now. host: good morning. it is wednesday, december 13. later today, we expect a house

on the impeachment inquiry. with the ukrainian president's visit and in the wake of that visit, we are asking viewers if it is in the u.s. national interest. phone lines are by political party. republicans are at (202) 748-8001. democrats at (202) 748-8000. independent at (202) 748-8002. you can also text us at (202) 748-8003. otherwise, catch up with us on social media on x. a very good wednesday morning to you. you can go ahead and start calling now. we will turn our attention to

the house floor of the today, formalizing the impeachment inquiry into president biden. the headline, zelenskyy pressing the u.s. to give more aid. standing next to president biden at a white house press conference. it was president biden speaking about what is at stake. president biden: the great people of ukraine have defied vladimir putin's will at every turn. partners with more than 50 nations in europe and the in pacific. proud, free, unless we walk away. the american people should be

incredibly proud of supporting ukraine's success. we will continue to supply equipment as long as we can. but without supplemental funding -- enemy putin is banking on the u.s. failing to deliver for ukraine. we must prove him wrong. host: that was president biden from the white house. we will put the right question on the screen for you. our numbers are split by political party. publicans at (202) 748-8001.

democrats at (202) 748-8000. independent at (202) 748-8002. the country that has given the most for ukraine during their war with russia. yesterday, mike johnson talked about the need for a transformative policy change when it comes to ukraine, if the house and republicans in the house support additional aid to ukraine. [video clip] >> ibm created that we stand with him against russia's invasion. i have asked the white house,

since the day i was handed the gavel and speaker, for clarity. we need clear articulation of the strategy to allow ukraine to win. so far, the response has been insufficient. what the biden administration seems to be asking for is billions of additional dollars with no appropriate oversight or strategy to win. i have also made very clear from day one that our first condition is about our own national security first. the border is an absolute catastrophe. we had 12,000 illegal crossings one day last week alone. almost 280 known terrorists have

been apprehended at the border. if you add the numbers up, almost 7 million people have been encountered at the border since president biden took office. this is twice the population of my state of louisiana. sentinel is the main cause of death. human trafficking and all the other terrible things come in the last few months alone, we have had more illegal crossings at the border. the american people see this and feel it acutely. it must be addressed. i have made this very clear from the very beginning. when i was handed to gavel, we need clarity and how we will have proper oversight of precious taxpayer dollars, and we need transformative change at the border.

sitting and collecting dust. i told him personally. i told the secretary of state and defense. these are conditions of the american people and we are resolute about that. it is not the house's issue right now. i implore them to do their job because it is urgent and we want to do the right thing. host: this is the headline this morning. failing to break the stalemate. this is 13 from a member of congress. zelenskyy is on capitol hill.

breaking down the white house office of management and budget has been sent to ukraine in various forms of aid. $27 billion for nonmilitary and non-humanitarian aid. that is the accounting from the white house. we had getting your thoughts on the phone lines, as usual, split by political party. eric, good morning. caller: good morning. it is not in our interest to

give anyone money. the debt needs to be paid to black people for reparations for the atrocities caused and still going on. they have no problem giving our money away. they had taking that money and getting rich. their family members are using that money so that -- that is what biden was doing and all those people were doing. getting that money from overseas, it is like giving away candy to these people. black people are suffering over here and we have nothing. do not have a minimum wage. you killed the tax credit.

white women -- it benefits them more. i used to be a democrat. close that border down. but the american citizen who put you in office, you are nothing for us. host: this is patty louisville, kentucky. caller: good morning. i wanted to talk about the aid to ukraine as well. i'm not sure a lot of people realize that if we do not help ukraine, russia will take over ukraine completely and move forward. the american people will have to watch a fight in a physical war. i do not think the people are being told the truth.

and our border? we do need to do something about our border. we know that. but this is not the answer. there have been many bills put forth for the reform of our border security. the house does not want anything that would be considered decent. i'm sorry. i'm out of words, but thank you. host: the latest on negotiations at the border. at a meeting that took place yesterday, signaling that they are willing to move on border

concessions to strike a last-minute deal among the new policy concessions was an offer for authority that would -- democrats favor the idea such that it can only be used at certain threshold. democrats also signal that to a large expansion of the tory -- it was not clear whether the offer only extended to single adults or migrant families. a key demand to advance this aid package for ukraine. we mentioned before about whether this would pass before congress breaks for the holidays. mitch mcconnell from kentucky

yesterday. here is what he had to say. [video clip] >> he can speak for himself, but he has apparently led that they are leaving at the end of the week. it is practically impossible, even if we reach an agreement to get it to the house before christmas. that does not mean it is unimportant. even though we have been for sizing the border, i want to remind everybody about the importance of ukraine. we heard from the president today and he is inspirational. they have thought one of our biggest adversaries for almost two years now. we have not lost a single person . nato has expanded. the japanese, the south koreans,

the australians all care about what happens in ukraine. we are not losing track of that. it is just that border security applies to us as well, and that is why we have emphasized that subjects of much the last few days. host: taking your phone calls on this question. is 80 ukraine in the u.s. interest? caller: hello. i do not think that we should be funding a war in ukraine when everything here is falling apart. my work hours went from 36 hours a week to 12. there is not going to be a christmas this year for my family. this is the worst. we have incompetent people in congress, and they want to push this war. nobody is joining the military.

you would have to be crazy to join the military. i am ex military and i was in the ranger battalion. and if i had a choice now, i would not even think about going into the military with this stupid war, with these incompetent people running our country. if you really want to get something done, get things done first in america we need help here. the american people need help, please. host: what kind of work do you do that you have seen your hours cut bank that? caller: i have no choice. i work for a pretty big corporation. no one is coming into by anything. it is really stressful. host: what kind of corporation? caller: i work at home center.

i do not want to promote any names, but they were a good place to work. it was busy when trump was president. i do not have enough money to even get to work. there is no relief anywhere. host: thank you for the call. joshua is in wisconsin. caller: good morning. i want to be brief. but i am a veteran as well. i sympathized what it is like to be in a war zone. i have been to iraq and i know what that is like, but i oppose funding ukraine for two reasons. number one, we were warned by george washington in his farewell address, do not get

involved in foreign politics. it is a bad idea. we have reaped the consequences of that for decades now. number two, there is absolute corruption on both sides. yes, that they're prudent is a horrible man, but zelenskyy is just as corrupt. when you have two bad guys involved, you let them fight it out. number three, we are broke. if i want to help homeless people in my area, that is great, but if i have my own family to take care of and we are flat broke? i do not have the money to help the homeless, no matter how important the call may be. i think we are being foolish with our money and quite frankly, i believe that is

biden's plan to bankrupt this nation. it is frightening because i do love my country and we are about to lose it. host: in that first clip, biden announced additional money in -- for aid for ukraine. you may be wondering how that money is coming in. the washington times story explaining where that money came from. president biden announcing that he has approved that money in need. it will include additional ammunition for artillery rocket systems.

anti-armor systems, artillery rounds, demolition munitions and armed ammunition. letting mr. biden pull weapons from stockpiles and sending them to other nations at war. it was one of the last security packages that the u.s. could provide ukraine, if it comes under drawdowns. this is harris at of tennessee. democrat. the question is, is aiding ukraine in the u.s. interest? caller: they are going to take the market over. they are slaughtering women and children over there. that is the truth. they are. and republicans have nothing else to run on.

we have not lost a boy in that fight over there. they would go to turkey and other places and we will lose american soldiers over there. we are turning our back on people who are slaughtering women and children. there is no other way around it. the republicans are just doing vladimir putin's bidding for him. host: this is lester. good morning. caller: my concern -- i agree with the spending money.

thousands of people are homeless . you know, it is sad what is going on. and i feel that what is going on over there -- the gentleman who was just talking about -- i have news for you. the gentleman before -- host: this is william and wall street journal saying, not just ukraine, but biden needs a deal. his chairmanship of the board of relations committee as the chief

negotiator with mitch mcconnell has prepared him for this moment. the future hangs in the balance right now, as does aydin's presidency. defeat in ukraine would undermine the rest of his reputation as an effective steward. the last thing he needs is another failure here. this is pleasant grove, alabama. caller: thank you for taking my call. i find it amazing that when we were under stress, the ukrainian military stood with us in iraq and afghanistan. they were bewildered by the pullout that happened under joe biden.

we have a nuclear force here in the u.s., and i do not think ukraine has ever used its nuclear weapons when they gave up and we guaranteed them their freedoms. but now, we still have our nuclear weapons. they are pointed at the empire trying to take over the world. it bewilders me how americans can say that they support someone who does the things that the soviet union, russia or whatever they -- you want to call them has done. another place that really interests me is the state of israel. i thought they were going to be more democratic but now there is a religious group that goes all

the way across the middle east and now they are attacking. they are attacking americans, everybody. they are attacking in the red sea. we have republicans to say, that is not our problem. we will fight for american rights. if they cannot stand what american ideals are, do not think they know what america is. i wish the republican people would vet their candidates.

i do not vote for a party. i though for the person. -- vote for the person. in 2024, i believe the right to vote is between the voter and the counter. that is my opinion. i think my opinion should be held by me. host: good morning. caller: ok. the correct figure that i have heard is what we have given to ukraine. host: we will not fuss over that. caller: we have given them a lot of money. i believe that with $111

billion, not all of it is going directly to the war effort. listen, i am all for supporting them, but not while we have a wide open border, bringing dangerous people into our country. even with the people who turn themselves in, none of them have any documentation. we are bringing dangerous people into the country. do you think these people are just deciding one day that they are going to come to the u.s.? a lot of these people are being sent here from china to the border, to cross into the u.s. do you think that is a good thing? i think we should worry about

protecting the citizens of the u.s. first, then, i am all for helping ukraine, but for god's sake, close the border. host: this was senate majority leader chuck schumer the other day on the debate over border security and additionally need for ukraine. [video clip] >> we welcome president zelenskyy to the u.s. senate. it was a powerful, enlightening meeting. the message was direct. ukraine will win the war with russia. if no more aid is approved, vladimir putin will win. ukraine, the u.s. strength as a

credible ally -- they are all hanging in the balance. president zelenskyy urged that we need to pass it quickly because if we do not come we send a signal to the whole world that we are at the end any ukraine. if ukraine falls, it would be a historic and colossal tragedy. if russia is victorious, future generations will member this as a moment of shame for the u.s. this is a moment when the president in need calls on our help and we must rise to the occasion. if we abandon them, we will all pay a price. the price will not be tomorrow, but it will be in the months and

years. everyone who voted against aid to ukraine will have to live with it. this is a time for republicans to be serious about reaching an agreement. serious is the word that we are saying to our colleagues. it is not a time for one side to demand policy is that they know are unrealistic and then say our -- our way or the highway. they must meet us at the middle. they need to show us that they are serious. host: chuck schumer yesterday on the floor of the senate. our southern border is an international hot pot for terrorists. there must be solutions to this deadly and dangerous --

it is coming up. about 15 minutes, people change our focus to the floor vote in the house, formalizing the impeachment inquiry into president biden. we will take that question for 45 minutes as well. for the next 15 minutes, continuing on the package ukraine. >> good morning. we give billions of dollars to ukraine. we need money here in this country. there are homeless people. i am a disabled senior.

