♪ host: good morning. tuesday, november 7, election day 2023. the 2024 elections are about one

year away so we are asking if you've decided on who you are voting for next year, what's your biggest issue. and how are you feeling about your congressional choices. democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. you can text us at 202-748-8003. be sure to -- we are on social media, facebook.com/c-span and x and instagram. welcome to today's washington journal. we will start with the president who was in delaware yesterday. here is the washington examiner that says biden unveils 16.4 billion rail grant at amtrak in blue state. president biden unveiled more

than 16 billion in new grants from passenger rail projects that will benefit in amtrak well traveled by the commander-in-chief. the president speaking at the amtrak shop outlines how the grant would overhaul trains and infrastructure across rail projects across the northeast corridor. let's look at what he said yesterday in delaware. [video clip] >> and speed up along the northeast corridor. trying to get goods to market. for the community to work in the morning. it matters for folks trying to get home for dinner. it matters thousands people who ride the trains, it's like taking 500,000 automobiles off the road a day. it has phenomenal environmental positive impact.

as we continue to invest in rail across the country we will take more vehicles off the road. saving millions of barrels of oil a day. meanwhile our friends in congress are proposing two/amtrak's budget. trying to make train travel easier, faster, safer and more reliable, they are trying to make it slower, harder and less safe. you can make this stuff up. but that's ok. we are not going to let them stop the progress we are making. >> the former president also made news yesterday, the leading candidate on the republican side this is the new york times, it says a judge tries to do what few have accomplished, rain in trump. the first few hours of donald trump's time on the witness stand. he and the judge traded irritated facial expressions.

this is the first day of donald trump's testimony in manhattan. the judge presiding over the civil fraud case trying to do it hillary clinton, star-studded lineup and even mr. trump's own lawyers could not make mr. trump stop talking. it was an unusual up close showdown. a 74-year-old judge sat just a few feet away from the prickly smirking former president whose bluster and bravado helped propel him to the white house. that's the new york times and let's take a look at the former president who did speak to reporters after his testimony. [video clip] >> i think it went very well. this is a case that should've never been brought. a case that should be dismissed immediately. the court was a fraud in this

case. they had no idea what the numbers were. and it was 50 to 100 times. it's a terrible thing. taking days and days and weeks and weeks and then you look at the outside world. i have to be here for the most part but i also want to be here. this is a scam and a case that should've never been brought and a case -- everybody saw what happened today. everybody saw what happened with their star witness who admitted and told them what originally's -- what was originally said. he admitted he lied and he has no credibility whatsoever.

that's their only witness. everything we did was absolutely right. that were being sued and spending all this time and money and people all over the world. inflation and all the other problems i think it's a disgrace. when you look at the numbers, the poll numbers that came out from the new york times and cbs, the new york times was not so happy but people are sick and tired, i think it's very sad day for america. this was a case that should've never been brought and a case that should be immediately disgraced. >> that was yesterday and we are taking your calls on the 2024 election. we will start with doug in ohio, independent. >> good morning, how are you on this beautiful election day?

i am in pretty good shape myself. next year i will be voting for joe biden. he's done a great job with the economy, with the job situation. he supports unions. these republicans are just crazy right now. i'm just telling you right now, biden is doing a great job in the economy is doing great. back in 2008, i'm paying three dollars now. i'm telling you right now biden is doing a great job and there's 8 million other democrats and independents who voted for biden in the last election, thank you very much. >> justin in amarillo, texas, good morning.

>> i'm good to be voting for joe biden next year. like the last caller. these republicans are just crazy right now. and i think that joe will do a good job. >> on the republican line in california, earl good morning. >> i would like to dispel a couple of misconceptions about former president trump. as a businessman he started -- as someone to start a lot of companies myself. when you start a company like

donald trump did you form an llc to wrap around each company. when you end up with 100 companies and three of them end up going bankrupt. that's only three out of 100. all you're left with is working on the clock. i used to be a democrat. you can put that to bed. there's one other point. you know i'm getting old. >> so who are you voting for earl? caller: by the way, i raised $55,000 for obama. if i wanted him to run a third term i would've done it again. the first time that's what i raised.

i will vote for donald trump. i appreciate being able to speak to you. host: let's take a look at facebook. jose simply says -- for president. dr. cornell west. scott says easy one, and nikki haley would be my first choice but if trump gets the nomination which it looks like. the democrats, i will vote for him again. there is a social media ad from a prodi santos super pac called never back -- pro ron desantis super pac called never back down. >> do you believe it advances u.s. interests to provide food, jobs, homes to the people of the west bank and gaza. >> we need to do whatever we can to protect the region. regardless of where they are and what country they are in.

that's not the role of the u.s. to do that. any time that we can help mankind. that is not the role of the u.s. to do that. >> that was from a pro ron desantis pack. here's what pull it fact said about that. nikki haley argues in support of bringing back the refugees to america. that has been rated false by political fact it says nikki haley did not say she wants the u.s. to take in gaza refugees as that santos pack claims. during a cnn interview nikki haley was asked whether the u.s. and other countries should help palestinians displaced by the israel hamas war. the u.s. should care about innocent civilians but added arab countries were unwilling to take them. she did not call for allowing refugees from gaza into the u.s.. let's take a look at the response from a super pac supporting nikki haley about

those attacks from ron desantis. [video clip] >> he is losing his mind. now he is throwing money at -- mud at nikki haley. >> nikki haley has been clear other arab countries in the middle east should be the ones taking in palestinians. >> nikki haley warned the united nations about hamas's threat to israel. >> finish them, they should have hell to pay for what they've done. guest: we will go back -- host: we will go back to your calls now. myrtle beach, south carolina. independent. caller: thank you for taking my call. we should be hearing this trial, we should be able to listen to the testimony.

trump is going to put on a great defense monday. host: talking about the fraud trial in new york happening right now. caller: yes. everything is done behind closed doors. we still don't have the tapes from mar-a-lago. this is done behind closed doors and when you hear what goes on through the press, what you really don't know, we just heard the judge told trump he was talking too much. but we put this out in the open so people would know and understand. host: i'm curious as to who you are going to vote for. >> i am get a vote for trump. not because it's been so horrific and so bad, he deserves

a chance, he's been called everything. it's just horrible. >> so you being in south carolina you've got nikki haley, you've got mr. scott, what are your thoughts on those two. caller: both of them would be great in the cabinet. tim scott is a great senator. i've got no problems with either one of them. if something happens to trump i would vote for nikki haley. or i would vote for either one of them. if something happens to trump either one of them would be great. that's where i stand. i am sick of all this nonsense. everything with trump, terrible. and then attacking the white house.

defaming the statue across the street there. no one was locked up. host: let's talk to stephen calling from lexington, kentucky. good morning. caller: thank you for having me. i am as liberal as they come. but i am a millennial. i'm younger than most callers. the caller said joe biden is doing great for us, i don't feel it. i don't feel it. i am 34. so i guess i'm a geriatric millennial and so i don't feel it. student loans, no love there. the handling of the current situation in the middle east there. he's trying with the

environment, struggling. it's all the promises he's making are just falling through -- just not being lifted, supported, he is just not what he said he was going to do. i am not in a vote for trump, i'm not in a vote for biden at the moment. i guess i'm one of those undecided voters. i feel like he is just giving everybody, all the boomers, all these older citizens these great benefits but everybody like me and younger are just struggling. the statistic came out that older generations carry over 50% of all the wealth. like what is going on? i don't think i'm to vote for joe biden. host: this is, we are going to take a pause and talk to a reporter reid wilson who is joining us from fluoro's

newsprint welcome to the program. guest: good morning. host: talking about election day 2023 there are several issues that are out there, one being that ohio voters will be deciding issue one. can you tell us about the importance of that. guest: it is a proposed constitutional amendment to insert a right to reproductive freedom including abortion rights into the state constitution ohio is a red state. republican governor and legislature who have passed magister -- measures that would restrict abortion rights. they collected close to 900,000 signatures to qualify this proposed constitutional amendment for the ballot which goes before voters today and in the polls that have been taken shows this will likely pass.

this thing is pretty popular as it stands. even the pro-abortion -- antiabortion rights side would say they are probably entering today -- >> what would that tell us if it does pass in the larger sense? guest: abortion rights have been on the ballot in five or six states since the supreme court overturned roe v. wade a couple years ago and in every single case the pro-abortion rights side of the question has one. that includes a couple of antiabortion rights measures in one a more liberal bastions of america that failed by several margins. the antiabortion side -- the pro-abortion side winning in california and michigan which is an actual swing stayed on the presidential level. you are also seeing the democrats running today in

places like the virginia legislative elections, talking about abortion rights as a key issue in their platforms here. it reminds me of a decade ago democrats were talking about republicans wanting to kill social security and medicare in their campaign. this is what they think is their next silver bullet. whether or not it's true, it certainly helps that a pro-abortion rights candidate has over performed in most cases. in the last couple of years, that's why democrats did so well in the midterms and 2022 and now they hope it will help them in 2023 even in a state like kentucky which is not exactly a liberal bastion. >> let's talk about kentucky because there is that governor's race. what are the polls showing on that race and what could the

outcomes indicate about the country as a whole. >> it won't surprise you a lot of people don't spend a lot of money on polling in a lot of governor off your governors races. there were a couple over the long term that showed governor andy beshear leading the attorney general by a huge margin. in the last couple of weeks though the race has seriously narrowed and that's because a lot of republican voters or i would say trump voters really are coming home to daniel cameron, they are deciding to vote for their public and candidate especially after trump held a couple of rallies for cameron last night and he's been publicly supportive of him. so this race will be pretty close. the governor only winning four years ago by 4/10 of a percentage point. he ousted a sitting republican governor. now he's running for reelection

in what will be a close race. kentucky is an interesting -- it is in ancestral he democratic state. it has a long history of activism and there are still counties in eastern kentucky were 80% of the registered voters or democrats. donald trump got 80% of the vote. they registered 30 or 40 years ago and never bothered to change. andy beshear is a unique character and kentucky also has a long history of electing democratic governors. it's been more than a century since a republican governor in kentucky winning reelection including the guy that andy beshear beat four years ago. >> mississippi also has a governors race. what are the big issues there. running against the public service commissioner we might recognize, he is a cousin of

elvis which apparently goes a long way in mississippi. this is the one race in america where they are not talking about abortion. so this race, the conversation has been a lot around medicaid expansion which he favors and reeves opposes. rural hospitals have been struggling in mississippi as well as other states across the country and the real sort of paid messaging here is one of the nastiest campaigns i've ever seen. the two sides are accusing each other of corruption and taking bribes and really sort of underhanded stuff. let's put it this way these two are not going to sit down for a cup of coffee after the election and break bread. >> moving to virginia next there are 40 state senate districts and all 100 house of delegates districts are up for election

paid what you watching there? guest: a couple of races and even around fredericksburg which is in the center of the state, in and around northern virginia there is still a swing area, allowed in and foggier county. and further south near and south of richmond, these are -- virginia is one of only two states in america with a divided legislature. republicans control the house of delegates, democrats control the state senate and both by very narrow margins. it is possible by the end -- we won't know tonight, a don't accounted that quick but it's possible by the end of the count, crowds will control both chambers. , republicans control both or we could just have a split decision. governor youngkin has put a lot of his own political capital behind this prayed it would make it easier for him if the

legislature is entirely republican and if he is able to win a legislature in a purple state, a leaning blue state. we may see a race for the white house. youngkin made jump in and say he is the guy who can change a blue state into a purple state. i don't really think it would actually change the dynamic for the republican nomination for president but if he has a good night he may -- >> any other races you are watching, whether it's 2024. >> i would not say a bellwether but i will point out there is a question in ohio about marijuana , recreational purposes. ohio would be the 25th state and then this a really increase energy initiative where a group of supporters are trying to

effectively buy the assets of power generators. the private companies don't like that and have spent $35 million or so in states like maine that is a lot of money. that is a really interesting sort of off-the-wall ballot initiative. usually corporations using the initiative to try and get what they want. now speaking to corporations that have had to sip and millions to block what would put them out of business. i am watching that one because it is expensive. >> reid wilson, founder and editor-in-chief there on the web. thanks for joining us. we will go back to your calls this morning about this 2024 election and your call -- thoughts there. republican in louisiana. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call.

