on january5, the new hampshire primary on january 23. campaign 2024 on c-span. your unfiltered view of politi. ♪ >> the house and senate are in ress forheolidays and will return next week for the start of the second session for the 118th congress. both chambers face two upcoming deadlines to avoid a governmen shutdown. the first on january 19 and the other on february 2. >> we are waiting for the other team, the other side, the other chamber to come forward with a number we can agree upon. >> we will figure out the best way to get this done quickly. >> follow the progress when congress returns on the c-span network. c-span now or anytime online at

c-span.org. c-span, your unfiltered view of governnt. " host: election integrity is our topi now and david becker is error guest. he is the founder of the center for election and innovation research. remind viewers what your mission is at the center. est: i founded the center for election innovation d research in 2016, a nonpartis, nonprofit and we work with election oicials all over the country. weelp them put on elections that voters should trust and do trust so all vors can vote in a process that has integrity. host: our viewers so this story yesterday. it was from the washington

time we will get to the article but how would you describe the state of electionntegrity as we step into 2024? guest: there'been a lot of misinformation over the last few years about how our elections are done. they're more veried than we've ever had in election htory. we have more paper ballots than ever bore, 95% of all ballots we paper including all t ballots and all the battleground states. it' recount pap and make sure the counts th machines might have done were accuratendhat was done in 2020. 43 states conducted audits of those paper ballots including the battleground states. we've had more cybersecurity training and cooperation between the federaand state and local governments th ever fore. we also know that e 2020

election washe most scrutized election in americ history. more pre-election litigation that clarified the rules. seveout of eight cases filed in antipation of the election we one brepublicans. more postelection litigation th dozens challenging the results. theourts view t evidence that was presented tthem and confirmed what was originally determined by election officials all over theountry who run our elections. we sit here over three yosent the 2020 election the hasn't been a single piece of evidence presented to any court anywhere in the united states that would cast any doubt on the outcome of the 2020 election. host: why do u think there is still so mh controversy about the 2020 eleion? why is there a lack trust and calls call in and say they don't trust the results. ishat still out there? guest: there are individuals who

profit a great deal spreading lies about t elections from targeting the disappointed supporters of the losing presidentialandidate. it's completely normal and understandable to vote for someone who has lost and be disappointed. to then beargeted repeatedly with disinformation over social media and media and in other ways, to get people angry and divided and deluded about what actually happens so they keep donating. people are getting rich off of this and taking $25 fm social security checks because they are teing them that someo stole their election whh is absolute false. host: this is from that op-ed in the washington times yesterday and itrings up a couple of ises --

your thoughts on some of those issues? guest: most of that is completely false. there were some accommodations made because of covid in every state, red and blue states. >> it was all done in advance of the election. if people did not like the rules that were adopted, they could bring a challenge in court and they often did. we h more pre-election litigation than ever before. most of it was won by republicans feared did everyone like what the rules were? of course not. many people do not like electoral college but it is a rule.

rule. many people did not like the rules in texas and ohio that limited dropbox one per county. those were the rules, that was what the courts decided and they were upheld. this disinformation we continue to see about how the 2020 election was conducted is really unfortunate. the mail-in ballot anguish was necessary due to the pandemic, that was an innovation that brought out from hourly by red states. just brought out primarily from red states. it's be proven to be secure those ballots were reviewed in every case to see if they were accurate and we know the results were. host: three years later, will there be more or less ability to use a mail-in ballot this year? guest: it's about the same. maybe a little wound down from covid.

putting ourselves back in november of 2020, we didn't fully understand how covid was spread. there were thousands of people dying per day and there was concern amongst voters about going into a place, maybe a crowded polling place and being around other people. election oicials were trying to accommodate that in red and blue states. ohio had as much mail-in voting as states like georgia and the outcome was different but the rules were largely the same. i think we will see mail-in voting, the demand go back to a somewhat normalized level in 2024. the access to mail-in voting is the same as it was in 2020 and that is almost every state allows voters to request a mail-in ballot even if they don't have an excuse. it's available to voters in almost every state and that's good. host: explain with the term

