prosperity gospel scholar talks about her memoir, reflecting a being diagnosed with stage iv colon cancer at the age of 35. sunday night at 8 p.m. eastern on c-span's q&a. you can listen on our free c-span now app. >> all next week, book tv's afterwords is in prime time were nonfiction authors are interviewed by journalists, legislators and more on their latest book. monday night at 8 p.m. eastern, karqa fitzpatrick looking at school choice movement as the future of education american is interviewed by the washington post education reporter. watch all next week in prime time at 8 p.m. eastern on c-span. also go to c-span.org to get the complete schedule.

>> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back. i am joint by the cheap policy officer for the national alliance to end homelessness. welcome to the program. guest: thanks for having me. host: this is the wall street journal with this headline -- why did it go up so high? guest: there are short and long-term things. i think there were eight programs during covid that ended that were helping states of money to help people pay rent. those programs ended and we are seeing a lot of people, first-time homeless but the longer-term trend is a long-term trend in housing with rental housing getting more expensive. there's the trend of modest

rents for a apartment going up faster than wages in a modest job. that's been going on for decades and it's really starting to overwhelm people. host: how was this count done? how do you really count homelessness? guest: these annual accounts are done in each community as they get organized and get a lot of volunteers to come out and go out over the course of a couple of nights in january. they find people who are living on the streets to get some basic information from them and get a go count and then people who are staying in shelters or tempar housing are easier to count. the people running the shelters know how many people are there. host: host: and families with children, that rate has also gone up. guest: yeah, and not as fast.

that was particularly sort of a good news story from the covid era that because of some of these assistance programs targeting to families with kids, there were a lot fewer families falling into homelessness because of those assistance programs. but then those have ended and now we're seeing an increase there as well. host: and if you would like to talk to our guest, steve berg about the homelessness in america and that rate, you can do so on our line by region, this time. so if you're in the eastern or central time zones, it's 202-748-8000, mountain or pacific, 202-748-8001. you can also send us a text at 202-748-8003. and we're also on facebook and twitter. what do you say to people that say, look, you know, homelessness has gone up. it continues to go up. all these federal programs and

all this money that's going into it, it's just not working? guest: unfortunately, the federal programs are not funded at the level that needs solve the problem. it's interesting to compare the housing programs with health care programs, for example. the health care programs are entitlement money. everyone who's eligible for the medical program gets help. so people in nursing homes and medicaid pays for 40% of americans who are in nursing homes and anyone that's eligible goats help. whereas the housing programs, they're funded like to serve about a quarter of the people who are eligible. and the other three quarters just go on a weight list and wait sometimes for years to get any help. so the federal funding in the

housing area is really falling short, i'm afraid. host: so does what does the federal government need to do besides more funding? guest: yeah. so the more funding is important as i said. homelessness is essentially a housing problem. and the housing is expensive and it's getting more expensive and the federal programs just aren't keeping up at all. there are -- the federal government funds homeless programs in every community that help find people who are homeless and keeps them safe and provide shelters, short-term temporary housing for people and then helps them wade through whatever bureaucracy they had to wade through in order to try to get housed. those programs are important, again, not funded at the level that they need to be to really serve everybody. and then i think the other thing that's important is health care. i mean, there's a lot of health care issues among the homeless

population whether it's behavioral health care or substance abuse, mental health problems but just a lot of physical health problems. people being or released from the hospital and they don't have a place to live and they go right to the street. you see people living on the streets with serious medical conditions. host: how big of a problem is mental health issues? on the homeless population? guest: the data shows that maybe a quarter of the people who are homeless have some sort of mental health problem, a lot of times, serious mental health problems. it's not like everybody that's homeless or mentally ill or even most people. but 25% is more than in the general population. so the homeless programs, that ends up being communities

responsive to mental illness, a lot of times because a lot of people have trouble getting treatment. the treatment is, they're not available or it's underfunded or there's bureaucratic rules to try to get into the treatment. so a lot of people just end up on the streets with the mental health problem. host: so there's people that are like first-time homeless or temporarily homeless and then there's the chronic homeless. first, how do you define chronic homelessness and what's the difference in the policies that would alleviate the kind of the first-timers and the chronic? guest: so chronic homeless is basically people who are homeless a long time and tend to be people with disabilities with health issues, behavioral health issues which is why they stay homeless for a long time because

it's hard to find a landlord who will rent to people. there are sort of program models, if you will, the people who run these homeless programs have figured out over the years how marley effective for people with -- who have been homeless for a long time and have a disability maybe a mental disability, the intervention, they use the name permanent support of housing. sot's a long-term rent so they n't be able to pay rent themselves so much they get help paying the present and they also get a menu of supportive services that include mental health treatment in order to stay stable in their houses. now other people that don't have those more severe problems, they might have just fallen in homelessness recently because of a string of bad luck. for people like that, we usually find it a much shorter term

intervention works really well. and then people come and help them deal with whatever they're dealing with, usually getting a job at the v.a., the department of veterans affairs runs a really good program for veterans in that kind of situation. so that's one of the models. host: and i wanted to ask you about that and we will start taking calls shortly, but the veterans -- homelessness of veterans has been going down but then you said sit went back up. why? guest: this is same reasons. people are dealing with increased housing costs. housing going -- the cost of a housing going up faster than wages. and then these other kinds of, you know, covid era sorts of issues. so we're just seeing a lot of people falling into homelessness for the first time. host: let's talk to callers.

