journal." your calls and comments live. then retired navy seal and foer hostage negotiator dan o'shea on lkbetween israel and hamas andhe return of hostages. we wildiscuss congressional news of theay, including debates over u.s. aid to israel and ukraine and bder security, with wiley nickel. buddy carter and norma torres. and a congressional reporter for the messenger talks on the latest effort to expel new york republican congressman george santos from congress. "washington journal" is next. ♪ host: the "washington journal" for november 20 nine. some democrats have called on leadership to ensure any new military aid israel includes

conditions such as gaining insurances that a plan be developed to reduce civilian casualties and ensure that israel make sure he met a terry in a reach of civilians in gaza. this may come to a head as the senate is expected to work on president biden's supplemental aid package, including new funding for israel. when it comes to more aid to more aid israel, some conditions -- should conditions be attached? (202) 748-8000 if you say it should. (202) 748-8001 if you say it should not. perhaps you are not sure. you can tell us why at (202) 748-8002. you can also text us your thoughts at (202) 748-8003. post on facebook and on x. lead story in the new york times takes a look at this back-and-forth going on among democrats when it comes to more aid to israel. this writes, democrats in congress are clashing with each

other and the biden administration over a push from the left that would attach conditions to an emergency infusion of security aid for israel during its war with hamas , the latest reflection of a growing rift within the party over support for the jewish state. the debate is a to part your from long-standing practice on capitol hill, where for decades lawmakers have approved military funding for israel with few strings attached. the disagreements among democrats simmers behind closed doors. at the white house, the national security advisor -- democratic senators have raised concerns over how israel might use assistance on the battlefield. several democrats argued to colleagues that any aid package should increase humanitarian assistance to gaza and ensure that israel do more to avoid civilian casualties. this was brought to the forefront in a recent op-ed from bernie sanders, independent

senator. he wrote, tnk check approach when it comes to aid must end. the united states must make clear that w we -- while we are friends of israel, there are conditions to that friendship actions that violateplicit in sense of decency. and our own this includeannd to the indiscriminate palming, pause the bombi so humanitarian assistance can come to the region. the right of displaced gazans to return to their homes and an end toettler violence in the west bank and a commitment to the peace talks for a two state solution. again, that is senator sanders. when it comes to future eight israel, if there should be any conditions attached to that. if you say there should be conditions and want to tell us why, (202) 748-8000.

if you say no conditions should be in place, (202) 748-8001. you can always tell us if you are not sure. (202) 748-8002. text us at (202) 748-8003. it was on capitol hill yesterday that the senate minority leader, mitch mcconnell, was asked about this back-and-forth going on when it comes to future eight to israel and if conditions should be placed on it and that should take place. here is the response from the minority leader. >> democrats are debating whether to place conditions on the funding. what is the argument -- one of the arguments in favor his congress does this for nearly every other country that it gives military assistance to. what is your response? >> i think it is ridiculous. our relationship with israel is the closest national security relationship we have with any country and a condition on our assistance israel on their

meeting our standards seems to me unnecessary. this is a democracy, a great ally of ours, and i do not think we need to condition the support that hopefully we will give to israel soon. host: the story from the new york times goes on to say that the biden administration, although initially unequivocal in its support of israel efforts to route hamas from gaza has recently urged israel to be more surgical in strikes. last week, mr. biden told reporters the idea of conditions to aid to israel was a worthwhile thought. some leading congressional democrats argue the biden administration has done enough to ensure that israel conducts operations in a way that spares civilian suffering. that is some of the story taking place on capitol hill. the senate expected to take up president biden's supplemental

package next week, which includes money for israel. we will ask you if you think conditions should be attached to that. yes, no, or not sure is how we have divided the line. (202) 748-8000 if you say conditions should be attached. (202) 748-8001 if you say it should not. if you are not sure, (202) 748-8002. you can always text us at (202) 748-8003. some of you already responding on our facebook feed when it comes to the idea of conditions, saying, they fund ukraine to protect world democracy. also from -- saying the ai should not be going to terrorists, only given after all americans and israeli hostages are released at once. also from facebook, michelle irwin saying we should not be funding this -- we should be funding this would definitely put restrictions on it.

netanyahu is a war criminal not interested in a two state solution. then also from ajay richardson on facebook, we should not be giving money to anyone. we cannot even take care of our own people. again, facebook is one way to post your thoughts. you can send us a text. let's hear from larry in washington, d.c. on the idea of conditions for aid. you are on. caller: i believe u.s. textiles should not country -- u.s. tax dollars should not be contributing to wholesale slaughter of civilians. israel has every right to defend itself against aggressors. but palestine did not aggress upon them. they were victims of them.

we should not be addressing vengeance. vengeance is the lord's. so says he. host: that is larry in washington on our yes line. from california, this is mcgough. -- miguel. you are on. caller: ok. host: you're on the air. go ahead, please. caller: [indiscernible] host: you're going to have to turn down your television. we are getting interference and cannot hear. when it comes to aged israel and conditions, you say no conditions should be placed. why? host: that is my gal in california. let's hear from another congressional democrats asked about the idea of attaching aid,

senator chris murphy giving reasons for those conditions. he made these comments sunday. let's hear a portion from him. >> i believe the level of civilian harm inside gaza has been unacceptable and unsustainable. there is a moral cost to this many civilians often losing their life but also a strategic cost. hamas will get stronger, not weaker, if all of the civilian deaths allows them to recruit more effectively inside gaza. we regularly condition our aid to allies based on compliance with u.s. law and international law. it is consistent with ways we have dispensed aid especially during wartime to allies for us to talk about being sure the aid

we give ukraine is used in accordance with human rights laws. that is conversation we will all be engaged in. >> president biden said he thinks it is an ok idea. he also worried it could hinder diplomatic efforts to condition the aid. you will have to deal with this. this is something that will be on your plate to vote on soon. >> this will be a conversation we will have when we return. i am not sure what will be controversial about aid we give any country being used in compliance with international law. i do think israel needs to be more careful in the way that it conducts these operations. you can defeat hamas without this level of civilian casualty, so that is an appropriate

discussion for us to have, in part because i do not know that it serves israel's strategic aims in the long run if hamas is given this kind of bulletin board recruiting material. host: that is senator chris murphy. mike freeman writes, it is late, but the proper course years ago would have been to improve social and economic conditions in gaza and turn over a new leaf, no military aid. many of us knew that. also, if there's good to be a two state solution, the u.s. has to use his mility d financial iluce to make a good-faith effort to negotiate with the palestinians. it was an editorial in the wall street journal yesterday that you can still find online where the editors make this case about u.s. aid to israel and possibility of cdions. the editors writing, use aged

israel isacred saying -- sact. peacetime aid fosters unhealthy dependence, but the push for the left hhing to do with aid. the purpose is to warn israel it would risk using u support - losing u.s. support if it compis mission of toppling hamas and that they cannot destros terrorists keep abilities. our guess is he american -- is that americans reject that view. they'll be a message worsening to israel's enemies. why not help israel by putting democrats to the task? that is from a wall street editorial yesterday. you can find online when it comes to the idea of conditions. let's hear from robert in cincinnati. >> good morning. i feel the united states has taken the wrong approach given

-- giving israel unconditional aid. they should be straddling the fence on this particular incident and they cannot allow israel to continue this -- just throwing dumb bombs into a populated area that has women and kids. host: what do you think putting conditions on future aid would do to change that? caller: there will not be any -- i do not know what israel would have to do to continue to get aid from the united states. we are one of their allies, and we should not be just giving aid to an ally that is going out

here and possibly could put us into a war. this thing can lead into a water war if israel continues bombing people, innocent people. host: robert in ohio. we have decided the lines when it comes to making those conditions on future aid. this is from doris in florida. hello. caller: hello. i do think they should put conditions on the money to israel as well as ukraine because -- to make sure they all fall under humanitarian laws that we have and not just go in and just bomb the innocent people as well. host: ok. that is doris in florida.

on our yes line, donna in arlington, ohio. calling on our no line this morning. caller: hello. i do not feel that we should support bernie sanders' ideas. host: when it comes to specifically aged israel, why are you against conditions -- aid to israel, why are you a does -- against conditions? caller: because they are our partners. israel is a nation that we have always agreed with and i have confidence enough in the leadership in israel, that they know what to do with the money being given. we should support them wholeheartedly. and do not turn your back on israel. this is something that our god

from our father in heaven, will not approve of. host: in ohio, let's hear from andrew. in michigan, you are next. caller: there should not be any future aid to israel. there is no condition when you're not doing it. it is because it is not a democracy but why is it such a close ally of ours? to say it is democracy -- i think there is something more sinister at play. there are objectives, economic objectives that collide between wanting to control the resources and strategic shipping lanes in the middle east and there is another thing were israel has spyware technology, surveillance

software that they sell to companies and share with our intelligence agencies, so i would like to know, is that why so many politicians are just onboard with israel no matter what atrocity they commit? what is really going on? we knew jeffrey epstein was a mossad operation. host: that is andrew in michigan. on our facebook page, similar thoughts to the caller. end all foreign aid, he writes. martin from facebook saying, israel is the only country that the united states should be supportive of. then chad rose saying, no foreign aid unless the u.s. is debt-free. then he adds that problem would be solved if that were to occur. facebook.com/c-span if you want to post your thoughts there. if you want to post your thoughts on x, you can do that

at @cspanwj when it comes to conditions on further aid to israel. angela on our no line. hello. you are on. caller: i do not think we should put conditions on israel. people over there are starving. there are children over there. their parents aren't with them. they need food. they need medical supplies. they need everything. i don't think we should put any conditions on them. host: some conditions would include direct humanitarian aid or making sure it gets there and limiting how fighting is done to limit civilian casualties. are those worthwhile efforts? caller: i think they should be more careful where they are firing. too many civilians are getting

killed. host: but you do not think withholding money and making sure that happens is a good thing? caller: i don't think we should give the money. i think we should give them aid as in food, gas, water, medical supplies. i do not think we should give them money. host: angela there in south carolina. axios this morning has a story about the weapons provided by the united states to israel over the years, saying that the u.s. credit israel was over 70,000 weapons, including aircraft, ground vehicles, missiles, and bombs via military aid between 1950 and 2022, according to analysis from the international peace research institute. it says that israel is the largest recipient of u.s. foreign military financing, with

most aid coming in the forms of weapons grants. it is a safe assumption that u.s. weapons are being used extensively in the current israeli operations in gaza, and arms transfer expert said, adding that the u.s. has provided israel with at least 16 types of weapons in 2023, including missiles and aircraft. the exact numbers and types of weapons have not been made public. you can find that on axios if you're interested in reading more. you can direct it to the larger topic of aid to israel and of conditions should be placed. jeff in new york on our yes line. caller: i called in on the program. you had the guest on the eve of the president visiting prime minister netanyahu. i asked, is there any leverage

the president can pull to prevent the humanitarian disaster that is going to occur before it occurs? he is there. that was the time to exert our pressure. we could have provided defense of aid to thwart another attack the way they did on october 7, but we knew that there was going to be disproportionate civilian casualties and now we find ourselves in the same situation at the end of this pause. again, we are on the precipice of another round of humanitarian horror. we had people in the south on the verge of losing more lives from disease than they are from the actual bombing if we do not do something about that. we have hundreds of thousands of people left in gaza city about to be attacked again.

