host: good morning everyone and happy thanksgiving on this thursday, november 23. we are grateful at the washington journal for our audience every morning.

thank you for watching and participating in this conversation. we will do it again this morning so before all of you gather at your thanksgiving table we want to know how do you plan to navigate political conversations today. dial in at which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] -- at 202-748-8000. mountain and pacific, 202-748-8001. or you can join us on facebook.com/c-span and and the post at c-span wj. according to a recent poll done by quinnipiac university they found six out of 10 of you plan to avoid any conversation of politics at your thanksgiving table. 60% of people said they would rather not talk politics over the holiday week. if you are one of them we want to hear from you. tell us why you plan to avoid

it. one topic that's likely to come up today in your conversations could be the israel hamas war and an update on the potential hostage deal hears from the front page of the new york times. sides plan to work out the details. from jerusalem a four-day cease-fire between israel and hamas the first break in seven weeks of war will most likely not begin until friday at the earliest according to israeli officials were hammering out a deal. timing for the releases which may also not begin was released in a statement issued by the national security council or the israeli prime minister's office. the deal calls for the release of at least 150 palestinian women and teenagers jailed by israel in exchange for at least 50 women and minors taken hostage during the hamas assaulting in israel on october 7. israel said its warplanes would

not fly over southern gaza for the duration of the cease-fire. it would not fly over for more than six hours each day. in the washington post coverage also a front-page story they note this, the biden administration officials are hopeful the release of the women and children including two americans and a toddler whose parents were killed by hamas on october 7 will work smoothly enough to extend the pause in fighting and allow others to be free. israel and u.s. officials believe there are at least another 25 and perhaps another 50 or more women and children among the estimated 239 hostages. a little bit more from the reporting on the israel hamas war. this is also from the washington post. the number of palestinians held by israel has swelled in the weeks since the start of the conflict.

they report most have been swept up in israeli raids in the west bank and potentially eligible for release including about 200 teenage boys and 75 women according to palestinian human rights groups. that is the latest on that conflict. this morning we are asking will you talk about and how do you plan to talk about politics at your thanksgiving gathering. recently the national governors association came up with a disagree better initiative. the plan is to have republican and democrat lawmakers delivering messages together. they think research shows that would help with political discourse in our country. here is the national governors association chair, utah's republican governor and the vice chair colorado's democratic governor talking about civility

and how to do it in a political dialogue. >> we are going to transition to a couple of questions from our students and before we get to student questions i will ask you . i feel like the audience member is may be about thanksgiving. what should you do as the conversation starts to derail or get heated? >> put on football. i'm just kidding. be curious and ask questions. why do you feel that way, what do you think about trying to get them to understand your position. it doesn't have to be and it shouldn't be a toxic topic. is it a hard topic to talk about constructively, sure. but i think the people should have meaningful dialogue. you can look at some of the techniques that data shows can work in this area. nga has many of the links and

the nonprofits to do this work. spencer and i had a great -- we sat down, there's no reason they can sit down together at the dinner table and have these conversations we need to have at a national level as well. >> i love talking about politics. growing up in college that's what we did. we did other things. we would debate and then go have dinner together and hang out and not hate each other. with my family this should be interesting, it should be fun sometimes. obviously we have problems. i think we need more participation not less. a healthy participation. we have a small group of people participating too much that this -- they are living and breathing at. do not define yourself, jared talked about identity.

historically our political identity was way down the list of how we do find ourselves in this country. growing up we were rams or aggies, we were dads and moms and we were americans. utah, coloradans. that's who we were. eventually you get down to i'm a republican or democrat. if that's how you think of yourself first as a conservative or progressive or liberal, then you are doing something wrong and it is really unhealthy. politics has become a religion for far too many people. nobody wants to hang out with you if that's all you want to talk about. host: the colorado governor and the utah governor there. democrat and republican talking about how to navigate politics at your thanksgiving gathering and this morning that's our conversation with all of you. this is how we divide the lines.

202, 7 48, 8000. mountain pacific area. member you can join us in a text include your first name, city and state. 202-748-8003 or you can go to facebook.com/c-span and on at at c-span wj. speaking of social media. from the daily news here is a piece that was written by the utah governor spencer cox. he said the good news is we aren't actually as divided as we seen. the same surveys he references show so much polarization and distrust. they also reveal the left and right are wrong about each other. voters attribute extreme views to the other side that they don't actually hold. groups are tracking this perception gap and the results are eye-opening. we all know what's driving the

misperception, social media algorithms, conflict entrepreneurs driving radio and cable ratings. highlighting the most divisive voices. but those combative voices represent the tiniest sliver of the population. analysis from the pew research center found a quarter of twitter users generate 99% of political messages. the polarizing minority may be louder than the exhausted majority so we can turn the tide if we work together. we can learn from president george w. bush who said too often we judge groups by the work -- worst example while judging ourselves and our best intentions. we can learn from president bill clinton who said there is nothing wrong with america that cannot be cured by what is right with america. mike in ohio, good morning to you. do you plan to talk about politics. >> good morning.

and happy thanksgiving everybody. what i really would like to ask everybody are we better off than we were under trump. please. we have so much chaos going on now and i will tell you the democratic party has done an excellent job as far as separating us and fighting amongst ourselves. people -- >> michael you have democrats at the thanksgiving table today. >> i have family members that are independent, republican and democrat and i will tell you what, even in my neighborhood the biden signs are gone. >> tell me about how you will navigate this then if you have independents and democrats and you are republican at the table. >> we are all family members under my roof and the way i have it, attitudes at the door when you come in. we will talk, we will yell and

scream but in the end we all come to the same conclusion. we are in trouble. we are in trouble. 33 trillion in debt and biden wants to run again. please. we are in trouble. host: 2024 election you will talk about the debt, is there another topic you think will come up? >> the major thing now is debt. you can do anything with out -- without money. >> mike, happy thanksgiving. deandre what is your plan for thanksgiving. how will you navigate the political conversation? >> good morning c-span. those conversations will happen. it is unavoidable. people say no politics at the table. what i would say is definitely look up in 2012 everything since

then has been manufactured to keep us distracted. i would say i would say no politics at the table. we definitely talk about it every day. we can talk about things we are grateful for. >> what if somebody at the table says something you -- that goes against your morals or values, your principles. you are not going to respond? >> i wear a tinfoil hat and i'm very outspoken so if i hear falsehoods i will correct it. 2023 we have the world wide web at our fingertips. unfortunately true journalism is under attack. we are just now getting to a point where people are looking

to the corporate media because it's all propaganda. host: here's a post from viewers as well, easy, the topic is forbidden at family gatherings is what she says. she will not be talking about politics. at their thanksgiving table. unlike what is the case in a lot of settings i don't set limits on what should be discussed. no rudeness or bullying. homophobic racist rants or that sort of things. we all have opinions but they are not the same as facts. if you can back it up with facts it's your opinion and that is fine. my desire -- one more this morning. remembering that despite our problems we should be grateful we live in a country where most people are striving for the good.

working for a more perfect union. joel in mountain home, arkansas. let's hear from you. how will you navigate this. >> good morning, how are we doing. my comment is there is no need for politics on a day like today. >> why not? >> all we need to do is thank to our good lord and god for the blessings and that he sent his son to forgive us for his sins and that's all i have today so there's no politics to discuss today. everyone have a nice holiday. >> stan in pennsylvania, good morning. are you talking politics today? >> probably not. i don't think so. i feel like that's the problem is we are talking politics all the time. some i feel like politics is kind of a replacement for fighting a little bit.

especially in the political sphere. we have two parties fighting each other so they don't go to war with each other. but i feel like more and more it's breaking down. i am jewish and going through it, watching all of this with israel and hamas it is starting to feel like politics and war are starting to disintegrate a little bit. >> give us an example? what do you mean? caller: just like the first week i am still in school and there is a big sense where i go to school and for literally the day after october 7, there was a huge free palestine painted on the student organization which is -- people can do what they want but it just stood there for like four days, literally right after all of this stuff is going on. to me that just feels like we are at a point where we are treating human life -- we are

putting politics above people a little bit. that's kind of the problem. it's like 25% of those people are generating 99% of the noise and it's just like why are they doing it. it's because they want to have not control but a sense that what they have to say is the most important thing in the world. >> more from that quinnipiac poll, they said given a list of four options and asked which they felt most responsible for divisions amongst americans voters say social media, 35%. political leaders, 32%. other countries 1%. the group that hold social media most responsible for its divisions among americans is voters 18 to 34 years old. sounds about like your age prayed 45% 18 to 34-year-old

hold social media the most responsible followed by cable news. wondering if you all agree with that today. as you prepare to gather around the thanksgiving table with your family and friends and what will you do, talk about politics, how will you talk about politics or will you avoid it altogether. >> good morning greta. i'm very excited to talk to you this thanksgiving. thank you so much for taking time away from your family and friends and i love c-span and i want to tell everyone in the u.s. of a happy thanksgiving. it's a sticky situation because everyone has a different opinion about politics even though you are in the same family. there is still some division and so i tried to do a lot of

listening and a lot less talking. i sure do. host: from the dallas morning news, the editorial written by the utah republican governor. let's disagree better at our thanksgiving table. i want to show you more of what he had to say as well as with the vice chair talked about this disagree better initiative when they gathered at an event that we covered at colorado state university last week. this is what they had to say about this initiative. [video clip] >> the question is do you think people should play nice and avoid topics that they know will be unpleasant? >> the answer is no. you don't tune out just because you think the public sphere is completely dominated by vitriolic people attacking one

another's character. it's not just the danger of the vitriolic rhetoric it's the danger that the rest of us tune out because it seems so unpleasant and so derogatory. in many ways that's the worst thing that can happen for civil society and democracy. and helping part of that make -- making that dialogue and discussion work. asking questions, engaging dialogue not being afraid to talk about values and opinions with people in a constructive way that does not denigrate the character of anybody you are in conversation with. >> what's your opinion on this? >> we talk about toxic polarization and unhealthy disagreement. as i mentioned some of the students today there are two sides to that coin. one is screaming at each other, that is not healthy conflict for sure. not engaging it all is just as unhealthy for our democracy so

the answer has to be no. i encourage people always to be curious. there is a magic question i use, i shared often is tell me more about why you feel that way. that question it does two things. it columns me down because i personally think this is a fight. no one has ever change their mind by attacking. we always think if i just tell them and this will change their mind. it never works. being curious to say tell me more about why you feel that way. it also shows i'm interested in the other person and what you find is if you ask it enough and get them to the why you'll find they have something in common with them. it'll most often always comes down to them loving their country and family and then it also gives you a chance to explain your -- your self in a positive and constructive way.

