c-span fan and every purchase helps support our nonprofit operations. shop c-span's cyber monday store -- sale or scan the code on the right. coming up on c-span's "washington journal," your calls and comments. we will speak with brendan duke at the center for american progress about the economy and bidenomics and paul diperna from edchoice talks about efforts to expand school choice in the u.s. and the recent survey of teachers. washington journal starts now. host: it is monday, november 27. the senate is back in session at 3:00 p.m. eastern today. we will begin washington journal

on the issue of gun ownership in america. a new survey shows more than half of american voters say they or someone in their household owns a firearm. this morning, we want to hear from those americans about why you own a gun and about the process of obtaining it. if you are a gun owner in the eastern or central united states, the number to call this morning, (202) 748-8000. if you are a gun owner in the mountain or pacific reason -- region, (202) 748-8001. and a special line for those who have been through the process of purchasing a firearm in the past year, (202) 748-8002. you can also send us a text at (202) 748-8003. if you do, please include your name and where you're from. otherwise, catch up with us on social media. on x, it is @cspanwj. on facebook, it is facebook.com/cspan. you can start calling in now.

this is the headline from the washington times here and polls show a record high gun ownership among u.s. voters. more than half of american voters say that they or someone in their household owns a gun, the highest percentage in the history of the nbc news poll that dates back to 1999 with a 6% spike from 2019 when americans answered the same question and a 10% rise from 2013. the poll divides among political party lines. 66% of gop voters say they or someone in their household owns a firearm while 45% of independents and 41% of democrats gave the same response. that is the washington times. in terms of why people own a firearm, if you -- a pew research survey took up that question. pew research found that nearly three quarters of u.s. gun owners site protection as a

major reason they own a gun. 72%, according to the survey. 32% say the major reason they own a firearm is for hunting. 30% said it is for sport shooting. 15% say it is part of a gun collection. 7% say they own a firearm for their job. we are asking you why you own a firearm. if you are one of those more than half of americans who live in a household where somebody does own a firearm, (202) 748-8000 is the number in the eastern or central time zone. it is (202) 748-8001 for those in the mountain or pacific region. if you bought a gun recently, if you have been through this process, we want to hear from you about that, (202) 748-8002 is that number. already some comments from folks on facebook when we posted this question on why they n

firearm. this is jessica,riting in tha she owns a firearm because the rld is cotic and i am proud to exercise my constitutional right to defend myself and my family and my home and anyone that may need help. miguel saying he owns a firearm for protection, hunting, and shooting. kristi saying because it is her patriotic duty. and this from shelley saying, i do not need a reason to exercise my god-given constitutional ght. where i live, it takes 911 an hour to get help here and i am playing victim. we are asking for your post on social media and for you to call in. phone lines split regionally. in terms of the process of obtaining a gun, this is also from the same pew research center report. a majority of americans say it is too easy to legally obtain a

gun in united states. 30% say the ease of legally obtain a gun is just about right. 9% say it is too hard. the p research center poll found 58% say gun laws should be stricter than they are today. 26% think they are about right while 15% favor less strict gun laws. that is a pew research center poll from the past summer. the nbc news poll about the number of american households where there is a gun, that from just the past week. we are asking you to call in this morning, regional phone lines and a phone line for those who obtained a firearm in the past year. jerry is first out of kansas this morning. caller: good morning. host: do you own a firearm? if so, why? caller: i do own a firearm because i am an american. host: how long have you had your

gone? how many firearms have you had in your household? >> i have one. i have since i was 15 years old. host: is it the same firearm you have had since you were 15? caller: no, i have switched a couple times but i only own one at a time. sometimes i use it for going deer hunting. it depends on use. host: do you think the process of obtaining a firearm is about right. is it too hard to buy a gun? is it too easy to purchase a firearm? caller: where you live -- where i live, it is about right. some areas, it is easier depending on who you are buying the gun from and things like

that. where i live, it is just about right. in my opinion. host: where do you live in kansas and what makes it right for your part of kansas? caller: i live in -- how do i describe it? in the north eastern side. and what i feel makes it right is that there are certain laws to owning a gun and most people where i live are not criminals or anything like that. a lot people here do not have felonies and things like that, so it makes them about the average person to go out and buy a gun if they choose to and not if they do not choose to. host: alan is in brooklyn. a gun owner in brooklyn. how easy or hard was it to obtain a gun where you are in new york city? caller: to clarify, i am from

brooklyn but visiting my mother in florida now. i am glad to reach your program. i'm glad you are discussing this in terms of guns and firearms. firearms include other kinds of explosives, things that consume oxygen and emit carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. and virtually everyone in the country is a user of firearms in the sense that everything that we use that burns carbon is emitted into the atmosphere and is killing species and people and the climate. i think we ought to consider the fact that -- hello? host: we are drilling down on guns, more specifically. >> i think we begin to have some kind of conversation that includes in this discussion about the harm we do to include not only guns that are historically intended to do harm

to others but the harm from combustion devices such as cars or boilers or anything else we use because we do not have alternatives put in place to stop it. my reason for using all kinds of carbon meeting devices that do harm to the atmosphere and others right now is we have not gotten far enough in terms of financing and transition to get off of those things but i consider myself as guilty of doing harm to the climate as long as i cannot get off of carbon emitting devices. host: got your point. do you own a gun specifically? caller: i own firearms in terms of a hybrid car that has a cycle that burns fuel and i run out of electric charge and a house that has a boiler that emits carbon. host: got your point. certainly a topic for another day, but we are going to drill down on gun ownership in this country.

edward is waiting in ohio. good morning. are you with us? caller: yes. host: you are a gun owner. how many guns do you own? caller: several. host: why do you own your guns? caller: i use it mainly for target practice. i had a weapon in the marine corps and i choose to have a weapon for home defense. host: why do you feel you need several, for people who are not gunowners? caller: i like guns. i have several rifles and pistols and i shoot with my son. i taught him how to shoot safely when he was five. host: do you think it is too easy or hard to purchase a gun in this country? caller: i think it is too easy p there are not enough background checks. host: you would like to see a universal background checks system in place? caller: a more thorough

background check. host: what should we look for? caller: any kind of abnormality, either mentally or physically, any kind of stress that somebody might be under at the time they purchase. there should be some kind of questionnaire besides just a couple yes and no answers. host: what do you think of red flag laws and the ability to take a firearm away from somebody if a court deems that they could be a danger to themselves or others? caller: if you have been convicted of the massive violence and you show anger or animosity to a greater extent than normal, i think you be looked at closely. host: and have your guns taken away? caller: definitely. host: that is edward in ohio on

changes to gun laws in this country. this from the new york times. courts strike down gun control measures in two states of the story noting in the wake of a landmark u.s. supreme court decision last year that limits what the government can do to restrict guns states led by democrats have scrambled to circumvent or test limits of the ruling and if you have approved new gun restrictions. oregon passed a ballot initiative to ban high-capacity ammunition magazines supporters of the new gun measures suffered a pair of setbacks, underscoring the ripple effect in the supreme court decision. tuesday, the panel in the u.s. court of appeals for the fourth circuit in richmond, virginia ruled a 10-year-old maryland law related to licensing requirements for handguns was unconstitutional. on the same day last week, a judge in southeastern oregon concluded a ballot initiative approved by voters in 2022 that

would prohibit high-capacity magazines and require background checks and training to obtain gun permits violated the state constitution. that story in the new york times. he might have heard about it last week. asking you this morning about gun ownership. we are talking to gun owners about why you own a gun, how many guns you have, how easy or hard it was to obtain a firearm. in eastern or central time zones, (202) 748-8000. in mountain or pacific region, (202) 748-8001. if you bought a gun recently, in the past year, we want to hear about that process. (202) 748-8002. steve, california, good morning. caller: i am probably the only one on your program today that has sold all of their guns. i had about 17.

and i sold about half of them and half of them i gave away. along with about 20,000 rounds of ammunition. i had a lot of fun with them. i did a lot of squirrel hunting. and what caused me to sell the guns was that i am just getting too old to shoot. i was 71 years old and poor eyesight and the mayor of san jose is going to require -- trying to require insurance and i am on a limited budget. let me tell you a real quick story. when i was 11 years old and in san jose in the bay area here, when i was 11 years old i took a

22 rifle to school for show and tell. host: what did the teacher say at the time? caller: there was a different attitude about it. he did not say anything. the kids found it interesting and there was not the outrage that there is now for some things that go on in society. but that is how times have changed. host: on the comment you made earlier, you feel you're too old to shoot, do you think that is something that more americans should recognize, that there is an age limit to owning a firearm? caller: in my case, i was having

diminished eyesight. all of my rifles, i had a lot of calibers, i did not have a automatic. i think they should be outlawed. they are strictly designed for military and crowd control. there is no usage for an automatic. the .223 caliber is illegal in most states for dear. you would not want to shoot a deer anyway. it destroys too much meat. but -- can i answer anymore of your questions? host: just the question on some states trying to ban high-capacity magazines, your thoughts on the need for magazines that hold more than 10 or 12 rounds. caller: they definitely should

be banned. you do not want to have a magazine that has more capacity than a cop. you always want a cop to have more bullets than the bad guy. if you cannot hit an animal with 10 shots, you need to go back to the firing range. host: thanks for the call from san jose. talking to gun owners in america about why you own your weapon and what you do with it. this is larry in mississippi. good morning. caller: hello. i have one gun. i have a rifle. i use it for mainly just -- i bought it for hunting and i do not even hunt. i just bought it years ago. that is all i have. host: why keep it? caller: it is a collector and i will give it to my grandson one

day. host: what do you think about gun laws in this country? caller: sometimes they could be improved. the reason i think the young men are destroying people's because they are hurting inside because they do not have a family life and they look at people that have a nice family and get good things and i think they are just hurting inside. i think the children are not being taken care of and they feel they have been abused so they are taking their frustrations out on the public. that is what the whole thing is. host: and that is leading to these mass that keep happening? caller: yes, i think these children are hurting inside because they do not have a home life. they do not have structure in their life. i was raised with good parents and went to a catholic school and was taught well by the nuns and priests. i think these children are hurting because they do not have any structure.

i had nice things. my parents did everything for us. i think that is what is wrong with the children. they do not have stability in their life. host: when you say gun laws could be improved, do you have a sense of how? caller: maybe put restrictions to make sure background checks are good. if someone has done a felony or anything like that, i think they need to dig deeper into what they are selling, who they sell to, and to research that person individually. if someone has done something wrong, they should not be able to have a gun. host: thanks for the call. on the issue of mass shootings in this country, it was president biden that traveled to maine early this month to discuss that mass shooting come up to talk about mass shootings in america. this is some of what he had to say on november 3. [video clip] >> i have been at this a long

time. i know consensus is possible. this is about common sense, reasonable, responsible measures to protect our children, our families, and our communities. regardless of our politics, this is about protecting our freedom to go to a bowling alley, a restaurant, a school, a church without being shot and killed. let me close with this. scripture says the lord is near to the broken hearted. and saves the crushed in spirit. saves the crushed in spirit. our prayer is that the crushed in spirit survive this more rapidly than otherwise. as we gather here today, we know your hearts are broken. because -- we also know your

spirits are strong. the way this community has come together, the way the state has come together has been a marvel for the rest of the country. host: that was president biden on november 3. one other clip from the responses to the lewiston shootings, this is speaker mike johnson shortly after the shooting on fox news talking about the issue in america. [video clip] >> god be with the law-enforcement officers handling the situation in maine. our prayers have been with the families of the tragedy. we would be remiss if we did not mention it. >> you are immersed in democrats and this happens with almost every shooting. the media call by the left in this country, we need more gun laws, more legislation. what is your answer?

