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-- giving you a front row seat to democracy. host: good morning, saturday, august 20 -- 31st, 2024. many parents and caregivers will get kids ready to go back school, which can be very stressful. as the scramble of juggling walk -- lunchboxes and after school activity begins, the u.s. surgeon general is out with a whole -- a health warning that parental stress is a serious public health concern. we want to hear your thoughts on this. regional phone lines this morning. 202-748-8000 for those in the eastern and central time zones. 202-748-8001 for those in the mountain and pacific time zones. if you would like to text us, 202-748-8003. please be sure to include your name and where you are writing in from. if you would like to reach us on social media, facebook.com/cspan and @cspanwj.

the surgeon general put that morning in an op-ed in the "new york times" with the headline parents are at their wits end, an do better. by the american psychologicaludy parents say most days there8% of stress is completely overwhelming, compared with 26% of other adults who reported the same. they are navigating the parenting, worabout money and safety, struggling to get enough sleep, as wellw stressors including omnipresent screens, a youth mental health crisis and widespread fear about the future." the u.s. servant -- surgeon general gave a speech about this and here is a portion of it. [video clip] >> parents have more stress compared to other adults.

41% say that most days they are so stressed they cannot function. when stress is severe and prolonged it can impact mental and physical health but it does not have to be this way. that is why i am issuing a new advisory on parents. their well-being is linked to the well-being of kids. it can affect their health, learning, and futures. no society can thrive when parents and children are struggling. we need a shift in how we value and prioritize parents' well-being. we can ensure that parents get paid time off to get with a sick child and families have access to affordable childcare and reliable health care. workplace and community organizations can cultivate policies that support parents and families and coworkers can provide invaluable support. as parents and caregivers we can speak more openly about the challenges that we face, putting aside the shame and guilt that

keep us from asking for help. raising children is sacred work. it should matter to all of us by supporting care -- parents and caregivers. we can take a giant step towards building a society where everyone can thrive. visit surgeongeneral.gov/parents to learn more. [end video clip] host: here is a bit of the report about parental stress, the health advisory pointing out "there are approximately 63 million parents living with children under the age of 18 in the u.s.. there are millions of nonparent caregivers who carry the primary responsibility for caring for children. parents and caregivers play a critical role in providing the formative, safe, stable, and nurturing relationships and environments that children need in order to thrive. this advisory recognizes the critical role of parents and caregivers in our society and

the importance of reducing their stress and protecting their mental health and well-being. it explores the unique stressors that parents and caregivers face, the impact of the stressors on the mental health and well-being of parents, caregivers, and children, and the policies, programs and cultural shifts that we need to make to allow parents and caregivers to flourish and thrive." once again the numbers for the eastern and central time zones, 202-748-8000. for the mountain and pacific time zones, 202-748-8001. now, vice president harris was on the campaign trail and last month spoke in raleigh, north carolina about how her tax plan would help parents and families. [video clip] [applause] >> under my plan more than 100 million americans will get a tax cut and we will do this by

restoring two tax cuts designed to help middle-class and working americans. the earned income tax credit. [applause] and, the child tax credit. [applause] through which, millions of americans with children got to keep more of their hard earned income. we know that this works. and it has a direct impact on so many issues including child poverty. we know that it works. as president, i will not only restore that tax cut but expand it. we will provide $6,000 in tax relief to families during the first year of a child's life. think what that means. think what that means. that is a vital, vital year of

critical development of a child. and the cost can really add up, especially for young parents who need to buy diapers, clothes, a car seat and so much else. and we will do this while reducing the deficit. [end video clip] host: on this question of parental health as a serious public health concern, moses says on facebook "paenting stress is even at an alarming level if a wrong person is leadingmerica, and that is why americans need to keep from -- trump's cult away from the white house." the health advisory highlights a snapshot of parental stressors giving key examples of some of the things stressing out parents including financial strain, economic instability and poverty. also time demands as well as children's health, will my child

be ok? children's safety, particularly about their children being bullied, kidnapped, abductive, getting beaten up or attacked or having problems with drugs and alcohol's. parental isolation and loneliness, technology and social media. cultural pressures and children's futures. the gop vice presidential nominee senator jd vance in a recent interview spoke about his and former president trump wanting to expand the child tax credit and other policies to help parents. [video clip] >> you have been talking about the concern of the low birthrate in the united states of america, which is well documented. you said that people without children should pay higher tax rates than those without children and to lower income tax rates on women with multiple children and you pointed to hungary as the model. how do you plan to implement that policy?

>> it is called the child tax credit. >> u.n. the biden administration agree on the tax credit? >> we believe that it should be bigger -- it should be bigger but we want to get this thing done. the child tax credit has languished because harris fair -- failed to show fundamental leadership and chuck schumer has been unable to get it through the senate. >> you know that. you were not there. it was a messaging bill. i am with you on that. >> if i am there it would have failed. >> tell me what would you wanted to do to expand the child tax credit. >> you could make it a gripper child, we would like to see it at a higher dollar yield. you have to work with congress to see how viable that is. we have proposed legislation to end the practice of parents

getting surprised medical bills where they go to the hospital and have a baby and they choose an out-of-network provider and come home with unexpected bills. i have sponsored legislation to end that practice. we have a whole host of profamily policies. [end video clip] host: to your calls, andrew in oklahoma city, oklahoma. caller: hello, how are you guys doing? host: good. thank you. caller: i think there is obviously a crisis in our society. i think a lot of it is being driven by a couple of things. the first of which is if you are a parent and you realize how devastating the weather events have been from unbelievable floods, tornadoes, major temperature rises, and it is coming across the united states from california to the east. and it is getting worse and worse. i think parents are fearful of what this planet with the

melting cis and the rising -- sea ice and the rising waters. if you look at things that concern parents the most, climate impacts,, you cannot vote for a party that lies about it. the republican party. if you care and worry about your kid being attacked in a school with an ar-15 where 60 bullets are shot into a classroom in under a minute, then you cannot vote republican. and you heard jd vance talking about the child tax credit which he did not vote on. the republicans voted down just like they voted the infrastructure bill down and tried to kill it. we have to get away from a party that is nothing but lies. i was watching the mom's of liberty right before you came on. here is a three-time adulteress adjudicated rapist that they are endorsing, the moms of liberty

with a draft dodger if you couch -- counties educational and bone spurs. you have to turn the page on -- because people are also stressed out by this constant sea of lies coming out of the republican party. i think it is damaging spirits. but if you look issue after issue, the republican party is the bigger problem, including inflation. host: we have your id. let us go to lou in highland park, illinois. caller: good morning. this is a terrific idea to discuss this problem. parents are having stress and worrying, they pass it on to their children without their knowledge. as much help as parents can get, i am in favor of.

it is financial, it is social, it is in attainment, everything in the country seems to be stressing parents. host: you suggested that you would want to support parents. i want to read the ideas that the u.s. surgeon general lays out as policy solutions to parental stress and i would like to hear your thoughts. for example "what national, territory, state and local tribal governments can do, promote and expand funding for programs that support parents and caregivers and their families. establish a national paid federal -- family and medical leave program and ensure that all workers have sick time. invest in social infrastructure at the local level to bring parents and caregivers together. address the economic and social barriers that contribute to the disproportionate impact of mental health conditions for certain parents and caregivers.

ensure parents and caregivers have access to comprehensive and affordable high-quality mental health care and promote visitation initiatives and reentry programming to support currently and formerly incarcerated parents and caregivers, as well as their families." do any of those ideas sound good or bad to you? caller: yes, especially the mental health part. this whole country is suffering from mental health problems, like the first caller mentioned. guns especially. how can parents think clearly if they are worried about their kids getting killed in schools? schools used to be the safest lays in america. now we have to worry about it? i endorse all of these parts of the plan, especially mental health. we need somewhere to go and to

improve our mental health and reduce our worry and grief. host: do you have kids? caller: i have kids and grandkids. host: how worried do you think you are about them in this case? caller: i think about it all the time. i think about -- my granddaughter just started driving and i am wondering is she going to be shot driving her car down the road? i am horribly, horribly worried about it. we need to take specific actions. host: dale in indiana. good morning. caller: good morning. host: good morning. go ahead. caller: yes. i am just wondering why single people have to keep paying for other people's kids. why do we get taxed more out of our paychecks when we do not have kids going to school?

and all of their free everything. somebody has to pay for all of this stuff that the democrats want to give away. host: sorry,, what do you think when you hear the vice presidential gop nominee jd vance saying that single people actually maybe need to be doing more and are not contributing to the economy or to the support of the country as much? caller: already have been. i mean, have you been around any of these kids lately? they are all disrespectful and half ignorant because they get taught i do know -- i do not know what this but -- aside from propaganda. they do not even know what bathroom to go into. you are telling me that when you are born you have the choice to know if you have an innie or outie.

host: brad ralph says "parents are at their wits end because the government is trying to groom and mold yourids against her family's morals." robert in texas. good morning. what are your thoughts? caller: this is a very interesting topic because i moved to help with my five grandchildren. i interact with the schools and every day. can you hear me? host: we can. what has interaction been like? caller: disappointing in some areas. and let me just -- what you just showed from ms. harris is closely related to children welfare. and when i watch c-span i especially watch booktv because i watched mark people -- smart

people, which you have. david rubenstein leads the list. he is the smartest person i have ever seen on c-span. he is good as an interviewer and when he gives a speech, which is rare. so when i invest, i intend to listen to what warren buffett has to say, who listens for hours and answers questions. so, the problem is related to children is that ms. harris knows nothing about taxes. you just showed her giving a speech where she is talking about childcare tax credit and so forth. she does not know anything about taxes. she has no knowledge of taxes compared to what mr. rubenstein, who can talk about several taxes. right now we have debates politically, which you already show and the media advocates.

we should be talking about jeopardy style formats that the public can show the intellect of the candidates. which i believe that they would fail miserably. thank you for letting me share my viewpoint on children, because it is vital to today's society that we value exceptionally smart people. thank you. host: robert was referencing the policy proposals from harris. there is a politico article in response laying out some of the policies that the candidates have proposed. "harris and trump's campaigns agreed that there is a problem and have jockeyed over which will do more to help families. harris has said she wants to restore pandemic era tax credits of up to $3600 per child and create a $6,000 credit for newborns.

other democratic platform proposals include providing a free universal preschool program for four-year-olds, paid leave, and childcare for less than $10 a day for working families. vance, who thinks that people are not having kids because of the cost, has floated doubling the child tax credit. trump is considering it, a campaign a trip -- official told semafor the next -- this month. asked on cbs news base a nation whether he agreed on the biden administration child tax credit that acts responded -- vance responded we think it should be larger." on facebook "how about parents actually raising their own children instead of ling them off to have someone else raise them? thural shift was telling mother's that they are on vo-- valuable if they have career. my belief washat why have children if you are only going

to give them up to the government or daycare to raise? i put my hair -- my career on hold for 20 years to raise my children." from new york. caller: thank you for having me on the call. i want to say something regarding the parental situation. a lot of people have families in jails and prisons. recently hr3019 was passed, the federal prison oversight act. this causes a lot of stress for parents, as myself. my son is in federal prison. we have no implementation whatsoever. we are supposed to have the ombundsman going to the prison to ask what is happening and how to fix it. mr. biden and president biden signed the bill, hr 3019, and it

was introduced from a georgian congressperson and we have it by law. that is being violated because it is not being enforced. we have no hotline that could assist us in constitutional violations going on in the bureau of prisons. so i am saying, maybe the surgeon general needs to go into the jails and prisons. maybe that might help reduce reduce it -- reduce the stresses. host: she was talking about the stress of being a parent with a child who is incarcerated. the sentencing project has research of parents of children while they are incarcerated and their children are outside. in a fact sheet from 2021, they say "in 2016 47% of people in state prisons and 57% in federal

prisons were parents of minor children. most parents in prison our fathers, 6000 2600 800 fathers compared to 57,700 of mothers. the number of fathers increased 48% and the number of mothers in prison increased 96% between 1991 and 2016." and a comment from facebook who says "the answer for parents or anyone else not be found in government." millard in kentucky. good morning. caller: good morning. first of all i would say i have been raised in a good home. i have nine siblings. what i would like to say is that i am one that believes that god created people and he also designed the home.

