♪ host: it is tuesday, november 28. the senate returns at 10:00 a.m. eastern today and the house begins at noon. a concept of the american dream. fewer americans believe anyone

who works hard can get ahead regardless of their background. we want to hear from you about whether that idea still holds true in the country today. phone lines split as usual by political party. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. you can send us a text at (202) 748-8003. please include your name and where you are from. catch up with us on social media. onx and -- on x and facebook. you can go ahead and start calling now. we are talking about the american dream. if you work hard, you can g ahead. a recent survey about the american dream from the wall street journal. voters see the dream slipping out of reach.

here are the top line numbers. it asks if the american dream holds true today. just 36% saying if you work hard you can get ahead in this country. that compares to a little over a decade ago to 53% of americans who answered yes to the question. this is some analysis from that wall street journal survey. it offers the latest evidence americans across the polit spectrum are feeling economically fragile and uncertain the living standards remain sturdydst signs of economic and social progress. the american dream seemed most re to women. only 20% of women said the ideal of advancement for hard work still holds true. as did 48% of voters aged 65 and older. only 28% for those under 50. both parties reported a sense of

precariousness and disaffection. more from that wall street journal poll. does the american dream still exist? your comments from social media already. stephen brody writes on facebook. "the middle class is dying." john says, "anyone who says no is saying so because i have not tried or they gave up." tom saying, "not as long as politicians keep running up the debt and redistribute wealth to a handful of fatcats." tammy says, "it does not exist with this president." phone lines split by political parties. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. one of those viewers mentioning this president, joe biden.

yesterday he talked about supply chain heading into the holidays and the prospect for americans in their personal economies this holiday season. [video] >> this past week as americans gathered their own kitchen tables for thanksgiving dinner, that was our goal. to give them more breathing room. together we made progress. from turkey to air travel to a tank of gas, the costs went down. people make a lot of money, that doesn't matter a lot because the cost is relatively small compared to wealthy incomes. as a share of earnings, dinner was the fourth cheapest ever on record. i want you to know that. [applause] this is for -- chris is particularly excited about this. that is not all.

two years ago, 100 container ships were waiting to dock in port. this year there were less than 10. meaning that today as folks start their holiday shopping shelves are stocked. meaning that if major appliances like a stove or a fridge broke down over thanksgiving, you can replace it faster and 9% cheaper than two years ago. the savings matter to so many families, especially at this time of year. host: president biden yesterday from the white house. those comments, that rosy picture contrasts with some of the polling data about how americans are feeling about the economy. peer are a few headlines from this morning's papers. the new york times, their new york times. even biden voters are gloomy. grumpy on the job. you have company in this

country. one more from the op-ed pages of the washington times. the biden malaise is the headline. a rising misery index could be reversed with new policies. we are talking about the american dream, that concept if you work hard in this country you can get ahead. does that still apply? starting this conversation on the washington journal. phone lines for democrats, republicans and independents. james is up first out of pittsburgh. independent. go ahead. caller: the american dream. i don't believe it is a life of two-party system. i don't believe capitalism is the way we should go. i should be president but that's another story. that's about all i can say today. host: on the concept of the

american dream, the wall street journal poll, one question they asked besides working hard can you get ahead, do you think life in america is better or worse than it was 50 years ago? caller: me being 57 years old, it's worse. it's worse. host: why do you say that? caller: it just is. things have changed. i remember minimum wage was three don't 50 cent. everything was good -- $3.50. whenever the minimum wage goes up, everything else goes up. rent, food, everything else goes up. capitalism is not good. i don't like it. host: what is the system we should go to? caller: we need to get together and try to figure that one out. i can't do that by myself. the people need to do that.

host: james in pittsburgh. asking you if the american dream still exists in this country. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. we are basing this off a wall street journal story poll that came out asking for question if the american dream still holds true. here are the responses. 36% of americans saying it does still hold true. 18% of americans saying it never held true. the idea that if you work hard you can get ahead in the country. 45% of those who responded saying it once held true but not anymore. we want to know when that changed. phone lines for democrats, republicans and independents. johnny in albany, georgia. democrat. caller: hello?

i'm calling about the american dream. it is a trick and a lie. host: why do you say that? caller: because i'm looking at it. host: what do you mean? caller: i see it every day. host: how do you see it every day? caller: by looking around. host: tell me what you are seeing when you look around there, johnny. caller: [indiscernible] it ain't nothing but a trick and a lie. host: did it ever exist, johnny? caller: no, it never existed. it's a made up situation. to bring people here or keep them here or whatever to make money from it. it's about what they can make

money from. host: this is morris out of asheville, north carolina. republican. does the american dream still exist? caller: yes, absolutely. i believe that this country -- the history tells us we have had ups and downs. we have gone through tougher times than this. the people and what the country stands for is the reason we are resilient. things like the other caller mentioned that have gotten worse, increases in minimum wage for example causing the increase in the cost of other things. the fact is that this is a country of moral minded people, unlike anywhere else. i think we have to get through this but it will take a lot of patriotism, a lot of love. people through history have generally supported each other,

loved each other. even through all kinds of conflicts. religious conflicts, racial conflicts. my granddad and dead never -- dad never expected a handout. they got busy and got it done. host: for folks who say and have called into the program and said this before that the system is rigged, the idea that anybody can work hard and you can get ahead, it does not exist because the system is rigged against those who try to work hard. what do you say to those folks? caller: that's insane. my dad was born in huntsville, alabama in 1890. that was the height of jim crow. my mom sent five of seven children to college in the 1950's and 1960's. on the youngest of seven and i went in college -- to college.

my dad had a fourth grade education. my children today have good jobs. it is about managing your money. it's about keeping a positive mental attitude. it's about not yielding to that idea that we can't get ahead. all we have to do is look around the world. people are coming here and getting ahead. it doesn't make sense to say that. host: this is mark on the west coast out of l.a., independent. caller: good morning. i would say the american dream is still here. the problem is is a dream -- it is a dream. it is good it is a dream because people need to have goals. if we did not have a dream, people would not pursue it. in america there are three classes of people. there is the rich. they own everything. they run everything and make all

the decisions. then you have your middle-class. they pay all the taxes and do all the work. they are the dreamers. then you have the poor class, the homeless. they are there to scare the middle-class and do all the jobs and make all the production and produce all the goods. of course we have an american dream. if we did not make it a dream people would not follow it. what they are following, well, they are following somebody else's dream. host: did the american dream exist 50 years ago/ -- ago? scott out of rose hill, california. democrat. caller: good morning. so good to be in touch with you. we are car crashing the american dream right now. we are headlong into what could be a political nightmare. the most recent -- we are in

deep trouble. i am very concerned. i am disabled. i had a brain aneurysm at 39. i'm 53 now. i survived it. i kept my house. i can only hope to god i can buy one in california where i was born and raised. no. only just after world war ii where they had the housing complexes where you can come back home, raise your children and the baby boomers after the war no longer. we are looking at massive political corruption. i believe today is the day that george santos goes up on trial for massive corruption. he's hurley get back at congress

and the house and saying here we sit. everything is corrupt. how can you blame me because everything is already corrupt/ everything i did -- is already corrupt? everything i did is ok. trump is leading in the polls, if you believe the polls, where biden is doing the best he can with so much expense. we are not sitting pretty. we are kind of suffering from a cancer that is rampant in our society. is the american dream still alive? yeah, but has a terminal illness. god bless you, c-span. thank you for taking my call. host: that was scott in rose hill, california. a lot of expectations that george santos will be one of the few members of congress to be expelled from congress. jason dick will be joining us to take a look at the political

legislative road ahead on capitol hill. for the first hour of the washington journal we are talking about the american dream, the idea that if you work hard in america you can get ahead. do you think that still exists? is that still attainable today? (202) 748-8000 per democrats. -- for democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. independents, it is independent -- it is (202) 748-8002. frank, democrat . caller: i heard on the news opec will be cutting the oil and maybe the gas prices are going up again. is there any chance we could get our congress to stop the gas companies from gouging us? we -- people are buying a lot of goods and raising the economy up.

then they want to destroy us with gas prices. that's all i have to say. host: what are your thoughts on the american dream? caller: the american dream? yeah, i am pretty much living it. host: what do you mean? caller: i'm retired now. thanks to the union i got a good retirement. i'm doing fine. i'm doing fine. i don't really have much worries. host: how do you think unions are doing in this country? caller: if it wasn't for the unions this country would fall apart. way back when the coal miners first started, that is when the unions got formed. you had to live in the coal miner's home, buying from the coal miners' stores. we can make a decent wage now.

we would be scraping the barrel to make any money at all. host: is it say the health of the american dream depends on the health of unions? caller: partially. i'm not saying that's the whole thing. i would say that is a good bit of it. host: thanks for that call from pittsburgh. another reading of the american dream. axios story picking up on this wall street journal poll. the story says america's enormous wealth gap is often cited as the reason for the decline in the fate of the american dream. a 2020 analysis suggest it's less of a meritocracy than other wealthy countries. 12 inequality is high and wealth status is sticky. other scholars note americans over the generations have tended to be better off than their parents.

that is another metric by which the american dream could be measured. for the wall street journal poll they ask is the idea that if you work hard in this country you can advance, that's the definition they give for the american dream. asking you your thoughts on the back and dream. les in maryville, indiana. caller: good morning. i believe the american dream is still there but i believe to work, the game is rigged against you. i agree. the poverty income level is so high that it is unreal. it has been proven in the last strike they had with the autoworkers. the autoworkers had not been paid in 10 or 12 years. the companies had made record profits. after that, you know, they

decided not to even give these people a raise. they said they would be in bad shape and would not be able to afford it. it's a lot of narrative they give to all the people all the time. this is the reason ceos keep making so much money. host: did that strike prove the strength of unions? caller: most definitely. i'm a union member that retired. i was so proud they helped out. any time you can hold out to stop the wealthy from getting so much money -- if you look at the tax -- the wealthy tax breaks compared to the poor, it is discouraging. they don't pay their fair share in taxes. i have to say that if they paid their fair share in taxes we would not have problems as far as, you know, the homelessness,

the joblessness or anything. the wealthy are not paying their fair share in taxes. host: did you pay attention to the hollywood writers strike? what do you think that showed? caller: that showed if you stick to your guns and you hold out that they will have to crumble because they need you to complete the cycle. if they don't complete their cycle, they don't make any money. at some point in time they will have to bend their knees and have to give up. host: that is lis in indiana. charles from tacoma, washington next. is the american dream still attainable? caller: yes, it is. host: why is that? caller: it is sort of a rigged economy. i noticed you talked about 50 years ago. that is when manufacturers

started linking retirement to iras. the middle class started shrinking because the normal american was not working and getting the benefits or investing into for a ones -- 401's. people were not taking pride in their work. we have lost that in america. it is coming back. right. we are getting that back with the way the unions have started to fight for benefits again. corporations are seeing that and bending more towards it. another thing is the corporations have too much say in what our politics to, by either donations or super pac's and other ways of financing our politicians and political parties and trying to run it so

they get the tax breaks. i see under biden that has been changing. he is not going after just everybody. he's going after the ones using the system and the way they have written the laws. things like citizens united where a corporation can start making the rules about how people are supposed to live and stuff. it is confusing but to me the economy is struggling still from the last shutdown the other guy left us with and the problems he created. we are coming out of it and coming out good compared to the rest of the world. of course there are problems in the rest of the world. biden is the leader we need and he is showing how good he is doing on the world stage with hamas and the israeli thing right now. how he has handled ukraine and other issues.

