♪ host: good morning. it is sunday, january 28, and this is "washington journal."

our question for you today, what is the importance of week as you consider who to vote for -- importance of the economy as you consider who to vote for in this year's election? how do you feel about the economy and your financial security? who do you think will do a better job of addressing any concerns you have? democrats, we want you to call us at (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. you could also send us a text message at (202) 748-8003. please include your name and where you live. us on facebook.com/c-span and on x. well this week, president joe biden said there were new

indicators to celebrate when it comes to the economy. i am reading from an article on abc news's website. it says biden credits americans for the strong economy and turning the economy around. part of what he was referencing was statistics that showed a 3.3% growth, 3.3% annual pace of growth of the gdp, which is a key economic indicator. let's watch now some of his comments at an event in wisconsin on wednesday, where he talked about those economic indicators. [video clip] >> just last week, we saw the biggest jump in 30 years in how positive consumers are feeling about the economy. things are finally beginning to

see -- we passed a lot of good legislation. we knew it would take time to tickle but it is taking hold now and turning the economy around. america filed 16 million new business applications since i have become president. that is a record. [applause] the reason i mention it, when someone files for new business, it is an example of hope. they believe they could get something done. the active hope started a while ago. and yesterday, we learned the economy of the u.s. grew by 3.1% last year. i don't want to bore you with all the details but the experts from the time i got elected were insisting a recession was around the corner. every month, it was going to be a recession. well, you know, we have gotten strong growth. the headlines from the wall

street journal and other papers, the u.s. shatters expectations. the second headline, the u.s. economy boomed in 2023. u.s. economy grew at a shocking pace. i love that shocking pace piece. but my favorite is from the "washington post." by the way, the economic growth is stronger that we had during the trump administration. he was hoping for the economy to crash. economy to crash. can you believe it? he says he hope it happens soon while i am president. that is what he is hoping for. america now has the strongest growth and lowest inflation rate of any major economy in the world. it is because of you.

we have more work to do but we are making real progress. host: again, that was president biden speaking in wisconsin. that was on thursday. his comments about the economy. as a reminder, we want to get to your calls in a moment. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. before we get to your phone calls, let's look at the other side. here is a recent add by the campaign for former president donald trump where he takes on the biden administration on the economy. >> everywhere you look, trump beach biden on the economy. take-home pay of $6,000 under trump. under biden, down $7,000. mortgage rates low under trump. punishing under biden.

personal and retirement investments up 40% under trump. under biden, your investments spell along with other things. s economy great again. >> i am donald j. trump, and i approve this message. host: again, that was a campaign ad by former president donald trump, who again is running to return to the white house. it is widely expected that in november, it will be a rematch between trump and biden, but now we want to hear more from you. the question, what is the importance of the economy as you decide who you are going to support in 2024? let's start off with shirley in pennsylvania, democratic line. shirley, you are on. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i just listened to president

, and there is never more in my mind that i am going to vote for that man. he is a wonderful president. i wish the people could see that. i am 92 years old. i have lived through many presidents. the did biden as far as i am concerned is trying to make our country great. all donald trump wants to dwell on it is the border. washington, both sides, the senate and congress, are trying to bring up a plan to do something about the border and now congress doesn't want to go along with it and i think. i wish they would start getting along and everything would work itself out.

i think donald trump would be the worst person to run our country. he has no dignity. he just has no dignity whatsoever. i am embarrassed even to hear him speak. i just want everybody out there in the united states to please, please just listen to president biden. i know he is elderly, but us elderly people, we still have our right minds and we try to do the right thing. i love my neighbors. i have neighbors that are republicans, neighbors that are democrats, and we get along. it has to stop. these people have to stop fighting. as far as the economy is concerned about my son and daughter had me out shopping

asked and there was tons desk out shopping -- out shopping yesterday and there was tons of people out there in restaurants and the stores. there is nothing wrong with our economy whatsoever. host: all right, i will stop you there. appreciate your call this morning. let's go to elise and warren, ohio, democratic line. what are your thoughts? caller: thank you for having my call. when it comes to the economy and particularly the commercial issue with trump, he is lying about the investments going down under biden. that is a flat out lie. the stock market is at an all-time high, not to mention the cost to buy a house or basically at an all-time high, so everybody invested in a home is going up so trump is just a liar, people. don't care. but when it comes to the economy, we have always had a problem with the way we measure it. it has always been measured in a macro sense, and people live in

a micro economy. they don't live in the macro. when it comes to the micro economy, there is a lot of different variables that make the situation either good or bad. a lot of people see the little things in the micro economy, and that is not exactly how the overall economy is doing. that has been going on since we have been measuring the economy. by all standards that we measure it, the economy is great today. in the macro sense, and there is no reason to stand there and say otherwise. you can complain about the price of eggs. eggs have gone up to at one point they were $3.50 a dozen. i got them a month or two ago $.89 and now they are back to $2.10. they fluctuate all the time. gas prices fluctuate all the time.

that is the micro economy. when you are living in that economy and you are on a fixed income like i am, social security or something like that, you can feel it sometimes. you get behind or you get ahead. it all depends on the micro things you are buying. that is basically it. host: thank you. thank you for your call. thank you for your call. he mentioned the record stock market highs so i want to read a little bit. this is an article by usa today that says, take a look at your 401(k), the s&p 500, and dow jones just hit record highs. this article is from about a week ago, but i would read a little bit of what it says. it says the s&p 500 pushed deeper into record territory monday, welcome news for americans's retirement accounts after notching its first record growth since january of 2022 on

friday. the benchmark index continued to climb monday and closed at 4850.43, up .22%. the dow jones industrial average surpassed its 2022 peak last month, finished the day above 38,000 for the first time while the nasdaq composite climbed 0.32%. it says the milestone followed major stock market declines in 2022, wall street's worst year since the great recession. at the time, investors were concerned about high inflation, high interest rates, and a possible recession. the s&p 500 dipped about 25%. "it took more than two years but the s&p 500 finally made it back to new all-time highs, that ryan -- said detrick.

this is a great reminder to investors that although we have seen many worries and concerns over the past two years, investors are usually rewarded over time." again, that is the usa today article about recent record highs with the stock market, but our question for you is, how important is the economy as you decide who to support in 2024? let's go to the republican line now. ted is calling from cleveland, ohio. good morning, ted. good morning. i just want to point out, i don't understand the democrats calling in. they obviously don't have any 401(k) they lost money on. they must not have. they have not taken a trip down by the border. heaven forbid any illegals -- i just don't understand what they see in joe biden. host: you plan on supporting? caller: what is that? host: who do you plan on supporting in the presidential

election? caller: obviously donald trump. host: tell me more. caller: i don't understand what joe biden -- how he has helped anything. the interest rates are climbing up. and these democrats called in. i don't know where their world revolves in. they live in some sort of -- in a glass jar that they have no idea what is going on in the economy out there. host: all right. caller: but increase with the tax and spend attitudes. host: we appreciate your call this morning, ted. next up is niesen in california. democratic line. you are on. caller: thank you very much. i want to talk about something that president biden has done that is not recognized and is a tremendous accomplishment.

i am a retired postal worker. i can't read mail for 37 years. for trump -- first, president -- i can't read mail for 37 years. the trump wanted to cut down jobs and service down to five days a week. also, they put into place a plan where the post office would be the only organization, public or private, national or international, to pay 75 years in advanced and health benefits. no one does that. president biden eliminated that, and we are now able to invest in trucks and infrastructure, so president biden has done a tremendous job for the post office, and i appreciate the work he has done. i just wanted to say that because that is a truly

unrecognized accomplishment that he has done, and i thank you for your time, and have a nice day. let's hear from esther now in arkansas, republican line. caller: hello. i have been listening just for a short period of time this morning but i heard people say there is no difference in the economy now and that everything is wonderful. it is not. for those of us who do not make an awful lot of money, it is very difficult for us now. biden went in and said he was for the people. ■(the lower income in the middle class people. he wanted to make our lives better. he has made our lives nothing but worse. everything i can think of is worse since he has been president, and it did not take long.

just as soon as he got in there, everything changed. all of a sudden, i can't go to the grocery store and buy everything i need and want like i could when trump was in there. the gas has always been higher since he has been in there. and everything else has been higher since he has been the president. yes, i will vote for donald trump. and i hope that other people will see what biden has done to our country and vote for donald trump. thank you. host: all right, esther. appreciate your call this morning. next, we have matthew. matthew in somerset, ohio, independent line. caller: hi, how are you this morning? host: doing well. caller: i think my boat is probably going to be affected by the economy because i am a small business person. i work for myself and kind of

rely on new work come again and i don't see a lot of it, and the price of expenses to get stuff done, it has been tough. let alone just going to the grocery store, but i am probably going to vote for whoever will be the republican. just not impressed with joe biden. i voted for him before, but i think i am changing my mind. host: i know you said you are probably going to vote for whoever is the republican nominee. right now, the two main republican■w candidates are forr president trump and former ambassador nikki haley. do you have a conference which the two of them of who you would like to see become the nominee? caller: who i would like to see, i would really like to see nikki haley. i really would like to vote for a female for president, just to

say i was part of it. besides, i think i like and respect her. i think she is pretty steady and smart on her feet. she is not too abrasive, and that is important. host: all right, matthew. appreciate your call this morning. speaking of nikki haley, she was at a rally in north charleston in her home state of south carolina. she addressed the nation's $34 trillion national debt and talked about how to fix the economy, and she said republicans can't just blame biden. [video clip] >> i would love to tell you that biden did that to us and he sent us down this roller coaster of socialism that is dangerous that we have to stop, but i have always spoken to you in a hard truths through good times bad, and i will do that with you

tonight. our republicans did that to us, too. [applause] you go back and looked at the 2.2 trillion dollars covert stimulus bill they passed with no accountability. the expanded welfare that has now left us with 80 million americans on medicaid, 42 million americans on food stamps. that is a third of our country. it republicans try to make it right? no. they doubled down and opened up earmarks for the first time in 10 years, passing through 7000 of them last december. want to know how they spent your money? $30 million on an honors college in vermont, $10 million to tear down a hotel in alaska. $7.5 million on a courthouse in colorado. and the list goes on. india 2024 appropriations budget, republicans put in $7.4 billion worth of projects and

earmarks. democrats put into $.8 billion now, you tell me who the big spenders are. all while one in six american families cannot pay their utility bill. so how do we fix our economy? the first thing is we clawback to 100 billion dollars of unspent covid money out there. instead of 87 irs agents going after middle america, let's go after the hundreds of billions of dollars of covid fraud. one out of every seven dollars west spent fraudulently. [applause] if 8% of our budget is interest, quit borrowing. cut up the credit cards. you have to balance a budget every day. i had to balance a budget as governor. why is congress the only group that refuses to balance a budget? [applause]

you will stop the spending. we will stop the borrowing. we will eliminate that earmarks and i will eliminate any spending bill that does not take us back to pre-covid levels. that will save us trillions. host: again, that was former south carolina governor, former ambassador nikki haley, who is competing with former president trump for the republican nominee for president. as a reminder, our question for you this morning is, what is the importance of the economy in your 2024 vote? democrats, we you to call us at (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. back to the phone lines, i will read a couple does we received on facebook. jim writes, the economy is important in preparing for the