i'm telling you it absolutely works. i have seen it in the most almost near violent situation where people are just so angry just by asking that question we can calm down and listen. >> from colorado state university. ahead of the national governors association they are talking about how to talk about politics and you heard him say not talking about it is bad for our democracy. an organizational psychologist at cornell university writes in today's opinion section that it is also bad for your health and -- writing while not every comment warrants a response, not every setting is appropriate for debate when something strikes at the heart of your values it is worth considering the dynamic that may be preventing you from speaking. the value in voicing your thoughts and concerns even if

they might be met with opposition. continuing -- continually suppressing emotions which arise from genuine concerns or moral standpoints can have profound consequences. psychologically, emotional suppression can lead to higher risk of depression. physiologically holding back up feelings linked to a variety of health problems such as immune dysfunction, hypertension and cancer. the stress of consistently biting our tongues and the potential resentment towards loved ones also can have a strain on family ties. eugene in pennsylvania. what's your plan for us today? do you have a strategy? >> we get together but don't discuss politics. i do have a comment. i watch the history channel and he was smart enough to confer with eisenhower on the missile

crisis and to me he was one of the smartest presidents. >> going to tim in kentucky. will you talk about politics or not at the thanksgiving table? >> probably. >> how do you do it so that there is not hard feelings at the end of the dinner? >> most of my family pretty much is the same. but i'd first like to say thank you for your show. >> thank you for watching. caller: i do every day. it never gets to an uproar it might be a conversation and that's usually over who you will vote for and why. myself, and my family it will

probably be trump. he might have a bad reputation but he is a good president and ed like to give thanks to the lord for our soldiers and troops that can be with their families and that's all i have. >> thank you for watching and participating in this national conversation. we are grateful for you and others every day. on facebook saying because politics isn't part of my families identity to the point where our varying political views are offensive to one another what's more important that the thanksgiving gathering is family members -- not family members politics. paul in glendale, arizona. caller: good morning. happy thanksgiving. i'm going to dinner -- whether i talk or not remains to

be seen. host: allen in michigan, good morning. caller: good morning. i think the thing is everyone is so polarized if you're a democrat you will lean that way. but i believe people can just look at the politics that were put in place but caused the things that happened instead of just leaning one way or another. we all know we have this inflation and biden is blamed for that but in my view these tariffs the donald trump put in place is what caused the inflation. everybody says when trump was in there things were better. people have to realize when the president signs a policy it takes two to three years for them to work through to see what happened. and so people just do not look at facts, they just lean one way

or another. look at the policies that were put in place. they blame biden for spending but on the other hand trump spent more than biden did in 2020 p nobody blames him. host: joe is also in michigan, twin lake. caller: i just got one thing to say. united we stand, divided we will fall. go lions. >> joe in michigan with that message prayed how you plan to navigate politics at the thanksgiving gathering. that is our conversation in the first hour of the washington journal. want to give you an update on what happened at the canadian u.s. border. the governor gave a news conference yesterday about the bomb incident at the rainbow

bridge. here is what she had to tell her citizens. >> the investigation is ongoing. as you can imagine this vehicle basically incinerated. nothing is left but the engine. the pieces are scattered. it is a large scene and it will take a lot of time for our federal law enforcement partners who are with me here today to be able to piece together the real story, to identify the make of the car there is obviously not a license plate. i have been briefed by law enforcement in the past hour. new york state police, colonel andy crow, colonel allen, other law enforcement officials. i've been joined by andy belk or who is the special liaison in charge of customs and border patrol. also on the phone with the

secretary of homeland security, the fbi director has reached out the white house has reached out. my staff of been in communication with all of them. i spoke with senator schumer, senator gillibrand, congressman higgins, local law enforcement because the world is watching to find out what happened here. again at a time when there is such divide, stress levels are already high. we have been on high alert october 7, it's why it's so important for me to stand here and tell the world at this moment and again anything can change, there is no sign of terrorist activity with respect to this crash. we've identified this is a local individual. a western new yorker. individuals died in the vehicle. the border patrol individual working in the booth was

injured, the booth protected that individual. they went to the hospital and have been released. >> the new york governor talking about that incident at the u.s. canadian border. from the new york times as she said no sign of terrorism in this vehicle explosion. precise language. the car was speeding and hit a median, crashed and then exploded. you can see some footage on your screen from the associated press. it was at the border checkpoint involving international rainbow bridge. we are talking about politics, do you plan to talk about it at your dinner table for thanksgiving and if so we want to know what you will be talking about. how you plan to navigate the emotions of talking about politics and if you plan to avoid it, tell us why as well.

>> i want to say everybody should just be grateful but we are all here in the united states of america. if somebody starts politics i will just say woah, how did we get here, be glad that the people who came here came here and that you came down from them and be glad that they came. i just found out that i am welsh, french, english, russian and german. and i am so glad that those people decided to come here and i think everyone else should be. have a wonderful thanksgiving. host: ralph in new york.

>> good morning. host: will you be talking about politics today? caller: yes i will. host: what topics do you think will come up. >> what i believe of governments throughout this planet, all governments are organized crime. when are we going to change them, when will we bring younger people into this sphere. it is ridiculous. that's all i have to say and i thank you for your time. >> eddie in millbury, massachusetts. >> good morning. we don't talk about it at all. one of my son-in-law's is from ireland and ireland is very socialistic. but they have a 17.5% sales tax. that's how they pay for it.

so why don't we do it here? we can talk about it. some say that the rich don't pay their fair share. some say that there's no income tax for 50%, no sales tax. host: why can't you talk about those? health care, socialism? caller: because he has strong views about that. the concern is i have grandchildren coming back from college and for instance one young lady said that the george floyd was murdered, i said no he wasn't, he's a 6'6" former professional football player high on drugs with a bad heart and counterfeit dollar bills to buy cigarettes, he is a criminal , he is an armed robbery conviction against him and the

police put him in jail -- but the police in jail for murder. you can talk about them to college students and to foreigners. thank you. host: on ask years one of our viewers. we must respect one another. disagreement is inevitable. mutual respect goes a long way to avoiding conflict. disagreement doesn't have to be disagreeable. lancaster, south carolina. caller: how are you doing greta. please give me the time. some of my big pet peeves are illegal immigration. the propaganda network cnn saying $300 million -- three to many jobs will be lost to technology while 14 million over the next five years so we've got

all this leaving immigration. what will people do for jobs in the future. ukraine, of the money that's been spent in ukraine. there's a lot to talk about over the thanksgiving dinner but this cost is 33 trillion in debt. nothing really gets done so it's a race to the bottom for the united states. happy thanksgiving. host: speaking of congress, bernie sanders, the senator from vermont writing an opinion piece a lengthy one in today's new york times, palestinians must have hope for a brighter future. he notes what hamas did on october 7 and the amount of people killed and now those in hostage and how israel then responded to that attack.

he says for starters we must demand an immediate end to israel's indiscriminate bombing which is causing an enormous number of civilian casualties in violation of international law. he goes on to say there must also be a significant extended humanitarian pause so that badly needed aid, food and water and fuel can get into gaza and save lives. the deal in which 50 israeli hostages will be freed in exchange for a four-day caught -- pause inviting is honored it's a promising first step to hopefully work to extend a pause. he also writes long-suffering palestinians are ever going to have a chance at self-determination and an equal standard of living they must -- there must no longer be israeli reoccupation -- reoccupation in gaza. hamas will be removed from power as it must be an palestinians

given an opportunity for a better life and israeli occupation would be counterproductive and benefit hamas. to achieve the political transformation that gaza needs, a new palestinian leadership will be required as part of a wider political process. for that peace process to take place, israel must make certain political commitments that will allow for palestinian leadership committed to peace to build support. they must guarantee displaced palestinian -- palestinians right to return to their homes as gaza rebuilds. you can read more in today's opinion pages of the new york times. bernie sanders, a justice for palestinians and security for israel. he is calling for a two state solution as well. this is a topic that may come up at thanksgiving gathering today we are wondering how you plan to navigate these topics and other political conversations. michael in connecticut.

>> one question i will throw to you, why would you invite someone to your house on a special day like today who does not believe in american democracy? that's why there will be no angry discussion at my home. everyone in my home believes in american democracy and what that tells you without even having to answer in any further is that very simply there will be no republicans at my house. there are former republicans but no republicans. i have people in my world who will be at my home who no longer call themselves republicans because that party embraces the end of american democracy. the discussion will be positive, educational and when i do meet other anti-americans outside in the real world will have -- it ends up the same there, they are

angry and misinformed. but in my home on thanksgiving it will be positive and it will all be people who believe in american democracy. thank you. host: will anyone disagree? >> if you disagree you have it. you speak in the tone you and i are speaking to each other. if you're listening to callers, the angry ones are already heard it. i'm voting for trump and you can hear that. but for people who believe in american democracy and want to maintain it and hold it and plan to vote appropriately on election day. they are not republicans. they are just not. >> let's hear from alabama. hello kenneth. >> calling from just a few years

back president biden came aboard and president trump was leaving. having to watch family members die in nursing homes and wearing masks and people going to visit family and not be able to come together. all of this because of leadership -- millions of people died, millions of americans died. was making comments. host: i have to leave it there, difficulty hearing you. ollie in virginia. caller: can you hear me? host: yes we can. caller: i am a political junkie. i watch c-span seven days a week. listening to you all the way. but we do discuss politics in my

house. my friends are all there. the only people i cannot discuss politics with is out of ignorance. especially for the caller that guy -- if he was drunk or what, does that give the cop any reason to put his knee on his neck? this is the problem i have with republicans. thank you so much. >> coming up in our last hour of the washington journal we will be joined by alexander hafner, we will have a conversation about politics and civil discourse. how do you navigate it today on thanksgiving. for an episode of breaking bread he sat down with republican

senator shelley for a conversation over breakfast and she spoke about what it's like to share a meal and build a relationship for a member from the opposite party. take a look. [video clip] >> do you share breakfast with fellow senators? >> sometimes yes. it's a good time to spend some time together and so you can sit and have a very relaxed good conversation breakfast. i've done that quite a few times when i was first elected i had a lot of senators that i never met , i used mark as an example. did not know much about him. did not really know him much. he invited me to have breakfast with him and that was a really good way to get to know people. easier, more personal. >> maybe you can make him some elk in shallot as out there cooking on the disco. that kind of relationship where you're sharing a meal with

someone of the opposite party, i know you are a major proponent of that kind of bipartisan outlook. does it go on enough? >> i'll continue with the martin story. he has a bill that's really important to have restoring america's wildlife act. we always have little initials for everything. so he comes to me we have this relationship now can you help me. and we worked on it for a long time. we finally got it out of committee but those relationships we built early paid off later when he was asking me to work with him on a particular bill. so it does help a lot. >> is that because of shared values? >> there are certain issues we just can't get over the hump. some you just -- the dividing

lines are very distinct from a party standpoint but there's a lot of middle ground there that if you just sit down and hammer it out i have to give up something, you have to give up something. so set your priorities and work it that way. at the end of the day you are losing your priority or something is just too much we just say we can do it. host: that was an episode of breaking bread with the creator and host. we will have a conversation with him in our last hour of washington journal about politics. we want to know will your conversation at the thanksgiving table today be civil when you turn to politics. edward in manhattan, new york. caller: i'm edward and him so happy to be here thank you for having me. c-span i'm such a fan.

it's really a wonderful place to be. anyway, i am a republican conservative, although i have deep social roots and i've mixed people up. they don't really know what i am. my family was very liberal bull -- was liberal for the most part. i hate to say it but they watch the cable news network's and they have talking points for these kinds of things, they don't really know in-depth much about these topics that we are confronted with. but i have a secret weapon and the secret weapon is taylor's. i change the subject to taylor's and a shout out -- i had a wonderful article the wall street journal about making the case why she should be the

time person of the year. >> how do you turn the conversation to taylor swift? what do you say? caller: [laughter] just mention the name, i believe this woman has overtaken the country and i was reading in the economic numbers what she's done for gdp and for local economies. 500 million when she goes into town, with a woman is changing the country and everybody loves football at thanksgiving so -- host: now you can combine the two. caller: exactly. that is it. we are seeing before our eyes the creation of our own not an imported prince and princess, wherever this romance goes we have no idea.