i am for trump all the way and if you will permit me i would like to make a point. i am holding in front of me the latest aarp bulletin which is a special report. some people in their 80's and 90's stay sharp, retain their memories, youthful energy. senior citizens are getting crushed in the economy and when it is referred to -- and i'm looking at the current president is approaching 80. a man who talks to you in that capacity, it is sad is the only word. but living into your 80's or 90's and so on, your quality of life with inflation is greatly diminished. retired people are really suffering.

long-term health care, homeowners insurance, skyrocketing. i am for trump all the way. thank you very much for taking my call. >> let's go to greer, south carolina. hello. caller: gouda morning. i want to apologize for the rasping this of my voice. i wanted to address some of the earlier people who were touting the accomplishments, quote unquote of joe biden. i have to say are you living in lala land or are you following the yellow brick road to the emerald city of oz. what do you base all of this on. the previous caller just talked about senior citizens and it's

been a nightmare. for the last three years. since ted cruz is not running, my vote would probably be for nikki haley, although i think possibly that would take away from somebody's vote who would oppose joe biden. so i'm kind of on the fence right now. nikki haley would be at the top of my list. so thank you very much. >> we will check in with social media, diane on facebook says there is only one viable candidate. the others will be tied up in court. and on ask, he set -- robert says i'm going to write in bernie sanders. robert on ask says in 2024 but

seriously my vote for president in order of preference, andrew yang, marianne williamson, nikki haley and then. thank you for your vote. danny is calling us from michigan, independent line. >> i support dr. shiva, the inventor of --, independent candidate. absolutely. someone who is smart and knows a lot of things. came from humble beginnings and is an independent so he is not bought and paid for. and is not a fake hero like trump is a fake folk hero to people who think he is raging against the system, but trumpeters, he is operation warp speed, the vaccine, it really is trump your anti-establishment guy and rf kennedy, he is not

antiestablishment either. dr. shiva is calling out all of the snakes. host: let's take a look at governor kim reynolds, governor of iola. this happened yesterday. she attended a rally in des moines, iowa and praised governor desantis is record and endorsed him. take a look. [video clip] >> one of the most effective leaders i have ever seen. this is a man who when a hurricane hit his state, he cut through red tape and built a bridge in a matter of days. i am a governor who has dealt with disaster, that is incredible. not only can he be strategic and have a plan together he knows how to execute it and at a time when the world is spinning out of control, that is what we should be looking for in a president. [applause]

>> someone who gets results, who devotes every single ounce of their energy to make our lives better. someone who is honest and you actually knows what it's like. someone that knows when life begins and things get -- and it's a beautiful thing. [applause] >> someone who calls out our moral decline for what it is, who looks to the future and not the past. someone who most importantly can win. and that person is ron desantis. [applause] >> and it is why i am so proud to stand here tonight and give him my full support and

endorsement for president of the united states of america. [applause] host: let's go back to the calls now. betty in pennsylvania, democrat. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. host: what do you think about 2024. >> i think if americans care about their children and their grandchildren and their future and the state of our country, they should vote for president biden. he is a man of faith, compassion. he has done so much for americans. he is there when americans are in trouble. i just don't understand republicans thinking. sometimes i think if putin was on the republican ticket they would all check for him against president biden just because he is so -- he so wants a

republican, but especially trump i just don't understand it. i would like to ask him what has he done for you when there is shootings and killings and danger, does he show up, no. all he cares about is his power and it is just frightening to think these people, trump is my man. they know nothing. he makes fun of voters that come to his rallies. because -- i don't know why he does. he thinks he is so much better but he just does not care. i wish they would all come to their senses and see what he would do to our country, on the military he does not care about our military. the guys that are trying to take care of us. his own staff. how many people in his staff have just quit because they

tried to help him, they tried to keep him in check and he just goes off the rails and it is just crazy. i wish they would all come to their senses and as far as the age goes he -- president biden is only three years older. this age does not matter. the mentality of these people, of these two candidates matter and president biden, he is just such a caring man. i wish people would come to their senses. host: here is the washington -- the wall street journal with this headline. the 2024 election rematch americans are dreading looks likely. one year before by -- voting, they appear to be on a collision course. the article says biden, of the nations oldest president is poised to reclaim the party's nomination. he is dogged with questions

about his age, frustration over his handling of the economy and anxiety about two wars. trump has a comfortable lead as he seeks there bob can nomination. even as many moderate and independent voters are repelled by his repeated efforts to overturn the 2020 election results and the many criminal indictments he faces. that's the wall street journal. rita is next in birmingham, alabama. >> i just want to say that after having been a practicing republican for many years that i am going to vote for biden. he is doing incredible things in our economy. i don't understand what we want to continue to encourage and try to put more of a man with an agenda that's can a break our country. trump is not doing anything

really for us. he did not do anything when he was in office. he's giving our secrets to other countries and he really just seems like he is about himself. it's no longer for the people. the program is just not there. i am not seeing it. i do believe biden has improved the economy and if people would just stop being so either republican or democrat and came together to do the job that we sent them there to do, i believe we could be a better country. thinking about our kids and our grandkids. host: i want to ask since you are a republican who did you vote for in 2020. caller: no one is thinking about the veterans or anyone. it is ridiculous.

so my -- i -- in this election i voted republican but 2024 i'm going for biden. he does more for this country than the one year that trump was in office, biden has made strides to overcome all of that. >> got it rita. let's go to james in macon, georgia. >> good morning. you know, i feel relieved right now for alabama. we just heard rita, a democrat that's doing a great job. you know you made my day. i don't know what else to say.

i'm going to vote for biden because of the fact he has accomplished a lot of things to get us out of the rut we were in when trump walked out of office. and now he is trying to run again to keep them going from jail -- from going to jail. he's trying to be in office to keep from going to jail. it is shocking. you have a man who has helped this country grow with the fewer percent -- 4% increase. some of the things are highlighted -- higher, and the gas that went down. we have a 4% increase. trump said he would get a 3% increase. but he couldn't even get 2%. i'm just shocked at some of you

folks that are looking like i'm just in a vote republican or democrat because of the fact. the fact is this, we need this country, we need democracy. we don't have democracy. we are going to have chaos in this country and it's going to be just as wild as what's going on in the middle east. i'm telling you all right now use your heads, stop playing around with this because this is for our children. i have a grandkid right now seven months, i am 67. i am 67, i am a retired firefighter. i've worked 30 years on the fire department. now i work for the. look, we have grandkids now.

we have to leave this country to somebody. >> we've got that point. sharon in delaware. good morning. >> i had to control myself with all of the laughter i had here going on. just listening to the previous callers. what has biden done for our country? we are not safe. we have 68 million illegal immigrants in our country that nobody knows anything about or where they are. 85,000 missing kids that have come over this border. i'm voting for trump and if everybody takes a look at each individual case against him, anybody can bring a court case but if you take a look for example just in new york they are valuing in florida at $18 million. i can get 15 people together and we can come up with that money and buy it. it is insanity. take a look at what biden has done for the past three years.

i don't understand where these people are coming from. this country is in shambles and if he was such a caring man we wouldn't have 13 dead soldiers that he says nothing about, never mentions them at his state of the union addresses. he is not a caring man, he is evil and he started out from the gate lying to the american people. i know nothing about my sons business. they're probably listening to cnn or msnbc and not getting the full story of what the biden family is all about and it is shocking. trump is not perfect, but we ran -- we are in a heck of a lot better position as a country and as a world with this guy. if everybody cares about their kids so much, take a look at what's going on with our kids in school. host: let's take a look at former president trump who was at a freedom summit last weekend

talking about immigration policy in the war in israel. [video clip] >> on day one i will restore the trump travel ban on entering from having people like to blow up our shopping centers and kill our people and do lots of bad things, entry from their plague countries. we will not allow people to come in and we will implement strong ideological screening. we did that and it was unbelievably successful. it was done at the supreme court. they approved it and a lot of people were surprised. again we had no problem. i talked about it as soon i left. i talked about it because it was an amazing thing we did. we were having a lot of problems like world trade center, like a lot of other problems and we had no problems during those four years. we had it tight. if you hate america, if you want

to abolish israel, if you sympathize with jihadists and you don't want your country to do well, you don't want your country to be successful, you are just not going to get it, you are not getting in. on every policy from the war on energy to in the -- immigration, crooked joe biden always takes the side that helps america's enemies every time. the guy does not have a clue. he helps the enemies and now we know why. because joe biden is corrupt and incompetent and is totally compromised. [applause] host: that was from last weekend and we will check in on our social media posts. here is greg on facebook who says year from today a lot can happen. alfred says absolutely y vote goes to joe biden the

president who created a high skilled lifetime retirement jobs and has been fighting donald trump's inflation. president that is bringing us cheaper cleaner energy. president biden sees rebuilding america bridges, ras, cleaner drinking water, affordable health care that keeps gettinbetter by the day. and sander on facebook says i consider it a right and obligation to vote i cannot vote for either biden or trump in odonscience. i agree with trump's policy but he is divisive and in egomaniac. i can only hope another republican is the nominee. kevin is next. illinois, good morning. >> good morning. i just want to sam voting for joe biden. i'm a member of the carpenters union and in my lifetime i've never seen a champion of unions

as i have in president biden. he passed the inflation reduction act that will save millions of dollars for senior citizens and insulin. and the biden harris administration is also had the chips and science act that brings -- incentive for companies to bring chips and corporations here in america. debts versus the other side of the republican candidate donald trump who has 97 indictments already. and summoned a mob on january 6, it's not a coincidence the timing was when the votes would be read. i'm voting for joe biden. host: we want to talk to lula

next in richmond, virginia. caller: good morning. i won't be voting for trump or biden at all. if he is so caring then how come there over 4000 children dead in palestine and over 10,000 people that are gone. they won't call for a cease-fire. helping the over 300,000 people -- also i wanted to say to the person who said they were a geriatric millennial. being a liberal is not good enough. i will be voting for the party of socialism and liberation. they discuss how we have over 800 military bases worldwide and over $150 billion on israel.

