contest. the democratic republican party of the federalist party in a race that ultimately decided by the u.s. house of reprentives. watch historic presidentia election saturday at 7:00 p.m. eastern on american history tv on c-span2. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these television companies and more. including wow. >> the world has changed. today the fast reliable internet connection is something no one can live without so wow is there for customers, with speed, reliability, value and choice. now more than ever it starts with great internet. >> wow supports c-span as a public service along with these other television providers giving you a front row seat to democracy. continues. host: diane yentel is the president and c.e.o. of the

national low-income housing coalition here to talk about rental housing access and affordability. let's begin with low income. how do you define that? guest: low income is defined by the u.s. department of housing and urban development. and they define a low income person as somebody who is at 80% or below the area's median income. at the coalition we focus on housing affordability for people who are extremely low income. that's defined by people who are at or below 30% of the area's median income. it's for those people who are at that extremely low incomes where the greatest housing affordability challenges lie. host: "new york times" recent headline, more renters than ever before are burdened by the rent they pay. a neujahr srard report says 22.4 million households in the united

states now spend more than 30% of their income in rent with 12.1 million spending more than 50%. tell us more. guest: that's right. the housing affordability crisis has really reached new levels in our country where over half of all renters can't afford their rent. they are paying more than they should to be able to keep a roof over their heads. while the challenges are facing more and more people in our country, the challenges for people with the lowest incomes, unfortunately, have been much more long-standing and pervasive. we have -- nationally we have a shortage of 7.2 million homes, affordable and available, for people with the lowest incomes. another way of saying that same number is for every 10 of the lowest income households, there are fewer than four apartments

that are affordable and available to them. while the shortage -- the severity of the shortage ranges from most severe to least severe throughout the country, there is no place, there is no state, there is no metro area, there is virtually no community where apartments are affordable to people with the lowest incomes. highest median rentalk at some prices in the country. hawaii is the highest with $1,868. california follows that, d.c., maryland, and massachusetts. take a look at the median rental prices by state in the united states, the lowt, kentucky tops that list, mississippi, southakota, arkansas, and west virginia. these are the lowest by state median rental prices across the country. what is your reaction to those

numbers, diane yentel? guest: one of the things we saw after the pandemic when there were tremendous protections and resources provided and put in place to help renters stay stably housed and pay the rent, once those protections expired and those resources were depleted, we saw skyrocketing, historic increases in rents across the country where there were communities that were rents were increased by as high as 20%, 30% increases in rents. this created a tremendous squeeze on the budgets for people with the lowest incomes. we have seen over the last year and a half a leveling off of those rents. in some cases even a slight decline in some communities. overall the rents remain still far above where they were prior

to the pandemic. in those places where the rental costs on average or median are lower the ones that you shared just now, those are the places that tend to also have lower wages. so the challenges of affordability remain in those communities as well. one of the ways that we at the national income housing coalition look at rental costs is we create what we call the housing wage. that's how much somebody needs to earn in an hour just to be able to afford a modest one or two bedroom apartment. nationally the housing wage for a two bedroom apartment is $32 an hour. and the housing wage for one bedroom apartment is $27 an hour. again that really ranges throughout the conthink. it can go much higher or a little bit lower. but across the board for low-income workers or for people

with disabilities, seniors on limited fixed incomes, the rents are far out of reach for what they can pay. host: what are those folks making? you just said what they need to make, but what are they making? guest: 14 out of 20 of the most common occupations in our country pay median wages that are less than what somebody needs to afford to rent a one bedroom apartment. there are about 64 million people, or 42% of our country's workforce that work in those jobs. so they are getting paid wages less than what it costs to afford a one bedroom apartment. that's why we are seeing more and more people having to pay 40%, 50%, 60% of their limited income just to keep a roof over their heads or having to make really difficult tradeoffs in

their budgets, questions whether they can fill up the tank for their car to get to work, or whether they can pay the rent, or whether they can buy that medication they need, or whether they can pay the rent. these challenges are persisting and increasing for many of the lowest income people. host: you said supply is one reason for this situation. what is the solution? guest: supply is one piece of it. we do have to build and preserve affordable housing, especially throughout the country, but there are many communities where we need to build more rental units at various income levels to meet the demand. supply's certainly a piece of it. as we are building more apartments, we need to make sure that a good percentage of those are affordable to people with the lowest incomes. there are a number of programs available that could allow us to do that if they were fully funded. there is also the reality that

