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to campaign supporters shortly. it was originally scheduled to start around 5:45 p.m. or so. it's running a little late. we'll have live coverage when it starts here on c-span. ow is the author of the recently published land rich, cash poor, my families hope in the untold history of the disappearing american farmer. why do you say the american farmer is disappearing? guest: i stayed in part because i grew up with it pray thank you for having me on. i entire childhood i knew farms like ours getting up to work with my dad sunup to sundown we can see the farms going by the wayside around us. what i didn't understand was why. throughout the farm business journals and public policy i want to answer that question and we really try to look at that, tell the story beneath the surface of irr farms disappearing and how does that

mirror my family story. it's a very personal issue for me and we have seen we lost nearly 45,000 farms per year annually for the past century. that's not only affecting rural america but it's affecting every american, the price the food and supply, what we eat, it's a very serious issue that i hope more people care about. host: what happens to that farmland, what happens to those farmers? guest: one of the things that happens is they go bankrupt. my home state of wisconsin in the years from when my dad took over to an my sisters were coming-of-age, in those years wisconsin went from number one in milk production to number one in bankruptcies for farms so there are farms that are simply going under, families losing everything. their literal loss of farms. there also farms trying to

survive in this environment and so this a little bit of industry consolidation there. this development pressure and other things like that as other areas -- urban areas spread it takes pressure for farmers to sell and makes it harder to make a living. and their land becomes more valuable. so people are pressured over time by our economy to either grind out a living and maybe face the day where they tell their families they can make ends meet or sell their land and lose everything else because when you grow up on a farm it's not just your dad's job, it's your home, your community and your heritage. host: what's the difference in a big farm and a small farm and decide what to grow and how long it's been around. guest: the big farms trying to keep up with the big companies, and keep up with global trade so it's really difficult dilemma. the big difference is farms like

the one i grew up on 50 cows of the time when i was a kid would've been a mid range farm. now at that point it's closer to 1200 cows so it's a massive matter of scale and is also a massive matter of technology change. a lot of technology has left smaller and medium farms behind. one of the biggest differences you see is most farmers these days really specialize in one type of crop. that's true of most any form large or small. some larger ones try to diversify and find more ways to make money. one of the big differences is you see the big farms are able to make it, the medium and small farms often aren't. you have guys and women who are pulling construction shifts, working at the factory who are pouring concrete all while also operating a farm. doing those two or three jobs just to keep the supplemental

income from the farm going. host: how long has your family farm been in your family? guest: more than a century. it's a proud tradition for us. my great grandma and grandfather founded the farm. my grandpa survived the depression, climbed out of poverty and the middle class. today with my sister we will take over the farm from our dad and moving to the fourth generation. host: what was the farm crisis in the 1980's and are we in a current farm crisis? host: we have been in ongoing -- guest: we have been an ongoing farm crisis since the depression in one way or another. the 80's was a time. where farmers had their own dedicated rural suppression. it was something as devastating as any economic recession but it was confined to rural communities and farms. farms were getting bigger, this

is under the salomon leadership of both parties. government fuel debt to take on more land and try to feed our country and feed the world abroad. and as they took on that debt, suddenly we were in in -- where inflation was in control. the government also increased interest rates making that data more expensive so you have the government encouraging farms to take on large amounts of debt and making that debt overnight expensive. there were a lot of farms that went under with a lot of community that were devastated. my parents came through that time. , they dealt with sickness of the herd during that and they dealt with the economic problems. we were lucky enough through the generosity of neighbors and hard work they were able to wipe out that debt just before that happened with her sony farms that took out jet -- debt just before the crisis. host: brian rising her is the

author and he's with us to the end of our program today, phone lines split this way. , kratz, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents 202-748-8002 and then setting aside a special line for farmers in this country, would love to hear from you about your farming story, how washington legislation is impacting you. give us a call on 202-748-8003. that's a special line for farmers only on that. as folks are calling in, explain what the farm bill is and what it does every time congress passes it. guest: it's a wide array of government programs that impact pricing that attempt to impact supply and different elements of

