flat. do we see the same trend in 2024? >> anything to add? no. that was very well done in one minute. i want to think the audience and i want you to help me thank amy and david for joining us. [applause]

[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2024] host: good morning, tuesday, august 13. former president trump was interviewed last night on x by that platform's billionaire

owner ehrupb musk. but the broadcast was significantly delayed and many people were not able to access it immediately. musk blamed the problems on a denial of service attacks. the two men spoke for about two hours. this morning we are getting your thoughts on social media in politics. do you think it plays a positive or negative role? how much do you rely on social media for your campaign news? here are the numbers. republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. and independents, 202-748-8002. you can send us a tefbgs, 202-748-8003. send your first name and city, state. as always we are on social media, facebook.com/c-span. and x @cspanwj. welcome to today's "washington journal." glad you are with us. start with a poll about social media from the pew research

organization with this headline. many americans find value in getting news on social media, but concerns about inaccuracies have risen. here they ask about what you like about getting the news from social media. and the top response by far at 20% is the convenience followed by the feed and being able to interact with people. when they are asked what do you not like the largest thing was that it's inaccurate. and here you can see it has grown from 2018 when it was at 31% saying they dislike that social media news is inaccurate to 40% in 2023. take a look at the portion of the interview with musk yesterday. this is audio only. >> sort of overnight is there rewriting history and making

kamala sound like a moderate when she is far left, far, far left. >> she is considered far liberal by far than bernie sanders. she's a radical left lunatic. if she's going to be our president, very quickly you are not going to have a country anymore. she'll go back to all the things that she believes in. she believes in defunding the police. she believes in no fracking, zero. now all of a sudden she's saying no, i will -- really want to see fracking. if they got in, the day she got in, she'll end fracking. and by the way, if people didn't think that, the hraopb particulars that leave -- lunatics that leave in that they won't vote for her. like the palestinians and israel. she is so anti-israel -- she's bad for both. biden actually did something that was empossible. both sides hate him. you know. both sides. that was a hard thing to do. unification.

>> i mean, i mean, netanyahu came to give a talk to joint senate and house. i was there. and kamala stood him up. what does that say? >> i think it's highly disrespectful. and i say if you are a jewish person or if you believe in israel, if you are a person that is very pro-israel, if you vote for her, it's worse than biden. and biden was bad. but if you vote for her you ought to have your head examined. host: that was from last night. during the interview the trump campaign posted this on x of the former president speaking to musk over a cell phone, here it is. >> biden actually did something that was *pl possible. both sides hate him. you know. both sides. that was a hard thing to do. unification. host: we'll go to calls now and start with eric in newport, new

hampshire, independent, good morning. caller: good morning. i'm the lead guy a lot of pressure. anyway, social media obviously has a huge influence on everyone. i think more so maybe for the younger people. but my real question is, you know, why doesn't ms. harris come out and actually do media presence. this is the real question. why isn't she out with the media being like interviewed and obviously social media's different, for instance, trump on x yesterday. and she's obviously -- i have a new nickname for ms. harris, not kamala it's chameleon, she's changing every one of her views and wish she would come out on social media or any types of

media and tell us what her views are. thank you. host: all right. elon musk did pose this on his platform, x, at 12:39 a.m. in the morning. saying happy to host kamala on an x basis, too. using the vice president's first name only there. and bill is in georgia, independent line, good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead, bill. what do you think about social media? caller: thank you. thank you so much for taking my call. i won't take a lot of time. i just want to say this if you don't mind. this election we kind of -- what you might say floating around out there in space. it's a simple decision. you got two candidates. one is running for president and that is vice president harris.

we have another person who is -- does not want to be a president. he wants to be a dictator. you got a choice. do you want a dictator or do you want a president? it's very simple. i don't care what your background is. you have to make a choice. are you voting for america, or are you voting for dictator? i'm an old-fashioned man. 79 years old. and my life may not be much worth much longer, i will say this much. i am -- i'm a patriotic person. and i believe in a president. and donald trump is no president. host: bill, i wonder, do you ever look at social media? do you have an account say on facebook or on x or tiktok?

caller: i'm sorry. host: no problem. talk to lee in kalamazoo, michigan, republican. hi, lee. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. hope your day is going great. host: it's just getting started. reserve judgment on that. caller: more coffee. any howe -- any how, my whole thing i don't do facebook, any of the social media stuff. i don't watch that kind of stuff. but all i have to say is if you consider yourself a christian, how could you vote for kamala harris and tim. they are both running on abortion. that's pretty much it. which freedom of choice. they are running on abortion. and you have a guy that is putting tamm ponce in a boy's locker room. i don't know where the crazy started, but i tell you when trump gets in that's when it stops. thank you guys. have a great day. host: and dennis in north carolina, democrat, hi.

caller: hello. good morning. i don't depend too much on social media. you have to decipher which organizations bring you the real news and you listen to those. of course there are lot of organizations that bring you your high percentage. i want you aware of that. you have to be very careful. with respect to the interview with elon musk and donald trump, i cannot understand my republicans, colleagues because they say trump speak lies, they admit he doesn't behave well, he case a -- says a lot of things you shouldn't really listen to. how can you entrust the country and all its business to a guy

who behaves like that. you don't. and the guy who talked about being christians, not voting for kamala, because of abortion. well, that's one issue. how can you be a christian and vote for a guy who lies all the time, who has been found by his piers -- peers guilty of rape. found to be fraudulent. come on, my republican colleagues, open your eyes. be a good -- make a good judgment on this situation. that's all i have to say. thank you. host: the harris campaign did put out a statement on that conversation with elon musk. our statement on whatever th was, it says donald trump's extremism and dangerous project 2025 agenda is a feature not a glitch of his campaign which was on full display for those unlucky enough to listen tonight

during whatever that was on x. trump's entire campaign is in service of people like elon musk and him sefplt self-obsessed rich guys who will sell out the middle class and who cannot run a live stream in the year 2024. dusty from myrtle beach, something. independent. caller: three things i want to talk about. number one, harris is running the campaign. she's not acting like donald trump. running all around willy-nilly. don't have -- don't know what he's talking about half the time. hairis -- harris has a campaign to run and she has a strategy. she's introducing herself to the public right now. to the voters. this week she's going to have a convention. next week she'll start doing her

interviews and whatever you all want her to do in front of a camera and a microphone. number two, you republicans better read project 2025 because i'm going to tell you right now it's going to affect you just as much as it's going to affect democrats. and the things that are in that 2025 is going to -- if trump gets in there, you will -- in 100 days you will not even recognize this country. he will destroy it with 2025. and i will say thank you. i thought i would never, ever see the day i would tell donald trump thank you. but thank you for that partner you got running around calling a vice president candidate, j.d. vance. that is the biggest joke i have seen. i have been watching politics

since carter. he is the worst i have ever seen. thank you. he's going to keep you out of the white house. thank you. host: and michael in pittsburgh, a republican, hi, michael. caller: yes. how are you? thank you so much for taking my call. i love c-span. i think it's such a wide cross section of viewpoints which is the problem i have with social media. i don't believe you get a good cross section of verifiable viewpoints. and i think it is to the left. you can find conservative things on it just as you can find conservative things on fox or newsmax or something like that. most of the media in general is slanted so much it's liberal. host: you think that even after musk took over x, twitter?

caller: that really helps. that's a huge plus. just like there are people that will tune in to fox or tune in to news, max or different conservative -- more conservative viewpoints that x has helped a lot since elon musk took over. i saw a segment of that interview. it seemed like -- that's a real interview. he was asking him real questions. and you get all these softball questions from the mainstream media. when you have someone like j.d. vance on, who really made some excellent points and he went on face the nation, which ever one it was, not sure which -- host: he was on the sunday shows this past sunday. caller: yeah. and he was asking some questions. he says why aren't you asking -- why aren't you really having an

interview with kamala harris. when he does -- host: michael, you said that you watched some of the interview with elon musk last night or listened to it? caller: i just excerpts from it on fox they had some excerpts. host: ok. do another excerpt. this is them talking about the department of education and mr. trump's plans. >> think of education, we are ranked at the bottom of every list of the top 40. we are ranked number 40, number 38. norway, switzerland, sweden different countries are rarpbges pretty close to the top there. top six or seven. but we are ranked at the bottom. almost at the bottom. 38, 39, 40. in other words horrible. yet we spend more per pupil than any other country in the world. we spend more.

and what i'm going to do, one of the first acts, this is where i need an elon musk, i need somebody that has a lot of strength and courage and smarts, i want to close the department of education, move education back to the states, where states like iowa, where states like idaho -- not ever state will do great. because states basically aren't doing good now. you look at gavin newsome, the governor the california. he's dot a terrible job. he's not going to do great with education. of the 50, i would bet that 35 would do great. and 15 of them or 20 of them will be as good as norwayment you know norway is considered great. you can name them. they are so good. some of these countries are so good. if you go into some of these really well run states. we have states that don't know what dead s we have states that have low taxes, no debt.

everybody -- they are really well run. maybe they have certain advantages in terms of location. in terms of the land or the sun and the water and the whole thing. there are a lot of advantages that some people have. if you moved education back to the 50, you have some that won't do well. but they'll be forced to do better because it will be a bad situation. host: former president trump last night saying he would close the department of education if he became president. send that function back to the states. we are going to take your calls on your views on social media and politics for about the next 15 minutes. then we'll transition over to open forum. whatever else is on your mind you can share that with us. here is mark on facebook who ys this about social media. it brings out the nastiness in people. many adults don't comprehend that debating politics is a way convince others to vote in favor of your issue or candidate.

most people on he argue and insult others. theresa says president trump and elon musk interview was an ome two hours, five minutes d 58 seconds of a raw, uncut, ank conversation. it was inspiring to hear two global giants speak on so many american people.benefit the thank you, president trump, and elon for being so candid and open about everything. it w inspiring. here's jamie also on facebook. it definitely can be done well, buit still has way less guardrai in place than traditional media. and the regulations around it are still being developed. it's relatively new in the gnd scope of the media landscape. i remember there was a reay long time where youtube channels di'tave to show have their videos were sponsored which sed a conflict of interest for many. largely at been fixed but

still more needs to be done to be surthere are penalties in place for purposely knowingly spreading misinformation, etc. and back to the calls to prince, south carolina, democrat, good morning. caller: hello, good morning. host: good morning. you are on. caller: yes. i was calling because i -- i am he democrat and i was going -- wasn't going to vote for biden because i think that he was messing up. but i am going to vote for harris. but as far as trump is concerned, i do not understand why everybody keep calling him president trump when he's a former president. he's not a president. to me he's one of the worst presidents there is. it's like put ago child in the white house -- putting a child in the white house. he's fighting with everybody. causing so much confusion. i don't understand it. america is so caught up in it he's asking everybody for help.

and at the same time he's pushing screens. i don't follow him. host: do you follow social media at all? do you get your news from that? caller: sometimes. i get a little bit from the news. from cnn. fox. different stations. i want to be neutral. host: all right. nate in franklin, indiana, republican. good morning. nate. caller: good morning. elon musk, donald trump, social media all have the same in common. all three sources of misinformation and lies. i think my republican party, the theme song should be "tell mi lais, tell me sweet little lies." i can't put my hand over my heart every day, pledge allegiance to the flag and to the republic and vote for someone like donald trump who tried to interfere and present false electors to the u.s.

congress. that is against the republic. that's against my pledge to the republic. also, for my christian friends out there, psalm chapter 15 says a vial person is to be condemned not voted and supported for. we got a man that cheated on three wives. he is a convicted sex offender. he's convicted of fraud, which is just another word for lying, for his benefit. that's a vial person. he's not to be supported. host: getting back to social media. you said there is a lot of misinformation. do you find yourself fact checking the -- what you see on social media? or do you just discount it and say it's not true?

how do you deal with that? caller: i do not do any social media. look, my information comes from multiple sources. the bible tells you that there's safety in the multitude of counsel. you don't listen to people you agree with. that's called an echo chamber. so i lensen to fox, cnn. these are people -- bible says things are established by witnesses not by people that's just repeating news. news is like food to your brain. social media's just taking news and chewing it up for you or preparing it so that you like it. but i like my news raw. and i get it from multiple sources. host: from "washington journal," right? and here is "washington post"

article saying, the secretaries of states urge musk to fix a.i. chat bot spreading false election information. grok is the a.i. search assistant. it suggested kamala harris had missed the ballot deadline in nine states. she hasn't. that is his a.i. bot it said he was urged immediately to implement changes to x's a.i. chat bot after it shared with millions of users false information suggesting that kamala harris was not eligible to appear on the 2024 presidential ballot. this is stacey in waldorf, maryland, democrat, good morning. caller: hi, how are you. host: good. caller:p i just -- i just think that social media -- it's a lot of misinformation. and that also comes from the actual news media. because people are watching the actual news then they post on

social media and misinformation just gets carried over and over and over again. perfect example, trump i guess back in june what it was he said no taxes on tips. if you watch all the news media about that, everybody was putting it down saying it was unrealistics, blah, blah, blah. kamala harris came out if you watched the news regarding her announcing that, it's been nothing but positive feedback. i think the news media itself, either liberal or conservative, their running -- they push their own narratives. and that happens on social media as well. so it's misinformation on both sides. as far as project 2025, that's been around since 1981. for 43 years no administration has ever picked up any of those policies. it's just insane to me that why wasn't this brought up in 2016?

