government, politics and public policy. from washington and across the country. coming up thursday morning, we will discuss congressional needs of the day, including debates over u.s. aid to israel and ukraine, and border security with a texas democratic congressman and republican congressman. a washington examiner congressional reporter talks about how gop leadership plans to bring a vote to the floor to authorize an impeachment inquiry into president biden. the hills energy and environment reporter previews cup 28, the annual u.n. climate summit that opens this week in dubai. c-span's "washington journal", joined the conversation live at 7:00 eastern thursday morning on c-span, c-span now, or online at c-span.org. thursday former trump

administration officials including the former acting homeland security secretary testify on immigration at the u.s. southern border, and the so-called remain in mexico policy. you can watch the house foreign affairs mmittee hearing live two :00 p.m. eastern on c-span3, c-span now, or online at c-span.org. >> we want to welcome to the program dan o'shea, former navy seal commander. he was the former coordinator for hostage works in baghdad. he served in that position from 2004 to 2006. thanks for giving us your time this morning. start -- tell us about your experiences in baghdad when it comes to the issue of hostage negotiation and parallel that to things you are seeing about what is going on between israel and hamas on the same front. >> i arrived in july of 2004 after the kidnapping and beheading the ended up hearing

-- airing on al jazeera. my first day on the job, i showed up. i was in interagency liaison. my first morning meeting with the ambassador and his staff, there was the topic of truck drivers that had been kidnapped. because bulgaria was in the coalition in supporting u.s. and the mission to get rid of saddam hussein, i was in iraq earlier for the invasion and we came back trying to build a stable democracy. bulgaria -- two bulgarian truck drivers were kidnapped. because bulgaria was in the coalition, president bush called to the president of bulgaria and said, we will do everything we can to save the lives of these hostages. he said cut two my boys are flying into baghdad. we will tell them everything the u.s. is doing.

the chief -- state department chief of staff look to the only military guy in the room and said, you are a navy seal. no call your friends. that is how i got tagged with the kidnapping stink in the military cut when you get handed that project. that one kidnapping ended up evolving into the next two years of my life and about 448 international kidnappings over that time, which basically i got a phd in islamic terrorism and why kidnapping is such an effective tool for them. i have been studying what i call hostage terrorism for almost 40 years. we went into iraq looking for weapons of mass destruction that we never found. but the real weapon was hostagetaking. al qaeda and other groups use that to great advantage, spreading terror and using

propaganda. what we are seeing today by hamas is virtually the same, just the next level. we have never seen anything to this scale and scope with the exception of the school crisis when a school was taken over by a number of terrorists. now we are seeing this on the world stage. the weapon of mass effect is hostagetaking and terrorist organizations and rogue regimes like north korea and russia, this is how they negotiate with the west. they grab someone from ideally the united states, as we are seeing, and it is a continuation on it. people need to understand hamas has been at this can happen game for a long time. when the marines went in for the second time, they found one of the hostages -- hostage holding sites where hostages had been killed and found a kidnapping

manual from hamas. the title on this document that read like a field manual for the army, the title stated, no need to hunt for lions when there are plenty of sheep to be had. the hamas grabbing grandparents, grandchildren, 85-year-old men and women, 10-month-old babies, this was in their strategy from the get go. look what we have now, the whole hostage crisis has brought a cease fire about and it is why they did it. host: how would you then characterize the exchange is taking place over the last few days? guest: reality is this negotiated settlement that has been ongoing in gaza through multiple parties but not israel

and hamas directly across the table, they are both sworn to wipe each other out. this is all done through third-party mediators, nongovernment organizations like the red cross and diplomats and all sides have put pressure on hamas and israel and you can be sure the idf do not want to the cease fire because they want momentum. which is why hamas grabbed these hostages. they are there only bargaining chip in this process in the war, that and public opinion. the cease fire has gone better than expected cut to be honest, because it is such a fragile situation. the fact that we are going in speaks to the fact the getting these hostages out is critical for israel and the palestinians want to get prisoners back that have been held in israeli jails. it is a marriage of convenience

