intel committee goes to m.i.t.. m.i.t. developed a course to teach everybody in congress. i've done small things in congress, tried to teach people. you just have to walk through a magnetometer to get into the chambers. you didn't have to show up to work. bills to have to go through committee. you had an entire structure to trust each other. i create movie night trying to get people to work together. we can worry and pick little things apart or we can decide, america has to look at problems further along and figure out how we do this in a collective way together. >> i wish we had more time. we don't. thank you for joining us. [applause]

[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪ >> in partnership with the library of congress, c-span brings you "books that shaped

america." our series explores key worvetion literature that have had a profound impact on the country. in this program, willa cather's 1918 novel, "my antonia." set on the nebraska prairie at the end of the 19th century, it's told through the reminiscences of jim, an orphan by, who traveled west to live with his grandparents he befriends the daughter of their immigrant neighbor, antonia. when jim and his grandparents move into town, antonia begins to work for their neighbors. jim goes to college and returns less and less. as the book comes to a close, he reunites with ant knee yasm after years struggle, she has 10 children and a farm of her own, her version of the american dream. the novel was well-received and mirrored part of waiter's own

life. she traveled west as a young child where she met the inspiration for the novel. red cloud and its people played prominent role in her work. later in life, in 1934, she said, "my antonia," in my opinion, is by far the best of all my contributions. host: welcome to "books that shaped america," our c-span series that looks at how books throughout our history have influenced who we are today in. partnership with the library of congress this 10-week series has been exploring different topics, viewpoints, and eras and we're glad you're joining us for this walk through history. so far in the series, we've looked at early america, its growth, the era of slavery, and the development of the law. we've also started to explore classic novels, including "huckleberry finn." tonight it's the immigrant

experience and a novel by the award-winning author, willa cather. "my antonia," from 1918, is a book which introduced readers to life on the prairie. it became a classic and put cather at the forefront of american writers. our guest tonight to help us learn about the impact "my antonia" had on our literature and our nation is melissa hom sted. she's an english professor at the university of nebraska, lincoln. she's director the cather project. she's co-editor of the complete letters of willa cather. and she's author of the only wonderful thing -- "the only wonderful things," the creative partnership of willa cather and edith lewis. when did willa cather come into your life? guest: the first time i read cather was in 1980, one of my favorite professors at -- teacher, at freedom high school

in bethlehem -- bethlehem, pennsylvania, suggested i read cather because i was looking for a topic for a college application essay looking for people alive in 1902 to invite to a dinner. i ended up reading "my antonia" and "oh pioneers" in one weekend. i liked "oh pioneers" better at first but by time i graduated from college i'd read "my antonia" more than 25 times. host: they're part of the prairie trilogy. guest: there's not real y a prairie trill jism one book that's usually included in that trilogy was set in colorado, not on the prairie at all, though they all three do feature immigrant or children of immigrant heroinies.

host: when "my antonia" came out in 1918 did it have an impact? guest: it had a strong critical reception and had several strong reviews. cathers her said there weren't many strong reviews and piem didn't understand it but that was not true, i have ad several strong reviews from the time. i think one of the things she wanted to do was make people understand the importance of immigration to nebraska and in particular the heroine of the novel was bohemian or czech, a population being targeted for exclusion from immigration at the time and indeed were fectively minimized or excluded in the 1924mmigration act because easternopea lost the portion of allowable immigration under that law. so i don't think that that part succeeded. her argument, her pro-immigration argument didn't succeed, but i do think that it opened up the pioneer experience

and -- in well-regarded, critically regarded literature. host: what about women's issues? guest: i'm not sure cather was foe cushion on women's issues as women's issues. she herself wasn't a feminist. the narrator of "my antonia" is a man who actually criticized feminists. he doesn't criticize them. there's a narrator of the introduction who is willa cather, though not named. jim burden is introduced and the narrator, willa cather, criticizes his wife, general vaive whitney, because she's involved in suffrage and supports labor unions, so feminism isn't really advanced as a political cause in the novel. host: our partner in this endeavor, "books that shaped america" is the library of congress we traveled up there to see an original edition of "my antonia." here's what it looks like. here's what the library said

about "my antonia." this novel explores both the immigrant experience and the issues facing women in the move west across the continent. this is taking place in the late 1800's. correct? guest: correct. 18 80's and 18 90's and it flashes forward at the end to about the moment of publication. host: nebraska becama state i believe in 162. that was it like in the late 18 80's when ant nia -- when antonia was out there? guest: well, it was for the european american pie neerks whether they were settled americans who were just called americans, or more recent immigrants it was a challenging experience. indigenous people had recently been removed, they seem to be long gone in the gavel but they were only about 10 years gone from webster county. willa cather's aunt mary -- wait a we could. amanda smithher, she wrote

to her classmates at mount holyoke college about native peoples still hunting in the area through the 18 20's. for willa it seemed new and empty but it hadn't been long. host: do they play a role in the novel? guest: no. there's a circle where they are described as having -- it's debated were they torturing prison norse training horses, but it was a faint circle in the grass. host: is that an oversight in your view by cate her guest: no, i don't think it's an oversight. i think it's the way the dominant culture operated. you just banished people who were there before, it would have

been the pawnee. host: describe blackhawk, nebraska. guest: it's a more populous place then than it is now, it was the basis for red cloud. it had about 10,000 people then, about 1,000 now. it was a stop on the train. there were traveling troupes of artists coming thru, they'd come through from denver, omaha, chismg it was a bulsing market town for an agriculture area but still a small town and you get a fair sense of that in the novel, a small town where everybody knows everyone's business, jim burden feels bored when he moves into town with his grandparents. host: some of the main characters are based on people willa knew. was jim burden based on somebody she knew? guest: there have been theories

about his name and where it might have comefrom some of the experiences in the book are her own experiences she gives to jim. other she is didn't really directly have. for example, the pro to type for antonia, her father had killed himself before cather and her family moved to the area, that was a story she heard not something she experienced. other people, so the miner family that become the harvetion rlings, in particular, mrs. harling, told two of her daughters that was as close as she came to a portrait of a straight up person. otherwise she was mixing together bits and pieces of various people and adapting them to her own purposes. host: if a student came to you and said, i want to read "my antonia," what advice would you give? gu iork your

