the 118th congress. the senate convenes both chambers face funding deadlines to avoid a government shutdown, the first on january 19, and together on february 2. >> the subcommittee on appropriations are ready to do the work, but we are waiting on the other temper to come forward with a number we can agree upon. >> senator mcconnell and i will figure out the way to get this done quickly. announcer: follow progress when congress returns on the c-span works, c-span now, or anytime online at c-span.org. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. it is authors week series and joining us we have been featuring top writers of various political spectrum. joining us is reverend wheeler

parker, jr., the cousin of emmett till, and also christopher benson discussing their book "a few days full of trouble." thank you for joining us today. guest: thanks for having us. host: a little stories and history behind the death of emmett till. what was your purpose in writing it? guest: to bring clarity and rest some of the miss numbers about the stories of emmett till. we thought we would bring some clarity. host: can you elaborate the events you felt needed clarifying? >> -- guest: as to what happened at the store, i was and eyewitness. the stories put out there were not told by eyewitness. host: as you helped cowrite the

book, in the effort to bring clarity on the source we have heard, what role did you take? what was the largest part of the task facing you? guest: we wanted to get the truth out there. i discovered there were so many things that had been misreported. in journalist and a lawyer so i had a critical assessment of some of my sisters and brothers who were reporting i chose's -- who were reporting on each other's stories and not going back and doing research. that is what he wanted to do. certainly delve into reverend parker's memory, as a person who was at the night -- who was at the house the night they can be taken until away. worked with the fbi in the last

four years into the investigation of the lynching and we were able to help inform the investigation and take information from the investigation in ways that enrich our story as presented in the book. it is material that has never been told before. host: a little bit from the book for our ae, this is from "a few days full of trouble," after all these years, the truth had not been told, not completely. this book is an aem to accomplish that and hie some measure of justice, if only because we clear the record of some errors and lies. been approved of stories about the emmett till i knew so well. what is the common marriage if you hear when it comes to emmett till at the store? what is the truth in reality as you see it?

guest: when the story first happened, we felt helpless because we did not have control of the media or exposure to the media. when i was interviewed 30 years later, you can only understand what it was like to have lived that time. all of a sudden i have my chance to tell my story and get the truth out. i think of the people who were there to hear my story. things have changed. we have come a long ways. we have a lot of work to do. host: the story centers at the events at the store. tell us your account of what happened and how that differs to what you hear about the account. guest: everything i have heard is from people who were not there. the truth is i was at the story.

emmett and i were traveling together and i was there in the store. i am purchasing some things and while i am in store and it -- store, met -- emmett comes in, nothing happened. within a minute or so, my uncle came in with them. nothing happened. they never asked us, they never did an interview. we felt so helpless to try to correct those things. now we have a chance to correct them. people are listening. host: talk a little bit about what you said about it what you believe the truth is.

guest: we have been exposed to stories that rose out of that experience. one of the leading stories was the story that caroline bryant told. she was the woman who claimed to have been insulted and accosted by emmett till and we know that wasn't true. we meticulously, through the fbi investigation and our own research, were able to trace all of the events that flowed from that night to the most recent experience with caroline bryant as she was attempting to tell her story in a book. we were able to document that she lied. we were able to document some of the things that have never been document to before with respect to her involvement in the kidnapping of emmett till. the important thing is that after four years of closing out this investigation, the fbi was able to validate the eyewitness testimony of reverend parker. it's in the report that was

issued december 21 through the department of justice, that emmett till did not do all the things he was accused of doing, he was only in there for a brief time as reverend parker has stated. and that everything else was a lie. that's the important thing about this book. the interesting thing for us is that there was some its willingness to accept the stories that were told at the time. this young african-american kid was barely 14 years old and the only turn 14 years old a few weeks before he traveled to mississippi come a child who was brutally tortured and lynched over the course of several hours for just being a black kid basically, infringing on the culture of the south and not showing the proper respect perhaps while he was there. the important thing here is that the traumatic memory that comes forward in this book is on a parallel track with the

