in a debate in new york city in would be the first face-to-face meeting between the two vice president of candidates. cbs news has offered to cover 17th, deborah 24th come october 1 and october 8 as possible date options. governor walz responded to the invitation saying see you october 1 jd. still no word from janitor event -- from senator vance. for more campaign 2024 information, visit our website c-span.org. on saturday, august 24, book tv on c-span two takes you live to the washington convention center for our annual coverage of the library of congress national book festival. since 2001, we featured hundreds of in depth and uninterrupted author talks. this year's guests including librarian of congress carla hayden, pulitzer prize winners doris kearns goodwin, and more.

the library of congress's national book festival live saturday, august 24 beginning at 9:00 a.m. eastern on c-span two. >> welcome back to washington journal. washington." we have andy kroll with us, an investigative reporter with pro-publica. explain project 2025. guest: it is an effort led by the heritage foundation and supplemented by dozens of organizations and hundreds of contributors to try to lay the groundwork for the next conservative presidential administration. obviously, that would be laying the future groundwork for a trump administration. your viewers have probably heard a little or a lot about the 900 page policy playbook. but project 2025 has put

together and it lays out potential policies that the future president could do on everything from education to health care to technology, antitrust and the federal workforce itself. there are other parts of the project 2025. there is a whole piece that flows under the notion that personnel is policy, a phrase that caught on during the reagan years and the idea is that the new president and administration not only need a playbook of what to do with the functions of the federal government but needs people to put policies in place. a big part is also recruiting people, vetting them and training them are and doing this before the inauguration so that when the next conservative president takes office, he not only has the policy, but the

people to put in jobs across the government. host: doesn't heritage do this every presidential election and don't liberals have think tanks for democratic? what is the big deal? guest: yes, heritage, in particular does this kind of work every four years since going back to the early 80's, the beginning of the reagan administration. they play out a mandate for leadership and it is a thick book can lay out policies. and to some degree they do the personnel part of this. there are also democratic affiliated ones that do some version of this but none does what heritage it does on the conservative side in terms of

the mandate for leadership. why are we talking about it so much this year? democrats have chosen to make this much more of an issue and much more of a talking point than they have in years past. the reason they are doing that is because the policies in that playbook for project 2025 are extremely conservative. we are talking everything from eliminating the department of education, dramatically curtailing medicaid, dramatically restricting, further restricting access to reproductive health care services like mifepristone. and i think perhaps most controversially in the public pulling out there is the plan in project 2025 in the playbook to re-classify tens of government, nonpartisan, nonpolitical people so that they can be more easily

removed from their jobs and replaced by political appointees. these are career employees who serve democrats and republicans who would be hired potentially and replaced by individuals who have gone through this training process. host: former president trump and his campaign have been in fact that this does not represent their views and they have nothing to do with project 25. guest: they have been saying that since it has come under attack from democrats and liberal groups. a spokeswoman said, reiterated the campaign's attempts to distance themselves from project 2025. and she said anyone who wants to read about the policies should go on agenda 47, however, you

have to look at the record going back further. former president trump has said great things about the heritage foundation and has appeared at the events and in a speech at a heritage foundation gala, he talked about the great work heritage was doing including laying the groundwork for the future of that movement and how that was important and how he valued the work that heritage was doing. so before project 2025 became so unpopular, the former president was close to the heritage foundation and the people involved. when it became politically toxic is one that happened. host: what are the similarities and differences between agenda 47 which the trump campaign is saying is their agenda and project 2025? guest: there are a number of different things. first and foremost, the project 2025 playbook policy and mandate

for leadership is 887 pages long . agenda 47 is to doesn't bullet points. the project 2025 mandates for leadership is very detailed on basically every possible thing a federal potential administration could do. and we mentioned some of these. agenda 47 is end of top line, things like defunding a universities that are indoctrinating students to become communists. it is a little more culture were tilted within the mandate for leadership project 2025 which is very conservative and is a fascinating read for anyone who wants to read. agenda 47 doesn't have that much detail. there is some overlap and talk about cracking down on over

