>> georgetown university law center professor david cole joins other officials in a discussion on free speech and protest on college campuses, hosted by the free speech project of georgetown university. what live coverage at five -- watch live coverage at 5:30 p.m. eastern. >> attention, middle and high school students across america. it is time to make your voice heard. the 2025 contest is here. this is your chance to create a documentary that can inspire change, raise awareness, and make an impact. your document we should answer this year's question, your message to the president, what issue is most important to you or your community? whether you are passionate about

politics, the environment, or community stories, c-span is your platform to share your message with the world. $100,000 in prizes, including the grand prize of $5,000. this is your opportunity not only to make an impact but also be rewarded for your creativity and hard work. enr your submissions today. scan the code or visit studentcam.org for all the details on how to enter. the deadline is january 20, 2025. ngton journal where we are joined by dennis shea, the executive director at the center for housing policy at the bipartisan housing center. welcome. housing affordability is a big issue for a lot of americans. what are the key factors driving up the cost of housing? guest: we see the housing affordability challenge through three lenses.

the first lens is supplied. there is a mismatch between the demand for housing and available supply. that is the first lens. we need to increase the supply of affordable homes on the rental side and for sale side, particularly starter homes. the second is preservation. we need to preserve the existing stock of affordable homes. we lose a lot of home to obsolescence or they move up to market rate, so we need to really pay attention to the need to preserve the existing stock of affordable housing. the third lens is on the demand side. there are going to be people on the country and families in the country whose incomes will not match their housing cost. so at bpc we do support a number of important demand-side

initiatives, particularly for example the housing choice voucher program with tell -- which helps to .4 billion low income families afford in the private rental market. with that program it is important and needs to be approved to encourage greater landlord participation. just to summarize, see the housing affordability through those three lenses. host: let us drill down a little bit and start with the supply side. how undersupplied is the u.s. housing market? guest: that is a great question. there are various estimates. moody's put out 1.5 million. the national realtors says that we have under built life 5.5 million a few years ago. we can safely say that as a country we have under built housing by millions of homes both rental and for sale over the past 15 years, since the

great recession. host: so why is it and why did that recession sparked under building? guest: when the recession hit, it crushed to the homebuilding industry and we lost a lot of jobs in the homebuilding industry. the residential construction industry and those jobs that remained unfilled in many respects. that has been a big part of it. we have had a major, throughout the country we have a history of restrictive zoning and land-use regulations which limits the types of housing that can be built in certain communities. and these restrictions have definitely kept down supply. when covid hit, it led to a lot of shortages of he homebuilding materials like lumber, steel, and copper wire and the prices got shot up which was reflected

in the housing. and when the fed started tightening and the mortgage rates went up, lock in effect. people who have mortgages at 3% or got in when the mortgage rates were low are sitting there saying i am not going to move. host: they cannot afford to. guest: they cannot afford to pay 6% or 7% to go to another house which has locked-in a lot of inventory. host: you talk about the zoning rules and all of those regulations that are can -- that are restricting supply. why is that? why are there strict zoning laws that make it so hard to build new houses? guest: i think one of the reasons that people have -- that they went into effect was to preserve the character of the neighborhood. so issues like single families home. every lot has to be used for

single-family home. issues like parking minimums. we need to have a lot of parking spaces but in some communities people have realized do not need to have all of these parking minimum requirements that are as stringent. and when you look to put a parking space for a multifamily or apartment it can be extremely expensive especially if it is underground. some people say there is a racial component to this to keep the racial compensation -- composition of their communities the way it is. so, there are a lot of different factors. host: so once you move into a neighborhood you start voting for zoning regulations to keep some people out. guest: for a lot of people the home is their most important asset. and if they fear that the

character of their neighborhood is going to change, that might impact the value of their home. so, i am not one of those people who say these are bad people who restrict or support these restrictive zoning and land use requirements. as a society, a lot of communities are waking up. and this is a bipartisan issue. governors like the republican governor of montana and got -- and utah like democrat -- and democratic states like oregon and california are realizing that we need to loosen up on these regulations on the land use and zoning requirements to allow a greater diversity of housing in communities. host: we are talking to dennis shea on housing affordability. if you would like to join our conversation the numbers are