economic collapse caused by debt will be a huge facr in the election. the biden green new deal is showing itself to be a failure for middle-class americans. sandy in bloomington, indiana, sent us a text message. it says the economy is second only in importance to abortion rights. both rso are why i will vote for pridt biden. joseph from las vegas is a republican who texted, my boat regarding the economy is extremely important. this is why i am planning on votingoronald j.by the way, i 'm in therimary because he is not on the ballot. this is outrageous. i think he is talking about the caucus ballot in the better. brad -- in nevada. brad writes, how do people

observe a 10% year-over-year ice increase and not consider their vote? who needs enemies with ship like this? i will do one more. charles on facebook says the economy is doing great. low unment, rising wages, and the child credithelp young working families. statistics show economies are much better under democrat le than republicans. all republicans want to do on the economy is give the wealthy, themselves, campaign donors tax cuts. so again, that is sponsors we are perceiving on social media, but we want you to call in and let us know about how the economy is playing out as you make your decision ahead of 2024. we would hear now from carol in wisconsin, democratic line. caller: good morning to get a sense for listening to me. i come from very much the lower income bracket, and when i was

young, i saved my money and was scared to death i would not have enough to eat when i retired. and i am surprised. i have money. i own my own house. i can travel whenever i want. and i can't believe when i look at my 401(k) i money i have saved -- and my money i have saved and am amazed at the life i live. about the border, republicans complain all the time about the border but they do nothing but complain and yell and wanted for a political thing -- want it for a political thing. biden came in and he wanted $10 billion to help the border, but of course the republicans did not want it. he was too busy with covid and the chips program and other programs to spend a lot of money on it. but it is the democrats that actually want to do something about the border. it is the republicans that want

to just yell about it and have it for political. and can i say if you actually look at the national that, when democrats are income it goes down. when republicans come in, it goes up. trump put in a $2 billion tax cut for those in the upper 10%. did not pay for it. when the democrats came in, they wanted people look into tax cheats like the covid tax cheats, like the very wealthy, but of course when the republicans now are very busy, they don't want to have the rich to be able to look in at their tax cheats. they just want to give it to the very wealthy. i can't believe if the republicans come in again we are going to lose our democracy.

but thank you for letting me spout off and feel better about it. i hope we all do. god bless america. host: let's go to rockwell, texas, now. monty on the republican line. caller: yeah, good morning. i am enjoying your show and appreciate the opportunity to have a word about several things. about three years ago when president biden took office, one of the first things he did was to vacate all of the armament of the united states army unit air force base, and there was $60 billion to $80 billion of armament. everything that we had from small arms to ak-47s to tanks and airplanes and helicopters. he gave that away. hamas and all of the -- those

radicals of the middle east now have access to that. look at the wars we have going on. where did they get all of that armament? they were selling it. i lived in the middle east for three years and worked in iran back in the 1970's, and i understand how easy it was to vacate that equipment and not give it to the israelis or any country that is our friend. they lost out on that. hamas is using that against the country. look at the wars and the equipment they are using. that is one of the first things i wanted to say. the second thing is regarding the economy. everybody touts the fact that we are now in the highest stock

market values. look at how the inflation was put in so the stock market is nothing more than repressing the inflation that has happened in the general economy, so that is not a point to be proud of. the third part is the texas border. i live in texas, and i see what has happened there. i have been there. it is disgraceful. trump did build a wall, and it is beautiful to see the wall dividing us. i have been to 30 different countries and everywhere we went, you had to have a passport at a visa to get into those countries. and even back when some of the european countries were still communist and germany and trying to cross in from east germany to west germany, we sat two hours waiting for them to check our passports. now, there are no passports that you have millions of people in

america with no passports, nothing to do. i have been in new york, chicago with the larger cities, and the dallas area how badly it is, and it is truly a crime what biden has done to the immigration program and how he violated them and that water wall. host: i am going to stop you. we will be talking more about the border wall later in the show, but for right now, we want to keep this conversation focused on the economy and how that is factoring into your vote in 2024. again, democrats, call us at (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. on the line now, wanda on the

independent line from indiana. caller: hello? host: yes. caller: hello. i am very happy with the economy at this point, but i am 91 years old. i grew up in a really low income and always worked in low-income because we did not have good education. but we were able to amass retirement, so now, so many of the companies don't have a retirement plan. this is a tragedy because when people are going from job to job and no retirement plan, i am wondering down the road will happen with that. i feel that biden has helped us tremendously with the insurance for the elderly especially that of course recently i believe for the diabetics, which so many people are diabetic.

i think he has done a great thing for that. i am concerned that people are donating money to trump to pay for his attorney bills, and he always says i don't know that woman and i have never seen that woman, and then they show a picture and he thinks the picture of her where he and his other wife are there and talking directly in her face and he think it is his ex-wife, his second , and they don't show this. they don't ow that he did see this woman. he did know this woman. he lies every time they turn around. they also show getting off the bus where he says people like him can grab a woman anytime they want because that is just ok, so he lies about everything.

his attorneys believe him. january 6 was just a fake, it is just pathetic. i am so afraid people are going to put him back in, and i hate to think about voting for biden because i do worry he is not able to handle all of this, but recently, trump has made some great mistakes in his mind and not talking correctly. they don't talk about that too much either, but i guess that is ok because that is trump. that is what they always say. that is trump, that is him, so don't worry about it. i thank you for taking my call. i love nikki haley. i love nikki haley. and i would give anything for them to give her a chance instead of saying she doesn't have a chance. host: if it was haley as the republican nominee, you would support her over biden?

caller: oh, i would support her, yes. i would support her over biden. host: thank you for your call this morning. let's go to tucson, arizona, now. david, democratic line. caller: good morning. i appreciate your show and the toughness of your job. i would like to talk about the economy. i have heard too much from the last few callers. in 1983, i bought my first home. 9.5 interest-rate that i started out. it rolled up to 12.5%. people are complaining about the interest-rate. you don't understand what we went through back then -- people don't understand what we went through back that. by way just and everything -- my wages and everything have gone just phenomenal. my son is in the industry.

i don't hear him complaining about the money. economy to me is fantastic. could not be better. i appreciate you. interest rates, gas prices are the same as in 2018. look it up. host: all right, david. all right, david. appreciate your call. let's go to the republican line now. paul is in west palm beach, florida. caller: hi, thank you for taking my phone call. i want to bring up three things. first thing is biden promised before the election he will be a moderate. he would bring people together. look at the way he talks now. he is the one causing division. number two, they want to open the water. 9 million illegal people. guess who will take care of it, you and me.

third point. host: paul, you still there? caller: ythe price. i go to the grocery store. the price of milk, about $4.50 in florida. it used to be under two dollars. think about all of these things. they can do all the lying but think about all of these things. host: all right, paul. let's stick to florida, but we will go to the democratic line. nina is on. caller: hey, good morning. the economy to me -- we just heard nikki haley talking about covid money. none of them in congress have spent the covid money, so we need to do that and give that to american health care people.

and also, i look at both president biden and former president trump, either one of them like animals. they don't like dogs. they are always putting down canines. to me, that shows your character. if you don't like a dog when you don't deserve to be in office. president obama was the last one that had an animal in the office that was not abused joe biden abuses this german shepherd. but anyway, rock on, america. carry on, we can get through this. host: all right, nina. next up is blake. blake is calling from wichita, kansas. independent line. caller: morning, c-span. i am a first time caller. nice to be calling. i will make this quick so you can get other people in. i mean, part of the reason the economy itself is not

necessarily so bad, it is more so the inflation that is killing us, and there is a few reasons. it is because of the supply chain issues and everything not being in stock like it used to be before covid. and then we have the housing market. because of the shift to work from home during the pandemic, that has had an effect. and then russia's invasion of ukraine best with the food supply and energy prices. host: all right. oh, go ahead. you finishing up? go ahead yeah. once the supply chain normalizes

and we get that caught up where at least the strain on it eases, hopefully inflation will begin to go down further. host: all right, blake. we appreciate your call. blake mentioned one of the factors that contribute to people's outlook on the economy, inflation being one of them. let's look at some of the latest polling on the issue. this is from pew research. the title says americans are more upbeat on the economy, but it also points out that president joe biden's stock ratings remain lowagain, this iw research center. the first chart shows how those who say economic conditions in the country are excellent or good, and it starts off at the

far left. that is in 2016. again, that was right at the end of the obama presidency. we see the blue line is democrats. the gray line is the total. and the red line is republicans or those who lean republican. so let's go to the current day. as you see, all three lines have ticked upward, but you still have democrats having a much more positive outlook than report is. 44% of democrats or democratic leaning people pulled said the economy was excellent or good compared to 28% overall and just 13% of those who are republican or republican leaning. i want to show one more chart again from the pew center polling. this is the one when they asked,

what do -- why do americans rate the economy the way that they do? that is the chart i want to show you. from those who stay the economy is excellent for good, 43% of them reference low unemployment. 18% say it is because inflation is down. 10% site wage growth. 9% have positive mentions of the stock market. 5% talk about the u.s. outperforming economic expectations. among those who say the economy is only fair or poor, 28% site high inflation. 21% cite high cost of living. 15% say lack of good paying jobs or low wages. 7% cite the national debt.

6% cite high cost of food and groceries. 6% cite high cost of housing. 6% cite high interest rates. another 6% either have negative mentions of biden or democrats. 5% cite illegal immigration. and another 5% cite wealth inequality. so it just shows the different factors that contribute to how people view the economy and whether they rate it as good or excellent or fair or even poor. that is again from the pew research center. but we want to hear more from you. what is the iortance of the economy as you decide who to pport in 2024? democrats, (202) 748-80. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002.

let's read a few more of the responses from social media. alex on facebook writes, best economy in over 50 years. wage growth is outpacing inflation. historically low unemployment. atore could we ask for? i think i would like to continue on the path we are on rather than the path of chaos. sandy on x rights, i trust biden with the economy, and i will te blue. believes in the working class, in the middle class. i also know he will not t social security. james on x rights, economy is important, but comssn first. the economic decisionsn because it is not a business. it is a nation. that all citizens are meeting all needs should be the goal of

all economic plans. and michl writes the eno is a very important part in making the decision on who to vote for. for the first time sin the 1970's, we now have an economy where wage increases barely f at all keep up with the rising cost of goods needed to live. so again, those are some of the responses on social media. let's go back to the phone lines. we will start with frank in silver creek, georgia, republican mine. what are your thoughts, frank? caller: yeah. the economy to me -- biden has done nothing for the economy. because, numberg population. right now, 10,000 people per day are turning 65 and retiring.

by 2033, half the population is going to be over 65. that leaves 50% of the population left and 25% of that will be children. the other 25% will be the workingmen, the working class. ok, we will pay a price for what is going on. now, we let 7 million illegal immigrants in here. i guess we will try to assimilate them into our economy. but the fact is, that most americans are totally ignorant about what is coming down the road 10 years from now, which is not being addressed. the crisis of aging america. host: so, frank, who do you think will be the best to address it as president? caller: i don't think either one because big government got here. i really don't think either one of them will be the best. i vote republican.