our farm health. it is also in the much bigger way, the overwhelming majority of the farm bill is actually a wide range of government programs including snap which used to be highly known as food stamps. in any case, every five years essentially congress is supposed to pass a bill the generally ends up being bipartisan to establish our foreign cash farm policy and food policy congress is notoriously late on this, it's one of those really important bills that affects so much that is so often put behind the other crises that are government deals with. we just had a funding deal on the government and the farm bill is so often put behind priorities like that. incredibly large piece of policy that often languishes and so over time it doesn't really get reformed, it gets extended or may be tweaked but it is incredibly large piece of policy

for farmers to the food people eat across this country. host: what's an example that needs to be reformed in the farm bill right now. guest: simply the structural nature of it. one of the farmers i talked to our kind of like a fragile jango tower. whether you agree with each program or not, where the like that placement so to speak can be discussed and debated. we don't necessarily have a farm policy that works for everybody, so for example there's a lot of government subsidies that may or may not be what the consumer needs with the farmer should be pursuing her mantra. standpoint. you can find people on the left and right, outside of farming and within farming or upset about our farm policies because it's this mishmash over time.

host: this is from a pew research center report on the urban rural political divide in america. back in april but this is what it had to say about rural held a narrow lienlic and party identificatidvange over the democratic party among rural voters, six to 12% to 4 but that grew substantially over the next decade. by 2010 the gop's advantage had widened to 13 peenge points and has nearly doubled since then under public and party now holds a 25 point edge over the democratic party amongst rural voters. why is that, what's happened in the past when he four years? guest: one of the things that happened is rural americans felt left behind in our economy and farmers are not unlike rustbelt workers or coal miners except the problem goes back deeper,

goes back a century. so there were some any people in rural left behind, republicans have managed to channel that frustration and that is something that has really changed our electorate. one thing i remind people of, we do see it in the electorate, rural voters are very independent thinking people when you're out there on your own, you have a high bs meter and have to figure how do things on your own. it wasn't that long ago to your point it is a large swing and there's a very strong gop support in rural areas but it wasn't all that long ago barack obama was winning some of those areas are leased more competitive in those areas. it's an area that i think is frustrated but i think it's also an area with a lot of independent thinking people and so over time we do see these things change and right now it's moving towards the republicans. host: what scenario barack obama won this likely off the table

for rural parts of the country. >> the hills of southern wisconsin. south county is one of the most swing counties in one of most swing states in the country. and you know counties like that, southwest wisconsin that will be quite difficult for the democrats to win. i think that county might actually continue to be one of the most swing counties causes a lot of people moving in their so it's remaining swing but a lot of southwestern's constant counties absolutely western and northwestern wisconsin counties but at one time could've been picked up by barack obama or picked up by others have really swung hard for republicans. entire third congressional district used to be held by ron kind in the la crosse area now held by derrick van orden and that whole district swung dramatically. that phone line -- host: holding

aside that line for farmers, 202-748-8003. we would love to hear your farm storiesthis is gina in kentuckye for democrats. go ahead. caller: yes. i would like to ask you a question. how much local farmers are disadvantaged by large corporations taking over farms? and being able to beat the process that the little farmer cannot. and also, the disadvantage of rural farmers not being able to be connected to the websites with better technology for their farms. it has been an ongoing problem for rural areas. i would just like to know what your thoughts are. guest: absolutely. it is a great question.

and something we have in our american economy and the global economy as well but particularly we have industries across the american economy dominated by very few large players. very consolidated in the economy. there are reasons for that that relate to regulations in our country and the issue of global trade. when we pursue free trade, we are pursuing enough protections to make sure it is fair trade. the reality is across our economy, small businesses like small farmers have gone by the \ wayside. that is across our economy -- gone by the wayside. that is our economy. it creates pressure on some of the smaller farms where they are having a challenging time competing. no question about that. it contributes to some problems with our food supply. host: who are some of the large players? what are the names we would recognize? guest: large companies from tyson to smith's field, all of those types of food companies. i want to emphasize it extends

all the way out to mcdonald's and others. the entire food economy. there are other business economies. they place pressure on the smaller businesses in the food and agriculture industries and all the smaller farms, but they are also working to keep up with not only other players in the american economy but also the global economy which is why it is a global system. all of these companies are trying to survive so we have to recognize the cause of these things, and the cause is the fact that we have a situation where it is very hard for small businesses in america to get ahead. the second part of the caller's question on rule broadband is an example of one of the things we need to emphasize. there is a world where we can revitalize our rural economies and farms of all sizes can begin to thrive and the small farms can once again be growing in entrepreneurial ventures but we have systemic barriers in the way. one of them is connectivity. you have to diversify your farm.