he even got a big deal going with china now. they call him china joe. he's been china ambassador. he's been talking to them. we are getting stuff done in this country. they talk about border security and they say biden is not doing enough. they have legislation that will help secure the border and republicans balk at it because they need talking points about things that are making biden look bad. host: you talked about border security. it was a topic in the u.s. senate yesterday. the debate continues about aid packages to ukraine, to israel. what the white house is pushing for versus what republicans in congress are working for. this is mitch mcconnell on the floor of the senate talking about the importance of border security and any additional aid package that gets passed. [video] >> last month's total southern border encounters marked the

busiest october in decades. cpb records. the harsh reality of the biden administration's border crisis impacts millions of americans in cities across the country. i am thankful that senator langford and kotten have been working diligently on this legislation to address this crisis had on. senate republicans have been laser focused on actually fixing our broken asylum process, not just pouring money into a system that is simply not working. our democratic colleagues would do well to take these efforts seriously. the bottom line is simple. we don't have the luxury of a budget -- of addressing glaring threats to our national security one at a time. crises don't solve themselves just because washington cannot muster the political will to address them.

unfortunately senate democrats have already suggested they want to condition urgent resources for one of our top security priorities on not addressing another one. apparently our colleagues are considering putting support for israel on the chopping block unless we promise not to fix a border crisis they helped create. madam president, this sort of cynical, shortsighted politics has denied the american people real border security many times. host: mitch mcconnell yesterday from the senate floor. we will talk more about those supplemental bills and are 8:00 a.m. eastern our. the senate -- hour. the senate is back today at 10:00 a.m. the house is back at noon eastern for morning hour and 2:00 p.m. for legislative business. you can watch the house on c-span and the senate on

c-span2. back to the american dream. is the american dream, the idea that if you work hard you can get ahead, is that still attainable? a few of your comments from social media on that topic in the first half hour this morning. abby saying i think people need to sta exploring more unpopular or less traditional ways of getting there. set society norms to the side and set thet path for themselves. diane sankey american dream needs to be redefined. it is not the same as it was the 1950's or 1960's when it was climbing up the corporate ladder and buying a house. perhaps we need to reevaluate our v and lean into enjoying the smaller, yet important things inife. you can back to the 1700s. look for more equality, justice, individual liberty and the hope for a better tomorrow for all. catherine saying yes,heacon dream is attainable. however,f publicans and trump win just kiss it goodbye.

see what trump says about obamacare. name one policy republicans have passed that helps the middle class and the poor. elvis says the macon dream is over and the masses are waking up to the lies of capitalism. this is kathy in new york, republican. is the american dream still attainable? caller: of course it is. i think we are going in the rock -- wrong direction. when i was young i was cynical because a group in the 1960's and the 1970's in college. we had lots of crime in new york city. injustice. all the things that are going on now. we have the war in vietnam, lots of the people, lots of protests. you can go back as far as you want. when i was cynical my best

friend was born in egypt. he got kicked out because he was there at the wrong time when the suez canal war was going on. he was just a two-year-old kid. they had to go to france. it took him until he was 12 years old to get here. he used to say it's a great country, america. at 1.i said to him are you joking? he looked at me so sadly. he said you don't know what you don't know. you don't know what it's like around the world. everyone has the best chance here. my friend made a great in this country. the other friends made it successfully here. my grandfather was born in 1900 with a fourth-grade education made a great here. you can pick people from any period. host: is it easier or harder today to make it great here than the experiences of your friends? it is the latter harder to climb today? caller: i think it is about the

same. it was not easy then. interest rates were 11%. it was not easier, i don't think. i think it matters the person. everyone decides if you want to have something. if you're negative, you suck up the energy from going where you want. go for it. host: the american dream is our topic this morning. it is just about 7:30 on the east coast. taking your phone calls by political party. democrats, republicans and independents. connie, independent in florida. caller: good morning. i'm quite shocked to hear this as a topic this morning. i'm very glad it is though. i recommend everybody, if they can get past the swearing to look up on youtube george carlin, the american dream. it's a four and a half minute

comedy routine that he did for his hbo special back in 2005. it is so prophetic, it's unbelievable. he talks about the reason they call it the american dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. he talks about corporate greed and the politicians. corporate greed and owning the politicians and the lobbying and the worse and worse paying jobs with benefits that when you go to get them, the pension is not there. we don't even have pensions anymore thanks to george bush senior. this country went downhill when reagan came in, because as the movie wall street showed and the character gordon gecko showed, greed was good. that is when hippies became yuppies and it became all about corporate profits. what happened with our country

is that in the 1940's and 1950's people who were born in the 1940's and 1950's grew up in a country where ceos did not make 3000 times what the average employee makes. there were incentives as one of your other earlier -- your earlier callers said. they were practically given free housing, what we would call today affordable housing. all the track housing in southern california. they were able to build family wealth off of that now goes for a million dollars for a 1950's track housing. it is ridiculous. when reagan came in to office in the 1980's there started being an emphasis not on your community, not in giving back to your fellow people and help bringing them up, but how much money can i put in my bank account. that is when all these different investments started being developed.

derivatives and all this crazy stuff that took us down into the crash in 2007-2008. all this started with reagan and the people who followed reagan and the people who voted for reagan. host: what do you say to kids graduating college today and starting out in a career field, for kids who don't go to college and are starting out in the career field? is there any hope? caller: i say the gen z's are on the right track. i think they will -- because they will turn this country into more of what the nordic countries are. a mix between capitalism and social welfare. i think that is what this country needs. some of them are going further than that in our enter marxism. not supportive of that but i do believe in democratic socialism or you have a basic safety net for everyone. you don't have homeless people,

on housed people -- unhoused people. that started again with reagan. i hadn't seen one of those people until the second reagan administration. wow, there is somebody who doesn't have a house to go to every night? host: what else do you tie into that safety net? housing, health care? caller: higher education if one wanted, for sure. -- wants it, for sure. daycare. you have to help your population transcend if they are born into a lower socioeconomic status. if they are born poor, the working class and they want to become an educated person or a professional person, a doctor or lawyer, you have to help them move there. you cannot keep them poor because they were born poor. that is what the wealthy of this country do. the politicians support the

wealthy who support the corporations who say you were born poor, oh well. too bad for you. no family wealth for you. no owning housing, which is how you build wealth in this country. no. it's ridiculous. there is no american dream anymore. host: we will stay in florida with michael next on the line for democrats. what is your opinion about the american dream today? caller: i think it is coming back. i think the reason is the president we have an office right now. he realizes the unions this country in the 1950's and 1940's. i believe he's bringing it back. he will give us -- the unions are getting stronger. the wages are going up. the kids will have another option besides college. they can go through apprenticeship programs. if they don't what to go to college, they can make good

money going through the unions. the lady that just spoke about the reagan times, people don't realize he was the downfall of this country. everybody praises this guy. he was not good. in 1983, he signed a bill that the republicans put into tax social security. one of the nets to help people. he taxed it. the republicans did it. they don't care about working people. they never have. they care about corporate america. people, what this election coming up better realize that is what they want. they do not want you to make or have an american dream. they don't want to give workers a chance. they don't care about the workers. the workers have got to unite and go out and vote in the next election. host: you say this president is the reason the american dream is coming back. hi dona how much you pay attention to polls or believe in polls but this is the headline from a front-page story today in the new york times.

even biden voters are gloomy about the economy despite the data. taking a look at just biden 2020 supporters in swing states. the number of those who say the economy is excellent or good if they make under $50,000, only 30% say the economy is excellent or good and these are biden voters. if they make over $100,000, biden voters, only 42% say the economy is excellent or good. 47% it is poor or fair. it breaks down the line. young people, just 11% of biden voters say the economy is excellent or good. 62% of those 65 and older say the economy is good. why aren't even biden voters seeing it? caller: the polls are not correct. i don't go by polls.

i go by people i talked to. people i talk to everyday. i listen to people. these poles can be run all they want but he's going in the right direction. he's taking the country where they need to go. what did he inherit from the guy that left? $7 trillion in debt, corporate debt. everybody said he did so great. they said they will abolish obamacare. they didn't have a plan to get people health care. the unions have a plan to give you health care. they give people health care. we are not a liability on society. as far as defying benefit plans, they are down to 13%. during the reagan years they wanted people to manage their own money. you know why? corporate america did not want the liability of a defined benefit plan. we will give it to the people. let them worry about their retirements. that's the problem you have today with people retiring. the 401(k) they could dip into

an take the money up before retirement and a lot of them don't have retirement. what has happened is they convinced the people of this country it is good. you don't need the unions. you do need them. you need him badly. host: thanks for that call from florida. we will head to the buckeye state. grove city, ohio. this is tim on the republican line. does the american dream still exist? caller: yes, i believe the american dream is still attainable. the whole concept has been reverted -- perverted. stick your nose to the grindstone, work hard, show chauffeur work, do a good job, your rewards will come has been pretty much replaced with this is america. you are a fool if you have to go to work everyday. you can live in mom's basement, sell drugs, sue somebody come and go on welfare or any other thing. a lot of your callers have

talked about welfare and stuff. reagan taught you can do this stuff on your own. you can take care of yourself. people still do. you can become a millionaire by posting something stupid online. this is america. however, everything can't be done for you. host: if the american dream is defined as working hard to get ahead, you save people lose the first clause of that, if you work hard? caller: exactly. work hard and take pride in your work. there is not much left and that today. host: and you can still get ahead of you actually do that? is it easier today to get ahead then it was in the past or harder to get ahead for the people? caller: you can get ahead. a lot of people misunderstand. they want to become that ceo. not everybody can become a ceo

or an owner. it takes time to get to that. you have to work hard to get to that. that is part of the american dream. you can still maintain -- i supported a family and raised three kids. i owned a house. i never got rich i work hard and i did a good job and here i am. host: what kind of work do you do? caller: i was a restaurant manager for 35 years. host: what do you say to your kids, tim? caller: i tell them the same thing. they are not the same. they are not successful. they did go to college. one did graduate. they work hard. they have had houses and maintained themselves. we don't depend on other things or have to go sue somebody or live in mom and dad's basement. they don't live here. host: getting ahead does not

necessarily meaning being a ceo but having a stable life? caller: yes. it is nice to be a ceo but at the end of the day as long as you provided and took care of your family, to me you lived the american dream. host: to the mountaineer state. clarksburg, west virginia. ed, independent. caller: thank you for receiving my call. i am 88 years old. i am blind. i can't walk without the aid of a walker. in 1953, i made $.75 an hour. i worked for the same company until 1972. in 1972, i was making less than two dollars an hour. i was promised by my small business owner that eventually i

was in a trade where my trade, other places would have paid probably $300 a week. there is no american dream. it is percentages, unionized for outlandish wages, corporations asking for outlandish prices, and the poor guy at the bottom hollers because he's getting food stamps. he gets a little bit of food stamps and they think he's alright, he can live now. no. unions and corporations are killing us. president kennedy was elected, i was making $.75 an hour. key brought it up to one dollar. -- he brought it up to a book. there was a -- buck. the head of the pipefitters union was making three dollars an hour. he brought it up a dollar an

hour three years in a row. $6 an hour. i had friends in those unions. a dollar an hour and six years. they made $9. we guys out here and got no dream. we just try to exist. i just wanted you to know that. host: thanks for the call from clarksburg. about 15 minute left in the segment. asking simply does the american dream still exist in this country? ruth anne in virginia, democrat. caller: good morning. i have made it from the working poor to the middle class because of a pay scale bargained by the government union afte. host: when did that happen for

you, ruthanne? caller: i started work in -- for the government in 1970 and worked my way up for 40 years with the government union afte. it made a lot of difference because i was under an age and gender discrimination suit when i hit 62 before i retired. the union helped me find that and i won. host: how do you think unions are doing in this country today? caller: they are building up again. starbucks has got a union. there is another teamsters that's got a union. they are starting to build up and they are going to need it because the ceos are making so much money off of workers. they call it private -- i get this is quiet firing now.

they don't have any communication. no transparency. the workers do not have that. host: thanks for that call. this is john out in california, republican. caller: good morning, john. good to see you on again. anyway, the american dream still exists. the problem with obtaining the american dream is if you are doing anything at all and you can make any kind of money, you are partners with the government. state, federal, even local and you are giving about a third of what you make, in some cases more than that to the government to institute these programs that really accomplish very little. most of our welfare programs create more people on welfare than it does then getting people off welfare. the lady said it started with reagan.

a house in 1970 cost about $25,000 to $30,000. by the time you got through the jimmy carter administration, it was costing about $60,000. interest rates were almost 20% prime. 13%, 14% mortgage rates. there was no way a young person could afford a house. maybe not even a car back in those days. the 1970's was the decade of gas lines and runaway inflation. we were concerned about 9% inflation in the last couple of years. we had 50%, 20% inflation during the carter administration in the 1970's. reagan fixed that. he really did. host: bring me to the past decade. this survey about the american dream done for years for the wall street journal and their partners.