>> at the end of the day, the problem is the human heart. we have to protect the right of the citizens to protect themselves. that is the second amendment. that is why our party stand strongly for that. i agree with comments of your guests. this is not the time to talk about legislation. i want to the american people to know that all the members of the house are concerned about families involved and everyone. we pray for the law-enforcement officers doing that hard job tonight. >> you talk about the human heart. if somebody really wants to kill innocent people, there are ways they can do it beyond using a gun. i am sure this will become a bigger issue weaving forward. -- moving forward. is there any specific gun law you will look at or any new legislation you look at? >> i have been on the job for 48 hours. we will see. there will be lots of discussion

. your point is well taken. in europe and other places, they use vehicles to mow down crowds of parades. they have done that in the united states. it is not the weapon. it is the underlying problem. we have to address the root problem of these things. mental health is a big issue. we have to address that as a society and government. there are lots of measures on that as well. host: thou that the end of last month after the lewiston shooting. asking you this morning about gun ownership in this country. a new survey shows more than half of americans live in a household where somebody owns a firearm. talking to gun owners only about why you own your firearms and the process of obtaining a firearm. special line for those who purchased a firearm in the past 12 months. sheldon is on that line. >> good morning. host: the process of obtaining a

firearm, how was that process for you? >> it was pretty easy for me because i am a retired army vet and i have never broken any law and i own a 12 gauge shotgun and handgun. they are strictly for home defense. i am a believer in the second amendment, but i do not like automatic weapons like rivals -- rifles. they should be banned. host: because you do not think they are useful for home protection? >> they are ok. i went to iraq twice and carried an m4 both times. weapons are designed to kill vast numbers. a mass number of people. why would you own and ar-15? and police right now are

outgunned in most situations. only law enforcement should have ar-15's. host: so handguns, shotguns -- how do you do this with rifles? you're just banning the ar-15 style of rifle or is it all semi-automatic rifles? caller: i just do not like the ar-15 style of rifle. i have a problem. why do you have an ar-15? for what? host: when you talk to other gun owners, what do they say to you? caller: they say it is their right. i guess if you live in america, it is. i feel bad for people that have been victims of the shootings and i feel bad for the families. nobody wants to do anything about it, so i do not know what else to do. but i am going to protect my family.

host: this is randy in louisiana. you are next. caller: i am a gun owner. i own a shotgun to shoot skeet. i have a pistol, a semi automatic pistol. it is my right to have that. i am a law-abiding citizen. i do not like being lumped in with all the criminals out there. i do not like that. host: how do you feel like you are being lumped in? i think randy hung up. this is ted out of hawaii, up very early this morning. caller: glad to hear your show. i have been a gun owner for over 60 years, since the 1960's when i was a teenager.

and i only own a three shot clip. i am in the middle of getting -- i live in a very rural area. it takes me six to seven hours to drive to costco to get a prescription. it would take a cop an hour or two to get and it is common out here, takes a long time. so that is why a gun is necessary, because it is literally the wild west out here in terms of we have no protection. you protect yourself or you are gone. there is a lot of drug users out here that are somewhat insane. with guns can you do not need high-capacity magazines. if you have taken gun lessons and go out, if you cannot hit something with two shots you should not own a gun. you do not need high-capacity weapons. anybody that has guns for a lot of years knows that you only

need one or two shots. i have shot pigs out here. there are thousands of pigs in hawaii they are trying to eradicate. one or two shots does it, even from 400 feet away. i am in the middle -- in the process in hawaii is you have to take out 600 questions. you have to take a test and get over 80% on that test, which is really easy because they are simple questions. then you have to take that and wait weeks for a certificate to come from them and take that to the police station and they do another background check on you. and it takes weeks to get that done? you can get a certificate on your weapon. it is a long process. it is several months. in other places that would help. host: you do not think it is too long of a process? caller: it is a long process,

but i'm willing to go through it. i am not in a rush. if everybody had a process like that, it would cut down on problems we see and nobody needs an ar-15. a good pistol and three shot old-fashioned bold action clip that they had in world war ii is more than adequate if you know how to shoot. host: so semi automatic rifles is not something we need? caller: not at all. i have friends that have them and they are just -- they say they really like them. they are interesting, but i go, in this day and age, even though we are way out in the middle of nowhere and it takes hours to drive anywhere and there is no police protection of here so we have to protect ourselves, that is the only reason i want a gun, to protect myself. i have always felt that way. even though i do hunt and i used

to. i rather go buy my meat. host: what time is it in hawaii? caller: 2:30 in the morning. i weighed up for you because i do not go to sleep until 4:00 and get up at noon. i am retired. i love watching her show all the time. host: thanks for being up late with us. this is sean out of maryland. caller: good morning. i want to remind everybody that criminals do not follow laws. they have guns that they gained illegally. i believe one has the right to defend their family and protect themselves. i am a law-abiding citizen. i was a marksman in the military. i own an ar-15 and handgun, but i sold my ar-15 because i felt i did not need it. in maryland, gun laws are so

absurd. i do support the red flag laws, but most mass shootings are happening through people with mental illness. maryland, you can buy in ar-15 the same day with a clean background check but you have to wait three weeks to buy a handgun. in maryland, the supreme court says -- a judge just overturned the licensing requirements so it is absurd here in maryland, kind of strange gun laws here. host: when did you first own a firearm? when did you learn how to handle a firearm? caller: back when i was in the military in the navy. i qualified as a marksman. i had a pistol in the military but i did not own a gun for many years. until recently with the uptick

in violence. so two years ago i bought the rifle and handgun but i sold the rifle because i did not need that. to protect myself or my family. host: what you say to folks, and they have called in, who say it is their god-given right to own a firearm, so if i want to own an ar-15 i should be able to own that? caller: my take on that is that why do you need an ar-15? you cannot even hunt with an ar-15. why do you need a high-capacity magazine? if it is your right to own a gun, have something adequate to protect yourself. but i do think the red flag laws need to be in the mentor to detect people and take guns away from people with mental illness.

that guy in maine obviously had problems and nobody paid attention to it even when the army said he was in the mental hospital because of ptsd. why was he a certified arms instructor? it does not make sense. it does not make sense that you can walk out and buy it ar-15 the same day but you have to wait three weeks to buy a handgun. the laws are absurd and some people also own ak-47s. strange. host: thanks for the call. it is just after 7:30 on the east coast and we are talking to gun owners in this country about why you own a firearm and the process by which you obtain your firearm or firearms. it is (202) 748-8000 if you are in the eastern or central time zones. in the amount or pacific time zones, it is (202) 748-8001. then a special line for those who have bought a firearm in the past 12 months, (202) 748-8002.

we will take this conversation to the end of the hour. this is kate from twitter, saying our right to free pres and religion are important, but none of the matter very much i we cannot defend our own lives against aggression. fr pamela on twitter, a deer rifle and shotgun is what pamela owns. we no longer hunt and we do not feel a need for an arsenal. that is unnecessary. this from larry in michigan, saying iwnirearms to facilitate personal protection. i will give them up with the secret service and all protections for the supposedly ad have their firearms taken away. and saying many reasons he owns a firearm but it is better have it and not needed then to need it and not have it. i have had a gun pulled on me more than ce i have been shot at on my own. i have people that depend on me

now. for them, i carry. we will keep looking and taking her calls. this is doris in georgia. >> i still own a gun because of -- i'm a business owner in missouri and i still have it locked away and i really needed it to lock it away because my mom who had slight dementia was a feisty southern woman who grew up on the farm and wanted to know where the gun was. i was surprised that she had found it. perhaps i will not be talking to you today. so i still have the gun. she is in a facility now. i do not know what to do with it. i forgot how to use it, even though i had to go to a class and get training, had to put a

picture on my license because i owned a firearm and had to go through fingerprinting and now i understand. because i am in atlanta, i understand an 18-year-old could just about anybody can get a gun now in st. louis. and i do not have a problem with gun ownership. i have joined a gun club even though i am not ready to buy a gun or go through the effort of doing practice and everything. i do not think anyone needs an ar-15. i believe those people who do tend to want these ar-15's and it is my own prejudice. i think a number of them are sort of conspiracy nuts. they think the government is after them and coming to take them away. if these people and cyst on

having ar-15's, i would like to see that they purchase insurance and declare that they have the ar-15 so we know who has -- who is in ownership of these dangerous guns that can kill more than one person. those guns are not for protection. they are to kill a number of people or some people feel they are to protect them from the vermin in the country. that is my feeling about gun ownership. one day, i may train again but i believe you have to be trained but as you stated the last man who killed a number of people had excellent training and