if you will do other things that allow you to find more ways to get your products to get from the farm gate to the dinner table, you have to be able to be connected. you have to market yourself. host: on, there is a question about farm subsidies. how does subsidizing help or hurt the small farmer and the ability for startup farms? guest: yeah, this goes back to what i said about both parties having presided over a farm program that has grown and piled upon itself without ever being really reformed. the reality is there is a large amount of subsidies that steer farmers to which particular types of crops and products whether they want to do that or not. it is a proud thing in america the amount of corn and soy we are able to grow. they would like to branch off two types of specialties where you grow crops and products that can go into our specialty food markets in addition to growing the crops that go out on the

commodity markets and it oftentimes does not make economic sense so those are the things that steer us in a particular direction, and it may not necessarily line up with what the farmer ought to be pursuing from an entrepreneurial sense. it often constricts us. the reality is we have to deal with that. it is something across the spectrum people are frustrated with. the flipside is part of the reason that happened is there are uncontrollable factors like weather so i don't want to make it sound like there is zero role for government, but there is some stabilizing that makes sense given uncontrolled factors like what we need to do to have a stable food supply. we need to have a world where farmers can pursue entrepreneurial opportunity and meet the demands of consumers easily. host: this is philip in michigan. you are on with brian reisinger. caller: yeah. i told my dad i cannot handle farming.

it is too much hard work. we had 120 acres and about 30 milking cows, and i went on to work in the rv industry. currently, we rent our farm out. if you cannot handle it, go ahead and let the big guy pay you when annual fee and all you have to do is sign that check. thanks, c-span. host: brian reisinger? guest: you are talking about a very real dilemma for many farm families. we are about 100 acres picket we have 50 cows. we actually ended up selling our dairy herd for a lot of the same reasons, the economic pressures. in our case, we decided we needed to go bigger and get many more cows, probably hundreds or thousands, or we needed to sell and diversify our farms, so what we are doing is we are raising cows for other dairy herds, raising beef for consumers, trying to find a way to make it

as my sister takes over from our dad but those pressures are very real and there is a people to see the benefit in leasing that worked out to others. there isn't a lot of hardship to it and difficulty. look at my family story over the century from my grandfather surviving the great depression to my parents. there is a lot of beauty. waking up and working with your data from sunup to sundown, hearing my dad bringing the cows income of these memories that i have. it is a way of life and i know our farm listeners know that all too well. host: was one of your siblings always going to take over the farm? how did your parents feel about you going into journalism? guest: that is a great question. it is a very personal thing for farm families. my dad was always supportive, but we talked a lot in the book about the fact that at the end of the day, he wanted one of his kids to take over.

he wanted to support us and have the choices he never had but he wanted someone to take over. i found my account is not for cattle and crops and i wrestled with that and can read a lot of guilt around when you have generation on generation building, there is a lot of pride but also a lot of pressure. i felt for many years like i let my dad down and contributed to a lot of challenges but i was proud to be the first in our family to go to college but also the first in four generations to not take over. my sister ended up stepping up to take over and it is one of the things i am most grateful for. it is an incredible thing, a little modern twist. she is coming into a man's world and taking control and it has been an incredible thing to see. we never necessarily knew what would have happened after i decided i wanted to go into farm. when my sister stepped up, i know my dad was overjoyed. i am grateful for the involvement on the farm.