i can't vote for that either way. in november we remember, free palestine. host: about that, here is nbc news.com that says this. quote i will never vote biden. some americans and a key swing state feel betrayed by the president. they say their support was critical to biden winning michigann 2020 have warned they won't back him again. and gina is in mississippi, republican. caller: good morning. it's just amazing to think i hear on the show every day, a longtime listener -- hello? host: go ahead. we are here. caller: i didn't know i lost you.

i'd like to respond to the 34-year-old young man who said he's a liberal who said everything that's being done for the senior citizens and not him. young man you still have a long way to work. you need to keep working like we are -- like we all did and we paid in and now we are getting -- we are retired and getting our benefits. so young people today seem to think that they should be as advanced as their parents were their entire life. i'd like to say that i'm going to vote for trump and it is pretty obvious that he is going to be in the primaries, but the people that call in and try to convince the rest of us that things are better now than when trump was in office are not paying attention or living off

the government or somebody else. or you have food stamps or something like that. this is what we are living in now. you democrats you keep bashing us republicans every day. you keep calling us snobs snarling at us. you keep talking about donald trump and coming after him and that is the very reason we are going to vote for him. pretty much nothing else matters as much as that because he has been lied on and destroyed by the liberal media and the democrats. so keep on going, the more you do it the more we are determined to vote for him. you people are the ones who better wake up. host: here is karen who says nikki haley is my choice. while not perfecthe is a lot

better for the country than biden and trump. and aaron says voting for biden again and hoping to flip the house back to a functional democratic majority, restore sanity after the last 10 months of gop dysfunction and chaos and carolyn says absolutely i am not even watching any of the republican debates and have intention of watching the presidential debate. i have made up my mind. and so has mfaly. we are all voting for president trump. we know what he can and has done for us and our country. he works for the american citizens. trump is america first. tommy in georgia, democrats. host: i think the republicans are delusional. the economy grows at 4%. a full growth in 10 years.

we have one point trillion dollar reduction in debt and you have a republican saying it was great under trump. he put $8 trillion in debt saying he was great. he got a different infrastructure bill passed the whole time he was in office. the only thing trump did to anybody was he gave it to trillion dollar tax cut to the richest americans on this planet and it's just crazy that republicans did all of this lying and tried to tell people we voted for trump, everything against him his lies. our borders are being overrun. if it wasn't for immigration our economy would be in the toilet. those people don't even pay income taxes. they pay taxes on everything they find but they don't get the income tax return. you better learn something about economics.

you are way out of left field. we got a lead to the future. every republican president they love the past. only a democratic president looks to the future and you can look. george w. bush. >> oakdale, louisiana. james, go ahead. >> i finally figured out who you remind me of, elizabeth taylor. >> i hope a young elizabeth taylor. >> marianne williamson represent spirituality, not religion. thank you. >> edward's in cedar rapids, iowa. good morning. >> good morning. pleasure to see you again.

it is voting day and i'm on my way out and will be placing my vote for donald trump. his policies are far better. i grew up in southwest pennsylvania and i've spent a good bit of time in joe biden's old stomping grounds. he is as corrupt as corrupt can get. there is no way around it. you have a great day. host: are there any other republicans that you like? caller: yes but i don't think they will get past the primary. i would much rather tim scott, i think you would make a great vice president. same with nikki haley. but it looks like trump will be our candidate and that's where my vote is going to go. host: let's talk to lucretia in

cocoa, florida. democrat. >> thank you for taking my call. these republicans say everything bad about the democrats. you hear the democrats saying things about republicans. when i go around, i get along with everybody until they find out i'm a democrat. they don't want anything to do with me. just because i am a democrat. i tell people i am a democrat before there was -- you all want trump as the president. he wants to get rid of the constitution, he messes with nato and other things, he killed 650,000 during the covid. our republican governor we ended up with the most dying from

covid because he did not want to enforce the rules and now he's got it where books are banned and a teacher can get arrested, doctors can get arrested is that the life we all want to live? i do not think so. biden at least if nothing else has brought manufacturing back from when nixon opened the door years ago. thank you. >> mentioning governor ron desantis there in florida. the nikki haley ron desantis feud will play out in real time on next week's debate stage. a reminder that is happening in miami on wednesday, the two have been previewing the attack lines they might deliver on the debate stage and interviews. some speeches and ads as they seek to distinguish themselves as the republican candidate who would be the best alternative to former president trump.

desantis has accused haley of having wanted to roll out the red carpet to china as governor in an effort to undercut foreign policy while haley has painted the florida governors increase attention on her as a desperate acts of a stalling campaign. james is an independent in louisiana. good morning. >> i don't know how to put this but it depends on what your viewpoint is and the fact we choose or how we see them. here are my facts. when mr. trump was first elected to office he had no experience, he refused -- to serve our country. when he took office the economy was in the longest recovery in the history of our country.

when he left office, we are going into a recession. ms. haley, whom i admire very much i don't seem that the republicans currently where the party stands i don't think she can control them even though she is saying some wonderful things and has great experience. at the airport when he came to greet her. those statesmanlike qualities -- the lack of statesmanship represented in the republican party these days, we have a president who's about to die unfortunately. that man after they left office the nation still consulted. if dignitaries die they want him there at their ceremony.

the heroes we have had in the past and they don't want mr. trump anywhere near their ceremony. just look at where we are going. >> james let's talk to frank next in washington, d.c.. democrats. caller: thank you for taking my call. i've listened to many of the people who have called in. the one gentleman early on spoke about economics, he's really hit the nail on the head and specifically with the way the country is going, the republicans what they basically been focusing on is getting everyone very patriotic, distracting people and why is that? the reason is patriotism costs nothing. i'm an immigrant who came in to

the u.s. in 1965 and as a result i learned the basics of economics and growing up basically if you invest in yourself, etc. 20% a year you will have good money if you are planning. what do they have to invest, nothing. so what is the republican party been selling. patriotism. it does not cost anything. being patriotic you are going all out and that to their mind is a lot more than 20% that you should be investing for your future and retirement. that is the big crux. people are letting their emotions drive their decisions in terms of voting but in reality the gentleman that spoke

about the economic situation which was really to the point and very smart of him, these are being driven specifically by numbercrunching and a lot of people don't have the wherewithal in terms of the ability to realize that but also economically, it is what has been sold because the donald has basically written on his wave of the apprentice and being patriotic is a heck of a lot more powerful but at the end of the day people don't have much in their we are out of time for the segment. but coming in next on washington journal, discussing challenges facing new speaker mike johnson with another government funding deadline looming. and key disagreements with the senate on israel and ukrainian aid.

and jacob where discusses the myriad homeland security threats facing the u.s. from the border and escalating tensions in the middle east to the threat of homegrown terrorism. we will be right back. ♪ >> c-span campaign 2024 coverages were front row seat to the presidential elections. watch as we follow candidate on the campaign trail with meeting greeks, speeches and more as you make up your own mind. campaign 2024 on c-span network, c-span now, or anytime online at c-span.org. c-span, your unfilted view of politics.

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c-span.org/podcast. washington journal continues. host: welcome back. we are joined now by paul kane, a senior congressional reporter and columnist for the washington post. guest: thank you, happy to be here. host: we are 10 days away from a possible government shutdown. where are the appropriations bills? guest: they are slowly, slowly, slowly kind of but surely making their way through the house and the senate. they are nowhere near complete. you've got a couple in each chamber that have passed. these are not the biggest. the defense department bill, there is a lot of work left to do which means we have to do that thing that insiders call a cr. the continuing resolution, the stopgap funding bill that lets

government continue to stay open. agencies can work off of last year's budget as congress continues to do the stuff that it always puns into the fall and winter. that is, they should have finished a month and a few days ago. september 30 is the statutory deadline. i think they've only done that one time in the history of the law that was passed in the 70's. they need time and now we are into a fight about how to buy time, have to pass that cr. host: this is what i wanted to ask you because politico is reporting speaker mike johnson slows piecemeal stopgap funding and he says the latter idea was pitched at thursday morning's meeting. what is the laddered approach? guest: there is a corner of the house republican conference, a little sect that takes what is

supposed to be something that is simple and always complicates it. it is like one of those batman tv shows where they don't just try to kill batman and robin, they come up with the most complex possible idea until he escapes. so this laddered idea is there's twelve bills that fund the various parts of the federal government, and the idea is the continuing resolution would keep them open, but the easiest ones like the legislative branch, military construction, those are very popular bills, one funding congress itself and one funding military project back home. bills like that would have the shortest amount of runway, whether it is five weeks or six weeks. the more complex bills would get a 10 week or more stretch.

