♪ host: morning. it's wednesday, september 4. anti-war protests erupted in israel on sunday after the bodies of six more hostages were recovered from gaza. they were shot at close range hours before the iclos

in on their location. cease-fire and hostage release talks have proceeded for months amid increasing frustration from u.s. officials. this morning, we are asking you, should israel accept a permanent cease-fire or keep fighting hamas? here are the numbers. democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. you can send us a text at 202-748-8003. send us your first name and city, state. we are on social media, facebook.com/c-span. and x @cspanwj. welcome to today's "washington journal." start with "the new york times" with this headline, as israel's rift widen, netanyahu remains defiant in strikes and protests, many shraeurls are pushing their government to prioritize the

release of hostage above the immediate defeat of hamas. prime minister netanyahu has refused to change course. here is israeli prime minister netanyahu on monday making an apology to the families of the six hostages. >> i am begging for your forgiveness that we did not succeed bringing them home alive. we were very close. nearly there. and i would like to repeat once again this evening, israel will not move on to a normal agenda after that massacre hamas will pay a very heavy price for it. the war against this axis of evil and this specific war against hamas, the first crack and of course that doesn't bring about a deal whatsoever, but the first crack was when we went into rafah and we took over the

corridor and the rafah transit point because that was literally there where they actually could breath their oxygen. they were hoping iran or hezbollah would come and save them. now that they are hoping the international pressure would now extricate them from that situation. but the only effective change that would be enabled would be if we hold on to the philadelphia corridor and not vacate it, not evacuate it. once we leave it we'll never be able to go back. host: just so you know the -- he referenced the corridor, this is the guardian explaining what that is. it says that netanyahu's control of the strip between gaza and egypt a cease-fire in negotiations, this is a map here

this is where it is in israel. here is the gaza strip and here's the border with egypt. this is what's called the philadelphi corridor that israel wants to maintain control of. we will go to calls now. start with lawrence in st. paul, minnesota, independent. hi. caller: good morning. you do a wonderful job. unquestionably war is humanity at its lowest. but remember in december of 19413,000 americans lost their souls when we were attacked by pearl harbor -- at pearl harbor by japanese. and subsequently eliminate the threat there were both military and collateral damage. tokyo bombings cost the lives of

100,000. 69 other japanese cities was about 500,000. and people today are keeping score thinking that that's the way that you eliminate the threat. and that's the wrong way to do it. war's not pretty, but when you are attacked you have to protect the nation. that is the first role of government. host: lawrence, do you say israel should keep going? keep fighting hamas? caller: i think that hamas is a threat to israel. they do not recognize israel as do other n.g.o.'s and other nations, and they call for the demise or elimination of israel. you can't negotiate with people who sit across the table and don't recognize you. so, yes, i think israel has a right to defend itself. hamas pulled the trigger to start this. and sadly hamas needs to be

eliminated. thank you for your time. i will let other people get on. host: president biden was asked if he thought prime minister netanyahu's doing enough to secure a hostage release deal. and the white house press secretary was asked about that at the press briefing. here she is. >> what more could prime minister netanyahu be doing to get a deal done? >> i don't have anything to add or any color or anything more specific to add to what the president said yesterday. he was asked a direct question. he answered it. don't have anything else to add. we are going to continue to do, continue to have conversations on next steps with our co-immediate maters as i mentioned moments ago, qatar and egypt. we are committed, this president is committed to make sure we get a cease-fire deal. we have to remember what this means. this means it ends the war. the president wants to see this

war ended. the president wants to see the palestinian people continue to get relief. we want to up the assistance into gaza to the palestinian people. we want to get hostages home. we want to get them home to their family. the story that came out over the weekend of these six hostages, one of them being an american citizen, is devastating. devastating. it was a devastating news and heinous act we saw by hamas. >> does the president regard any of the israeli demands that have been put on the table during these negotiations as unreasonable? >> i'm not going to negotiate from here. as my colleague from msc said, we are not going to negotiate from here. we are not going point by point here. we are looking at all options as we have said before and we'll continue to have those consultations with co-immediate

maters qatar and egypt. i don't want to get ahead of that. >> does the president see prime minister netanyahu as a good faith actor in these negotiations? >> the president sees the prime minister as someone who he has known for decades now. they tend to have honest conversations, direct conversations. i'm going to not get into a yes or no here. i'm going to get into what i know their relationship to be. and i think that's what's important. the president wants to get this done. and i'm just going to leave it there. host: here is susan on facebook who sent us this. two-state solution should be the goal. the genocide of palestinians is creating more hamas. netanyahu won't agree to a cease-fire. his goal is to kill all palestinians and take all the land they own. he is a war criminal and as long as he is in power there will be no justice and no peace. this is tizzy on facebook, they

should agree to a cease-fire and then find a way to negotiate with the palestinian people, the real people, not the terrorists that are hamas. to find a human solution that equitably treats all the people affected. calling from burke, virginia, republican, doug, hi. caller: my question would be did anybody ask america to stop bombing iraq? and kuwait during the first golf war or second gulf war after we were attacked in 9/11? did anybody ask us to stop doing that during that time? why is the west all of a sudden the moral high ground? i'm an american. i'm part of the west. but why -- we are the moral high ground compared to israel, oiler own ally in all the middle east. our true ally in the middle east. that doesn't make sense to me. since when are we all of a

sudden the people who have the rights to say what's moral and what's not moral when we commit just as much genocide, quote, quote, during 2001 and 2002 until we left iraq. that doesn't make sense to me. i don't know where these people get off saying we all of a sudden have that ability. it doesn't make sense to me. for me no one wants war. nobody likes war. inevitably people are going to die in war. i'm a christian. that's part of the sin nature of humans. we don't like each other. we don't get along by nature. it's our natural disposition is not be in favor of peace because we -- all the way back to the old testament in the bible, people love to kill each other. i don't think -- i'm saying at the end of the day we don't need to act like we are the moral

owners of morality in the west whenever we do the same thing over the decades and decades of war we have been a part of. that's all i got to say. host: talk to brooklyn, new york, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. i am said they should have a cease-fire because the palestinian people in gaza was in a prison camp. yes, good morning. host: you got to mute your tv. talk right into the phone. we hear you. caller: ok. yes, i'm saying there should be a cease-fire. a cease-fire. the palestinian people in gaza was in a concentration camp, a prison camp. they couldn't leave gaza by a train, by a plane, by a boat. they were completely in control of the israeli people.

and for god's sake, all those years of suppression that were due to the palestinian people, please, stop. ok. because this situation, they are the occupying force. the occupying people's land. they have been killing them. they have been doing all sort of atrocities to them. and then the talk about october 7, yes. october 7 is wrong. i'm not saying the palestinian have the right to go kill innocent people. but they were being killed for a very long time. and the war is not ever told the truth. they are not ever fed the truth that the israelis are the occupiers and be imprisoning and doing the people evil. host: kevin on facebook says permanent cease-fire and palestinian state.

and sheri on facebook says, unfortunately, you cannot negotiate with a terrorist. hamas is a globally recognized terrorist organization. michael four oaks, north carolina, republican. hey, michael. caller: good morning, i'll tell you what it is a beautiful morning here in the carolinas. beautiful sunshine. host: i bet. it's getting to be nice in d.c., too. believe it or not. caller: yes. i have been there back in 1990 with my high school. and i know all about it. we went almost late winter and it was hot. but back to the seriousness of the situation. we all want peace. i know the president of israel, does not, with his own words, have any confidence in our president. i just heard him i think just yesterday or maybe monday saying

in the interview he didn't think biden was interested in peace at all. i don't know what that means, really. because everyone should want peace. we have lost our contacts with negotiations and stuff. i don't think israel trusts us. i think hamas does because they are just using us. and hamas wants any way out of this war. host: do you think they want out of this war, michael, or are they benefiting from this war? caller: no. hamas is not benefiting from this war. they may some in the eyes of peacemakers and stuff when children are being innocently hurt from missiles and bombs and stuff. the palestinian people are being used by hamas, but i don't think hamas is benefiting at all. look what happened to isis, the same thing is happening to hamas.

unfortunately so many civilians are caught up in the ground war in rural area. host: and here's doug, fairfax, south dakota, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning, i think the killing needs to stop. i don't think it's going to because harris is just the same as biden, actually. her husband is jewish. and his main goal is to stop anti-semitism or whatever. it's going to continue. israel, i just don't understand all these people finding in the bible we are supposed to be killing people. the only thing that god really wrote i think is the 10 commandments. in there he says you are not supposed to kill. i just don't see how they keep finding the bible as the reason for the killing. they sure manage to. the slaughter will continue on. and benjamin, when he came, congress, like i said a long time ago, they would be jumping like bunny rabbits.

they did. i think it's more like seals. they were clapping like seals waiting for their rewards from benjamin, i think. the killing needs to stop. israel is doing wrong. i just -- nobody mentions west bank. what about all the settlements? people have been killed in the west bank, what about that? let's ask some of these people about that? it needs to stop. p harris is not going to be any different than biden. i'm not going to vote for her. have a good day, people. host: all right, doug. rob in michigan, independent. good morning. caller: good morning. i think everyone would like to see an end to the war. the way to achieve it would be look at your own opinion. i would ask the audience to say well, if you want a permanent cease-fire from both sides, cease hostilities, raise your right hand. i think most people would.

i would follow that and say if you would like to follow that up with a giant international aid to the west bank, to gaza is rebuilding the infrastructure, schools, hospitals, utilities and a free election for everybody. raise your left hand. if you want to achieve the cease-fire, get hamas to do the same. you'll have both hands in the air. host: going back to who controls who would be in control of gaza, you said there should be free and fair elections, do you think that's possible right now given the situation? caller: right now it's not because hamas is in control. the moment they won the election they did have, they immediately began killing off their opposition. their competitors. and they put an end to elections. hamas will have to go. it could be a coalition of

palestinian governments that are committed and monitored through international law as to a ruling body. they would have to agree to a two-state solution which israel has agreed to half a dozen times in the last 50 years. and the palestinian terrorists said, no, the only last contingency we have to have the extinction of jewish people. that's a hard sell and condition. don't think anyone will ever agree to that. as long as the terrorists continue to dominate and oppress their own people, no, there won't be peace. it could be achieved three international effort and pressure. host: here is steve in san jose, california, republican, good. caller: good morning, let's remember the palestinians elected hamas. the palestinians teach their children to hate the jews. after october 7, hamas leaders said that they would attack

israel again and again and again. if israel is not allowed to utterly, completely destroy the hamas leadership, they will regroup and attack israel again and again and again. this is the reality. this is the reality. it's sad -- host: let me ask you this. when you say to utterly destroy hamas leadership. what about the ideology of hamas, how do you destroy that? caller: you don't. it exists. but -- let's see, israel needs to -- if they could control the school system, that would be a start.