and i think that until we get back to that realization, we will have trouble. host: i think your experience being raised with eight siblings might be different than a lot of folks. how did you see the stress of the family affecting your own parents? and i'm curious to know if you are parent yourself? caller: i am actually not a parent yet. there were times where it was obviously stressful for them. however, my mom was a stay-at-home mom. and i think that is probably different from a lot as well. we have a good church family that helps and supported that. i would just say. i think that the answers are there, but they are not found in government. host: in your family's case it was community support through the church that helps? caller: i would say so, a lot. host: ok. go ahead.

sorry. caller: other networking as well. other moms shared with, that is a big thing. host: john in lowell, massachusetts. good morning. caller: good morning and happy saturday, thank you for taking my call. i put it on the media that they should ask everyone the interview if you do not accomplish this goal within two years after they are elected will you resign? i think it will get a lot more honesty out of politicians. those blue things over your left and right shoulders on the set, what are those? is that rain screen or are you looking out the window? host: it is a light between studio monitors. they have cameras on the capital. it is just the lights between three separate screens. caller: that is not glass, a

video screen. host: no. caller: thank you, have a good day. st: on facebook scott says " having grown up in ay that did not have much this pic reminds me of my now deceased mother's struggles that she had. my generation was the first to see the traditional faall apart and have lazy irresponsible men that did not fulfill their rofather or husband. the only solution is to encourage people not to in every way for the enormousy spots ability. i am a trump voter and have never had children since i did no to become my father's son. this is a one big disagreement that i have rump's running mate. he should be thanking people for me for not having kids that we cannot care for instead of chastising us." if you would like to call in with your thoughts on parental stress as a serious public health concern we are doing regional phone lines for eastern and central time zones,

202-748-8000. for the mountain and pacific time zones, 202-748-8001. and remember that you can text us at 202-748-8003. next up, john in vermont. in morning. caller: hello and thank you for taking my call. young people model the behavior that they see adults exhibiting. and when i look at the u.s. foreign policy, we are just every day it leads the news how many billions of dollars in guns, ammo and missiles and how many aircraft carriers we are sending and spending billions and billions of dollars to push war, to push violence and impose our will on other places. and then we turn around and we say our young people and teenagers should all just get along and should not fight and

should not have turf wars and should not be angry and stressed. take a look in the mirror at who you are voting for to push these policies that we see every single day, and realize that those are the adults modeling behavior that young people exhibit. it is the fault of our policy why people are so stressed. and then the government comes around and says we want -- the surgeon general comes around and says we want to help with your stress. it is much house and proxy syndrome, you are causing the stress and then you want to be the one to solve it? no. stop doing what you are doing and people will get back to normal. but with the craziness going on in washington and foreign policy, there is no way that young people cannot feel stressed. we are on the brink of world war iii again which is a wonderful feeling. host: that stress passing onto

parents as well. more from the op-ed from the surgeon general said "the new york timesiece," "in the pt few years we have made progress expanding access to early childhood education, maternal health programs and a mental health crisis hotline for kids and adults. we have ore to do, however, to make parenting sustainable. this means bolstering financial suppr families,ding child tax credits. it also means ensuring that all parents can get paid time off to be with a by or a sick d, secure and affordable childcare when they needed and have access to reliable mental alth care for themselves and their children. and it requires addressing per se -- pervasive soof anguish and worry that parents are often left to manage on their own, including the harms of social media and the scourge of gun violence." that was in "the new york times"

op-ed. from x "this is what happens when you create a society where both parents have to work full time just to scrape by while at the same time childcare is unaffordable." there is a story about that and how expensive it is to have a family these days. having a family is expensive and here is what harris and trump have set about using those costs. they say "the high cost for carrying for children and the elderly has forced women out of the workforce, devastated family finances and let professional caretakers in low-wage jobs all while slowing economic growth. that families are suffering is not up for debate. as the economy emerges as a theme in this presidential election, the democratic and easing costs that reveal their divergent views about family. on this topic, the two tickets have one main commonality.

both presidential candidates and their running mates have come at one point or another, backed and expanded child tax credit. democratic presidential nominee tim walz, in his dnc expect that acceptance speech, promoted some of that profamily policies key in particular put in place while he was governor of minnesota. [video clip] >> then i came back to serve as governor, and we got right to work, making a difference in our neighbors' lives. we cut taxes for the middle class. we passed paid family and medical leave. we invested in fighting crime and affordable housing. we cut the cost of prescription drugs and helped people escape the kind of medical debt that nearly sank my family. and we made sure every kid in our state gets breakfast and

lunch every day. [cheers] host: we are talking about parental stress as a serious public health concern. we will hear next from bonnie in lancaster, pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. i am a woman, of course, and what i want to say is this -- i think i heard a program back years ago on the c-span listener that, if you look at how much one makes, compared to how much one spends for fast food or whatever, there are plenty of not only middle-class about the one who makes the most money, whether it is the woman or whether it is the man, stays at home. why is it that the amish in our

area and the mennonites, they can homeschool, they can raise a family, they do not need a house with five bedrooms. i was raised with four brothers, and my four brothers slept in two sets of bunk beds. we had three bedrooms, and i had the smallest one. the stress is being brought on by society wanting better. there is nothing wrong with a woman working, but if she is working and working for money, to go to mcdonald's and cook and whatever, look at the basic -- a basic cost of raising a family. i've been told recently, by my cousin, who has nz and millennials, that you do not have to get married today. kids have kids to have a child, and they do not need to get

married. so i think the generation of the gen z's in the millennials, they truly have to learn responsibility for having a child. what are your thoughts? host: well, this show is about your thoughts, not mine, but thank you for your call. next, andrew in columbia, maryland, parents of eight 3-year-old and 6-year-old. my wife and i have household come of lesshan $200,00d that does not go far enough to even save for a townhouse. the daycare costsmall children is easily $20,000. summer cr wh school is out is nearly $2000 a mor not even a full eight hour workday daycare. we are lucky if we have a carr that lets us do pickups and drop-offs. we have no free time to upskill for our careers, etc. it feels a bit like drowning. the u.s. census bureau has data

on the rising costs of childcare and how much of a challenge this is for working parents, like andrew, who just wrote in. and the rising cost of childcare services in the united states has created a challenge for many working parents. should they keep paying for childcare, just work schedules to reduce expenses, or leave the workforce? between 2014 and 2021, estimated revenue of employer firms classified as child day care services increased all but one year, 2020. the national database of childcare prices, which reports childcare costs in 2360 counties shows childcare expenses are untenable for families throughout the country and highlights the urgent need for greater federal investments, according to the u.s. department of labor. a brief drawing of a available

data across 47 states shows childcare prices for a single child ranged from $4810 a year for school-aged, home-based care in small counties to 15,000 or hundred $17 for infant and center-based care in large counties. one adjusted for inflation, this equals between 5050 $37 -- these price ranges were equivalent to between and 8% and a 19.3% of median family income per child in paid family health care. albert is in stockton, california. good morning. caller: morning. i just have left to hear the last few callers talking about the foreign affairs and all the money being spent over there, but i will leave it with this -- i truly believe it is about education.

i went to kindergarten in stockton, california. and i went to high school in a couple years in junior college. somewhere in there, they told us, with this population, we would end up with this problem. i work for a and northern california that takes us all over california, and we have all the same that stuff going on outside -- i will say outside humans or whatever. what i do know is kids cannot -- when my kid walked to school down the creek, i go to the richest to the poorest neighborhoods. people have to pick up their kids that live a block. you have 50 cars, like a car lot, sitting or idle waiting for their kid right there. that is pollution, i hate that. i'm just saying, it is ridiculous -- host: so you're saying.

-- parents are so worried or stressed about their children they have to drive where otherwise they could walk their kids to and from school? caller: i work in construction. the -- people by places because they are close to schools, so their kids -- i am not up to five years ago or whatever, and my brothers re-rent houses for people care the first thing they want to know, they can see the school -- whether it is a block or two. i would walk to high school. my kindergarten in high school was right on the block and i could walk. everybody was walking to school. even the kid getting up -- i do not know if we beat the kid to beat the kid up. we all walked and took care of

each other. anyway, i'll will leave it like that. i believe truly it starts with build the wall and stop the fentanyl. i do not know what is going on, but we need some mental help out here. my mother did what the state hospital -- host: i will stop you there. let's go to elizabeth in new orleans. good morning. go ahead. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i think parental stress is coming from the increase in prices. the last time i went to the store, -- it used to be $.99. it went up to $1.99, then $3.99. i think customers should be empowered to go to the stores where they are jacking up prices, take a picture of these,

and take it to the consumer protection agency. we need to fight back, because it is ridiculous. i do not know if the costs are justified. this increase in prices is going to the corporate profits at the expense of the parents. no wonder the parents are stressed. host: robert douglas says, on x, speaking as a pare has seen share of stresses and difficulty, universal basic inme would go a long way towards helping you parents raise their children, especially those who have struggled just to find work and make ends meet. richard is in tennessee. good morning. and can you turn down the volume on your tv, then go ahead? caller: oh, yes. good morning and how are you? host: good, thank you. caller: my tv down low enough?

host: i think so. caller: i apologize kid i want to welcome all the caller and sam glad they can talk about all these things and we can get different points of view. it is so beautiful, when i listen to you guys. i've been watching c-span for many, many years. you guys are beautiful. i wanted to say it. i am a parent. i am a grandparent. i am a great and parent care when i grew up, there were 21 children and our home -- i lived in a foster home for a number of years. my foster parents -- i call them grandma and grandpa, because they are like grandparents to me, and i love them to death. when i grew up in long beach, california, there was a culture of inference, you know, african-americans, asians -- culture of difference, you know, african-americans, asians, south koreans.

we helped each other like we were supposed to. today, their social media and all this stuff. but doesn't god say you should provide your needs, not your w ants? you should all know for what you need before you want it. young people are all i want this, i want that. there's nothing wrong with wanting things, but shouldn't you earn them -- host: are you saying parental stress is due to financial choices of the parents or the demands of the children? caller: i think it is a combination of the entire village that is not the way we grew up, i guess. the way i grew up on my block, i drew up across from a polytechnic high school, which i graduated from, which is where prince came from and snoop dogg, of all people -- cool but i did not know them.

i was proud to go to high school anyway. i grew up with good moral values. i always worked for a living. i used to wash cars, mow lawns, it didn't matter. nowadays, it is hard to get anybody even to pick up the laundry on the floor of their bedroom. it's like, oh, my god, what is going on here? host: let's go to sarah in houston. good morning. caller: hi, good morning. i was calling because it would have been nice for the surgeon general also to say that eldercare is also a serious public health concern. it is not just parental stress taking care of children but children having to take care of their parents. there are also serious financial issues to address when trying to make sure parents are getting proper medical care, etc.