way through. host: willa cather's statue was inveiled at the u.s. capitol this summer. we want to show you a little bit of the event. you were at the unveiling. guest: yes, i was. host: what was that like? guest: it was entertaining. it was also very crowded. you'll see, i think, i don't know if we'll see that she's next to chief standing bear who also was brought in as one of the representatives of nebraska. they replaced william jennings bryan and jay sterling morgan as the statues in statuary hall. as i went over today to visit the statue and get a picture of myself with it, she's not in the rotunda because they can only have 37 statues in the rotunda

at a time, because of the weight, they can't support all of them, so she's in the visitor's center. host: the sculpture, what's unique about him? guest: he was the first african-american to sculpt one of the sculptures mand maybe -- and maybe any of the part in the capitol he was from washington, d.c. and but now teaches in omaha. host: at the same event, there was a reading from "my antonia." >> i first heard of antonia on what seemed to me an interminable journey across the midland plain of north america. i was 10 years old, i had lost both my father and mother in a year and my virginia relatives were sending me out to my grandparent whs lived in nebraska. i traveled in the care of a

mountain boy, jake, one of the hands on my father's ole farm under the blue ridge who was now going west to work for my grandfather. we went all the way in day coaches, becoming more sticky and grimy with each stage of the journey. beyond chicago we were under the protection of a friendly passenger conductor who knew all about the country to which we were going and gave us a great deal of advice in exchange for our confidence. once when he sat down to chat, he told us that in the immigrant car ahead, there was a family from across the water. whose destination was the same as ours. i do not remember crossing the missouri river or anything about the long days' journey through nebraska. probably by that time i had crossed so many rivers that i was dull to them. the only thing very noticeable about nebraska was that it was still all day long nebraska.

[laughter] i had been sleeping kurld up in a red plush seat for a long while when we reached blackhawk we stumbled down from the train to a wooden siding where men were running about with lanterns. i couldn't see any town or even distant lights. we were surrounded by utter darkness. in the red glow from the fire box, a group of people stud huddled together on the platform encumbered by bundles and boxes. i knew this must be the immigrant family the conductor had told us about. the woman wore a fringed shawl tide over her head and carried a little tin trunk in her arms, hugging it as if it were a baby. there was an old man, tall and stooped, two half grown boys and a little girl clung to her mother's skirts. presently, a man with a lantern approached them and began to talk, shouting and exclaiming. i perked up my ears for it was

positive the first time i had ever heard a foreign tongue. another lantern came along, a bantering voice called out, he willlow, are you mr. burden's folks? fur it's me you're looking for. i'm otto. i'm mr. burden's hired man and i'm here to drive you. he led us to a hitching bar where two farm wagons were tide and i saw the foreign family crowding into one of them. the other was for us. jake sat on the front seat with otto and i rode on the straw in the bottom of the wagon box covered up with a buffalo hide. the imgrans rumbled off into the empty darkness and we followed them. i tried to go to sleep but the jolting made me bite my tongue and i soon began to ache all over. cautiously i slipped from under the buffalo hide, got up on my knees and peered over the wagon. there seemed to be nothing to

see. no fences. no creeks. no trees. no hills or fields. if there was a road, i could not make it out in the faint starlight. there was nothing but land. not a country at all. but the material out of which clints are made. host: professor, you were reciting along with laura lunsden-black there. she talks about the country almost as a character. guest: yes. one of willa cather's contemporaries, mary austin, wrote about regionalism in literature. she was unhappy with cather's representations of the u.s. in the 19 20's, but said the -- what makes regionalism regionalism is the land is a character. you can say that of cather's

nebraska book. host: this was the beginning of the book she was reading. guest: yes, very beginning after the introduction. host: and there's a little humor. why did willa cather hyphenate everything? hyphenate the words? she hyphenated all the words? guest: which words? host: in my version she hyphenated every word. married like mar-ied. guest: that must be your version. host: oh good. we'll leave that alone. do you have a favorite passage? begin there's a -- an austrian

cowboy who is increasingly my favorite. it's interesting tv an austrian cowboy. there's also a character in one of her other novels, a cowboy. i love the idea that this is the sort of second instantia tirvetion on of that character. he's marvelous. i have a passage about him. he was mentioned in that opening passage. he's with jim burden work jake, and they buy jesse james dime novels. they're getting into the westernster y type. as we sat at the table, this is at the home of his grandparents, the farm, when they get there. ke kept stealing covert glances at each other. grandmother told me while she was getting supper he was an austrian who came to this country as a young boy and led an advench rouse life in the far west among mining camps and cow outfits.

his iron constitution was somewhat broken by mountain pneumonia and he drifted back to live in milder country for a wild he had relatives in a settlement north of us but for a year now he had been working with grandpa. immediately after supper, he took me back in the kitchen to whisper that there was a horse bought for me. he told me everything i wanted to know how much he lost his ear when he was a stable drive for the a blizzard how much to throw a las zoe. he promised to rope a steer for me before sundown the next day he got out his chaps and silver spurs to show to jake and me and his best cowboy boot, stop stitch -- top stitched in bold desierntion roses and lovers' knots and undraped female figures.

these he said were angels. i know last week about huk finn that it was in the bys' vis. this is not in the boy's voice. jim burden is a middle-aged man in new york. you get moments of him recreating that childhood perception. the childhood eyes. and the undraped female figures who were angels, right. you have that sense of him as about a 10-year-old boy with his cowboy, meeting his first real cowboy. he's recreating his experience of child hoovmed host: was there a "go west young man" sense to this book? guest: it's a little later than the horace greeley "go west young man" moments. you have the railroad. you don't have the conestoga weapon, you have the immigrant car or the day coach like he and jake are in. the day coach. so it's a little bit of a later

moment. it isn't really the early homesteading moment so the grandparents are based on cather's own grandparents to an extent. they were homesteaders under the homestead act but that was 10 years earlier. at this point it was mostly land transactions. people proved up their claims and took possession of them or you were buying railroad land, the railroads were given a lot of land to sell. this is a sort of different moment from that. host: good evening and thanks for joining us here on "books that shaped america." this is our seventh show. tonight we're look at "my antonia" by willa cather. these books on "books that shaped america" are not necessarily best sellers. they are not the best books in america. they are books that have had an impact on society at the time that they were written and today. and we chose this list from our partner, the library of congress' larger list of 100 books that shaped america.