36% say the idea that if you work hard you can get ahead. 36% saying that holds true today. in 2012, 53% of americans, more than half said if you work hard in this country you can get ahead. what happened in the past 11 years? caller: well, one of the things is we had inflation rates we have not seen in about 20 years. you go out and make $100,000 a year, which most of my lifetime that was a pretty good income. now it doesn't really go very far. if you're going to have any kind of house at all, it costs $400,000. despite the fact nobody wants to hear it, that goes right to the government. what is intriguing to me is almost everybody, from the far left liberals to far right conservatives as well, it is the

people in our government. most of the people that are running our government today have been there for literally decades. up to and including the guy we have in the white house today. most people think we are on the wrong track. 70% or 80% say we are on the wrong track. the election is over in 2024, 90% of the same people that are in office today are going to be in office then with the same policies. if you don't like the way things are, quit voting for the same people from my republican congressman to the new york left-wing democrats. quit reelecting these people that are doing the same thing. they are overtaxing us. we don't have a spending problem. i saw a guy on your program to were three weeks ago.

he was talking about in order to get us out of this deficit, which is insurmountable. $33 trillion deficit is almost unsurmountable. the people that have given us that which caused high interest rates which caused high inflation are the same people that have been there for mostly decades. you look at the number of incumbents that were ever voted out of office, that's the problem. it is not necessarily that reagan was too conservative and in my book he did a lot of good things. the bushes, they had some foreign policy problems. these endless wars we seemed to stumble into every generation. but our national debt is insurmountable. the government is going to take a huge percentage. if you had somebody that wanted

to be partners with you and did not do anything and said by the way, i want 30% to 40% of what you make every year you would think they are crazy. the government does that. if you add it up the amount the government takes away from the working people causes them -- if you had a gross income and they did not have to give a third of it to the government or an extra 9% or 10% or 20% like they have now for inflation that is also caused by the government, then yeah, the american dream would be attainable and people would not feel so depressed about it. host: we have several other colors and we are running short on time. the american dream is what we are talking about. annie in fairfax, california. independent. thanks for waiting. are you with us? you have to stick by your phone.

this is lori in hamburg, pennsylvania. democrat. caller: the american dream changes from generation to generation. when immigrants first came and built america their dream was to give their children citizenship. american citizenship. i think we have to listen to this generation's ideas and mindfulness about things that are affecting them that make them feel as though the american dream as defined by someone as being rich is not exactly what they are looking for. they are looking to see people living with dignity. they know that you need political and economic freedom and private property. without those things you cannot make choices to feel successful or be successful. whether it is financially or just happiness in your life.

they have to know that stuff cannot be taken away from them. workers used to be considered an asset. now they are considered a liability. that makes people not want to stay with that company. my grandfather worked for the same company after he left world war ii. he retired from there. he had a great private pension. him and my grandmother lived comfortably. until they passed away maybe 25 years later . i think we will go through a difficult time but those who can sacrifice have to be willing to do so. the pain has to be perceived as reasonably shared. right now people are living non-dignified lives. it is more of an american idea. things change as times go on. it is the american idea.

what is your idea of happiness? what defines your american idea? it is different to each generation. homeownership, education are both paths to a great american idea. sometimes children to have to live with their parents. i think that is something else that has been criticized because some of the other cultures have their generations living together in one home. that way the parents can go to work, because the grandparents can help with the children. the parents can also help take care of their parents as they get older. that is not being lazy or anything like that. that is just helping the family out. it is a great idea. watch other cultures and how close they are with their families.

for some reason it is like your kids have to get out of your house, get a job, do this. it is a family thing and it is a collective effort. the unions are doing great. host: mark in des moines, iowa. we want to get the callers that are waiting. caller: i think the american dream is about greed unfortunately. i think we are in big trouble. we have the porous borders that are bleeding all of our social systems dry. it will affect the jobs availability. we have record inflation. young people don't have a chance to buy a house without a lot of help. we have our own family. we are just in big trouble. we could be on the verge of world war iii with nuclear power. we have a white house that is out to lunch and not paying

attention to what is going on. they are stirring the pot, the democrats. they have ruined america with this last president. the only way we'll get saved is if we get trump back in there. a lot of people hate that. i was a democrat for decades but i will never be a democrat for what they have done. they all vote against everything the republicans want to do. it is unbelievable the system we have right now. host: this is dave from south carolina, independent. does the american dream still exist? caller: good morning, john. it has been a while. i just turned your show on. can you tell me what you are calling the american dream? host: if you work hard in this country you can get ahead regardless of your background. caller: i would say in some cases that is true. in some cases it is not. if you have someone that can get you a decent job that pays well, i would say yes.

you have to understand this all came about for a generation that came back from fighting japanese and germans. people that faced bonsai attacks and blitzkriegs were not going to return to america where their families had to go without so the people at the top could survive. one generation was taken care of. as i got to the end of that generation, if you noticed in our history it started to whittle down. now look where we are at. more of a discrepancy in incomes that we have seen since 1931. no. i would say what you are calling the american dream is shadows and mirrors. host: another definition is that each generation overall is better off than the generation before. that's another way people define the american dream.

is that not the case anymore either? caller: i think the younger generation have access to more data. the problem is the accuracy and truthfulness of that data they are receiving. if it is good and true then it will help them. otherwise, the same people that are rich, their children are going to be rich. it is like the trump family. he inherited millions of dollars when he wasn't one year old and then he grows up, gets a tv show and tells all the workers he will help them. why? why would anybody actually believe something like that? i vote by the person. i used the be a registered party member -- to be eight a registered party member. i lost contact with them. i was a construction worker.

i got a pension out of it. most people will not get that. most people are looking at living on social security and social security is what the people at the top are talking about shopping now. i don't know how to frame what the american dream dream is --what the american dream is. i think if we all get a little more tolerant of each other and start listening to each other instead of screaming at the top of her lungs we might -- our lungs we might see we have more in common than we thought. host: one comment from roger on the idea of the american dream. "i believe the american drea still obtainable. when we purchased our fi home iade $7.50 an hour and my wife interest rates were 7.5%. today the jobs we are working at at that time pay $19 and30

an hour. i run runeople who earn twice what w't at that timend a renting while driving a bmw and taking twor three vacations a year. the american dream is no longer the house with a white picket fence. people are living that every day." th is roger in texas. the american dream needso change from a pursuit of wealth to a pursuit of virtue, that is tom. this is from ian. the american dream only worked for -- and capitalism. one more call out of detroit, thanks for waiting. guest: yes, american dream, i'm seven years old, vietnam-era veteran, have three kids from generation x and we have lived

the american dream but i agree with some people, that world war ii generation, if you talk to them, the american dream is being able to buy those brand-new homes. the african-american world war ii veterans didn't have the opportunity to build wealth in poverty. so even in this neighborhood to last african-american community built on world war ii veterans, the zip code in detroit. and the wealth of the suburbs around us, the white suburbs is about one third the value, even today. and my children did well. they were scholarship kids, but we put a lot of emphasis on that. when we bought this house, we paid $17,500 for it in the 70's just before i got out of the service and the interest rate

was only 3.5 on a 30 year mortgage. i think now that people are having less children or no children and they talk about buying $400,000 homes, he's right, taking a lot of trips. i did well after 15 years, but now these $400,000 home, they are not doing well. another thing, i don't think service is being done with immigrants because southwest detroit has the largest hispanic community outside of texas, florida and california. there are several generations born and raised in the area. several generations next to the community living in the homes. you tried to get white and black

, grandparents, parents and children living in the same home, working. grandmother likes when the cars go in the driveway and who will go out first. you are not asking them, they are living the american dream. they came by the boat. they are living the american dream. host: thanks for that from detroit, michigan. our last color in this first segment, we will ended. -- and it's there. plenty more to talk about including up next, we will be joined by the editor-in-chief -- and talk about congressional week ahead and the rest of this year's legislative agenda. and later, the fentanyl crisis with the director of the addiction and public policy initiative at georgetown's o'neill institute. we will be right back.

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book tv.org. 25 years of television for serious readers. washington journal continues. host: welcome back jason dick, editor-in-chief of -- on capitol hill. let's start on the political side. this headline, the lead story right now, will george santos, robichaux of georgia center -- will the show of george santos go on? >> the answer is it will go on at least for the short term. we don't know how much longer in congress but it seems like santos will be with us one way or another for a while he was parodied on saturday night live recently. he is now part of the cultural fabric of our lives, at least our political lives. but the most immediate issue is

whether he will be expelled from the house this week. michael guesses a republican from mississippi, filing a motion to expel santos to provide to other expelling -- in this congress, he's only been here since january and this will be the third time. some democrats were saying they don't feel comfortable with the lack of due process, some people say that is just an attempt to keep them in the headlines. but it seems like the ethics committee report that came out a little bit before thanksgiving break was very damming. in detailed him spending money at casinos and for botox, just little tidbits that are just kind of amazing. it really is a good read if you

are so inclined. the ethics committee website, some of it even gets into his staff who seek therapy, he had made lying such a part of his daily life that they needed to get help. this isn't the end of it regardless of what happens for him, but it seems like this week things might come to a head which brings into question all kinds of things. defense authorization, conference reports come all the other things. host: one that would be competitive the democrats could pick up. guest: parts of queens that was held by a democrat most recently. santos won the seat in the 2022.