ballot harvesting is. guest: it's a term that has been applied to the process by which someone might return a ball other than their own. it is often used as a pejotive term to make it seem as if something nefarious is going on. in actuality, a wife returning her husband's ballot to a dropbox or someone taking their olderarents'ballot to a dropbox in nursing homes, older residents who have le ability perhaps to have ballots taken to a dropbox. the important thing remember is male in ballots are verified where a voter request a ballot may have to be on the voter registration rolls. you cannot get on the voter rolls unless you show an id then they get verified when they come in again usually bite matching the signature or sometimes

matching a drivers license. they are verified twice and confirmed in those ballots are kept for 22 months minimumoap anyone wants to challenge them they can. there was no challenge brought. host:ow often generally are voter regisation rolls updated to ensure that the people who are living in an area are the voters in that area? guest: it's really important. americans are highly mobile, one in three americans move in any given four years and many of those people move multiple times like younger people who might move to several different residences between presidential elections. it's hard to keep up with that mobility. it was hard about 15 years ago when we didn't have access to the kind of chnology we have now. voter rolls today are more accurate than they've ever been. states regularly keep their voter rolls up to date and using data they have bailable just they have available under federal law and there is a tool available nowhat -- that i

helped develop which is nonpartisan collective of states in the states run at themselves and they shared data to try to identify people who may move beeen those states. it's been highly successful in half the states are using it and they find it helps them reduce the potential for fraud. host: david becker is our guest at the center for election innovation and research. you can check amount online. it's a good time to call in with your questio about election integrity for campaign 2024. democrats, (202) 748-8000 republicans (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002. as folks are calling in, 'm sure you so the sociated press poll on voter confidence in the election of thisear. it came out at the end of december. about one third of republicans say they have quite a bit of

confidence that votes in the republican primary election and caucuses will become to correctly. three in 10 republicans say they have a moderate amount of confidence in 32% so they only have little or none at all. 72% of democrats have high confidence. guest: this shows you how intensive this disinformation campaign has been and how partisan it has been. it doesn't really relate to reality but more on whether your candidate won or lost. that is not the definition of a secure election that your candidate won, it's whether we process these ballots and we confirm the results. today, we have the process in place better than we've ever had in american history. does that mean they can't improve? they are constantly improving. we are getting more accurate voter lists and we have a few places where paper ballots don't exist and we are getting better at auditing. the things are happening so 2024 will be more secure but the

resilience of the disinformation and the belief that people who supported the losing candidate and only by people who supported the losing candidate that e elections aren't secure is troubling we will have to keep telling them that this is a blic service. we have 100,000 public servants around the country who have devoted themselves to giving voters their voice. they are trustworthy and if you doubt it, go and visit them and talk to them and volunteered to be with them. there's a reason you need hours of training and you show up hours before the polls open and stay aft the polls close because there is so many checks and balances in the press to make sure every eligible voter who chooses to vote can cast only one ballot in that ballot counts. host: we would be glad to invite poll workers to call in.

this is john in tennessee, republican line up first. ller: yes host: what's your queion or comment? caller: i was watching the news the night of the electio. they startederking boxes out underneath a table. this iwhy we feel we got cheated because trump was way up ahead until ey did that. why did they runhem out? can you explain that? st: some of the videos and stories we hear? guest: quite frankly, there is a lot of video clips that have been mischaracterized the media. it was one particularly but he might have bn referring to fulton county, georgia where there is video of poll workers who were staying in the polling

place in the main polling couy just taking out another box of ballots, litally tens of thousands of times during election night all over the country. they are getting the next best to cou and then it was miharacterized in the press. it's important for everyone listening to understand that there were lies spread about those two women who were doing theiduty as poll workers that night. as a result of those lies, there was a nearly $150 million verdict of defamation that was stood against rudy giuliani. it's really disturbing to see our fellow aricans, people who volunteer to serve on election date being defamed like this. in every single polling center around the country where they were counting ballots, there were multiple observers from both parties in the room. we all remember the video from the detroit counting center on

election night in 2020 when a near riot started outside by people supporting former president trump, claiming they couldn't get inside to reserve. on the other cited those doors were00 observers from both parties watching the counting being done in a peaceful and orderly way under the law of the state of michigan. i just hope people of both parties across the spectrum will beighly skeptical of naatives that seek to tell them their fellow americans are their enemies and they are lying to them and they are somehow stealing elections. st: there is an article in usa today from ken bloch. who is he? host: guest: he is a former state candidate in rhode island, a publican who has alleged the potential for voter fraud in the state of rhode island and elsewhere for some time and has worked on voter fraud.