investigation and the tiktok of the right along with the investigation and the fbi over the course of four years, we were able to reveal things that have never been seen before and we think that's makes ordinary contribution to the conversation, the national conversation we are having on race. host: when it comes the evidence you found when it comes to caroline bryant's story, what was the main piece of evidence you showed she was lying? guest: we saw the statement she made to the defense lawyers, the lawyers representing her husband area and her brother-in-law, the accused killers who confessed. this was a few days after the arrest of these two assailants, these two murderers. story she told them was different from the story she told a few weeks later in court and the story she later told as she was preparing her manuscript. you can see how the story developed. the other part we so was looking

through doing a deep dive through the records, we saw at one point there was investigation that was launched in 2004. in that investigation, she told the fbi agent she couldn't remember anything. for only a month or so after that, she worked on her book where she seemed to remember quite a back -- quite a bit at least the story she wanted the public to know. we talk about the so-called karens, the person who accuses black people of doing something bad and wrongly accusing them. this is the original karen. we believe from now on, we should probably refer to people who falsely accuse black people of some wrongdoing as caroline because this is the original story that started it all. host: if you want to ask our guest questions about their book in the event surrounding it, (202) 748-8000 for the eastern

time zone, (202) 748-8001 mountain and pacific time zone or text us at (202) 748-8003. you have a paperback version of this book coming out. what will be added to it as the result from the initial printing? guest: i think it will be the same. chris can address that as well. guest: we do edit the afterword because carolyn bryant died after the hardcover was released. we updated it to also reflect on accusations, attempts to arrest her, indict her between the time of the publication of the hardcover and the publication of the paperback. we do update it in that regard and put it in context of people can understand and also develop a critical assessment of the story they hear, the stories they read, the stories they are

exposed to on social media so we begin to ask critical questions about the information we are getting. that's important take away we believe from the story. also the resolution that reverend parker was able to experience just in getting at the truth finally after nearly 70 years of living with this story. host: our guest is the reverend wheeler parker junior and christopher benson. our first call for you gentlemen is from ron in pennsylvania, you're on with our guest, go ahead. caller: good morning. something that always bothered me was after the two murderers were acquitted by a white jury, then they gave their story to a magazine and they admitted in the story that they killed emmett till and tortured him.

it made me sick to my stomach when i read that. i don't know if it was post-or life magazine. i can't understand why the government couldn't rearrest these guys and please don't tell me about double jeopardy. if they killed somebody, they should have been rearrested and brought to trial again by a federal jury because he was kidnapped and the whole thing upset me to this day. it really bothers me. i wanted to ask the question of the two guests -- what why weren't those guys rearrested after that magazine story was published? host: let's start with reverend parker. guest: i will let chris deal with this. he is a lawyer and can better explain it than i can. my main thing would be the double jeopardy. what happened at this point if

the story had died, but this was all over so they had to make those guys look good. they fabricated it and painted him as a monster, a 13-year-old kids. i suffered with all my life. it bothered me when i read that look magazine story whenever it was. i had to live with that. they portrayed him in such a terrible way. america has changed some. we have made some progress. we've come a long way but we have a lot of work to do. we appreciate the change. host: talk about the look story and why it may have impacted this? guest: a couple of things to consider -- we going to great detail with respect to that story. it's a story that troubled reverend parker for many years. it finally was sorted out as we

did our research on the book. double jeopardy was a factor with respect to the state claim, with respect to federal claim, we meticulously go through the records, fbi documents and memoranda from j edgar hoover to show that he was more concerned about investigating emmett till's mother for communism that did not exist but because there were labor leaders and civil rights leaders who were supporting her, he determined that they were communist influencers and he was more concerned about investigating them. this was when co-intel pro started, the counterintelligence program of the fbi. he was concerned about that and was not concerned about investigating the murder for some federal indictment. the eisenhower administration

