host: this is the worm for november 6. we want to hear from jewish americans and palestinian americans in the audience. as you offer your perspective on events that occurred in the war between israel and hamas. bill burns in the region today as secretary of state tony blinken has been meeting with leaders in turkey today after

meeting with jewish and palestinian and arab leaders. if you are jewish american or palestinian american, nt ive ur thoughts on the events of the last month, here's how you can call us. 202-748-8000 for jewish american in the audience. palestinian americans, you can call 202-748-8001. you can also text us at 202-847-8003. follow on facebook and x and follow the show on instagram. axios reporting it is the c.i.a. director bill burns visiting israel and other countries in the region, as other diplomats have gone the same over the last few weeks. he's going to talk about the war in gaza and in the why it matters section, this trip is part of the ongoing engagement with key parties, an effort to get humanitarian pause in the fighting and prevent a region war. he arrived in israel sunday. he's expected to meet with the prime minister, benjamin

netanyahu, the defense minister, the mossad chief. s that plays an essential role. back to axios reporting, when it comes to the secretary of state, tony blinken, "the washington post" following up that it was on sunday, yesterday, that he met and went to the west bank to meet with the palestinian authority president mahmoud abbas and stopped in baghdad for talks with the iraqi prime minister. he also pressed leaders for humanitarian pause to allow aid in and people out of gaza. he urged israel to limit civilian casualties. his remarks came as israel bombarded gaza in what the israeli defense spokesperson described as a significant attack. that's the latest. but when it comes to the perspective of what's been going on for about a month now for jewish americans in the audience, american americans in the audience, call and give us

your perspective. for those jewish americans, 202-748-8000. the number for the palestinian americans, 202-748-8001. you can also post your thoughts on our social media sites too. it was with arab leaders that secretary of state met with over the weekend, held a press conference, and one of the people who spoke with the jordanian foreign minister, spoke about what ethiops see in the near future of the conflict. here's his comments from saturday. >> how can we even entertain what's been happening? we don't know what's left after this force. are we going to be talking about a whole population reduced to refugees? simply we do not, we do not have all the variables to even start thinking about that. i think we need to focus now on stopping this war, so at least we have -- we start even to begin to imagine the kind of

reality that will exist there. and after that, gather alone with security, were that it need us much the only way forward is just lasting petitions that will protect the rights of all -- lasting rights that will protect the rights of all, the two-state solution back and realize it as soon as possible, convincing the palestinians that they have a future, and creating conditions different from the conditions of despair and in which this cycle of violence was. so i think we need to get our priorities state. right now we have to make sure that we bring in sufficient enough food and water and

medicine to gather, because with every minute a child or a woman is dying because they don't have access to these basic services. so after that, again, we have to make sure that we do not contribute to the same conditions in which this violence erupted, and i think we are all committed to working together, and that, as we always say, united states has been leading that. we need that. the rest of us will have to do our part as well. everybody will have to do their part again to make sure that we bring security and peace to the palestinians. host: the jordanian foreign minister comments on the events between israel and hamas. your perspective welcomed, particularly for those jewish americans and palestinian americans in the audience. again, it's 202-748-8000 for jewish americans. 202-748-8001 for palestinian americans. on our line for jewish americans, andrea from

washington, d.c. starts us off. go ahead. caller: good morning. thank you so much for having me on the show. so my name is andrea. i live in washington, d.c. i want to start by saying that i am the granddaughter of holocaust survivors. it's relevant because i never in my lifetime thought that in this great country that i would feel so threatened. so as we know, american is unlike any other country in the world, and when there are pirates that are threatened, especially with a long history of hate, it has been remarkable how many other people stand up. unfortunately, we have so many examples of this with black americans, asian americans, and we've all stood in arms with our friends and comrades, but it seems like when it comes to anti-semitism, there's some sort of festering hatred underneath the surface that makes a lot of people scared to stand with us.

and as the product of a history where that was, as we all know, unleashed in a way that exposed horrors and the depth of what humanity is capable of, especially looking at college campuses, and i have a daughter who's in high school, i don't know what to think, except that i hope we can learn from history and understand that this is a moment to change the course of what feels like we're headed very quickly toward a very bad end. i mean, just this weekend in washington, d.c., 10,000 people gathered and were calling to kill my people. i hope very much that the moral expos of our friends, both jewish and non-jewish, fight and stand up in a moment where it's really shocking to me, and i hope i'm not naïve, how much hatred is out there against the

jewish people. i think that is -- host: that's andrea there in washington, d.c. again, for jewish americans, 202-748-8000. if you are palestinian american, and if you want to give your perspective there as well, "the wall street journal" highlights the fact that it was on friday that the secretary of state, antony blinken, met with the prime minister, benjamin netanyahu, of israel and other members of the country's government in tel aviv. they want to get more aid in gaza and allow foreigners and injured palestinians to get out. u.s. officials also argue a pause could allow countries like qatar and egypt to make headway to talk, free hostages being held by hamas. the israeli ambassador to the united nations on cnn this past sunday talked about if he thought his country's leaders were making progress toward the humanitarian pause. here's a portion of that interview from sunday. >> as far as i know, we know fully coordinated with the

administration. we're closely monitoring the humanitarian situation in gaza. obviously, and we always remind to everyone, we shouldn't believe or take any numbers coming out of gaza at face value. everything is being controlled by the terrorists of hamas. there is no humanitarian crisis in gaza, in coordination with the u.s. and the u.n. we allow the number of trucks entering gaza with food and medicine to reach almost 100 trucks every day. so we don't see the need for humanitarian pauses right now because it will only enable hamas to rearm and regroup and prevent us from achieving our goals, to destroy hamas' terrorist capabilities. >> you said this before, that there is no humanitarian crisis in gaza. that's kind of an amazing statement, because there were humanitarian problems there

before the war. and now obviously it has gotten bad. take their numbers aside. it has gotten to the crisis point. >> no, i'm not saying that the life in gaza is great, and obviously hamas is the only one that should be held accountable for any situation in gaza. but there's a standard due to international humanitarian law, what does it mean, a humanitarian crisis. and i'm saying again, there is no humanitarian crisis based on the international humanitarian law right now in gaza. by the way, last night, everyone could watch, thousands of gazans near the hospital with electricity, with their cell phones, watching a movie, how the hamas terrorists are slaughtering israeli civilians and soldiers.

>> but all those things could be true. host: that interview on cnn yesterday. on our facebook page, you're always welcome to post there at facebook.com/ cspan, sin i wasn't raised jewish, but i'm a stone's throw away from the d trade center on 9/11, lost a dear mof the fire department in new york, nd-boggling, very disturbing to see anti-semitirk hatred on full display. can't imagine how that would felt. but only hatred, death, destruction as an agenda. again, as always, you can post on the various sites. that's our facebook page at football.com/cspan. the lead editorial in "the washington post" today takes a look at how to think about a cease-fire in gaza. the editors writing that a case can be made for a cease-fire to facilitate possible hostage releases along with humanitarian aid for gaza's civilians, but

that would have to be on the basis of a verifiable pledge by hamas to free all of its 240 captives, to stop indiscriminate rocket fire at israeli americans, two violations of international law. most analysts assume hamas would reject such terms, which speaks volumes. nevertheless, other governments should continue to pressure to accept it. hamas' culpability, however, the editors add, does not absolve israel of responsibility to do everything it can to prevent civilian casualties and to do everything it can to release gaza's humanitarian crisis. this means doing more than it is doing at the present, particularly with regard to aid for the civilian population. that's the editors from "the washington post" this morning. the arab american institute recently took a look and did polling, not only on the events there in israel and between israel and hamas, but also the united states' role in it. this is one of those sub points

saying americans disapprove of president biden's handling of the conflict, asking the question, how would you rate your attitude towards president biden's response to the current violence in palestine and israel. only 7% of those registering very positive response. 17% somewhat positive. 20% somewhat negative. and 47% of those respondents very negative. it also talks about the opposition to sending -- the united states sending weapons to israel. the question regarding the current violence, should the united states send weapons and military supplies, 68% of those responding say it should not. 21% saying it should. 11% saying not sure. in alabama, we'll hear from erin on our line for jewish americans. hello, you're next. >> hey there. history is wren by the victors of propagandas.

in the bible, it talks about what is a jew. a jew is god's chosen people. the bible says that god's chosen people are those that keep the commandments and have the faith of jesus. the bible doesn't say anything about -- what i mean by history is written by the propaganda. what is a jew? if you can define a true jew, then you can solve this riddle. there's the jews, like israel national a jew just because they're inside israel? does that make them a jew? or is god's chosen people the jew? let's get to the bottom of this and define a true jew. host: how would you boil it down to that? caller: the bible. host: why should it serve as a basis at this point? caller: because the bible is all about god's chosen scheme how they should live their lives. if you're obedient, judaism is based on god's command ams, but judaism also started all these

traditions and stuff and got away from the commandments and started doing traditions. so history got dismantled. and history got rewritten by the victors. world war i was hitler, can any american describe why hitler was successful in germany? host: ok, that's aaron there in alabama. it was on this program over the last week, the end of last week that we heard from the jewish council of public affairs, their c.e.o. on the program talking about, at least to her, concerns about anti-semitism and the rise of it in the united states as a result of those events overeast. here's a portion of what they had to say last friday. >> and part of that was the result of how anti-semitism and broader extremism has been increasingly normalized in our society over the last few years. after october 7, we saw such a horrific increase year over year

because we were already starting from a place of crisis, but particularly over the last four weeks, what we've seen is now jews, jewish institutions, jewish property being targeted because of the actions of the israeli government. so people who are blaming jews around the country and around the world because they hypothetically disagree with the actions of the israeli government, but in targeting jews, of course, targeting with direct anti-semitism. some of it is happening on college campuses. it's been widely reported, including the student who was arrest this had week for making death and rape threats against his jewish classmates. we've seen the viral video from places like cooper union and others in which students were either surrounded, barricaded into a library in that case. other students attacked physically in certain places. and more broadly, we are seeing everything from anti-semitic

graffiti to other hate crimes and attacks against jews and jewish institutions that, again, go well beyond simply criticizing israel and to direct attacks on jewish people and property and organizations in an attempt to hold them accountable for the actions of the israeli government. again, which is nothing less than a vowed and explicit anti-semitism. host: trying it out as far as what's going on in israel when it comes to that war between israel and hamas. jewish americans and palestinian americans, up to the give your thoughts on it. 202-748-8000 for jewish americans. 202-748-8001 for palestinian americans. you want to call on the line that best represent you. you can always post your thoughts and various social media sites, facebook, x, text us at 202-748-8003. a caller from maryland on our line for jewish americans,

hello. caller: how you doing, good morning. i just want to preface by saying that my grandfather survived the holocaust. we've been discussing this and a lot of people seem to think tha. a cease-fire protest over the weekend anti-semitic. i'm jewish, but i'm a human being first. what the palestinians going

through right now is right. host: from rightsville, maryland. again, we've been asking those of you in the audience, particular physical you're jewish or palestinian american, to start off the program and give your perspective there. mike joined us from seattle. go ahead. caller: thank you very much. i reside in seattle. however, i'm from middletown, new jersey. i'm a 40-year-old jewish male. when i graduated from high school in 2001, 9/11 happened. both my parents were wall street traders, second-generation new york jews. when 9/11 happened, growing up in middletown, new jersey, i grew up with a lot of irish and italian catholics, there were a lot of conservatives, conservative republicans there. all these people are great people. and when anything happened in the community, everybody always supported each other. now, to see what's going on

reminds me of 9/11. in my neighborhood in middletown, i lost four of my neighbors to 9/11. and even gale sheehy wrote a book called "middletown, america." i decided to join the israeli defense force, like some jewish people. why? to combat terrorism. i preferred not to join the american military, because of what my father and what my grandfather experienced. my father was stationed at an air force base during vietnam. he was an air force officer, and my grandfather was an army artillery captain in the pacific theater. another one of my grandfathers additionally was a prisoner of war ads an army captain in nazi germany. now, my family has given a huge amount of service to this country, and all their military careers were stifled because their jewish. back then, and during vietnam and world war ii, jews didn't become generals. jews barely became colonels.