will -- everybody thinks they would just kick 7 million people out of this country. that is not going to happen. once they are here, they are here. they will vet them and we need to get them in the economy so they are paying social security, but all of this business when you have 300,000 people a month retiring you bunch of idiots. what do you think? the only thing he is doing is selling out to china. he is building a bunch of ev factories around here. when he gets elected, inflation, baby. gas is going to go up to three dollars, four dollars a gallon. no, the immigrant party, the democrats, are not the one that need to run the country. we need republicans in there and you need to tell the truth. stop lying thinking everybody is stupid. host: all right, frank in

georgia. leon, let's hear from leon in virginia beach, virginia, democratic line. caller: good morning. the first thing is that we need to go back to k-12 education. but the economy is down on the list of things that are going to tell how i vote. the economy right now, unemployment is going down. jobs, confidence, the chips program, what he is doing about diabetes and the others. my most important thing is we live in a democracy.

then we have to worry about abortion rights and then we have to worry about character. no one seems to talk about character. no one. everyone expects a man who has been bankrupt six times, a man who has bankrupt a casino, a man who added $7 trillion to $8 trillion to the debt during the four years he was in, everyone expects this manual coming to america, but he will not -- this man will commit to america, but he will not. nikki haley along with rick scott of florida and the republicans want to end medicare or reduce or end social security. talked about privatizing social security. you pay five times social

security with the way the markets are right now. but help this the person going to privatize social security? people seem to be more ignorant every day. people are saying things that on the sixth, they were tourists. people are saying who got locked up her hostages and that we should not help ukraine. people say we should not continue to support israel with what they are giving to the palestinians. people are not going to appropriate money so that we can see taiwan does not falter china. i am really amazed when i hear some of these people saying it.

interest rates were 20%, but we survived. we own our house, but people talk about is if trump did something. he passed one bill that gave the top 5% to 10% a break. that is all he did. these republicans in charge now, they are here. that is it. host: all right, leon. i am going to stop you there. we appreciate your call this morning. we will move onto frank in new york, independent life. go ahead, frank. frank, are you there? caller: the republicans are really stupid. they think the economy is bad. it is not. one day i was surfing the channel and landed on fox news,

and a lady said eggs were $11 a carton. i could not believe that because ion o eggs. 18 is a carton for three dollars. i am sitting up here like, they believe anything those people tell them without questioning the truth. the economy is fine. everybody is working. if you are gas and everything -- speaking of gas, my guest is only $3.63 -- gas only $3.63 a gallon. and i drive a very expensive 1, 3 of them. let's talk about joe biden and destroying the country and inflation. it depends.

if you live in a republican state, hey, they might be gouging you to death just to get you angry because where i am at, everybody is working, the price of everything is down. if they are gouging there are cases in corporate society that are gouging people just to add more money. it makes things difficult, but you have to get to your representative and say, heym there is something■f wrong heren my state, -- hey, there is something wrong here in my state. that is your people. by the way, as far as the palestinians and israel, read ■j■)deuteronomy 28, everybody. thank you. host: all right. let's go to the republican line next.

pete in montauk, new york, go ahead. caller:.thanks -- good morning. thanks for having me on. say inflation is down. you people realize when inflation went up 10%, prices went up 10% and now it is up 2% on top of that. people don't know what they are talking up. we need to get the government out of the way. we need to stop racist policies. the illegal immigration invasion is killing us in new york. they are kicking kids out of schools and putting them on home teaching. this is costing us money. how about taking care of chicago, detroit, the poor people of the united states, and having a system that comes in? we have a system. everyone keeps saying it is broken. no one tells you what the system is because they don't want to tell you it is broken. we are just being invaded and that is really hurting our economy. thank you very much for having

me on. a great day. host: all right, pete. charles in washington, d.c., democratic line, what are your thoughts about the economy and how it is impacting your decision for 2024? caller: it is simple. i know the last president, trump, he ran up the deficit to $8 trillion to the rich and the superrich, the millionaires and billionaires. and then to come back and ask for small donors to send him five dollars to $10 from around the country, he says for them to support him. the live hurts 1000 times and he has told a lot of lies along the way it is amazing how people still support somebody is been convicted as a rapist. he said he would do it.

he said on tv he would grab a woman by her private parts, and now they fnde did it and they still support the person with no character, nontegrity. it is absolutely amazing how you can have somebody in their without compassion. this country nds compassion. the last president, trump, he had no compassion it is rlly disheveled. you see how he dresses, how he looks? you talked about biden not being coherent. he is the one not coherent. the careful what you say. that just might come back to you. as far as the economy, like the gentleman said before about one time the interest rates were 18%, 19%.

we went through the great depression and survived that. surviving this state is the main thing. what the economy is talking about today, the main thing is do you still have a country or will you have a dictator? thanks for taking my call. host: all right, charles. quinn in north carolina is next, calling on the independent line. caller: yeah, thanks for having me here. especially from the last case who gave you that trump has no compassion, i think this is outside of the bounds. anybody looking at the country objectively cannot say the last three and a half years biden has been in power that the country is doing good. anybody who has common sense. there is no way you can have 10

or 12 million people crossing the border and no reaction from the administration. now biden is talking about it because trump bring it up. this is an invasion of the country. there is no way. just look. watch on tv. just crossing the border is like this. and what makes it even worse is texas is trying to do something to prevent the invasion, and biden is going against texas. i can't believe it. it looks like we live in two different countries. talking about the economy, i don't know the mortgage interest rate was 4%. right now, it is about 12% to 13% trying to get a house. the economy is not that great.

it is not that good, because you add to it the inflation. everything is expensive. you want to buy bread, you want to buy eggs. i don't believe that we are going the right way. host: appreciate your call this morning. let's go to the republican line now. dog in richmond, texas. caller: when was the last time? when was the last time you saw somebody who has two baskets in the grocery store? if that does not tell you something about the economy, if somebody was in a group and there were 10 people out there, so yeah, this economy is really that bad. host: all right, doug. appreciate your call this morning. catherine.

catherine, plymouth, massachusetts, democratic line. caller: good morning. i wanted to comment on the economy, and i think they keep going about inflation. it is not inflation. it is capitalism. you had oil companies that made $97 billion in a year, more than they made in 40 years the i gas prices. you have cereal companies that made $40 billion in a year because of the high prices of serial -- cereal. it is appalling. i live in massachusetts and visited my son in florida. the cereal i buy up here was three dollars more in florida. the cream i using my coffee was $2.50 more. the yogurt is $2.50 more. it is capitalism. my son said they raised the prices one the snowbirds go down there, but i don't understand why they are blaming

biden, and why don't they look at this? also, these people, a lot of them get their news from fox, which is very distorted i think. i know they said they kept showing a picture of biden like he was shaking hands with a wall, and they clipped that picture. when the riots were going on, they were showing guys burning -- cars burning in spain and saying it was baltimore. the farmers that said the blacks got the payouts to get that is not true. one quarter of the farmers went out of business under trump because of his ineptitude with the economy. ■3more people lived below the poverty line under trump trump 0 years because of his ineptitude with the economy which with the largely homeless population in the history of the united states. most mass shootings in the history of the unitetates, and yet these people believe he's good for the economy, that

crimes of 37%. they just don't know the facts about trump. plus, when he says i'm being prosecuted for you, i know i sure as heck never raped a woman yet his constituents send money after money for him. but the saddest part about everything in my opinion is the fact that nobody brings up a millino dead americans from covid because of his ineptitude. it is absolutely sad and shocking that they think this means that when country. host: we are getting to the end of the hour and we are going to need to take a quick break. we're going to turn our attention to immigration and border security, another top she dominated the presidential campaign. that will be with clarissa

martinez at lori's of the heritage foundation. ed later we will join by lori robertson, managing editor of factcheck.org to discuss how to navigate and calm debt -- combat misinformation needed. ♪ >> when nigel hamilton was a student in great britain, he stayed for a brief time with weston and libby churchill. he also spent hours talking about world war ii after the war, of course. these experiences led to a life

as an author about history. he first moved the u.s. in 1988. he's based in the boston, massachusetts area. books in his career include the bestseller jfk: reckless youth, two volumes on president bill clinton, and a trilogy from fdr about his role as commander-in-chief and world war ii from 1941 to 1945. nigel hamilton is now an american citizen. >> nigel hamilton on this episode of btes plus. but notes is available on the c-span now free mobile app or you are podcasts. this week on the c-span networks, both the house and senate are in session. the house will debate and vote on several immigration-related bills. the senate will consider judicial and executive nominations.

lawmakers will also attempt to override president biden's veto of legislation to block it neural highway administration rule. on tuesday, mike pompeo and former secretary of defense -- testify before the house select committee on the chinese communist already, investigating china's support of u.s. adversaries. and then the house homeland security committee markup of the resolution to impeach ali hundred ms. and on wednesday, ceos of five big companies testify for the senate judiciary committee on their role in combating online child sexual exportation. wednesday, christopher wray and the commander of u.s. cyber command general paul mega sony will testify before the house committee on chinese communist party considering chinese communist threat to america's homeland and national area. watch on cspan networks or cspan now. also, head over to

www.c-span.org for scheduling information. cspan, your unfiltered view of government. if you ever miss any of c-span's coverage, you can find it anytime online at c-span.org. videos feature markers that guide the two interesting and newsworthy highlight these point of interest markers appear on the right-hand side of your screen when you a on select video this makes it easy to quickly get an idea what was debated and decided washington scroll thrgh and snd a few minutes. >> browse our latest collection of c-span products, apparel, oaks, home decor and accessories. there is something for every fan and every purchase helps support

our nonprofit operation. shop now or anytime at c-spanshop.org. host: welcome back to washington journal. we are going to talk about immigration and border security now. i'm joined by clarissa martinez to castro and laura reese of the heritage foundation. good morning to you both. laura, i want to start with you. we know heritage foundation is considered conservative, right-leaning, as a political organization. what is your take on the current discussion in congress on a border security measure. is there a position from heritage on what you would like to see in this measure?