as prime minister netanyahu said he is going to do a certain -- as soon as deposits over it. we have to let israel know they are not quite get the kind of a they want from us unless they do abide by the necessary humanitarian measures that we lay down. host: let's hear from pam in florida. caller: have you got me? host: you're on. caller: i say we should have no conditions on aged israel. -- aid to israel. israel is facing an existential threat. all this about "from the river to the sea" means there is no more israel. they have got to obliterate hamas. hamas is the one who is responsible for all these civilian casualties. if they had not attacked israel, this would not be happening.

so if they would like to return all the prisoners, turn themselves in, all this would end. finally, there are many wealthy arab countries in that area who could certainly help the palestinians. i think they should. maybe they do not put quite so much money toward liv golf but this idea that the poor palestinians at all this, no. israel has a right to survive. host: that is pam in florida giving us her thoughts. when it comes to the latest news out of israel, nbc reporting the truce between israel and hamas soon to end but talks will extend to allow for the release of more hostages and prisoners. new violations of the cease fire have been reported in northern gaza. aiden has continued -- aid has continued to flow into the strip but the commander terrien situation remains dire and

officials warned -- humanitarian situation remains dire. the u.s. says it has urged israel against military assault on southern gaza unless it has a clear plan to limit civilian suffering. president joe biden is sticking to his belief that the close embrace of israel gives him greater influence with its leaders and the public. that is what is going on currently. on the larger issue of aid to israel and if conditions should be attached, some opinions over the last few minutes. roberto in texas, you are next up. go ahead. >> i want to make comments but also want to criticize c-span. you have a major defect concerning this conflict. my comment. atrocities have been committed by both sides of the war. the israeli government headed by a criminal and hamas.

people on both sides should not be suffering. rather than compare numbers, innocent people on both sides. here is my criticism. host: before that route, as far as -- what do the conditions do? what is the value of conditions on future aid? caller: thank you. more more -- no more weapons to israel. humanitarian aid to israel, absolutely. humanitarian aid to palestinian people, absolutely. israel has too much control. that is obvious. congress and the president are 100% for israel. that is wrong. israel is a country. that is it. the criticism on c-span, pedro, you're supposed to be a

journalist, not a receptionist taking calls. here's the criticism. i am christian. by the way, i will say one more thing. never again jewish holocaust. also never again palestinian holocaust. host: wrap it up. caller: why don't you tell people saying is in the bible -- that is no reason for it to exist. israel exists because the u.n. created israel. the u.n. could withdraw recognition of israel and say it is no longer a country. host: that is roberto calling in. let's hear from rob in virginia. go ahead. caller: i am giggling a little from that last guy. i have no idea. i do not think anybody knows actually what is going on. i love listening to c-span in the morning because it gives me

satisfaction of hearing what people think. it is amazing how people will just repeat talking points that they hear on the news when none of us have any idea what is going on. host: so no conviction as far as if conditions should be put on aid? caller: i do not know. i really do not know. i am a guy living in the united states driving in traffic trying to pay my bills. how can i have an opinion about something that i know so little about? it is easy for us as americans to get distracted and obsessed with problems that we really do not know anything about. it is a pattern of hours. the same thing is happening with people getting in fights over who can use what bathroom, over abortion. no one really knows what they are talking about.

host: this is representative mike garcia from california talking about the issue, saying there is a dangerous idea around d.c. that u.s. aid should be conditioned. israel does not need senators telling them how fht. he needs america to give them freedom of action to win this war. that is what the legislature -- legislator said. (202) 748-8000 if you say yes to conditions. (202) 748-8001 if you say no. if you are not sure, (202) 748-8002. frank in florida on our no line. caller: good morning. i do not think they should put conditions on israel. they have never put conditions on ukraine, but nobody asked

questions about what hamas thought would happen if they attacked israel. israel was attacked for obviously no reason because most of the time they are giving aid to gaza to begin with. now they say here's a country that fought years ago a six-day war and then they had to have known if they attacked israel israel will come after them like a firestorm, but now everybody wants to moralize it. you cannot moralize war. so help israel as much as they can. help palestinian recognize, give up the ship. apologize. give back the hostages. and let's move on with life. host: this is from larry in new jersey. caller: we have to recognize israel has been using its aid

responsibly. the eight the united states is going to israel includes defensive weapons like the iron dome, used to defend israel's population is missiles coming from hamas which are aimed to destroy israel's population. they are fired at israel towns and cities. those rockets -- there have been more than 5000 others rockets costing at least $50,000. to destroy those incoming rockets from hamas. so that is the the united states supplies israel and it is necessary to defend israel's civilian population. the iron dome which israel developed in cooperation with funding received from the united states is now being used to protect united states forces around the world and israel is

developing an antimissile system which will be used to defend the united states against ballistic missiles which can be fired from iran with nuclear weapons. so the united states is working with israel in a mutually beneficial relationship which aids both countries. as far as the bombing in gaza, there is a big lie being spread by bernie sanders, chris murphy, and other democrats. what they are saying is that israel is violating laws of war. not true. if israel is filing the laws of war, there would be a lot more than 12,000 civilians. host: larry in new jersey. let's hear from the white house strategic communication coordinator monday during a press conference that he was asked about the idea of

potential conditioning of aid. here's part of the exchange. [video clip] >> the president called it a worthwhile thought. is he considering conditioning aid or not? >> what he also said after acknowledging that as a worthwhile thought was the approach he has chosen to take so far has produced results and outcomes, many of them i just walked you through. so the approach we are taking with israel and our partners in the region is working my getting aid into people that need it going getting a pause in the fighting and hostages out and americans out. we continue to urge and will continue to urge the israelis as they conduct military operations to do so with care for civilian life. >> democrats say we need to condition aid going forward. what would you say? >> he would say what he said yesterday, that it is a worthwhile thought but the approach i'm taking now is

working, the approach that we are taking now is working and getting results. >> when the white house does hold a press conference quite you can find it on our website. you can follow along on our app. let's hear from lou in illinois on our not sure line. >> i would say the aid should be dependent upon verifiable peace plans offered by hamas. if there is peace in the future, then we can make a better decision. right now, the prospect of more war is on the table. hamas has been known to run onto buses with firebombs and kill everybody on the bus. we cannot tolerate that. so let them offer a peace plan

and let it be decided. then we can decide upon aid. host: there is lou in illinois. they not sure line, (202) 748-8002. we will hear next from kevin in north carolina. caller: good morning. i think we should watch our funding. in the beginning when there was not food and water, humanitarian type laws, so we have to watch stuff like that and not allow them to do it even though it is already a law. america -- i look at it. our biggest money seems to be war and going to other places and blowing them up. i do not know if i would trust us. we have a president and we

cannot control our own land. host: it is defense news that takes a look at some of the aid packages that could be debated next week, saying seven democrats have gone through the process of placing conditions on the military aid package during the caucus meeting tuesday. the discussion marked another possible legislative stall. house speaker mike johnson indicated he is open to a separate ukraine aid bill but republicans are asking for policy changes at the southern border before passing the request. mr. biden proposed a new israel aid condition on a request but called the idea a worthwhile thought friday. again, the senate expected to work on that request. speaker johnson expected to decide today for discussions about that and other issues. according to punch bowl news. from new york, we will hear from

deborah. caller: good morning. i would like to know how anybody that can see the photos coming out of gaza could believe we should give any aid to netanyahu. he is a war crime criminalist. there is no reason for us not to be humanitarian and understand that both sides need to live peacefully. there should be no war. there should be no war anywhere. to aid -- for the united states and biden to aid in this is inhumane. thank you. host: roland in maryland on our not sure line. caller: sometimes, we do not know what is going on. not sure because i do not know why we keep finding israel.

i am not any religion. go back to this -- if america were a documentary on palestinians and israel, it is like goliath and david. if they want peace -- if we all want peace, we should spend money -- see how much america spent on israel. how come we cannot tell the palestinians -- all this bombing . netanyahu is happy that hamas is there. that is the situation. so i do not know why. i do not understand. we all know what is going on. host: from jimmy in maine.

caller: israel's victim card expired in year four when a person died likely of poison. host: what does that relate to matters of today? caller: israel cannot go back to status quo. we should not help them go back to status quo. so. host: let's hear from another democratic senator on capitol hill yesterday, virginia senator tim kaine talking about the idea of conditioned a. here's some of the conversation. >> do you think the senate package will have conditions on aid to israel? >> to conditions language is a red herring. we do not do budget bills and just do blank checks. if i was doing a budget bill for

the department of education, it would clarify how money was to be used, so i think you will see in a package for israel that will be robust but will try to accomplish numerous goals, defend against a mosque might provide humanitarian aid, and minimize civilian suffering. >> are you confident israel has followed the laws of war? >> i am concerned about inadequate delivery of humanitarian aid to southern gaza. i have raise that in letters to the president and others. there is a border crossing into southern israel that i think needs to be open if there is going to be significant food and water into southern gaza. i think that needs to happen, so we are pushing and the president is too to reduce violence against palestinians on the west bank, increase humanitarian aid to civilians, and do what we can do to minimize suffering.

people who live in gaza are under the thumb of hamas, not the same as hamas. we need to make sure we are protecting civilians the best we can. host: in lincoln, nebraska, this is sage. caller: thank you for having me. it is a little confusing that we are having a debate on national tv on whether we have conditions on the money we are sending out. this is not a practice we usually partake in. i do not know of any other country organization that was sent out money unilaterally to. the situation it has put us in by doing that is that we have inflamed the arab world, taken sides against people who are being oppressed, and are cheering and on from across the ocean.

this fascination with the idea -- first, it is not just americans that should be placing conditions because the israelis demonstrated week after week for a year leading to judicial reforms they were unable to place conditions on what they were doing, so a large percentage of the population in israel once conditions on what is going on. host: legislators including democratic senators are having this debate. caller: i think it is odd we are in a position in the first place where we are having a debate on whether we are going to continue to partake in a war. at least in ukraine not only are they being attacked but we are giving penance to take out our oldest geopolitical phone but in israel there is no benefit and

the cost to us -- the arab world is, rightfully so, upset at what they are seeing. people my age are pretty upset too. but he likes to see dead kids -- nobody likes to see dead kids. host: on our no line. caller: my name is abdul. my question is, why are we supporting israel and in yahoo!, war crime criminals? children die, almost 6000 women died, and where is the justice here? >> you are calling in saying no conditions should be placed. is that your assertion? caller: we should not support israel for what they are doing.

host: let me stop you there because i believe you called on the wrong line peerless go to alan in brooklyn on our not sure line. caller: first, i associate myself with the remarks from the gentleman from nebraska. we generally do not give any money away without conditions. the question now is what kind of conditions should be imposed on all recipients of u.s. domestic and foreign aid. i support israel's right to defend itself. i'm concerned about the particulars of the way the war started. it might have been prompted by unwise policies and poor military moves. also, the carbon cost of this and all wars. i think the conditions should be placed on our grant of military aid to all parts of the world subject to the necessity to wage wars on minimizing the carbon

cost of war, including of weaponry being fired, of buildings that took carbon energy to build being destroyed. we have to have that as part of our discussion of all policy, domestic and foreign, military and peaceful. unless we include the carbon cost of our activities and our financial grants, we are never going to achieve sustainable green world. that is a topic we should be having now during cop 28. the hosts of this conference are using as an opportunity to sell oil. host: let's go to john on res line -- our yes line. caller: i am clergy. what i'm going to say is not my words. i'm going to quote a few words in a few short verses from the bible. the bible says that -- hello? host: go ahead.

how does it relate to aid to israel? caller: it includes israel and explains everything about israel and it is not my words. it is scripture. book of john chapter one says jesus comes to his own and received him not. if you read further, he said whoever believes in his name, he gave them power to become the sons of god. host: let me stop you there and ask you specifically how that relates to aid to israel. caller: israel should have aid. the muslims should have aid. let me quote a few scriptures. host: you have already done that and we are running out of time but tell me how it relates. caller: because we are all brothers and sisters. that is what jesus said. he took one blood and made all mankind. if you read galatians, it tells you who is the seed of abraham.

host: rich is in new jersey. caller: israel takes every precaution of not killing civilians. ukraine got a billion dollars to -- how can i say this? to bite russia. there are no strings attached and they are confirmed corrupt country. israel gives sources to us to help defend ourselves. also, hamas, palestine, gaza has gotten over a billion dollars from the united states in the past years, are -- up to october 7. host: if conditions include how the war is fought and how civilians are treated, why not include those in condition eight on that?