background, so i do not know if training and classes will keep a crazy person from killing other human beings. host: you say you do not use your weapon but joined a gun club. why? caller: i joined the gun club because some of the crazy people during the trump administration were talking about -- in georgia , that killed that young boy, and it scared me and i said, some of these people here in georgia are crazy. they are out to kill people. maybe i need to be around a group of people who understand guns and understand what you

would need to do to protect yourself. from these crazy militia people. host: what did you get out of the gun club? are you still part of it? caller: i am a member on paper only. i did not even buy a gun. the gun i have is in missouri and my home in missouri. the membership wishes to see -- to be around other people who felt it is necessary -- who feel it is necessary to protect yourself. i am a black woman. from some of these racists who are around here. host: thanks for the call from atlanta this morning. this is jack in butler, pennsylvania on the line for those who have purchased a gun in the last year or so. what was the process like? caller: it depends on how you look at it. i got it from a flea market and

there was no process. i just had to have the amount of money. i wish you would ask me other questions that you have been asking, like why do i need my ar-15. because i am getting prepared for the next election and what could possibly happen. i'm not going out to hurt anyone, but i am going to protect my home. that is why i think we need in ar-15, because if 35 people decide to come to my house because they do not like who got elected i am not getting drug out in the street. host: do you think that is going to happen? caller: i think they are calling for it all over the internet. i think trump has been inciting all kinds of things. what if he incites a civil war? i do not want to join a civil war. i do not want to kill anyone, but i do not want to be bothered. not bothered, but i do not want to be drug out of my house and killed because i do not agree

with donald trump and i think that is highly possible. as far as the guns go, i own very many and i went out to own the ones that i needed to hunt whatever i needed to hunt for my retirement. i own handguns, none of them that i got at the flea market. my handguns are registered and i do belong to a gun club because i live in a city and it is legal to shoot in the city so a gun club gives me an opportunity to go somewhere that i can legally shoot. host: on the flea market, should people be able to go to a flea market and fork over cash and be able to have a firearm? >> it is not illegal, if that is what you are asking me. host: do think it is right? caller: no. it is alright for me because i

do not have no intentions to hurt anyone. i bought a double barrel shotgun and i'm trying to think. i'm really into pellet guns a great deal. i like the idea of if you shoot them the lose energy real quick. i am a varmint hunter. i hunt crows and groundhogs and things like that. i have a pasture filled, some friends that have horses and i try to keep the groundhogs cleaned out. they are useful. i have an ar-15, like i said, and i'm getting prepared to protect my home and my family. i also have a bulletproof shield that i can put out in front of me and i practice shooting from around it. i am a very peaceloving and very

nice man. all my neighbors i am fine with and i buy all the children a christmas present in the neighborhood. i am not a crazy person, but i just enjoy them. host: that is jack in butler, pennsylvania. about 15 minutes left in this segment. this is steve in south carolina. caller: it has been a long time. good to talk to you. kudos to the gentleman from hawaii who was a devoted viewer, so devoted he gets up at 2:00 in the morning. i thought i was a dedicated viewer, but i'm not like that. host: i hope you had a nice thanksgiving as well. what are your thoughts on this gun question? >> i do not know if i have shared this with you in the past. i am a gun owner. i have a concealed carry permit.

i rarely carry. i did it while back. south carolina is an open carry state. i do not open carry. when that law went into effect, people were up in arms but that is an unintended pun. nobody -- i have not seen one person with a gun hanging on their side. that is just silly. nobody would want to do that. i am concerned about protecting my family and the direction the nation is going in. i think it is a little too easy for some people to get firearms. i am a law-abiding citizen and i have guns gathering just 40 years. i have handguns. with regard to the ar-15, a majority of those gun owners go out and shoot it -- i do not see how they afford it. i have been to the gun range and

it sounds like a small war. the air 15 is the high-capacity magazine. you put a wooden stock on that -- people used to do that back in the 1960's with foreign-made military weapons to turn them into hunting weapons. they put a wooden stock on and say that is fine. it is not fine. it is a high-capacity magazine. but the rounds is no more lethal than several hunting rounds -- it is just hundreds of hunting rounds. host: do you think we should not have magazines that hold over 10 rounds? do you think the ar-15 is a style of weapon that should not be sold? what are you advocating for? >> i'm advocating just like a hunting rifle, a five round

magazine, getting rid of the high-capacity. here's the problem. i can buy an ar-15 in south carolina and other states. i think this law -- i think if you are a private gun owner and you sell a gun, let's go back to the flea market deal, you should have to complete a bill of sale, get that id, and send that bill of sale to the atf and fbi and they should collect those things so that serial number will follow that gun around. also, personal health information -- i know this is going to be tricky because when you start talking about medical records they are protected. if there's somebody that is mentally unstable, i think there should be a database that should go to the atf. if that person tries to purchase a head gun -- handgun there is a

red flag. i know doctors will disagree. again, a mother can buy a gun and give it to her child. sometimes it is just a no win situation. people can sell guns on the street. like i said, i can do it in south carolina. i would not do it in a flea market, but we have got to find a way to keep mentally unstable people who doctors will say, as long as he is that she will be fine. once she starts monkeying around with something and goes crazy. the last thing i will say, before we give another dime to any country around the world, the safest school in the world is in indiana. you can look it up. i sent a link before. it costs a lot of money. look at the safest school in america. there needs to be funding to make every school like that

school and then i will say let's get money to countries around the world. host: this is don in nevada, recently purchased a firearm. what did you get and what was the process like? caller: yes, i had a complete background check. i bought a .22 semi automatic rifle and i also own a gun for the rats in the backyard. but i would like to preface this to let you know that i have been calling in for between 33 and 35 years now and i want your program regularly and the reason i bought my .22 semi automatic

is because we have a daylight robbery across the street. we had a nighttime holdup that people were surprised three doors to the left of us and about 12 years ago we had a crazy guy down the street with a shotgun that i understand we were sleeping and he was arrested in the front of my garage. so mostly for protection and i had quite a few background checks with the fbi and also as an airport employee and also as the liquor control board in the state of nevada, so mostly i buy

the 22 rifle semi automatic for protection and the pellet gun for the poison rats that were roving around in the backyard. host: thanks for the call. just about 10 minutes left. plenty of calls to get to and we appreciate you waiting. this is jody in tennessee. what kind of firearms do you own? caller: i have a shotgun. it is only for sick animals that wander onto the farm. so i do not have to bash them in the branch with a rock because that is traumatic and it was easier to get that done that it is to vote. it is easier to get guns that it is to find a doctor when you are sick. host: do you think that is right? is that how it should be? caller: no, these people are mentally ill or physically ill and the capitalists make money every time there is a mass shooting and the problem is the

guns. we got three college kids that got shot because of the racist calling people vermin on this tv show a minute ago. host: this is leo in north carolina. you are next. caller: talking about guns. i own close to 50. i got my first one when i was 21 years old and i am 68 now. i have had a concealed carry permit since 1995 and renewed it about five times already. i got too many fourteens, a springfield 308. i have never been in trouble, so i can have them and afford them. i feel i should have them. host: why do you need that many? caller: i don't need them. i just like having them. host: are you going to keep

collecting guns? caller: yes. i bought one back in 1978 and i have never shot it. i have a bunch of guns i ain't never shot. i just let collecting. i got a gun safe i keep them in. guest: for folks who do not own weapons, do you open it up and just look at them? caller: clean them. i enjoy having them. host: that is leo in north carolina. this is edward in arizona. you are next. caller: i have been a concealed carry owner -- holder for 20 years. it is a very vetted process that you go through. i own a gun for self protection and it is a concealed carry

permit so you carry concealed. you do not carry open. i do not know why people are so against self protection. with the crime, with criminals that we have running loose, all you have is yourself to rely on to protect yourself. it is -- we have a god-given right to that. i do not know why people are so against that. the police cannot be everywhere to do that for you, so you have to take response ability to do that for yourself and for your family and for your -- whoever you have around you.

the process is very thorough process. we have to go through a background check, which is -- you have to submit fingerprints. takes a pretty good while to go through it. i have been carrying concealed for 20 years and i go everywhere . the places i don't go are the places where they have signs on the outside the say no weapons. i am noticing there is a pattern. i do not know if everybody else notices, but it seems that every place that these mass shootings happen, it is always in places which says no weapons. and the people who are mentally deranged or criminals are going

to -- that is where they are going to gravitate to, so people need to think about that when they are out and about in the world. that they are actually putting themselves and loved ones that may be with them in danger when they go to these places because all they have is a sign out there saying that and there is no one on the outside checking everybody who is going on the inside of these buildings to make sure they are following what that sign says. host: that is edward in arizona. a few more of your comments from social media and the five minutes we have left. this is lawrence saying, i bought one because it was fun to shoot. since crime is billing outside of big cities such as atlanta, which i live outside of, it does not hurt to have a few for protection. matt sayingou never see a shooting at a gun show or gun shop.

don saying, we do not need a reason to exercise a constitutional right. and mark saying, legal gun owners own guns because of legal gun owners. time for a few more of your calls this first segment until 8:00 a.m. eastern as usual. this is steve in charlotte, north carolina, regionally purchased a firearm. what did you get and what was the process like? caller: it has changed here. it used to be you had to go downtown and get a background check from the sheriff, but they regionally changed the rule and all the gun stores told me everybody went crazy. they had lines out the door. i bought a snubnosed 38. basically for self protection and home protection, but i am a

hunter. i have been -- i got taught by my dad when i was eight years old how to hunt and properly handle things and i have -- i do have an s ks. host: for folks do not know, ask lane what it is. -- explain what it is. caller: it is a russian gun that shoots the same bullets as the ak-47. there are all different loads for that. but it was made before the ak-47 during world war ii as a defense gun for the russians. host: why do you on that? -- own that? caller: i first got into these things because they were cheap. the first rifle i bought was

$70. at the local flea market. and i have also bought regular guns through the old process, which only discontinued this year. so mainly i hunt. i have shotguns and 22's. i hate to say it, but i really like firearms. i have been around them all my life. there have been bad accidents in my family, unfortunately. host: involving firearms? caller: yes. my uncle was out hunting with his brother and turned around real quick and shot him in the head. i remember that one.