so it is kind of curious why that segment is often left out of the conversation. host: i am double checking to see if this is in the report, because i have seen a few other references to eldercare in a lot of the reporting around this, which is, indeed, a concern. let's hear from chuck in louisville, kentucky. good morning. caller: yes. the word today is change. each party wants to change as it relates to health care very much. change health care.com. you can look it up. both sides want change -- host: sorry, we lost you for a

moment. could you say that point again? caller: start over from the beginning? host: no, just that last bit. caller: change health care.com. this is a company that holds 2% of our health insurance nationwide. it started out with change health care -- i mean it went from change health care to -- host: how do you think this affects how stressed parents are doing these days? caller: well, the change in health care took over united health care, which is 60% of nationwide insurance companies. host: ok. let's go to ronald in north

carolina. good morning. caller: morning. i am calling about kamala harris . she's a prosecutor, and that is what she has done all these years. prosecutors are bad about using word salad -- host: and how does this relate to parental stress? caller: to what? host: how does this rate to -- relate to parental stress and the u.s. surgeon general's health advisory about the stress parents are under these days? caller: while having a prosecutor trying to run our country and she is lying about everything from is saying -- what kind of leader we have like that? that will confuse our whole nation. host: ok. doug is in arkansas. good morning. caller: yeah, parental stress, yeah. surgeon general. i do not know why anybody would

listen to anything the surgeon general has to say or advise people on. how many people does that person actually have, raising kids? in this day and age, with social apps and phones and all the other nonsense going on, you are going to elect tim walz as the vp? that guy is a pedophile. host: next is josephine in new york area good morning. caller: good morning. i feel that the government -- can you hear me? host: yes, we can hear you. caller: i feel the government should not be involved in parental things as far as saying what children should be taught, what books they should read. i also feel that, being in new york, the most difficult thing

people are having is the price gouging. there are many good fathers but there are many deadbeat fathers, single mothers, and it is very difficult. i've grown children and grandchildren. you worry when they go outside because of the violence. you worry because you think people will abduct them. i think people having to work, because they want to have cars d all these things that are not -- are necessary, yes, but therere more important things. like somebody in the household with their children, you know, so they feel safe. that is very important to me. i grew up in the bronx. but i had my mom there and felt safety. one there is no parents in the home, the kids run amok, because there's nobody to say, teach

them things gay than their parents get overwhelmed because they do not know what to do, because everything is so expensive. 100 $50 for a pair of sneakers. a gallon of milk, underwear, everything is crazy. whether government should do is stop organizations from price gouging and stop giving money -- i am not saying don't help other people in need, but stop giving them millions and millions of dollars to everybody else and help the people here. they shouldn't put it on people that don't have children. it shouldn't be someone else's responsibility to raise your children. if you decide to have children, that is your responsibility. you have to give up things care that means you -- you have to give up things. that means you can't get your fingernails done or go to the police, you take care of your

children. host: you are referencing the high cost of many things, and one thing that is particularly relevant to many parents is the high cost of childcare. care.com has a look at how much childcare costs in 2010 before, and they say childcare has long been one of the largest expenses for families, and in order to meet that expense, according to the care.com 2024 cost of care report, families are using their savings and their household income. within the first five years of their child's life, parents are being forced into a financial hole that is nearly impossible to climb out of, and a healthy economy depends on people to spend, but giving the crushing childcare costs, that is conkling. it is a systemic failure that will impact our nation's economic growth, and that

affects us all. some of the key findings include that childcare is considered affordable when it costs families no more than 7% of their household income. yet, on average, according to the care survey, respondents are spending 24% of their household income on childcare versus 27% in the previous year, with 60% spending 20% or more as compared to 67% last year and 84% spending 10% or more compared to 89% last year. gop vice presidential nominee jd vance book on ways he and former president trump would address the rising cost of health care in the u.s. [video clip] >> we of course want to give everybody access to childcare, but in my family, i grew up in a poor family when that childcare was migrant parents get a lot of

these childcare proposals do nothing for grandparents. if you look at some of these proposals, they do nothing for stay-at-home moms or dads. i want us to have a childcare policy that is good for all families, not just a particular model of family. >> what do you mean by that? they would be a credit per kid if it is a stay-at-home mom, a credit per kid for a stay-at-home grandma? >> that is exactly what i proposed. that is exactly what we have proposed, both publicly, and i talked about doing privately. i am just saying i do not want us to favor one family model over another. if you have grandparents at home taking care of the kids, they should be treated the same way as other family models by their government. gay families -- like >> gay f amilies would be included? >> of course, all families would be included. host: senator vance mentioned campaigns taking care of children. the u.s. census data has it on

that, grandparents living with children, and found southern states have a higher than average share of adults aged 30 or older who lived with grandchildren. about 6.7 million people, or 3% of adults aged 30 and over, lived with their grandchildren in 2021. alaska, hawaii, and states in the southeast and southwest had a higher chair of grandparent-grandchildren households than the national average, while state in the northeast, midwest, and pacific northwest had lower shares. here is a map of how that percentage plays out of the people living with her bright pink there being folks -- states that have a higher than average percentage of people living with grandchildren and the lighter purple being those lower than average. mary is in mississippi. good morning. caller: good morning. wow, this is a huge problem in

the united states, and so many variables to it. first of all, i would like to comment on kamala's speech that you showed in the beginning. this child tax credit and the earned income credit has been going on for a long time. i've been retired 10 years, and when i was working, i worked with a lot of single mothers who started, in november, telling us what they would purchase with their child tax credit and their earned income credit, and it was things like tattoos and vacations and dogs that cost $800. i think the government should monitor these credits, the money we are spending, that we are giving these young people.

the money should be monitored and should not be used as vacation money. also, i think the problems in our country started years ago, when mothers started working, leaving their children at home, and that is when the children got out of control. the data says all teenage pregnancies, most of them happened between the time of 3:00 and 5:00 p.m., when nobody's at home -- host: i want to hear the rest of your points, but just to follow-up on a point you made about how people spent their child tax credits and the stories you heard from women, i wanted to see what data was available about how most people spend those dollars, and the bureau of labor statistics did a study looking at how most people spend that extra funding from

the american rescue act -- american rescue plan act of 2021 that expanded child tax credits. what the bureau of labor statistics found is families utilized the child tax credit payments to enhance the well-being of both their children and the entire household. for each $100 of child tax credit payment, models should they mainly spent it on food, housing, and child related goods and services. we also found the spending response for low income households, hispanic households, and non-hispanic black household was larger than the spending as much of the average household care by analyzing the variations of spending in response by race and ethnicity, we are providing lawmakers with valuable insights into the expanse of marginalized communities. just some additional contacts on

top of what you saw from your individual experience working with families. caller: right. it is my experience, what i saw. it was very discuss -- i mean, i do not know. i worked a lot of years to get to where my salary -- i worked 33 years. when you add in the child tax credit and earned income credit, these girls, who were only working a year, made more money than i did. it was very disheartening. i am not saying all the people that get this money do that, but i am saying there is a big majority of waste in these programs. host: mary highlighted the role of taxes and all of this. semaphore has a story that the

2025 tax war started early as harris and trump vie over the child tax credit. donald trump is weighing whether to endorse an expanded $5,000 child tax credit, and the former president's interest and possibly boosting the credit comes after vice president kamala harris unveiled a multi trillion dollar economic platform a few weeks ago. that includes a $6,000 child tax credit for parents raising newborns in their first year. trump's vice presidential nominee proposed a $5,000 child tax credit that would apply to all american families. jerry is in virginia. good morning. caller: good morning. look, we got to get away from this notion that the government is responsible for everything we do. the government does not make things that are, the government makes things worse.

we need to get away from this idea that the government is an answer to all of our woes. we need to stop electing all these socialists/communists who want to risk all -- who want to control every aspect of our lives. we are responsible for raising our children, not the government. we need to get bible classes back in schools. host: ok. warren is in florida. good morning. caller: good morning. i have a lot to say, but your last caller, about adding bible classes back in school, i guess i will just touch on that. first of all, that does not need to happen. in the caller before him, i kind

of agree with her. i think it is enough that needs to be addressed that, if you get something from the government -- host: you're talking about her point about people, in her view, wasting money from the child tax credits? caller: exactly. i think there should be some kind of way to monitor. and i know it would be big, but i would hope, on a local level, there should be a way of monitoring whether it is spent at all. i've heard some of the same things. not on a wide scale. but it is enough to say you should not be doing it. host: do you think that kind of monitoring should apply only to the child tax credit or how people expend all tax credits?

caller: well, when there is a particular credit, perhaps like that -- when it came to the rescue or whatever, it was a very good plan. i think some people should have credit where credit is due. it saved a lot of starving families. at the same time, you have people -- when you got people taking advantage of it in the wrong way, i do not think it should be monitoring across-the-board. that is not what i am saying. i am saying when particular is like that happen, you know. host: that is all the time we have for our callers in this

segment. thank you to everyone who waited in. up next, we hear from reverend heather taylor of the greek bread for the world, discussing some of what came up in this past segment, rising food prices. and the impact on food insecurity in the united states. later, patrick mcglocklin of george mason university's mercatus center will be here to discuss the most and least -- later, patrick mclaughlin of george mason university's mercatus center will be be here to discuss the most and least regulated states. ♪ >> american, exploring the people and events that tell the american story. the national portrait valerie's prints and drawings curator takes a look at an exhibit that tells the story of american

women who went to paris who hoped to make a mark on the arts. watch the conclusion of our american history tv series, historic convention speeches, featuring notable or marks by nominees and other figures. this week, texas governor george w. bush accepted his party nomination in philadelphia. exploring the american story can watch american history tv every weekend,nd find the full schedule on your program guide, or watch online anytime at c-span.org/history. >> book tv. every sunday on c-span 2. it features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. -- at the riverbend

maximum-security visitation in tennessee in his book "death row welcomes you." at 7:00 p.m., form hawaii congresswoman tulsi gabbard talks about why she left the democratic party and became an independent. beginning at 8:00 p.m., we feature books about the january 6 riot at the u.s capitol, starting wh e book "the war within, a collection -- "the war within," a collection of essays. later, on booktv.org. >> that c-span bookshelf podcast

feed. you can discover new authors and ideas. each week, we make it convenient for you to listen to multiple episodes, with critically acclaimed authors discussing history, biographies, current events, and culture from our signature programs. listen to c-span's bookshelf podcast feed today. you can find the podcast and all of our podcasts on the free c-span now mobile app, or wherever you get podcasts, and on our website, c-span.org/pod casts. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back. we are joined by reverend heather taylor, the managing director of bread for the world. welcome to "washington journal." guest: thank you. good morning. it is great to be here. host: what is bread for the world? guest: bread for the world is a

christian nonpartisan advocacy organization that urges members of congress to pass legislation, policies, and programs that can help end hunger. we also work with community groups and congregations of all denominations and interfaith coalitions as well, to join in this mission, and to engage in the work of advocacy. host: what does it mean to be a christian advocacy group in particular? guest: it is a rate question, and i have to refer to our president, who often says that god cares about people, and policies, by far, impact people. so we, as christians, should care about policies and the ultimate impact they have on individuals in our nation and around the world. host: with bread for the world, how do you get your funding, and

what kind of differentiation can you make for us between bread for the world as a 501(c) organization and affiliate groups, bread for the world institute and the alliance to end hunger, which are 501(c)(3)'s? guest: we, being true to our mission and commitment to remain nonpartisan, we do not receive government funding. but we do receive funding from individuals, individual donors and private foundations, as well as congregations. we have our institute, a 501(c)(3), that engages in research. and also analyzes data provided by relevant agencies, such as the usda, the department of agriculture, for example. the (c)(4) allows us to engage in advocacy work. the alliance to end hunger is an

institution with which we are no longer affiliated, although we are a partner with the alliance, so just to clarify that, in the past, we were a signal -- single and situation. they are now fully autonomous, but we very much partner with this group that also engages corporations and so-called secular institutions in the work . host: let's talk about something that is on so many peoples minds -- the price of food. you published a poll last month that found that 64% of americans said inflation was a very serious problem, and when it comes to inflation, several surveys have suggested americans were most concerned about grocery prices. i want to bring in some data from you all, from bread for the world, that 66% of amerins report living paycheck-to-paycheck, including 72% of women.