i help out on the business side and i'm on my tractor on the days off. there is a real dilemma for farm families across the country. who will take over next? what will you do? it is a real challenge because sometimes there are not people they are to be the successor to the older generation. host: why do you describe it as a man's world? guest: it is really interesting to ask about that because one of the things i found when i was looking into the hidden history in the book as feminism took some real steps forward from some of the strong independent women of rural america. women like not only my sister about going back to my mom, grandma, great grandma, they worked alongside the man and they did the housework so there was a paradox in that they were doing some of the traditional female roles but they were working in a way that our urban economy has not yet contemplated. when we got to world war ii and women showing the country what they can do by filling industrial jobs as soldiers went off to work, women in rural

america been doing that for decades so in many ways that was a lot of advancement of women showing what we can do in the world economy before in the urban economy but i will shifted from rural to urban and as so many farmers began to be left behind and people left farms, we lost part of our history. there are not a lot of well-known female trailblazers in farming and agriculture as there are in emea or corporate america or anything like that. we kinda forgot about that. people like my sister came up with the tradition of being raised by strong independent women teaching her she can do whatever she wanted to do and as she began to take on the farm, there were a lot of people who were surprised that a woman would want to take over. when you take that and combine it with she is the second eldest and a lot of people did not expect her to do that, a lot of people were surprised and amazed and ipo and she got a remark. host: the book is "land rich, cash poor." the author is brian reisinger.

he is with us the next 20 minutes taking your phone calls. in 20 minutes, we will be taking viewers to a national gun violence prevention event on c-span. that is where you will go after this program. this is ronald, a farmer out of georgia. good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. thanks for taking my call. i would like to ask this guy if he could give me information on how many solar panels have taken over farmland. host: solar panels is what you are asking about, ronald? caller: yes, that is correct. guest: i am aware there are a lot of states where that is something being pursued. one of the things we find is some farmers don't want to do that because they don't want land taken out of production. other farmers find they are able to continue farming because they have solar panels on their land as an additional revenue stream. they might work on one part of

their farm and have solar panels on another parts of it is something each individual landowner needs to work through. host: there is a story over the weekend in the washington post on the local section that talks about carroll county in maryland. the number of acres farmed declining in the county from 146,000 acres in 2017 to 130,000 acres in 20222, an 11.3% decrease -- 2022, an 11.3% decrease according to the data, but one of those is the popularity of building solar projects in the county. there are currently six requests to build solar facilities on farmland in carroll county. just one example of this issue of solar panels on farms. guest: yeah. it is an interesting discussion for communities to be having. in my day job, i have encountered that issue.

we worked on the solar issue and try to help with rural economic development. it comes down to what is right for individual landowners and whether they find ways they are able to pursue solar panels while perhaps having that be one revenue stream on some of their acreage while continuing in other areas the traditional craft. it is a way for some farms to keep in production and have an additional revenue stream. other farms, it is leading to removal of acreage from production. it depends on how each project is designed. host: to the keystone state, pennsylvania. dan, independent, good morning. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. host: what is your question or comment for brian reisinger? caller: i have friends of mine who have relatives that have farms and stuff like that. for instance, we had one dairy farmer who had 100 cows who had to close his door because he does not have the employees, and

what happened during covid, and a lot of people started buying goods online and a lot of these farmworker areas and stuff worked for the farm -- why work for the farm for x when you can work for amazon for $20. when they would fill these positions, they got nobody to fill these positions. chicken farming for eggs and chickens and dairy farming and hog farming are a 24/7, 365 days a year jobs. they require more than just seasonal workers. they need people to move in. i know donald trump the immigration bill. a lot of those folks at the border, they come from farm communities. we don't have to do much training to put them to work. for some reason, a friend of

mine, his brother-in-law has a chicken farmer and he will probably have to close his doors because he is an farmer and one of his customers is hershey. we see the price going up as the farms go out, and the farms that exist, we do not see their income increasing for their product, but we see it at the grocery store. so somewhere in between there is some price gouging going on and we need to address that. host: let me stop you there and let brian reisinger jump in. guest: you were talking about a lot of things there impacting farms, affecting our food supply. i want to look at all of the reasons farms disappearing, it includes areas of economic of, social trends, ways that our government reacts to farming and the ways our programs work, including technology that has advanced us but left some farms behind. you are absolutely right one of