i was four years old, long before they had icus. we watched -- watched uncle mike go in, but i have also been shot at. and i made sure i had guns after that. and they were a little easier to get at the time. in fact, this is no longer true, but in new mexico the liquor stores used to sell ammo so you can pull up and get your ammo and liquor and it was a drive in. you did not even have to get out of your car. it was pretty crazy. i think they have changed that law. host: let me try to get one or two more in. calvin has been waiting in texas. good morning. >> i own a -- i bought guns for

two reasons. number one, i live in rural texas and they have a lot of wild animals. i put up trail cameras and i was amazed at the animals i saw coming out of the national forest. when president obama was elected, a lot of people went crazy, talking about seceding from the nation and buying guns and bullets. living in texas, you have to reject yourself. even going into the grocery store, some guy will block your island look at you crazy and he will not move, won't get out of your way and you know the only reason he is doing that is because he probably has a gun on him. the only reason he is brave is because he is strapped. so you walk around, you're not looking for trouble, but i'm not going to sit here and let somebody hurt me if i can avoid it. if you live in texas and do not have a gun, you're probably crazy.

you need to be prepared. host: that's calvin in texas, our last caller in this first segment. stick around, plenty more to talk about and up next, we will turn our attention to focus on the economy. the white house and bidenomics. later, we will be joined by our guest to expand school choice in the united states, stick around, we will be right back. ♪ >> our cyber monday sale is going on now at c-span shop.org. save up to 35% on apparel, accessories, home decor and books. there is something for every c-span fan and every purchase

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this but we had a giant recession with historically high unemployment and i remember it was a depressing time a few years ago. we have seen this incredible recovery, better than any other economy in the world and the labor market has recovered and we are back to normal and wages are rising. we had inflation mostly due through the reopening. people wanted to drive. and there were supply chain disruptions in the russian war. we are getting on the others of that with inflation falling and real wages going up. we are just on this upper trajectory in the most important things to look at how other countries are doing.

we all went through covid and the u.s. economy is doing better than any other country in the world. host: what is bidenomics and how much did it have to do with the incredible recovery? guest: the best way to talk about it is that it's a decision in the economy that grows the economy from the bottom up and the middle out so focusing on middle-class and low income households and trying to strengthen them. the american rescue plan did that at a time when families needed it. it's their growth, their spending, it's their recovery that i think has brought us forward and has created this world recovery. that's a key part. i think there is a long-term agenda that starting to take shape that will drive down the

cost of shipping things through the chips act which will create more semiconductors in the u.s. and that will bring the price of energy down and bring down the price of health which helps with inflation. those investments are just starting to take hold. we are going from the momentum we hold -- we had from the first year of the biden presidency to a long-term agenda. i think they could build on that extraordinary progress. host: world-class economic recovery you say in the headline from the new york times -- why is everybody so grumpy in these polls about the economy? guest: it's what everybody on my

social media and shows like this are talking about. some of it is we have these surveys in the american public is polarized. it's not a surprise that many republicans don't like the state of the economy because they don't like the president. i think that's part of it when you ask people how their personal economic situation is, they say it's good so that's an important point. another part of it is that we've been really making huge progress over the last few months when you look at wages and inflation. people follow social media closely and americans don't follow those things as closely. over time, as we see wages grown we see inflation continue to fall, i expect it will start to

register with americans that things are pretty good. host: from the same column, he points out an interesting book published a few years ago. guest: we've spent 20 or 30

years with wage stagflation. this talk has been going on for a while. we are starting to see a new economic paradigm start to shift. we are seeing that right now and an example is wage inequality which is falling. we are reducing that and we've seen that since 1980 where low-wage workers are seeing wage gains. we are starting to see progress and starting to make progress against the long-term trends that has stagnated working-class income. we have a couple of more years of progress that will make a huge difference in the lives of americans. host: our guest this morning's from the center for american progress. we are talking bidenomics. you can call us,

(202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001 an independents (202) 748-8002 .we are talking about the progress on wages and inflation. this is senator john kennedy from louisiana on the senate floor from two weeks ago. [video clip] >> if you take all of the average wage increases in the united states of america and you look at the average inflation in the united states of america, we have lost ground. in november of 2023, people are making less per hour after inflation than they were february, 2021. don't let anybody tell you that

wages have made up for this. they haven't kept up with inflation. and don't let anybody tell you that we are winning the war on high prices. we are getting inflation down. no thanks to the biden administration and quite frankly, the united states congress. that's thanks to the federal reserve. they have tightened interest rates which is hurt a lot of people but they have gotten inflation down. they had to do it with one arm tied behind their backs because the other way you attack inflation and the only way we've ever successfully gotten it down is what have congress do it and reduce the rate of spending and debt accumulation but we haven't done that. we haven't done that. in fact, since 2019, the population of the united states of america is up 1.9%.

the country has grown 2% since 2019. you know how much our budget has grown? 55%. this inflation is man-made. the man's name is joe biden. host: painting a very different picture of the economy right now. guest: yeah, he's wrong. when you look at before covid, prices have gone up about 20%. that's been hard for a lot of families but when you look at wages for the average worker, they've gone up 22% so a 20% increase in prices, 22% increase in wages. real wages for most workers are higher than they were before the pandemic. if you drew a line from the pandemic and the growth rate, real wages adjusted for

inflation or right where he would've expected based on that line from before the pandemic. real wages have been growing, we been making huge progress there and it's worth pointing out when you talk about the federal reserve that about a year ago, there was about 100% chance of a recession according to many economists. instead, the economy continues to grow we had a gangbusters third-quarter gdp report. i think this recovery is extremely strong and it's just starting to take hold and it comes to real wages and they are starting to accelerate. that's the proof in the pudding. host: why are economists so pessimistic? we talk about a high chance of a recession in the next six month or 12 months. guest: the key thing is that a lot of people did not believe that a lot of the inflation was

because supply chain disruption resulting from covid and the russia-ukraine war and when those things started to unwind, that brought down the rate of inflation without increasing the interest rates. they say is really the economy is too strong in weakening it is how we will reduce inflation when in reality, the unwinding of the transitions of the supply chain from covid of russia-ukraine has been the tailwind that's been boosting real wages and economic growth and it's been a huge game american workers. host: plenty of americans are awaiting to chat with you this morning. first is the line for democrats. caller: i just wanted to tell your spokesperson that he must live in a bubble because in washington, things are good.

they get their two or 3% increase. i am in agriculture where we farm. diesel fuel is the first thing that hits us. that's the absolute first thing. i've gone from filling up my semi-with fuel. it was in the earlier days, 200-300 dollars to fill it up and now it's $800. every time i fill it up i better have $800 on me to do that. everything connects to fuel and oil. that was where i believe biden made his mistake was putting the clamps down on the oil people. if he would loosen the oil interest, it had to go up. it couldn't stay where it was at so long. most people that i know were intelligent enough to lock in long-range. i am ok with that because i have a long-range locked in.

there is a lot of people -- i feel like you are living in an area where they don't get an increase, it's called a budget cut. that's what i have to say. host: thanks for that. guest: thanks for sharing that. a lot of people are continuing to struggle area the american economy has a lot of inequality like farmers and small business earners -- owners feel this. i think president biden has been pretty impressive in terms of trying to boost u.s. oil prices -- production. he use the petroleum reserve in an effort to induce more production. the u.s. is producing higher levels of fuel we are the number one oil producer in the world. a lot of people were struggling

and after a few more quarters of this kind of progress we will see will boost a lot of small businesses and the farmer bottom line as some of those costs go down. and that's while incomes go up. host: a chart from the u.s. energy information administration, a lot of energy statistics there. this long line showing diesel fuel prices going back to 1994. you see this jump in 2022, up even six dollars per gallon and dropped back today but is still well over four dollars per gallon right now. is it likely to go down again? guest: i will not get into speculation. you can lose a lot of money but hopefully that will go down to

as the economy improves. host: this is darrell, republican, good morning. caller: i think we are missing the boat, not talking about the value of the dollar here. with all the spending that was done with the proper backing by being able to sell u.s. bonds has devalued the dollar considerably. the only thing that has brought it back to the federal reserve and them increasing the interest rates to bring back investors into the u.s. dollar from other areas. with all the spending that's going on, sooner or later, that will come up and bite us again. guest: i think the key thing about inflation is that in october, it was 3% in the october before that it was 8%.

we are seeing it falling in prices did not rise at all between september and october. i think we are getting on the others of this inflation. hopefully over the next few months, we will continue to see those kinds of troughs that will stabilize that. when it comes to the deficit, there is a spending and revenue side. u.s. would have no federal budget deficit were it not for the bush and trump tax cuts. when president clinton left office, the congressional budget office was wondering what to do and we did to massive tax cuts and it was piling up. president biden put out a plan to raise revenue, $3 trillion of revenue. it could do a lot to reduce the deficit. host: the other chart to show viewers on inflation, this when

going from january, 2020- october-2023. this is showing inflation peaking at 8.9%. there is overall inflation and core inflation, can you explain the difference? guest: inflation is what consumers spend on and core inflation is when you take out cass. cass and food prices are volatile. they bump around a lot. gas and food prices bump around a lot. when you ask americans what they chart the prices on, cass and food are high up there. host: independent line, good morning. caller: i'm amazed that you can stand there or sit there with the look on your face and mocked the american people. you haven't said one thing that's true yet.

the bond market is falling apart. everybody else is ditching the dollar. we are headed for a crash and you know it. everybody knows it. that's why everybody's buying gold and silver. biden is taking this country into the ditch. take my word for it. host: maybe that comes back to the headline we talked about earlier and why everyone is grumpy about the economy. guest: one thing with the dollar is argentina elected a new president and i don't agree with them on a whole lot but he wants to adopt the u.s. dollar as the argentine currency. when you look abroad, i don't think there's been more confidence in the dollar than there is now. again, over the next few months, we will see wage gains continue to outpace inflation and that will make a huge impact for americans. host: lakewood, washington, line for democrats, good morning. caller: good morning.

i wouldn't take that guy's word for anything. i think there's been a great grifter on the american people. i think these corporations have been gouging us. i am a consumer. i go to the grocery store. i get a bag of doritos and they raise the price but they lower the quantity of what's in the bag. they do the same thing with toilet paper. there is fewer -- there is less toilet paper on each role. these corporations have raised the prices to take advantage of a 3% inflation to make it 8%. the democrats have come out and they do some investigations. i don't think there were supply-chain issues.

