♪ host: good morning, it is friday, september 13. this tuesday's debate has been discussed and reviews by members

of the media, pendants, and -- pundits. did this debate impact how you view the race, change your mind? if you are an undecided voter, we especially want to hear from you. (202) 748-8000. if you support vice president harris, (202) 748-8001. if you support former president trump, (202) 748-8002. if you support a third-party candidate or have decided not to vote at all, call (202) 748-8003 . you can also text us on that line. it is (202) 748-8003 if you do. send your first name and city/state. we are on social media, facebook.com/c-span and x @cspanwj. we are glad you are with us.

the new york times headline says, pundits said harris won the debate. undecided voters weren't so sure. the vice president talked about a sweeping vision to fix the country's most stubborn problems, but they wanted the fine print. both candidates hit the trail again after that debate. we will show you clips from both of them. we will start with vice president harris in north carolina yesterday, talking about wanting another debate. [video clip] v.p. harris: two nights ago donald trump and i had our first debate. [applause] i believe we owe it to the voters to have another debate. [applause] because this election and what is at stake could not be more important.

on tuesday night, i talked about issues that i know matter to families across america. like bringing down the cost of living, investing in america's small businesses, protecting reproductive freedom, and keeping our nation safe and secure. but that is not what we heard from donald trump. instead, it was the same old show. that same tired playbook that we've heard for years. with no plan for how he would address the american people. it is about him, not about you. folks, i said it then and i say it now, it is time to turn the page. turn the page.

turn that page. [applause] host: former president trump did talk about the possibility of anher debate, saying it will not happen. here's what he put on truth social. when a prizefighter loses a match the first words out of their mouth are, i wana rematch. polls clearly sw that i won the debate against comrade kamala harris. she was a no-show at the fox debate and refused nbc and cbs. all caps, kamala should he focused on what she did in the last four year period. there will be no third debate! here is donald trump in arizona yesterday at a rally. fmr. pres. trump: when a prizefighter loses a fight, you've seen a lot of fights, right? the first words out of that

fighter's mouth is i want a rematch, i want a rematch. that is what she said, i want a rematch. polls clearly show that i won the debate against comrade kamala harris. as you probably know -- when you say harris, does anyone know who harris is? kamala is a very different kind of a word. nice name, a very nice name. you don't notice harris. when you say harris, everyone says who the hell is that, right? she immediately called for a second debate which means she was like a prizefighter who lost the fight. we had two debates though. i had a debate with cricket joe biden -- crooked joe biden and another debate with her. she and crooked joe have destroyed our country with

mentally deranged people pouring into the u.s. unchecked, unvented, and with inflation bankrupting our middle-class it has gotten bad. everyone knows this. all of the problems caused by kamala and joe were discussed in great detail with the first debate with joe and second debate with conrad harris. she was a no-show at the fox debate. fox invited her. i sat with the great sean hannity. does everyone know sean? great man. he is a good man. i said, where is she? she didn't show so we did a town hall. he got great ratings on that town hall, i tell you. host: we are taking your calls. did tuesday's debate impact your view of the race? we want to hear from you. if you are an undecided voter, (202) 748-8000. supporting vice president harris, (202) 748-8001. for those supporting former

president trump (202) 748-8002. everyone else, you can call (202) 748-8003. we will go to the calls. margaret in arkansas, good morning. caller: good morning, how are you? host: get. -- good. caller: i was calling to say that the debate didn't really bother me because i was already a harris fan anyway. people need to wake up. trump is not for the people. he is against the people. especially people of color. the reason he wants the governors to run the states is because the governors who stand behind him are just like him. they want to treat people any kind of way. host: how do you say former president trump is against people of color, margaret? how do you come to that conclusion? caller: like the stuff that he said. make america great again and all

of that sarcastic stuff he be saying. if people listen at open their eyes, he is mainly talking about people of color. everything he be talking about welfare, everything he's talking about is always people of color. it is all types of racism. welfare, food stamps, you name it. everything, people of color. when it comes to jobs, are the migrants going to take the black jobs? why can't they take their jobs? host: got it. harold in cleveland, ohio. good morning. caller: yes, how are you doing? like i said, i'm still supporting trump. i think the debate was obviously three against one.

it sort of reminds you when she was debating mitt romney and obama. it was like candy crowley was debating mitt romney and barack obama sat back and watched the debate. a disgrace. another thing i would like to say is, another point i would like to make is, i've never seen anything like this in this country where a presidential candidate can have a bad debate like joe biden, and the powers that be in the democrat party come to him and say that he can drop out. not because he is sick, but because he is going to lose. can you imagine? everybody knew john mccain was going to lose to barack obama. can you imagine if republicans

went to john mccain and said, drop out of the race and we will replace you with someone who did not receive any votes? i've never seen anything like this in america. the supreme court eventually needs to come in and say this can't be done. four months outside of the race she didn't get a single vote. i feel biden was dropping out because he was sick or hurt, but because he was going to lose? imagine if every candidate around the country said, we are going to drop, just drop out of the race because it looks like we are going to lose the race, and we are going to replace, the powers that be in the republican and democratic party, are just going to replace them with someone who got zero votes. that's just crazy. host: harold mentioned the debate between obama and romney. we have that debate on c-span.org. you can look at that and all of the previous debates going back

to 1976. melba in texas. caller: the gentleman ahead of me was spot on. i had not thought of it like that, but he has brought something that needs to be looked at and given attention to peer my comment about trump's i want him to bring back to leanne because i can feel him slipping away in major areas where he should be stronger in. trump has laid it out for us and we see what he has to give us. we should be smart enough to want to go back to our best selves. host: what do you think kellyanne conway can bring to the campaign? caller: kellyanne kept the focus and kept him on principle. he gets personal to his detriment. that is not a good thing. kellyanne kept him focused and winning. host: here is a facebook post.

laura says, no, the tuesday debate did not impact your vote. i alreadknew everything about the candidates i needed to know. trumis a danger to our he proved that again at the debate. sandy says, not at all. these two candidates are so different. for me, it is about policies. i'm looking for the candidat that will close the border and a president that will support our military and police, strive r a better education system. we don't need big government in r lives in higher taxes. emma kratz all about controlling us. look what happened to the media, they have a political agenda. no longer are the days when journalists protec and exposed corruption. theyavbecome the face of corruption. rob says, a completely unhinged trump only solidified y was replaced the last time. no one is terminating pregnant

sees post birth, nor are people eating cats andogs. his tariffs have cost the american consumer $100 billion. he has completely dismantled the republican party. steve next, lynbrook, new york. caller: good morning. great service. i have been a c-span listener i think since the inception. i recently retired. this is the most important election. we always say that, but this really is. democracy against autocracy. the debate didn't really change my mind. i was a harris supporter. president joe biden stepped away because he knows the situation with him and everything else. going back to your other caller, what are they talking about? there's nothing in the u.s. constitution about political parties. in fact, washington and adams

warned us about the division of parties. political parties, each party can decide who the candidate is. there's nothing sacrosanct about the primaries. after all, electors elected by the constitution. that is an argument they are just using. it is always complaining. they blame and complain. trump himself, we have known him in new york for all of our lives, really, he is a carnival barker, a phony. he doesn't have any real principle. he's a tremendous danger to democracy. thank you so much for your work. host: ellen in long beach, california. caller: i will be writing in my name as president. i think every united states citizen should write in their name as president. they need to know our names. they have been feeding off of

us, republicans and democrats, for a long time. they might as well know who we are. my point is they are out of touch, these candidates. it shocked me how out of touch they are. harris is a marxist the -- marxist de facto. all of these people who claim refugee status, there is a clause in social security that says if you come in as a refugee you are entitled to five years of social security benefits. transfer of wealth from those who have earned it to those who have never paid into it. that is one black mark against harris. her other policies, she has no substance when she talks about the economy. and closing the borders is very wishy-washy and full of happy words. trump is the gothic equivalent of harris, full of doom and

gloom and horrible things but also out of touch with the people of the united states. he seems to be pounding away on how horrible -- he is correct to pound away on immigration. it is marxism and draining the wealth of our country from the individuals. he is very irrational. he seems unable to stay on a topic. he is a gothic counterpart to harris. he is trying to paint the doom and gloom picture if you don't vote for him, but there is no substance. no real plans given. this is a formality. this election is a formality to vote for which autocrat. this is becoming an autocracy. trump needs to realize the way the world is his globalization and trade. we make a lot of money in long beach off of the port, and that is a lot of trade with china.

i don't feel like slamming down the door on them. we lose money. host: helen, we will have a round table drilling down on the economic policies of the candidates in our next hour. be sure to listen to that. teresa in waco, texas. you are next. caller: i will be voting for president trump. i listened to the debate and i always like what he has to say. i've been to israelis. they are all -- i've been to his rallies. they are always fun. harris, i kind of thought she was given the questions. a whistleblower has come out and said that yes, she was indeed given the questions. i watched president trump's rally last night. he came up with a new concept. of course he said no tax on tips, no tax on social security, and no tax on overtime. my father who is 80 years old

who is not political at all called me and asked me if i heard that. he was so excited. there are so many people on social security who are still working. they need the no tax on social security and no tax on overtime. i love it president trump is offering. a lot of the things that were stated during the debate that they fact checked president trump on our true. those were all true what he said. the situation in springfield, ohio is going on. governor dewine sent in-state troops. he is requesting 2.5 million dollars. there are a lot of terrible things going on because of the haitian immigration. they use those animals for voodoo rituals that they have. host: i'm sorry. i'm trying to find what you were talking about that there was a whistleblower about vice

president harris being given the questions? can you tell me where you found that so i can look it up? caller: sure. hold on. philip anderson. it is stated it is now confirmed kamala harris cheated on a rigged debate. she will be releasing an affidavit from an abc whistleblower regarding the debate. he just signed a nondisclosure agreement with the attorney of the whistleblower. it will all be coming out. host: philip anderson is who? caller: i'm not sure. it just says philip anderson. host: what is the website? caller: hold on. i just have it screen shot ted. it will be released. i don't know how or when but i heard it will be today. it always seems to go that way.

it seems to go that way whenever a democrat is involved. host: we will look into that to see if it's actually true. joey in marietta, georgia. caller: good morning. i am so saddened to see how things are going in this country. from someone who used to believe and support the democratic platform, i'm amazed how so many of us have been lied to. we have been taken advantage of. think about it. if you go back to your common sense, look at the direction this country is going morally. do we believe, democrats, that it is ok to have -- boys rescue? how far does it have to go before we say enough is enough? this is getting out of control. we need to think back to reality. the reality is, the democrats

have been lying to us for so many years. all of this good talk and good appearances me nothing, because you can see, why wasn't all of these great ideas, why weren't they implemented 3.5 years ago? why did these things not evolve when she became vice president? why is it that now all of a sudden these great ideas are coming to light? it is because they are lying to us. they have been lying to us for so many years. they want to get into government, they want to become powerful, and they want to take this country in a direction where none of us, democrats, republicans, or independents don't want the country to go where it is going. everyone sees the food, utilities, the rent, the cost of insurance, everything is skyrocketing. how in the world can we say that this is good? how can we support the party that has done nothing to change any of those things? as a matter of fact, they

probably made it to become the way it is now. how the world can we sit back and say, no, everything will change in november. everything will come together. we will have low-cost this and low cost of that. none of that will happen because none of it has been done. the person, and i hate to say this because some people will hate me for this, that the one person who proved gas, food, utilities, rent, insurances, and everything else were at reasonable, livable costs, he is the one that has done it. he is the only politician that has actually said what he was going to do and actually did it. get off the hate wagon about his personality and what he's done and how many times he's filed bankruptcy. please, get over that. look up what he's done for this country. how many wars were going on when he was president? how any people did respect this country? you need to wake up. democrats, i'm begging you.