a bill like labor, health and human services with more to security which is very contentious, those would get even more time. it's really, really complicated. normally you just say government agencies will stay open for another five weeks or six weeks or two months as we continue to do these aims. everybody gets treated the same and then they work on these things. that's the way it is normally done. this corner of the house republican conference, they want to make it really complicated. host: but why, what do they see as the benefit of that approach? guest: they see the benefit that you can probably work on a few things, the easiest things first and they would actually get a full year of funding that would come out of it. and they realize that these other bills are contentious and

will take more time and they also see it as a longer sort of hostage-taking process where they will have more time to figure out the land to potentially -- these are also agencies that the house republicans do not necessarily like, so the idea of shutting them down is not as -- as it would be for other agencies. so they don't mind creating more drama and more cliffs, fiscal cliffs for government, for congress to have to figure this out. host: what has been the reaction among other republicans, the democrats, the white house? guest: general reaction has been huh? why? let's keep this simple. let's do this the way we always do this. susan collins is the top

republican on the senate appropriations committee and her reactions have generally been no, this is way too complicated. let's keep this simple, with key government open and let's just work on our funding bills. let's try to get a more conservative funding bill, let's just try to pass the bills, get some leverage and get into a negotiation with president biden and chuck schumer and senate democrats on a final package. it doesn't stand much of a chance. again, it is really complicated. members of the house appropriations committee, republicans that democrats alike do not want to do this process. a member of the house appropriations committee is advancing this idea, but he's from the freedom caucus. he is from that sort of far right corner of the gop conference. so he is not somebody who is in

line with most of those appropriators who have been around for 20 or 30 years and think they know how it is supposed to work. it is way too complicated. it can't work this way. host: so what is your gut telling you, is the government going to shut down in 10 days? guest: this is a groundhog day, getting a lot of bill murray movie references from my editors in the last couple of days. this is that repeating syndrome. we were just here five weeks, six weeks ago? september 20 8, 29, 30th. at that point, ivory the did think we were going to shut down. it seemed that kevin mccarthy had no choice but to relent to his far right wing and shut the government down, or else he was going to lose his job. what we didn't realize was that kevin mccarthy either was too

naive and didn't realize he was going to lose his job, or that he was genuinely willing to lose his job over keeping government open and passing what they call a clean cr, a simple resolution that says government stays open at current funding levels. so now there are some other conservatives that are saying let's try to get some tuna policies. let's get something about border security and tack it onto this to keep government open. all of those options were pursued in late september and they all failed in spectacular fashion. there was a bill that mccarthy advance that would have kept the government open, but not at last year's levels. it was an 8% cut in one month which in some ways was almost like a 30% cut. i can't do the math to explain it. either way, it was a cut. at on top of that they were

putting their conservative bill onto the bill to keep government open. 21 republicans said no, i hate this way of funding the government. even if you tack on a bunch of conservative victories, i'm still going to vote no on this. so it is possible that there are some people willing to go along now we didn't go along with that process five weeks or six weeks ago just because the speaker is different. they have a new speaker, mike johnson. maybe they are going to say all right, i'll give this new guy a chance. kevin mccarthy i was tired of, he had been in leadership forever and a day. i didn't trust him. if mike johnson advances that type of policy, maybe it has a chance but he can only afford to lose four if everybody is attending and voting, and kevin mccarthy had 21 who opposed that

bill just six weeks ago. so the math doesn't really work here. it seems as if at some point speaker johnson is going to have to say i guess i did exactly what mccarthy did six weeks ago and passed a simple bill to keep government open, buy some time and try to find another way to get some conservative wins. does that mean you are going to shut down? i don't think so, i don't think they want to shut down, but this is a totally new leadership team and they may stumble their way into a brief shut down simply because they didn't understand the pacing, the rhythm and the policy that needs to get into play here to avoid a shutdown. host: if you would like to ask a question to our guest, you can call us on our lines by political party. democrat, (202) 748-8000. republican, (202) 748-8001.

independent, (202) 748-8002. you can also text us at (202) 748-8003. we are also on facebook and x. let's talk about the israel aid bill. that was a stand-alone bill with cuts to the irs enforcement budget. why did speaker johnson decide to go that route knowing that that would not pass a democratic house or be signed by president biden? >> guest:'s first instinct on the first big bill turned to the right. he had a clear path for what would have been a big easy victory early on and instead, he decided to listen to the far right corner of his conference who simply wanted some sort of policy win. i think they viewed israel aid as something that was going to get 400, 415 votes, an

overwhelming majority, and they figured why not use this as a poker chip where we can try to do something that will take a hit at democratic priorities? in the whole irs enforcement issue was part of the inflation reduction act from 2022 in which they pumped more money into the irs to get more audits supposedly of wealthier people that would, in turn, bring more money back into the treasury to try to catch people cheating on their taxes. it has scored, in the local lingo, as something that overall brings in revenue to the government. the more people you have that actually catch tax cheats which then brings money back into the treasury is a net positive in revenue. but republicans think that the irs will then audit people who don't deserve to be audited, so

they want today win on that. it is not going to be a win. it is a bill that makes a policy political point. the senate doesn't want to take it out. senate republicans don't really want to take it up. this is something that is really a basic thing. supporting israel. they don't want to link it with something completely unrelated. what the senate will do once they are going to take up this bill, they are now going to have to consider their priorities. they might team up with ukraine funding weather has been a request for ukraine funding. senate republicans are trying to work with a couple of democrats to try to come up with some border policy that they like that could be tacked onto the bill, as well as some other issues like aid for taiwan.

the senate is trying to do a bill that is a very traditional senate bill. when you have one thing over here that a bunch of people like and another thing over here that a bunch of people like and you can get two other things over there, why pass them one by one when you could put them altogether and all of the sudden, you got a coalition of 80 to 100 that will vote for something? that is the way the senate has been doing things for the last 15 or so years. individual bills don't really move through what they call regular order. instead, we just pile up things and this thing my only have 40 votes, but if there is this many, it could get 40 more votes. the house hates that. the house hate that process of we call these things omnibuses. some senators want to take the basic cr.

the senate wants to take that security supplemental. but then they want to put 100 billion dollars on top of that and send it back to the house. that is the way the senate does things. but if they do that, that is not what house republicans want to do. they have been screaming about single subject bills. let's break these things out and consider them one by one. host: and speaker johnson was on fox news sunday this past weekend. he was asked about putting ukrainian aid and the border funding together in one bill. and i will show you a portion of that and have you respond to it. >> what this is about is advancing the agenda and the first priorities of the american people. i don't know what democrat gave

me that absurd quote but they clearly are not listening to their constituents. if you go out in the country people will say we understand our role as leaders of the world, we understand that we are the great superpower that needs to assist and ensure that freedom survives, but we have to take care of our own house first and securing our own border is an essential priority for the american people. they are not listening to their constituents. that is a tone deaf response. we can do all of these things together, but when you couple ukraine and the border, that makes sense to people because they say if we are going to protect ukraine's border, and we have to do what is necessary there, we don't want vladimir putin to prevail, the free world can't afford that, but we have to take care of our own border first. and that is what we are saying. these are policy changes that are necessary. this a growing consensus even across the aisle who recognize we have to change what is happening. there were 6.3 million illegal crossings since joe biden took office. more than the population of my

state. we cannot continue this and everyone knows it. human trafficking, the cartels making billions of dollars, we are going to stop that and the house republicans are committed to it. i think the people are with us. host: what do you think of that, paul? guest: this is one issue, the border, in which republicans are willing to -- it is not going to be a single subject thing. they realize that politically, the democrats are any bad spot on this issue. polling continually shows president biden's numbers on border security are very bad. there are democrats in the southwest who have been quietly but forcefully pleading the administration to do something about border security, and now in the last six months or so as cities have been receiving these migrants that are shipped up from the border, it is becoming a real issue for the democrats

and they want something to be done about it. the problem is the republican solutions are very tough. it is a very tough border security reaction. and that has echoes of the trump policies of the last presidency, and that was one of the most divisive things the democrats ever really dealt with, especially child separation at the border. so there is this tricky maneuvering that democrats have to do. they would probably like to get something done that toughens things up on the border, and republicans have them in a position right now where they could get something. the question is, a that becomes an echo of the trump administration policy, in which case democrats are going to walk away? or do they get something that is truly a tangible victory for conservatives and you have more border security?

but like you said, there's only 10 days to figure this out. i think if they are going to get a win on the border, they probably need to play a little bit of the longer game here and figure out can we buy time and if you are going to ukraine funding, we are really going to push a conservative filled that has a chance in the senate. host: with talk to callers. guest: sure. host: ed, line first for democrats, maryland. caller: i don't support this republican bill at all. it is foolish. they need to move forward with the bill that the senate has proposed that would hit all the corners that we need to get things done. but those republicans want to play this dirty game and what they don't realize is that it is going to hurt them in this upcoming election. they are going to lose this house. host: which bill are you talking

about that you are against? caller: the one that they are trying to push for the israel support ill. but they also want cuts to the irs to increase the deficit. that is the one i do not support. that mike johnson is putting forward. that is going to be dead on arrival. guest: well thanks for the call. you know, he is spot on, you are spot on that it is dead on arrival in the senate he really took what could have been a real easy victory for republicans, and it would have been a way that he could have looked almost bipartisan in his first week on the job. there was a chance to just put a simple israel bill on the war and they were probably over 400

votes in the house for that bill, and if that bill with no complications, just israel aid went to the senate, there was a pretty good chance that chuck schumer would have called the white house and said i know we were talking about a bigger bill with more security and ukraine funding and border, taiwan and all these other's, but i'm going to just pass it here in the senate and i think it would have received 95 to 100 votes in the senate. and it might already be at the president's desk. that was the easy pass that johnson could have taken but instead he stared right trying to appease some of his friends in the far right. host: lexington, kentucky republican, good morning. caller: good morning. they will just give everything to you. life savings, children, abortion

rights that we don't want, don't need to keep bringing in more immigrants to take care of us because of all the abortions we've had and all the homosexuals that don't reproduce. why don't we keep bringing in everything we need, all those cheap products from china? so that your children and grandchildren will be slaves. communism is slavery. host: do you have a question about congressional ballots? caller: you can't apply that to congressional politics? you've got a guy in the house who is totally wanting to stop some of the stuff that is going on. biden is out here getting 30%. he packs just 30% on inflation. every dollar you saved, 30% of

it is gone because of biden and the democrats. and you have the most biased show on this morning that i've ever heard. guest: this is the way conservatives feel right now. that is a voice that is very common among conservative voters right now, and what is really interesting, he is from lexington, kentucky and kentucky has a very big race today for governor. it's going to be a very interesting race because there is this looming health issue with republican leader mitch mcconnell. he has vowed to finish the rest of his term going through 2026, three years and a couple months. he's into his 80's, he has had these health scares and people are wondering if he's going to be able to finish his term. and the governor's race is

between governor beshear, a very popular democrat and a very republican state, and voters like ben who presumably would vote for the attorney general republican, you would think. but so far all the polling has shown the sheer with either a slight lead or a large lead. this is going to be a very interesting issue that is going to tell us a lot about the policies they are having right now. abortion rights is a very big thing in that race. andy beshear has really wrapped himself around abortion rights. and if the ends of winning a second term, it gets very complicated for mitch mcconnell. kentucky law, if he has to retire early, kentucky law says that republican party would give three names to the governor, and he couldn't appoint a democrat but he would get those three

names. there have been hands that the governor thinks that law is unconstitutional and he might not appoint somebody and he might try to have a legal battle over it. and you can have a vacant seat for some time here for mitch mcconnell's seat. this is a really important governors read just on the states of these two figures were running who are both young and have great futures. but here on capitol hill and watching this race to see what could play out in the long game that mitch mcconnell likes to talk about for his own future. host: california, can you tell us house speaker johnson avoids the identical fate of speaker mccarthy? when johnson has to compromise with the senate and the president. has there been any rumbles about possibly vacating the sea? guest: there haven't been. bakersfield, california is the hometown town of kevin mccarthy where he grew up and still lives

with his wife of many years. the thing that mccarthy lacked fundamentally was trust. he did not have the trust of his far right flank. and whether it was negotiating the debt ceiling bill in the summer or the government funding bill in the fall, he just lacked the trust. mike johnson comes from that far right corner. he's not as far right as matt gaetz, but he comes from there. he speaks their language. he may be able to do things and not face the same sort of penalties the way kevin mccarthy was going to face those penalties. i don't know how long that lasts. if they give him a little bit more leeway, some runway, you can do a couple things, you can keep government open.