from overseas, yes but not to mystically. they have these products sitting in warehouses and are raising the prices. host: how much of the inflation we have seen in the past year and a half has been due to price gouging? guest: we know corporate profits are really high right now. somebody benefits from inflation and in many cases, they are corporations. the biden administration has been pretty good -- pretty aggressive is for his investigating corporate consolidation. there are hospital mergers and those sorts of things and stuff going on online, very big focus. one of the key things is meat processing because meat has gone up a lot. there are essentially four meat processors in the country. it's a real bottleneck and

source of corporate power. the biden administration has been looking to investigate that and clampdown on that. across the board, the federal trade commission and other parts of the biden administration have been very aggressive in going after corporate profiteering and corporate consolidation. host: joe in yorba linda, california, republican. caller: i had a question about the stock market. stock market seemed to be flatlined during obama and almost tripled under trump and now it's flatlined again. this seems to be a push that the stock market is mostly for rich people. to me, it funds many 401k's and pensions and it seems to promote folks from the bottom in the middle up. i bought stock a long time ago.

you buy stock and you think it has the potential of going up, you have a good chance of making a good return on your money i thought. i bought solar a long time ago, under a dollar and it went up to six dollars, 600% on my money. that's my question. guest: the stock market is important to the american people. the one key thing and what drives it going up and down as interest rates. we saw the stock market surge in the last year of the trump administration. that was a terrible year. i was watching netflix all day in 2020. the reason why the stock market went up is because the fed reduced interest rates. that caused stock prices to go up.

as we've had this strong recovery, we've seen the stock market flatlined as a result of that but interest rates are a huge part of that. what matters to a lot of americans the labor market. this president has had historic gains in jobs. that's a key thing for americans living paycheck to paycheck in terms of being able to get a job or get another job and get a raise. i look at the labor market as the strength for the american people. host: what about the homeownership market? there is a chart on the fixed rate average in the united states. today is hovering around 7.5%. guest: yeah, it's high. we hope it goes down more. nobody expects an interest rate hike for the rest of the year. we will see what it does next year but with inflation coming down, if we continue the

progress on inflation, we can probably expect rate cuts in the future which will bring down those costs. host: how soon in the future? guest: i'm not going to give anybody in financial advice but definitely no hikes for the rest of this year and with the continued progress, it might be into next year. host: john, independent, go ahead. caller: good morning at thanks for taking my call. the first comment i have is the word bidenomics. once again, plagiarist tick from joe biden or whoever's running the country, you use reaganomics and put his name in front of it. i retired early in 2019 and i have not gotten any increase at

all in my pension. social security over the last three years has gotten over an 11% increase. when you talk about interest rates, when i purchased by house in the early 90's, i paid 8% and that was about normal back then and that should be where rates stay now. my third, and quickly, with eric yet, we will not be paying any principal at all. all the money from the fed will be used to service debt interest. we will have to pay higher interest rates and i don't understand. i've been paying more for gasoline. it cost $100 to fill my pickup

truck it's ridiculous. my last comment would be -- i hate when economists remove food and fuel from the cost of -- you know what i'm trying to say. host: there is a lot there let brendan duke pick it up. guest: the key thing on the deficit is that president biden has laid out $3 trillion of deficit reduction through asking the wealthy to pay their fair share they does that without asking americans making under $400,000 pay a penny more in taxes. that would make a huge difference in terms of our debt burden. it was stabilize medicare finances. there are plans out there and the president has put out a plan

that would address our deficit while keeping investments in the american people like the child tax credit. there is a way to get a handle on our deficit. by asking the wealthy to pay our fair share and the president has posted and i think congress should take a look at it and get to work on it. host: what do you think about the term bidenomics. guest: many people debated. i think what we will see over the next few months is trump a nomex as well. when we come to an election, it will be a choice in president trump yesterday said he plans to repeal the formal care act. that would cost millions of americans their health care and would give a tax cut to the wealthy. that would be terrible for american pocketbooks. another example is he proposed

doing a tariff, a 10% across-the-board tariff, on the imports americans by which would hit every caller and they would see prices go up immediately. that would be a $300 billion tax increase. he's talked about using that money to reduce the corporate rate, reduce the tax rate the corporations like amazon and google and walmart pay. the key thing about this is that we need to have a discussion about these two visions of the country that we will have going into this election. the trumponomics one can be pretty scary. host: lancaster, virginia, james comer republican, good morning. caller: good morning, i'm sitting here laughing because this guy has done something nobody's done in years. he has unified everybody, democrats and republicans

because this president doesn't know what he's doing. nobody has said the economy is great. nobody. anybody goes back and thinks, trumponomics, i have money might pocket and food prices are low and bidenomics is a disaster. inflation was 11% and 9%. i haven't gotten a pay raise. every month, it cost me 7-800 dollars a month more under this president and if unit take core inflation, look at your meat prices. that's not 30%, it's 40 or 50% price increase. the most simplest of thing in a grocery store i shop has gone up 40%. local bread, dozen eggs, i don't

know where you get this 24% inflation down. inflation is not down. host: we got your point. guest: a lot of americans are struggling. we live in an economy where the wealthy get a large share of the gains and a lot of middle-class people struggle. we've made progress in over the next six months, hopefully we see the progress started to trickle down. when we look at the average wage , not everybody gets it, it's average but the average wage for a typical worker is up 22% which is more than the increase in prices. you have to look at both sides, income and prices. income on average is higher but that means and averages an average and some people get below average. host: the inflation rate is 3.2%

on inflation from october, 2022. that's the overall inflation. some things that have increased the most, sports tickets, car insurance is up 19%, car repair is up 19 -- 50%. steak is up 11%, major appliances are down 10%, smart phones are down 12% and airfares are down 13% and fuel oil is down 21%. it's hard to figure out exactly what we mean we talk about overall inflation? guest: we take samples of the american people and try to figure out what on average they spend on. then we assign weights to those categories. one important thing to note is after thanksgiving is the american farm bureau goes across the country and prices the

average thanksgiving meal and it went down this year compared to years before. we so the prices go down. when you take that as a fraction of a worker's paycheck, goes to paying for the classic thanksgiving dinner and its lower than it was in the years leading up to the pandemic. we are seeing inflation go down while we just -- while wages go up. host: we are taking your calls on the economy and bidenomics. this is done in washington, independent, good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i just had a comment and a question. from a somewhat educated look at the world right now, one thing

you notice from the pandemic is the world is all influencing no one everybody. america doesn't have a premier spot in economic for trade. -- for trade. i wonder if we are in a different paradigm and maybe the fed needs to think about it as well. the fed always has this 2% inflation rate as their target. did that figure come down with moses on the stone tablet? why is that used as the benchmark best inflation rate? maybe in the new world for a while, nations are settling out in their pecking order and may be our inflation here might be higher for quite a while. host: what about the inflation

target rate? guest: we've had that for a few decades. they can adjust that if they want. the key thing about the inflation rate is high inflation is hard but negative inflation sounds great but also means a depressed economy which goes into a spiral at me so that in the great depression and that's why they settled on 2% which is a little way of inflation to avoid that. when we talk about america's role in the global pecking order, we've had the best recovery of any advanced economy. more gdp growth, less inflation than japan and the u.k. and europe then canada and all of our competitors now. inflation is actually lower now than it was compared to those other countries. the main competitor people talk about is china. china is arguably in a recession right now.

i think things look pretty good right now it comes to america and the global economic pecking order. host: if we have the best recovery, who is in second and third place? guest: i'm trying to visualize the graph but an example of who's not doing well is the u.k.. they have had wages there lower than 2008. they've had negative wage growth for 15 years. their version of the congressional budget office expects real wages to not go above the 2008 so that's a loss of two decades. it makes us feel better about what we are doing here. host: how much have you studied what's going on there? guest: in europe, they are more

exposed to the russia-ukraine supply chain disruption but when you take have energy and food which is a big part of that, they still have higher inflation. the other part is in the u.k., they tried to do that crazy budget or ago that cost the prime minister her job. it because the u.k. borrowing cost to go up and they are still struggling so they're looking at large deficits and a lack of real wage gains. they are more exposed to the price swings but also, bad economic policy. host: point pleasant beach, new jersey, republican, good morning. caller: how are you? let me say a couple of things and please don't cut me off. the reason why this country is in a mess is no offense to your guest but you have all these economists that go to all these schools that have no idea what's going on in real life.

i bet he doesn't do his own shopping. host: what's going on in real life, tell me. caller: everything is more expensive because the guy in the white house, the first thing he did was he went after oil. this guy is telling me he's trying to produce more oil. he wants to be fossil fuel free in 10 years. he doesn't want to dig anymore. these liberals want to kowtow to their base but then they blame everything on the ukraine war. in 10 or 15 years, they want to get rid of gas and oil but he doesn't want to say that. host: what about energy policy? guest: i do go shopping myself. on gas, the key thing is that gas is lower than it was a year ago. comparing it to october, i

expect it will be lower november compared to october. we are seeing gas down but i think the inflation reduction act by president biden is a good example of a way to do the energy where it doesn't raise taxes on gas at all. it helps these infant energy sources and helps wind and solar get off the ground. it doesn't penalize any energy source. it's pushing toward cleaner and cheaper energy so that's a good way to do things. the president is trying to attack that problem. host: from facebook -- i think it's more than $32 trillion at this point. $33.8 trillion. guest: the key thing is we were

slated to pay down most of our debt in 2000. the cbo said they will have to figure out what to do with this money and there was a huge tax cut to the wealthy in 2000 and most of them were permanent in 2012. in 2017, we did another large tax cut for the wealthy and here we are now. the debt did not go away, it's larger than ever. when you look at production, the projections can be a little bit troublesome. the key thing is president biden has laid out $3 trillion of deficit reduction that would stabilize the debt because the key thing is we will we also -- we also want gdp to grow. you have to look at the income which is gdp. we can stabilize the debt by

essentially asking the wealthy to pay their fair share as president biden has. some of the measures are things like if you are a billionaire, making sure you pay some tax each year. a lot of billionaires don't pay much intact because the gains they get on the stocks don't face an annual tax if they hold onto it. president biden is proposing a minimum tax for those gains for billionaires. reversing the corporate tax cuts of the trump tax cuts is another way he proposes doing that. when you add these things up, you can get the debt on a pretty good trajectory without asking americans making under $400,000 to pay a penny more. host: those cuts were made in 2012? guest: yes. host: barack obama was president then? guest: yes, he signed it. host: was there a pushback from

democrats at the time? guest: it was a vast majority of democrats that were behind it. i'm not here as a democrat or republican. i'm just a policy wonk and making it permanent clearly was a mistake. host: this is patrick in pittsburgh, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. i listen to your guest and it's like listening to the wizard of oz. in a completely rigged economy, it is completely rigged. it has one purpose and that's to ensure the super rich get everything. your guest is acting like he's an advocate of the american people when in fact the entire purpose of the biden onyx is to ensure the super rich. he can lie all he wants about up at the fact of the matter is the system is still ongoing. it doesn't matter what party you

are in anymore. the corporatecabal has managed to ensure their interest is the only interest. guest: president biden has laid out $3 trillion of tax increases on the wealthy and large corporations. that's a great place to start. reversing the tax cuts for corporations and ask billionaires to pay a small tax on their unrealized capital gains, efforts like that will make a big dent in income equality. when we achieve that, we can figure out what's next but it's a great starting place. it makes huge progress on reducing wealth inequality and racial inequality while making progress on the debt. host: this is lakeland, florida, independent.