it is time to put country over party. host: here is vice president harris' first post-debate ad. [video clip] >> there are two very different visions for our country, one focused on the future and one on the past. >> we are a failing nation. a nation that is dying. a nation in serious decline. >> i offer a new generation of leadership for our country. one who brings a sense of optimism about what we can do. we have so much more in common than what separates us. we can chart a new way forward. i'm kamala harris and i approve this message. host: we have not been able to confirm the allegation that vice president harris was given questions ahead of time by abc news or anybody else, but we will look at that if anything comes up. robin, mercer island, washington, undecided.

caller: thank you for taking my call. i appreciated the comments this morning. i watch washington journal, i followed the rnc and dnc debate. i was watching parliament the other day, the labour party. these two candidates. she looks like she represents a bright future and she has hope written all over her face every time she talks to people. president trump is like a deflated air balloon. he did some things in office that were -- i think helped, but you can't get people behind him because he doesn't have the respect. i don't think either of these people can accomplish what we

actually need going forward. because, as many people have stated, former vice president trump is unstable. i do think that he is a person that, behind all this negative -- i don't know why he opens his mouth, honestly, the way he does. it works against him in these debates. host: what is your most important issue? caller: for me, i really am concerned about the budget. i don't hear how -- i don't want a bunch of empty hope. i want solid this is how we are going to accomplish this.

i'm fully disabled. i don't like feeling terrified that medicaid and medicare are going to be stripped away. it's not going to be my terminal illness that kills me, but the lack of medical care. i worked my whole life since i was nine years old. i'm -- i think we need at least three parties. that is what it boils down to. we need three parties. we need someone to break this tie, this civil war between democrats and republicans. i think it is ridiculous we have to watch beyonce vs -- i don't even know what to call trump. host: is there a third-party candidate that you like?

is there not anybody out there that you would be interested in voting for? caller: there's not anybody out there that i would be interested in voting for. i wish there were. host: tom, oklahoma, good morning. caller: thank you, mimi, for taking my call. you're doing a great job out there. a couple of comments. one about mr. trump's take on the prizefighter deal. i remember muhammad ali would float around like a butterfly and sting you laika b -- like a bee. that is kind of what happened. all of this would go away if we would take big money out of politics. i saw a multibillionaire dangling $1 trillion over the gop's head and demanding they keep this thing stirred up

for the right-wing movement. that is about all i've got to say. host: who is the trillionaire? caller: i can't remember his name. i would have to look for it. it was on cnn yesterday. it was a small story. it made sense to me that the big money is just unbelievable where it is coming from and how much power it has over the small people in america. host: this is in variety magazine. taylor swift's harris endorsement drove 400,000 visitors to u.s. information sites in 24 hours. she is the most famous childless cat lady in the world and drove a huge spike of traffic to the vote.gov site following her

endorsement of vp harris for president. she made that in an instagram post. "i am voting for kamala harris because she fights for the rights and causes i believe need a warrior to champion them. i think she is steady handed, gifted leader, and i believe we can accomplish so much more in this country if we are led by calm and not chaos." new york, new york, good morning. caller: good morning mimi and c-span. if it wasn't for the raw unedited footage that c-span provides, i am afraid that i would be even more confused and depressed than i am now. i feel a lot of the -- of course, a lot of the post-debate discussion happened on 9/11. i'm surprised that a lot of the debate was not discussed in that context.

i asked-- myself, a big decidinr in my decision-making was who would i want as president on such a day as that. the idea of either one of them being president on such a day, which hopefully will not be several times worse, gives me the creeps. that's a big question i have about harris and her foreign policy. i have a feeling that she will, out of a benevolent sense of continuity, keep sullivan, blinken, and austin. i think that under that kind of management under such a day, the result would be a catastrophe out of confusion of mismanagement on the part of the administration. of course if trump was president, the reaction would be some kind of ruthless nationalism that would make whatever bush did seem lame. host: so, you mentioned bush.

he was president, george w. bush was president on 9/11. were you happy with his leadership? caller: well, about his leadership, his leadership turned upside down on 9/11. there was a perception and operation of his leadership on september 10 and then on the 11th, all of that was wiped clean. that's what we should consider about the future. however we may be content about trump or harris' message of administration, it will be turned totally upside down if unfortunately, god forbid, such an awful national tragedy or something worse would happen. it would be like bush, totally wiped clean, a totally redefined administration based on the personnel that he or she would have. and of course our state of mind

at the time. host: who are you going to vote for in november? caller: i don't think i will vote for either one of them. the idea of either one of them being president on such a catastrophic day gives me the creeps. either one would be a route to catastrophe through different paths. total reckless mismanagement. i can't choose either of them. host: ok. let's talk to bruce, texas, next. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go right ahead. caller: i just want to make a comment about the debate the other night. she definitely got under his skin. you could see it by his profile. you know? this idea of them -- he comes, trump comes out with these ideas

-- it's extreme. people eating dogs and cats? it's just a little much, you know what i mean? i just, i -- host: did you change your mind about anything as a result of the debate? caller: yes, she definitely won, she got under his skin and he didn't like it much. he tried to overstate david muir and step all over him. it's a bullying tactic. look at me, look at me, i'm donald j. trump. the other idea, the reason why trump does what he does is to sow chaos because there is profit to be made in chaos. here's an idea for you, i went to a family funeral and told a couple of people what i did for

a living and told them the truth. family members. they had no idea exactly what i did and what, what, where i was, what i was into in my career and they didn't believe me. it's as simple as that. host: they didn't believe me -- you why? caller: about my career? i'm retired, now. i served my time in the u.s. military, ok? after i graduated high school. got out of the military after 8.5 years, went to college. got my degree. got into plumbing, pipefitting, welding, nuclear power industry, so forth and so on. they look at you like -- you never did that come in no way you did that. host: all right, bruce. let's take a get more from

warmer president trump's rally in arizona, yesterday. [video clip] >> 3.5 years. harris, biden administration. resettling illegal immigrants from the failed state of haiti. totally failed country. very sad. american communities. 200,000 illegally flown into the united states by airplane. think of that. coming out of haiti. coming out of other failed countries. levels nobody has ever seen before. in addition to aurora, colorado, there is a place called springfield, ohio, you have been reading about it, 20,000 illegal haitian immigrants have descended upon the town of 58,000 people, destroying their way of life. this was a beautiful community and now it is horrible, what's happened. enrollment in medicaid and food assistance programs have soared. motor vehicle accidents,

skyrocketing. recordings of 911 calls show residents reporting that the migrants are walking off with the town geese. they are taking the geese. you know where geese are? in a park. walking off with their pets. my dog has been taken. my dog has been stolen. [laughter] this can only happen. these people are the worst. i'm telling you. biden, kamala, the worst combination in the history of our country. host: we are taking your calls for another 25 minutes on the question, did the debate impact your view of the race? former president trump mentioned springfield, ohio, and we have a portion from the city manager who held a news conference on wednesday about the allegations. [video clip] >> springfield is a dynamic

community with many positive attributes. it's disappointing that some of the narrative surrounding our city has been skewed by misinformation circulating on social media, further amplified by political rhetoric in the current, highly charged presidential election cycle. our springfield community is making notable progress that contributes to its growing appeal among new residents, including immigrants. this development is underpinned by our city's they versed -- diverse and robust industrial base encompassing technology, automotive, food production, and distribution sectors. the growth in our workforce population has supported the expansion of local businesses, contributing to the stabilization of our local economy. host: following that, there have

been threats against springfield, ohio. here's the local paper, saying "city hall, schools, county, hit by bomb threats tied to haitian issues." city hall, evacuated. county offices, closed. parents asked to pick up children early. several city, county, and school buildings around springfield closed thursday because of a bomb threat to multiple facilities throughout springfield. "the springfield mayor said everyone in the city hall building was moved out and is safe, but would not comment on the precise language of the threat but said it came from someone claiming to be from springfield and mentioned frustration with the city related to haitian immigration issues. back to the phones, now. jamie, boca raton, florida. caller: good morning.

nice to be on the air with you this morning. i love your show. very interesting. i want to get right to the point. you know, everybody that has left democratic party, it's not a matter anymore about democratic or republican. it's a matter about the people. now, you have two parties here. ok? like they say. the main -- the man from california was right on target with everything. that young lady who was also speaking from ohio. anyway, let me tell you something. everyone talking about trump being all about racist and this and that, it's all bull, it's all bull. i'm a white american, ok? i was born here. my family grandparents come from in milk -- italy, also immigrants. they work hard. hard-working people. no money. very hard-working. they put their money back into our country. we don't make money here, come

from other countries, all from other countries, work, take all the money, send it back to their countries, their banks, their families. nobody does that, here. ok, to a point? yes. you are talking about race. everyone says we are divided black, black, black, this that, it's all bull. let me tell you, look at all the jobs. all your unions. all your representatives, representatives in high offices and companies. they are all black. nobody is against black people. they are brainwashing the whole country. trump is not a great personality. no, he has his weird ways about him. he's a person, he's a human being. he's not paid off by other countries, millions of dollars to keep quiet. host: all right, mimi. staying in florida, orlando, ida, good morning.

i do, are you there? orlando? caller: yes, i am, i'm sorry, i had you on mute. host: that's ok caller:, go ahead. yes, it just tears my heart up when i'm seeing the ex-president of the united states stand there and talk about haitians the way that he was talking about haitians. not considering that these people have children. that, you know, they have family members. how this is impacting those people. how they feel. no one is taking into account their feelings. you know? no one is taking -- it just -- and then when someone calls in and says, the young lady that just called in about her family members, they were, you know, immigrants in that? you can tell by her voice what,

in her heart, you can hear it, what's in her heart. she may say that she has, you know, nothing against immigrants, but when she starts to talk about it, the anxiety in her voice tells you just what she really feels. it just hurts my heart. the young man that called about 911 and is having a hard time about which candidate to vote for and he's not going to vote? he doesn't think he's going to vote for any candidate? when i think about 9/11, when i look at kamala and president trump, if our country was in another situation like that, she has the mindset to handle it. host: all right. we have got a couplef events

for your schedule later today. starting at 12:00 noon, this afternoon, the republican presidential nominee, donald trump, holding a press conferen from a golf coursen south los angeles county, california. live coverage at noon eastern here oc-an on the app and online. and then tonight, the former president will be at a rally in las vegas. he, nevada gave its six electoral vot to biden and clinton, but has remained within reach of republicans according to recent polling. that event starts at 10 p.m. here on c-span. also this evening, democratic presidential nominee kamala harris speaks to reporters at an event in wilkes-barre, pennsylvania, 7 p.m. eastern here on c-span, on the app, c-span now, and on c-span.org.