the social factors is the lack of the workforce. from the 1940's to today, we went from a majority rural country to have 14% of our country rural. we have lost so much of our rural workforce as people moved to the city. that is a challenging thing. when you combine that with the families that don't have the next generation to take over as our firm struggled with, and there are many farms that even if they do have the next generation, they don't have the workforce they need so that is a real challenge. you also talked about the way some of these issues are affecting the food supply and i want to address that. i appreciate your question. here is the reality. as our farms disappear and our country moves to a system skewed to fewer farmers and fewer food processing and distributors and a few were all kinds of businesses that worked in our american economy, the reality is our supply chain continues to become more vulnerable.

we saw that during covid but we also see it with bird flu affecting the price of eggs, anytime there is an invasive pest or a serious weather event. it can lock up our supply chain because we don't have enough ways for the food to get from the farm to the dinner table. with food prices increasing past the rate of inflation, the reason for it is in part because of the supply chain issues. when the consumer is facing the higher prices, the farmer is usually in the same cash crunch. we will continue to see higher food prices for two reasons. one is the vulnerability with the supply chain, the short-term immediate reason. the second is our innovation in our farm sector in productivity, two things that used to be proud things, they are still happening a lot, but they are slowing. they are lagging. american innovation is slowing as we are leaving more and more

of our farms behind. because of in part the disappearance of our farms, it will continue to drive up food prices and the food supply for the whole country. host: beverly is in delaware. good morning. caller: good morning. hello? host: go ahead. you are on with brian reisinger. caller: i am a summertime farmer. i am 86, but i used to go up and work on my grandparents' farm in northern wisconsin. i visit up there every once in a while. the whole thing has deteriorated. it was a small 40 acre farm. but 20 or 30 years ago when i was up there for a visit, there were jensen bushes planted along the farmhouse. i was told the chinese liked the county because it did well. i am wondering if you heard any

of that. i don't know if they bought the farm or if it was rented or what. do you know anything? guest: yeah, absolutely. i appreciate that question. i know that area well. i used to be in that part of the state. the reality is it actually represents one of the types of crops and products in this country when you can find more entrepreneurial opportunities and more ways for more farmers to grow more specialty crops in addition to the staples they are going. i am always interested in places where people want to experiment. in the case of marilyn county and that part of wisconsin specifically, i want to be very clear. they have a different issue from the issue of concern of foreign ownership. i happen to know that in the areas of central wisconsin and maryland county and other areas

like it, there are many families that have moved over from abroad from different countries and have come here. a lot a president -- a lot of residents came here and settled in wisconsin and have been for a couple generations now growing other products like that, so there is a lot of great proud american families there growing that crop. it is an example of the kind of diversification. we can find more types of things for more farms to do more entrepreneurial activity. we can find a way to continue to supply our food industry in a way that benefits consumers. host: hannah, a farmer out of the tar heel state. good morning forget you are next. caller: good morning. good morning. i enjoy watching c-span. this is the first time i called because the subject matter struck a chord. when your guest announced a book, "land rich, cash poor," it

reminded me of the time when this farm that i live on, a family farm, majority black farmers, and we started out in 1872 with a 25 acre tract that my great-grandfather bought. and his son increased that at that time to about 1915 where he had almost 600 acres. he set aside 282 acres for his family and the rest he sold to community folks for community land. during that time, i heard that term in listening to people talk, and it talked about how there was a problem. a lot of the plantation owners here had all of this land and nobody to really work in terms of free labor, so they began to

sell it off. that was when the term came, land rich and money poor. consequently, some black people were able to buy small tracts of land. my great-grandfather had a large truck. today, it is lived on by his descendants. we have our portion, and we are keeping it and trying to sustain this farm through using the land. we have some animals on it now we did not have before. we our growing crops. we weren't tobacco farmers. the tobacco farmers switched over to something else and we >> you can finish watching this program on our website c-span.org. live now to washington where donald trump is doing a town hall.