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or here or way out in the middle of anywhere, you should have access to fast, reliable internet. that is why we are leading the way. >> mediacom supports c-span as a public servi, along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> we are joined for the first time on the washington journal by the vice chair of the election assistance commission. n in d.c. speak. mr. hovland, on the e.a.c., background, how long has it been around? what's the mission of the election assistance commission? guest: thanks for having me. the election assistance commission is a small federal agency. not everyone's heard of it. we were created by the help america vote act of 2002. which was congress' response to the florida 2000 election. so they created the agency as an independent bipartisan agency. there are four commissioners.

i'm one of those four. we were charged with a handful of missions. first, to test and certify voting equipment. to serve as the clearing-house for best practices in election administration. and to provide a number of surveys and research across the elections. the reality is elections are run at the state and local level across the country. our elections are very decentralized. part of our role is to look at the different ways that americans are getting registered. is that at the d.m.v.? is that online? and how they are participating? are they voting by mail, early in person, on election day? we study that and look for best practices across the country to support election officials. host: you know that elections are very decentralized in this country by designed. why? guest: part of that is just the

basics of federalism. again how we are set up with 50 states. there are -- it's really interesting to see from the vantage point to look at the different ways people run elections. and see how those can support voters. one of the things that i think about is a lot -- in 2020 during the pandemic as more voters than ever were looking to vote by mail, that meant election administrators had to respond to that. and we had the ability to learn from those states that had -- who had previously moved to full mail how they had -- those lessons learned. we are able to share that across the country and it made a big difference for election administrators and voters. again, there's really that advantage of looking around the country. seeing the different ways that elections are administered across the country.

and using that to inform future policy. host: you mentioned the main job of the e.a.c. is certify voting equipment. how confident are you in the voting equipment used in that very decentralized process around the country? all the different types of voting equipment that it is working, working properly, and we'll get the proper counts? guest: i'm very confident. part of the testing of certification process to start off i'll say that the standards that we set are called the voluntary voting system guidelines. part of that again is federalism and the states are in charge. then the states that choose to use our program, we run that equipment through rigorous testing. and that's on a number of issues. that is security, of course. it's also usability. accessibility. there is hardware testing. making sure the equipment is

physically safe to use. i think one of the things that a lot of people are unaware of is we do have this testing and certification program. and really all of the rigors that this equipment has to go through to be certified. host: does every state use that program? all 50 states? guest: not all 50 states use t the vast majority of states use it in some way. and that is either some use voluntary voting system guidelines as i mentioned, they use that wholesale. some use it as a baseline and add on state requirements. others use as part of our testing and certification program we also accredit test laboratories. some states have their own standards but use our accredited test laboratories. again, every state does things a little bit differently. those are the main varieties. host: you mentioned the concept of federalism a couple times. why not make this like the

minimum wage? where the federal government sets a minimum standard for voting, and the states choose to go above those standards. they can do so on their own. why not have a baseline that says this is a basic system that works and you can trust and that everybody can feel confident in in all 50 states? guest: in some ways that is what we have. when you see federal legislation around elections, it's fairly rare. but when you see it it's providing that baseline. the voting rights act of course ensuring that all americans can participate. and things like the national voter registration act, which is more commonly known as motor voter. that was providing a baseline for access to voter registration. the help america vote act that created the e.a.c. again did a number of things. it was about creating baseline standards for things like

statewide voter registration databases. making sure that all voters could vote independently. making sure it was accessible equipment in the polling place. things like provisional ballots we have across the country now. sometimes those are cast in a light in the negative, but what they do ensure is everyone has a fail-safe. if you have shown up on election day, at a minimum you can cast that provisional ballot. that provides election officials with time to figure out if you were eligible. that is a safeguard for the voter and a safeguard for the integrity of our system. host: i guess i was thinking more about the mail-in voting which caused so much controversy after the 2020 election. why wasn't there a baseline of here's the standards for mail-in voting? then states can go above that if they want. therefore people can feel confident in this expansion of

mail-in voting. p. guest: there is a baseline for military and overseas voters that the uniformed and overseas citizens voting act, that provides that baseline. then again you have states who choose ranging from full mail ballot driven votes, to absentee and exused absentee. one of the things we know was voting by mail wasn't new in 2020. we know in 2016 nearly a quarter of americans voted that way. we saw it spike up in 2020 to almost 45% of americans. went back down some in 2022. i expect for 2024, while i don't think it would be as high as 2020, it will be higher than it was in 2016 probably in the mid