black, hispanic, and native american adults are two times more to face insecurity than their white counterparts. 44 million americans facing food insecurity. one in five children do not know where their next meal will come from. can you talk about what you have seen in your work with the rising cost of food and how that is directly affecting insecurity in the united states? guest: absolutely. the reality, as you described in this data, is people are struggling. inflation has increased about 19% since 2020, so for the last four years. what we know is food prices have risen about 25%. this is a stable item. we also know at least 42 million americans struggle with hunger. how do we know this? we know this by the number of individuals who are

participating in the s.n.a.p. program, the supplemental nutrition assistance program, formally food stamps, and it is still the most effective antihunger program in this nation. so it is important the program be strengthened. i did have an opportunity to listen a little to some of the discussion and some of the callers who spoke previously, and there was mention of the american rescue plan. one of the items that was put forward in that plan was strengthening the s.n.a.p. program, and it is something we must continue to do. we have certainly witnessed not only individuals who participate in this program but also the number of individuals who benefited from stronger programs put in place, likely s.n.a.p. program, the child tax credit,

to provide relief for families at a time when they are still struggling, even pass the pandemic. host: you mentioned the s.n.a.p. program get i want to bring in data from the usda about the usage of that program. this is a supplemental nutrition assistance program. 41.4 million americans participate in this proam. 22 million participating households. the average benefit per person -- nine the average monthly that if it per household, $349,000 and $.49, as of august 9. what are some of the other major food assistance programs, and where do they stand? guest: sure. one program i think certainly worth mentioning is the w.i.c.k. program, a nutrition program for women, infants, and children. the certainly must focus on

strengthening this program. it was also expanded during the pandemic. there were certain benefits, such as allowing individuals to certify, to be certified remotely, so they would not need to be burdened with transportation or capitation costs. we know this program helps safeguard about 7 million women, infants, and children, so we want to make sure we continue to strengthen this program. while it is not dubbed as a nutrition program, i want to spend a little time talking about the child tax credit and how important it is to expand ctc. an important data point i think worth sharing also, continuing some of the discussion taking place previously, is the fact that the number one item that households spent income from the child tax credit on is food,

more than any other expense. the ctc also helped the food insecurity rate reduced by about 25 percent. the 20 -- the cdc also helped cut child poverty nearly in half. this has been one of the most effective anti-poverty measures that was put in place and probably a decade. it is important to think about these programs and policies holistically. when we look at things like ctc, we at bread for the world and those who partner with us see this as a major way to address nutrition -- host: to highlight that point, i will bring back that data from the bureau of labor statistics that you are saying the number one thing people spent child tax credit money on was food. specifically, for every $100 people receive from the child tax credit, they spent $75

mainly on food, housing, and child related goods and services. after housing, the number one thing is food. guest: thank you for that. so it is a critical program. it is especially important, especially on this labor day weekend as we think about workers and how they contribute to american society and the support they need, what better way to honor american workers and households then to ensure individuals, who are working, receive a living wage. we at bread see this as a critical strategy to ensure families have the ability to sustain themselves and put food on the table. as we think about the living wage, it is important to focus on the minimum wage as well. we know the minimum wage, at a federal level, was last set in 2009 care that is before the

pandemic, before inflation as we have witnessed, is skyrocketing and has yet been adjusted. we contend it should be increased to about $15 an hour and it should be adjusted to accommodate inflation moving forward. these are some of the key policies that we want to see and know our essential kit again, that's s.n.a.p., that's the child tax credit, to ensure it is expanded, that we continue to strengthen the w.i.c. program, and we also ensure american workers have the dignity of receiving a living wage. host: before we get to our callers, can you describe some terms are give us some definitions? what is meant when people say "food insecurity"? and what is your on experience with food insecurity? guest: it is a great question. we fully appreciate, a lot of

times, language can get a bit wonky. food sitting -- like -- food insecurity refers to a situation, oftentimes children, for example, may lack the resources to consistently access enough food to live a healthy lifestyle. so if folks can't consistently get a good meal, then they are probably finding themselves in a food insecure state. i make no bones about the fact i am very passionate about this issue, because i did personally experience food insecurity throughout my childhood and young adult life. i was raised by a single parent, like so many people in this nation. we know a quarter of our nation's children are reared in single-parent households. my mom was a working mom, and yet, she struggled to put

nutritious food on the table. and we experienced food insecurity outright. the trend continued when i was blessed to go to college. a lot of times, hunger, food insecurity, is hidden in our nation's campuses. there is an assumption that, because some people are there, that they are privileged and are eating well, but so many of them were like myself, where i cou ldn't afford a decent meal plan. i had to procure the cheapest one, and that meant i was either skipping meals or i was relying on nutrition deficient foods, like bagels and ramen noodles. some students joke around this is a rite of passage, but the reality is when an individual adult is facing one of the more stressful periods of transitioning -- it being away from home, juggling work -- i held two jobs as well -- juggling their studies, then not

having food to eat, it is a real problem. but there are things we can do as a nation to get people a leg up. food banks and charities are great care they are necessary -- thanks and charities are great. they are necessary. but they cannot solve the problem -- host: i saw you had an op-ed with the headline women and children are at risk of going hungry, congress must act now to fully fund the food program. what legislation is coming down the pipeline? what's in play where congress has the ability to actually address food insecurity in the united states? guest: thank you for asking that question. to be clear, when i talk about the w.i.c. program, this is a program that thankfully was only funded in the last legislation that governed appropriations, in part because of collective

efficacy. we want to make sure it continues to be funded in 2025 and beyond. it is also important we continue to fund the s.n.a.p. program. again, it is the most effective antihunger program in america. some may or may not know that the s.n.a.p. program is governed by a piece of legislation called the farm bill. the farm bill is reauthorized every five years. it was up or reauthorization in 2023, but congress effectively kicked the can. they did not reauthorized it. they extended the previously version, which is ok as a temporary measure, but it must be reauthorized, either by the end of this year or next year. it is essential we protect s.n.a.p. it is essential s.n.a.p. is not cut, either in the short or long term, but that people are able to participate in the program,

have the food they need, and be able to sustain their families with nutritious diets. host: we are ready to take your calls on the rising cost of food and hunger in america. in the eastern and central time zones, you can call us at (202) 748-8000. mountain and pacific time zones, (202) 748-8001. then we have a special line if you do currently receive federal benefits. call us at (202) 748-8002. and just for a little more detail on what we mean by receiving federal benefits that might help you for the cost of food, we are talking about things like temporary assistance for needy families, medicaid, the sampling -- the supplement nutrition assistance program, s.n.a.p., people may also call it stands, the earned income tax credit, housing assistance, things like that. let's hear from chris in north

carolina. good morning. caller: good morning, how are you? host: good, thank you. caller: i'm listening to all of the programs and all the different symptoms, i call them, of what is going on as a bigger picture of inflation and what it has done to our nation, with so many people in need here. and we are still trying to police the world and do things for the world and help people across the world, which is great. i understand the heart to tell people being attacked overseas. we are only as good as sweeping our own doorsteps first. we have to take care of our people here to be able to help those abroad. with so many people flooding our borders and coming in and having to take care of them, before even our own people, and i know,

in my family's case, we have an elderly sister where, years ago, once you depleted all your money, medicare would step in and help when you needed housing or living assistance. now, if you make $4 too much on social security, you do not even get that. host: reverend taylor, what chris lays out is a struggle for many people trying to navigate government assistance programs to get themselves food and also meeting those different thresholds. and you talk a bit about that? guest: sure. i think the important thing to remember is the programs are here and that every one of the programs i mentioned are serving folks who are right here in the united states, and that these programs are proven to work. it is critical to continue to

engage our local government, our federal government to protect these programs, and also to access these programs. i appreciate the comments about the situation at the border. certainly, there is a crisis there. what we do know is what is available to those who are right here at home in the u.s., so continuing to focus on strengthening them is a way forward. host: chris also mentioned the rising cost of groceries, like many other folks day. the new york times looked at the and you will -- annual change in grocery prices in the u.s. over time gave you can see the big spike right after -- as the pandemics at away and down, which many of us saw food prices jumped in the 13% to 14% range. this is for food at home, not seasonally adjusted. but the food inflation for

grocery prices went down in june 2024 paid i should highlight we are talking about the rate of inflation, not that prices were going down, but the speed at which they increased is down in june of 2024. roland is in detroit. good morning. caller: hi. i have a question for reverend taylor. first of all, i applaud you for trying to make the world a better place. my concern is first of all, a few years ago, my financial floor fell through. i reached out to some food banks for assistance. what i noticed was the quality of the food was horrific. salt, canned goods, all that kind of stuff. it seems like, in this country,

we're robbing people of their health and paying hospitals and pharmaceuticals. do you and your organization have any concern about the quality of food in america? i mean, look around the world, other countries, people are very healthy. they may have problems with war and stuff like that, but in america, the quality of the food is horrible. and if you do not have enough money to buy food, you may need to adjust and stop eating all of that toxic, dangerous food. host: all right, reverend taylor? guest: thank you for that. i appreciate the question. yes, indeed, we are concerned about the quality of food. it is our hope and intention to

ensure individuals have access to nutritious food. not just food but nutritious food and have a healthy diet. that is why we are so concerned about food prices. we know the cost of eggs doubled over the past four years. the cost of fruits and vegetables continues to remain high. it is not only the cost of food generally, filler foods, but how much does it cost to ensure a healthy diet? these are the kinds of issues we are focused on, even as we advocate around s.n.a.p. and ensuring adjustments are made, not only for inflation generally in food prices, but there are accommodations for what it means and what it costs to provide yourself and/or your family a healthy diet. as continued food prices rise,

we want to make sure programs like s.n.a.p. are responsive. and on a personal note, when i think back to my childhood and our experience, we were, a lot of times, eating nutrition deficient foods, because that is what people can afford. people are trying to stretch their benefits, stretch their dollars. things like rice, pasta, hot dogs, and vienna sausages, things that are high in salt, high in sugar, and don't have a lot of nutrition value. it is critical we are not just handing out benefits, per se, but we are educating individuals about healthy diets and enabling them to purchase the kinds of foods they can ingest for a healthy lifestyle. host: this additional data on what you're talking about, usafacts has numbers pulled from the sensors and other numbers

about american struggling to afford enough food. as of october 2023, 53% of american adults were able to access and afford the foods they wanted all the time. 1 out of every 8 americans are struggling to afford enough food. nearly 28 million adults nationwide, 12.5 percent of the adult population were living at homes, in homes, where there was sometimes are often not enough to in the last week. joe is in missouri. good morning. caller: hi. hey there. i noticed that when walmart raised their minimum wage or their pay, everything else went up in the store, too. so raising the minimum wage just makes everything more expensive. i think our minimum wage is about $12, going to go to $15. everything else will go up.

