featured. >> house is scheduled to gavel back in at 430 to block a biden administration education policy and expand current funding expires. and members will start debate some 440 amendments to the defense, homeland security, agriculture and state foreign operations are covered under the rule being considered today. in the meantime, senate leaders are considering a short-term resolution to avert a shutdown that contains little or no money for ukraine. it isn't clear whether kevin mccarthy would bring it to the house floor. live coverage of the house here on c-span and the senate on c-span 2. >> since 1979 in partnership

with the cable industry, c-span has completed coverage from the house and senate floors to congressional hearings, and committee meetings. c-span gives you a front-row seat to how issues are debate, with no commentary and no interruptions and unfiltered. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. host: joining us nowx stier. good morning. remind people a little bit about your organization, the things you do, the point of view you take and how you are funded. guest: the partnership for public service is a nonpartisan nonprofit organization. we are dedicated to a better

government and stronger democracy. we believe that a effective government is important to our safety and well-being as a nation and it is a critical element of our democracy. we support all sorts of programs to make sure a more effective government, making sure it is well led and trying to make sure the government is trusted as well as trustworthy. nonprofit world is a challenge. we have a double bottom line and we need the resources to make it happen. we get our money from philanthropies, individuals, companies. and we do work for the government where they pay us. much of our leadership is we get support from government. host: you talked about effective government and trusted government, how do you think the public at large looks at those lenses, especially with the idea

of a shutdown might happen? guest: it is terrible. we have data that shows that the american people expect that their government is going to be working for them and a shutdown underlines their trust and those who are leaving the government and the government's ability to deliver on the promise that it owes the american people. we are in very partisan times. there are differences about which direction our country should go. we all need to live together and a government that works well. shutting the government down is one of the worst things you can do for our country. host: we use the term shutdown, but what does that mean particularly the difference

between a partial shutdown and a full shutdown and what might occur in this case? guest: it is rather complicated. when we talk about government shutdown, the reality is that most of the government services will continue. the administration will be doing everything it can to try to prevent americans from being harmed. if you look at the situation, over two thirds of the budget is mandatory, things like social security and medicare. the failure to pass in annual appropriation bill does not interfere with the provision of. those services from government. even the government funding in annual appropriation, there is an exception that permits and requires government agencies to continue helping where there is a threat.

those federal employees that are providing those services will be required to work and not be paid during the shutdown. there is no other group of workers in our country that i am aware of that can be required to work and not get a paycheck while they are working. they will be having to do that. that is terrible for their morality, future recruitment and all other kinds of things will be interfered with, including issues around the future workforce. future heir traffic controllers or benefits like those that go to women and children. small business loans. lots of other services will be interfered with. the bulk of government services will continue. the american people will not see -- go out and smoke which would

in fact happen if all government services ended. host: our guest is here until 830 time. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. most people when they hear federal employees they think of the white house. talk about the scope. if you ask the american people what do they think about the federal government, do they trusted, the numbers are low. guest: 80 plus percent of the federal civilians in the d.c.

area. they are doing all kinds of things to serve the public. i talked about some of them earlier. they are not bickering. they are spending their time getting stuff done by the behalf of the american people. if you have americans see more of that, their views changed on whether they trust government and what they think about the government. we do not have other critical stakeholders like hollywood and the media but were offering more insight to the public about their civil service workforce. 80% outside of d.c. close to 40% are veterans. in the shutdown context, 2 million civil servants he will either be furloughed or required to work without pay.

you also have uniformed service folk who will be in a similar situation, although pre-much all of them will be required to continue to work -- pretty much all of them will be required to continue work without pay. almost 40% of our country could not or would likely have to borrow money. the military is situation, forcing them to work without payment is terrible. it will result in harm to them, harm to the future of our government and the services we see as a country. it will cost us more to shut the government down then to keep it open. not a smart choice. one that we should do everything possible to prevent. host: 42% said that the federal government has a positive impact upon the country.

70% says the government is wasteful, too bureaucratic and then corrupt. can you elaborate? guest: this is troubling. to have a healthy democracy you need a rule of law. you need accountability and a defective government that includes the trust of the american people -- effective government that includes the trust of the american people. the news of the day reinforces that narrative. the american people should actually see the people who are really helping them. that is the civil servants who are spread out across the entire country and frankly the entire world. when you probe views about specific government functions, the numbers are way higher. even the irs, which i think

deserves more credit. it has a better reputation than the federal government at large. part of the issue is breaking down what you are actually seeing from the government introducing the public to the real people who are helping them. that attitude changes substantially, but that is not happening right now. the narrative we are here right now is about who is going to win rather than how the american people are going to get help fast. the answer to that question is simple, which is keep the government open. have your disputes about policy direction in the right way but do not buy the house down to make your point. -- burn the house out to make your point. host: how have passed government shutdowns impacted trust and who suffered mostly? guest: certainly trust in

government goes down as well. the morale of the federal workforce declines. the interest of people in public service in the government goes down. it costs the american taxpayer more money to shut the government down to keep it open -- then keep it open. in terms of the political calculus, the first thing i would note is it is not a good way of looking at this. at the end of the day our leaders are committed to the public good. how do we help the american public the most not to is going to win the battle. the truth is, everybody loses. the only winners are enemies. (202) 748-8000, democrats.