maybe that lasts a few months, maybe a year. but i don't think it lasts that long and eventually, he's going to get put in the same sort of place that kevin mccarthy has faced. host: laurie, california, independent. caller: good morning. i'm so passionate about this right now. i am 64 years old, almost 65. i was born in 1959 in livermore, california. my mother lost all of her teeth to malnutrition during the depression and my father gave his life in world war ii so we had our freedom. that was an ugly thing that happened. there's a lot of people who don't know it. and what happened to the jewish people there, the atrocities we've seen, but that generation

did, my parents, we have our freedom because we all joined together. everybody, everybody did. and that is what we need to do again. if you lied, there were consequences. you were told no, you had to work, you had chores. i hated then but i appreciate it now because it teaches you that you have to work for what you get and that there are consequences. when you let people get away with this stuff, they turn into monsters. it's like when they used to tell bullies, just ignore them, but they grew up to be bigger bullies. it has got to stop. we go back to love and community. over here, the local government

in livermore, they have been taking old people's land. anything to give to those that are sliding into -- host: we need to move on, any comment? guest: i think that sums up a lot of independent voters. i think there's a large portion of independent voters who by all the political science studies are a smaller group than they were 20 years ago or 40 years ago, but lori has got that voice of just get things done. just get things done. why are these sides fighting? get things done. that is were a good 15-20% of

americans are right now, and they are the ones who decide elections. they are the ones crying out for both sides to come together, get things done, simple accomplishments. doesn't have to be the biggest thing ever, doesn't have to be small. they just want to see steady progress and they don't want to see the sort of fighting and bickering that has become so commonplace you're on capitol hill. host: republican ohio, good morning. caller: let me put this on mute. thanks for taking my call. ok, i used to get nervous. on the bills that they are trying to pass in washington, if they would just give the new speaker a little bit of time, he wants to split up these bills in such a fashion that we have an idea where this money is going.

so if they could just pass a deal for israel first and the irs, take that money from the irs, put it in the israel bill. most americans feel like probably supporting ukraine but we just don't want everything packaged together like they do. ukraine will be a separate bill, but we want to know where this one is going. ammunition for the war to keep putin at bay or to win. but i don't see how you can win a war when you can't even go into the other man's territory. they do a little bit of it, but not as they should, but we know they can't because if they do, hold war three will probably break out because russia has china helping them, iran helping them. host: i have a question for you.

you said why can't they just break up the bill. my question for you is it seems like you support aid for ukraine and for israel. why not put them together? caller: for example, like the one they want to do with israel, they want to pass a bill for israel, but we want to take the money over here, something we feel we do not necessarily need, and we are going to put that money in the bill and use that money for israel. now when it comes time for ukraine, we are going to say ok congress. we can't just keep giving money away. but now ukraine, we can go to the european allies and say we are going to put that much money in. guest: john is releasing the

anger and rage that is very common among house republicans. it is this view that the senate worldview is always too big to fail. let's grab this and put it on top of that. pretty soon you got this whole story struck that have got the pass, so everybody has to vote as. a lot of conservatives out there see these packages that get bigger and figure because there is a little of this and a little of that kind a lot of this and a lot of that. they are tired and exasperated from these massive, massive deals. they would like to see them get debated on. it would be really interesting, possibly for good government sake and for policy sake to actually have the house and senate take up an individual ukraine funding bill, put it on

the hour for a week, let people offer amendments, absent actual votes on things, and the far right in the senate house republican conference actually see where the votes are. by the end of the week, you might actually see there is overwhelming support for supporting ukraine as long as a couple of things are added here for transparency in the bill could pass. congressional leaders in this era like to just hold things themselves, write the bills and their leadership suites and then bring them to the floor and sort of force people into this up or down vote. thanksgiving is coming up so we got to pass this bill now or it is christmas season, you want to go home to see your family, got to pass this bill now. and that is where the rank-and-file -- and there are

rank-and-file democrats were tired of this as well. they would like to see the place open up and pay the actual policy. it would not be a bad thing, but we are now over into november and there aren't a lot of legislative days left in the year and this is what today's leadership does. they sort of hold their cards until the very end, force members into voting up or down and not getting the real debate that would probably help clear out some of the anger and frustration. 4 host: you wrote a piece in the washington post about the possibility of the house flipping the democrats and the senate flipping to republicans. towson senate elections could provide historic reverse results. what would need to happen for that scenario to play out and what impact would it have? guest: a friend of c-span, a friend of mine calls this the incredibly stable but volatile year of politics.

we have these congressional majorities that are barely majorities. senate democrats at 51 out of 100 seats. house republicans have 222 once a few vacancies are filled out of 435. statistically, republicans can afford to lose four votes. that is actually less than one senator if you do the math. again, i said earlier there would be no math, so forgive me if i'm wrong. when the majorities are that narrow, strange things can happen. house democrats in order to win back their majority are targeting up to 18 districts and maybe a few more, but 18 that republicans hold where joe biden won in 2020 and some of those seeds, biden won by 10 points or

more. they could go when these districts an overall win the majority. regardless of how he performs nationally, he could end up losing the race nationally but the democrats back the house majority. and then in the senate, republicans have 49 seats. there's three democratic seats that are out in the states that trump won by huge margins. if they win two of them, they have the majority. if they win one, republicans win the white house, they win the majority based on the tie-breaking vote. it just doesn't really happen in our history. usually, politics all sort of breaks in the same direction, to

the left or to the right. 1994 there was this big republican wave, they took control of the house for the first time in 40 years and also won the senate majority. democrats took the house majority, winning six seats in the senate, the senate majority. that is the way it usually goes. in 2010, the republicans didn't win back the senate, but seven or eight seats overall in the senate as the house was winning the majority back. we are now into this weird time where you can have just a small group of voters in a few states in the senate and a few districts in the house that can sort of flip things around and you get this inverse result that has never happened before. when the majorities change hands, they usually go together, or one body flips and the other

just doesn't quite. we are now into a very strange time and again, as amy sums it up, it is incredibly stable because there are so few districts left, so few senate seats left that are really in play, that it creates all this volatility were the majority just keeps flipping back and forth depending on voters like laurie from livermore, california who are really critical to deciding these elections. host: talk to jim in virginia, independent. caller: good morning, c-span and thank you for the guest. i have just one question for the guest. with the aid package negotiations about to start or already started, what are the chances of the democrats countering the immigration issue with providing some kind of

relief to the well-established, undocumented relation that has been here on average for 20 plus years? do you know if there are any conversations about that happening? myself, i am pretty passionate about immigration, it is one of my top voting issues for this upcoming election and i want border security but i also want to show compassion toward the people who have already been here who have earned the right to live here since they've been here for so long. just as negotiations are happening, i don't know why we are talking immigration with this aid package, but if the conversation is happening i think a democrat should play the exact same game and do something about it. thank you. guest: thanks.

it is the toughest issue of all on border security and immigration, what you do with however many million undocumented immigrants are now here, many of whom came here as children who have grown up, gone to school, many of whom are now working. right now, that issue has essentially been sidelined in this debate. it is not a central focus because republicans are so against this giving anything that would seem like amnesty. so is an issue that they may come back to in two years. i think that's the best hope right now for that issue. host: paul kane, senior

congressional reporter and columnist for the washington was. thanks as always. in about 30 nutes we will be joined by jacob where of the council on foreign relations on homeland security threats facing the u.s. right now from the border and escalating tensions in the middle east to the threat of homegrown terrorism. but first, more of your phone calls and open forums. your chance to weigh in on any political or public policy issue undermined this morning. you can start calling in now. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. we will be right back. >> this year, book tv marks 25 years of shining is not light on leading on should authors and

their books. with talks for more than 22,000 authors, nearly 100 cities and festivals visited and 16,000 events. book tv has provided viewers with 92,000 hours of programming on the latest literary discussions on history. you can watch a book tv every sunday on c-span two or online at book tv.org. book tv, 25 years of television for serious readers. c-spanshop.org is c-span's online store. browse our latest collection of c-span products, apparel, books, home decor and accessories. there is something for every c-span fan and every purchase helps support our nonprofit operation. shop now or anytime at c-spanshop.org.

>> monday, watch c-span's series of partnership with a library of congress books that shipped america. we will feature "free to choose." it was written in 1980 shortly after developing the television series by the same name and strongly argues for free trade, lower taxes, limited government regulations and school choice. a bestseller, it continues to spark debate today. in 1976, milton friedman won the nobel prize for economics and was an advisor to margaret thatcher and ronald reagan who presented him with the presidential medal of freedom in 1988. there even staying at the university of california santa barbara will join us on the program to discuss the book. watch monday live at 9:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span now,

or online at c-span.org. also be sure to scan the qr code to listen to our companion podcast where you can learn more about the authors of the books featured. washington journal continues. host: welcome back. it is open forum, so i will be taking your calls for about half an hour on anything on your mind public policy-wise or politics. i want to start with the middle east. secretary blinken has completed his mideast portion of his trip. here is the associated press that says after biden and blinken push, israel says netanyahu open to little pauses and gaza, but no cease fire. though he did talk to reporters yesterday and here is a portion of what he said. >> all of this is a work in progress. look, we know the deep concern

here for the terrible tall that gaza is taking on palestinians on men, women and children in gaza. a concern that we share, and that we are working on every single day. we've engaged the israelis on steps they can take to minimize civilian casualties. we are working very aggressively on getting more humanitarian systems into gaza and we have very concrete ways of doing that which i think you will see in the days ahead. that assistance can expand in significant ways so that they can eat it and get to the people who eat it. -we are having important conversations and more than conversations, we are making sure that the different influence, their relationships the countries in the regions have been putting countries that i visited or spoke to, that they are using that to make sure this doesn't read. that is critical, and i think

countries are very much engaged in trying to make sure that doesn't happen. so that is important. sometimes, the absence of something bad happening may not be the most obvious evidence of progress, but it is. host: that with the secretary of state yesterday. a few programming notes before we get to calls, and that is this morning, the supreme court hears an oral argument in the united states, a case on whether people who have domest violence protective orders against them can be in possession of a gun. that is live at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span three, and also on c-span now, our free mobile video at or online at c-span.org. 2:30 this afternoon, transportation industry leaders testify on roadway safety and other challenges. the senate environmental and

public work committee on transportation and infrastructure, that is live and 2:30 eastern on c-span three. you can also watch it on c-span now and online at c-span.org. regarding that case, here is an article about it. this is npr.org. it says the supreme court decides if gun bans for domestic abusers are constitutional. oral arguments will happen today at 10:00 a.m. again over on c-span 3. let's go to the calls now. karen, democrat, good morning. caller: i'm sorry i missed the last segment but i want to make a point regarding this aid package. i as a democrat look at the republican party has such hypocrites. we got this aid package the duration put together that will include israel, ukraine.