it's not surprising to trump campaign would go to him and ask him to assess how much fraud there was whether there was fraud at all. it was right after the 2020 election and he was a paid consultant of the trum campaign. he found there was no fraud he could measure that would affect the outcome of the election. this is what we've seen time and time again. we had that partisan review in arizona in maricopa county that said they found fraud but actually biden one that county. there had been assessments in wisconsin and other places. there are well over 60 court cases that looked at front and there has been no fraud. host: we found evidence that voter fraud tainted the election. this wasis study of election 2020. he said what they don't ta into account is that voter fraud is detectable and quantifiable and i get to s anyone offer up

evidence of voter fraud in the 2020 election that provides these three things. those arhis wos. doug, silver spring, maryland, inpendent. caller: hi, what i'm hearing by a lot of peopleho complain about the 2020 election is it seems like ey are not concerned about the validity of their vote. they are just any about the results. i challenge the people who were angry about the results of the 2020 election. if y think your vote did not count, that it was stolen from you, then don't vote. why would you waste your time ting if you tnk it won't matter? i'saying that but i think these people will go out and vote because it's nothe validity of the vote they care about, it's the fact that they didn't win.

host: i think that's a good point. if you ask republicans in georgia about why they lost the senate races in the runoffs of 2021 and 2023, there is a strong feeling supported by evidence that the constant narrative that elections are rigged to press their own turnout. it's a really dangerous narrative. by any measure, the 2020 election was more secure than the 2016 election which was also sick there. 2016 had fewer paper ballots and fewer audits but i said at the time that there is no evidence donald trump legitimately won the 2016 election. if you believe the 2016 election was secure, you have to believe the 2020 election was secure. they were better processes in ace and more paper ballots, more audits and more judicial review and scrutiny of that election. it's important that regardless of which candidate you support, there were 74 million people who

supported donald trump in the 2020 election. they are not bad americans. they voted for the candidate who happens to lose. 81 million people voted for the winner ithat election. they are also good americans who happen to vote for the candidate e. we have process in place with where we know that's true in the correct response when you lose an election as we saw with mitt romney in 2012 and john mccain in 2008, john kerry in 2004 and al gore i2000 going back to richard nixon in 1960, the correct responses to concede to accept the will of the voters and go on and try to win the next campaign. host: conrad, florida good morning. caller: i'm calling about the voter districting. boys is that so difficult every 10 years to be consistent? host: redistricting is really

difficult, the way we assign house districts for instance in the united states house of representatives and state legislator districts across the country. we carve up the states by geography. theris a variety of ways to do that, not to some easy way to do it. you can't do it by counties because they are not the same population. you might have a county like los angeles county that has dozens of districts in other counties are less than one. it is a very challenging circumstance to do that. to ensure political fairness and ensure racial fairness and ensure communities of interes geographies are kept together. i used to be a department of justice attorney and litigate some of these cases. it's a very challenging situation given how the laws are applied.

i have a lot of empathy for those who are trying to do it fairly. there are also times when both parties try to maximize tir political power by drawing the districts in such a way they will get more districts than maybe their share of the population in any given state. host: it's an older story from 2019 but has good examples showing some of the dirty dozen of the most gerrymandered districts that end up looking like a duck or pinwheels, fingers that reach different areas. ite isn't there one standard for redistricting or a fairer way to do redistricting so we don't have districts that in the looking like a duck? host: don't judge aistrict taste on what looks like. wh it looks like month -- might not take intoccount parts of the ld that are not occupied or take into account w population centers are

linked by highways and schools and other infrastructure. the shape itself, a square isn't necessarily the best shape for a district. th being said, redistricting, the united states supreme cour has declined to apply strict standards on those states with regardo howolitics can come into play in gerrymanding and whether they should be limited in partisan gerrymandering to pick a state that might be 60/40 and turned into a state that's 80/20. until those kind of ings happen, at the federal level, we will see the disparity in how the states do it. those disparities lead to legal challenges that are going on even now as we speak four years after 2020 after the census numbers cameut. host: patty, ne from democrats, go ahead. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call.