2020? why is it a big focus now? it's propaganda. and the media uses that as a fear factor. that's what they have always done to us. the government, the media, now social media because everybody spews the echo chamber, it's just a lot of misinformation. host: all right. got it. let's talk to harry in norcross, georgia, independent line. caller: hey, that's me. host: it is you. caller: harry is my name. ok. i'm just going to say look, we are coming up to a conundrum that we have had building since 19 is 76 or 1978. whenever the court started getting taken over, the supreme court started getting taken over. and it's built all this up to us

and they have used it all this time to build up this christian nationalism system that most americans don't agree with. and now you find that you are getting folks put into elective positions in different states that control the elections. now i see we are really in a deep, dark tank here. and if we don't figure our way out of it, we are just kind of screwed. thanks. host: take a look at vice president harris was speaking to reporters after her rally in phoenix. here it is.

>> hi, guys. >> next. it will be focused on the economy and what we need to do to bring down costs and strengthen the economy overall. >> can you give us -- >> reaction to the israeli strike in gaza today that killed at least 80 people? >> yet again far too many civilians who have been killed. israel has a right toe go after the terrorist that is are hamas. but as i have said many, many times they also have, i believe, an important responsibility to avoid civilian casualties. >> policy for many, many months now. as tens of thousands of civilians have been killed. there are people who are asking for -- any kind of change? what do you say to those folks looking for more -- >> look, first and foremost, the

president and i have been working on this around the clock. we need to get the hostages out. we need a hostage deal and cease-fire. and i can't stress that strongly enough. it needs to get done. the deal needs to get done. and get done now. >> on the economy i know you'll speak about that this coming week. can you give us a sense on how -- what your view is on the fed and president trump weighed in on it thought he should have some say. >> i couldn't disagree more strongly. the fed is an independent entity. and as president i would never interfere in the decisions the fed makes. >> what's your take on their policies right now? there was concern last week as the markets fell there might be a recession coming. what's your view on that? >> as we know there was turn by lens this week, it seems to have settled itself. we'll see what decisions they make next. i hear about the same time you do.

>> do you know what day -- >> thank you. host: here is a text that we got from pat in westminster, lifornia. social media serves very little beneficial purpose. i.e. on x trump didn't answer one single question. he just complained and repeated his usualalking points. and sue in whiting, new jersey, says i'm not a fan of social media. much too much misinforti, gossip, rumors, exaggerations, etc. not a reliable tool for politics or reality in general. here is many burt in california who says socl media is just another medium available tod for people worldwide to not only pin news or actively comment about it live. it's great for free speech and thus doccy. finally mark in tulsa, oklahoma, says social media is basically

the "whiton journal" on steroids. many opinions expressed, shared, and traded. basically democracy at its best. understand all is essential to a better future. and here is julie in in immediateville, pennsylvania, republican, good morning. caller: good morning. social media i just started using that recently. i'm a grandmother. and i have eight brothers -- sorry nine brothers and sisters. we are all have our own families. and we all have our own opinions. they say one out of 10 will get this. i'm wondering i do not have to wait till tomorrow to read the newspapers for yesterday's news. some of it's instant. i'm not happy with the bickering and even my 87-year-old mother

doesn't want to argue about it. so i don't bring up what a democrat is or what a republican is. it seems like we are splitting each other apart. again, you have to fact check. my husband has gotten me into watching -- i don't even want to say some of their names if i'm allowed to same them over the air where i get my news from. and fact check, can they fact check. i'm just wondering when is this bickering going to stop and when are they going to bring the true facts in and say it on the news? why are we burning the flag? why are we upset about services? what are woman's right? what is education? what is health care? i have all of that in my family. so one out of 10 can give me an opinion on each one of them, and we may not agree, but at least

you can keep your mouth quiet for two minutes so you can listen to somebody. and, yes, be the fact check. the more i look at it, the worse it gets on all of them. host: all right. we are going to move to open forum. so you can continue to talk about this issue of social media and politics. the interview with elon musk last night if you'd like to. or if there are other things on your mind feel free to talk about that as well. the numbers are on your screen. republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. and independent, 202-748-8002. mary in fort washington, maryland, decrat. good morning. caller: good morning. good morning, c-span. i don't know trust social media for my political information. i seek it out. and i usually don't listen -- i don't listen to cnn or msnbc.

i never, ever turn to fox. i don't know what that network is. i just don't trust it. it's fun, but it's not political news. and i also listen to spaout nick radio. i don't always agree with the progressives sometimes, but 90% of the time i do. people say this if we are a christian why do we vote for kamala harris. i got to address that person. i want to ask him where was the christianity during slavery and where was the christianity during jim crow and the project 2025, we black people that lived under it since birth. and we pretty much shoved it up their behind and we are going to continue to shove it up their behind because it's not going to make any sense. project 2025 is jim crow era. i think most people that think like me aren't going to be afraid of something like that. we have already dealt with it. as far as elon musk and number

45 interview, i would never watch anything about him. i turn whenever i see him. i think elon musk is going to be nothing more than how he is one day. and that he has out that looks like the stink bug. host: cheryl in clarence, new york, independent line, good morning. caller: hi. there have been so many comments now that i'm getting confused on where my point is going to go. i will say that i don't think that social media is that bad of a medium for people to find information. but i don't think it was invented for that. i think it was invented so that people could converse with family and friends across the country or the world. and that's where it really should stay. i think as far as media goes, social media i think it's a confusion. we are all just listening to one

thing. if you are home and you are on facebook or you are on something you are only listening to one version of something, you should really fact check things. look through the different media that we have. i personally look at a podcast. i go through youtube. after i have watched the news i go and check every single item i tend to verify what is really true and what's not. i don't think enough people do that. i think they just take things at face value. what they hear. i think that's the confusion and where people are going to be rabbit holes following people like elon musk and donald trump. host: all right. sharice in connecticut, republican. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i'm just responding to the whole

idea of social media which i think i see a lot of responses here this morning that really talk to the fact that social media -- it has its pluses but it has its minuses. the minuses we are experiencing i believe in the world today is that social media is a tool. this tool is really harming a lot of people, especially our young people, who are depressed, who are committing suicide at alarming rates. and people used to communicate, they conversed with one another. they looked in each other's eyes. there was expression, a person behind who you were communicating with. now social media it's very easy to just fire off your opinion, whether it harms, whether it hurts. you know it gives people a boldness to express opinions in a very harmful way. and it goes beyond social media because in social media we have social media and then we have

television. what's happened is these tools have become uses for propaganda on both sides. but it's alarming because on some side there is more exposure and americans are not stupid. and people are not stupid. i think the problem is that our televisions today are, of course, everything is connected. all of our devices are connected. whether it's television or it's your iphone we can see on the iphone, which is apple, which is certain television stations, i'm going to name msnbc, because on those iphones we have stations that are politically aligned with money, which is backed to the democratic people. and their agenda. when i pick up the iphone and i want to get some news, it's msnbc. it's the atlantic.

it's -- i don't care who it is. it's all the mainstream news. it's "politico." these people are spewing and have opinion the democratic agenda, which has gone after a man -- host: do you ever -- caller: -- host: this is jusn in dearborn, michigan say getting your news from sia media is being intellectually lazy. they don't claim to be a news source why would anyone expect them to be. and carol in lafayette, louisiana, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. i appreciate you. out of all your colleagues i think you are the most balanced. i'm going to make a couple of points then i'm going to tell you what i think actually is going on. i'm the only democrat that calls and tells you that my house insurance went up $600 a year. my car insurance goes up $400 a year. you go to the grocery store,

$200, you're lucky to get a bag of groceries. two bags of groceries. the big thing i think, mimi, is this. my democratic party is talking about raising the taxes on the rich. they have been in 3 1/2 years. why didn't they do that at the very beginning? they are not going to do that. let me tell you what it's all about and i'm going to tell you who i am and you're going to remember me calling you. how do you become a multimillionaire working for the government? how do you accumulate $40 million worth of estate working for government? mimi, remember when i called you and i told you i'm going toil something that you are going to think about the rest of your life. i said if you were a united states senator, and somebody

came to you and offered you $2 million to vote a certain way, what would you do, and you turned it back on me and said what would i do? host: i remember. caller: i said mimi, i hope i wouldn't do it, but human nature, human nature says i would. what happens is, i think, is these people go into office with the right intentions and once all this money starts coming around -- how can you get filthy rich working for government? can you answer that, mi. i? host: all right. sofia, mississippi, independent line, good morning. caller: good morning, how are you? host: good. caller: good. i want to talk about -- i want to talk about what communism is. because people have a fundamental misunderstanding of it. especially when they say kamala

harris is far, far left. she's not. she's a capitalist. communism is the political ideology that's based in what's called labor theory. richard wolfe explains it very, very well the relationship between the worker and the owner class. the communism is working people having control over their own resources and fundamentally anti-imperialist. sorry about the dog. kamala harris is still doing imperialist stuff. supporting a genocide. she's not being strong enough on that. which makes her more right wing. i hope that clarify it is a little bit. but on social media, there is a

lot of misinformation. but you can dig through it if you are well educated on media literacy and paying attention to how things are said, how things are framed, distinguishing between opinions and facts. host: dianne says this on facebook. have to be careful with social media. not just in politics. there is l rts of misinformation out there. everything should be check. don't be a gullible gus. as far apotics it can easily lead to bias confirmation. or confirmation buy as. this is dennis in akron, ohio. republican. good morning. caller: yes. i definitely don't get my information from social media. but the information i have comes from the center of immigration study, which has been around since 1985, and they study how immigration affects the u.s. safety and well-being of the citizens. i'm just going to state a couple

facts that they put out there. at the end of year 2022, there was over 300,000 minors 20 ho crossed the border under joe biden. the reason this happened was when he opened up the border if they had children over 7 the families were turned away from different countries. so the parents would send their children up ahead of them. and these children were found to be working in factories in the united states, hyundai had them working. they had them working in chicken farms. the kids are being raped and murdered crossing the border on their own. parents are actually renting their children out. some kids were in three different states. once the parents got here they were supposed to gather up their children. they sold their children to men

who could cross the border without a child so they could get in with the asylum claim of having a family. it's just almost sickening when you read about some of this stuff. immigration increased by 1600% under joe biden the first year. people in guatemala for 15 years, 15 years have been building 10,000 square-foot homes in the highlands of guatemala. there is crime and violence in their cities just like there is crime and violence in our city. most of these people live in farmland. they are proud of their work. people in the united states i guess are -- they are getting paychecks. they are sending their children up to work in the u.s. and sending money back down there. they are building giant homes in china.