the united nations can't be relied on to police gaza because they were themselves complicit in the attack on israel. one last thepbg, i hope that -- thing, i hope that u.s. funds are not used to rebuild gaza. if the funds are to come from somewhere, they should come from iran. they should come from saudi arabia. but we shouldn't borrow money to rebuild gaza because this is going to happen over and over again. one further thing, god in the old testament fought on the side of the jews, and they destroyed

complete civilizations down to the last man, woman, and child. the gazans, the palestinians should be thankful that god does not take an active role fighting with israel today. host: one of the slain hostages was her shall goldberg-polin, an israeli american. his mom gave a eulogy in jerusalem on monday. here's a portion of that. >> for 23 years i was privileged to have the most stunning honor to be hersh's momma. i will take it and say thank you. i just wish it had been for longer. hersh, for all these months i have been in such torment and worry about you for every single

millisecond of every single day. it was such a specific type of misery that i have never experienced before. i tried hard to suppress the missing you part because that i was convinced would break me. so i spent 330 days terrified, scared, worrying and frightened. it closed my throat and made my soul throb with third degree burns. part of what is so deeply crushing and confusing for all of us is that a strange thing happened along this macabra path which our family found itself traveling for the last 332 days. amidst of inexplicable agony, terror, anguish, desperation and fear we became absolutely certain that you were coming home to us alive. but it was not to be.

host: on your screen is the pictures of six -- six hostages, their bodies were recovered just a few days ago from gaza. we are asking you the question, should israel accept a permanent cease-fire or do you think they should keep fighting hamas. here is donald in grand blank, michigan, democrat. caller: good morning, c-span. good morning, mimi. i think our prayers go out to the palestinian people and the israel people. it's a shame what's going on there. netanyahu is the problem with peace in gaza. he had opportunity to make a peace deal and he withdrew. i truly think we are killing a lot of innocent people.

it needs to stop. to blame biden and kamala harris is ridiculous. when i hear callers say -- biden done everything he can to get peace over there. and they don't want peace. so you can't blame biden or kamala harris for this mess. just like you can't blame him for the mess in ukraine. this administration is doing the best they can with what cards they have been dealt. all we can do is pray for peace over there and hope better minds come to the table for a peace plan. i bless gazans, the palestinian people, and get kamala in the white house.

host: robin in maryland, republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you. you have to understand that israelis grow up from the time they are babies learning that when they hear an alarm they go into shelters. the israelis have been bombarded throughout history. if you look at the bible the israelis have been the underdogs all along, everybody's tried to get after them. the reason that there is a discussion right now is six innocent hostages were killed because hamas said, we got to do something. we got to get people behind us. so they killed innocent people that were about to be rescued. if we have a cease-fire now, then hamas has won. and they say, oh, and if anything else happens we'll just kill some more hostages.

and as far as the part biden and kamala has played, if they had stuck to their guns starting on october 6 and said, no cease-fire until every hostage is returned, we would have had those hostages become before christmas. but because they wanted the two-state solution of michigan and wisconsin, and that was more important than israel they said, oh, you have to have a sears tpao*eu, you have to have a sears fire. no. we have to have the hostages back. until every hostage is returned, there should be no more cease-fires. thank you very much for listening. i love c-span. host: butler, wisconsin, democrat, good morning. caller: yes. thank you. it gets sickening to listen to these people. they all think they know. it comes down to this. you got a friend, he was attacked, you come to his aid. but now all of a sudden,

indiscriminately he's attacking everybody around him. wouldn't you say as a friend to him, you got to stop this? and then some of your callers keep bringing up god. do you think god wants people to kill other people? that's all i got to say. thank you very much. host: here's yomi on facebook, they had a cease-fire before october 7. many other times in history. how about actual peace? cease-fires are glorified temporary pauses. how about the u.n. butts boots on the ground and allow for new elections in gaza anti-west bank without a centralized government, you can't be a sovereign nation. start with the basics rather than sensationalist sound bites. and alan says, keep fighting until there are none left. the palestinians support hamas overwhelmingly and unless they turn on them and tell israel where they are they deserve to

suffer. this is steve, robertsville, missouri, independent. caller: yeah, i'm a pure independent. i don't like either -- netanyahu is doing the best he can. and hamas is a terrorist organization. and it's just -- it kind of extends to the ukraine, too. he just shook hands with putin trying to get putin to negotiate. that's just very comical. putin is a mass murderer. host: i was going to say, back to israel. caller: well, they are going to have to keep going and just not stop against hamas because they are not going to stop. they are terrorists. you got to stand firm against them and keep fighting. and why don't you have anything about ukraine that's going on?

why is there nothing about that, either, that's a big deal. host: do i have something to update you on that. we are going to stick with israel for now. joe in baltimore, maryland, independent line. caller: hello, good morning, world. i have been listening to these calls for years and with israel i don't know where to start. but we start from the beginning. if everyone, those ones who believe in the bible, i suggest you get the complete works ofo cfius, he tells you how all this got started. how all of it got started. as far as the war with israel. who is israel? israel is the product of alexander the great. we have the history, we read our history we'll find exactly what it's all about. host: joe, how would that impact the question at hand. caller: because it will explain

to you -- host: i want you to tell me how do you think israel should accept a permanent cease-fire, should they end the war? caller: israel are the start of all our wars. israel is the start. if you read what josephus wrote, he will explain to us how to stop world war iii. those one that is call joseph and the bible. when you get his complete works thatwhen you get the truth, he d he wrote it for the greeks. he went from joseph to josephus. the names change. he's the writer of your books. seven books of josephus. host: here is the times of israel. israel agreed to withdraw from parts of philadelphi at the egypt-gaza border.

proposal requires up a lot from credit areas of the corridor in phase one. idf will control it indefinitely. israel would fully withdraw in phase two. let's look at a portion of the state department briefing. here is matt miller, the spokesperson. [video] >> plea made it clear what our principles are when it comes to an ongoing israeli presence in israel. we make clear in the proposal -- sorry. thank you. of course. first day at the podium in a few weeks. we have made clear what her opinion is on the -- our opinion is on the ongoing israeli presence. we made clear what we believe about the israeli presence in

gaza and we are opposed to it. in the bridging proposal we put forward that the government of israel agreed. it did include the removal of the idf from densely populated areas. as i said, there are a number of details requiring further negotiations to conclude how the parties will live up to their commitments under the agreement. that is what we continue to discuss. host: in other news regarding ukraine, the new york times reporting this headline. ukraine foreign minister offers to resign as zelenskyy plans cabinet shakeup. president zelenskyy was poised to carry out the biggest change to his government since moscow's invasion. rescuers dug through the rubble of a deadly strike in eastern

ukraine as russia launched new attacks. that's at the new york times. this is rick in ohio, republican. caller: good morning. host: what do you think about the israel-hamas work? should israel accept a permanent cease-fire? caller: i do think you can negotiate with terrorists. second, i don't think it's a permanent solution. i think a permanent solution is the same thing needs to happen to hamas that's happened to former terrorist groups all around the world. until then they will not be peace. host: tim in jail echo, tennessee. -- jelicho, tennessee. caller: i don't see what the

out-earn gaza over to egypt and let egypt police it. after they get done there they should go north into lebanon and kick hezbollah out of there. they got kicked out of jordan and they went to lebanon. they caused chaos ever since up there. why don't they -- i think that is a -- it would bring some peace to them. i do think you can ask people to stop fighting when you're trying to wipe them out, annihilate them from earth. host: here is amir in austin hill, maryland. caller: good morning. host: go right ahead. you are on the air. caller: thank you very much. i listen to your show on my way to work. i love it. i want to say that first. i was born in the middle east.

i have always heard of the conflict between israel and palestine. this is not the first time in my lifetime. this is not the first war. when i hear people say -- i don't think so. in 1948, israel occupied palestine. there must be a resistance. where is the line between resistance and terrorism? if you look at gaza, it was like a prison. there was no israeli controls but they were controlling from the outside. they need to resist whoever is imprisoning them. if you look at the west bank, that's a different story. israel has been controlling that. the people of israel can go to any house, any land and just

grab it. you can see where some people would go there [indiscernible] where do we draw the line? host: i hear what you are saying about that line. what to you think of popular opinion among palestinians towards hamas? has it changed over the course of this war? are they blaming hamas for bringing israeli troops and bombs on top of them? caller: i don't think so. they look at them as resistors to an occupier. why are they blaming hamas? they are going to kill them anyways. resist, or live free or die. that is what they are doing.

host: you think the palestinian people are even more supportive of hamas as somebody that has been helping them? caller: of course. even in the west bank. they are trying to start assisting -- resisting the israelis. there is no hamas in the west bank. eventually they would create another hamas or another name in the west bank and then start fighting with israel. at that point the opinion of the u.s. will be it's an invasion. if you look at it in the normal -- the movies or anywhere else, they are resistance. host: let's go to the bronx, republican. olympia, you are in. caller: how are you today? host: good, thanks. caller: israel has nothing to do

with -- they should not have a decision in the cease fire or conducting the cease fire. they should be made to have a cease fire. this is an absolute siege on a civilian population. labeling eight group terrorists is the appeal for garnering support from the masses around the world. if you are paying attention to the things that are actually happening and you are seeing these videos being broadcast live, some of the articles that are being posted online through actual news and media websites about some of the atrocities and tactics engaged in by the idf forces against civilians. i don't know if that wouldn't change hearts and minds of some

of the people making some of the comments they are making about wiping out hamas. i have not seen a battlefield yet. what i have seen is the utter destruction and movement of women, babies, pregnant folks, elderly, disabled and men trying to help this population of people. healthy, able men who are able to help the population that they feel is most needy. i don't understand. hamas is not the reason. it is the excuse. it is the scapegoat for the decimation of these people. all the while, there has been construction and drilling the land and occupation of the land

for its resources. the means to get all this is to remove the people who are already there. a built up animosity. this is not something that is new. i don't think this is anything that is new, what is going on in palestine. israel is in palestine. it has its own area. the jewish people from palestine are jewish people. they did not need to be partitioned. this is what happened. it is causing conflict because one group has support from big poppa, the larger western country, and is using that support to push over a poorer, not defended native group. host: this is kate on facebook. should the white house, harris especially, stop their moral

relativism? harris told him not to go into rafa. the hostages would be alive if they did. there is going to be the first presidential debate next week on sunday. we will have live coverage of that. that is the abc news presidential debate between vp harris and former president trump. live, tuesday, september 10. you can watch coverage beginning at 8:00 p.m. eastern. in light of that debate, c-span is running a poll. do you think debates matter? will impact your vote this fall? vote now. it is at c-span.org/poll, or use the qr code on your screen right now and we will be showing you results throughout the week from the poll. back to our topic on israel, hamas and possible cease fire.

this is jeff. dearborn, michigan. democrat. caller: good morning. good job. a lot of callers this morning seem to be laboring under the notion that the bible is a legal document. did that happen when i wasn't looking? that is all i got. thanks. host: tiny in berkshire, texas. republican. caller: good morning. how are you? i think israel -- i'll put it like this. would you want to live with a rattlesnake? would anyone want to live with a rattlesnake? hamas. israel needs to do what samuel told saul god wanted him to do. go down and wipe them out. every one of them. even the animals. that is what israel needs to do.

i don't understand how people can be calling in and supporting a terror organization that has just slaughtered people. they want to call for a cease fire? no. the israeli prime minister is doing right. biden is wrong for not giving him the weapons he needs to destroy them. thank you very much and have a god blessed day. host: john in cleveland, ohio. good morning. caller: good morning. host: what do you think? caller: there should be a cease fire. people say it started on october 7. no, this started before october 7. the israeli government has been arming the extreme right jews with automatic weapons to kill kids throwing rocks. bulldozing homes. for years and years.