in some communities there is a sufficient supply of apartments, but the people who are living in them can't afford them. we need to bridge that gap between what people earn and what the rent costs. we do that through rental assistance. rental assistance can take the form of more traditional section 8 housing choice vouchers, or it could be a newer kind of program that could be implemented by congress like a renters tax credit. something to help people bridge that gap between what they are earning and what rent costs. those are the two primary solutions to the housing affordability prices. but at the same time there is a tremendous power imbalance in our housing market that tilts heavily in favor of landlords at the expense of renters. especially renters with the lowest incomes, people of color, some of the most marginalized people in our country. we need really robust and

enforced tenant protections throughout the country. the messenger: -- host: what about rent control? guest: that's been more of a topic of conversation recently. it's reached presidential campaigns. i think certainly in places likr where we see these rent increases, we saw after the pandemic of 25%, 30%, 35% rent increases that cannot be justified in terms of any costs that the landlord is holding. those rent increases happen simply because the market will allow for landlords to raise rents as high as the market will allow without any consideration of its impact on tenants. reasonable rent stabilization, preventing obvious rent gouging, is an important tool in the toolbox that more and more communities are putting in place

with positive effect. host: to mary in new york, a renter, marry. mary. caller: yes. concerning the difficult situation with people having to pay rent and it's too much and the availability, i would just urge everybody to vote forker president trump because he knew how to run the economy. it was better for everybody. and the economy now is just stretching and hurting too many americans. host: let's ask our guest. diane yentel, during the first trump administration what did they do on low-income housing? guest: sure. what president trump was in office, he continuously proposed

major cuts to programs that make housing affordable to people with the lowest incomes. in some cases he proposed eliminating crucial programs all together. congress on a bipartisan basis rejected those proposals several times. but he regularly proposed eliminating or cutting those key programs. he also proposed evicting certain tenants from public housing which would have certainly exacerbated the housing crisis for those individuals, for communities, for the whole country. he had a mixed record on local zoning. at times he proposed and put in place some white house counsels to look at what are the local zoning challenges that inhibit the supply of housing, and

especially affordable housing. but at the same time he would often talk about the importance of these harmful local zoning laws that didn't allow for apartments to be built. he also, though, was the president who put in place a moratorium on evictions during the pandemic and that was a really crucial protection that kept many people who otherwise would have been -- would have lost their homes during the pandemic. stably housed during it. he had a mixed record. did he have that -- he did have that very positive policy he put in place. at the same time he put forward even more harmful proposals that would have, if enacted, greatly exacerbated the housing crisis. host: diane yentel, does the national income housing coalition endorse candidates? guest: no.

we do not. we are strictly nonpartisan. host: do you take any role in political campaigns? guest: we do not. host: who funds your organization? guest: we are funded by foundations. we actually have a policy where we don't request or receive any funds from government entities. we are entirely funded by foundations and donations from individuals. host: marion in grove town, georgia. hi. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have been reading a lot and seeing lots of videos about what's happening in florida where desantis has put in that rule that because of the collapse of the building that they now have to all -- condo owners and all the buildings have to get assessed and fix their buildings. it can be millions and millions of dollars. and that is actually making the people that own those sell them.

and then it's going to be, i guess, what's going to happen then developers will come in, swoop in, take it over, and put up rents. it sounds to me like there is a problem with these big wealthy, i guess -- coming in and taking away homes from people that own them and making them into rentals. almost like what's going to become -- where nobody owns their homes anymore the way it's happening in florida. it sounds really scary what's going on in florida for those poor homeowners that are going to actually end up leaving their place and not having any -- in other words, they can't really sell their homes. they owe more for the having to fix their condo or assessment than the condo's even worth. can you talk about that?

guest: you raise a lot of really important issues that are happening throughout the country in your question. first and foremost it's essential that we ensure that apartment buildings, any multifamily housing, are safe for the people who live within it. so some level of regulation and ensuring the safety and soundness of those apartment buildings in florida, especially after the tragedy that happened several years ago, is very important. it comes with costs. the issue that's also coming up in florida and in all coastal communities and increasingly even beyond the coastal communities is insurance rates are also rising really skyrocketing in some communities. in part because of increased disasters whether man-made like the one that happened in florida or natural disasters are occurring more regularly and with greater severity.