caller: good morning, c-span. the last call or just proved my point as to what i will say. that's why they want to defund the irs because of the tax cheats getting away without paying taxes and the tax cheats getting these subsidies. that's only one thing. if donald trump test donald trump is not the only tax cheat in this country, there are thousands of them and that's why the economy is not stabilizing. marco rubio called for the e-verify program for corporations but it should be for every business in the united states because there are thousands upon thousands of illegal immigrants that are not paying it to the social security system or the federal system which will bring our taxes down. not just that, employers are not paying their fair share of taxes either. all the small businesses that hire illegal immigrants are not paying their fair sure people are just either.

we don't of a spending problem, we have a revenue problem in that last caller proved it. they will keep the cabal going. host: tax cheats, irs either by illegal immigration, what do you want to say? guest: let's take the irs. president biden is part of the inflation reduction act and that's historic after years of a falling budget for that agency. each dollar we invest in the irs in terms of working out tax cheating by the wealthy, that gets us $12 revenue.it's a crazy rate of return. they'd love to make that investment in the stock market. president biden made that investment and we are seeing an

improvement for the american people already. they are announcing efforts to go after the wealthy tax cheats which will make a huge difference in the deficit. republicans want to get rid of that which is a huge tax cut for wealthy taxpayers. they are trying to tie it to aid for israel and saying we will not fund israel if we don't give a blank check on taxes. i couldn't agree more on the irs . it's an important agency and it's a way to fight financial crime. the irs a few years ago made a bust. they bust fentanyl dealers and they are usually important in our efforts to fight terrorism. it's a most ridiculous thing in the world to talk about defunding it. host: we will ended there for today but come back down the road.

the center for american progress. thank you so much. coming up in about 25 minutes this morning, we will be joined by our next cast to talk about school choice. until then, its open form in any public policy or political issue you wanted to talk about, the phone lines are you -- are there for you to call in. we will get you calls -- to your calls after the break. ♪ ♪ >> traveling over the holidays? make the podcast part of your travels. we feature nonfiction books in one place, the c-span bookshelf features multiple books.

listen to the c-span bookshelf podcast is holiday season and you can find it on the c-span now free mobile video app or wherever you get your podcasts and on our website, c-span.org/ podcasts. >> dr. sarah ogilvy has spent eight years studying the creation of the oxford english dictionary. her book is called the dictionary people. she has a phd in linguistics from oxford, studied over 3000 original contributor to the dictionary. her comment in the introduction about what she found is " i was thrilled to discover not one but three murderers, pornographic collectors, karl marx's daughter, the president of yale,

the inventor of the tennis net adjuster, a pair of lesbian writers who wrote under a male pen name. and a cocaine addict found dead in a railway station lavatory. >> author sarah ogilvy on this episode of book notes plus which is available on the c-an now free mobile app or wherever you get your podcasts. >> c-span studentcam documentary competition is back, celebrating 20 years with this year's theme, looking forward well considering the past. we are asking middle and icicle students to create a 5-6 minute video addressing one of these questions -- in the next 20 years, what is the most important change would like to see in america or over the past 20 years, what has been the most important change in america as we do each year, we are giving away $100,000 in total prizes with a grand prize of $5,000 and every

teacher who has students participate in this year's competition has the opportunity to share a portion of an additional $50,000. the competition deadline is friday, january 19, 2020 four. visit our website at studentcam.org. >> "washington journal" continues. host: it's our open form in any public policy or political issue you want to talk about, now is the time to call in. democrats, (202) 748-8000 republicans, (202) 748-8001 independents (202) 748-8002. this headline from the front page of today's usa today --

that's a three day tribute beginning today. your calls and open form, this is joe in ohio, independent, good morning. go ahead, joe. caller: basically, i missed your gentleman that was on. i didn't catch his name, am i still on?

host: you are and their guest was from the center for american progress. i just wanted to say he was talking about the irs and they are making a big return. if the bigwigs, their friends talk to each other. they know each other and i feel that they get together and they will raise the prices to hurt us more to compensate for what they are going to do at the irs. that's basically what i wanted to say. host: when people say the economy is rigged, is that what they are talking about? caller: i'm not saying that but everybody says go after the rich. if you do that, they hobnob with each other. everybody probably knows it if you are a big company owner.

then they will come after you as well so they will do something to make everything to stay the way it is. the irs will show they are getting more money on return but in essence, we are paying more for everything to compensate for them trying to peel them apart one by one. i'm sure they talk with their friends. that's basically what i want -- the other quick thing is i think pricing, more kids are coming out of college making double what i made, triple what i made when i was younger and get out of school to start in the workforce. i have a feeling -- i've worked with them and i quit a job because i wanted a raise and i wondered why that guy is making more than me because he went to college? i do the same work as he does.

that's why so many people are graduating. i had to pay a loan and they make 70 or $80,000 and they buy a hundred thousand dollar house and they will pay it off faster than i can. i'm not even paid off yet. i don't want to hold you up, i was just venting. i think the corporations will get together and if you get five of them, they will talk to each other and they will come after you as well. we need to compensate for all the money we are losing. host: we got your point. this is wesley in new york, republican, good morning. caller: i served in vietnam in 1967 in the infantry when these people talk about firearms and

you only need a couple of rounds, they are full of it. we had a gun fight and i went through 60 rounds in less than two seconds and we lost people as well and these people talk about gun control but they don't know what they are talking about. they don't do anything when they know they have a problem. with the parkland shooter, they know we had problem for years and even the fbi knew and they did nothing. the firearms the army uses are not that good. germany has better ammunition than we have. host: you think the red flag law, the ability to take weapons out of the hands of people deemed dangerous, do you think we need more ability to do that in this country? caller: yes, we do. the people in maine, they were trying to warn people about that shooter. in the parkland shooter, the fbi was warned twice by phone calls. host: this is jeff, indianapolis, indiana, democrat.

caller: thanks for taking my call. a lot of people need to wake up when it comes to knowledge about economics. a lot of misinformation is out there when it comes to the overall aspect of the united states and worldwide economic activity. host: in what way? caller: we had to recover from a global pandemic that caused severe disruptions in economic activity. that's what we were coming out of when joe biden became president. i actually think joe biden has done a good job when it comes to economics. you cannot say we are bad economically. when you have an unemployment rate up above 4%, most people are working and you've got

people with help-wanted signs everywhere. yes, we had some inflation. that's when we first came out o. but inflation is going down. i saw gas prices yesterday at $2.88. that is what i saw yesterday. prices are going down. the only listened to one side of things. 13.2 million barrels of oil a day. show it to the people about -- host: many said that they were better off during the trump years. caller: the pandemic caused most

of this. you cannot say things were better in 2019 before the pandemic. we had a pandemic that disrupted overall activity. you cannot get around the fact that we had a pandemic. and we had to recover from that, and we are still recovering from it right now. that is what they need to understand. they need to understand that. host: that is just in indiana. this is jeff. >> here it goes. the guy was just on talking about economics said prices are cheaper today than they were last october. everything that he set about the economy coming down is from one year ago. two years before that, it went

up steadily for two years. in other words, this economy is a bunch of crab -- crap that biotin is selling. you know what i am saying. you could take every dollar from every billionaire in the u.s., and it would not replace the amount of money this government spent this year come over and above. biden economics is agent. that is my biggest thing, and it is true. they are selling. host: when it comes to federal

spending in the past year, the government spent $6.1 trillion in a year and brought in $4.4 trillion. a running list of expenditures and revenues. you can also look at the top items that the u.s. government spent money on. $1.37 trillion on social security, $829 billion on defense spending. interest on the debt 688 dollars. viewers are familiar with that website. this is from crawford, indiana, republican.

what is on your mind today? caller: i will tell you what is on my mind. it is funny how this world is turning into -- you know, if you have a republican president, it helps a lot of people. the democrat voters hate it. but when you get a democrat in their, they are screwing up the economy and the prices. there is one thing about democrats, and another thing about the climate stuff. that is a bunch of bull. we are wasting money for nothing. host: this is benjamin and

huntsville, indiana. good morning. caller: i would first like to ask a question regarding republicans and democrats who claim to care about the economy, yet i do not hear anyone speak about the u.s. annual oil subsidy, and annual oil subsidy that they keep hidden from the people. i just recently learned about that. i would love to hear more about it, of why no one is speaking of it. host: this is john and massachusetts. good morning. caller: i have a comment and a production. i said this about 15 years ago.