also was reluctant to step in because they saw there were votes they could get in the south and they didn't want to accept -- upset the racial balance in that regard. there was a lot of complex issues that were going on at the time. we talk about that in the book. the other part of this is that the writer of that look magazine article, william bradford huie, actually proposed to do a piece for the naacp. he was going to do a book and he approached roy wilkins, head of the naacp come offering to tell the story that would reveal white racism in the south. the naacp never responded. he flipped it and proposed a story to the lawyers who represented the murderers, two of the murderers because there were probably seven people we document who were involved. but proposed to them he read a story exposing with the civil

rights movement was trying to do too white people in the south. they bought it. he paid for that story, $4000 that was distributed among lawyers and the two accused -- confess killers because they did confess. that today is probably about $36,000. that was part of it. we write about this in the book, a lot of the story that appeared in look magazine was pretty much dictated by the lawyers who were sitting in and they framed this lynching as a pushback against civil rights advancement. it is articulated in the story, things these killers never would have fully understood but the lawyers did because they were part of the power structure of mississippi the time. we talk about all of that. these are the factors that existed, the political dynamic, the racial hierarchy at the time, the power of mississippi and the federal government that came down this case. it was huge. as reverend parker said, it was

international news at the time. host: bill in arizona is next. caller: yes, i'm curious -- this occurred in the 1950's. can you give a date of when the evidence started to turn this around? host: reverend parker? guest: what evidence in particular? host: the caller is no longer with us but he's asking about when the evidence started to turn the story that was commonly known at the time, when the evidence started turning that around. guest: i think the fbi was not taking an interest in truth -- and it so they investigated and when they did they report it gave more light to it.

they investigated and worked on any given more light were as time passed, the government was not involved at all. guest: i can add to that because it was largely through the efforts of the late alvin sykes, an activist from kansas city who was relentless and doing his own investigation and presenting that to the authorities in mississippi, the u.s. attorney, the states attorney, the district attorney at the time who pushed for investigation in 2004 and came up with a remarkable theory. this was a person who is a high school dropout who taught himself the law in the library of kansas city. he pursued this case up to the department of justice and went up getting the authorization and found a theory by which the federal government could come in and investigate on behalf of the state of mississippi even though the federal cause of action had expired. there was civil rights action

that could have been pursued by j edgar hoover but had a five year statute of limitations. that expired but he had a theory that allow the fbi to step in and investigate on behalf of the state to determine whether there was anything that could have been brought by the state against anybody who had not already been tried but who could be held accountable for the murder. the murder has no statute of limitations. the other piece that ties these questions together is kidnapping. at the time of emmett's lynching, kidnapping also was a capital offense. that was in mississippi and the two killers were brought to a grand jury separate from the murder trial on kidnapping and the grand jury voted not to issue an indictment. the whole system was corrupted in their favor. by the time the investigation was launched in 2004 and reopened in 2017 and we became

more actively involved, a lot of the evidence had become obscured , the people in 1955 had covered up so much of it that it was difficult to bring any new charges. host: what was the justification at the time for not bringing those charges? guest: early on? host: yes. guest: murder was charged. there was an indictment for murder for the two just for bryant and for milum. there were several counties involved in one of the county sheriff's decided not to serve a warrant on carolyn bryant. we write about this as well, they moved her around to a couple of counties to keep her from being served. he eventually said that he decided not to serve her because she was a young mother with two kids. she never was brought to account back in 1955. everything got swept under the

rug and people thought this thing would be dead forever until it was reopened in 2004. host: reverend parker, as far as your cousin, he went from chicago down to the south. how did you prepare him for how to comport himself while he was in the south? guest: you can't really prepare someone for going to the south if you don't know the morays and i knew the morays and he had no idea. you can't take a crash course on the south. normally what would happen if you got south, you would be in the hands of an adult. he was with me and my uncle. if you got out of line, they would straighten it out right away. he didn't have that. people would not come to your