i have no transportation. i am struggling. what biden needs to be doing is working on a cease fire in gaza. we need a cease fire a gaza. i am against aid to ukraine. writing needs to be working on a cease fire gaza. host: good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i believe that we should fund ukraine. if you want to speak like the trumpeters -- i think that

russian money, russian disinformation is still out. the way people think, they do not have time. if they actually look at where they were from world war i and world war ii, the other part of the story is that it was timid. i do not understand why we would put more pressure on putin now. i do not understand that part.

the other part is benjamin netanyahu. especially when obama was there. i remember joe biden to visit. they really divided our politics. they knew that all of this was going to happen. they might have let it happen, so we would have a reason to do what they are doing now. that narrative could get out there. but intellectually, if you look at it, if you come to some other

conclusion, you tell me. host: is aiding ukraine in the u.s. national interest? caller: i do not think that it is. we will all be speaking russian, if we do not continue to aid them, but it is amazing how nobody talks about the russian kids that die and russian soldiers. i have heard about israelis, the people in palestine, the palestinians and ukraine. that no americans have shed blood and how we should be proud of that. but we are as involved in that war as anything. for chuck schumer to say that it

would be a colossal mistake not to support them? if russia takes over crimea, which has gone back-and-forth with ownership for century. that we should wheel and deal, and then he will take care of the border of this country? i do not understand. where is the blood on chuck schumer's hands for the death of think -- he should be ashamed of himself, then that has to be healed and deal become a on our border. thank you for your time and have a good day. host: it was president

zelenskyy's third trip to washington. the front page of the wall street journal has a picture of president zelenskyy standing next to resident biden in the oval office. they moved later in the afternoon. here is what president zelenskyy had to say to reporters at the press conference. [video clip] >> we have been in a full-scale war, the biggest since world war ii, fighting for freedom. no matter what vladimir putin tries, he has not won the victories. ukraine can now tackle the russian dictatorship so that our children and other nations will

not have to sacrifice lives. our partnership is stronger than any russian hostility. host: that was president zelenskyy yesterday at the white house. taking your questions before we turn to the impeachment inquiry vote. caller: we should give money to ukraine and not to israel after they -- i believe that ukraine

should come first. host: you think that aid for ukraine should come first? caller: yes. there war started first. host: independent, good morning. caller: it is not in america's interest. when chuck schumer said it would send a signal that we are wavering, chuck schumer is sending a signal that he is correct and he does not even realize it. it is not in our interest. it is a war that they cannot win. zielinski met with the

industrial complex and it really says it all. the dark forces of autocracy, well, there is an american. that is the dark forces. host: republican, good morning. caller: we are only as strong -- america has grown week because of government dependency. europe -- this is something that europe should be taking full responsibility for. there was a report that germany's military is in bad shape.

look, free college. five weeks vacation a year europeans have. europeans have free health care. they have all those things that are not taking care of their military. they are not a strong ally for us. russia lost 87% of their ground troops. ukrainian money is being trickle down through the military. many leaders are getting kickbacks from this money. we need to support ukraine, but we need to have a plan. we need a plan and an exit strategy. host: let me get your thoughts

on this. the foundation for the defense of democracy making a case against isolationism. here is the most recent history. barack obama ordered a complete withdrawal. in syria, crossing the redline, also without serious consequences. in august 2021, president biden chose to capitulate to the taliban. does this track record influence vladimir putin as he considers the risks and rewards in 2022? what do you think? caller: i think we need strong

allies. south korea is not strong. the plan is not strong. we have to defend our country. but yes, we do need to get involved. this is not 1776. we do need to have military around the world. afghanistan -- we do need to protect our allies so that we can defend the world. host: a couple more calls on this topic before we focus on the impeachment inquiry. your thoughts on aid to ukraine? caller: good morning.

i'm tired of the u.s. being big daddy for the rest of the world. it is time to take care of their own children. that border issue is going to let trump win. it's i'm just saying that this is going to become so huge during our election time that trump could actually win off of this. something needs to be done. i'm really tired of us playing big daddy to everybody else. and we are over here screaming for help. caller: thank you very much for having me. i would like to remind people that when this war started, the dictator of belarus pulled out a

map and showed the plan. poland is a part of nato. that is easy way to nuclear war. the border matters a lot less. i listened to the talk yesterday and it pounded like he was talking about having less legal immigration and cutting back on legal immigration is not something that a lot of republicans ran on. you could reinforce the border and have that be a separate issue than what they are apparently talking about. an earlier caller mentioned killing a lot of people in the u.s. and biden trying to deal with that.

i would say to double check on that. that needs to be addressed. my own senator from wisconsin, and his debate talked about the periphery of the people of ukraine. he is going back on what he talked about during his election , removing a redeeming virtue of his. i think that is something that a lot of people should think about. still three sometime in the future were basically abandoning them to torture. vladimir putin does not want his soldiers to come back home. the reverse is been happening to a lot of ukrainian soldiers.

host: we want to turn our attention to what is happening on the house floor, the vote to formalize the impeachment inquiry. this is the formal floor of the. this is not a vote on impeachment itself. they have scheduled this vote today. this is his op-ed piece. why we need a biden impeachment inquiry, a several hundred word story laying out the investigation with his opinion on why his opinion needs to take place. they also addressed questions with reporters yesterday on capitol hill. [video clip] >> you said we are going to follow the facts.

this has been trumped up for so long. that if you guys do not vote in the next few months, that is it. haven't you been bent over the barrel little bit? ? following the constitution. i have served on an impeachment team twice. this is not really something that they covered in law school. if you look at the constitution, it is a heavy authority given to the house. that is where the power lies. i think it might be the heaviest power that we have, a serious business. the impeachment inquiry is important because we have come to this impasse where we are following where they lead.

so, we have no choice but to fulfill. it is a legal decision. people have feelings about it one way or the other. we have to solve the to where it takes us. i know that people are frustrated sometimes with the time that is being invested in this, but this is the way that the founders anticipated. there should not be anything such as a snap impeachment. this is the opposite of that and that is why people are getting restless. if you follow the constitution and do the right thing, you cannot rush it. >> there is not an expectation

because that is what they were elected to do during the majority. >> but we are bound to do is to follow. >> to follow up on that, if you decide not to impeach the president, would you be comfortable with that decision? >> we are not going to prejudge the outcome of this. we are following the law. i will hold to that. that is my commitment. host: in light of today's vote, we are asking, do you support or oppose the inquiry? if you support it, (202) 748-8000.

if you oppose a, (202) 748-8001. the house is sent to me at 10:00 a.m. today, considering the impeachment vote in taking an informal vote later today. the vote is both a consequential step and a formality. kevin mccarthy made that fact official when he announced in september that the inquiry was without a former -- formal floor houseboat. among more than a dozen mainstream conservatives, skeptical about pushing forward. by taking the keys to their gop colleagues, there is no harm in whether the president might have played a role. writing in today's new york

times, taking your phone calls again. if you support or oppose the impeachment inquiry. plenty of callers to get to already. caller: a great show that you guys put on for us out here. your moderators are really terrific. host: we have more coming today, so we hope you sit with us. caller: i will. i love this program. any household or any business knows that you cannot spend more than you bring in. if you do, you go broke. our government is the only business i know of that spends -- continually spends more than they make. we are busted in this administration and the federal reserve, that of letting the gdp

grow and not sis pressing business -- that is what they are doing. you have to grow your way out of the debt. you cannot shrink the economy. that does not work. as far as impeachment, i do not quite understand why republicans are trying to impeach. yes impeach the only person who has a shot at winning the next election. i do not the republicans can win anyways because their message on abortion is not good. the last two elections, the economy has been bad. we have had foreign wars and they lost last two elections. the only person they have a shot at beating would be biden, and i do not think that would happen

either. host: did you think that we would be talking about impeachment again so soon? caller: do i think biden was involved? yes. but it is his son and i think anybody might have done the same. i'm not sure, but why impeach the one gentleman who might be able to be because of his advancing age or policies? republicans do not have any direction. they cannot put forth the message to people in the right way. host: this is amy in highland park, illinois. go ahead, amy.

caller: hello. i cannot believe that the previous caller called biden a gentleman. he is a criminal. they are a criminal family and running a criminal government. they are tainted with criminality. everything is just illegal under biden. he must be impeached. it is official and legal, as opposed to the trump impeachment. thank you. host: this is jm in the washington post, writing that whether republicans should dare -- he writes, -- it does stink.

only a democrat would believe that it is completely normal and above board for companies to pay more than $10 million for unspecified services while he was vice president, but he writes, this is the sort of matter that is left to the voters. let them make the call. another impeachment effort will break down along partisan lines. asking you, if you say you support and if you say you oppose. if you are not sure. caller: this is aaron again.

i am not sure, exactly. the impeachment process has now been weaponized and turned into a political puzzle. so with the trump impeachment, there were clear, identifiable violations, twice, so he has been the only president to be impeached twice. when looking at the biden impeachment, of course we would like those things to come to light, but when we are talking about payments, donald trump did not pay his taxes. they left george santos in office along. it is strange how we are utilizing these political tools while we have 70 corrupt people in politics who are siding with their team.

that is the way i feel about it. host: this is a call from florida. good morning. john, go ahead. i think we lost john. caller: good morning. my did you all switch the numbers from 8000 to 8001? it should have stayed 8000 rather than switching it over to 8001. it just confuses people. host: i appreciate the feedback, but we are switching up the lines because we had a different question and we are just trying to facilitate a conversation. caller: the whole thing is

nothing but a benghazi thing. they did not have any evidence. same thing they are trying to do. same thing they did with hillary clinton. host: this was house oversight and government reforms a little earlier this month. he is leading one of the three committees leading the impeachment vote. this is what he had to say to cbs news about the impeachment inquiry. [video clip] >> are you opening it because you think you have evidence that he committed high crimes or misdemeanors? or is this about the process

because you cannot compel your witnesses to appear? >> we are saying it is about process. we got a letter from the biden family attorney implying that he would not come because this was not a legitimate impeachment inquiry that had not been certified for a vote. but with respect to evidence, i think we have had evidence for a long time. evidence about president biden's involvement and about the bidens taking billions of dollars from china. we have accumulated a lot of evidence. we have been very transparent about what we have found. host: what was on nbc news with

meet the press. taking your phone calls. the biden impeachment inquiry. there will be a formal floor vote later today on that topic. mr. james in harvey, louisiana. what do you think? caller: good morning. i'm not quite sure for several reasons. thank you for being so informative. i watch the yesterday, and if te impeachment is going to proceed down party lines just like the rules committee procedures, even though it is a legal procedure, it is going to be misused. but it is how you use it.