violence -- even though israel was attacked, violence don't solve problems. it causes more problems. i think america should stop being a flunky for the israeli government. if they don't, we will be in a war with iran. that is their goal. have a good day. host: here is salvador in california, democrat. caller: good morning. we are already in a war with iran. they have been attacking us for months now. the only way we can have a permanent cease fire is if we get the ayatollah, which would take a strong president, which we don't have. if the united states, israel and

iran got together and said enough enough this -- enough of this nonsense. people are dying. we have to put an end to it or let's really get it on. was it reagan who took the oil platforms out so they had no way to make what they used to finance the houthis and hamas and hezbollah, the tentacles that come from iran? that's about it. a few things to think about. host: alan from hawaii, independently. -- independent line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i decided to blow my 30-day window here. i need to ask you. i'm asking you to get a few

important guests on in the next few days like michael durand. i'm looking at the article that appeared a few weeks ago in mosaic called the anti-israel sanctions machine. it appeared on august 11. the article's premise, which has a lot of evidence to it is that the biden administration -- the first administration to have created a targeting group of sanctions against israel in a subtle way that could accompany directly to the administration. it was done in the light of making the u.s. appear as an ally but also politically favorable to all of the problems domestically and also even some of the political reverberations going on in the world against israel.

the problem is it will backfire. israel, like any prime minister, it could have been anybody. this modus operandi was designed to target the netanyahu and some of the more conservative politically right people in his group. any prime minister, any leader who has faced this type of problem with an organization which has created an army underground which is able to fight a war and bring captive hostages underground and do the attack using allies, including north korea to help build tunnels, iran is funding them. qatar is basically involved too, even though they are supposedly negotiating. these are problems that have never been seen. israel is doing everything they

can do to basically prevent this. you had other guests speak. israel had already had a gigantic cease-fire with gaza. they removed graves. they gave gaza hot houses to basically have complete autonomy and continue to supply water and utilities. this is not something israel was exciting. they were hoping hamas could become more tame. that was a dangerous idea and they were wrong and they are paying the political price for it, both domestically and internationally. that doesn't mean they don't have a right to completely retaliate and eradicate. the premise that you cannot remove ideology has to be weighed in the sense that we get rid of the ideology of the nazis

and the japanese army. you still have them. they coexist. the ideology has become very, very subdued internationally because the war was won. not because we basically had a cease fire but the war had to be won in order for that to actually start to happen. a war has to be won. you have to mitigate it to prevent innocent people from being killed and that's a problem. people who are attacking or hiding behind innocent people as a strategic method of preventing their demise. host: the article he mentioned is called the anti-israel sanctions machine by michael durand of hudson institute. it is on tabletmag.com if you would like to take a look at that. timothy from vermont, democrat.

caller: good morning, mimi. prior to october 7 -- first of all, the mossad is one of the most sharpest counterintelligence agencies on the planet. now, the mossad knew exactly what the hell hamas wanted to do prior to october 7. you will have to bear in mind that netanyahu is in a lot of trouble. he and his wife. it's analogous to trump wanting to run for office because he is in so much trouble. netanyahu knew what the heck was going on. the mossad knew what hamas

was going to do. the problem is that israel does not care about the palestinians. neither does hamas care about the palestinians. they are playing a chess game and the palestinians are the pawns. host: here is the times of israel with this. what military support does the u.s. give israel? it says, what age is mandated by law? in 2016, the u.s. and israeli government signed a 3010-year memorandum of understanding covering the. from october 1, 2018 to september 30 of 2028. that provides a total of $30 billion in military aid over the 10 years.

$33 billion in grants to buy military equipment and $5 billion for missile-defense systems. here is the report on x. if israel wants to fight aware of annihilation, that's their business. the u.s. should not be funding the war. the u.s. should not be giving foreign aid to any country. fernando and galveston, texas. republican. caller: good morning. i wouldn't say it's a good morning at. my problem is that too much stuff is going on around the world. i wish somebody could do something about what's going on in new york. it is getting crazy. real crazy. that's all i gotta say. host: lewis in baldwin, louisiana. independent. caller: good morning. people going back to the bible

and saying this about the bible, god is with the israelis. that is one man's view. the bible was written by men. the israelis did the same thing when they were trying to get their country before 1949. menachem begin was a terrorist. the israelis were terrorists just like a mosses. they did -- hamas is. they did the same thing to the people that was there then. the israelis got put out. jews have the diaspora. that was not there land. -- their land. the country was made by the western powers. they created this problem because they put the israelis on people that were already on the land.

it's the promised land but it is not the promised land anymore. other people have the land. the israelis had to go take the land anyway from the people that were there before they got there. when they came out of egypt. let's keep all the stuff in perspective. the israelis did the same thing to the people that were there before the country got born. there were terrorists -- they were terrorists. host: laura in new britain, connecticut. caller: good morning. i believe it is netanyahu's fault. like the other man said. 1945 or so, after the terrible things that happened to the jews we gave them the land in israel. since then, netanyahu and them

have been taking sentiments, expanding territory, pushing up palestinians, etc. that is what is breeding hamas and terrorist to get angry. israel is basically doing what was done to them in germany. there will never be peace because of netanyahu. every palestinian that is killed now will hate israel for generations. we should tell netanyahu know where money until there is a cease fire and some of the palestinians can live in peace with them. thank you. host: joe on the independent line in maine. good morning. caller: thanks for taking my call. the color before just tell lame thunder except for one thing. i ask everyone to please go to fox network. what is the guys name? matt levine. in early october, before october

7, he interviewed benjamin netanyahu. the conversation was -- mark levine to netanyahu. you know hamas is going to take and kill hostages. what are you going to do about it? this was before it even happened. you know what netanyahu said? hostages will be treated as inconvenient losses. there's a better word for it. that's his quote. casualties of war. i'm sorry. i can't think of what it was. i'm nervous. host: here is john in crystal lake, illinois. democrat. caller: good morning. i think the prompt should be,

should the united states fund the genocide of palestinians? that is all that's going on. we have over 40,000 people massacred so far. two thirds are women and children. just recently joe biden sent over another $20 billion and no one is asking how we are going to pay for it. yet when kamala harris comes out -- i have issues with kamala as far as wanting to continue the biden policies. when they ask about the policies, about her policies they ask her how she will pay for it. we are already paying for israelis to have medicare for all but we can't have any of that? it is nonsense. this genocide needs to end and that is it. host: we got a text from denette.

perhaps we should ask the children of israel, palestine and gaza what they think. my whole life this is going on. stop, stop, stop. won't happen. usa should ignore it. it is not a response ability. mike from elmont, new york. democrat. caller: hi. i want to say israel is a rich country. we don't need to support them financially with this. i would like to -- i don't know how they are dropping bombs pretty much indiscriminate leon palestinians and don't know -- indiscriminately on palestinians and they don't know there are hostages mixed in. israel is not a very good ally. after september 11, there were 400 spies kicked out of washington, d.c. at the george bush's administration they found a bunch of double agents or people spying for israel. they were cooking the books

working for the state department or department of defense to get us involved -- to attack iran. they are not a very good friend of ours. they can support themselves if they want to drop bombs on innocent men and women. i do think hamas is hiding. hamas was not on the food trucks that got bombed individually. i think there is a lot of misinformation happening. israel also -- they kill professors in iran. they kill anybody who can -- if a teach chemical engineering, stuff like that. we should just butt out. host: that is it for this segment. coming up next on washington journal, the campaign 2020 for post-labor day sprint is on.

we will get a fall preview with tom lobianco of 24sight news. later, the issue of housing affordability and with the candidates are saying about it with dennis shea from the bipartisan policy center. we will be right back. ♪ ♪ >> attention middle and high school students across america, it is time to make your voice heard. c-span's studentcam documentary contest is here. this is your chance to create a documentary that will inspire change and make an impact. it should answer the question, your message to the president, what issue is the most important to you or your community?

whether you are passionate about the environment, politics or community stories. studentcam is your platform to shuri -- to share your message to the world with $100,000 in prices -- in prizes including $5,000 in a grand prize. this is your opportunity to make an impact and be rewarded for ur creativity and hard work. enter your submissions today, scan the code or enter studentcam.org. the deadline is january 20, 2025. >> the house will be in order. >> this year c-span celebrates 45 years of covering congress like no other. since 1979 we have been your primary source for capitol hill, providing balanced and unfiltered coverage of government, taking you to where the policy is debated and decided all with the support of american cable companies.

c-span, 45 years and counting, powered by cable. the c-span bookshelf podcast feed makes it easy for you to listen to all of the podcasts that feature nonfiction books in one place to discover new authors and ideas. each week we are making it convenient for you to listen to multiple episodes with critically acclaimed authors discussing history, niagara fees, current events, and culture from our signature programs about books. about books, afterwards, footnotes -- booknotes+. you can find them on c-span now or wherever you get your podcasts and on c-span.org/podcasts. washington journal continues. host: welcome back, joining us is tom, the cofounder and national politics founder of

24/7 news -- the 24 site news. welcome. tell us about it and what is its role in the current media ecosystem. guest: so it is an independent new start up and it started after i got laid off at my last job and the messenger close down and a number of us moved over to sub stack to start and end of tenant news. 24sight is reported news from the ground. create -- occasional scoops when we get them. it is just me right now and a couple of cofounders. and also the podcast and a daily new -- a daily's newsletter where i take the top seven stories that is impacting the way things are moving and put that together. and it is me on the ground hopping between gas stations,

wawa, sheets, and eating gas station food. host: spending a lot of time on swing states. how are you funded? guest: subscriptions and founding members who have supported us. i will tell you that i love it because it keeps me in the field and keeps me talking with people. i had some work to go to the democratic national convention in chicago. and i spent a lot of time in pennsylvania because that is the keystone to this mass as it were. host: you wrote a piece coming pennsylvania has become the center of the political universe. why is that? guest: in a raw math sense, it is 19 electoral votes. when you look at all of the states in and play, the rust belt and the blue wall and south, southwest, it is the largest number and still very

close and depending upon if you are the harris or the trump campaign depending on how you put together that mass, it -- math, it almost all lands with pennsylvania at the center. and it is a short hop up 83 north from baltimore up to harrisburg. so it is easy to get to. and the campaigns love that, they save on air travel. host: a lot of people say that the general public does not really start paying attention until after labor day. guest: yes. host: do you agree with that? guest: i think so. host: even in this campaign? guest: yes. a lot of it has to do with technology and adaptation to technology. if we look at 2016 which i would argue which was peak twitter in terms of influence as the messaging medium and used by political campaigns.

now we are in the post-digital space where a lot of people have tuned out. there used to be a novelty effect and it used to be interesting to have a news alert pop up on the phone a decade ago or two decades ago. now we are trying to get them to stop. guest: and a lot of people have tuned out. obama mentioned this, the gen z kids say touch grass. that is adaptation to technology saying let us put down the phones and have some human interaction. it is ironic because in a way it is returned to form because this is the way campaigns used to be pre-massive digital. so it is almost like a 2004 campaign or 2000 campaign before we had the constant flood of information. host: if you would like to join our conversation you can do so.