but we are also seeing in someplaces where there aren't these natural disasters, insurance costs are going up very significantly for multifamily housing. and that is having a -- creating a tremendous challenge, especially for affordable housing developers and owners who by design don't want to and can't raise rents to offset the costs of those increased insurance costs but still have a bottom line they have to make. and we are seeing developers and owners of housing that -- apartments that house the lowest income people permanently, supportive housing for people who were formerly homeless who are very challenged in keeping their bottom line on those units. and are considering not developing more even where it's most needed.

this is really becoming an existential crisis in the multifamily housing industry. many people are discussing what those solutions might look like. whether there could be a federal intervention, state and local inventions, public-private partnerships. something has to shift if we are going to ensure that we even preserve the affordable housing that we have and if we are able to build more housing that we need. you also raised the issue of corporations for major investors purchasing properties. the impact that that can have. that's also a challenge and it adds to the affordable housing crisis throughout our country. overall there is a low percentage of wall street investors who have purchased and owned properties, but in some communities the percentage is quite high.

like in places in nevada and other states, florida as well has a high level of institutional investors. and one thing that the data and evidence have made very clear is that those institutional investors often tend to be among the worst actors when it comes to landlords. so they have been found to be it serial eviction filedders as a profit making strategy. they have been found to add what are known as junk fees, increased costs for regular day-to-day living that they add to the rent costs that exacerbate the affordability challenges. so there is -- there are also efforts and some bipartisan efforts in congress to limit the ability for institutional investors to continue purchasing properties in communities. but it also goes back to the

importance of tenant protections. the reason why corporate landlords are able to put in place these harmful practices is because in many places there are very few protections for tenants. we need to do multiple things at the same time to address all of the challenges within the housing market and the housing crisis. host: diane yentel is our guest, president and c.e.o. of the national low-income housing coalition. we have divided the lines by renters and all others this morning. if you rent, 202-748-8000. all others can dial in at 202-748-8001. you can text us at 202-748-8003, including your first name, city, and state. tim is first. caller: good morning, ladies.

given the fact in the last eight years we probably put close to $14 trillion into the whole area of the united states from donald trump and joe biden without just giving out money for the p.p.p. loans. we have people from chicago come out and they bought -- they paid for their houses scot-free from the p.p.p. loans that they got because they owned a business. so that made our housing around here go up astronomically. host: tim, what's the impact of inflation? guest: one of the driving forces within increased inflation has been the increased cost of housing. when you break down what was

causing increased and high inflation rates, much of it related to the high cost of housing. that was one reason why we and others were really pushing the administration and congress to do all it could to lower housing costs to also bring down inflation. but the fact of the matter was, again, as i mentioned earlier, after the pandemic where we did have really significant resources provided by federal, state, and local governments to help people maintain their housing and jobs during the pandemic, p.p.p. loans were one important resource that saved a lot of jobs during the pandemic. there was also $46 billion in emergency rental assistance. there was the federal eviction moratorium. once all those resources were spent and those protections

expired, renters re-entered a really brutal housing market because rents were skyrocketing and inflation increased as well in large part because of those skyrocketing rents, but costs across the board had increased. so those tenants were facing not only 20% or 30% increase in rent, but they were also paying more at the gas station. they were paying more at the grocery store. and all of it was really squeezing those lowest income renters. that's why we started to see those eviction filing rates significantly increase and it's why a little while later we saw homelessness increasing to its highest level throughout the country. it's because of that increased inflation, those skyrocketing rents, and those limiting resources and protections available to keep renters stably housed. host: alexandria virginia, tina,

a renter. caller: good morning, greta. i was wondering how come you guys haven't brought up the recent lawsuit from attorney general merrick garland against real page. it's one word. realpage. it's just been in the last week i think. because he has a lawsuit against them because they have this algorithm where they make alt landlords in a given area charge the same rent. so there is no competition. and i think that's racketeering or something that merrick garland said that they are going to make -- change their ways and the algorithm they use is no longer going to be able to be used. and that will give some relief to people who have to rent.

i have been in my apartment since 2007. so i don't pay utilities. however, on my rental report tool where i pay my rent, they keep showing me the utility that i owe. and they won't give me anything in writing saying i don't pay utilities. it's like up to $4,400. this company only been here since may. this property manager been here since may and the utility they are running up on me and they not holding me to it. it's like $4,400. host: ok. we'll take your comments. guest: it's a great point. the realpage -- lawsuit against realpage is one we are certainly watching very carefully. there was a hearing about a year and a half ago that i testified at in the senate before the judiciary committee that was looking at this issue. these allegations of rent

gouging and rent setting through algorithms as you say. it may be one of the reasons why we saw those skyrocketing rents after the pandemic. those increased rents that could not be justified through the increased costs. one reason why rents were skyrocketing to that level may have been this algorithm being made available to large landlords. we'll have to see how that lawsuit plays out. but we are certainly watching that very carefully. one of the things that we discussed in the hearing and you raise here as well is other fees, often called junk fees, that landlords, especially larger corporate landlords, can add to the cost of rent that really add up and make it difficult for tenants to afford to stay in their apartments.