also, if you're are having a hard time making it in life, you got to finish high school. you got to think about your future. i know people who do not want to go to work, because then they will have to pay their own electric wills and rent, because right now, some government agency is paying for them, so she does not want to take a $16 an hour job, because then she will have to pay her own rent. walmart is not the place to shop anymore. it is too expensive. host: joe makes two points and want to hear thoughts on. first, what we know about what happened in places where they raise the minimum wage in terms of overall cost and overall well-being? guest: i will speak to overall well-being, but i do want to touch on cost, because we know that prices of so many things are going up, including food.

that's what we are talking about here today, housing gas, so across-the-board. it's difficult to try to pinpoint the rise in prices generally just to the minimum wage. however, what we do know is people, when they have purchasing power and a bit more income, as we saw with the expanded child tax credit and as we saw with those participating in the s.n.a.p. program, that it enable them to have a bit more freedom to be able to purchase other household goods, to be able to tend to medical expenses. we know when we invest in these kind of programs, for every $1 investment in s.n.a.p. results in aboutas we continue to give e freedom in terms of their own finances and flexibility, often it results in stimulating the

local economy. that's an overall benefit for folks individually as well as within communities at large. host: i want to follow-up on two points that joe raised. in terms of what is to blame for rising prices, market watch has a story on that, what is to blame for the spike in grocery prices. according to a new york analysis, a story from last week. they looked at the narrative that corporate price gouging may be to blame. according to the new york fed analysis written before vice president harris's proposal came out, rising profit margins for grocery stores and food producers are not necessarily to blame. the analysis written by thomas kierkegaard did acknowledge margins have gone up for these companies. citing government data, margins

at food and beverage retail stores went from 2.9% 4.4% in 2023. that's equivalent to roughly $10 billion of a $100 billion increase in revenue. instead, he laid the blame on two factors. one was the huge spike in agricultural and livestock prices. the other is commodity prices. the other factor behind the surge was a large wage increases for grocery workers since 2019. wages have risen by 15 percentage points more than those in the food manufacturing sector or the workforce as a whole. these are low-paying jobs. about $13 an hour less than the private sector average but less low-paying than before. then you are fed blaming rising grocery prices -- the new york fed blaming rising grocery

prices on a small portion of corporate profits, supply chain cost and the third being wages for grocery workers. the other point joe raised was about walmart specifically. usa today has a story about walmart lowering prices on thousands of items except the stubborn food aisle. walmart lowered the cost of 7200 products this summer through the company's rollback. one section is more stubborn when it comes to dropping prices. despite the rollbacks, walmart still has inflation in the food category in the second quarter. any additional thoughts on some of those follow-up points to what joe said? guest: thank you. i appreciate you sharing the information. i have a couple of thoughts. it harkens back to the pandemic itself when we saw a lot of supply chain issues that

impacted the cost of agriculture, the cost of food. we have seen that has not been reduced since. even though some of the supply chain issues have been addressed but not all. while it seems far away i think it is still worth mentioning that what we have conflict and wars and other places that impact food and items even that we import here, and gas prices as well. all of this feeds in. it is more complex. not to say we shouldn't focus on the relationship of wages but it is a much more complex issue. i thank you for raising all the can tripping factors. host: leotis in chicago. caller: how are you, reverend taylor? guest: i'm glad to be here. genuinely. caller: thank you for your

clarification on food insecurity and providing that definition. in that situation when you were a college student what could you have done as a college student to prevent food insecurity? my follow-up is,he role of higher education or adult education vending food insecurity? -- preventing food insecurity? guest: that's an excellent question. i'm also passionate about focusing on college hunger and ways we can address it. something we are focusing on now is what we refer to as the s.n.a.p. gap. there is a huge gap between the number of students who may be eligible for the s.n.a.p. program and those who access it. i did not -- i didn't know

anything about it when i was a college student. i did not know this was available to me to supplement the foods i was trying to get on my own or the meal plan i had in place. i think colleges and universities have a significant role in increasing awareness when they are consulting with students and financial aid offices. also, another possible mechanism, and there's a piece of legislation that speaks to this, is the financial aid form, often referred to as the fafsa. every student must complete this form to clearly convey their financial circumstances before they enter a college or university. as they fill out the form they discover what they are eligible for. things like pell grant for example. wouldn't it make sense to also convey whether or not that

particular student may have access to s.n.a.p.? i want to acknowledge there are a number of campuses and universities that are starting to acknowledge the degree of hunger and the degree of how the problem exists. they are setting up food banks. there are students who are contribute into these banks so it is a multipronged approach. increasing awareness and making it a part of the financial aid package i think is a critical piece. that awareness certainly would have helped. for me, i speak personally, i did what i could. i was a resident assistant to take care of my housing costs. still worked one to two part-time jobs to take care of other costs like books. cost of books are astronomical. it is not just tuition. you have books and day-to-day expenses such that the amount

left for food is smaller and smaller. there are things that can be done. host: beaulah in tennessee. good morning. caller: good morning. my statement is the following. i know what the bible says about taking care of the ones that are needy. we have caused this for ourselves by eliminating ffa and the future farmers of america, home economics that future homemakers of america. as a young person my brothers and sisters and i worked gardens set up by my grandmother and we picked blackberries. a person can have a garden anywhere, whether they are in a big city or out in the country. it is important that we start --

go back to the old home places or the old landmark and start teaching individuals how to raise food for themselves. you give a man a fish, he's for one-day. if you teach a man to fish, he can fish for a lifetime. getting food on the table is the name of the game. we can do that from our homes instead of having to depend on the walmarts and the krogers and the publix. host: i want to let reverend taylor respond to your point but also maybe you could speak a bit more about the role of schools in addressing food insecurity. guest: sure. certainly individual gardens and community gardens play a role. coming from a faith-based organization i'm aware of the

black church food network. we can pull in our congregations regardless of the faith background. we can pull in community groups to continue to build, to teach and share products from gardens. as i stated earlier, solving the problem of hunger is a multipronged approach. that means there are multiple things we must do to ensure everyone is fed. that includes community gardens. i agree with that wholeheartedly. but pushing solid policies forward is needed when we know there are millions -- millions, tens of millions of people in the united states who are food insecure. i think in terms of the role of schools, again, it's about increasing awareness.

on certain college campuses they participate in a program called single stop. that is a program where students can come, get consultation, understand what kinds of benefits they are eligible for such as health care. there are 70 students who are parents -- so many students who are parents and any childcare to enable them to go to school, and s.n.a.p. programs. making this information available and working to ensure there are meal plans that are affordable are an important role that our schools in colleges and universities can play. host: sheri in newburgh, new york. caller: how are you today? guest: i am well. hopefully you are too. caller: this is a ridiculous problem we have. i'm a senior on social security. i'm 71 years old.

out there buying food has been enough. buying good food is even higher. even higher. there is a lot of plans out there. they have numerous plans out there. i think they just need to rethink what they call the poverty level, because it is out of touch. it is out of touch. to be eligible for some of these programs that they have out there that we can't get to because you make $50 too much, or that sort of thing. i went to the store. i filled up a small back and it cost me $60 and there was hardly nothing in there. hardly nothing in there. it is dismissive. at the end of the month you are correct. you have a lot. i'm eating a lot of tunafish, i tell you that when it goes on sale. since you mentioned walmart, i

would like to say i applaud hannaford's. when they have sales on ground beef there is no limit to how much you can buy. you can bring it home and break it up and put it in the freezer and that's great savings. i think they need to rethink that poverty level, in my opinion. thank you. host: go ahead, reverend taylor. guest: thank you for the call and thank you so much for representing the voice of our senior population. certainly for many of us like myself who are in what is referred to as the sandwich generation, we are caregivers for our parents. the senior population is to our hearts -- near and dear to our hearts into group we are concerned about. seniors are often on a fixed budget. therefore all the more hit and

confined when it comes to spikes in food prices and what they are able to do. certainly it's important for our seniors to access nutritious food. you spoke about the federal poverty level. i think it is a fair point personally. that is because it is set across the board. with poverty -- what poverty means in kansas versus what it means in new york city, when we think about the cost of living, the cost of housing, it is drastically different. the way our laws are currently set up there is no flexibility. depending on your location, literally, not only determines whether you fall within a specific level but what you can do and what you have access to. this is why it is all the more important that we focus on policies that we know work and that we make sure our senior

population has access to these benefits. s.n.a.p. benefits in particular. and sufficient amounts to provide access to nutritious food. host: the federal poverty guidelines are broken, based on the number of people in the household. for one person in 2024, $15,060. two people, $20,440. four people, $31,200. barbara in lebanon, oregon. good morning. caller: hello. i wanted to thank reverend taylor for her caring for the world. what i wanted to know is, i'm a senior myself and i had to retire early due to medical conditions. all of my medical payouts took all of my savings. i struggle. what i wanted to know is, my

understanding of project 2025 is there is a clause about eliminating food supplements for the rest of the world. i wonder if she has any information regarding that. host: reverend taylor? guest: i actually don't know what project 2025 says about the wic program. what i can say is is that as we think about the upcoming election and how important not only the presidential election is but also the congressional election. some 468 seats are up for election in november. it is essential that we hold our representatives accountable. that we ask them -- contact them either on social media, call them, attend a local forums and

asked the question, what are you going to do to address hunger and property in this nation? not only the middle-class but low income. folks like yourself who may find themselves in a circumstance not because they are not good people, not because they are lazy or did not work, but by virtue of life and inflation and want to ensure they can have a leg up. this is absolutely critical. regardless of what project 2025 says, i am here to say that the wic program is the premier program for helping women, infants and children. it is a must that we continue this program, that we ensure it is fully funded, and that we know those who are in need have access.

host: reverend heather taylor, managing director of bread for the world, thank you so much for joining us this morning. guest: thank you for having me. really appreciate it. host: coming up, patrick mclaughlin from george mason university's mercatus center will be on to discuss the most and least regulated states in america. first, more of your phone calls and comments after the break in our open forum. the numbers are on your screen. you can start calling in now. ♪ >> i am susan sling. campaign 2024 has evolved in unexpected ways. from now until election day c-span promises unfiltered coverage of the candidates as they battle to win the white house and congress. you may not know that c-span is a private company that operates

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americans who struggle with mental we saved her life so she could be around with my kids. my kids never met my father obviously who died before they were born. they got to meet my mom. they got to meet my mom because my brother and sister and i went to court to get guardianship over our mother to keep her from killing herself. she was so happy. at the time she was not happy but she ended up being so grateful that she was able to make it to the other side. >> patrick kennedy with his book "profiles in mental health courage," sunday night on q&a. you can listen to q&a and all of our podcasts on our free c-span now app. >> washington journal

continues. host: welcome back. we are in open forum and ready to hear your calls with your thoughts on the news of the week or politics in general. before we get to your calls, just a follow-up on our last segment about food insecurity, the usda is under fire for the food insecurity for some vulnerable groups. here is a politico story. the chief admits mistakes as food shortages hit tribal populations and low-income seniors. questions about usda's response remains as food aid shortages are still hitting tribal populations and low income seniors across the country. agriculture secretary tom vilsack acknowledged the department made mistakes in awarding a contract to a single distributor to supply critical food aid programs, a change that has triggered food shortages among low income populations in at least eight states.