by two parties that are bitterly at odds, but it is doing better than i expected. host: we will ask you if you have questions for our guest concerning the exchanges and related matters. (202) 748-8000 if -- for democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans and independents. (202) 748-8002 for active and former military who want to get -- perspective on that. (202) 748-8003, you can use that number to also text us as well. are there rules of the road when it comes to hostage negotiation and are those being played out as you see what is going on currently? guest: we focused on hostage rescue. the hostage group had three parties. prevent future kidnappings and bring those response will to justice. we did get involved in some

backdoor negotiations, but our focus was hostage rescue. at the time, u.s. policy was we will not negotiate with terrorists. that has never been u.s. policy even though that was the presumed policy. our policy was we do not make concessions terrorism. when terrorist groups grab someone, they knew they could not go face-to-face to try to negotiate a settlement for that hostage. it did happen, but it was the exception to the rule. today, you have president biden talking about the cia going to negotiate this. blinken has made multiple trips. it has raised the stakes of the game, which is why hamas wrapped american hostages and why they are holding onto them my because -- there are 40 odd countries represented in the nationalities and those diplomats have been making trips to try to get their people out but the guy carrying the big stick is president biden. by making public statements

about his direct role in this, he has raised the price of admission to get these hostages out, at least the american side. it is a dangerous tight rope that we are seeing because only one american to my knowledge, a young child, whose parents were murdered on october 7, she just was released but she was the only american to date. there are no rules of how this plays. every hostage negotiation is different. both sides. it is a back and forth. we have seen the original start of the cease fire got extended and pushed back because of an airstrike going on, so this is -- both sides want certain demands and are having to make concessions. there is no one blueprint for hostage negotiation. every situation is different. what is going on in gaza and backdoor channels in egypt and

ohio -- doha half, -- doha, there has been nothing like it in previous history. host: you talked about the president making statements as far as negotiation. qatar is involved in this. why have they served a prominent role? host: this is not the first time -- guest: this is not the first time they have become the switzerland for the middle east. not our debt only are they banking for the middle east, they are off-limits. we have known that for years. money is coming out and financing terrorism around the world. you never hear about terrorist incidents in qatar or the gulf states. qatar is taking a lead role not only with al jazeera, started over 20 years ago, but they have

been doing this negotiation and have a strong relationship with the u.s.. they were central to get a release for five senior taliban and al qaeda leaders. this is not new territory for qatar. we know they are also good at protecting hamas leaders. many of them are billionaires living in qatar, so that is why qatar was a natural for this. they have a track record and history of accomplishing behind the scenes international settlements on hostage release. host: again, dan o'shea here for this conversation. you can call the line and send your thoughts. let's start with charles in florida. you are on with dan o'shea. caller: caller: i am a palestinian

american and i am pro a two state solution. i was in jerusalem when they signed a two state solution. i saw the arabs going into the israelis going into the arab sections in the arabs going to the israeli sections. everything was fine until an israeli killed bein.everyone was happy in israel and they went back to taking settlements and taking land. i was there when the palestinian kids were shot for throwing rocks. basically, they have 10,000 palestinian hostages in prison, half of them we know have no trial. the mothers were not there at the trials when the children were being arrested. some of the kids have been there seven or eight years. desperate people do desperate things. we need a two state solution. palestine used to have its own country where it can go and have

passports like other human beings. they are human beings. they are the loveliest people i've met and i have a lot of israeli friends that are super nice people. host: charles in florida. his point is the larger issue as far as land and things like that. we find ourselves in situations like this. guest: he is making good point. there is certainly once men -- one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. the palestinians have a grievance in the issue is a lot of detainees held without trial. i agree, is two state solution would be great but there have been four or five historic efforts to do that two state solution and in every instance, the palestinian leadership from yasser arafat to others, they walked away from that. i wish we could get to the two

state solution but the eye for an ongoing relationship between hamas -- i should say palestine and israel, continues this cycle of violence. i am no diplomat to do that kind of negotiation, but there is not one side to this story. he made a good case about where the palestinians are sitting. host: this is a viewer in nebraska, independent line, hello. caller: hi, good morning and thank you for having this discussion. now that hostages have been released, we have a cease-fire and things are going as well as we should have hope for but what happens next? what happens with the hostages, what is going on? what kind of plans are we talking about? thank you. guest: great question and that's

