capable industry, c-sp h provide incomplete coverage of the halls of congress from the house and senate floors togressional hearings, party briefings and committee meetings. row seat to how issues are debated and commentary, no interruptions, and completely unfiltered. >> welcome back. we are joined by jeff brabant. we are talking about the state of small business in the u.s. read welcome to the program.

-- u.s.. thank you. host: our average organization has 7.5 emeethe business was stn 1943. it was started as an alternative to a lot of is this associatns.we have a cap on our. the ideass owner, you can pay a small sum of money and get a membership and you access to the federal and state level. that is a if you are concerned e is not being heard, a group like nfib■■m gets your voice heard in washington. host: it's been four years since the pandemic, how are small business doing? for decades. fl know as both consumers

anything to help that be welcomed from small business owners one of the reasons information inflation has been so hard to deal with is it is hard to get good wothey haves and benefits. it's been a difficult cyc. you g called the small bin optimism . there is a lot that goes into it. in general, how optimistic are small business owners? guest: index is a little below historical averages. that go into that. the economy is very stronthere . think the revelatory environment has little to do with it as well. -- a little to do with it as well.

there is a low unemployment rate and their business is doing ok. there is a strictory environment and that can do if the optimism. host: we have 272,000 jobs added in may. the employment -- unemployment rate our small businesses able to had how difficult has that been? >> that's been the biggest issue, trying to fill those po's been a huge issue. because of that, we are finding small business owners are compensation to try to attract the best talent. it business owner. you may not have those platinum benefits that larger competitors have. they have a more unique challenge when trying to attract employees. guest: we talk -- host: we■=pp talked about infla, what about business rates?

how is that impactin■hg business owners? guest: they are able to get credit but iexpensive to get cr. interest rates historically have been -- rates, it's more expensive to get credit a ihost: you can stan if you have a question or comment for jeffbantbusinesses. we have a line for small business owners. we would love to hear from you. that number is (202) 748-8003. call to texas. otherwise, republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-80. independents, (202) 748-8002. in an interview with bloomberg white■e boucher was

asked about those working or actively looking for work. >> the noise that remains awake with covid is remarkable to me. economists are still having so much difficulty forecasting data, which is why we see these numbers frequently blow past expectations. we are also■ -- seeing the participation rates struggle to get back to where will that hap? >> w rate, the secretary may have pointed out to you earlier, watching the number of women between the ages of 25e are seeing another month of a record high labor force participation rate and a record high in the employment rate. there has -- where we were pre-pandemic. some of that is what's been right. this recovery and thist hard fos

to rely on the tried and true models that we have had. our analysis has to bei think ft are getting this sense of what's going on. i will say it was nice to see this month that we exceeded expectations so much on the payroll numbers. hat do you think? guest: odisruptive to the labor market. the shutdowns, the long-term industries and some of the government programs that increaseemtion to historic high. that made it so there was a significant lag to get people back to the are years removed from some of those policies, those policies have lsed but it will always be a struggle when you have such a disruptive event to get people back to the workforce. a lot of people decided to make significant career changes.a loi

want to work remotely. maybe 't want to do what i've been doing for the last 20 years, i want to sit host: another big issue durin f. have they recovered from that? any still lingering issues with supply chains? guest: think we have some lingering issues. i think it is in a better plac than yougo. from what i understand, in -- an to a degree but not to the the president of your organization wrote an opinion piece with the headline two ways congress can give small businesses relief. one of them is the trump era tax cuts.

rmanent or to extend them. why? guest:increase on over 30 millin small business owners. tart a small business, odds are you will be a self proprietor. these are what is called -- you hear about the c corporate the lowest c corporate went down to 21% the vast majority, 90% of businesses are passive businesses. they pay the individual rate. one thing that was put in is to helppuparity was the 20% deduct. ld still be at 37%. the c corporate willif you are , you are going to be paying a tax rate. congress created the 20% past production.

of small business owners can take advantage of it. that brings the effective rate eythe other things that go into that when you are paying these individual rates, there the deduction goes away. we are looking at significant tax over 30 million small business owners. host: the other thing that is in this opinion is about regulation. what kind of regulatns aguest: , state anfederal level. the one we are trying to make sure congress and everyone is aware of is this new beneficial ownership reporting requirement. this one is uniquely targeted at small business owners. np>ç■ñit doesn't happen very muh where small businesses are exempt and small business owners are the only ones that have tths with 20 or fewer employees and

less than $5 million in revenue to register eir business. substantial controletwhat does ? it is broadly defined. if you own a small restaurant with six employees and you have a general manager,bstantial cono register them. if you have a general counsel -- host: what does it mean to register with them? guest: the financial crisis network. their job is to stop financial crimes. they areasintelligence agency tp fing, you have to go to one of their websitesle youra copy of anowlicense, exactly, al few other pieces of information. could go to jail for up to two

years and g up fines. this is a bit of a scary thin dy laundering. the bigger conr't a one and done registration and you forgetut information you provide changes,you have 30. let's say your drivers license exs mind. getting to the dmv. is a lifetime commitment for small business owners. will be effective and stop money laundering. it is a huge burden on small businesses. burden is estimated at 10 years and bilon. host: are you getting any ress to get that repealed?