30's. if i was going to guess. because that's a trend we have been seeing. it's how many americans want to participate in the process. that's really a big part of it is thinking about how americans want to tphaeufpblgt how they want to -- engage. how they want to participate. when i think about election administration, i think about -- it's about customer service and how are they able to participate? you have seen an expansion of early in-person voting. an expansion of vote by mail. that's a recognition for many americans, tuesday in november isn't the best day to vote. give them that option is really key to helping americans participate in the process and make their voice heard. host: about a year, election 2024, we are focusing in this segment on the work of the election assistance commission. ben who have lapd is our guest. vice chair of the e.a.o.

former chair. here to take your phone calls and questions. phone lines call in as usual, republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. go ahead and call in. ask folks calling in, ben hovland, what do you think is the biggest threat of the integrity of the u.s. elections in 2024? guest: i think that one of the things that we have seen post 2020 is that there has been a lot of confusion about the process. i think it's important to help provide that information and transparency for voters. i think traditionally so many americans turned on the news on election night, checked the results, and that was sort of the end of it. and i think that you have seen more people take an interest in the process of election administration. it's a very involved process.

there are -- the people who run our elections across the country, the men and women in local jurisdictions across the country, are professionals. and they have so many checks and balances in place. and i think for a number of people that is new to them to learn about the behind the scenes work that goes in to ensure the accuracy and integrity of our elections. host: greg out of florida line for democrats. good morning. caller: mr. hovland, i heard something very troubling to me when donald trump was in new hampshire. he said in his rally, don't worry about voting. that we have plenty. what was that supposed to mean? thank you. host: you want to take a stab what he was talking about? guest: i wouldn't -- i'm not sure that i would be able to guess. what i would say i'm a big fan of voting. i think it's critical for all

americans to make their voices heard. again, a big part of it is being aware of how you can participate. making sure that you are registered to vote. making sure that registration is current. we skipped ahead to 2024, but the reality is there are elections -- there are americans voting rights now. early voting in municipal elections around the country. states like virginia and new jersey have statewide elections. it's important to make sure that you are able to vote in all those elections that you know when these deadlines are coming up for registration. again that you are registered at your current address. and that you know how to participate. certainly anyone out there who is looking to do that i encourage them to check out e. a.c..gov/vote. a great way to get connected to their state officials. host: milwaukee, wisconsin. kerry, republican. good morning.

caller: good morning. i have a lawn mower going on outside. first of all let me assure you that i fully understand that there is absolutely no proof of widespread voter fraud in the 2000 election. i don't believe the gray line perpetuated by trump and his trumpies. i'm a die-hard republican, but i don't like trump. i have two very thoughtful questions. the first one is, regarding the dominion voting systems. again i know that they won huge in a lawsuit against fox news. but if people google dominion, there is a great number of articles on there talking about the vulnerabilities that they have found. even post election in the dominion voting systems. although they said there is absolutely no proof that it's contributed to any fraud. they do acknowledge that there were a number of vulnerabilities

found. secondly, as far as registering. since we have an even greater number of noncitizens, undocumented adults living in the u.s. right now, what safeguards besides the fact that people who -- a lot of them who speak a different language do certify and they sign something when they register, whatever, attesting to the fact only citizens are allowed to sroefplt besides that what is there to prove that only u.s. citizens can vote? i have never been required to provide a birth certificate to register to vote. let me just last say i think the greatest risk integrity of our voting system going forward is the mass media and social media. you get extreatments on both ends. which makes it very difficult find out the truth about what the actual candidates and their parties stand for. i appreciate the answer to those two questions about the dominion