democrats,1. -- 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. and independents, 202-748-8002. sticking on the supply side vice president harris called for the construction of 3 million new housing units. how would that get done? what that make a difference? guest: let me say that i believe the bipartisan sweet spot on housing affordability is the need to increase supply of homes. i think there is broad agreement among both parties that we really need to increase the supply of homes. so a couple of elements. vice president harris called for 3 million new homes over the next four years. and a couple of the ideas that she has put forward are already pending in congress and enjoy bipartisan support. she calls for the enactment of a tax credit to support the

production and rehabilitation of affordable rental housing. that is a reference to the low income housing tax credit which has been around for 36 years and george mitchell, john danforth, i know your viewers are political people so they know those two names. the republican and democrat that created the program which has led to 3.7 million affordable rental homes over the past 30 some odd years. vice president harris -- there is legislation in congress that would dramatically expand the low income housing tax credit and the federal support for it. and that is broad -- that has broad bipartisan support and over 200 cosponsors in the house, both republicans and democrats. the other thing she is calling for is the neighborhood homes investment act which is modeled after another tax incentive to encourage private developers to

build affordable starter homes for sale in distressed communities. that has broad bipartisan support in congress and those are two ideas. host: that would be a tax incentive? guest: tax incentives to developers to invest their money in affordable rental housing and affordable starter homes for sale. and vice president harris has called for another tax incentive for starter homes on top of that neighborhood homes investment act. host: let us talk to callers. william. houston, texas. democrat. caller: good morning c-span and sir,, hostess and guest. i have a question. i happen to live in an apartment complex that is managed and owned by a bank. and i have to have 3 -- three times the income of my rent.

but when i go apply for a loan from the same bank purchase a home which would be 400 or $500 less than the rent i will be paying for i get denied. but they will give me a new lease. why is it that it works for others? my neighbor is moving next week into one of the same properties i looked at. needless to say we do not look alike when you see us. there are a lot of reasons why that meet the needs to rent at five -- at high ends places but go and try and buy a house. guest: thank you for sharing your situation. that is an issue that for example the regulator for fannie

mae and freddie mac has looked at. how to do credit scoring. and i personally believe that if someone has been paying their rent on time for a significant period of years, that should definitely be counted toward as a positive in your credit score. if you are paying utility bills and the rent on time and doing other things on time, that definitely should be a factor in demonstrating your credit worthiness. that is my personal opinion. host: alex in mountain view, california. independent. good morning. caller: i have a quick comment and then question. the comment is simply in all of the discussions of the housing problems i have never heard of anyone talking about the impact of illegal immigration on the price of housing. over the past decades the cumulative number of people here illegally is approximately 60

million. here's my question. what is the impact of their presence on the price of housing and vacancies? if they simply did not exist or return to their homelands, what would be the decline in pricing and increase in vacancies? if i may, one quick additional question. are you aware of anyone who is actually looking at this problem -- what the impact of illegal immigration is on housing? thank you, that's what i wanted to ask. guest: i am not familiar with any particular study on going now to look at that issue but many people say that it is an issue of supply and demand. if you increase the demand for housing and the supply remains the same, you are going to lead to higher housing costs for folks.

i know senator vance on the campaign trail, or at least in the past, has cited the issue of illegal immigration impacting housing affordability. host: and that one of the policy solutions is the mass deportation of immigrants. do you think that would impact housing? guest: i have not looked at that issue. we are not -- we haven't looked at the issue of housing and immigration. or the issue of mass deportation. i think alex raises an issue, but senator vance on the campaign trail has cited that as a problem. host: republican mine, kyle, truth or consequences new mexico. guest: uh-oh, truth or consequences. [laughter] caller: i know, right? thanks.