and that also includes the border. not even a month ago, everyone was all up in arms about the border, border security. so we brought in this aid package. republicans, people need to understand that there are four countries that have nothing on the agenda but to take down the united states. iran, north korea, russia and china. they don't care about anything going on in the united states other than to destroy the united states. so when you have ukraine out here fighting a battle for us, when you have israel fighting a battle for us, when we have a border that we need to defend ourselves, i just don't understand why we want to break up a package that is going to cover and protect the very people who are going to bat for us. i'm just killing the republican party, some of the republican party is like, do as i say but not as i want.

we are living in a republican and red state and most of them are living on government or social programs with blue states funding them. i say to my republican friends, don't bite the hand that view. you don't want to give up social security, you want to say that i'm not a socialist. you want to go ahead and stand by the israeli people, but you say i don't like slaughter in palestine. i don't understand how we get out of this mess until we start being honest about who we are as a country and what we want. i'm proud to be a democrat. we do as we say we are going to do whether you like it or not and it is going to come back to bite us all if we don't get our act together. host: pat is in north dakota. good morning, independent. caller: i'd just like to say that the democrats are always saying we've got to save democracy, let's save democracy.

like the republicans are trying to destroy democracy. the democrats don't even practice democracy. they are practicing executive orders. that is not democracy, that is tierney. most of the people here don't want open borders, but they don't seem to care. so i wish they would get back to democracy. host: new york, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. i want to switch gears for a moment and talk about something that has been bothering me. many of the pro-palestinian groups use the term genocide when they refer to israel or even joe biden, and i think they don't understand what the definition of that term is. the definition is the deliberate desire to completely eliminate a people and that is not israel's intent.

i resent that term being used because jews especially a very sensitive to what genocide is. my grandparents were gassed in a concentration camp and many of my relatives were shot in pits in europe. there were 9 million jews in europe before the war. 6 million were killed, and the germans were committing genocide because it was their desire to deliberately eliminate a people. host: kevin in des moines iowa, independent. caller: i did like what paul kane said, rudy gobert would be proud of how the republican party seems to have their business these days. for the record i am a former

republican, i walked away from the party after donald trump took over and replaced it with populist nonsense. to my former party members, you are not conservatives anymore, you are contrarian. you complain, complain, complain but offer no solutions. example, the whole thing with the abandonment of ukraine. wanting to abandon ukraine because donald trump would not take the reins. but if we did abandon them and russia did end up overtaking ukraine and then end up knocking on poland's door or rather trying to kick the door down, the same folks were saying ukrainians can stand on their own would turn around and blame others for -- blame president for saying why did you abandon them? guess what, this is what you wanted in the first place. if you want to show that you are serious about governing, you need to actually act like it. the folks in the house of representatives right now could

not even run a lemonade stand. you keep saying the democrats aren't doing anything, they are running this country into the ground. like it or not, they are governing. they are getting things done. it might not be what you agree with, but they are getting things done. if you don't want that to change need to ask serious about governing. host: as an independent, who are you voting for in 2024? caller: donald trump is not an option. i watched the four years that he did, disaster. i am a never trump that many of them rail on. we were right about everything that that man has stood for and what he has done to the republican party. i would like to go back to that party one day. i don't see that happening anytime soon if ever. host: do you see any of the candidates representing that on the republican side? caller: the only ones possibly are the ones that have no chance.

that would be probably christie and agar hutchinson. they are understanding and saying hey, donald trump is not a conservative, maga is not conservative, it is populism. it has practically become a cold. another example on social media, many of the same folks who just a few days ago were singing governor kim reynolds' praises are now out to get her because she is choosing to endorse the santos. host: let's go to garden city missouri, good morning. caller: to your previous caller that maga and the republicans are not conservatives, give me a break. first of all, we don't need the military-industrial complex perpetually funded to have america in foreign wars that people bank off the lives of our united states military. i'm a military mother, i should freaking know.

we stand for god, we stand for morals, we stand for secure borders because god is a god of order and if you just opened up your door and let anybody into your house, you are not a very good parent because you are not protecting your children. that is what our government is supposed to do for us. i cannot afford this inflation reduction act. read it. it does not reduce inflation. at all. biden is a crook, he is dishonest. i am a pro-life conservative catholic from a small town. read your bible, read your constitution. america first, no taxation without -- and late-term abortions, that is disgusting. if you want to fund foreign wars and shed blood without knowing what is going on, shame on you. that is what happens.

it happened in vietnam, it happened with the korean war. let israel figure out what they need to do and stop funding ukraine without any accountability. i want to see receipts. there is funding for israel and ukraine. biden once more. there you go. you are a very pretty girl. i enjoy watching you. host: sandy in kentucky, democrat. good morning. caller: i am going to talk about something entirely different. i was listening to paul kane before. i wanted to say this to everyone out there that what we really want to get congress done, we need to have term limits in congress. i know congress -- that way they

would not be worried about getting elected next time. they would be doing their job for the united states. we need term limits. the only way we can get that is to put that on a national election basis for the people of the united states to vote. that is what we need to do. congress would never vote themselves out of office. we need term limits. that is the important thing. i am from kentucky, i am a democrat, i voting for andy to hear -- for andy beshear because we do not need daniel cameron. i am voting for andy beshear, he is a great guy. host: let's talk to debbie in maryland next. keller -- caller: with

republicans in the house, i heard this would be a major thing for everybody. i herded they wanted to -- release from january 6. it was not all maga supporters. anitfa was there and black lives matter. really see what was going on. there were some tapes before they took everybody's phone that showed them changing clothes in the parking lot or wherever they were and putting on different outfits. i would like to know why they cannot show it. that is one of the things that matt gaetz wanted people to see and i would like to know if that is true or not.

host: charlie from new york, independent. caller: about immigration, i don't think people realize immigration is used for the wealth of the country. alexandria ocasio-cortez has a nice video, people can check it out. who is going to pay for our social security? the average american becomes -- richer. host: charlie, you are cutting in and out. if you could try a better line. jack in ohio, good morning. caller: good morning. my point is this, i am a lifelong democrat. you want to get things back where it should be, put liz cheney as speaker. she will work with both sides.

she has gotten the experience nobody else can claim. put her there and we will get things back on. host: dylan in sturgis, south dakota. republican. caller: good morning. i am a disabled veteran. we have a lot of the veterans around here. i wish they did something about the border, immigrants coming our way. they don't seem to be doing anything wrong, just trying to get by. trying to work for the feds. these college kids remind me of a bunch of hippies after vietnam throwing bottles at us and

calling us baby killers. i wish the college kids would get together. i appreciate c-span. host: martin in chicago, independent line. caller: i want to say couple of things. your first caller kept calling democrats oppose abortion -- pro-abortion. nobody is pro-abortion. nobody. in 20 when trump took office -- in 2016 when trump took office, he had one drop, pass a budget. he never did. he continued obama's budget in 2018. since they did not pass a budget, who is responsible for that, -- responsible for that economy?

obama. do your homework, republicans. host: look at a portion from candidate chris christie. he was booed when he walked onto the stage at the florida freedom party summit. he called it petty. [video clip] >> this type of pettiness is belief -- is beneath the process of electing a president. as people watch today. if your arguments are so strong, if your arguments are so great and mine are so bad, then just keep quite. let me make my awful arguments

and then you can just reject them. but the problem is you fear the truth. the problem is you want to shout down any voice that says anything different than what you want to hear. you can continue to do it and believe me, it does not bother me one bit. i will tell you what does bother me. as we stand today and watch the atrocities going on in israel, that is what we should spend our time talking about and that is the place i suggest some of our anger should be directed. we should make sure every

candidate running for president makes it very clear to every american the united states will stand undivided with the state of israel and we will defeat terrorists all around the world. i am the only candidate in this race, the only one, who has had the opportunity to prosecute those terrorists, to do the job that needed to be done after september 11, to take terrorists who are going to attack american citizens on our soil and put them in jail. one of them was going to attack airliners coming out of new work airport to shoot him out of the sky and we caught them before they could and he spent the rest of his life and died in prison. host: back to the phones for

open forum. cedar falls, iowa. democrat. caller: thank you for taking my call. i just have one thing to say. there is a book out, been out quite a wild, called american oligarchy. it is about the trumps and kushners. it was written by bernstein. i don't member her first name. anybody interested in the background, i highly recommend reading that book. host: mel is in virgin islands, independent. caller: good morning. hello? host: go ahead. caller: i was listening to your

program and is the to me. in june 1967 i was serving in the republic of south vietnam when the uss liberty was ambushed and american sailors were slaughtered by our so-called very best friend in the middle east. no one talks about that. in 1982 when they opened up the refugee camps in lebanon, thousands of people, women, children, elderly were slaughtered -- that was a massacre. when south africa -- their

biggest allies was israel. no one complained about that. there was a congressman by the name of brian mast and he showed up in any idf uniform and he was not sanction for that. what is going on in this country? host: about the uss liberty attack, just so people know what we are talking about, this is from the office of the historian at the state department about that. u.s. naval technical ship liberty was attacked by israeli aircraft and torpedo boats off of the sinai peninsula on june

8, 1957. the following account of the circumstances. -- israel later apologized for that and said it was a mistake. here is teresa. caller: thanks for having me. i will be voting for president trump, looking at what happened in our country and our world. how can president biden tell israel what to do when he put our country in shambles? the borders, inflation, violence. he is in a compromising position for betraying our country for his own personal wealth. he sacrificed our country. we are out there hanging. i love president trump, not a perfect president, but one amazing president who i feel

will be doing as one of the best presidents in america. i love him and i feel that he doesn't always have the best words and he is rough around the edges. he knows how to run our country. thank you for having me. host: let's go to dayton, ohio. caller: washington journal has been good uncovering particular issues. on the israel-palestine conflict , washington journal has been complicit. all of us are complicit to some degree in regard to the confrontation and the massacre going on right now.