on the minds of many people. obviously, they are trying to extend the cease-fire and today's the last day. there is going to be continued pressure on netanyahu to extend this cease-fire. i believe they will conduct phase two of the offensive. i think they have to go into the south in the south is where we can presume most of the hostages have been taken and hamas has reconstituted itself to rearm and get ready for the next phase of this. i think there will be a resumption of the offensive but this first cease-fire was successful and it has created a blueprint for the future and i believe we will see a series of offense of -- offensive cease-fires. hamas has these hostages. that's the only chip they had to keep them alive so this will drag out because hamas has given

up a lot of hostages in the first stage of this but they were the easy ones, women and children. the next phase is military males . everyone in israel serves in the ief and it will get harder and harder and even innocence not connected to the fight, they will be a top bargaining chip so we are a long way from this crisis from being over, unfortunately. host: why is it harder among those two groups of people? guest: because they are the most valuable hostages to hamas. once the americans are released, president biden and his administration will put statements after the real pressure is on biden like netanyahu because american citizens are still being held. once the americans are released, the pressure will not be on biden and you'll see this drop off the headlines of nonstop coverage and that's why i'm very

critical of how the administration has made such a prominent accounting of the rule because it has only raise the cost of getting the americans home. host: put more value on them and negate additionally get -- and it makes more difficult to get them back. guest: in the past, presidents wouldn't talk about american hostages. that really upset a lot of families. i've lectured around the country and met families that had loved ones taken hostage. the biggest complaint was the fact that no one cared. we never heard from the government, we never heard from the administration. the president abandoned my husband or daughter or son. why that was the plan is that when a president talks about a hostage, he raises the cost to bring that hostage home. the goal is to raise the value of the hostage in the eyes of the hostage taker, there humanitarian status as a woman

or a child or noncombatant versus raising their value, monetary value in their eyes. we have violated that in this case. it's hard in this age of 24, there is a reason to keep these negotiations in the shadows and the clandestine world. less is better than all this discussion in our news coverage. host: dan osha a joining us for this conversation. -- dan o'shea joining us for this conversation. caller: i want to make a point about qatar and how the middle east has settled for an attitude of terrorism which is accepted in the sense that qatar is aiding and abetting hamas. if i aided and abetted a criminal in my home, i am guilty of a crime.

then negotiate for that criminal in my home? no. qatar is committing a crime by aiding and abetting. we are pacifying them. it might be for the hostages but qatar is guilty of this. that's what has become the middle east, the norm that terrorism is ok. it's not. we should hold qatar liable for what they are doing. they should get these guys from hamas, either throw them out or get them. they are the leaders of a terrorist organization. they are not part of a political system in the middle east. they are terrorists. host: mr. o'shea? guest: there is no question that terrorist financing is part of the middle east and qatar as part of that. it's not a blackened world and i understand the man's position.

-- it's not a black and white world. these countries fund terrorism around the world. it's spread all over and off the coast of somalia and its spread to all of africa. there is a report that terrorism on the continent of africa is funded by kidnappings of foreigners, in particular the europeans that made it well-known publicly that they were paying multi-million-dollar ransoms. everyone is involved in the terrorism game. come -- the countries that finance the terrorism are paying hostages. all the countries were paying multi-million-dollar ransoms. yes, qatar's involvement so are other countries. the american government gave $6 billion to iraq and they said it's going to humanitarian aid. if you've got 6 billion to spend

on you minutes eight, what will they spend it on? this is being driven by tehran. tehran is fighting us through proxy which includes hamas and hezbollah. no one is innocent in this game of supporting terrorism, to be honest. i understand where the man is coming from but it's not a black and white subject and it's not as clean as you would like. host: this is rose in our again, independent line. -- in our again - oregon. caller: the united states is indirectly responsible for the situation we are currently in. we have given billions from its inception to israel, unrestricted. there is no excuse for this. the israelis have used this and have persecuted the palestinians.