(202) 748-8001, republicans. (202) 748-8002, if you are a federal worker give us a call. you talked about those public servants. just to show our viewers the research that you have done. 57 percent say that the most federal employees are competent. 50 3% saying they are doing public service appeared to 50 two percent saying they are hard workers. they are getting positive scores. only when people are thinking when they are corrupt, only 30%. guest: i think there's a dichotomy between the view of the federal government, which gets confused with the bickering politicians in washington. the people who are really doing the work of government day in and day out in communities across the country. that dichotomy is really important when you focus the

questions on the people in government. you talk about them want to are serving the public and all kinds of ways. if you talk to americans about their experience of government services it is more positively than the government itself. it is not to suggest that we do not have ways to improve the way our government performs. we really need to focus on the bright spots in order to get better service from our government. this is important work. we do not see lots of questions about the health of the institution and government. we have political horse races draw all of the attention.

at the end of the day, what is meant to matter the most is the services that they receive in the ability of whoever is in charge to managed the future. host: republican line. you are on with max stier with the art for public service. go ahead. caller: i am wondering if you can talk about some of the positives of shutting the government down even though there might be far and few between. there is provisions in there to shutdown the border, or at least slow it down. drug dealers instead of going through. killing hundreds and thousands of americans appeared shutting down the border would in that. i think that would be a positive thing.

the people who are coming from the border are largely criminals, illegal. there is 12 million people waiting to come to this country legally. i do not hear anybody talking about them. wouldn't that be positive and stabilize if they get what they want a biased the government by shutting the government down. these people coming from the border are going to go to the welfare office, they are going to get food stamps. they are going to drain our economy. host: using those -- a shutdown to capitalize on emphasizing those topics. guest: i think the caller has a important perspective.

there are a lot of legitimate differences about how we should be pursuing different issues like immigration or ukraine, whatever it might be. my proposition would be a, those disputes are the regular order dispute not shutting the government down is a little bit like, i'm trying to think of the right metaphor. it is a little bit light, you have differences of opinion about how you want to organize. you compromise, negotiate. you go to the polls and see who wins the election. you can decide then how you want to organize the household. things like shutting the government down are hurtful to everybody. i do not think those are appropriate choices for demonstrating differences in

policies. the people who will get hurt are all of us, the american people. it will cost all of us that, a lot more, billions of dollars more to shut the government down and keep it open. it will undercut the ability of our government to deal with future problems. it will hurt people in the here and now. for the political leadership to figure this out without destroying the underlying asset, which is our federal government. host: sherry is next in north carolina. democrats line. caller: am i on? ok. my concern is the projection shows that we spent 79 percent of all federal revenue for social security and other social

programs. the projection in 10 years 50 percent of the revenue would go for total revenue. total revenue would go to interest on the debt. i do not see any answers about this going on with government that could possibly make that situation tolerable. a few 18 years to try to solve the problem that if you wait 10 years to try to solve the problems that is a big issue in my opinion. guest: the question about the sustainability, our expenditures as a country is a very real one. an increase in interest rate puts more pressure on the budget . this is a issue that is long-standing and is our general budget as well as health care issues.

really important issues for our political leaders to confront. there are different perspectives on how to address them. the choice of shutting the government down is a very full way of addressing it. if you shut the government down you make the situation worse. he hurt taxpayers, you create if we are meant to address our budget issues we need to make choices and prioritize. to shut the government down is one of the counter active things we need to do. host: we have a viewer off of x that asks what happens if we

have that government shutdown for an entire year, what happens if it goes down for several weeks. can you compare what people might see when it comes to the impacts of government services in the works that we talked about? guest: the government is going to be doing everything it can. they are going to try to make sure that critical services are getting to the public no matter what. the damage, which is substantial and real in many ways is going to be hidden and not visible. there will be certain things that will be obvious to the general public, things like the national parks being closed. there are going to be issues that get worse over time. things like the air traffic control system, where you have -- the workers will be forced to do the work without receiving

paychecks while they are working. that is a crazy thing. that is going to have a long-term cost. there will be more attrition. all of that stuff will be shut down. it is going to be insidious in terms of the harm that is done to our government's ability to serve the public the federal workforce will be worn down. we saw that in the last time in 2018, 20 19 where you frankly saw a --tsa security ancients who wants more were forced to work without being paid, security agents who were forced to work without being paid. think about it, having federal employees go to food banks and then go to work. that is what you are seeing in 2018 and 2019.

presumably if the shutdown happens and goes on for an extended time, that is going to happen again. there are longer-term harms. all sorts of things that are important that will take place once more kind of behind the curtains. the longer it goes, the more things will break down and more obvious it will be to the public. you will have federal employees and leadership in the government try to view their job of helping people. the tension between trying to reduce the pain, none the less the government will be faltering. host: the conversation is with max stier. let's hear from julie in south carolina. independent line. caller: good morning. you talk about the federal

employees and how hard they work . that may be true. i own a business, i go to my local post office every week. you know what i see when i walk in, to of the employees on their cell phones. the federal workers are not concerned that they have job security. when i was growing up, they said get a federal job and work for a post office. why? they take care of their own. this holding is out of control. half of the people who called the show cannot complete a full sentence. please wake up, people. please. guest: ok.

i do not work for the government. i work for a nonprofit >> we are going to leave this to keep our commitment of live gavel to gavel coverage ahead of government's funding deadline and legislation that re-authorizes veterans' programs and services to authorize federal funds to purchase weapons to train students. you are watching live house coverage on c-span. the speaker pro tempore: the louse b -- the house will be in order. pursuant to clause 8 of rule 20, the chair will postpone further proceedings today on motions to suspend the rules on which a recorded vote or y yeas and nays are ordered or votes objected to under clause 6 of rule 20. the house will resume proceedings on postponed questis