regulation and creating a more hospitable business climate. it is much thinner than project 2025 and is worth noting the authors of the project 2025 policy blueprints are listed at the end of the document and there are dozens who used to work for former president trump, including stephen miller, the architect of the border policies to name just one. host: what is the academy? guest: it is the policy part. host: the training arm? guest: exactly, the training arm. people who are interested in serving in the future conservative administration can sign up on line. it is a vetting process that happens. if you are approved, you get access to the 25 videos, 14

hours of content, and you watch this content in there are quizzes and worksheets. it is like a certification course and you get a project 20 25 digital certification if you complete the different modules. it is interesting viewing. it is everything from policy recommendations, nuts and bolts of how the federal government works and a lot of content drawing on lessons learned, mistakes made and how to prepare better for a second administration based on that collective wisdom. host: if you would like to ask a question of andy kroll, you can start calling in. republicans (202) 748-8001, democrats (202) 748-8000, and independents (202) 748-8002.

bringing us to the videos, they are not public. how did you get them? guest: we can't get too much into sourcing because that is the ethics of how we do our job as investigative reporters. every time someone sends propublica, the question is is it real and can we verify it. and then is it newsworthy. we did the work to authenticate and talk to the people in videos and people involved in the videos and found all kinds of references to the videos online on the project 2025 website. we vetted and verified first and foremost and then we watched the videos. i watched all 14 hours and found that there is a newsworthy information that voters deserve to know. host: so 900 pages out, it is

public, so what is new about the videos that is not in project 2025? guest: a handful of things on different themes, if you will. one is, the videos contain policy proposal that i think are not fully articulated in the 800 page -- 880 seven page policy book. one is a former top official appears in when a video and talks about basically downplaying the existence of climate change and she says that for the intended audios, those being trained to go into the government and they need to "eradicate all references to climate change" that they see. that is something that is new and matters. host: let's show that video to our audience right now.

this is about climate change. here it is. [video clip] >> i always understood that climate change meant seasons. our climate shows change all the time -- it doesn't change all the time but that is not what is meant by the left. what do you think about the left's words and definitions in the environment? >> that is a great point. they don't stop. climate change they allege is everywhere if the americans elect a conservative president, they will have to eradicate climate change references from absolutely everywhere. and according to our intelligence community, the number one threat facing our country today is, drumroll, climate change. not russia, china, not a i, climate change. this is how the federal government is all in on this issue. and climate change advocates

wield a lot of power. this is an issue to pay attention to as it has infiltrated every part of the federal government. when i think of climate change, i immediately think of population control, don't you? i think about the people who don't want you to have children because of the impact on the environment. perhaps not everyone will make that connection, but after spending time in the international space trying to protect life, i can tell you that this is part of their ultimate goal, to control people. host: your reaction? guest: it is an extreme position to take. not only that climate change is not an pressing issue, something that bipartisan portions of people say it and pulling but that the political employees should proactively eradicate, remove, references to this issue from documents in whatever federal agency they are working

in is pretty sweeping. host: i want to show another clip. this in dan hoff, a former legal adviser for presidential personnel office under trump talking about the -- being ready to take back the government. here he is. [video clip] >> the next republican administration is the most important in our life. the stakes are too high. the left views this monopoly over education, media and culture to craft the pillars of american society, free speech, meritocracy, and national space and the unique excellence of our self-governing republic. in the name of diversity, equity and inclusion, the democrats are lowering standards in every aspect of modern life, mostly in medicine and our brainwashing the next generation with the dangers affliction that america is racist and it still looks

cast in cities and robs us of self-confidence that we have a civilization worth defending. i mention this because if the next republican president doesn't execute a dramatic course correction, there may never be another chance. if you are not on board with helping implement a dramatic course correction because you think it will damage or prospects, i get it. it is a real danger. but do us all a favor and sit this one out. we only need 5000 administration position and there are tens of millions of conservative voters. if you're not prepared to be bold, we can manage it without you. i use to run presidential personnel at the white house. host: what do you think? guest: you have to understand who dan hoff is, a former advisor to president trump, someone very close to the operation and would have a second role in the administration. the context of what the 880