what hamas did was horrific as the context was that israel has done some horrific things to palestinians. washington journal has been complicit, obama has been complicit. during his eight years, he did little to nothing to deal with the illegal settlements and the expansion. at the very end of his administration, he did his -- i cannot think of his u.n. person. host: susan rice? caller: it wasn't a susan rice. he went to the u.m. ed epstein -- to the u.n. and he abstained. obama did abstain in that last

month of his administration. obama has been complicit. i also watch morning joe. these mainstream outlets have been complicit. you hear they are not covered a historical context, they did not cover 2008 when obama and biden reelected and israel went into gaza in december two dozen eight. nika, joe scarborough, msnbc has been complicit. now they are covering it. but they have been complicit for years not covering the historical context. i have been begging washington journal to do the four international reports on determining that israel is an apartheid state. amnesty international and human rights watch, you guys have not

touched it. obama has been complicit, you have been complicit. morning joe has been complicit. he just started calling settlers extremists. he could have been doing that the past few years. host: all of our program is that c-span.org, you can search our archives. we have done programs on the historical background to this conflict. that is all the time we have got for today's open forum. next, we will examine the various security threats facing the u.s. from the border, tensions in the middle east and the threat of homegrown terrorism. that conversation after the break with jacob ware from the council on foreign relations. ♪ >> monday, watch c-span's series

in partnership with the u.s. congress, "books that shaped america." we will focus on "free to choose." it was written after developing the television series on the same name and argues for free-trade, lower taxes, limited government regulation, and school choice. it continues to spark debate today. in 1976, milton friedman won the prize for economics and president ronald reagan presented him with the presidential medal of freeman. a letter of economics at university of california santa barbara and author of "milton friedman" will join us to discuss the book. watch "books that shaped america" monday economically p.m. eastern on c-span -- monday 9:00 p.m. at c-span.org, on c-span, or listen to our

companion podcast. >> c-span now is a free mobile app filtering -- featuring your unfiltered view of what is happening in washington. keep up-to-date with today's fixed events with floor hearings and earrings from the u.s. congress, white has events, the court, campaigns and more from the world of politics, all at your figure tips. stay current with the latest episodes of washington journal and find scheduling information for tv networks and radio, plus a variety of compelling podcasts. c-span now is available at the apple store and google play. c-span now, your front row seat to washington anytime, anywhere. >> the honorable mike johnson having received a majority of

votes is devoted speaker of the house of representatives -- is devoted speaker of the house of representatives. >> the battle over the house speaker ship is over. gop members elected mike johnson as the new speaker of the house. following the removal of kevin mccarthy. c-span brought you every moment from capitol hill as this historic election unfolded. continue to stay with the c-span network as the house reconvenes and gets back to legislative business. you can also visit our video library at c-span.org. you can find out more about how -- more about mike johnson's career in congress. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. >> if you ever miss any of c-span's coverage, you can find anytime online at c-span.org. videos of key hearings and debates future markers that

guide you to interesting and newsworthy highlights. these point of interest markers appear on the right-hand side of your screen when you hit play. this timeline tool makes it easy to get an idea of what was debated and decided in washington. scroll through and spend a few minutes on c-span's points of interest. a healthy democracy does >> not just look like this >>, it looks like this. americans can see democracy at work, where citizens are truly informed, the public trust. get informed straight from the source. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word from the nation's capital to where you are. the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span, powered by cable. >> "washington journal" continues. host: i am joined by jacob ware,

a research fellow at the council of foreign relations. he will talk about threats facing the u.s. homeland. guest: thank you for having me. host: set the stage for us. what was the threat environment like before the war in the middle east and now. guest: a lot of people were taken off guard. not just in the intelligence communities but those of us analyzing the issue. we have seen small scale violence and israel perpetrated by jihadist groups. we did not foresee that this group was capable of a coordinated land, sea, and air attack like this. it has been a devastating shock. host: it seemed that islamic terrorism had gone dormant for a while. was that a perception or read -- or a reality? guest: a reality here in the

united states. we have seen a rise in far right terrorism. it manifested in places like pittsburgh, el paso, jacksonville. we had not seen those attacks so much here in the u.s.. israel deals with this on a daily basis. i just don't think we foresaw that this group at this moment had the capability where the will to conduct this kind of operation. it has been a surprise. host: nally threat environment has got -- now the threat environment has gotten more dangerous in the united states. guest: i would say so. we are seeing rising levels of antisemitism and islamophobia. this should not be surprising. this is an american tradition that when issues happen in the world, americans unfortunately find a way to target communities

here in the united states. it happened during world war ii, 9/11 11, during covid, and in this crisis that jews and muslims and people perceived to be jews and muslims are facing a rise in hate crimes. host: christopher wray was before the senate homeland security committee earlier. this is what he said about the threat environment. [video clip] dir. wray: the terrorism threat has been elevated throughout 2023 but the war in the middle east has raised the threat of attack on americans in the u.s. to another level. since the horrific terrorist attacks committed by hamas against innocent people in israel, we have in working to support our partners there and

to protect americans at home. we assess the actions of hamas and its allies will serve as an inspiration the likes of which we have not seen since isis launched its so-called caliphate years ago. in the past few weeks, multiple foreign terrorist organizations have called for attacks against americans and the west. al qaeda issued its most specific call to attack the u.s. in the last five years. isis urged its followers to target the jewish communities in the u.s. and europe. hezbollah has publicly expressed its support for hamas and credited to attack u.s. interests in the middle east. we have seen an increase of attacks on u.s. military bases overseas carried out by militia groups backed by iran. here in the u.s., our most immediate concern is that violent extremists, individuals

or small groups, will draw inspiration from the events in the middle east to carry out attacks against americans going about their daily lives. that includes not just homegrown extremists inspired by a foreign terrorist organization, but also domestic violence extremists targeting jewish or muslim communities. host: he said a lot in there. let's unpack it. he mentioned hamas, hezbollah, and isis. can you give us the similar keys or differences among those groups with how they might impact u.s. security. guest: hezbollah and hamas are iranian proxy groups. hezbollah is a shia and has a political presence in lebanon. these are groups supported and encouraged by iran, as opposed to al qaeda which are terrorist

organizations. they don't have a relationship with iran. they typically have a contentious relationship with iran. it is inaccurate to put them in the same bucket and say the same kind of individuals would be inspired by the same call to action. we typically see high levels of jihadist violence here in the u.s. when these groups are active abroad. for example, what christopher wray's book about was the alum asked a--receiver ray spoke about was the islamic state was rising people to violence when the caliphate was at its height. i think we are seeing similar signs of a heightened threat environment because of excesses abroad. host: when he talked about lone actors being inspired, how does

that work and what is the likelihood of that? guest: the likelihood is higher than a coordinated international attack. there has been a lot of debate in certain quarters, this other border, for example, and a terrorism threat through immigration at the southern border. it is a deliberate strategy that jihadist groups have put in place to actually inspire individuals in the west rather than conduct attacks through foreign plots. it is more difficult to infiltrate stream missed or militants across the border, whether through legal means or illegal means then to inspire a believer in the home and. when he talks about lone actors and extremist, he talks about inspiring attacks, he is talking about instances like orlando, san bernardino, new york city in the last decade where individuals who are here were

inspired to act alone as opposed to being smuggled across the border were flown into the country to conduct attacks. it is a far greater threat that someone here would conduct any attack. host: let's talk about the mexico-u.s. border. there was an exchange between ron johnson and director wray on threats from migrants. [video clip] sen. johnson: what are you doing to invest these people and stop this threat? dir. wray: there are task forces to try to identify -- sen. johnson: how many agents do you have tasked to investigate potential terror threats coming

into this country, particularly god always. how many are investigating? dir. wray: i don't know if i can give you an exact number. sen. johnson: is it 100, a couple hundred? dir. wray: we have several hundred agents tackling the threat that come from the border from the national security side, counterterrorism side, and organized crime side. sen. johnson: how does that compare to the number of agents investigating the january 6 protesters? at the height of that investigation, how many agents were assigned to that? dir. wray: i don't have exact numbers. rep. johnson: -- sen. johnson: ballpark. dir. wray: i am confident the number of agents working on threats that should be billed to the border far exceeds the people working on the january 6 investigation. host: what do you think of that

as far as the resources dedicated to people coming across the border? guest: the big point that wray makes is this is only partly a counterterrorism problem. the border is much bigger, organized prime -- organized crime and security threats. i focus on terrorism. a report from the cato institute noted that in their database they only have nine illegal immigrants who conducted terrorism attacks in the u.s. they killed or injured zero people. that is not a serious threat. when we talk about the southern border antiterrorism -- and the terrorism nexus, border patrol reported 151 migrants that were positive terrorism watch list

matches. that is lower than the northern border. just because somebody on the terrorism database, it does not mean they are a suspected terrorist. it could be a false positive, if you remember -- a family member or a relative. many of those are not from the groups that have ms -- not all of them or let into the u.s.. when you take all those individuals, it makes up 0.01% of illegal migrants. the data does not support the argument that terrorism through the southern border is a major issue. that does not mean you should ignore it. last week there was an individual who was apprehended because he was wanted in senegal. by enforcement and the fbi is working hard on this issue --

law enforcement and the fbi is working hard on this issue and i believe is representative of the threat. host: if you would like to call in and ask a question of our guest, you can do so on our lines. democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. you wrote a book called "god, guns, and sedition." how did they get to the point where we are today with far right terrorism? guest: my co-author and i trace the issue back to the 1970's to a group called "the turner diaries." it was a blueprint for antigovernment revolution. from there, several developments occur including the establishment of the great replacement theory, establishment of exhibitionism as -- accelerationism, leading

up to the first black president which was a for these individuals through the trump administration where some individuals felt they had covered from the u.s. -- from the white house to exercise militant means. it was the culmination -- january 6 was the culmination of several trends that have been worsening over the past 40 to 50 years. we offer a conclusion with several recommendations to address that threat. the key part is that you have to think deeper about the reasons why we were led to this moment and address those long-term issues. host: the hamas attack on israel has been called their 9/11. i wonder what lessons there are

for israel as they prosecute this war and the rise of civilian deaths. for them to not create more terrorists than they are eradicating. guest: incredibly difficult issue. we have used the 9/11 comparison. i have written about that. if you compare the numbers per capita, the number of fatalities in this attack is close to 40,000 americans. it is several 9/11's. the big lesson from 11 is that kill and capture cap terrorism might actually work. the u.s. about -- trying to merely -- it functioned. try your best to be as surgical as you can. go after leaders. do not think you can discard

peaceful billions on the ground that are suffering because they will remember and you will face this threat again. a very complex issue and very tough given how barbaric that terrorist attack was. host: based on what you know about hamas and the ideology behind it, can it be eradicated? guest: hamas's founding covenant is a homicidal -- a genocidal document. they call for the eradication of jewish people. i don't think there is room for negotiation. there is not going to be a long-term future of a group with this ideology in this region coexisting with israel. whether you can in the long-term

pushback on some of those ideological elements, pushback on the genocidal desire, this group needs to be separated from palestinian people. this is a terrorist group that does not represent the palestinian people. it is unclear to me how deep that goes within the gaza strip and how much work needs to go into building a safe and stronger relationship. host: that's talk to callers, we will start with brian in albuquerque. caller: is the guest from the u.k., judging by his accent? guest: that would be accurate. caller: my point is, let's stop and think about how many humans have been murdered in the name of god, king, country, and tribe in that region. it is in the millions in the name of god. let's get things in perspective.