he had lost to the incumbent and then ran for governor. he has said he is going to run regardless. he may run in a special election if there is a special election because the seat is vacant if he is expelled or running in 2024 regardless. host: with such tight margins, every seat is important. we've seen a lot of people heading to the -- recently, announcements and the past couple of days. take it -- take us through what it means for that math in the house. guest: everyone of these seats seems to set off another planning scenario for how long will we have this person? so many resignations that resolve recently. the buffalo area democrats that he is leaving february to take a

job closer to home. that will likely be a democratic seat in the future but who knows how long the seat will be vacant? the conservative republican from ohio has said he is going to take the job as president of youngstown fate in ohio. he needs to take that job before march. he doesn't know exactly when he is leaving. that will be likely a republican who will replace them, but again, when you take one out and you see the margins for which some of these votes happened, it drives a planner crazy. host: it is an unusual number of people who are leaving congress this cycle. we used to call it the casualty list. people who are retiring, people running for higher office. all referred to as part of the casualty list. is the cash to list unusually high in this congress? guest: if it were to stay

relatively static, this would be a little bit higher than average, usually about 30 people or so move on. right now we are pushing 36, 37. it is for a variety of reasons. it does seem that it is starting to pick up pace with a number of people, among the other people who have left recently, tony carr dennis, the democrat from california. chris stewart, who is a republican from utah, he left in september. special election was just filled to his seat. bringing the house up to 435 for the first time in a long time. it is a lot of mix-and-match, but it seems like the last month or so has really picked up the pace in the texas filing deadline is soon. host: that forces the decision

of whether they are going to run or not. guest: right. texas might push it into an area where we see a lot more than normal. host:host: from the legislative side, the latest on the emergency aid packages for israel, ukraine. precious few legislative days left in this calendar here. so what are we expecting to see today and next week? guest: we are going to see people talking about the fact that they are going to be talking. we're not expecting any sort of substantive thing on either floor of either chamber this week when it comes to a ukraine security package. there is a lot of momentum at least among the congressional leaders. yesterday, mike johnson said of oars we need to get money to ukraine, we can't afford to have vladimir putin marching across europe. that is a more aggressive thing

that some people were looking for, some people who support ukraine. he also said it needs to be coupled with a border security package which is one of those things that we booked in washington for a long time. they will is talked about immigration reform. that is always a fraught topic to try to attach to something that is considered must-have. so i think we are going to see a lot of people talking about do we couple ukraine-israeli aid into taiwan as well and border security, and can we get that out the door when the house wants to leave?> host: one minute 30 seconds of chuck schumer yesterday on the senate floor. republicans on border security in this larger aid package. >> the worst thing we can do right now, the worst thing we can do is to make something as bipartisan as ukrainian aid conditional on partisan issues that have little chance of

becoming law. sadly, that is what may well be happening right now, because the biggest hold up to national security supplements is some republicans on partisan border policy as a condition for ukraine aid. this has injected a decade-old hyper partisan issue into overwhelmingly bipartisan priorities. democrats stand ready to work on commonsense sense solutions to address immigration, but purely partisan hard right demands jeopardize the entire national security supplemental package, and i urge my colleagues as they think about that to remember what president zelenskyy told us when he spoke in the old senate chamber. he said if we don't get the aid, we will lose the war. let me repeat that. zelenskyy said if we don't get the aid, we will lose the war. that is the state with ukrainian aid.

the possibility of victory or defeat the ukrainian people and ultimately our western way of life, and let's be clear, a victorious prudent would be in emboldened putin. if ukraine falls, putting will keep going. russia's authoritarian influence will expand. other autocracies may feel emboldened and democracy around the world would enter decline. host: chuck schumer on the floor of the senate yesterday. as this debate is happening on capitol hill, what role of the white house playing and how much russia can and are they applying to what is happening here on the other end of pennsylvania avenue? >> it seems like the message is a little muddled. they obviously want to get a package up north and possible, with as much flexibility as possible. hopefully coupled with israeli and gaza for humanitarian purposes. it just seems like they are not

escalated. yesterday, the president when he was announcing his supply chain council and his executive orders to streamline the supply chain made some comments about it, but he hasn't been fully aggressive. there's only so much pushing you can do in these. sometimes when you are hurting, it is not even stray cats at this point. i think it is still at the cattle stage. you can only do so much to push people in one direction. they are just getting back. it is a relatively slow start even though it seems like we are running out of days before the end of the year. the house is just coming back today, the senate came back last night. they are not in a huge hurry to get something on the war and also the president has said he

is going down to atlanta today for the memorial services for rosalynn carter. i'm sure that that was sort of occupy most of his time and most of the messaging. they don't want to look like they are going partisan and pushing for war aid during a funeral. host: that service taking place today as part of three days of tributes for the former first lady. we are going to be airing it on c-span, also on c-span.org and the free c-span now app. 1:00 p.m. eastern today for that service in atlanta at the glen memorial united methodist church. we are talking this morning with the editor-in-chief of roll call, a very good person if you have questions about the legislation with the politics on capitol hill. phone lines are open for you to call in. as usual it is split by political party. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002.

as folks are calling in, what else is on congress'to do list in the next couple weeks before the end of the calendar year? guest: we did catch a little bit of a break. we usually have this massive rush at the end of the year on appropriations. the government funding deadlines have been pushed into january and february, so there will not be that. but they always like to do the big pentagon policy build. they are going to conference, it looks like, and it looks like there was sort of a bipartisan move to get that done before the end of the year. the faa could be reauthorized as well, especially in light of recent reports about near misses at airports. if you've been traveling the last couple of months or couple of days, you know that there could be some improvements possibly in the way that we move people through airports. host: busiest travel day in

history. guest: yes, two point 9 million people screened by the tsa. the fda, there is stuff about pilot training, modernizing air traffic control and so forth that needs to be done, particularly for a country is on the move as we are. there's also a bunch of things that people don't think about a lot that are equally important. medicare is scheduled to cut the pay of doctors who take medicare. usually, congress had that off one way or another. right now it is unclear what the vehicle may be. there's a bunch of tax provisions that they always like to get done before the end of the year. host: another year of tax breaks for research and develop them. guest: a lot of things like that. this is what a lot of lobbyists spend a great deal of their time on and what makes a lot of corporations make decisions going into the next business

year about what they are going to spend money on and so forth. so these are all big ticket items that need a home and need to get done before the end of the year. even though we don't have to worry about appropriations as much before christmas and new year's, and college bowl season, of course, they still have a lot on their plate to get done. host: and of course, come back in january and there that awning lined up for january 19. let me take some calls. bakersfield, california is first. independent, good morning. >> good morning. jason, i was wondering if you could ask to me house speaker johnson does not suffer the same fate as speaker mccarthy. i've been trying to think about it, he has been able to delay it for a while. but i just don't see it happening. i was wondering if you could maybe explain it to me. guest: it is a bit of a guessing

game with us because he has run into some of the same exact problem, he pointed out. mccarthy didn't have enough votes to get those continuing resolutions across the finish line, he had to rely on democrats. and johnson, we've seen he's run into some of the same problems where it doesn't take much for somebody to say i'm not going to support this unless i get my vote on amendments. they pulled a number of appropriations bills from the floor because of this reason right before thanksgiving. you may recall that they left sort of suddenly in the middle of the week, the week before thanksgiving because they had pulled the appropriations bill and they didn't have anything else to do. the feeling on capitol hill was let's just get people out and let them cool off a little bit.

it is hard to see how things cool off when you're talking about expelling a member from the chamber. as we come back, there are a lot of ceilings still and i think that is reflected a little bit when they make their statements about why they are retiring. this is about as good an answer as i have, is that mike johnson doesn't have as many enemies as kevin mccarthy has. mccarthy has been around for a long time and he has been a staffer for bill thomas before. he accumulated a long record of personal relationships and personal enemies. as any member does, you accumulate experiences and sometimes those stick with you, good and bad. mike johnson hasn't been around as long, and he may be in a

little that of a honeymoon phase. particularly in the house freedom caucus, people are giving him a little bit more room to run. but we are seeing some frustrations that are doubling up. before we left, chip roy, republican from texas went on the house floor and challenged his colleague to say give me one thing that we've done that i can run for reelection and that frustration is likely still there. we may be able to avoid some of the biggest fights that we gotten away on with spending, but the other question is who is next? there has to be some speaker in order to get any sort of business done, and it seems like mike johnson just enjoys a little bit more goodwill among the republicans holding caucus then kevin mccarthy did. host: his relationship with the other leaders in congress, what

you find most interesting? mcconnell, chuck schumer? what do we know about this relationship? >> not a whole lot. the relationship with mitch mcconnell, the senate minority leader is to me the most interesting part of it. just in raw terms, he can ignore jeffrey's in the house because house majorities have a power when they stick together. that is not there in the senate. of course, the majority can kind of run rush if they want. that doesn't mean that they will, but it doesn't seem to be an antagonistic relationship at this point. but it is also not as relevant as his relationship with mitch mcconnell in the senate. they've set themselves up in this weird thing where mcconnell obviously wants to give him as much running room, but they don't always see i to i. they certainly don't see i to i on ukraine and israel

supplemental. mcconnell wants to get that money out the door as soon as possible. johnson, the israeli aid with cuts to the irs. i'm sure mitch mcconnell doesn't have any left the irs, but he sees this as a problem for democrats to support in the senate. i think those relationships and the relationship with schumer, they've met. they seem to have met a few times and there doesn't seem to be anything antagonism, but that doesn't mean the positions of a whole are very firm. so it will be interesting. and it's also brand-new. you hear this a lot, he is new. he won't be new for long. host: republican, good morning, you are on. caller: i told you like six months ago i am ultra, ultra maga. i know you are part of the media

but i think you are a spokesperson for the democratic party. you just said that we have to fund ukraine and the border. you recording schumer. the border has got to be secondary. we've got a fun irs, but we can't fund the border. you guys are living in a bubble out there. this government is on its way to a massive cry -- nine. and then you have the people coming illegally that we have no idea who they are. 200 people on the terror watch list. we can't cross the border but we have to get money to ukraine to seven years ago the 2016 election to make sure trump win-win because he was planted by russia. israel is our real ally. but people in that city -- not

the host, because he seems like a nice man, they need to wake up. if we don't control the borders, i want to help -- host: let me assure you jason di ck is a nice man as well. back to the immigration issue and the site on capitol hill. guest: one thing that joe is reflecting on his a lot of people you look in public polling and the thing on the front of most people's minds is crime, inflation, immigration, border security. these are the kitchen table issue that people are concerned about. this is the stuff that will define what the election is about. we are in the middle of the election cycle and this also speaks to the difficulty of trying to resolve some of these issues combined with other issues. i think there is a wide agreement among republicans and democrats that they need to get

israel aid a supplemental package. anyone who has been to the border knows the situation needs to be addressed. one of the bill for the house will consider this week is revoking a lease that new york city has with the park service to house temporarily migrant in new york city. in this sort of field. this is top of mind for a lot of people but it also is, for where things fit into big legislative packages including something like immigration, as collocated as it is, it's just going to slow a lot of other things that people feel strongly about as well. host: nathan gonzalez, your election analysis editor. republicans focus on battleground polls.

democrats pointing to off year race election results. guest: again, nathan always was trying to look for just a little jan what we're seeing in front of us and he's already thinking about the iowa caucuses for the republicans are in january. they are going to be here as soon as we know. even with democrats shuffling the calendar in vindman, that is happening any matter of months. both of the front runners are relatively weak. they are both immensely unpopular with the public. both are underwater. that doesn't mean that the polls aren't going to show one thing or another, but the battleground polls that you were talking about, that nathan talks about, donald trump has been looking very good in places like michigan and pennsylvania and arizona and georgia, the states that will decide the election.

aunt nathan's point is that is overlooking the tremendous legal jeopardy that the former president binds himself in in cases in washington, new york, miami. so to just say you've got these other people, relatively strong fields in nikki haley, ron desantis. these are former governors, current governors, only you and ambassador. they are ready to make their case. chris christie, our former governor, and no one seems to be listening because it is like trump is beating biden in georgia. so let's walk on by like there is nothing to see here. on the democratic side, democrats to do very well in the off year elections and they did very well in 2022. they lost the house, we are talking about red tsunamis and so forth. that didn't happen.