-- aid on that? caller: you're fighting a war. israel does everything possible to avoid killing civilians and numbers that hamas is giving out , there are thousands of hamas people that got killed. it is not all women and children. i want c-span to put up the money we gave gaza or palestine, which everyone to call it, show it on the screen that the united states has given them for humanitarian needs. host: that is rich in new jersey finishing off this round of calls. thanks for participating. a little bit of a change of format as far as timing is concerned. our next guest will continue talking about events when it comes to and hamas to my particularly when it comes to hostages and the negotiation process and how they are treated afterwards. commander dan o'shea, former navy seal an expert when it comes to the hostage negotiation processes, joined us next when "washington journal" continues.

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he served from 2004 to 2006. thanks for giving us your time this morning. can we start -- tell us about your experiences in baghdad when it comes to the issue of hostage negotiation and parallel that to things you are seeing about what is going on between israel and hamas on the same front. >> i arrived in july of 2004 after the kidnapping and beheading the ended up hearing -- airing on al jazeera. my first day on the job, i showed up. i was in interagency liaison. my first morning meeting with the ambassador and his staff, there was the topic of truck drivers that had been kidnapped. because bulgaria was in the coalition in supporting u.s. and the mission to get rid of saddam hussein, i was in iraq earlier

for the invasion and we came back trying to build a stable democracy. bulgaria -- two bulgarian truck drivers were kidnapped. because bulgaria was in the coalition, president bush called to the president of bulgaria and said, we will do everything we can to save the lives of these hostages. he said cut two my boys are flying into baghdad. we will tell them everything the u.s. is doing. the chief -- state department chief of staff look to the only military guy in the room and said, you are a navy seal. no call your friends. that is how i got tagged with the kidnapping stink in the military cut when you get handed that project. that one kidnapping ended up evolving into the next two years of my life and about 448 international kidnappings over that time, which basically i got

a phd in islamic terrorism and why kidnapping is such an effective tool for them. i have been studying what i call hostage terrorism for almost 40 years. we went into iraq looking for weapons of mass destruction that we never found. but the real weapon was hostagetaking. al qaeda and other groups use that to great advantage, spreading terror and using propaganda. what we are seeing today by hamas is virtually the same, just the next level. we have never seen anything to this scale and scope with the exception of the school crisis when a school was taken over by a number of terrorists. now we are seeing this on the world stage. the weapon of mass effect is hostagetaking and terrorist organizations and rogue regimes like north korea and russia,

this is how they negotiate with the west. they grab someone from ideally the united states, as we are seeing, and it is a continuation on it. people need to understand hamas has been at this can happen game for a long time. when the marines went in for the second time, they found one of the hostages -- hostage holding sites where hostages had been killed and found a kidnapping manual from hamas. the title on this document that read like a field manual for the army, the title stated, no need to hunt for lions when there are plenty of sheep to be had. the hamas grabbing grandparents, grandchildren, 85-year-old men and women, 10-month-old babies, this was in their strategy from the get go. look what we have now, the whole

hostage crisis has brought a cease fire about and it is why they did it. host: how would you then characterize the exchange is taking place over the last few days? guest: reality is this negotiated settlement that has been ongoing in gaza through multiple parties but not israel and hamas directly across the table, they are both sworn to wipe each other out. this is all done through third-party mediators, nongovernment organizations like the red cross and diplomats and all sides have put pressure on hamas and israel and you can be sure the idf do not want to the cease fire because they want momentum. which is why hamas grabbed these hostages. they are there only bargaining

chip in this process in the war, that and public opinion. the cease fire has gone better than expected cut to be honest, because it is such a fragile situation. the fact that we are going in speaks to the fact the getting these hostages out is critical for israel and the palestinians want to get prisoners back that have been held in israeli jails. it is a marriage of convenience by two parties that are bitterly at odds, but it is doing better than i expected. host: we will ask you if you have questions for our guest concerning the exchanges and related matters. (202) 748-8000 if -- for democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans and independents. (202) 748-8002 for active and former military who want to get -- perspective on that. (202) 748-8003, you can use that

number to also text us as well. are there rules of the road when it comes to hostage negotiation and are those being played out as you see what is going on currently? guest: we focused on hostage rescue. the hostage group had three parties. prevent future kidnappings and bring those response will to justice. we did get involved in some backdoor negotiations, but our focus was hostage rescue. at the time, u.s. policy was we will not negotiate with terrorists. that has never been u.s. policy even though that was the presumed policy. our policy was we do not make concessions terrorism. when terrorist groups grab someone, they knew they could not go face-to-face to try to negotiate a settlement for that hostage. it did happen, but it was the exception to the rule. today, you have president biden

talking about the cia going to negotiate this. blinken has made multiple trips. it has raised the stakes of the game, which is why hamas wrapped american hostages and why they are holding onto them my because -- there are 40 odd countries represented in the nationalities and those diplomats have been making trips to try to get their people out but the guy carrying the big stick is president biden. by making public statements about his direct role in this, he has raised the price of admission to get these hostages out, at least the american side. it is a dangerous tight rope that we are seeing because only one american to my knowledge, a young child, whose parents were murdered on october 7, she just was released but she was the only american to date. there are no rules of how this plays. every hostage negotiation is different. both sides.

it is a back and forth. we have seen the original start of the cease fire got extended and pushed back because of an airstrike going on, so this is -- both sides want certain demands and are having to make concessions. there is no one blueprint for hostage negotiation. every situation is different. what is going on in gaza and backdoor channels in egypt and ohio -- doha half, -- doha, there has been nothing like it in previous history. host: you talked about the president making statements as far as negotiation. qatar is involved in this. why have they served a prominent role? host: this is not the first time -- guest: this is not the first time they have become the switzerland for the middle east.

not our debt only are they banking for the middle east, they are off-limits. we have known that for years. money is coming out and financing terrorism around the world. you never hear about terrorist incidents in qatar or the gulf states. qatar is taking a lead role not only with al jazeera, started over 20 years ago, but they have been doing this negotiation and have a strong relationship with the u.s.. they were central to get a release for five senior taliban and al qaeda leaders. this is not new territory for qatar. we know they are also good at protecting hamas leaders. many of them are billionaires living in qatar, so that is why

qatar was a natural for this. they have a track record and history of accomplishing behind the scenes international settlements on hostage release. host: again, dan o'shea here for this conversation. you can call the line and send your thoughts. let's start with charles in florida. you are on with dan o'shea. caller: caller: i am a palestinian american and i am pro a two state solution. i was in jerusalem when they signed a two state solution. i saw the arabs going into the israelis going into the arab sections in the arabs going to the israeli sections. everything was fine until an israeli killed bein.everyone was happy in israel and they went back to taking settlements and taking land. i was there when the palestinian

kids were shot for throwing rocks. basically, they have 10,000 palestinian hostages in prison, half of them we know have no trial. the mothers were not there at the trials when the children were being arrested. some of the kids have been there seven or eight years. desperate people do desperate things. we need a two state solution. palestine used to have its own country where it can go and have passports like other human beings. they are human beings. they are the loveliest people i've met and i have a lot of israeli friends that are super nice people. host: charles in florida. his point is the larger issue as far as land and things like that. we find ourselves in situations like this. guest: he is making good point. there is certainly once men --

one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. the palestinians have a grievance in the issue is a lot of detainees held without trial. i agree, is two state solution would be great but there have been four or five historic efforts to do that two state solution and in every instance, the palestinian leadership from yasser arafat to others, they walked away from that. i wish we could get to the two state solution but the eye for an ongoing relationship between hamas -- i should say palestine and israel, continues this cycle of violence. i am no diplomat to do that kind of negotiation, but there is not one side to this story. he made a good case about where the palestinians are sitting. host: this is a viewer in

nebraska, independent line, hello. caller: hi, good morning and thank you for having this discussion. now that hostages have been released, we have a cease-fire and things are going as well as we should have hope for but what happens next? what happens with the hostages, what is going on? what kind of plans are we talking about? thank you. guest: great question and that's on the minds of many people. obviously, they are trying to extend the cease-fire and today's the last day. there is going to be continued pressure on netanyahu to extend this cease-fire. i believe they will conduct phase two of the offensive. i think they have to go into the south in the south is where we can presume most of the hostages have been taken and hamas has

reconstituted itself to rearm and get ready for the next phase of this. i think there will be a resumption of the offensive but this first cease-fire was successful and it has created a blueprint for the future and i believe we will see a series of offense of -- offensive cease-fires. hamas has these hostages. that's the only chip they had to keep them alive so this will drag out because hamas has given up a lot of hostages in the first stage of this but they were the easy ones, women and children. the next phase is military males . everyone in israel serves in the ief and it will get harder and harder and even innocence not connected to the fight, they will be a top bargaining chip so we are a long way from this crisis from being over, unfortunately. host: why is it harder among

those two groups of people? guest: because they are the most valuable hostages to hamas. once the americans are released, president biden and his administration will put statements after the real pressure is on biden like netanyahu because american citizens are still being held. once the americans are released, the pressure will not be on biden and you'll see this drop off the headlines of nonstop coverage and that's why i'm very critical of how the administration has made such a prominent accounting of the rule because it has only raise the cost of getting the americans home. host: put more value on them and negate additionally get -- and it makes more difficult to get them back. guest: in the past, presidents wouldn't talk about american hostages. that really upset a lot of families. i've lectured around the country

and met families that had loved ones taken hostage. the biggest complaint was the fact that no one cared. we never heard from the government, we never heard from the administration. the president abandoned my husband or daughter or son. why that was the plan is that when a president talks about a hostage, he raises the cost to bring that hostage home. the goal is to raise the value of the hostage in the eyes of the hostage taker, there humanitarian status as a woman or a child or noncombatant versus raising their value, monetary value in their eyes. we have violated that in this case. it's hard in this age of 24, there is a reason to keep these negotiations in the shadows and the clandestine world. less is better than all this discussion in our news coverage. host: dan osha a joining us for

this conversation. -- dan o'shea joining us for this conversation. caller: i want to make a point about qatar and how the middle east has settled for an attitude of terrorism which is accepted in the sense that qatar is aiding and abetting hamas. if i aided and abetted a criminal in my home, i am guilty of a crime. then negotiate for that criminal in my home? no. qatar is committing a crime by aiding and abetting. we are pacifying them. it might be for the hostages but qatar is guilty of this. that's what has become the middle east, the norm that terrorism is ok. it's not. we should hold qatar liable for what they are doing. they should get these guys from

hamas, either throw them out or get them. they are the leaders of a terrorist organization. they are not part of a political system in the middle east. they are terrorists. host: mr. o'shea? guest: there is no question that terrorist financing is part of the middle east and qatar as part of that. it's not a blackened world and i understand the man's position. -- it's not a black and white world. these countries fund terrorism around the world. it's spread all over and off the coast of somalia and its spread to all of africa. there is a report that terrorism on the continent of africa is funded by kidnappings of foreigners, in particular the europeans that made it well-known publicly that they were paying multi-million-dollar ransoms. everyone is involved in the

terrorism game. come -- the countries that finance the terrorism are paying hostages. all the countries were paying multi-million-dollar ransoms. yes, qatar's involvement so are other countries. the american government gave $6 billion to iraq and they said it's going to humanitarian aid. if you've got 6 billion to spend on you minutes eight, what will they spend it on? this is being driven by tehran. tehran is fighting us through proxy which includes hamas and hezbollah. no one is innocent in this game of supporting terrorism, to be honest. i understand where the man is coming from but it's not a black and white subject and it's not as clean as you would like. host: this is rose in our again, independent line.