so we're pleased that you're joining us for the willa cather show. we'd love to hear from you 202 is the area code. 748-8920 in the eastern time zone. 202-748-2921 in the mountain and pacific time zone. for text messages only, 202-74-8003. a reminder to include your first name and city if you do send a text. our guest tonight is with the university of nebraska-lincoln. her name is melissa holmsted shoosmest -- she's an english professor, director of the cather project, coed tore of "the complete letters of willa cather," and author of "the only wonderful things: the partnership of willa cather and edith lewis," which we'll talk

about in maine. we talked about immigration. we want to give you a sense of what the country was like in the 18 80's, where this book is set, even though it was written in 1918. the great wave of immigratio was ongoing, about 12 million immigrants arrived in the u.s. between 1870 and 1900. for the pop -- the population is approaching 70 million at this point. the largest number of those immigrants came from northern europe. the new immigrants were coming from southern and eastern europe as well. including bohemia which we'll talk about. were those southern and eastern european immigrants welcomed as much as the northern european immigrants? guest: no, they weren't. there was a very vigorous discussion amongst anglo americans about what the true american character should be. northern europeans were

considered good because they were mostly christian. southern and eastern europe were considered off-white and they were largely catholic and jewish. they were considered to be not truly qualified to be american citizens by many people debating laws and setting policy. host: and the bohemians who arrived in willa cather's nebraska? guest: they were -- you get a sense in the book, when for example, when jim has killed a snake and antonia is praising his bravery and he said, why go jabbering bohunk, saying bohunk rather than bohemian was an ethnic slur, diminhing her for failing to speak english and failing to communicate with hi host: were there laws to prevent or restrict immigration at the time? guest: i think in 1917 there were the first restrictions, though they weren't quite quo t. in 1921 there's an emergency

quota act. in 1924, the policy for immigration quaw toes comes in really strongly for the first time and it was the proportion of immigrants in the 18 90's that sethe proportion going forward which is to say, northern european immigrants were privileged and southern and eastern european imgrants had a difficult time getting in. host: you menged the homestead act we visited the home stad national park near beatriz, nebraska, here's a little piece from that. [video clip] we're here at the national homestead park, dedicated to remembering the leg sthoifs homestead act of 1862. the homestead act was an opportunity to earn 160 acres of land to any man, or a woman if she was head of household and over 21 years of age.

this was 60 years before women could vote, they had a pathway to landownership. you didn't have to be an american citizen to start the process, you declared your intention to become a citizen. people came from all over the world in response to the homestead act. i'm standing in a cabin that was built in 1867 and would have been extremely nice. we are looking at the interior, the lower level would have been where the adults slept. there was an upper level where the children would sleep. as you can see the interior isn't very big. a lot of the activities would have taken place outside. much of the cooking, the washing, a lot of the daily efforts. the homestead act was an opportunity to earn 160 acres. you had to live on the land for five years. you had to build a shelter this one is built of wood and bricks. a lot would have been dugout, you know, sides of hills, cave-like struck chowrs sod houses that used the prairie grass to keep dirt bricks

together. you also had to improve the land. cultivating a crop. this would have been a whole family effort. even during school time, if it was time to harvest, or it was time to tsao and put the seeds -- to sow and put the seeds in the grounds, the kids, especially the boy, would be focused on that. because having a successful homestead was dependent on meeting all those requirements. during this time period, we really see the value of a home and the place of your own. and the american dream really becomes landownership. because in europe it's extremely difficult to acquire land. success looks different in america, especially when we move into the 18 80's and we get closer to the 1900's or the 19-teens when the book was written. for some women like lena that's having her own business. living independently. for people like antonia, it's

going to be that american dream of landownership a place that's your own. belongs to you. that you work that land and you survive off the produce of that land. that that continues to be a central part of the american dream for many people and for many families. when people come to homestead national historic park i hope they see what a significant part of the national story the homestead act was. it lasted 123 years. it was in 30 of the 50 states. as many as one in three americans or 93 million americans are descended from a homesteader. as much as 10% of all land in this country was directly settled through this act. i hope people walk away with the significance of that. and that this duly made a difference in the shaping of the country. when we look at a map in 1860, we see a lot of territories. by 1900, most of the american west are states. that is because of the homestead

act. host: melissa homsted, great last name, what was the impact of the homestead act? guest: it was part of the displacement of native people from nebraska. the reservation, the native peoples from nebraska were removed north and south to become settler -- for nebraska to become a settler state. it did transform nebraska from indigenouser to to settled agricultural territory. host: when the southern europeans and the eastern europeans and the african-americans were taking advantage of the homestead act were they settling in specific communities or areas? guest: inow that african-american stlement was

largely in dewitte, a northern part of nebraska. certainly people heard about the experience people from their own communities, they would follow. even to get a little bit of that in "my antonia," the man from whom antonia's family bias their property was the original homesteader of that property. he was also czech. you'll have those kinds of connections. in that county there were not that many czechs, the also the scanned thank that you see. host: moved to nebraska age 9. also lived and worked in pennsylvania, new york and new hampshire. 12 novels, 60 short stories. pulitzer prize for "one of ours," died in 1947 in new york city. why did her family move when she was age 9?