since the contract with the distributor paris brothers began in april, tribes have reported delayed and missed the liveries on indian reservations. the same issue has plagued the commodity supplements of food program which serves low income seniors and food banks. that has left some of this program partners without key food staples and many are warning the shortages could get much worse in the next few months. we are learning our system was flawed and mistakes were made, vilsack said on tuesday. it caused stress and a lot of difficulty and we are trying to mitigate the consequences of that stress and difficulty as best we can. the secretary added usda plans to bring the other distributor that previously fulfilled delivery contracts for two food aid programs back for a six-month contract starting sometime in the next few weeks. usda has also brought in fema

officials to help speed up food delivery and plans to bring in representatives from the department of defense after temporary fema officers leave positions. a move that could prove costly for taxpayers. we will start with amelia in atlanta on the line for democrats. good morning, amelia. caller: good morning. as i listened to the program this morning and how many callers were calling complaining about what people use the money, the different subsidies they get from the government, i want people to think, you know, the bible tells you you were supposed to be -- help your neighbors and, you know, be good christians. why worry about $6,000 a year.

it averages $500 a month. while the government gives billions of dollars subsidies to oil companies and other corporations. people need to understand, you know, we need to help each other because you really don't know what can happen to you tomorrow. stop looking at your neighbors or your friends or coworkers and what they do with the money. just know that the money is there to help. you never know when you will need the help. the republicans have never done any help with any programs. they have voted down programs that the reverend was talking about with the food -- host: the continuation of the child tax credit. guest: another thing i wanted to mention, michelle obama has a program for schools where the kids could get nutritious food. in 2018, the trump

administration cut that out. when people get to november when we vote just think about the party that is helping. you can look at your records by going into the voting records of all your representatives and know who is for you and who is against you. i urge people to do that. please stop being so selfish and help each other out. the bible tells us to love our neighbors and the low foreigners in the port -- love the foreigners and the poor. host: leah and anderson, south carolina. caller: good morning. one thing my grandfather used to tell us is that one day we will starve in the land of plenty. i think about that a lot now in my old age. what my concern is with folks that need help, and they do, is

now in our public schools -- i'm in south carolina -- the kids that need the extra help, they get free lunch and everyone gets free breakfast. now in the summer the children and their families receive a meal, a daily meal if they need it. that is subsidized a lot from our taxes and our taxes went up a lot. the burden is on us who are trying to make it out there and struggling. also, i wonder how long our system can make it feeding and helping the thousands of folks coming in from other countries who need help to get on their feet with food as well. host: ok. jean in new haven, connecticut,

the line for democrats. caller: hello? host: go ahead. caller: thank you for letting me speak. you had reverend heather taylor on about food insecurity. i am very frugal buying food and so forth. i'm an elderly person. when i was going to college i would buy one chicken. the others would go to mcdonald's. i would make chicken soup. i would have chicken salad. people don't know how to feed themselves. that is the problem. host: how did you learn those strategies to make that meal stretch your whole week? caller: ok. i would go out and buy beans that i would cook. i would go to a farmers market. host: how did you learn that? you said people need to learn.

how did you learn to do that? caller: my father raised five kids. he worked very hard. never got a dime from any buffer program -- welfare program. my mother stayed home. we made it. we knew how to -- we had vegetables. we used the juice to make stew. if you go to the grocery store and you are checking out you see the food people buy. i'm not saying everybody. you see potato chips. kansas stuff. -- cans of stuff. they say fresh vegetables are very expensive. by the time you are putting that into your diet you have a lot of

health problems. the other thing as far as the food programs, i know people that work in a cafeteria. they have breakfast and lunch. it is all free. they throw all the food away. it's a shame. they should give it to the seniors or the homeless shelters with the leftover food. guidelines say they cannot touch the food. kids don't eat that stuff. they want to eat junk food. it starts at home when their parents teach them how to eat properly. one more question i have that i would like someone to answer. if you are making $12 an hour, it is difficult for food prices today. i'm having my problems. how much does it cost for a mother and a child of two children if you have the program, all the programs they

have for people to take advantage of to have the -- whatever -- food stamps? if you added altogether how much is that per year? host: we will see if somebody who is living that experience can call in and share with us. david in hawkins, texas, the line for independents. caller: yes. i see people talk about different things, about low wages and so forth, especially in the fast food restaurant chain type jobs. those type of jobs, they are entry-level jobs. naturally it will pay a certain amount. most of the time those people move on. try to get better and get a

better job. if you try to make them pay more than what they are able to afford to pay, pretty soon the restaurant will go out of business and nobody will have a job. some people can't see it from a business perspective that way. they only see what is in my pocket. host: rex in minnesota. caller: really interesting they got the just called. that was a fascinating commentary. i think that was -- he was attempting to balance out the argument. when i see it from a business standpoint i think about the immense amount of agricultural subsidies that are being given to the companies like cargo and other people -- cargil and others that are putting petrochemicals in the soils so the farmers, the big farm -- is

not big pharma but it's big ag. they are putting all these chemicals on the field so they can maximize their yields. all that is well because you have to feed a starving planet. the bottom line is these farms are not your small family farm like in the past we had this patchwork of young farmers and families that had been here for a long time. the father passed it on to their sons and daughters to continue farming. it is not like that anymore. the bottom line is that there is such an imbalance between the amount of money being given to the corporate form, the corporate farmer, that all they do is throw their money into stock buybacks and throw it into foreign investments. it is not returned. we have all these people here that are starving and could be benefiting from having more

money from the department of agriculture, but the department of agriculture is saying no. we need to get more money to the big farms and the subsidies -- in the form of subsidies. i wish they were giving money to family farms. that is not what is happening. the farmers are not the farmers of yesterday. they are the wall street farmers. it is really at the heart and root of the problem. that is all have to say this morning. thank you. host: gail in north carolina on the line for republicans will caller: good morning. i have to turn the tv down. host: maybe we will come back to you in just a bit. gilbert in birmingham, alabama, the line for independents. go ahead, gilbert. caller: good morning to c-span. the topic today is quite

interesting. we are in the state of hyper capitalism. the people we elect in congress and the white house say they will look out for the interest of the people. foreign and domestic, they have failed in their calling. what i mean is that when you think about the billion-dollar conglomerates, the walmarts, the dupont and all these different places, they don't care about this country. to the people that say everybody is depending on the government, the government depends on the taxpayers and citizens. the government is the people. the people's taxes are the government. we just want to be represented for the tax dollars we pay. as a whole, democrat and

republican, they are failing to people because the people are not representing the people and well-being of the citizens. thank you. host: next up is anthony in new york on the line for democrats. good morning, anthony. caller: good morning, kimberly. my concern is regarding the attempted assassination on donald trump. has there been any news reports with regard to his medical records when the doctors saw him? any test such as m.r.i.'s, cat scans, what hospital did he go to? for that any reports regarding that issue? he is trying to run for president. people should know his condition in regard to that. host: there were quite a few reports afterwards about his medical condition, including medical reports from the doctor. also i will highlight that just this week the fbi released

photos of the gun used in the trump assassination attempt. this was a story from cnn.com about the latest on that. the fbi released new photos of the gun used tissue donald trump in butler, pennsylvania, and the backpack and explosives the shooter had in his car. the pictures were released as officials gave new details around thomas matthew crooks' internet searches and how investigators are using those searches to piece together his mindset that day. here are some of those photos. next up, dick in marion, illinois, the line for independents. good morning, dick. can you hear us? let's try frank in north carolina, the line for

republicans. caller: my name is frank. host: yes. frank, go ahead with your comments. caller: i want to tell you i'm trying to get here. i was born in 1934 in the lap late in mountains of virginia -- appalachian mountains of virginia. we had nothing. we grew up in a family of nine children. we had 12.5 acres of land. we planted. we dug everything out. there was no help from anywhere. we had our own school meals that were made at home. we had animals. we had chickens, hogs, and cows. the animals we raised during this time.

the thing that gets me today is why we have got to support people's families to go to school and every thing else rather than them go to work. they don't pay any attention to the book they carry around under their arm where it says you reap what you sow. this don't go along with the system that they have today. this is a thing they have got to understand. we had to grow this food and everything. everything came out during the second world war. we grew up there. everything was restricted. everything was rationed. some of our friends never made it through the second world war and stuff like this but we are still here. the thing that makes it so bad, you know, is why people can't go out and work for a living.

the reason is we have a group of people that came from the jungles and stuff like that-- host: donna from pennsylvania on the line for democrats. caller: good morning. about the republicans calling about the immigrants many crimes, we have people that live here in the united states i commit crimes everyday of the week. you have kids being shot down in schools, yet they don't seem to care about that. they never really talk about that at all. they don't do anything to stop it from happening. they worry about keeping their guns. they complain about food prices and gas prices but the go to sporting events paying the hundred dollars, $1000. that is no big deal. people need to realize what is important and what is not. we keep talking about the immigrants. pretty soon we will be the ones

wearing about the border. host: ok. david import saint lucie, florida, the line for republicans -- in port st. lucie, florida. caller: i want to mention the people running this country are causing all this. we get the smartest -- host: causing all of what? caller: this in front of us. let's go, brenda. host: ok. we lost david. we have another david in bloomington, illinois, on the line for republicans. caller: good morning. i want to commit kamala harris and the democrats -- command kamala harris and the democrats to try to get the votes out of michigan. we must understand, they understand also that there are groups of americans who do not vote, like the amish, jehovah witness based on religious purposes. the large population, the arab

publishing of michigan will not vote for kamala harris because she is a female. it is based upon -- host: what makes you think that, david? caller: it is their religious practice that they will not vote for a female. host: which? group -- which group? caller: palestinians. host: i don't think that's accurate. caller: i know the amish don't go in american politics. palestinians, maybe it is not a known argument but palestinian people will not vote for a female. host: i don't know that's accurate. let's hear from louis in north carolina on the line for democrats. good morning. are you there? caller: good morning. sorry about that. good morning. host: go ahead. caller: hillary clinton, she

lost. she has the popular vote, right? she still lost the electoral. we have a lot of women who won't vote for women. i don't know why. they will vote for a man rather than vote for a woman. they wonder why women don't make it into high places to be ceos and all that good stuff. you have a lot of women that look -- women, the all need to stop this was the host: where are you getting this information from? caller: i'm looking how they treated hillary clinton. hillary would have made an excellent president, but 10 days before the election they went on and said she's under investigation. a lot of people turned away from her. the majority of the women would not vote. you can take a look. there are women now, especially the ones who call themselves

conservative -- host: looking at the pew research among validated voters in 2016, how women showed up for hillary clinton. it looks like 54% of women voted for hillary clinton compared to 39% of women for donald trump, versus men, 41% voting for clinton versus 52% of men for trump in 2016. caller: ok. if you can look at it now, you have a lot of women -- what choice do they have that you vote for a man that is up for molestation and federal crimes? what choice do they have in comparison to kamala harris? i can't see it. listen to the women when they

talk about credibility and all that good stuff. what has she done? over 32 ties in the senate. she has the golden gavel. they don't know what that means. what did she do? host: there is data countering your point about women support for harris. there's a story on the hill from august when he won that harris has built a 13 point lead over trump with women according to polling. this is a notable edge with a major voting block that could be critical for her ticket in november. economist found 51% of women who are registered voters say they support harris while 30% back to republican rival. trump saw a seven point lead among men. let's go to the next caller. rick in indiana on the length republicans. caller: how are you?