he asked me, do you trust our world leaders and people in government and i said no because what you are going to do is get together with all the countries. you're going to set up a world bank. please do not cut me off. please, do not cut me off. while you are stealing the tax money from the poor people and giving tax breaks to the international corporations -- they are international and work worldwide. while you are sitting there and giving money to israel murdering people of color around the world for land and resources and while people i getting all the money from tax breaks and the world health organization is getting money, that poison you created,

something that they are giving to everybody around the world almost job dead from warp speed. nobody talks about that where the money they gave to epstein and all the pedophiles on wall street. host: he mentioned israel. this is the headline from usa today. release in the cease-fire agreement that took place between hamas and the israeli government. the american four-year-old was one of the third group of hostages released on sunday. president biden hailed her release. this is what the president had to say yesterday. president biden: two days ago, one of our fellow americans, little girl named abigail turned

four years old and she spent her birthday, at least 50 days before that held hostage by hamas and today she is free. we are praying for the fact that she is going to be all right. she is free and in israel right now. those who are now wrapping abigail in love and care -- she has been through a terrible trauma. her mother was killed in front of her october 7. abigail banter dad. he was gunned down as well while using his body to shield abigail. she ran to their neighbors for help, where they were taken hostage by hamas. they were held for 50 days.

what she endured is unthinkable. she was among 13 hostages released today from gaza. she is now safely in israel and we expect additional americans to be released as well. we will not stop working until every hostage is return to their loved ones. host: that was president biden yesterday. hamas appeared to be open to extending the cause. eight agencies rushing their delivery into gaza right now. this is carolyn, waiting in ohio. good morning. caller: i want to thank c-span. you have been running different things on rosalynn carter, and i caught -- not all of it, but i want to go online and go over it again, but she was -- i want to

say it was the senate. she was a witness or whatever you call it for the senate, and she was talking about caregiving . i was a caregiver seven years ago, and i just would advise any caregiver out there to watch and listen to her. i wish i would have had that before i went through everything that i did. it was just amazing, her insight and how much it would have helped. i just advise people to listen to her because i did the family leave and all of that, but it was unpaid. anyway, yes, i think you for airing that and i advised caregiver is now to find it online and just listen to her

because she was so wise, and i wish that i had her advice when i was a caregiver myself. host: you can find it online. rosalynn carter in the archives. i believe the one you were referring to is from 2014, support for military and veteran caregivers. is that the one? caller: i thought it was 2011, but i could have been wrong. i will side with you. i thought it was from 2011, but i could be wrong and you could be right. host: as you could be right as well. i will look at 2011 and see if it is there as well. i will look it up. caller: the other lady was greeley. i cannot remember. host: i got it for you.

may 26, 2011, assistance for older americans. rosalynn carter testifying there, talking about aging services and caregiving programs . you can see it there. caller: thank you so much and keep up the great work. i know that caregivers could use that. that was just excellent advice. thank you very much. i love c-span. host: good morning. caller: how are you doing? one of the things i noticed is that there seems to be an overall intent by the media to foster racial hatred. i have seen this again and again.

if there is any kind of white on black violence, they play that and then they trumped it up and again. and then it is like the george floyd thing. they left out the fact that george floyd was sitting in the car. there is film of this. he is sitting in the car saying, i cannot breathe, and this is before the cop put him on the ground because he was sitting in the car. i looked up this -- the part that he was overdosing on drugs. i forget which one. they are portraying this as systemic racism and then you ask a typical liberal what is systemic and you get done looks. they cannot think of it, but they are willing to say it. host: what do you think systemic racism is? do you think it exists in this country? caller: no, i do not. if you can point at a law or institution that is systemic in their approach to racism, i would love to hear what it is

and correct it, but everything is being blamed on systemic racism. i have a friend of mine i have known for 20 years who is hispanic. her husband is illegal. they live in d.c., and they have been friends of mine, and they are doing well. their kids are going to college and they are talking about white privilege, as if somehow they have been victimized. this victimization is being taught. the first thing they say is you have a right to something and you are being victimized. this is setting up a try ballistic confrontation within our society, and it is very dangerous. host: we have the time for a couple more calls and open

forum. good morning. caller: that last guy you had on is a democrat and he is talking the same. you should have stopped him up beside -- upside the head. host: i'm not going to do that with a guest. caller: that is a joke, but you rebuttal him. host: what will you have said? what would you have asked him? caller: i would have said that is a spinoff from warren buffett. warren buffett makes more money and pays more taxes than he does. no. the pin is, he is talking about the rate. i am living off my savings. so what am i doing? i'm supposed to pay payroll taxes?

it is a spin on a talk. another thing, when you show that graph and showed the core inflation, you said it was 40 and gas? what does that have to do with it? the other objects i just supply and demand. it makes it harder. if you get the permit, they will not give you the lease. you see what i mean? supply and demand is when prices go up, prices go down. when trump was in, it was to be owed dollars, well, i do not know if inflation would make it three dollars. all of them do that. why do these so-called intelligent experts come on and they still talk this.

host: stick run. about 45 minutes left. we will be joined by paul to discuss his group's effort to expand choice. we will be right back. >> c-span's black friday sale. our cyber monday sale is going on at c-span.org. save on apparel, accessories, home to core and books. there is something from every -- for every c-span fan. shop c-span's cyber monday sale, or scan the code on the right. >> this year come book tv marks 25 years of shining a light on

leading nonfiction authors and their book. nearly 900 festivals visited and 16,000 events. book tv provided viewers with 92,000 hours of programming on the latest literary discussions on history, politics and biology. you can watch book tv. book tv, 25 years of television for serious readers. >> dear -- dr. sarah ogilvy has studied. the dictionary of the people. a degree in language sticks from oxford studying many contributors to the dictionary. her comment is, i was thrilled

to discover not one but three murderers. karl marx's daughter, a president, the inventor of the tennis net adjuster. lesbian miters who wrote under a male pin name and a cocaine di found dead in a railway station lavatory. >> footnotes plus is available on the free mobile app or whereverou get you podcast. looking at programs on c-span radio just got easier. listen to washington journal daily. important congressional hearings and public affairs events drought the day. catch washington today for a fast-paced report. listen to c-span anytime.

just tell your smart speaker to play c-span radio. >> washington journal continues. host: the conversation on k-12 education. our guest is paul, joining us from indiana. explain what you do that and choice and how you go about accomplishing your mission. guest: thank you for having me. it launched in 1996 and we are a bipartisan nonprofit organization. our mission is to advance freedom, opportunities and choice for all as a pathway to the successful knives and a stronger society we seek to build understanding of the ecosystem that empowers every family.

we inform and educate policymakers and a number of areas, public affairs and litigation. we also have a research program. host: how do k-12 -- what percentage are in public school versus private school, charter school were homeschooling how does that break up? guest: that is a great question and we have seen movement in recent years, but especially to the pandemic and after. right now, approximately 10 to 11% are in school, five to 6% are in public charter schools and right now we estimate

homeschooling is probably around 5% to 6%, which is double what it was before the pandemic. host: what do you find in the surveys? how different is it from what you have described? guest: we have been conducting surveys for about 12 years and we see this disconnect between what parents tell us in a survey, what they prefer in terms of the type of school they would like to enroll their child in and the patterns that we see. in contrast with the numbers i shared a moment ago, we see about one third of parents sending their child to a private school, if they had the

opportunity. about 35% to 40% would send them to a public district school and roughly 10% would like to homeschool and others would like to enroll their child in a charter school. host: when it comes to your mission, what are the ways to go about it? what is the difference between a school voucher versus a savings account and doing it on a credit account? guest: what drives our mission is that funding should follow the child to obtain the best education learning environment for that child's specific needs. the funding mechanism has taken the form of an education savings account which has been around for more than a decade. first lodging in arizona and now

in more than a dozen states today. school vouchers provide to offset tuition and public charter schools allow families to enroll their child into public school that is chartered with a different set of rules and regulations compared to a lot more freedom to have more autonomy in public district schools. we fully support funding following the child. that is the key driver to give the most flexibility to parents and their children and to adapt to the needs of parents of a sixth-grader and an eighth grader.

flexibility is a key word when you are a parent, and we see these programs now more than 80 programs around the country affording that flexibility to families, 32 states. host: is there a way to do this through the individual states or even the local level? guest: we believe that local is best. our focus has been at the state and local levels. we were founded more than 25 years ago. we think that the closer policies can be set for those families that are being affected. state and local is very focus as an organization. host: what have you been able to accomplish on school choice and

expanding the choice? guest: the last two years have been really big years for the educational choice smooth. we saw just this year seven states and programs and four of those are universal programs. in arkansas, iowa, oklahoma and you -- and utah, they are now eligible for an education savings account. that builds on the momentum that we have seen, going back the last couple of years, where we have seen arizona and west virginia launch universal programs. i own state of indiana, we have expanded near universal for choice scholarship program and so, we have seen these new programs launch this school year

and we have also seen them expanding the eligibility for students in the last couple of years which, it is an exciting time to be in this line of work, and we expect to continue to build as more families are enrolling their children in these programs. being able to have that kind of flexibility, whether they want to stay in the school that they have currently or circumstances dictate a need for a change, i think a lot of parents can relate to that, the need for flexibility. this is really an exciting time. host: many are familiar with the president of -- one of the

questions we asked was the question of school choice. this is what she had to say. >> over the course of decades between 85 to 90% of parents send their kids to public schools, and that is with lots of different charters and things like that. this new voucher movement right now about universal vouchers that you see in florida that pay for disney trips and things like that -- most people would think that was inappropriate, but this movement to defund public schools is very recent because what will end up happening is that if public schools do not get the money that they, they are going to fall behind. i think it is not just the

privatization. it is the sense of taking money away from kids who really need it and making sure that we have that for all kids. that is a fight that we have to have. host: comments from her? guest: i, this as a researcher and a. . i we a couple different had. what you see is the flexibility that. need right now. i do not mind addressing those comments or needs. i think that point of view that she shared is very system driven and not necessarily taking into account the turbulence and

disruptions that were felt over the last few years, so lawmakers and policymakers in a number of states have really started to address the needs to give parents more options, to give students more options and flexibility, whether it is the public system as we know it, which is totally fine. the schools are working for those students, or to give more flexibility to attend a public charter school or to use an education servings account for online courses to send their child to a different private school. even if it is only for a year or more. i think that those comments in some ways -- it is not adjusting

what families have been speaking about more and more of the last couple of years. we have seen programs launching in the last 10 to 15 years. and these programs will be serving a wide range of students. largely students who are in disadvantaged situations, however you define that. i think that parents want to have maximum flexibility, more options to provide the best

school environment, learning environment for their children. host: talking school choice. the phone lines are a little different for educators and teachers. it is (202) 748-8000 for parents. teachers at (202) 748-8001. all others can call at (202) 748-8002. caller: one of your last segments asked if there was any institutional racism and it is staring us in the face, it is the public education department. the moment we need to -- decide -- the fact that we know that

there is a school district that is better than the other is exactly what is wrong with the american school system. i think it is a joy i think it is a joke. evidence has come out that it has not really helped the kids that much. there needs to be a complete paradigm shift or overhaul and on the federal level, we should be committing as many resources as possible. my slogan is to over fund public education. we need to have a system set up where we are looking at the best teachers, using the best methods we can across the country. that is the only way we will get rid of all of this crime and all the problems that we are having. take the time to see how children actually learn. stop with the private schools in the charter schools.