the lines are democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. and independents, 202-748-8002. and you can send us a text. that line is 202-748-8003. and we are on social media. i wanted to show you what vice president harris' campaign chair said this. "make no mistake, we are had -- we head into the final stretch of this race as a cle underdogs. donald trump has a motived base of support, with more support and higher favorility than he has had at any point since 2020. ce president harris will face trump on the debate stage, where we expect them to be a formidable opponent. in 2020, the election came down to about 40,000 votes across the battleground states. this november, we anticipate

margins to be similarly razor thin." guest: kind of ironic how classic campaign that is. it is been with facts. the underdog is a spin. and they both want to say that right now. i do not think -- i am not really sure that either one of them is the underdog at this point. it is so razor thin based on on the -- on all the polling that we have seen an early is almost a second presidential race with the tickets finally firmed up. but if you move past the underdog spin that is put out and go to the details, it is razor thin. she mentioned 40,000 votes on thin margins across the battleground states. it is going to be a lot about turnout and i have written about this a couple of times in the 24/7 newsletter. it does feel more like a base election about turning out key

groups of supporters and that is true for trump and i would say the maga base. and while that represents the vast majority of the republican party it is not all inclusive of everyone who identifies and is registered republican. for the democrats and harris it will be women in the suburbs. we see that in the messaging focused on talking about project 2025, talking about the dobbs decision and so, you can see them both trying to amp up who their key teams are. and i am not really sure -- it used to be that you would have candidates pivot to the middle for a general election to try to win over swing voters. i do not know if that is happening and that it will happen this cycle. host: i want to ask you about ad spending and this is npr that got the ad spending -- the red

-- the ad spending. the red is trump and the blue is harris. you can see that pennsylvania is far outspending the next in line, which is georgia and michigan. why is that and what is going on? guest: 19 electoral votes and the next closest one is do not hold me to these numbers and i do not have the map in front of me. georgia is 16 and i think there are two other ones close by and michigan has 16 also. the next nearest number and pennsylvania had more electoral votes. it used to be more akin to texas or new york in terms of its support. and it is the best way to get to 270 electoral votes needed to win the white house. it also has in terms of

spending, we think about campaign ad spending and major metro markets, it is anchored by two major metropolitan markets, philadelphia and pittsburgh. it is incredibly expensive. the only places that are more expensive is new york and california races. they are getting time in los angeles, san francisco and the bay area. i imagine these campaigns would love if you could win based only on running in north and south dakota and paying pennies on the dollar for these campaigns. but it is very expensive. again, it is very tight. it is very close right now. all of these battleground states, we are still watching for a lot of the movement coming out of the conventions and whether it is the honeymoon or not with kamala harris and tim walz. we will see how that develops. everything is so incredibly

tight. host: still within margin of error. guest: absolutely. host: i want to show you two ads that have come out and i want to discuss it. the first is a pro-trump super pac make america great again attacking vice president harris on immigration. [video clip] >> before she was the most liberal u.s. senator, kamala harris was the liberal san francisco prosecutor, the most progressive in all of california. she let an ms 13 gang member go who murdered a father and two sons. she police that she released a felon who then committed murder and protected illegal alien drug dealer so they could escape deportation. kamala harris, a dangerous san francisco liberal. [end video clip] host: the next ad is new republican voters against trump

which talk about former trump voters and why they are not voting for him. [video clip] >> i am living in michigan and i am a two trump voter and i am not voting for him again. trump is stating that he is running for america and he is not. he is running so he could pardon himself and exercise immunity, so that he can rub shoulders with dictators around the world. i will never vote for trump again. [end video clip] host: your reaction to both of those. guest: different messaging strategies for the trump campaign it is leaning on limit -- on immigrations. they see this as one of their big strengths to make sure that people show up. and it is a weakness for vice president kamala harris. and trump himself might have flip-flopped on a number of other things over the years but

he has been very consistent about his position on immigration. regarding republican voters against trump, the testimonials they have been airing what is fascinating is that this is actually something that a number of the conservatives did last year, way back last year when there was still a republican primary and it looked like ron desantis might have a shot at upending things. this is something that a number of conservatives did as well, this style of testimonials saying i am a republican, i do not support this guy. it does not change my position but i do not support this guy. you saw jeff duncan do that over at the dnc. in the polling republican voters against trump, when they were doing that before they got back on board, they saw this as effective with nikki haley voters, moderates and lifelong

conservatives, people who are skittish about where trump stands on things. host: let us talk to some callers. tom in woodbridge, virginia. republican. caller: this is tom. i was calling in originally regarding the hamas issue, but i love this topic even more. i am deeply involved in politics out here in virginia. most people do not understand why they had to get rid of biden. it was not because he was going to lose the presidency, they had to get them off the ticket because he was going to lose every down ballot race. he was driving so many people away from the democratic party, they never would have voted for him. they would have been decimated in the house and senate races. they had to get him off the ticket and they do whatever it took to do so. here is the message that i would have for everyone out there. not only did they lie to you

about biden having dementia. they knew that he did in the 2020 race, they knew that. they lied to you about the hunter biden laptop and russian collusion. they lied to you with the mueller report and impeachments. they lied to you about the border. ok, where they literally opened the border and let in 11 to 20 million immigrants into the country. which the long-term plan is to destabilize the electoral college. host: let's take some of that up. he talked about down ballot races. guest: certainly democrats were very concerned about -- and this is a very typical dynamic. you talk about the top of the ticket having coattails and you want to have good coattails to carry everyone else to make sure

that people show up to vote for the nominee. when biden was in there you had almost the inverse happening. you had talk hoping that maybe people will show up in spite of him being a weak nominee. obviously that dynamic has changed. that was a big concern with him, in addition to potentially losing the white house as well. host: josephine in new jersey. independent, good morning. caller: you know, what concerns me we have two states, new prescott and new hampshire and i might be wrong about the other one, where they allowed the electoral college to reflect the number of votes collected meanings that if it is a certain percentage one way or the other it reflects it. i am sorry this business of if you get one vote more, you

automatically get the entire state, unacceptable. it is another way of erasing all of the votes that get collected. i am telling you that if it had not been for this electoral college the women would be voting against roe v. wade. i am telling you. i know you are all predicting things that i am telling you for three years i've been saying this, it is going to come back to the republicans. they are going to lose in an avalanche. thank you. host: what do you think? guest: close with new hampshire. it was maine that is the other one. it is by congressional district and there are anomalies in the map. and this is why you saw a couple of months ago and i am glad the caller asked that. i should check the status of this. i had on the podcast a couple of months ago the editor of " washington monthly" and we

talked about nebraska's second districts because there are scenarios where you could have kamala harris and donald trump both having 269 votes and it could can -- it could get kicked to the house by a vote by the delegations which is the john eastman and donald trump plan on january 6, which is what they are shooting for. oh, this cycle, i do not expect any kind of blowout. there are no reagans this time around. it could come down to one congressional district. it could come down to omaha, the second district out there in nebraska. if you look at the democratic convention what is so funny is that you have the positioning of the different state delegations with prime seating on the floor and here's a little pocket of nebraska with the cornhuskers right off to the side of the stage. so, it is usually important.

host: the caller also mentioned abortion. how big of an impact do you think that will have? guest: massive. we talk about pocketbook issues and we talk about the economy and things that you see data in and out. for a lot of people they say this day in and out and they live it. especially women. also for father's with daughters -- fathers with daughters going through that. so, these are things -- and often times you will hear about and i used to cover militant -- maryland politics years ago. you would hear long ago william donald schaefer the old governor used to say the thing that he loved about being mayor rather than governor was that you could touch and feel it. you pick up the trash and keep

the streaks -- streets clean and politics. this is a thing that motivates voters. it is not an abstract concept but something that they witness and they take that with them to the ballot box which is hugely effective and important. host: tim in rochester, new york. democrat. caller: good morning. i want to tell a story. two years ago i was working with someone and he trotted up to me about politics and he said i do not see a red wave and the media overhyped things this and that and i said i do not see it really because i told him abortion is going to kill them. sure enough it did not happen. this time i think they are hyping up trump. and i think over the covid a lot of republicans died over that and i do not see him getting the vote. one more thing, back in 2016

people were not talking about james comey and what he did two weeks before that to hilary. i am not going to say it will be a landslide, but i think that trump is going to get smoked. host: lee in new york. republican. good morning. caller: good morning. , lucero -- kamala harris said that her job was to find the root cause of illegal immigration and that was welcoming people with grandiose promises. many voted what she done about the 300 million missing children that are believed to be set --

sex trafficked and prisoners. guest: to the first caller i will say forecasting. and i do not particularly enjoy political forecasting myself. i think it ultimately does a disservice because we are going to find out what the results are. there is an election, and the pole is the -- the poll, the final one is election day and that is what matters. that said there has been a massive increase in the amount of polling that we have had, publicly available polling. some of it is good and some of it is not so good. it goes into these aggregates that we see. and i do not know. we all as reporters, we all got stung after 2016. i was working at cnn back then. and we will are -- we were all

watching the fivethirtyeight.com i'll that went from 80% chance with hillary -- the 538 dial that went from 80% chance with hillary to 80% chance with trump and we watched it real time. those are imprecise and not a good measure. and we miss things. we as reporters, it is impossible to identify every single person and give an exactly correct answer. i give it better and this is what i am trying to do with 24sight news is to go out and talk to people and say what are you concerned about? host: and you can talk to people right here on c-span. and lee wanted to know about the border and root causes. guest: i think that is the fascinating thing. what she said about emotions especially.

you can see the campaigns playing on that. you can see harris and her team really working on that. the border, that is something that she oversaw. i do not know if it is at the level as what the trump campaign said but that is part of her portfolio. and if she can make a good case that you did not do a good job managing this then that becomes effective. i do not know the details on the unaccompanied minors but that is something specific that you can dig into. host: ryan, wisconsin -- rhinelander, wisconsin. independent line. alan, you are next. caller: i want to talk about an issue that the polls do not pick up. student loans. there are 49 million people with federal student loans and another 500 with student loans. more than half of these people are republican and independent. what is most important is that

the overwhelming majority are underwater on their loans and distressed. that is something like 40 million people are seeing the balances go up and not down. and around 37 million people are not paying at all. so this is a huge number of voters. and the worst hurt states are states like georgia, michigan like north carolina and pennsylvania. you know, the red wave did not happen because of student loans. the republicans are idiots who keep filing the lawsuit's trying to stop any kind of relief and they are fighting for the department of education. and meanwhile the democrats are fake on the issue. the democrats are just faking it but the rhetoric is good. if the republicans want to have any chance and i truly mean this. i do not see trump winning those four states.

the republicans have to at a minimum tone it down there rhetoric and quickness -- quit stabbing their finger into the eyeballs of student loan borrowers particularly, the majority of whom are republican and independent. but they need to return bankruptcy protections to student loans. in congress jim jordan can get a bill up and maybe through tomorrow. this is a conservative thing to do. and if they do not do it, i do not see trump having any chance for the republicans. host: what do you think? guest: it is a potential animator as issues go. you know as the caller was talking about that i was thinking about the demographic movement of this. we are now in a moment where millenials -- thank back to c-span playing this clip very often of the macarena in 1996 at

the democratic convention which was played at a time when it was very popular for the dominant boomers as a voting demographic. this was clinton, don't stop thinking about tomorrow. very similar now, almost three decades ladle -- later, money deals, my group -- lineal's -- millennials are ascendant and they have parents who have kids and finances are important. student loans, especially the millennial gigantic bloc of voters feel directly and also something you feel day today. now biden tried to stop it and the supreme court said he could not. they are fighting it out in court. but it touches a lot of people. host: roseann in wisconsin.