and one of the tenant protections that we could put in place is simply ensuring that tenants have full transparency into what are the costs that -- what are the fees that they are being charged, and to have some level to be able to appeal feels that are unfair or shouldn't be applied to their particular unit. that's one of the really simpler and more obvious tenant protection that is we should but don't already have in place throughout the country. host: what is president biden's track record on low-income housing for renters? guest: president biden has -- i honestly i have done this work for several decades now. i have seen him and his administration place more of an emphasis and attempt to do more on the affordable housing crisis than i have seen from any other

administration. his was an administration that invited renters and other impacted people to the white house to hear from them about their challenges and then to put forward a blueprint for renters rights, for example, which was the first of its kind from a white house. he's also proposed increases to essential programs like rental assistance and public housing repairs, eviction prevention programs that model the successful emergency rental assistance that his administration helped implement and get out to tenants across the board. the challenge is that for the housing crisis for many of the solutions, an administration acting on its own has limited effect on the housing crisis. it requires congressional action. so we have to see bipartisan action in the congress with

equal urgency advancing and passing protections and resources to make housing affordable if we are really going to be able to address this crisis. host: the two candidates, the vice president's housing proposal includes construction of three million new housing units in the next four years. $25,000 down payment support for rstime homeowners. take on corporate landlords and cap unfair rent increases. the former president's housing proposals,etn and deport unauthorized immigntto free up housing, cut taxes for americ families,liminate costly regulations, and free up portions of federal land for housing. your reaction to both of those? guest: again we are a nonpartisan organization. we don't take any stance in the elections. this close to the election it's difficult to compare one candidate's record to another's without doing that. so i have to be careful in this

space. i will say that one place where there is a commonality there is in some protections against evictions. one thing that both of the candidates have proposed is to use -- free up federal land to allow for more supply of apartments. or an ability to build more apartments which could have a positive effect on overall affordability. and place where there is a pretty stark difference both in what has been proposed and in the track records of former president trump and former senator harris where former president trump acted to eliminate or cut funding for key housing programs, and former senator harris and vice president harris has acted to work to try to increase funding or increase even programs that can make housing affordable for low-income people.

host: james in buffalo, kentucky, hi. you're next. caller: yes, ma'am. thank you. i love your show. thanks for your guest coming on. i have experienced low-income housing. the very first place i ever bought was a beautiful place in north carolina. the problem is it was low-income housing. i managed to buy it. the problem with it is the people that moved in -- i got back there first before development got even started, but it was really nice. the people started coming in and they were tearing the place all to pieces. they made a ghetto out of the place. i had to get out of there. i'm like here you got this really nice development. they come in and tore it all to pieces. and then i had to take my truck and get out and ride around and clean up the place so i could sell my place. and the whole time i'm like why

wouldn't you take care of something that the government is trying to help you put a roof over your head. host: we'll take those comments. diane? guest: i can't speak to the experience you had. it sounds like it was a challenge for you. i can say that people who live in affordable housing are people like those who live in housing that's not affordable. they care about their homes. they care about their communities. they are raising families in their homes. they are seniors looking to age with dignity in their homes. and, in fact, people who are low-income and extremely low-income who are most in need of affordable housing are predominantly seniors, people with disabilities, both who are living on extremely limited

fixed incomes that make it very difficult for their -- them to afford their housing. or they are families families working very low wage jobs, service jobs, home health care workers, childcare workers. earning wages that make it very difficult for them to afford their housing. and everybody in this country deserves to have a home that is accessible and affordable and in communities of their choice. we need to do more as a country to make that possible. host: sally is next in charleston, west virginia. caller: good morning. thank you so much for this important segment. i am a renter and our rent consistently continues to go up and up. but also i want to particularly point out that my sister, who

lives in tennessee, outside of nashville, had to move outside of nashville and is disabled is facing incredible increases. she has tried to find affordable housing -- excuse me. i get very nervous. host: you are doing great. she's trying to find affordable housing. caller: yes. affordable housing. and they will not rent to somebody, she's disabled, on a fixed income. they will not rent to anybody who doesn't have an income coming in that exceeds the fixed income she has. so she is in a really tough spot right now. host: all right. let's have our guest respond. guest: it's a challenge that she and many others, unfortunately,