thank you so much for your work. it's great to see you. we appreciate it. i've gone two different polling places idifferent capacities and i'm really grateful. i have your website to go to for a resource because one of the problems we have is the misinformation. and how to talk to people about that and i appciate the way you are speakinto address those issues. that brings me to one thing i want to throw in here. thank you for responding to the op-ed inhe washington times. i felt it was extraordinarily irresponsible for pedro to read that yesterday. it jusreiterates the same ki

of disinformation were fighting daily. it would be great if c-span could read those off as whe there was someone on there who could address them facally. host: i was the one hosting yesterday and i read tha and i wanted to bring him on today to address at. we appreciate your thoughts on that. you said you beea longtime volunteer at polling facilities. why did you get started doing that? caller: i had a fantastic government teacher and civics teacher in high scol. mr.harkness, and was always inrested in the process in elections and straight out of school, i was aays registered as an independent. pennsylvania, you ve to be regiered with the party to vo in the primaries. i did eventually register as a democrat.

yeah, right out of high school because of interest in the process and he had encouraged us to do that. i am 60 years old. i've been doing it since 1981. host: thank you for doing that. guest: thank you so much. our system of governance ries on about one million volunteers. one miion pasttieall over thcountry. they might get paid a small stipend that doesn't even cover their time. they go through hours of aining and wake up at three or four in the morning on election day. th state until 10 or midnight on election nit and they follow all of these intricate processes, the checks and balances to make sure every ballot is counted accurately and no fraud occurs. th do a remkable job. our elections are a mirle and our elections are a mirac thanks to people like patty out there and thanks ther government teacher and nice to

people who have gone out and lked about their civic duty. they are not our enemies a their nuts trying steal elections. i don't care whether they are republicans or democrats, all of them are doing such important jobs in the most important thing any citizen can do they wonderbout the security our elections, join them and find e county election office and vonteered to be a poll worker and see firsthand all of the protections in place to ensure every ballot is counted accurately. host: you talked about the observers. his -- does every state allow observers in the polling facility? what are the general rules? host: to my knowledge, every state allows the observers and some have to be preregistered. they are always bipartisan. that's absolutely essential. they are an important part of the process when they do their duty correctly. they can communicate with their

campaigns to tell them what's going on and transparency is ry important to this process. the rules require they essentially beef flies on the wall. i was a justice department attorney and i used to observe election polling places around the country. i've been thousands of polling places observing elections. host: for what purpose? guest: to ensure the voting rights act was being followed. i rarely saw any fraud. the civic responsibility americans feel about their elections is remarkable. even at the justice department with the authority i had under federal law, my job was to be a fly on the wall. i sat back and didn't interfere or talk to voters or talk to poll workers and if i saw a problem, i would call the election officials charged with it and inform them so they could take care of it. observers and polling places, their job is not to interfere. one of the things we started to

see is there are people who are trained to do -- to interfere in the process, potentially making these volunteer poll workers and election officials who are doing their duty and working long hours feel somewhat unsafe. this is something we've seen across the country in the last veral years, they have been threatened, abused and harassed. it's happening as much today as it did three years ago. my organization runs the election official leave and -- election official legal defense fund. it's necessary to provide election officials with pro bono legal assistance and guidance if they feel they are being harassed or abused or not sa as we sit here tay, the elecon officialegal defense network is getting as many requests from election officials as it was when it first started

in 2021. host: this is mark, line for republicans, good morning. caller: good morning. i think the problem with the 2020 collection and theeason so many people d't respect it is that there is shenanigans going on. in the 2016 election, all we heard from the democratic party s that that election was rigged. i don't remember one democrat being called a election the mayor even though hillary clinton quentin wrote a book on it. you also had stacey abrams in georgia who lost her bifor governor who never conceded that election. she claimed it was racism or something. i think the problem is that when republicans were tryg to change voting was in georgia, but we heard it was jim crow.