democrat. caller: yes. i think the elephant in the room is the electoral college. it is the united states of america and it should be the popular vote, i feel, when an election comes down to four states and they pour so much money into four states as to the outcome of the election i feel like the entire country is not being represented. there has never been an impetus to get rid of it and mitch mcconnell had set on the senate floor if not for the electoral college the republicans would never win again which is why you have gerrymandering and all of these things going on. i do not feel that the country is being represented as a whole. and i do not think people understand as having the president give -- being the supreme leader. you have the house and the senate and everyone is supposed to be working together, not just one person who decides the

outcome of the entire country. thank you for taking my call. host: what do you say to roseann? guest: there have been movements to move to a popular vote and that is tough because the electoral college and the way we elect a president is a foundational compromise and how we are here. you know the bargains between the bigger colonies and the smaller colonies and the big and small states to make sure the balance when this was all being drawn up two and a half -- we are coming up on 250 years since the declaration. when this was being drawn up this was one of the compromises to ensure that all the states would come together so you have some balance of power. it is not a tear any of the majority so there is some minority say. there have been efforts to do that before but it has to go through a constitutional process which is hard. host: youngstown, ohio.

republican line. dan, you are next. caller: kamala harris current entire life took the position of the liberal position on just about every single issue. suddenly before the election she is tough on the border and stealing trump's idea about pacs. social security taxes. the democrats always want to tax people. suddenly she is tough on crime after she supported sanctuary cities her entire career. so for this guy to say that nobody is running to the middle, what are you talking about? the democrats will do anything and lie about anything in order to maintain power. she is the liberal that she has been her entire career but weeks

before the election suddenly she is tough entente -- tough on crime, give me a break. guest: a good point. the messaging on this is now playing into her background as prosecutor and you do wonder. this is why we report on the campaigns and try to get harris to come to a sit-down interview is what will you actually do? this is as they say the world's longest job interview for the most important job in the world. and that is a good question like ok, would you be a hawk on the border? would you try to build the wall or finish building the wall? or the fence, how would you handle this. what harris had said is that she wanted the james lankford bill which trump helped kill in the senate which was a compromise

which was to hire more agents and create legal pathway to citizenship. i mean it is ironic because this has been going on for 20 years. bush was working on that decades ago. host: denise in washington. democrat. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: i was just wondering and i liked the graph that you put up about the spending and what crossed my mind seeing as we just celebrated labor day is using money wisely and smart in politics? and what outcome are you expecting from not only world events but the upcoming debate and court cases being discussed? thank you. guest: great questions. the last time and i hate

predictions i am so bad at them. and i am hardwired to say that the debates do not move things. and every time i say it something insane happens. host: so do not say that. guest: i do not know with this one. it will be incredibly consequential. [laughter] in terms of spending and spending now, when people are tuning in, they can kind of go two ways with this. you have a saturation on just a handful of states. you could have people get sick of it. you see that happen where people say ok, i have heard enough and i already know. this is something that you've heard from a lot of voters earlier in the race and it seems to be happening saying that yes, especially when biden was in there, it was like we know both of these guys and we do not need to hear more.

the perceptions are hard baked. and i am not sure and this might be more indictment of the political industrial complex, i am not sure that especially with trump, harris is different because she is still being defined. i am not sure that advertising moves numbers one way or another as much as people as the consultant class. host: then why spend so much money on it. it is such a big deal to raise the money to spend it on the ads. guest: you know, the difference between earned media and paid media. trump used to be amazing at getting earned media. and earned media in terms of showing up on paper and on their when we do a report and say such and such candidate said this. that tends to work better with voters than advertisements.

but i mean, it is the most powerful job in the world and the money is limitless after a citizens united, why not? host: patricia in arizona. independent. good morning. caller: i am calling because i just want to remind people that the kamala harris will not be any different than joe biden has been. just like joe biden helped only some farmers she wants to help illegals and help them to get free health care. they are very particular and limited in who they help. and if you are a red-blooded american you are going to get left out. also the reason they want to make it illegal for illegals to vote because all they have to do is take off a box that says yes

i am legal and it does not get verified. also the gas lighting. we had an organized crime ring from chile, buying houses in scottsdale. they have venezuelan gangs taking over apartment buildings and the mayor was talking about it. where the democratic governor says that is all misinformation. when there is something that democrats do not want you to know they call it misinformation. also included in that was the covid vaccine, the bad outcomes that were happening that the biden administration was calling zuckerberg up and telling him not to put that. calling it misinformation. whenever there is something they do not want you to know they call it misinformation. host: let's talk about that. what do you think?

guest: i mean there is genuine misinformation out there that as a journalist you know, we would say as professionals there are certain things which are clearly wrong and inaccurate. there was nor child sex trafficking ring in washington, d.c.. that never existed and yet someone still showed up with an ar 15 rifle and shot up the place in 2016. there are real-world effects and that was actual fake news. that was disseminated. demonstrably that is misinformation. in some ways it is a term of art when it moves into the political world. sometimes i campaigns start exaggerating the boundaries of that. you can debate that, what actually counts as misinformation. i would argue as a professional,

working very hard on accuracy in this time, there is real misinformation. there was -- in terms of look, you have to be a citizen to vote. naturalized or otherwise. back in 2017, so i wrote a biography of mike pence two years ago. he led the commission to investigate whether undocumented immigrants like a surge of undocumented immigrants voted for hillary clinton which is how she won the popular vote and not the white house. the commission disbanded without ever fidning -- finding anything. this has been looked into and there are enforcement mechanisms and by law unless you are a citizen you cannot vote. that is one of the key benefits to becoming a citizen of the united states. host: what is former vice president mike pence doing now

and what are his plans? guest: he has carved out an interesting space. i was watching him during the republican convention. ham and a number of former republican officials did not attend. he was off with karen pence riding horses in montana. and they both love riding horses and they used to do that in indiana down near bloomington if you drive due west. and i think this gets to the broader dynamic inside of the republican party. he will still pop up now and then about pro-life issues and antiabortion when trump makes a statement saying i do not want to talk about this he writes an op-ed saying we need to talk about this. so he is really staying in that world.

you know i wrote about this in the biography and pence is a chameleon on a number of things. but that christian rights stance he has had almost his entire life. as far as advancing american freedom, i do not think he is running for anything ever again. i do not know anybody who thinks that he will. it feels almost like that position that you have a jill stein or rfk jr. insider raise -- race, lifting the issue so it is front and center. host: jerry and new jersey. -- in two new jersey, democrat. caller: i have two questions. yesterday i was watching tv and i saw walz and harris.

walz was asked about the six steps of the israelis and he totally ignored it. he heard it but he ignored it. and then i watched kamala harris with the earbuds and the phone to her ear which is ridiculous. and what i want to know is how you can take the pulse of the country when you have the media so blatantly, i mean i am saying blatantly letting her get away with hiding, not saying nothing. basically, thumbing her nose at everybody and the people do not know what is going on with her. and the other question i have for you is, even like i see box and everybody blames fox for the news but it is not from pappy.

every chance they get they go against him. how can we take the fear -- the real pulse of america when there is not a media outlet that sincerely tells you the truth. and believe me, c-span is the worst. most of them are democrats. and i've seen a lot of cnn. guest: clearly harris and walz do not do as many interviews as trump and vance. now, trump was not doing a lot of interviews after january 6. he dials it up and then disappears himself. i mean, they are politicians. not to sound too jaded i am used to this after years of covering

these folks. they do need to answer questions. personally i disagree with the comment that the media and that us reporters have not been asking for this. we have been asking. that is eventually why you got that sit down over at cnn and i thought she did a great job pressing her. she did such a good job that you had people on the left saying while that is unfair you cannot ask about that. i thought that was a good job of pressing the questions as they were coming up. we are pressing for these things and sometimes you have to press harder. and that is how we get the answers. host: the cofounder and national politics reporter for 24sight news and also the host of the 24sight podcast. thank you for joining us. coming up we will dig into the issue of housing affordability with -- and what the candidates are saying about it with dennis shea of the bipartisan policy

center. stay with us. >> watched the abc news presidential debate simulcast live on the c-span networks. tuesday, september 10 as the candidates go head-to-head for their first debate at -- since securing their party's nomination. a preview show starts at 8:00 p.m. followed by the debate at 9:00 p.m. eastern. the presidential debate simulcast live september 10, presented by c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. >> if you ever miss any of c-span's coverage you can find it anytime online at c-span.org. videos of key hearings, and other events feature markers that guide you to important highlights. they appear on the right-hand side hit play on select videos.

the timeline tool makes it easy to quickly get an idea of what was debated and decided. scroll through and spend a few minutes on the points of interest. >> c-spanshop.org is c-span's online store. browse through apparel, books, home to core and accessories. there is something for every c-span fan and every purchase helps support the nonprofit information. shop now at any time at c-spanshop.org. >> c-span now is a free mobile app featuring your unfiltered view of what is happening in washington, live and on-demand. keep up with the biggest events with live streams of floor proceedings and hearings from the u.s. congress, white house events, the courts, campaigns and more at your fingertips.

you can also stay current with the latest episodes of washington journal and find scheduling information for c-span's tv networks and radio plus a variety of compelling podcasts. c-span now is available at the apple store and google play. scan the qr code to download it now or visit our website. c-span now, your front row seat to washington anytime, anywhere. >> friday night, watch c-span's 2024 campaign trail, a weekly roundup of c-span's campaign coverage providing a one-stop shop to show what candidates are saying first-hand accounts from political reporters, updated pol l and fundraising data. watch the campaign trail friday night at 7:30 p.m. eastern. online at c-span.org or download

at c-span now, our free mobile app or wherever you get your podcasts. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. >> since 1979 in partnership with the cable industry, c-span has provided complete coverage of the halls of congress from the house and senate floors congressional hearings, briefings and committee meetings. c-span gives you a front row seat of how issues are debated and decided with no commentary, no interruptions and completely unfiltered. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back to washington journal where we are joined by dennis shea, the executive director at the center for housing policy at the bipartisan

housing center. welcome. housing affordability is a big issue for a lot of americans. what are the key factors driving up the cost of housing? guest: we see the housing affordability challenge through three lenses. the first lens is supplied. there is a mismatch between the demand for housing and available supply. that is the first lens. we need to increase the supply of affordable homes on the rental side and for sale side, particularly starter homes. the second is preservation. we need to preserve the existing stock of affordable homes. we lose a lot of home to obsolescence or they move up to market rate, so we need to really pay attention to the need to preserve the existing stock of affordable housing. the third lens is on the demand

side. there are going to be people on the country and families in the country whose incomes will not match their housing cost. so at bpc we do support a number of important demand-side initiatives, particularly for example the housing choice voucher program with tell -- which helps to .4 billion low income families afford in the private rental market. with that program it is important and needs to be approved to encourage greater landlord participation. just to summarize, see the housing affordability through those three lenses. host: let us drill down a little bit and start with the supply side. how undersupplied is the u.s. housing market? guest: that is a great question. there are various estimates.

moody's put out 1.5 million. the national realtors says that we have under built life 5.5 million a few years ago. we can safely say that as a country we have under built housing by millions of homes both rental and for sale over the past 15 years, since the great recession. host: so why is it and why did that recession sparked under building? guest: when the recession hit, it crushed to the homebuilding industry and we lost a lot of jobs in the homebuilding industry. the residential construction industry and those jobs that remained unfilled in many respects. that has been a big part of it. we have had a major, throughout the country we have a history of restrictive zoning and land-use regulations which limits the types of housing that can be built in certain communities. and these restrictions have definitely kept down supply.