>> we should all give thanks for taylor swift, she brings joy, jobs and happy feet wherever she goes. she is the best thing happening in america. that's edward's plan. he will start talking about taylor's. what do you plan to do when your family and friends start to talk about politics? bill in georgia, good morning. >> thank you for having me. i don't bring up taylor's. -- taylor swift. i don't even know what all that involves. she is a little too young for me. when it comes to thanksgiving i think why am i going, what is the draw here. it is family. there are some things, there is no rule against love, loving

each other. there are no rules against joy and having a good time. there's just when somebody starts getting on about something, just forgive them and put up with them. you don't have to confront them and everything. and i think our faith plays a lot into that. politics, oh my goodness they will let you down so fast. if you don't have something -- a standard to compare what's being said it is kind of the old thing how do you know if you're getting -- otherwise you'll take anything. there is so much to that end just keeping yourself -- maybe

some people drink, don't let them get drunk. things like that. it's just a time to be with family. host: if you do decide to talk about politics here is some news for you on the 2024 campaign trail front. here is politico, nikki haley consolidating the never trump vote. she is drawing support from trump skeptical donors and activists in early nominated states. you may have seen some polls in iowa, new hampshire, south carolina that she is gaining ground in those states. if you are curious about her message in those early states, tune in to c-span campaign 2024 coverage. you can go to our website and you can find our coverage of the candidates including nikki haley.

we have been with them at house parties while they have town halls, shake hands of voters in those early states. another headline for you on the politics front it's the washington times this morning. the former president leaves -- leads -- leaves is a and rivals in dust. mr. trump rivals cannot touch him but also cannot see him. the former president has refused to appear at a debate stage with them correctly reasoning that he has nothing to gain against the field he leads by more than 40 percentage points and growing. jack in stanford, kentucky. good morning. >> good morning. host: we are listening jack. caller: can you hear me now? host: yes we can. caller: we won't talk about

politics but we will be praying for that guy that said everybody will be a democrat. we all used to be democrats, our family and i don't know what happened to them. but to me -- most of us are christian people. i couldn't see how anybody could vote for a democrat the way they are now. it used to be democrats were a good bunch of people but now it won't be long until the be communist. if not already. host: perryville, arkansas. will you talk politics today? caller: yes.

our family will be getting together on thanksgiving and we have both republicans and democrats here in this family but we don't argue about things like that. the thing that bothers me more than anything else was because trump couldn't accept defeat, people have died. people have gone to prison, the whole world is turned into a lot of hype and turmoil that this one man could not accept defeat. it's a terrible shame and i hope that the people can see what he's doing to this country and hopefully another candidate will come and take the place of him whatever he's trying to do to bring this country back

together. >> we heard from a caller who said he plans to bring up taylor's if someone starts talking about politics. here is don on facebook saying he threatened to take out his accordion if everyone brings up -- if anyone brings up politics. hello mark. >> don't plan on talking politics but it's always -- it is these people who always say the democrats represent democracy and yet they want to shut everybody up. if you don't agree with them. and trump is the man, trump was the man. have a great day. host: full-page ad in today's washington post this morning taken out by news organization the national press club reporters without borders international press institute and others representing journalists. this thanksgiving for the 11th

year in a row there will be an empty seat at debra and mark's table. was abducted in 2012 while covering the ongoing conflict in syria. his family has not heard from him since. the u.s. government must pursue the sustained diplomatic engagement needed to bring austin home. pete in new wilmington, pennsylvania. caller: happy thanksgiving. i don't go out looking for trouble at my table but i am well prepared. i am a veteran and i would tell anybody they or anybody listening that i am disgusted that anybody would consider voting for somebody like trump because i know how he feels about veterans. i am a loser, a sucker and why did i go and volunteer for

service. host: how do you respond when someone disagrees with you at the thanksgiving table? what is your strategy? caller: i try not to engage and i tried to walk away because i don't want to ruin other people's -- i cannot sit idly by either if there is a potential skirmish. but i have also thought about not going so it's kind of a mixed bag at my table. but i don't play when it's anything with trump, there is no play, there is no middle ground. he is bad, he is evil and needs to go away. that's just the way it is. >> hello charlie. >> good morning greta, thanks for taking my call. at our thanksgiving we generally don't discuss any kind of

politics. this is a policy if you will that we had in place for a good while, about three years ago one of my distant on's was at the dinner table -- aunts was at the dinner table and she brought up trump and my uncle on the others to the family who is a staunch conservative actually ripped a baguette in half and shoved it down her throat. >> we are asking this morning how you navigate politics at the thanksgiving gatherings but you all have with your family and friends. we also showed you earlier a poll that found 60% of those surveyed don't plan to talk politics at all will. who do you blame for the divisiveness in this country. who is most responsible. 35% said social media. 32% blamed our political leaders

and cable news, 28% said it is cable news's fault that there is divisiveness in the country and 1% said other countries. how do you navigate politics at your thanksgiving gathering table. you want to learn more from this poll you can go to their website , they ranked number one young voters, they talk to young voters and people said that overwhelmingly they are going to avoid politics. do you plan to do the same this morning? we have about five minutes on our conversation. eastern central portion of the country. mountain pacific, 202-748-8001. as we told you there is a hostage deal in the works between israel and hamas and the

hostages could be released as early as friday if this were to go through. the biden administration's are hopeful from the washington post reporting that the release of the 50 women and children including two americans killed by hamas on october 7 will work smoothly enough to persuade both sides to extend the pause in fighting and allow others to be freed. they believe there are number 25 or perhaps another 50 or more women and children among the estimated 239 hostages. it says the remaining captives include male civilians including seven americans, female israeli soldiers and up to several dozen male members of the israeli defense forces. there is nothing the agreement that agrees they can be released that the bombings -- a total of the bombing has already been

devastating more than 11,100 people dead and 28,000 wounded in a besieged territory the size of philadelphia. 1.7 million out of 1.2 -- 2.3 million are displaced according to the united nations. almost half of all homes in the enclave are now damaged or destroyed. john in pennsylvania. good morning. >> good morning. i will stash we will sit at the table and i have a great granddaughter who was born in april and that will be the main conversation at the table. no politics, why should we ruin our dinner over a bunch of millionaires and people -- so why get yourself all upset and

break up a family over that nonsense. go to your family, don't even bother talking politics. it does not make a difference. have a good time, love each other and happy thanksgiving. host: we will continue our conversations on the washington journal this morning our last hour we will return to politics and civility. we will have an open forum where you can talk about any any political issues on your mind. coming up, we will talk with author and communication strategist frank luntz discusses . he will discuss the national mood. and then alexander heffner will tell us how to bridge political divides on this thanksgiving day. we will be right back. ♪ announcer: american history tv,

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>> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us from tel aviv is frank luntz, a communications strategist, here to talk about the national mood on the eggs giving day -- on this thanksgiving day. part of that is impacted by the war between israel and hamas. you are in israel guest: -- you are in israel. it tell us why. guest: i am here to express my commitment to the people of israel, who are really suffering. i've found a country i do not remember. there's huge sadness. this is there 9/11, but even more so. everyone i have spoken to knows someone who is either a hostage right now or lost someone on october 7. everybody i speak to tells me that they are not going out,

they are staying at home. it is much quieter. it's very sad. and i want them to know that just as israel has been behind the u.s., the u.s. is behind israel. we have it sympathies and his support for the palestinian people and thei aspirations for and quiet, just like americans on this thanksgiving. i wish to communicate. and i am so glad you offered me the chance to be on the show, to call to those who watch right now, the desire that everyone has to live in peace and decency. human rights and personal responsibility. so, i thank you for allowing me to do this. and i really do feel sympathetic. this morning i was at the kibbutz that was overrun on the gaza border.

and i saw the destruction. i saw the inhumanity that happened there, thanks to the army of terror hamas waged against israel. it makes me appreciate thanksgiving. not only am i grateful to be here right now, and to be able to take these young men and women out for their first thanksgiving dinner ever, the troops. i want to thank the men and women of our military academies, particularly west point, because we would not be celebrating thanksgiving if it was not for their commitment to our country. i hope you have a wonderful day. and thank you. host: frank, here is a headline, "hostages held it will not be released before friday." it sounds like there is a deal in the works, but it has been delayed. what have you heard from people

on the ground? guest: i met hostage families several times. and they are frankly scared. and they are afraid. and if are angry because they are learning about their fate, the fate of their children. and there are so many children -- so many hostages in gaza, it is inconceivable. there's 100 that are either children or women command they are noncombatants. they are expecting to come home today. now it has been delayed. and i was supposed to interview them this afternoon, but they are so distraught from what they are going through. i believe tomorrow will be the first day, but i am not convinced. there's the belief hamas will keep changing the rules to frighten and to create a sense of chaos and conflict in israel.

there's no reason to hold kids, there is no reason to have this conversation right now. some of these kids are coming home where their parents are killed, and if do not know it. they are coming home to homes burned to the ground. i have seen it with my own eyes. it's so inconceivable, but i hope tomorrow is the day that children get reunited with their families. and that this is the beginning, it may not be the beginning of the end, but at least it is the end of the beginning for this unnecessary violence here in israel. host: i want to show a bipartisan news conference held in d.c. you appeared there with lawmakers and families of some of the hostages held captive by hamas. [video clip] >> my daughter is 25 years old.

and at the end of the month, she will be 26. and she was aware again -- was working. when it started, she was shot in the leg. two bullets are in her leg. she was in a place with police officers. and she thought she was ok, but they told her, runaway. run away, because they are coming. since than i do not know what is with my daughter, i do not know where is she. i do not know if she is ok, alive, kidnapped -- i don't know nothing. and i hope everybody will help me to bring my daughter before her birthday at the end of the month. i want her home. host: frank?

guest: she was surrounded by 13 republican senators, nine democratic senators, some that deserve the most wonderful thanksgiving. john barrasso, the senator from wyoming, on the senate side, he and other individuals did everything they could to ensure that the democrats and republicans, that this will be a nonpartisan and nonpolitical statement in support of the hostage families. i came to washington. hundred 70 families poured their hearts out. and i have to say something right now because i believe, and i was told this morning, that the daughter of the woman who just spoke is not alive anymore. and several of the hostage families who spoke so eloquently in washington, d.c., in the

senate building last tuesday, have been informed that their children, brothers and sisters, husbands and wives, that they have found them not alive. this is such a wonderful thanksgiving in america, and such a painful thursday here in israel. please hold your kids close and appreciate them. appreciate the opportunities tha t you have family, friends, and you can hug them because you never know what will happen. and, um, that was probably the most significant day of my life in washington, d.c. and i am grateful for every democrat that showed up, every republican, because on that day there were no democrats or republicans. there was an expression of support, kindness and of empathy

for what these 170 hostage families are going through. host: from the washington post, the four day pause, exhaustion and dread. they know that the toll has been devastating, more than 11,000 dead in gaza. 28,000 wounded. a this siege to territory the size of philadelphia, 1.7 million out of 2.3 million displaced. almost half of all homes in the enclave are damaged or destroyed. frank luntz? guest: horrible. if you have any sense of humanity, you cry for the palestinian people and condemn their leadership. we have to show empathy. by the way, when this is done, because thanksgiving is about looking backward, but also looking ahead and being grateful for the things we have been

given. it requires the elimination of hama.s the -- hamas. the liberation of gaza. in that into, the people of gaza need to be left alone. they need homes, they need families and jobs. and, hamas needs to go away forever. and, i say this to the jewish community, that it's is essential that we start planning for the day when we can look beyond this conflict, we can get beat on this conflict, and people can work together and celebrate. and once again appreciate all the benefits of life itself. the palestinian people are being decimated by this war. and there is no other way to describe it. but the cause is hamas. the solution, frankly, is no hamas.