airbnb, that's my -- i call you guys sometimes, but airbnb's. can you give a grunt or something to acknowledged the effective airbnb's and short-term rentals on the housing market? i moved to truth or consequences from colorado. i bought a house on my own. i worked my butt off. when i was 28, i bought a house in colorado and i sold it when i was 35. around there. and i moved down here. um, managed to springs, colorado , 2012 or so, past limits on short-term rentals. they are about the same ties -- same sized town. they said only 271,

grandfathered, for short-term rentals. bam. host: so, when you say limits, kyle, limits on the number of properties that can be short-term airbnb's? guest: exactly. and there's got to be a percentage. like, it's not the same everywhere. but short-term rentals truly destroyed towns. they do. they do. you don't have voters. host: let's get a response. go ahead, dennis. guest: full disclosure, i'm on the affordable housing advisory council for airbnb. they put together a people -- a group of people in the housing community to inform them on housing policy. let me just full disclosure, i'm a member of that committee. the argument, airbnb rentals have helped improve

affordability for many people who rent their home out during times when they are not there and it has helped people to meet their mortgage or meet their rental payment. so, there is a lot of evidence to suggest that that dynamic has helped people with housing affordability. i'm about to start reading some materials about new york city. they limited airbnb rentals to see what the, what the impact on housing supply and housing affordability might be. host: and what do you think about limiting corporations, large corporations, from buying up a lot of rental property? what are your thoughts on that? guest: you know, i think we need more private investment. a lot of those homes being purchased may not have been on the market, but for the investment being made, may have needed rehabilitation. i don't see them as being a dominant force in the rental

market at all. host: ida, new britain, connecticut. democrat, good morning. caller: hello. my name is ida. hi. i don't quite understand the difference or -- let's put it this way, if people are going to be allowed to rent apartments and the government is going to control certain parts of that by saying how long or whatever, the short-term business is, whatever the problems are, if the government is going to get into it and the landlord has to rent to somebody, there is -- there is always a problem when, say, the tenant doesn't live up to his deal or the landlord doesn't live up to their deal and they

just leave the place and it's a horror. you do have awful landlords, right? and you do have horrible tenants at times. the problem, for me, is if you are going to take a chance and rent your house out or part of your house out to somebody, you ought to be able to put them out pretty fast if they don't -- not only don't just pay the rent, the worst part, but if they, if they, if they don't, they don't live properly, doing drugs in the house or anything. you have a problem getting people out of your house. end the government has, they don't have section eight to get people in, but they don't make it easy for landlords to get them out if something is wrong. housing is very, very difficult problem. i don't blame any government

agencies. i don't blame landlords. i don't blame tenants. but there is that constant battle between the landlord and the tenant and when you are talking about renting housing, this has nothing to do with buying housing. that's another problem that we will leave for another day. host: all right. guest: it's a very interesting discussion and commentary on the tension between landlord and tenant rights and responsibilities. it is an ongoing debate during pandemic. many states, there was a federal eviction moratorium. many states had similar measures . there were also emergency rental assistance for tenants. you know, that was during a time of emergency and crisis. i will say, just since we are in

the political season, president biden proposed federal rent control statutes, put forward federal rent control ideas that would apply to sort of larger landlords capping rents at 5% over the next couple of years. if the landlord refused to cap the rent, he would not or she would not benefit from certain tax depreciation benefits. that has created a lot of controversy between those who think rent control is a good thing and those who think it is a disincentive for creating more supply of rental housing. host: what do you think? guest: i personally don't think it is a good thing. at the center we haven't taken a position on it, but on our website we have a lot of the arguments on both sides of it. as a general matter, i don't

think rent control is a good thing. host: let's talk to dane in tennessee, good morning. caller: our hedge fund managers buying large quantities of property in big cities, certain areas, and once they reach a certain point, they control the rent price, the price of rent? we heard that in nashville when the rent a year ago went up to $2600 for a small two bedroom apartment. host: hedge funds. guest: i don't know the particular situation in nashville. there are other types of private investment in both homes for sale and single-family rentals and apartment buildings. apartment buildings. i will say that since this is a

political, we are in political season, vice president harris has put forward a proposal that would it would allow the use of algorithms by landlords to set rents. we have not taken a position that -- on that at the terwilliger center, but this issue is on the minds of many. host: another harris policy initiative is 25 thousand dollars for first-time homebuyers. what do you think of that? will that boost demand? guest: well, this is an area where there is not a lot of bipartisanship. republicans will say that if you write a check for 25 thousand dollars, if you provide that assistance, it's just going to increase demand and to be priced into the costs of a home. it's not going to, without a