guest: well, there were stories about the family barn being burned down that might have had to do with union sim thinks during the civil war but that's never been substantiated. the biggest reason was that most of the family had already gone so that were the sort of last bunch of migrants from northbound to virginia. actually, her four father, before he got married -- in 1 1 he went fifth west, to the southwest a couple of times and was considering setting up a stock raising business there. was a sheep farmer and he didn't do that. they were already thinking about west every before she was born. host: melissa homestead, let's get to some calls and texts. and we're going to start with a text message. i'm interested in melissa's last name homestead. if anything is relevant to the plains, it's the homestead act. what is the relevance of your

name? guest: homestead in this case has nothing to be with american homesteading. him paternal grandfather's step father, his last anymore was a farm name in norway. most people in norway unless early in elites did not have surnames at all and then they took the name of farm names where they worked. it's a very rare farm name in norway. he and his brother moved to new york and aingely sidessed it to homestead. in cather's family, it was her grandparents work homesteader who took a claim and proved up that claim and owned agricultural land and when willa cather moved out. she and her family were in the countryside on a farm for about a year before moving into town and her father went into farm

loan insurance in town. host: let's take some calls. jesse from albuquerque. please go ahead. caller: thank you so much. good evening, peter. and professor homestead. i'm really honored, honestly, to be speaking right now about this book. so i'm a teacher and i'm teaching u.s. government right now but honestly i think these kind of books are incredibly life changing for students and i just wanted to praise willa cather and all the books i've read by her. "my antonia," depth comes to the arch bishop," song of the lark." sulphurand the slave girl." that woman showed in that video. i think her writi just so

teachable on such dark subject. they don't get as foul as mark twain or as dark as steinbeck sometimes does. as brutal as "uncle toms cabin and beloved. i absolutely think her books should be taught more. host: jesse, thank you for coming in. in fact, "depth comes to the arch british hop is from his area in the country, isn't it." guest: it is, it is. "my antonia" is actually a pretty dark book. lots of dark things happen. it's kind of episodic, not plotted like a traditional novel and every once in a while these dark and gruesome things happen. tough story of the couple that they throw the bride and groom to the wolves. antonia is at her home ask they're eating popcorn and tachi and suddenly she tells the story

of a tramp who throws himself into a thrashing machine. it's really prty dark. antonia is going to be sexual assaulted by her employer but jim goes to stay there instead so she ends up being saved by that experience but then she ends up being lured into a man into not marriage and finds herself in -- without support back on the family farm. host: from claim payne, illinois, please -- claim payne, illinois. please go ahead. are you with us? we're going to move on and talk to mark out in bridgewater, massachusetts. mark, you're on c-span. please get. caller: peter, good evening to you and good evening to your distinguished guest. professor homestead, i listen to some of the comments you were making about how you could find so many strands to talk about from in work by willa captainer

and i wondered if -- cather and i wondered if it was possible that -- listening., go ahead, we're caller: peter, i'm -- was trying --ist trying to think about -- peter, can i call you back? host: no, you cannot. can you turn down the volume on your tv, please? go ahead and just finish your question and then we'll have professor homestead answer it. caller: ok, i just was curious that if willa cather had taken more of a satirical approach to her novel and rather spoke and -- narrative, she had been a little bit more conscious or made the readers conscious of the amount of lessa fair

practices that were taking place on the plains that it would have been possible for her to reach out to an audience and prevent the possibility of climate-induced change during the 1930's. host: thank you, mark. we have a lot to work with there. professor homestead, what would you like to say to mark? guest: when she was writing the book boo, i don't think anyone anticipated the dust bowl. certainly in the 19th search, there was a professor of horticulture at the university of who pop grated that rain followed the plow, which isn't exactly what happened. it was always dicey in terms of water fly, semiarid climate but also i think he's celebrating the development of

agricultureture in department and i don't think she knew charles going to happen. i don't think she was anticipating the climate disaster of the 19 30's. there's a lot of reason people should have but no evidence she did. host: why do you think another book won the pulitzer prize instead of "my antonia"? guest: "my antonia" was, i believe, the first year of the pulitzer prize and they were still working out their procedures and trying to figure out what they were doing. the willa captain irspring conference was about the pulitzer prize and prizes in general in regular to cather. i looked at research and it's not clear but it's clear that her publisher mifflin put "my antonia" forward. and it may have been the genius

of arthur knopf why another book of hers won instead of "my antonia" several years earlier. host: she also worked in pennsylvania, correct? guest: yes, she worked in pittsburgh, pennsylvania, for a decade. she went there to edit a short lived regional women's magazine then she worked for a newspaper which shae had done in nebraska as well. then she worked at a high school. which she thought was going to give her plenty of time and summers off. then she went to work for a magazine, which did also not give her time. so it took her time to find her feet. she started -- about her age early in her career because she thought she hadn't gotten to the

level of achievement in the later in her career. host: there was a historical marker mentioning that willa cather had worked there for a while. her work in new york was her most well known work, correct? guest: the work that she wrote there? yes. most of the work that she wrote while living in new york city was her best known work. "oh, pioneer," the song of a lark" "my antonia" all written pretty much when she was living at 5 banks street. unfortunately there are no pictures i've found that showed the original place. there are pictures of 0 washington square, which is the first place she lived but that building is gone. host: greenwich village is also

described as bo homeians -- bo medium -- bohemian. was it that way when cather was living there? guest: yes, the first years, it was a quiet bo homea. it really became the sort of bohemian world of experimental arts and lives. during the years of her growing fame as a novelist in the teens, it was definitely the place where people went who were living on the edge and living experimental lives. she wasn't right in the middle on washington square anymore. host: and she did end up on park avenue. guest: she did. yes. host: you are also the author of a book called "the only wonderful things: the creative partnership of willa kateer and ed it lewis. who was ed it lewis? guest: she was in lincoln,

nebraska. she and catcher met there when krafter was coming back from -- cather was coming back from a trip to the west. lewihad graduated from smith college, which is where i also went to college. she was heading to new rk to get a job in publishing and then she and cather -- cather would come to visit. and she was -- she would come to new york in 1906. she edited every week magazine from 1915 so 1918 and then she was an advertiser exciter for many years and worked from until her retirement in the 1940's. host: were they partners? guest: yes, they lived together for 40 years. they dn't label their relationship but they also didn't hide it. there's pretty much an open vacation for tea a 35 bank