since you are from the u.k., let's talk about how imperial britain swooped in after world war i along with france and drew all the borders of the modern middle east and how great britain in their political manipulations with their balfour agreement helped to birth the state of israel and the role u.k. has played in the middle east, in my opinion, made it a huge mess which would include iran. let me finish. i think the u.k. needs to start spending billions of dollars and i think the british military is to go into the west bank and gaza strip and they should be the peacekeepers. guest: it is an excellent question.

i don't know that i disagree with any of your standing comments. i consider myself very lucky over the past months, and it is a month today since this happened, i am a counterterrorism scholar. i focus on violence and ideology and radicalization and counterterrorism. that question gets at geopolitical issues which are immensely complex. long-standing. unfortunately in washington, d.c., we have a cadre of scholars who can answer those kinds of questions. i focus on counterterrorism and national security today and moving forward. all i can say about this incident is the attack that happened in israel was a barbaric act of terrorism that displayed tactical choices more

a can to genocidal violence than traditional terrorist tactics. the response has been overwhelming, perhaps too overwhelming. we are watching closely for escalations in that space. those geopolitical questions matter. i am not the person to answer that question. host: new york city, democrat. good morning. caller: he continues to use the word jihadist, sort of completed -- conflated. the word jihad means to persevere. the biggest jihad is to persevere against our own -- the word connotes an

anti-islamic feeling [indiscernible] guest: excellent point. i have heard that point before. i would ask you to keep making that argument. my one count would be when i use jihad, i am using the word the terrorists themselves use. i understand it is a manipulation and they don't represent the religion. i will fight that fight with you. the best word i had to describe these ideologies is the word they have given us. if we can find nothing better, let's find something better. host: they themselves use the word jihad, they say they are conducting g hide they do these

attacks -- jihad when they do these attacks. guest: they do. host: good morning. caller: thanks for your work. i have a question that may be outside your area of expertise. we see the strategy that israel is using and we can characterize it however we want. i characterize it as genocide. do you have examples from history of strategies like this and if they have succeeded and at what cost? guest: good question. of strategies of israel going for an overwhelming response? caller: for any country being successful. -- or any country being successful. guest: looking at the history of terrorism, looking at the actions of the united states in fallujah, shock and awe

tactics tend not to work. leveling a city or a region because you are seeking out individuals and do harm to individuals that happen to live in that region is never going to be effective. one thing i would say to add some context here is there is a reason israel fight this way beyond merely genocidal regions -- genocidal reasons. hamas are very effective at hiding in civilian infrastructure, like tunnels under hospitals and tunnels under mosques. they don't fight in the open. they take advantage of what they will believe -- they believe will be an israeli response.

the reason why it was conducted in such a public way is because hmas -- hamas knew they would go to israel into action that would cause the deaths of tens of thousands of presidents. that is the tragedy -- tens of thousands of palestinians. that is the strategy. this is what hamas wanted. hamas wanted a load of dead palestinians. we need to talk about the fact that palestinian civilians, the innocent people who want a better life, are under siege from their own purported government representatives. they are in horrible situation stuck between a rock and a hard place. nobody will help them, including their own representatives. host: you have written in favor of congress passing a domestic

terrorism legislation. what would that look like? guest: very difficult. the reason why we do this, and it can go back to the point earlier, typically when the u.s. government prosecutes homegrown violence shamus, they use something called a foreign material -- material support to foreign -- charge. all of these groups fear spoken about today, isis, al qaeda, hamas, hezbollah, or foreign terrorist organizations. when someone conducts a terrorist attack on behalf of those organizations, they receive a foreign terrorist organization charge. the legal system will call them a terrorist. that does not exist in the domestic terrorist space. a website premises to any attacker, there is no terrorism charge. it is not exist.

it has two issues, there is a rhetorical problem which is calling other people who properly come from a different ethnicity, calling those terrorists in our legal system. the way subsists who are predominately white are not being called terrorists. there is an equality issue and a sentencing problem. the average sentence for charges is about 13 years. very often for white supremacists plotting, we see charges of about one to two years because they are usually sentenced on gun and drug charges not related to what they were planning. we have called for a law that would bridge the two gaffes, allowing us to charge a web support assist who is conducting a terrorist attack -- a white

supremacist who is conducting a terrorist attack to get the moral equivalence but make sure we are sentencing them correctly for the crimes they are trying to commit. host: let's talk to david in candace. caller: our biggest terrorists are mexico sending fentanyl up here and nobody really cares. the biggest thing we need to do is all this congressman, the president and vice president, we deduct two dollars from their pay for repairs in the dies of fennel -- for everyone who dies of fentanyl. guest: excellent point out the side area of expertise.

terrorism has an agenda setting function. terrorist attacks occur and they drive people, everyday people and politicians, to do strange things that are not commencement to the threat -- not commensurate to the threat. i would point to 35,000 plus people killed in just gun violence, including suicide. both of these issues are bigger threats than terrorism. terrorism has this way of driving the agenda in ways that are not necessary comfortable. i don't disagree with anything you said except perhaps the recommendation. fentanyl is not the only issue, gun violence is also an issue that kills more americans than terrorism. we need to be facing all these at the same time. host: let's go to michigan, the line for democrats. guest: let's go --

caller: let's go farther back in history. this is in no way supporting,'s/supporting,'s -- supporting hamas. the british protectorate was given power over what we know as israel and palestine. they paid scant attention to the refugees coming in and offered little resistance at the time. there was a reason for that. the reason was that the leader of the palestinians in jerusalem was a supporter of adolf hitler in world war ii. that is the crux of it all. the head honcho in jerusalem from the palestinian leadership supported hitler's and the british paid scant attention to the ships coming over, just enough to make it look like

there was a resistance there. host: we will get a response. guest: not much to add. i tried to focus on -- i try to focus on terrorism today. i believe we can combat threats, we can combat marxist -- ideologies, looking forward rather than looking backward. i understand there are complex historical issues at play. i am fortunate that i am able to for the most part, be forward thinking and think about how to stop future attacks, how to mitigate the current situation. host: ron is in michigan. independent line. caller: i have studied a lot about hamas but i want to get into it. my question is what happened in

9/11 in this country, i would like to know if there is any form of devastation uc transitioning from the middle east to our country. i don't know if you can tell me what the country is doing to protect ourselves. what are we doing to make sure that ideology does not transition to our country to where they will begin using a lot of people in our country looking at the constitution, looking at guns, looking at all kinds of problems coming from the border? what do you see the problem going forward for the next five to six or seven years? guest: thank you for that question. first of all, the u.s. is exceptionally good at what we might call foreign cap terrorism. 9/11 was restricted by foreign actors through multiple countries and involved people

who travel here and conducted those attacks. since 9/11, we have only had one for an coordinated terrorist attack in pensacola, florida that involved a saudi pilot on a military base. that was the only time anyone has successfully organized a plot abroad and brought it to the united states to kill americans. the far greater threat is from americans themselves across a number of ideologies. the orlando gunmen in 2016 was american-born. that points to homegrown violent terrorism threat. that threat remains high and if we're going to see violence, we are most likely to see that kind of attack, an american here, radicalized here, attacking americans here on behalf of were

inspired by a foreign organization. the four greatest threat right now -- for this greatest threat right now is domestic terrorism, white from cyst ideologies and antigovernment ideologies that target other americans based on homegrown ideologies. we have seen it from oklahoma city through atlanta through pittsburgh through charlottesville, jenny was sixth. -- through january 6. we face a drumbeat of butter from assist -- in this country and we don't have a good response. host: scott is in lebanon, connecticut. caller: i am calling to ask a question regarding a previous scholar's question to him regarding if overwhelming force

worked. he seemed perplexed to come up with examples other than iraq. my question is would you not consider world war ii, the european and japanese theater, was an overwhelming success? another example would be the first gulf war we went in with overwhelming force. when we do that and not use nationbuilding afterwards until we have a clear example, i think that is work. what happened in vietnam, afghanistan, iraq is where it doesn't work. guest: all of the examples you used -- great question. quality examples that worked involved conventional engagement against. state actors. world war ii, the gulf war. governments against governments, the united states is good

against those. the ones who did not mention with the exception of korea, vietnam, afghanistan, iraq. these are irregular conflicts. hybrid conflicts against nonstate actors. we are not at war with afghanistan. after the first few years we were not at war with the iraqi government. we were not at war with the vietnamese state. we were at war with guerrilla groups or insurgent groups or terrorist groups. that is the challenge israel is facing. it may be that the conclusion from our analysis is that overwhelming force works in conventional wars, when you are fighting on the battlefield or through the sky against the state actors. that is what you are doing. when you are trying to conduct counterterrorism fight against

any regular force, a nonstate actor, you have to be much more careful with the billion casualties, with damage you are doing to civilian infrastructure. people on the ground will remember and they will radicalize and recruit into those groups. excellent question. host: carlin, good morning. -- carolyn, in arizona, good morning. caller: i am interested in what you gentlemen's opinion is about the domestic terrorism growing threat. is it possible that rather than any overt attempt with a public display, not eradication, but infiltration of these organizations?

since we are in a brave new world and we are not using the james bond spy version of going in when we find undercurrents, is it possible to use their communication to track the radicalization of our youth? and what do you do about public education, not teaching physics and civilian conduct and country pride, etc.? a nonpolitical sense, a deductiv so that people can realize for themselves that these organizations are dangerous? guest: two excellent questions.

the first one is yes, we can infiltrate these networks and we do. usually with pretty good affect. the problem is that these groups on the far right tend to operate under what they call a leaderless resistance. they appreciate that government information makes them vulnerable. they tend to not organize in groups. , standard acts we have seen have involved loan actors that float under those networks and only emerge on scene. we do in patricians and we do it effectively. i can point you to groups we are effectively infiltrating, the base being one example. that is not healthy lung actors that operate under that. it would be an honor if you bought my book, it comes out on genuine second with columbia

university press -- on january 2 with columbia university press. we talk about -- literacy. this is the idea that at all levels of education, high school or even senior citizens, we need to train people to spot disinformation online to be able to engage in healthier habits on the internet, to double check and triple check sources to make sure information is accurate. those of us working in cap a terrorism space, we are thinking about how to be contribute to other public education in our country. you mentioned civics. i love that. i have not thought about that. i completely agree that anything we can do to strengthen our society and make us more

resilient, the benefits are beyond counterterrorism. it benefits climate change, the pandemics, more good information is a good thing. host: that is the time we have. jacob ware, research fellow at the council of pearl river -- the council on foreign relations. thank you for joining us. here is the house of representatives life. --