increase in housing supply, you are just going to cause home prices to increase. host: illinois, independent mine , stephen, you are next. caller: yeah, i moved into a house on the west side of chicago. all the rent, there were about 35 vacant lots within two or three blocks where i purchased this home. alderman bennett basically blocked the building of the new construction, houses, which would have increased the price of housing, my house. would have created new homes. he blocked it because there was

a black-owned contractor to build these houses or apartments. i see it going on again, where i saw him on tv last week, about this gambling, casino, with construction workers from the cabrini green projects. there will never be another house built or produced ever again, or built with such magnitude. host: dennis shea, any comment there? guest: i don't. it's a very local issue. host: virginia, independent, good morning. caller: i first of all want to

correct your host about what he said previously, that [indiscernible] are helping. it's not true. people with primary residences, they don't do airbnb on primary residences. they purchase other properties and use it for airbnb. that's one thing. and it's not about supply and demand. in fact, we have millions and millions of vacant properties. it's when government starts lowering interest rates, a lot of people start buying up these properties low interest rate, they don't want to sell it, they are doing it, renting it out as airbnb's. we should come up with different taxation codes. we can control that. today i can't move to an area, i can't afford anything.

the only option i have is rent and rent has gone up pretty much a lot. we also have foreign companies buying up a lot of properties. i know you tried to dodge that to say that you don't have any knowledge about that, saying it's not true, but foreign companies are buying land and properties and squeezing citizens from being able to buy anything. host: we'll get a response but i wanted to make sure you saw this, realtor.com, it's about housing supply. this is the data that they are giving from 2012. up to 2000 23. you and see the number of homes here going down and this is the gap between the home and supply. you can take a look at that at realtor.com. go ahead, dennis shea guest:. guest:with chris --dennis shea. guest: with respect to the under

building issue, freddie mac, the realtors, 25 million under built. moody's, 1.5 million under built . there have been multiple economic studies that say we have simply under built housing on both the rental and homeownership side by millions of homes. insufficient to meet the demand as households are forming. so, i will just leave it at that. with respect to airbnb, you are right. there are people who have bought multiple homes to rent out as airbnb rentals, but there are also people who have used their own home that they live in and have rented it out as an airbnb. host: here's christian, new haven, connecticut, democrat. caller: thanks for taking my call. i want to point out that people have no idea how expensive it is to own a home.

i think if you look at the mortgages as a big expense, but actually the biggest expense that has been going up, at least in this part of the country over the last 10 years, some of my biggest expenses, and i'm a landlord, are the property taxes have gone up at least roughly between 50% and 100% over the last 10 years. insurance, homeowners insurance has gone up 50% to 100% over the last 10 years. water, sewer, 50% to 100% over the last 10 years. electric, up 50% to 100% over the last 10 years. you are talking about a 3000 square-foot house, you have got to put a roof on that thing. going to class to $25,000. painting that thing will cause to $25,000.

permitting for the most simple things is complex and expensive. the mortgage is actually the least of my expenses. fortunately, i don't have mortgages anymore. but if you want to talk about the price of owning a home, the biggest reason people cancel their deals is when they get into the closing and they start adding up all these costs, it just folds. they don't have the money for the insurance. they didn't calculate the property taxes right. the property taxes, by far, are going to be your most, your biggest expense when owning a home. guest: all right. great point, christian. owning a home can be very expensive, i think you made some great points. with rising home prices, you have rising property taxes as

the home values get reassessed and taxes are then levied against the upwardly revised home price. that really negatively impacts particularly older americans who are on fixed incomes and may have paid off their mortgage and are sitting at home and property taxes have gone significantly up. another issue that christian raised that is a good point is the rising home owners insurance over the past couple of years. we have seen the costs of homeowners insurance in many states, particularly those impacted by weather events, really skyrocket. it's becoming a major piece of the puzzle of the housing affordability problems, dealing with, dealing with that, finding solutions. alabama, for example, they fortified groups in their homes. that seems to be a possible

solution. i know that we are at the center looking at possible bipartisan federal responses to how to mitigate rising property insurance costs and its impact on housing affordability. host: this one comes from x, "i'm not clear how the $25,000 will be allocated. is it a credit at closing? a tax credit to reduce the property taxes? what are the details of this benefit? guest: i understand it to be limited to first-time homebuyers with a $25,000 grant. that is how i understand it. host: here's wanda from chattanooga, tennessee, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. my first question is -- is there