barry in phoenix, arizona. good morning, barry. caller: good morning. thanks an awful lot for letting me speak today, i appreciate it. talking about the fact that president trump is running for office this time, again. we certainly need him in office. he's the only person running for office that is quite capable of handling everything needing to be handled as far as being president of the united states. i'm a little upset about the fact that the debate seems to favor her, kamala harris over trump, but i believe that if you look at more thoroughly what trump is saying and doing at this point, you get a better outcome of it and it means more to --

host: you get a better idea from what he said at the debate or his rallies or where? caller: i definitely get a better view of what's going on by watching his rallies. from time to time, everything is discussed. he overcomes all objections anyone might have about about, about, um, him running for president, etc.. there isn't much repetitiveness that you hear from the rallies. i miss the idea of another debate, perhaps, but i think he's wise in deciding it's not necessary, because he is making himself quite visible and she's not. i think that really is going to be today, a, um, a realization

of this election, the fact that she's not making himself visible. host: if you miss any rallies on either candidate you can always see them on our website, c-span.org. here is thomas in morrisville, pennsylvania. caller: thanks for having me. i watched the debate. i felt, did such a fantastic job -- kamala did such a fantastic job. so poised. she's done a great job so far. i feel like trump is always a train wreck. the credit that people want to give him? it's basically the biden obama era, when they were doing their term, the first 100 days trump came in the door and took credit for the economy and so many other things that he didn't put

any work and to do so that when callers come in -- call into said that trump did this and that, he did nothing to help the economy and i feel harris is definitely equipped to do so and at this point in time she should focus on his criminal activity and doing what needs to be done to handle that. he's not fit to be a president. he's not fit to run anything, including companies. that's why he has such a bad reputation with what he does. he's not a leader, doesn't come across as a leader. the leader was definitely harris and she does a great job, fantastic job. that's what our country needs. it's not democrat or republican, it's about character and who would be best for moving our country forward and be logical. host: i wanted to ask you, where about is mooresville? caller: outside philadelphia. like, near philadelphia but closer to jersey.

it's in pennsylvania. host: what are you hearing from other people in the area as far as who they will be supporting? caller: the majority of people that i have spoken to in the house as i passed by have signs for harris, support for harris in large numbers. i take walks in the community, i'm part of a lot of community events. when i passed by houses i see a lot of sign supporting harris, which i'm glad to see. host: all right, thanks for calling in. richard, savannah, georgia, good morning. caller: good morning, mimi. i saw the debate. i really don't need a debate to let me know that one dollar 80 six cents gas was good. food was three times, two times less than what it is today. insurance for young kids,

mortgage rates, 3%. now they are 7%, 8%, 9%. going higher, soon with a rate increase on the fed. if you run tape of the last three or four months, you will see the media created kamala. all the news was saying kamala is bringing joe down, she's got to go, etc., and now suddenly we have the first debate in history in june in a presidential campaign and george clooney and a back room billionaires wrote a letter saying joe you got to go. so, kamala was installed, if you will, in the media instantly made her out to be who she is today. i think the voters are a lot smarter than the media thinks we are. i think for a fact, i saw governor dewine on units -- on tv yesterday talking about springfield, his words, the

governor, springfield, see his words. telling you things, i felt bad for joe biden. he's been around a long time. i'm not against joe. maybe i'm wrong, no doubt about it, he yesterday put on a make america great again hat again. i wish you would run that clip. maga hat. host: richard, i want to show you this. this is pbs news hour, ohio governor mike dewine pushes back on fake migrants story amplified by trump, "the internet can be quite crazy." so, him saying it's not true. caller: ok, if you watch fox news yesterday, governor dewine was being interviewed by one of those commentators and he said he didn't, the military, not the

military, the police, state patrol, springfield, asked the biden administration for $2.5 million to help. they don't want to be embarrassed. there is a situation going on there. he is asking for the help. he's on the news asking for it. host: all right. here is bronson, pueblo, colorado. caller: good morning, mimi. host: how is it going? caller: it's beautiful. this election is between the beauty and the beast. when i say beast, i mean, first, let me tell you, i'm a disabled veteran from the vietnam war, which donald trump evaded. he's a draft dodger. i'm a graduate from san diego state school of social work. i've been working most of my

life. i've got approximately 10 issues here regarding donald trump. number one, he criticizes dead veterans. number two, he's a customer of prostitutes. number three, he's a business fraud and sheet. number four, he criticizes prisoners of war. number five, he's a rapist. number six, he loves dictators. number seven, multiple bankruptcies. number eight, he rejects losing the 2020 election. number nine, he directed the january 6 destruction on the capital and cancel the certification of the 2020 election. number 10, last but not least,

he is an evangelist fake. i hope -- i'm rooting -- i'm rooting for harris. i think she's going to win. host: got it. i wanted to clarify to our previous caller about governor dewine, this is a cleveland paper that said that governor mike dewine deploying highway patrols to springfield, says he sending troopers there to deal with traffic problems that he ascribed to a surge in migrants who, dewine says, don't understand traffic laws. you can see that at cleveland.com if you would like more information on that. this is troy in valdosta, georgia. caller: valdosta, i had a hard

time pronouncing it here 30 years ago. i was always corrected by the natives. yeah, i'm looking at the internet right now and that is the story that harris may have been pushed to answer the questions in the debate out there. so on and so on. i would call it on less than conventional feeds. newsweek characterized it as "washington journal -- as maga pushes claim of abc whistleblower. sounds like they are being skeptical, that story is out there and up in the last 13 hours. as far as this thing in ohio -- host: ok, so, troy, i will let you go on, hold on, we have it here, what you just referenced. it says "maga pushes claim of abc whistleblower after debate.

some pundits and political experts called the trump performance rocky, some of his supporters are accusing abc news of bias, even suggesting that harris was given the debate questions in advance." it says, "controversy escalated on line when a self-proclaimed whistleblower used x to say there was an affidavit alleging that the debate was rigged and will be released." we will certainly watch out for that. go ahead with what you wanted to say. caller: i'm not suggesting it's true or false, the claim has bubbled up. if the claim pans out to be true, i won't be surprised at that either. or i won't be surprised that it's just something thrown out by the maga contingent. either one of those outcomes will not surprise me, mimi.

with regards to ohio, i did see again on an x video last night an actual arrest of a woman over a dead cat. it was, it was posted on the internet as an arrest that was captured live in ohio on video. it has been posted on the internet. it's authenticity, i wouldn't, i couldn't speculate. host: tell me about the debate and how did you react to it, what were your thoughts? did you change your mind about anything? caller: i don't think the debate is going to move the needle. not going to move mine. i'm going to vote for trump. i tend to agree with my fellow georgian from before. i know what my standard of life was under trump, what my bank account was, and it has not gotten better and i vote my wallet. i'm not a maga follower.

i look at the state of california, now, where kamala harris comes from. i just, i don't see that as a model i want to follow. she wasn't in the state legislature, i believe. she was a prosecutor and u.s. senator. but i just look at california and i don't like that government, i don't think it would be a successful model for the nation. i'm going to reluctantly hold my nose and vote for trump. host: all right, let's go to grand rapids, michigan. good morning. caller: good morning, mimi. long time not calling, i been with you since the heyday. first of all, i think that kamala harris did quite a remarkable job.

also, to the naysayers out there saying the questions were given to her already? that's absolutely a lie. those people that gave that report that was doing that debate, those are stellar reporters. there is no way that they would give questions that they would already be given out there for once again, people should take economics 101. they should know that trump came in on a good economy. that economy turned into a pandemic. he did not know what to do. running around like the old man that he is, telling people to drink bleach, killed a lot of people in this country. that being said and them saying, harris handling the job, excuse me, people, did you know that we have people in place to take care of the business and? they are not going to get rid of

all the people in place to do what they did when trump was in office, obama was in office, biden was in office, even when bush was in office. you people need to learn or read, some of you people need to educate yourself. you need to take economics 101. host: well, glad you said that, that's coming up in our next segment. frank, chesapeake, virginia. caller: good morning. i just wanted to make a couple of comments here. first of all, to the young lady you just had on the phone before me, i agree with what she was talking about. i was listening earlier and she was talking about, you know, trump and no taxes on tips, no taxes on social security and so forth. in truth, i don't think there will be any taxes on social

security because in his 2025 model he wants to get rid of social security, medicaid, and only take care of his billionaire friends that are looking out for him. host: frank, mr. trump has gone to great lengths to distance himself from project 2025. caller: yeah, right, of course he distances himself. is he going to admit that he has anything to do with it? no, he wouldn't admit it having anything to do with that. i just think that she did a great wanted to take one of her messages that she said when she said it couldn't would eat him for lunch, she it to him for lunch. that is all have to say, the fact that us middle and poor

class of people, we will not have a chance when he gets in there. they proved it back in 2016. host: more to come on "washington journal." up next, a deep dive into the candidates' economic policy with oren cass and brendan duke. and later will be joined by heather probert from a think tank and will talk about when the prime minister starmer meets with president bush. we will be right back. ♪ >> american history tv, saturdays on c-span two,

exploring the people and events that tell the american story. at 1:15 p.m. eastern, a history professor and author talks about the 1774 trial of a british chaplain as well as lgb history during the revolution. watch a series historic presidential elections exploring what made the elections stork and pivotal issues and the lasting impact on the nation. this week the election of 1860, or abraham lincoln defeated several other candidates including senator stephen douglas to become the first republican elected president. several states before he took office pulled out of the union and lead to the war. and on the presidency, presidential historian on how presidential foreign policy and war making powers evolved from the time of george washington to the modern era. watch american history tv saturdays on c-span2, or watch

online anytime at c-span.org/history. >> book tv every sunday on c-span 2 with authors discussing leading nonfiction books. former commerce secretary wilbur ross shares his book where he talks about his decades long career on wall street and experiences in washington during the trump administration. at 6:15 p.m. eastern, a chief political reporter looks at louisiana's reconstruction in the gubernatorial election of 1862 and political and racial violence that occurred. at 10:00 p.m. eastern on afterwards, a former assistant u.s. attorney and law professor kim whaley and author at the

history of the pardon system and how it works and recent challenges it is facing. she is joined by university of michigan emeritus professor. watch sunday on c-span2 and find a schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at booktv.org. >> the book is called "behind closed doors: in the room with reagan and nixon." it is a title of a memoir of a man who worked closely with both . the author was a speech writer and confident to former presidents nixon and reagan in the 1960's, 1970's and 1980's. he was a lawyer based in california writing, "i spent a decade and a half in close a confidential contact with these two presidents."

in 1990, when president reagan and mixon were together chatting about history, he kept notes of their conversation which he reveals in his memoir. >> with books behind closed doors, in the room with reagan and nixon on this episode book notes plus which is available on the c-span now free mobile app or wherever you get your podcasts. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back to "washington journal." we are joined by oren cass, founder and chief at american compass and brendan duke of the center for american progress. tell us about your mission and funding. guest: the miss it -- the mission is emphasizing the importance of family, community

and industry to the nation of stress liberty and prosperity. we are on the right of center trying to push the republican party and conservatives away from just blind faith in free markets and more focus on what is good for workers, family and the nation as a whole. as you might imagine, we are funded by foundations all across the political spectrum, individuals across the political spectrum, corporations, and we received funding from limit labor union it. so pretty much everybody. host: and what about you? guest: said for american fund works to fund a more equitable and just economy peered our funding comes from several donors but we are an independent think tank and we call the shots. host: i want to start with inflation because that seems to be the biggest concern among voters.