knowing that they are being financed. they are using our financing. they are geniuses at defending themselves and constantly complaining that you cannot hold them accountable without being anti-semitic. they are masters at manipulation and it needs to stop and we need to stop giving them anything. this would be beneficial to world peace. host: you can respond to her, spit you may have heard over the last few days, some democrats on capitol hill are wondering if conditions on future aid to israel should be continued. guest: she brings up the same argument about qatar financing terrorism. i'm not disputing the u.s. gives the lion share of aid, economic

and military to israel but it's for their survival. the reality is, israel is surrounded on all sides by arab nations in muslim nations that have tried to wipe them out since 1948 and even before that. you can go back to the holocaust. the reality is simply this -- if hamas and the palestinians, if they put their weapons down, that would end this. if israel put their weapons down, they would be wiped off the face of the earth and that's the reality that's why the u.s. is in such strong support of israel because they are the only jewish state in the world they have a right to defend themselves which is why they are going into gaza today because of what happened on october 7. host: there is a viewer that draws historical comparisons when it comes to hostage negotiations.

guest: i go back to the 1979 situation at the embassy where for 444 days, there were hostages held by the iranian regime. president carter tried to launch a hostage rescue mission and it failed and it cost him his presidency. reagan came in with making statements of we don't negotiate with terrorists and that was the perception. that we don't negotiate with terrorists. making statements at the same time while colonel oliver north was involved in the iran-contra. they were trading arms for hostages between iran and iraq war. no one is immune from criticism. i am an equal opportunity harsh critic on either administration because they all played a role in getting us to where we are today. if we are talking about

precedents -- iran-contra was important because it involved the very players that iran-contra was dealing with were involved in the kidnapping are the same people today. 50-60 westerners, mostly diplomats and some journalists and a religious envoy trying to negotiate hostages were all grabbed and held, some as long as seven years. it was hamas, islamic jihad and hezbollah that were involved in this. it was a repeat of the same actors. their sons and grandsons were involved. no president has been immune from this scourge and no president has always made the right decision in this challenge dealing with hostage terrorism. host: talking about hostage negotiation and what he sees when it comes to hamas. you can call and tend us -- and send us a text at (202) 748-8003 .

let's hear from robin in new york. caller: thank you for your service. i have two quick questions. in terms of the hostages right now being held, how many different factions are actually holding the hostages? near the beginning i heard that the fbi hostage rescue team was mobilized. can you discuss that as well? guest: we note hamas and islamic jihad and there are other groups and some of them are unknown. in iraq, we've dealt with groups that al qaeda was obviously involved in kidnapping but we at one point had 80 odd different groups involved in the hostages. criminal and terrorist organizations are connected.

some neighborhoods in gaza and their own gangs probably have hostages we don't know exactly the number and a not privy to the intelligence of who is holding the hostages but it's more than just a mosque and more than islamic jihad. it could be five or six or 10. there is still 170 odd hostages being held. that means 170 odd different locations where these hostages could be held in separate locations. it's unknown the numbers. with regard to hostage rescue, hrt from the eight -- from the fbi, they are involved in the advising on this for sure. they are for u.s. to mr. response. they're not going to be doing and overseas hostage rescue mission. that would fall within the u.s. special operations command and joint special operations command specifically. we can presume they are in the region and on standby.

again, a hostage rescue would be very challenging in gaza for 1000 reasons. that option is always on the table but right now, getting error hostages home is through the cease fire process we've seen over the last five or six days. host: christina in michigan, you are next for our guest, go ahead. caller: thank you so much for taking my call. i'm a little nervous so bear with me. you mentioned the holocaust. i know all about the holocaust. i visited auschwitz in the 1970's. the palestinians and the arabs did not do the holocaust. the jewish people were supposed to be rewarded for the crimes committed against them but committing atrocities toward the palestinians doesn't make sense either. why in 1948 was only the israeli