a correlation between osha and mold in the home? my second question is -- what are some of the -- what are some of the processes with renting to own with section eight? host: what was a question on section eight? caller: sorry, i was wondering, what are the policies around renting to own for section eight? guest: rent to own. osha, i believe, those regulations apply to work areas where there is employment and workforce, i believe. i might be wrong on that. rent to own i believe on section eight, only certain public housing authorities. section eight is a program for the viewers that provides a rental subsidy that covers 30%

of low income household income contribution to the rent. the difference between that and the fair market rent, section eight covers the difference. it helps 2.4 million households annually. i believe there's a lot of variation. section eight is run by local public housing authorities. i know that some have rent to own programs, but i don't know, i don't know which ones those are and i don't think it is really a highly prevalent program. host: jay sanders sent us this on x. "you study housing, you must know about senator harris's renter release act. tell viewers how you think that bill would have worked." guest: i'm not familiar with senator harris' 2018 renter

really fact, sorry about that. -- release -- relief act, sorry about that. host: miriam, turn down your tv. caller: yes, what happens when a woman ends up alone in her retirement and you don't have a home anymore, so you rent a place and the rent stays the same forever, and then somebody comes in and buys all these places, then they raise your rent? in four years my rent has been raised three times. this will be the fourth year and they have raised it three times. when you are on a fixed income, you cannot afford that. they just buy up all these places and raise your rent. host: we've got some information

on you -- for you on the rental relief act. the harris rental relief act, reintroduced in april of 2018, would create a monthly refundablet for households whose housing costs exceed 30% of their income, the goal being to help low income people across the country afford rent. supporters included the national low income housing coalition, national allow -- alliance to end homelessness, the fair alliance of the carolinas, apply to anyone making $100,000 or less. guest: this is a renter tax credit. this is an idea that has been put forward by various advocacy groups over the past 10 years in washington, d.c. it hasn't gotten traction, but you know, with rent going up, so many americans struggling with high housing costs, the idea of

a renter tax credit could have some political legs. host: here's robert in miami, florida, independent. caller: good morning. one correlation not being discussed is the biden harris immigration policy and how it is going to affect housing affordability. i'm using low numbers, but assuming there were 8 million undocumented people in our country illegally, how will that exacerbate housing affordability? where will these people end up? it's a terrible policy. the government, at least the biden harris administration, has let americans down. what are your thoughts? host: we actually talked about this, robert. anything you want to add? guest: no. laws of supply and demand still apply and if there is more demand for housing and the supply of housing has not gone up, housing costs are going to go up. again, senator vance has

mentioned this issue in the past and i believe recently on the campaign trail. guest: linda, him -- host: linda, missouri, good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i don't know why everything always goes back to immigration. i don't understand how a homeowner doesn't have any recourse when these people come into your neighborhood, buy up homes, fix them up, sell them for way more than what your home is probably worth, but you are stuck with the same tax increase and we don't have a recourse. i don't understand that. some of those who come in and do that, i can't even, i wouldn't even qualify for that loan, so how can they put that on my home? i don't have it, other than the construction on my property. i did everything it was since i've been here. i don't understand. it's totally unfair. you can ride by, you don't need

to come in. you can ride by and increase my taxes on my home because someone bought a house for a lower amount and fixed it up and sold it for two or three times more. host: any comments on that? guest: i don't know the color's personal situation. sometimes homes need to be rehabilitated, improved. you know, it sounds like it might be impacting her property taxes, which i can understand would be, if you are on a fixed income, would be a problem. host: cindy, sara hughes, good morning. -- syracuse, good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. you haven't talked about senior homes. rentals. i wanted to talk about landlords raising your rent. i moved in in august of 2020.

it's august 24. i started at 1175 and it has gone up to 1835. that's over $600 in three years. almost four years. host: what up -- guest: well, i think this says we need to increase the supply of affordable rental housing. it's particularly important for seniors. there's not enough rental housing that is connected to supportive services. we have done a lot of work on the connection between housing and aging with our task force called the senior health and housing task force, with luminaries in the housing world, we came up with that report six or seven years ago, a series of recommendations.