when covid hit, it led to a lot of shortages of he homebuilding materials like lumber, steel, and copper wire and the prices got shot up which was reflected in the housing. and when the fed started tightening and the mortgage rates went up, lock in effect. people who have mortgages at 3% or got in when the mortgage rates were low are sitting there saying i am not going to move. host: they cannot afford to. guest: they cannot afford to pay 6% or 7% to go to another house which has locked-in a lot of inventory. host: you talk about the zoning rules and all of those regulations that are can -- that are restricting supply. why is that? why are there strict zoning laws

that make it so hard to build new houses? guest: i think one of the reasons that people have -- that they went into effect was to preserve the character of the neighborhood. so issues like single families home. every lot has to be used for single-family home. issues like parking minimums. we need to have a lot of parking spaces but in some communities people have realized do not need to have all of these parking minimum requirements that are as stringent. and when you look to put a parking space for a multifamily or apartment it can be extremely expensive especially if it is underground. some people say there is a racial component to this to keep the racial compensation -- composition of their communities the way it is.

so, there are a lot of different factors. host: so once you move into a neighborhood you start voting for zoning regulations to keep some people out. guest: for a lot of people the home is their most important asset. and if they fear that the character of their neighborhood is going to change, that might impact the value of their home. so, i am not one of those people who say these are bad people who restrict or support these restrictive zoning and land use requirements. as a society, a lot of communities are waking up. and this is a bipartisan issue. governors like the republican governor of montana and got -- and utah like democrat -- and democratic states like oregon and california are realizing

that we need to loosen up on these regulations on the land use and zoning requirements to allow a greater diversity of housing in communities. host: we are talking to dennis shea on housing affordability. if you would like to join our conversation the numbers are democrats,1. -- 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. and independents, 202-748-8002. sticking on the supply side vice president harris called for the construction of 3 million new housing units. how would that get done? what that make a difference? guest: let me say that i believe the bipartisan sweet spot on housing affordability is the need to increase supply of homes. i think there is broad agreement among both parties that we really need to increase the supply of homes. so a couple of elements.

vice president harris called for 3 million new homes over the next four years. and a couple of the ideas that she has put forward are already pending in congress and enjoy bipartisan support. she calls for the enactment of a tax credit to support the production and rehabilitation of affordable rental housing. that is a reference to the low income housing tax credit which has been around for 36 years and george mitchell, john danforth, i know your viewers are political people so they know those two names. the republican and democrat that created the program which has led to 3.7 million affordable rental homes over the past 30 some odd years. vice president harris -- there is legislation in congress that would dramatically expand the low income housing tax credit and the federal support for it. and that is broad -- that has

broad bipartisan support and over 200 cosponsors in the house, both republicans and democrats. the other thing she is calling for is the neighborhood homes investment act which is modeled after another tax incentive to encourage private developers to build affordable starter homes for sale in distressed communities. that has broad bipartisan support in congress and those are two ideas. host: that would be a tax incentive? guest: tax incentives to developers to invest their money in affordable rental housing and affordable starter homes for sale. and vice president harris has called for another tax incentive for starter homes on top of that neighborhood homes investment act. host: let us talk to callers. william. houston, texas. democrat. caller: good morning c-span and sir,, hostess and guest.

i have a question. i happen to live in an apartment complex that is managed and owned by a bank. and i have to have 3 -- three times the income of my rent. but when i go apply for a loan from the same bank purchase a home which would be 400 or $500 less than the rent i will be paying for i get denied. but they will give me a new lease. why is it that it works for others? my neighbor is moving next week into one of the same properties i looked at. needless to say we do not look alike when you see us. there are a lot of reasons why

that meet the needs to rent at five -- at high ends places but go and try and buy a house. guest: thank you for sharing your situation. that is an issue that for example the regulator for fannie mae and freddie mac has looked at. how to do credit scoring. and i personally believe that if someone has been paying their rent on time for a significant period of years, that should definitely be counted toward as a positive in your credit score. if you are paying utility bills and the rent on time and doing other things on time, that definitely should be a factor in demonstrating your credit worthiness. that is my personal opinion. host: alex in mountain view, california. independent. good morning. caller: i have a quick comment and then question. the comment is simply in all of

the discussions of the housing problems i have never heard of anyone talking about the impact of illegal immigration on the price of housing. over the past decades the cumulative number of people here illegally is approximately 60 million. here's my question. what is the impact of their presence on the price of housing and vacancies? if they simply did not exist or return to their homelands, what would be the decline in pricing and increase in vacancies? if i may, one quick additional question. are you aware of anyone who is actually looking at this problem -- what the impact of illegal immigration is on housing? thank you, that's what i wanted to ask. guest: i am not familiar with

any particular study on going now to look at that issue but many people say that it is an issue of supply and demand. if you increase the demand for housing and the supply remains the same, you are going to lead to higher housing costs for folks. i know senator vance on the campaign trail, or at least in the past, has cited the issue of illegal immigration impacting housing affordability. host: and that one of the policy solutions is the mass deportation of immigrants. do you think that would impact housing? guest: i have not looked at that issue. we are not -- we haven't looked at the issue of housing and immigration. or the issue of mass deportation. i think alex raises an issue, but senator vance on the campaign trail has cited that as a problem. host: republican mine, kyle,

truth or consequences new mexico. guest: uh-oh, truth or consequences. [laughter] caller: i know, right? thanks. airbnb, that's my -- i call you guys sometimes, but airbnb's. can you give a grunt or something to acknowledged the effective airbnb's and short-term rentals on the housing market? i moved to truth or consequences from colorado. i bought a house on my own. i worked my butt off. when i was 28, i bought a house in colorado and i sold it when i was 35. around there. and i moved down here. um, managed to springs, colorado

, 2012 or so, past limits on short-term rentals. they are about the same ties -- same sized town. they said only 271, grandfathered, for short-term rentals. bam. host: so, when you say limits, kyle, limits on the number of properties that can be short-term airbnb's? guest: exactly. and there's got to be a percentage. like, it's not the same everywhere. but short-term rentals truly destroyed towns. they do. they do. you don't have voters. host: let's get a response. go ahead, dennis. guest: full disclosure, i'm on

the affordable housing advisory council for airbnb. they put together a people -- a group of people in the housing community to inform them on housing policy. let me just full disclosure, i'm a member of that committee. the argument, airbnb rentals have helped improve affordability for many people who rent their home out during times when they are not there and it has helped people to meet their mortgage or meet their rental payment. so, there is a lot of evidence to suggest that that dynamic has helped people with housing affordability. i'm about to start reading some materials about new york city. they limited airbnb rentals to see what the, what the impact on housing supply and housing affordability might be. host: and what do you think about limiting corporations, large corporations, from buying up a lot of rental property?

what are your thoughts on that? guest: you know, i think we need more private investment. a lot of those homes being purchased may not have been on the market, but for the investment being made, may have needed rehabilitation. i don't see them as being a dominant force in the rental market at all. host: ida, new britain, connecticut. democrat, good morning. caller: hello. my name is ida. hi. i don't quite understand the difference or -- let's put it this way, if people are going to be allowed to rent apartments and the government is going to control certain parts of that by saying how long or whatever, the short-term business is, whatever the problems are, if the government is going to get into it and the landlord has to rent to somebody, there is -- there

is always a problem when, say, the tenant doesn't live up to his deal or the landlord doesn't live up to their deal and they just leave the place and it's a horror. you do have awful landlords, right? and you do have horrible tenants at times. the problem, for me, is if you are going to take a chance and rent your house out or part of your house out to somebody, you ought to be able to put them out pretty fast if they don't -- not only don't just pay the rent, the worst part, but if they, if they, if they don't, they don't live properly, doing drugs in the house or anything. you have a problem getting people out of your house. end the government has, they don't have section eight to get

people in, but they don't make it easy for landlords to get them out if something is wrong. housing is very, very difficult problem. i don't blame any government agencies. i don't blame landlords. i don't blame tenants. but there is that constant battle between the landlord and the tenant and when you are talking about renting housing, this has nothing to do with buying housing. that's another problem that we will leave for another day. host: all right. guest: it's a very interesting discussion and commentary on the tension between landlord and tenant rights and responsibilities. it is an ongoing debate during pandemic. many states, there was a federal

eviction moratorium. many states had similar measures . there were also emergency rental assistance for tenants. you know, that was during a time of emergency and crisis. i will say, just since we are in the political season, president biden proposed federal rent control statutes, put forward federal rent control ideas that would apply to sort of larger landlords capping rents at 5% over the next couple of years. if the landlord refused to cap the rent, he would not or she would not benefit from certain tax depreciation benefits. that has created a lot of controversy between those who think rent control is a good thing and those who think it is a disincentive for creating more supply of rental housing.

host: what do you think? guest: i personally don't think it is a good thing. at the center we haven't taken a position on it, but on our website we have a lot of the arguments on both sides of it. as a general matter, i don't think rent control is a good thing. host: let's talk to dane in tennessee, good morning. caller: our hedge fund managers buying large quantities of property in big cities, certain areas, and once they reach a certain point, they control the rent price, the price of rent? we heard that in nashville when the rent a year ago went up to $2600 for a small two bedroom apartment. host: hedge funds. guest: i don't know the particular situation in nashville. there are other types of private

investment in both homes for sale and single-family rentals and apartment buildings. apartment buildings. i will say that since this is a political, we are in political season, vice president harris has put forward a proposal that would it would allow the use of algorithms by landlords to set rents. we have not taken a position that -- on that at the terwilliger center, but this issue is on the minds of many. host: another harris policy initiative is 25 thousand dollars for first-time homebuyers. what do you think of that? will that boost demand? guest: well, this is an area

where there is not a lot of bipartisanship. republicans will say that if you write a check for 25 thousand dollars, if you provide that assistance, it's just going to increase demand and to be priced into the costs of a home. it's not going to, without a increase in housing supply, you are just going to cause home prices to increase. host: illinois, independent mine , stephen, you are next. caller: yeah, i moved into a house on the west side of chicago. all the rent, there were about 35 vacant lots within two or three blocks where i purchased this home. alderman bennett basically blocked the building of the new construction, houses, which

would have increased the price of housing, my house. would have created new homes. he blocked it because there was a black-owned contractor to build these houses or apartments. i see it going on again, where i saw him on tv last week, about this gambling, casino, with construction workers from the cabrini green projects. there will never be another house built or produced ever again, or built with such

magnitude. host: dennis shea, any comment there? guest: i don't. it's a very local issue. host: virginia, independent, good morning. caller: i first of all want to correct your host about what he said previously, that [indiscernible] are helping. it's not true. people with primary residences, they don't do airbnb on primary residences. they purchase other properties and use it for airbnb. that's one thing. and it's not about supply and demand. in fact, we have millions and millions of vacant properties. it's when government starts lowering interest rates, a lot of people start buying up these properties low interest rate, they don't want to sell it, they are doing it, renting it out as

airbnb's. we should come up with different taxation codes. we can control that. today i can't move to an area, i can't afford anything. the only option i have is rent and rent has gone up pretty much a lot. we also have foreign companies buying up a lot of properties. i know you tried to dodge that to say that you don't have any knowledge about that, saying it's not true, but foreign companies are buying land and properties and squeezing citizens from being able to buy anything. host: we'll get a response but i wanted to make sure you saw this, realtor.com, it's about housing supply. this is the data that they are giving from 2012.