-- in our again - oregon. caller: the united states is indirectly responsible for the situation we are currently in. we have given billions from its inception to israel, unrestricted. there is no excuse for this. the israelis have used this and have persecuted the palestinians. knowing that they are being financed. they are using our financing. they are geniuses at defending themselves and constantly complaining that you cannot hold them accountable without being anti-semitic. they are masters at manipulation and it needs to stop and we need to stop giving them anything.

this would be beneficial to world peace. host: you can respond to her, spit you may have heard over the last few days, some democrats on capitol hill are wondering if conditions on future aid to israel should be continued. guest: she brings up the same argument about qatar financing terrorism. i'm not disputing the u.s. gives the lion share of aid, economic and military to israel but it's for their survival. the reality is, israel is surrounded on all sides by arab nations in muslim nations that have tried to wipe them out since 1948 and even before that. you can go back to the holocaust. the reality is simply this -- if hamas and the palestinians, if they put their weapons down, that would end this. if israel put their weapons

down, they would be wiped off the face of the earth and that's the reality that's why the u.s. is in such strong support of israel because they are the only jewish state in the world they have a right to defend themselves which is why they are going into gaza today because of what happened on october 7. host: there is a viewer that draws historical comparisons when it comes to hostage negotiations. guest: i go back to the 1979 situation at the embassy where for 444 days, there were hostages held by the iranian regime. president carter tried to launch a hostage rescue mission and it failed and it cost him his presidency. reagan came in with making statements of we don't negotiate with terrorists and that was the

perception. that we don't negotiate with terrorists. making statements at the same time while colonel oliver north was involved in the iran-contra. they were trading arms for hostages between iran and iraq war. no one is immune from criticism. i am an equal opportunity harsh critic on either administration because they all played a role in getting us to where we are today. if we are talking about precedents -- iran-contra was important because it involved the very players that iran-contra was dealing with were involved in the kidnapping are the same people today. 50-60 westerners, mostly diplomats and some journalists and a religious envoy trying to negotiate hostages were all grabbed and held, some as long as seven years. it was hamas, islamic jihad and

hezbollah that were involved in this. it was a repeat of the same actors. their sons and grandsons were involved. no president has been immune from this scourge and no president has always made the right decision in this challenge dealing with hostage terrorism. host: talking about hostage negotiation and what he sees when it comes to hamas. you can call and tend us -- and send us a text at (202) 748-8003 . let's hear from robin in new york. caller: thank you for your service. i have two quick questions. in terms of the hostages right now being held, how many different factions are actually holding the hostages? near the beginning i heard that the fbi hostage rescue team was

mobilized. can you discuss that as well? guest: we note hamas and islamic jihad and there are other groups and some of them are unknown. in iraq, we've dealt with groups that al qaeda was obviously involved in kidnapping but we at one point had 80 odd different groups involved in the hostages. criminal and terrorist organizations are connected. some neighborhoods in gaza and their own gangs probably have hostages we don't know exactly the number and a not privy to the intelligence of who is holding the hostages but it's more than just a mosque and more than islamic jihad. it could be five or six or 10. there is still 170 odd hostages being held. that means 170 odd different locations where these hostages could be held in separate locations.

it's unknown the numbers. with regard to hostage rescue, hrt from the eight -- from the fbi, they are involved in the advising on this for sure. they are for u.s. to mr. response. they're not going to be doing and overseas hostage rescue mission. that would fall within the u.s. special operations command and joint special operations command specifically. we can presume they are in the region and on standby. again, a hostage rescue would be very challenging in gaza for 1000 reasons. that option is always on the table but right now, getting error hostages home is through the cease fire process we've seen over the last five or six days. host: christina in michigan, you are next for our guest, go ahead. caller: thank you so much for taking my call. i'm a little nervous so bear with me. you mentioned the holocaust.

i know all about the holocaust. i visited auschwitz in the 1970's. the palestinians and the arabs did not do the holocaust. the jewish people were supposed to be rewarded for the crimes committed against them but committing atrocities toward the palestinians doesn't make sense either. why in 1948 was only the israeli state? why wasn't the two state solution made then and who controlled that? and what's happening on the west bank? that's occupied territory. the palestinians i think are being pushed back that we just don't call it killing them off. i'm so confused. i do resent when you cannot

criticize the israeli government without being called an anti-semite. i am not an anti-semite. i just don't understand why something that was created in 1948, all these years later, is a bigger mess than it was back then. guest: i appreciate the call. i recommend you do some more research. there was a two state solution in 1948. there was a division in that region between the jewish settlers and the arabs as well. as soon as it was announced, they came under attack. all the gains of israel's property has come about because they been attacked by their arab neighbors including the palestinians. there have been multiple attempts at a two state solution. israel has always been willing to sign that and it's always

been rejected on the palestinian side. i suggest you do more homework and look at that. i don't dispute that the palestinians have a positive demand for a state of their own, but the west bank and gaza have not been occupied for years. i know gaza since 2005 and israel is not in the west bank presently. obviously, that has changed with what happened on october 7. i recommend you do some more history and get a better understanding of the challenges on both sides of the question you asked. host: 3:00 this afternoon, there will be a hearing before the house foreign affairs subcommittee that will feature families of hostages held by hamas, giving their testimony and talking to legislators about it. you can see that heang on c-span3 and see it also on c-span now and our website at c-span.org. i know that every country probably takes a different approach but for those who are released, what are the best practices for care after their

release? guest: that process is called repatriation. it's bringing someone home to their country. it's a long process and sometimes a lifetime and it's obviously a medical check first. everyone coming out of gaza has been taken to an israeli hospital. get a complete medical checkup. it's the mental aspect of this especially for young children. they are potentially looking at a lifetime of counseling and a lifetime of trauma including ptsd for probably all these hostages, frankly, especially considering some of the details coming out. the reality is they were held in a tunneling system without daylight probably for the vast majority of the time and probably limited food and they could probably hear bomb strikes so it was literally a 50 day absolute nightmare for these people and sadly for the

hostages still there, the nightmare continues. it will likely continue for a lifetime of mental counseling for most of these people taken on october 7. host: robert is next in north carolina. caller: good morning, pedro and good morning commander o'shea. i joined the military in 1979. this it was before the hostage situation in iraq -- in iran, rather. i understand exactly what you are saying because i see the axis of evil there. russia, china and iran have formed an axis of evil, if you will. we are not going to have president george bush who said previously -- we were not going to have a big war with armies

going against one another. everything is going to be in the shadows. the increase of terrorism and grabbing hostages. for americans, i think we are a prime commodity going around these countries. if they snatch us, they know they will make a big political statement. americans should think about where they go before they go to these various places in the world because i think we take our western ideas and overlay them on other countries and think they are just like us. they are not. we are a prime commodity. we have to be careful on our movements and in terms of the israeli-hamas war, i understand what israel wants. they were attacked.

war is terrible. it's horrible. for those of us that served in the military, those that do continue to serve in the military, we know what will happen when you call us out or their are war atrocities. host: thank you. guest: first off, i appreciate your service. you hit a lot of points and i concur with your position on everything you said. war is an ugly business. it is part of reality and you are right, there are proxies right now. we are trying to avoid the escalation of this conflict. there are players involved. the hostage crisis in gaza is just a microcosm of the bigger picture you alluded to. yes, there is iranian involvement, there is russian involvement. russian hostage was let go, one of the first males released

because they are trying to take care of that. there are backdoor channels going on very strategically and yes, we are trying to prevent this thing from escalating. the situation could unravel beyond what's happening in gaza to a wider region. we have to be very careful of that because the last thing america wants is to get sucked back into the middle east after 20 years of our experience in iraq and afghanistan. i did over 10 deployments to both and i'm retired now but i don't want to see the next generation of our brothers and sisters in uniform to go back to a place that's a never ending cycle. great question. host: tobias in new jersey, democrats line, your next up area caller: yes, thank you for taking my call. i just wanted to comment on the commandos who are starting to

mobilize -- who are hostages in israel. those taken by hamas were taken under extreme circumstances. not everyone tends to acknowledge that those taken " prisoners" by israel are taken under an apartheid state. these are extreme circumstances, too. we would agree that anyone taken as a prisoner back in apartheid south africa, that wouldn't have been justified or correct. it's the same thing occurring now and they are still currently taking prisoners as we try to negotiate these things. i want to understand what the end goal is. this is just a continuing cycle of taking more hostages, taking other hostages and then negotiating and further desperation.

thank you. guest: you summarized why we are here today. you summarized why in my opinion, i'm not a diplomat and i study history about the two state rule but the very scenario you've laid out, an overwhelming majority of the world has turned against israel for making the argument you just said about the prisoners being held in israeli jails. i'm not involved in that side of it. it's not my expertise and i will not comment on it but that's the cycle of violence that continues and why october 7 has now happened tenfold onto the residents of gaza and it will be another generation -- they will never forget which is why this ongoing conflict in the region has gone backward since 1948. thank you for the call. host: i know the cease-fire may

be expected to end today but when it comes to the nature of hostage exchange, what would you want to see that would give you some confidence and may be a better path forward? what will give you pause as far as the exchange of hostages itself? guest: again, it's going to be challenging but one of the demands negotiated was that the red cross was going to be able to visit the remaining hostages and get accountability. i hope that happens. i am fearful for everyone being held but i know not all the children have been released. there are still many elderly men and women. those people are without their medications and food and whatnot. the key is that these hostages survived until the next cease fire. i want to hopefully see there is an international concern on that side of this.

that remains to be seen we don't know how long and if the cease-fire will get extended again or the idf offensive resumes again tomorrow. host: what happens if more americans are not released in the next few days? what does it mean for the united states? caller: guest: that this is going to be involved for the coming weeks and months ahead. this problem is not going away anytime soon. host: dan o shea is a former navy seal. he's joining us to give us perspective on what's been going on between israel and hamas. thank you for your time this morning. guest: my pleasure, thank you. host: here's the plan for the remainder of the show. for the next 1.5 hours, you can participate in open forum and we will have several visits from members of congress and other things as well. if you want to participate in open forum and talk about things

happening international and in congress as well, (202) 748-8000 democrats, (202) 748-8001 republicans, and (202) 748-8002 independents. you can start calling now and we will take those calls "washington journal "washington journal as: continues. >> book tv every sunday on c-span2 features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books live at noon eastern. the uc berkeley law professor john yoo joined book tv's in depth to talk and take calls on the supreme court, executive brchuthority and more. at 10 p.m. eastern on afterwords, the stanford university professor shares her book about theife and career of the nobel prize-winning economist. she is interviewed by the cato