brendan, vice president harris said she would crackdown on food and grocery companies engaging in price gouging. how would that actually work and will it help middle and lower class americans? guest: what she laid out is something that exists in several states where it basically if there is an emergency, you can't hike the price of eggs 5000% and you have to settle at a measly 200%. the national economy, we have walmart, amazon, big retailers and they have lost that apply on a national basis. she had other ideas that will really make a difference for american families on taxes, housing and a variety of ways. host: what is your opinion on that? do you think that will be helpful, and is that what is contributed to the problem of higher food prices? guest: i don't think that is

what is contributing to the problem. we probably don't really disagree on this point. lots of states have price gouging was in an emergency. it can be good to have it in an emergency but we don't have the emergency price gouging going on right now. so forward looking items that might help in another pandemic may be could play a role but it doesn't have anything to do with the prices where they are today. host: what other policies that will bring prices down and bring the inflation rate down as well? guest: that is the right distinction and whether or not both parties have not made as well they need to is that bringing inflation down means prices stopped rising so fast. host: that has been happening. guest: inflation has finally come back down almost to the range that the federal reserve would it target but that just

means that prices are still going up, just episode of the slow rate we have typically been accustomed to. there is not a lot you can do to push prices back down to where they were in 2019. and you probably wouldn't want to. economists don't like a lot of inflation and they don't like a lot of deflation. the goal typically is price stability. and stable expectations. what i think policymakers should be targeting and what we really want to see in the economy is this situation where prices are fairly stable, rising slowly and we should be focusing on not rising as quickly as wages we want wages going up faster than prices are going up so people can afford to buy more. host: has that been happening? guest: it almost goes month to month. depending on what time frame,

you could say maybe it has or maybe it hasn't. i believe the data suggests that we are back to pre-pandemic and we just have not seen a lot of wage growth or anything in real terms we have seen in some wages declined. i think when inflation was very high, that was what was causing the squeeze is that you feel prices going up but you don't have a bigger paycheck that will afford that. host: the topic i know you disagree on is trade and tariffs. brendan, the harris campaign has been citing your numbers for how much mr.'s tariffs would cost american families. talk about how you came to that calculation and what you think it would do to prices. guest: basically, the calculation said the tariffs are

simple which is he proposed a 10% to 20% tariff or tax on every imported good and a 60% on every thing from china. if you just do the multiplication and try to target the middle income families, that is $2500 or more for a typical family. the key thing is when analysts look at this, they all agree this is going to increase inflation. bloom per -- bloomberg put this at 3.7% and now it is 2.5%. hopefully headed towards a percent. goldman sachs said we are talking about three percent and moody's said 3.5%. wall street analysts agree that will push up prices. and so tariffs are a tool that can be useful. the biden-harris administration

maintained trump's tariffs for the first term. it is the sort of thing where some makes sense and maybe others don't. the quantity matters and i don't think what he is proposing gets us to the goals we are trying to achieve, in that taxing coffee and bananas and all the things we don't produce in the united states will not create more production it means consumers will pay more for them. if you come up with a targeted tariff policy like biden laid out, more like trump's first term in some ways but the benefits don't meet the costs. host: let's hear from former president trump from the debate when he was talking about this topic. [video clip] >> she made an incorrect statement. we are doing tariffs on other countries and other countries will finally have to after 75 years pay us back for all we have done for the world and the

tariff will be substantial in some cases. i took in billions and billions of dollars from china. they never took the tariff off because it was so much money they can't, it would destroy everything they set out. they have taken billions of dollars from china and left the tariffs on. when i had it, i had tariffs and it yet i had no inflation. we have had a terrible economy because inflation which is known as a country buster, we have inflation like very few people have ever seen for, probably the worst in our nations history. we were at 21% and i was being generous because many things are 50 percent to 80% higher than they were a few years ago. this is been a disaster for the middle class and every class. host: just to give you an idea of the proposals themselves, we will put them on the screen.

former president trump proposes to impose a 10% to 20% tariff on imports from all countries a 60% tariff on imports from china, vice president harris to implement targeted and strategic support for american workers. we got that from the associated press and new york times. the reaction. guest: i think what he was describing, the criticism you are hearing, when it comes to the question of who pays the cost of the tariffs, the answer is somewhat complicated. one thing that is quite funny in my mind is that in other contexts his progressive groups who really focus on this point and say, wait a minute, who actually pays the cost of this or that tax and who gets the benefits. it is only four summaries in the

context of tariffs when you have folks saying, let's just pay the total percentage cost of the tariff and assume all that shows up in prices. the reality is that it doesn't, and we know that from the first set of tariffs the trump administration posed. the american people lived through that period in 2018 and 2019. you can look in the data. there is no evidence of effect on inflation at all. when that the economic research finds that happens is that yes, the cost of something coming from china might go up, but one place that gets eaten or paid is by the retailer. the retailer doesn't necessarily pass that on to the consumer. that is exactly what we want to have happen. the whole point is that we want things made in america to be more attractive to produce, consume then things you might be bringing in from a place like china. instead of doing the very

simplistic creating the biggest and scariest dollar amount we can, it is important to think about the actual problem we have, because a massive trade deficit, hollowing out of american manufacturing, reliance on countries like china, do we want to do something about it? it is not going to be free but will actually make the american people much better off. host: do you make a distinction between what type of product is having this tariff imposed on it? if we talk about t-shirts and things like that, is there a difference than semiconductors and electric vehicles? guest: for the biggest advantages of what the president has imposed is it doesn't make those distinction. if you are going to coming into the country, there are some things we don't grow here, say bananas, that you will play the tariff on. but there are an awful lot of

things we could be making here very productively using all of the incredible technology we have here, absolutely. something like t-shirts is a great example. it is exactly the people -- what the people go to. manufacturing is very capital intensive. you can use a lot of machinery and automation and also a place where there is incredible technological process in terms of the materials we are using, the integration of technology. it is the mindset of saying, why would you make t-shirts in the united states and that has frankly what has gotten us into trouble. what i would prefer to do and what i think is what you see in the trump approach is in a sense to let the market work. let's say we have a preference for things made in america over things made abroad.

those things that make sense to come back to america will come back and if there are some things that don't, they won't. a final point on am making is let's keep in mind that the cost of the tariff is tax revenue. you don't collect the tariff and set it on fire, you send it to the u.s. treasury, so that is money we can spend to reduce other taxes on family, invest in better manufacturing, support families that are struggling, paydown or method -- massive deficit. everything has a costs and benefits but the idea that tariffs are just the giant pile of money taken away from people and set on fire is completely wrong. it is the exactly the policy the united states had for most of our existence as we became the greatest economy and strongest middle-class in the world. host: the quick response.

guest: you have to take it completely into context. we do know that lower and middle income families will bear a lot of that cost at the same time we talking about cutting corporate tax rates. they are heavily touted to the wealthy. when find out lower and middle class families are the ones who are paying the price on the tax for wealthy people and the burden on the trade deficit is felt by lower and middle class families in trump's idea. host: trump says it extend or expand the 2017 tax cuts, lower the corporate rate from 21% to 15%, eliminate federal income tax on tips and social security income and also eliminate taxes on overtime pay.

what is your reaction to those proposes? guest: when you total up the cost of the trump tax cuts but is seven trillion dollars. there is no way to pay for all of that. that is the key part, why not just -- at the same time, one of the key things is that lower taxes and so security is dangerous. in those are running out of money and benefits are going to get cuts. the cuts will be deeper if he enacts taxes on those benefits. this is just really focused to wealthy people and met some better to middle and will cuss

people that has holes in it. host: do you agree? guest: protecting social security, it is almost entirely those who are already higher income recipients of social security on top of other incomes that are paying real taxes on social security benefits and to his point, it directly takes money out of the trust fund if you do that. if i were looking to reduce taxes, that is not one where i would focus. if you go through the list, it is easy to create a very unattractive version of each element and make sense of a potentially useful element. just to highlight two of them, when it comes to what happensn the tax cutting jobs acthich is the i-17 trump taxes, their ideas on what might happen with that.

if you look at what is in the republican platform from the convention, they don't say extend all of the trump tax cuts , they say extend the tax cuts for something like working families. so how many of the tax cuts extended are in question. if you look at what happened with the bush tax cuts generation of, but they did was they left once for top earners expire if you do that to have a real problem of how to pay for it. i would certainly agree with his point that if you just try to make the whole thing permanent, a lot of that is going to high earners and there are a lot of issues that don't end up looking that way. interestingly, from -- trump has revised the corporate tax cut

for just across the board but say it is targeted manufacturing benefits and if you are a domestic producer he should get the lower tax rates, otherwise you should have the higher one and get hit with tariffs above that. it is really an across-the-board orbit tax cut in an effort to encourage u.s. manufacturing. host: both candidates have endorsed no taxes on tips. a lot of people bring up raising the minimum wage in that discussion. are these two related and would one benefit workers more than the other? what is your thoughts on the taps on tics and -- tips in raising minimum wage. guest: i think the tax on tips isn't a bad ashes is a bad idea if you are an employer, it would

be better if we cut your pay as far as possible and try to get 80% of pay through tips. there are some lines of work where that is what your job might look like but we certainly don't want to create an incentive to turn all jobs into that. the impulse behind it is how do we run work support to lower wage workers is the right one. host: how do you do that? guest: raising the minimum wage could be useful tip but we need to look at what the problem is and what we are trying to do just want workers to have more power in the economy and have a tight labor market. as we saw later in the trump administration and also coming out of the pandemic, when employers are desperate to hire workers, things go better for workers. one thing i think that is especially attractive and vice presidential nominee advance is

one of the cosponsors in the senate which is a proposal to dramatically is the minimum wage but along with that imposed what is a system that would ensure that all employers are only hiring illegal workers thinking combination of that says to employers, we actually mean it. you can't hire illegal immigrants and you need to stay to american workers is the exact thing that will have the best benefit for those who most need the raise. host: what do you think of that? guest: first of all, we both agree that raising the minimum wage is the key for lifting workers. one thing harris has up with is that workers, at the long and

compared to other workers. it is hard to justify. that would have a bigger impact on low and moderate wage workers. the vast majority don't turn tips. you have security guards in dishwashers. the second part is, over one third of low and moderate wage workers don't pay income tax. so ted cruz has a bill to do that, it just cuts income taxes with a -- the minimum wage is that you wait to do that could what he is laying out on immigration, kind of what we are talking about is one candidate has endorsed and one who hasn't.

host: will bring you into this conversation. the numbers are democrats (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, an independents (202) 748-8002. we will start with dan in california, republican. caller: good afternoon. oren, i have some feedback and then a question for both of you. we talk about the trump tax cuts expiring for let's say i looked at an article this past weekend and shows what is middle-class according to each state. $150,000, what is the real dollar evaluation to the expiration of the tax cuts? let's say it next year, how much more of a tip -- hit to my w-2

will it look like? we talked about them expiring what does that translate to? and then you said tariffs don't get passed on to the buyer. that goes against what every other professor says in college. and the question to both of you, if you rage -- raise the minimum wage, that gets passed on to the purchasers and we end up paying for that minimum wage wage -- wage raise. host: we will take that. guest: i think his point about the minimum wage and tariffs is a useful one and exactly right that a lot of economists have tended to have very simple draw it on a blackboard answer to both and they say if you have a

terror, here is what it moves and the consumer pays the price. if you wage increase the minimum wage, here is why fewer people get hired. what we have learned about the real world, especially in the past few decades is that the economy is more collocated than that. one thing that happens when you raise the minimum wage is you create an incentive for making workers more productive. if you know you are going to have to pay a worker more, it makes more sense to bring in the new machinery that is going to justify the higher wage for the worker. if there is a tara that makes it works -- tariff that makes it more expensive to bring in the good, create a better job in the united states. just generally as americans and economic policymakers is to stop this habit of just saying, ok,

what would happen literally on the first date if he did this policy? what is the easiest and most obvious thing you think? what is the actual shape of the economy going to be and what changes do we want to see if we want to see an economy that has a lot more investment in manufacturing and domestic production and see an economy that puts a premium on creating good jobs and investing in workers, that things like a higher minimum wage and things like tariffs can be really positive forces in the long run. host: dan asked about the 2017 tax cuts expiring at the end of 2020 five. what is the actual impact he is asking? guest: according to the tax policy center, it'll income earners would get a $1000 tax increase if they expire. experts do not disagree on the class and they want to extend