it was reflected in how tight the margins are in the house and senate how divided the country is. biden is not a great -- well, he made -- might be a good retail guide but it is hard to see him firing up in the same way that will be see people like trump's crowds were so forth, or enthusiasm. biden has got a series of legislative accomplishment that he can run on. inflation is down, the job market is pretty good. nathan's point is that this overlooks that the guy has been unpopular for months. the numbers of a certain point get baked in, and if other people are raising their hand, dean phillips unroll, -- on the rollcall casualty list, is going to raise his hand. but right now the president is all in on reelection at least at

this point and it seems like for people who want to see other options, it is this slow-moving movie where they just don't know how to stop the momentum for either one. host: nathan gonzalez, a columnist but also the inside elections. talking onthe politics, the policy , the week ahead and the mom ban on capitol hill. augusta, georgia, good morning. caller: good morning. i was trying to get in yesterday but the phone call dropped. when i was going to say is if congress stops taking all these vacation days off like the whole month of august, they could get an agenda done. and besides, the statistical numbers show that president biden has done very well with

his bipartisan agenda along with the republicans in the senate and the democrats in the senate. it is the guys in that house that are being full or shan then we got stop listening to that rhetoric that former president trump is saying because he's telling us he wants to be an autocrat. stay at work and get the job done and not take off the whole month of august. when i work at the chemical plant, i work as much overtime as i could to make sure the plant kept running effectively, efficiently. but these guys take too much time off. host: thanks for the call. and i've already queued up jennife's tweet from ju a few minutes of saying i can't believe congress has been on vacation for two weeks and they're already planning another vacation december 14. how many weeks of they often december? guest: it is a little bit of a misnomer to call it a vacation.

when members are in their districts, i think it is easy to say i don't get to work in two places at once. the reason they call it district work, it is debatable about how much work is being done. and again, i realize how tenuous they can be, how out on a limb for can be to defend congress. i'm not defending congress, believe me. i've seen the numbers. but members of congress, when they go home to the district and their home state, they are interacting with people. the mayor, government officials to get things done they meeting with constituents on a regular basis. so it's not just a vacation.

that being said, particularly election years, attendance is not great at the capitol. primaries, people need to go home and if they running for election, they need to be back in the district at least for some time for that. but as the caller in georgia said, they were gone for a month in august. it was actually a little over a month. it was a week or so tacked onto that. that is tough to defend when there are so many things were are trying to do. host: and then some members were complaining that some of the tension we saw a right before the thanksgiving break, shoving in the hallway or elbows in the hallway and calls to fight in a senate hearing may have been due to members being around each other for too long, that they spent too many weeks here

together and that was what was built up. what do you take from that? guest: i have some sympathy because that was a traumatic 10 weeks to go through all these speaker elections, to see this sort of boulder go up the hill and roll back down and roll back up. it was tense. but i have to say that when they say 10 straight weeks in session, what they are really talking about is three solid workdays in the middle of the week and then they go all at the end of the week and they come back at the beginning of the next week. it's not like they are here locked in a room or so forth. i'm not advocating that they get locked in a room, that would probably be bad for everybody involved. but i can't help but think that if members of congress were actually in town for sizable chunks of these were periods here, like a full week and weekend for two or three weeks at a time, that may have more

positive effects in terms of getting people to know each other, getting their work done than if they are in session for 10 weeks in a row but really they are back, back-and-forth. for some of these folks, that is just a long haul. one of the members who has decided to retire, he talked about those long trips to washington. 5, 6 hours from d.c.. making every week seems like a real drag. that is a chain from the way things used to be. when he was elected in the 80's he got a train ticket here and a train ticket back. that was it. it is a little different now. we are a more mobile country, but maybe if they were here for a solid few weeks at a time they might get a little bit more done than before going onto the next recess. host: mr. ohio alex, line for

democrats. caller: good morning. what you are saying about the congresspeople staying in washington for the whole week for even a weekend, i think that is a great idea. we were talking that george santos before and now that he's got his name all over the country, he had a great teacher apparently with all of his lies. i'm wondering after he gets out of congress if he's going to run for resident. donald trump lied his way into being the president, so why shouldn't he? that isn't necessarily a joke. funny things have happened. but what happened eight years ago, that's enough. guest:guest: any scenario where santos is expelled from

congress, he still is in a lot of trouble. he still faces 23 federal counts against them. federal prosecutors are kind of combing through his financial disclosures and his history. he will be under a lot of scrutiny for a while and potentially faces prison time depending on what happens in court with him. he will be busy regardless of how long he is in congress. if you were to surround his whole term he might spend a lot of that determine court houses also. expelling may be the easiest thing that he faces in the coming months. host: youngstown ohio, independent. caller: good morning, gentlemen, how are you doing? >> there is no defenses congress , they are the epiphany of everything -- that pitted me -- epitome of every thing that is

wrong with this country. they only work, if you can call it work, 120 days, and i'm being very generous as. soon as anybodygoes into congress , i don't care whether you are a senator or a representative, you have turned to the dark side. these people are making almost $200,000 per year to do absolutely nothing for the american people. as far as the wars go, i don't support any of it. i don't have any say. and it doesn't matter who you vote for, because the pentagon and these warmongers are going to continue. so there is no defense, mr. dick, of congress ever. there is not one that deserves any respect because they have no integrity. you folks have a great day and have a nice holiday. host: on that view of congress. guest: i feel the need to

reiterate, i'm not defending congress. i'm just trying to explain sort of what i see. but i think that her frustration is not rare. and also as is a call from youngstown. good luck to bill johnson, a member of congress who is going to transition and become the president of youngstown university. i mean, it remains to be seen how he will be greeted by the student body. certainly the trustees believed in him and want to see him, it's understandable why somebody like him to go back. it is a lot easier to see how you can do some good back home sometimes. but this is what every member of

congress probably has to face. very few people, i think, get into public service to be hated. that is kind of where we are at. again, this is not a defense of congress and how they behave, but i think that a lot of people come to congress and public service whatever capacity, the neighborhood commissioner or u.s. senator, wanting to do something good for the people around them, for their community, for the country. and then reality hits. and we are in a rough patch right now. quite honestly, the country in the world are any relatively unstable time. and that was a real challenge that has got to be weighing on every person who seeks reelection, who contemplate retirement. back to the people who were retiring, it is a mix. there is a freshman on that list, victoria spartz who very early onset i think i'm done here. i don't need any more of this.

there's people like michael burgess who have been in congress for decades. they are at a point in their life where they are like, i've done what i set out to do and i'm getting a little tired and maybe i want to spend some time back home with the grandkids. i've done my part. but i think that every one of them, when you feel like you are doing a good thing it, when you feel like you're making an impact, it is a lot easier to say i'm going to keep doing this and i think a lot of people are frustrated not just with congress, but in congress with the pace of things. host: won a tweet in defensof district work. says my u.s. represented has nstuents that need to be dealt with. if they stay in d.c., how will they know what voters want? legislative sessions is only part of what congress does. in just a couple minutes we have

left, philadelphia, pennsylvania, republican. thanks for waiting. caller: good morning. i wanted to say i was watching the program earlier and congress talks about and the media talks about it's interesting that our country with so much poverty and people struggling, when you travel internationally to dubai and china and south africa, these countries are thriving and also look at countries where we give billions and billions of dollars such as ukraine and israel. but the majority of people who i saw when i was there in my travels, they have money. how come we are continuing to help nations that are already thriving or their people are thriving and our people here are struggling and suffering and then when i go to washington to see the different members,

everybody is partying. the house and senate members. i mean, when do the regular people get the chance? host: before you go, is there any foreign aid that you think is worthwhile? caller: i believe we should help anyone in need, but how come we are forgetting our own in need? that's all i'm saying. host: how often do you come to washington to see members of congress? caller: about twice a year. i go visit the supreme court for here some of the cases. host: do you do that for your job or out of your own interest? caller: my own interest. i love the members, they are doing a great job for what they need, but where is the accountability on the other end? i think members should be paid very well, actually. but on the other site it should be ok, we are going to reduce

poverty. we are going to make sure people are working. we are going to make sure people are struggling nationwide. -- charged struggling nationwide. host: thanks for the call. on the role of members on foreign aid. guest: getting back to what the public is saying either top issues, it is typically not foreign aid. ukraine, israel, these places are far away. you talk to people who actually have connections, the jewish community, the attack on israel is very personal. for palestinian-americans who have relatives, very personal. for ukraine, people who are concerned about security and instability, they will say that we are facing a situation that is potentially like world war ii, where they are worried that if putin is not contained in

ukraine, that he's not going to stop there. this could get quickly out of control. that remains to be seen. certainly the ukrainians have done more than what was expected, but a lot of that is because of the aid that we've given them. i understand that this is something that you don't see as often. it is easy to not watch the news particularly as it is horrific about counterstrike's and counteroffensive's. it is hard to turn away if you go downtown and you see a bunch of vacant storefronts and you see people who are on housed, and you're worried about crime and worried about just the price of your grocery bills. those are things that you face every day. balancing this and trying to address it is a real challenge.

some places are doing better than others. i don't see people trying to address all of it at once because in some ways, the argument is we are the world's last superpower. we have to contribute to the global stability but we also have to take care of people at home. right now i think that everything feels for voters and the public a little out of balance. host: the newspaper at capitol hill is roll call. the editor-in-chief is jason dick. always appreciate having you one. guest: great to be here. host: coming up in about a half-hour, discussion on the fentanyl crisis in this country. we are joined by the director of addiction and public policy at georgetown's o'nel institute. but until then, it is open for them. any public policy issue, any political issue that you want to

talk about, phone lines are here to do so. go ahead and start calling in and we will get to those calls right after the break. ♪ announcer: c-span's campaign 2020 four coverage continues with presidential primaries and caucuses. watch live on the c-span network as the first vote in the country are cast in the upcoming presidential election along with candidate speeches and results beginning with the iowa caucuses on january 15 and new hampshire primary on january 23. campaign 2024, on c-span. your unfiltered view of politics. if you ever miss any of c-span's coverage, you can find it anytime online at c-span.org, videos of key hearings, debates, and other events feature markers that guide you to interesting

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to washington anytime, anywhere. a healthy democracy doesn't just look like this. it looks like this. where americans can see democracy at work, where citizens are truly informed and the public thrives. get informed straight from the source on c-span. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. from the nation's capital to wherever you are. because the opinion that matters most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. announcer: washington journal continues. host: is open for them. any public policy issue, political issue that you want to talk about, this is the timely from the program over to you. democrats can call in at (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001.

independents, (202) 748-8002. coming up in just over an hour, you're going to be taking you through the senate judiciary committee. a hearing this morning on gun violence in the united states, policy of public health advocate testifying on that issue and what the federal government can do to curb gun deaths in this country. the hearing takes place 10:00 a.m. eastern here on c-span, c-span.org and the free c-span now radio at. and also tay, family and friends honoring former fit lady ruslan carter at tribute service being held on the campus of emory university. president biden and the first lady expected to attend alo with the former first lad melania trump, michelle obama, laura bush and hillary clion there will be remarks from friends of theormer first lady, friends also expect t offer remarks and the carter's grandson, jason carter.

you can watch live 1:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span.org and the c-span now video at. rosalynn carters final journey being highlighted today, this is a story from the washington post. carter was 96, being remembered with three days of tributes for her work. yesterday, a motorcade leaving the sumter medical center amid a morning chill. relatives gathered a short time later after all the modern where services were held and students and others gathered to thank her for her work. white flowers left by a statue of her there at the university, a statue of her sitting on a bench. some of the images from yesterday's service that took place. now it is open forms.