plantation unless they came to the land owner and our land owner did not have any kind of power. host: let's hear from bob. one more question, you call him bobo, why is that? guest: that was his nickname. host: as far as the people that see pictures and we've been showing pictures, what was he like? talk about his attitude and demeanor, what was he like? guest: he never had a dull day in his life and he always smiled. he likes to make people laugh. host: bob is next. guest: i can add to that. we talked extensively about this and it's amazing for me to get to know emmett till through reverend parker and through his mother before she passed. he had a great sense of humor. he had a terrible stutter. he suffered polio when he was

six years old. while he regained the use of his muscles throughout his body come his vocal cords were damaged. he had a terrible stutter that people don't realize when they talk about him. they have to hear reverend parker tell the story. there was no way he could have said all of things carolyn bryant said he said. but as a prankster, he did talk to her when she came out of the store. she came out of the store after he left so there was no alarm. he whistled to entertain his friends and that's what set everything in motion. guest: she can remember him stuttering. he stuttered all the time. she said she doesn't remember that. host: bob in illinois, go ahead. caller: hello, sir. it's very interesting to hear emmett till's cousin and his best friend.

there's too many decent white people to put them in white -- in office again with institutional racism. what amazes me is it was 1955- 2004 where they swept it under the rug and it will make people buy this book. that's about it. that's really something, 55-2004, i didn't know that. i appreciate you allowing me to talk. host: reverend parker, anything to respond to as well as the timeframe? guest: he's not the first person to meet that kind of atrocity. something like this story showed

it was time to expose racism. once it got out there, the south in america had the responsibility to try to protect the system that they allowed to cause this. guest: i agree. it's really remarkable to see the parallels between what was going on in 1955 and what's going on right now as bob has suggested. we make that point in the book as well. in 1955, you had to think about the context. emmett till and reverend parker traveled to mississippi just a month or so after brown v. board of education was decided. this is the second round decision of the supreme court. the first had been handed down a year earlier, striking down separate but equal as unconstitutional.

in may of 1955, the second round -- brown decision was handed down. this is the implementation order. what that meant too many people in the south was exactly the opposite of what it means. deliberate means to think about, slow down and no rush and when people thought things would change overnight in the so-called way of life in the south, this caste system, this racial hierarchy, this apartheid that existed was going to be destroyed and little black kids were going to sit next to little white kids at the school the next day. it took years to make progress in that regard but they were alarmed. there were couple of murders in the south just a county away from where emmett and reverend parker traveled. that was one part of it. people were up in arms because they were afraid, they were angry and scared about what had just happened. today, people are up in arms in

anticipation of what is about to happen. change has caused so much fear in this country. in 1955, it was the fear of having to share space and power with people of color. now the same thing is happening as we anticipate a new demographic reality in this country. in our lifetime, this country will not look the same. there is no longer going to be a white majority and you can see what's happening out there. people have a lot of trouble adjusting to that reality and the pushback. we see a parallel between what was happening in 1955 and what's happening now in 2004 and 2005 as we approach another anniversary. what we have to think about in response to bob is what we need to do to preserve what we have come to enjoy and that is a truly democratic society, one in which everyone has a voice, one in which everyone has a boat and we all can participate in the

early plural, multi-racial and multicultural society. sharing power does not mean losing power and that's the story of emmett till. host: our guests are the co-authors of the book, few days of trouble. duke joins us from delaware, you are on with our guests. go ahead. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i wanted to say, no disrespect intended but i heard mr. benson identify folks in the civil rights hero is black but back then, they would have been more classified as negro league colored or indian. knowing this, reverend parker, i would like to know your insight on the american indian aspect of the emmett till family.