if i pick it up and pointed at you, it is dangerous. these guys are looking at the same information, but some people are saying it is evidence and some people are saying it is not. it is right down party lines. even though they are using, as the speaker says, a legal tool, it is obviously political. clean this up. host: that his chains and the louisiana talking about the rules committee vote, house rules committee say rule on any bill that comes to the floor, they had that meeting yesterday on this formalizing the impeachment inquiry. they ended up voting 9-4 along party lines to move that built the floor and that is what set up today's vote. here is a little bit from yesterday's house rules committee debate. >> according to the indictment, hunter engaged in a four-year scheme in which he chose not to pay at least $1.4 million in

federal taxes he owed for tax year 2016-2019 and to evade the subsequent taxes per 2018 when he filed false returns. ok, my colleagues on the others of the aisle want us to believe that asome standalone problem with the present's son. but here's the problem. four months ago, the same david weiss we talked about tried to bury taxes against hunter biden. that is what happened. at that point offering a no jail plea agreement on two votes that were unimportant misdemeanors. pretty much out of the ordinary. and the problem with that is that now, suddenly he has moved to the other direction because a judge called the deal out. he couldn't rationalize the plea-bargain that he gave hunter, and now he's making the case in the very indictment that

he just put forward. the fact the matter is there has been an extraordinary amount of stonewalling. this is one example of thousands that we could get into and this is why the inquiry matters. this is why we should proceed with the inquiry. there are other issues that we could get into, but you dismiss it and just put it aside and say there has been all of these investigations and there has been no issues raised is just completely contrary to what anybody with eyes reading news accounts knows his occurred and looking at the indictment was presented last week would understand. i yield back. >> the gentleman is recognized, appreciate the gentleman engaging. donald trump asked you, no, demanded that you be here today to bring this to court. that is why we are here. dozens of republican the debt -- publicans and even fox news hosts bluntly admitted there is no evidence to support impeaching president biden and

have lamented that pursuant impeachment is not good for the country. over the course of this year-one fishing expedition, to get this is not beginning today, you've been doing this for over a year, house republicans have poured over tens of thousands of pages of documents and financial records provided by the administration, have interviewed witnesses for thousands and hours, yet nothing, nothing they have revealed has supported their wild conspiracy theories and allegations. nevertheless, here we are. host: that was massachusetts democrat jim mcgovern and chip roy, republican from texas, their exchange yesterday in the house rules committee. expect more debates on this issue before a vote to formalize the impeachment inquiry happens today in the house. john in indiana, good morning. what do you think about the vote? caller: i think they shouldn't

be doing nothing to get this country going, not just impeaching people. it's not the right thing to do. we need to unite the country, not divided. host: how do unite the country? what is one thing we can do? caller: you've got to compromise. you can't just stall. that is all the republicans want to do, stall. thank you very much. host: this is miami, good morning. >> caller: good morning, good morning. what i wanted to say was how did joe biden make so much money? he was always known as the poorest man who worked there. now all of a sudden they have millions.

he bought that house on the beach in delaware with cash. $2 million. do they think we are stupid? when he testified, he said they asked him what kind of business was hunter biden running? what were they keeping? what did they have to sell or whatever? and he said -- i don't remember the name now. but he said that what they had was joe biden. giving shavers to everyone, including ukraine. he is shameful, he is senile,

and he shouldn't be there. host: miami, florida. this from today's washington times, noting that republican lawmakers who are conducting their impeachment inquiry has scheduled a closed-door deposition with the son of the president today, ordering him to appear under subpoena. hunter biden will be in washington, d.c. today but he has not agreed to testify. he has instead offered through his lawyer to answer congressional russians at a public hearing. republicans rejected that offer earlier this month and said the president's son is compelled to appear for a closed-door deposition for he will face more intense scrutiny by committee lawyers then he would public airing of lawmakers. the president's sons lawyer has raised concerns that the committee could selectively leak the closed-door testimony and harm his client, explaining why

he wouldn't be appearing there. that is also scheduled to take place today. this is ohio, you are next. lost him. this is rob in new york. caller: good morning, john. i was kind of on the fence about this whole thing but the more i think about it, joe biden is so crooked. this money that is coming from china, it is going to his address in delaware. they got the check from his brother, $200,000 for loan repayment when there was no paperwork to begin with. it is all a joke. this is horrible. and look what they did to the border. our border is still wide open. like other callers have said, we've got people here that we don't even know who they are. we are getting ready to have 9/11-style attacks every week. this is going to be a very bad year and who is to blame? joe biden and the democrats. host: wire you on the fence on

this issue for a long time, then? >> all the contrasting reports that we hear. c-span, abc, cnn, you hear one story. when you go to alternative media, pd probably never would have heard of, you get more of the truth. so i've been looking more that direction and everything i've seen, it looks like the media is holding water for this character biden and the fbi is carrying the water for him, covering up all this illegal activity. if you have 20 corporation laundering $20 million to your grandkids, i would be wanting to investigate you. host: who are the outlets that you think i haven't heard of? caller: let's see here, how about alex jones, everybody has heard of him. let me see, epic times is fantastic. breitbart. go watch some videos on breitbart or rumble where these americans, good americans are down on the border and there's

15,000 right now african men coming over the border in arizona. there's not a woman in sight. and what does the biden administration do? they want more money so they can speed the flow of these people coming in. our country is over unless people stand up and we need our military right back here to be the department of defense and defend us from this invasion. host: louisville, kentucky, good morning. you are next. caller: i definitely support inquiry. there are too many questions not to get answered. you have to follow the money and the money is coming because of vice president-then biden. they need to be some questions answered. host: this is karen, new jersey, go ahead. caller: hi, good morning, thank you for airing this wonderful show. i'm a democrat. i support -- the reason being

that -- host: you support the impeachment inquiry? caller: yes, i do. the reason i do is because until we start doing the right thing and following the constitution, no matter what party they are, no matter what country we are in, i think human beings are smart enough to understand, we are connecting the dots. there is so much corruption. i don't care who it is, but we need to move forward, follow the money, follow the facts and clean up the corruption that has grown so much in our nations capital and get rid of these people once and for all. i mean, we are moving. we are moving toward doing that and we've got to stick with it and not give up. so i totally support. i liked joe biden in many ways, but what is coming out -- and i have started listening to other sources of media.

blackrock and vanguard own most of the media subsidiaries in this country, and they are putting forward a narrative that they want us all to believe in, and it is not true. listen to the previous caller. breitbart, there are different sources that are actually getting the truth at their to all of us, all americans. host: that is karen, a democrat in new jersey on why she supports an inquiry. this is mitt romney, republican from utah on "meet the press" yesterday on his thoughts on impeachment inquiry. >> have you seen any evidence that president biden has committed high crimes and misdemeanors? >> no, i don't see any evidence of that at all. i think before you begin an

impeachment inquiry, you want to have some evidence, some inclination that there has been wrongdoing and so far there is nothing of that nature provided. >> so you oppose the impeachment inquiry? >> if i were in the house, i would vote against it unless they were able to bring forward evidence to suggest there were a high crime or misdemeanor committed but so far that hasn't been the case. fortunately for most people, we are not responsible for the misdeeds that our kids and grandkids and great grandkids. president biden's son hunter has obviously been a very unsavory person and has had some extremely damaging personal things including a drug habit and so forth. that is not president biden and we are not going to impeach someone because of the sins of their kids. host: this is laverne in south carolina. good morning, you are next. caller: good morning.

host: what do you think, laverne? caller: i'm just calling because i'm trying to understand this. everybody wants to impeach biden, and everybody's hollering impeachment, impeachment, impeachment. ok, you were already trying to impeach trump. i'm confused because if you're going to be the impeachment, they didn't impeach trump, they are trying to impeach biden. i really think the democrats and the republicans are on the same ship. going for the same thing. host: what are they going for, laverne? caller: they are impeaching trump. they tried.

the insurrection. he either did it or he didn't. do what you are going to do if you didn't. biden, he didn't or he did. what are we waiting on to push this? everybody else is in jail. if you do marijuana, you go to jail and marijuana is legal in some states and not in others. but this impeachment, you can't get out of jail after you did marijuana as a felon but these politicians, running these impeachments, they taxed it. me, i'm a veteran, a navy veteran and i've been fighting for benefits and everything. no help. and i didn't want to say this, but let me say this while i've got you on the phone. i was home in clark county, nevada. and as i was homeless, they were

moving ukrainians in here and giving them housing and giving them money. but i'm homeless on the street and a veteran from the usa. host: are you still homeless today? caller: well, i'm straight today. but i've been jumping through the hoops. host: what helped you the most to move from homelessness to where you are today? caller: say again? host: what helped the most for you to move from homelessness to where you are today? caller: not the government, it wasn't the government. it wasn't the agencies. it was family and friends. because i had to leave. i mean, i'm in limbo right now between that right now. july i just came out of homelessness and everybody is

worried about the insurrection, but nobody did nothing. let the man run again. they let trump run again, why? if he did the insurrection, and if i would give any punishment for doing what he did, it wouldn't have lasted this long. host: this is penny, brooklyn, new york. you are next. penny, are you with us? caller: i'm with you. i'm not for this impeachment. when trump was impeached twice and people are saying that that was a hoax, did they forget that 34 people out of his campaign were indicted? mother didn't want to indict a sitting president. and barr who came in limited him as to where he could go with

trump, so i don't understand why these people are not seeing that. with joe biden, what his son did has nothing to do with them. they've been investigating this for so long, they should know. all they do is put out misinformation. no one knows if it is true or not. they say joe biden is so corrupt. you don't know that. all you listen to is alex jones and those people who have already been charged with buying. i don't get the american people. you listen to the stations that you want to hear that he is guilty, and then you say ok, he's guilty. it makes no sense to me whatsoever what is going on here. trump does things in your face and you still don't want to admit that this man is a liar. that's all i have. host: that is penny in brooklyn. about 10 minutes left in this extended for segment of washington journal today asking you if you support or oppose a

impeachment inquiry, a formal houseboat on that. every member of the house will have a say on that today. later this afternoon, the house is in at 10:00 a.m. eastern voting on that resolution. usa today, the reporter comparing the resolution that will be on the floor of the house today with the formal resolution on former president donald trump's impeachments, and this is donald trump's first impeachment. both resolutions, the biden one and the trump one describe proceedings for the committee at the center of the impeachment inquiry without intelligent committee that led to the trump inquiry back in 2019 while the houtz oversight committee is a leading committee on this inquiry. but the header of democrats 2019 resolution read this way. "open and transparent investigative proceedings by the committee on intelligence.