any public policy, any political issue that you want to talk about, phone lines are yours. democrat, up first. what is on your mind? >> hello, good morning. i'm calling about a couple of things. the first thing i'm calling about is marjorie taylor greene, and alejandro mayorkas. and also, i have a question that nobody has ever really asked. that donald trump, and what if he does become the representative mann he does lose the election? then what? host: what do you think? if he wins the nomination but loses the general election. caller: i don't know. nobody has really ever talked about that. because he already lost it once and we saw what happened. and what happens if he does get elected and he does lose?

host: this is joseph in atlanta, georgia, independent. >> on your mind -- >> on your mind -- what is on your mind? joseph, you with us? lucinda is in galveston, texas, independent. caller: good morning. how are you all doing? i was going to say that about your question about the american dream. it's really hard to have an american dream right now with all the inflation and the hypocrisy. 31 use old, not understanding how hard it is to be a young person in this day and age when they got everything handed to them. and they got so much intergenerational wealth from their parents. but you know why it is called

the american dream? they get you have to be asleep to believe it. i hope you have a lovely, lovely day, c-span. thank you so much. host: the first caller talking about former president trump and the 2024 election. the story from the washington times that front, if era court in rhode island on monday dismissed the latest case attending to keep the former president off the state ballot on january 6, 2021. it is the fourth court this month to deliver a setback to anti-from activists were trying to keep the gop presidential front runner off the ballot. political advocacy groups have appealed lower courts in colorado and michigan that would see mr. trump on the primary ballot next year. the minnesota supreme court also dismissed a case back on november 8 in order saying it couldn't prevent the party from putting mr. trump's name on the ballot. those were trying to keep them off the ballot asserted that the constitution's clause on insurrection prevent sam from

being reelected following the 2021 attack. mike is in virginia, independent, good morning. go ahead, mike. we will give you one more try. caller: you can't -- host: go ahead. caller: hello? host: i'm listening, go ahead. caller: yes, i was calling in reference to the congressional relationships with each other, and it comes down to relationships and finances. and i'm wondering if they could build two big housing areas, one in fairfax county, montgomery county. if congress free room and board and so forth and make them live with each other. one republican and one democrat per room or two in each room, whatever. then they have to force -- they

have to be with each other on a personal level. they mixed with each other. contentious relationship that they have with each other, i think would subside because they have to deal with each other on a personal level. and this could be paid for by taxes, they can't find it, they can't afford it. but i think we would get a better working congress if they had to deal with each other on a personal relationship. host: this is maril -- maryland, republican. caller: i just was enjoying the gentleman suggestion very much. i'm just making a comment. one comment is that when bills

go to the house of representatives or the senate, i do prefer one topic bills rather than omnibus bills. right now i do like to see money given to ukraine, that we defend ukraine, but that money needs to be tracked very carefully. and then the other is i would like to also continue funding aid to the nation of israel as it defends itself. but i would also like to see our united states leaders say hamass the perpetrator here. hamas is guilty of this whole situation. and, hamas should release all of the prisoners right now. i know that they are going to use them as trading tools, which will encourage them to take prisoners again when they again attack israel. which they have said that they

will do. therefore hamas needs to be destroyed. a war is a war. and when we look at what happened way back when in europe and japan at the end of world war ii, total devastation. and then we help them rebuild. ok, it is horrific what is happening in gaza. but, hamas is guilty of it all. so we have to get hamas conquered and then give money. and then have people on the ground so it does not yet frittered away. and we rebuild the country. and in my opinion that would be helpful. right now, i would like the united states representative to the united nations to stand up and say hamas is guilty, not israel. let us go forward with that. other than that, it would be my preference that president biden follow the example of president johnson and gracefully say i

choose not to run again. i would also like, although it will not happen, former president trump to say i also will not run again for the presidency. well, those are the wishes on my christmas list. that is all i have to say. host: if both of them were to not run, who would you like to see run and carry the mantle for each party, who would you like to be the democrat and republican nominee? caller: i do not know about the democrats because i have not heard them throw their hats into the ring. for the republicans, right now, if i had to vote right this minute, i would probably vote for desantis. but recently on c-span i heard former governor christie spoke about his visit to israel, and i

believe he was speaking to constituents in new hampshire. and i really was favorably impressed by former governor christie. and so, i still have a vote in the air. host: on florida governor ron desantis, he and gavin newsom will take their feud to fox news in a debate moderated by sean hannity. "the wall street journal" on their story. "the two scheduled to face off in a 90 minute debate in georgia. they are not running for the same job, this thursday event is more kin to an ultimate fighting championship. taking an interesting fight happening outside of the elections race and putting a spotlight on it." "wall street journal" noting that it is news -- that it is

owned by news corp. and fox share a similar owner. this is from alabama, independent. good morning. caller: maybe you can answer a question for me. it is illegal to go to a congressional hearing and lied to the congress. but why in the world should congress stand up there and lie and i am talking about both sides. and lie through their teeth about things just to pass an agenda. that is all i want to know. host: who was the last politician you trusted? caller: [laughter] i do not trust any of them. they are all -- they are all sold out. host: was there one back in the day that they trusted? caller: i do not really believe in the parties. but, he was not a very good president.

but, jimmy carter was an honest man. host: what did you think about when you heard about rosalynn carter's passing. caller: i thought it was celebrity worship, she is just a person to me. all of this her raw and stuff about -- hurrah and stuff about her passing, i am more worried about a service man than a celebrity. host: ingrid in pensacola, florida. democrat. good morning. caller: good morning and happy holidays to everyone. host: same to you. caller: i might be showing my age, but it seems to me that people these days do not seem to recall that it was not so long ago in their history under president reagan when interest rates were sky high.

i am talking about 12%. and jobs were very difficult to find. i was going through college at the time. and when i got out, it was very difficult. there were gas lines and they reelected him. and so why can't we just all get along? try to find -- peace in the world, we want peace with our neighbors. and the golden rule, do onto others as you would have them do unto you. i know it is the holidays, but it should be year-round that we treat others as we would like to be treated. and, just quit bashing biden.

he is not comparable to trump. anyhow, happy holidays. host: can i ask you before you go, in the first hour of our program, the question does is the american dream still exist today, that if you work hard you can get ahead, is that still possible you think, looking back on your years and where the country has come from and where it has gone? caller: well, as far as technology goes and medicine, there is great improvement. but, i do not know. i agree with the person that called in earlier about so much greed. they do not seem to care about other people, so i find myself saying more and more the good old days. so. host: when where the good old

days? caller: i would say the 1960's, 1970's, and 1980's. host: thank you. mark will -- michael from the tar heel state. independent. good morning. caller: yes. hello? host: go ahead. caller: i agree with the good old days. i was born in the 50's and of course, that was when divorce skyrocketed. in the 60's, i mean that it did. but there were better days and she is right, it is greed that is messing everything up. and then marilyn, what she said earlier. i am with you girls. i am in there. and it is a moral issue. legalism has overcome, we are a nation of laws.

and the laws are based to back up immoral actions that are greedy, shellfish and all of -- selfish and all of that. we have to keep making laws because nobody has moral fiber anymore. i agree with the last caller. host: when did we become more greedy and why? caller: way back in 1967, " newsweek" had a cover that said god is dead. you know anything about that? caller: i will look it up. caller: it was in "newsweek" or "time" and it said that god is dead. and then the sexual and freedom revolutions of burn your bras and all of that and whatever. god is dead, and that means that when god is dead in a nation,

every nation that has fallen in the past history of mankind has fallen from within, not necessarily outward adversaries. it has always fallen from a lack of some kind of moral fiber or strength. host: is this the cover you are talking about 1966 it asked the question is god dead? is that the one you are talking about? caller: yes. maybe i misquoted it. but the whole of it, you know, i am 73. yes, is god dead. there it is. we are having a revival right now. you have to separate the sheep from the goats, the good and the bad. and bad is -- we are going to get an attack on christmas eve

or new year's eve by hamas. they will catch us with our pants down just like they did with the evil people in israel. i spot -- i support israel. without christ, we are all done. host: michael in north carolina. this is frank in queens, new york. independent. caller: good morning, thank you for having me on. i would like to make the comment that i would really like to thank speak -- thanks c-span for opening my eyes and i hope you do not take it the wrong way. it is because of c-span that i stopped voting to go back to the previous guess that you had on. caller: can i ask -- host: can i ask why? it sounds like an interesting story. caller: and have been 12 years ago. i was hit by a car so i was laid up and had to stay in the house. i found c-span and got addicted to it.

but, it showed me the dysfunction and waste of time in both houses of government. and since then, i really do not have the hearts to vote for either party or anybody. and i feel like they waste so much time. a simple vote, it takes -- and you know with the electric device, sometimes it takes an hour. why is it the chamber is always like, i would say three quarters empty? how can you have meaningful debates and meaningful discussions about policies if people are not there? there should be rules that when the house is in session, everyone should be there, no exceptions.

host: what do you think it would take to get you to vote again? would you have to be inspired by somebody or see congress work better? what would it take? caller: i would have to see congress work better. i think rules would have to be changed. everybody should be in attendance. could you imagine having a board meeting or even just a meeting of the staff and only 10 people or two people showed up. and it was ok. it was thought of, nothing would ever change. i was a manager and i ran a couple of companies. when i had a meeting i wanted all of my people to discuss how to make things better. i mean, i understand that they go to committees and have committee meetings and the staffers are there, but it is not the same. when the house is in session,

everyone should be there and everyone should be seated. and be listening to the speeches. host: thank you. the house will be in session today at noon. legislative business at 2:00 p.m. and the senate is in at 10:00 a.m. eastern this morning. you can watch on c-span and c-span2. ed in ohio, republican. good morning. it is open for them. caller: i am more vacant per -- a conservative instead of rino. with the two parties you have to go conservative. the democrats, i can listen to them and talk to them but they do not debate nothing. if you do not agree with them 100% they get mad and they blame things on republicans. like i watch her show a lot and

i call once a month or so, i listen to the democrats like the one that just caught them, i love carter and etc.. reagan drove up inflation. reagan came in after carter. it was the worst in the history of this country with carter. he meant well but he was a buffoon. and then reagan came down with trickle down. it is factual. you had the booming economy and the strong america. and enemies respected us, foreign enemies. we straightened out a lot of nightmares. here we are again, they call and they are ill-informed. i do not care what age you are. i am 64 now. they -- this guy right now, president trump was president, this would be all over, the borders everything is disasters. right now it is another

travesty. they give no numbers or figures. what are they doing on that party? they bring the spokesman out and he will be the base for the next election. the democrats are doing early voting six months already and no signatures matching and no dates matter. the same thing. host: we will take your point. suzanne, south carolina. democrat. good morning. caller: good morning, i called in on the democratic line but i do not affiliate with any party, i sort of judge the person i am looking to vote for. what i am calling regarding is the salt tax on social security. two things, but that mainly. i have tried to do a lot of research on it and from what i can see that number, i think it

is 40,000 for a married couple on social security and if they make more than that they are paying taxes. i understand that decades ago when this was put into place that that was a lot of money and people lived on that. right now $40,000 for two people is almost just above poverty level. and i am confused as to why with inflation and everything else over the years that the numbers for the tax have not risen to accommodate what we all know, you know, and what we live as a part of. and mice -- my second issue is that i am concerned that because i am not a republican, democrat, it looks like they might do the best job for us, and my concern is i would not vote for trump or biden. and, right now the democrats are

not showing anyone that i think is vote worthy. and if i had to vote right now and i had a decision to make, i would vote for chris christie. host: suzanne in south carolina. our last caller in the open forum. about 45 minutes left and in this time a discussion on the fentanyl crisis. regina labelle will join us, the director of the public policy initiative at georgetown's o'neill institute. stick around for that. we will be right back. ♪ >> traveling over the holidays? make c-span's bookshelf podcast feed your playlist. it features all the nonfiction books in one place.