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that guide you to interesting and newsworthy highlights. these points of interest markers appear in the right side of your screen when you hit play on select videos. it makes it easy to quickly get an idea of what was debated and decided in washington. scroll through and spend a few minutes on points of interest. >> "washington journal" continues. host: it's open forum on till 10:00 a.m. you can comment on issues when it comes to a matter of international politics or congressional politics. democrats (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001 and independents (202) 748-8003. we will have short visits by members of congress and talk about issues on capitol hill. we start with representative wiley nickel from north carolina in the dirt -- in the 13th district. good morning. guest: it's great to be with

you. host: thanks for giving us your time, we appreciate it. it was the house speaker saying in recent days that when it comes to future aid to israel and ukraine and the like, he expects that will pass in the house. how confident are you at in that happening? guest: i am very confident because there is a large majority of democrats and republicans want to make sure we do everything to support israel and support ukraine, taiwan. those of the things we are talking about with this supplemental package. i think we need to be clear that vladimir putin and hamas are enemies of democracy. they want to destroy democracy and we have to stand together with our fellow democracies around the world to make sure they know we are with them and they have the resources they need militarily and humanitarian. host: when it comes to that

package, one of the conditions they want to put on that is improving and effort on border security. is that a deal breaker in your mind when it comes the overall package? guest: we want to see what's in the proposal. i support robust border security. i think it's a good thing we are talking about. we need to score our southern border and make sure we have all the resources we need their. host: one of the other things on the senate side but it may come up in the house as well when it comes to future aid to israel, conditions on that as far as israel's response and how they conduct things -- is that a conversation with having? guest: i think that's a bad idea. israel has been invaded by hamas right now. they killed 1200 israelis. we have hundreds more who are

held hostage right now. what we need to do is support israel and that's military assistance, humanitarian assistance. the palestinians who are suffering, we shouldn't be cutting could just be putting conditions on this. on the republican side as well, i was incredibly disappointed in republican leadership for attaching an effort to defund the police for billionaires by cutting billions of dollars from irs enforcement of wealthy tax cheats. those things should not be coupled. israel needs our help right now and we need to stand with israel and move these bills along as quickly as possible. host: 16 legislative days before the first tier of funding runs out for the government because of the previous deal cut before thanksgiving. what is your confidence level that some type of resolve will be found? guest: i've been disappointed with the lack of action in this

congress. we essentially accomplished almost nothing in terms of bills that made it through the house and senate and signed by the president. so far, we've done two temporary funding bills and raise the debt ceiling and that's about it. i'm hopeful that republicans will finally start to realize that democrats control the senate and we have joe biden in the white house and we should work together to pass bipartisan legislation. the majority of republicans in the house by thinker on the same page there, but we've got some of the far right extremist in the house or essentially have the tailwagging the dog and we need to get to a place in congress where we can moving a of house republican support. if we do that, we will get a budget. people on the far left on the far right need to be involved in

this but the people in the middle want a fair deal. host: how concerned are you about another shutdown down at this point? guest: we will keep the lights on for christmas and new year's and we have temporary funding through january. that's a good thing. what we need to do is agree on the top line. we did that back when we raise the debt ceiling. most members of congress agree on this. we had a good amount of cuts but it was a topline spending agreement that the far left didn't like in the far right didn't like the vast majority of members of congress works of of a fair deal. that's what we are going to have to get to with a divided government area

i think they will see the writing is on the wall. you're not going to have these massive cuts that they propose in the house. we have to compromise. that's the job and it's what we need to do and i'm hopeful that before the next government funding deadline that we will agree on these things and move forward with the budget. host: you've introduced legislation that others have tried before as far as if there is no budget, there is no members of congress. what is different about what you are proposing and was the likelihood it will go anywhere? guest: we continue to push on that. for anybody watching, if the federal government shuts down, no one gets paid except one group of people, members of congress still continue to get the paycheck. that's wrong. the no budget no pay act would change that but it would set a

deadline. it's not just if you don't pass a budget, you don't get paid. if you don't pass it topline beginning of the year and a budget by the middle of the year, you will not get paid. we've seen in other places where that's happened and it works. it's the motivation we need and we if we are not doing our job, we shouldn't get paid. we don't need to manufacture these crises with the debt ceiling and funding the federal government. whether you are democrat or republican, you should agree we are going to pay her bills and we will fund the government. those are the basics. we shouldn't be having these arguments. i welcome the conversations about cutting the deficit and the debt. those are good conversations to have. if we do it in a balanced way, there is a majority of folks in congress who will support those efforts. host: one of the things that congress has to deal with is the future of new york representative george santos.

where are u.s. far as expulsion is concerned? guest: i voted to expel george santos before and i'm sure i will do it again. i don't say it lightly, i'm a former criminal defense lawyer and i believe in due process but the facts are overwhelming against george santos. he has betrayed the trust of the people who sent him to washington and just about any other industry in the country, he would have been sent home a long time ago. i think that will likely happen this week and i will continue to support expulsion for george santos. host: you were elected in 2022. there is a possibility the future of north carolina's election maps could turn your district into a republican district. if that happens, what's your future in congress? guest: the republican legislature passed an extreme partisan gerrymandering3

.this matter will be in front of the courts until the courts make a ruling on these maps, we will not take any decisions. the maps change every two years in north carolina. we will wait for the courts to step in before we sign that. but the republican legislature passed maps that are incredibly, a huge extreme partisan gerrymander. that's wrong for the american people and i got to congress because we had a different court that drew a 50-50 fair map. we are a purple state the prior court drew a map that was not fair. seven republicans and six democrats and one seat that could go either way and we won that seat. voters had a real choice. with extreme partisan gerrymandering in north carolina , if these maps hold, you will

have essentially republicans gaining three or four seats immediately just with the stroke of a pen and that's wrong. it doesn't allow for competition at the ballot box and most importantly, it leaves very few people with any motive or incentive to work across the aisle. that's really the problem in washington. there are people who are not willing to work across the aisle and get things done. we've got to end partisan gerrymandering. host: he serves the 13th district in north carolina, happy holidays to you. guest: have a great christmas and happy holidays. host: that's one of several members that will join us throughout the course of the morning. we will hear from you as well in this open forum. democrats line, go ahead. caller: hi, thank you having me on. i want to talk with congressman nichols because i am in the 13th district of north carolina. i want to say that i am a

supporter, i am a democrat, but i have contacted you numerous times. i know you can hear me but i have written you two letters and i took it to your office. i would like to have an office call with you, sir. my other comment is about the palestinians. we are all old enough to remember a little of the history for ourselves. i hear a lot of people making comments that we are looking at facebook or whatever and getting information but that's not true. we actually understand what happened to the palestinians and lu -- and how the israeli state came about. we need to help both parties. it can't just be just for the israelis. please, reconsider your policies so that we can help the palestinians also. thank you so much and i will look forward to hearing from congressman nichols. host: bob in texas, independent line. caller: good morning.

i want to say happy birthday to navy joan roberts biden, the granddaughter of the president. i haven't seen any reports that she was invited to thanksgiving dinner. i want to say that the situation with this granddaughter is primarily on the wife of the president because she does not provide a good moral compass for his actions. hunter had an affair with his brothers wife and they said that was the wife and the president said, it was great this they were happy together. that didn't work out. the granddaughter was denied the relationship for many years and

finally, because they didn't present hunter to recognize his own actions. it's really a sad day in a way but i'm glad to see they've gotten back together and i hope the five-year-old granddaughter has a good day. host: she was acknowledged by the president back in june and there are several stories to that effect when it comes to hunter biden. some of the news yesterday that the lawyers for hunter biden has offered to testify before the house. jim palmer from accountability and oversight saying he was expected to testify confidentially requested. it will be on the eighth on russia and ukraine during a period when his father served as vice president. hunter biden has been accused by several republicans.

let's hear from orlando, florida, republican line. caller: yes, hi, thank you for taking my call. i would like to know why we are having all of these trucks going into gaza. who is paying for all of this? why is this happening? host: ok, nadia in mclean, virginia, independent line. caller: thank you for taking my call and i'm happy to answer the last caller. those trucks are going in because people are not allowed to work in gaza. there are no resources, no running water, no agriculture. there is no supermarket you can go and buy from.

israel is an occupied state. please learn about that. mike call is really about how congress is a farce. the problem is the congressman and senators, everyone who is an aipac recipient. i would like to remind the listeners and thank you so much for allowing us this open for. david ben-gurion in 1937 wrote that we must expel the arabs and take their places. people should remember that. zionism is not judaism. jews and muslims are not enemies. they both come from the prophet abraham. they are from the same traits. the problem is with the

political ideology which is zionism which is exactly like communism, socialism and marxism. host: several members of congress are giving us their time through this morning. representative buddy carter, thanks for your time. guest: thank you for having me. host: being a member of the budget committee, can you offer a roadmap how the house is planning keeping government funded past january? guest: we have the continuing resolution and it will take effect or has taken effect and it will carry us through january 19 for 4 of the bills we hope to get done by then. i feel confident we can get those done and the rest of them will come due on february 2. we will continue to work on those as well. the main focus right now i think has to be to get those 4 bills done. we got to go through the senate

and compromise with them, we've got to conference with them and make sure we are on the same page. and then we have to get it to the white has to get it signed into law. host: on its face, what the house provides is not on the same page as guest: guest: the senate? that's why you go to conference. i've been saying and continue to say and will continue to say that i'm sick and tired of legislating and the idea of what the senate can accept and won't accept. we have to do our job in the house. we have to come up with good legislation and then we send it to the senate and then we conference. that's why the process is supposed to work and that the weight we should approach the process. host: you talked about four bills and three to go. is there enough time to do that? guest: there is enough time. the four bills that are due by january 19, we should be able to get those done. the senate has already passed

them in a minibus and many to conference and get them together and get those past. we still have the ag bill to get through the house and i think we can do that. we may send that straight to conference and accept what they have in the senate and then go to conference and work it out that way. there are a number of different options we have your to get this done. host: if time runs out and it's perhaps not done, does another cr come into play? guest: our hope is that that will not be the case. our hope is that we can get these done in a way we will not have to do anothercr, that these four bills will go into effect before january 19 and we will concentrate on the other eight bills that have to be passed as well. host: we are the speaker mentioned that when it comes to the package that includes israel and ukraine aid that speaker johnson says he things it will pass in the house. do you share his confidence? guest: i do think it will pass

in the house. we have already done the resolution supporting israel and i was a cosponsor that resolution. hamas is obviously a terrorist organization and they need to be eliminated. i agree with that but the same time, we need to help israel and defend israel and they need to have the resources and be able to defend their citizens and defend their state. we want to make sure we are there. israel is an important ally for us and we have to keep that in mind. i applaud speaker johnson in the way he approached this in a fiscally responsible way by identifying how we are going to use those funds, where we will get them from instead of just creating the funds themselves. i applaud him for doing that and i will say that those democrats voted against that, who say it's more important to fund israel, their priorities are misaligned. host: you've heard discussions

when it comes to the aid about the potential conditions physically for israel being put on future aid. where are those discussions going? guest: i think there will be some conditions. that's ok. i certainly don't want blank checks sent there but i want to see progress made. i think israel is making progress. progress should be to wipe out hamas. hamas is a terrorist group that kills citizens, innocent citizens and what happened on october 7, we cannot tolerate that in this world. host: what level of conditions are you comfortable with? guest: if we set certain benchmarks that we want to see, then perhaps that will be ok. we will have to see what those benchmarks are but at the same time, again, i don't want us to repeat what we've done in other situations where we send blank

checks without any kind of benchmarks at all. what we need to do is have a plan. that's the problem we have now in ukraine. that's why a lot of republicans are hesitating and we support ukraine. we want them to be successful, but we also want to see a plan. host: when it comes to negotiations over the budget and funding, one of the topics that has come up on the senate side is when it comes to border security. what would you like to see as a result of these negotiations toward border security? idf we would like to see guest: -- we would like to see hr2 past. this administration has ignored this border. there are records being set and you will see over 240,000 people crossing that border and there were 12 people cross the border on the terrorist watch list.