looking at the demographics in the united states, perhaps the largest growing segment of the population is the 65 and older segment. many people in that age group want to age in place. they want to stay in their own homes, their own communities, aging in place. unfortunately, many of our homes in our communities, they are ill-equipped. physically, in the home, doesn't have the characteristics allowing for safe homes. i know that with my mother. she aged in place in the home that we grew up in. she passed away there. probably not the best place for her to live. but she wanted to stay there. people want to stay in their own communities. they know the grocery store, they know the post office, they don't want to move. we also need to get more senior housing connected to support services as well. host: is there any legislation

right now in congress that is bipartisan that could pass that would actually impact housing supply and the cast -- costs of housing? guest: i think if you pass the affordable housing credit improvement act, the expansion of the low income housing tax credit, that has strong bipartisan support. people estimate that will lead to 2 million affordable new rental homes over the next 10 years. then we should pass the neighborhood homes investment act, creating a tax incentive to stimulate the production of starter homes for sale. that has been estimated to create about 500,000 homes over the next 10 years. those two, those two steps would be really important. they both have bipartisan support. next year, the tax cuts and jobs act will expire, the 2017 tax bill.

there will be a lot of consideration of tax policy next year. i know people who support, advocates, affordable housing advocates like myself, we are hoping those provisions get -- and maybe other things, that they get put into the tax bill in 2025. host: code, you can vote there. we will be showing you those results throughout the week. we will go to robert in hollywood, maryland, independent line. caller: good morning, how you doing? host: good. caller: i don't know where to start. your previous caller had a lot of useful information, thank you for having him on. you had someone last week, calling in about income and the way to finance the social situation of this country. you know, the costs of everything is going up through the roof.

i don't understand where it is coming from. you've got to think about it also, the raising of the minimum wage benefits the people making minimum wage, but the costs trickles down through the economy. therefore i'm looking at a six dollar pay cut per hour because i'm not being compensated for out of pocket items. there's something to think about right there. host: all right, robert. let's talk to aiden in ellicott city, maryland. caller: i wanted to speak about immigration as well. i think a lot of the collars on this network treat immigrants purely as consumers, purely as taking resources from the community, homes from the community, but they are people, you know? people who come from another country. when you look at population growth, they come from mothers, 18 years, they grow up just the

same. yes, they take jobs and the jobs they use to pay for consumption, making new jobs. look at the economic effect of immigration on employment, it's close to zero. immigrants can work housing and construction jobs. the problem in so many of these markets is that we are not meeting supply. the problem isn't that we are adding more people to the economy. if that was true, population growth would be horrible from the -- for the economy. but it's not. these are all real people participating in human life. host: here's charles in west covina, republican mine. caller: housing. i try, i'm a small developer, it is almost impossible. i have homes i would love to build for people. small condos. but you can't get them through the city council.

we had them installed, i almost gave up in west covina. i can't get anything through. i had 21 of them that i would love to build. so, when they talk about housing, we try we try to build housing for people, affordable housing that they can afford, young people, to start out, but to get it through the city council, it's endless. it takes three years to four years and that's if we get it approved. host: why is that? do they give you a reason as to why they turn you down? caller: the people with the homes around them, they are the older type homes spread out in large lots and they don't want two-story condos. well, that's fine. that's fine in the 50's and 60's, but not in today's market. there is no market for a full

home on a full-sized lot unless you are extremely wealthy. we cannot supply those homes or people starting out, young people or older people that just want a home. they go to the council. they protest. they are voted in by these people and are turned down. it takes about $70,000 to get a, to get any type of small condominium complex in front of the council after you have purchased the property. and property is very expensive. you have to go through many, many loopholes with the city, the county, and the state. those things are understandable. they don't want bad housing built, they want the sewerage, the water, make sure the land -- but you do all this and they turn it down. how can you build homes?