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>> washington journal continues. host: a focus on drug addiction and the fentanyl crisis in the country. regina labelle serves as the addiction in public policy director at the o'neill institute. this is the headline of a political story -- politico story that you were in, the opioid crisis has gotten worse. what does that look like in america today, what are the numbers? guest: the opioid overdose epidemic affects hundreds of thousands of people annually. however, it was about 108,000 people dying every year from overdoses. primarily driven by ely consent -- illegal fentanyl. it is an opioid illegal -- illegally manufactured and that is what is driving a lot of the

overdose deaths. host: why is it getting worse, why have we not been able to get a handle on it? its not like we have not known about it. guest: the supplier. the supply of drugs is a lot more lethal. we do have substance abuse disorder not being new. more people die actually from alcohol use disorder annually than illegal drugs. but, really this is not a problem that we got into overnight and it will not be solved overnight. we need to build out a whole prevention and treatment and recovery system that we do not currently have. that will take a while. host: we have mentioned that you serve as the addiction & public policy initiative director at the o'neill institute. you are the former acting director of the white house national drug control policy. what has the biden

administration been doing to build out the efforts and to combat the situation? host: eyes -- guest: i served on the transition team between administrations and we identified the top things needed to be done. i started on the afternoon of inauguration day and we put out the priority is in april. many of which were expanding for the first time in a century, harm reduction services. having more serve services. and having fentanyl test strips. a lot of people using opioids and thought they were using heroin were actually using fentanyl, illegal fentanyl. those test strips help them identify what was in the drug supply so they could either use safely or choose not to use. and we also have expanded, the administration expanded access to treatment by removing barriers to evidence-based

treatment and they are continuing doing a lot of that work. caller: talk about needle exchange -- host: talk about needle exchanges and test strips and callers were saying that is enabling addiction. what would you say to those people? guest: it is part of a continuum. we want to prevent it from happening. we need to treat substance abuse disorders that there are people not yet in treatment or perhaps they do not have a substance abuse disorder but they need access to services like harm reduction services. there is a lot of evidence behind syringe services program which reduces hiv and hep c. those are known and proven to work. they are a public health approach to a public health issue. host: on getting the funding behind some of these approaches. what is the support act? guest: it passed right before 2018. it was a 600 page document with

a lot of authorized programs, some of which got program -- got money through the appropriations act which expanded access and medicare benefits to methadone, one of the evidence-based treatments for opioid abuse disorder. it is currently before congress for reauthorization. it also reauthorized the office of national drug control policy in the biden -- where i served which is also up for reauthorization. congress is looking at that now and hopefully they past that. it has pieces that need to continue and be reauthorized. host: why is it not automatic? what is holding it up? guest: congress has had a lot of things on its plate and i am hoping that we can restore regular order and have hearings and go through the process so that these types of programs are not only authorized but also we

have an appropriations process that provides the funding for prevention treatment and recovery and harm reduction programs. host: how soon does it need to be passed before the programs do not have the funding that they need? guest: the continuing resolution has helped with some of that. there are a couple pieces, a couple of access to treatment pieces for juveniles in particular that need to be reauthorized today. host: regina labelle is our guest, the addiction & public policy initiative director at the o'neill institute with us until the end of the program at 10:00 a.m. eastern. that may get the phone lines, split a little bit differently. if you are in the eastern or central united states, 202-748-8000. the mountain or north pacific region, 202-748-8001. and if you have been impacted by

drug addiction, a special line for you, we want to hear you and your families' stories, 202-748-8002. go ahead and start calling in. for folks who are not familiar with the o'neill institute and the addiction & public policy initiative, what do you do? guest: two things. first we work at the intersection of public health and the law to advance evidence-based policies for a number of people. our areas are focused on substance abuse disorder. we work a lot with the americans with disabilities act to make sure that it provides protections to people with substance abuse disorder. and then also, i direct and teach in the master of science and addiction policy and practice program at georgetown university's graduate school. this is the first of its kind program in the country to train people so that they can hit the ground wanting -- running. it is a one-year program.

and they can provide evidence-based policies at the state, federal and local levels. this is our third year and we have people who are working across the government and in the private sector. and when they go -- it is not a time with over 100,000 deaths annually, there is no time for on-the-job training. these people go and they are prepared to implement evidence-based practices. host: what job do you foresee them taking on the state or federal level? guest: another is working for the state of new york. another is working in the state of maryland. and another works in treatment, recovery. so these are positions, policy analyst positions where they know what works and what doesn't, but they're also looking, keeping an ear out based on their training for what

might be around the corner, what the challenges that we might face and how to best address them. host: how long have you been working on this issue? guest: i've worked on it when i was the mayor's legal counsel in seattle, but really full-time since 20089 when i joined the obama -- since 2009 when i joined the obama administration. host: have we gotten since 2009 on any front? guest: yeah, i think we're not making strides as fast as we can, but i think there's a growing awareness that people with substance abuse disorder, stigma and shame don't cure people. and locking people up doesn't make people better. that we need to have, you know, evidence and science, but also compassion toward people with substance abuse disorder and address it as a condition that we know that it is, that it is a condition that can be prevent, treated, and from which people can recover. host: when did we make that

change on stigma? when was that recognition that this isn't helping solve the problem? guest: i think there's always been an undercurrent of people who recognize the importance of reducing stigma, but when i was in the obama administration, michael was our director of the office. he was the first drug czar who was in recovery from an alcohol use disorder, and he really -- he was on "60 minutes," he really personified for a lot of people what the challenges they faced as people with substance use disorder. we changed the language of addiction. the last year of the obama administration, they're terms that just add to the stigma and don't help anyone. so that change has slowly started to occur, and i really think it's speeding up with more and more people coming forward and saying, i am in recovery from addiction, recovery is possible. host: as the place to go to to make changes on this issue, why

did you leave the office of national drug control policy? guest: i was there for a year. that was my -- you know, i was acting director. the really great thing about this biden administration has put in an m.d., a doctor for the first time as director of that office. so our drug czar is someone who comes from a public health background, who understands and treats addiction. so he's perfectly situated to address the issue nationally. host: and what are those treatments that we are discovering that we're trying to get more into the pipeline? guest: for opioid use disorder, there are three f.d.a.-approved medications. there's two with the most research, science-based that reduce overdose deaths and help people enter recovery. for alcohol use disorder, trexone is a medication that is available. it's not as often used, but it is available to treat alcohol

use disorder. we also have cognitive behavioral therapy, continued management. so, you know, we have treatments that work. we just haven't made them as available to people, and we need to continue to remove the barriers. so anyone who wants treatment can get it. host: let me pause there, bring in some callers, especially folks on the line impacted by drug addiction. eugene, oregon, good morning. you're on with regina labelle. are you with us? caller: yes, i am. host: go ahead. caller: go ahead what? there's no answers to the problem. we dealt with drug addiction on a daily basis. there's no treatment facilities down here that someone can walk into. there's no program. they're pretty much homeless. you don't go in and seek treatment here in our hospital

in eugene, oregon, and you'll be chucked out right back on the street. how are you supposed to get well when you're homeless? most of the drug addicts here are homeless. there's nowhere for them to go. there's no treatment. guest: yeah, so thank you for that. oregon obviously is facing a crisis like every other state in this country. a couple of things that she said that are really important. emergency departments, hospitals in this country, traditional way to treat addiction, unlike other conditions, has been what's called treating and streeting. so basically stabilizing the person and sending them out on their way. at the o'neill institute, we actually put together a model piece of legislation for states that provides for care, connecting people to care in hospitals, in the emergency room, so they're not just being

treated and streeted. so emergency department can be an avenue to connect people to the services that they need, and so that's one piece that's really important. host: how long do you keep them in the hospital after that treatment aspect? it's not like you have the capacity to continue to keep these people in the hospital. guest: right, you stabilize them. you can provide methadone or morphine, either in the emergency department or you refer them to a service. but it's connecting people to care. that's what people are doing. there are states around the country, rhode island is a good example. there are states around the country that are addressing that, that connection to care, so the emergency departments don't become basically the housing stablization place. and there is a nexus between homelessness and overdoses, as well as substance use disorder. the homeless issue is one that is a much broader issue

determining social determinants of health, making sure we have adequate housing, recovery housing, and recovery support are also part of that solution. but again, we to build the infrastructure, and it's going to take a while. host: for those who have been impacted by drug addiction, this is steve from maryland. good morning. caller: yes, i looked at drug addiction, my son was addicted and is still addicted from a heroin. he's overdosed 10 times or more and i've had to bring him back with narcon, pump his chest, ambulances and the works. i look at this as i look at the immigration issue in this country. i see that it creates great jobs for those that like to support this. i look at it as a jobs program for the federal, state, and local government, which is why i don't think there's going to be a reason to ever solve this problem. it creates way too many jobs for

people all across the country to think behalf they're going to do to solve the problem. the problem is, once these programs run out with medicaid and medicare and such, they're right back out on the streets, he's been in a year program, year and a half programs, here and there, gets the job, does the work, and then ends up always going back and turning back to the drugs. so as a parent, that was back years ago. i just booted my son out and said you're going to have to figure this out on your own, if these are the choices to make in your life. in the end, drug addiction is a choice. it is a choice, choice, choice. and that's up to the individual to make that choice to say, you know, this lifestyle just is no good. living in the street is no good. doing these programs for a short period of time and thinking you're going to get better, as soon as that medicare card runs

out, as soon as that runs out, guess what, you're kicked back out on the street. even when he completed the program with flying colors, boom, always ends up going back to the drugs. this is the same way as immigration, it is a great jobs program. we're not going to stop defending all. they're not going to stop the immigration because it creates jobs across america. you guys have a nice day. host: regina? caller: thanks, steve, and my sympathies for what you have gone through and what your family has gone through. there are two things i want to point to. first, the importance of naloxon. it's a life-saving drug that can reverse overdoses. it's now, there's one version that's available over the counter. the cost is still too high, but in places like washington, d.c. and other cities, you can get it either delivered to you or you can access it through syringe services programs.

secondly, for parents who are struggling with a child with addiction, a partnership for drug addiction, the partnership to end addiction has a lot of resources for parents. to figure out how to get treatment, to figure out what kind of services their child might need. i work with people every day who have recovered from substance use disorder, from addiction, so i know that recovery is possible, and it's within reach, there are 20 million people in this country who are in recovery, who celebrate their recovery every day. so i know that that's possible. but my heart really goes out to a lot of parents, like steve, who really suffer from their family's illness. host: we're not going to stop the fentanyl. i wonder if you can comment on this headline from the associated press, china's agreement expected to slow the flow of fentanyl into the united states, but not solve the overdose problem.