host: fine, thank you. caller: there are three things definitely wrong in this country. number one, i think democrats don't care for their voters, the democrat voters. they don't care for the country. that hurts my heart. a lot of people don't believe in jesus. that is really sad. i will tell you how to make this country really at her again. we get rid of the transgenders and the gaze -- -- gays -- host: nope. we lost that caller as well. i want to highlight another piece of news this morning. ongoing reports regarding the incident at arlington national cemetery with former president donald trump. house democrats have asked the army for a report on the

arlington incident involving trump's campaign staff. democratic lawmakers with the house oversight committee sent a letter friday to the u.s. army requesting a report into an altercation earlier this week involving arlington national -- an arlington national cemetery employee and trump staff he brought campaign photographers to the cemetery. the committee's ranking number jamie raskin a maryland road to army secretary christine warm us that, "hopefully you can provide an account of the incident." donald trump took part in a wreath-laying ceremony at the tomb of the unknown soldier to commemorate three years since the 2021 kabul suicide bombing that killed 13 service members during the u.s. withdrawal from afghanistan. the confrontation occurred when trump's campaign brought his own photographer to section 60 of the cemetery where veterans of

the recent iraq and afghanistan wars are buried. while the exact details remain unclear, an army spokesperson said to cbs news on thursday the employee was abruptly pushed aside, calling it unfortunate and that the employee and her professionalism has been unfairly attacked. we are done with open forum. up next, patrick mclaughlin from george mason university's mercatus center will join us to discuss the most and least regulated states in the united states of america. we will be right back. ♪ >> shop and save during our labor day sale going on now at c-span.org, our online store. get 15% off all of our great

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the support of america's cable companies. c-span. 45 years and counting, powered by cable. >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back. we are joined by patrick mclaughlin of the george mason university mercatus center where he is the director of policy analytics. welcome to the program. guest: guest: thanks for having me back. host: can you tell us for the folks who may have not have heard of mercatus center what your organization does, your mission and how you are funded? guest: the mercatus center is a research center housed at george mason university. our mission, we are a nonprofit, nonpartisan center. our mission is to bridge the gap between people in academia for think tanks and research centers around the world looking into how economics can better inform policymakers. we do some of the research

ourselves. sometimes we translate between academics and policymakers to make their work more accessible. in general, it's making economics more accessible to policymakers. our funding is completely -- all private donors. there's a big gap between researchers and funders by design so i can tell you specifics on who it is. i can tell you it is all private donors. host: how would you describe political leanings? guest: there is not a position on anything. this tell us -- the scholars run the spectrum of leanings. you can find people who look to markets more often than government intervention across the board but it is not uniform. host: earlier this month he released a research on the economic impact of regulations. what sort of economic indicators were you looking at to determine the impact? what kind of regulations were you looking at?

guest: maybe i can start with the second half of that question. i have been running a project at the mercatus center for many years called rate data. it looks that not a specific type of regulation but all regulations. the goal going into this with a have some sort of -- any sort of metric. some way of measuring how much regulation there is. believe it or not, 12 years ago when i first got into this that did not exist. the best thing was just counting the number of pages and things like the code of federal regulations. i set out to improve that, started using machine learning, natural lang which processing and large language process er -- processors nai to go through the millions and millions of words, thousands and thousands of pages of regulations that exist at the federal and state levels and start measuring things. that is one part of this whole thing. the other part is now that we

can measure how much regulation there is in different places and different points in time, how do we see that changing the economy? we looked at various economic outcomes, economic growth in terms of gdp being one of them but also things like poverty rates, how regulation can contribute to prices, the inflationary effect of it, income inequality, business startups. we can use the data in different models. host: can you talk a little about those relationships that you found? how do you establish when regulations are causing the outcomes? what sort of trends are you seeing? guest: that's always a tricky question in economics. correlation is not causation. there has been plenty of studies that have shown correlations but are also studies that have been more careful to find a relationship. some of the highlights.

one big study we released a few years ago looked at the providence of british columbia -- province of british globule. you wouldn't think of british colombia as a leader in cutting regulation but they were. back in 2001, they set up the cut one third of regulation within three years. they more than accomplished that. i used my computer programs to measure how much regulation there was before this program happened and then after. they got to about 40% reduced in three years. the economy turned around at the same time. they started doing better. how did that cause the economy to do better? we compare the province to the other provinces in canada. we create a control group. if british columbia is the experian group, the other provinces is a control group and we can say that cutting of regulations is the one factor that we saw change across the two groups. that caused -- i'm using the word precisely -- the growth

rate to increase by about 1.2%. there are others that haven't done that have carefully found a causal relationship between the amount of regulation and the growth of the country or the state. i'm fairly confident in that the relationship is not just correlation. there are other studies we can get into if you want. host: i would like to get into your snapshot of state regulations in 2024. something you put out each year. having a look at which states are the most and least regulated. your top five most regulated states end up being california, new york, new jersey, illinois and texas. can you talk a little bit about what types of regulations push them into the top? what kind of economic outcomes you see as a result? guest: sure.

there is not a specific type that seems to be the driving force across all the states. the type of regulation you see being most popular in california may not be the most popular in texas or illinois. across all states you do tend to see some types crop up at the top. those tend to be health and health care related regulations, human service regulatory agencies, a lot of environment of quality regulations coming up towards the top. we see some safety workplace -- workplace safety regulations coming up. it is not uniform there either. some have more in one area and others in other areas. in terms of the outcomes we are looking at in trying to make states and policymakers think about what you are getting from the regulations. i have highlighted some of the negative effects of regulatory accumulation in terms of growth. we have things like poverty and

jobs that are lost, prices that are higher. you want to flip the coin around and look at the other side and say what are we getting? what is california getting from having over 400,000 restrictions on the books? that is a question no one has adequately answered. i don't think there is a process in most states -- some have a bed most of have a process to go back and look at their regulations and see the economic outcomes that are benefiting us. is it worth having these regulations on the books when we know there are all these negative effects? host: i want to get the calls in a moment. we have our regional phone lines. if you're on the eastern or central time zone, (202) 748-8000. the mountain or pacific time zones, (202) 748-8001. before we get to that, look at the counter to that list we just saw to the least regulated states. the five least regular

estates. alaska come amanda tan, north dakota, south dakota and idaho. -- alaska, montana. guest:guest: they are low population relative to the top five for sure. i think it is worth highlighting idaho, the least regulated state for the third year in a row in our rankings. idaho is not always always done at 31,000 restrictions. back in 2018, they had 72,000. they have cut red tape by over half in just a few years. i highlight this because really there are two groups in my point of view. not the top five about a five. it is the states that have let regulations stay on autopilot and that typically means they will grow 1% to 2% per year on average. some states more, some states less. there are states that have reformed the process. it's about process here.

idaho has reformed the process. they learn from what british colombia did. they told regulators it is your job to go back and find old regulations you can get rid of. things that are not creating benefits but creating costs. some of the dover them and provide adequate oversight to get the job done. that is what idaho ultimately relied upon to cut regulation by as much as they did. i live on the west coast in washington state not far from the border. you can drive across the border. even though idaho has 1/6 the amount of regulations as washington does, you don't see six times less safety were six times more pristine environment. what are states getting for having regulation than idaho? guest: other -- host: are there particular areas you found that you feel are particularly under regulated? guest: my research tends to be

macro. i am measuring regulation across the board and entire jurisdictions, states and countries as opposed to zooming in and seeing if a specific regulation is inadequate. could it lead to more benefits? that is something for people to study. i think it would be valuable honestly if you took my data and look at ways that some states by having more regulation are achieving things like better environment of quality and other states that don't have it already achieving it, that's a great question to ask. because it is interesting. your research can draw some conclusions about the cost of additional regulations, but how do you account for the benefits? to cooley the non-monetary benefits of regulations? say, for example, environmental impact, having cleaner air or something like that?

right -- guest: right. we can measure air quality, right? there are ways to measure particular matter across the states. and so, i don't think it would be impossible to take my data and do that sort of study. my data are very neutral. it is sort of like measuring your body weight, right, or measuring cholesterol in your bloodstream. it doesn't say whether that cholesterol is good or bad for your heart, but we can look at correlations and learned that more cholesterol in your bloodstream is bad for your hard, especially certain types of cholesterol. likewise with my data. i don't necessarily see more regulation is bad i say i am making -- measuring regulation, let's look at the effects of it. so for most of the effects have been found not just by me. the data are public. there is hundreds of papers not written by me that have looked at different outcomes. those papers have been cited over 6000 times in other journals, and most of the people are looking at -- should say most people are finding negative

effects. we see published is usually actual, positive findings. if there is no relationship between regulatory accumulation and the benefit side of things, most of the time because there is no finding that you are not going to see something published, and we have not seen those. host: jesse and -- just is in bayview, new york. what is your question? caller: thank you, mr. mclaughlin. i have a question about what you were discussing about outcomes. apparently you are looking at the economic outcome in the gross sins, and not looking at the fine points, or benefits across different sectors. you mentioned the environment and health. i suppose one could include education and regulations that are very important. it seems to me that the only way to really decide whether or not the regulations have more benefit than downside is to do

individual studies about those particular outcomes. not the gross economic outcomes. you know, so, if you could kindly answer that question i would appreciate that. guest: sure, jeff. i think that is a great point. i think both types are valid studies. i think we do want to see if there is some sort of misunderstood or even hidden cost from having more regulation, from having regulatory accumulation. because that is the kind of thing we never even could study prior to my data existing. what are absolutely right. we should not assume that the macro results mean we should cut individual regulations or that we should make an individual regulations. we need to study every individual regulation on a case-by-case basis and make that decision on both the cost and benefits to your point. i don't disagree at all. going back to idaho, that is

what idaho and some other states that have tried to reform their process have started doing. you're saying, let's do an actual analysis of old regulations. let's see what the benefits and costs are and make that decision whether to keep it or not. host: elizabeth is in las vegas, nevada, which is number 42 on the list of leased-regulated states. go ahead, elizabeth. >> good morning. thank you so much for taking my call. what i want to speak to is, i believe regulation is very important. look at louisiana, where the methane from the gas companies is in the water, you know, everywhere. where the companies are polluting black people. if you were to turn -- i used to

live in idaho. if you were to not regulate the lumber companies in idaho there would be no forest left in idaho, which is a huge problem right now in terms of the trees having various diseases and so, regulation is important. in order to protect our planet. donald trump is planning on cutting regulations for the big oil companies that will be drilling in our parks, in our country, in our treasured earth. i think that regulation is very important. and in terms of our farmers, without regulations pesticides would be even more so on our food. regulation, because of we are human and we do not care for one another, do not take care of each other, regulation is very important for our country, and

thank you so much for taking my call. host: patrick, i wonder if you can talk to the larger point elizabeth made. when you are doing these macroeconomic models how do you quantify the monetary benefit of some of those intangibles like elizabeth was describing? guest: it is a difficult thing, as you know. if something is not monetized then it is not going to make it into gdp directly. it sometimes can indirectly, right? if you have some regulation that is improving air quality and that reduces allergy rates or some sort of human illness in a given area, and that makes people be able to work more, absenteeism goes down as a result, that would indirectly make it into gdp. the things that are not monetized bow, even indirectly, say the value you take from knowing some species exists,

that is really hard to handle in economics in general. not just any macro study, but an individual study like what jeff was asking about. i used to work in the department of transportation and we had a hard time all the time doing cost-benefit analysis where the benefits were something that was just intangible. often the best you can do is just list them out. here is the intangible benefits. policymakers need to make a decision whether these things we can't monetize are worth prioritizing versus these things that we can monetize and maybe go onto the cost side of the ledger. but one point to make. i alluded to it earlier. there are non-monetized metrics you can look at and be a bit more scientific about. teens like the level of pollution in water or the air, just as simple examples. we have numbers. we have data. so, we can look at the effectiveness of some regulations. maybe not monetizing them, but in some tangible way. host: rockets in newark, new

jersey, number three on the list. good morning, brock. caller: thank you so, and god protect our troops at home and abroad. i live in newark. they are trying to put a power plant in the east ward, you know what i'm saying? it is shameful, because a lot of these industrial cities have to deal with the pollution from all of these companies who want to build, and i'm all about business or whatever, but regulations are extremely important. the lady before me kind of took my point, so i will go to the legalization of marijuana. they legalized marijuana and did not have the regulations in place, and how kids are starting to ingest and get hold of a lot of these thc candies for all of this stuff. it would have been smart to have regulations in place. i understand how businesses may find it, you know, in the way to have these regulations.