this administration needs to get serious about it. we will consider a bill this week for taking our communities from failure to protect the southern border. that is extremely important because we've got to stop being sentenced. there is incentives for these people coming across including housing. this bill will eliminate and revoke what new york city is doing in putting people up in national parks and we will prohibit national park from being used for tent cities these people. host: when more budget question, representative chip roy yesterday in an op-ed talked about matters of budgeting and he wrote this thing when it comes to the budget and wipe we have side deals, $54 billion is the annual department for the department of homeland security, he said democrats expect speaker

johnson to be rejected. guest: i agree in principle with chip and i think he brings up a good point. this is the type of math that has been used. it's a video math and it is -- it's voodoo math. we've got a serious problem in this country. the number one issue in the country now, the biggest threat we have is our national debt. if you look at the spending line items in her budget, you will see that its security and then medicare and then defense. what is number two, the interest on our debt. it's not sustainable. we've got to stop this. i applaud chip roy for identifying how we are getting to these deficits we are experiencing here. host: so you would agree that

the speaker should follow chip roy's suggestion? guest: i would hope he would at least look at it and yes, follow it. host: what do you think should happen to george santos? guest: i will vote to have him expelled. the ethics committee is also found enough evidence -- this cannot be tolerated. this is not a place for someone like this that is doing these kind of things serving in the house of representatives. i think it's a bad reflection on the entire body and we don't need someone like that serving with us. host: if that happens, what is your concern about the majority republicans will have in the house? guest: obviously, i want is to be in the majority. we need to get our policies through but more important, the status of the house is important in making sure that we keep a

body that is respected, a body that all of us would be proud to serve him. host: representative buddy carter from georgia serves on the budget committee joining us this morning. thank you for your time. guest: thank you. host: back to open form and we will hear from jerry in kentucky, democrats line, hello. caller: yeah, thank you for taking my call. just a couple of comments -- i would like to make about the new speaker. he is another puppet of donald trump. he will shut down in january. for the senator and alabama that's opened up the military for national security is a decrypt test is a disgrace, too. the republican party is ruining this country, thank you for taking my call. host: ruth is on our republican line in chicago. caller: yeah, this is kind of

off the subject that every time i hear democrats and the fellow from south carolina, they refer to anybody who pays taxes at a higher level as a tax cheat. i wonder if people like him consider hunter biden a tax cheat. as an individual, i get sick and tired of pay your fair share. the fair share is not paid anything by the lower half, i'm talking federal income taxes. it just gets old. it's divide the country, divide the country, it's just not right. thank you for taking my call, my friend. host: independent line from colorado, hello. caller: good morning, pedro. you are doing a great job. i watch c-span all the time and you are doing a fine job. want to make a quick comment that the commander that was on earlier. he needs to get his history

lessons right about israel and hamas. the problem with israel has gone back almost 2700 years. it didn't start modernly until the first world war when the jews started to come back to israel and started to push the arabs or palestinians out. they been going back and forth until 1948 when israel was given their statehood. that's when international forces should have come in and set up rules for them because they can't live together so someone has to come in and make rules for both of them. they have to set up a constitutionalestablishes rightt just israel, but the palestinians. if they do that, a lot of this fighting is going to end eventually. it has got to. host: that is larry in colorado. we have spoken about george

santos and his possible expulsion from congress. it was outside his office he made comments to that effect, which our cameras caught. here is what took place. [video clip] >> i want to ask about your conversation with speaker johnson. >> i spoke to him over thanksgiving. >> i assume you have spoken more recently. >> i did. i spoke to him earlier today. sorry. there is no secrets in this place. it is amazing that you know what goes on. i had a conversation with him. he asked how i was doing and if i made my decision and i said yes. get or shut up at this point. all of these members are pushing this. they want me to resign because they do not want to take this tough vote that sets a precedent to their own demise. they are not immune from the nonsense that goes on in

washington where you follow them around. they do not like it either. they can keep up, they can keep doing this, but my message is put up or shut up. he made a point to say he was not calling me to ask me to resign. host: a couple of days in which congress could respond as far as expulsion. watch for that through the course of this week when it concerns senator tuberville. he told senate republicans, listen, i got you into this mess. i am going to get you out. the first time he votes to end military promotion before chuck schumer puts resolutions on the floor to avoid putting republicans in a tough spot. that is some of the other things you can see play out on the senate side. you can watch on c-span2, follow

along on the app at c-span now. from missouri, democrats line, this is john. caller: big fan. i watch the show all the time. russia is [indiscernible] israel is tiny. let's give ukraine a big piece of land between ukraine and russia. palestine will have land. thank you. host: this is allie from virginia, independent line -- ali from virginia on the independent line. caller: thank you. the man that says hamas needs to

invade israel. he needs to open his mind. look at the speaker of the house. he is worse than mccarthy. host: when it comes to george santos, you heard him talk about the efforts. when it comes to the action on the house floor it was congressman robert garcia giving his intent for that expulsion resolution to start the process. [video clip] >> for what purpose does the gentleman from california seek recognition? >> pursuant to clause 2a1 i rise to give notice of my intent to raise a question of the privileges of the house. the form of the resolution is as follows. house resolution 114 resolved that pursuant to article one, section five, clause two of the constitution, representative george santos hereby is expelled from the house of

representatives. thank you, mr. speaker. >> a resolution offered by a member other than the majority leader or minority leader as a question of the privilege of the house has immediate precedent only designated by the chair within two legislative days after notice. pending designation the form of the resolution noticed by the gentleman will appear in the record at this point. the chair will not at this point determine whether the resolution constitutes question of privilege. that determination will be made at the time designated for consideration of the resolution. host: that was yesterday at the start of the clock. when it comes to the future of george santos continue to watch the house as that plays out. stanley in arkansas, republican line. caller: yes, sir. thank you for taking my call. there are seven things you have got to be to be a democrat. you have got to be a crook.

then you have got to be willing to steal, cheat, and lie. well, then you have to be a halfbreed or queer or lesbian. you are one of these things and you too can be part of biden's administration. host: in kentucky, democrat line. caller: i want to point out that the conservatives of america have done a 180 degree change on their position on something they have always been adamant about, by the way, is no surprise. ronald reagan decided to become a conservative republican because it sounded better. ron desantis is telling us if somebody walks into a building and blows people away with a machine gun is because they have a mental health problem.

it used to be conservatives told us if summit kills summy with a gun, you cannot blame it on the fact they are crazy. in 1981, john hinckley, who was obsessed with a hollywood actress, shot ronald reagan and his press secretary and then brady's wife went on an anti-gun campaign. the result of the shooting was hinckley was found not guilty by reason of insanity. the conservatives became furious and said this was what was wrong with america. reagan, when asked about the verdict, said, no comment. while he was president he eliminated federal funding of long-term mental health institutions. now the conservatives are telling you the opposite. we should spend more money on mental health treatment. host: great falls, virginia, independent line. caller: i have to say that the hatefulness and bigotry that is permitted from the previous caller is revolting. i will say there was a

representative that just said the national debt is the greatest concern, but he also said in the same segment that he wants to fund israel and not the irs. i have got to say i am in one of the highest rent areas in the country. i am a high net worth individual and high salary and i am living comfortably thanks to the bush tax cuts and obama putting those in place. with the donald trump tax cuts and adding $7.8 trillion to the debt, let's get real. at some point we need to pay down our debt and be serious about that. you cannot say, you know, the national debt is the greatest concern but we do not want to structure ourselves to pay that debt down. host: ok. you can continue calling in on this open forum. (202)-748-8000 for democrats,

(202)-748-8001 for republicans, (202)-748-8002 for independents. as promised, members of congress joining us throughout the morning, including representative norma torres from california. she serves the 35th district and a member of the appropriations committee. thank you for your time. guest: thank you for the opportunity to be with you. host: as an appropriator where do you see the current debate over inter-funding for israel, ukraine, and other things under the supplemental bill? what is your confidence that passage is going to happen? guest: my confidence level is based on the amount of support israel has with both parties, republicans and democrats. both are committed to ensuring israel has the funding that it needs in order to defend itself from terrorists all around their neighborhood. i think we need to continue to keep israel bipartisan funding a

priority. republicans have taken a stab at creating a partisan divide around the funding with the last budget vote when they decided to include defunding the irs. a critical program that we need in order to continue to fund the federal government. it is so ridiculous the idea that this republican majority is coming up with. host: one of the other hurdles is border security. what do you think of wha t republicans are proposing? guest: border security cannot be part of this package. border security is too important for both democrats and republicans to be included in a fast-moving type of bill. border security must stand alone

and i stand against that. the hispanic caucus stands against that. we know for too long republicans have tried to include daca in this border security funding package and let me remind the public again. daca young people are folks that live in our communities. they work in our communities. they have spent the majority of their lives living in the u.s. they are not a national security threat to us. let's treat them as such and stop dehumanizing this group of individuals that are making things better for us in the u.s. host: many republicans pointing to current border crossing numbers. you are probably seeing the same numbers. as far as concerns, in light of those numbers, why not make us some aspect of this border security? guest: we have made a

significant improvement in those numbers during the last two years of the obama administration when vice president biden was very focused on dealing with the root cause of migration. i was part of that effort. we had included a security plan for the region. we had included a plan to ensure the young people could see a future for themselves by ensuring they were creating jobs in those countries. that is what we need to focus on. the root cause of these strongmen who have found themselves in latin america and throughout the world. this is not unique to the u.s., these migration issues. they are a worldwide concern and we need to address it in a humane way. host: when it comes to the funding for the federal government we have had several republicans and democrats expressing confidence some type

of resolve will take place by the end of january. how much confidence do you share in that? guest: i have zero confidence in the republican leadership that they will be able to pass a bill that will essentially earn the support of the white house and the senate. up until now they have been playing games by passing bills that would never see the light of day. i think if they are serious about passing a budget bill they need to work with democrats. together we have proven three times this year, with the democratic votes that have been the majority of the votes, we have been able to pass continuing resolutions. let's stay focused on that and let's continue to grow our economy and continue to address inflation that our constituents

are demanding. host: you are a member of the congressional hispanic caucus. you probably have seen different poles looking at president biden's prospects for 2024. among them weakening support among the latino community. do you share in that sentiment or do you question those findings? guest: i share in the sentiment that latinos need to be talked to. up until this last month the biting campaign had not made the effort that they need to make in order to continue to talk to this population. they care about the same things all americans care about -- safe communities, safe jobs -- and we must deliver on those issues. we also have to deliver on ensuring we have an immigration bill that meets the needs of this population that have continued to pay taxes and are