and the funny thing is, on my father's side, his grandfather, who was a p.o.w., as i mentioned before, an army captain, his brother helped build the manhattan project. host: i appreciate the history, but how does that relate to what you're seeing today? caller: sir, one more thing. 50% of the manhattan project was done by jewish people. jewish people, despite coming from a nation that didn't accept jewish refugees during world war ii -- host: again, i appreciate the history, but how does that relate to today? caller: on the weapons side, sir, how does it apply to today? the iron dome was a joint construction by u.s. defense companies in israel. we are allies. jewish people and israelis, we have helped america. the large plurality of the intelligence that the american military received about the

middle east and that region suspect comes from israel. host: ok. isaac, this is lloyd actually coming on our line for palestinian americans in florida, go ahead. caller: yes, i'm an ancient, same an old guy, you have to excuse my language. i'm 82 years old. i wish that you would read my book, "lloyd m. graham: deceptions and myths of the bible." host: ok, but discuss as far as what you're seeing today play out there, especially as you called in, what do you think from your perspective? caller: exponentially, please read the book, and it will explain that the jews aren't ads ancient as they seem to be. it's an excellent book. host: caller, again, you already got the book out there twice, but what you're seeing today, what do you think about what's going on? caller: i think it's absolutely horrible. they're basing their facts on

accepting the so-called holy land on mythology. read my book. host: ok, we'll go to isaac. isaac in silver spring, maryland, line for jewish americans, hello. caller: hi, good morning. how are you? host: fine, thank you, go ahead. caller: to answer your question, it's an absolute catastrophe. i don't see anything other than what's going on as really just a lot of pain to be inflicted on one another. i will say this, though, describe anything, describe october 7 as anything other than a grum really, really does not do the absolute justice, a description of what happened that day. i don't think a lot of people understand just how really that is a 9/11 moment that is a world-changing moment and the

anti-semitism that you listen to the recordings from what those guys were doing when they were killing people, they weren't calling them israelis. they were calling them jews. so they are and deliberately deflated jews with israelis you are, blue the line between the israeli government and jews, and it's very deliberately coming back to attacking jews. aside from the war that's very necessary now, there's going to have to be a lot of very careful trust building again, because a lot of things are being said that once again are not necessarily complaining against what the israeli government is doing. it's complaining against the very existence of an israel, the very existence of a jewish entity that is hidden behind all of the typical slogans buried

deep in it, if you really unravel and unwrap their careful explanations of, well, we condemn the killing of noncombatants, everybody that somehow is a combatant, everybody somehow an occupier, and therefore -- host: ok, that's isaac there in maryland. for those of who you participate at least for the first part of this program, thank you for doing so. you can continue to call in if you're giving your perspective. we'll widen those who can call in at this point about the modern-day events going on when it comes to the israel-hamas war. it's our typical lines. 202-748-8000 for democrats. 202-748-8001 for republicans. independents, 202-748-8002. you can also post on facebook, on twitter. text us your thoughts as well. again, if you are calling in on the previous lines, you're still doing that, feel free to do that.

but if you want to call in on these lines that best represent what political party you belong to and give your perspective, what's going on with israel and hamas in that war, those are the lines to call in. again, 202-748-8000 for democrats. 202-748-8001 for republicans. independents, 202-748-8002. take a look at international law, as "the washington post" that deals with those aspects in the conflict that's going on there, saying that international law requires militaries to make clear distinctions between civilians and militants and take all possible precautions to prevent civilian harm. principle of proportionality prohibits armies from inflicting civilian casualties that are "excessive" in relation to the direct military advantage anticipated at the time of the strike. it's an inexact standard that requires a full investigation, a difficult task in an active war zone. how israel is selecting its targets, making it extremely hard for experts to judge their

legality. u.s. officials say they do not know exactly how i.d.f. commanders are assessing the threshold for civilian casualties, even as they publicly urge israel to minimize the deaths of innocents. the c.i.a. director is currently over there to meet with leaders there. the secretary of state continues his visit, which has included israeli palestinian americans, arab leaders as well. omar in vienna, virginia, hello, you are next up, go ahead. caller: yeah, i keep looking up the definition of genocide in different dictionaries, and i know there's a lot of people who say it's not genocide, it's not genocide. i don't understand, because it feels like this is exactly what's happening when 10,000 people are being killed indiscriminately regardless of being combatants or not, children and women. it looks like and feels like genocide, i'm not sure why we're not calling it that.

host: omar was on our line for democrats, by the way. on our line for republicans in rapid city, south dakota, this is cody. cody, hello. caller: hello, how's it going? host: you're on, go ahead. caller: ok. the way i see it, obviously this is difficult. somebody mentioned before this was a 9/11 type of event. it definitely is. this conflict has been coming for thousands of years. you know, it's only going to get worse from here, in my opinion. we're looking at world war iii basically, potentially. you know, there's a two-state solution, and that's what needs to be realized. we're all god's people, and that's what needs to be realized. host: i think a two-state solution still a viable option at this point? caller: yeah, definitely.

absolutely. host: why do you think that? caller: because it's necessary. i don't think there's any other way. it's both their land. you know, palestinians have been there for i don't know how long, thousands of years. same with the jewish people. and it's just that difference in agreement, i guess, the difference on different opinions, and they just need to realize that those exist. host: karen is up next. karen is in napa, california, democrats line. caller: hi, can you hear me? host: you're on, yes, go ahead. caller: ok, thank you. how can you take sides on this? it's just been such a complicated situation for decades. but the one thing i wanted to add is, when secretary of state blinken suggested that the

israeli government do a humanitarian pause, and that was reflected, i believe that the prime minister of israel said, yes, we'll do that, once the hostages are released, is that correct? host: i would have to check for accuracy, but go ahead with your thoughts. caller: well, i'm just thinking, you know, the prime minister of israel is making a humanitarian pause conditional. can we make our extra aid given to them conditional also? i feel like we're not playing the strong hand that we have here. and sometimes in politics you do use conditional things like this. it's just a thought i had. host: it was one of those things that senator bernie sanders was on the sunday shows talking about that, this idea of a condition for any future aid.

we'll play that in a little bit. but let's hear from dave first. dave is in new hampshire, republican line. caller: hey, how you doing? host: fine, go ahead, please. caller: so i think that this obviously is genocide, and it's an attempted genocide on the jewish people by hamas and the palestinians and the other arab states in the region. it's very clear that their goal from the river to the sea is to eliminate jewish people. i mean, just look at the hutu slogan, death to america, death to the jews, hamas, the hutus, everybody else that is getting ready to declare war with israel. there should be no humanitarian pauses. there should be no secession. there should be all-out war until the risks in the area have been subdued.

the support for palestinians is obviously -- it tugs at your heartstrings that innocent people get in the way of war. but how many people got in the way when we were fighting the germans? how many innocent people had to die to subdue that necessary evil? host: that's dave there in new hampshire. the caller's previous point, it was out of jerusalem that israel sunday rejecting growing calls for a cease-fire in gaza with military specialists saying that forces are set to intensify operations against palestinians, hamas, but no time frame set for the activities. the israeli prime minister demanded the more than that hostages captured during the october 7 attacks are current. there will nobody cease-fire without the return of hostages, they should be completely removed from the lexicon. he told crews at an air force base in southern israel, reiterating the government's long-standing position.

asked about this idea of a cease-fire, it was the secretary of state during that press conference he held with iran leaders, was asked about the u.s. position on the prospect of a cease-fire. here's part of the secretary of state over the weekend. >> it's our view that the the cease-fire now simply leaves hamas in place, able to regroup and repeat what it did on october 7. you don't have to take my word for it. just a few days ago, the senior hamas official said it was their intent through october 7 again and again and again. no nation, none of us, can accept that. no one would find that tolerable. and so it is important to reaffirm israel's right to meet its obligation to do so.

and take necessary steps so that october 7 can never happen again. but it's also very important the way israel does that. and that's what we talked to the israeli government about with taking every possible measure to protect human life, prevent civilian casualties, as well as to ensure that those who are in need have the assistance they need. to that end, i think we all shared deep concern about the plight of civilians in gaza, men, women and children who need the most essential things to get by. we worked very hard to make sure that that is there, but it's also one of the reasons why humanitarian pause would be so important, to make sure that we can maximize the assistance getting to the palestinians,

that we can make sure people can move about safely, that they can get to places where they're safe and that, again, we can make sure that is aid flowing in, but those who are responsible contributing getting in, the right structures can be to the make sure that people can benefit from it. host: that's the secretary of state in a press conference with arab leaders. he continues on today meeting with leaders in turkey over the events in israel with hamas. again, call in on the democrats line, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. the lead page of the "washington times" this morning takes a story of the military, the military story of these events, saying new investment in america, warning the arsenal of democracy is rusting. mitch mcconnell told colleagues last week that shipping weaponry

to ukraine is a good way to get the defense plans humming again. the investments are not just replacing what's being used, the white house also adding that it sided with mr. mcconnell on this. so that's an as secretary of what's going on in the conflict. ukraine still being part of the discussion on capitol hill, especially after the passage of that $14 billion israel aid package that took place in the house last week. still debate on whether more funding for ukraine will take place in light of that. let's hear from larry in philadelphia, independent line. larry in philadelphia, go ahead. caller: yes, c-span, this is one of the most racist shows you ever had. i mean, i didn't expect c-span to ever do this. you had more calls of jewish

people because the population of jewish is way more than palestinians. you should have had muslim and jews call in. this is very bad. host: our intent was to hear from the people directly affected in this conflict. again, you've noted how many calls of each came in, but you're calling now to give your perspective, go ahead. caller: yes, it's a low percentage of palestinians. this is genocidal. this thing going on for decades. the people are being oppressed over there in palestine. it's a genocide going on. it's apartheid going on. this is horrible. you know, we should definitely have both sides of this situation speak upon.

you cannot do this. this is why. people like biden, biden will lose this election because he's involved in genocide and apartheid. we cannot have this. this is so wrong. it's wrong what hamas did. of course that's wrong. we all know that's wrong. but the jewish state, netanyahu is doing now, it's a horror story. host: ok, kay in california, democrats line. caller: hello, thank you for having me. can you hear me? host: yep, you're on. caller: ok. yeah, so about this situation, i completely concur. i think the u.s. has an obligation to do things differently. humanitarian pause is much

needed. you know, we have innocent babies, innocent women, innocent people dying in palestine. i think that it's in the hands of the world leaders now from the e.u. to the u.s. to take the lead in this. this has been going on for so long. i mean, obama just recently said, and all quote this really quickly, what is true is that there are people right now who are dying who have nothing to do with what ha did. if up to the solve the problem, whe truth.ave to take the you then to have admit none of us hands are clean. host: how would you gauge the reaction of world leaders already in its effectiveness in this situation? caller: yeah, i mean, there's ght?le that are speaking out, from the world leaders

standpoint, it'sical to some extent, right? u.s. is saying israel has the to defend themselves. yes, absolutely. buin using, and they're claiming that hamas is the palestinians as the human shield. i that it's a two-way street, right? so i think there's been a long history, but now we need to get these folks to the table, and there needs to be some of the palestinian authority as well as the israeli government, and there needs to be a path forward, right? there needs to be a path forward, how do we get through this? at the same time, yes, hamas needs to be defeated, destroyed, hands down. but that does not mean to bomb gaza, oppress them, and also at the west bank, how they treat the palestinians. it's awful. it's horrible. prior to october 7, it's been awful. host: ok.