the middle east. host: all right. go to sal in long island, democrat, good morning. caller: hi, good morning. i'm going to comment about radio stations, the media out here on long island. they are targeting civilians. they have artificial intelligence that they are using to wage war against the civilians. for some reason it seems like whenever there is a republican president it's even worse. and they were operate -- they are operating out of wbab. and they are operating out of wrcn and shot rcn down but we really got to shut the a. pw-rb -- host: what do you mean they are targeting civilians? in what way? caller: they have artificial intelligence and they have satellites. i know it sounds crazy, but it's

not crazy. they could watch you, they could surveil you. they could watch you in your house. host: a radio station is watching you? caller: yes they can. yes, they can. i know it sounds crazy, but it's happening. host: it does sound crazy, sal. i agree. lorie in north carolina, independent. good morning. caller: good morning. sorry i walked away. good morning. i just wanted to say we have to remember not to buy into these conspiracy theories and sly leigh that is are spread so often. by anybody but mainly trump. the mainstream media they cover him so thoroughly. and they never fact check him. they never run anything underneath what he's saying saying, oh, you are saying kamala harris is dumb?

she graduated from howard. and all the lies that he spreads. we have to be careful to check the facts. i used to watch mainstream media. of course i'll always watch "washington journal" and c-span, you guys are amazing. but i have started to listen to the midas touch network because they report the facts. they are the largest independent news in the world. and they -- at least i'll say the united states. they are amazing. and they report the facts. and they welcome everybody. republicans who say, what's happening to my party, independents, democrats, whoever you are. they report the facts. and they cover everything. they don't just cover one candidate. so i just wanted to tell people there are options out there. you don't just have to watch cnn

or msnbc or abc. you can tune in to m.p.n. and get the facts. host: all right. jim in germantown, maryland, republican. good morning. caller: jim? host: go right ahead. caller: good morning. i have a suggestion. i think some morning you should go through the tenets of project 2025. because i have heard that so much that i finally went online and looked it up. and it's so inocuous. it seems like the things on there would be everybody would agree with it. and social media, thank god for

them. otherwise i would be left with "the washington post," "the new york times," and i used to live in poe keup i ask, new york -- pa keup i ask, new york, until a couple years ago. all the gannett papers of the the only one i used to read was the "new york post." and finally got tired of paying for it. if you look around and you can get all the news that you want. that's it. only thing you hear more often project 2025 is maybe january 6. host: that is online. project 2025 is online. you can just go to project

2025.org. you can read the whole thing. it's divided up into sections. if there is something specifically you are interested in, for instance we were talking about the department of education, if you click on that you can read the section on that and look at that on your own. alan in michigan, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. i just have a couple things to say. i think that social media is strictly entertainment purposes only. and i don't think that the elections that's coming up, don't think it has anything to do with policies or anything like that because america has been going through what has bee. there is nothing new to solve in america. we can just do things better. but this movement that's going on now with the maga movement is the most dangerous things we

face. once we get by this and conquer that thing, it will give other nations the strength to see what democracy really is. after all this is america. we did save the world in world war ii. now we are fighting the same people we fought in germany. they are here. they are undermining our country. and i don't understand how that movement gets so much love from christians who are supposedly -- that vote for everything they hate. if they are christians they are supposed to hate a liar, obvious he's that. they are supposed to hate someone that cheats somebody. they are supposed to hate adultery. but they seem to love what they hate. and i wonder what is it behind that? and that's just me. i hope america votes.

i hope we do away with the maga movement. and get back to solving america's problems and becoming great. thank you. host: michael four oaks, north carolina, republican. hey, michael. caller: good morning. host: how have you been? caller: well, a lot has gone on, hasn't it, in a month. host: yep. a lot can happen in a month in american politics. caller: well, yes, ma'am. and i'm very excited about the new campaign twist. i think it's going to be a spirited campaign on both parties. i'm really looking forward to the debate. i'm excited that vice president harris is in the race. host: are you going to vote for her? have you decided? or are you going to wait and see? caller: no. i have not decided. i think i've got some time. and the debate's going to help that. i have not decided, no, ma'am. i'm a republican. and i would like to vote

republican. but i'm excited that we have a woman vice president that's running for president. i really am. because i support amy klobuchar and i'm a republican. so i tell you what, i haven't seen get why in a while. if you tell her i said hi. i have been trying to catch her. i think she's been working in the evening. you have a great day, america. host: kenneth in tampa, florida, independent line. caller: yes. good morning. good morning. how are you? host: good. caller: yes. a few calls back a gentleman said he believes social media is for entertainment. i support that. just like anything you don't even know what is the news anymore. just like every time people call in, you just say republicans or democrats. or it's them democrats or them

republicans. they are getting their information from social media. but at the end of the day, mimi, to throw in a twist, a gentleman talked about project 25. i read it and it's one thing that i would like for you guys to do is, in the project 25 there is a clause that says if you go to private school you don't have to register for selective service. so who are sending people to 3r50eu69 school? which people? but they can be exempt from selective service. another thing, too, about three, four years ago i had called in and still be calling and ask, ask anyone that supports trump, name a time frame when america was great for everyone. i mean what decade? what century? what time frame? and last thing is you guys do a super job. we get to hear all these voice from around the country.

and yesterday a gentleman called in and said kamala harris and colored people. who is colored people? you see that mindset that people in 2024 still have from the jim crow era. colored people. thank you. host: tennessee, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. how you doing. host: ok. caller: i'd like to ask people to think about what things were like four years ago. we were 1,000 people a day were dying. and our cities were all shut down. i think we forget that. within two weeks of biden taking office, he had free vaccines out here in the small town in tennessee with the army at the fair grounds administering it for free. america is not in such bad shape. it wasn't great under trump. and i wasn't people to remember that.

i thought that the trump supporters were patriots. thought of themselves as patriots. i wanted to ask them a couple questions sincerely. i have some friends who are trump fangs and i talk to them in a calm manner. last time i talked to one of them i asked if it bothered him to see photographs of our documents, federal documents, federal documents that should be in the archives piled in bathrooms next to toilets. and he said, what are you talking about? what bathroom? and he was not aware of that. so i think that the trump fans aren't getting the information if you watch truth social just because the name truth is in it doesn't mean it's true. even his fans should know that he's i guess pretty much a habitual liar. and i think we should think about that. and i wonder if they realize that -- wonder if they heard him say that once he's elected

you'll never have to vote again. do they know that? do they know they are supporting a dictator? host: bill in lewis center, ohio, republican. good morning. caller: good morning. i just wanted to get in on -- i have heard some of these other guys. they were talking about how people in private schools don't have to go into the draft. because they are rich. that's not true. my parents were no means rich but i was raised in a private school. i went to a catholic school. lady just got through saying about documents next to the bathroom. does it bother her that they found documents next to -- in a garage. from when he was senator. shouldn't even have had those documents. the president can do that. a senator cannot.

i have been seeing a lot about all this anti-see met seufpl. it's bothered me that the palestinian people haven't realized that they are being used as pawns from iran. it's basically they are just cannon fodder. they are getting upset with israel for retaliating when they should be getting upset with iran for initiating it to begin with. that's where it should flow back to. and i'm a middle class person. my paychecks are way down since biden took office with his policies because one person said it's not about the policies. it absolutely is about the policies. host: when you say your paycheck is way down, are you making less now? or is it that you are spending more? caller: both. i'm making less and i'm having

to spend more on food, gas. host: why are you making less if you don't mind me asking? caller: they cut the hours. host: ok. because they didn't need as mans so they cut everybody's hours? caller: correct. i'm in transportation and logistics. and people are starting to purchase less. host: all right. and kia in las vegas, independent line, good morning. caller: good morning, how are you. host: good. caller: ok. i just have a few things. i think social media has its time and place. if you know when you are looking for. i personally don't watch any tv media other than i watch c-span anti-congress at hearings -- and the congressional hearings. i don't feel like any of the information is accurate so i read everything. then i follow some independent people. but people keep calling in and they talk about trump. and they say all these things.

it's things they have heard from the media. i feel like people are sometimes woefully ignorant and don't do the research themselves. like harris and walz they have no private sector experience at all. she has no policy to run on. poverty has doubled under biden-harris. that's according to the u.s. census. from the federal government website. where i get a lot of my information. i just don't understand when people get so caught up in their feelings instead of voting for what's best for their family. and why there is just so much hatred. i do feel like there is a lot of censorship and one-sidedness. as an independent i see bothi dn independent as a researcher and people are shocked because they don't know the information because the media doesn't put it out there. host: all right, that is it for this segment. more to come.

we will be joined by kyle kondik , managing editor of university of virginia's "sabato's crystal ball," we will talk about the changes they have made to their ratings. later, confessor jeffrey bloodworth discusses the role of rural and rustbelt voters in this campaign cycle. we'll be right back. ♪ >> hello, i'm susan swain. campaign 2020 four has evolved in some unexpected ways and from now until election day c-span promises you unfiltered coverage of the candidates as they battle to win the white house and congress. you may not know that c-span is a private company that operates without a dime of government money and like many media organizations we have been impacted by cord cutting. this summer we are asking for

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the courts, campaigns, and more from the world of politics all at your fingertips. you can also stay current with the latest episodes of " washington journal," and find scheduling information for our radio and podcasts. c-span now is available at the apple store and google play. scan the qr code to download it for free today or visit our website, c-span.org/c-span now. your front row seat to washington anytime, anywhere. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back to "washington journal," we are joined now by kyle kondik, the managing editor of "sabato's crystal ball." welcome to the program. your latest analysis says that in the few weeks since vice president harris became the democratic nominee, the electoral map has been reset. what do you mean by that? guest: i think that trump has

taken an advantage in the race against joe biden in the first debate. the numbers didn't change a ton but you have to remember that biden scheduled the debate to improve that position and his position got worse. we and others had made trump into a bit of a favorite prior to biden getting out and harris coming in. harris has stabilized things and sort of refocused the attention of the race on six or seven key swing states that were developed -- decided by three points or less in 2000 20. michigan, pennsylvania, wisconsin, georgia, nevada, arizona. so you know, prior to harris getting in we were talking about from winning new hampshire or minnesota but the map is now focused on those six or seven key strict -- key states now, a top up -- a tossup election like we have become accustomed to. host: let's talk about one of

those states. georgia was leaning republican and now it's a tossup. why the change? guest: basically the harris polling in georgia, trump is still probably marginally ahead in that state but her polling in that state has been much better. one of the weaknesses for biden in polls that i don't think were going to manifest on election day was that trump was making significant inroads with black voters and georgia has a significant black voter population. that might've been a part of the reason his numbers were so weak in that state but harris seems to be shoring that up a little bit. again, so georgia kind of moves back into the leading role that it had in the 2020 election. host: so, how do you make the ratings? what factors do you consider? guest: ultimately there are lots of different models for projections out there where the polls change and they change the ratings. we treated more qualitatively, taking the polls into account,

candidate decisions, our own sense of things, all sorts of stuff and when we feel it's time to move the rating, we move the rating and that's what we decided to do last week. host: a couple of other changes for minnesota and new hampshire. guest: you could argue that with walz as the running mate it helped in minnesota. the jury is out as to whether running mates actually matter in terms of having a home state of effect. but minnesota and new hampshire there were polls showing that things were really close and look, if trump were to win the national popular vote, biden was the winner of it by 4.5 in 2020. let's say that trump was the winner in 2002. that would be a five or six point shift in 2020 and suddenly the states that he was the winner of buy 6, 7, 8 points, those states would be like tossup's but with harris coming