are pace facing throughout the country. -- are facing throughout the country. people with disabilities or seniors have extremely limited fixed incomes. talking about for a single senior or person with a disability having income of around $12,000 to 15*d,000 a year -- $15,000 a year. having to try to find a way to pay rent. it's near nearly im-- nearly impossible to do unless they are doubled or tripled up with other families unless they are paying exorbitant amounts of their income for that roof over their head and having to forgo medication or store bought food as a result. or there are a very lucky few o who receive federal rental assistance to make those homes affordable. but we have a system in our country where we only fund one in our households who are

eligible and in need of housing assistance to be able to receive it. in other words, 75% of people in our country who are extremely low income and in need of housing assistance get none. and they are households who have to add their names to years or sometimes decades long waiting lists. hoping to win what's essentially a housing lottery system in our country where only the lucky 25% get the help that they need. it doesn't have to be this way. we have clear solutions, proven successful programs like rental assistance that should be made universally available to all elingeible household -- eligible households in need that requires congress to fund it adequately. i would suggest you call your member of congress and share with them this story and urge them to do more to expand rental

assistance. the other challenge, sally, that this person faces and other people with disabilities face, is a lack of accessible apartments throughout the country. that is also a real challenge in our housing market and one that needs attention and more resources to make more apartments accessible for people who need those accommodations. host: george, petersburg, virginia. hi, george. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i am a landlord. i have a solution to the situation that we have. during the covid-19, the corporate landlord, they benefited from the funds that the federal government gave. the smaller landlord we did not. i lost over $100,000 because they gave the commonwealth $1 billion. and the funds was depleted.

the remedy to this situation is that what the federal government needs to do is have funds set up for the landlord and we tap into those funds and we are able to help those who are less fortunate in our community. i think that we had a program throughout the united states that would be the solution to helping those who are struggling and trying to find houses. host: all right, george. i'll get a response. guest: thank you, george for that question. and for your concern about low-income renters and your properties or in your community. you are absolutely right that the emergency rental assistance that congress provided during the pandemic was a lifeline for millions of tenants who had lost jobs or lost income through no fault of their own and couldn't pay the rent for them to be able

to stay stably housed. and for smaller landlords to continue getting the rental income that they rely on to be able to operate and repair and continue to keep their rental properties. there wasn't enough emergency rental assistance provided for everybody to get the help that they need, but it was a tremendous amount of resources. it was historic. and it kept millions of people who otherwise would have lost their homes stably housed during it. we are working with bipartisan members of congress to build off of these lessons learned and this incredible success story of emergency rental assistance and create a permanently authorized and funded emergency rental assistance program into the future. i think that could be helpful for landlords like yourself, and certainly for the tenants who live in your properties. the other solution as i was just

discussing with the earlier caller is rental assistance. that is a win-win for tenants and for landlords. and more property owners should urge their members of congress to expand rental assistance. there are a number of landlord associations who do support expanded rental assistance, but we really need even more to get the bipartisan support we need to make rental assistance universally available to all eligible households in need. host: all right. last call here, crystal river, florida, caller. caller: yes, hi. i was listening to this conversation here. i just made this observation how your guest has talked about how donald trump didn't do this, didn't do that, and then she

talked about the biden administration and how they did all these things for renters and how to help them. once again the biden administration has taken an issue that was already bad because we had crisis for people that were homeless, in the streets, and didn't have or couldn't afford housing, and what do they do? they bring in millions and millions of more people into the country that have no work, that need housing, that need food, that need medical care, and how they want to help the problem. again, the problem that they themselves caused. host: ok. guest: the housing crisis predates the current administration and the former administration. and especially as we look at the housing challenges forepeople with -- for people with the lowest incomes, extremely

low-income households. this has been a long-standing, pervasive feature of our housing system. and until we really recognize the tremendous need for congress to act on a bipartisan basis and fund solutions at the scale necessary to make homes affordable for the lowest income people, that will continue to be the case. i just want to urge all of your callers who called in today -- your viewers, those who called in today and those listening who care deeply about the rental housing crisis, who are impacted by them, themselves, or know people who are to call your member of congress, share your stories, and urge that they do more to fund proven solutions to the housing crisis. host: diane yentel, president and c.e.o. of national low-income housing coalition. you can learn more if you can go mlihc.org. thank