guest: there are repeal bills, one ñd theouse and senate. congressman warren davidson of the house has theg big brother h acts. in the senate, senator it's going torepeal. whenever something gets passed that is this big and has its supporters, it will obviously be difficult to repeal it. we will make sure at a minimum that members of congress are very aware that there is a lot of small business owners out there who find this extremely burdensome and they need to let congress know he to one of the phones. , a democrat in california, good money. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have a question about the economic analysis when it comes to taxation. because, if i'm trying to quuse ofnd this economic thesis

the economic employment packageo hich is tougher small business owners to combat. on the other hanhe taxes and tax cuts are about to expire next year. taxes are deflationary pressure. same thing with raising interest rates. theoney is higher. overall, there is a decrease in that doesn't just affect small business owners, that affects everyone else. youmonthly inflation has been trending as have interest rate hikes whthat will be even . tax cuts causing inflation, the opposite will beng inflation subside of it. i want to ask the guest, how do we square these issues? thank you. guest: sure. 90% of small business owners

will see a tax hikin less than two years. with inflation by taxing the smallest businesses in america and making them significantly less competitive with large business owners, that's one way to do it. i don't think the membership at nfib would be supportive of that. members■@ are businesses that have seven employees. this is over 90% of small businesske. let's say you own a small coffee shop on main street. your federal effective tax rate could be in excess of 40% if everything chameanwhile, the fes for starbucks is going to be 21%. sosay hey, you have to increase these taxes to help with inflation. ■but not everything exists in a

vacuum and we will significantly damage the small business economy and you will affect entrepreneurs. almost every entrepreneurcell p. if we are comfortable increasing their taxes while keeping tax the same on the biggest businessesn that's one way to do what nfi -- to do it but nfib would not be supporve ofi s a lot of the right things. they doatements saying small bus is very effective. but i think the regulatory enness owners. we have seen a host of new regulations from, especially those in a form of labor have been■ore difficult for small business

owners. they have beenthe president's budget that have proposed increaseders. one of the most frustrating things coming out of the white houses well, we are not going to inc owners becausee will cap any tax increase. we can't do anything for anybody making $400,000. if you make $400,000, you will get;x an n taxes and if you're not, there will not be an increase in taxes. the spa'sefjust because you hav. that means youincome, which is s to youpl and goes to expansion for all of your ness operations -- operators. that argument that

small business owners won't see a tax hike, we feel it falls a little flat. host: how do you define a we let decision. host: 500 seems like a big company. guest: the average or eight buts the an easier one could be 50-5r 25. if you have 25 empuolo, peoplei think anyone would arg i a small business, with $400,000 of revenue. you need a lot more than t■t ifj you want to pay your employees. host: let's go to■j the republin line in georgia, joe, good morning. caller: i love c-span. there is a man, steve moore, who ran the economy undermpwe namede

champion of small bhe's on natin he's doing a great job for small ■"3business and the taxpayers ad we have two members of the georgia legislature who are goingfter government waste. there is we are proud of johnny and matthew for going at government waste. nd we are naming him the number one champion of small business for the states. host: jeff, do you agrewith that? guest: that's great. we haven't worked with steve more so i can't comment too much on that but i'm glad you love sml the best of luck. host: beach, florida, mike, republican. good morning. caller: athe first is the real l businesses are there in the united states compared toand hoe

employed by small2019? those are the real questions to and to gauge the health of small businesses. my second comment is filling positions, there's there aren'th workers to fill positions. we need people coming t■q illeo fill all of these positions. that is a red herring. gentleman, and i reec is the education system needs to be changed. we need to stop wasting our time withm$ dei and all of the ridiculous sexualization of children, they need to be learning the fundamentals, they have the brains and the capacity and thinking ability pe needed in all types of small businesses. ■v make, and i hope this

gentleman really takes this to heartnot be based on region, the federal ñwgovernment, all of this ridiculousness. the mi on the size of the business. if you have thousands of employees, you have officeall around the world, you should be paying a higher minimum wage than the pizzeria on the corner. does anyone not understandhost:. ad, jeff. guest: going back to the first commentbout comparing 2019 to now and how the small is this economy hahave those statisticst of me without my computer handys a little over 32 million small business owners. of them are self proprietors who are not employers.