in and stabilizing things, you would expect minnesota and new hampshire to be like it was in 2020 and not being credible targets. host: the harris campaign is hoping that walz will be influential in states like wisconsin and michigan. any evidence of that? what do you think? host: i don't really think so. j.d. vance is also from the midwest and there was an argument that he might have a regional effect, but to the extent that vice presidents matter electorally, you can sometimes argue that maybe they are worth a point or two in their home state. it's never been demonstrated that vice presidential candidates are sort of worth more in a regional setting. so, maybe walz or vance is a good messenger or maybe not for certain parts of the country but i don't expect them to change the calculus much. host: have you seen a change? guest: i have not. walz was just announced a week

ago and there's very little out there in terms of how people perceive him. a couple of polls show that his favorability is broadly a little more positive than negative. vance has been around for like a month now. his favorability is much like trump's, net negative, minus nine or 10. we will see what happens but i think it is too early to tell. host: if you would like to join our conversation with kyle kondik, call us. lines are by party. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. this is what you said in "sabato's crystal ball," "if harris is improvement -- an improvement in the midwest, she seems to have opened up the sunbelt." explained what you mean, what other states? guest: we are talking north carolina, georgia, one of the

things in the polling is that biden was consistently lagging in those states and it was rare to see him leading, down by a point or two. the numbers we have seen since harris came in have shown that the states might be more like ties or even harris slightly ahead depending on the polls you are looking at. biden i think was very much dependent on michigan, pennsylvania, wisconsin nebraska . that would get him to exactly 270 if he held on to what he had into doesn't 20 but lost nevada, arizona, and georgia while it was happening. harris seems more competitive in those places than biden was very look at, democratic presidential candidates in recent vintage, even in the years they have lost , have carried states like wisconsin, pennsylvania, michigan. i would be surprised if she lost any of those states if she won the presidency. they seem to be more credible options now in terms of improving as much of the map as

possible harris to win the election. we are still talking about the competitive states exclusively being ones carried in 2020. north carolina is the one possible exception. that was the closest win for trump by a little more than a point and a half. host: talking about the senate races, there are some very close ones. montana, what's going on there? guest: trump was just out there hoping to shore up tim sheehy. jon tester is going for his fourth term in the senate. he has 13 pretty competitive elections in 2006, 2012, and 2018. that's the story with the map overall, the senate is cyclical. go back to six years each time and democrats have had a number of good elections on that map. the last time they had a bad one was 1994, the classic republican wave year when republicans took

the house and the senate. it's been a long time. democrats were playing almost exclusively defense. west virginia, the state of joe manchin, already on, trump is going to carry that state probably where there is not as much ticket splitting is there used to be. you can go down the line, what are the most competitive races? montana, ohio, michigan, nevada, pennsylvania, wisconsin. democrats would have to win all of them just to try to salvage a tie in the senate. maybe democrats could credibly compete for texas or florida, current republican held seats, but it's all democratic events. so there are avenues for republicans to win the senate but one positive thing i will say for democrats in the senate right now is that setting west virginia aside, they haven't really wrapped up any of these other races and there has been very limited polling in montana.

there was one from emerson college last week that had she he up two over tester. democrats leading in the other races, though it doesn't mean that they are over or anything. so you know, it's not over but the republicans have so many avenues where the map just looks good for them. host: has the shakeup on the democratic ticket change the calculus at all? guest: well, the polling would say no because democratic senate candidates generally do a lot better than biden was doing. one thing we might see is that if harris improves, she might start catching up to those candidates and ultimately in this era you would expect with senate and presidential results to be fairly similar, though there will be some limited number of people splitting their tickets. it's not like it was a generation or two ago where we would talk about 20 or 30 point differences. you don't really see that like

you used to. i'm of the belief that if the presidential campaign sets the tone for everything else, a rising tide lifts all ships. if harris is doing better than biden, by definition it has to be good for democrats in the senate and house races. just again, if you are not expecting a ton of ticket splitting, if harris is just doing better, it raises the floor for the down ballot races. look, we are -- republicans should probably win the senate. it's not guaranteed or anything. the presidential race is really close and i think the house is, too. host: what's going on in the house? guest: a relatively small universe of competitive races. the vast majority of those seats are safe they republican or democratic. there are a lot of different reasons for that.

you know, the overall playing field might be bigger than those 19 tossup's. we are probably talking about three dozen races at most that are really going to get a lot of attention and again it's probably going to be less than that. some of the battleground seats are interspersed around the swing states with a couple of open seats in michigan that are close to competitive that democrats are defending. some in pennsylvania and arizona. a lot of the other key races are in nonpresidential swing states. california, seats that biden carried and have republican representation in congress. same with new york state. it's not going to be total overlap between battlegrounds and house battlegrounds. republicans are slightly ahead, 211 seats safe likely leaning republican. those 19 tossup's, the house will probably go the same way as the presidential given the ties,

but you could see a world where trump wins the presidency and democrats get 220 seats in the house or something. it's that closely contested that you might see a split outcome. if the presidency's flipped to the republicans with two changes in opposite directions, there is no historical precedent for that in the current two-party history of the united states going back to the dawn of the republicans right before the civil war. host: really? guest: having it flip in different directions, you know, the presidency going from democrat or republican, the house going from republican to democratic. that's part of the reason i kind of don't think it will happen, there's no historic precedent. guest: all right, let's talk to john in virginia. caller: what do you think about

the young people? are they pumped out? seems to me there are so many young people coming up right now to vote, to go with it right now, but i want to note that other people were running in the united states, picking up still behind. guest: the youth vote gets a lot of attention, even the really older voters are sort of a bigger part of the electorate and are a more reliable part of the electorate. one of the sort of things going on in the polls, and still is to some degree, biden was the winner of the 18 to 25 vote. there will polls showing trump at leading there, which i never believed. but there was, there was weakness provide an amongst young people. that seems to have fixed itself to some extent but harris thing on board. it's also fair to say that if you dig the democratic crosstabs

on these polls, they will differ widely around the marginal subgroups. but you could find polls where harris is doing better than biden or you could find polls where she's doing much worse. sometimes it's probably just more helpful to not worry so much about what the subgroups say, but look more at the top line number and what the entire electorate is saying about a given race. even back in 2020, biden was clearly not the choice of the youngest voters in the democratic primary, that was bernie sanders. even on super tuesday when he was wrapping up the nomination, he had a lot of weakness with young voters. harris, i think, just has to be a better candidate, you could hardly find a democrat weaker in that demographic. but you know, there is a thought out there that particularly young men are maybe a bit harder

to get for democrats than in the past, younger women being very democratic. that is just something to watch going forward. i do think that the democratic young boater problem is correcting itself to some degree. host: in we are taking your call? your calls for jeffrey bloodworth -- calls for kyle kondik for the next 25 minutes or so. jimbo, bakersfield, california, asking you this by text, can you rememb aresidential election changing so quickly? if the election were today, do you think that harris would win the electoral college vote? guest: i don't have a great feel for who is favored. i know that's a bold position for an election handicapper, but i do -- i kind of want to see more with harris. if i were on the democratic

side, something i would struggle is -- with his biden was a decent candidate for the key northern battlegrounds and was able to get that extra little percent or two to get him over the top, particularly in kind of white working-class areas. i'm wondering if harris can ultimately do that. but you know there were polls over the weekend from "the new york times" that had harris doing pretty well in the industrial north, winning in those three key states. tossup. not a bold thing to say, but it's where i'm at right now. and then i'm blanking on the first part of the question. host: has a presidential election candidate ever change so much? guest: you haven't seen a candidate wipe out like this since johnson retired in 68 and that was in the midst of the primary season. you've got to remember that the primaries didn't even matter that much back then.

humphrey becoming the nominee, he didn't even compete in the primaries, got 1% or 2% of the vote, but had all the impacted support in chicago. so, it was not a moderate convention. also it was april when johnson got out. this was much later than the actual calendars here. i wouldn't call myself an expert on this election or anything, but in 1992, ross perot was running pretty rough, looked like he was going to drop out and then came back in. strange situation, i'm thinking of that now, that might be a good example of a very topsy-turvy kind of election. you had a real credible third-party candidate, though he didn't wind up winning any electoral votes, but he did get 20% of the vote. host: senate race in arizona, kyrsten sinema retiring. what's happening there?

host: kari lake was -- guest: kari lake nationally has become a star but has weaknesses at home. then you have room in gallego, a left-wing member of the u.s. house, democratic nominee, he's been able to run a pretty good race. the polling that we have suggests that he is doing better in the senate race than a harris is doing in the presidential contest. that could be a state where you could see him do better than harris. now back in 2000 20 when mark kelly first got elected to the senate, he was routinely doing better than biden in polls but at the end of the day he was only a winner by a couple of points, biden was the winner of the state by a few tenths of a point, so not a huge difference but you could imagine a world where maybe he squeaks it out by a point or two or harris wins by

a point or two. talking about republican targets, that's one of them, though i think in their heart of hearts they wish they had a different candidate there. host: brad, international falls, republican, good morning. caller: if he believes the most unpopular vice president in history of the united states became america's sweetheart in two weeks, how in the world does he think that she is going to get elected? guest: it's interesting, her popularity was quite poor when she was not, you know, not leading the ticket. her favorability and approval rating was like, you know, her un-favorability was like 15 or 16 points higher than her approval and favorability. disapproval and on favorability was over 50%, the numbers very much mirroring biden. what we have seen since she

entered the race is that when the role of a person changes, perceptions can change quite quickly. another person, an example, donald trump. in 2000 15 when he first got into the presidential race, there were polls that because of course he wasn't a political figure but he was a national figure and his favorability, one hole i was looking at yesterday, abc news had his favorability at like 15% nationally. his unfavorable ability was at 70%. within a month of him becoming the presidential nominee, his favorability was in the 30's and his on favorability was still 60. still poor, those numbers were poor throughout the campaign, didn't prevent him from winning. but him switching from being a political gadfly to being an actual candidate changed numbers quite a lot and it goes to show for the future that if we are looking at hypothetical

candidates who turn into real candidates, the numbers can change quite quickly and that is what you seems harris. another important note on the favorability question is that harris, her favorability is like minus four, minus five, not that bad really for a modern candidate. trump's is better now, to. it's like minus eight, where it had generally been like -12, -13, particularly before the rnc and the assassination attempt. that has reduced the number of double haters, people with an unfavorable view of both candidates. that was a huge feature of the 2016 race where a huge percentage of the electorate had a negative view on both candidates, and it is still a feature of this race but it is arguably smaller. guest: james is next in collins,

mississippi. caller: to your guest, i want to ask a simple question. please let me know when you are going to cut me off, because who i feel -- hello? host: go ahead. caller: i feel that younger people are not being looked at, 18 to 30 years old, and women are not been predicted to have a push. but i believe that this, this race would not be close. i don't know why the media is coming on to say all of this stuff about the election calling it a close race. it's not going to be close. believe me, it's not going to be close. this is just the beginning of something. but why when they start talking about all of these different aspects of who is going to win and lose, why do you all -- what would it take for people who

live and shop in those family housing urban development communities in this country, a lot of these people, they live in these complexes like where we see things going on with a different point of view. the thing i want to ask you, why do you all, why do you keep disrespecting these young people and women? this is a woman and young people race today. not all of this stuff you all talking about. whoever get the most young people, whoever get the most women, that's going to decide the election. it's not going to be close. can you explain that to me? guest: as i mentioned earlier, young people don't turn out the way older folks do. maybe someday we will have an election, maybe it will be this one, where younger voter turnout spikes. relatively speaking youth voter turnout was decent in 2020,

although i guess turnout was just very high in 2020. and of course there is a generally speaking younger voters are more left-leaning, more democratic. older voters generally speaking a bit more conservative and republican leaning. some polling indicates that when biden was in the race he was leading with senior citizens. that was another number i found difficult to believe given how we have seen those voters behave in recent elections. as for the criticism about saying the race is going to be close, you know, there were times in 2016 and 2020 where it looked like the democrats were going to win by a big margin. you know, what ends up happening is we are in a very closely divided country and these races have a way of getting close again. even when biden was at his lowest point back in july, i