in my city there are many large lots that were agriculture at one time that are just vacant. and of course, i would like to build some homes on it for young people. but i have to do what the market says they can sell and that's two-story condominiums. that's what people by today. they don't buy homes with large yards and nice driveways, you know? so. host: all right, charles, thanks for sharing that with us. angela, democratic line, maryland. caller: yes, i also wanted to talk about the immigration numbers, i hear so many false numbers. i was watching representative crenshaw a couple of weeks ago on bill mark. he says that in four years there were 8 million encounters and 2 million peoples let into the

country to seek asylum. 2 million. i looked up the numbers myself. i believe i went to the government site, dhs. 2 million asylum-seekers in two years. that was apparently too much and biden issued an executive order and the number has now dropped to what it was during covid. that was under title 42. i think we have a good handle now on the immigration. the problem is, even if you look at the trump adds he says there are 10 million illegals under kamala harris. i'm thinking, yeah, there are between 10 and 20 million illegals in this country. there were 10 million illegals under trump. they have been here since reagan did his last amnesty. the facts are that biden in four years only released 2 million in the country and the senate border bill, they misrepresent that.

they said that once 5000 are let in? no. 5000 encounters. you don't have to let a single one of those encounters in. i hope that kamala harris draws out trump over these lies on the immigration numbers. i will take 10,000, 20,000, $30,000 a year of asylum-seekers over wannabe dictators trying to use mishap militias. i will take the asylum-seekers over that any day. thank you so much, c-span. host: arkansas, democratic life, dashed line, richard. caller: two things to talk about, quickly. the palestinians and the protests going on in israel. i don't know what the protesters want. do they want to go in there and

sing songs to get them back? i don't understand. netanyahu is doing what he can. if i were netanyahu, i would backup my forces to the safe zone, open the gates, and tell the protesters if you can do it better, you go get them. see how that works out. point number two, the democratic party, i don't know what is going on with this country. they pulled off a modern-day ides of march. they appointed someone in there that isn't even elected, she was appointed. what does it take for people to understand that? how did that work for rome? think about it. show me the word democracy in the constitution. anybody. thank you. host: arthur, springfield, virginia, independent line, good morning. caller: early in life, i was a

republican, i voted republican. i did change over to be a democrat. in the same sense, i'm fiscally conservative but socially liberal with policies. so, there's hardly a place within these parties to find a comfortable seat. but i just recently watched on youtube a little segment on rodeo drive where they ask how much money people made. lots of millionaires, what do you do, you know? they asked who they would vote for. out of the seven or eight that they did, seven said trump. basically because they were very wealthy. in my younger days, i had the same idea, you want a country run by a ceo with business

acumen. then we got trump. our country is not a company. it's not about the almighty dollar. it's about politics, taking care of the needy, and seeing where people can be held accountable and responsible. one person in the segment talked about regulations and how, you know, trump let all the regulations go and you know, democrats want to come back in and have it. not one time where they asked about the pfizer crisis -- about the housing crisis of 2008 and who was held accountable for that. who went to jail. it's just disheartening. i want the people listening, we need to put the true politicians -- i do believe kamala harris will fight not only for the middle class people, but she will take care of the needs of the country. i'm all about, like the last caller said, i hope people will wake up and we will have a good

election, a good quality election and a decent transition and continue our country in the progress we are going. thank you very much. host: here's any in saint johnsbury, vermont. -- emmy in st. john's berry, vermont. caller: i wish you would have someone on to discuss the 12th amendment, the electoral college ties. it's not from the civil war or anything. it was ratified in 18 oh four. meaning it was definitely put in by the founders of the constitution. the reason why i trump's call in 2022 georgia was just trying to get an exact number that they lost by, he was trying to get the electrical college tie.

that's because they knew that once you are on the electrical college -- electoral college tie , he doesn't go to courts or lawyers or anything, it goes directly to congress and of the special qualification for the amendment is that each state only gets one. it has to be said by congress, each state only gets 1.1 vote. so, rhode island gets a vote, california gets a vote. when this is done, the democrats and republicans know that there are more red states than blue states. so, the red states automatically win in the case of an electoral tie. this was the plan a. plan b was january 6. after they spoke with that man in georgia who saved us from giving them those votes, that right there, trump would have