that is in contrast with the house republicans this time, investigative proceedings by the committee on oversight and accountability, noting the lack of that open and transparent wording at the beginning. asked democrat 2019 effort required that the house intelligence committee hold open hearings. the chair of the committee shall designate an open hearing or hearings pursuant to this section. but house republicans version this time around swaps the word shall for may, leaving optional to hold hearings. in another instance, house democrats resolution back in 2019 require the intelligence committee to issue a or on its findings, using the word directed. the permanent committee is directed to issue a report setting forth its findings. thousand public and resolution this time around says only that house oversight committee open may" issue a report, making it

optional for the committee to convey its findings to the public. that is usa today on the differences between the 2019 impeachment inquiry resolution and this time around. this is arlington, virginia. caller: hello, good morning. about the impeachment, i think they should still go through with it but we should just keep focused on the impeachment. i doubt anything happens to him just like it did with trump. at this point they have too much money, they have too many great lawyers. i don't think there is any way around than getting in trouble in america unless you murder somebody or you are caught doing child pornography. other than that you're not going to go to jail when you're that rich. our focus should be more on who is going to be running for the next election.

when we have both trump and biden? neither one is a great candidate for america. i think personally, they are both too old to be president. that should be more of our focus. who is going to be the next president of the united states? and figure out the ukraine and the palestinians. that should be the focus. host: this is susan in florida. good morning you are next. caller: good morning. i was going to discuss with you the fact that the article that you just referred to in usa today kind of sums up what is going on with republican already. -- with the republican party. i don't think there should be an impeachment because they never even vetted trump. where is the transparency? there isn't any, and it is very sad for me to realize that.

this is a sham, and if i was -- if the congress was a major corporation and i was in charge of deciding if people are going to be fired, i would say hey, you are not doing your job, you are not earning your money. you are walking in circles and trying to create smokescreens for the american public. there are so many important issues. yes, they keep crying that the border is important, but why don't you put your noses to the grindstone and solve the problem? because you've been crying about it for decades. do something. earn your money. and the irony of all this is the fact that these people get pensions. they don't deserve pensions. and there should be some kind of accountability.

they actually vote on the races. where is the accountability in terms of that? that would never happen in a major corporation in the united states. and if they had any access to history, they would realize that they ought to be dealing with the fact that ukraine is important to fund. israel is important to fund, because look what is happening with iran, russia, and china. there is the new access of people, folks. host: can i ask you about voting on their own raises? when they do that, if they do vote on a raise, it applies to the next session of congress, so there is an election in between when they would vote on a raise and when they would get a raise. do you think that is enough of a safeguard for your concern? caller: no, i don't think it is.

there should be more safeguards. a lot of these people that are in congress, they are raising money by saying outlandish things. it's absurd to me. they shouldn't be allowed to do that. it is all about let's say something outlandish so somebody will pick up the soundbite and then they can earn money. look at the former president. why didn't the republican party vent at him? he actually didn't pay contractors when he tried to go into atlantic city and do that. that to me as somebody who was a swindler. host: susan in florida. about five minutes left in this opening segment. this is steven, connecticut, good morning. caller: good morning, happy holidays. host: same to you. caller: i agree with one third

of everything that that woman just stated. host: one third? caller: she is correct in referencing to them voting for raises. i agree with that and i agree with the pension issue. i think there should be a term limit, and i think we should do a background check of all of the schumer's and all the senators who happen millionaires and how they've made their money. and also, i just want to mention that joe biden should be completely ashamed of himself. that's what my mother would've said. he's like the mafia. he goes to church, he prays, and he made millions of dollars in money. so i'm very happy about this being revealed, but i feel bad for all the democrats. it's going to break their hearts finding out what a he was. and in reference to what she stated about trump being petted, i mean, i can run for president. i'm a born and raised american and a world war ii veteran. i'm born in america, i could run for president. there is no vetting on elections

and things of that nature. all that revealed while you are running for election. but yes, joe biden should be completely ashamed of himself. that is the word to be used, and we are going to be paying for this, for all the millions and billions of dollars that has been fraudulently stolen. i also feel bad for the veterans. the veteran you are interviewing, the poor guy protected our nation and we are not even supporting him. i have venezuelans across the border, purchase a house across the street from my house. they bought a brand-new home. they came over the border and i don't know how they got their money, and they bought a home in america. i wish i can understand that, it is terrible. host: did they come over legally or illegally, what do you know about them? caller: part of the family came here illegally and the family in

the united states helped them and they bought a home and they are living on our medical benefits, a free phone and all those other things that we grant these people that come over the border, and now they live in a house. my kids can't even buy a house who were born and raised here. host: do you talk to your neighbors much? caller: i just recently met with them, they are wonderful people, but it is just the point. you know what they said to me? i'm going to sell my house. we want to buy your house. and you're going to give us a good deal. and i'm like, i'm not going to give you a good deal, you just cross the border for free and i'm paying for your benefits. i'm going to get all the money, not to give you another handout. so they are nice people, but respect our nation. my dad went into world war ii at 16 years old and fought for this country, he's rolling in his grave and here we are, open borders, giving money to all these nations for their wars,

and we are not protecting our veterans and their country. people forget when you give money to ukraine and all these nations, they give back to the party who gave the money. so that is a big fraud and getting back to biden, you should completely ashamed of himself and i feel bad for the democrats who are going to find out the truth and have their hearts broken in the bottom line is when you fraudulently put money, extort money to 14 different companies, and it trickles back to me tax, that is fraud. and that will happen here, we are revealing it. host: time for maybe one more call. this is keith in kansas, that line for folks who aren't sure about this impeachment inquiry. why? caller: well, all i know is i've checked all the videos that have some mention of biden.

to me, biden is a total criminal. he's been a criminal all along. and i've checked the videos of the fraudulent election. i've checked all the videos. host: what are the videos? caller: the videos. just like from the news, you know. the counting over and over. the recount. it's just -- i know they are criminals. and i'm glad that his darkness is finally coming to light. host: you are on the line for folks who aren't sure about the inquiry, sounds like you are pretty sure. caller: well, yeah, i'm glad he is being impeached because they are destroying america. i mean, you go shopping, everything is up. everything.

they spend tax money on -- they are just blowing it, giving it away. they don't realize it is tax money. those are gifts from the government. host: keith in kansas, our last collar in this first segment. stick around, plenty more to talk about this morning. coming up, we will be joined by california democrat, a member of the intelligent and poor affairs committee. we will talk about aid to ukraine and israel and also that floor vote today on the impeachment inquiry. and later, the president and ceo of the count will justice will join us for a discussion on crime trends in the united states. we will be right back. ♪ >> wrote the best of c-span q&a. the great pretender, about a

1973 experiment led by a stanford psychologist that was conducted to test the legitimacy of psychiatric hospitals in america. the experiment, and the impact on the psychiatric profession. sunday night on c-span's q&a. you can listen to q&a and all of our podcasts on the mobile laugh. announcer: a healthy democracy doesn't just look like this. it looks like this. where americans can see democracy at work. when citizens are truly informed, our republic thrives. get informed straight from the source on c-span. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. from the nation's capitol, to wherever you are. the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span, powered by cable.

>> traveling over the holidays? make out podcast part of the playlist. listen to all of c-span's podcast featuring nonfiction books in one place. featuring multiple episodes with critically have been acclaimed authors discussing history, biographies, current events and culture from our signature program. listen to c-span's bookshelf podcast this holiday season. you can find it and all of our podcast on the free mobile video at wherever you get your podcast, and on our website, c-span.org/podcast. announcer: browse through our latest collection of books, home decor and accessories. there is something for every c-span fan. every purchase helps support our nonprofit operations. shop now or anytime at

c-spanshop.org. washington journal continues. host: joining us now from the office building on capitol hill, a six term congressman on for affairs and house intelligence committee. good morning to you, sir. what is your assessment at this point of a new aid package moving through ukraine here before the holidays, and what do you think of president zelenskyy visiting capitol hill yesterday? guest: i certainly think that unfortunately the odds are long. at this point, the senate is still stuck in the border conversation. i think that is a shame. it is important for president zelenskyy to be here on the hill making the case. this is an inflection point in the war between russia and ukraine and we've got to stand by ukraine because this doesn't end after ukraine. we can't let vladimir putin and russia win this war. i think it is incredibly important for us to get that

aid. we will certainly work with the pentagon and the doj and our european allies to make sure ukraine has what it needs. one of the first thing city will become back after the break is to get that aid package done. host: you mention congressional republicans stuck on the border conversation. why can't we do both of these things at the same time and how far apart are democrats and republicans when it comes to the border conversation? guest: you know, i think we have to do the border. we have real issues on the southern border. i think the president recognizes that as well. i would hope that we could negotiate on the things that we agree on, like additional border security. in addition, we need more judges, immigration judges, and more personnel. host: senator alex padilla from your state of california, a statement he put out yesterday concerned that the white house

might be moving closer to the republicans position on these border issues. he wrote we are deeply concerned the president would consider advancing trump-era immigration policies the democrats fought so hard against and that he himsf campaigned against in exchange for aid to allies that blicans support. the statement goes on from ere. what are the trump-era immigration policies he is referring to their? what are democrats so concerned about? guest: he shut down the entire asylum process. the district i represent has the largest number of afghan refugees, a large number of ukrainian refugees, and large african-american community. we do need to provide asylum to individuals who are fleeing. i think there should be compromise, though, on who our folks legitimately seeking asylum for those coming across the border for other reasons. host: democratic member of the foreign affairs committee.

the select intelligence committee. he's with us until the top of the hour. go ahead and start calling and if you have questions for him. (202) 748-8001 republicans. (202) 748-8000 free democrats. independents, (202) 748-8002. i review her know that later today there will be a vote to formalize the impeachment investigation into president biden. your thoughts on what these investigations have found so far? is there anything that has caught your eye and make you think it is worth looking into? guest: know, there hasn't been anything that has risen to the level of high crimes and misdemeanors even chairman coomer who runs the house oversight committee had his own witnesses come in and make the case that there wasn't any evidence that would rise to the level of impeachment. i think we find ourselves in this horrible place where each meant, censures, things like

that are just becoming routine. you hate to see that way democrat is in the white house, republicans moved to impeachment. , brooke -- when republicans are in the white house come it is impeachment. we debated a long time the trump impeachment. host: who is to blame for impeachment becoming routine coming off the presidency that saw two impeachments? guest: january 6, let's set that one aside because that clearly was an insurrection, the first bipartisan impeachment vote in our history. i think we've got to get back to actually legislating, getting things done. you talked about the border. we've got a war going on in europe and now we've got the middle east. we have to make sure that we get aid to the middle east and israel but also make sure this doesn't become a broader war in the middle east. host: how about getting things done, the clock ticking on the

time before congress resets for the rest of the year to get things done? remind u.s. what section 702 is. guest: section 702 is a unique tool that our intelligence committee uses to keep our country safe. we've made incredible reforms to protect civil liberties but also to get our intelligence community the fuel they need when they are looking at counterterrorism, bad actors in that individuals abroad. so that provision expires at the end of this calendar year. if that did expire, that would damage our national security. i do think in the defense authorization bill that is coming up, current waivers, hopefully that will give us time to come up with --, allows them to help those communities to do their work.