didn't think that trump was any huge favorite, he could coalesce things eventually where his performance had become poor and you had that optimum ability around where harris had in the short-term. we haven't had a double-digit winner in the national popular vote since reagan in 84 and five of the last six with 2008 had been pretty closed and competitive. we have had a couple of elections where the popular vote winners didn't win the electoral college. one of these days maybe it is this one but i don't think the data really points to that. i think that if you base those poles on the numbers we have now and the recent history, it's likely we would expect a close race. host: this is from x, ohio has a gerrymandering board on the

ballot. does this come into play? guest: ohio has a very convoluted redistricting system. basically the voters approved it, it was designed as a kind of bipartisan compromised and it hasn't worked. republicans controlling the state government were able to kind of win the battle, effectively, over the supreme court imposing massive map overlay. the maps are not as good for republicans as they maybe could have been if there was no limiting redistricting power but that is what happened there. so there is this effort they are now led by marie o'connor, the longtime chief justice republican elected to the state supreme court, she has become a real critic of gerrymandering. so, there is a proposal to create a redistricting, nonpartisan redistricting commission in ohio similar to what's in michigan, for instance. that's going to be on the ballot

in november and if it passes you would expect ohio to have more competitive congressional and state legislative maps, though you would expect republicans to win more seats than democrats, but given where ohio is right now they might not be as lopsided as they currently are. host: joanne is in ashburn, virginia. hi, joanne. caller: hi, i just wanted to say, two callers ago, the young people, like, you know what, i called on the wrong line, to be honest. host: ok, just call us back on the right line, ok? we will take your call. donald, capitol heights, maryland, go ahead. caller: good morning, how you doing? host: good. caller: i'm calling to ask one simple question. i'm a vietnam veteran and i don't understand how we can allow a person who is a draft dodger to be in charge of our military.

i think someone should say that donald trump is a draft dodger in should not be able to command our military. thank you for taking my call. guest: you know, the topic of military service has been prominent in the election lately , not necessarily for trump but i think that that is sort of what you are talking about, something that comes up it is a point that democrats make about trump. tim walz, the governor of minnesota, the running mate of kamala harris, served in the army national guard for more than 20 years. but he has had to correct certain details, certain things he has said about his -- about his rank when he retired. also, kind of seeming to suggest that he might have been in a combat zone when he wasn't actually. i will say that there have been

a lot of republicans attacking him over this and we will see how it ultimately develops, but you know, the journal editorial page, not known for being friendly to democrats, they wrote about this on thursday and friday and said they didn't think that the attacks on walz were compelling over his military service. i know the call was about trump, but that general topic of military service has come up around walz since he was picked. host: does it seem to be changing anyone's minds? guest: like i said earlier, there isn't any good polling at about how people perceive walz. a couple of things, generally better than j.d. vance, but it is too early to say. as to whether these questions about military service and that kind of thing, as to whether that matters, again, i think the jury is sort of out on it. host: all right, this question comes from jim in north

carolina. do the primary losses of the squad members foretell anything? guest: i don't necessarily think they do. part of the reason that corey booker -- that corey newman lost , he lost to a candidate that was running a little bit closer to the center. those candidates were also backed by a pack. -- a pac. i think that they both had problems specific to them in some instances. it's also interesting that apac went after them very hard, but the attacks were not about israel or gaza, it was about cori bush and certain legislation she voted against the president on. jamaal bowman had that embarrassing episode where he pulled the fire alarm during i think it was a shutdown fight last fall. there were some other kind of just like personality questions

about bush. they had their own vulnerabilities and came in over the top. other members of the squad are doing fine, basically. elana omar in minnesota, the fifth district, she's been attacked independently in the past in their hasn't been the buzz over this one like bush and bowman. we will see where that goes tonight. let's talk to keenan -- host: let's talk to keenan in west virginia. caller: good morning. host: morning. caller: why do the democrats always make their issues caller based? -- color based? guest: look, i think that democrats, you know, i just -- first of all, democrats have a more diverse political coalition. the republican coalition is getting a little more diverse, but the democrats are the more

racially diverse party. they are also just more concerned about using government power, essentially, to rectify past wrongs in terms of racism and that sort of thing and republicans will come back and say that hey the solutions you are proposing are not going to solve the problem in there is a constant back and forth about it . i think that probably what you're are talking about in some ways has to deal with what the coalition of the party actually is. host: this question is from a text and sarah -- is in a text from sarah. has the republican party -- split withaga republicans on one side and a link and republicans on the others? can you delineate? it seems similar to the 1860 party split. guest: so, i think that the sort of non-maga republicans are out

of the party or just kind of a small minority within the party. you could argue that the nikki haley vote in the primary represented that sort of old-school republicanism, but it's not that she was in any danger of defeating trump. hailey is probably most promising in the early going. trump still didn't win that race by a little over 10 points. you have seen that a number of people, it used to be prominent in the republican, like william kristol was involved in the old weekly standard, which was a kind of the -- in some ways the -- the biggest cheerleader for the judge -- george w. bush era foreign policy. he's not really in the party anymore and a lot of people were like him. rank and file republicans were generally, you expect trump to have pretty high party loyalty within the election.

i will say that over the course of what you could call the trump era, there have been a lot of shifts within the party coalition. so some people who i think used to be republican voters and identified as republicans are basically now democrats or cross pressured to vote democratic for president. you see those kinds of voters particularly in the affluent sun belt, highly suburban and educated areas, like northern virginia or phoenix. meanwhile, donald trump has brought a lot of people who used to be democrats, particularly white working-class people in the midwest, into the republican party. there has been this split within the party, but the people who were on basically the wrong side of the realignment within their own parties, i don't really think of them as being a part of those parties anymore. host: linda is calling us from

pennsylvania. democrat. hi, linda. you are on. caller: yes, hello, i have to lower my tv. my name, my name is linda lassen. sorry, linda from pennsylvania. thank you, c-span. i'm calling because i saw what i think was a c-span special about j.d. vance being interviewed on tv. he spoke about his, his being in the military and his position was as a special operations person. j.d. vance spoke himself that he did not see fighting and that type of action. so, for him to call mr. walz out

for his service to the country, it seems like neither of them saw action. it makes me feel like j.d. vance is not -- doesn't have solidarity with his other, with his other, his others that are in the service, whatever, type of service that is to our country. thank you. host: you already talk about military service, so we will go to ava in georgia, independent line. caller: yes, good morning. i really value the commentary and analysis that the gentleman brings. i'm calling because it seems that we are in a particular moment as it relates to our country's consensus when we need to come to understand that when you look at the agenda that we

need, which is health care, we need retirement security, we need an education system, we have to have a structural budget balanced. it appears that we all agree. sir, could you please give us the context about how it is that the polling shows that many people agree that because as all people, a humanity, we need a health system that operates and has to be paid for, and education system that operates and has to be paid for, it seems that the polling shows that 60% to 80% of the people receive those things and need those things and want those things. how do we then have a political system that has to come to polarization around the

religious component with a judiciary that then puts sex on top of those policy appropriation agendas we have with the government bureaucracy? can you tell us how it is that the polling -- what does the polling show? what you are speaking of feels like a proposal, a kind of opinionated thing, but we in the country on the fifth of november are going to have to decide on the vision, the actual budget that is going to provide the policies, the laws that will create for us a quality of life. host: got it. guest: look, i think you are right, the divides in american politics are probably more about culture than specific policy positions. someone like j.d. vance is, whatever you think of him, interestingly different from the republican party mainstream. you could say that he hasn't necessarily voted that way, but

he certainly not like paul ryan on the size of government, who was like a classic supply-side conservative and was very much interested in shrinking government, shrinking deficit, shrinking the amount of money that we spend and whatnot. vance has some of that, but i think he's a bit different in that regard. i think it's also pretty common to see an polling -- you see this in statewide ballot issues, sometimes things like raising the minimum wage or something, that's like a democratic party identified policy idea, generally speaking. it will sometimes pass in a red state overwhelmingly, but that doesn't mean that that state isn't otherwise republican in their partisan voting. yeah, there is broad agreement that there are issues in american life around this with real differences between the parties as to how they want to tackle those things and whether they see a role for government in all of that.

particularly when i talk to people from other countries and they ask about the differences between the parties seeming similar to me, and i said do you really follow american politics? there are a lot of different visions and proposals for the country, a lot of those beliefs are on policy. ron --host: ron, independent line. caller: it's nice to talk to you, i like the way you talk. i'm looking at the bible for the republican party, 2025, heritage , that's the basis it seems for them moving forward, to change and have a complete reconstruction of the country in terms of the constitution. number two, what do you think --

where do you think women will make an impact in voting this year? i think it's time we get a female in their who has the ability, like harris, and i'm not necessarily leaning towards her, i'm just looking at her platform, but at this point in time i think it's time that we begin to get the male out of the political system and let women begin to use some of their knowledge to run this country. the last thing is -- do polls really justify voting in the direction of a lot of people, including democrats and republicans? if you could address those three things, i would appreciate it. thank you. guest: to go in order, you mentioned project 2025, a pretty conservative blueprint the heritage foundation put together. obviously, the trump campaign sees it as a liability. they have tried to distance

themselves from specific proposals. frankly, taking vance as a running mate, he is kind of close to the world of heritage and all of that. so, if they want to distance themselves from that, vance may not have been a great choice in terms of doing that. but that document really plays very much into the whole democratic campaign against the republican ticket. as for women voters, generally speaking, the electorate in any given state has slightly more women than men. there are actuarial table reasons as to why that's the case. there are a few exceptions like maybe north dakota or alaska, where you have got like a lot of younger men going into those states to work in resource extraction kinds of jobs, but generally there will be slightly more women than men in those states, slightly bigger gender gap that would exist even if the republican nominee was a woman

and the democratic nominee was a man or the reverse, you can see this in other races. women are generally more left-leaning on the issues. again, certainly not all women, but on average men are more conservative and more republican leaning. there has been this gender gap in american politics that has been present for several decades now and i don't think it is going anywhere. as for the polling question, you know, i think it's kind of -- we get asked this about polls all the time. i think it's kind of amazing that polls do as well as they do in terms of measuring voter sentiment because it is such a difficult task to get a representative sample, particularly if you are calling people on the phone, you have to make tens of thousands of calls to get the kind of sample that you want. and again don't expect polls to be perfect, it's not a fair standard but they generally give us a good sense of what's going

on. polls were important in this monumental change of an election with joe biden leaving the race and kamala harris coming in, because without polls showing the dire position of the president, it would have been much harder for democrats to make that argument for him to leave. i got in, right call or wrong call, the polls were very much a part of it. host: to that point, leon in new jersey is asking about your track record in predictions. guest: myself, i've been at this since 2012. we did really well in 2012 and 2000 20. not so hot in 2016. not uncommon for people in my position. down ballot we have done good, though the house has been a real challenge. the republicans did better than expected in 2000 20. democrats did better than expected in 2022. you know, we have our hits and misses like anyone else.

host: all right, that is jeffrey bloodworth at -- that is kyle kondik from the university of virginia center for politics and the author of the book "the long red thread." thank you for joining us. guest: thank you. host: more of your calls after the break open for form. numbers are republican, (202) 748-8001, democrat, (202) 748-8000, and independents, (202) 748-8002. later in the program we will be talking about the role of rural and rustbelt voters this campaign cycle with professor jeffrey bloodworth. >> saturday, american history tv feature notable convention speeches. watch notable remarks from nominees and other speakers over the past decades. barack obama gives a keynote

speech supporting john kerry for president at the 2004 democratic convention. >> this year, this election, we are going to reaffirm our values and commitments, see how we are measuring up to the legacy of our forebears. fellow americans, democrats, republicans, independents, tonight we have more work to do. >> mitt romney speaks to the 2008 delegates after the strong showing of john mccain. >> we strengthen our people and the economy when we preserve and promote opportunity. opportunity is what let's hope become reality. opportunity expands when there is excellence in choice in education. when taxes are lower. when every citizen has affordable health insurance and when constitutional feds are preserved. >> watch historic speeches

saturdays on c-span two. watch the live campaign 2024 coverage of the democratic national convention aust 19 through the 22nd. you can watch the republican national convention any time on the website. >> if you ever miss any of c-span's coverage, you can find at any time at c-span.org. videos of key hearings, debates, and other events featuring markers guiding you towards interesting and newsworthy highlights that appear on the right-hand side of your screen when you hit play on select videos. this makes it easy to quickly get an idea of what was debated and decided in washington. school -- scroll through four points of interest. >> "washington journal" continues.