e democratic party ilying by omission because the democratic party omit the fact tt it was their party that tried to keep the blk vote down for like 120 years oromething like that. it wasn't republicans the did that. that was all democrats. the other thing i wanted to mention is that on shows like these, youuys are subtly trying to ve the window. i heard the word misinfortion and disinformation since you been oin this segment. i have to remind the listeners out ther ask yourself how many times that word comes up in our coon dialogue. until joe biden got in office, you never heard thos words, the only time you would hear those words is if you were sitting in a booklub discussing 1984, the book. it's a way of implying that anybody who thinks the 2020

election was rigged must be a cry consracy theorist area we were told tsit down and shut up when this was going on and stay in our houses unless we nted to protest social justice. after the 2016 election with the russia folks and evething, it's a little puzzling. host: those ter have meaning. i use them because they have meeting in the discourse b we could use other terms like lies andefamation. that's what rudy giuliani was found guilty of by a court in order to pay one to $48 million to these two volunteer poll workers who were lying consistently for years and are ill lying. the bigg point that mark raises his good which is that anyone who is clming without evidence that elections ha been stolen that will make claims on social media or in books or anywhere else that election has been stolen without

putting that evidence in court is wrong. we should not be delegitimizing accurate, secure verified elecons in this country. anyone of any party. ho: t caller's question was was there as much outrage after 2016 when democrats were doing that as there was 2020? host: there is no question what happened in eftermath of 2016 and 2020 was different. we did n have thlosing candidate started campaign in 2016 and try to use the levers of the federal government to interfere with an election and threaten state election officers as w done with secretary of state bread raffensperger in georgia. there was limited objection by me in congress because she did concede. it did not lead to a violent attack othe capital that day. there have been instances where decrats have faileto concede

and have claimed without evidence thaelections were stolen. that is just as bad as whe republicans do it. 20/20 was a slightly different character. we are now sitting here almost exactly three years from january 6, 2021 and it seems like many of us have forgotten what it's like to watcthe evts of that day and see from where you and i sinow. i remember itntensely and i remember the statements from members of both republic and democratic party. i remember statements from people like senate leader mitch mcconnell. he was right, we should remember that in the aftermath of those events in 2020, a majority of e united states house of representatives including republican members voted to impeach president trump o former president trump are having insht and insurrectio that was the language of the articles of imachment. 57 members othe u.s. senat

voted to convict him that was 10 short of the twthirds majority necessary. it included seven republicans. that conviction would have led to his disqualification for inciting insurrectio this is something we had not seen before, it was a different character t i definitely agree with the calr. we should not be delegitimizing elections because we are happy -- because we are unhappy with the outcome. we should require the candidates bring edence to court to support their claim and if they can't, they should concede and cooperate in the peaceful transfer of power. host: mary, michigan, independent. caer: hi, john. i have a couple of questions and then a statement. i am sitting in the state of michigan which wasecounted by our republican run congress three times and they hand counted one time. joe biden was shown to have one bite 155,000 votes.

more than three years later, the head of the republican party in the state of michigan has torn that party to shreds basically. it's because of the big lie. they have come to blows at a few of their meetings. i hear this almost daily in the state of michigan. ople will actually say that there should only be one day of voting ithis country in 2024, one election day and you should have to show up at the polls, they should be paper ballots and they should be counted by hand. how people think this would be possible -- we wouldn't know the winter for months. there would be chaos in the streets. i hear this daily and i heard it on c-span the other day. host: i think there was a caller that said there should be no such tng as computerized ballots. that was earlier this week. caller: it's impossible.

