source, on c-span. unfiltered, unbiased, word-for-word. the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. powered by cable. >> tonight, watch c-span's series in partnership with the library of congress. books that shaped america will feature the journals of lewis and clark. the journals came about following the louisiana purchase. president thomas jefferson commissioned meriweather lewis to lead and expedition to explore the west all the way to the pacific ocean. he chose william clark to help lead the mission which covered nearly 18,000 -- nearly 8,000 miles. from 1804 to 1806. they kept detaild journals on the terrain, plant and animal life, native peoples and possible trade route.

stephanie tubbs will join us to discuss on "books that shaped america" tonight, live at 9:00 eastern on c-span, c spon now, or online at c-span.org. be sure to scan the q.r. code to listen to our companion mod cast to learn more about the authors of the books feeched. wallner a wall street institute senior fellow and former senate -- an author and professional on most things congress related. good morning to you. guest: thanks for having me. host: the deal they came together last minute on saturday night. is it with congress is ability to function or is it more a sign of this is how we operate at the 11.5 hour. and it takes these crises for congress to actually get something done. guest: it's a little bit of

both. that is what is so frustrating to your viewers. this is in fact how congress it's things done these days. it is how congress funds the government. there is no question that if there was to be a deal last and at this is what it would look like. however, it is also a sign of congress is continued dysfunction. as we've seen over the past 10 years with most government shutdowns the way of doing business this way is becoming increasingly harder and more difficult to work to get things done. host: is this regular order now? you use to come on and we would talk about the budget profit in quarters but have these last-minute deals become the regular order? guest: that is absolutely right this is regular order. regular order refers to the iconic's will hal rogers -- schoolhouse rock standards. you have a committee, you have hearings, and then you go forward and then to get signed by the president but that is not how it works anymore. and this is for big major deals,

this is how things happen. host: so what happens, what needs to happen in the next 43 days for this to not happen again? to a crisis vote. guest: we will see this happen again. it is no secret that this cr, the stopgap spending bill expires november 17. that is literally the friday before congress goes home for the thanksgiving holiday. they did not have to pick november 17, but they did which i think shows us that there we are going to end up right back in this place. what should have happened, or what ought to happen if you want to see a more deliberative process is congress needs to give itself time to pick up bills, debate them individually or in groups, get the members to to get it -- judah gave their decisions and then decide on how to make their bill. host: and how do you think this will come to crisis mode again? he picked the day -- did they pick the day that this would be

a threat if you do not get this done then you will miss your thanksgiving holiday? guest: members have this thing called debt -- gentoo and wen yu set them for thursday or friday afternoon something always happens when senators and house members are stuck in a room and they realize they are not going home until they get something done. this is how congress at least in the last decade or two has forced with members to compromise or at least two aggressively go along without times -- outcomes they otherwise would not go along with. host: what would change the system? we establish this has become regular order. how do you fix it and how do you break the cycle? guest: right now, the reason why congress has been so dysfunctional is not because it ran out of time but congress has had plenty of time this year the appropriations process to play out. earlier this year we saw debt

limit deal of bipartisan spending deal between speaker mccarthy and president joe biden republicans and democrats signing up or it. and the expectation was that we would have more regular order where congress would pick up and debate creations bills and we would not have cr. but here we are right back at it. that to change, i think it is clear for -- that voters ultimately have to tell their members of congress and the senate and the house that they want a change. until they do that, it is not going to change. host: the way this played out a disincentive for deals in the future like what we saw between the white house and speaker mccarthy? guest: well i think the way this played out shows us that this creating a -- pushing rank-and-file members back up against the wall -- speak out of both sides of their mouth. they can hold their nose and vote for a bill until constituents the concert and serve not doing so would be disastrous. so it has it where they can have