host: welcome back. we are in open forum and will go straight to the calls. new york is first, on the line for democrats. ray, good morning. lost ray. andrea, texas, independent. caller: hello, texas. thank you, thank you for taking my call. i wanted to address the individual about religion, talking about abortion and things like that. i wanted to remind him that even god gives us all freedom of choice. i think it's ironic that these men think that it's ok to tell women how and what to do with our bodies. then i also wanted to say that it's really frustrating to hear a lot of these callers that is not educated. i think it's just like when you come in to be a citizen, we should have some sort of litmus

test for individuals who want to vote. that way people would know who the person or who is involved with i guess how much power the president can have as opposed to people who run for these offices so that they don't be blaming individuals who don't have no power over things that they want to blame for. all right. brenda is in manito act, wisconsin. republican. caller: yes, i just want to -- i hope you can inform the public that project 2025 is a think tank paper. it's not the republican platform, it's not trumps platform. when you encourage people to look it up and read it, you are giving the impression that this is a republican written paper by the republican written paper by the republican party at this time. and that it is trump's paper, which it is not.

i would encourage that when people call in, if you say please read project 2020 five, this is a democratic talking point. thank you. host: homer, shreveport, louisiana, democrat. caller: i'm a vietnam era veteran and i wanted to say that i think it's about time for the women to really take the show from these old white men that have messed it up long enough. so, i think it is time for the ladies, to give them a shot. the country is in disarray. appreciate you. later. host: all right, we are in open forum for the next 20 minutes. republicans, (202) 748-8001. the democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002.

vincent, you are next. gaithersburg. caller: i was hoping we could go back, miss mimi, look up there was a lady who called. i'm a disabled veteran. she said that vice president jd vance did not serve. she said she got that information out of c-span, out of your archives and all of them. i look -- i don't look at your archives anymore -- caller: she said he didn't serve in combat, that he was a public affairs officer. he absolutely served in the military. caller: no, no, he served in combat. that's a small issue. it's not a small issue. host: i understand the difference in semantics. he was deployed to a war zone, but i think her point was that he wasn't in an active shooting

situation. but he absolutely deployed to a war zone. caller: may i'll say -- you all do this -- host: go ahead, i just wanted to clarify. caller: no, you did not clarify, you confused. still on the democratic pup talking point that this man did not serve. you still got your wrong point across. i've been watching c-span for a very long time. host: ok, go ahead and make the point you want to make. caller: and you are doing the same thing, trying to derail, trying to not let me -- host: paul, democratic line. caller: when president trump was running on his first term, there was a thing that we called unemployability at the v.a. and at that time they were going to cancel that, which a lot of veterans are disabled and cannot work, not 100%.

it allows them to draw a retirement pension. however, most of them are seniors. what happened was the votes came in they were not able to do it. can you talk more about social security and the v.a. benefits in terms of retirement? thank you. host: anne, waynesboro, pennsylvania, republican. good morning. caller: i have one question. been watching. lately i haven't been much into the politics but in the last three years i have not seen or heard of camille a harris doing anything. what has she done since she has been vice president? host: ok. kate, michigan, independent. good morning. caller: i just would like to

talk about a story i saw yesterday about project 2025 on "democracy now!" it was interesting. their work training videos that went along with us. one thing people need to realize when they say that trump is not associated with this is that the people who put it together are all from his administration. the people in the videos are from his administration. if you want to be frightened, go ahead and listen to these training videos, which i guess are available for us all to listen to now. that is one thing i wanted to point out. the other thing is i wish that c-span would do a program about the murder or killing of lincoln riley. because it is always brought up on this. i would like to know the story behind that. i would like to know what happened to the fellow that killed her. i think it was a man. get the back story of the outcome of that. that's all i have to say for now. thank you.

host: sandy, democratic line, massachusetts. good morning. caller: yes, i'm 81 years old and i believe that we need to listen to each other and are different thinking about the election and the candidates. i listen to as many television stations and newspapers as i can . i tried to get both sides. we are not doing that. the other thing, i would like to know if anyone can help me, where we can get training in listening to the other side and really trying to be objective as possible, if we want to vote for the right candidate that we feel will be the best person to govern the united states. thank you.

host: this is "the washington post," this headline, since june "agents have been targeting attacks coming against both presidential campaigns." caller: hi. thank you for taking my call. i wonder if any of these people thought of the issues we face as a country. inflation. people cannot make enough money to buy food, gas, everything is so high. we are heavily in debt. millions of illegal immigrants are getting more money than i make on social security. i believe in legal immigration,

but not illegal. and i don't know how they can let illegals vote. they are illegal people, and i thank you for your time. host: alan in little rock, arkansas. independent. good morning. caller: good morning. well, it is great to be on again . it once a month kind of a thing. just remembering, as i was on hold, my first call was back in the 1980's, and my first political thought that i think i can date back to was, as a kid, thinking, why are they calling him president kennedy? i thought you only would say president in association to

eisenhower. i'm just a kid. host: that was a long time ago, alan. caller: i thought president what with the name -- went with the name. so, high school debate team, college debate team, which led me to know that i have never won an argument in my life. so, i'm calling to wish a happy birthday, and would appreciate so much if you would help look up her online, youtube page. you have done that before for me. three other calls in the last six months. but her name is anna, from ukraine. and today is her birthday. so, happy birthday, anna from ukraine. and i'm calling to reach

president trump. i am a conservative, independent, and i have supported him for four years on twitter as just trying to support him in every way possible. so, i am wanting to reach president trump and ask him, truly, to support ukraine and listen to anna from ukraine. she is the most articulate spokesperson for, really, independence and freedom in the world, and i almost think they will qualify being our 51st state, because they are so much like we were as we started as a country. a retired history teacher, and ukraine is so much like america when we started.

so, i'm asking to invite anna on for a 30 minute segment, and -- host: alan, we will take that recommendation and hear from gregory in belleville, new jersey. caller: yes, good morning. how are you doing? anyway, i wanted to speak on, there is so much brainwashing. i'm getting tired of all of the stupidity in this country. host: about what, gregory? 1 yes -- caller: yes, i'm tired of the brainwashing and there are so many ignorant people. first of all, i want to speak on inflation. inflation is, note president of the united states can stop inflation. inflation, business can put a

price on anything. there is too many legalized crooks in this country. and big business runs this country. they are all stealing. it is part of the makeup of america. how do you rob the country, period? and nothing is going to change unless they are going to admit to themselves who they are, and they are not prepared for that. the propaganda in this country through the news media, running a game on them. trump creates a lot of hatred in this country, period. he is playing on that. and his people try to hide it, which is mostly made up of white folks.

taking us backwards to where, this game of america being great , there is no such thing. america has always been a conquering country. they are about greed. they are not going to change. they don't want to change. they want to keep control over the masses of people by spreading the propaganda they have in this country. it is so messed up, thinking about things that you have no control over. host: right, gregory. this is on fox eight live that says, president biden is visiting new orleans on tuesday for cancer moonshot event. it says that president biden is expected to announce a federal grant to help in the fight against cancer when he and first lady jill biden visit new orleans on tuesday. that is part of biden's cancer

moonshot initiative. we will have coverage of that event live today here on c-span. it starts at 4:30 p.m. on the network. also on our app and online. and joey is calling us from atlanta, republican. hi, joey. caller: good morning. i really want for all of your viewers and listeners to understand how important it is to be properly informed. there is so much misinformation, so many lies and confusion, and it is amazing how this country is just falling apart. our country is at a turning point. i really want people to understand how important it is to vote for people who have christian morals, christian values. this is what this country was built on, and we are so far away from those roots that it is literally destroying us. we are going to destroy each other because our morals are no

longer christian morals. we have to get back to the roots of what this country was built on. so many women and men have lost their lives protecting those rights, and we are literally destroying this country with the hate among each other. we are throwing stones at each other. there is one very important person once said, which one among us is sinless? let that person through the first stone. instead of trying to hate each other, let's build on each other. let's create love and unite us. let's get back to our christian values, because this country was built on christian values, and the longer we keep -- the more we keep fighting each other, we will destroy this country. america is going down the tubes

because we are no longer a christian nation. thank you. host: cheryl, nevada, california, independent line. caller: yes, i just wanted to say, and to the man who just said ukraine should be the 51st state of the united states, you might want to consider that in a way it might be because we are subsidizing the whole ukrainian economy and not just of your efforts. the civil service and other aspects of the ukrainian economy. we are doing that. that is not what i really called to talk about. what i wanted to say was that i think that people, no matter what caller they are -- color they are, that we should not allow ourselves to be caught up in hatred or personalities,

looking at people in politics just based on their color, or whether they are male or female, but pay attention to the policies and really tone down the rhetoric that has to do with hatred and camino, insulting people. no matter which side, you know, because it is not good. the only thing to come from that is terrible things. i think at this time so many people in this country have been suffering over the last four years because of the economy, with the effects of the pandemic. many people have become poor and needy, and many people who were formerly middle-class are not, and citizens, people who are citizens of this country, their

quality of life is going down. and for many people they are suffering. i live in california and i know about that. i think the future of society and its strengths and longevity, much of it has to do with how they treat the poor and needy. so, we should care for them. host: right, cheryl. this is bric in sebring, florida. democrat. caller: good morning, c-span. thanks for letting me speak. host: go right ahead, rick. caller: i want to talk about guns. especially military weapons. i think there should be public armories for citizens to put their military weapons in a public armory, and put a tracking device on them.

and have a receiver or something that beeps every time somebody in the neighborhood, or your school or church, has a device that will pick up the track and keep track of these military weapons. i can't believe they are not even talking about guns after that hernandez assassination attempt on the former president. you know, we don't get rid of these guns, there is going to be the next time there is an insurrection everybody's going to be ready to shoot. i think that is just horrendous, that nobody is even talking about don's. it is like it disappeared. i don't know where this country is going to come up but i can assure you that the next time there is a result it is not going to be without military weapons.

and civilians should not have them. host: patty in mississippi, republican. caller: hi. i originally left mississippi. i am now in georgia, me and my husband, because mississippi has been neglected. we have been underfunded and it is very difficult. me and my husband, we packed up our two dogs. now we are in georgia. host: it is in north carolina, independent line. caller: yes, ma'am. good morning. as an independent i just want to hear more policy from kamala harris. i know she is the number two in the biden administration and supported all of his policies. but i would love to hear from her on what her policies are.

and also the changes that she has made. i heard a little about some of the things she is up for. i'm just curious, why has she done a 180 now? is she still going to follow the biden policies? where is she going to make a different call? i have heard nothing from her so far, so i don't know if we're going to have another one of those elections like we had in 2020, where she is going to be a basement person instead of speaking. because she is handed the position. the position was given to her, and she was nonelected. but she was chosen. she was chosen for that position by biden and the democratic party. i would love to hear more.

her poll numbers are looking great, but she has not spoke. that is what is getting me. i would love to hear her talk. i would love to hear her on what she thinks. like i said, what she has going against her now, she has the last 3.5 years under that administration, but if she is going to be her own person and be the boss i would really love to hear some of her speak. thank you for your time. host: governor tim walz will be addressing workers at the convention in los angeles today. we will also have live coverage of that. that starts at 5:00 p.m. today on c-span and on c-span now, our app, and on c-span.org, online. and here is freddie. good morning. caller: good morning, c-span.