voting -- host: i got them both. thank you for the questions. mr. hovland. guest: thanks for that call. i think there is a couple things there that i want to make sure to hit on. first, the difference between a vulnerability in a system and somebody exploiting that. all computers have vulnerabilities. that's just part of technology. then the question is, has that been exploited? as far as the voting systems go, we have seen no evidence that any votes have been changed. anything has been exploited in that manner. again, i have full confidence in that. i think, again, there's been a lot of talk about this. and certainly no evidence has been provided to show that. host: because nobody tried to exploit them or because they -- what's your assessment knowing about these vulnerabilities now,

why we don't see any evidence they were exploited? guest: i think there is a few things there. one is, again, as i was talking about earlier, sort of the totality of the process and safeguards in place. the checks and balances in place. you have, to the degree that you have voting equipment, you have also physical security. so whether that is the seals and locks on the equipment itself. the locked warehouse or cage it's in. the requirements usually around the country for bipartisan teams to access that. all of those are layered security. in the security world they talk about defense in depth. that's what that means. you don't have one sort of single point of failure. you are able to layer your security. we have seen that across

elections. there are also safeguards in place on things like post election audit. and pre and post election logic testing. that's a mouthful. what that really is tests that election officials put in place to make sure that the equipment is working the way it's expected to. to again make sure that it is trustworthy and they can have confidence themselves. host: the other question from the caller was against registering noncitizens to vote. guest: again, citizens are who are allowed to vote. every voter registration in the country asks you if you are a citizen. that is under -- you are signing that under penalty of perjury. it is a felony to lie on those forms. and again --

host: we have plenty for calls. ben hovland is our guest. he's the vice chair of the u.s. election assistance commission. you have been working on election issues and voting issues for your entire career? guest: yes. host: where did your interest in election administration come from? guest: i will say i did start out on the campaign side of the house a little bit. and knew that wasn't for me. so i went to law school. then i ended up working in the missouri secretary of state's office. i was working on both some ballot initiative litigation and through that process got sort of more and more exposed to election administration. and really liked it. i think that -- host: what did you like about it? guest: election administration, and i think one of the things that we see a lot is that election administration in campaigns, the lines get blurred. we have seen too much

politicization of election administration. to me election administration is the separate process of about how we make sure that americans are able to express their voice and their vote. and for me, election administration was sort of close to politics but sometimes they talk about it being politics adjacent. you can see that, but more than it being about who anyone's voting for, it's making sure everybody has that opportunity. sometimes they talk about in the context of being a poll worker. if you have never been a poll worker, a great way to get a lot of confidence in the process. you are that customer service space of our democracy. it doesn't matter who someone's coming in to vote for, it's simply that your neighbor's coming in and you're able to help that person to participate. i have done that in a number of -- i have done that a number of numbers.

every time has been rewarding. particularly some of those folks that you see that maybe need extra assistance. that 18-year-old voting for the first time. maybe they are a little nervous because they are not familiar with the process. you can help them. give them that i voted sticker. similarly, the senior citizens who's been voting longer than maybe you have been alive, but you can help them through the process and make them feel proud that they participated in our democracy. host: did you vote when you turned 18? guest: absolutely. host: have you ever missed a vote? guest: probably at some point along the line. certainly when i was younger i maybe didn't have as much of an appreciation for the importance of local elections. i probably had that classic focus on presidential elections that so many americans do. but again since we are in early voting around the country and the number of places for municipal election, i'll give a shout out to the importance of your state and local elected

officials in participating in all elections. host: ben hovland with us. about 15 more minutes left in "washington journal" today. taking your questions. this is gary in montgomery, texas. independent, good morning. caller: good morning. thanks, mr. hovland. i appreciate you being here. there are some things that have been very uncertain. my question is this, you say that there are safeguards and audits for all the various voting equipment and all. what type of safeguards or audits are there towards the actual ballots that are presented and used when people are voting? i mean mail-ins primarily. there are so many of these cities where there were dumps in the middle of the night. i'm beginning to wonder what about all these deadmen in the envelopes. do they audit people that are actually alive versus dead? or is there a way to identify that? all these cities where lots have