the tax working families so they are taking care of. harris has said she is not going to raise taxes on any buddy making under 400,000 dollars which is 90% of families. the tax cuts are probably getting extended for the family under any scenario. the key thing is the tariffs and they are likely to exceed the tax cut families will get from extending the tax job. so they are probably worse off after that, -- combination of policy. host: john in michigan, independent. caller: my biggest question right now is i am a retiree and when you look at inflation at the very beginning of this year where it is now, neither candidate is talking a lot about

this but our increases depended on inflation and right now with inflation coming down, last i heard, it will be a 2.67% increase with inflation coming down more and now dropping to a low rate and now the cost of food and stuff has gone up more. if it would have been higher, we probably would've gotten more of an increase. it will definitely affect my pocketbook. i don't buy a lot or eat a lot so it might be even less but don't drive anymore i don't have car insurance. host: did you have a specific question. caller: when it comes to inflation, don't know exactly how either candidate will be able to drive down costs because

that is corporations and companies. host: which one of you would like to take that? guest: what john is describing in his own life and getting to his point is that what we want is if prices are relatively level or maybe going up a little bit, a program like social security is designed so that the value of the check goes up a little bit at the same rate. if you suddenly got prices spiking, the check has trouble catching up. it is the same thing and we want prices to come down and all the social security checks would come back down. so i think we have obviously come through a very difficult period and i think unfortunately people didn't take nearly seriously enough the impact that was going to happen somebody

like john who didn't have that kind of inflation for going forward, the solution isn't to rewind the clock. we can't do that and it wouldn't feel good if we did. the solution is to get back to the price ability so that he has a predictable budget and a predictable check that will cover it. host: david in florida, democrat. caller: i just wanted to make three points about the difference between the two candidates and policies economically. at the heart of that is harris will protect the middle class and i wanted to draw this out with the v.a., we have jd vance saying he would privatize portions of it. that is the long-term gain is privatizing parts of our economy. the tax on, companies open a window or hedge fund managers can turn income into tips.

that causes a crisis where we don't have enough money for everything we need. every time we cut taxes at the top end, it was a burden on the middle class what our income is taxed at a higher rate. the candidates are different is when you say tax on tips, harris has a policy that protects the middle class and trump does not. he injures it. with social security, the same thing and the v.a., the same thing. all the way down the line. his policies are guided by the heritage foundation and not actual policies that harris has. that is the distinction sent from here can's need to identify -- recognize. host: comments? guest: i think we can't just say we are not to have an impact raising taxes. kamala harris has endorsed tax

increases to pay for extending the trump tax cuts and the child tax credits and that is a key part and i just don't think there is any way donald trump can afford to make these premises in the has a history of promising stuff and not coming through. trump university all over again. host: oren, would you make of the economic policies of the candidates and their impact on national debt? guest: this was the point and wanted to raise is that we have talked so much about the tax side but it is important to think about the spending side also. it is good that if we have plans and we certainly need to have a way to pay for them but we are not in the position where we can just cutting. we have a $2 trillion deficit and deficits at those level as far as the eye can see and we have so much debt that we are

actually spending more paying interest on the debt this year than we will spend on our military. this is not predicting a fiscal crisis some day, we are living in the middle of the fiscal crisis. i think this is a problem for both parties but if we are going to solve this problem in this problem is at the heart of a lot of problems in our economy, we will have to find a way to raise more tax revenue and find a way to spend less than we do today. spending went up dramatically in the context of the pandemic and it has not come back down to nonpandemic levels, even though the pandemic is no longer driving much of anything. so i think one thing we find at the american compass and we do a lot of surveying and when you ask the american people do they think there is a problem and

they say absolutely. if you ask them how would you solve it? with new taxes, spending cuts, some combination, almost everybody says some combination. they realize we need both. we have this situation where in washington you have a republican party that says we will never raise any tax the democratic party that can't find any program that it is open to reducing spending on. the american people are saying, both of those positions are crazy. we would prefer to see something more serious. i don't have a lot of complimentary things to say about where either campaign is currently on a responsible fiscal plan. but i think it is an enormous need and something that it would be great to see more focus on. host: let's hear from vice president harris talking about mr. trump's economic plan. [video clip] >> donald has no plan for you,

and when you look at his plan it is hoped tax breaks for the richest people. i am offering what i described as an opportunity economy and the best economists in our country if not the world have reviewed our relative plans for the future of america. what goldman sachs has said is that donald trump's plan would make the economy worse and mine would strengthen the economy. with the wharton school has said is donald trump's plan would actually explode the deficit, steam nobel laureates have described his economic plan as something that would increase inflation and by the middle of next year would invite a recession. you just have to look at where we are and where we stand on the issues. i would invite you to know that donald trump actually has no plan for you because he is more interested in defending himself that he is in looking out for you. host: let's talk to victoria in

republican. caller: i have a russian and a comments. i am advocating for senior citizens and my question is, taxes and social security, when things were working, they paid taxes already, so isn't this double taxation? can you explain that? my next is a comment. i believe that one of the candidates with the child care tax edits, the $6,000 in the housing plus what we have seen in the past with the student loan forgiveness, tips on taxes. one of the candidates voted in with a tiebreaker for the inflation reduction act and we have seen since that policy was enforced, we have seen nothing but hurting senior citizens,

people that have already contributed to this economy. i am a senior citizen and i am retired and a military veteran. it is just a shame that people living on a budget cannot even retire in dignity. we have people here where i live who have died just from the heat because they cannot pay the electric bill. this is truly hurting everyone in america. politics need to be put aside and that care for people should come first. host: let's pick that up. guest: i think exploring how we tax social security benefits is something we can explore and figure out a way around but the idea of just getting rid of the text -- tax and letting the fund edict is dangerous for senior nuisance -- eat it is dangerous

for senior citizens. right now, the trustees of the social security program said benefits will be cut across the board by 21% because less money would be flowing into the trust fund and that 21% goes to 25% when you stop taxing social security benefits. most seniors are going to be worse off because of the reduction in benefits is far greater than the tax that most don't pay taxes on their benefits and we could have a larger discussion about what is the right way to tax pretty benefits and is a good discussion to have the same we are not going to tax them and letting benefits solution. guest: thing clip that you played on who has a plan and who doesn't have a plan. i think something that

frustrates me about the approach that i see from the harris campaign generally is that it is not clear to me with these ideas will do to actually improve the economy in a way that i think is what most people want, which is better jobs that allow them to support themselves and their families. we have a lot of plans for here is the extra grant that will take care of this and here is the extra program that is going to pay for that and here is the extra money we are going to send to everybody. if you think about what has happened in this country for going on 30 or 40 years now, the core problem we have is that we have an economy that is not creating those kinds of good middle-class jobs that actually allow somebody to support a family. when she uses a term like opportunity economy, that to mean an economy that is providing more opportunity and

more than that what people want is stability and security. in assessing economic plans, the most important place to focus is on how do we understand what is going wrong in the economy and how are we going to get better outcomes in the future. that is why a lot of these ideas around tariffs and trade and how we deal with immigration and i think education is a huge one. just forgiving everyone's student debt, i understand it is great if you have student debt that doesn't fix the education system or do anything for the majority of people who aren't going to go to college. i think we would do well to focus more on that and think about how do we actually do better than we have been doing for decades now, not just how do we mail everybody a check to make up for it. host: let's show the proposal for reducing childcare costs. mr. trump says that the

suggested tariff can help fund raising childcare costs and ms. harris says raising the child tax credit to as much as $3600 giving families of newborns $6,000 in tax credits. what do you think about that? guest: think it is a great idea. in some sense, income goes down because of that and then certainly childbirth, having to take care of the children and i think it is a great idea and from 2021 it worked really well and we need to figure out a way in the context of the texas and come up with a way. i think the $6,000 is a smart policy for families that need money and it doesn't cost that much money because only one in

the children is under one. a good way of giving families the money they need to get by. it is a good balancing of responsibility. host: norcross georgia, independent. caller: i just wanted to say a couple of things. i just wanted to make it clear so everybody understands when donald trump says he collects millions from china off of tariffs, the chinese don't pay tariffs in america, the american citizens and american corporations pay every tariff. i was just going to say, the biden-harris administration has done a lot to raise opportunity in america by passing the infrastructure built in the

chips act. with those two things, i don't think tariffs are a good idea at all. we have to lower the tax rate for wealthy folks and corporations. in the 1960's when the top marginal tax rate was 93%. that is all i had to say. host: oren cass, go ahead. guest: talked about this tariff issue a bunch at this point. it is factually incorrect that 100% of the tariff is paid by consumers. you could hypothetically have a situation where that is the case but in fact it is just a lot more complicated. some does get paid by consumers and some by companies in the middle and some by the producer. so it is also important to keep

in mind when we say american preparation. if a chinese company wants to import something into the u.s. and depends on a subsidiary to important and has to be a tariff on the import, i guess that is technically an american corporation paying an import, but i would say good but i think it is important to think about what we actually want to achieve very do we want to favor domestic manufacturing over imports? and if we do, then yes there is a cost to that but i think there is a much bigger benefit. i do want to acknowledge you mentioned the infrastructure and chips bill and they are good examples of the kinds of policies that i was 22 when i said hi wheat make the economy work better. -- that was what i was referring to when i said how do we make the economy work better. the idea of taking an industry

like semiconductors that is particularly important that we used to be the leaders in and that we can be the leaders in and saying, it is actually worth putting public investment into making that happen is really important. it has been generally encouraging to see that is something there is a lot of support for in both and i think we would see that regardless. host: cap was a direct impact from the infrastructure bill or the chips act? -- have we seen a direct impact from the infrastructure bill or chips act? guest: laughed minutes spending in the -- we have what is actually being invested in building factories or building factories for electronics. there you see skyrocketing increases in investment and with

that in the places where the factors are being built, like places in arizona, they are furthest had and you see the thousands of jobs and more importantly for the long term, you see things like more companies coming in. we are supporting the company called taiwan semiconductor to come build an american factory. other companies that work with them are also coming and building their own factories nearby. they are supporting community colleges to support people trained to work in those. unions are heavily involved in everybody saying, we need their help in developing and supplying the skilled labor for this. that kind of push for economic growth is it just looking at the banks being bigger and the people at top making more money but is creating good jobs in the middle and in a sustainable way

and those jobs create more jobs and that is the kind of growth we need more of. host: brent in georgia, republican. caller: the comment or question is asking i believe mr. casts his sort -- cass this the right leaning on this discussion. my question to him is, if you could simply discuss the disaster that would be the tax on unrealized capital gains. guest: this is an interesting issue and that if you have somebody who start a business or invest in a business, you put in $1000 and the business takes off and is worth a million dollars,

you don't pay any taxes on that initially because there is no more money in your bank account, you own company that is worth more. you think of a lot of the wealthiest people in the country and that wealth comes from investments that have gone up in value and businesses they have built, but if they haven't sold the stock and if it is still ownership of the company, we don't recognize that as income that they should pay taxes on at the time. there are the reasons for that. one is, if they don't have the cash, i would they pay the taxes? in a lot of cases, especially if it is a private business, how do you know exactly what it is worth? there is also a problem with this which is if you have a lot of the wealthiest people in the country with the most resources not paying taxes. and so there are a few proposals and i believe the harris campaign has a proposal for the

highest value, about $100 million and let's basically try to estimate what that is worth and start collecting taxes on it. i think the flip side and if you talk to tax attorneys about this sort of thing, it actually turns out to be really hard to do that well and easy to avoid it in all sorts of messy ways. my preference, i think there is something in between that would make more sense, and that is if you want to be an owner of a business and not take the money out, that is fine but a lot of people turn around and get a loan here they go to a bank and say why don't to give me money and in return if i can't pay you back, you can have the business. host: as collateral. guest: right. i get to do the spending and consumption as if they earn the income, they still don't pay