host: we got your point. let's let paul respond. guest: i appreciate those comments. and i understand the frustration that is being communicated there. i think the ladies programs and school choice programs -- i would disagree to the fact that the school programs are providing an education for children. the funding does follow the student and gives options. and so, what we see is a change in a number of states where mobility of families has greatly increased. they are in much more control

over their child learning in a school environment and it is different than it was 15 to 20 years ago, fisher. and in a lot of cases around the country. i think that those changes will really make a difference in a lot of young people's lives. host: this is michael. good morning. michael, are you with us? go ahead, sir. what grade do you teach? caller: can you hear me? host: yes. what grade do you teach? caller: i'm a retired teacher. i taught middle school, high school and i am retired about five years now.

the talk about private school or charter school idea plantation schools where only the rich could go to school or plantation owners family -- the community around, not allowed to go. i believe firmly in public education. we were at the height of immigration. what was the reason to get an education for all, including the immigrants. this smacks of the plantation school, education for all? no. segregated education for the rich. when schools -- some schools

actually closed the public schools so that the black kids could not go to school. i do not trust the charter school movement. host: paul? guest: i appreciate michael's point of view as a retired educator, but i would disagree that we are moving back to a more segregated situation because of charter schools were twice. that could not be further from the truth. schools tend to be less segregated when they are participating in a school choice program. outcomes have been may even more

positive for those students attending charter schools were enrolled or participating in certain programs. we have our annual publication and you can find it on our website. every year we review our outcomes and by far, the positives are positive. there are some that show no effects but by far, the research is positive on school choice programs, especially those that serve disadvantaged students and those from low income

households. the vast majority of students being served were coming from low income households. we see these programs moving up and being more integrated than what the caller had described. caller: good morning. i am concerned of the value of the voucher is not high enough or that public schools are allowed to charge more, it will be discriminatory because the

poor kids will not be able to afford to go to the private school. the kids with resources can go but those who do not cannot. so how do you prevent that? host: how do you figure out the value of the vouchers? guest: it varies across programs. oftentimes, some states have a different value with a somewhat higher value for high schools. they can mange anyway,

specifically the voucher programs tend to be in the five to $8,000 range and for high schools, as much as 11, 12 and they take a percentage for that student's school district. it is around 90%. they put that into the education savings account, and that is how they determined the value. to the concerns about the value falling short, one thing that we have seen, we have conducted a number of surveys and private schools will often include other types of financial aid as well.

specifically for those coming from low income households to cover the cost. there is the public funding and many times they will have a financial aid mechanism. host: good morning, your next. caller: i am remembered when betsy devos was bleeding and she was emotional, begging the public and whoever she was speaking to you, to not let go of the charter schools and private accounts and i will tell you, i was sickened because

public schools have served this country well when they refunded. the main thing that has been happening is taking the funding away and privatizing it, just like the gop wants to privatize social security and all of it. the book banning and the rigid christian philosophy that is so consuming in the republican party, and i believe that all you will end up doing is creating a workforce that is so dumbed down and so servient to

the monthly paycheck, but it is not that bad. and their greed and the fact that they cannot find workers, you will end up with some pretty stupid people coming up host:. we got your point. paul, do you want to jump in? guest: a couple things i would say, about the point of serving all children well, i think history is a stark contrast to that. our children are in local public schools and we are happy with our public schools, but for a lot of students, a significant segment of the population over the course of time had not been served well because they do not

have that funding mechanism to help them find a better option. that better option could be a school across district lines, but families have been zoned to a specific school in a district and it has been of great constraint to mobile mobility and flexibility and so, i think i would disagree that the way we have been approaching k-12 education for centuries and serving everyone well is not the case. what we are seeing now out of the pandemic where we have had a lot about learning and we have had the national assessment for progress tell us how much

students have fallen behind since before the pandemic. we have seen historic declines of that assessment and we have not seen it in decades. the response right now, everything should be on the table. i think that some states are taking it upon themselves to provide that everything on the table approach and that is how we see programs being able to provide all those options with everything on the table for families to do what they can to do it they can for their children's needs and hopefully able to recover and address those learning losses over time. host: how old are your kids and are there charter schools and

options where you are? how did you decide that public school was the right choice for them? guest: we have a sixth-grader and an eighth grader and we found that this was the best learning environment for them. have certain needs that are being met so far and in our schools but i emphasize for anyone and any parent that can relate to this, what is happening right now, it may not be going well a month from now or six months from now were a year from now. i think that indiana, fortunately we live in a state that provides a lot of options

for a nearly universal choice scholarship program and we have charter schools in the indianapolis area where we are living, but other states do not have those types of options. we have open enrollment to attend another type of school. but some states do not have some of those options or any of those options. and so, that is something that drives us with our choice and trying to bring more understanding and awareness of these programs that were launched in the last few years and provide more opportunities for kids. host: about 10 minutes left if you would like to join the conversation.

this is baldwin, missouri. good morning. caller: i had a comment and a question. i comment is, i live in missouri, a suburb of st. louis. the schools are really good in the suburbs, but once you get in the city, it is close down. i think 11 schools in the city last year. so we do have a lot of students coming to the westside, which is great because it makes them more diverse. i am a single parent that is on disability and i do not care how much you give me, i will be able to afford for my kid to go to a private school. when we started taking all those dollars out of the public school

system, where parents need a good system for kids to go to, so they can keep up with the private school, you're taking more and more dollars away. that is why i have a problem with school choice. some parents like me are on a single budget and i do not care how much of the voucher you give me, i will never meet a threshold. >> what we see right now, this is something that often comes up and there has been a lot of research done. he studied these programs for years and in our annual review,

there have been 74 study looking at the fiscal effects and 68 of those 74 have shown positive effects and net positive gain in terms of funding that is staying in the public school district for the public schools. the vast majority of the high-quality research on the physical effects of program is positive. a large part of that is because the value of the scholarships i sent in such a way that it is below the funding for that student. it is written into the rules and regulations to ensure that at minimum, there is a neutral, but

oftentimes there is often a positive with more money, around $3500 per student on average with savings for every child uses a scholarship program, and so, the other comment about the ability to pay for the tuition of a private school, most of the education savings programs, the values of those scholarships around the average, if not above average in those states. at least it is a starting point. they are meeting at least the average.

host: cheryl, good morning. you are next. caller: i have a comment to make , as far as some of the private schools for special education. when the public schools cannot provide with the child needs as far as dyslexia, their programs are not sufficient the child and the child has to go to a specialized school. the tuition is outrageous. it is seven to 10 times what the cost per capita in a public school would be for the private school. when you come -- most of the charters are for low income, but what happens when you are middle and the tuition for your child

to learn how to read -- it is not enough. we have a problem with that, that the private schools are charging so much more than what they are given to the public school. that was my comment. thank you. guest: what we have seen in our surveys of private schools with the average tuition around $6,000, less in some states. what the caller brought out is that it is certainly an outlier and an exception to what we found to be the average. for high school, it tends to be in that 9000 to $10,000 range and it can be higher or lower, depending on which state,

especially in an urban area. that can also be a factor. host: a question from mika on twitter. if a private school receives money from school vouchers, with that school have to abide by title ix? guest: so, there are rules and regulations on private. it is embedded in the code. before there are any programs enacted in the state, all states have some sort of regulation rule on private schools. a lot of those involved addressing discrimination. and then on top of those rules and regulation, and the context

of a school choice program, there can be additional rules and regulations put on those private schools. it varies from state to state. host: a couple more phone calls and a couple more minutes before we end our program today. this is richard, on the line for teachers and educators out of little rock, arkansas. caller: we have been through all kinds of trauma in little rock, as you know. school populations are trying to separate themselves and i do not understand. we are creating a school system where -- whatever we are left with -- i just do not understand why you do not put all your efforts into the people that are

pushing on this, all their efforts into improving our public schools. and he describes schools that do not do well but why are they that wait? what is the problem? we need to solve that problem and not just create a place to escape. we need to think about the common good and i will listen to your response. guest: i think that we are all in this for the common good that we have been trying that for years and decades, that approach. and things have stalled. there are still a lot of students who are trapped in schools that may not be serving them well. and so, i think a lot of parents

feel that we already have separate systems and separate opportunities, segregated opportunities and that is many years. coming out of the pandemic, what we see in our polling signals is that parents and educators are ready for something different. you mentioned it at the beginning of the comment about a lot of frustration and hard times and something has come out in our surveys of teachers and most recently what we published about a month ago that teacher morale is extremely low and it is half of what it was right before the pandemic. our first survey of teachers was in march of 2020 and we are

seeing the percentage of teachers who think it has been cut in half and so, educators, teachers are ready for a change and i'm not sure if the same way of doing things is going to address that. that is something that we will continue to survey and ask questions about. we went to better understand what their concerns are today and how things can change and to try different approaches, multiple approaches, and not have one that is rigid for parents and educators alike. host: it is a choice.org. we appreciate your time this morning.

that does it for the washington journal today. but we will be back here tomorrow morning. in the meantime, have a great monday. ♪ announcer: c-span is your unfiltered view of government. co-funded by this television companies and more including media,. >> at mediacom, we believe that whether you live here or here or way out in the middle of anywhere, you should have access to fast, reliable internet. >> mediacom support c-span as a

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