt, the interest on the debt, it will absolutely set this economy down. you cannot increase the tax rate enough to compensate for that. it's been proven time and time again. host: if speaker mccarthy were to lose his leadership post over the debate over spending, who, in your mind, could replace him that would get enough votes from the republican conference? guest: again, i don't know who is going to vote where. i am responsible for one vote.

i think there are many highly qualified leaders in this body. that's what we need right now is leaders. we do need not -- we do not meet someone is waiting for a consensus to be formed and then run around in front of that group and try to lead the parade. we need leaders, brave leaders, courageous leaders that will stand up and be positive with the american people and look at the facts and say we've got a problem. it's a massive problem and here are the facts. and to lay it out and have the american people follow that, to rally members of congress to follow that. this is why people were impressed with ronald reagan. if you like or don't like his policies, he is able to look into the camera to craft an agenda and then speak to everyone truthfully about it and get them to follow that. that's what we need right now, bold leaders and i don't think

kevin mccarthy is a bold leader. host: if a motion to vacate is put to the chair, do you and your colleagues need to have a consensus candidate? who is up for you? guest: there is a lot of highly qualified individuals and what happens is there is so many people intimidated while the king holds the sword that they are reluctant to raise their hand up because they understand the pressures that would be put upon them by the outside media and quite frankly, some of the members of congress just want to keep things going the same way they are now. we cannot continue doing the same thing that we have done for the last few decades. we are on a crash course. not only our own financial picture but we have to also consider what's going on outside of our borders. when you have 60 nations getting

together and having conversations about refusing to use the u.s. dollar as the reserve currency, that's problematic. we've already seen russia and china getting together to not use the u.s. dollar as a reserve currency. that as to the problem and we are giving them fuel to do so. host: sorry to interrupt you but the house is about to gavel in and they are coming in early this morning. thank you for your time. guest: thank you for having me on. host: the house as we said is about to gavel in for their legislative session, gavel-to-gavel coverage on c-span. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023] the speaker: the house will be in order.