thank you for taking my call. first i would like to state that the man that is running for president, donald trump, i am not a vietnam veteran, but i am an army veteran that has a problem with anybody that criticizes people that serve in any capacity. donald trump don't care about anyone but himself, and his followers, i don't understand why you were not voting your interests. most are either unemployed, low income, not educated, and [indiscernible] i don't understand why someone would throw themselves on a knife or a man when god is supposed to be the one that is supposed to have the position of

authority. he thinks that just by him being white he's got privilege. he's got a policy to do whatever he wants. [indiscernible] not when we enslaved people, slotted the indians. -- slaughtered the indians. host: republican. good morning. jerry, are you still there? go ahead. caller: [indiscernible] flying around with air force two. we are paying for the fuel. how come we have to pay for the fuel to have her take planes all of the country when she ain't

resident yet? -- president yet? number two, god saved trump for a reason. so, he's got a good reason to run for president. thank you. host: we will talk to gannon university professor jeffrey bloodworth about the role of rural and rustbelt voters this campaign cycle. stay with us. >> next up for c-span's coverage of this summer's political party conventions, we had to chicago for the democratic national convention. watch live, beginning monday, august 19, as the party puts forward their presidential nominee. here leaders talk about the administration's track record and their vision for the next four years. as the fight to continue the

white house. the democratic national convention, live, august 19, on c-span, c-span now, or online at c-span.org. don't miss a moment. visit our website for the latest schedule updates and for full coverage of the republican national convention. you can also catch up on past conventions anytime at c-span.org/campaign, or by scanning the code. >> friday night, watching c-span's 2024 campaign trail. a weekly round up of campaign coverage, providing a one-stop shop to -- to discover what candidates are saying to voters. along with first-hand accounts from political reporters, updated poll numbers, fundraising data, and campaign ads. at 7:30 p.m. eastern on c-span,

online at c-span.org, or download as a podcast on c-span now, our free mobile app. c-span. your unfiltered view of politics. >> c-spanshop.org is c-span's store. browse through our collection of products, apparel, books, home to core, and accessories. there is something for every c-span fan. shop now, or any time c-spanshop.org. >> "washington journal post quote continues. host: welcome back. we are joined now by jeffrey bloodworth, a professor at gannon university. welcome to the program. guest: it is great to be here. thanks for having me. host: i want to start with the piece you wrote for unheard.

it is called "the revolt of the rust belt. what do you mean by revolt? guest: the rust belt for decades was a democratic stronghold, and donald trump in -- since 2016 has made this a trumpist area. he switched those states on the back of rustbelt voters. and won the presidency. you know, this is the seedbed of the trumpist movement. it is not the only stronghold, but it is one of the pillars that gives trump his strength and ability to retake the white house. host: can you define what the rust belt is and a little bit of the history, the political history of that area? guest: yeah, the rust belt is amorphous, but it is an area stretching from the upper

midwest, thinking wisconsin, michigan, stretching east, you know, to pennsylvania, parts of new york. you can think of it stretching as far south as st. louis, missouri, all the way east through ohio. it is the industrial heartland. we call it the rust belt because in the 1950's it was home to 50% of all american jobs, right? think about heavy industry. they called the rust belt due to the process of automation, globalizatn, the industrial heartland has lost its economic might. and it slowly became a shell of its former self. many of these jobs were union jobs and they gave working-class people a real toehold in the middle class. think about it geographically as the heartland.

this region has been taking it on the chin. i mean, no region in america has suffered more in the transition from being an industrialized economy to a postindustrial economy than the rust belt. i would argue that donald trump is the culmination of this massive transition. you know, millions of working-class voters who use to always have a toehold in the middle class or hoped to have a toehold in the middle class, have been left behind. i live in the rust belt and i traveled to d.c. or new york or overseas, and the difference in terms of affluence is quite stark. you know, for people who don't travel to the rust belt very often, they should come visit sometime. go to youngstown. come to. . drive-thru western pennsylvania. i think you will see why donald

trump has a certain appeal to certain kinds of voters. he mentioned -- host: you mentioned the economic issues. what has been happening in the rust belt? guest: look, as the fruits of american prosperity have flowed to the coasts and flow to people like me who do not live on the coast, highly educated people, also the cultural power has flowed to highly educated elites on the coast. and, you know, those of us who live in the interior. they have a certain kind of value and cultural norms that stand in contrast to mainstream, middle american values. so, the culture wars, as we call them, they are part and parcel of a feeling of being left

behind. of not having a voice in the larger, kind of national conversation. i think it is the economic issues that are at the forefront, but the culture war is a sense of working-class folk who feel angry about being left behind economically, and that makes them more prone to be activated by these culture war issues. look, it is just a different sensibility of highly educated people in los angeles versus a working-class person in youngstown, ohio, or here he, pennsylvania. but we know who controlled the legacy media and hollywood. it is a feeling of being left out and left behind. host: the subtitle of the book is that democrats have squandered the white working class. what have they done

specifically, and what do you think they need to do, if anything, to regain the white working class? guest: let's begin with, the white working class is still the nation's single largest voting demographic. the largest sector of the american electorate. i mean, it is shrinking. in the 1970's 70% of all voters were white working class. to date is around 40%. it used to be the heart and soul of the democratic party. and starting in the late 1960's the democrats lost the white working class. you know, to the republican party. again, the white working class is not just one thing. the northern white working class is different from the southern white working class. but it used to be the heart and soul of the democratic party. and, you know, now the white working class has shifted to being the heart and soul of the republican party. and for democrats to not only

just win an election, how do we get out of this democratic deficit we are in where neither party can build an enduring governing majority and really establish some kind of stability? this is not about winning one election. this is about democrats building an enduring government majority, passing legislation that can ameliorate some of the economic and social issues of working-class americans. the only way to do that is to win a significant portion of not just white working class, but donald trump is making inroads into the nonwhite working-class. the only way for democrats to not just win one election, but build a governing majority, is to win working-class voters back into the democratic coalition. that is a combination of a tangible policies, but also significant cultural symbolism. i would say it begins with letting working-class people run

for office again. working-class people, right? people with working-class roots that might not have a college education. working in congressional and senate offices and on presidential campaigns. there is a different cultural sensibility between those who are only raised in upper-middle-class mail you -- i am a working-class kid myself. i have a phd and run in certain circles now. i can tell you, there is a different sensibility. i see as a historian of liberalism, i think i have insight into why american liberals have struggled over my entire lifetime. they have lost that working-class instability that used to animate the party of fdr. host: if you would like to join the conversation you can do so. our lines are, republicans, (202) 748-8001.

democrats, (202) 748-8000. and independents, (202) 748-8002 . you can start calling in now. jeff, switching over to rural voters, you wrote an opinion piece in the "washington post" in june, so this is before biden dropped out of the race. with the headline, rural voters do not trust biden. the progressive voters even care? explain what you mean by that. guest: i was writing a biography on carl albert. this is somebody who would win 75% of the rural vote in deep red oklahoma. the very same regions that a liberal house speaker would win 75% of the vote are the strongest trump regions today. when i have come to see as an academic, and i run in these

circles, is that highly educated americans, who generally lean left, they look at rural america with this disdain, with this sense of, those stupid people vote for trump. there is a very real sensibility. i'm not making this up. that there is nothing you can say to these people. these people vote against their interests. again, this is not every democrat by any stretch, but i'm talking about academia. that filters down into elite opinion. that there is almost like something inevitably reactionary about rural america. which is bizarre to a historian, because we understand that liberalism was born in rural america. as recently as the 1990's bill

clinton won about half of the rural vote. so the question is, do progressives even care. there is a certain part of the democratic party that is -- that has written off rural america as reactionary. there are candidates all across the country in 2024 pushing back against that. i want to make that clear. there is a lot of interesting democrats running in rural america that opinion. there sense of a rising insurgency pushing back against i -- against what i would think i had become conventional wisdom. that is the question. for vice president harris, whether she wins or not is the margins of defeat in rural america. who will win that contest? will progressives care and go out to rural and the rust belt and avidly campaign and asked

for their votes? in 2016, eureka, pennsylvania, the third largest -- eerie, pennsylvania, you cannot get a yard sign for hillary clinton. that is how little the campaign cared about pennsylvania. no wonder she lost pennsylvania. this is an encapsulation of an elite attitude. in pennsylvania philadelphia and pittsburgh matter as far as elite democrats are concerned. that is the push and pull and there is a real movement against that within the democratic party. that sensibility most certainly is there and set the stage for donald trump in 2016. host: let's take calls and we will start with stephen in arizona. republican. caller: i have two questions. when the people from the rust

belt see jd vance getting beat up by the media, do they believe it? it seems like academia, which sees the other vice president elect being treated like he is the second coming erica, and then they see vance -- the second coming for america and the macy vance getting beat up -- and then they see vance getting beat up, to they believe those things? i think the people in the rust belt have more common sense and they see the media is beating not just trump up but the whole conservative movement. we want low taxes. we want the border secure. we see the world blowing up. we see the democrats do not say anything about it and we see the

media does not say anything about the negativity. kamala harris says she will help the tips, the waitresses will not be taxed on their tips. meanwhile she was the deciding vote to break the 50/50 tie to send the irs after the people that get tips. host: what do you think? guest: i just read in the new york times this morning, there is an op-ed pillorying vice president harris and donald trump further policy of not taxing tips. i shook my head. it is the legacy media that does not understand how you appeal to working-class voters. i worked in restaurants for years. i can tell you, that is really

appealing to tipped employees. that matters. it might seem like a small policy but is a signal that people in washington understand you, get you. that is what working-class americans -- they do not think. i grew up in this mill you. they do not think that people in washington or wall street or hollywood fully understand and get them. i will say, i read "hillbilly elegy" when it came out. i even assigned it to my classes as way to understand the from vote. i think it is a good book. the movie made by ron howard was a good movie. i grew up in a very similar circumstance. it rings true to me. it is very odd help vance is being attacked on how he faked his biography. that is odd. there are particulars about j.d. vance and how he first thought

donald trump was terrible and now thinks he is great that you can attack him on. it is strange to me. the question about how people in the rust belt will take these attacks on j.d. vance. i think j.d. vance's story, let's imagine he made it up. i don't think he did. i don't think you can write a book like that without it being true. it rings true in the rust belt. the opioid crisis, joblessness, depths of despair gripping our region in a way the rest of america does not fully appreciate. i do not think those attacks on his biography will do anything. he is an authentic kid of the rust belt. whether he is an authentic voice for trump is another thing. i think that is where j.d. vance's contribution to the

republican ticket will matter. there is an elite disdain for the rust belt and the way they are going after j.d. vance's basic biography. it baffles me. host: carolyn in charlotte, north carolina. democrat. caller: i agree with the rust belt situation but i am from north carolina and there are problems in the south as well. industrial things have left ear and left the areas destitute. that is one area to tackle. the other area is the fact that race plays a part in it. the whole situation up until the 1960's, the late 1960's was everybody shift from democrat to

republican has a lot to do with race. people in the rust belt areas are suffering, but then they were hard workers. they have this pitiful story. what about african-americans, we have been through the same process and stepped on so long and everybody blames us for it. we have been right beside everybody in this country working very hard as well. host: jeff allen in chicago, illinois sent us something like that. what is the major difference between the white working class the non-working-class if you can address both of those questions? guest: the first question, i cannot agree more. race played a significant role, especially in the south and the southern white working-class shift from republican party --

from the democrats to the republicans. one thing to keep in mind is a generation for that shift. it was not until the 1990's it became complete. race is always there. the civil rights revolution opened opportunities for republicans with the white working-class. i will point out that the white working-class in the north remained a democratic voting block even through obama. obama won a series of the majority of the white working-class vote in northern states. race is there, especially in the south. the farther south you go the more race matters in that realignment. it is not just race at all times. there are other factors in play. the difference between white and nonwhite working-class.