street on friday afternoons. i found a notice in the paper saying miss cather and miss lewis are opening up their tea vacation again. host: and what do you talk about when you talk about "the only wonderful things." guest: that's from the one surviving full letter from edith lewis in 1906. that's a beautiful letter about venus in the night sky. it's about just really what it is to be -- we aren't the only wonderful things because we can wonder looking at this beauty in the night sky and talking about the fact that they had spent a lot of time from. and when i say creative partnership, i'm talking about two women who lived together as partners for nearly 340 years but also edith lucid ited willa

cather. the first surviving type script is from the professor's house in 1925. but there was also a poem that ed it lewis--' kit lewis edited. she read proofs with kateer in 1918 in jaffrey for "my antonia." that much is clear. host: why only one surviving letter? guest: there are actually three postcards but there's a difference between we don't know where they are and they must have been destroyed and even if they were destroyed we don't necessarily know who destroyed them. that's an interesting question. it's possible that those letters are still out there. i know that there are many people who probably heard that willa cather burned all her corresponds, demanded that people burn it but there are

more than 3,000 ex at&t letters at this point. if she had wanted to do it, her family, she could have asked for them to send corresponds back but it's not clear that was the gentle at all. host: we have a related podcast about willa cather and richard norton smith who is a big fan of cather did the podcast and to say.a little of what he had >> i think what she overcame and the fact that she, from the earliest years is a kind of stand-in for nonconformists, however you twine the term, gives her an -- almost a you know versallity of appeal that i'm not sure during her lifetime anyone would have necessarily dying noticed. -- diagnosed.

host: any comment to that? guest: in some ways she was a nonconformist. certainly in her younger years when she wore her hair short and called. he's william. although the idea that she dressed in men's closeting isn't supported by evidence but still, she was coloring "outside the lines" and other things she did that were coloring "outside the lines." in a lot of ways she was not as conservative as some people make her out to be either. but she wasn't a greenwich village radical. she was among them but not entirely one of them. host: a caller from new york. bob, you're on with melissa homestead. the topic, willa cather. caller: thank you so much for taking the call. really wonderful show, both of you. i was going to ask you how she felt about having published the

letters but you answered that. my other question was -- i'm right now reading the poetry "april title and other poems" and what do you think of the poetry? she wrote very little poetry. do younow anything about it like why or when orow host: bob, we'll g a answer in two secondsut what do you think of the poetry? caller: it seemed very simple. not as intense or colorful as the short stories in particular. so i must say i'm only halfway threw it now and it will probably take a reread to get back into it. maybe i was expecting something different. host: thank you, sir. professor? guest: first, i would say that she didn't want her letters published but that's not the way excite works. they went into the public domain and as a scholar i feel comfortable in contrasting an

author's wishes. as for her poetry, it probably seems different to you because most of it was written before the fiction that you know. it's pretty conventional r itself time. she never really gets modern. i think she's more modern in her form and technique in fiction than she is her poetry but she pretty much stopped writing her poetry at the time she started writing the fiction that you know. host: did her literary style in "my antonia" impact literature at that time and even today? guest: i'm not sure about literary style. i think that probably seeing an- even more there's been recent work by a scholar about contemporaries. not now. late 20th century and early 21st century writers of immigrant backgrounds inspired by cather. if you think of the film minari,

which is about an asian american family in arkansas who have a farm and they keep getting crushed by debt, in fact. the director of that film, the writer and director of that film credited "my antonia" with inspiring him. so i would say that for me, what's really interesting, like i said is contemporary authors of immigrant backgroundings finding inspiration in kathy ir-- cather's pictures of immigration more than 100 years ago. host: mary is calling from nebraska. go ahead, mary. caller: hello? this is mary from nebraska and i wanted to just tell you all that i'm a retired teacher and my classmates and i read "my antonia" in our high school class and since we have retired now, we have gone to visit in red cloud and read all of the books h book studies and

stayed in the -- i believe it's the sond house. gu yes,he cather second home. caller: and enjoyed all the amenities in the red cloud area as a group and we stayed and had a wonderful time and we learned a whole lot more about willa cather and we were just so excited to be able to do that and to spend several days in red cloud to honor this amazing author. host: thank you, mary, for calling in and sharing that. professor? guest: i would say that i know we're going to hear more about the national willa cather center clo but for high school teachers out there, the center returns a summer teachers institute that anyone from across the country can apply to and they provide housing and a travel stipend for teachers to come and learn about information

that could be shared with others. for teachers, that's a wonderful opportunity. host: returning right now to red cloud, nebraska, and a rook at some of the places related to "my antonia" and willa cather. here it is. >> my name is rachel olson and i'm the director of education and engagement at the national willa cather center and we're standing in front of the burlington depo in red cloud, nebraska, where the railroad arrived in 1879. later in 1888, it became a stop on the red line between kansas and denver. this is also an important stop for homesteaders traveling to nebraska. a busy depot that saw up to eight passenger trains taillie. this is where anna pavelka and willa cather arrived in 1 3 to start their lives on the divide. we're standing in front of the j.r. minor ooh miner house, 187

elle and located just a block away from the willa cather home. as a child willa would have spent a lot of time in this house. she admired julia, the family matriarch and also got to know anna pavelka, who was a attorney. she was part of an immigrant family trying to homestead and this friendship later inspired cather's most famous novel, "my antonia." if you walk inside the miner home you'll see a parlor followed bay formal dining room and you'll walk from there into the kitchen where there is a small kitchen -- bedroom that anna stayed in when she was employed by the miner family. you'll also see a hallway that served as a parlor for julia to

entertain guests where she also played piano. and you'll see a space that served as mr. minor's often. red cloud developed in the 20 years that would have included cather's childhood here so from the 1880's to the turn of the century. cather. he's would have witnessed a town in the making so the businesses and services that we take for granted as always being available in our hometown or in our community were still in development as cather grew up and that evolution of the town made a strong impression on cather that later came out in her writing. we are standing in front of the pavelka farmstead and we're about 16 miles north of red cloud in webster county, nebraska. this is where anna and john raised their 10 children and where they farmed and this is

also the site where willa kateer and anna were reunited in 1916 during a visit cather paid tonnish. this visit proved to be very important. it served as sort of the inspiration for cather to write "my antonia" which was published two years later and many of the beautiful final scenes that you read in "my antonia" are set at this farmstead. this farmstead is far different from the dugouts that many homesteaders lived in in the early 1880's. just like anna pavelka did with her family but it's a great representation of the larger homesteading culture and immigrant farm life that kateer endeavored to capture in her novel. host: professor, how much visitors come there a year. do they get a pretty good crowd in red cloud? guest: yes, i don't have the numbers but yes, it does.