seven page policy blueprint lays out. that is a dramatic course correction for the country. to hear dan huff say that and hear him instructing future political appointees on that kind of approach and to see that document as well, i think it contributes to the idea that for all that the trump political campaign says now, distancing itself, the people that would implement these in a potential next trump administration are preparing people to implement something in that policy blueprint. host: let's talk to ron, republican in fort lauderdale, florida. you are on with andy kroll. caller: thank you for taking my call. when you first started speaking, you didn't make any -- trump

didn't make any commitment to support 2025, did he? didn't he say that he was not in any way going to be involved with what they are accusing him of doing, which is 2025 project? host: we will get a response. guest: good question. donald trump has distanced himself from project 2025 or his campaign has. i would point you to comments he has made in 2020 two, repeatedly saying that heritage foundation is doing great work. he flew in private jet and one of the faces of the event and he endorsed the work that heritage was doing, laying the groundwork and leading the movement. i would keep these continuing pieces of information in mind when you hear the former

president say he doesn't want anything to do with project 2025. needs to praise it and support it when it was outside of the political cycle. host: but he praised it before it came out in writing? guest: that is right. it is fair to say that when the 880-page blueprint came out authored by his supporters, they didn't weigh in then. it wasn't until the attacks on project 2025 from democrats and liberals came in that trump and his campaign staff started to distance themselves. there is a point to be made that the book wasn't out in 2022. host: was their project 2017 when he first came into office from heritage and did he accept those recommendations? guest: heritage,, like it does every four years, laid out potential policies for a future

administration. you have to remember that people on the republican side expected a donald trump victory. while there may have been policies in place, where they really were hurting was personnel in 2016 going into 2017. in the videos we published, the leader of donald trump's transition team talked about how tough it was to run this transition with no one on the bench to staff all the roles. he says, why project 2020 five's training element is so important is because it is something we didn't have in 2016 and 2017 and needed, and it hampered the early work. host: patty, a democrat in pennsylvania. caller: thank you so much for

taking my call. good morning, sir. i read the reporting and watched the videos. thank you for the work. i have called in and the first time i called in to discuss project 2025 was back in april and we talked about the guardrails that will not be there. and then i also focused on another call regarding the acting -- the folks that would be put in places that normally the senate confirms and the plan is that you have the acting. one is the pledge of loyalty. what i want to talk about today and if you could address this, our trump campaign obviously trends to distance themselves from this because it has burst into the open and people are

talking about it. so it tying in some of the things he has done that now project 2025 is detailed in. one of the things is personnel. he demands loyalty. that is what personnel, the number one vetting thing. you have to pledge your loyalty to his agenda. so there goes the guardrails. the people around him that keep them from doing things that are not particularly legal. also, tying in, for instance the other night just with elon musk he said, of course he wants to eliminate the department of education. i read every one mandate that is available going back to reagan. they don't like the department of education and hate the post office. he has said that. in the past he has done with a

proposed. host: let's get a response for you. guest: i am impressed that you read those mandates for leadership. that is impressive. i would zero in on a phrase you used earlier about guardrails. one of the more interesting and some would say troubling parts of the mandate for leadership is obviously the notion that the white house should be able to observe more control over the department of justice. the department of justice since the aftermath of the nixon presidency and watergate era has tried to operate with independence, and that is true under democrats and republicans. former president trump has said repeatedly that he wishes the justice department was more at his whim and that he could direct the doj in ways he sees fit. that is something he has said publicly on social media and elsewhere and something you see in project 2025, another overlap

moment. he may distance himself from what project 2025 lays out but in some ways these are policies he stated he wants. host: wasn't there a proposal called "schedule f" that would do what you talk about which is replace a career presence in the government and the able to fire them so he could put in its political appointees in their place? guest: that is right, it got lost in the larger public debate because it happened at the end of the administration and there was a lot of chaotic events happening at the end, at the least of which was the event of a january 6 and the fight over the 2020 election. this was something the trump administration has already tried and to put schedule f into plain english, using some federal authority to reclassify government employees so that they don't have the protection

typically afforded to career civil servants, they don't serve one party or the other but carry over from administration to administration and if you reclassify them, it makes it easier to fire them at the will of the executive, the commander-in-chief. project 2025 lays out how to do that and within that how to replace those people with more politically loyal appointees who would do the work of the president. host: let's talk to david in new jersey, independent. caller: i think for undecided voters or independent voters who tend to vote democrat, issues like project 2025 are not going to drive them away from voting republican. it will be the choice of tim walz that drives him away. he is a choice based on fear.