host: about 20 minutes left, plenty of calls already in. we will get right to them. nathaniel and mississippi is on the line for democrats. caller: good morning, c-span. host: morning. caller: look, i've been watching c-span over 16 years. i do not watch fox news and stuff like that because i don't need what they say. but i appreciate what you're doing in california. i want to know why every time the democrats and republicans have an election, and the democrats win, why they always go to the border. i know you all are working with them back and forth when they come up. first thing they do is come up with something else, like move the goalpost or something. i don't think it's right. i appreciate what you are doing.

ukraine, they need help. as soon as they go to ukraine they are going to keep going and keep going. host: the border question? guest: i appreciate that sentiment. we are a nation, grins. my parents came from india in the 1950's legally. we've got border challenges, but we've also got a broken immigration system. we do need folks coming in. we also are going to feel incredible pressure with climate change. we see folks coming up from central america and putting real pressure on the border. i would hope democrats and republicans could come together to negotiate compromise and come up with a reasonable immigration system that both recognizes legal immigration, but also

recognizes some of the concerns at our borders. host: this is gordon, independent. good morning. caller: good morning, thanks for your service with c-span. thanks, representative, for being there. i was wondering if the representative had read the 87 page report that chuck grassley and ron -- put up september 20 3, 2020 and the democratic response to that report. host: what was that report on, gordon? caller: it was on the report that grassley had just put out on the alleged crimes that biden and his son are possibly guilty of on receiving money from

ukraine, china and russia. host:host: did you read that report? caller: i read part of it, it is really comprehensive. it also -- host: let me just give him a chance to respond. guest: i did not read that report. obviously the legal process is taking place and playing out. we saw some new allegations come out against hunter biden. i would let that process play out. again, i am a firm believer in the rule of law. i've not seen any evidence at this juncture that hunter biden committed any high crimes or misdemeanors or anything that rises to the level of illegality. but again, let the legal process play out and we will see where it ends. host: this is john, republican, good morning. caller: thanks for taking my call. i want to ask a general question

that could be specific to him. regarding him, all of our congress, all of our senators and the president, biden. he claims to be a christian man and a christian is a catholic. are you a christian man, number one, yes or no? guest: i am a unitarian. a person of faith who deeply believes in god. caller: so faith, i will set aside. these men in congress, they make a note before -- make an oath. that was a person that was in our military. i will ask my question. most of these people do not understand truth because of the fact that they don't know the lord jesus, that he shed his blood for our country. host: what is your question? what is your question, john? caller: the question is if he believes a different way,

probably of his own faith, if there is a god, we stand behind him with our constitution. host: all right, that is john in chicago. anything to add? guest: certainly this is a time where we've got to keep and find our faith, prime things that bring us together. and again, as a unitarian, i look at all faith traditions. there is something that binds us together in terms of god. host: winston in virginia, line for democrats. caller: hi, representative. i served in the u.s. marine corps for about six years. i was originally pretty supportive of some of the initial calls for israel having the right to defend themselves and everything like that, but there's some things that have kind of been trouble and from the past few weeks that have kind of come up.

i was just wondering if these things have been brought to your attention. there was a new york times story about vp netanyahu giving suitcases of cash in order to separate them from the west bank. the israeli government yesterday was saying that they do not want a palestinian state, and the u.n., they voted for a cease-fire overwhelmingly yesterday, but the u.s. and the security council vetoed the call for a cease-fire. and with all of the amount of debt that has been going on and really, from what i've seen, is that the only time there has been hostage exchanges is when there is a cease-fire. i'm not sure how one could still argue to just freely give weapons to israel, and especially seeing there is white phosphorus being used on such a

condensed civilian populace. so i'm not sure how one can square this. it is kind of looking like genocide to me. guest: first, thank you for your service. i agree with you, you are raising a lot of very interesting points that are getting debated here. so let's look at october 7 first. obviously, hamas attacked israel and there is a war going on. that said, we have to do everything we can to protect innocent palestinian civilians and i think legitimately, we can debate how israel is prosecuting this war. should they do it using intelligence? i think that is being debated and you hear president biden talking about that. here certainly talking about that in congress. one of the things i'm most worried about right now is the

imminent humanitarian crisis that is unfolding. lack of clean water, lack of food. lack of just basic medication. you are seeing rampant diarrhea, cholera, respiratory illnesses. i really fear that many more innocent palestinians could die of incredibly preventable causes. so we've got to open up border crossings to get humanitarian aid into gaza. these are noncombatants. food, water, basically military and supplies to those individuals to prevent those debts. and yes, i'm not a big fan of prime minister netanyahu. i was in israel in may and july, and i think there needs to be some action taken. you have started to hear president biden push a little bit more strongly on trying to lay the groundwork for a two state solution.

i think that is the only path forward if we want to find peace in the middle east. host: what were you doing in israel in may and july? guest: taking a look at the security and the entire region and again, in july, looking more specifically at israel and the security situation. host: and how much did those meetings focus on hamas, and was there any thought in those meetings that we would see something like we saw back in october? guest: i think it was more focused on the northern border with what hezbollah was doing and on israel's northern border. certainly that was the main focus on what was happening with the judicial reforms and the protest that you were seeing in israel and the internal tension. and there was a lot of focus on the west bank and what was going on in the west bank. how to help the palestinian

authority's get a little bit stronger and so forth to maintain peace in the region. i do think, they reference to the new story about whether yahoo!'s true message is about ha -- whether netanyahu's true messages about hamas. host: about 10 minutes left. a member of the foreign affairs committee, focusing on your work there for just a second more. you are a top democrat on the indo pacific subcommittee. in this conversation about foreign aid, taiwan comes up as well. what do you think about the potential of a chinese invasion in taiwan in the near future, the likelihood of something like that happening? guest: i would hope that doesn't happen because that would really disrupt the entire world, the global economy. it would be magnitudes more

impactful than the invasion of the crane and that would then be the third-highest conflict in the world. our hope is to get back to a more normal relationship with china, with beijing. it's fine for us to be competitors, but the goal here is not to have a direct conflict. that said, the taiwan relations act, it is up to the people of taiwan. in a bipartisan way, democrats and republicans respect taiwan's ability to determine their own future. host: alabama, this is chuck, line for independents. caller: good morning. i got a question. as a smart man, and i think you're pretty smart, why do you not have any curiosity as to where the millions and millions of dollars that biden took and hunter took and the shell companies, all that money had to

come from somewhere for some reason. i don't know they have any way they could get an honest paycheck out of that, so that money was getting to them for some reason and you are not curious about that? i find it odd you wouldn't even be curious or at least want to investigate it. guest: from my perspective, i've not seen any of that evidence suggests president biden. obviously the legal process is taking president unfolding against hunter biden. i would say let that play out and we will see where it leads. again, i'm not in the majority, so it is up to the majority if they want to pursue investigation. that is certainly the right of the oversight committee. i was at that committee hearing when chairman comber's own witnesses said hey, there's not any evidence here that rises to high crimes and misdemeanors or

any evidence to suggest that we should start an impeachment inquiry. again, that vote will take place . host: what does that mean, high crimes and misdemeanors? guest: it would be an example of what happened on january 6. the peaceful transition of power. to disrupt that, i would consider that a high crime. host: republican, good morning. caller: good morning, sir. there's a couple questions i'd like to ask you. the first is we all heard donald trump say something about him being a dictator for just one day. and all the republicans had to condemn that statement. but i'm hearing hillary clinton, jamie raskin, saying that republicans need to be implicated. now, how is that process going to go forth? i don't really think i want to

be reeducated. are you really going to shoot me down in front of my grandkids? guest: so i am very worried about that statement that former president donald trump set about being dictator for a day. we ought to take that very seriously. obviously i am not a trump supporter. i am very worried about where the dialogue has gone and i think that is the most important question. how we come together as democrats and republicans at the center of democracy. i didn't vote for donald trump in 2016 but i certainly believe he won that election, i voted to certify that election. same thing. president biden winning the election in 2020, it's going to be a very contested election in 2024. let's see where it plays out. host: just a few minutes left.

this is coral springs, florida, independent. caller: yes, good morning to you. i do have a question for you. i constantly hear how congress people and senate people talk about getting things done. as an independent voter, i've voted for both democrats and republicans. the house of representatives has lost a lot of time this year between kevin mccarthy and finding a new speaker, mike johnson. things are not being done and i believe in accountability. i'm wondering why people feel that they should go away on vacations when work has not been done. i believe in accountability and i think that personally, the people of the united states deserve to have these things done and that they should hold themselves accountable in congress to get these bills taken care of, the ukraine and

the israeli requirements that need to be looked at. why do people feel that they should go and take their time and go on vacation? host: got your point, we are running short on time. guest: i absolutely agree. if we can get them done, let's get them done. if it's going to take time to negotiate, that probably isn't acceptable. we should have got things done back in october. i think part of the challenge in congress right now is you got extremes in both parties on the far left and the far right. i believe most members of congress are a little bit far left, a little bit center-right. the problem is leadership sometime is beholden to the extremes of the parties. you just saw that with former speaker kevin mccarthy being ousted by eight republicans.