up to 2000 23. you and see the number of homes here going down and this is the gap between the home and supply. you can take a look at that at realtor.com. go ahead, dennis shea guest:. guest:with chris --dennis shea. guest: with respect to the under building issue, freddie mac, the realtors, 25 million under built. moody's, 1.5 million under built . there have been multiple economic studies that say we have simply under built housing on both the rental and homeownership side by millions of homes. insufficient to meet the demand as households are forming. so, i will just leave it at that. with respect to airbnb, you are right. there are people who have bought multiple homes to rent out as airbnb rentals, but there are also people who have used their

own home that they live in and have rented it out as an airbnb. host: here's christian, new haven, connecticut, democrat. caller: thanks for taking my call. i want to point out that people have no idea how expensive it is to own a home. i think if you look at the mortgages as a big expense, but actually the biggest expense that has been going up, at least in this part of the country over the last 10 years, some of my biggest expenses, and i'm a landlord, are the property taxes have gone up at least roughly between 50% and 100% over the last 10 years. insurance, homeowners insurance has gone up 50% to 100% over the last 10 years. water, sewer, 50% to 100% over the last 10 years.

electric, up 50% to 100% over the last 10 years. you are talking about a 3000 square-foot house, you have got to put a roof on that thing. going to class to $25,000. painting that thing will cause to $25,000. permitting for the most simple things is complex and expensive. the mortgage is actually the least of my expenses. fortunately, i don't have mortgages anymore. but if you want to talk about the price of owning a home, the biggest reason people cancel their deals is when they get into the closing and they start adding up all these costs, it just folds. they don't have the money for the insurance. they didn't calculate the property taxes right. the property taxes, by far, are going to be your most, your biggest expense when owning a

home. guest: all right. great point, christian. owning a home can be very expensive, i think you made some great points. with rising home prices, you have rising property taxes as the home values get reassessed and taxes are then levied against the upwardly revised home price. that really negatively impacts particularly older americans who are on fixed incomes and may have paid off their mortgage and are sitting at home and property taxes have gone significantly up. another issue that christian raised that is a good point is the rising home owners insurance over the past couple of years. we have seen the costs of homeowners insurance in many states, particularly those impacted by weather events,

really skyrocket. it's becoming a major piece of the puzzle of the housing affordability problems, dealing with, dealing with that, finding solutions. alabama, for example, they fortified groups in their homes. that seems to be a possible solution. i know that we are at the center looking at possible bipartisan federal responses to how to mitigate rising property insurance costs and its impact on housing affordability. host: this one comes from x, "i'm not clear how the $25,000 will be allocated. is it a credit at closing? a tax credit to reduce the property taxes? what are the details of this benefit? guest: i understand it to be limited to first-time homebuyers with a $25,000 grant.

that is how i understand it. host: here's wanda from chattanooga, tennessee, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. my first question is -- is there a correlation between osha and mold in the home? my second question is -- what are some of the -- what are some of the processes with renting to own with section eight? host: what was a question on section eight? caller: sorry, i was wondering, what are the policies around renting to own for section eight? guest: rent to own. osha, i believe, those regulations apply to work areas

where there is employment and workforce, i believe. i might be wrong on that. rent to own i believe on section eight, only certain public housing authorities. section eight is a program for the viewers that provides a rental subsidy that covers 30% of low income household income contribution to the rent. the difference between that and the fair market rent, section eight covers the difference. it helps 2.4 million households annually. i believe there's a lot of variation. section eight is run by local public housing authorities. i know that some have rent to own programs, but i don't know, i don't know which ones those are and i don't think it is really a highly prevalent program. host: jay sanders sent us this

on x. "you study housing, you must know about senator harris's renter release act. tell viewers how you think that bill would have worked." guest: i'm not familiar with senator harris' 2018 renter really fact, sorry about that. -- release -- relief act, sorry about that. host: miriam, turn down your tv. caller: yes, what happens when a woman ends up alone in her retirement and you don't have a home anymore, so you rent a place and the rent stays the same forever, and then somebody comes in and buys all these places, then they raise your rent? in four years my rent has been raised three times.

this will be the fourth year and they have raised it three times. when you are on a fixed income, you cannot afford that. they just buy up all these places and raise your rent. host: we've got some information on you -- for you on the rental relief act. the harris rental relief act, reintroduced in april of 2018, would create a monthly refundable credit for households whose housing costs exceed 30% of their income, the goal being to help low income people across the country afford rent. supporters included the national low income housing coalition, national allow -- alliance to end homelessness, the fair alliance of the carolinas, apply to anyone making $100,000 or less. guest: this is a renter tax credit.

this is an idea that has been put forward by various advocacy groups over the past 10 years in washington, d.c. it hasn't gotten traction, but you know, with rent going up, so many americans struggling with high housing costs, the idea of a renter tax credit could have some political legs. host: here's robert in miami, florida, independent. caller: good morning. one correlation not being discussed is the biden harris immigration policy and how it is going to affect housing affordability. i'm using low numbers, but assuming there were 8 million undocumented people in our country illegally, how will that exacerbate housing affordability? where will these people end up? it's a terrible policy. the government, at least the biden harris administration, has let americans down.

what are your thoughts? host: we actually talked about this, robert. anything you want to add? guest: no. laws of supply and demand still apply and if there is more demand for housing and the supply of housing has not gone up, housing costs are going to go up. again, senator vance has mentioned this issue in the past and i believe recently on the campaign trail. guest: linda, him -- host: linda, missouri, good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i don't know why everything always goes back to immigration. i don't understand how a homeowner doesn't have any recourse when these people come into your neighborhood, buy up homes, fix them up, sell them for way more than what your home is probably worth, but you are stuck with the same tax increase and we don't have a recourse. i don't understand that. some of those who come in and do that, i can't even, i wouldn't even qualify for that loan, so

how can they put that on my home? i don't have it, other than the construction on my property. i did everything it was since i've been here. i don't understand. it's totally unfair. you can ride by, you don't need to come in. you can ride by and increase my taxes on my home because someone bought a house for a lower amount and fixed it up and sold it for two or three times more. host: any comments on that? guest: i don't know the color's personal situation. sometimes homes need to be rehabilitated, improved. you know, it sounds like it might be impacting her property taxes, which i can understand would be, if you are on a fixed income, would be a problem. host: cindy, sara hughes, good morning.

-- syracuse, good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. you haven't talked about senior homes. rentals. i wanted to talk about landlords raising your rent. i moved in in august of 2020. it's august 24. i started at 1175 and it has gone up to 1835. that's over $600 in three years. almost four years. host: what up -- guest: well, i think this says we need to increase the supply of affordable rental housing. it's particularly important for seniors. there's not enough rental housing that is connected to supportive services. we have done a lot of work on the connection between housing and aging with our task force called the senior health and

housing task force, with luminaries in the housing world, we came up with that report six or seven years ago, a series of recommendations. looking at the demographics in the united states, perhaps the largest growing segment of the population is the 65 and older segment. many people in that age group want to age in place. they want to stay in their own homes, their own communities, aging in place. unfortunately, many of our homes in our communities, they are ill-equipped. physically, in the home, doesn't have the characteristics allowing for safe homes. i know that with my mother. she aged in place in the home that we grew up in. she passed away there. probably not the best place for her to live.

but she wanted to stay there. people want to stay in their own communities. they know the grocery store, they know the post office, they don't want to move. we also need to get more senior housing connected to support services as well. host: is there any legislation right now in congress that is bipartisan that could pass that would actually impact housing supply and the cast -- costs of housing? guest: i think if you pass the affordable housing credit improvement act, the expansion of the low income housing tax credit, that has strong bipartisan support. people estimate that will lead to 2 million affordable new rental homes over the next 10 years. then we should pass the neighborhood homes investment act, creating a tax incentive to stimulate the production of starter homes for sale. that has been estimated to create about 500,000 homes over

the next 10 years. those two, those two steps would be really important. they both have bipartisan support. next year, the tax cuts and jobs act will expire, the 2017 tax bill. there will be a lot of consideration of tax policy next year. i know people who support, advocates, affordable housing advocates like myself, we are hoping those provisions get -- and maybe other things, that they get put into the tax bill in 2025. host: all right, dennis shea, thank you so much for joining us. guest: thank you, mimi. host: and coming up, more of your phone calls. you can start calling in now. the numbers are -- democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001.

independents (202) 748-8002 -- independents, (202) 748-8002. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ >> since 1979, in partnership with the cable industry, c-span has provided complete coverage in the halls of congress from the house and senate floors to congressional hearings, party briefings, and committee meetings. c-span gives you a front-row seat to how issues are debated and decided, with no commentary, no interruptions, and completely unfiltered. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. >> if you ever miss any of c-span's coverage, you can find it any time at c-span.org.

videos that feature markers i need you to newsworthy highlights. they appear on the right-hand side when you hit play on select videos. this tool makes it easy to quickly get an idea of what was debated and decided in washington. scroll through and spend a few minutes on c-span's points of interest. >> nonfiction book lovers, c-span has a number of podcasts for you. listen to best-selling nonfiction authors and influential authors on our podcasts, authors who are making things happen. book notes plus, weekly hour-long conversations regularly featuring fascinating authors of nonfiction books on a wide variety of topics. about books takes you behind the scenes of the nonfiction book publishing industry with insider

interviews, industry updates, and bestseller lists. find all of those podcasts by downloading the free c-span now app, wherever you get your podcasts, or our website, c-span.org/podcasts. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back to "washington journal," it is open forum and we are taking your calls. first off, i just want to remind you that the debate is happening next week. c-span will have full coverage of next tuesday's abc presidential debate between vice president harris and former president trump. also, we want to know what you think about if debates matter. will it impact your vote this fall? you can vote on our poll,

c-span.org/pole. you can also hold your phone up to that qr code, you can vote there. we will be showing you those results throughout the week. we will go to robert in hollywood, maryland, independent line. caller: good morning, how you doing? host: good. caller: i don't know where to start. your previous caller had a lot of useful information, thank you for having him on. you had someone last week, calling in about income and the way to finance the social situation of this country. you know, the costs of everything is going up through the roof. i don't understand where it is coming from. you've got to think about it also, the raising of the minimum wage benefits the people making minimum wage, but the costs trickles down through the economy. therefore i'm looking at a six

dollar pay cut per hour because i'm not being compensated for out of pocket items. there's something to think about right there. host: all right, robert. let's talk to aiden in ellicott city, maryland. caller: i wanted to speak about immigration as well. i think a lot of the collars on this network treat immigrants purely as consumers, purely as taking resources from the community, homes from the community, but they are people, you know? people who come from another country. when you look at population growth, they come from mothers, 18 years, they grow up just the same. yes, they take jobs and the jobs they use to pay for consumption, making new jobs. look at the economic effect of immigration on employment, it's close to zero. immigrants can work housing and construction jobs. the problem in so many of

markets is that we are not meeting supply. the problem isn't that we are adding more people to the economy. if that was true, population growth would be horrible from the -- for the economy. but it's not. these are all real people participating in human life. host: here's charles in west covina, republican mine. caller: housing. i try, i'm a small developer, it is almost impossible. i have homes i would love to build for people. small condos. but you can't get them through the city council. we had them installed, i almost gave up in west covina. i can't get anything through. i had 21 of them that i would love to build. so, when they talk about housing, we try we try to build housing for people, affordable housing that they can afford,

young people, to start out, but to get it through the city council, it's endless. it takes three years to four years and that's if we get it approved. host: why is that? do they give you a reason as to why they turn you down? caller: the people with the homes around them, they are the older type homes spread out in large lots and they don't want two-story condos. well, that's fine. that's fine in the 50's and 60's, but not in today's market. there is no market for a full home on a full-sized lot unless you are extremely wealthy. we cannot supply those homes or people starting out, young people or older people that just want a home. they go to the council.