in july of this year, the proclamation for the national monument at the eisenhower executive offices, eisenhower also has questionable indian heritage but more ironically, biden signed the document in the indian treaty room. can you discuss you, emmett till and your aunt maybe's experience with the american indian heritage in your family? guest: i did my dna and i thought i had american indian dna in there but i checked it out and had none. most of us are european. my father was 34% european. we were in the same category as indians and hispanics. we all have the same underlying cause, to get the truth out and

do it's right. guest: most of us have a lot of other things going on. you can look at us and tell. i don't have any indigenous line because i've done dna as well. there is a connection in the story. you are right, the proclamation was made what historically was known as the engine -- is the indian treaty room and it has been renamed. the secretary of the interior is indigenous, she is pueblo. she has really embraced this story of emmett till and embraced the parkers in the process. she has had several meetings with the parkers which have been filled with so much love, you would have to see the pictures of her embracing the parkers and sharing her story of them didn't

generate a -- of indigenous and this process of naming the monument for the emmett till and any till national memorial which is basically national park now was pushed forward much more quickly because of her engagement. there was a couple of cases were when the parkers traveled to washington, d.c. in had a meeting at the department of the interior, the secretary found it they were in the building, she stopped her meeting and ran down to embrace them and talk to them and greet them and share another aspect of her story. we went to the signing of this proclamation. there was an event at the department of the interior as well as she was not intent at the time but she made arrangements for us to sit in her office while she was away. that became our greenroom because she love the partners -- the parkers so much. this story of emmett till's connected to so many other

stories of oppression in the american experience. that's what we talk about as well. we talk about the connection between african-americans and indigenous people in this country that in effect was built on stolen land by stolen labor. we see those connections and we talk about them. host: one of the key portions of this story with the the decision by emmett till's mother to hold an open casket funeral. can you tell is what led to that? guest: i think she had been full and she did which you need to do. his mother was prepared for this time. her mother groomed her and she was articulate and able to see through and do the right thing. she made a great choice and it took a lot of courage and a lot

of tenacity to do what she did and we respected greatly for it. host: did people try to talk her out of it? guest: i don't recall but it's something you didn't do in our society then. someone asked what kind of mother would do that. i can still see that guy talking. she had to do it and she did. host: what do you think the impact of that decision was? guest: it changed everything. one writer back in the day opened a casket and said it opened her eyes.she we had become. she wanted to see what we have become. we could no longer be innocent bystanders. everybody had to share responsibly for what we have become. anybody would do anything to make it happen and anyone who stood by and let it happen without doing anything to stop it.

that's the same message that comes through in the current book, that we have to take responsibility. there are some troubling things, deeply troubling things about the american story, things that come to light in this book. ultimately, it's a positive story in that it encourages people to do what we need to do to earn our right to be here in a free society and maintain that freedom. while we push back against people who want to censor or band or erase history, the reason we do that is because we had to embrace all the stories that make us what we are. we have to learn from the past in order to chart a better way forward. the story of may meet till mobley opening that casted -- that casket still resonates. we see that with mass shootings, uvalde was one incident where people asked whether the parents of those horribly middle-aged kids whose lives were destroyed,

whether they should show the pictures of the remains of their children. like mamie till mogley did back in 1955. they said it us about racism. we know we can teach people about the horrors of automatic weapons but we cannot do that. she is still in the conversation and people are still learning from that experience. host: i want to highlight the fact that yuko wrote a book with emmett till's mother. can you elaborate on that? guest: it was a life-changing experience for me. i am a lawyer so i'm an advocate and i'm a journalist, a past writer for ebony magazine. i was introduced to her and people were interested in rendering her story as a motion picture. within five minutes of the conversation, she found out i have written a novel and had

edited patti labelle's memoir. suddenly the conversation shifted. she was 80 years old of the time she said have always wanted to write a book. i decided this was going to be the most important thing i could do. we met in june, 2002 and we worked together for the remainder of that year. in january of 2003, she died. i knew this was going to be an important project but i didn't realize that we met for a very important reason, that we were allowed to work together the last six answer for life to make sure her story went beyond her. in that process, she introduced me to reverend parker and reverend parker and i have been together over more than 20 years. we have gone out to speak publicly about the story and when it came time for him to

write the book, he and his spouse invited me to work with them on this book. host: let's hear from osiris in chicago. caller: good morning. mr. benson, he said something that kind of got my attention. he said there can be no bystanders or something to that effect. that speaks to what i wanted to address. this emmett till story, the karen phenomenon that we see today, this cannot happen with white america's willingness to believe it. the woman that lied on emmett till, her ability to go on and live out the rest of her life in