on our republican line, david joining us from jerusalem. david, hello. caller: hi, good morning. i want to make a few points. one, 55 countries, everybody needs to know it. the jewish people have 21 small countries. the second point, the jewish people was kicked out by the romans. the palestinian people never have a country. the jewish people, 2,000 years ago, they were kicked out. the third point i want to say, 40 babies was taken off the heads, and people denied, the democrat party are disgusting. the democrat party lies about israel, denies about everything. i want to say that other thing. i'm jewish. i'm a proud jew. and i want to say the jewish state will be always, have a nice day. host: from maryland, independent

line. caller: hi, thanks for taking my call. i just wanted to say a few things. first of all, america's backlash to the nonviolent protesters here in america, the pro-palestinian protesters, it's not antisemitic. accusing us of antisemitism is really reminiscent of mccarthyism. in general, antisemitism is not antisemitism. second of all, israel is violating international laws over and over again. america is not holding them accountable. already over 10,000 people have been killed. over half of those are children. there are horrible videos of children literally, their bodies are separated. their heads are separated. you can see this yourself. and humans are not collateral damage. collective punishment is a direct violation of international law. i just want to gently remind everyone that this did not start on october 7. this started in 1947. palestinians have been living under apartheid for all this

time. israel continually is violating international law. this is not me saying this. this is the u.n. and multiple countries all over the world saying this. so it's just not right, it's not fair. the israeli propaganda and their, i don't know, it's just very strong, and it's not correct. host: ok, let's hear from senator bernie sanders, independent senator from vermont, on the sunday shows yesterday talking about future israel aid and what he would like to see happen with it. here's a portion of the interview from yesterday. >> the united states of america would like $3.8 billion every year to israel. israel can do what they want. they're an independent country. but we have a right to say, sorry, you need a new military strategy. go after hamas. but that means do not kill innocent men, women and children. >> you mentioned money. there is going to be a measure

before you relatively soon for the house more than $14 billion. there is going to be at least some version of that in the senate. will you support that? will you put conditions on it? >> we'll see what the bill looks like. but i think it's terribly important that we debate that this aid to israel. you want this money, you got to change your military strategy. the other point is we have to give hope to the palestinian people. they are living. they were living before october 7, a disastrous situation in gaza. 75% youth unemployment. right now in israel, you're having the netanyahu government, an extreme right-wing government, trying to make it impossible for a two-state solution in the west bank. they're killing settlers there. so what we need the world to come together to give hope to the palestinians, the two-state solution, and we need to have many of the very wealthy countries of the region, the

united arab republican, they are extraordinarily wealthy, work with the united states, work with the community in order to provide some hope and decency of freedom to the palestinian people, which hamas will never do. host: jessica is next in nevada, democrats line. caller: yes, thank you so much for having my call. i wanted to go ahead and say, yes, this is a war. america is involved. they are our ally. we are part of the u.n. now, first we have to realize the cooperative reconnaissance mission is needed to eliminate a group that has a long history of oppression and desecrating people, as you heard, ahead of me. so we have to have a cooperative reconnaissance. now, reconnaissance, which they're using, the ground forces, but we need a little more unovation. we need something that can

tunnel underneath the ground into those tunnels, bring our reconnaissance teams into those tunnels. come up from the tunnels, and then take care of the issue and resolve the strategy, the military strategy and eliminate the opponent. but the discussions that need to come after that with regards to the awareness of civil rights oppression of the women and the west bank political issues that she comes afterwards, when the negotiation, when everyone has a global federation of negotiation, where we have, lay down some laws with regards to how we're going to conduct wars going forward into the years ahead using artificial intelligence, and i would recommend senator drones that underneath the ground into the tunnels, and take care of the issue there. host: ok, let's hear from richard, baltimore, maryland, republican line. caller: yeah, my small comment

here is i'm looking at this genocide, and i'm looking at the comparison that i can think of. when the japanese, did it respond by bombing everyone in japan? there has to be a pause. we cannot give everyone, because they also killed our people. there has to be another solution, that's all i'm saying. host: from tampa, florida, independent line. caller: yes, how you doing? i played pro basketball in the middle east. i played in jordan. i played in lebanon. i played in iran. i played all over the middle east, qatar, kuwait. all i heard my teammates telling me, they did all this because of the suez canal. and now we're hearing that because of egypt making like $9

billion through the suez canal, when i played in lebanon for three years, one of my teammates use to the tell me they want to build another canal that's going to go right through gaza. it seems like that is taking place right now, creating this yenside. nobody's talking about that, and it's kind of crazy to me, because i almost went to israel to play, but they stopped me from going to israel because i played in lebanon and all those other countries. but nobody is talking about this new canal that america and israel is trying to build and is creating this yenside, and it's sad, because they want the money. they want to build a lane that two ships can get through to get the money. host: ok, darlene next in florida, democrats line. caller: years ago a friend of mine told me he came from palestine, the gaza strip, because he was taken out of his house and put in these camps by the germans, thoughts sees did,

the jews. what i want to know is why did it have to get to this point? nobody helping these poor people. and now we are -- and now we're hiring -- they had to hire hamas, and i think hamas is killing them as well. i think that it's a horrible state of affairs when we are this far behind and have to kill one another instead of using our minds, but why? is it true? were they really being taken out of their homes and put in camps with no food and water? if so, why isn't anybody talking about that? i love the jewish people. my son went to a school, hebrew school, but what is going on here really and why is nobody bringing that up? the colleges, when they are hurting one another, i hear that the arabs did this, but you know, this is gone, but i don't

hear anything about a jewish person doing this. and they're both doing it on both sides, which is so horrible for a college student to do to anybody, any harm, it's ignorant, they should be expelled. host: ok, that's darlene there in florida. politico reporting what's going on in israel was palestinian representative rash i had applaib, who represents the state of michigan, she accused president biden of supporting genocide in gaza, warning voters won't forget his actions at the polls in the strongest intraparty rebuke for the president since the beginning of the war. in a video posted friday to x, formerly known as twitter, there were clips of biden administration officials expressing support for israel, videos of dead and clips from pro-palestinian protests around the united states before closing with a direct message from plaib to biden. this was, again, posted on her x. you can find it there. we'll play it for you now.

viewers, this will have sensitive content to it. radio listeners, you'll see a lot of pauses with some you'd owe. here's the video that was released by representative rash i had applaib. >> we stand with israel. ♪ >> free, free palestine! >> mr. president, the american people are not with you on this one.

>> innocent civilians are going to be hurt going forward. i wish i could tell you something different. i wish that that wasn't going to happen. but it is going to happen. >> i want to thank president biden for his unequivocal support. >> we'll remember in 2024. host: again, that was released by representative plaib's x feed. there's various reactions from congress, as the only jewish member of michigan's congressional delegation, i work to reached out to arab and muslim constituents who i know are feeling fear and anguish right now. i have tried to reflect that

empathy in my approach in the crisis. i ask the same of representative rashida plaib. senator jackie rosen reacting, saying representative rashida is wrong. that rejects the two-state solution and puts jews in danger. we must reject extremism no matter which side of the aisle it comes from. america's settlement for israel remains unwavering. from richard in west virginia, republican line, you're next. caller: can you hear me ok? host: yep, you're on. caller: one of the most, probably the most chilling video that i saw coming out of october 7 was a israeli kid, maybe 4 years old, standing while several palestinian boys tormented him with waving sticks at him, throwing things at him, and this poor kid, probably lost his parents, i don't know, just standing there by himself. last night my wife and i watched

a movie, i think it's called "woman in gold," and in it there were some scenes of how the nazis publicly tormented the jews by consulting off their locks and making them do humiliating texts. what we are seeing today is a modern equivalent of the nazi movement. it's not just in the middle east, it's in this country. i don't know what all they showed, but defacing of the statues and nobody doing anything about it, we're tolerating it. the jewish student surrounded by people, shame, shame, shame, we are seeing the beginning of a nazi movement. host: ok, let's hear from jason in illinois, independent line. caller: good morning. host: you're on, go ahead. caller: yeah, basically i just want to say that, one, i do --

sorry, condemn hamas' actions on october 7. i think this shows we really need to look at, unfortunately, religion. religion is being involved, mixed with politics, to some people who say that the jewish people were there first. i'm not an expert in the bible or any of that stuff, but what i do know or the story is, as i understand it, was that god told his people to go in there and take the land of kanaan, so the prior residents who were there, they were eliminated by the the israelites. basically it's just really messy. it's sad that it's religion that goes back 2,000 years, that we're still having this problem today, while all of our modern science and logic, and it's just really unfortunate that we've got 1,400 israeli citizens dying and 9,000 palestinians dying,

and it's all based off of books and myths from 2,000 years ago, thank you. host: randall in oklahoma, go ahead. democrats line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i obviously support israel, and what hamas did was terrible. but killing innocent civilians doesn't help anything at all. it looks like they are targeting some areas with high civilian density population and killing them, and that just creates more terrorists. you're just helping out hamas, and as far as a pause or cease-fire, hamas is not going anywhere, and they need to get as many civilians out of the area that they can before they go in and go after the home as terrorists that kill these people. they go after the terrorists. this collective punishment, cutting off water and food to the people, well, that is

apartheid. that is some kind of a war crime or genocide, i don't know the technical. but, you know, the world just kind of went crazy, and we need to pull the israelis back, giving them $11 billion, i'm all for that, bit the israeli government is so incompetent incident, they didn't have soldiers on the border, which was a hostile border, which every few days a rocket comes over, and they didn't even have soldiers there. host: randall there in oklahoma city. let's hear from leo in massachusetts. leo on our independent line. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. unfortunately, the way that this situation with israel and palestine has played out in recent months, it has taken a turn for the worse, obviously. and this is a subject that i feel very passionately about, something i've kept my eyes on for a very, very long time in my short life. i hear the words war crimes thrown about with this quite a bit, and to look at it through a

criminal courtroom proceeding lens, you want to establish a track record, and a track record with the creation of israel would be the massacre in the mid 1940's, early 1950's, zionist troops, this is all fact, zionist troops ambushed a village in palestine, leaving 107 folks dead, innocent civilians, mostly children and elderly. moving onto the affair that occurred in the 1960's, a zionist plot to carry out false flag bombings on cinemas and hospitals and such to blame it on egypt to further justify annexing palestinian land. and one of the biggest things that concerns me the most is that i'm not a history major, but i'm a huge history buff. looking back at previous engagements, such as vietnam, korea, mostly anything involving the middle east, has been nothing short of disastrous. host: ok, one more call from st.

louis, missouri, democrats line. caller: good morning. this conflict brings out a couple of points for me. one is the horrors of war. and another point as far as the palestinians, when you take away their property and spit on them when they ask for a cup of water, what do you expect them to do but rise up. and this conflict, it's horrible to see it unfold on tv, and it has elements of genocide in it. the last part i want to make is that israel, i respect the israeli people, but this whole situation is built on lies, and if they try to tell the truth that it's just going to unravel their whole sense of being, so they want to keep lying and keep brutalizing the palestinians, and it just has to stop somewhere. host: that's finishing off our hour. we'll turn to matter of politics, especially as the newly minted speaker of the

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c-span. washington journal continues. host: joining us in studio, stephens dennis who for bloomberg news. he covers congress for that publication. guest: great to be here. host: remind the viewers how much time we have before the federal government runs out of money. >> guest: guest: not this friday, but next friday of the deadline for congress to act. if they don't act by the end of the day, the following day from saturday we will actually have a shutdown. so if you have a trip planned to yosemite or you have some other things that you need the federal government for life getting a new passport, you might want to pay more attention in the next couple of weeks. if you have something you need to do with the federal government, tried to do it this week. >> host: newly minted house speaker mike johnson taking care of or at least trying to take care of this.