what's the agreement that china has come to? guest: china has agreed to basically monitor, i mean, do a couple of things, but one is to monitor the flow of precursor chemicals that are going from china. china has the largest chemical industry in the world. so they've promised and opening up the door to monitoring the precursor chemicals that are going from china to mexico. host: precursor chemicals? guest: the chemicals that go into making illicit fentanyl. the drugs of today and tomorrow are not going to be crop-based. they will be synthetic, which means the chemical industry and chemists will become a lot more significant players in the drug trafficking world than farmers. but the really important piece about the fentanyl issue is that these are, you know, international trafficking organizations, and it's not just, they don't just traffic in

drugs. they traffic in a lot of other products. so that's where, you know, enforcing the rule of law, illicit finance, all of that is also part of a plan that the biden administration has put forward to address the issue. host: come back to test strips and how they're used when it comes to fentanyl. guest: sure, so if you -- syringe services programs in many cases will hand them out. people can use it to test whether or not the drug that they have contains illicitly manufactured fentanyl, if it contained illegal fentanyl. and then the person will have more knowledge about whether or not that drug, if they've never used it before, might kill them. that was really significant about four years ago. now i think everyone who is getting their hands on a street drug, if it's supposedly heroin,

it's usually fentanyl. it's still significant for purchases a pill, they might want to know what's in it. we have to assume today that if you're buying that you think is heroin or a counterfeit pressed pill, it probably has fentanyl in it. host: jonestown, pennsylvania, good morning, you're on with regina labelle. caller: everything i hear right now seems to be more of a band-aid than a long-term solution. we're talking test strips, injection sites. that's actually not solving the problem to bring addiction down. the biggest issue we have to figure out is why is addiction increasing in our country. my thoughts are, number one, we do a terrible job of mental health in our country. we don't teach people how to deal with stress in their life.

we teach a good job of education. the second thing is family structure. i think if we break this down a little bit more and look at family structure and the breakdown of the family in this country, you would see that i guarantee the majority of these are coming from broken families that are dealing with addiction and just not being able to cope correct well that. i would love to hear your comments about those situations. guest: thanks. i think the prevention piece is really important, and unidentified mental health conditions in this country and the lack of mental health treatment is very important. that's something we have to address, particularly for young people who are seeking out counterfeit xanax. that means that they have a mental health issue that they need to get addressed. i do think that the entire continuum of care, so preventing youth substance use is obviously important, and identifying risky

substance use that might indicate a broader problem, a bigger problem, and all of those social determinants have helped. lifting people from poverty, making sure that adverse childhood experiences are addressed, trauma, all of those things go into addiction and substance use disorder. but i would say with over 40 million people in this country who have some type of substance use disorder, it's not a partnerral fault in those cases -- it's not a partnerral fault in those cases. addiction affects every family. it affects intact families, people who come from divorced families. but focusing on prevention is very important as well. host: on addiction and youth substance use, this is a nbc news story from earlier this month. it cites that nationally the

median monthly deaths among 10 to 19 doubled second half of 2021, according to the c.d.c. and media monthly deaths involving illegally made fentanyl nearly tripled. most of the adolescent the did not have a history of opioid use, meaning addiction wasn't the culprit here. guest: yeah, so there's some gaps in our knowledge here. but we do know that there was an increase in overdose deaths among adolescents, and a shocking increase as you said. most people were going online buying what they thought was a counterfeit, what turned out to be counterfeit pressed fentanyl. host: thinking it's what? guest: they thought they were getting xanax or something else. again, it goes back to what christopher was talking about with untreated mental health, and also, you know, the

availability on social media of some of these drugs, press the pills, counterfeit pressed pills in particular, yes, those are people who might, young people who are not, who don't have a long history of substance use, but are getting them online, and so we have to look at data to see if any of the things that have been put into place are helping to address that issue. host: in about 15 minutes this morning, we're going to talk about another issue here on c-span. it's a hearing on gun violence in the united states. that's where we're going to go going after this program. it's happening before the judiciary committee. stick around for that discussion. but if you want to talk drug addiction, the fentanyl crisis in this country with regina labelle, our guest this morning, the phone lines are as follows. if you're in the eastern or central united states, it's 202-748-8000. if you're in the mountain or pacific region, it's 202-748-8001. if you have experience, if your

family has experience with drug addiction, 202-748-8002. john has been impacted by drug addiction, kansas city, missouri. john, thanks for waiting. caller: thank you for taking my call. this is my first time calling in 25 years. i listen to you every morning to get my news. the purpose of my call, i was addicted over 25 years, and i've been clean and sober for 25 years. my choice of opioid was crack. and i would like to point out how this drug crisis is being handled as opposed to what was done in the late 1980's and 1970's with crack. i remember bush bush bush sitting at the white house with a big back of crack cocaine, and that was basically the beginning of the war on crack. now, don't get me wrong. i was addicted. crack devastated our communities. i mean, devastated.

and the heavy-handed police presence that was put in communities sent a lot of people to prison for small amounts. now i see fentanyl coming through, and it's coming through the red states, rural communities. in my hand, you're having the same issues that i had back in those days, where it is devastating the communities. it's devastating your families. what my problem is how each was handled. there is no narcan of people addicted to crack and going through the crack epidemic. there was none of this, you got programs and other. our program was a jail cell and drug court pretty much. so i have empathy and sympathy for people in the red states that are going through this epidemic. but one thing that you must

understand, nobody forced nothing in my mouth. nobody forced nothing in my vein. it was myself, my personal responsibility that got me in and got me out of it. it's not fentanyl at the border. it's in your home. one thing is this. people who are on addiction to get that drug if they want it that bad. it's not a policy thing. it's not a government thing. it's a personal thing. so i like what you're saying. i like how you're bringing this up. i just wish that and hope this goes into all communities. don't sit there and say, oh, look at that black community, oh, they got the drugs or any other brown community. i'm watching families be destroyed, just like mine were

in my community. host: thanks for sharing your story and hope you call in down the road. going to let regina jump in. guest: first of all, congratulations on your 25 years in recovery. it's people speaking up and talking about their stories that's really important. but i do want to emphasize the importance of what john said. our policies have changed over time, and the policies that were in place during the crack cocaine epidemic were jail first, prison first. and we've seen that how it's acommunities. i was looking at washington, d.c. data, overdose data this year, for the last year. d.c. has one of the highest rates of overdose deaths in the country. they are primarily deaths occurring among black men who are 50 to 60 years old, west of the anacostia river in the fifth, seventh and eighth wards. host: for folks who don't live in d.c., explain what that means. guest: it's basically the

eastern part of the city, which is primarily black men who are dying. so this is an issue, it did start out primarily in red state appalachia. it has expanded over time to affect every community. that doesn't at all dismiss the truth of what john said. we changed our policies quite a bit. we're much more empathetic, much more acknowledging of this as a disease today than we were in the 1980's. host: john said our program was the jail, our program was the drug court. are there still drug courts today? guest: yeah, there are about 2,500 drug courts nationwide. they started in miami. they've been around since the 1980's. for some people, they work to help them enter recovery, sustain their recovery. the one thing that we work quite a bit on in jails and prisons is

to get people who are incars nature, evidence-based treatment, that they don't have to go in and be forced off of medication or withdrawal from medications and not get treatment. and then the highest, one of the highest rate of overdose, risk for overdose, is incarceration. so getting people the treatment they need in jails and prisons is critically important, and there's legislation on capitol hill that would expand access to treatment. host: and that's outside the support act? guest: it's outside the support act. i mean, it could be inside the support act, but it's outside. host: do you know the name that have? guest: it is the reentry act. host: john is next, good morning. you with us? caller: yeah, good morning. i appreciate this conversation. i think the last caller said a lot of good things. my name is john, and i'm 10 years clean. my drug of choice was heroin.

i think that this fentanyl that's going around right now is, i don't know. like, i used to think that, you know, drugs are bad, right? but the fact that any time you choose to get high, you could possibly die is pretty crazy. and yeah, that's pretty much my only comment. guest: thanks, john, and congratulations on your years of recovery. and again, when people talk about their recovery, it shows that recovery is possible. and that's something i obviously really want to emphasize. we know that our supply is dangerous. and because of these synthetic chemicals that are going into drugs that are becoming more and more powerful, that's why harm reduction services are so important to keep people alive, so that they can, you know,

reduce their use or enter treatment in they need it. -- if they need it. but reduce overdose deaths is one goal, but also help people live fulfilling, healthy lives after entering treatment and recovery is important as well. host: how much time do you spend the idea of going after the drug traffickers and maybe not even going after them in the united states, but going after them in mexico, in places where these drugs are coming across the boredder? guest: sure, so i think certainly when i was in the administration, i spent more time than i do currently on that. however, i think looking at this issue, these are tans national criminal organizations. and if we focus solely on the border, it's too late. these are criminal entities and looking at illicit finance, going after the source of their funding, those are all pieces of the puzzle that are really important as well.

host: this is a call from virginia, good morning. caller: yes, thanks for taking my call. i'm familiar with drug treatment, because i had two dear friends who are actually clean, and they were clean from a salvation army, which is probably one of the best in the d.m.v. area for those recovering from drugs and alcohol. they have a very stringent program, and i suggest anyone to go there. second, narcan. we have to realize that we do have a drug problem in this country. we distribute the covid test. why don't we distribute the narcan nasal spray throughout? everybody should have it at their residence. they need to distribute those, you know, at bars, at schools. and then the schools should talk about this. i mean, i remember going to school. i went to school in d.c., actually grew up there, so i'm familiar with the drug issue. but we have police officers come

in and talk to us about drugs. that was in junior high school, at p.t.a. meetings. so it is a crisis. we need to do something about it. the solution is having centers like the salvation army throughout the united states. number two, distribute narcan nasal spray to everyone. you know, bars, schools, hospitals, every resident should have narcan nasal spray. we have one. we don't have anybody that used it, but we have it just in case. so that needs to be distribute. we can do that. host: thanks for the call from virginia. guest: thanks. narcan is the brand name, and it's one type of naloxon. it's a life-saving drug. it prevents and can reverse overdose deaths. in washington, d.c. and other areas of the country, you can get it over the counter by going to your local pharmacy and your

drugstore. and you can now buy it, it's $45. you can buy one of the types of naloxon. you walk into your drugstore. in some cases it's behind the counter. it should be in front of the counter. so if you have $45, you can do that. you can buy it. no questions asked. there are naloxon distribution programs in every state in this country, and i totally agree that every family should have this available in their home. host: before we get too close to the end of our program, let me mention, the national help line, th's 1 is-800-662-4357. plaiwhat the help line is designed to do. guest: sure, samsa isn agcy within the department of health and human services. you can call that number or go online, and you talk to them or you look for the type of treatment that you might need or

a loved one might need. you can look to see what type of services they have. it's a finder. it's a treatment locator so you can have your questions answered if you call about the type of treatment that's available in your area. again, in an area like d.c., you havereatment availability. if you're in more rural areas, you have to rely on telehealth, and the good thing is currently you can get treatment via telehealth. host: i should note, in washington, d.c., samhsa is the substance abuse and mental health services administration. samhsa.gov is where viewers can go. time for one or two more calls as this hearing on gun violence in the senate judiciary committee is going to get underway pretty soon. let's go to mark in south carolina as we're waiting. good morning. caller: good morning. i just want to share that i had

been in recovery for over 30 years now. and i'm now licensed as a professional counselor in three states. recently, they passed the legislation regarding l.p.c.'s able to see medicare, particularly medicare resilients. that was a barrier for a long time, and i just want you to comment on that a little bit if you don't mind. guest: thanks. mark, congratulations on your recovery and forgiving back and serving your community by being a licensed professional counselor, which is what a l.p.c. is. one of the big issues we have, we don't have the type of trained workforce that we need. so most people go to primary care physician, that individual may not have ever received any training in addiction. so making sure that people have access to trained counselors like a