relative peace cannot happen without white america willing to let her live the way she did. this is an indictment. i hate to say this, he to be this way, but it's true that white america itself, this is an indictment on white america. you have today worked karen's can just make up stuff or just lie on black folks especially black men and have the police called upon so they can go to jail, that is because white america is willing to believe it and eat it up. this is an indictment of white america,. this kind of stuff doesn't happen to other demographics in the united states other than black folks. no other demographic can point

to injustices like this for black folks. guest: that's a profound statement. it happen 68 years ago and didn't have the impact it has now. i tell blacks at every turn when we made progress, there was some white authority fighting our ability to stand up. he's right. i remember in the chicago area, i saw something i never saw before. usually when something like that happens, there is a protest. we had diversity back then. we said this was a change. america has changed and we thank god for those people who see the light, the whites were willing to stand up and even the prosecutor in the emmett till case. you can see how he suffered to prosecute this.

the text that he had because of that. that was a profound, true statement but we have made changes in come along way but we still got a lot of work to do. host: this is from the book -- mr. benson, take it from there. guest: people will speak the name of emmett till but they don't fully understand the story. we know he was lynched but we don't know everything else. i think that's why it's important to read this book. this book is the beginning of a discourse is something much larger than just larger than emmett till.

it's how we get to the point where there is an emmett till and a breonna taylor and a george floyd still in this society. we have to understand the structure of the society that allows this to happen. i think there are two other things that we have to understand that can give us some hope in this challenging period. one is related to journalism and the need to tell the story and tell it accurately and tell it in a balanced way. we also tell it in a contextual way and we are not getting enough of it. i'm proud of the students who come my way in contextualizing social justice reporting, graduate students who now are prepared as a result of sitting in seminars and other classes i teach on issues that arise in this current conversation. they are ready to go out and help tell the stories and look deeply into these problems.

another aspect of this is the work we've done with dr. parker in establishing the emmett till and mimi till mobley institute and the restoration of robert temple church of god in christ where emmett till that his funeral. as the site of a national memorial. what we are doing is teaching young people the emmett till story but in the context of power in america, racial power in america and we are getting amazing results. we started a curriculum with facing history and ourselves and develop that online for high school students. we are developing other educational programs including a traveling exhibition of features the story of emmett till and working in all of these ways that can help generate a new generation of enlightened discourse.

one thing that really inspired us and we talk about this in the book and we are coming up with a documentary to deal with it again is when students have gone through this exercise, white students and black students together across racial discourse, we come to understand each other much better. we have the experience of a white student in mississippi which still gets me choked up come a white student in mississippi who after studying about emmett till as a sophomore said she now realizes what her ancestors had done. but she did not feel guilt or responsibility for what they had done because you wasn't there she now felt the responsibility to go out and tell people the truth. that's the kind of transformative experience we want people to have. we are not beating up on people and being accusatory, we want to move forward to understand all the things that happened to lead us to this point so we can make it better life for our children and grandchildren. host: as far as emmett till's

death at the time, what was the impact on the civil rights movement at the time? guest: we also document that there is a connection between the trial of two of emmett's murderers and the stories that flow from that. some journalist who covered this story back in 1955 described it as the trial of the century, the biggest trial since the bruno hoffman/lindbergh baby kidnapping case. television was coming as a so there wat of television coverage and newspaper coverage is far away as europe. that story resonated with people in nearby montgomery. this trial occurred in tallahatchie county mississippi but the people in montgomery saw it and they had people from that experience what -- like dr.