what is he doing to prevent this happening? >> he said over the weekend he has been working on a bill to keep the government open. every bill, every vote is a test for the new speaker. he hasn't done this before, he has a very small majority. the previous speaker got tossed a few days after he kept the government open leading democratic votes. i think it is a real challenge for johnson to try to find a way to keep the government open without blowing his conference apart. so there's a lot of different proposals that have been voted by various republicans including something called the ladder cr where they expend -- extend various departments for different length of time. you also have republicans who don't want to vote for any stopgap ill ever in which case you probably need democratic votes which means you probably need a cleanish bill or some

democratic priorities. the real test for him is the minute he puts something on the floor that more than four members of his conference opposes, does he still have a honeymoon? can he actually govern? we are going to find out in the next couple of weeks. host: you talked about that interview, let's show you a little bit of it because he expresses confidence that this eventually will happen. speaker johnson talking about plans to get the government open. >> we are running out of money and a couple weeks. are we going to have another continuing resolution, how long would it last? >> reason i look a little haggard this morning is because i was up late last night. we worked through the weekend on a stopgap measure. we recognize we may not get all the appropriations done by the deadline but we are going to continue in good faith. and the difference between calling on capitol hill now and

what we've dealt with in years past is that this would allow us time to continue this appropriations process. we are committed to bringing 12 bills to the floor while statutory law requires congress to do, but we are changing the way washington works because we believe it needs to be more accountable and more transparent for the people. we are going to fight that fight every single day and get that job done. host: he talked about those 12 bills. what is the status of those bills? guest: these bills basically have no chance of becoming law as is. they are under a threat from the administration, they spend far less than what democrats were agreeing to with the previous speaker. they have a lot of policy riders on them so they are kind of messaging bills that he needs to keep at least his caucus together on, which is going to be very hard to do because he has 18 members in biden

districts that are worried about their reelection. voting for a lot of controversial policies that are not going to become law, members of congress don't like doing that. this transportation bill is going to be on the floor, has a lot of amendment votes. there are big cuts to railroad and amtrak. a lot of members have amtrak railroads going through the district, so the unions for the railroads are trying to kill the bill. if that bill ultimately passes, we have a financial and general government bill that has a lot of cultural amendments on everything from the irs to climate change and all sorts of other policies, maybe some crypto amendments that could be interesting. and then presumably toward the end of this week, we will have a bill to keep the government open. he has a few days to talk to his

members. one of the good things for a new leader is when you have these appropriations bills on the floor, members are on the floor. you can talk to them, you have lots of time to sort of try to dislodge the differences and make people happy with what you waldman the end up doing. so it's going to be interesting to see how johnson sort of tries to do basically the same strategy that kevin mccarthy did. kevin mccarthy kept the government open, and on the other issue that divides republicans, ukraine funding, the speaker is trying to pair it with a border security combo package which he said is next, and that is a very tough road to hoe because a lot of republicans don't want to fund ukraine, period. democrats are going to vote for the hr to which is the house gop immigration package, and during

negotiations going on the last couple days particularly in the senate, bipartisan negotiations to try to thread the needle have a ukraine border package that can pass both chambers and reach the president's desk. host: if you want to ask questions about what to expect in congress this week, particularly a new house speaker, (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8002 for independents. if you want to text us, do that at (202) 748-8003. we saw the house passed israel aid bill. aside from the bill itself, what does that say about -- give examples, or at least reveal how he plans to go about strategy work. guest: he went for the low hanging fruit on his first big bill. below hanging fruit is there is broad support in his conference for aiding israel and broad support for defunding the irs.

you put them in a bill. the tougher bills are when you include items that people don't like. and since he has such a small majority, if five people stand up and say i will never vote for ukraine, he has to go negotiate with democrats. that is something that we saw with mccarthy. one of the reasons why these appropriations bills did not come to the floor before september 30 is because groups of conservatives were insisting on daily riders and then saying they wouldn't vote for the bill anyways. it still wasn't good enough for them. so mccarthy was like look, i wanted to do these bills before the august recess and i couldn't bring them to the floor because conservatives were blocking them. it's a very difficult balance here when you are speaker with a four vote majority and the democrats are not going to vote for these. we are seeing that again and

again, every amendment on the floor is a test. right now he has got these financial services bills and the amendments on them are almost practiced. the next two weeks are the big super bowl. these are sort of practice runs of kenny keep his conference together? does he still have that honeymoon? can you do things that some of them don't like and then they say i'm going to vote against it but i'm not going to try to hobble you right out of the gate. i think that is an open question. his own conference, they were fighting each other on x. marjorie taylor greene, logan -- lauren boebert. every day it seems like another faction is going after another faction and certainly ukraine is something where the conference is split down the middle on a

very tough issue for johnson to figure out. he has said we can't allow putin to win. he has previously voted against ukraine, the defense on both the house and the senate have been arguing for him and his character is we need to take care of the u.s. border first. that is the big sort of negotiation that is happening right now, particularly in the senate. people like senator chris murphy, kyrsten sinema have been working with senator langford and some of the other republicans who try to find some way to reduce the migrants that are coming over the border. that is not really about money, that is more about policy issues. typically democrats don't want to change the policies but they do have incentives now, political incentives. joe biden's poll numbers are not

so hot and going into an election year, they also have other issues given that there are other priorities being held hostage right now. host: let's hear from if you were in rhode island. matt, democrats line. stephen dennis of bloomberg. caller: yes, dennis, i wanted to just give a shout out to. in the meantime, i wanted to relay something that i heard from a protester who was at the rally on saturday in washington, d.c. and it was a wonderful thing to hear. of all the tens of thousands of people that were there, and i've been hearing that from a lot of folks, no one heard a single sentiment of anti-judaism or a single call to as you would say

kill all jews, or what have you. there was none of that sort of fascism or anything like that. so i wanted to just sort of put that out there and get people thinking about that. as far as this bill is concerned, i think it would be a very interesting thing for these protesters to consider a tax strike. tax striking has a history going back to the early 1900s in small scales. it is an interesting thing about defunding the irs. a tax strike withholding taxes in the united states what i think be a serious incentive for the government to pay attention. guest: i've not heard the idea of a tax break before. i don't think it would change votes in congress.

there is overwhelming support for aid to israel. there are members particularly of the senate, chris murphy as well as bernie sanders over the weekend and last week and start the call israel. not that they don't support israel or that it has a right to defend itself, but we were seeing a lot of these images of the world is seeing about suffering in gaza and civilian casualties. and the argument that chris murphy who is on the foreign relations committee has been making is that this has a negative impact on israel's strategic goals, that the rest of the world sees this and you are creating problems when these people are suffering. so that is part of the debate this week in the senate. one of the things the chuck schumer, the senate majority leader has said he wants to have in a big package will be aid to

israel, yes. aid to ukraine, aid from order security. but he also wants to have humanitarian assistance for palestinians in gaza. the trick there is there is there's a lot of people saying well, will hamas just take the aid? that is something that is being discussed as we speak in the senate. host: rashida tlaib put out that video accusing the biden administration of genocide. you respect reaction on capitol hill due to that. guest: there's a and debate over it, but i don't see this speeding to legislation. rashida tlaib has argued that it is not intended to be a message of wiping out israel. you have others in both parties say well, look at the map from

the river to the sea includes israel. so i think right now both sides seem to be talking past each other as opposed the protests and tweets at each other. i haven't seen a whole lot of it coming together. it is much more about trying to convince the administration to do a harder line and you have seen the administration call on the israeli to step up their efforts to protect civilians. one of the things that jack reed has been talking about in the senate is having the israelis do smaller, more targeted munitions and caused a lot of collateral damage if you're trying to attack one person. i think there are various things being talked about but it is clearly a devastating situation

if you are in gaza right now. host: maryland, aaron, hello. caller: how are you? host: fine, you on with our guest. caller: why are we sending military aid to israel when we have, unlike, veterans homeless on the street, we have children going to bed hungry every night in america, we are having a government spending issue. i heard on the radio last week that the government is thinking about closing certain federal agencies. we americans are hurting and why are we sending military aid to someone else? children and citizens of israel are better taken care of by america than our own citizens here. every time you go into baltimore, it breaks your heart to see all these homeless people on the street begging for money. and it's not like israel is a poor, poor country. israeli citizens have a lot of

money on their own. they have huge tech companies, a lot of startups. let them buy weapons like everybody else. why are we sending them our hard-earned tax dollars when we can be spending it on americans who are suffering? guest: i see arguments like that on social media a lot. i don't hear those arguments very often in congress. i haven't heard them from u.s. senators. maybe we will hear more of that, but pretty much almost every republican ended up voting for the israeli package. there were a couple who voted no. thomas massie tends to be very much a skeptical foreign aid. i think marjorie taylor greene also voted no. there has been, over time, more of a push against foreign aid and part of the republican party in particular.

just to put in perspective what we are talking about, $14.5 billion, the overall package the administration asked for was $106 billion. the u.s. government budget is over $6 trillion. so 1% of the budget is about $60 billion. we are talking about 1% with 2% of the budget being discussed as far as this package in the next couple of weeks, of which israel is sort of at one quarter of 1%. >> jeff is in texas, independent line. >> i just wanted to say i grew up near ellis island statue of liberty. now i live down here in texas knew the border and it all passes -- we need to take on

america first and we need to start caring about people. we've got to avoid that. we need to fix the border here. you don't want people coming in while you are trying to sleep. knocking on the door of the country. host: can you clarify when they talk about border security funding, what is exactly meant by that? guest: different people hear different things. one person's ideas building a wall. another person might say ok, dealing with the influx of people is expensive. you have to provide shelter, you're dealing with transportation, dealing with all sorts of other things involving the migrant flow. republicans of argued that we don't actually need to spend a lot more money.

mcconnell's argument last week was we don't actually need a lot more money, what we need is different policies that some people don't come, you won't be allowed to stay. we won't be shipping people across the country, we will in addition to having more security at the border, a lot of these people are coming up to border patrol and declaring i want asylum. a wall doesn't release solve that issue. the asylum issue is one that has been growing. who have people coming from lots of countries saying hey, i can declare asylum and it takes a long time to adjudicate those asylum claims. so there has been bipartisan discussion of trying to speed up those processes. there are republicans want to bring back some form of remaining in mexico policy and they can pushing the democrats to agree to that as well.

as sort of a way to dissuade people from coming in the first place. host: sherry in washington state, independent line. caller: hi, thank you for taking my call. i believe the answer can be, or part of the answer can be to bring back the draft. if we bring back the draft, it will separate the citizens from the people that are not here legally and it will also keep some people in this country. something about what it really means to stand up for and fight for your country and let some of our people in this country be able to go out and see the world as it might be. i think it should be both men and women. i'm not sure of the details if they don't feel like they want to do that, they should maybe do four years in the peace corps. that's just my own personal opinion. bring back the draft might be

one of the answers. host: the answers to what? caller: the border crisis. people that are coming here illegally. it will separate the citizens from the illegals and we will be able to see if the illegals want to stay and they sincerely want to defend this country, they can have a segue into how they can join the military. host: got your point. talking about the wider issue of border security. the draft. guest: there might even be an amendment on getting rid of the draft this week on the financial services bill. i was looking for the amendment this morning and that was one of the amendments, to get rid of the selective service. if you look at israel, i think everybody there is called to

serve in the military. it does have an effect on culture if everybody is serving some way or another. every once in a while you will see service proposals like in maryland where they put in a service requirement. there are people with these proposals who are not going to go anywhere. there is no real constituency to compel people to serve right now. it wouldn't be particularly popular, either. talking about the border issue, i think this is something that what has changed as we are getting closer to the election. if you look at polling, one of biden's weak points is border security. against trump, against other republicans. so does that bring the democrats to the table to do something they wouldn't be willing to do previously? there were a lot of things democrats were willing to do tied to a comprehensive

immigration proposal. something that deals with millions of people already here, their children, the so-called dreamers. a much bigger conversation. it's hard to imagine doing something like that in the next two weeks. could they do a deal that gets through the next election and maybe sets the stage for some bigger package after the next election? that would be an interesting idea, but keep in mind congress has basically failed. they've taken a lot of swings at doing a big immigration deal and they have basically all failed except for some really small deals for decades. it is just a really tough issue. we now have a brand-new speaker trying to figure out in the next few days. but maybe he has a little bit more leeway as a brand-new speaker to try to reach across the aisle, to try to come up

with some compromises that may be how about the democrats. the democrats, people like joe manchin, i've talked to them, they want to do something on the border. they have potential reelection fights as well, particularly in the senate. a lot of vulnerable senators coming up probably wouldn't mind having a package that does deal with the border, and the administration did putting a proposal for a lot of border funding in the supplemental. so there is potentially room for a compromise. we'll see. the next few days are sort of the prelude to next week's showdown. this week is the week that everybody is negotiating, trying to get their team on board. next week is shut down week. next week is when you have to really cut the deal.

