to wherever you are. the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span, powered by cable. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪ >> tonight, watch c-span's series books that shaped america. it will feature mark twain's novel, adventures of huckleberry finn, written in 1884. it was controversial from the beginning because of the subject matter and dialect. the book has sold over 20 million copies worldwide and had a profound impact on american literature. ernest hemingway said, all modern american literature comes from one book by mark twain called huckleberry finn. an english professor at butler university in indianapolis has taught classes on huckleberry finn for many years. he will join us on the program to discuss the book. watch "books that shaped america" featuring huckleberry

finn, tonight at 9:00 eastern on c-span, our mobile app and online at c-span.org be sure to scan the qr code to listen to our companion podcast to learn more about the authors of the books featured. host: we are back to talk about the speaker battle. guest: thanks for having me. (202) 748-8000 -- there are nine people running. what strikes you about the list? >> it is large. we have never seen anything like this. steve scalise the majority leader versus jim jordan, scully's came out on top, jordan had his three strikes to try to get the full speakership and it didn't work. now we have nine.

they will go through rounds on tuesday in which the loser in each round gets pulled but this is a large list. >> are you surprised so many people want the job? guest: it is the worst job. one candidate said he didn't like emmer. host: there is a speaker candidate at 6:30. what happens in that? that is a closed-door hearing. guest: each member will introduce themselves for two minutes and then there will be a q&a session and closing remarks. they will lay out, i think there are hot button questions like how you will handle israel and ukraine, how you will avoid the government shutdown. how will you pass the

appropriations bills? even the conservative ones that the appropriations committee produced, they are having trouble clearing the floor. the bill was held up due to spending levels disputes. host: the question is who can get to 217 votes? guest: the vote is a simple majority. you can see 111 out of the 221 people supporting it. and basically get to that number. host: what is the mood of gop congressmen, how has it changed? is there a sense of fatigue that has sent in? are they on antidepressants? guest: there is a lot of outrage and a lot of high tensions. it was remarkable, people came out angry, yelling. we see that sometimes in foreign legislatures but i think we are

getting to that point. maybe if these meetings continue there will be physical altercations. people are angry and embarrassed. michael mccaul was head of the foreign affairs committee and said it was embarrassing. there is a sense that there is this disarray and it can't keep going. congress only acts with real deadlines. i'm seeing november 18, when troops would be paid, that will be forcing action. this could drag on but once we get to the november deadline, congress has to act. they tend to get their act together at the last minute. host: join our conversation. the numbers are here. you can send us posts on facebook and x. talk about how jim jordan's

candidacy and how it fell apart. guest: he founded the house freedom caucus but members who had been here for a long time remember jim jordan was the matt gaetz of the era, controversial who had spats with the speaker, john boehner, and was railing against people as republicans in name only. institutionalists have that memory. at some basic level they were unable to support him. we see a list of people on here who have conservative policies like kevin hearne, byron donalds, johnson, the same menu but different waiters. this is a different set of personalities. these people perhaps don't have the same enemies jim jordan did in the conference and may be the line. host: he went to three votes. steve scalise was out immediately but jim jordan

stayed in. he got less and less support. guest: one thing i found interesting, he was in backdoor talks with the new york delegation who were interested in policy goals. this was capped under a trump at $10,000 per taxpayer. they want to see that doubled or tripled. there was progress i am told in those negotiations. maybe those guys could come on board, show some momentum and get the numbers down. there was a sense that if you got into the single digits the opposition would collapse. they thought it was worth trying and if the closed-door vote on friday night had gone differently and the majority had continued, he would have continued all weekend and tried to hammer it out. he was a wrestler. that is here -- his approach. he is determined. that is what he was planning to do. host: how do you think former

president's -- former president trump's endorsement of jordan affected him? guest: it helped to really, in the end caused steve scalise to have to bow out. events happened were jordan got a tepid endorsement and trump was in favor. trump will be a fairly big factor. i want to talk about the whip tom emmer, the front-runner who has trump issues. he didn't vote to overturn the 2020 election and that is something trump holds a grudge against him for. that will perhaps make it difficult for him to get to 217. host: the idea of the motion to vacate, what are you hearing about the status of that staying in the rules package once the speaker is -- guest: after mccarthy was deposed i heard a lot about that being changed. as a reality dawned on people that we aren't sure who will be the speaker, it is unclear there