when you talk about people's safety, especially when you don't know what the effects are going to be in one year, two years, i'm tired of seeing these commercials like, were you affected by this? you are entitled to money. we don't need that. these businesses need to be smart. we need to think about all of that stuff before they even start doing business because the repercussions can be deadly and i think that, you know, i understand 12 years ago obama was in the white house. it makes sense you start checking on these regulations. but i like business, but regulations are important, and i just want to make sure we keep hammering on that. host: speaking of safety, make sure to change that battery in your fire alarm. ahead, patrick. guest: regulations are important. i don't disagree. i guess going back to her previous caller, which, louisiana was mentioned. and i will make the point that louisiana is actually the 10th-most regulated state in the

country. i don't know about the state of the environmental quality there. i'm sure there are newspaper articles you can find going either way. my point is very simple. if regulations are important -- and i just conceded the point -- let's make sure they are working. i think state and federal as well as local regulations need to be re-examined on a regular basis. if you have some sort of distrust of companies and you think they are not going to necessarily do things the right way -- whatever that means to you or follow through on the promises -- you were going to look in and see if they are doing the things they are doing. why aren't we looking in on the government and seeing if the government is accomplishing those things the -- that we want them to accomplish with these important regulations? host: david is in wisconsin, lucky number 13 on the list. ahead, david. caller: -- go ahead, david. caller: my call is about

multiple regulations and housing industries that you hear about. it is a national issue. news articles and on tv a few weeks ago i saw that the governor from colorado suggested that may be local regulations are the problems in the housing industry. and that maybe the federal government should take over zoning and local regulations in that area. that kind of made my head explode. i really feel the people in the local area know what they need for building and zoning, etc.. i would like to know your thoughts on the federal government taking over local zoning, etc.. guest: first, i think your point about housing is a great want to bring up.

houses have gotten more and more expensive, and everyone knows this. everyone is aware of this pain point in america and a lot of the problem has been, you know, regulations. local and state. not so much federal in this case, but local and state regulations. i agree with your point that wherever we can let local knowledge be the driving force behind defining regulations, defining the rules of the game, we should allow that to happen. we have seen some states try to reform the amount of regulations they have on housing. that could be zoning or other code-related stuff, at the state level. and as a response we do see some localities change their regulations. sometimes upward or downward. there is room for variation and i think probably, david, you are looking at -- maybe the report you are referring to refers to localities with housing regulations. that is going to make supply be

smaller, drive up prices in that area. i don't think a federal solution would be better. i think people that live in those areas are going to vote with their feet ultimately. you're going to see house prices reflected again, and supply goes down if regulations are tighter in housing and in a certain market. people are going to see housing prices go up and they will see the city next door. host: cj is in buffalo, new york. the second-most regulated state. good morning, cj. caller: good morning. morning, professor. it is an interesting topic. you say that the importance of the british colombia experience, but you, i think, omitted a huge factor. they started measuring for the next decade or whatever, and saw

a boomtown. -- what a boomtown british columbia became. i think it had more to do with hong kong being given back, you know, from the british back to the chinese. and since d.c. is part of the commonwealth of canada, they live a natural benefactor of having hundreds of thousands of ethnic chinese, hong kong citizens with, you know, the ultimate capitalist traditions. and so their economy boomed. in one of the regulations to go from hong kong to bc -- host: i will pause for a moment because i want to allow you to make your larger point, but in patrick's research, if i'm

reading this correctly, he began looking at this in 2016 when british columbia began, as you call it, the redtape reduction? guest: no. it as colombia started the process in 2001. there is probably a separate paper you are not looking at, but we published a paper a few years back. cj's point is actually a good one. it is something we had to look into. that definitely could have been an explanation for british columbia's economic turnaround. but we looked into the timing of this, of the influx of hong kong citizens into mostly vancouver, and the timing did not match when the deregulation occurred. it did not match the economic flourishing that was driving our results. and we were not even a step further. we were like, let's throw away some of the years where that possibly could have been a cause and we still found the same results. so, we look into this as well. it is a good instinct, but we are controlling for it. host: cj, did you have a

follow-up question for patrick? caller: only in this sense. you know, when you grow up in the rust belt like buffalo and niagara falls and cleveland, detroit, you see how many of our industrial legacy, big, polluting companies, it is not like those processes are not getting done. they are just getting done in places, you know, the cheapest, you places to hide. the chemicals and stuff. like, there was a big factory in bhopal, india, probably the worst industrial accident, like, ever. and i think in 1983 or something. and the big american company that moved to bhopal, india, those are jobs that used to be

done by, like, people like my grandparents. you know, just the dirtiest, most caustic jobs on earth. and, you know, india lost something like 60,000 people in an explosion. so, you know, i'm all for it. free markets and all of that, but one quick final point. we always think it is the government regulating. what the problem is, is the government allows big business to set the regulations. you know, their lobbyists want to keep smaller people from getting big, and it is just human nature. the bigger your company, the better for yourself. so, you know, that is why, like, big agencies like the ntsb and the faa, well, if boeing is

doing all of the, you know, 90% of the grunt work, and then the faa can just -- host: cj, to your point, i will point folks to a website called regulations. of. when regulations are in development members of the public can weigh in on how they are written and how they think they should change, and you can submit your comments online. let's go to deborah in maryland. good morning, deborah. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. i have two comments. one is about the mercatus center. see -- c-span has these people on all the time and they never disclosed that it was enticed to george mason university by a donation by the code others, and they still fund -- coke brothers -- koch brothers and they still

find -- find this. the opinions are from the right to the far right. i think c-span owes it to their viewership to disclose the connection with this organization. the second point i wanted to make is, i think that people don't like regulation until it is beneficial to them. when we first moved to the d.c. area with -- you are not allowed to swim in the potomac. there were signs all over the place. don't go near this water. i don't know if you thought your skin was going to fall off, but now, 40, 50 years later you can swim in the potomac. and that is the result of regulation for clean water that simply did not exist back then. i think the environmental protection agency was created in the 70's and it has done great work. when, you know, there are numerous examples of that, most recently boar's head factory in

virginia that has killed nine people. you can bet they will not pay much of a price for that. there should be regulations and there should be a sufficient number of inspect years to enforce those regulations. and that simply doesn't exist right now. i husband used to work for the fda before he retired, and it is woefully underfunded. you cannot get people -- you can bet that people want safe drugs. they want clean water. they want clean air. and when you do not get it is when you miss it. host: i want to provide folks with additional information on that. that boar's head story you mentioned. here is the story from the associated press. boar's head plant linked to deadly outbreak broke food safety rules dozens of times, records show. a boar's head deli meat plane in virginia tied to a deadly food poisoning outbreak pedal leave

violated federal regulations, including instances of mold, insects, lick dripping from ceilings, and meat and fat residue on walls, floors, and equipment. government inspectors logged 69 instances of non-compliance with federal rules in the past year, including several in recent weeks, according to documents released through federal remove information act request. patrick, if you first want to respond to deborah's characterization of your organization, and then any additional thoughts you might have on her larger point? guest: like a said earlier, at the mercatus center there is a firewall, a separation by design between researchers, scholars like myself, and donors. i honestly don't know details of who is funding us. sure, you can google mercatus center's founding and probably find articles like deborah

referred to. but it does not drive our research. my research is very neutral in nature. it is just measurement. as far as the other point about regulations having been affected and cleaning up the potomac, for example, i think that is a wonderful example of when regulations can work right. my bigger point is that we simply don't know if regulations are doing their jobs. if they are, indeed, going to prevent the next accident or not. you list several violations of fda regulations in this factory. so, regulations were in place, but they did not vent the contamination from happening. and we re-examine that and figure out what went wrong. maybe it is more inspectors. i don't know the answer here. i don't know the details. i'm simply making the point that re-examination of regulations can only be good. you can get rid of the stuff

that doesn't work or find ways to enhance the ones that are working. host: next up is paul in cedar hill, texas. good morning, paul. caller: good morning, c-span. i have two things to bring up. i remember the smog days when i was younger in primary schools and cars blowing that blue smoke, etc. 11 i'm so glad my grandkids are not exposed to that to regulations. number two, aren't regulations brought on by cause-and-effect? it was a problem and they tried to come up with a solution? could you respond to that? guest: i mean, i agree that i'm glad that air quality especially has improved over the years. i think that is attributable to regulation. as to the second point, i wish i could say we knew the answer. i wish i could say that regulations are brought on by some distinct cause and they are trying to fix it.

but often regulations are created because of political crisis. some sort of event that will precipitate congress to pass a big act. in the act will sometimes create regulations that address the causes of the event, but sometimes create regulations that are completely ancillary. this is one of the assumptions i think we should question. however -- are regulations actually built to address specific problems? sometimes yes, sometimes no. i'm times we don't know. and we need to have a process for answering that question both before a regulation is made -- is this regulation going to address a real problem? and then also looking back after they have made and seen, is it fixing that real problem? host: that was in texas, number five on the list. we will go to california, number one on the list with dennis. good morning, dennis. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call.

really interesting topic this morning. just a question i have, then a comment. so, it would be interesting to see what the regulation is per capita. so, i'm sure you have that data, but i would be interested to know if you have that available as opposed to just per capita. and then just wanted to share an example of what is local regulation versus federal. local being much more successful. so, environmental regulation in california, where i have grown up, and i have moved back here recently after spending 17 years in texas, is air quality-related. and it takes time for environmental regulations to have an effect. i grew up in the 60's as a kid. i experienced air quality alerts where literally could not go outside and play during recess at school. 20 years later my kids grew up

in the 80's -- 1980's. they had no idea what their quality of -- quality alerts were. less an example where the management district in california tightened regulations and forced the automotive industry to change exhaust gas regulations, went across the country, everybody benefited. so, just a great example in my mind of local regulations driving the best changes. so, thanks for taking my call. have a great morning. host: can you go ahead and speak to the per capita side of things? guest: it is a good insight. try to look into that. i tried to pull up the table but i cannot find it quickly. if we look at per capita, california is, i think, still toward the top. idaho is at the bottom, if i recall correctly.

i made this point earlier. we do see more regulation correlate with states that have higher populations. so, i think the take away from this is, there is sort of a natural process at play here. as the state grows in terms of population, in terms of the size of the economy, the complexity of its economy, you see policymakers create more regulatory agency. there is a term for this in the literature. we see this creation of more and more agencies when there is a greater population, and of course agencies hire people whose job it is to make more regulations, and so regulations will naturally grow. but the interesting thing about things per capita -- things per capita is states that buck the trend line. there are some states that are not on that trendline. those are the states that have actively gone back and said, are there ways we can cut red tape? cat regulations that are not

doing any good? that are creating only cost and no benefits? missouri did this, kentucky did this. virginia and ohio are in the process. we already mentioned ohio went far in doing this. those states, you can see them beyond that trendline, that connects regulation to population. host: that is all of the time we have for our show today. i want to thank patrick, who is a senior research fellow and director of policy analytics at george mason university's mercatus center. thank you so much, patrick. guest: thank you. host: thank you to everyone who called in today with your thoughts and questions. we will be back with another edition of washington journal tomorrow. have a great day. ♪