and we also have this situation where any one senator can hold things up for as much as a week. and so you tried to get your ducks in a row by the beginning of next week. i've seen them go to the floor right before midnight and the following week is thanksgiving week. that is big motivation for congress to come up with a deal. they don't want to be here thanksgiving week. they have plans, they have families. they want to go home. those kinds of holidays sometimes are the magic elixir. they get to the airport to cut some kind of a deal, and we will see what happens. but it is a big test for mike johnson. so far, so good as far as his ability to keep his conference in line. he's been able to pass bills, keep them together mostly, and

he's got his work cut out for him the last couple of weeks. the israel bill, not going to become law the way he proposed it. these other bills on the floor today and tomorrow, also not going to become law. host: i would ask before you leave, i want to show you an ad from the house pack, their job to get democrats into the house. speaker johnson now becoming the main target for them. i want to show you the latest to talk about what it means for politics. >> after all the chaos, congressional republicans chose extremist mike johnson sp grabowski. johnson voted to overturn the presidential election in the skull the mastermind of the january 6 plot. johnson pushed for national abortion ban even for victims of rape and call for deep cuts to social security, even raising the retirement age. mike johnson and congressional republicans are just too extreme.

host: how much is that part of the narrative for next year's election? >> i think it is a big part of the narrative, assuming he is still speaker. we just saw that this is a very unstable house republicans conference. if he is able to stay speaker and he is speaker going into the election, his past positions on abortion, on january 6, the memos he wrote about the election, all of these things and what he has said in the past on cutting spending, these are all going to be litigated in many, many tv ads. you're going to hear a lot more like that and beyond depending on which state you are in. the reality is mike johnson is not alone right now. the democrats -- not well-known right now. democrats want to make him well-known. they want to make his views well-known.

i think that is something that is a politics issue. he sort of has been trying to undercut that in his interviews by saying look, i have these deeply held beliefs, but i'm not making big proposals right now on these cultural issues. i'm focus on keeping the government open, funding the government, dealing with crises around the world. so he is trying to sort of jiu-jitsu's way from being the target. but i think it is going to be tough for him, given that there are these demands for cultural culture war among his rank-and-file. if you look at the amendments that have been filed in these appropriations bills, and a lot of them have nothing to do with actual spending. it is abortion policy, it is

climate policy at agencies. it is esg policy at agencies, they birthed the agencies. it is things that are policy-focused and culture-focused and if he can keep the focus on issues that have sort of 51% support, that's going to be easier for them to digest to the extent there are issues that are being at the forefront for democrats that are good for them like abortion bans, for example. the democrats think that help them mitigate their losses. one of the reasons why the house majority is so small is the red wave kind of crashed and burned and became sort of a red puddle. it got the majority, but you seen it is really hard to govern. the democrats kind of want to put the focus on some of these culture war issues where they

feel like they have the advantage. host: our guest reports for bloomberg, you can find his work on bloomberg.com. steven dennis, thank you for your time. later on in the program we will take a look at the biden administration efforts when it comes to overseeing and regulating artificial intelligence. joining us for that conversation, the center for growth and opportunity. new polling out showing presidt biden basics and headwind when it comes to reelection next year. with that in mind, we will show you the polls but ask you in the next half hour or 45 minutes if you support a bidenrump rematch in 2024. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independent, (202)48-8002. make those calls now and we will take them when washington journal continues.

announcer: next monday, watch c-span series in partnership with the library of congress, books that shaped america. which features or neal hurston's novel "their eyes were watching god" which explores life within the african-american community, race relations, gender role and email empowerment the book written in 1937 is considered a harlem renaissance classic and has been highly influential on both african-american women's literature. tiffany ruby patterson, professor of literature at vanderbilt university will join us to discuss the book. watch next monday at 9:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span now, or online at c-span.org. also, be sure to scan the qr code to listen to our companion podcast where you can learn more

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taking a look at five swing states and features the current president and the former president in nevada, showing that former president trump has a 10 point lead in nevada, 52 over 41. in georgia, a lead of six points for president trump 49% vs. president biden, 43%. going to pennsylvania, former president trump leading in the poll over mr. biden, 44%. arizona, 40 9%-40 4%. and then showing a lead for president biden, the only state of the swing states that the poll took, a 47% lead for joe biden, 45% for mr. trump. this story from the new york times goes on to say discontent halting with a majority of voters say mr. biden's policy of

personally hurt them. the survey also revealed the extent to which the multiracial and multi general coalition elected mr. biden is fraying. demographic group that backed mr. biden by landslide margins are normal -- now more closely contested as two thirds of the electorate sees the country moving in the wrong direction, deciding that voters over 30 favor mr. biden by only one percentage point. and his advantage at the top of mr. trump's edge in the rural region. when it comes to this idea of a rematch between president biden and former president trump, is that something you support or oppose? again, (202) 748-8000 for democrats. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents (202) 748-8002. let's hear from one of those states. this is barbara in pennsylvania, go ahead.

caller: i'm behind joe biden all the way, and i think that gaza is a little bit of a glitch, but he is fabulous, doing a great job. i'm just behind him and these polls are crazy. bye. host: why do you think they are crazy in your words? caller: because the people i know are all behind joe biden, and the things that i'm watching, it seems like the legacy news seems to be reporting -- i don't know where they are getting their polling from but what i call, i tell them i'm for joe biden. and the people i'm talking to right here in central pa are behind joe biden, so i don't understand it. host: that new york times poll of 3,662 registered voters. pennsylvania, one of those states. maryland, this is democrats line. caller: good morning and thanks for taking my call. i'm not for either one as a

whole because fast track to iraq and afghanistan and then all of a sudden, here we are with the bush cheney administration that has now gotten us to $33 trillion national debt. we are now trying to figure out do we want to keep this patronizing rhetoric that our politicians keep bringing to us? basically it is the hardware and software manufacturers, the material now being used in israel and ukraine. this is what keeps our economy going in the direction that it goes while our inner cities are imploding. these people are not looking out for the best interest of our countries, they never have. they look out for their own best interest and the people who come in from the back doors. that is kind of my feeling right now.

host: victoria and ohio, independent line. caller: i voted for biden before but is very hard for me to want to do so again. he says he is all about protecting our rights, lgbtq folks. myself being trained. he says he is trying to help out all over the place, but he hasn't helped anyone. along with that, now he's supporting israel in their genocide on gaza. and i can't really support that. even if the lesser of two evils is between joe biden and trump, my rights are being taken away in states that during the biden administration, i'm not sure what i'm supposed to expect from him in the next term.

host: arlene, virginia, republican line. caller: yes, sir, i am for trump 100% of the way. i believe that he is for israel and i believe that he is against abortion. he might have been at one point in his life for it but i believe that his murder of the unborn children. and the boardwalk, he was getting ready to set it up so they couldn't invade our country. host: the wall street journal takes a look at the year from the 2020 vote adding vulnerability for the picture of the current president and former president trump. when it comes to analyzing where former president trump stands, saying that his allies are called for other candidates as a show of party support. charges include the former

president attempting to overturn his 2020 election loss in georgia, mishandling of classified documents in florida and election interference for which he faces a federal trial in washington. mr. turnbull have to spend time in various court rooms a little deeper, complicating his pitch to voters. for example he faces a trial date of march 4, the day before super tuesday and the federal case in washington over charges that he tried to overturn the 2020 results. to that end, mr. trump also is expected by today in new york concerning his fraud case, evaluation of his various properties. that's one of the things that takes place today. let's hear from melody in maine, democrats line. caller: yes. if it comes to voting for either biden or trump, i probably won't be voting, but i do have a suggestion for democrats who can't stand the idea of trump beating biden which is you could change parties and vote in the

republican primary and then vote for whichever republican you think would be better than trump. host: why not cast a vote yourself if it is going to be down to these two men? caller: because i think they are both not very good. host: how so? caller: [laughter] good question. all you have to do is watch the news to learn how they are not good for the country. for example, the border when it comes divided and also his backing of israel. and when it comes to trump, his personality for one thing. i don't know. host: carolyn is next in georgia, republican line. caller: i am for trump because he's done a very good job and

also his tax plans that it would subside maybe in 2025 and also i think i should be looking at whether it would be trump or will it be harris? i believe harris would become our next president if biden becomes president. so i'm looking at trump against harris so not necessarily trump against biden because biden is quite feeble right now. host: what about the potential for the vice president to assume the position, with that change your level of support at all? caller: if harris becomes president? no. i'm republican all the way. i'm looking at the tax plans. i like the amount of wall that trump builds and if we continue to build that wall and get something done, i do believe in

trump and that is just the way it is for me. host: nbc reporting that i -- i will governor kim reynolds expected to endorse ron desantis for president at a rally today. that is according to sources of both governors. her endorsement is a major boost for the foreign governor going all in on iowa, launching his bid for the republican nomination in may. governor desantis currently trails former president donald trump by 27 points and the hawk i state according to the latest nbc and des moines register polls. he's tied for second place with nikki haley, catching up to desantis after he spent months pitching himself to gop voters at the party's main alternative. that endorsement expected to take place in des moines, iowa last year from hector. hector in florida, independent line.

caller: i think biden is doing a fantastic job. remember, trump puts us behind a trillion dollars in four years. i don't know where these lunatics are coming from that they are going to be voting for trump saying he did such a great job. i watch wall street and i see every week for the past year they've been saying a recession is coming, a recession is coming. but biden has been beating all the numbers. unemployment below 4%, the first in about 62 years. i mean, these are records. he rides five miles i think daily on his bicycle. i'd love to see trump on a bicycle. i don't think he could sit on it or maintain any balance. minus doing a fantastic job it is just that the news media this just not reporting all the great

things he has been doing. host: it was in pennsylvania just recently last month that president biden traveled there to give his perspective on matters of the economy, particularly what his administration is doing for it. here's president biden from last month. president biden: the unemployment rate has stayed below 4% for 20 straight months in a row. the longest stretch in 50 years. [applause] we've achieved a 70 year low on unemployment rate for women, we seen record low unemployment for african-americans and hispanic workers. not just a few people, this is everybody. by the way, the highest share of working age americans in the workforce in 20 years. inflation is coming down, down