is a constituency to change that. short of a bipartisan deal with democrats, a last resort different republicans can't find a consensus candidate. let's say jim jordan got in. moderates would want to use that in their back pocket if jordan governed in a way that was to conservative for them. there was a sense of leaving that in place. i hear rumblings about punishing members who don't support the majority speaker designate. this has happened were scully's got the vote -- steve scalise got the vote and jordan didn't get the votes on the floor. is there some way to motivate people to get in line? i don't know if you look at people's committee assignments but there might be a way to get more consensus. host: democrats line, chantilly, virginia. caller: i hear so many people on

the line, this is a crucial time for israelis. hamas have murdered innocent civilians. you cannot create hamas terrorist to israeli citizens. supporting israel 100% of the time. there is no such thing as hamas civilians in gaza. 99% support hamas. they are either terrorists or sympathizers of terrorists. host: where is the simple lentil aid package going? i understand the senate will act first on that? guest: it looks that way. the biden administration sent up a request that includes $14 billion for israel and $61 billion for ukraine. the senate is moving slowly.

i thought they would start on the it this week but the appropriations committee has their first hearing on october 31. that is later than i expected. they want to try to build support for this. mitch mcconnell is a big supporter of ukraine and wants to see the package together the way the biden administration set it up but there is a wall of opposition in the house. they want to see israel, which is more popular in the conference, separated quickly to leave ukraine to founder a bit and perhaps be tied to border security. this has been their play for a while, trying to boost border security. that is money for border barriers or trumps wall, and changing u.s. asylum and immigration policy. democrats feel the asylum system could be sped up but they don't seem -- see the rights of people seeking asylum being affected. host: ohio, republican.

are you there? caller: can you hear me? host: i can. go ahead. caller: yes. for me i wanted to clear the muddy water. this is no more than the chamber of commerce doesn't want anybody that they don't control in the speakercy. jim jordan and the freedom congress -- caucus don't take corporate money so corporate stooges won't be allowed to vote for them. congress is controlled by special interests, not the people. we know that. money talks and that is where we are down to. this serves another purpose. the budget vote was so they can push through a big package that they want. guest: that is the freedom

caucus argument. i think there is an element to which defense hawks who are interested in the national security posture and the defense industry are worried jim jordan would be comfortable with allowing a one percent across-the-board cut to the pentagon when they want to see a 5% cut. they want, there is a sense that defense hawks, like kay granger, mike rogers head of the armed services committee, were worried about that aspect. it is in their interest seeing defense dollars flow. host: let's go to the independent line. dennis. caller: i like the way you and others express themselves. but i believe the creator, god, whoever has allowed the american people to see just how

disoriented come out of order and sometimes downright perverted our congressmen and congresswomen are as far as taking care of the american people. jim jordan shouldn't be a congressman, let alone the chair. he has been implicated in many things. january 6. today he is an election denier. it is time for the american people to take a good look at who is leading us. lots of people reference the bible when they call. i have a scripture, when the blind lead the blind for both fall into the ditch. as far and gaza and israel, the people in gaza are five miles, no food and water, no benefits. these people are supposed to be god-fearing, and love jesus and can see those people need

clothing and food and shelter? i see bombs falling on five story buildings. day and night. israel is a giant as far as military is concerned. america will have to ask this because they are doing it on our dime. i would put a buffer between gaza and israel and let the palestinians have their own state and americans should help them build it up and put a buffer there. host: all right, dennis. he did mention election deniers. talk about the nine candidates and how that might play into the speaker. guest: the telling vote was to certify the election or not. we know emmer, pete sessions, austin scott, voted to certify the election. the other candidates voted to decertify.

democrats would characterize that as election denier or insurrectionist. who voted against that, they say they have questions about previous certifications. that is a telling vote i think that separates the field and away, and it will be interesting to see who gets the nod for speaker in light of that. host: i want to ask about jack lew and his senate confirmation hearings and the process. let's take a look at an exchange between him and republican jim risch from last week. >> my problem goes back to your performance previously. to quote from the washington post opinion piece, it says lew must explain why he would not allow iran access to the financial system, yet secretly tried to do that by working to

turn $5.7 billion in a rainy and easily convertible currency via u.s. banks. i will pursue an outline -- that line at this point. you recall sitting in that chair in july 2015, stating, we will continue under the jcpoa, iran will continue to be denied access to u.s. financial and commercial assets. >> i remember that well. i believe we kept iran from becoming part of the u.s. financial system. i'm happy to discuss the implementation of the jcpoa. we may not agree on the policy -- >> that is an understatement. >> we implemented a policy that was transparent that i testified before this committee on in terms of what was being done.