tax. you have to say, that is not how the system is supposed to work. it would be easier and fair and benefit the economy to focus on that and say if you go out and borrow money against your wealth , we will to that as income because everybody here knows that is in fact what it is. to some extent, that would collect some revenue and encourage people to be more honest and just sell a piece of the company if they need the money and i think it would be more fair for everyone. host: brendan, your take on that and harris proposal of unrealized gains. guest: he did a good job of explaining the problem. it is actually a carefully designed proposal and i think one of the key thing it tries to do is i have been paying taxes and we have the withholding system. i get wages and then they withhold some just make sure i

am settling up as i go. as he laid out, people that have those are not doing that. the proposal is a withholding system for unrealized capital gains where you pay a lower rate than what you end up paying. they have proposed 33% on capital gains, 25% rate and you would pay in installments if the value of the stock goes down and then you would get a refund. it is meant as a prepayment of taxes as you go. there are provisions for if someone owns stock in the company, you don't have to pay it right away. you have to pay it later. they tried to come up with a smart way of dealing with the problem. congress will have to work through the details but is an important part and raises $500 billion over 10 years revenue is

a big part and the reason why we have the tax system area i think developing away we can make sure we attacked the problem while raising the revenue whether reducing the deficit for making investment is an important part of that. her proposal is going to do that. host: roy and hawthorne, florida, democrat reagan -- in hawthorne, florida, democrat. caller: the biggest thing is the social security. i don't understand why the rich don't have the same opportunity to help out the elderly, the handicapped, and the people who are on social security, medicaid and medicare. the only pay on the first

$158,000 of their income. at a congressional hearing it was admitted that he makes $22 million a year and that means he pays 1000 of 1% were everybody else is paying 6.2%. if you just simply remove that cap and allow them to pay their fair share or allowed them to contribute to social security, then that problem would be solved. i would like to hear from both guests. guest: i think it's a question of how you understand what social security is. we haven't talking about the idea of a trust fund. in a lot of ways, social security is a very special element of what the government does and the idea is you pay into it and as a result when you retire get benefits back from

it. it is important to keep in mind that even if you are very low income, we have safety net programs for you but if you didn't work and earn and pay into social security, you don't get it. that is i think an important idea and helps to explain why it is so popular and has across-the-board high levels of support in this country. but what it also means is you have to keep the proportion of the whole idea is to pay and you get out. it is true that the high earners stop paying in after 150,000 dollars of income, but it is also true that they get out when the retirement is capped. you could have been a ceo your whole life and you don't get a bigger social security benefit than that person who might have been middle-class or a woman -- upper middle class worker.

so that system is a retirement system for all workers and we had the entire safety net where the high earners pay much higher tax rates and that money goes to fund benefits for people who are truly in need. you could say, we don't want to do that and we want to get rid of social security and say everybody is just paying taxes on their income and we are going to use that money for people in need. i don't think that will be as good as what we have and i don't think a lot of folks, maybe even including some of the folks that have called with concerns about social security and i don't think they will like that better. a lot of people value that idea that social security is more like a pension and that is an element of the retirement system. i think it is worth preserving. host: last comment. guest: i agree that social security is great and you pay in and take out and makes a lot of

sense. if you apply that above the payroll tax, if you make over 170 thousand dollars a year, you are paying money in and your social security checks get bigger. apply the same logic, it is a progressive system. that would help the financesit . we should apply it. host: that is brendan duke. also joining us, oren cass, chief economist of american compass. americancompass.org. thank you for joining us. we will be joined by heather hurlburt from the british think tank chatham house about what is on the agenda when british prime minister keir starmer and president biden meet in

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>> washington journal continues. host: welcome back. it is open forum. we want to hear what is on your mind when it comes to the policy or politics. we will go straight to the phones to edward in liverpool, texas. caller: hello. i was -- i have been watching c-span a lot. one thing i never hear anyone talking about is the republicans starting back with george w. bush. he started this war. he didn't actually started but we got into this war and then he wrecked the economy. obama got us out with the help of joe biden. we got back up to normal. then trump got into office. p did all kinds of weird things. he got trapped in this pandemic and he really lost it. he fired 70 people.

nobody knew what to do -- fired so many people. nobody knew what to do. everyone is talking about how slow it is to get out of the -- it cost too much for food. they don't want to talk about who put us there. two republicans and a rope but is in the ditch, wrecked the car . it's been three years to get us out of the ditch to put things back and start moving up the ladder again. you want to put another republican back in? he's not going to crash the economy? he is so -- all you need is one guy to say i don't care with these people what. i want what i want. the next thing you know, he gets a bunch of yes-men and they say we are working on it but it never gets done. trump never did anything for infrastructure or help us with health care. he never did any of those things.

he just wrecked the economy, took a lot of money. his son-in-law made a lot of money for some reason. he's got all these documents. he's not going to read them. he was going to sell them. tell me he wasn't going to sell them. he was going to sell our secrets. host: patrick in connecticut, independent. caller: good morning. how are you today? my deal is i believe the past is past. we can't change it. everyone should be happy and healthy. i have been very close to the powers that be. without getting further explanation about that, we will go to one thing that warren buffett said. basically that was, if you took .3% gdp and kept every politician to that we would basically have paid off the debt

and everybody would be nonqualified to go back into office if they could not meet that criteria. other things warren buffett said. if the top 500 companies paid their taxes, we would not have to be owing any taxes. we would be solvent. donald trump and kamala harris have yet to prove -- donald trump has proven it. i know him personally. i have met him. i know he does. he is just another tv star like reagan. thank you very much and have a good day. host: jimmy from athens, georgia. republican. caller: thank you for letting me speak. the first caller made a mistake. he said that bush did not start that war. bush did start that for.

iraq and the war in afghanistan, and his dad started the war in iraq. that is not why i'm calling. i want to start by saying one great thing trump did as president and nobody on either side is talking about it, trump expedited the vaccine that got covid to stop killing people. i would like to give trump credit for that. i'm not going to vote for him. i want to remind my republican colleagues that since this election is going to certainly be rigged, you should not bother voting for donald trump either.. you should stay home and kamala will win because of it. host: this is don in new orleans on the independent line. caller: good morning. speaking for the independents, i grew up with very successful

small businesses. we did not know they were small businesses. they were neighborhood businesses that were very successful. music to cuisine. the po boy sandwich. those are sandwiches created for what you would call the working-class. it was named after the economically poor. now a po boy's seafood, roast be, whatever is your choice. it's like $25, $30. it is no longer a po boy who get avoided. when you look at the candidate, they both come from a business perspective. donald trump has been a business owner, not a politician. if you look at vice president kamala harris, and people make an issue of she is black or indian.

you look at the wealth distribution in america we talk about the disparity between the white community having eight times the wealth of black america. when you look at the east indian and asian communities, their wealth is double that of the white americans. they are proponents of small businesses which create the real new middle class. not the wages. it is the -- what you own in a business. a small business in america is $35 million in revenue off 500 employees. what you love all to have 500 employees? what i'm proposing with vice president harris is she is promoting a more business oriented class that lifts wages and living standards. it's not predicated on

suppressing wages. you are promoting businesses. out of the two candidates, vice president harris is more pro-business than donald trump. host: i wanted to ask since you're in new orleans, you guys had some flooding yesterday. are you doing ok there? caller: we are doing fine. i live close to the river. it depends on the section you live in. i'm not giving way none of the secrets. we hope the increase in energies in investment in composite utility poles as opposed to the old wooden timber utility poles and infrastructure passed by president biden and vice president harris and a great congress would increase the investment in infrastructure that has been denied and neglected for decades since world war ii. host: here is paul in powell, ohio. democrat.

caller: yeah. mimi, i wanted to express my opinion in regards to those two guys you had on. what i'm simply saying, apparently they must have worked out the issues before you even started. not only that, i wanted to let everybody know that i was a vietnam vet. when it comes to receiving your benefits here in ohio, you ain't going to get them, what you are entitled to. you should have more people on there in regards to the vets. they should be receiving those benefits. one or other thing.

to the average person, when they come across in the united states, do they know the shackles are on the liberty? they have shackles. they closed that. the average person don't know all those people who came over from europe, they don't know that they have been -- they got shackles on the liberty at that time. host: paul mentioned the v.a. this is the military times saying jd vance would consider privatizing some v.a. services if elected. it says in an interview on wednesday he said he would

consider plans to privatize parts of the department of veterans affairs and pushed for more private health care options for patients in the system if elected this fall. that is at the military times if you want to read that. charles from arkansas, republican. caller: good morning. this is about the debate the other night. i thought the quality of questions was very poor. i have a suggestion for c-span to make up for the lack of that. you have a forum. you could put the presidential candidates on for hours before the election. maybe half a dozen hours. bring the questions, policy questions only. you can record the caller. have the candidate respond. host: we would certainly be

happy to do that if they would agree to that. they definitely have an invitation to come on and take calls and answer questions. caller: why don't you ask them? i think you and greta and pedro and john would be a lot more famous than the moderators on nbc. think of the questions that could have been asked. would you prevent iran from getting a nuclear weapon? what are you going to do about poor reading and math skills across the country in public schools? we rank very low compared to other countries. what are you going to do about the national debt? all those kinds of questions that were not asked. i think trump was trapped a lot in that. why don't we hear what they are actually going to do and see what they are made of? i thought vice president

harris's performance was really good but she just memorized a bunch of stuff. i don't know that she knows anything. host: appreciate that. james in harvey, louisiana. independent. caller: we are doing fine down here. not all of us are doing great. i wanted to say character is the most important thing. our government is made of the people. people are flawed and make mistakes. they trip and fall. it is not about the mistakes you make when you fall. it is what you do when you fail. do you waddle there and why and -- whine and cry, or do you get up and learn from it? one of the presidential candidates -- all of us lie.

both sides lie. what do you lie about and why are you doing it? this lie the mental to the first debate that somebody -- nobody seems to notice. he says the reason he ran is because he saw how bad of a job mr. biden was doing. he could have been on a beach enjoying his life but he saw how bad biden was doing so he decided to run. in december of 2019, right before -- december of 2020, he had political rallies. he had a political rally on january 6. he was running before mr. was even inaugurated -- mr. biden was even inaugurated. i don't know what's going through this man's hysteria. listen to both candidates and judge their character, because we all fail. every president has failed. host: we will be carrying a live

rally by former president trump. that will kickoff at 12:00 noon. sorry, it is are conference. it will be ahead is golf course in southosngeles county, california. that will be at 12:00 noon eastern. weill have a rally. he will be in las vegas tonight at 9:30 p.m. that starts at 9:30 p.m. in las vegas, nevada. that will be here on c-span as well as vice president harris in wilkes-barre, pennlvia. e will be speaking at 6:30 p.m. eastern. our live coverage starts at 6:30. all those even he on c-span, also honor at c-span now and online at c-span.org. if you missed any of the previous rallies you might have wanted to see or any campaign events, any of the debate, you

can see that also on c-span.org. here is loretta. cleveland, ohio. democrat. caller: good morning, mimi. good morning america. i really wanted to get in with the two guys that was on earlier . mimi, i don't know what half of america is looking at when they want to compare this economy with the trump era economy. the reason why i use that analogy is because trump demanded jerome powell and the fed give $8 trillion to $12 trillion at zero interest rates. that is why the economy was a little better when trump was in.

that's why you had a couple of extra dollars in your pocket. the other thing maybe is trump was talking about getting rid of the total department of education. no schools. what are the kids going to do all day? are they going to go to work or what? host: loretta, former president trump wants to close the department of education but turn that function to the states. it would not close the schools themselves. caller: turn it to the states. that is even worse, because we see states don't want to treat all citizens the same. that will present another problem. mainly, mimi, all these cuts,

they have not said where the money is going. are they going to pay down debt? are they going to give themselves and tax cut with our money? i'm getting sick of this tax-cut stuff, because most of the people that are getting the tax-cut money don't even pay taxes. i don't understand it. it's insane for me but i wish i had gotten in with those guys because, if trump had $12 trillion that he put out the door at zero interest rate, that means those banks and financial institutions did not make any money. guess what? they are coming back. they want their money now. that is why the interest rate rate hike. they want their money. -- interest rate went high. they want their money. host: tarrytown, new york. brian.