>> this negotiation that is occurring is on top of the white house supplemental that the biden white house is asked. a package of money for ukraine, for israel, for border security, and all those things. and so the negotiation that is happening with respect to immigration is policy changes in addition to the money that the white house is asking for. the house of representatives passed a significant border bill through the border act back in may, which has very good measures in it too end a lot of the asylum fraud and restore border security. at the senate side, they are negotiating parts of those measures in hr two. it doesn't come close to that build a house cast. -- that the house passed. answer the question is, with the policy changes actually secure the order, and wooded then

prevent a future of illegal immigration? unfortunately right now negotiations have been going on behind closed doors, which is a problem, but parts of it have been leaked out or released, and it doesn't sound like a good deal. it doesn't sound like it would actually secure the border. host: so clarissa, you are with -- which is considered more left-leaning. but tell me, what is your take on these discussions? you just heard laura say that house republicans bill is something that heritage has been behind. what are your thoughts on the discussions of what house republicans have been pushing? guest: first of all, thank you for having us today, particularly on this issue. i would say that we has civil society and as voters have every right to be completely

frustrated about the state of our immigration system and about the state of the debate about immigration. for a very long time, the american public has been realigned on what needs to happen we want to see a well-managed and secure border. we want to so have an interest country for many years and remain undocumented, and we want to see a strong, legal immigration system that serves the economy, that serves families and that protects people in danger. and we have the tools to do that. that is where the frustration comes in. instead, what we've seen is that unfortunately, too many members of congress seem more interested in using this as a political system and instead of rolling up their sleeves and tackling the problem. unfortunately, this negotiation which as our colleague

mentioned, seems to be headed to a dead end, it is looking like a really bad game of chicken. and i say that because he said ukraine. that was really the focus of the supplemental. we've been asking the administration to bring to the table is supplemental from immigration because we need more funding to get a handle on what is happening on the border. but by bringing these things together, the thing that was the crux first, which was supporting ukraine, take a stand against putin, that has become secondary, and now the tail is wagging the dog. host: i want to go ahead and get our viewers the numbers to call in, as you can share your thoughts on what is happening at the southern order, your thoughts on immigration policy, or any questions you have for our guests this morning. again, clarissa martinez, and

lori's of heritage foundation. again, democrats, (202) 748-8000 . republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. go ahead and start calling in because we are going to get those calls in just a moment. i see those leading up. we are going to have lots of questions but before we get to that, i want to come back to you because clarissa just mentioned what started out as supplemental funding for ukraine became this bigger conversation on border security, mainly because republicans wanted to couple the issues. does heritage foundation have a position on whether these topics should remain linked, especially as congress, there is no

official text yet, we've heard from ukraine that they are running out of money. what is the position, should they be late or is heritage foundation saying no, go ahead and address whether ukraine should have money and do border security separate? i'm just wondering what the position is. guest: these issues should not be linked. each of them deserve negotiation and debate on their own merits. and it is the white house that sent over the supplemental to congress combining money for ukraine-israel border security and other matters. and so they should be separate. and in terms of the border security negotiations, not only policy matters that have been leaked out from the senate side, not only is that a bad deal because it wouldn't prevent the border issue that we are facing right now and would come in

fact, codify the very tools that biden is using to carry out his open border agenda, but beneath that is the issue of this money. the border security portion, the white house is seeking t $.6 billion for political border security. in fact, much of that would go to non-governmental organization that are carrying out or facilitating the illegal immigration that we're seeing right now, as well as paying sanctuary cities to continue to shelter the illegal population that is here right now. so the senate should be rejecting the money request on its own, let alone the policy measures that they seem to be debating which wouldn't solve the problem. host: all right, we've already gotten calls, select i said, i want to go straight to the phone line as we know that our viewers do have a lot of thoughts and questions about immigration and border security. >> if i could just make a quick comment, i think that one of the

issues with our continued stalemate in tackling this problem is when we throw blanket statement that are inaccurate. i mean, when they agree or not agree with how this administration is handling the situation, we have a lot of issues with it, but to say that biden has an open border policy i think is one of those things that we just say as hot air for political purposes. the reality here, we do agree that we need to modernize our immigration distant, and that deserves to be dealt with in its own right. but it is also important to note that unfortunately, a lot of the tools that we need by something that sadly, republicans who have been part of bringing solutions in the past have simply said no to. that is we're we are seeing right now. the reason we call it a game of chicken is because the president in trying to call republicans

off on this, to show that they actually don't want any of the things they have asked in the past, they want to keep it a political issue, is actually willing to sacrifice tools that have been shown to reduce illegal immigration, like humanitarian parole. when he did that for four countries, illegal entry for arrival from those countries was reduced by 90% that is on the table. it is that kind of looking more at the politics that he solutions that is setting is back there. host: centerpoint, when you say there is an open border, quickly, what does that mean to you? guest: well, it's the numbers. unfortunately month after month, biden is setting new historic records of higher numbers of illegal immigration. just for december, 371,000 inadmissible encounters from customs and border protection. yet another record.

we are talking about over 10.2 million encounters and got aways, people who evaded the border patrol under biden historic records. so we are three years into the sand if the biden administration has not -- have intended to change course, they would have done it by now. they've just grown more deceitful about what they are doing, including using parole as a lawful pathway and trying to have people not look at the numbers between ports of entry. but in fact, the people who are being paroled through ports of entry, they don't have a visa, they are not eligible to be here, and it is an abuse and a violation of the statutes. host: i want you briefly to say why do you disagree when people describe what is happening at the southern border as having an open border. guest: because the reality, i mean you talked about encounters, encounters means

people are doing things. it is not just open border rep are going through. that is not what is happening. the reality is that situations with immigration has changed globally in our hemisphere. so there's more people. that is why we need to modernize our system. the interesting thing is that we started seeing the flow of people increase not under biden alone. those numbers were going up already under the trump administration, and i imagine you don't say he had an open border policy. so we are to limit changi factors and we need the tools to address those. the reality is that under trump, there was very little dent made on illegal immigration. what you believe reduced by 60% was legal immigration. in one of the things we believe is you have

functioning, legal immigration channels, people use them. that has been shown. host: now to the phone lines. that started fred in multi-, illinois. democratic line, what is your question or comment? caller: do you think we should go back to the way trump did it, which was incarcerated parents and put the kids into dog cages as they operate at 750 per child? host: i think that is a question for laura, basically mentioned family separation, trump policy at the border. what are your thoughts about some of the criticisms of immigration policy during the trump direct? guest: so if families -- true families, not fraudulent families, are coming to the u.s. illegally, they should be kept together. and we have to address and look at the issue right now with

historic levels of public company children that are crossing under the biden administration. over 400 40,000 unaccompanied alien children during this administration. these are people whose parents have chosen or directed that their children cross that border by themselves. unaccompanied, with smugglers, traffickers. endangering the children. that is the current issue that we should be dealing with, and dissuading the exploitation of those children, many of whom and up in sex trafficking situations or child labor violations once they get into the u.s. host: all right, let's take another caller. richard in rural hall north carolina, republican line. caller: i have about three questions, if you don't mind. host: we will try, but still one by one.

caller: first question, i see what is going on at the border, i've lived in louisiana. a lot of the people across this border are military. how come they are not fighting for their country if they are from tyranny? host: do you want to go ahead and ask your second question? caller: well, i would like to hear the answer to the first question. host: let's hold on. i will let you into that, clarissa. i think what he is saying our people are seeking asylum so why don't they stay in their home country and fight against whatever regime they say is oppressive? t: i think history has shown us that people do both. some people stay and fight. we saw that during world war ii. some people stay in their countries and fought, and some people had to leave. the reality is that the result

of those experiences is what shape the asylum system to protect people in danger. so we as a country, we are certainly in our own right to demand that our government to at least three things. one, to have a well-managed, secure border. second, to strengthen our legal immigration channels. we have a system that supports american workforce and protect people in danger. we need those channels, because some people may stay inside of an unfair regime in their areas just like we would as americans that we were threatened by another country, but some people may have to leave. or they may be facing a regime that is very strong twitch they cannot take a stand against. on our end, what we need is a functioning asylum system that is fast and fair, or people who are in danger have a fair shot

at making that claim. host: richard, i will give you one more follow-up. caller: so in other words, the reason why they are leaving because they don't have guts. they can't fight for themselves. and yet the democratic party is trying to take our guns. what they are doing if they are living in the soldiers because they can't invade our shores. biden has now opened the borders and letting in their soldiers. guest: you know, here is something i would say going back to some of the factors that are affecting how we solve this problem, is that there's a lot of conspiracy theories out there , and one of what the caller is citing is this thing that has been circulating about invasion and replacement theory. the thing about that is that first of all, we have a right to be concerned and demand that we get a handle on the border.

but when we start overlaying conspiracy theories that as we know, have to use for years in the past with deadly consequences, that is very troublesome. and i'm not talking intellectually here. the fact that you have politicians now making that kind of invasion and replacement theory which is a white supremacist point for many, many years back, it has a death toll. while we have not yet, and if we get our act together, that will continue to be the case, while we have not seen yet a terrorist coming from the southern border that has killed american, we have seen people in our country motivated by this kind of conspiracy theory to kill fellow americans. that was what happened with the person from waco under the guise of killing hispanics, the person who killed african-americans, or the person who into pittsburgh

to kill american jewish. as -- that has a real death toll. we need to demand that our elected officials refrain from lynn those claims, because those claims are killing americans. host: flora, i want to give you a chance to respond because they might not be some of the conspiracy theories that clarissa mentioned, but you do hear a lot of republican lawmakers so that they are concerned that criminals are crossing into the water, that drugs are crossing into the border, and they do find maybe anecdotally that someone who may be can have a visa or had come over illegally was accused of a crime or found guilty of a crime. i'm assuming that is something you save as a concerned about. guest:concerned glitch for popu, and that is estimated to be over one point -- 1.7 million people.

just again 50 watchlist hits by border patrol so far in the first three months of fiscal year 2024, yet another record. so it is naive to ignore these -- the got aways, the few and get record levels at the border patrol is encountering and just dismiss it, particularly after october 7 and the threat from our adversaries and terrorist organizations that they would like to you acts like october 7 in the u.s. and around the world. the fbi director christopher wray is very concerned with the threat situation right now. he said that lights are blinking red. we need to take that seriously and not just dismiss it and say that hasn't happened or, therefore it is not going to

happen now, and try to rectify flaming domestic terrorism or white supremacy or extremism. that is simply not the real threat that america is facing right now. guest: this is not either or. this is not burying your head in the sand and hoping that nothing happens. burying our head in the sand on the issue of immigration, we are demanding that actually, members of both parties come to the table and provides and serious solutions. so it is not either/or, and i don't think it is correct to misstate what i said. i'm not saying that it's one of the other. i'm simply saying that we need to mind how conspiracy theories are being used, not only to prevent progress of the issue of immigration, which we want and need to see fixed, but also

having consequences on the lives of americans in a very real way. host: let's go back to the phone lines now. as a reminder, democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. we are going to go to the independent right now. byron wilson, north carolina. caller: yes, good morning, and i have a few ways to make. number one, trump employed over 100 illegals, and these people, some of them were over 20 years -- for him -- works for him over 20 years. we have destabilized the border, especially venezuela.