their cake and eat it too. but the problem is this is how we've done business for the last decade in congress for controversial issues. this episode is showing us that is getting harder and harder to do and eventually it will not work. you cannot do judah kate the concerns of the people that have been calling in about. you cannot do those concerns when you do not allow them a place in the government to actually have a debate and to cast those votes. host: the lines are open for viewers to join the conversation with james waller of the or street institute senior fellow there. you can --democrats (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002. you mention the callers this morning. the topic of the conversation has been a motion to vacate, i wonder your thoughts on that and o'toole used by members of

congress to put pressure on the leadership. was is always going to happen as soon as mccarthy made the deal to allow one member of congress to offer this motion to vacate that was needed to secure enough votes for the speakership back in january? guest: the rules are not a constraint. it is not like you live at home and you have a curfew and your parents tell you you have to be home by 10:00 p.m. or 11:00 p.m. and if you don't it is their consequences. the rules of congress do not work the same, they leverage administrators republicans and democrats alike to participate in the process and they give them leverage and that is a good thing. it does not matter you're standing, it is a good thing. that is why our elected representatives go to congress to judah kate our concerns. and it is certainly ranked by law members in the house as an ability to force their view into

negotiations and force leaders to consider them. it is not hanging over the speaker's head because it allows for a vote of whether or not a speaker should continue in a job. and if the ranking file of the speaker wants to continue then they will. and then if they do not they will get a new speaker, it is the end -- not the end of the world but it is a vote that gives an individual lawmaker leverage otherwise they would not have. host: over the years we talk about the power on capitol hill and where it is concentrated. we take it -- i take it that you are of the opinion that leadership in the house and senate have had too much about power concentrated in their offices and not how it works in the past with committees and individual members having or of that leverage and power. guest: there's a lot of different ways to lead congress. it will add and flow between the two chambers the house and

senate and it will also change over time. i think a better way to think about it is how do we as americans get our elected representatives to go to congress and negotiate the nonnegotiable's area that is why we have congress. we do not need to debate things we agree on already does this in rise in the east. we -- does the sun rise in the east. we already know that congress does not have to debate that. it is things that are -- congress has a crucible of conflict that has to plan. and the ranking party and -- ranking in both parties has empowered the leadership in both chambers to take that off of the lawyer, out of the public venues where our elected representatives would normally take positions that we can see from afar is held accountable for or reward them for. and they given them that power to their leadership when it does is create a disconnect between what we see from the out side and what happens on the inside. it is precisely that disconnect

but is unsustainable. i think that is the message from this past weekend in washington dc. host: different scenario what is your feelings on tommy turberville hold on military promotions and the block votes that would happen. a lot of criticism from the known party and democrats in the white house as well that is holding up this process. guest: we have another example of how a lawmaker can use this rule as leverage. the senate rules do not give anyone senator a veto over what the chamber does. it is the senate majority party deciding it does not want to follow the rule. asking for a consent of to waive the rules in powering the senator from alabama. the problem is, you cannot ask a senator for their permission and then get upset when they say no. that is not a consent request. you are basically saying this is

how it has to be done. the democrats have every power they need under the rules to roll and go over senator tommy tuberville's head. and both nominees where they have the geordie leader chuck schumer. but they chose instead it appears that to criticize the senator and make a political point as opposed to using the senate role to get something done. host: we talk about nominations and motion to vacate, what is one of the other tools of leverage that a member can do to insert this power? guest: we saw a senator from colorado object to a request for the ukraine funding the past weekend. and getting some sort of negotiation and informal commitment to move on the funding. that is another example of how a senator can use the rules. members of congress, there is a

lot of the names around the filibuster is another one. the filibuster is not a veto but an opportunity to ache. the longer you speak the more impatient your colleagues get. apparently that is not what lawmakers do anymore. and the more they are willing to give you and work with >> we are breaking away for live coverage of the u.s. house. today lawmakers are considering several bills including limiting the use of educational standards when evaluating candidates for federal cyber security positions. now live to the house floor here on c-span. the speaker pro tempore: the house will be no order. the proceedings will resume on that was postponed. votes taken in the following order. motion to suspend the rules and pass h.r. 2379 and h.r. 4502 and on agreeing to the speaker's approval of the journal if ordered. the first electronic vote will be conducted as a