josh shapiro was by far the better choice, but the democrats fear their volatile left so much that the volatile left is so reactive and thankfully cori bush lost in my hometown of st. louis. but tim walz's views on unions and israel and the issue of josh shapiro being jewish. so tim walz is going to drive the undecided and independent to vote democrat further away. and once additional note, a much bigger threat to our democracy and our freedoms is the alliance for defending freedom. they are doing more than anybody in this country, issue by issue and going everywhere and fighting things relating to transitioning and taking on the cases quietly.

josh hawley is doing nothing like his wife. we need a good investigation of the alliance for defending freedom. guest: david, we take tips from our readers in the public all of the time and i will take that tip from you as someone who clearly follows the news and the diverse stories under the news quite well. 1.i would make about independent voters and project 2025, if you look at polling on some of the high profile subjects including the department of education and the schedule f of government workforce reform, they pulled -- they poll poorly. a poll had this saying they disapproved of these kinds of policies.

so is that a large number of democrats and independents as well? the issues if you pull them out are not especially popular with large majorities of people. host: we have a text from denise in minnesota. has the conservative super mari on the supreme court emboldened them to believe that many of the policies of a project 2025 can actually be pushed through with trump's win? guest: i think the answer to that is yes. if you listen to conservative litigators and activists talk about, maybe not specifically project 2025 but broadly the policy landscape and how the judicial branch fits into that, there is without question confidence and almost a bit of swagger in conversations i have with sources and the reporting that we do that they have

shifted the judiciary in such a way that they have a much more favorable audience, certainly with the supreme court in the 6-3 majority but moving down through the appellate courts and into the district courts as well. host: jolene, a in pennsylvania. caller: thank you for taking my call. with this project 2025 being something to look at, what about the critical race theory project and the 1619 project? that is it doing more harm to our country than project 2025. trump is not a politician, -- he is a businessman.

like you said. democrats and republicans when they get power, they try to bring their own people and set up people in position that will help them get to their mission. what is the harm in that? when trump was president, there were obama people in key places that would slow down things that trump wanted. he learned a lot from the first time in office. guest: thanks for the comment. you make some good points. one i will zero in on is the project 2025 training program for political appointees who feel these particular openings that turnover every four or

eight years, a new president has the right to appoint those people and it is the job of those people to do the work of the administration, to take the policies that the president wants or their executive orders, executive actions that the president has signed into legal existence and to implement them at the agency level. project 2025 is training these people to do that normal work. where things are different is the notion that not only is a future conservative administration going to appoint both people to those slots but also try to politicize career government positions, reclassify, fire the

>> our unbiased political coverage. here's the good news. 100% of your contributions,

large or small, directly supports c-span operations. and best of all, an anonymous donor has pledged to measure donations dollar for dollar up to $25,000. you can find out more on.org/donate. visit c-span wonderworks done. thank you for watching and thanks so much for yr pport. ♪ announcer: c-span is your unfiltered view of government, funded by these television companies and more, including cox. >> one connection is needed most , cox is there to help bringing , affordable internet to families in need, new tech to boys and girls' clubs, and support to veterans. whenever and wherever it matters most, will be there. announcer: c supports c-span as a public service, along with

these othetelevision providers, giving you a front-row seat to demoacy. >> hires senator and republican vice-presidential nominee jd vance campaign ♪ in michigan at a family trucking company. after his remarks, he fielded questions from reporters on inflation, the economy, and immigration. it's about 40 minutes. [applause] ♪ [applause] >> how are you all doing. thank you all. please. thank you all.