i think it's still growing after the pandemic. host: red cloud i believe is down to 500 people. a thousand in population. guest: yes, it's a small town. so it's an important driver of economic development and bringing other sources to town as well. host: our topic this evening on books that shaped america is "my antonia" my willa cather. if you want to call in. 748-8920. in the east and central time zones. 202-748468921 and if you scant get through, try the text number. 202-47 -- 748-8003 make sure to include your first name and your city. you are the director of the cather project, which is --

guest: it promote teaching and research on willa cather. we publish the semiannual journal devoted to work on cather. host: and do you teach any of cather's books in yore english class? guest: there's a story "coming afro diety" i'll be teaching. it's set in nebraska. i'll be teaching a graduate seminar on willa cather next fall so yes. host: text message -- did ernest hemmingway steal some of his style from willa cather? guest: i don't think so. he does make a statement about the iceberg theory that 1/10th of everything is -- and most of the meaning has been cut away

and that's the rest of the iceberg that's still there, even if you can't read the words. that does resonate with daytimer'sest nettic theory in a novel which talks about the thing not named and the divine that's heard like an overtone, not the thing on the page. he's is more conventional in a lot of ways but it's certainly compact and concise and trips away the unnecessary. host: tracy frommivity coo, new york. tracy, please get. caller: oh, my goodness. thank you so much. i fliped to this by accident this evening just a few moments ago and i was fascinated by what i'm hearing and seeing, the history, the beauty of where they lived. and one of my thoughts was did they ever actually live in new york for any reason and now

while i was on hold i heard that there's a greenwich village story but either way, i thank you so much for the informative information of these beautiful women and what you are doing for history. host: thank you for calling in, tracy. guest: i will say it's very interesting that cather, she traveled back to nebraska regularly while both of her parents were alive. once both of her parents were dead, she didn't. but she didn't really write in anybody. she wrote in new york city when she was in new york city. she went to jaffrey, nebraska. she wrote about nebraska from all of those playses but she really did not write about nebraska in nebraska. if she had stayed there, i'm not sure she would have written the fiction that she did. host: and professor holmes

mentioned she was from nebraska. would you write about nebraska? guest: no, i'm not a fiction writer. for cavitier, i think, really she needed that distance in order to write about it. not to be immersed in it. even in "my antonia," the fact that jim burton, he travels back to the west. in fact, the introduction, he's on a train talking to the and-in figure for cather, who is the introduction they rater but he was a new york railroad lawyer so he, in fact, supposedly writes his narrative of "my antonia" in his apartment in new york and brings it to willa and presents it and says this is what i wrote. says you didn't write this thing, this is my thing. this is "my antonia." so i think that distance is

important. host: you have another selection to read for you. guest: yes, i do. this is from earlier in the novel. earlier i was reading about otto, the cowboy. this is the prairie scene. he has gone out into the garden with his grandmother. excuse me a little. i sat down in the middle of the garden and this is where he asked to be left in the garden where his ground mother and grandfather warmed him about snakes. i leaned my back against a warm yellow pumpkin. there are some cherries growing along the furios full of fruit. i pulled back -- and ate a few. all about me grasshoppers were doing acrobatic feats. the goffers scurried up and down the plowed ground. the wind did not blow very hard

but i could hear it singing its humming tune up on a level and i could see the tall grasses wave. the earth was warm under me and warm as i crumbled it through my finger. queer little red bugs came out and moved in squadrons around me. i kept as still as i could. nothing happened. i did not expect anything to happen. i was something that lay under the sun and felt like the pumpkins and i did not want to be anything more. i was entirely happy. perhaps we feel like that when we die and become a part of something entire. whether it is sunshine and air or good and knowledge. when it comes to one, it comes as naturally as sleep. host: y did you choose that? guest: because the words are engraved of willa cather's

tombstone are in it and because it's that sense of the land being a character that we talked about earlier. host: throughout this series, we have visited with teachers who teach the different books that we are talking about and we're going to introduce you now to ryan griffith. he's an cather education english teach every and he teacheses willa cather and "my antonia." >> of course there are always challenges in teaching older knots to young adults. it's not the language so much as it is the cultural references and illusions that are made to the time period in which the story takes place. in a lot of ways it's almost like reading a fantasy novel. for students today, the controversy surrounding, for example, mr. shimmerton's place of burial. the layout of the farm house and

even the opera that jim and lena lynnguard go to see. all of these might seem as foreign to students as a mythical kingdom but once they can connect with the characters and the universal experiences and emotions that those characters have, it's easy to become immersed in the world of the past in just the same way that we can become immersed in a fantasy novel. students respond to characters who thought and felt the same way that they have and looking back on it. as adults, and as they mature and grow older, they might return to "my antonia." they might remember that there was a character in that book who experienced something that they're experiencing now as an adult. because as a young adult you can only be nostalgic about so much but as we grow older and more

regrets pile up in the removal of our lives, the -- rearview mirror of our lives, the themes become even more relevant as we age and as time goes on. it's a wonderful novel. i think everyone should read it in classrooms already on their own. willa cather deserves to be more well known as an author than i think she is and it's a great story. host: and ryan griffith also teaches english and humanities as tailorville high school in illinois. how do you teach the book? guest: i just wanted to say the idea about nostalgia -- i've always been very frustrated with jim burden as a narrator but once i hit my 40's, i was a little more sympathetic with his narrative but i was less