-- ryan, good morning. caller: i'm an army veteran. they brilliant move last night but israel moving into syria. it is a joyous day. it is a brilliant move. i'm hearing from the biden-harris white house that they were trying to deter israel from doing this. it shows absolute idiocy in my opinion. host: why you think it's a good move for israel to be in syria? caller: it's almost -- prince assad and isis turning on him under the -- obama back to people against assad. then the people turned into isis, a devilish organization. israel will get aside who sides with the russians, who are also involved in ukraine. it's complicated but i'm confident an israeli intelligence and what they did in syria last night. i think isis had control of

missile factories. they are ending that. on the border of israel with hamas, you know, it's a brilliant move. israel is being quiet about it but biden and harris were against this move. it is appallingly would be. host: here's more information on that from axios. israel destroyed reported iranian undergrad missile factory in syria ground rate. it says an elite idf unit conducted a highly unusual raid early this week it destroyed an underground precision missile factory that israel and the u.s. claim was built by iran, according to three sources briefed on the operation. it says the destruction of the factory appears to be a significant blow to an effort by iran and hezbollah to reduce precision medium-range missiles on syrian soil. let's talk to alex from south

carolina. republican. caller: good morning c-span. once again, thank you c-span radio and television for educating the world. let me get right into it. one kamala harris asked president trump about his health care plan, is the reason why president trump and house republicans want to eliminate obamacare. this is the reason why it needs to be repealed and replaced. obamacare -- major insurance companies left obamacare. i'm talking about united health care in virginia as well as aetna. they left obamacare because they wasn't making enough money to see patients as they come in the door because of obamacare.

all the african-american voters who continued voting for democrats, they failed to realize it was president trump that restored $250 million for historically black colleges and universities. he made that permanently. you don't have to go back to the government again and ask for money. listen up you black voters. you failed to realize when you have a president that cares enough for education, that's the person you want to vote for. host: alex, i was going to ask about health care. what kind of health care do you have? caller: what kind of health care i have? i'm retired. i am getting health care service from the government. host: medicare? caller: yes. host: here is michael in new

york, democrat. caller: i wanted to commend you for your fact checking this morning. i have been listening. the conspiracy theories are amazing this morning and i appreciate you pushing back on these people. the truth needs to be told. the people that are listening to fox news and newsmax are not getting the truth. they are getting what trump wants people to hear. i wanted to talk a little about this thing in ohio. i think it is despicable that trump is dividing these black haitians. they are being scared out of their homes. these are legal aliens in america working with their families. he is putting out all this news. he did it again last night at his rally where he continues to say the same thing over and over and over. he is dangerous.

he is unfit to be president. ms. harris will be a fantastic president. if the other side decides to support each other, we can have a really amazing nation. we don't have to be so divided. they did that with biden. biden wanted to bring people together but fox and billy starts on separating people, and trump. we have to come together. it is time. i really appreciate you pushing back on the conspiracy theories. host: here's attorney general merrick garland. he was defending the justice department yesterday against personal attacks against the department and its employees. [video] >> in addition to seeing how you have operated in dangers with violent crime and terrorism, i have seen how you bravely carried on in the face of an unprecedented spike in threats targeting a range of public

officials across the country. over the past three and half years, there's been an escalation of attacks on the justice department's career lawyers, agents and other personnel that go far beyond scrutiny, criticism and legitimate and necessary oversight of our work. these attacks have come in the form of conspiracy theories, dangerous falsehoods, efforts to bully and intimidate career public servants by repeatedly and publicly singling them out, and threats of actual violence. through your work you have made clear that the justice department will not be intimidated by these attacks. but it is dangerous and outrageous that you have to endure them. it is dangerous to target and intimidate individual employees of this department solely for

doing their jobs. it is outrageous that you have to face these unfounded attacks because you are doing what is right and upholding the rule of law. host: julian, tampa, florida. independently. caller: how are you doing, mimi? host: doing great. caller:-- caller: yes, to me ths not a debate, that was more like a prosecution and kamala was more like a prosecuting attorney. she never answered any questions, swept them up, put them into rebuttals on trump. when i'm looking for a debate, i'm an independent undecided voter, i'm looking for questions to be answered. when you switch it up and instead of asking questions you throw something back at the other party and you don't have to answer the questions, i blame

the moderators for that. one more thing, the stuff that they said about as far as what trump said about the justice department, if you are going to prosecute somebody, prosecute everybody. if people get away with tearing up the emails and etc., you got problems with certain news channels where we can see the bias, it shows that there is something wrong with the whole justice system, ok? that's basically all i got to say. host: as an undecided voter, what's your biggest issue? what's going to help you make up your mind? caller: the truth. trump has been in office before. i know that he knows how to run a country. when i look at kamala, i don't really see her answering any questions, so i'm kind of skeptical on that. host: all right.

judy, marion, ohio, good morning. caller: good morning, how are you today? host: doing great. thank you very much. caller: should i go on? host: yes, you should. go ahead. caller: i have a private insurance that kamala wants to get rid of. yet i have grandchildren that have families that can't even afford insurance. yet the borders are open in these people are getting all free stuff. i don't think it's very fair. you know? i have seen a lot of people struggling and then i see people who get everything free and i just can't handle that. and you know, they can knock trump all they want, but at least the border was closed? -- closed. host: all right. iris, independent. caller: good morning, hope everyone is doing well this morning. they is just so many issues, i'm

still, i'm a never trumper, i will never vote for him. he's not a character i want in the white house. i think he has good ideas as far as the economy, but other than that i have not heard anything come out of his mouth that i would vote for. kamala, i don't really know enough about her yet. i hope to learn some more about her. if not, i will write in somebody, i don't know. but i wanted to bring up the indian reservation again. i have done this before. i don't know why, explain how they work in one way, because i'd like to have somebody come on and explain to me how all this works. they get $80,000 a year, but they are federally recognized? they did social security? they open businesses, they pay

off several counties around here. i don't know what they do when they are done with them. there was a man standing in line for free groceries. i know it was an indian, gets over $80,000 a year. then there was a man standing in line for the free groceries the don't get but $1200 a month. the indians don't have to count that money. the man that got the $83,000 a year, got the free food. the man they got the $1200 a month didn't get nothing. host: i'm afraid were not going to be able to get too far into that topic because we are out of time for open forum. coming up next, we will be joined by heather hurlburt from the british think tank chatham house. we will talk about the meeting between keir starmer and president biden set to happen today in washington. we'll be right back. ♪

>> as the 2024 presidential campaign continues, a new nine part series, historic presidential elections. learn about the pivotal issues of different eras, uncover what made them historic and look at the national impac the election of 1860, this saturday, abraham lincoln defeating several other candidates, including stephen douglas, to become the first republican elected president before he took office in march of 1861. several states pulled out, leinto the civilar. watch historic presidential elections, saturdays at 7 p.m. eastern, on c-span two. >> book tv, every sunday on c-span two, featuring leading authors discussing -- discussing

their latest nonfiction books. at 5:15 p.m. eastern, wilbur ross shares his book written and returned, talking about eight decades long career on wall street and his experiences in -- on wall street in the trump administration. 6:15 p.m. eastern, dana bash looks that the louisiana gubernatorial reconstruction 1862 election and the political violence that ourred in her book, america's deadliest election. and on afterwards, former assistant u.s. attorney and law professor, kim whately, looks at the history of the pardon system, how it works, and recent challenges the system is facing. she is interviewed by richard lambert. watch live tv every sunday on c-span two and find a full scdu in your program guide or watch online anytime at book tv.org.

[gavel] >> the house will be in order. >> this year c-span celebrates 45 years of covering congress like no other. since 1979 have been your primary source for capitol hill, presenting balanced unfiltered views on government, taking you to where the policy is decided with the support of america's cable companies. c-span, 45 years and counting, powered by cable. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back, we are joined by heather hurlburt, associate fellow for u.s. in the americas at chatham house. guest: thank you for having me. host: tell us about the mission of chatham house and how it's funded. guest: it's of british global think tank, one of the world's oldest, funded by private

donors, corporations, and other european public funding. host: tell us about keir starmer. he's relatively new. tell us about his background and politics. guest: he won in a landslide in july after 12 years in a row of conservative government. he is the first person in his family to go to university. has been in british politics for a long time but started out his life, stop me if this sounds like other political candidates, as a prosecutor, worked in the law for a number of years. host: interesting. how would you characterize his politics for an american audience? guest: he starts out viewed as fairly left-wing, moving to the center and then moving the entire labor party to the center after a time where it was perceived as having lost many elections for being too far to the left. the meeting is -- host: the

meeting is set to happen today. what's the purpose of the visit? guest: it's actually his second visit with biden. the first thing he did after being elected was come here for the nato anniversary summit back in july. they will primarily being -- talk about foreign security challenges where britain is one of our most important partners, but also about economic issues. this is where britain is really hoping for u.s. help in reviving the economy. host: do we know anything about their relationship, how they get along, anything like that? guest: they don't really know each other, it's not like other world leaders where biden has known them for 10, 20, 30 years, but they seemed to hit it off really well in july and i think it is not an accident that as president biden winds down his time, this is a relationship that he wants to shore up. host: i'm going to show a short clip shortly after he won his

election. here's the u.k. prime minister visiting with president biden during that nato summit in july. [video clip] >> that special relationship is so important, forged in difficult circumstances, endured for so long, stronger now than ever. we are so pleased to recommit to nato, to recommit to this special relationship, and have the opportunity to discuss it with you. >> we are singing the same song. i kind of see you guys as the closer you are on your game, the more, we know where you are, we know where we are. the countries. host: the sound was low, but what did you take from that? guest: this vision of the u.k. as the connecting piece between

the u.s. and europe, with a foot solidly in both camps. host: the special relationship, where did that come from and what does that really mean on a day to day basis between the countries. guest: we often joke that the u.s. and the u.k. are two countries divided by a common language, but because there is so much commonality, for years they've had a super close defense relationship, sharing a huge amount of intelligence and interoperability. our economies are very similar in many ways. some of the same struggles with postindustrial communities or how we think about who is american, who is british. immigration. although of course the u.s. is much bigger and different in that respect, we have some other really fundamental commonalities. host: we will take your calls for heather hurlburt about the relationship between the u.s. in

the u.k. until the end of the program. our phone lines are by party. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. let's talk about ukraine. how supportive has the u.k. been when it comes to financial support of ukraine? guest: the u.k. has really lean forward on the defense side, per capita sending more stuff to ukraine than many other countries. it has also constantly pushed and pushed the u.s., frankly, to do more. that is some of what the visit is about today. host: about that, this headline, "key aid offered, no breakthrough on strikes into russia." any information on that? guest: it shows you how close

the relationship is, so tony blinken, our secretary of state and u.k. foreign minister went to the country together this weekend we seem to be seeing a choreography leading up to a public decision possibly being announced coming out of these white house meetings today. host: the bbc says putin draws a new redline on long-range missiles. so, this is -- it says that -- the headline is in this morning's commerce newspaper and it captured the drama of putin drawing a red line. will the west crossett? if so, how will russia respond? has there been -- obviously this is nato and the u.k. has been very involved in nato. what is going on there with the redline with putin? guest: we have seen putin over the course of the course of

ukraine war try to sort of kind of drawl redlines without ever committing himself to them and frankly mostly pull back from them. nuclear saber rattling at various points. threats. you haven't ever seen an explicit -- and this is the redline, now you have crossed it and i will respond. this is how he plays, trying to intimidate nato countries without ever committing to something that he for shoe hat -- for sure has to follow through on. host: real quick, israel hamas, will that be discussed today and is there any -- what is the difference between approaches from president biden and prime minister starmer? guest: the white house did say it would be in the statement they put out announcing the meeting. starmer has moved to the u.k. a little bit away from the u.s. position, announcing that they will stop selling some kinds of weapons to israel. they have also taken a more forward leaning approach on the

international criminal cases against both idf and hamas military actors. host: let's go to calls from barbara whittingham, vermont. independent. caller: correct. my question, my concern, starmer over the u.k., and with joe biden, they are both globalists. the illegal immigration into both countries is stirring up a lot of concerns for the citizens. over the u.k., i know that there is censorship and people are being arrested for saying anything negative against the illegal immigrants. the same thing is starting to happen here. you see it in the news reports that nothing is happening, everything's great. no, accounts are being changed because of the immigrants. we have culture. the u.k. had a culture.