again, we got to fix this and we've got to find a way to make congress feel functional and work better. host: how would you describe your politics, centerleft? guest: my politics are centerleft. we've got to figure out how to work together as democrats and republicans, especially since there are such narrow majorities. the only way to get things done is with the other parties vote. host: has the problem solvers caucus solve problems? guest: it has certainly tried to come together with solutions. you see a lot of the problem solvers are the ones on party lines. again, with narrow majorities right now, the republicans have a five seat majority, it is really hard to get things done with your party only. in that case, why not reach across the aisle to see if you can get people to work together? host: time for just one or two more calls. this is marvin, democrat from east iowa. caller: good morning, good

morning. first of all, we need to understand here in this country that we are giving too much responsibility to you guys. we are giving you too much to do. they are dissecting you, not giving you enough time to concentrate on anything. on top of that, if they really want to stop the war with israel and hamas, draw a line and put the u.n. on the others. they are not trying to solve stuff. they are trying to create more mess. it is up to you guys to get together and start concentrating i'll let needs to be done. with that, i'm going to let you go. have a good day. host: go ahead. guest: thank you for those comments. i think we are trying to solve problems. these are incredibly complicated issues. when we think about the tensions in the middle east, that has

been going on for millennia. saudi arabia, jordan and turkey, they met with us on the foreign affairs committee and also with secretary blinken. we are starting to think about how to end the war and what does the day after look like? it's not going to be easy, but we are going to have to try to work toward that in the region. host: to that caller's statement, are you overworked as a member of congress? guest: there is a lot going on in the world right now. being on the intelligence committee, i certainly see the threats to our national security but also around the world. we are working really hard, there is a lot going on, but we've got to get this done. the burden of america being a sensible nation is really high on us right now.

we are trying to prevent a third war in china. host: we will let you get to that work. the house coming in in just about one hour. we always appreciate the time. coming up in about 20 minutes, we will be joined by annan gill, president ceo of the council on criminal justice. we will talk about crime trends in the united states, cystic around for that discussion. until then, it is our open forms. any public policy, any political issue you want to talk about. the phone lines are yours to do so. go >> book tv, every sunday on c-span two, features leading authors discussing their nonfiction books. at two :00 p.m., bookkeeper

since coverage of the 2023 southern festival of books with discussions on appalachi, the kkk, tennessee hisry, and more. at0:00 p.m. eastern, 10 alberta examines the image of go movement in america and its intersection with political issues with his book. he's interviewed by a university of messiah professor. find a full schedule under program guide or watch online at any time at a book title -- book tv -- booktv.org. >> friday night, watch c-span's "2024 campaign trail," a nonstop shop to discover where the candidates are traveling and what they're saying to voters. this along with firsthand accounts, poll numbers, and

updated data. watch friday night at 7:00 p.m. eastern come online at c-span.org, or download as a podcast on c-span now. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. >> if you ever miss any of c-span's coverage, you can find it online anytime at c-span.org. figures of key hearings and other events future markers that guide you to interesting interviews really highlights. please point with appear on the right-hand side of your screen. this timeline drove makes it easy to quickly get an idea of what was debated and decided in washington. scroll through and spend a few minutes on c-span's points of interests. >> this year, book tv march 25

years of shining a spotlight on leading nonfiction authors and their books with talks from more than 22 hundred authors, nearly 900 cities and festivals visited , and 16,000 events. book tv has provided viewers with 92,000 hours of programming on the latest a discussions on history, politics, and biography. you can watch book tv every sunday on c-span2 or online at booktv tv.org. -- booktv.org. 25 years of television for serious readers. >> be up-to-date on the latest in publishing with book tv's podcast "about books "nonfiction book releases, bestseller lists, and industry news, and trends through insider interviews. you can find out about books on c-span now or wherever you get your podcasts.

>> "washington journal" continues. host: 20 minutes here for our open forum, any political issue you want to talk about. 202-748-8001 for republicans to call in. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. as you are calling in, this headline from nbc news came off of that high-profile hearing from last week. bob akers introduced bipartisan resolution condemning college presidents' response to up to semitism -- response to antisemitism. it calls on the heads of universities to resign. elise stefanik teaming up to condemned university president'' testimony. this was some of elise

stefanik's statements yesterday on harvard university's leadership. [video clip] >> there is a reason it garnered one million views euros white -- use worldwide. those presidents made history by putting up the most morally bankrupt commercial testimony into the record and the world side. as a harvard graduate, i am reminded of harvard's motto veritas which goes back to the 16 40's. the motto was "truth for christ and the church." larry summers who was president of harvard when i was in undergrad talked about the meaning of veritas's divine truth, moral truth. let me be clear, veritas does not depend on the context. this is a moral failure of

leadership at the highest level. the only change they have made to their code of conduct where they failed to condemned cause for genocide of the jewish people, the only update is to allow a plagiarist as a president of harvard. host: new york republican elise stefanik yesterday on capitol hill. your calls now in open forum. this is kim out of new york. democrat. go ahead. caller: good morning. the republicans don't talk about health care, jobs, anything productive. for the last seven years they have been losing elections. keep talking about the border, that is all you have going. you are going to lose. he is not going to get impeached because if he goes to the senate they are not going to impeach him. let's get the country going and look out for people and stop going tit for tat.

we are going to keep losing. abortion is going to kick them in the butt. host: silver spring, maryland. independent. good morning. caller: i am enjoying the show. i think the members of congress are full of themselves. they view themselves as members of congress and leader of the free world and they don't want to make any compromises. i have the best person to lead the house of representatives is congresswoman nancy mace. i have to criticism and credit -- i have to credit c-span. there was a congressional roast where nancy mace was the master of ceremonies. did you see it? host: i don't think i saw that one. caller: she was the master of

ceremonies, it was on c-span. all you have to do to find it is put it into google. it was a right, it was hilarious. host: if it was on c-span it is in c-span archives. caller: i am sorry? host: if it is on c-span is available at c-span.org. pretty easy to search that. caller: it was hilarious. she brought down the house. i think nancy mace would be an accident -- an excellent candidate for speaker of the house. she brought down the house for comedy. that is my opinion. host: that is eric.

this is gary in clifton heights. republican. caller: what i would like to say is good morning. i was hoping to catch hunter biden here, but i guess you are not putting that hearing on tv. host: there is not a hunter biden hearing happening today. there was scheduled to be a closed-door deposition with hunter biden with lawyers and hunter biden's lawyers said hunter biden will not be showing up saying he would show up for a public hearing and he will testify and that agreement was not reached between the oversight committee and hunter biden. there is not a hunter biden hearing happening today. caller: okay, i misunderstood that. what i want to say is the integration policy joe biden doesn't have has affected not

just the obvious people in texas , but we are seeing it here in philadelphia. i live outside philadelphia and there are families from south america holding signs and stuff like that. this is not the way it is in our country. i am upset about it and i hope it can change soon. host: holding signs about what? caller: holding signs that will say we are immigrants and we need food. host: that is gary and a pennsylvania. this is catherine in ohio. good morning. caller: i am from cleveland ohio which is in the southwest corner between kentucky and indiana. my comment is that we have found a war that the republicans want find and it is ukraine.

the you can country needs to be lifted up because right now no americans are fighting in that war. they said they will handle it and they will handle it. they need our support. this is the first time in my 75 years i can remember a time when republicans have refused to help ukrainians. it is a sad time. as americans, we always like to think that we help people around the world. my granddaughter's husband is in romania at this present time. there are no soldiers in ukraine and it is time the republicans get off of the -- that they don't want to support our military and they don't want to support of the militaries of any

country. i support israel. i think they have got a bad leader. i do support israel. thank you very much. host: sylvester, independent. you are next. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am going to ask a question concerning the palestinian and israel. did hamas ask for any of their prisoners to be released in the prisoner swap? host: are you saying prisoner exchange was a good thing or a bad thing? caller: i think is a good thing. they are saying hamas is so bad but they are not asking for hamas prisoners, they are asking for regular people to be

released. host: this is andy in the grand canyon state. republican. good morning. caller: good morning. i wanted to get on -- i thought you heard you say you are going to have a criminologist. i was going to get on so i hope you can ask a question. host: is adam gelb with the council on criminal justice. he does a lot of reports on that topic, crimes in dozens of cities. talking about the types of crimes that are up and down. but what is the question you will me to ask? caller: you had a cast on a while back, i cannot remove her her last name. she is with axios or one of those. i asked if the doj had done any assessment of how much crime we

are importing into this country, anywhere between five and seven many people here -- and 7 million people here. just recently in texas, a 16 year old girl was raped and murdered by an illegal immigrant who just came into this country. host: you are looking for stats on crimes committed by illegal immigrants? caller: correct. that is additional crime. our police have their hands full . we know nothing about them. that would be a wonderful question for him if they could do that. real quick, couple of other thoughts. about ukraine, i know it is just our treasurer and i am favor of support in ukraine, but i want to support this border first and

get it secured. memorial day, i know it is far away. i was thinking what is memorial day on the get a day route -- get a day? if we can give all of these groups a full month, should we give our fallen soldiers a four-month? that is about -- a full month. that is about it. host: adam gelb from the council on criminal justice is set to join us in five or 10 minutes. we had democrat ami bera on with us. andy ogles was scheduled to be on but had to cancel at the last minute. we are going to get him down the road. plenty going on on capitol hill has given us time to talk about different issues.

this is the part of the show really disco -- you need to show it open forum. susan on the line for democrats. what is on your mind? caller: i want to touch on a few things. president biden is a good person company good man. you can tell he is a good father. everybody has drug addictions and mental illness in their family. just because his son is a screw up, it does not mean he is involved in collectivity. if you want to interview someone, do it in front of everybody. netanyahu has got to go. he is not a good person. he obviously let this attack happen. we are singular poor people used as ponds, shoveled around the country, terrorized, covered

with dirt and blood. that is not a good look for america to be supporting. netanyahu has got to go. we can't support israel but they have to make a better choice. with the border, we can do something with the border. we are not idiots. we do not need to be shooting people. let's look at why these people are coming, what we can do to figure out what to do with them. we can do this, we just need more money, more resources, whatever. as far as ukraine, the whole world is watching. putin is like the new healer. -- new hitler's. there are new hitler's waiting in the wings. we have to support ukraine, give

them what they need. putin is people. host: this is neil in missouri. just a couple of minutes left in open forum. caller: thank you for taking my call. i wanted to make a comment, especially to the republicans listening, but really to the whole nation. the survival of our democracy in this upcoming election is the most important issue and i believe it transcends all of the others. i hear so much demonization of immigrants and the guy in philadelphia carrying the sign saying we are immigrants and we need food. those people are human beings. we need to look at matthew chapter 25 to know how to treat them. the human response to somebody carrying a sign that says they needs food trash they need food is to give them money to buy

food or give them food. the survival of our democracy is going to affect everything else that this country goes through in the years and decades to come. it is the most precious thing we have. it goes back to our nation's founding. the american experiment makes us unique among the world. we are acting as if is a light train -- a light thing, a trifle. i believe it is the issue. that is what i have to say. host: our last caller in the segment. about 30 minutes before the house comes in, until then we will be joined with adam gelb. we will talk about crime trends in the united states. we will get that discussion after the break. ♪

>> c-span's cap a24 campaign 2024 coverage continues. watch live as the first votes are cast in the upcoming residential election along with candidate speeches and results beginning with the iowa caucuses are generally 15th and then you have your primary on january 2 any third. -- on january 23. campaign 2024 on c-span, don't unfiltered view of politics -- your unfiltered view on politics. > listening to programs our c-span radio app easier. tell your smart speaker to play c-span radio and listen to "washington journal" a daily at 7:00 a.m. eastern. weekdays at five rpm and 90 5 p.m. eastern, catch "washington today" for a fast-paced report

of the stores of the day route -- stories of the day. just type your smart speaker to play c-span radio. >> c-span has a number of podcasts for you. listen to best-selling authors on the afterwards hope "-- "after words" podcast. we feature nonfiction books on a wide array of topics. the "about books" podcasted takes you behind the scenes with insider interviews, industry updates, and bestsellers lists. find all of our podcast by downloading the free c-span now cap or wherever you get your podcasts. c-span.org/podcasts.