howard was a leader in mississippi who came to speak at ebenezer baptist church between the trial and the beginning of another historic event. rosa parks was in that church and so was martin luther king jr. and heard about the story of emmett till. in a matter of weeks, days from that time, rosa parks took her stand on the bus in montgomery. she would say after that that there were many things that inspired her but among them was the lynching of emmett till and all the courage she saw coming out of tallahatchie county. the legal struggle for civil rights culminated at that time would brown v. board of education. the mass movement started with the montgomery bus boycott in december of 1955, year-long bus boycott. as you see, emmett till became the bridge. he was lynched because of the anger and fear of white people

reacting to brown v. board of education and ultimately, his lynching inspire those people in montgomery to hold their ground over the course of 13 months. host: reverend parker, do you want to add anything? guest: chris did a good job and he always does. host: robert in ohio, go ahead. caller: happy holidays to all of you all. i was just wondering -- i've got two questions. i just want to say the first one is black americans are the most hated people in this world. that's point-blank. if you look at the fbi statistics and everything. also, for the second question, i want to ask reverend parker, is it true that two of emmett

till's cousins surrendered emmett till for him to get killed from two white men? i don't know it's true or not because i've been reading that for a long time. i'm a man like 46 years old. i've been hearing about that. i just wanted to ask you that. host: reverend parker, go ahead. guest: there is no truth in that. like i said earlier, the story was told by people who were not there. i was interviewed years later and when i told my story, they said i allege. those stories got out there and i've heard that before. it's painful even now to think someone would write that. anything to degrade us and make

it easier for the perpetrators. it's not true, that didn't happen at all, nowhere near the truth. host: you talk about the input -- the impact of the reporting but talk about another account of this by timothy tyson. through his he and what take to be having the story and what did you think of that? guest: tyson never interviewed me or anyone. he wrote a story based on the people he talked to who told the story. these are things that were already said, he didn't do a fair investigation at all. guest: i don't know if i can add any more to that. we were disappointed to learn there is no evidence to support timothy tyson's assertion in his book that bryant had recanted.

it's in the first six pages of his book. at the end of the day, if the only interview it seems he really did. it's more than just disappointing never reached out to any family members of emmett till. his response when asked about that was they been quoted in the past so there's nothing else i need to talk to them about. he spent a couple sessions with carolyn bryant and we went through her manuscript long before it became public. we were able to review the fbi interview with him. it set out in our book. it's hard to keep up with him as he tries to explain how the evidence of that interview was lost. there was no recording even though he said there was. there were no notes even though he produced a photocopy of notes and nothing original document as he was subpoenaed to produce. the conclusion of the fbi was that there is no credible

evidence that what he asserted was even true. host: let's hear from kyle in buffalo, new york. caller: good morning. my grandfather was born in 1907 and his name was william parker and ended up in chicago. a lot of the parkers ended up in chicago and buffalo. i'm looking at reverend parker and i'm not sure if he's a relation. in the book the voice of freedom which is a civil rights narrative, emmett till starts off the book, the chapter and at the end, according to the book at least, for the two wakeman interviewed, they said -- for the two whiteman interviewed, they said they weren't going to kill emmett till. they said as god-fearing christians they had no choice but to kill him.

it wasn't their first time, people in that area doing such a thing. i'm curious how many black men during that time. were victims. i don't know if there was anybody who had any kind of investigation as you were doing your research. i'm sure stories were told about people who disappeared. america doesn't really tell this story when we get to this time. we have a guy who came in and killed two people on their color of skin. mr. benson talked about the majority not being the majority. they talk about the period were white supremacy groups are fearful of losing the majority. as we see in this election which

is quite scary, they are not republicans but they call themselves that. they're the ones trying to rollback time and the law and constitutional rights of people. host: we will let reverend parker start. guest: he said a lot of things there. physical -- critical race theory, we've never told the story. as to how many blacks in the south. we knew our place and we stayed in it and face the consequences of the whites. it was something that happened all the time. it got exposed. we had 13,000 black women raped. we never told those stories. it wasn't going to be in the main newspaper. black people would tell it but