now it's all being taken away. so i would like to know how you feel about that, it's connected to the globalist movement, the world economic forum, and nobody talks about it. could you talk about that, please? guest: i'm dissented from generations of proud vermont defendants -- a vermont independents myself. it's interesting but starmer's trying to do announcing the creation of a border command to try to work on managing immigration better and making sure it stays under the rule of law, but also to address your second point, really trying to lean into forming a shared culture, saying that there is a shared u.k. culture. maybe it doesn't look like how we imagine it when we think of masterpiece theatre from 150 years ago, but really leaning into the existence of a common culture, it's interesting what they are trying to do and it frankly parallels some of the

things you heard, including things like what vice president harris said in the debate about most americans wanting to be united, not divided. host: are there british censoring discussion about illegal immigration? guest: so, no, but it's also important to say the british don't have a first amendment. the government is allowed to constrict hate speech much more aggressively in the u.k. in a way that a journalist in the u.s. would find objectionable. but no, in no way is it the case that there is mass censorship. host: patty, pennsylvania, democrat. caller: thank you for taking my call. my question is -- earlier, ma'am, which thank you for being on, i'm curious your take, earlier on the program there were two guests and one of them represented -- here in the u.s.,

compass, i'm sure you're familiar. they are part of the project 2025 plan. they are a contributing organization. in fact, one of their members, jonathan barry, is one of the authors of the plan. so, when i think about you coming from that perspective, how do you see it playing out? how do you think the u.k. is preparing, if there were to be a gop takeover of the white house and a shift towards a more authoritarian type, how are you preparing for that? have you seen any discussions from the prime minister or, you know, his party on how they might be preparing for the u.s. actually shifting to a more

authoritarian rather than democratic state? guest: that's a great question. there was a lot of chatter when the man who was the foreign secretary went down and met with trump. actually, before the u.k. election. there was a lot of debate in the u.k. about whether this was or wasn't an appropriate thing to do and they said we are a government and our job is to defend the interests of our country no matter who is in charge in the u.s. and you see this around the world, governments saying ok, what are we going to do, how are we going to manage our own interests and defend our values in the event of a republican government? just the same as our government has to deal with whoever gets elected in other countries, frankly, the brits just have to sit back and think about all right, how would we manage this? host: stephen, arizona, republican, hello. caller: good morning.

it seems to me and the people i talk to on the left in the right, the people on the left that want to turn towards voting republican, that the globalization that the left in this country in the left in all the countries want to do, it doesn't seem to work. there's too many bad players. seems like when the left is in office, people like putin take advantage of it. even when obama was in office, they took over crimea with no problem at all. by the way, trump gave ukraine weapons, obama didn't. it seems like the globalization is going to work. i think that's why a lot of republicans in this country are going to go with, with the right. it just seems more problems arise when our left, currently,

when our left is in office. i mean, when trump is in office, there's no way we don't feel that gaza would have exploded and we don't feel that ukraine would have been invaded. host: stephen, regarding the u.k., though, do you have like a question or a comment related to that? caller: the u.k.? the u.k. and america has always been allies since the 20th century, you know, against nazism. i feel that chamberlain was a lot like biden and the guy who made the peace plan with iran. i just feel that the world does still need people on the right to keep things in order. peace through strength. if any of that relates? host: any comments? guest: yeah, i think it so interesting that on the one hand and the u.s. in the u.k. you

have conservative parties that include that kind of strong government strong military instinct the caller is talking about, working hand-in-hand with actual neo-nazis who are proud to be neo-nazis and harken back to exactly the forces that we think of conservatives fighting about. it's a really interesting, challenging moment. i will just maybe add to that it's interesting that again, the u.k., frankly, the tory government as well that preceded this one, european leaders, really all quietly or loudly are dreading the return of a trump presidency and not, frankly, feeling that that brand of conservatism can deliver the kind of american leadership they want. host: paul, maryland, independent, how are you? caller: good, how are you? host: good. caller: i appreciate you letting me call in today.

i was just thinking about that, with, like, especially after being -- i was in the military for 25 years, recently retired. now that i am seeing, like, a lot of the differences between the way that i was raised, you know, by the military, and doing what was good but still yet somehow it affected me, right? i can see how there is, it seems like, now more than ever, like a pretty big balance of, of people waiting to make a decision, if they will go for the right or the wrong, you know? host: ok. comment? guest: thank you for your service, first of all, and congratulations on retiring. i think it is so interesting to

look, and we are seeing it in the u.s. and elsewhere, this kind of struggle of how do we think about who is going to use the military correctly, who looks at the terms of the oath of office and said ok, i'm going to keep the use of the military within bounds and its telling, some of the conversations the u.k. is having about what they will need to do with their military if trump is reelected. those conversations are really interesting. host: regarding nato and nato spending, what are you seeing, and i know you focus mostly on the u.k., but across europe in terms of increased defense spending for those nato targets? guest: frankly, since russia invaded crimea and the continued ramp-up of russian aggression, in ukraine and more over scandinavian countries, for example, borders and other places, pretty steady growth in

military spending across europe. you now have all but two or three european countries getting close to that 2% target. the u.k., for example, talking about trying to hit 2.5%, which is unheard of in peacetime. european countries feel deeply unnerved by the aggressive actions and rhetoric of putin and his military. host: former president trump said that that is something he made a big issue and that that is why european countries have been raising more, spending more on defense. guest: it's because putin made it a big issue by invading countries and threatening other countries. it's an interesting point that the trump presidency overlaps with that. caller: good morning. i'm a millennial, 41. my question is, postelection,

will there be international or domestic concerns for english citizens? that socioeconomic life, are they successful or happy? and a personal question for you, do you have a favorite premier football league team? soccer? guest: you are going to ruin my reputation forever but i have only one choice, my brother in law is british, so it's west ham for me. host: mike, who's yours? you there, mike? maybe not. caller: yes, i am. host: i was just going to ask who you thought. caller: i'm a west ham fan. i'm very friendly, my best friend is from that part of london. i've always been a west ham fan because of that connection. host: glad you guys agree on

that. guest: we don't have to fight about that. your question about millennials and the u.k. is good one, their economic growth has really stagnated and people feel like they can't get ahead, their families can't get ahead. services are maybe not what they were hoping they were. british national health is not in great shape. like for people most places in the world, frankly, that's the number one concern for millennials and everyone else. second, as an earlier caller alluded to, there is a perception in the u.k. that there has been a lot of immigration in people are not sure how they feel about it or in some places people are hostile to it. very much as here, you see economic issues as the number one concern, with immigration, cultural, what is it mean to be british, that's the other top issue people are thinking a lot about. host: janet, aurora, illinois, we are running out of time, if you could be brief?

guest: same as before, speaking on we are having immigration mainly from the southern border. the british, europe, they are experiencing immigration from across the mediterranean, africa and other countries. why is it that so many foreign nations are immigrating to the european countries, the western countries, and what seems to be the problem? is it drugs? are they being driven out of their country by drug lords? is there some other attraction to moving into european countries that we haven't recognized yet? guest: the first thing that happened is the u.k. opened its borders and let folks come in from eastern europe, mostly to do the jobs that the british people didn't want to do and rejuvenate that economy. for britain, it's a lot of

former british colonies where people have a huge attraction to come study in those universities, live with relatives. third, migration from africa to britain is actually quite small, not as big as you would think from what you see on television, climate change causing desertification in africa, making it harder and harder to make a living and leading to conflicts over water leaves people feeling like they have no future where they are coming from. three causes that you didn't mention but i would prioritize them off the bat. host: all right, heather hurlburt, u.s. american british program at chatterton -- chatham house, thanks for being on the program. guest: great to be here. host: that's all for today's "washington journal," thanks to everyone who called in. thanks for watching. we will be back tomorrow at 7 a.m. eastern. have a great day. ♪\

[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2024] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> today on c-span, jamie raskin discusses free speech, democracy part of the georgetownction is university fe-eech project getting underway at 11 a.m. eastern. then, donald trump has a press conference at noon from his golf course in california. that is followed by another campaign event at 630 p.mwi kamala harris speaking to supporters iwies-barre, pennsylvania, and we will hear again from presidentru as he holds a rally in las vegas. that's all live on c-span. you can watch our live coverage on the free c-span now video apps or online at c-span.org.

>> discover the heartbeat of democracy with voices 2024 as we engage with voters nationwide to ask what the most important issue in this election is to you and why. >> good morning. i'm from alabama and of issue this season is the bias in the media. i feel we don't have adequate coverage of both parties. you know? we just have a very leftist media. >> my top issue is women's rights, we -- reproductive rights. three daughters, two sons, a wife. the most important thing for me is to make sure my daughters are safe, my wife is safe, every other woman is safe. i'm a big believer in not just rights, but every woman having a choice. >> i guess my top issue is the preservation of democracy and

freedom. it seems like our freedoms are being eroded. here on the national mall, the world war ii museum is right next door and people paid a heavy price for that freedom and i think that is what we need to focus on. >> our right to choose and to be in charge of our own body. big picture, better access to health care for everyone. equal playing field for all. flex my top issue in the u.s. right now is probably immigration and illegals. if we can kind of close of the border, but keep it open so that people can immigrate legally, that would be fine, but until that gets corrected i think there will be other issues extending from that and hopefully we get that corrected soon. >> c-span voices 2024, be a part of the conversation.

>> c-span is your unfiltered view of government, funded by these television companies and more, including cox. >> bringing affordable internet to families in need, new tech to boys and girls club, and support to veterans whenever d wherever it matters most. we will be there. >> cox supports c-span as a public service along with these other television from my -- providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> next, merrick garland addresses the escalation of attacks on the justice department career lawyers, agents, and other personnel, saying that the attacks come in the form of conspiracy theories and dangerous falsehoods, calling them dangerous and outrageous. his justice department work force, denouncing dangerous and outrageous attacks the agency's prosecutors and personnel.