that is a big question. i think what we are seeing with trump making real inroads into the nonwhite working-class is whether you are white or nonwhite, there is a convergence of a working-class experience in america. the divide in america is between those who have a college education and those who do not. if you have a four-year degree you are more likely to be the middle class, if you have a four-year degree you have a lot more economic and social stability. that is the divide in america. it is interesting that it cuts against race, increasingly. race is always there in america. what we are seeing is the residence of race it -- the resonance of race is declining in people's experience. it is not whether you are white or african america, is whether

you have a four-year college degree or not. that is the major factor in determining the trajectory of your life. it is about that. my argument would be a party that represents working-class americans in the best spirit, not demagogy issues, but really representing the best issues of working-class americans, those are the people who need a federal, state, and local government on their side the most. you do not need a demagogue, but you do need one of the two major parties bringing class to the fore again. host: this is kenny in laurel, maryland. republican. caller: along the same lines of race. the previous caller mentioned what i was going to talk about. the perception that this is a white working-class that has been left behind, but over the

years other americans, black americans who'd been in the same situation have almost been ignored or they have been blamed or told to buckle up and get themselves off the floor and go out and get jobs and start working. at the same time, you have trump who is not a working-class person. he is an elite. this idea that the democratic elites are ignoring the working-class. i am a republican but the maga republicans really take me out of the party and now i am becoming more of an independent. i don't know what trump has to offer to the working-class people. i don't see policy from trump

other than the immigration policy. that the immigrants were trying to work hard and get jobs and doing the best they can to survive. my question is what policy do you see from the republicans offering to the white working-class people? guest: that is a great question. i totally agree when we think about african-americans are first hit. this is the group the last hired, the first fired. that was the group that was first hit by deindustrialization in the north. compassion should not be a zero-sum game. what are the policies? i will answer it this way. i do not think you will see better policies until you see

working-class people running for office, until you see people with working-class roots working in the campaigns. i will say in the biden era there are real efforts at supporting families with children and there were some real inroads into reducing child poverty rates. that is largely tax policy, it is often invisible. what people want to see our quick and tangible results. what you want to see our higher minimum wages. what you want to see his work rewarded. people who work hard and play by the rules who are able to get ahead. with inflation over the last few years, that has hit working-class people especially hard. the kind of policies -- honestly

i do not think they will come from either party until the parties address the issue that working-class americans are not at the center of american politics. between trump and the democrats i think the democrats offer better policy for working-class americans from that perspective. host: i wonder why hasn't that translated. you mentioned hiram and wage. that has been a democratic policy -- you mentioned higher minimum wage. that is been a democratic policy not able to pass because of republican members of congress. why has it that translated into more support among rural voters? guest: that is a great question. it is as simple as -- if you went to harvard or you went to yale for you come from an elite

background you have a certain way of talking. the reason why tim walz, to my surprise, is an effective vice presidential candidate is because he speaks the language of the rural midwest. you need to have people from working-class backgrounds who speak in the language and the diction who understand the nuance. people are not going to listen to you until lacey they are recondite -- until they see they are recognized. kamala harris could do a lot of good if she revealed herself to be a baseball fan or what his her favorite television show? where working-class voters can see themselves in that candidate. barack obama doing the ncaa tournament bracket, it seems like why is he doing that, but it is a way of connecting with voters. highly educated democratic elites, it is good to have really smart people in government. there is a cultural disconnect.

the policy might be there but the way you say it and the way you communicate, it is lost in translation. host: patricia in camden, new jersey. democrat. caller: i am from the inner-city and i'm trying to wrap my mind around rural populations. i am close to philadelphia, i am rooted in philadelphia. erie, pennsylvania, some parts of the rural area we cannot ride through comfortably to get a feel to try to relate to them. my question is there is there a documentary where i can learn what that looks like? i can eat -- i cannot see it for myself. it is not "safe." and are these first-generation people? what are the demographics? and are there high-paying jobs

-- i saw something on c-span and that is how i learned at 68. our jobs being sent to them? host: go ahead. guest: a really good question. the demographics of rural america, we do not want to make this mistake that rural america is monochromatic, meaning all white. it is certainly not. if you go into the deep south you will go into rural areas that are majority african-american. rural america it is more white than the rest of the country, is more working-class, it is more noncollege. it is diverse at the same time. it is just not as diverse as the rest of america, which we should never forget we live for the most racially, religiously come and ethnically diverse eyesight a and the history of the world -- and ethnically diverse society in the history of the world.

america is an achievement and that. rural america has not all economically fallen behind, but the good paying jobs are in urban america. the biden counties he won, which number -- a small number relative to the national number of counties in america had about 70% of america's gdp. the rural counties which donald trump overwhelmingly won have about 30% of the nation's gdp. there is a real wealth gap between urban and rural america. what matters is barack obama in 2008, people forget he picked up his campaign after he officially won the nomination by going to rural appalachia, virginia. barack obama campaigned in appalachia. he campaigned in rural america and this is how he won a mandate, 53% of the vote, he won ohio, north carolina.

sure the cities, sure the african-american vote, but he won a higher percentage of the white vote. but democrats have forgotten is they have ignored these regions. it is little wonder this is donald trump's strongest region. by 2024 there are a lot of democrats who understand the weaknesses they quit going to rural america. north carolina is a center of organizing by democrats in rural america. clayton anderson, the north carolina democratic party head is all about rural democrats. there is an agricultural commissioner running for office who is avidly organizing in north carolina. there are democrats who understand that if you go after rural america you can win votes. it is not necessarily a republican or conservative bastion. host: let's talk to jim in

midland, texas. independent. good morning. caller: i would like to have a few concise comments. i will try to keep it small. dr. bloodworth speaks of an enduring electorate. we already have that in cities. an enduring electorate. it is the end of democracy. i lived in austin when it was taken over in the 1970's by democrats. it is still totally democratic. it is the end of democracy. the democrats speak of the end of democracy but they are ending it. host: can you clarify what you mean by them ending democracy? people in austin vote for the

democrats. caller: virtually 100% of the offices are democratic. in chicago it is probably worse. if you have a one party city or a one-party state there is no democracy. that is not democracy. host: we will get jeffrey bloodworth to respond. guest: i think i will surprise the caller by agreeing with him to some extent. i am not a cheerleader for the democratic party. what i am a cheerleader for as i want democrats to go out into rural america and actively campaign and become stronger in rural america. i also want republicans to go into american cities again and actively campaign and become competitive. this is where i think the caller is correct. one-party rule is not good for democracy. iron sharpens iron.

democrats have turned their backs on rural america. republicans have turned their backs on urban america. neither is good for either party. both are bad for america. the democratic party desperately needs a rural weenie. -- the democratic party desperately needs a rural wing. carl albert and the rural wing of the democratic party helped pass civil rights legislation from the 1930's to the 1970's. america also needs a republican party competitive in cities. american cities would be better governed if there were republicans at the table who were challenging democrats and making them think through their ideas. we would be better off with two parties that are competitive in all regions, rural and urban. we used to have that. i grew up in that era and we

lost it. i'm focusing on the democrats but you can flip the coin and talk about that with republicans as well. host: texas on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: what is wrong with america is people are always trying to divide them up. urban against rural, big cities against small cities, republicans against democrat, white against black. these are all people and we all want the same thing. enough money to take care of our family. good streets, pure water, air to breathe. i think the political people wanting the power tried to divide us up and make us think it is this person against the other. i used to live in indiana. i live in texas.

you cannot say austin is one role. austin is democrat but the governor is republican. it is a two party situation going on here. people need water everywhere they go in the world. the only difference between the parties is black-and-white, i guarantee you. the reason i know that is because if you look around in the democratic party is the majority of black people. in the republican party, it is just the opposite. why? because black people do not know or cannot see the light? it is because of the way we have been treated historically. i don't care who you call them. democrat or republican. whoever treats me the best is who i vote for. host: jeffrey bloodworth? guest: the history of racist

oppression in america is very real. the democrats are the party of the civil rights revolution. i can totally understand the caller's position on siding with the democrats. i also think she is correct in saying -- this is why barack obama went from beginning skiers state senator in illinois nobody had ever heard of to defeating hillary clinton for the democratic nomination. his speech at the 20 fourth -- his speech at the 2004 democratic convention was a distillation of what the colleges said. the difference between rural america and urban america is about income. there are real differences in education. the differences -- we make more out of them than what we are. americans are really thirsty for

a kind of politics that is unifying. you want to have something that is substantive, but we have been stuck in this doom loop of rural versus urban, red versus blue. i don't know anyone in my circle who thinks we have a healthy politics. it is unhealthy. one way to break out of that is what i was writing about. democrats understanding that they can win rural voters. it is about how you talk to them. it is just with a slightly different accent. i do agree with the caller. there is more that unites americans then divides us. our politics does not reflect that.

host: i want to ask you about your personal background because you say senator vance's background is similar to yours. can you tell us about that? guest: i grew up working class. working-class america, deindu trialization cultural liberation of the 1960's. out of the 60's, the feminist movement, the sexual revolution, the civil rights movement were extraordinary things that made america a better place. for working-class americans, especially the sexual revolution and the loosening up of cultural norms on gambling and pornography, this it working-class americans particularly hard. you combine that with deindu

strialization, working-class communities where jobs are disappearing and families are disintegrating. i came up with a single mom who worked two jobs to make ends meet. in my immediate family i have had five or six, my dad, my aunt, my uncle, di what are called deaths of despair which have hit the white working class but all working-class americans especially hard. i went to college and i like to read and write. i pinch myself every day that i live the life i live. my background gives me a particular insight into the struggles, not just of the white working class, but of all working-class americans. that is the divide in america today. do you have a four-year college degree or not? there is a lot of understandable anger that people who work hard

and play by the rules cannot get ahead. sometimes they are not the most eloquent in the way they talk about it, but that reality is very real. for those of us who live comfortable lives, and i am one of them, who are not hit as hard by inflation because we are up her income, we have to take a moment and recognize that there is some real economic and social turmoil in america, especially for those who did not go to college and two are not the winners in this new globalized economy. i don't know about all of the answers to how you redress those issues. the first thing is to recognize it is real. i would argue that putting class back at the center of american politics is so central, and not

demagogue class, but substantive policy issues that address these problems. having working-class people back at the table. working-class people felt like they are talked to in their particular kind of symbols and language. working-class people are different from highly educated people. i live in both worlds. i know this. i see the difference. i think putting class at the center of american politics again the way it was during the new deal would go a long way toward toward easing some of these divides. host: jeffrey bloodworth, american political history professor at gannon university, thanks for joining us today. guest: thanks for having me. host: that does for today's washington journal but we will be back tomorrow at 7:00 eastern.

have a great day, everybody. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2024] >> our coverage of cpaign 2020 ur continues today. democratic vice presidenti nominee governor tim walz speaks at the american federation of state, county, and municipal employees convention in los angeles. that is live at 3:35 p.m. eastern. also this afternoon president biden and first lady jill biden will announce up to $150 million in awards to develop technologies to help surgeons provide more successful tumor removal surgeries for people facing cancer. want to live this afternoon from tulane university in new orleans

at 4:30 eastern. also on c-span. you can want both of these events on the c-span now, our free video app, and on c-span.org. >> next on c-span's coverage of the somers political party conventions, we had to chicago for the democratic national committee and. watch live beginning monday, august 19 as the party puts forth their presidential nominee. hear democratic leaders talk about the administration's track record and their vision for the next four years, as they fight to retain the white house. democratic national convention, live, monday, august 19 on c-span, c-span now, or online at c-span.org. don't miss a moment. visit our website for the latest and watch our full coverage of the republican national convention. you can catch up on past conventions anytime on demand