anthony is in new york. good morning. caller: good morning, mimi, how are you? >> good. caller: thank you. the thing is i work as a homeless outreach worker as well as a social work therapist in new york state prisons. and i am coming from the angle of the psychological damage of poverty that the economy creates a lot of poverty itself. and in order to try to address the horrible cycle of self-blame and depression, sometimes in an abstract psychological way and i went into work before i did a group for the gentleman and i said gentlemen, on the way to work, i spotted a homeless unemployed squirrel and we -- so abstract but we were all born at

home and we're all born employed and i knew to take away the abstract of self-blame and depression. because the economy creates a problem and you end up homeless or unemployed and it can really is kind of silly but the reality of it -- not silly at all. i just want to address that abstract part of it. guest: well, first, thank you for the work you're doing. that's such important work. the connection between the prison and homelessness is way too prevalent and it's so important that i think more and more state prisons are having these kinds of programs to help people avoid homelessness when they get out. so thanks for your work. host: melissa is next in friday harbor, washington. good morning, melissa. caller: good morning. i have been incarcerated. i've been in the foster care system.

i've been homeless. i've had and had friends who both had addiction problems and died from their addiction problems. when i was in jail, most of the women in there were in there for drug possession, for financial crimes, check hiding, basically and prostitution. and it was pretty evident that most of them -- the cars rated system was not doing them any good. people certainly have problems who were in the prisons but nobody's doing it by choice. nobody's doing it because they're trying to take advantage of somebody and the systems that are available are overwhelmed. they're not -- especially effective in a lot of cases and actually abusive in others.

and so i just -- i would -- i think that addressing the root causes, the things that make people, not make them, because it's choice, but that cause them to feel so desperate that they have to behave in things that they know are not right are probably a better way to look at it than the sort of reactionary sort of last-minute, you know solutions that lot of people, a lot of lawmakers, a lot of advocates, even, seem to come up with. host: what do you think, steve? guest: yeah, thanks for sharing that. i think you're absolutely right. we know what to do about all of these problems. i mean, there's places around the country where you can point to programs that are really working for people and getting great results.

but unfortunately, they're not available either because the funding just isn't sufficient or people running -- make them really follow the most best and most effective practices. host: cindy in florida. you're next. caller: yes. i wanted to talk about the homelessness in florida. i want to read something. i looked at the homelessvoice.org and also around where i live and it says florida has once again found itself leading the country in homelessness with an almost 20% increase from last year by mckenna homelessness in florida. it's up 19%. our homelessness in florida is hidden in plain sight.

this is a vacation spot. the police make the homelessness get up and move out and they don't -- a lot of people live in their cars underneath the causeway and then the police runs them out because they don't want to show the vacation people the homelessness that we have here in downtown saint pete. they're destroying the homes to build multi-million-dollar sky scrape condos? i mean the homelessness here is not transparent. and it needs to be. and the hoards of transplants coming in and they are increasing the prices in florida of $350,000 houses now are sacks. it's just incredible what is

going on here. and people don't see it. it needs to be transparent what is going on here in florida. host: what do you think? guest: yeah, this is one of the reasons the issue of transparency is one of the reasons why things like this, these homeless counts are important. i mean, it's just -- it's gotten a lot of news these recent figures and in florida, it's gotten a lot of news. and we're hopeful that this will sort of wake people up a little bit to the extent of the problem all over the country. and to the fact that there are solutions. because you can look at other places even though nationwide the numbers went up, there were places where the numbers went down pretty substantial and a lot of it is because as i said, we know what to do and they're doing what we know works. host: we got this on x.

can the guest comment on using e preferred term of unhoused people instead of homeless, emphasizing humanity and avoiding sticking my accusation -- stigmatization? guest: i think emphasizing humanity is really important. the most important thing is anybody who's thinking about or talking about this problem looks deep within themselves to make sure that they are getting that these are our fellow americans, human beings who are having a really hard time. host: let's talk to sheryl in manteca, california. caller: thank you so much for taking my call. you know, i live in california and of course, i see a lot of

people that are unhoused and living on the streets. and, you know, to me, where i think the problem is is that, you know, instead of us looking at these people as human beings that, you know, need help, you know, we kind of stigmatize the situation. my solution to it is because we have homeless in just about every city in this country, why not set up tent cities? take some designated land that, you know, we have, allow people to put their tents there, bring in, you know, the facilities where they can take a shower, they can use the restroom, and then provide, you know, transportation and the things, you know, that give them the quality of life that they would have if they had a roof over