providing clues and putting certain people in power. and when you destabilize these governments like this, you're going to have this problem. we i south of the border. we could find hundreds of billions of dollars to give to israel and ukraine and everything. this is of our own if they were having -- even the mexican government said if you help us stop putting all these illegal guns down here for the drug cartels, and we could probably help you on the immigration. so these are problems that we created. and then as far as the heritage foundation, these guys promote

more conspiracy theories and promote putin's stuff and they have been doing it, that is who puts infiltrated. i thought you all were getting better. you will use to have him up there every two weeks to brainwash the american people. >> i appreciate your calls and you've raised a lot of points, but i want to give laura some time to respond to his concerned about the heritage foundation, but i also want you to respond to the points he raised about whether the u.s., by not engaging in helping u.s. policy is perhaps hurting some of those countries that we now see people fleeing. guest: the u.s. has been giving billions of dollars to these countries for decades in the form of international aid. vice president harris has, in

her border role, talked about it and continued to give considerable money to these countries and it is not solving the problem. but we also have to place responsibility on the countries themselves and not ignore that. the damage that that does to these citizens. the u.s. cbeacon in the world, e greatest country on the planet, and of course people want to continue to come here. but as a sovereign nation, we have a right to have a lawful and orderly immigration system each year, and that means that not everyone can come in and choose where they are going to go and when and how. we have a right to control the

border, and to encourage people's use of air system, but as long as it is easier and faster to come illegally, which is right now, that is the process capable choose. host: let's take another caller. susan is calling from westchester, new york on the democratic line. caller: good morning to you. laura, my comment is mostly directed toward you and white honestly, to all the republican callers who have been calling and complaining about the border issue for the past three years. it seems to me outrageous, and i support immigration reform, i think when you do certain poles, you find that a majority of people do, it is either number one or number two issue in this country, especially republicans, and here is an opportunity where the senate is trying to

negotiate and compromise, a word that doesn't seem just anymore in the republican congress. they are trying to come up with a compromised. all the details aren't available yet and mike johnson and his republicans in the house are rejecting it out of hand. because they are sycophants to trump. and it is more important that they don't let biden have his win then to do what is right for this country. when is it going to be country over party? and i asked all republican callers, call your representatives and tell them to not reject this out of hand if you want immigration control at last. thank you. guest: so the test needs to be is the compromise going to

actually solve the problem? this has nothing to do with biden and nothing to do with trump given the border crisis that we are facing right now the tools that are being used to accomplish that, those tools need to be taken away. and so the detail that have emerged with this negotiation includes faster work authorization for people who are coming here illegally. it is against the law for someone who is not authorized to work here, and so you -- if you are going to give faster work permit which is a part of the negotiation right now, you are than enticing more illegal immigration and you are not changing behavior for people to come here lawfully. if you're going to allow a daily number of illegal aliens, including up to 8500 per day before allowing border patrol agent's to expel people back across the border, then you are codifying crisis levels of

illegal immigration. the secretary of homeland security under president obama said 1000 illegal aliens per date was a bad day. why on earth would be agree to 5000 a day or 8500 a day? the terms that are being negotiated are bad. it is a bad deal, and we should not be saying yes to a deal just to strike a deal. we should be actually solving the problem. guest: here's the thing. interestingly enough, i agree on a number of things. we agreed that we as a country have a responsibility to have a secure border. also, that we should have functioning, legal immigration channels, which has proven to be the most effective way to decrease illegal immigration. sadly, the devil is in the details, right? and unfortunately, like yours and many members of congress

oppose those legal immigration channels, including some of the tools that are currently in asia right now. we also often try to aggravate a number of big to try to win a point. the people who were getting work permits, let's look at how this works. first ivanka, they gotaways that laura has talked about, that number has remained fairly constant since the previous administration to this one. the people that the administration is saying would be work permits are folks who have had a meeting with an immigration official, and they are put in proceedings where they have to show up. in the meantime, the cities where these folks are going are saying hey, these folks could be working and supporting themselves. that is what the administration

is trying to do is to say ok, they are waiting for that, let's get them. but these are not the people who are gotaways or disappear off the face of the earth. there is a significant percentage being turned away at the border and it is not coming in at all. host: i want to ask about it, because we've been talking about what is being negotiated in congress. we know there is no deal yet, but on friday, president biden basically put out a statement that said if they are able to negotiate something that gives them authority to shut down the border, if the amount of people who show up reaches a certain threshold, he would sign it. ed i'm going to show an article again. the headline says biden says he will shutdown the border if he is given authority. i want to scroll down to a portion of this article where it

talks about the contours of the deal, and i'm going to read it. it says the contours of the deal are still subject to negotiation, but the negotiators have long discussed setting treasures for daily border crossings, after which the biden administration could shut down the border between ports of entry. under the current proposal, asylum-seekers would still be asked to make claims that authorized eventually, although they would face a much higher standard ofranted the opportunity to apply for asylum. republican to support a deal say the authority to both force biden's hand and strengthen that of his potential successor. i want to ask you both, deal, ds sound like something you can

support? guest: know, because again, and except a very high level of daily illegal immigration entry. it is not a number that border agents can manage. if jeh johnson saying 1000 per day is a bad earth would be agree to 5000 a day or 8500 a day? that is crisis level for the border patrol agent. we should not be even discussing it, let alone putting that into codifying that. in terms of cruel, this is a go to tools of the biden administration is using. the obama administration used it well. it is intended to be rarely used, or someone who doesn't have time to get a visa. urgent need. emergency surgery or someone who is about to testify in a criminal case, they don't have time to get a visa. it is typically rarely used, and

that is how congress intended one reason we know that is congress did not authorize work permits for parolees. and yet this is ministration is handing out parole at a mass scale. tens of thousands for four nationalities and other groups as well, and giving them work permits. these are full for had time to apply for a visa, and this administration is violating that part of the statute. host: so we talked about the contours of the deal. is this something that you think is worth doing, because we furthered some progressive groups thanks the deal might be too far when it comes to allowing illegal immigration. what i grew thoughts on the contours of the deal? guest: we somewhat agree again, but for different reasons. first of all, as you said, the actual language hasn't emerged, so we can't take full judgment until that happens. but one of our concerns is that

this is supposed to be that ukraine and about standing up to putin. and now this side conversation has become dominant, but because it wasn't a side conversation, we are not looking at how we modernize the immigration system to be effective. this is like a three legged stool. the border is the immediate concern but in order to look at the border, we need to look at the other piece of the system. for us, one of the concerns is it has proven time and time again, when we have functioning legal channels, people use them. this proposal unfortunately seeks to reduce the few door that remain open for people and doesn't have any of the legal immigration provisions that frankly, the vast majority of americans support and that lead to legality.

so that is one of our main concerns. the other thing, yes. first of all, parole, not just obama, not just biden. it has been used by administrations from both parties. the thing is that yes, the numbers of immigrants around the world are increasing. the movement of people for a lot of different reasons. so it is important to use the tools we have to respond to that situation and come up with new ones. and that is one of our concerns about this deal, is that it is looking at one piece of the puzzle and giving up some of the tools to increase legal channels, which is what we should be doing, encouraging people to come with the sow's than smugglers. host: we are going to go back to the phone lines. as a reminder, if you are a democrat who has a question or

comment about immigration policy or the border security at the southern border, democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. let's hear from marcy now. marcy is in massachusetts on the independent line. what is your question or comment? >> night comment is if the border was so secure right now, why did the supreme court order governor abbott to take the razor wire? ■othat is not fair. host: and what else? caller: yes? host: did you have any other point? caller: yes. and i'm not going to live.

when it comes to my haskell reunion, all my friends are already dying. i just had about 60 school classmates that pass away from fentanyl, heroin. this is ridiculous, honestly. i'm not going to lie, i governor, who is a democrat is even complaining about the crisis. nobody is talking about us fixed income people. the only one i see talk about it is trump, that's it. i had to put up surveillance cameras. i let my dog loose when i'm not here because my father-in-law is 78 years old. i'm scared he's going to get injured. people but i've never seen before walking around my house now.

post: we appreciate your call. laura, anything you want to say to respond? guest: with regards to the case, the supreme court order that just came out this week was very short and it basically said returned the decision to the lower courts on the merit that it said that texas can continue to put up wire but also the federal government is not enjoying -- in joint from removing the wire. guest: there is a standoff with the supreme court's of the federal government can remove the wire, but nothing has been done yet. host: the biden administration has ordered texas to give them access again to that area, which is city property and private property. it's not federal property.

that didn't occur. the biden administration has not acted on that yet. host: i want to go back to the caller in charlotte, north carolina and she is a latino voter. andrea, go ahead and share your thoughts today. caller: thanks so much for taking my call. i have a question. donald trump said that the immigrants arriving from asia, america, from africa, they are poisoning the blood of this beautiful country. it makes me wonder, when he goes back to the white house, what

ddress this problem of seeing so many people who are not white coming to our country? and second, i need to let you guys know that earlier, your guest said that the families that were separated at the border were not real families. i work as an interpreter -- i'm sorry, this is disgustthis is r. i don't know why people want to dehumanize others this way, but i don't think they should be allowed. i mean, if they want to talk this way, they can talk this way , but why would you go on tv and say something so racist? anyway, and a practical way,

what kind of measures do you think donald trump would do if he were to go back to the white house not to allow brown people to keep poisoning the blood of our country? thanks so much for taking my call. host: go ahead, laura. guest: so during the biden administration there have been foreigners coming from over 175 countries read we are talking about at least 80% of the globe. which race would that be? it doesn't matter what countries they're coming from. we cannot sustain the numbers that have been led into the u.s. just in the past three years. guest: do you think they are poisoning the blood of america? guest: no, i'm not going to get into trump's characterizations. but the reality is we as a nation, cities and communities can absorb the number of people that are coming in.

so say new yorkers, so say chicagoans. we simply cannot sustain this in terms of cost. the public education, the housing, hospitalizations, etc. so that is what we are dealing with and that is where we need to get some control over securing the border and enforcing immigration laws. guest: andet you have people getting work permits so that they can get their own housing and lessen the pressure on the cities. on the texas thing, with all due respect to governor abbott, this is not a new thing. this is the latest of a series of things where he's very intent, more intent on using immigration for political stunts than to solve a policy issue for texans. i mean, how crazy is it that people are demanding that we

have border patrol on the border and the governor is actually taking measures to prevent horticultural? -- border patrol? we have always been a country whose dna has immigrant dna. going back to the beginning of the nation. we also need a modern immigration system that continues to honor that legacy, not just because of who we were, but because of who we are. nobody can deny that immigrants are integral part of the american economic engine. as a matter of fact, right now one of the reasons there is increased immigration is because our economy is doing well. it is strong. there is low unemployment and we are seeing worker shortages. so rather than political stunts of dropping immigrants this city

or another blue city to try to score political points, frankly, there are states like utah, indiana who are saying send immigrants here, we. we understand that, but we want a system that makes sure that yes, people are doing better in those who go work in different places complement the american workforce. and by the about the previous call is flagged something that our country is dealing with, and that is the opioid epidemic. in one of the things we are seeing is that the majority of drugs coming in through the southern border are coming from went eventually. we have invested in the technology needed to do scans, x-rays of trucks which is how a lot of those drugs are coming in, and we need to do more of that. that is part of cutting off the

supply. we also need to address the demand in this country but i agree that we need to deal with that based on where the problem is, and that is investing in our ports of entry. host: let's go back to phone lines. david in sacramento, california, republican line. caller: i just want to bring up, what happened to due process of law and the allegiance to the country? quit pretending you are jesus and you are going to need everybody with red and fish -- bread and fish. host: do you want to respond to that? guest: we have to process. my organization is not allowing many others to shore up the assignment -- asylum system.

that is what we want to see from our due process. so i agree, we want the resources to make sure that there are adjudicators and staff to be able to move people through that process. in a way that we are figuring out the people who are indeed in danger and we can give them if have to be out of danger. host: so again, the phone lines. democrats, (202) 748-8001. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. if you're a latino voter, you do have a dedicated line, you can call us at (202) 748-8003. next up is someone who called on that latino voter line. jonathan is in long beach, new york. caller: good morning, everybody. i'd like to discuss a few things here quickly with you.