part of our economy. host: as a member of the caucus, has the caucus gone to the white house and said we need more discussion? guest: absolutely. also, through the bold pac, we have called the president to a meeting to ensure that they hear our concerns. they need to spend money in spanish media and they need to spend money reaching out to these voters that need to be touched. we cannot continue to ignore them because we know when we ignore this population they do not come out because they believe they are not important to us. host: what is the response to that invitation? guest: the response has been in scheduling conflicts between this congressional schedule that up until recent days we have not been able to figure out whether

we are going to be here or in the district. on top of that, world issues have taken the president abroad on surprise numerous times and we have had to cancel meetings. i look forward to having this conversation with the campaign and with the president to ensure we have commitment that latinos will be a priority in the 2024 election. host: amongst your many background when it comes to your career you were also a 911 dispatcher. what does that experience prepare for what you do today? guest: that experience prepared me for january 6 for one. it prepared me to deal with critical and crazy times here. i will take a suicide attempt call anytime before these violent debates on the floor with republicans. putting that aside, look, 911

dispatchers are the unsung heroes of first responders. we need to remember that every time when we find ourselves in the most vulnerable time of our life. we dial 911 and those three digit numbers, there is a live person. that person has to be trained and we have to ensure we continue to recruit because of the stressful mental health toll that these positions hold. we have a very high attrition rate among these workers. i have been trying to ensure that we reclassify them and recognize their public safety status and reclassified as first responders. host: you have legislation to

that end. guest: i do. it is a bipartisan bill. we have removed all opposition. fire fighters, police officers are in support. we just introduced the bill in the 118th congress and we have 51 bipartisan members co-authoring the bill. even though we had some opposition there were 130 bipartisan members co-authoring the bill. host: should it come to happen as far as the expulsion of santos where are you? guest: i think it should happen. this person is a facade of the person the voters thought they were electing. i always think of the voters when we are faced with this type of decision. this is not an easy decision for

anyone in congress, republican or democrat. but i think republicans have been coddling him for too long. he has gotten away with these crimes that he will sooner or later have to face in criminal court and will have to testify as to why he utilized campaign funding as his personal funds from day one. this person is not the person the voters thought they were electing. he does not belong here. he cheapened the position we have, a very honorable position we have been entrusted with. host: our guest serves the 35th district of california. thank you for your time. guest: thank you. host: thank you for holding to the callers. joe in connecticut, independent line. thank you for holding. go ahead. caller: yes, thank you for having me.

i would like to say americans better wake up and smell the coffee. donald trump is a traitor and anyone who supports or defended him is a traitor and we know what donald trump says about traitors. host: robert in arizona, republican line. caller: about george santos, if he is a criminal, convict him. as i listened to the congresspeople, your previous guest excluded, they do not have much specific to say. i hear a lot of judgmental sanctimony and we all have issues. yeah. mostly it is coming from media. it would not surprise me if santos was installed to be a punching bag so we can all laugh at republicans. get this over with and move on to things that are important.

host: independent line, mike in missouri. caller: good morning. i am calling this morning because i am wondering if i am the only person in the world who is wondering what james comer is afraid of putting hunter biden's testimony on television. seems to me he is afraid of something. he has got this blah, blah, blah going on but no facts. the trump family is the criminal family because they are the ones in court right now for doing what they have done. i have a message for josh hawley about not funding the ukraine war. i believe our united name stands

for russia, not republican. i started a conversation two days ago in the doctor's office with three other people about not funding ukraine. it seems to me four out of four missourians believe that ukraine should be funded. so, josh hawley and comer are feces stands -- host: the washington post reporting court files monday prosecutors were told to turn over reams on the election.

-- whether the former president believes the election was stolen may be a matter of trial. they cannot suppress and withhold from president trump information that supports this defense and related arguments regarding good faith in the absence of his criminal intent. it goes on from there if you want to read it in the washington post. the cop 28 climate summit is taking place this week. the wall street journal reports nearly 200 nations and business leaders pledged eight years ago to keep earth from warming above 1.5 degrees celsius. that goal has proven difficult to meet. the 1.5 degree threshold is a not a random number. it has been embedded in what kind of cars we drive and how nearly all businesses operate. but even as the u.s. and other nations ramp up cleaner renewable solar and wind power, overall emissions keep going up. that is in the wall street journal.

the new york times reports that president biden signed the country's first major climate law, overseeing record federal investment in clean energy. he attended the united nations climate summit asserting american leadership in the fight of global warming, but this year will likely be the hottest in recorded history. mr. biden will not travel to the summit in dubai. he is consumed by other global crises, mainly securing the release of hostages held by hamas, and working to persuade congress to approve aid to ukraine in its fight against russia. there is more in the new york times. let's go to john in michigan, democrats line. caller: morning, pedro. i would like to know where the matter of matt gaetz and the minor women who he took across state lines. i would like to know where that situation is at.

thank you. host: this is steve in maine, republican line. caller: hi, pedro. you do a hell of a job. i would like congress to get tough and hold israel and ukraine's governments to making sensible decisions and not playing warfare after warfare, revenge after revenge. if they do not change, i think we should cut off funding for them. we are spending too much. biden's spending less time on looking at the borders and i think he is overall spent a little too much money. host: in reference to the previous caller, this is the story that played out in february this year. the headline saying the justice department declining the charge representative gaetz was

involved in sex trafficking. michael in columbus, ohio, democrats line. caller: you have got all of these republicans that are crooked. it is always going to be donald trump. as long as nobody speak up and tell the truth about donald trump. whoever wins the nomination, they gonna follow after trump. trump was going to tell them what to do until somebody speaks up about how crooked donald trump is. that is the bottom line. host: john in louisiana, independent line. caller: good morning. how are you doing? host: i am well, thank you. caller: i served 30 years in the military and i am kind of disgusted with all branches of our government right now. what i do not understand is if i was in the military and i committed a crime, i was no longer allowed to serve.

i do not understand why people are allowed to stay in congress or why they are allowed to even run for the president of the united states. they got all these crimes that are pending against them. it is just not right. i enjoyed my service. i would do it again but i am totally disgusted with all branches of the government and everything they doing. they cannot even sit down and have a civil conversation to benefit the common man who works day in and day out trying to survive. thank you for your time. host: john in louisiana. it is open for them until 10:00. (202)-748-8000 for democrats, republicans (202)-748-8001, an independents (202)-748-8002. it was the former first lady rosalynn carter who died november 19 at age 96. she was honored at a service in atlanta yesterday and one of the people who gave a tribute was her grandson, jason carter. [video clip]

jason: my grandmother does not need a eulogy. her life was a sermon. it was a mighty testament to the power of faith and the power of a deep and determined love. she lived this public love story that we all know of, that has inspired the world including in these last days. i think about her most viral moment when they were at a baseball game and the braves put them on the kiss cam. [laughter] people were crying at the braves game. [laughter] but we heard about it for years. but in my family we all experienced those more private love stories. she was my grandmother first. she was like everyone else's

grandmother in a lot of ways. almost all of her recipes called for mayonnaise. [laughter] we all got cards on our birthdays. $20 bill in it. [laughter] she was so down to earth it was amazing. one of the stories we have been talking about in my family the last few days as we were on a family trip on a flight and we were sitting in the back of the airplane together. it took off and we looked over and my grandmother took out this tupperware of pomatto cheese. [laughter] this loaf of bread and started making sandwiches. [laughter] she gave it to all of us grandkids and then she started giving them to other people on the plane. [laughter] people were sitting there like, rosalynn carter made me the sandwich. they cannot believe it but she loved people.

and she was a cool grandma. host: that full-service is available if you go to our website and our app. let's hear from jim in ohio, independent line. caller: i am calling in. i used to feel sorry for these maga people that had been converted to this cult. they have turned into a terrorist organization, in my opinion. why has nothing been done about it or even exposed all the dirty stories? they are scaring people. host: tony in texas, republican line. caller: i just want to touch base on this immigration thing going on. i am married to a woman that came over to america. she came to america with a visa. we filed for her citizenship.

it has been five years and over $6,000 already to get my wife's citizenship. she has not reached the citizenship part yet, and still not received her 10-year visa. when trump was in office everything was going real fast and smooth. as soon as joe biden took over, it all stopped. everything seemed to be put on hold. you got to remember these daca people are still illegal. even though they came over as children i would like to know how come the people getting done legally, like we have, are being put to the end and all the illegals being put to the front. thank you for what you do. host: new jersey, democrats line, we will hear from james. caller: good morning. i have a comment. i wondered about this quite often. ex-president trump said the

military people were losers. but he wants to be commander-in-chief and lead the military people. i don't understand. i am ex-military and i do not understand how some of these people could vote for him. host: the new york times reporting that the network has given their support to presidential candidate nikki haley. the reporting from this morning in the washington post says americans for prosperity action, the flagship political group, announced the first endorsement of its type. they identified five approved candidates all of whom fell to trump. they are proud of throw the support -- to throw the support behind nikki haley.

the senior advisor wrote the memo. nikki will have unmatched resources to help her to become the next president of united states. that is in the washington post. you can call the numbers until 10:00. (202)-748-8000 for democrats, (202)-748-8001 for republicans, an independents (202)-748-8002. one of the names we have mentioned many times during the course of this morning's representative george santos. particularly as his future is in question. joining us to highlight where that status is is stephen newcomb of the messenger. good morning. guest: good morning. thank you for having me. host: we saw events play out yesterday but remind the folks at home what led up to this. guest: it has been a long road. almost from the time george

santos got to capitol hill there were stories about, you know, how he had allegedly misused campaign funds or defrauded people back home. there was a while where it felt like we could not go a day without a new story coming out. now he is under criminal indictment. he has also been investigated by the house ethics committee. he has already survived an attempt to be expelled from the house. his colleagues voted to table it. but now that the house ethics committee has confirmed that there is significant evidence that he improperly used campaign funds it is a pretty damming report. we have seen support from his fellow republicans, some who

have already voted to keep him in congress, who have said they plan to change their vote to make him the fifth or sixth person to ever be booted from the house of representatives. host: we heard representative robert garcia come to the floor yesterday and introduce the privilege resolution to start the process. what did he do yesterday? what happens from here? guest: democrats yesterday -- what mr. garcia and mr. goldman were doing -- forcing republicans' hands into having to hold a vote at some point this week on expelling george santos. they frame it as an insurance policy but did not trust republican leadership to act on their own. republican leadership has not yet scheduled a vote for expelling george santos. later in the night after a late night vote series a new york republican -- new york

republicans noticed their own privilege to expel george santos. it triggers a motion that will force a vote on that expulsion resolution in the next two days. democrats forced republicans' hands and then a group of republicans themselves later that night chose to go down the route of triggering the privilege on the resolution. we will have a vote on expelling george santos by the end of this week. host: there is no legislative procedure that could delay or hold off the vote as it stands? guest: they could always vote to table it. that is what happened last time. it was a privilege resolution. they had two days to vote. somebody can do a motion to table to essentially kill the resolution and that is what happened last time. it would need a majority -- simple majority support to table the motion.

i would expect to see that happen whether it is mr. santos for somebody else triggering the motion. all signs point that there is enough support to historically get rid of mr. santos from congress, which would make him the third member of the house to be expelled in the last century. host: does the procedure allow for any rebuttal or defense from mr. santos directly? guest: it does. there is speaking time. there will be a debate on the floor. last time this happened nobody spoke in favor of mr. santos. actually, george santos allowed -- he allotted time to dan goldman to speak against him because he said he things everybody should have a voice in this even though it was not in his favor.