host: what about the roots of the cause, some point to that being the occupation of the west bank and the military surrounding of gaza, the blockade? guest: there was peace on october 6, october 5, october 4. the situation we have right now, i recognize and respect the feeling that the palestinians have not had a home. they have not had human rights. they had an election and they voted for the people who have committed the atrocities right now, and it is still unfair to them. they are being mistreated. and i recognize what you say. the difference is, to me, having been here, having spent a lot of

time here over the last 25 years, back and forth every year, their own leadership denies them freedom of speech. they deny them freedom of religion and christianity. the christian palestinians are being decimated, as well. and that the only way we will get beyond the conflict is to actually get beyond the conflict, to recognize human rights on both sides and across both borders. and to allow people on either border, anybody in the middle east, the chance to raise their children as they wish. the chance to have the freedom of work, the freedom of worship, the freedom of speech and press. because if you don't, the people will be open rest, they will be angry and they will revel. they revolted against israel. they revolted -- they would rebel against their own leadership if they were not killed.

and i will say this to the lgbtq community into feminist community, you do not have the same rights in gaza that you have across the border in israel. and when we seek to give everyone, israelis and palestinians, those rights, that is how you eliminate the conflict. so, i appreciate and respect the question. and you are correct, i do believe much of this violence is because of o pression. -- oppression. and because of a lack of fairness. but i have to look to the gaza leadership first and that is where we are. host: bernie sanders, that senator cowan makes a similar point, hamas has to go. he also says israel must also commit to the end of killing the palestinians in the west bank,

and free settlement there as a first step towards permanently ending the occupation. i'm wondering how all of these types -- the conversation you and i are having -- how is it impacting americans and the mood on this thanksgiving day? guest: that is a brilliant question. you and i can have this conversation, and i will have this with anyone. i've marched in palestinian demonstrations, so i have been there, i have seen it. there must be a way for palestinians and israelis to live side-by-side. that is what a two state solution is, it is not from the river to the sea palestine will be free, because that is the elimination of israel. and in fact, i could not imagine what it would be to be from canada, to have this conflict, this border constantly under attack.

it's about mutual respect. it's about the dignity of humanity. and in the end, it is teaching that peace is better than war. it's teaching respect is better than violence. and we have to be able to talk about this. in america, on-call and campuses, if you are jewish you do stand up for israel, you are afraid for your physical existence. that has never happened to me when i was a student, which was a long time ago, unfortunately. and the islam of faux that i hear across the country -- islamophobia i hear across the country. there have been attacks against people who worship islam. and that is unacceptable. how can we tear each other apart when our responsibility is to lift, to learn, and eventually to lead.

any crime created against -- crime against a muslim should be punished to the full extent of the law, and any crime against somebody who is jewish should be punished to the full extent of the law. we demand the quality for gender and we cannot allow any example to flourish on a college campus. be it jewish background or islamic background. that's not happening at harvard, not happening at auburn, not happening at usc. all across the country we see examples of hate being expressed by students. cut it out and find a way to address it. the university presidents, you are the only people right now i'm angry with. you let this happen by allowing these examples, you have allowed

it to happen on your campuses because you did not equate anti-jewish hate with racism, which it is. or with gender discrimination, which is. now we face this. it's happening. and god help us if we allow it to continue. host: kathleen is in chicago, a democratic caller. caller: yes, can i please get this out? mr. luntz is talking about the hate going on. i want to say something about the lady who did not know her child was killed. but tell me something, over in this country you have got children being killed every day by guns. and those 13 republicans is standing behind the lady who lost her child in this country, wing kids -- when kids go to

grammar school here, they are being slaughtered. but those republicans will not even vote to get rid of these guns who are taking these babies lives. how can they stand up there and act like they are so concerned about people in another country, but they are not concerned about the people in this country? host: we take your point. frank luntz? guest: i used to challenge that point, now i empathize with it. the best example is chicago, chicago is a war zone in america. chicago, so many innocent children are being killed by so many other children. the gang violence in chicago is out of control. the hate in chicago is out of control. and i think the leadership in chicago has been miserable in addressing this. but that is not the only city going through this. we have to re-examine what is being taught to these young people, what they are not

learning that causes them to have that much hate. we have to look at gun violence and egg knowledge that the second amendment, which guarantees the right to bear arms, does not guarantee everyone, at every moment, for any reason to carry a gun. i think there is a common sense approach to gun safety that would address 90% of this. and that not necessarily it will be satisfied, but we will have less guns on the streets, less crime committed with them. i do not believe in absolute, neither does america. so, 90% of americans believe that some laws can and should be utilized to address gun violence. and 80% believe that there should be some guns, and some

guns for the people who can own them. let's start there where we can agree, then take it from there. host: clearance in miami, an independent. caller: good morning. i want to ask him about the politics of the israeli-hamas war. i am worried it will become president again. i've seen recent polling that shows donald trump's leading joe biden, and i think part of it is because of this war. young voters are deserting joe biden because they are more pro-palestine. i wonder if you can speak to why younger voters might be more pro-palestine and are deserting president biden? can you speak to the politics of that? guest: great question. it is two questions. at the younger you are, the more

pro-palestinian you are. the more democratic, the more left-wing, the more pro-palestinian you are. and i youf are a woman, you are more likely to support the palestinian position. overall, almost every group is more pro-israeli. the difference between israel and hamas -- if you compare israel and hamas, every single group supports israel more. israel versus palestinians, young democrats commit 18-39, a majority of them support the palestinian position. and every other segment of the american publisher supports israel. you are correct. as far as the impact of hamas, israel and palestine on joe biden, that is not the reason why younger people are leaving

joe biden. they are leaving him because they think he is too old. that at 81 he does not have the same vigor. they are concerned when he will be 82, 83, 84, 85. this is the number one complaint. and you are correct on the polling, donald trump is beginning to move ahead of joe biden in almost every survey. some have them tied. perhaps donald trump is 1% or 2% in deleted. but the new york times shows that in almost every state donald trump is leading joe biden, in some cases beyond the margin of error. that is a statement about joe biden's age. and you can get around on the policies. but it will get worse as time goes on. and for the first time ever in a national program, and i say this with 50% likelihood, who wins --

it is 50% joe biden and 50% donald trump. joe biden is the weakest candidate that the democrats could put up against donald trump, so your concern israel. host: who are the other candidates for the democrats? guest: gavin newsom, the governor of california.gretchen whitmer , the governor of michigan. cory booker, the senator from new jersey. mitch landrieu, the head of the infrastructure and former mayor of new orleans. in fact, other than the vice president, just about every democrat holds a lead over donald trump, except for joe biden. host: is age a factor for the former president, president trump?

guest: here is the amazing thing, he is almost as old. i believe he is 77, yet his gauge is not held against him. his achilles heel are the 91 indictments, the court cases, the civil court cases. his achilles' heel is really will he be convicted between now and election day? here is the amazing thing, the the vast majority of americans, almost 70% wish it was not joe biden and donald trump against each other. the vast majority of americans do not want a rerun of 2020, and for good reason, it was the single worst debate in american history. yet, donald trump is the favorite on the republican side, and joe biden only has a member of congress running against him on the democratic side. it the thing that americans do

not want is what they will get in 2024. host: trump leads his republican -- leaves his republican rivals and dust. we can talk about that, but also what is happening with nikki haley. here is politico, the former governor of south carolina and ambassador to the united nations is consolidating the never trump vote. what do you think about her candidacy? guest: it is significant. her primary opponent -- in an debate hey has gone at her personally, and in any debate she has challenged him. she has proven she can take the arrows and slings of her opponents, and in every state her numbers are gaining. i thought it would be ron desantis who would be donald trump's biggest opponent, but i think it is nikki haley. you cannot count out chris christie, the former governor of

new jersey. but the next state of south carolina, and she is gaining on donald trump. make no mistake, donald trump, you would have to give me $5 for every $1 for me to bet against donald trump right now. ron desantis, who was an effective governor of florida, has been nowhere. has been nowhere in these debates. people have been abandoning him. so you have to look at the first three states. unless someone comes close to donald trump in iowa, new hampshire or south carolina, i think that there could be three states, then donald trump. host: what is the likelihood or possibility that if the former president gets the nomination, and it sounds like he is on that track, that he picks nikki haley, who has the never trump

vote, as his running mate? guest: i will speculate. that is what you do on a thanksgiving morning on c-span. that you will not appreciate her. that he will hold things against her and choose chris christie. donald trump does not like to be criticized. he does not like people who challenge him. he fires you. you attack him once, he threatens you. twice, he bothers you, then he ridicules you. no one lasted with him in his presidency, he fired everybody. the chief of staff, secretaries of state. no one stays. if you criticize him. and i do not think that he will forgive nikki haley for some of the stuff she has said. and i think that chris christie has -- and i think that the

senator from south dakota will be his running mate. but i am willing to bet he will choose a woman as his running mate. host: we will go to alexandria in minnesota, a republican. caller: good morning. they never emphasized on the thing the gun violence, that it is parenting, a loss of parenting. my mother raised 10 of us, and she always emphasized never take anything that does not belong to you. my father was very strict with the rules of his guns. we have lost the parenting. the shootings in chicago, what these kids were taught when they were young. they have not been taught anything. host: frank luntz? guest: i believe that. the three callers, i have

agreed with all of them. we have lost decency. we are more than halfway through our program and everyone has been respectful on their calls. i know that viewers of snbc e hate the viewers of fox and vice versa. you learn respect at home and in synagogues and churches. i do not think it is being learned. and i think that on this thanksgiving we should celebrate what makes the holiday so special. it's family. it's decency. it is civility. and it is respect. if you do not respect your parents, who are you going to respect? if you do not respect your teachers? if we do not learn basic skills at the offset, then society is heard as a result.