been burned out. they are sitting vacant. they have been like that for years. the last owners i'm wondering if they are using those titled owners as voters with these mail-in ballots? is there a wayway to audit that? guest: thanks for the call. i think there are a couple things there. one, i have never seen dumps. there are safeguards in place all throughout the process. when you talk about the mail-in balloting process. one of the things that's really important to know is that across the country there are safeguards. most states use a signature verification process. so they are comparing the signature with your mail-in ballot to the signature that's on file. that's the primary thing that we see. that is verified by people and teams. there are also -- there is an accounting that goes in. you have a certain number of

registered voters. you have the people who have either -- if you are in a mail state, everyone sent a ballot. you are making sure who has returned that. if you are in a request state, you have that accounting. at the end of the whole process there is something called the canvas and certification process. and that's where election officials go through and they do all of the math, basically. they make sure that the ballots they started with the ballots that were used, the unused ballots all add up. there is an accounting for all that that takes place. make sure that's just part of the safeguards that are in process. just one thing that i would flag to gary's question. it's rare but the add dress issue he -- but the address issue he raised. one of the things we do occasionally see with our uniform and oversea voters,

military voters, many of them -- military voters overseas citizens are able to use their last address. so sometimes if they have been in the military for a while or overseas for a while, their address may not exist. we do occasionally get calls about issues that have come up about a particular address or somebody not being there. so many times that person is serving in our country abroad. host: 10 minutes left this morning. sheri out of dallas, texas. line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. all the things i really have to say is this. i think that everyone should be allowed to vote. as well as i think that the only reason that we came up with any of these issues is because the republicans lost the election. they refused to accept it. all the conspiracy theories and the mail-in ballots. all of these is just a mess

because the republicans lost. the couple people that they found that voted that were dead were people who voted for trump. accept the truth. the truth is, trump lost. period. host: sheri in texas. what do you want to pick up on from that? guest: thanks for the call. i think that, as i mentioned earlier, we have seen too much politicization of the election administration process. for me when i talk to election officials across the country, republicans, democrats, independents election officials first and foremost care about running a smooth election, serving their voters. and making sure that the election is secure and accurate and has integrity. i see that all over the country.

again across party lines when aim working with election officials. again you see so many safeguards in the process. one of the things that i think about, all of our election laws were -- the parties not trusting each other, that's not a new thing. our election laws are written with those safeguards in mind for that exact reason. host: you mentioned the election assistance commission, which you are vice chair, was borne from the controversy of the 2000 election. and that help america vote act. the controversy that people feel about the 2000 election, why did we not see a help america vote act 2 come from that? guest: the help america vote act of 2002 was a couple years after the florida 2000 election. anything certainly is possible. i spent five years with the senate.

sometimes congress takes time to work through these issues. one of the things that i think is critical any time you are looking at election legislation is to have those conversations with election administrationor -- administrators. make sure you understand the process. make sure there are not unintended consequences. and ultimately it be bipartisan. you saw that with the help of america vote act which was overwhelmingly bipartisan. i think if there is an issue we can get to agreement on, you could see a path forward. host: what is an issue you think we could get to agreement on? is there a date to change that you would advocate for? guest: at e.a.c. we are not in the business of legislating. again i think that to me when you look at election administration and you think about that baseline that i talked about earlier of good governance and customer service, how do you serve voters?

