go and then go on. when the next presidential election comes along, then run. and he has caused so much hate and grief in this country by just not being able to stand up for what is right. host: joyce in pennsylvania, democratic caller. we will take a break. when we come back, the latest on the israel and hamas warrior. and later, joe mcreynolds claiming that chinese hackers are attacking critical u.s. infrastructure. it will be right back. -- we will be right back.

>> weeknights at 9:00 eastern. an encore presentation of our 10 part series, books that shaped america. exploring key pieces of literature that have had a profound impact on our country. tonight, we will feature the journals of lewis and clark. from 1804 to 1806. the guests is the author of several books. watch the encore presentation of books that shaped america on c-span, or go to c-span.org/books that shaped america to view the series and learn more about the future. -- feature. >> american history tv, saturday on c-span two, exploring the people and events that tell the american story.

from this year's george washington symposium, a discussion about the u.s. constitution and how it has evolved over more than two centuries. a tour of the smithsonian portrait galleries with portraits of the major players in the spanish-american war. at 8 p.m. -- 8:00 p.m. eastern, the life and presidency of jimmy carter. and at 9:30, those who serve back back terms in the white house hosted by the gerald ford foundation. exploiting the american story. watch american history tv.

>> watch the best of c-span's q&a. gospel scholar talks about her memoir, everything happens for a reason for reflecting on being diagnosed with colon cancer at the age of 30 five. sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span's q&a. you can listen to q&a and all of our podcasts on our free c-span app. host: inform policy directory with the brookings institution is here again to talk to us about israel and hamas conflict. we have seen headlines in recent days that tensions are rising. describe what is happening. guest: as you know, there are

iran based rebels. to the extent that the u.s. has been involved with it on the others, helping the government, although there is not much government left. 10 years worth of bad blood. they have decided at this particular moment to start shooting missiles and drones and a retaliation or escalation, or a spreading of the conflict. the u.s. has organized a coalition, mostly nato and middle eastern partners to escort ships along shipping lines that have decided to avoid the red sea as a result of this threat. it is not the end of the world, but it does add time and cost.

u.s. has organized this escort, in effect. i'm not sure how many ships will be involved. they are not known for having super sophisticated weaponry. they have already caused damage, but that is before the coalition and task force was organized by secretary austin. i think we will probably do pretty well to protect commercial shipping and restore some sense of calm and normalcy. even the occasional drone -- even in that event, you probably have limited damage, as opposed to a catastrophe. my hope and expectation is that this task force will be successful in restoring some degree of confidence. host: any concern of having a

beefed up presence in the area? guest: not yet. they do not like to say anything except that the world might end tomorrow. it is a little bit naive if bad things happen, but in this case, this kind of scenario plays to our relative strengths. they are figuring out where they have the missile launching bases . they still have to finish several miles, at least. we are out at sea. admittedly, these are close quarters, in maritime terms, but we are not facing a major maritime power. we had to dock our ships. if we really had to hug the coast with commercial ships, they had to be close.

that would be difficult. my expectation is that we do pretty well. host: what are the prospects for a paz in the war? and hopes of hostages being returned. guest: i think there are some prospects, especially if it is framed after the pause. people are saying this must be the end of the fighting, permanently. israel saw the cause for a p ause, i think it would be even more opposed. they would expect that it would create more pressure on them to stop before they have eliminated the hamas leadership. on the other hand, the hostages

present another reason to do a pause for a few days and get an exchange. in that regard, i would not be surprised. we know that israel has gone to extreme lengths to get one visitor or one hostage home. so that does create -- this one, i will not make any predictions. i'm more confident that the task force will succeed that i am about a potential paz in -- pause in gaza. host: here is a portion of remarks and how she reacted. [video clip] >> democracies are stronger and more secure when we uphold the

law of war. protecting palestinian citizens is a moral duty and a strategic imperative. we will continue to stand up for the right to defend themselves. we will continue to urge the protection of civilians during conflict and to increase the flow of humanitarian aid into gaza. that is important as israel fights to dismantle the terrorist infrastructure in gaza. it will be crucial for our work and for our partners, after the fighting stops. it's -- guest: the secretary has done a great job in the pentagon. that was one of his louder and more emphatic moments. second, we usually talk about the challenge and potential

difficulty of becoming secretary of defense. i have to say that they have both done great job. in this case, secretary austin actually benefits from having been general austin previously. no one on the face of the earth has had more experience in command, dealing with this than lloyd austin. he became the deputy commander in iraq during the surge and then he became the overall commander. there was a lot of fighting going on throughout iraq. and then he was the head of central command where the u.s. role was more air force oriented. but we helped rebuild the iraqi army after it was decimated by