state? why wasn't the two state solution made then and who controlled that? and what's happening on the west bank? that's occupied territory. the palestinians i think are being pushed back that we just don't call it killing them off. i'm so confused. i do resent when you cannot criticize the israeli government without being called an anti-semite. i am not an anti-semite. i just don't understand why something that was created in 1948, all these years later, is a bigger mess than it was back then. guest: i appreciate the call. i recommend you do some more research. there was a two state solution

in 1948. there was a division in that region between the jewish settlers and the arabs as well. as soon as it was announced, they came under attack. all the gains of israel's property has come about because they been attacked by their arab neighbors including the palestinians. there have been multiple attempts at a two state solution. israel has always been willing to sign that and it's always been rejected on the palestinian side. i suggest you do more homework and look at that. i don't dispute that the palestinians have a positive demand for a state of their own, but the west bank and gaza have not been occupied for years. i know gaza since 2005 and israel is not in the west bank presently. obviously, that has changed with what happened on october 7. i recommend you do some more history and get a better understanding of the challenges

on both sides of the question you asked. host: 3:00 this afternoon, there will be a hearing before the house foreign affairs subcommittee that will feature families of hostages held by hamas, giving their testimony and talking to legislators about it. you can see that hearing on c-span3 and see it also on c-span now and our website at c-span.org. i know that every country probably takes a different approach but for those who are released, what are the best practices for care after their release? guest: that process is called repatriation. it's bringing someone home to their country. it's a long process and sometimes a lifetime and it's obviously a medical check first. everyone coming out of gaza has been taken to an israeli hospital. get a complete medical checkup. it's the mental aspect of this especially for young children. they are potentially looking at a lifetime of counseling and a lifetime of trauma including

ptsd for probably all these hostages, frankly, especially considering some of the details coming out. the reality is they were held in a tunneling system without daylight probably for the vast majority of the time and probably limited food and they could probably hear bomb strikes so it was literally a 50 day absolute nightmare for these people and sadly for the hostages still there, the nightmare continues. it will likely continue for a lifetime of mental counseling for most of these people taken on october 7. host: robert is next in north carolina. caller: good morning, pedro and good morning commander o'shea. i joined the military in 1979.

this it was before the hostage situation in iraq -- in iran, rather. i understand exactly what you are saying because i see the axis of evil there. russia, china and iran have formed an axis of evil, if you will. we are not going to have president george bush who said previously -- we were not going to have a big war with armies going against one another. everything is going to be in the shadows. the increase of terrorism and grabbing hostages. for americans, i think we are a prime commodity going around these countries. if they snatch us, they know they will make a big political statement.

americans should think about where they go before they go to these various places in the world because i think we take our western ideas and overlay them on other countries and think they are just like us. they are not. we are a prime commodity. we have to be careful on our movements and in terms of the israeli-hamas war, i understand what israel wants. they were attacked. war is terrible. it's horrible. for those of us that served in the military, those that do continue to serve in the military, we know what will happen when you call us out or their are war atrocities. host: thank you. guest: first off, i appreciate your service. you hit a lot of points and i concur with your position on

everything you said. war is an ugly business. it is part of reality and you are right, there are proxies right now. we are trying to avoid the escalation of this conflict. there are players involved. the hostage crisis in gaza is just a microcosm of the bigger picture you alluded to. yes, there is iranian involvement, there is russian involvement. russian hostage was let go, one of the first males released because they are trying to take care of that. there are backdoor channels going on very strategically and yes, we are trying to prevent this thing from escalating. the situation could unravel beyond what's happening in gaza to a wider region. we have to be very careful of that because the last thing america wants is to get sucked back into the middle east after 20 years of our experience in iraq and afghanistan. i did over 10 deployments to

both and i'm retired now but i don't want to see the next generation of our brothers and sisters in uniform to go back to a place that's a never ending cycle. great question. host: tobias in new jersey, democrats line, your next up area caller: yes, thank you for taking my call. i just wanted to comment on the commandos who are starting to mobilize -- who are hostages in israel. those taken by hamas were taken under extreme circumstances. not everyone tends to acknowledge that those taken " prisoners" by israel are taken under an apartheid state. these are extreme circumstances, too. we would agree that anyone taken