they employ about half of the worke.it could be over 50% depeg on the year. ■a significant -- it is a huge number ofit employs about e workforce, which is a significant number. in terms of workers, i think small business owners are agnostic about how they get them. they just want to have good workers. its industry dependent. the thing about nfib we salary across industries. restaurants, manufacturing, retail, we have every type of business you can think of. get down to industry specifics, somepled skill workers and others don't need skill workers. the education component matters focertain industries and other industries, not as much. but for our workers, they are fairly agnostic about how they get the workers. they just really want the workers. lastly on minimum wage, one thing i can speak to is difficur

small business owners. wage and benefit issues are very challengg.if you have less than0 employees, you don't have the economy of scale of amazon to offer great benefits. you have center margins necessae profit margins to offer those ad benefit mandates, they usually■z haveisproportionately large impact on small business owners. how do you feel about illegal immigration? guest:lly does not one of the great things ou is we have a democratic process where we actually alice our members and ballot our members and ask them how they feel and if we can get a 70% consensus, we don't take a position. we have not taken a position on it. host: in orange,

connecticut, democrat. a. caller: good morning, how are you? host: good. i'm curious, you are talking about the reporting requirements that are coming up at the federal level. mentioning how much it would cost small businesses. fee required to report these changes? how would this cost small businesses that much money? guest: the financial crimes enforcement twork, whenever we have a big regulation, they have to come up with a cost estimate for the economy at large andall. this was their tenure estimate.

and said how long and how much time will itup with a dollar amount of what that is worth to a small business owner. or three hours. two or three hours of your time isth m number of entities and give you analysis. host: to register. guest: it is free. you can■e register on our websi. host:■c/is in philadelphia on the independent line. hi, chris. caller: i work personally i thiha getting cut out of a lot of deals that i should be getting in termswork andforced to work t necessarily getting the benefits of working overtime. i wish i had

that would be kind of nice. i was wondering your opinion on that from the workers perspective. i know you are talking about small business breaks but peoplo work for the sma businesses we have to do stuff that is well out of our job ■e■gdescription and we need protections as well. guest: i hear you. re required by law to pay time and a overtime. you should be getting compensated for that. in terms of benefits, real chall business owners face, offering health insurance. the percentage ) -- small busins offering health insurance has dipped 8% since the passing of the affordable care act. -- has significantly more restrictions and requirements. it has for small business owners. one of the things we hear the most is hard to attract

qualified workers like yourself if you are not ablewe are urginh new and innovativereduce becaush insurance. if you are a small business employer, we can offer insurance to attract workers. host: there is a h t overall jos risen or shrunk ai became employers in job market? how much has of human workers with ai systems increased since thend pandemic? have you looked at that? guest: i have not. ai has turned into quite the buzzword lately. i think many small business owners are not too familiar with this. if you are operating a restaurant andt= a small manufacturer, you are probably not too familiar with how this haai is computerthat has been ce

workplace for a long time. computers are ai. this has been changing the workforce for some time and will contue to do so and we will learn more about that. host: let's gogeorgia. larry on the line for democrats. caller: i want to talk about the economics of what president trump, saying he has had this great economy. i have a small business in georgia. and in georgia, under idt obama in 2009, we had sony businesses that -- so many and black and small owned businesses and we had a great d president trump is taking the credit for it. anweit's alive. we in 2015, our economy was the best. and in 2016, ensident

trump -- he started saying d economy but over 80 million of us know different. own a small business in georgia. during that time, we have done between 2010 and 2014. what i would like to say to you keep up the good work. i like what you are saying. we had a problem covid. mall business went down and o be getting from filling out the forms and everything and on the last day, we didn't receivwe hae money from us. and so, what i want to ask you is us how the economy will look in 2015 versus 2016?

host: what business do you run? caller:p■■'host: how is businesr you? happened, i had to shut down my businessave gotten to help me out, i had to shut it down. i'm not complaining. cause now i am at retirement age. business was great under president obama. guest: let me say i'm sorry about your business shutting down i know, as you can speak to, owning a smallusiness is extremely difficult. there are a lot of pressures from jus staying afloat and dealing with compliance and paperwork and making sure you can get qualified employees is a difficult task. if we can go back 2015-2016,

president trump is elected. i would say it depends on yo in. it was the first year of a new president and when that happens, generally speaking, the one very positive tng trump did was try to roll back some regulations and reduce the reg toy burns so people like you have more time to spendeéning your business rather than doing paperwork. you don't have a compliance team, you don't have a legal team. yo athat was an immediate posite thing. 2016, tax environment was about the same. the regulatory environment was a little better probably. i can't speak to the conditions on the ground for you are from, larry but that is kind of■v■7a%e bigger picture of what we were looking at in 2015 and 201 host: we got a text from bill in new york who says ma black small business owners complaining they ing

undermined and possibly sabotaged and held to a h standard than their counterparts of a different race, like unfair s and support is not given. overheads to operate. what to happen to 11 eight this feeling from black business owners? guest: i■é■j' speak to anything ral and state laws that small don't allow lenders to business, based and there shouldn't be any discriminatory practices for permitting as well. i would encourage you if you feel you are being discriminated against to report that to the authorities. that should all be illegal and i has any place in our economy. a call at (202) 748-8003.all us. otherwise, you can call us