we see it not just in america, but across the globe. to that color, i am grateful for what you said. but in the and we have to be responsible for our own behavior. you hold me accountable for what i say. i cannot blame it on my parents or what i was taught. it's my responsibility to carry myself, what i do, who i help, who i disagree with and how i disagree. let's use this day as a chance to have that conversation at the dining room table. a chance to talk about the importance of treating each other with the golden rule of always searching for answers, always being curious, but in the end not condemning someone because we disagree with them. host: frank luntz, there was a poll recently, and when they asked americans who they blame for divisiveness in are cut, what do you blame, most of them,

particularly the younger people they surveyed, said it was social media. guest: well, i need to send you a check, because these are all the issues we should be talking about. it does not matter republican or democrat, social media is toxic. social media is poisoning our children and it is not doing good for us either. now, we used to get the news to inform us. now we get the news to affirm us. over 90% of most news websites are either democrat or republican's. we are not seeking to learn, we are seeking to own the left or dominate their right. and social media does not promote privacy. it does not promote empathy. it takes every issue and makes it more extreme, makes it a

conflict, and makes of those who disagree with us our enemies, which is not the case. at least in most cases. the problem is they know how to get clicks. that's exactly what they are doing. frankly, it is time for washington, or time for somebody, to say enough. at least for children, we have to look at some safeguards, so that our kids are not so addicted by the time they are 12 or 13 that they cannot turn off their phones. i do not answer the phone when i am doing an interview or having a meeting. i watch young people, they cannot look up. they do not see the world around them because their eyes are stuck on a device. a look around you. look at real life. use this to get information. use it to get knowledge and

wisdom. but do not use this to get all of your news. let's start, frankly, with tiktok. it's very entertaining. and i understand that young people like it. but young people, their right to vote, they prioritized tiktok over democracy. that is a crisis. host: lance in florida, and democratic caller. go ahead. caller: good morning. happy thanksgiving, america. a few things to touch on, what we have been talking about today. as far as the palestinians, i am growing tired of hearing about how innocent they are. it was reported in the past week, they polled the palestinians and a 75% of them supported hamas. it was reported that there are

elections tomorrow in the west bank -- if they had elections, hamas would be elected. they are oppressed in china, they had the nerve to stand up and henneman square. they they rebelled in -- an id have not seen one palestinians stand up against hamas. as far as gun control, it is easy. one, when i was younger, i grew up in new york, the law was passed if you committed a crime with a gun, one year in jail mandatory. that has been repealed because it is too harsh. and we see what happens with $950, they do not put you in jail in california. the other is the toxic culture among the black community, where guns are the way to settle things. change those things, admit that this is a problem. and watch it change. i think you are wrong, i think

that donald trump will pick nikki haley as a running mate, because he wants to win. i hope, personally, he is knocked out, and i can but for nikki haley instead of picking the lesser of two evils. happy thanksgiving to everybody. good to talk to you again. take care. guest: i appreciate that question. and i was down in the plaza today, the could bits that was so decimated by the attack from hamas. and i will add a factoid to what you said. the hamas commandos came first, followed by a few minutes later the standing army, followed by

gazans, palestinians. and someone looked at this as a shopping mall, that the homes burned, the people are dying and dead, they could not put up a fight. they took their motorcycles, cars, whatever they could take from the house. and i will be posting photographs of this later today. but i cannot anymore condemn an entire people for their crimes of some. i saw the poll you saw, i do not believe anyone would ever acknowledged they would not vote for hamas because they would be killed. there is no democracy, no freedom. there was one election, hamas took over, and it has been a reign of terror. i do not think they could go

against hamas, i do not by the polls -- buy the polls. when they chant from the river to the sea, that palestine will be free, that means the elimination of israel. but let's not condemn an entire people because of people in america or some people act that weight in gaza. i want to think better about humanity. and i wish, particularly on thanksgiving. and about your point on guns, i think that our criminal system has been decimated. and i will use in san francisco as an example. it's the most amazing city. it was very expensive. but you went and it had great restaurants, great pride. and san francisco has been devastated. a prosecutor who will not

prosecute. you can steal up to $1000 and nobody arrests you. if you get out of a store with items in your hand, you are not allowed to chase them. they took a beautiful city and brought it to its knees through a lack of policing. ordering the police to stay back and allow criminals and crime to take place. at the point that they used to be much tougher ongoing loss is well taken. if can commit a crime with a gun, you should go to jail. the public does not approve of the way san francisco is run. it does not approve of the laws there. but the political leadership does not seem to care what the people think, and that is why it is what it is. host: his third point about

nikki haley? guest: i do not mind speculating. there is so much i can talk about. but that speculation is fun, but not helpful on a thanksgiving morning. host: iris in michigan, an independent. caller: good morning. happy thanksgiving. i just turned 90. host: happy birthday. caller: thanks, yeah. frank, shave your beard. splash your face. get out there with my fellow jewish folk. and show we look like everybody else. someone told me to go back where i came from. and i reapplied to this lovely person, i told him i was born in children's hospital in detroit, michigan.

and key just stood there with his mouth open. those -- he just stood there with his mouth open. those are my people over there. that's what is left of my family. a gentleman came to our schools and prompted us to create a homeland for the jewish people. and i remember telling him, i thought this was my home. he said, shut up. well, my cousin judy did go. and i will tell you something, let' show the palestinians, plays fair. does that make you feel good when you throw people out of their homes and declare it for yourself? get the tools, do your own like we did. host: frank? guest: as far as my beard, i'm overweight. and i did not think i would be talking about that on

thanksgiving, but people make fun of me that way. they do not have any other way to criticize me, but the beard hides at some of the weight. i will keep it on a little bit longer. i've mentioned on the show that i had a stroke a few years ago. i could not shave. and i have left it on since then. i constantly think of reginald denny -- kill them all. on thanksgiving, it's a time of reflection and to remember that in this country, that there is such a close bond between the jewish community and black community. in the 1960's, if you looked side-by-side with malcolm x an martin luther kingd, there were leading jewish voices that marched against racism and segregation.

and the blacks and latino communities, block and brown communities, the allegiance there, working together for rights on the border and for the migrant workers. we used to have allegiances and alliances that brought people together. and you are not a republican or democrat, you were an american. and i say this to them at and women in uniform, because you are the ones that have to defend this, to put your life on the line -- we are so grateful to you because you do not see party. you do not see color. and you do not see gender. you see an american commit and you defend us, right or wrong -- american, and you defend us, right or wrong. thank god in this country we have the military academies. i know we are coming to the end.

but you are the best of america, you are the best american students, the best of our future. and for you, i wish the happiest, healthiest and most successful thanksgiving of all, because i could be here in tel aviv thanks to you. and i can say stupid stuff, thanks to you. i can even be wrong, thanks to you. god bless you. host: frank luntz, thank you for the conversation today with our viewers. happy thanksgiving. guest: thank you also. host: we will take a break. when we come back, you little bit later, author and journalist alexander heffner will be talking about civil discourse and bridging political divides. more on this thanksgiving day. but first, we will take a break and when we come back we will hear more of your comments on thanksgiving. we will be right back.

♪ >> dr. sarah opal b has spent eight years studying the creation of the oxford english dictionary. her book is called "the dictionary people." she has a phd in linguistics from oxford. studied over 3000 original contributors to the dictionary. her comments in the introduction about what she found -- "i was thrilled to discover three murderers, karl marx's daughter, a president of the yale, the inventor of the tennis net adjuster, and a pair of lesbian writers, and e cocaine addict found dead in a railway station laboratory." >> on this episode of booknotes plus, available on the c-span

now free mobile app for wherever you get your podcasts. announcer: c-span's campaign coverage continues with the presidential primaries. watch on the c-span network as the first votes from the country are cast in the upcoming presidential election. the results, beginning with the iowa caucuses on january 15, and new hampshire primary on january 23. campaign 2024 on c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. ♪ announcer: american history tv, exploring the people and events that tell the american story. in "dream town," we look at how shaker heights is addressed the issue of racial integration from its founding through recent

school curriculum controversies. and discussion on president kennedy's white house tapes with the university of virginia presidential reporter ken h ughes. watch american history tv every weekend, and find a full schedule on your program guide, or watch online anytime at c-span.org/history. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back on this thanksgiving day, 2023. we are continuing our conversation we have had all morning how, do you plan to navigate politics on this -- morning, how do you plan to navigate politics on this thanksgiving day? if you will talk about politics, how you plan to avoid debating, the heated debates and hard

feelings? you can join the conversation. if you live in the eastern central part of the country, dial 202-748-8000. in the mountain pacific area, 202-748-8001. and you can text us at 202-748-8003. or join us on facebook.com/cspan or on x. quebec university recently did a poll about thanksgiving day, and asked if people plan to talk about politics. six out of 10 people said no, they plan to avoid the conversation altogether. are you one of those? 60% said they do not plan to talk about politics. steven in baltimore, let's hear from you. do you plan to talk about politics today? oh, we lost stephen.

wanda in california, do you plan to talk about politics? caller: we always talk about politics, and we all support donald trump. but the reason i am calling is because of the people who have so much in for the palestinians, the liberals, they need to read the koran -- host: we are talking about how you plan to navigate politics at the thanksgiving table. that is our conversation for the remainder of today. we have a little over an hour left. mor of your callse coming up. dial in by region or post on facebook, on x, or join us by text, 202-748-8003. before we get to more calls, mitch co. kind, a senior analyst with carolina journal is joining

us. how we do describe the political mood this thanksgiving in your state of north carolina? guest: well, it is a very interesting political mood. i think that there are a lot of people willing to take a break for a day or so to enjoy the thanksgiving day feast, but we do not get much of a break here because candidates filing for the 2024 elections is scheduled to start on december 4. it will be leaping upon us quickly. i think people are concerned about what is going on in the middle east right now. one of the major pieces of news in recent weeks involves the democratic party. a jewish group that wanted to line formally with the state democratic party was denied that opportunity. there was a major vote, and among the leadership, 17 voted

no, 16 voted yes. another 16 abstained. so, a lot of the conversation right now is about the impact it could have on the democratic party moving forward. especially given the fact the front runner for the gubernatorial nomination on the democratic side is our attorney general, josh stein. so we will not be able to avoid the issues of jews, muslims and israelis, and palestinians, even though that is not really north carolina politics. it will probably still have some sort of rule. 2024 will be a huge year here. our democratic governor, who has proven to be popular regardless of how people thought about joe biden, he could not run again. so it will be an open governor's race. the two front runners are josh

stein and mark robinson, who has proven to be controversial, an african-american man who has sort of vaulted into the political scene after giving a speech supporting the second amendment. he is known for firing up crowds, but has also made comments considered very controversial. so those seem to be the front runners paid we have a number of other statewide elected offices of that are also open, including the attorney general and lieutenant governor, since both of those gentlemen are running for governor. and we will have new maps, for the congressional seats and all 170 seats in the general assembly, because of gerrymandering fights. right now, our congressional delegation in the u.s. house is split evenly between seven democrats and seven republicans. at the republican general assembly just came out with a new map that will generally help

the republicans win more seats. there has been a lot of thought on what lies ahead in north carolina politics. we might get a brief reprieve for thanksgiving, may onb black friday as people think about shopping, but beyond that we will be back to politics before you know ite. and we will officially know who the candidates are in a matter of weeks. host: what will be the central issues in those elections you outlined? guest: i think that we will be talking about, at least on a state level, whether you stay the course or make a change. we have had now for more than a decade republicans running the general assembly, and they have followed a path of lowering tax burdens, reducing regulatory burdens, expanding educational choice -- all of those played out again this year, including the budget finalized in the

fall. they will say it has been successful for north carolina, so let's continue that momentum. on the other side, the democrats will say, no, you have harmed public schools, you have cutback investments in education and other areas of north carolina politics and public policy. they will also complain about steps taken on the abortion front. we know that as other states have been dealing with the issue, here in north carolina the general assembly passed a law that limits most abortions after 12 weeks. that is something that has fired up folks on the democratic side, so i am guessing that will be a major issue. but a lot will come down to whether you stay the course or remove in a new direction. in terms of the governor's race, it will come down in a lot of respect to personality. josh stein will be seen as sort of the person who is following the normal course we have seen

for a governor, where mark robinson is a different guy. he's serving as lieutenant governor and he will definitely be seen as an outsider, who will want to challenge of the way things are done. i think all of those issues will be in the mix, as those in north carolina decide what they want in 2024. host: mitch, a senior political analyst, you can follow his reporting if you go to carolinajournal.com. and on x. thank you for that update. we appreciate it. guest: happy thanksgiving. host: happy thanksgiving. you heard from him what is happening in north carolina, the issues central to voters there, that may come up at the dining room table in that state today when people gather for thanksgiving. will you be talking about state or local issues, political issues, or national debates we have been discussing this morning here, as we do every

morning in a national conversation? patt in connecticuti. good morning. will you talk politics today? caller: yes. and i never believe anything that comes out of frank luntz's mouth because he is always wrong. donald trump will pick kari lake as vp. if you think hillary clinton was back my you are in for a rude awakening from nikki haley. host: does everybody at your table agree with you? caller: they will when they hear the facts. i mean, nikki haley is devious. i do not trust her. i think she is hillary clinton in the making. i've seen her before when she was governor. she had problems with her marriage, but nothing was ever brought up. host: let's stick to this conversation. so, will you ask those at your

table who they will vote for? caller: i do not have to. it is trump. what that proves is trump did win. he beat biden. that is why the polls are so high. host: how does it prove that? how does it prove that he won? caller: i am going by the people, how much trump is winning by. they were the ones that voted for him before. but we see what happened, the democrats cheated. host: kevin in washington, d.c. how do you plan to navigate politics today? caller: i believe in free speech. and i think frank luntz was wrong not to criticize the caller who -- against black people. he said, thank you for your question. frank luntz talked about hillary

clinton's relationships, like he was a spin doctor with scandal mongering. i will talk about free speech. i live a few blocks away from george washington university. they have had peaceful protests. and i think it is important to allow people to express their views. host: ok. kevin in washington. in the first hour, we showed you part of an event with the national governors association. they are launching a new initiative called disagree better, where they want republicans and democratic lawmakers to deliver messages together, and they think it could help with political discourse in our country. here is the nga chair, spencer cox. and the vice chair[video]