sympathetic with him for antagonizing her for almost getting remained. when you teach it in nebraska especially, especially rural students due understand a lot of the novel. that line that was read earlier on that it was all day long in nebraska. it totally cracks them up and a lot of students have czech in their current backgrounds so they recognize a lot of those things so in nebraska it release pretty ripe. i'd say the real challenge is the blend darn over episode which is this racist fantasy about a pianist from virginia. i think it's probably less of a challenge than teaching all of huck finn. i know you talked about that last week but still ating for why is it there? host: that's what i was going to ask you. guest: i think we admire

cather's embrace brace of eastern european immigrants but it's like appease mans pace virginia black story, which there's no reason to tell that story about blind darn over that happened in the book except in some ways that fantasy about black subservience and black primitivism makes way for the bo bohemian immigrants to be part of american. that's like the exclusion of african-americans from citizenship. it was troubling. i think the immigrant characters get in this part by that exclusion of blackness. certainly there were some black homesteaders in nebraska but they were pushed off. host: george is in palmetto, florida. george, good evening. caller: hi, thanks for taking my

call. i just wanted to share with you an experience they had a few years ago in red cloud. i've visited often. wife is a red cloud native and we were in red cloud doing a concert actually at the red cloud opera house and when i took a break, i went downstairs, i have to confess, to smoke a yet? out on the street and there emerged from the shop downstairs two japanese -- a young japanese couple who had traveled -- they were both high school -- teachers of american lit in -- i don't think it was in tokyo. i don't remember which city it was in and they came all the way out to red cloud because they were fascinated by willa cher and wanted to see t sights and

i thought that was rather sweet. they looked like typical -- for me, typical japanese tourists. she had her little rain hat on and they had their cameras around their necks and they were fascinated and just couldn't get enough of the scene there. host: george, thank you for sharing that story. guest: yeah, there are certainlm many places. not just all over the united states. she hasn't been out to red cloud yet but i have a visiting chinese scholar funded by a chinese agency who is a great enthusiast for willa cather and is very excited to get out to nebraska and red cloud. host: when it comes to pop culture and knowing willa cather and "my antonia," there was a song and we're going to play a short portion of it. ♪ >> you a my shelter in a storm

you are the one i will always remember l of the days of myife a mission that took me far from her a treasure so fine and so fair her smile or a touch of her fingers fire in her heart and the smell of her hair. host: that was emmy lou harris and dave matthews. are you familiar with that song? guest: no. i hadn't heard it before. host: it's called "my antonia:" red dirt girl.

a text. was willa cather able to support. he's through her writing and have any of her books been made into movies? in so, did you like the movie? guest: so, yes, by the time she gets to "my antonia" i would say she is supporting. he's through her writing. when she stopped working in magazine editing she had saved up some money and she had to also sell short stories. a lot of her short stories were set in new york city, not in nebraska but she made money from selling them. by the 1930's she was quite well established and was making pretty substantial amounts of money and as far as movies, there was a silent film an adaptation "the lost lady," which cather apparently found ok. there are no prints of it so we don't have a basis to judge. from was a talky version in the 1930's which has almost nothing to do with cather's novel.

there's an airplane. the characters' names are the same but it has nothing to with her book. more recently there was a usa network sort of miniseries, i think, of "my antonia," which i think is pretty dreadful. neil patrick harris about when he was doggy houser maryland and he looks pretty ridiculous whether they turn him into a young man. a hallmark hall of fame "o pioneers" with jessica lang, which is quite good. host: our next call from david in oklahoma city. hi, david, please go ahead. you're on with melissa homestead. caller: yes, melissa. been listening to your talk and you're very wise, both of y'all. i'm a writer myself.

i have a book out there called portrait express. you'll see a picture of it on the billboard in times square between now and christmas. hopefully by my birthday, which is next month but i think you're doing a great job here and i think you're great about books and you have a lot of great books. anyway, thank you very much. host: david, thank you for calling in. we appreciate it. let's hear from john in lincoln, nebraska. your home now. john, please go ahead. caller: my name is john hemphill. my great grand mower was antonia. my great grandfather was -- so i really enjoy your show and i wanted to tell you about an interesting introduction i had a couple of years ago. my wife invited one of her friends over and her husband came and it was david burden. the great, great grandson of jim burden and we had a nice talk.

thank you for your show and it's very entertaining. guest: jim burden was a fictional character so it may have been that the name came from someone whose name -- i think there is a tombstone with the name burdennen i the red cloud cemetery with you he's a fictional character and antoinette turner who used to introduce. he's as antonia's granddaughter. she passed recently but she was a granddaughter of ana pavel car, not of antonia. the real person who. he's -- i mean, very much knew that the novel was based in significant ways on her life but it also diverged from her life. host: willa cather died in 1947 but it was in 1935 at an awards ceremony in new york city she discussed the importance of novels. here's willa kateer in her own

voice. >> it's certainly a very new arrival among the arts. and we hope that the most -- developments as a novel are still to come. looking back over its short pasd variety you discern -- discern

inaudible [indiscernible]

[indiscernible] host: that was willa cather in 1935 talking about the importance of novels. well, the books that shaped america series came from a list from the library of congress. 100 books that shaped america. this list came out in 201. we chose 10 -- 2013. we chose 10 from that list. there were other books from the era that "my antonia" was published in 1918. here's a look at some of the others. >>ane grey's western novel