60% since last summer. core inflation at the lowest level in two years and now we have the lowest rate of any g-7, any major investment company in the world. we are creating good jobs and communities across the country, including places that have been left behind for too long. factory shut down, towns were hollowed out and jobs move. how many small towns do you know in pennsylvania and all across the midwest where there was a factory for 30 or 40 years that people were able to work and have a good, decent salary and a middle-class life and all of a sudden a corporate american decided i'm going to find cheaper labor overseas? not anymore. host: maria from washington, d.c., the matchup of 2020 with

former president trump and president biden. would you support or oppose that? caller: good morning. i wish they didn't have to be a rematch, but i could not agree more with the previous caller. i am behind president biden all the way for the reasons that stated. and i also think that people need to start learning more about how their government works and people he important, a lot of the things that people are complaining about aren't legislative. when people say the border, the border, that is not something a president can fix. those are legislative things that happened in the senate, and that is equally important in our election. people focus so much on the front burner, but it is very important to get back the house with a solid majority and get

back to work. but yes, absolutely. there is no comparison at all between the two. one is doing a fantastic job, the other is a criminal. host: mike in north carolina, republican line. caller: if you allow me a couple minutes so i can talk to the democrat colors. there is a stark difference between biden and trump. trump can do a press conference without having hand notes wrote on everything, what to say, who to say it to and how to do it. a competency level biden does not know. another thing, if biden was to get in, people have got to understand he's not going to make it through and we are stuck with koala harris but the main thing is this open border. if you watch the mouth breeders on cnn and msnbc, they don't even show this 8000 people caravan coming up through mexico

and when they get to the border, they are talking about giving border security money. that is only for judges and people to bring factors. that is not to keep them from coming in. and the main attraction is if they do not give all these illegals free government money, welfare checks, housing, jobs, everything, that would stop them from coming in. that is going to be the destruction of -- host: are you there? caller: too many people in here. host: that is mike in north carolina at an event that took place over the weekend which you can see featuring republican candidates for the white house in 2024. oneof them former president trump. one of the topics he addressed was immigration policy. here is a portion from over the weekend. >> on day one i will restore the trump travel ban on entering from having people that like to blow up our shopping centers and kill our people and do lots of bad things.

entry from terror-plate countries. we will not allow people to come in and we will implement strong ideological screenings for all immigrants. we did that and it was unbelievably successful. it was done at the supreme court. they approved it and a lot of people are a little surprised but it was a great thing. i didn't talk about it, but i talked about it as soon as i left. i talked about it because it was an amazing thing we did. we were having a lot of problems like world trade center, like a lot of other problems. and we had no problem during that four year period because they know they cannot mess around. if you hate america, if you want to abolish israel, if you sympathize with jihadists, you don't want your country to do well, you don't want your country to be successful, you are just not going to get in. you are not getting in, you are not coming into our country.

when every policy from the border to energy from immigration to education, cricket joe biden always takes the side that helps america's enemies every time. the guy doesn't have a clue. he helps the enemies and now we know why. because joe biden is corrupt and he is incompetent and he is totally compromised. [applause] host: when it comes to another term for president biden, one of the people pushing back against that, david axelrod reporting that he set on sunday president joe biden needed to think carefully about whether he should continue to seek reelection. he made these comments in a series of tweets which you can find on x. he started by saying it is very late to change horses. a level happened in the next year that no one can predict and mr. biden says he has defied conventional wisdom before but this will send tremors of down for the party.

not bedwetting, but legitimate concerns. he goes on to say the greatest concern is that the biggest liability is the one thing he can't change. there is one thing that is sure, it only points in one direction. going on to say the president is proud of his accomplishments. mr. trump is a dangerous unhinged demagogue who brazenly ignores laws and should be disqualifying, but the state of miscalculation here are too dramatic to ignore and he finishes by saying only president biden can make this decision. he continues running to be the nominee of the democratic party and would need to decide whether that is why this, whether it is in his best interest for the countries. that is david axelrod making the series of tweets yesterday. the torrey in maryland, democrat line. -- victoria. caller: hello. i am not in favor of a rematch between biden and trump.

i think biden is a wonderful man, an honest man who served his country well and i think it is time for him to retire and spend time with his wife and grandchildren and two just kind of task in his success. i don't think that trump should be able to run, given all of the lawsuits and the criminal charges that he is facing. i know a man is innocent until proven guilty, but the rating is on the wall. he is a con man and he should not be able to run for presidency given that he masterminded an insurrection. host: illinois, republican line. caller: hello. i just had to say that -- rates are much lower under trump, i'm for trump.

and the gas prices were much lower. that's all i wanted to say. host: hal in michigan, independent line. caller: yeah, just wanted to join your program here with a good topic and one to comment on. it is an analogy for taking the proper tone of voice or tongue-in-cheek that i'm saying it. everybody in this country knows what the term junkyard dog is. everybody in this country has been to a junkyard at some point in time. you've got to have a junkyard dog with teeth, ms will be got with president trump. with joe biden we've got a dog with no teeth, he is also off. thank you, goodbye. host: on the line for democrats, harry in atlanta georgia. caller: i want to remind everyone to keep your eyes on georgia. as you know, we have a very

active trial going on here concerning our 45th president, and the dominoes are falling one by one. to all the people who support donald trump, i think you are going to find out that what people have been saying about his business dealings and his past in terms of doing things that are not quite legal are going to come to light. i also want to say that the republicans who selected mike johnson as the fifth speaker gave us a good laugh. he is the most inexperienced person to ever be speaker -- host: sorry to interrupt, but back to the presidential race in georgia according to the polls, this is trump leading by six points. what do you make of that? caller: i think that that is a

-- you give me one poll that says he is leading i give you another poll that says he is not leading. i think that a lot of these polls, they focus on certain demographics. me personally, i've never been polled about anything or anyone so who are these people that they are polling? and also if you recall, in the last election trump was ahead of host: ok. james in lakewood, florida, republican line. caller: good morning. i love your show. i appreciate hearing everybody's questions. my thing is this morning, i was a trumper. i voted for trump. i think when he was in there, the economy was very good. the jobs were very good. he got himself into a bad situation. at this point, biden, the

democrats voted for biden. now, you see a lot of them worried about what is going on in the nation. at this point, i really like the santos -- desantis. he is a great governor in florida. i think he would be a wonderful president. he has a lot of experience working with different kinds of organizations crime this and that. i am over trump. i'm going to vote for desantis. you know, we have got to have a change. trump has got too much on his shoulder. i am not knocking him. i am not saying nothing bad about him. at this point, i think him and biden both need to take a rest and go on vacation. that is my opinion from lakeland, florida. host: james giving his thoughts. if you are calling in, continue to do so. if you are on the, we ask you to stay on the lines for a bit.

to give us a snapshot on one of those states closely watched next year in the president of contest is paul steinhauser from fox news, a political reporter for the monitor in new hampshire. welcome back to the program. guest: always great to join you. we are 10 weeks away from the iowa caucuses. in new hampshire, we have our primary eight days later. host: give us the snapshot. if that is the case, what kind of traction the candidates are giving the state. guest: we are getting plenty of attention. iowa is getting more, they should. you are seeing plenty of candidates starting to pick up in the late summer and after labor day. today, we expect in iowa the governor there, kim reynolds, to endorse ron desantis at a rally later today in des moines. that shines a spotlight on our governor here, republican

governor chris sununu. he has said he will make an endorsement in the next race sometime before the new hampshire primary. we know it is not going to be donald trump. he is a vocal critic of trump. he just campaigned last week with nikki haley. the week before, he was with ryan santos -- ron desantis. that endorsement is something we are keeping our eyes on as campaigns make their way through new hampshire. host: how does the polling support for the former president compared to other republican contenders? guest: just like we have seen in iowa and south carolina and the national polls, former president trump is the overwhelming front runner in new hampshire, as well. it is no different. you have a 30 point lead in the latest surveys, which is very formidable. in second place in most of the latest surveys, former

ambassador nikki haley. for second place here, followed by chris christie, former new jersey governor. just like he did the first time in the 2016 cycle, he is spending pretty much all his time in new hampshire. ramaswamy, in the single digits. tim scott fading a bit because he is more on the train in iowa than in new hampshire. host: mr. steinhauser, it was reported last week--if you can inform our viewers about it -- president biden for his part will not be on the ballot in new hampshire. can you clarify that? guest: you are absolutely right, his campaign made an announcement. this goes back a year ago when the president came up with a new calendar for the democratic nomination schedule, which moved new hampshire in the democratic calendar out of its first place position. we have the first in the nation presidential primary for over a

century here, democratic national committee in february overwhelmingly endorsing that calendar. that has got a lot of people angry in new hampshire, as you can imagine. because of that, new hampshire is going to follow. we have state law have a century rolled -- old that says we have the first presidential primary. we will have a primary from the democratic side that is not sanctioned. because of that nonfiction primary, the president is not on the calendar. that equates trouble for him, especially with the latest contender who has jumped in to the race, dean phillips from minnesota. he is on the ballot and can cause some trouble and discomfort for biden in new hampshire. host: even for not appearing on it, does mr. biden joined trump's support in -- enjoy trump's support? guest: launched a week ago today

some top democrats in the state are reaching out with a grassroots effort, even though he is not on the ballot. there is a possibility because he is not on the ballot and what the democrats -- new hampshire is the leadoff primary and giving deposition to south carolina, there is hard feelings in new hampshire. the last thing joe biden right now is an embarrassment in new hampshire. there is a possibility that could happen in late january. host: there is another debate next week. you are going to travel to cover it. how does this bait get set apart from the others that have taken place? guest: debate number three in miami wednesday night. former president trump be there. time, he will be close by. he will be a town away, the debate is in miami and he will be holding a rally.

once again, the former president trying to steal the spotlight from his rivals for the nomination. a lot on the line for ron desantis, seeing his poll numbers dip in recent months as haley has started to surge. keith needs a strong performance. a lot of eyes will be on haley. tim scott, as well, i think he has a lot to prove in this debate as his campaign, some say is starting to flounder. host: what are you watching for in the days and weeks ahead, particularly when it comes to the state you cover? guest: the sununu endorsement when it comes later this month or december. should be interesting. the big question in new hampshire just like in iowa, how firm is the former president's support? we talk about these polls, he is way ahead in iowa and new hampshire. how strong is that support? surveys indicate it is very solid. if somebody else arises, will

some trump voters get attracted and move away from the former president? we have a lot of questions to go, only 10 weeks until voting starts. host: paul steinhauser, thanks for your time today. guest: thank you, pedro. host: if you want to call in and talk about this idea about a possible rematch between the current president joe biden and former president trump, and if you want to support or oppose that when it comes to 2024, you can call and let us know. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. you can text us at (202) 748-8003. you can always post on our social media sites, as well. leah is in the bronx, new york, independent line. go ahead. caller: hi. i would just like to point out, what made biden appealing for me to vote for him in the first

place was he said he was not going to run again. when biden announced he did an interview on msnbc and said he would only run for one term -- then, pass the torch. now, he ignores the fact he said that and it's going to run again anyway, making him a flat out liar. not as much of a liar as trump, but a power-hungry liar. yeah. that is all i wanted to say. host: because of that, that is what you are basing your level of support you have for him currently? caller: he was supposed to pass it on, yes. like, trump would have started through if he did --skirted through if he did. new yorkers probably would have ignored the whole thing and moved on, whoever won won because new york does not really have a hand in the presidential election. host: if that is the case, who

do you think president biden should pass the torch to? caller: well, i do not think the democrats are being fair at all. and holding open the primaries and just having anybody go. i know somebody else, i forget his name. i do not know much about him. the fact of the matter is, presidents should not -- the incumbent should not assume to get another term. it should not just automatically get doubled up like that. spread it out. give other people a chance. if it is for the same party, you have the same ideology, so what is wrong with passing it on to somebody else in the party with fresh minds, fresh ideas? like, i just do not get that. host: that is lee in new york. add your thoughts to the mix with the minutes we have. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans.