when that is your framework, you can find a lot of areas of bipartisan agreement. the e.a.c. is a bipartisan agency. everything that we do as an agency we have to have bipartisan agreement on. there are so many things in this area that are really just about serving voters. host: laura is in spokane, washington, republican. good morning. thanks for waiting. caller: yes. good morning, mr. hovland. thanks c-span. my concern with the voting thing is what i have heard and have some reason to believe is that they are using a new system called equity where they throw out a certain number of votes in favor of their candidates. and how this is done is by friends of the politician managing the office. and also i want to know -- i

have forgotten everything. sorry. can you tell me, can you tell me for a fact -- we have lost trust in our elections. that -- the fraud that was committed by biden and the media and covering up his history, who he is, what he was. and saying this is misinformation. how can we call that last election a legitimate election? guest: thank you for the question. i would say first and foremost that the 2020 election i was the chair of the e.a.c. at the time. the credit and sort of just -- the real story of the 2020 election to me was the amazing work that state and local election officials did across the country. obviously we are in the early days of the pandemic.

and election officials put their health and safety on the line in service of our democracy to make sure that their friends and neighbors and citizens of their communities were able to vote. and it really was the best administered election i have seen in my career. we saw a record amount of turnout. if you look at just the administration of the election, they did a fantastic job. in the aftermath of that, there has been an array of confusion about the process. i think one of the real take aways for me is to know where to get your information from. there is a lot of information out there. a lot of information online that is not trustworthy. but your state and local election officials, those are the best sources of information about how elections run in this country and reaching out to your

local election officials is the best way to get accurate information about how elections are run in your community. again -- the caller was from washington, they are a mail state. maybe not as many opportunities to serve as a poll worker there. but in states where you can be a poll worker, great opportunity to see the process firsthand. also election offices, all the ones i have been to are very transparent. they like to give tours. so it's an opportunity to see the operations firsthand and bill that confidence -- build that confidence i know election offices have across the country. host: how many states are mail in? guest: it depends how you count. there are a few flavors. everything depends. the earliest dates were oregon and washington. they are more of a traditional old mail. they mailed a ballot to every

registered voter. then you have i think colorado that do that, but they also have an in tkerb person component with vote centers. utah is now largely mail driven. we have also seen hawaii and vermont move that direction. then you have states like arizona that have a significant portion of the population on their permanent mail list. so they are not a full mail state. but they have 730%, 830 -- 70%, 80% voting that way. host: in-person voting for somebody whether it's next year in the 2024 election or all the state and local elections happening now, and in the coming months, somebody going in-person and talked into the poll place, wherever that is. what should they look for to feel confident that this is a well run election, can i trust what's happening here. if they -- i can trust what's happening here. if they look around the room, what should they look for?

guest: i think that number one, first and foremost, the thing that you see so often when you work -- when you walk into the polling place, is citizens just like you from your community. who are running that election. you go in and you check in in the poll book. that may be a paper poll book or electronic. again that is a recording of all the registered voters. that will later be used in that canvas and certification process that i mentioned earlier for an accounting. and then you'll be given a ballot. that may be in most places now that's a hand marked paper ballot. in someplaces you'll use a piece of equipment that may have either mark paper ballot for you or have some type of paper up trail. so you'll go through that process. and if it's a hand marked paper

ballot, a lot of the times you'll put it in the scanner or ballot box. maybe that will be scanned later at the polling place. what you have seen through that process is citizens from your community walking you through the process. taking care to record each step of that process that will then later be accounted for to make sure everything adds up correctly. you'll see bipartisan teams that make sure that everything is going as it's supposed to and following the processes and procedures that are set out in the law. host: we'll end it there. for much more on the work of the election assistance commission, it's e.a.v..gov. what can viewers find? guest: there is a lot of information about election administration. all times of election administration. and then eac.gov/vote, there are links to your state and local election officials. for state specific information.

host: check it out eac.gov. ben hovland is the vice chair of the u.s. election assistance commission. announcer: c-span's "washington journal," are live for him to discuss the latest issues and government, politics, and public policy from washington, d.c. and across the country. coming up monday morning, a political reporter discusses representative mike johnson's first week as speaker in the week ahead for congress. david becker with the center for election innovation and research talks about efforts on the state and federal level to boost voter education and confidence in the u.s. electoral system ahead of next fall's elections. "washington journal," join in the conversation live at 7:00 a.m. eastern monday morning on c-span, c-span now, or online at

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