so we have 8 million plus illegal immigration invaders in the last three .5 years due to democratic policies in america. we have some weird kind of sense that the democrats are going to allow all these people in so they can vote democrat, which is weird to me because most spanish people like myself believe in god. we believe in heaven. we don't believe in this woke-ism, we don't believe in free rides, we don't believe in this lack of due process that has been happening in this country for the past years. and i'm not blaming any party or anything, i'm just saying that listen, america is broke. your $34 trillion in debt. we are throwing children who are going to school into streets so

that homeless immigrants can go and grab some sleep in a warm place to live. this was not well-thought out. none of it. this was a travesty. host:host: laura, you want to respond? guest: i agree, we simply can't afford this and this isn't how a sovereign nation should be functioning. i want to also address something that was stated earlier about a political stunt of sending people to blue cities. the biden administration has been allowing the majority of the encounters to come in. secretary mayorkas admitted to agents a couple weeks ago that they are allowing in, releasing ■8over 85% of those encounters. they have been doing it for the past three years, often under the dark of night, and so they

don't really want americans focusing on this. but the net result is indeed that the vast majority of those were coming here illegally are being allowed into the u.s. texas, of course, due to geography, faces the front line of this, and texans don't want to be subject to these very large numbers of people that they cannot absorb into their communities. and so other states are feeling it as well. other states have become border states not just because of the number of people, but also the fentanyl that is coming to every community and killing far too many americans. host: next caller is dylan in vermont, independent line. go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. i just wanted to say

immigrants coming here from the beginning. they said the irish were going to destroy the country, they didn't want to live any jewish people in, the chinese, they had to pass laws to stop chinese people. it was just racism. it is racism every time. the fentanyl is being driven across the border by americans. it is not coming across on foot. they are just saying that to justify evil treatment of refugees, really. if you don't like a border crisis, i'd say don't overthrow every democracy in south america. thank you. guest: you know, dylan makes a good point. again, going back to the fentanyl, part of the rhetoric we are hearing, and again, this is about adding hot air to what is already an issue that we can

fix, but to try to derail those solutions as dylan mentioned, there is a sense that is trying to be put out there that to the border are the ones bringing in the drugs. those drugs are coming mainly through points of entry and mainly on vehicle driven by american that is in that doesn't make it right or wrong, it just means that we need a strategy that deals with that as opposed to try to obfuscate this thing like it is these families of these individuals. we need that kind of intervention. we need that kind of smart enforcement. at the end of the day, one thing is true. we need change. what is happening is unsustainable. the majority of americans, including us, we support decisive action to establish a

well-managed and secure border. but again, to say that we can simply do that by closing off legal immigration channels which is unfortunately a lot of what happened on the devious administration and a lot of what --ive. what keeps attracting people to this country is that we continue to be the best country in the world, that there are economic opportunities. i don't want to crash the economy to try to stop people from coming in. a more effective solution is to make sure that the legal channels work and they are able to get here legally. that is what we need to demand from our elected leaders. guest: can i address the fentanyl at ports of entry? when we are talking about 1.7 at least who are coming in and also there are plenty of cameras set up across the southern border,

that take pictures of people crossing between the ports day and night, dressed head to towing camouflage, military-aged men with very large backpacks, the drugs are coming in between the ports of entry. i don't understand why this constant argument of the drugs are only coming through it eventually. they are through both. and the net result is the fentanyl and the other drugs are getting in coming historic numbers of americans. secure the border. the drugs will decrease. american lives will be saved. that is what americans want. host: jean-pierre in newport, florida. he told us that he is a puerto rican caller. quickly, your final point. caller: thank you. i just wanted to point out that in order to have a border, you have to be in control of the border. biden has given up control

because he's not obeying the law eight doing as he is supposed to. host: all right. laura, just quickly, is hr to the only thing heritage foundation supports or is there some type of compromise possible on border security measures? guest: hr two should be the floor, not the ceiling. it would, in fact, secure the border. it would prevent future illegal immigration. it cuts down on the asylum fraud which no one should prefer. it cuts down on the catch and release. unauthorized work by requiring a verify or any other may researchers --or any other measures. it should be passed in the senate. host: what needs to be done to secure the border? guest: i think we need to fund

properly the tools that we need so we can have a fast and fair asylum process, so that folks that actually need asylum can get through that quickly and folks who do not need it can be denied. but, we need that to work with other functioning doors because we know that when there are legal channels that work, people come in with visas rather than smugglers. unfortunately, the current deal does not have that. simply, proposals that shut down every single door people may stand in line for to do things illegally, shutting those doors will not secure the border. host: we are going to have to leave it there. we have clarissa martinez de castro and lora reis. thank you both for joining us this morning. we are going to take a quick break. in 20 minutes, we are joined by lori robertson to discuss how to

navigate and combat misinformation this election season. first, it is open forum. your chance to weigh in on any puic policy issue on your mind this morning. start calling in. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. we will get to your calls in just a moment. ♪ ♪ >> tonight on c-span q and i, retired u.s. senate historian eddie: shares from her book, a collection of brief chronicles of senate history she presented

to senators during her tuesday caucus lunches between 2009 and 2023. >> they had to be succinct, to the point because you only had five minutes to tell the story. they had to tell a complete story. it was an interesting task and a good challenge and probably one of the best learning experiences i had through the years as senate historian. the years went by, they collected up and senators kept asking me to produce a book as they wanted to share the stories with other people. >> betty cohen with her book, tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span's q and a. you can listen to q and a and our podcasts on our free c-span now app. ♪ ♪ >> for c-span's voices 2024, we are asking voters across the country, what issue is most important to you in this

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a variety of compelling podcasts. c-span now is available at the apple store and google play. scan the qr code to download it for free today or visit c-span.org/c-span now. c-span now, your front row seat to washington anytime, anywhere. ♪ >> this week on the c-span networks, both the house and senate are in session. the house will beat and vote on several immigration-related bills, including legislation denying entry to anyone involved in the october 7 attack on israel. the senate will consider executive nominations. lawmakers will attempt to override president biden's veto of legislations to block a federal highway administration rule waiting for electric vehicle chargers. on tuesday, former secretary of state mike pompeo and former secretary ofefense testify before the house select many on the chinese communist party.

the house homeland security committee -- wedsday, ceos of five big techompanies testify before the senate used dairy committee on their role in combating online child sexual exploitation. wednesday, fbi director christopher ray and the commander of u.s. cyber command general paul mag stony will testify on the chinese communist party's concerning the chinese cyber threat to america's homeland national security. watch this week live on the c-span networks or on sp now, our free mobile video app. head over to c-span.org for scheduling information or to watch live or on demand any time, your unfiltered view of government. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back to open forum, your chance to weigh in

on any political topic or news of the day. democrats, call us at (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents (202) 748-8002. first up is derek in monroe, north carolina on the democratic line. go ahead. caller: hello, how are you? i just have some bullet points of some things. one, corporations go on tv saying about, you need immigration, but they higher so many illegals and they do not pay them sick time, vacation time. they just give them straight pay, but it is ok when they are not on tv. also, helping out neighboring countries. latin america, like if russia or china tried to get in them countries we would be in arms.

yet, still, instead of invest on the front in, we would rather spend on a like this chaotically, which is crazy. all of these years, all of these administrations never want to do anything, just like you do not have a health care plan after 12 years of talking about having one. also, we have an asian hate crime bill that did not take law. i do not understand why we do not have a black hate crime bill. also, with crack. we labeled the people, addicts and crime and got all this jail time where you cannot have a life after. with opioids, you say they need help and they sick. host: all right, derek. we will stop you there. let's move to the republican mine. sal in new jersey.

caller: hello, how are you doing today? i want to say one thing about emigration. i think what we have to do is, we have to have merit-based immigration where people come to this country, regardless where they come from, whether africa, europe, asia, when you come to this country, you come to this country, you learn english. you assimilate, you become american. many of this people -- these people coming to america nowadays are not assimilating. instead of becoming american, they want to make this country like the country where they came from. like, my parents came from italy. when they came to this country, they never intended to make this country like the country that they came from. they became american. we have to encourage these immigrants when they come to this country to learn english and become american and make his country a more unified, better country. host: all right, sal.

next up, we have leanneindepend. caller: yes, ma'am. my father came over here in 1925. ok? he was an immigrant from italy. i'm going to tell you something, and this is the honest to god's truth. my father is deceased now. but, he told me when immigrants came from the boat to the united states, they spit on them. the people in the united states -- we do not want italians. we do not want jews. we do not want anybody. we want your, white people. my father was white. i am sorry. donald trump, i am telling you the truth, is causing the same thing again. make america great again. do you know what that actually means?

that means, he wants it the way it used to be. donald trump's father was not a good person. he had big apartment buildings in coney island. you can't have any blacks, can't have any this comic-con have any of that. the you know who made the united states of america? immigrants. because, before anybody was ever here, there was indians here. oh -- they take a couple of blankets, a couple of this. pilgrims came over here. this is ridiculous. just do it in a kind way, take your time, let these people come in. check them out. but, do not discriminate. it is so wrong. host: all right, leanne. appreciate your call. we had a previous caller mentioned the anti-asian hate mill. we should mention that hate

crime laws on the books still apply to people of other races, there also is a law that president biden signed that made lynching a federal hate crime. that was signed into law last year. we are going to go to the phone lines. christopher is on the democratic line calling from christian stead, virgin islands. caller: yeah, good morning. host: christian said, virginia. caller: hello? host: go ahead. caller: good morning. it is virgin islands. all right, go ahead, christopher. i am calling on the issue with the opioids. united states people, they have

a lot of drugs. [indiscernib]that is all i haven that. thank you. host: thank you, christopher. jorge, pennsylvania, republican mine. caller: hi. host: how are you doing? caller: fine, how are you doing? my question is, with the [indiscernible] of the united states in venezuela. when you win the election, you get about 2 million [indiscernible] host: you are going in and out. it is kind of hard to follow. i think we lost jorge, a little bit bad reception.

we are going to move on to the independent line. dave is in st. petersburg, florida. caller: good morning. talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. boy, we all love to talk, don't wait? both democrats and republicans are leading us to slaughter and we all know it. so, it is time for all of us to band together in the middle and takeioi am going to prescribe an action plan for all of the talkers that hate trump to take. super tuesday is on march 5. ok? there is still time. if the democrats and independents that do not want trump will register as republicans for the primaries, they can vote for nikki haley and prevent donald trump from winning the nomination. it is easy. you do not have to do anything.