we do not have a single member speak up last time. it looks like it will just be george santos defending himself publicly. there are some republicans who say they will not vote for this resolution. they do not think it is fair to expel a member without criminal conviction, but that does not mean they are publicly going to back or stand up next to george santos. host: if it happens and he is removed, what does new york state do as far as the position itself? guest: good question. there will be a special election at some point. here's the thing. republicans have a slim majority. they did swear in a republican this week from utah. if mr. santos is out of congress, they will be back to the majority they had before that swearing-in. but this is an area in new york, this long island district, where

we saw -- it was a battleground in the last two elections. flipping from democrats to republicans. there will be a lot of eyes on that district and whatever plays out should mr. santos be kicked out of congress or resign, or even if you were to stay in and how that district plays out in 2024. host: you can find his work at the messenger.com. thank you for your time. guest: thank you for having me. host: you can watch what happens when it comes to representative santos play out on the house side on c-span, c-span now, and c-span.org. in florida, independent line, we will hear from david. thank you for waiting. go ahead. caller: ok. i missed out on talking about the war with israel and hamas. i just do not understand why they do not take into custody

the three oligarchs in qatar. they are worth trillions all three of them and they seem to be the head of hamas. i always thought in our military we took care of the head of the controlling factors. our military would usually do that. i think we should encourage the israeli military to think about negotiating with qatar to get the hostages back. they could negotiate a trade with those three oligarchs and maybe get funds so they can rebuild gaza. i do not think those three oligarchs think about the palestinian people. i think they think about their own self-interest. that is what i think would stop this nonsense. host: alexa in indiana, democrats line. caller: good morning. i am calling in regards to

wanting the government or congress to do their work, get things taken care of, and take a look at the priorities that people have. they keep talking about we the people or the american people. well, this american person wants to know why they are not doing their work and always have to argue about everything and take vacations. get to work, get your stuff done, and get the government going. thank you. host: from sharon in delaware, republican line. caller: good morning. my point of calling today -- because i have listened to your previous callers -- is that they are not getting it. if we are going -- equal justice under the law for everybody. i am all for seeing hunter biden make his debut on live tv because i would watch that.

however, they have to follow the procedures and treat everybody like they would want to be treated, their own family members. the whole presidency has been a total disaster. i cannot think of one thing that has made my life better. it has made it worse and i worry every day about these open borders, north and south, and they are turning a blind eye. we will not be shocked one of these days in the future when this open border comes back to bite us. this is a sad state of affairs for this country. yes, joe biden is compromised. look at his foreign policy. it has been a total disaster. people have died. 13 soldiers that he is not concerned about at all. never mentions them. host: even the current negotiations taking place between israel and hamas? you do not give the biden administration credit for that? caller: well, let's put it this

way. he has really started to turn his back on israel and that is going to be a major disaster in the future. i think he is more looking at the poll numbers and the rioting and protesting -- not rioting -- but protesting in the streets. he is concerned about getting reelected so he can run us further into the ground. this is a sad thing. host: ok. we will hear from connie in tennessee, democrats line. caller: am i speaking to pablo? host: you are on the air. caller: ok. an earlier caller was talking about his foreign-born wife, the difficulties they are having in getting her citizenship. i kind of googled back to see what happened with melania

trump's parents and their pathway to citizenship. if you could speak on that? and one thing i would like to say about joe biden. he does not think like other people that have never lost a wife and two children. he takes things to heart. that is really important to remember when he is dealing with this israel and palestinian issue. he knows what it feels like to lose a wife and children, especially children. one other thing. this is my not so nice thing. when i turn and look at fox news and i see laura ingraham and they are wearing their crosses and spewing hate and division

and untruth, they really desecrate the meaning of the cross. host: ok. we believe it is there. a couple of events. 10:00 this morning is the hearing before the house financial services mmittee. it will feate the director of the consumer financial protection bureau who will testify on the agency's semiannual report. pected to address large non-bank companies that offer digital payment apps with the same oversight as financial banks. see that on c-span3. at 3:00 this afternoon a hearing featuring families with hostages held by hamas. that before the subcommittee. c-span3 and the app is where you can watch that as well. paul in iowa, independent line. caller: hi. i would like to talk about the

aid we are giving israel for hamas. i would like to point out that the palestinians voted hamas in as their government. just to give you an idea -- [indiscernible] -- 76% of them agreed that they think hamas was right by attacking israel and slaughtering 1300 people, women and children. 95% think america is evil. as far as humanitarian aid, i think israel is doing everything they can to avoid killing innocent civilians. it is difficult to see which

civilians would be innocent. as far as the middle east goes, there are plenty of rich arab, muslim countries where palestine could exist without any problem. host: ok. let's hear from clarence in north carolina, republican line. caller: good morning, pedro. i listen to c-span every morning. 90% of black people that call in -- being black myself -- vote democrat. i want to say one thing to you 99% democrats. democrats did nothing but kept us in poverty. cap black folks in projects. it reminds me of slavery. they keep us like we are slaves. they act like if you vote for republicans, you will live on a plantation. think for yourself. i vote republican and i vote democrat. i vote independent.

i do not let a party control my thinking. 95% of every election black folks vote for democrats. they control the black race. as long as they control the black race we stay in poverty and we are at the bottom of the totem. that is why when the spanish come over here they are hard-working people. they do not let nobody control them so they can get ahead. when a party controls you, they keep you in poverty. host: that is clarencin north carolina. the wall street journal reports on a new report looking at suicides in the united states. nearly 50,000 people in the u.s. lost their lives to suicide in 2022, according to a provisional tally from the national center for health statistics. the agency said the final count likely be higher. suicide rate of 14.3 deaths per 100,000 people reached its highest level since 1941. in record reflects broad struggles and mental distress following the pandemic that killed more than one million in

the u.s., upended the economy, and left many isolated and afraid. more from that at the wall street journal's website. let's hear from edward in florida, democrats line. caller: how are you doing? good day to everyone. i wanted to mention something about the presidency and the race next year. as far as the age thing goes, my grandfather's 87. he still fixes cars, washing machines, sewing machines, even taught me to do that stuff when i was growing up. as far as age goes, i think that is a stupid joke everybody wants to talk about. if everybody looks at the difference between biden and trump when they speak, biden talks about what he is doing and what he has done, what he is trying to do and what he wants to get done. trump talks about hate and how everything is going to crap in america. if you really think america is that bad, why don't you do

summing about it? they are whiny people. they complain about the government being too much in control and they want the government to do everything for them. i really think -- people should look at the content of what these people are saying and what they are going to do. host: let's hear from eve in michigan, democrats line. caller: good morning, pedro. i just would like to say for seven years we listened to the republican party talk about benghazi. now it is hunter biden. these people have nothing to do with hunter biden's business and they are talking about the granddaughter coming for the holidays. it is none of their business. they need to put their people together before they can start talking about someone out. also, i am just like george santos. if they cannot get marjorie

taylor greene and matt gaetz, the guy taking the girls across the border to do whatever he want to do with them -- host: those are allegations but go ahead. caller: excuse me? host: that is an allegation but go ahead. caller: at the same time, like i said, we put up with benghazi for seven years. and they will not say anything to the people doing wrong in their body. but just like santos said, you need to put up or shut up. host: jonathan in texas, republican line. hi. jonathan in texas, hello? one more time for jonathan. caller: hello? host: go ahead. caller: i just want to comment and say i think speaker johnson

is doing an excellent job. they need to move them. host: jonathan in texas. one of the white house traditions that comes year after year depending on who -- no matter who is in power -- is the unveiling of the white house holiday decor. this year's's theme magic, wonder, and joy. [video clip] >> several years ago in our nation's capitol one of the finest violinists in the world played at a busy metra station during morning rush hour. it was part of an experiment to see what would happen or if anyone would notice. hundreds of commuters rushed by, absorbed in the busyness of their daily lives, oblivious to the beauty floating in the air

around them. time and time again one particular group noticed, arching their neck, captivated in surprise as they heard the music. this group consistently wandered over to the violinist delighting in the beauty pouring from his strings. any idea who it was? >> children. >> that is exactly right. children are unbound by time and inherently no beauty. the rich, colorful mosaic of autumn leaves piled high on an emerald blanket of grass. the mesmerizing rhythm of soft snow as it falls from a glistening night sky. the gorges sound of an extraordinary -- gorgeous

sound of an extraordinary violinist. each captures this unfiltered delight and imagination. host: more let presentation available at c-span now and the website. when it comes to the president's activities today he is traveling to colorado. he will go to the largest wind tower manufacturer in the world. he will deliver remarks on mobilizing investment in clean energy manufacturing, creating good paying jobs, including in the district represented by lauren boebert. scheduled to speak at 1:45.

it goes on from there as far as the president's visit. follow along on our website and our app. miriam in virginia, independent line. caller: how are you? host: well. how about yourself? caller: good thanks. i am a big fan. i was calling because i heard a gentleman earlier speaking about hamas and talking about palestinians supporting hamas. that they were "voted in." i urge you listeners to do your research. misinformation is the crux of this issue right now. palestinians don't have any voting ability. they don't have any voting rights. they are essentially forced second-class citizens, if you can say they are citizens, in the state of israel. if you do some research, you can

also find that israel helped create hamas by preventing the palestinians from having political parties. think about being an american. we have these rights of being able to have discourse and have democrats and republicans and different political groups. imagine if that was not allowed. there would definitely be violence. there would be fringe organizations created against that. we have to take into context the situation at hand and what israel is doing as an apartheid terrorist state. that does not justify what hamas did. but i think americans know better than anybody that sometimes, you know, revolt is the answer. that is what our country was founded on. host: josh is in utah, democrats line. caller: how are you doing this morning? host: fine thank you. go ahead.

caller: i just look at everything going on and, you know, even though we elect a president a lot of the strings are from congress, from the senate, and the house. when i look at the house i see a chamber that is very dysfunctional. i mean, you have a republican party that took power after the 2022 elections and they took so long to get a speaker, they ousted their speaker, and people mentioned hold people to a standard because they are going after hunter biden. hold the same standard for everybody. i think the strings of congress -- if people are unhappy with how congress is running, do something about it.

i believe that we were given the right to vote so you should. i think, you know, someone said earlier we should not complain about it and do some thing about it. they are right. we have the power to vote and we should be able to vote if you do not like how congress is going. you do not have to vote partyline. there is no guarantee i will vote for a democratic ticket. host: i hate to pause you there only because the house is about to come in. carol in west virginia, independent line. caller: so much to say and so little time. we should not have any foreign aid going to any foreign country unless there are stipulations behind it all. we need to fix our immigration and what we need to do is do away with birthright citizenship. we really need to know who is coming into our country and why they are going to be here.

congress, both parties, needs to put their partisanship aside, quit trying to outdo each other, and do what is best for the american people. i would like to know why no democrat will put a limit on the abortion. at least the republicans are saying, well, we need between 12 and 15 weeks. yes, it is a woman's right and it should be discussed between her and her doctor. but the covid shot was not treated the same way. host: wilmington, illinois. go ahead with your comment. caller: i will make it quick. this thing with israel, i do not think we need to be funny them at all. they claim to be the chosen people of god. let god take care of it. happy solstice. host: that is stephen in illinois. a lot playing out this week when it comes to congress and these

16 odd days before the next series of breaks on the house side. you will see activity on the senate side as well. we invite you to stay close to our various channels. c-span, which you are watching now, covers the house. the senate's is c-span2. you can always follow along on the app and our website at c-span.org. that is it for our program today. another edition comes your way tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. the house is about to come in. we take you to the house of representatives. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023]