isis. other people had key roles in that fight as well. his record was not perfectly successful. it was a tough fight, but he has learned from experience the difficulty of carrying out these kinds of urban campaigns in modern times, given the weaponry. i think the basic point that there is no military silver bullet -- it is about how fast u.n. decisively. i like to hope that his quiet style, combined with his firm but resolute demeanor is getting the message through to the israelis. urban fights are -- nothing about modern technology has made them any easier. titles pose a particular problem. there is dissenting difficulty

of locating and these are enormous challenges that there are not answers for. not quite down the path of sophisticated robotics, letting robots do the work for us or for the israelis. therefore, austin is right. it will be difficult, step-by-step. it will not have a clear ending point. potentially creating more enemies with a hard fisted approach. the israelis seem to acknowledge some of this. they did not have a battle plan for how to flesh out before october 7. they are feeling their way. they used way too much in my judgment. certainly in secretary austin's judgment. what i think they are beginning to understand at the way they continue this fight has to be more targeted and limited.

host: refugees are crowding the borders. you say israel is learning. many palestinians have been killed. around 60,000 wounded. the u.n. estimates 85% of .2 million people have been displaced. guest: i have no reason to doubt any of those numbers. they have been pretty fair-minded and accurate at estimating casualties of their own people. historically, we have not seen them do that. those numbers do not strike me as unbelievable in any way, shape or form. huge numbers have been displaced. most of the population, most of those who live in gaza and have

been internally displaced just underscores the humanitarian tragedy. wintry conditions, even if not as extreme as other countries to the north are still serious for people who do not have shelter, enough food or medicine. we need to find a way to dramatically keep it ending the humanitarian aid for the palestinians in gaza. we need a pause in the fight and for the nature of the fighting. it might go into the winter, even into the new year. the israelis are going to have to find a way to allow augmentation for humanitarian relief as they limit military operations. host: this is a picture from the front page of the washington post.

food is scarce. issues with committee a water have been reported. this is under the headline of pressure. historically talking about egypt and israel's relationship and why they would not accept refugees. guest: their relationship is pragmatic, if not warm. when president carter helped with this reconciliation. even though egypt has gone through different leadership and now has a strong presence and power, who just won an election this week, nonetheless, there is disability to do business and a common concern in cairo and

jerusalem is the desire to not see hamas empowered, not to support extremist violence, bearing in mind that those kinds of groups have sometimes interfered in egypt's politics and that the president of egypt was assassinated by extremists in his own country. egypt is not what any part of the extremist violence but they do not necessarily want refugees coming out of gaza. people have an interest in solving problems locally but do not yet have an answer for how to do that yet. host: you can join the conversation. your question and comments are welcome. republicans can call at (202) 748-8001.

democrats can call at (202) 748-8000. independent can call and (202) 748-8002. we will also respond on social media. spring valley, new york on the republican line. caller: the jewish people -- the jewish people over 3000. it is a fact of history. the second thing, the jewish people -- host: any reaction to those comments? guest: there are a couple of things you can say.

one is about how powerfully historic narrative is and how both sides feel very strongly. yes, jewish presence goes back millennia, before the time of christ. moreover, the last couple of centuries, european power was backed by the u.s. and plays politics and has built empires at the expense of the arabs, and they were expected to solve a problem that europeans had created, making jewish people feel unwelcome. i'm not trying to dock either of these narratives. they compete and they have strong elements of reality or history behind them, even though opponents twist then for their

own. but both have deep roots in this region. the palestinian people and the jewish people essentially share the land, divided up and share the land that modern-day israel either owns, claims or controls. the other point is that i understand c-span divides their lines. i'm not sure where this issue tends to divide people. it tends to be more about age. people my age are more sympathetic towards israel and younger people are more synthetic towards the palestinian cause. as we have seen, this is an issue that has generational distinction split. that is just my own thought.

host: no, we appreciate the five, absolutely. but what about the progressive part of the party that says that protesters of all ages is talking about genocide and president biting -- president biden being part of it? guest: it is more of the pro-palestinian protesters. they are deeply concerned and correct to be worried about the palestinian population in gaza. but the split, to me is even more striking. secondly, i think that where genocide gets used inappropriately in a lot of contexts. i do not view israelis -- i do not think critics should use

that term. israel is not trying to kill the people, they are trying to overthrow hamas. they are using the wrong kind of force in ways that raise concerns about the rules of war and you could even argue that it sometimes approaches the level of specific war crime, but it is not genocide. genocide is the disconnect killing of people simply because of their identity. that is not what is going on. even those of us that criticize israel avoid the use of that term. host: democratic collar. caller: how are you? i am 61 years old and proud to be an american. you take my dna and i think it would trace me back to africa. if you trace the majority of