their heads because then, you're giving them a leg up, you know? and then you can deal with, you know, separating those who, you know, are going to be homeless because they're dealing with mental illness from those who just had a bad break in life and all they need is to have an address in order and resources in order to get a job so they can get a roof over their heads? right now, we're just throwing money at a situation that we cannot solve unless we look at it holistically. you know, and this country has the money and the land and the resources to, you know, do this and do it right. and that is my comment, and thank you. host: what do you think? guest: thank you. well i think the idea that dealing with the problem holistically is very important. i mean, the cities have tried

the idea of tent cities somewhere sort of out of town and it just -- it doesn't really work very well. people who were homeless, they need jobs and the jobs are not out somewhere in some rural areas. the jobs are in the cities where they are. that's the reason a lot of people who are homeless are in the cities in the first place because they want jobs and that's where they are. the programs are in the cities. the mental health treatment facilities are there. so it's important to have temporary places for people to stay until they can get actual housing, but we tend to favor sort of buildings with roofs and heating systems for that. host: well, here's another thing that's going on. this is on fox 23 news dot-com

with this headline. oklahoma town passes ordinance to ticket people who are experiencing homelessness. what do you think about that? guest: yeah, the term criminalization of homelessness is something that's, you know, people have done in this country for a long, long, long time. and what you get is a bunch of people who are in and out of jail with criminal records that was like, they send a solution give people jobs that having a criminal record just makes it harder to get a job, harder to present an apartment. so, you know, locking people up for being homeless besides possibly being against the contribution of the united states is also very bad homeless policy because it just makes the problem harder to solve. host: and al this new jersey. good morning.

caller: how are you doing? it's funny i put on the tv c-span that they always watch and i got to say, my story. i was homeless. so i know all about this. it's a failed system. if you don't have a job, i applied for social security. took forever to get my check. that wasn't enough income just to pay for anywhere to live. i applied in all the places that are low-income housing. they take six, seven years just to get your name to come up on the list. a lot of them are full. you still don't get enough on your check because of your rent and everything. because it's not enough financially. and all my friends live with their parents. and they were many their 30's and 40's. they became homeless and applied for low income in philadelphia.

it's a broken system. without finances, you are going to be homeless for a long time unless your family helps you or you finally get in low income. but that will be years to wait on the list. and i lived in my car. it was terrible. this is a broken system that needs to be re-up graded and fixed. i don't see nothing good happening. i just got lucky after so many years of being homeless. thank you. host: al, when you said you got lucky, were you on the waiting list or what happened? how did you get that low income house something. caller: i just put -- my name in the place in new jersey and it just happen to be -- they came open at that time and i got in in about a month or two.

i just -- the lady said i hit the lottery and that's just what happened. host: and are you working now? caller: no, i'm on social security disability. because of what happened it took so long for my social security to be approved and that's when i had money to pay my rent because they do a background check and the poor people don't have a lot of income or social security or money coming in, they're in trouble. because with the finances that you need to be approved, you're going to stay -- you're going to still be homeless and have nowhere to stay. host: all right. caller: yeah, everything just fell in place, but man, all my friends of philadelphia, we all put applications in low income house and there -- it was all you hear. you got be 55 and older. you had to make a certain amount of money. you got to put your name on the list.

they would call you. it was terrible. it was terrible. host: what do you think, steve? guest: this is what i was referring to that the programs are not being funded to do the job they're supposed to do. so people end up on waiting lists. the issue of social security disability, that's how people with severe disabilities are supposed to be able to meet their living expenses and be able to pay rent but that program -- one, the story about how long it takes to be found eligible are region and two, as time goes on, the social security benefits and the s.s.i. benefits don't keep up with the rising costs of housing.

that's a continuing problem. and it also hits people with disability and for people who are older, too. one of the things that we're seeing in some of these accounts and data testimonies that we pick up from different communities is the number of older people who for the first time in their life at age 50 or 55 or 60 are becoming homeless because they can't work anymore or the kind of jobs they had, they can't do any more because sort of a physical breakdown or somebody has a disability and is living with their parents for a long time. their parents die. and then they are left out on the streets. so this is an increasing problem of older adults experiencing homelessness. host: pensacola, florida. ridge, good morning. caller: i volunteered at a

homeless shelter for years and you are correct that cost for paying rent and getting into apartment is astronomical but what i see is the drug and alcoholism addictions in this country. and until we solve that, it's just going to be a vicious circle. because my friends tell me why can't they just get a job? well, they can't work an eight-hour job because of their addiction and alcoholism. and until we get that figured out, it's just going to be a continuing problem. and i thank you for taking my call. guest: thank you. i mean, that raises an important issue. not everybody who's homeless has an addiction, but the homeless system ends up dealing with a lot of people who do. there are treatments for many of these addictions that work

really well if people can get them. but just as the previous caller was talking about, the problems getting signed over by social security or the problem getting an addiction treatment program are very difficult and it takes a lot of people a long time. there's just not enough help. host: let's go to sherman oaks, california with gregory. good morning. caller: hello. i have two solid ideas, i think that would be helpful to an unhoused and homeless people. here's the first. who things that we rarely hear mentioned together. two big problems -- homelessness and climate. nobody >> we are going to leave this discussion, but you can watch it on the c-span now video app, as we take you to the council on foreign relations. virtual discussion