we negotiated with iran to have them roll back the nuclear program in exchange for which they would get access to money that was their money, that we had frozen. all we did was facilitate the transaction. we didn't welcome them back into the u.s. financial system. host: your reaction to that? are we expecting a vote on his confirmation this week? guest: i don't think it will come to the floor necessarily, but this is clearly something republicans are preparing to oppose. jack lew, former treasury secretary, jewish-american, very pro-israel but someone who was very involved in the controversial iran nuclear deal. at the time, cited by the obama administration is a crowning achievement to rollback the threat of an iranian nuclear weapon but republicans have come to see that as a mistake,

blaming anyone involved for it. host: will in wisconsin, democrats. good morning. caller: what are the chances republicans are actually possibly making a deal with the democrats to get this wrapped up , considering the democrats weren't going to allow an election denier anywhere near the gavel? guest: it is a remote possibility. we have not seen that indeed the united states. you see that in europe with small parties joining together to elect a prime minister. i think it is a last resort. if this continues, perhaps it won't -- we have a strong list of nine candidates and one could emerge as soon as possible tomorrow and get on the floor. if this continues i think there is a lot of interest among the problem solvers, republicans like fitzpatrick. definitely would not be to put hakeem jeffries in the speaker chair.

they said they won't vote for a democrat but is there a consensus candidate? mchenry getting powers through january 3 to conduct business as a temporary speaker? could he get powers until the end of november? democrats want something for that. they don't want to be a cheap date. they are looking for another seat on the rules committee, it is unbalanced in favor of republicans. they could see control over the extension calendar, built up to a two thirds vote. if they have someone on their agenda, they should be allowed to bring it for a vote. there is talk about doing that but i think it is a last resort. it would only come up in a situation where the next nine candidates all failed and the chaos was persistent. host: let's go back to what you said about the next deadline, november 17 when the government would not have any more funding. november 18 there would be a

shutdown. what are the chances of that and what needs to happen before to keep the government open? guest: the chances remain high. i thought jim jordan would get the speakership. he put forward an idea to keep a stopgap bill in place through april, the end of april that would kick things to the spring and raise the chance of a spring shut down because that backs up against the 1% automatic cut. he pitched that to supporters and his supporters were so excited about getting a freedom caucus member in there. they seemed to be willing to get -- go along with it. no we don't really know how it will play out. outside the candidate forum, we will be listening if they figure out what they are saying about government funding and are they pitching a clean stopgap bill? or are they trying to be more confrontational? host: joseph from new jersey,

republican. good morning. caller: good morning. i have a quick statement and then i want to ask your guest a question. the guy before me said jim jordan shouldn't hold the gavel because he is an election denier. for four years, the democratic party denied my president a chance to be a president after spying on him, using the fbi and cia and every agency to undermine him, even have an -- having a meeting before trump was elected to how to undermine general flynn. jim jordan is a denier because he wanted to protest on january 6, which is constitutionally allowed? i'm wondering why you didn't push back on that. guest: i love the jersey accent. i'm a jersey guy myself.

both parties right now, republicans are arguing against biden policies and investigating him. democrats had congress and trump was in the white house and they did the same. both parties undermine the president of the opposite party. people think there is a distinction when the results are coming in and there were certain activities by the president under investigation by the authorities. potentially to overturn the result of the election. that is where it really lies. there is a bit of a distinction there. i think it is worth making. jim jordan said what he was doing was questioning and raising issues and not trying to create some sort of fraud but democrats allege otherwise. host: vicky in austin, democrat. good morning. caller: is it for vicki? host: yes. go ahead. caller: thanks for taking my call. can you tell me, what are embers

chances -- eve--emmer's chances. is there anyone that doesn't have the maga chances? what are the chances that dems could support someone like emmer to get a moderate in place? guest: i think he has a good chance. he is the whip. he has the phone number of everyone in the conference. he has an operation in place, leadership experience. he is more moderate than mccarthy, coming from minnesota. he has trump issues, differences with trump. pete sessions, i think him jumping in pushed out the budget chairman jodey arrington come a congressman. he was the campaign chairman after being in the wilderness for decades in the 1990's, rules committee chairman. he is an institutionalist,

deeply conservative but institutionalist. austin scott had been obscure but for -- president of the tea party class. his stances are conservative but he doesn't like the freedom caucus bomb throwing approach. he is focused on specific issues like the farm bill and i think his candidacy is about that. he will put himself out there and try to make sure whoever gets the gavel will make commitments to get the farm bill. agricultural subsidies and rural aid through the house this year. jack bergman is a relatively minor figure but military experience, a marine colonel. i think some more moderates, byron donalds would be historic is the first black republican speaker. he is relatively new, in 2020 but was involved in crafting the government funding extension with an 8% cut. he negotiated with the mainstream partnership folks and