(202) 748-8002 for independents. text us at (202) 748-8003. democrats line from michigan, we will hear from dorothy about this idea of a matchup of the president and former president in 2024. good morning. caller: good morning. i am a registered democrat. however, i think maryann williams is pretty good. i have listened to her campaign in new hampshire. however, the people that think biden has done such a good job, they must enjoy paying the high price for gas. we still have empty grocery store shelves. bidenomics is not working, even though i am a democrat. host: why maryann williams?

what is it about her platform, for the beliefs she holds, is appealing to you? caller: she has a lot of joe biden's ways, i think. and being younger. i did listen to kennedy, also. i do not know about him. he would be ok. as for trump, i had much easier living with my traveling and my lifestyle then i do with biden. nikki haley would be a good choice, because she has foreign experience under trump. the people in florida, they seem to be happy with how desantis is running the state, i think. host: ok.

marianne williamson and robert kennedy have been on this program taking questions about their campaigns. if you want to see those interviews, go to our website c-span.org. in kentucky, republican line, we will hear from steve. caller: thanks for taking my call. here to voice support for president trump. i love what he did for the country when he was president. look at the policies under the democrats. i do not why -- i do not know why, but they seem to be wanting to destroy this country. look at all the cities filled with liberals and democrats, they are destroying the cities. the crime rate is out of control. it is unbelievable. go down the line, everything from energy policy to his border policy to foreign policy, the economy, everything under trump was better. in any way you measure it. president biden is bad for this country.

the democrats are bad for this country. all you have got to do is look at the results of the policies they support. host: ok. mike from ohio, independent line. caller: i am glad i am not the only one that thinks that guy from kentucky, he is right on. let's talk about the biden's and corruption. trump did such a good job he broke up all these personal, little deals everybody in washington had their angers and. trump gets back in and has hired half of washington, they think they are going to allow that to happen? it took them decades, destruction that has corrupt business dealings going on. biden is under investigation. why art talking about that? this is ridiculous. trump gets impeached for one phone call. we have bank records of the biden family and their corruption. 22 different shell companies to shuffle money around. are you kidding me? listen, trump probably will be

reelected. even if he is in a jail cell, i will vote for trump because he has helped uncover corruption in washington underneath our own eyes. wake up. host: michigan, democrats line. caller: hello, good morning. i am voting for biden. the worst crime i have ever seen in the history of my life -- i am 83 years old -- when trump had that mob in washington, january 6. that is the worst crime that ever happened in the united states. worseer than when i was born, and the state of mississippi. trump is a racist. trump is a mob leader. thank you. host: cbs news has put together

a poll taking look at a potential matchup between the current and former president. under the category of personal finances, probably because there is an ad blocking it -- they say that if president biden wins, 18% of polls said they would be financially off. 48% said they would be financially worse off. 34% said they would be the same. a pole saint former president trump wins, 45% would be financially better off. 42% financially worse off. 23% was about the same when it comes to that. when it comes to economic classes as they define it, they say it former president wins and if the current president wins, or -- 51% of those say the wealthy would benefit the most. 29% saying middle and working classes would benefit under joe biden versus 25% former

president trump. when it comes to treating those classes the same if biden wins, 20% of those polled said they would get treated the same. 24% said they would get treated the same under former president trump. that is the cvs -- cbs you go pole. to this larger idea matchup 2024 of the current and former president, joyce in atlanta, georgia, republican line. go ahead. you are next. caller: yes. we had four great, strong years with president trump's policy. it does not matter if you like the manner not. we had three years of america being destroyed. why? i do not understand why people do not look at the policies of what is happening. they keep talking about january 6. no one was ever charged with insurrection.

if it wasn't insurrection, they would have arrested trump immediately -- was insurrection, they would have arrested trump immediately. people need to wake up and realize what is happening. host: one more call from jessica, trenton, michigan, independent line. caller: good morning, so nice to be on with you. just considering biden's last four years, he has not brought anything to the table in terms of improving people's material conditions that would warrant them voting for biden. it is already hard enough having to get over the fact we would have to vote for someone that actively promotes the genocide of the palestinian people. it is another, he cannot do anything for student loans. he has not been able to do campaign promises regarding legalizing marijuana at the national level. he has not done anything that would warrant people voting for him in the last four years.

he has not followed on any of his campaign promises. it seems inconsistent to vote for someone that is not going to do what they say. host: jessica, last call on this topic. to all of you who were dissipated, thanks for doing so. it was the biden administration recently announcing efforts to give oversight on artificial intelligence technology. here to talk about what was announced and the administration's effort, as well as congresses is neil chilson, the senior research fellow, also served as the chief technologist at the federal trade commission. we will have that conversation when "washington journal" continues. ♪

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comes to artificial intelligence. guest: the center for growth and opportunity is a nonprofit research organization. we focus on three front topic areas. emigration, energy and technology and innovation. all of these areas we work in with the goal of unlocking, igniting the abundance, prosperity that can help everybody reach their full potential. when it comes to technology, we are optimistic about the future. we understand there are always challenges as new technologies get integrated into society. overall, we want policies that enable innovation to happen and a cultural environment that embraces innovation, rather than fears it. host: how is the organization funded? guest: the organization is funded by a wide range of individuals, foundations and other types of organizations. we work with a wide network of international network of

scholars, but the work is the scholars own. it is not cg owes work. host: i want to ask you about the federal trade commission, chief technologist. what does that mean? guest: at the federal trade commission, the chief technologist served a visiting professor. elevating a certain set of issues. often, it was a professor visiting from a university. elevating a certain set of issues the ftc might be concerned about. i worked on cryptocurrency issues. i worked on the economics of privacy. it is a focal point for the agency around the pacific -- the specific set of policy issues. different chief technologist have done things differently. it is not about running the technology of the agency. it with -- it is an outward facing role, thinking about the role of technology in society. host: during that time, was ai on the horizon as far as ways to

think about it? guest: absolutely. one of the things that is most interesting about this debate is that the ftc has a different -- has at different times called this set of issues different things. there was a big data research we did for a while, there is a lot of privacy work around this use of information in computing. one of the difficulties is that ai blends easily into general computing. it can be hard to draw a line between what is computers and what is ai. that is one of the big challenges for this executive order that came out and regulatory approaches. host: there are components to the order -- first and foremost, including two the biden administration, would require computing -- would require companies to notify -- that is broad. what is he getting at in that broadness? what are they focusing on? guest: that particular

requirement is one of the few mandates within the law -- sorry, within the executive order. it is aiming at the biggest of these new large language models or other types of neural networks. it applies only to maybe a few companies or models, but is really focused on these biggest models out of the concern that somehow, these are different than the smaller models. i do not know how much that is true. they are better in capacity and capability in some ways, but that is the theory behind having them report and check in with the government, notifying them they are doing this type of work. host: can you give me an example about those bigger models, at least for people to get their hands around it? guest: so, the models that we are talking about are trained on

massive amounts of data. so, that is the size the government is measuring. the end result of how big the model is, how much memory does it take up, how many pieces of processing doesn't represent? -- does it represent? these are the type chatgpt is. people have used chatgpt. that is one example of one of these foundational models that a company named openai developed. there is a lot of open foundation models used not just for chatbot's, but might be used for image generation or other applications. what these models are good at is recognizing patterns in massive amounts of data. given a prompt, a question, giving an answer that reflects that pattern of data that is analyzed. host: is the technology itself,

its use, can it be innocuous? can it be dangerous? how does the federal government pursue those things? guest: it is a difficult problem. these are computing tools. often when people say ai, you can replace computer there and it would more mean the same thing. we are talking big computers, obviously. i think the harms that might come from them are largely driven by the uses people put them to. like any powerful tool, i think we should look to, how are we going to ensure that people will use them responsibly without killing all the many possible, powerful benefits that could come from them? host: our guest with us to talk about this topic and ask him questions, (202) 748-8000 for those in the eastern time zones. (202) 748-8001 in the mountain and pacific time zone. if you want to text us, (202)

748-8003. a couple more things from the executive order, something called the national institute of standards and technology would set red team testing standards. what is that? guest: nest is an independent organization inside the department of commerce. it sets different standards on technology for the country. nest has done a lot of work in ai. they have framework for assessing ai and computational risk. this executive order charges them with coming up with a set of standards with how companies should test their models. red teaming is this idea have a group of people who are trying to break the model. that is what red teaming is. it is not the only tool that can ensure nai model is useful -- an ai model is useful and safe. the executive order charges

setting rules for this larger model. host: it is hard to boil this down in a couple of things. one of the elements of the executive order, the homeland security establishing an ai safety and security board to advise the government. guest: there is a lot of boards set up in the exec of order. the executive order is 100 pages long. it calls for dozens of agencies to do things. a lot of reports are setting up structures. there are different organizations that this executive order would set up within the government to advise other governmental bodies about how to use ai. it is a whole of government, kitchen sink approach to this issue in a way that i do not think is unprecedented in the history of u.s. technology regulations. host: you think it is the right approach? guest: i do not think it is the

right approach for a different -- for a bunch of different reasons. when you contrast this approach of the biden administration to the clinton approach to the internet, the clinton administration on the early internet, they came out with a set of principles in 1997 that said, we are going to let private industry lead. where government does intervene, it is going to be minimal and it is going to be focused on addressing harms. here, this is airy much a government first approach instead of a innovator first approach. i think that has the risk of stifling a lot of benefits we could get from artificial intelligence. host: if i am an innovator, i see these recommendations from the federal government. what is the typical response of someone specifically in the ai world, do you think? guest: there are going to be dozens of government actions taken here, so dozens of

reports. innovators are going to have a tough time keeping up with the activity the federal government is doing in this space. it will depend if you are working in health care or drug discovery, for working in transportation. the executive order has charges to all these different agencies that regulate these areas to do something about ai. i think the benefit is going to be sitting here waiting, what is the government going to be doing here? host: are they going to open their technology, particularly the results of the tests calls for? guest: there are calls to share -- has -- as you pointed out, there is calls to share results with the government. i think there are charges within the executive order about how government itself should use ai. both could be useful. i do not know whether there will be mandates that companies share their information with other parties, except sharing it with the government and hitting it to other parties that way.

host: let's hear from a viewer. this is eva in california, you are on. caller: i have a problem. i have a watch for three years, and it is not working. thank god i have extension warranty. i call and the worker who came said re-update the program and the problem was computed. it is working now. we laugh. i said, is that artificial intelligence? well, that is going to leave the consumers when we have problems like that, which we do not know. guest: it is interesting. there are so many applications. i use chatgpt with my dad to troubleshoot his lawnmower two

weeks ago. that was interesting. i think there are lots of applications in this space that will be direct to consumer. hopefully, another application might be in the consumer space that -- the dishwasher can point out what the problem is itself without you having to call somebody. host: it is ultimately going with information and how it is presented. one of the things i would think would be a concern is how much you trust the information. what are concerns there as far as the truthfulness of information being presented? guest: it is a big challenge. these models are trained on publicly available data, and maybe other sublimated -- supplemental data sets. they all use the internet. there is misinformation and direct lies in that. so, the ai companies are trying

really hard to figure out how they can make the results reliable and useful to consumers. i think that will ultimately be the test. do people find these things trustworthy? are they useful in day to day life, the business applications we need? to deliver that level of quality. but, it is a difficult, technical challenge. host: i want to play a bit of the vice president. she talked about the biden administration's approach and philosophy when it comes to this type of oversight. i want to get your response to it. [video clip] >> i believe history will show that this was the moment when we had the opportunity to lay the groundwork the future of ai. the urgency of this moment must then compel us to create a collective vision of what this future must be.