they protest. they are voted in by these people and are turned down. it takes about $70,000 to get a, to get any type of small condominium complex in front of the council after you have purchased the property. and property is very expensive. you have to go through many, many loopholes with the city, the county, and the state. those things are understandable. they don't want bad housing built, they want the sewerage, the water, make sure the land -- but you do all this and they turn it down. how can you build homes? in my city there are many large lots that were agriculture at one time that are just vacant. and of course, i would like to build some homes on it for young people. but i have to do what the market says they can sell and that's

two-story condominiums. that's what people by today. they don't buy homes with large yards and nice driveways, you know? so. host: all right, charles, thanks for sharing that with us. angela, democratic line, maryland. caller: yes, i also wanted to talk about the immigration numbers, i hear so many false numbers. i was watching representative crenshaw a couple of weeks ago on bill mark. he says that in four years there were 8 million encounters and 2 million peoples let into the country to seek asylum. 2 million. i looked up the numbers myself. i believe i went to the government site, dhs. 2 million asylum-seekers in two years. that was apparently too much and biden issued an executive order and the number has now dropped

to what it was during covid. that was under title 42. i think we have a good handle now on the immigration. the problem is, even if you look at the trump adds he says there are 10 million illegals under kamala harris. i'm thinking, yeah, there are between 10 and 20 million illegals in this country. there were 10 million illegals under trump. they have been here since reagan did his last amnesty. the facts are that biden in four years only released 2 million in the country and the senate border bill, they misrepresent that. they said that once 5000 are let in? no. 5000 encounters. you don't have to let a single one of those encounters in. i hope that kamala harris draws out trump over these lies on the

immigration numbers. i will take 10,000, 20,000, $30,000 a year of asylum-seekers over wannabe dictators trying to use mishap militias. i will take the asylum-seekers over that any day. thank you so much, c-span. host: arkansas, democratic life, dashed line, richard. caller: two things to talk about, quickly. the palestinians and the protests going on in israel. i don't know what the protesters want. do they want to go in there and sing songs to get them back? i don't understand. netanyahu is doing what he can. if i were netanyahu, i would backup my forces to the safe zone, open the gates, and tell the protesters if you can do it better, you go get them. see how that works out.

point number two, the democratic party, i don't know what is going on with this country. they pulled off a modern-day ides of march. they appointed someone in there that isn't even elected, she was appointed. what does it take for people to understand that? how did that work for rome? think about it. show me the word demcy constitu. anybody. thank you. host: arthur, springfield, virginia, independent line, good morning. caller: early in life, i was a republican, i voted republican. i did change over to be a democrat. in the same sense, i'm fiscally conservative but socially liberal with policies. so, there's hardly a place within these parties to find a comfortable seat.

but i just recently watched on youtube a little segment on rodeo drive where they ask how much money people made. lots of millionaires, what do you do, you know? they asked who they would vote for. out of the seven or eight that they did, seven said trump. basically because they were very wealthy. in my younger days, i had the same idea, you want a country run by a ceo with business acumen. then we got trump. our country is not a company. it's not about the almighty dollar. it's about politics, taking care of the needy, and seeing where people can be held accountable and responsible. one person in the segment talked about regulations and how, you

know, trump let all the regulations go and you know, democrats want to come back in and have it. not one time where they asked about the pfizer crisis -- about the housing crisis of 2008 and who was held accountable for that. who went to jail. it's just disheartening. i want the people listening, we need to put the true politicians -- i do believe kamala harris will fight not only for the middle class people, but she will take care of the needs of the country. i'm all about, like the last caller said, i hope people will wake up and we will have a good election, a good quality election and a decent transition and continue our country in the progress we are going. thank you very much. host: here's any in saint johnsbury, vermont. -- emmy in st. john's berry,

vermont. caller: i wish you would have someone on to discuss the 12th amendment, the electoral college ties. it's not from the civil war or anything. it was ratified in 18 oh four. meaning it was definitely put in by the founders of the constitution. the reason why i trump's call in 2022 georgia was just trying to get an exact number that they lost by, he was trying to get the electrical college tie. that's because they knew that once you are on the electrical college -- electoral college tie , he doesn't go to courts or lawyers or anything, it goes directly to congress and of the special qualification for the

amendment is that each state only gets one. it has to be said by congress, each state only gets 1.1 vote. so, rhode island gets a vote, california gets a vote. when this is done, the democrats and republicans know that there are more red states than blue states. so, the red states automatically win in the case of an electoral tie. this was the plan a. plan b was january 6. after they spoke with that man in georgia who saved us from giving them those votes, that right there, trump would have won his second and not needed january 6. please put someone on who can explain this about the 12th amendment. it's very important that we find this out before we get to the election because trump is planning to do it again. host: thanks.

this story, "kamala harris speaking in northampton at a brewery to help small business plans in new hampshire." it says, "the vice president is scheduled to speak to supporters at a campaign, campaign officials have just confirmed, bringing her campaign to new hampshire for the first time. " we will have coverage of that today at 2:50 p.m. eastern time here on c-span. also on c-span now and c-span.org. elliott, south carolina, republican. caller: hello, my name is elliot. i live in beaufort, south carolina. i believe that the three democrats you had before me are wrong. one of the things i would like to bring up to the people is

that replacement theory, the progressive theory, it's the replacement theory of the citizens of the united states to be replaced by noncitizens. the other thing i would like to bring up is something called unrealized capital gains. the progressive would like you to pay on your amount of money that you have, let's say your 401(k) or ira, a special tax if it goes up. they want to charge you 20% of money that you never pulled out. thank you so much. host: here's "the arizona central," "jd vance returns to mesa church." we will have live coverage of that starting at 8 p.m. eastern read here on c-span, c-span now, and c-span.org.

a few other things for your schedule today. the american enterprise institute hosts a panel discussion in the final weeks before the 2024 presidential election, including amy walters, the editor-in-chief of the cook political report. that discussion starts at noon eastern live here on c-span, c-span now, and c-span.org. this afternoon, a georgetown university law professor joins other education officials in a discussion on free speech and protests on college campuses, hosted by georgetown university. live coverage starts at 5:30 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span now, and c-span.org. back to the calls for open forum. larry, georgia, good morning. caller: i would like to make a statement to the american people who don't understand what it is to be an american, and about

kamala harris. i have her three or four people coming in saying they don't know how kamala was able to step up to be a presidential candidate. well, let me explain to them how that happened. number one, they say that -- [baby babbling] they say that vice president harris was not voted in, but remember, when we went to the polls to vote for president biden, we had a choice to vote for president harris and president biden. we voted for both. so, the vice president one over -- won those votes along with president. that's number one. number two, the president of the united states, i want to make this statement right-click about the economy, because the economy

was hit by covid. i had my own business. we had all our business shut down. all of my employees, i work for the federal government, all of our employees were laid off because of covid. a lot of them had covid. it was prevalent when biden took the chair. we was not working. trump, why he had to pay out so much money was because we had to pay the money because of the people that didn't have no jobs. then they started economy back under president biden and vice president harris, getting over 8 million votes. that's why she's the nominee and we did vote for her. host: alright. here is john and fort river, new jersey. -- in fort river, new jersey.

caller: good morning. i think it would be a great thing if our elected politicians and the mainstream media would tune in and watch "washington journal," to hear what the country has to say. if anyone deserves a pat on the back on -- in this country, its people who come to work, support their family, pay their taxes. as we know, the country's $35 trillion in debt. what i'm looking for is quite simple, we will spend $1 trillion on infrastructure. that money has to be accountable. that money has to be transparent. you can't have people become millionaires on a government

contract that do not deserve the contract. so, i would also like to mention, i was listening to the gentleman about housing. when we build home, should the green new deal be a part of that? i also have an issue with -- i believe in daca. i believe in legal immigration. the mayor of new york city wants my tax money to go, $12 billion, to support what's going on in new york. the governor of illinois wants $22 billion in tax money. you know, there is a big difference between knowledge and belief. politicians have to start stepping up and telling the truth of the american people.

host: all right, john. a couple of new campaign ads to share with you. there is a new harris ad focusing on the economy and a trump add hitting harris on immigration and social security. here it is. [video clip] >> we know that costs are too high and while corporations are gouging families, trump is a focus on giving companies tax cuts. harris is focused on supporting you. >> building up the middle class will be a defining role of my presidency. >> shall cut down on price gouging and cut costs by enforcing regulations. >> i'm kamala harris and i approved this message. [video clip] >> attention, seniors, kamala harris has promised amnesty for the 10 million illegals that she allowed in as borders are. studies warn that this will lead

to cuts in your social security benefits. president trump opposes amnesty and any cuts to your benefits and will eliminate taxes on social security, because he's on your side. >> i'm donald trump and i approve this message. host: anne is calling us from california, independent. hi. caller: i'm concerned about socialism and communism sneaking in, which seems like it's happening. like in venezuela they had food shortages, starvation, lots of bad things. people can make themselves aware of it. the vice presidential candidate visited china 32 times and that's a communist country, must be some reason he was there 32 times. um...

[no audio] host: ok. edna, chicago, good morning. are you there? caller: hi, how are you today? host: i'm doing great. caller: you look beautiful. my statement is this, i don't know why anybody would want to vote for donald trump. if you vote for donald trump, you have a death wish. i say that because he's trying to kill everything that everybody has enjoyed all their lives in this country. i just pray that people will come to their senses before november 5. another thing i want to say, my heart bleeds for hirsch's mother. when she was on, i almost cried. host: here is sarah in ohio, democrat. caller: yes, hi.

i'm calling in about a replacement. does anyone remember, nixon replaced gerald ford, he replaced him because of agnew as vice president, there was a scandal. he nominated ford to take over. so, there had been a replacement for vice president under the republican party. i looked it up. anybody else want to talk about biden replacing harris and where does she come from? what the policy is? you just need to look it up online. host: all right. let's talk to dave, next, michigan, independent. caller: hey, thanks. if i was a person like harris,

or any president, you want to look out for the people. i'm a senior citizen who has worked all my life. we are getting, like a lot of people said, the bad part of the deal. i'm an owner, i paid cash. if i buy the home, i should be able to take anything it needs for maintenance, in other words, the costs free -- costs freeze -- cost freeze on maintenance. as long as i don't add to it, if i want to maintain the premises until i die, because i chose it as the place of my last stand, if i want to apply for a subsidy , it will be paid for by the government, as long as they

don't add any, strictly maintenance, that will be held onto and paid for by the government. upon my death, it will be added to the price of the home. i think that's fair. i don't know anybody who would have a problem with that that's a senior. there are those of us out there hoping to get it through. this piddly extra money that we are getting, raises and stuff, it don't wash out maintenance and i would like to hear others weigh in on that idea. thanks for "washington journal," have a good day. host: thanks for calling, thanks for today's "washington journal ." we will be back tomorrow morning at 7 a.m. eastern time, as usual. have a great day, everybody. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its

caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2024] ♪ >> here's a look at some of our live coverage today on c-span. at noon, political strategists and scholars will discuss the 2024 presidential election. 2:50 p.m. eastern, vice president kamala harris will hold a campaign event in portsmouth, new hampshire. fi: 30 p.m. eastern, georgetown university looking at free speech and protests on college campuses. at 8:00 eastern jd vance speaks to supporters at a campaign event in mesa, arizona. encore p