>> we will transition to questions from our students. i feel like the audience member who asked may be worried about thanksgiving. what should you do of the conversation starts to derail or get heated? >> [crowd talking] turn on -- >> turnout football. -- turn on football. >> be curious and ask questions. why do you feel that way? try to get them to understand your position. politics does not have to be and should not be a toxic topic. is it a hard topic to talk about in a constructive way? sure, but people should have meaningful dialogue. you can look at some techniques that shows to work in this area. there is a link through this site of the nonprofits that do this work.

spencer and i had a great script that we sat down and did. there is no reason the maga uncle and woke knees cannot have these conversations. -- niece cannot have these conversations. >> growing up in college that is what we did. we did other things, too. we would debate and go out to dinner together and hang out. not hate each other. with my family this should be interesting. it should be fun sometimes. obviously, we have problems in our country. we need more participation, not less. a healthy participation. we have a small group that is probably dissipating too much. they are living and breathing it. don't define yourself. jared talked about identity. historically, our political

identity was way down the list of how we define ourselves in this country. growing up we were rams or aggies. we were dads and moms. we were americans. that is who we were. eventually you get down to, oh yeah, i'm a republican or democrat. if that is how you think about yourself first, you are doing something wrong and it's really unhealthy. politics has become a religion for far too many people. nobody was to hang out with you if that is all you want to talk about. host: you talk's -- utah's governor saying no one was to hang out with you if all you talk about is politics. nina in florida. caller: hi. how are you? i have a couple of comments when it comes up at my family's

thanksgiving dinner, how the polls say trump is doing so well. they only poll very few people and then they try to spin that over 75 million people. also, i will remind my family, because we are all dog lovers, i don't think trump loves dogs. he's always calling terrorist dogs. anyone who has no compassion for animals is not on my bucket list. i will remind them about that. host: you have a happy thanksgiving. josephine, livingston, new jersey. caller: good morning and happy thanksgiving to everyone. my feeling about thanksgiving. i'm alone. my thanksgiving is making sure another family had a thanksgiving. to what i really wanted to say

is i read a book many years ago, "the rise and fall of the third reich." i always had a question about it. pocket educated people vote a man in like hitler. i never understood that. 75 years later, i now have the answer and i'm sad to say people identify with a wannabe dictator. that is very sad for me to say. host: gary in jacksonville, florida. do you have people coming to your home or are you going somewhere else? will you bring up politics? caller: happy thanksgiving, greta. i will not bring it up. to me you have to have a moral compass. you have the leading republican candidate he was a convicted rapist, tax dodger. someone who says he does not

believe in the constitution but committed insurrection. how anyone can still support somebody like that. and all the republican candidates for president said even if he was convicted for a felony they was still support him as a nominee. how could you take that party seriously? host: why won't you bring up politics? we lost gary. susan in montville, new jersey. caller: good morning. happy thanksgiving. i will be spending thanksgiving with my boyfriend's mother who we live with and take care of. she watches c-span every single day. she is listening right now and i love her. all of my other friends i want to spend thanksgiving with our taking care of their elders. we will avoid politics by focusing on what matters to us now which is love and care to each other. we are grateful to be together. our system today does not help

us to take care of our elders. prescription drugs prolong their lives but what about their mental health and our mental health and our well-being? some of us can afford long-term care or get insurance for it. some of us can't. i think that goes beyond political boundaries. i think maybe all of us today can think about how we will be when we are 80 to 90 and how we will take care of ourselves and how our kids will feel about that. i love you, mom. host: thanks for calling in and thanks to your mom for watching. we will go to laura in iowa, windsor heights. she is with the bleeding heart publisher and editor of khoi, a radio state has corresponded. i'm bubbling over that. happy thanksgiving. appreciate your time this

morning. tell us the mood in iowa. guest: most people are not as engaged with politics as the people you and i and the people that watch this program. we have had an unseasonably warm autumn. we had pretty good weather for thanksgiving travel. the mood seems good. among the political people, the iowa caucuses are coming up, that's always a topic of conversation. host: our people gearing up for participation? what have you heard about those that will go to the caucuses and take part in them? guest: it is different here this year for the democrats. we don't really have much of a campaign going on. the iowa democratic party will hold caucuses on january 15, the same night as the republicans. really only for party business. things like electing delegates to the county convention and passing planks to the platform. all the action is really on the republicans side.

the politically engaged people, and that includes independents -- people can change registration and participate in the republican caucus. we will see probably fairly high turnout on the republican caucuses. it depends on the weather. you never know what it will be like on a cold monday in january. host: what are the polls showing on the republican side? guest: the polls have told the same boring story all year. donald trump is way ahead. he's running almost as a defective independent -- de facto independent. there is not as much movement as in previous campaigns like 2008, 2012, 2016 where there were lead changes. i noticed watching donald trump's campaign rallies at his campaign is really organizing on a completely different level this year from what it was in 2015. he is drawing not only the crowds but they are drilling

down and getting people to sign commitment cards and talking about the nuts and bolts of what it means to attend a caucus and why they should bring their friends and so on. i feel that donald trump remains in an extremely strong position. host: what percentage or how strong is the never trump vote in iowa? who will get that vote? guest: that's a great question. the polls in iowa show, depending on which polls -- the des moines register or nbc news is one of the most respected. it shows donald trump in the low 40's. others have shown donald trump above 50% already. it is clear i would say at least a third of republicans or independents who plan to caucus are not happy with donald trump. where they are going? nikki haley seems to have the upward momentum. that is why you saw our governor kim reynolds took a very unusual step in iowa of endorsing ron

desantis for president. also a very prominent social conservative leader bob vander platz endorsed ron desantis. the only surprise to me was that it happened in november rather than in the run-up to the caucus. i think that indicates that maybe there's a lot of concern in the desantis camp that nikki haley is gaining at his expense. it has been a weird campaign. most of the candidates are not directly taking on donald trump. chris christie, who has been the only contender, the only prominent contender who has directly criticized the former president has not been campaigning in iowa at all. the candidates who are here say things like trump was not very effective, there were too many distractions, too much drama. now ron desantis says he could serve eight years were donald trump would be limited to just one more term in office. that really falls short of a full throated explanation to

republican voters of why this person should not be the party's standardbearer. that works to donald trump's advantage. probably the other candidates' internal polling is telling us what the public polling is telling us. most of the base is perfectly content with donald trump and they don't view anything he has done as disqualifying. host: are the other candidates going after each other in campaign ads? guest: i would say the most back-and-forth criticism has been between nikki haley and ron desantis. the santos is running an odd campaign. the super pac never backed down a spending most of the money on advertising rather than the desantis campaign itself. when i'm exercising and applying the word game on my computer it's like i'm always getting an ad from nikki haley that says ron desantis can't quit lying about nikki haley. that also works to donald

trump's advantage. that's a fairly common -- it has been thought in the past there are three tickets. i think this year some people perceive it is really there are two tickets out of iowa. whoever finishes in second place between haley and desantis looks most likely that that person will be best position going forward. especially since nikki haley is already in second place in new hampshire. host: laura bellen giving us the lay of the land. happy thanksgiving. guest: thank you and happy thanksgiving to you. host: calls. -- back to calls. will you be talking politics? caller: no. i hope not. we need a day of just being thankful for being here in america and it's a beautiful day in maine. i think we just need to maybe put more thankfulness and god in

our life. i live on a farm now. i was in manhattan for 40 years plus. now i'm back to nature. it is beautiful. we all only have one vote so you're going to ruin your life over one vote? you have to be happy and spread happiness. hope that somehow there's a greater movement that will help us. host: carol in new york. caller: how are you? happy thanksgiving. host: same to you. caller: we are not -- well, the problem is they will be people at the thanksgiving table that i don't know. i have never met them before. definitely we will not be discussing politics. but i am desperate to discuss politics with the other side. i just don't understand why

people think trump is so great. i want to understand. we are all americans. i am appalled. you can't do it. it is a dangerous situation. if you don't know a person -- i had an experience where i was flat-out honest about how i felt and the woman just did not say anything. she happens to be my son's mother-in-law. she was definitely a trumpster. i was embarrassed when i found that out. who knows what she things of me now. i was pretty vocal. host: stay with us this morning. we will take a break and we will get some advice on how to navigate those conversations with alexander heffner, the creator of raking bread with alexander -- breaking bread with alexander. we will be right back. ♪ >> book tv every sunday on c-span2 features leading authors

discussing the latest nonfiction books. at 8:00 p.m. eastern, u.s. capitol police officer harry dunn provides his first-hand account of the january 6 capital riots in his book "standing my ground." at 9:00 p.m., a discussion on masculinity with nancy piercey and christina summers. they argue that males are falling behind in american society and discuss the reasons why. watch book tv every sunday on c-span2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at booktv.org. ♪ >> since 1979, in partnership with the cable industry, c-span has provided complete coverage of the halls of congress. from house and senate floors to congressional hearings, party briefings and committee meetings. c-span gives you a front row

seat to how issues are debated and decided with no commentary, no interruptions and completely unfiltered. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. ♪ >> if you ever miss any of c-span's coverage you can find it any time online at c-span.org . videos of key hearings, debates and other events each are markers that guide you to interesting and newsworthy highlights. these points of interest markers appear on the right-hand side of your screen when you hit play on select videos. the timeline makes it easier to quickly get an idea of what was debated and decided in washington. scroll through and spend a few minutes on c-span's points of interest. >> traveling over the holidays? make c-span's bookshelf podcast part of your playlist. it features non-features books

in one place. bookshelf features episodes with critically acclaimed officers -- authors discussing history and culture from her signature program about books, afterwards, and q&a. listen to our podcast feed this holiday season. you can find it on the c-span now free mobile video app or wherever you get your podcasts, and on our website, c-span.org /podcasts. >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back and joining us on this thanksgiving is alexander heffner, the creator of "breaking bread with alexander" on bloomberg tv about what unites americans rather than device in this that has plagued contemporary politics. and the host of "the open mind" on pbs.