a future where ai is used in advanced human rights and human dignity. where privacy is protected, and people have equal access to opportunity. where we make our democracies stronger and our world safer. a future where ai is used to advance the public interest. that is the future president joe biden and i are building. host: the overarching philosophy, what do you think of it going in as far as the technology? guest: it is hard to disagree with anything in their. we do want technology that advances human prosperity, but also protects individual rights and liberty, that supports democracy. the question is, how do we get there? the executive order takes a specific path, which is we are

going to take every government agency charged with how to incorporate this technology into american lives and companies. that is very different than the approach we have taken to software thus far, which has very much been a bottom up. let's figure out how these technologies -- they are hard to predict how they are applied over time -- let's give people the tools, figure out how to use them and deal with problems as they come up. i do not disagree with the vision of what we want. the question is, how do we get there? host: mary from california, hello. caller: hi, i am hoping you can give us some examples and history of where the international community has come together to regulate a new technology. guest: that is a great question. mary, probably the most likely

ones are around nuclear weapons and some agreements around their. there are great differences between nuclear weapons and ai. nuclear weapons have one purpose, they are used to destroy. whereas, ai is a general-purpose technology that can be used to create many things. i think that is probably the last time -- or maybe the most salient example, of an international agreement. even there, those agreements are tense. they are not always followed by all the members. i think we have any niven -- and even challenge -- even bigger challenge in the ai space. much harder to regulate, much harder to enforce rules on this sort of thing. given that the u.s. is the lead in this technology, it is incumbent on us to figure out how to get a regulatory structure in place that does not oppress u.s. innovation and

allows international competitors to catch up or surpass us. host: from alexandria, virginia, stephen, hello. caller: hi, my question is this. why now? why is the federal government suddenly interested in this very broad technology? two put this into context, i have to tell you -- i am dating myself a bit. as i was coming through business school, we were amazed, frightened is a better word, for the technology of being able to scan your grocery items, which could be considered an early form of artificial intelligence. certainly, they would take that information and associate it with what we were purchasing and responding to. i remember that being a frightening thing and i refused

to work for a company that considered something like that. now, we accept that technology almost routinely. i just do not get why the government is suddenly waking up or saying, do not worry. america, we are going to be in control of this now. they are the last people i want to have in control of much of anything. host: thanks, stephen. guest: stephen, your point gets back to what i was saying earlier about the fact that ai and computing lead into each other. ai -- the term was coined in the 1950's. there has ai. there was a point where teaching computers to play chess was the cutting edge of ai, where having visual recognition of objects was cutting edge of ai. now, our cell phones do these

things. those were cutting edge ai technologies at a point. the reason why i think the government is interested in this right now has to do with chatgpt, honestly. that release of a technology to the public created so much enthusiasm, excitement and concern from people that were technologically skeptical in the first place. all of that energy has poured into this executive order. ultimately, it is a somewhat fearful approach about the future, which is surprising given the fact that we have ai as a continuing evolution of the application of computers to real problems over time. host: you talked about chatgpt. there is announcement expected today from elon musk, apparently he is entering the game. what do you think about companies bringing their own versions in and changing the space?

guest: what we are seeing is a rush of competition in this space. chatgpt broke the seal in a public facing way. a lot of companies have been doing these types of large language models, neural network training algorithms for a long time. i think everybody is rushing to see how they can apply it to their area. i think we are going to get a flood of information. i think we do not know ultimately how consumers are going to best use these or how companies are going to deploy them. it is like the early days of the personal computer. people were skeptical that would have anything other than a hobby affect. it helped transform how we do business and how we experience our personal lives. host: let's hear from eric in nevada, hello. caller: good morning. i love c-span. i have a question, if i might. what is the difference between specific artificial intelligence

and artificial general intelligence? the second is -- i know you were not happy with what the government might do with the presidential order. i think we got in the 1990's when internet companies, pretty much anything would go on their platform and they would not be responsible. now, we are trying to put that genie back in the bottle. if you can respond, i would love that. guest: to your first question, artificial general intelligence and artificial specific intelligence are application specific intelligence are two different terms that technologists use to describe the scope of what the model can do. the idea is that artificial general intelligence can answer different questions, can do a lot of things that would be more humanlike.

whereas a specific application or a specific model might be trained to do one thing such as generate images or diagnose breast cancer. that is the difference between those terms. we have a lot of examples of specific models. we have fewer examples, no real examples, of a artificial general intelligence right now. it is not clear that we can get there from the technology that we have now. if you chat with chatgpt, it is useful in a lot of different ways. to your second question, the model that we took on in the 1990's was that we would hold people responsible for the bad things they did online, not the tools they would use. that approach is not perfect, but what it did do was allow an explosion of innovation on the internet. it helped create the u.s. as the

technological force it is. that model of holding back people responsible for the bad things that they do, not the tools they use, i think is an appropriate one to be applied in the ai space. host: there is a viewer saying, because of artificial inlligence have to be programmed even if it is rent based on its own programming. science and policcan be manipulated. ai must be regulated strictly. the bigger fears of how people use this technology. guest: sure. i think the questioner has a good point, that tools can be designed to do bad things. i think the concerns with ai are less that and more they would be unintentionally used to do that. one of the things that is interesting about ai, it can see patterns and large amount of data. it can see these types of biases.

some of the same tools people are worried about as having bias outcomes can be used to investigate the outcomes of current decisions, which are not made by ai, to identify examples where there is bias or manipulation. so -- like everything, powerful tools can be good or evil -- can be used for good or evil. we have to write incentives in place. host: did ai change the game in 2024 and are there concerns their? guest: i testified to senate rules on this. the constraint on misinformation online is not content generation. it is easy to generate misinformation online. millions of people do it every day for free. it is not the generation of content that is the problem, it is the distribution. that is where if you have a coordinated misinformation campaign, all of your energy is focused on the distribution of the content, finding the right

reporter to talk to you, finding the right social media influencers to talk to to get that message out. it is not about the content generation. you can outsource that to a human for very cheap to create something that is fake. host: let's hear from mark in california. caller: good morning, thank you c-span and mr. chilson. i have a question. being a musician, an artist, ai, to me, it is threatening, to be quite honest. it can write lyrics faster and maybe better than i can. how could you tell the difference, you know? also, who do you represent? i did not get -- i tuned in late and i do not understand who it is you are representing. guest: i will start with the second.

i work for the center of growth and opportunity at utah state university, a nonprofit economic policy research think take. we do research on a bunch of different issues, all are aimed at how we drive and abundant, prosperous economy that led people reach their maximum potential. as for the effect on creators, i think you are right. these new tools are powerful. i can understand the threatening nature of them if you are used to doing things with older tools and i think we will see a boon of people creating content that formally was outside of their grasp. i think we will have a lot of casual content creators, the same way that we have a lot of casual photographers who use these superhigh quality cameras in their phones to take very good-looking pictures.

i am confident that the creator industry in the u.s. is smart enough, sharp enough and able to use these tools to take them in new directions. but, i understand that the transition is probably -- learning a new tool is hard. we need to think about how to make that easier. host: is there a role for self policing within the industry, for do some type of outside oversight -- to whatever degree you are comfortable with, is needed? host: i think there are actions being taken by some of the biggest companies around self policing and establishing industry standards around some of the various types of harms that might come up and testing that we might do. guest: i think there could -- there are absolutely a role for government in various applications of ai. when we are talking about

something like autonomous driving cars, we do need oversight in that space, but we have an agency that is charged with doing that. the application of ai or computing technology to this problem -- maybe it changes some things, but the ultimate goal is the same as the transportation industry, having safe, efficient vehicles. i think we have the tools we need to take these at a specific it -- an industry specific level. i do not think it makes sense to try to think about how to regulate ai at a high level. it is a vague concept. we need to get into the applications to understand the practical risks and harms. host: from illinois, this is chris. caller: first of all, thanks for taking my call. i would like to push you a bit on that previous comment you made. first of all, government has a very important role in the

fundamental research on these cutting edge technologies. usually, they are the first persons to put in on it. they have a lot of skin in the game. to say the government should just be pushed out for any kind of reason should be -- people should take a second look at that. the second thing is, i think especially because it is a new technology and we do not know much about it, we do not know the harms, we should have a police -- we should probably be a government entity, things we are learning now about the internet which we did not do earlier, we are regretting. i think we should learn from that and maybe take a better approach when it comes to ai. guest: so, i think it is a

totally fair point that the government has a powerful role in basic research and funding basically search, and has for a long time. the executive order does touch on that, actually. and, does encourage for certain types of research to go forward within -- under the scope of the executive order. i did not mean to pooh-pooh that role. the government has an important role as a purchaser and user of ai. the executive order touches out that -- touches on that. there could be a big concern when government uses information technology in spaces such as criminal justice, law enforcement and national security. i think it is appropriate to have oversight in those uses. host: from minnesota, brad is next. caller: good morning. i enjoy these type of conversations. a thought and a question is

that, i have an apple five phone. to program the theory, you have to talk to it and then it recognizes your voice. what my concerns are now is that after my siri understands me talking to my phone saying, siri, do whatever -- what i am wondering about -- can whoever siri is in the world, who is probably in the apple platform, and google, can they reverse it and start taking over my phone? in the sense that i am asking them to do something. now, can they use that against me and start opening up and using my voice per se into doing things i did not ask them to do? that is what my concern is with ai, that generating my voice and being able -- they will use it

against me. thank you. guest: thank you for the question. you are raising the concern around what we call biometric privacy. there is something unique about the information that makes up our physical characteristics. i think people are worried that tools that use that to make it more convenient to use a phone might be misused. i think a lot of the companies have policies in place that try to cabin the use of that data, that set out clearly how they are trying to use that data and general consumer protection agencies like the federal trade commission will hold those companies to those promises. on top of it not being very good business to upset or manipulate your customers, i do think that there is a federal agency and some state agencies that will hold companies to the premises -- promises to how they hold

those technologies. host: does the ftc have the space to enforce regulation? guest: it has what is -- it prevents deceptive and unfair acts and practices. this is on the consumer protection site. if a company tells you that it is doing something and do something else in a way that materially harms you, the ftc can bring an enforcement action against them and stop that. if a company causes harm to you that is unavoidable and not outweighed benefits to competition, the ftc can bring an unfair acts claim against that company. they have the ability to enforce against companies without there being a specific ai law in place. host: let's hear from robert from ohio. go ahead. caller: yes, sir. does mr. chilson have any

concern that high school and college students are using ai to cheat on their essays? guest: it is a great question. there are a lot of people worried about this. my nephew was recently accused of having done this. he is very frustrated that -- they used software to test it, none of the software is our reliable. he is frustrated he cannot prove to them he did not do it. i do think there will be a lot of false positives in this space. i do think we need to step back and ask, what is the point of teaching kids to write essays in the first place? if it is something that can be replaced in a way that is undetectable by teachers, is not doing the job of educating our kids. what we need to do was think about how would we prepare our kids to work and take advantage of these tools in the future? i remember when calculators were

banned in math classes. was that smart? i do not know. it does mean that once you get out in the real world, you may not be familiar with the tools that could amplify your ability to get things done. host: at this stage, what is the right amount of regulation? what is the best way forward in your mind, compared to what the biden administration is proposing? what would you like to see happen? guest: i would like to see congress step in to this game. part of the reason why we have this executive order is because the white house has given up on congress doing up in this -- doing anything in this space. i think congress should step into this game and set out a vision that is optimistic about what ai can accomplish that is also aware of whatever roles we passed here are not going to find the united emirates who

have developed a training model, or china. if we want to keep our global leadership in this space, we need to have an optimistic, bored inking vision about how this technology can be used, how we can unleash this technology for consumers and companies to use to make the u.s. a more productive place. host: the website for the center for growth and opportunity is cgo.org. neil chilson, thanks for your time today. guest: thank you. host: that is it for our program today. another addition of "washington journal" comes your way tomorrow morning at 7:00. see you then. ♪

♪ >> the house returns later at noon actor. members will consir several national park service bill including authorizing national monuments on t mall to commemorate the women's suffrage moment. the senate is back at 3:00 p.m. eastern. senators are expected to vote to advance president biden nomination. watch live coverage of t house on c-spa the senate on c-span c-span2 and you can watch all of our congressional coverage on c-span now or online at c-span.org. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy visit ncicap.org] >> this monday, watch c-span's series, in partnership with the library of congress, books that shape america. their eyes were watching god.

the story is set in central and southern florida during the jim crow era and explores life within the african american community. the book written in 1937 is considered a harlem renaissance classic and has been influential on both african americans and women's literature. tiffany ruben patterson will join us to discuss the book. watch books that shaped america next monday at 9:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span now, our free mobile video app or online at c-span.org. also be sure to scan the q.r. code to listen to our companion podcast where you can learn more about the authorize of the books featured. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government we are funded

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