as a prisoner back in apartheid south africa, that wouldn't have been justified or correct. it's the same thing occurring now and they are still currently taking prisoners as we try to negotiate these things. i want to understand what the end goal is. this is just a continuing cycle of taking more hostages, taking other hostages and then negotiating and further desperation. thank you. guest: you summarized why we are here today. you summarized why in my opinion, i'm not a diplomat and i study history about the two state rule but the very scenario you've laid out, an overwhelming majority of the world has turned against israel for making the argument you just said about the prisoners being held in israeli

jails. i'm not involved in that side of it. it's not my expertise and i will not comment on it but that's the cycle of violence that continues and why october 7 has now happened tenfold onto the residents of gaza and it will be another generation -- they will never forget which is why this ongoing conflict in the region has gone backward since 1948. thank you for the call. host: i know the cease-fire may be expected to end today but when it comes to the nature of hostage exchange, what would you want to see that would give you some confidence and may be a better path forward? what will give you pause as far as the exchange of hostages itself? guest: again, it's going to be challenging but one of the demands negotiated was that the red cross was going to be able to visit the remaining hostages and get accountability. i hope that happens.

i am fearful for everyone being held but i know not all the children have been released. there are still many elderly men and women. those people are without their medications and food and whatnot. the key is that these hostages survived until the next cease fire. i want to hopefully see there is an international concern on that side of this. that remains to be seen we don't know how long and if the cease-fire will get extended again or the idf offensive resumes again tomorrow. host: what happens if more americans are not released in the next few days? what does it mean for the united states? caller: guest: that this is going to be involved for the coming weeks and months ahead. this problem is not going away

anytime soon. host: dan o shea is a former navy seal. he's joining us to give us perspective on what's been going on between israel and hamas. thank >> c-span's washington journal, our live forum to discuss the latest issues in government, politics and public lsd. from washington and across the country. coming up thursday morning we will discuss congressional news of the day, including debates over u.s. aid to israel and ukraine and border security with texas democratic congressman al green. also, washington examiner congressional reporter talks about house gop leadership plans to bring a vote to the florida authorize an inquiry into president biden and the hills energy and environment reporter. preview cop 28, the annual u.n.

climate summit that opens this week in dubai. c-span's washington journal, join in the conversation live at 7:00 eastern thursday morning on c-span, c-span now or online at c-span.org. >> coming up live thursday on the c-span network, on c-span, the house gavels and for general speeches as -- at noon eastern time, giative business resumes with theil $6 billion as the u.s. agrees to release to irann september in exchange for the release of u.s. hostages. there may also be deten the resolution to expel republican new york representative george santos from congress at a vote to refer and impeachment reluon against dhs secretary alejandro mayorkas to committee for further consideration. on c-span two, the senate returns to work on judicial nominations for a district court in hawaii and the fifth circuit

cot appeal. and on c-span3 and that that :00 a.m., the satjudiciary committee meets to consider authorizingubenas for harlan croweling to the committee supreme court ethics investigation. also at 2:00 p.m., a hearg migration at the u.s. southern border and a so-called remain a mexico. he couldat our live coverage on the free c-anow video app or online at c-span.org. >> former secretary of state henry kissinger has died. he was 100 year -- 100 years old. his family fled the nazis and immigrated to the u.s. in 1938. he became a u.s. citizen five years later. he served in counterintelligence during world war ii and graduated from harvard college. in 1969 henry kissinger witch's chosen to pre-president richard nixon's national security adviser. he was appointed secretary of state 1973 and became the first to hold both roles at once.

continuing at secretary of state under gerald ford after nixon resigned. during his tenure he helped end the vietnam war. open relations with china and negotiate treaties with the soviet union. he was awarded the bronze star in 1945 for tracking down nazi secret police. in 1973 he was awarded the nobel peace prize for his role in negotiating a cease-fire in the end of the vietnam war. he also received a presidential medal of freedom in 1977. he passed away at his home in connecticut. henry kissinger, dead at the age of 100. >> for the second time on the house floor, republican representative marjorie taylor greene offered a representative to impeach homeland secretary after similar resolution was referred to the homeland security committee earlier this month. following her remarks il