it takes five minutes on york county website to change your registration. you can affect real change. it is the most important thing we as american patriots can do at this juncture. thank you. host: all right, dave. we are going to go to the democratic line now. kevin is an washington, d.c. caller: there is an article by nicholas wade called the story of the decades he was a editor at the new york times from 1990 to 1996. it is about the covid origin. i think he said, a couple of speaking about it. it says the proposal was authored by peter dusek. there were copies of the budget. the co-author of the -- search

for the origin of covid-19. is co-author argues -- [indiscernible] the u.s. writes, he was -- host: kevin, appreciate your call this morning. we are going to go to gene, calling in brinkley, arkansas on the republican line. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: how are you? first, i would like to give kudos to the gentleman who called, spoke about talk, talk, talk, talk. he is absolutely correct. all people are doing is talking, talking, talking with millions, different points of views. the bottom line is, if we do not lock up the border, 18 million illegals who are in here now,

they are going to destroy this country. you want to know how? read the robert clements strategy. what you should be reading is the constitution. in order for us to have a secure and sovereign nation, we need to secure the borders. we need to have a military to keep the foreign peopl want to destroy us at bay. this is not rocket science. what you people are doing, you people listening to me, get off your high horses and remember we are all brothers and sisters. yes, i am a native american. i am an apache. i am 80 years old and i am watching this theater play out over again that my ancestors went through. sitting bull once said, the white man that came to the country, they are doing to us what they did to those before us. you people, all of us, are being put on a reservation. if you have never lived on a

rez, you are getting a taste of it now. host: all right, let's hear from chuck in lewis, delaware, independent line. caller: thank you, yes. immigration is a complicated issue. it bothers me. nobody ever explains or goes into the details. why are we being flooded? what is the problem? what is the history in the country that they are coming from? what do we need to do to assimilate people? how many people need to fill jobs not being filled? historically, immigration has always been an issue to scapegoat. unfortunately, it is mostly bigoted roots. we need immigrants. that is why america is great. make america great is to bring people in with smart ideas. that is why we are the greatest nation in the world as far as innovation and technology. i don't understand why were

people do not explain how to fix it, rather than this partisan stuff going on. thanks. host: all right, we are going to take one more caller. kathleen on the democratic line in iowa. go ahead, kathleen. caller: hi, thank you for taking my call. i just wanted to talk a bit about my frustration with congress in general. i think we need term limits to ensure that these folks are focused on their job and not themselves. i do not think the founders of the constitution ever intended for congress to be a career. it was supposed to be a service position where people could be elected to serve their fellow citizens. i think that seems to have lost on our current members of congress, who make it an entire lifetime career. also, those folks do not have

the same benefits that normal people do. i think they get out of touch with what people want. as far as immigration, i am really concerned that we, it has become an issue that even just this week, the republicans could have made a deal with the biden, but they do not want him to have the credit for it. they are getting what they want, but now they are saying, ok, we need a hold because we do not want somebody else to get credit that might come from this. i think the level of hypocrisy, not just on the republicans, but on both sides, of people who want credit, who want to punt the ball down the line and not solve problems until they need -- meet a certain criteria goes back to that whole, wenting it to be a career and wanting it to be about them instead of the citizens about the united states. one other point, an earlier

caller did talk about immigrants eating to assimilates to the united states -- needing to assimilate to the united states. he talked about how his parents came and did not want to make the united states into another italy. i would say, take a look around you. and lots of big cities, there is a little italy. there is a chinatown. there is an area that has irish restaurants. we have assimilated other cultures into hours and that is what makursaying things like the cuff is wrong. host: all right, we will leave it there. a ick programming note. today, 2024 republican presidential candidate nki haley will speak to voters at a rally in conway, south carolina.

watch live at 5:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span now, our free, mobile video app or online at c-span.org. that is 5:00 eastern time. we are going to take a quick break. when we come back, lori robertson of fact-check.org will join us. she will discuss how to navigate and combat misinformation this election season. ♪ ♪ >> weekends bring you book tv feurg leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. former aide to president obama with her book, first jen, a memoir, talks about the trade-offs she faced as a first generation latina striving for the ameran dream. on afterwards, journalist dond mcneil with his book to talk about what he has learned from

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politics. ♪ ♪ >> the c-span book show podcast feed makes it easy for you to listen to all of c-span's podcasts that feature nonfiction books in one place so you can discover new authors and ideas. each week, we are making it convenient for you to listen to multiple episodes with critically acclaimed authors discussing history, biographies, current events and culture from our signature programs about books, afterwards, book notes plus and q and a. listen to c-span's bookshelf podcast feed today. you can find the feed and all of our podcasts on the free, c-span now mobile videopp or wherever you get your podcasts and on our website, c-span.org/podcasts. ♪ ♪ >> a healthy democracy does not just look like this. it looks like this, where americans can see democracy at work, when citizens are truly informed, a republic thrives.

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host: good morning, welcome back to "washington journal." we are joined now by lori robertson, the managing editor of fact-check.org. good morning. guest: good morning. host: tell us, that check just celebrated 20 years. tell us about your mission and how you are funded. guest: yes, fact-check was founded in 2003 by the annenrg public policy center at the university of pennsylvania. our mission is to reduce the level of deception and confusion in u.s. politics. we do that by evaluating the factual accuracy of what politicians and political actors say. since our founding, we have expanded into misinformation on social media. we have a project called seida check that fact-checks

distortion of science. this can come from politicians or things on social media. funding, primarily grant money. first and foremost, the annenberg foundation. we also get money from facebook to work with facebook in debunking social media misinformation. we take individual donations. we published quarterly financial reports on our website so all the information is there. we publish the names of anybody who gives us more than $1000 and we don't take money from unions or partisan or advocacy groups. host: what is the process for fact checking a claim? i think a lot of people would be curious, how do you determine what claim to fact check? guest: we review transcripts of interviews, speeches, debates. we look at tv ads during elections and flag statements of fact. we are not looking for opinions.

we are looking for something factual, a lot of times those are figures or somebody saying something is a record, or the most or the worst, superlatives are always a q, let's look at that. then, we will do a little bit of research. we will contact the person or group who made the claim and ask them for support. we do not write about true claims. we are looking for things that are false and misleading. in terms of prioritizing, the more false, the more egregious it is, the more likely we are to write about it. also, looking for things that are politically relevant. if it is a topic that is in a current political debate or current piece of legislation, that is something we are more apt to write about. host: we are talking, lori robertson of fact-check.org. i want to give you the phone

lines to call in, whether you want to ask a question in general about the fact checking industry or you want to talk about specific claims made by a politician or that you have seen on social media for us to discuss. democrats, call us at (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. we are going to get to your calls in just a moment. lori, i wanted to ask you, as you get into specific things to fact check, you mentioned a lot of times, superlatives are what peak your interest. we know that recently, biden said that the federal deficit has the "largest one-year drop in american history."

the hill wrote an article about that. i think there was some posts on social media that go about looking into those claims that the -- how do you guys determine, when he claimed -- he was talking about the federal budget deficit saying it fell, how do you determine what makes that a true statement? what would you do to figure out if those posts by the president or white house are even accurate? guest: for something like that with the deficit, we can look at the congressional budget office or the office of management budget to look at the official deficit figures. that deficit claim from biden has been something we have written about a lot. he has been boasting that the deficit went down by more than $1 trillion over but we said ts

misleading because the primary reason that happened is because of expiring pandemic spending. host: let's talk about former president trump. we know he has given fact checkers a lot to look at, both when he was president, now that he is running again for president. i want to read a quote from a recent town hall earlier this month. in iowa. trump. he says, were doing better than a hasver done for two and a half years. then,ovidame along. we were getting ready to start selling oil to asia, to europe. we were going to pay down our debt where we were at that time at $29 trilln. now, we are $36 trillion. but,e were going to start payi down our own debt. we were going to do things that nobody could believe.

a lot of times when he speaks, there is so much to unpack. how do you guys approach, in general, fact checking former president trump? how would you fact-check something like the statement from iowa? guest: sometimes, there are a lot of claims. i guess part of it is, we are looking for what is the primary point that is trying to -- that is being made? also, what can we fact-check? sometimes, there are things that it is not possible for us to look into. it is a hearsay kind of thing, like somebody said something and we are not able to fact check a private conversation. that particular claim, we looked at whether or not the u.s. was before covid about to pay down our debt by selling u.s. energy. talked to budget experts about that. one of them said that claim was

baffling. we were not about to start paying down our debt by selling oil to other countries. oil is sold by private companies. there is tax revenue involved there, but budget experts told us it would have been a trivial amount compared to trillions of dollars in debt. host: we are going to go to the phone lines. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. with your question or comment for lori robertson of fact-check.org. let's start with rock in missouri, democratic line. caller: hello, i have a couple of questions. i saw former budget director david stockman on c-span yesterday. he was throwing out some figures on the economy under donald

trump versus joe biden and such. i was wanting to know, what is the accurate measurements via fact-check on gdp under trump, jobs created, and the real facts of it? it seems to be a bit of inconsistency. trumpers say the economy was so great under trump. the democrats say it is better under joe biden, which i believe it is. i just wanted clarification on that. thanks for c-span. guest: sure. well, one resource from our website that would be helpful here, we do these quarterly reports called biden's numbers. we did them under trump called trump's numbers. we are not fact checking a particular claim. we are stating statistical measures of what happened in the

country under their presidencies. in those reports, we look at employment. if you want to check employment numbers were self, go to the bureau of labor statistics. we look at the economy such as gdp growth, gdp numbers come from the bureau of economic analysis. i would encourage you to check out our latest biden's numbers in that we are often making comparisons to, how do these statistical measures under biden so far in his presidency compare with the same point of the trump presidency? host: i will read since you mentioned it some of the bullet points from the january 2024 update on biden's numbers. here are a couple of the bullet points. it says the economy added or than 14 million jobs, that number is now nearly 4.9 million higher than before the pandemic. it says the on deployment rate dropped back to just above the

pre-pandemic low. unfilled job openings again outnumber unemployed job seekers. it says inflation spiked to the highest level in over 40 years, despite recent moderations, consumer prices are up nearly 18% overall during biden's time. gasoline is up 29%. those are some bullet points from fact-check.org. looking at numbers under president joe biden. greg is calling on the republican line from indiana. caller: yes. host: go ahead. caller: my question to your guest is, she said that --

checked out the facts about president trump. but, who fact checked the people she is answering for? host: you mean the people who accused trump of not telling the truth? who are you asking? caller: yes. host: so, i guess what greg is asking is, do you fact-check both sides? are there equal amount of fact checking when people criticize president trump, for example? guest: absolutely. we aim to spend an eal amount of time reviewing claims made by republicans and democrats and apply the same standards for accuracy to those claims. i mean, you can definitely find stories on our website about things that former president trump said and things that president biden has said.

we love to get suggestions from readers. if anybody sees something and we have not fact checked it and you think this is something we need to pay attention to, please email us. host: all right. let's go to lynyrd towne, maryland now. joe on the inner pendant -- independent line. caller: good morning, and thanks for the conversation. didn't know i would be involved, and i am. you said fact-check.org was started by the keller -- i do not mean to get the names wrong, but i know the name brooks jackson. do you know that name, ma'am? guest: yes, absolutely. [laughter] he is a cofounder of fact-check.org. caller: i would have called him the founder, to be honest. that might be my mistake. i worked with brooks jackson, not anymore, not in the last two

years probably. i am a home fixer. i fix people's homes. i meet this gentleman at his home. he has his wife, he helps her a lot. beautiful home in maryland. what a guy. he explained how he started fact-check.org. this was the first time it got used in a political thing that year. i met him around that time. i will get out of yells way. yes, the brooks jackson award, you can get it. can i put out olanderous thought? not slanderous, that is a bad word. i just feel like, i feel like sometimes, it is partisan. host: that checking can be partisan? caller: what is that? host: you are saying that fact checking can be partisan? caller: i feel like every single one of these places is partisan.