a personable person. kevin hearn, also very personable, mcdonald's franchise owner. deeply conservative and proposed in the past cuts to futures of security -- social security medicare benefits but someone who is well-liked. mike johnson is number five in the leadership. dan muse are from pennsylvania through his hat in the ring. gary palmer from alabama, he is a republican policy committee chair man, deeply conservative but a quiet figure. it could go to someone like palmer if the conservatives and moderates get into a deadlock and look for someone who is in the middle. host: keri in virginia, independent. you are next. caller: i was listening this morning, i find this to be a very important subject. i wanted to say to you,

moderator, i'm disappointed for your ableist mention of antidepressants. for all of those people out there who have a situation with disability regarding suicidality , -- host: you are right, i should not have. i'm sorry. i should not have joked about that. william, republican in pennsylvania. caller: you keep calling jim jordan an extra must. nancy pelosi is an extremist. she still has her speakership for some reason. for all of these moderate so-called republicans, you keep calling people extremists. you guys will never be in office ever again because primaries are coming up in 2024 and i have a feeling that all of you will be gone in 2024. that is my extremist opinion so

i will leave it at that. thank you. guest: i wouldn't use the term extremist, that is pejorative but jack -- jordan proudly embraces that he is more conservative. at bloomberg we did an analysis of his boats. he was part of the right of the center of his conference. that is something he embraced. he said he is willing to talk and listen to everybody, and extra must i agree is not an appropriate term. primary members in his district, the republican party could do that but it would limit their ability to hold those seats and risk turning the conference, the congress house over to speaker jeffries and the democrats. host: we will be watching closely for whatever is happening, the speaker candidate forum tonight and tomorrow. guest: my focus is spending and tax policy. i'm interested to see how the

speaker candidates answer the question, how do you keep the government open? if you are going to reduce the deficit, what is your strategy? how will you fund ukraine and israel and handled the border situation? i'm interested in that. i'm interested in what kind of deal could be cut. lisi state and local tax deductions change so massive tax policy, it almost was changed in the back door in secret? i'm interested in those policy details in particular. host: john, democrat,, good morning. caller: they did a great thing that women and children are not in the battle, that only israel has women and children.

israel is not going to invade. they are going to starve these people. you can tell -- i don't want to fund either place. because in the end, they are going to come around after they have shoveled all this money and say, "oh, my, we have to cut social security," how can you afford all this other stuff? i have one more thing. about a month ago, you had a guy on here on the program, i watch every day, i think his name was bradt. he was a former representative. i think he would be great as the speaker of the house. thank you very much. host: last word, eric. guest: issues with social

security on the overall deficit are trillions of dollars. it is much, much bigger. you can argue about the wisdom about sending aid to israel. the magnitude is very different. talking about the shortfall of security, it's probably the most percolated tax policies, the trump tax, raising the cap on the payroll tax which would force higher income people to pay more, social security is heading toward a fiscal cliff in the middle of the next decade but there are ways to do it. ms certainly -- most certainly not by cutting foreign aid. you look at big items like tax policy or reforms to medicaid and social security which are quarters of magnitude bigger as far as the budget is concerned. host: all right, eric wasson, reporter for bloomberg. you can find his job -- his work on bloomberg.com. thank you.

announcer: c-span's washington journal, our live forum involving you to discuss the latest issues government -- issues in government and public policy. coming up tuesday morning we will discuss the latest on the house speaker race with laura weiss and senior fellow and washington host columnist henry olson. also we talk about the latest in the israel-hamas conflict. c-span's washington journal. join in the conversation live at 7 a.m. eastern tuesday morning on c-span, c-span now, or online at cspan.org. ♪ announcer: tonight, watch c-span's series, in partnership with the library of congress, "books that shaped america." we will feature mark twain's

novel, "adventures of huckleberry finn." it is controversial from the beginning because of its subject matter and use of dialect. and has sold more than 20 million copies worldwide and has had a profound impact on american literature. the library of congress quotes ernest hemingway saying all literature comes from one book by mark twain. -- this one book by mark twain. we will discuss the book on the program. watch "books that shaped america," featuring "adventures of huckleberry finn" tonight on c-span, c-span now, and online at cspan.org. scan the qr code to listen to our podcast about the author features. ♪

announcer: c-span's online store has latest collection of c-span products, apparel, books, home decor, and accessories. there is something for every c-span fan. every purchase helps support nonprofit operations. shop now or anytime at cspanshop.org. announcer: president biden announced plans to invest in 31 regional tech hubs around the country. while speaking about the economy and his administration's policy agenda, in addition, the president told reporters about his recent conversation with pope francis regarding humanitarian aid to gaza. this is 10 minutes.