>> since 1979, in partnership with the cable industry, c-span has provided complete coverage of the house of congress from the house and senate floors to congressional hearings, party briefings, and committee meetings. c-span gives you a front receipt to help issues are debated and decided with no commentary, no interruptions, and completely unfiltered. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. >> c-span now is a free mobile app featuring your unfiltered view of what is happening in washington live and on-demand. keep up with the biggest events with livestream's of flood proceedings, white house events, campaigns, and more in the world of politics all at your fingertips. you can stay current with the latest episodes of washington

journal and find scheduling information for c-span tv networks and c-span radio, plus a variety of compelling podcasts. c-span now is available at apple store and google play. scan the qr code to demo today or visit our website, c-span.org/c-spannow. your front row seat to washington anytime, anywhere. >> "washington journal" continues. host: a conversation on crime trends in the u.s. with adam gelb from the council on criminal justice. what is the mission of the council? why did you started? -- start it? guest: it is an commission of years i had in, justice and recognition there needed to be a nonpartisan think tank that wrestles with the pros and cons and the trade-offs of the policy options.

we are a think tank and membership organization. host: how do you go about composing that mission? visit reports -- is it reports or lobbying? guest: no lobbying, but we try to anchor these very -- these very difficult conversations about crime and criminal justice with the facts and evidence of what is not. the primary way we do that is forming taskforces of our members, asking diverse sets of people from across different sectors, and ideologies to find common ground. we have done that in abrupt times. -- we have done that a number of times. we have been an organization in little over -- years now with gonzales who helped us start a path. we did with sal yates and trey gowdy. we have a veterans justice commission working right now

that has senator chuck hagel and former defense secretary hagel. up with a former white house chief of staff and defense secretary. we are building common ground across the political spectrum for things that actually work. host: counciloncj.org is where people can go. when we talk about crime trends, it is usually bad news first. let's flip the script. the headline on your opinion piece, on criminal justice, don't just focus on the bad news. we ignore progress at our peril. what is the progress? guest: if you look at this long-term, we are in a better place than work. sometimes it is easy to focus on what is happening now. there is a general sense that in the country things continue to get worse. the effect of the matter is whether you are concerned mostly about crime or about the rate of

incarceration in this country, both of those things have come down dramatically since the early 1990's. crime is at least 50% lower than it was in the 90's and the incarceration rate, people have an impression that the incarceration rate has continued to grow and skyrocket. in fact, it has dropped 30%. racial disparities, which is a crucial focus in this field, a lot of people think racial disparities are getting bigger and bigger. disparity gaps between blocks and whites in prison has shrunk. host: what should people know about crime trends in 2023? guest: that is a very muddy picture. maybe some viewers are still having breakfast, so it is as clear as a glass of milk or a glass of orange juice is. it depends your time period, what day you look at. if you look over the short-term,

we have been given a master class in criminology by the pandemic. looking over the past five years, what we are seeing is significant changes in motives, means, and opportunities to commit crime. that has meant a spike in violence that occurred antisocial justice protest of 2020, homicide jumping up to 40% above where it was pre-pandemic and now receding. on the property crime side where people work at home, it became harder to steal things so we saw a drop in property crimes, including retail theft. now we are seeing that rebound. we have both trends reverting back to where we were pre-pandemic. host: the risk and follow along at councilofcj.org. their report of trends and criminal crime activity.

homicide, aggravated assault, domestic violence, down year-over-year from january to june of 2022 to january of june -- anyway to june 2023. the place it is up his motor vehicle thefts. why? guest: a lot of speculation as to why and it is fascinating because motor vehicle theft is a crime that was virtually wiped out. it dropped 75% or more through a series of anti-crime techniques and targeting truck trusts. all of those cars that were built without a mechanism that makes it more difficult to hardwire the car. this video has sparked a wave of thefts of kias and hyundais.

it is not the entire situation. a lot of that is joyriding. we have seen an increase in the prices of used cars which became difficult to get. there are a number of different things driving that increase. it is one thing that runs counter to what i said about the crime trends reverting to pre-pandemic levels. motor vehicle theft continues to increase. guest:--host: up 34% year-over-year. guest: and double in the last few years. host: adam gelb is our guest of the council on criminal justice. crime trends is our topic. before the house comes in, if you want to join the conversation, phones are regional. if you are in the center or eastern time zones, it is 202-748-8000. if you are in the mountain or pacific time zones, 202-748-8001 . go ahead and start calling in.

you were talking about retail crimes, retail executives testified before the house committee -- house homeland security subcommittee. this is -- on the impact of organized retail crime. [video clip] >> i spent 36 years as an asset productions professional, apprehending shoplifters from a major department store to holding several roles with a retailer. i may just -- multi-branded global restaurant organization. i have witnessed the evolution and progression of theft across the retail industry. shoplifting and organized retail crime is not new. the landscape of today is unprecedented and unmatched. the frequency of theft, the openness of criminals, violence, at the quantities and types of

merchandise are indicators of criminal activity beyond amateur or opportunistic shoplifting. these are markers toward the proliferation and evolution of organized retail crime. networks orchestrate and influence and create demand for those committing theft and fraud. shoplifting, cargo theft, burglary scum smash and grabs, and various frauds are just a means to the end. these networks range from loosely organized, local and regional groups to highly sophisticated hierarchies operating a transnational level. these groups thrive on enabling others to commit their crimes. they prey on the homeless, the addicted, and even victims of human trafficking. a profit from the reselling of stolen goods online, redistributing goods back into our marketplace, and the transportation of stolen goods beyond our border.

we believe these groups use organized retail crime is a great way crime -- okay we crime -- a gateway crime. these groups must be the focus of our local, state, and federal efforts. host: organized shoplifting by transnational groups? explain. guest: it is very difficult to get a handle on how much of the increase we have seen the last couple of years in shoplifting at retail theft due to those organized efforts or simply based here in this country versus lone wolves, individual people stealing for their own basic human necessities. the data is atrocious. we have tried to shed some light on this by looking at police data and understanding what is being reported to police but

there's a huge chasm between what is reported to police which i think everyone acknowledges short of the total volume of these incidents and what people are hearing from the retail industry. huge numbers, $112 billion of total losses. filling in that middle is a critical thing for congress and the retail industry. host: i am going to let you chat with some viewers. out of indianapolis, indiana, independent. go ahead. caller: what i wanted to know was, has anyone thought of maybe the snatch and grabs are due to the economy, the high pricing of items, and he goods being so high -- and if the goods being so high -- and the goods being so high? why doesn't the government to

control of the price gouging? i think it is also do to homelessness. when you have lived in an apartment or home or wherever you live and the rent is going up and you watch her parents every morning going to work, doing everything they can to keep the family with a roof over their head, and all the sudden you look up and after covid -- when are they going to get control of the housing and of the price gouging? host: inflation and homelessness, impact on retail crime? guest: there does seem to be some link between inflation and theft crimes. we are studying this more right now. we will have more out fairly soon with what the latest patterns are with respect to what has been happening. over time there has been a link there. the key distinction is between

people who steal to live and people who steal for a living. that is the distinction you were getting out as well a moment ago which is very hard to get at. we don't have a good sense of the extent of the total volume of that going on from stores right now being orchestrated by people preying on homeless and other people. we say this is how i would like to make a living, i would like to steal things from stores and sell it on ebay will be part of a theft ring. that is my job. host: to new york, this is rob. good morning. you are on with adam gelb. caller: good morning. a comment and a question. it has been reported that venezuela has control over its most violent prisons and with 500,000 immigrants released into

the u.s., and we have no way of checking them. we have no commit occasion with venezuela. -- communication with venezuela. what is being done to make sure the crime done over there does not explode into the u.s.? guest: i don't have a lot for you on the border situation. this issue has become a giant political football with the notion that not only are there a lot of criminals making their way over the border along with people fleeing desperate situations, but doing so with that no rush with fentanyl -- with fentanyl. host: which brings up another viewer's call in open form, he asked if the department of justice has any -- has done any kind of assessment on imported crime by illegal immigrants?

guest: there is good research that indicates immigrants are less responsible for crime than people who are naturally born in the u.s.. you think about it over time, it makes sense as people assimilate into this country. they are coming here to seek a better life for themselves and their families. it may be rough going, but that is what they're coming here for. they built legitimate businesses and contribute to this economy and the vibrancy of our country. host: one of the reports that viewers can find on your website, homicide, other violent crimes decline in u.s. cities but remain above pre-pandemic levels. how do you assess this? where are you getting data from? are you talking about every city in the u.s. collecting data? guest: there is any issue with respect to data collection about crime in the country. we are in a bad situation for

good reasons and that is that since the 1960's, the fbi has been collecting data from police departments across the country. at the super social -- at the very superficial levels. there is a new situation that started being rolled out to try to understand crime in a much more detailed way. it has taken a long time for police departments, many of which are tiny, less than 10 officers, to have the capacity to focus on the data collection part as opposed to the crime-fighting. the department and the fbi said we are not collecting the old data anymore, we are switching to a new system. a number of departments were not able to do that. but we had a situation where there was not a national crime report coming out. we have tried to fill that gap by taking samples of cities that

published real-time data on their websites to try to give some sense of what is happening in real-time. host: when it comes to a report like this, how many cities are you talking about your pulling the data from? guest: about three dozen cities and we wish there were more that report data from a motor vehicle theft and everything in between. that is about all. host: party 83 largest in the u.s. boys is a sampling of medium and large cities? guest: it is medium and large cities. host: counselorcj.org. if you want to call in with questions, do so on regional lines until he has comes in at 10:00 a.m. eastern -- until the house comes in at 10:00 a.m. eastern.

this is claudia. caller: i wanted to ask, i have been confused about why we are saying smash and grab? isn't that stealing? i wonder why the terminology has suddenly become smash and grab. along that line, the sentiment appears to be that we don't want to call things what they are and instead -- i have watched this i think from the beginning. we have not heard any discussion about the shop owners. some of these people are mom-and-pop businesses. when are we going to as america and people who work for a living , when are we going to talk about these people whose families have owned these shops for generations?