won his second and not needed january 6. please put someone on who can explain this about the 12th amendment. it's very important that we find this out before we get to the election because trump is planning to do it again. host: thanks. this story, "kamala harris speaking in northampton at a brewery to help small business plans in new hampshire." it says, "the vice president is scheduled to speak to supporters at a campaign, campaign officials have just confirmed, bringing her campaign to new hampshire for the first time. " we will have coverage of that today at 2:50 p.m. eastern time here on c-span. also on c-span now and c-span.org. elliott, south carolina, republican. caller: hello, my name is

elliot. i live in beaufort, south carolina. i believe that the three democrats you had before me are wrong. one of the things i would like to bring up to the people is that replacement theory, the progressive theory, it's the replacement theory of the citizens of the united states to be replaced by noncitizens. the other thing i would like to bring up is something called unrealized capital gains. the progressive would like you to pay on your amount of money that you have, let's say your 401(k) or ira, a special tax if it goes up. they want to charge you 20% of money that you never pulled out. thank you so much. host: here's "the arizona

central," "jd vance returns to mesa church." we will have live coverage of that starting at 8 p.m. eastern read here on c-span, c-span now, and c-span.org. a few other things for your schedule today. the american enterprise institute hosts a panel discussion in the final weeks before the 2024 presidential election, including amy walters, the editor-in-chief of the cook political report. that discussion starts at noon eastern live here on c-span, c-span now, and c-span.org. this afternoon, a georgetown university law professor joins other education officials in a discussion on free speech and protests on college campuses, hosted by georgetown university. live coverage starts at 5:30

p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span now, and c-span.org. back to the calls for open forum. larry, georgia, good morning. caller: i would like to make a statement to the american people who don't understand what it is to be an american, and about kamala harris. i have her three or four people coming in saying they don't know how kamala was able to step up to be a presidential candidate. well, let me explain to them how that happened. number one, they say that -- [baby babbling] they say that vice president harris was not voted in, but remember, when we went to the polls to vote for president biden, we had a choice to vote for president harris and president biden. we voted for both. so, the vice president one over

-- won those votes along with president. that's number one. number two, the president of the united states, i want to make this statement right-click about the economy, because the economy was hit by covid. i had my own business. we had all our business shut down. all of my employees, i work for the federal government, all of our employees were laid off because of covid. a lot of them had covid. it was prevalent when biden took the chair. we was not working. trump, why he had to pay out so much money was because we had to pay the money because of the people that didn't have no jobs. then they started bringing the economy back under president

biden and vice president harris, getting over 8 million votes. that's why she's the nominee and we did vote for her. host: alright. here is john and fort river, new jersey. -- in fort river, new jersey. caller: good morning. i think it would be a great thing if our elected politicians and the mainstream media would tune in and watch "washington journal," to hear what the country has to say. if anyone deserves a pat on the back on -- in this country, its people who come to work, support their family, pay their taxes. as we know, the country's $35 trillion in debt.

what i'm looking for is quite simple, we will spend $1 trillion on infrastructure. that money has to be accountable. that money has to be transparent. you can't have people become millionaires on a government contract that do not deserve the contract. so, i would also like to mention, i was listening to the gentleman about housing. when we build home, should the green new deal be a part of that? i also have an issue with -- i believe in daca. i believe in legal immigration. the mayor of new york city wants my tax money to go, $12 billion, to support what's going on in

new york. the governor of illinois wants $22 billion in tax money. you know, there is a big difference between knowledge and belief. politicians have to start stepping up and telling the truth of the american people. host: all right, john. a couple of new campaign ads to share with you. there is a new harris ad focusing on the economy and a trump add hitting harris on immigration and social security. here it is. [video clip] >> we know that costs are too high and while corporations are gouging families, trump is a focus on giving companies tax cuts. harris is focused on supporting you. >> building up the middle class will be a defining role of my presidency. >> shall cut down on price gouging and cut costs by enforcing regulations.

>> i'm kamala harris and i approved this message. [video clip] >> attention, seniors, kamala harris has promised amnesty for the 10 million illegals that she allowed in as borders are. studies warn that this will lead to cuts in your social security benefits. president trump opposes amnesty and any cuts to your benefits and will eliminate taxes on social security, because he's on your side. >> i'm donald trump and i approve this message. host: anne is calling us from california, independent. hi. caller: i'm concerned about socialism and communism sneaking in, which seems like it's happening. like in venezuela they had food shortages, starvation, lots of