thank you for the conversation this morning and for being here. we just heard from a viewer who said i want to be able to talk to the other side but the one time i did it did not turn out so well. any advice for her and others? guest: keep at it. civil discourse is the great deterrent in public life in a civil society. you can see the mayhem overseas. not just this year but often we have had a domestic tranquility here. i think it's incumbent upon all of us as citizens to recognize the realization of life, liberty and happiness is dependent upon us learning across differences, being compassionate listeners and ultimately empathy. we need empathy as our emotional, social political

intelligence to build bridges, in order to construct consensus and ultimately forge compromise in the legislative process you and your colleagues on washington journal talk about every morning. host: how do we do that when we have lawmakers in washington almost coming to a fistfight? two members of the same party. you had a senator, a conservative republican senator challenging a labor union leader, all in the same day . guest: it's tough. it has gotten tougher as a result of hyper partisanship, toxicity in the dialogue. it has become vicious. it has become vitriolic. you asked the essential questions. how to be prescriptive? the first lesson is never to dehumanize and leverage that to

exploit hatred and the political theater. unfortunately, the campaigns he referred to run by a lot of the electeds it would sound acrimonious or bellicose, they then throw that on x, formerly twitter, for throw that on a campaign newsletter or solicitation for funding to rev up the base. they are dependent upon a market of ideologically rigid folks who actually don't make up the majority of the country. so if we recognize we are part of their equation in a failed, dysfunctional political system right now, which decade after decade over the last 25, 30 years -- in pew surveys you will see less regard for members of congress -- it's important for us to recognize dehumanization is lashing out against civil society, lashing out against democracy. we have the opportunity as

citizens to demand more from our legislators. i think it's a matter of calling your rep or senator nsync don't speak in that way, a way that is unhealthy for policymaking and the future of our democracy, but as citizens around that thanksgiving table with our neighbors and every day to model how we want it to be instead. that is the tricky part. we have to demonstrate, like your callers acknowledged, we are citizens and the recipe for success in our democracy does depend on us. i will give you one particular example. we are entering holiday season. we often think about these universal acts of citizenship. many of us celebrate the holidays either in a religious or secular context. we want to pay back and acknowledge our neighbors in some way. we think that voting after the holy celebrations is the most

well-known and universal active our humanity or citizenship. in fact, i think it is taxpaying. i think more pair cans -- americans pay taxes than vote. with paying taxes we don't get an acknowledgment from uncle sam, i thank you. this is something my cocreator and i talk about. if we want to have that sacred trust with our government and believe they are doing right by us, why don't we every time we file our taxes have a delineation of our expenditures and understand how they are serving our community even if they are not serving us? it is those kind of acts of apolitical or nonpolitical, nonpartisan citizenship and recognition on the part of our electeds -- i will not fight my colleague in a leadership battle or interrogate a witness and threaten him with violence. if we want to veer towards that we will head into the direction

of what has been going on in gaza or ukraine and russia's invasion of ukraine. we want to think of instruments for notches just civil discourse but how we can better the morale of our country. i think we are capable of doing that. this is what it requires. give requires imagination. i think we have lacked a politics and a media of imagination that can help facilitate constructive positive change in the lives of all of us. that is what we ought to endeavor to do. host: we went our viewers to join us in the conversation this morning. this civil discourse. if you are a democrat, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independent, (202) 748-8002. you can also post on x. you can text at (202) 748-8003. just include your first name, city and state. we will go to

facebook.com/cspan. are you concerned about a headline like this in the hill? frustrated lawmakers run for the exit. d.c. is broken. guest: it is concerning but it underscores the reality of the experience of a lot of legislators who want to do good and who retire. it has become a nomos cliche notion that if you want to get things done and roll up your sleeves and work with the other party that you have to resign or do so from outside of the political process. it is troubling from that perspective. i think that there are ways that congressional offices can try to create the structures beyond the bipartisan breakfast caucus. you have to start with that as the entry point. on bloomberg, you can watch "breaking bread," with me having meals with 10 governors and

legislators and senators. it started with a meal. beyond having an experience where your learning how your neighboring constituents live and having delegations go to districts that are governed by republicans, democrats and independents, i think it's important for those people who are retiring not to go into lobbying sectors to fight for a single industry or to champion their party with which they are associated. but to actually find common ground and vehicles to express that common ground. the american people don't believe they exist. my challenge to those folks who are retiring or running for the hill as you say is to find a salvation and promise in ways to create effective governing

structures outside of d.c. participatory governing, budgeting and democracy is ultimately what is necessary if you want to preserve republican order in this country we live in with this government. i would say we have seen that story before in the tales of folks like senator daschle and senator lott and others who come out of d.c. with disillusionment. i would like to know what they are doing now to help solve the problem. it can be solved from within and outside of these congressional chambers. host: let's talk about someone still in congress and trying to do what you are talking about. you said that with her for one of your episodes of "breaking bread." that is shelley moore capito of west virginia. i want to show some of your conversation with her. [video] >> in the senate, do you share

breakfast with fellow senators? >> sometimes. it's a good time to spend time together. you can sit and have a relaxed, good conversation breakfast. i have done that quite a few times. when i was first elected i had a lot of senators i had never met. i use martin heinrich of new mexico. did not know much about him. he invited me to have breakfast with him. that was a good way to get to know people. easier, more personal. >> maybe he can make you some elk enchiladas for breakfast. we are out there cooking on the disco. that kind of relationship where you are sharing a meal with someone of the opposite party, i know you a major proponent of that kind of bipartisan outlook. does it go on enough? >> i will continue with the martin heinrich story. he has a bill that is really

important to him, restoring america's wildlife act. rawa. we have little initials are everything. p comes to me. we have this relationship now, a bit more personal. can you help me go through my committee? we worked on it for a long time. we finally got it out of committee. it was a bit of a struggle but those relationships we built early paid off later when he was asking me to do him -- i wouldn't say a favor but work with him on a particular bill. yes, it does help a lot. >> is that because of shared values? >> there are a lot of issues we do that with. there are certain issues that cannot get over the hump. tax issues are difficult. sometimes you're dividing lines are very distinct from a party standpoint. there's a lot of middle ground there. if you just sit down and hammer it out. i have to give up something, you've got to give up something. set your priorities and work it

that way. if it ends and something is just too much, just say we can't do it. host: alexander heffner? guest: thanks for playing that, greta. i'm heartened to hear that senator capito and senator heinrich -- i want to give them recognition for being bipartisan leaders in a climate that is not incentivize that empathetic listening and compassion. she said it well in terms of the challenge of the landmark hot button issues that have been third rails in american politics. in the bush administration there was an attempt by a compromising gang to pass copperheads of immigration reform. there have been attempts to pursue social security and

entitlement revitalization and reform. they have failed. i think that as we gear up for our season two of "breaking bread" featuring senator murkowski of alaska and senator kelly from arizona, i think there is a hunger during this 2024 campaign season that is already underway for there to be counter programming that is revitalizing for our democracy. the seeds of that are cultivated in the conversation with senator capito. her mindset and outlook, which is positive, it is can-do spirit. i think while she is referring to one piece of legislation that may not seem in trickle in the day-to-day lives -- in trigal in the lives of day-to-day americans, it can be

done. host: welcome to the conversation with alexander heffner. caller: happy thanksgiving. my point is this. i think one of the most instructive things that ever happened in american history was during this pandemic. to have civil discourse you have to have free speech. neither side can stifle the speech of the other. you basically have to be able to present your arguments in a free and open way. there can be no restriction. there really is a -- isn't disinformation. there is just information we have to deal with. i would like him to comment about the crux of all of this depends upon free speech. guest: i think our longevity as a republic is a testament to that, sir.

i am grateful to you for mentioning that on this thanksgiving morning, because we are a nation that guarantees free speech. what we guarantee is that each individual and institution has that right to speak his or her mind. we also have the right for all of our institutions to have a set of basic, decent values that govern -- common decent values that govern and incentivize in the theater of dialogue and discourse. as long as we make that separation and differentiate between the god-given and constitutional protections of speech, all forms of liberty, petition, assembly, your practice of faith, and how we motivate or incentivize folks to

speak with a sense of pride about their country, about their community and about decency and honor dignity in not starting in exchange was summoned by dehumanizing them or ad hominem personal tax, that is -- personal attacks, that is so important. i will go back to senator capitol. she was in the hustle and bustle of the city and now she's in the country. i think she said maine. nature gives us this awesome value. as someone who came from a city and is now experiencing the heartland and all of its varieties in america i can so relate to that. and be all inspired and humbled by that nature. my perspective is not necessarily right. more times and not it may be wrong on a given issue. my framing of a question, the way i'm thinking about something as a journalist or citizen.

therefore i want to be a listener first. i admire governor polis and governor cox for their campaign. disagree better by the national governors association. they are onto something about the discourse in this election year which we anticipate to be heated. as the peanut gallery, as the folks around the table or watching on social media, we don't have to endorse the hatefulness in the rhetoric. we can model the kind of discourse and policymaking we think is going to further strengthen the country and the resolve of our people to be better and to do better. host: tim in tulsa, oklahoma. a republican. caller: yes. it is awfully hard to be civil whenever you see the democrat

party and their control of the fbi and the doj. all that has gone on that if you don't agree with me, i will use the federal agencies and the democratic prosecutors to put you in jail. we have that example, supporters that protested. we have that example going on. all these democrat prosecutors are pursuing our leading candidates. i'm still a proud trump supporter. the best three years we had before the pandemic and all the politics that went into the pandemic took place took place under trump. to have -- we have to have civil discourse. then you see the hypocrisy. host: i think we heard your point. guest: it is very difficult when

there is a politicization or perception of partisan politics in the justice system. that is something we have attempted to avoid because it taints our democratic will and our ability to forge, watery as a people -- forge camaraderie as a people. the think one set of norms is governing a clinical par -- political party and one is governing another. justice samuel chase and adams and jefferson rivalry to learn about the fact that this politicization or perception of politicizing the justice system, it has deep roots. we have to as a people understand that whether it is the republican party in control of the justice system or administration or the democratic party, i think the weight

democrats might respond to your point as a relates to the trump administration and investigations of former president trump is to look at the gridlock of the justice garland -- the failed justice garland domination -- i should say judge merrick garland and the gridlock that was blocking the hearing. a simple hearing where still could have been a no vote. he would not have gotten through the process of becoming confirmed as justice. but that was a politicization of the utmost level of our justice system, the united states supreme court. the law of the land. i think you can point out examples as democrats, republicans and independents where there was an objective justice that was stymied, frustrated by partisan politics.