i wanted to ask about the lawsuit by the machine company, the lawsuit by the different news outlets and how those are ing. that's the same boat as dominion. their business was ruined and people's lives were ruined over the big lie. host: thank you for those questions. guest: that's a great set of questions. this is quite accurate that michigan was decided by nearly 100 55,000 votes, all paper ballots and elections in michigan are run by clerkwho are republicans and democrats. the elections are run by a bipartisan center and i work with them all the time and they are incredibly professional across the spectrum. the ballots were recanted and audited in the margin was almost 15 times the margin of 2016 when donald trump won the state of

michan. yet we still see this disinformation, one of the leaders in the senate, a republican did a complete assessment and looked atll of the aspects of the 2020 election and determine the election was decided accurately and correctly based on the laws of the state. there has been bipartisan cooperation in michigan yet we still see a lot of the lies persist about what's going on. these descriptions we hear from some who start their analysis saying i don't like the outcome of the 2020 election, things like having all voting happened on one day. that's a really bad idea for an election security perspective. you have single point of failure concentrating 150 or 160 million voids -- votes into 12 hours. if there had been fraud or malfeasance or malfunction, it would decimatehe election

system if it happened on election day. if you want a secure system,ou want to spread voting out over various modes over time. the best systemhich almost every state has to make it easy to request a male in ballot you can vote by mail a make it easy to vote early in person if that's what you choose, i choose personally to vote that way and make i easier to vote on election day. they are all secure methods spreading voting out over days makes it the most secure. with regard to the hand counts, that's something we've heard in several states. if you want an accurate, costly counts of ballots, you should have humans do it. humans are very bad at repetitive functions of counting ballots. american ballots are among the most complex in the world. there's is not one race on the ballot, there are multiple pages and dozens of races in places like nevada and when they tried

it, they found it would take months to count all the ballots. even then, you'll probably get an inaccurate account and you will have to do it over. host: we've been looking domesticly so how much do you focus on foreign interference in the elections? host: i'm very concerned about foreign interference and we focus on that to some degree. we've seen that ramp up and it occurred in 2016 and 2020. it even occurs in the midterm elections. some agencies found tha autocratic nations like russia and iran and china are actively seeking to spread lies and yes that word disinformation in 2022 and they are likely to do it again in 2024. they have a great deal of incentive not just to try to elect a particular candidate but even more so to spur the kind of divisions we currently see that these lies lead to.

these are lies about our ections and lies about whether elections work and democracy. it helps dictatorships. they want americans to be divided. they want americans to be unsure whether the person who took office actually one and it helps them a great deal. the people who are profiting off of those lies, the people telling people they cannot trust elections and getting rich off of it, whether they do it intentionally or unintentionally are doing the work of dictatorships overseas. host: hagerstown, maryland, ken, fort set -- fort smith, arkansas, you are on. go ahead. caller: my deais tha the 2020 election was fine. with all the lies going around, i'm wondering if donald trump will somehow try to steal the election.

he is the liar in chief, over 100 thousand lies at least by now. i've got a short story. when i was 15, i got aested for petty theft. that was 100 $20. i went to jail on a friday and i saw the judge on a monday and he gave me 22 more days, court costs and two years probation. i'm wondering which of these judges will have thecojones to lock this guy up finally. host: i think it's dgerous whenever we talk about elections where candidates don't have control over elections. former president trump is no longer in control of the federal government which doesn't run elections anyway. i have absolute confidence that the 2020 for election will be as secure as any election we've ever held. we've got all of the protections in place and these public servants, the people we rely

upon to give us our voice will do an amazing job as they have in 2023 and 2022 and 2021 and 2020 during a global pandemic. they will do their job even with the threats and harassment and even the attrition because of the threats and harassment. they will do their job. the question is whether leaders of both parties are going to stand up to perhaps members of their own party and speak the truth. right now, the republican national committee is encouraging their voters to vote by mail. this is not unusual. it's something they have done many times before. it makes sense for campaigns to want to bank as many of the votes for their candidate as they can. they have less to do on election day and they don't have to knock on his many doors. any art campaign does that and they are pushing that it's a good thing and it's something the democratic party likely does as well but they are having trouble because they are still

getting disinformation from some of their own candidates about security of mail-in voting. that only hurts them when they take an option away from one of their own candidates. it's incumbent on both parties to speak the truth to their own voters and tell them we can trust elections and if we lose, we lost legitimately and we will come out fighting to win the next campaign. host: lt call from maryland, republican, good morning. caller: here's my question for you and it rlays off of what mary said. no ones asking that week not count the paper ballots but in maryland, we do paper ballots and we put them through machine that counts them automatically. i've got no problem with that because now u've got a paper ballot as a backup my problem is that in 2020, we had the greatest change in election history of all time. it was the greatest change ever.