not only can people access the shops because there are so many homeless blocking the doorway and the cities are not doing much about it. secondly, when are we going to talk about the fact that people are losing their livelihood? host: you bring up a couple of points. let me let adam gelb jump in. guest: let me start with the second one. there are a lot of people who do not seem to have much sympathy for the big national corporations that are losing money to theft. they feel in some way that these corporations are making plenty of money and this amounts to some of what percent or 2% of their total revenue so is not a big deal. -- so it is not a big deal. that neglects the mom-and-pop's. we have seen examples of mom-and-pop stores shutting down on account of theft.

it is a real tragedy for those businesses and people with jobs and for the vitality of a lot of communities and the availability of goods. on the second point with respect to smash and grab, i don't know if there is a particular terminology issue, it is widely acknowledged by people working this field that there's a difference between someone coming in and putting something underneath their coat and walking out and the mass ransacking of incidents we have seen. this is an important point, there is focus on the total volume of shoplifting incidents, the quantity of it, how much is stolen. that conversation neglects the quality part. what we have seen and what are report documents by this more nuanced data we were talking about that is now being collected as part of the crime reporting system, how many

incidents involve two or more people and how many involve any ancillary crime such as property destruction or even violent crime against a person? those things are increasing. they are a tiny part of the overall picture. when you have those incidents, they are captured on video and spread across the internet. bad news spreads further and deeper and faster than good news. people see that and he gives them a sense of lawlessness, anything goes. people feel like they can do that and get away with it. what i worry about is if people say the chances are still so small so you should not worry about it. people have different risk tolerance for different things. people want to chance of getting in a store and having a mob of people come in and tear the

place apart. they want that chance to be zero. host: one term we get caught up on his buttons. how do five assault weapons -- caught up on is assault weapons. how do defined or sold weapon? guest: -- an assault weapon? guest: an assault weapon is generally thought of as something that will fire multiple rounds with one single squeeze of the trigger. host: you were in congress, did you work on the assault weapons man -- weapons ban? guest: i did. host: what role did you play? guest: i was staffed to the senate judiciary committee. that was a christmas tree build, it committed all kinds of ornaments including the violence against women act, pulleys on

the streets, funding for -- it also included a lesser-known provision, one that gave the justice department the authority to investigate patterns and practices of bias in policing. that power the justice department has been using to try to help police departments be more effective and more equitable in their practices came from the climb -- from the crime bill. host: on the assault weapons band, did that work? guest: there is evidence that it did reduce the number of deaths by assault weapons. it expired. we have not been able to get back to a place where it is reinstated. host: about 15 minutes left with adam gelb from the council on criminal justice taking your phone calls. split regionally. to illinois, this is ballard.

caller: i would like to give a synopsis of my background. i am african-american, i grew up in chicago on the westside -- on the south side. i was hired by the department of corrections as a sociologist. we interviewed two thirds of male adult felons in the state of illinois and determined what prisoners they were -- what prisons they would go to. i see these paper pushers who have nice jobs behind desks come up with some mathematical statistics on violent crime. they are so divorced from the reality of what is actually occurring on the streets. in chicago, north michigan avenue, people are being robbed at gunpoint. in the south suburbs, two targets have been hit. there is a gas station i frequent, they drove in behind a man and another car in front of him, they put guns on him and

made him lay face down. any officer was killed in chicago -- an officer was killed in chicago. the man that killed her had an electronic bracelet on his ankle. we are talking about violent crime. the liberals and americans say we cannot arrest and incarcerate ourselves out of this problem. but we know that the rate is two thirds under the age 35. when you lock these violent criminals up, they are not on the streets committing crimes. why cannot people understand it? yet we have any assault weapons ban passed to criminalize people who by ar-15's. you are targeting the above people. you need to go after the criminals. the chief judge in cook county says only 3% actually violate. you don't know that because the

chicago police clearance rate is only 24%. host: there was a lot in that question -- guest: there was a lot in that question. i understand and try to provide -- and try to about vase with the situation you are living in -- and empathize with the situation you are living in. violence is so much lower today than it was before 25 years ago. but it is generally. one of the reasons it is because there have been improvements in policing. there have been improvements in the ability of corrections systems like the one the caller worked in to prepare people who are locked up for successful reentry when they come back to communities. we are seeing in the last couple of years a significant increase

in interest in evidence-based copperheads and strategies to reduce violence -- evidence-based comprehensive and strategic strategies to reduce violence. on the prevention side, you try to make sure we are not seeing the conditions in communities giving rise to this incidents. host: talking with adam gelb of the council on criminal justice. the house set to come in in about 10 minutes here. we will take you to the house when they do come in. hunter biden spoke with reporters briefly on capitol hill a few minutes ago, offering to testify in public when it comes to the investigation into his finances before the oversight committee. one tweet from cnn, "hunter biden making a rare in public as

the subpoena calls for his deposition behind closed doors saying his father was not financially involved in his business. he accuses her -- he accuses republicans of distorting the facts and attacking his family." hunter biden speaking to republicans a few minutes ago on capitol hill. back to this conversation on crime trends and we will continue until the house comes in. david is in tennessee. guest: i would like to expand on that. you talk about violence, we have this conversation between let's lock him up and throw away the key and on the other hand lets shower everybody with social services. i thought neither of those is good to work and neither is right. it is a false dichotomy. if we need to do both, there are better things we can do that. the council on criminal justice, we put together a group of folks going in this area, law enforcement areas.

they came up with a 10 part plan for specific actions we can take to reduce violence now. include putting the mayor in charge as opposed to the police chief. this is not just in law enforcement problem. you need to bring a full weight of conference of attacks from all departments in the city. that includes places like parks and rec which are responsible for making sure there are communities that have green space and are welcoming and not littered with trash. it includes all of these things. i am proud to say that were good this week the justice department released a roadmap for violence reduction where the organized millions of dollars in assistance that goes to local governments organized by the 10 point plan reproduced to give a roadmap to communities, mayors, and governors on how you can deploy resources across the whole of government in order to

reduce violence. host: let me come back to your statement about putting the mayors in charge instead of police. what is an example of a city that has put the mayor in charge of crime reduction and a city that has put the police in charge of crime reduction? guest: there are a number of examples. one that comes to mind is dallas which has a strong mayoral involvement and leadership from the police. what they have done is map out the city by grids and microgrids. crime is a place-based phenomenon. they are focused in on specific locations, stores, corners that are magnets for this activity. not just arrested people but have arrested people as possible for the collectivity. then brought in other preventative measures, including afterschool programs, summer

jobs for kids and things research has shown can make a short-term difference in the rate of violent crime. host: this is david waiting to chat with you. you are on with adam gelb. caller: i am wondering why the department of justice does not use the rico act to go after these organize national gangs causing all of this violence. like they did against the mafia in new york city. it brought down the five families. guest: i think some of that is happening but it is a great point, especially where we're hearing a lot from law enforcement and retailers about where there is threshold. that is the amount set in each individual state at which the amount of goods stolen becomes a felony as opposed to a misdemeanor and is subject to different penalties. many states have raised this felony threat -- felony theft

thresholds. many raised them enough to keep in pace with inflation. those were raised in the 1980's and unchanged. up to $1000 today, you have kept up with inflation. actually you have to raise it to $1200 to keep up with inflation. that is getting blamed for the sins of impunity people have. the caller's point is important because as people probably know, in drug cases, police tended to make repeated buys for people to get that equality up tickets to penalties. it seems the same would be in operation here. you can take someone down every single offense or you can different way. i am not saying it is a right way to do it, it just appears to be between that kind of tactic and a rico statute that there is a legal regime in place to go

after the guys who are doing this in any organized way. host: a question from our text messaging serce, this is from benjamin. why is crime higher in democrat run cities? is that true? guest: it is not true. crime has changed and risen and fallen in red cities and blue cities alike and in red states and blue states alike. it is also the case we have seen particularly in the last couple of years since corbett that there has been -- since covid that there has been a rise in rural crime as well. host: to mika, you are on. caller: i have a question and guest suggestion. a family, divorce lawyer is a transgender woman who commits crimes against children. does your guest have statistics on the number of sex crimes against children committed by

members of the lgbtq community versus people that are faith-based? guest: i do not. host: to albuquerque, new mexico. this is paul. caller: the national retail federation created this panic around retail theft. they admitted they were kind of lying about that. only 36% of what -- they call theft. that means 64% of what they lose is damaged goods, broken stuff, and stuff like that. do you have any comment on that? why is it not getting widely reported? host: i will let our guests chime in. david johnson at the national retail federation testified at the hearing we spoke about earlier. if you want to watch that hearing with the representative

of the national retail federation, c-span.org. type david johnson in the box at the top of the page. guest: that story has gotten widespread coverage, it is all over the place. reporters seem to be taking some delight in the notion that the retail federation had to walk that back. i am not sure why that is. it is critical to note that they did not walk back what they are saying is the total volume of loss due to theft. what they walked back is what share is attributable to organize retail crime. from my reading, it appeared to be an honest mistake. they had two data sources, one must total volume and another was an estimate half that total volume due to organized retail

theft. they recognized that there were some distinctions between the two data sources they were using. you cannot just apply that proportion to the total volume figure. i think it was special that they were willing to acknowledge that. i am not sure it changes dramatically the contours of the problem and the response that needs. host: just a couple of minutes before the house is scheduled to come in. this is delia in harlem. you are on with adam gelb. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am just appalled at what is going on in my state. i am from harlem from new york. to see the crime in new york is like nothing i have never seen. i myself am suffering from a domestic violence situation i have had to go to court for. it has been two years tried to get a simple order protection. you could not the corruption i

have faced trying to address crime in my own individual situation. i have seen nothing. the woman from north carolina, she is absolutely right and it comes to theft, about it being theft or smash and grab. smash and grab is being used to show the severity of how bad things are. but i understand what she means. host: i want to actually get an answer before the house comes in. guest: there is a crisis in staffing in the criminal justice system. crisis on the policing side has gotten the most focus. there has also been a crisis in the courts and in corrections. these systems are overloaded and widely backed up. it has been a focus on the correction agencies to figure out how they can dig out the covid hold.

we are in a place where there is not enough personnel to handle these cases the way they should. the way they should is not just pre-pandemic because i don't think anyone wasatisfied with how the cases were being handled. host: adam gelb is the ceo of the council on mental justice. counseloncj.org if you want to learn more. guest: thank you very much. host: that will do it for us. we are back tomorrow morning. we now take you live to the house of representatives. they are about to gavel in. soon after the gavel in, the final vote scheduled to take place around 5:00 p.m. eastern this afternoon. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023]