as long as we are intellectually honest i think we can point that out together. as americans, not as democrats or republicans hearkening to a dignitary in maine who was on "breaking bread," governor janet mills talking about margaret smith in the senate to give the most memorable speech about us first having to be americans and believe in american patriotism, not fidelity to a political party. host: joe in tampa, florida. democratic caller. guest: hi joe. host: good morning in tampa, florida. we are listening to you, joe. caller: can you hear me? host: question or comment. caller: this is a great guest. my comment is, on this thanksgiving day we need to have

a dialogue with respect to suffering all over the world. as you all are aware the issue with the israel-hamas has taken over two months of everybody going back and forth. now there actually is a peace deal, which is a good thing to exchange prisoners. i also want folks to think about all the hotspots globally where people are suffering somewhere in the western hemisphere like ka -- haiti. have a dialogue. even in the united states if you go to the inner cities, a lot of issues that if you look back to -- yesterday was former president kennedy's assassination. what did he do in his short

term? he did a lot for the underprivileged. i have not seen any political leader this day so much as coming close to doing anything for them. host: i want to update folks on this hostage deal. cnn is reporting they are carrying a conference out of qatar live right now with the qatari official sang 13 women and children will be released tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. eastern time. the beginning of this pause in the bombardment and the release of hostages to begin shortly and going into friday. guest: thank you for sharing that update and gratitude to joe from tampa for his comments. i think they were most perceptive.

and for the news there may be relief in that conflict. he is absolutely right that the base, at the foundation of indecency or incivility in life is an equity, -- inequity, is hurt as a result of war or disease. we experienced that as a country as the pandemic struck. that was a universal reality. now that we have been vaccinated and people are resuming more or less normal lives, we are turning our attention to those hotspots that are not waking up at the day of gratitude and a warm turkey to serve with cranberry sauce and stuffing. it is an awakening. it is something that crystallizes when we can embrace

our peace as americans. our distinctive peace. that is worth crediting the founding fathers and mothers with, the hope and our forebears who preserved the country amid disunion, amid civil war. righting the wrongs of the atrocious institution of slavery and for recognizing for life, liberty and happiness to be achieved we had to endow that for every american, regardless of creed and color. what joe is saying is worth recognizing. having both an american and global perspective about the state of incivility in a lot of places. i think why populist rhetoric has grown in its accessibility and enticement to americans and folks around the world is a

result of that inequity. you can't expect to have civil discourse or civil society if you have such deep fissures, such deep divides, such economic disparities. the caller not only referred to situations overseas but in inner cities. and through democratic and republican administration's over the last three decades there has not been a mr. or misses fixit president who has done the work that they said they were going to do. in some drastic measure there have been patch up projects for this republic. working on bread-and-butter issues of significance. holistically, we have a lot to have gratitude for. the promise of america and the reality of many circles in america the work continues.

i think that is worth emphasizing. host: kevin and baltimore. independent caller. caller: good morning. you were touching on this a little bit that i think my comment is about how civility is weaponized against the people who are oppressed by our government and by our society. when those people try to speak up and say my life is being threatened, my conditions are very poor, please help. they are shouting from the rooftops i'm in trouble, i need help. it turns into a little bit of violence or other kinds of "in civil" ways of expressing it. why don't you peacefully protest in the areas we designated for you to protest in this town? don't make us uncomfortable. don't inconvenience us. we are busy being civil over here. i am curious what your thoughts

are about that. guest: thank you. i appreciate that. if civility is used to wage any kind of -- i should not use the word war. if it is used as a shield to prevent you from having the genuine honest exchanges with people on the other cited an issue, that's wrong. if it is used as some kind of guys for political correctness, that is also wrong. i think sometimes civility is used as manners, which i think is ok. i think the idea of restoring decorum in this climate is imperative. a certain level of tolerance in the conversation you are having. to your point, not the idea if you can only protest in an area where your civil disobedience or

your activities are going to go unnoticed or punished, we have to channel our activism in ways that are recognized and recognizable and ideally protected under the first amendment. the idea i think you're getting at is the prevalence of echo chambers and silos in american life today. the idea that civility -- the civility police are deployed to actually protect that very problematic infrastructure right now of what i call the hollywood squares partisan polarization. the right and the left and the democrats and republicans. we can -- it will be tough. it always has been. as churchill said, it is still the best thing we've got going for us as human beings. recognizing what makes us distinctive as homo sapiens, as

human beings is our capacity to negotiate in our mind. to recognize, as senator capito eluded to, it is how we manage perspectives that will decide if we are effective in the dialogue and ultimately the policymaking. i think i may have mentioned this on this air on washington journal. america is a contest of aspirations and resentments. as lincoln said, angels and demons. the appeal to our higher ideals. if you want to call it decency rather than civility, i'm fully on board. rescuing the soul of the country is not a partisan pursuit, even if president biden identified it as a theme of his campaign in 2020. the republican in 2024 ought to want to resuscitate us.

restore the soul of the country. but be watchful of one thing as we enter this 2020 for campaign. who were the people talking about consensus and compromise and bipartisanship? they just want a seat at the table themselves. who is motivated by wanting to resolve problems? my fear with some of the activity people have mentioned no labels and other third-party candidates in this spirit. the question of do they want to fundamentally fix the problems around the table or just replace the egos at the table? we have to answer that question. it has not been answered yet. what is your roadmap or blueprint for solving problems in a way that has proved intractable in these recent decades? to your point, those groups and loyal citizens who want to fix the problem, they ought to roll

up their sleeves and find ways to legislate solutions, whether that is in the town hall, at the municipal level, city hall or the united states congress. host: our guest this morning is alexander heffner, host of "the open mind" on pbs and the creator of kamala with -- the creator of "breaking bread with alexander." caller: i have a question of a two incidents. on january 6, we expected one congress meant and at least senator cruz to challenge the election, the 2020 election. but there was an incident on january 6. laura logan has done a documentary about ray epps. that he was -- you can watch it online. he was there at january 6.

he was encouraging trump supporters to go into the capitol. police officer say they were set up. you can see informants telling trump supporters to go into the capitol and they were resisting. another incident that happened was in minneapolis. there's another documentary called "the fall of minneapolis." you will see that the restraints the police officer used were actually written in their training manual. several officers say they were trained. host: ok. guest: thank you, roy. the important thing to recognize is whether you were instigated in interacting or not --

insurrecting or not, and depending on your party that word is debatable. trespassing is what the legal term was for what occurred. when there were weapons deployed in the halls of congress, get advanced to an even more -- it advanced to an even more advanced criminal activity. the point is that whether what you said or not is true, and i have not seen that verified, that it is the responsibility of each citizen, whether it is on x or other social platforms, our collective footprint, whether it is doing good and protesting in a way that is actually going to increase our capacity for understanding, or the alternative of basically what we

have seen in both camps over the last years. if you are an arsonist violating the rights of a store owner in a protest or whether you are trespassing the sacred halls of congress, we have to be honest. i said before the golden rule of american political life could be intellectual honesty. it is not right now. we could make that the golden rule. it is not. we should be outcome-driven in our thinking. you also mentioned what transpired in minnesota. you did not specifically refer to george floyd so i don't know if that was the incidence -- instance you are referring to. there may have been manuals that permitted corrupt practices. i think about the few good men seen where -- scene where tom

cruise asks the witness where you find this, the mess hall at the station at gitmo. he said i just sort of followed the crowd. not everything is in the rulebook when it comes to your activity as a united states marine or police officer. i think we recognize that so let's be intellectually honest. it is not a manual but maybe the crowd that was as much determining the behavior of police officers at that moment during a very hot, diseased point of the pandemic when a lot of people were protesting the condition of black and brown people. host: we will hear next from jeff in maryville, indiana. democratic caller. welcome to the conversation. caller: thank you for taking my call. i think one of the reasons we

have so much toxicity and political discourse is the misinformation being spread everyday over the media. i think one of the reasons it is the way it is is what happened in 1988. that caused a rise of right-wing media, talk radio and outlets like fox news who spread information -- misinformation on a daily basis. this is where we are at. host: i think is talking about the fairness doctrine. guest: the fairness doctrine, and admirable idea of having a republican who has two minutes on a public policy issue and a democrat on an issue and the nivea debate. we know the internet was not set up to moderate a lincoln-douglas

conversation or even a kennedy-nixon conversation in the form of a debate. i think it is not feasible in the present climate to incorporate that into the discourse. to apply something like that. there is also a perception you point out that the fairness doctrine was designed to force out perspectives that were gaining recognition as a result of the rise of talk radio and specifically conservative talk radio. what we can do, which i think is so important, is understand that we in a way have lived with classifications of our movies and our tv shows for years. there has not been a ground swell of antipathy towards the classifiers.

maybe one or two movies. the point is this. we ought to classify what is fiction and nonfiction. a long time ago, formerly twitter, all these platforms came along and the -- in the internet agent said we are going to be the theater where you can -- any citizen can be the arsonist in spreading vile disinformation, in not only -- against a single group but many groups. expressions of bigotry. can we understand and classify platforms for being fiction or nonfiction? whether that is youtube videos or twitter or x posts. it is all permissible under the first amendment. whether it is fiction or nonfiction. whether it is information, mis or disinformation.

it's important to recognize characters who are intentionally -- that's the word -- intentionally disinforming people often for a profit motive over their personal benefit as opposed to the knowledge of the community. that is what is the decisive factor here. i don't think you can ever have a fairness doctrine or something think that in a media that is shaped by the millisecond after millisecond. what you can have is a system of classifying information and recognizing when there can be a unified -- like a library. your library is going to have magazine sections, going to have fiction and nonfiction. we were at a point in our nation's history able to delineate those lines better. let's try to do that again. host: quinnipiac university did a poll where they found most

people blame social media for the divisions in the united states. 32% said it is political leaders. 20% said cable news. what you make of those numbers? guest: i think that is right. the american people have the right -- there is this incestuous, parasitic relationship between the three of those things. that is why it is so hard to solve the problem. when i hear your callers in good faith, in earnestness devoted to this wonderful lat form of washington journal -- platform of washington journal where you listen to experts talking about important issues. i take faith and i have gratitude listening to these callers on this thanksgiving morning. they want to better their situations and recognize we do have to take into our own hands when we want to elect the people

who represent our values. when we want to espouse a position on a platform. that we want to have guardrails that endorse free speech and also basic human dignity. we want to be in a country that has the capacity for common sense legislating, bipartisan outlooks on issues that can really better outcomes. the three areas you describe, i think the social media and the electeds are crucial. recognizing that every cycle is a new opportunity to change the system so that we have both electeds and media platforms that are going to stand up for a value system. i think there is this feeling

that the ship has sailed when it comes to social media. twitter was a publicly traded company. now it is owned by one person who can really set the agenda in a unilateral way. if you look at alphabet, which owns google and youtube, if you look at meta that owns facebook and instagram, there are shareholders, boards of governance. there are ways to protect the democratic process in demanding not just from our elected officials but are social platforms a way forward that is not divisive. it remains to be seen if enough people care to change the way it is. it may be that one person like in elon musk will listen on a given issue but the board of directors of a meta or alphabet

will ignore a set of issues. i'm not saying x as it is called now is unchangeable, immutable the weight is governing. clearly it is putting speech before any kind of guardrails of decency now. that has been i think the concession on the part of the making people. the idea that we are withdrawing from these platforms because they are controlled by other people. we can't have a bite at that apple in fixing the problem. it is not just on election day when we can try to endorse candidates and vote for candidates who want to solve problems. it is approaching bodies like the fcc, facebook, twitter, others in saying there was a point in this country when we wanted to classify information and we wanted to understand the role of information sharing in whether we are a divisive

country or a unified country. the ship has not sailed if we can keep it at dock and make some changes. host: to learn more from alexander heffner you can go to alexanderheffner.com. thank you for the conversation and a happy thanksgiving to you. guest: happy thanksgiving, greta. much appreciated. host: we are grateful every morning that you watch, you listen and you participate in this national conversation here on the washington journal. we will have another one starting tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern time, every morning here on c-span. happy thanksgiving ♪ [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023] ♪