those are some of things we suffer during that time. guest: there is so much to talk about. i know we are getting close to our time but i will say this -- in terms of the political discourse, i agree with the caller that people who are pushing for extreme right wing policies are not necessarily republicans. i don't have to talk about my own political leanings but i think it's healthy to have discourse, people with counter views, but in the context of a rich democracy, and enlightened discourse in a democratic system, the best ideas will come forward. that's not what's happening right now. what's happening right now is distorted by this anxiety about

the demographic reality we are facing. at one point, it was the late 40's and then 45 inu-oh 42 when everything will change in this country and people are scared about that. we need to understand that we all bring something of value to this national discourse. we need to have a conversation about that in order to have a conversation that's going to enrich our public policy and our lives. host: one more call perry in arizona. caller: yes, i want to ask about research dealing with writing the book, did you come up with anything piggybacking on what the young men was just talking about? at that time, you reverend, you said you're trying to school

emmett about how to act in the south. you being in a state of mental paralysis yourself, at that time because of the atmosphere and the fear of being lynched. i really wanted to touch on that particular aspect. did you research books that explained about communications of white people hanging lacks -- blacks and picking bones and carrying souvenirs around there next? host: reverend parker? guest: we knew the stories, we lived it. i was very well entrenched from day one in going to the south and i came here when i was like seven years old.

we were steeped in the ways of the south. i knew the dues and the downs because we talked about it all the time. my father had to sleep with his gun overnight. we are the stories over and over again. just we heard the stories over and over again. host: what do you want the impact of this book to be? guest: wow, the truth of course in my big thing is that people need to see mamie till's last speech. she said we have no animosity. she speaks to mankind everywhere in any situation how you should behave and conduct yourself. she is a great woman and she speaks volumes to the world. she has a gift. guest: on that note, reverend

parker is the pastor of the church that emmett till's grandmother helped build. he recognizes the positive power or for business in the negative power of -- the positive power of forgiveness and the negative power. host: the book is " a few days full of trouble." gentlemen, thank you for j announcer: this week watch washington journal" special offer series featuring live segments each morning with the new writer. on friday morning a professor of law at ucla and columbia law school discusses her book say her name.

watch washington journal live friday morning starting at 7:00 a.m. eastern with our special author series on c-span, c-span now, or online at c-span.org. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023] announcer: c-span's campaign 2020 four coverage continues with the presidential primaries and caucuses. watch live as the first votes in the country are cast in the upcoming presidential election along with candidate speeches at results, beginning with the iowa caucuses on january 15 and the new hampshire primary on january 23. aign 2024 on c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. announcer: american history tv saturday on c-span 2, exploring

the people and events that tell the american story. at 5:45 p.m. eastern a look at the life and legacy of robert oppenheimer hosted by indiana wesleyan university. speakers include an oppenheimer biographer, a washington post reporter, and department of energy advisor. at 9:30 p.m. eastern on the presidency, a discussion about the lifelong friendship of president gerald ford and president jimmy carter who found common cause in the decades after they left the white house. exploring the american story. watch american history tv saturdays on c-span 2, and find a full schedule on your prram guide or watch online anytime at >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. mediacom.

>> at mediacom we believe whether you are here or here or way out in the middle of anywhere, you should have access to fast and reliable internet. >> mediacom supports c-span as a public service along with the other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> next on book tv's author interview program, afterwards, science journalist angela saini, on patriarchy. "afterwards" is a weekly program inrviewing top nonfiction authors about their latest work. it's terrific. be here with you today will just jump right right in. i was delighted to read the

patriarch's i like your earlier books. my fir question really is, can you describe your path to getting to this book? because it's sort of a it pulls from all your other work. it does. and i think it was partly inspired by one of my previous books, inferior was a chapter in there on male dominated. and how is it that men came to rule and the question that i was constantly asked by readers was that if societies haven't always been male dominated, which think most anthropologists agree now they haven't been, then how we get to this all over the world patriarchy, which is a very warped social when you think about it, it's so widespread and yet that question is so rarely interrogated in the literature. in fact, it's been around 40 years since this was a hot topic even within feminist literature, you know, the question of origins. so i thought given how much more