i do not feel like you are ever getting an unbiased opinion. bn brooks had this conversation. it might be why i do not work for him anymore, because he knew i loved trump and hated hillary. i painted a picture of hillary. i was explaining my opinions. politics is a serious and divisive and can separate the country. that is why redskins fans and cowboys fans hate each other. host: i want to ask you particulate from the right, fact checking to them confirms there is a bias against republicans or conservatives. how do you guys combat those concerns that the fact checking in of itself is partisan? guest: you know, i think that -- again, i would encourage people to look at the other articles

that we have done on other -- the other side. i think often, we will get emails complaining about a story we wrote about biden from democrats and get republicans complaining about a story we wrote about trump. we do cover both sides. the other thing is, i think that it is great to have an open mind in reading these fact-checks to realize that the person that you support, whichever side that is, does not always get things right. so, our articles are designed to give you the facts behind their talking points and provide context and more information. i hope that would be helpful and it is not some kind of attack on one politician or the other. host: along those lines, we have a question we received on x from @thehippie who writes, never

before has the public h t deal with suchxtreme this information. can the guest comment on how they are handling the unprecedented nature of our current political climate? guest: great question. [laughter] day by day, essentially, continuing to do our work the way we have always done it. encouraging people to also do a little bit of fact checking themselves, particularly on social media, and take a moment to stop for sharing something to look into it to see if it is correct. host: let's go to california. harbor city, california, ed on the republican line. caller: good morning. i want to know if ms. robertson thinks that any of these things are factual about donald trump,

that he is an autocrat, a bully, a carnival marker, a dictator, or nx's threat to democracy -- an existential threat to my chrissy. our those factual? guest: those are opinions so we would not fact-check anything like that. host: along those lines, fact-check.org, are you guys partisan? do you guys share opinions ever within the news organization? guest: we do not. we require our staffers to sign a nonpartisanship agreement that says they will not engage in partisan activities. nobody on staff contributes to political campaigns, does any work for a political group, no bumper stickers, no yard signs, nothing like that. we aim to be nonpartisan. and fact-check both sides equally. host: back to the phone lines.

we are going to go to cottontail, alabama now. glenda on the republican line. caller: yes, ma'am. i have got a question for the host. on the title 18 of the u.s. code, 2383, 2381 and 101 deals with the mention of the president of the united states. can i have a comment on that, please? guest: i'm not sure what -- host: i think you are going to have to call us back and be a little more specific with your question, glenn. let's go to donna on the independent line from hampton, virginia. caller: i have a question for you. every time i see the things that come out about how many people they employed every month, how many of those do you fact-check to see, more people are getting

to and three jobs because the economy is so awful? so, you can't tell me we have got 300,000 this month,extra jo. guest: yeah, actually, i do not have the figures off the top of my head or anything. the bureau of labor statistics does do break downs of, you can look at the number of people who are working part time, looking for extra work, people with multiple jobs. that kind of data is available. host: i want to bring up an issue that has come up more recently about deepfakes. i want to ask about that. there is two recent examples i want to bring up. one, this is this morning's new york times. it has an article with the headline, fake images of swift

-- we are talking about taylor swift, hit social media in spreads. it says, fake, sexually explicit images of taylor swift likely generated by artificial intelligence spread rapidly across social media platforms last week. disturbing fans who saw them and reigniting calls for lawmakers to protect women and crackdown on platforms and technology that images. but also, when you talk about ai and what we call deepfakes, there was a robo call in new hampshire ahead of the primary last week and -- i am showing an associated press article, the headline says new hampshire investigating fake biden robo call to discourage voters ahead of primary. we actually can play that robo call. let's play that robo call that

sounded like it was from former president biden. >> a bunch of malarkey. they know the value of voting democratic when our votes count. it is important do you save your vote for the november election. we need your help electing democrats up and down the ticket. voting this tuesday enables republicans in their quest to reelect trump again. your vote makes a difference in november, not this tuesday. host: my question for you, lori, is there a way to fact-check ai generated content? what are your thoughts about how technology is affecting what we see on social media, but also around elections? guest: we have not fact-check much ai content so far, but we expect it is coming. the hope is, as this technology improves to make it easier to

deceive people, the technology to detect it also improves. there are tools that we can use to enter audio and see whether or not it might be ai generated. those tools are not exact yet. you basically get a percentage chance that this is real or ai. after that, we would be looking at experts in audio detection to help us evaluate something. images are a little easier, sometimes. we can do a reverse image serve. you can do that yourself on google or other tools out there to see if an image had appeared somewhere else originally and now has been manipulated a bit. those tools, we have been using for quite some time. host: does your organization get involved in the public-policy side?

we know there has been conversations in congress, even the white house with the latest taylor swift controversy has said they are concerned. have you been involved at all in the conversations about misinformation online, ai, fake images and all of that? guest: we do not do that. host: not your lane. guest: yeah. [laughter] host: let's go back to the phone lines. bill is in maryland on the democratic line. what is your question or comment, bill? caller: i have a quick comment. i am very delighted at what c-span is doing. i think you are doing an immense job in helping us americans keep -- with our government. the one thing i have a question about is that, it seems like, to me, multiple times, the

conversations are framed and perhaps even some of the guest people that you have, with exception of the young lady that is on today -- may be framing it in such a manner in which one party or another are going to be pointing fingers at each other, rather than having an open platform where it is not speaking to any particular party in a negative way, but pulling everybody together and having them on an equal level of perspex and as we look at the parties of what they are doing and the way they going around trying to make decisions and whatnot. i am trying to say that there is a lot of things that are making

us as the public, as citizens, line up one party or another. if there is some way we can stop doing that. another comment, a question, is there any way that when these inaccurate accusations are made, maybe, is there any way or entity that could isolate, have some type of penalty, financial penalty, for that? one last thing, as a citizen myself, i have over last couple of years or so, i have actually -- this has taken time to have a statement, i do not have a platform, but trying to make a statement. i love america. i have done seven paintings entitled -- seven paintings

entitled, let's save america. i have been trying to find a way to exhibit them. i have an exhibit going on at the airport. i participated in -- host: bill, we appreciate you sharing your thoughts and concerns about hyper partisanship. how do you guys, is there a way to combat that through fact checking? guest: one thing we have tried to do is in addition to offering stories that fact a particular claim,■ write stories that are simply providing the facts and not fact decking one claim or another. we like to do stories where politicians disagree. one says this, one says the other. we can fact-check both sides. essentially, it turns out both sides had a little bit of it right and a little bit of it wrong. i hope those kinds of stories where we are looking at both

sides in one piece or looking at just the facts like the biden's numbers piece or the trumps numbers pieces could be something where appeals to everybody, no matter what politician they are supporting. host: let's hear from ben in california, independent line. caller: [indiscernible] host: ben? you are breaking up a lot. can you move to a place with a little bit after inception? caller: [indiscernible] i am sorry wow. ok. i am in a rural area. how is this? host: that is much better. caller: hi. [indiscernible] host: sorry, we lost you again. ben is in rural area. sorry, we cannot hear you.

kevin is in princeton, indiana, republican line. caller: ms. robertson, i have never heard of fact-check.org before. i think you have an uphill climb. i think the problem you have got in this country right now is, the media has lost their trust with the american people. i do not know if that is social media has cause that or what. but, you look at, during the world war ii, mr. goebel's was the guy that pushed misinformation for the nazi party. we see misinformation and omission of information. that is what you see most importantly, is omission of information from the progressive left media. they leave out the important angst. the fact that we had years of russia, russia, russia collusion pushed by all of the major media outlets.

we leave out the irs targeting of conservative 501(c)(3) organizations. we had the laptop. 32 cia members signed off it was russia disinformation from hunter biden. that was from russia. that was an actual, legitimate device that could have probably changed the election in 2020. it is the misinformation and distrust instilled by the major media outlets and the omission of fact. you have got a border that is under crisis right now. you have got a constitutional crisis where the state of texas is not enforcing the laws that the supreme or just ratified to pulled the wire. yet, that is not -- that information is not being given to the american people because they do not want to highlight the border crisis down there because it could damage the biden administration. there is only one outlet, or maybe two.

all of the norms -- all of the news organizations outside of conservative radio, that even comments about the border. host: all right, kevin. let me stop you there because i want to let lori respond. guest: i think trust in the media is a problem and something that all of us in journalism need to work on. being transparent about the way you do our work and readily collecting -- correcting something when we do get it wrong are a few steps that can help in that regard. i do not know if i want to comment on anything in particular there. immigration has been covered. that is another thing in our recent biden's numbers piece where we present the numbers on apprehensions at the southern border that have increased quite substantially, almost 300% under

biden compared with the last year under trump. host: along the same lines of something you just raised, j nders on x asked, what if yo are fact checking an organization gets something wrong? are there procedures for considering that? guest: oh, absolutely. we are, we very much want to correct something that is wrong on a site called fact-check.org, of course. there are procedures to call or email us and let us know what you have seen that you believe is incorrect. we research that, if it requires more research, discussed that among the top editors on staff and issue a correction in the story. we also do things we call clarifications, where something was not really wrong, but there was more information that we wanted to add or something that we needed to

clear to the public. we will issue a clarification, as well. host: also on x, bobby writes, does trumps constant lying make it seem that fact checkers are biased against trump? guest: it is hard for me to answer that. that is a perception that people will have individually. we have written about a lot of things that trump has gotten wrong. at this point, there is a lot of repeats. we do sometimes write about things that a politician says that they have repeated that they are wrong, but we are trying to look more for new claims, new things that have come up. host: let's go back to the phone lines. frank in connecticut, independent line. caller: yes, thank you for taking my call. i have a question for the guest

with regard to polls and surveys. i have a little bit of experience on this. actually, quite a bit. does your organization look at polling to see whether the polling's are being presented to society to say, for instance, trump has an advantage here or -- are increasing at a tremendous rate. whether those are done in a way that gives you the right answer, because i suspect that -- not that it is something nefarious done, but the polls are not done in a basis that gives you a true inflection of what the polls is suggesting. i was wondering if you could give me an answer as to what extent to you make an investigation or fact checking based on the polls and process,

because -- host: i'm going to stop you there because we have about one minute left. guest: we are not fact checking polls just to fact-check the polls. if somebody makes a claim about a particular poll, we will take a look at that. the caller has a point that sometimes a question in the poll is phrased in a certain way that might be more likely to get a certain answer. this is hypothetical, but if we are fact checking a certain claim about a pole, we might look at, how was this question asked? what was the margin of error and provide that information. host: we are going to leave it there. lori robertson, managing editor of fact-check.org. thank you for joining us. guest: thank you. host: that is going to do it all for "washington journal" today. we will be back tomorrow morning, 7:00 a.m.

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