"writers of the purple sage, reased in 191. edgar burrow's story of the man raised by apes was released in 1914. titled tarzan of the aims. margaret singer published family eliminations in 1914, which explained how to prevent pregnant nancecy. spinning and all in 1923. robert frost received his first pulitzer prize for his 1923 book of poetry "new hampshire." here are more books from the library of congress's list of 100 books that shaped america. and scotts fitzgerald's vel "the great gatsby was published in 1925. langston hughes' collection, the ishii blues. in 1919 william fall in's the sound and the fury was published. rounding out the decade, dashiell happen et's thriller

red harstas released in 1929. host: and iyogo to the website. c-span.org/books that shamed americ you'll see the library of congress's list of all 100 are on the website and you can make your own pot view about whether or not thosere good books. inac you can send us an email from viewer input at the top of the page and tell us what you think is a book that shaped america. other willa cather books. o pioneers. the song of the lark. death comes for the arch bishop. one of ours, which won the 1922 pulitzer. willa cather was the author of 12 novels and nearly 60 short stories. as we discussed, melissa homestead ask very -- is very active with the willa cather papers and at the university of nebraska lincoln, her colleague, a lobbies professor there, talks

about them. >> we have very excitedly here, her own personal copy of the "my antonia" book. one thing that cather did with her personal copies or her own books was insert things into them meaning thankful to her. in this copy, she put in a letter she received from anna pavelka. her old friend who was the inspiration for the character antonia. and this was a wedding invitation to anna's daughter that was happening the same fall that "my antonia" was published. here is another copy of a book. this is one that cather gave to her partner edith lewis shortly after the nashville came out. edith put in photographers of cather at about the time she wrote the novel so there were two photographs in here. one of cather in jaffrey, new

hampshire. with a pen and man you script enhanced. maybe it is "my antonia" but also a picture of cather in front of a a tent. that seems outside except we know that cather wrote major portions of "my antonia" in a tent and a medicineo havers named high mowing near jaffrey, new hampshire and so this represents part of the moment where the novel was taking shape in catheterize imagination. we have many letters, particularly between cather and her family and cather loved to share the good news and sometimes bad news about her writing life and professional life as well as much more with her family members. this was a letter to her dear brother roscoe. sharing reviews that she got from "my antonia." "my antonia" was distinctive in cather's life. it propelled her into a new level of response.

readership. the critics loved what she had to say and she wanted to share this success with her family. this one she's quoting reviews to her brother and the other one is to her sister elzy. she takes time to both share with elzy some of her ambitions for the novel. what she wanted to accomplish. in her effort to be authentic and to tell the truth, the whole truth but also she wanted to share the an dick tote about when she saw some women in a bookstore buying all the copies of "my antonia" they had. she shares stories of her life with her family and sometimes this letter, this last letter, is a little different. it was a letter to a different who wrote kateer and shared her enthusiasm. this was years later in the mid 19 20's but a student at the

university of lincoln nebraska wrote kateer, shared how much she liked it and cather wrote her back and said she didn't have much time but celt -- felt she deserved a good response because it was such a kind letter. host: now, melissa homestead, we were talking during this and commenting on some of the things. was she close to her family and was she a good letter writer? prolific letter writer? guest: yes, of the things about letters, of course, when you say are they close? you don't write letters when someone is in the room with up. so her brother roscoe was in next. he was in wyoming then in california. in fact, all of her brothers ended up in california and her parents were still in nebraska so there are letters to them because she didn't live there but she did keep in very regular

touch with most members of her family. although we have a lot of letters to roscoe but her brother jim, it's a great mystery where all those letters went. there could be many more letters out there. host: to give you a sense of cather's legacy. 182-1947 were her years here on earth. this is statue at the u.s. capitol. there's a city or town called willa cather prairie in next. scrolls in -- schools in omaha and chicago are named after her and there is a schorship since 1987 awarding to dozens of students about $200,000. who sponsors that scholarship? guest: i'm not sure when scholarship you're talking about. host: that's fine. we mentioned that if you are interested in submitting a books that shamed america idea, you cano the website. c-span.org/books that shaped

america. upt the top, you see viewer input up there. go aad and click on that. and you can send us a video. here are some of the submissions that we've gotten. >> i'm from france and i do believe that the book from -- in this series because they follow people like ronald reagan and -- [indiscernible] and they were able to -- to third world countryings. >> my name is erika. i'm from washington, d.c. and one book i think that shaped america is called the distance between us because it shows and describes the journey of immigrants who have shaped the country. >> my name is alex and i'm from

fairfax, virginia, and one of the books that shaped america is the series by tamara pierce. it opened up an entirely new category of media for young adults, allowing teenage girls to have a bridge between the children's section and grownup fantasy that to be them seriously as individuals. pope -- opened up a new category of mold i've for teenagers around the world. >> the book that i think shaped america is "a tree grows in brooklyn." the reason is, it's a book that told the story of a typical immigrant family and their experiences during that time period in the united states but it's also a story that anyone can relate to because it's the story of a little girl and i read it when i was a little girl so it meant a lot to me even know my experience was nothing like hers. >> hi, my name is craig howell. i'm from nebraska and the books that i think shaped america is "to kill a mockingbird."

i think that atticus and gem and scout and everybody showed so much on how we are supposed to treat people with respect and dignity. i think it really had an impact on this country. >> i'm from boston, massachusetts. the book i'm choosing right now is 184 by george orwell. the reason is because if you look at the future and you'll find there's foot just big brother involved. there are a lot of other things that can happen. i want to say it's shaping how we think if we were to put ourselves in this position. >> i'm from long island, new york and the book is lost horizons by james hitten. shank a la or paradise where

people live together. if we could all live in peace together, i think that would be great and i highly recommend the book. >> lee chose the 48 law of the power because it teaches you really good lessons and helps you change your mindset to something that will help you grow in life. >> see ya. host: e books that shaped america website from, you can see it if you want to submit your own video of a book that shamed america. melissa homestead of the university of nebraska, what has been the impact in your view of "my antonia" and willa cather? guest: she's given a great deal of pleasure to a lot of readers and wrote about so many places, not just nebraska, and opened up different eras of american and canadian history. one of her novels to readers and just the great variety of her expression. she's really not just one thing.

host: we appreciate your time this evening. we appreciate you joining us for books that shaped america. we'll see you next week. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy visit ncicap.org] ♪ ♪