because of covid, we went across thetates to this mail-in ballot thing. i've been in business,'m a church leader and i rk with threpublican party with the campaign. none of these databases are accurate. they're all maybe 95% of people moving or dying or whatever. i know they try to keep it up-to-date. i've tried it in church and buness and our voter rollsnd so forth but theare never 100% accurate, they can't be, it's impossible. as you know, the elections are won by a very few percente of voters in three or four states. in georgia come i think it was 12,000 voters who wanted for biden. when i'm saying is i have no trus that we now have an electioneason. i wt one day votinwith absentee balloting.

i want peoe verified. i trust those people are adding up the ballots correctly but the ballots coming to them, how do we know these ballots, how do we know they are accurate? i don't know the source for this. ere was a survey done in a survey of people who did mail-in ballot thing. it came back that e in five filled out a ballot for someon bedes themselves host: let me have david becker take up those issues. guest: first of all, not as many laws were changed in 20 in regard to mail-in ballot things. certain states allowed more in states like georgia, it was the same law they had had since before covid. pennsylvania passed their law in 2019 before covid.

arizona have the same mail-in ballot and laws it always had for two decades. nevada, the same. these were very common laws for everyone. every male ballot in the country is verified when it gets nt out and verified when it comes back in. it's usually by signature matching and sometimes like in georgia and minnesota, by matching drivers license numbers. that is done every time. we could discover fraud if it occurred and that's true. people were submitting hundreds thousands or tens of thousands of male in balloting falsely for voters who had not requested then or had not sent them back in. one of those voters, 50% or more of them would show up and try to vote in person and they decoded in the poll book as having already requested a mail-in ballot. if that happens, they to bring in the black -- the blank ballot and surrender it.

what we mighhave done is discover the potential fraud which is rare but it sometimes happens. when it happens, it's detectable ends very easily found and prosecuted. there is so many protections about this. mail-in ballot's been around since the civil war in many states have been doing this for decades. they have secure elections. donald trump one more states with high percentages of mail-in ballots then hillary clinton and 2016. that's consistent across elections. male invalidating -- male in balloting does not trend one way or the other. host: for more election, innovation.org. >> a lawsuit has bee filed in pennsylvania to remove

congressman scott perry from the 2024 ballot under the insurrection clause. he represents pennsylvania's. 10th district. the lawsuit calls for pennsylvania secretary of state chmidt to bar congressman terry from the ballot. it also alges he helped push conspiracy theories. . advanc efforts to root replace the attorney general -- replace the attorney general. follow all of our 2024 campaign coverage on than networks or with c-span now, our mobile video app. ♪ >> c-span's washingt journal, discussing the lest issues in government, politics and public policy. from washington and across the country. coming up thursday morning, the chief economics correspondent discusses the u.s. economic outlook for 2024.

a crime analyst talks about the record drop in u.s. homicides and other recent crime trends. washington journal. join in the conversationive at 7:00 eastern thursday morning on c-span, c-span now or online at c-span.org. ♪ >> t housend senatare on recess for the holidays and will return next week for the second session of the 118th congress. the sete conned on january 8 and the house on jenny wh i. -- january 9. >> they are ready to do the work. we are waiting for the other team, the other side to come forward with a number we can agree upon. >> leader macconnell and i will figure out the best way to get this done quickl

we do not want a shutdown. >> follow the progress when congress returns on the c-span network, c-span now or anytime online at c-span.org. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these television cpanies and more, including cox. >> it is extremely rare. >> hi. >> friends do not have to be. >> this is joe. >> you are not alone. >> cox supports c-span as a public service along with these other providers. giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> now a discussion on how millennial and genz americans view the conservative movement.

part of itfr