>> let's not permit scapegoating instead of solutions or rhetoric instead of results. as your president, i will protect our nation's sovereignty, secure our border and work to fix our broken system of immigration. ♪ host: this is washington journal

for saturday, september 28. vice president kamala harris made her first trip to the u.s.-mexico border since winning the top spot on the democratic ticket. immigration has consistently ranked as one of the most important issues this campaign season. to start we want to hear your thoughts on vice president harris's visit to the border and the new proposal. here are the phone lines. democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. and independents, 202-748-8002. you can text your comments to 202-748-8003. he sure to include your name or city and you can post a question or comment on facebook at facebook.com/c-span or on x at c-spanwj. thank you for being with us.

vice president kamala harris was at theorder. this is the headline from "the washington post." she proposes new restrictions on immigration. "vice president kamala harris and her campaign proposed new border restrictions that would go further than the emergency rules that the biden administration deployed in june, making the announcement on a visit to the border friday in an effort to confront one of her biggest political vulnerabilities. here is proposed executive action -- harris' proposed executive actions would build on the policy of essentially closing off the silent system and less illegal border crossings stay below 1500 daily crossings for a week. harris would lower the threshold and extent period that it must be met although the exact figures were not immediately available. " while she was there she argued

that border patrol agents need more resources and promised that combating the flow of fentanyl would be a top priority of her presidency. as part of that effort she proposed adding new detection machines at ports of entry and said she would press the chinese government to do more to crack down on companies that make chemicals used in fentanyl." here are more of her remarks after that trip to the border yesterday in arizona. [video clip] >> as president i will not only bring back border security bill that donald trump tanked, i will do more to secure our borders. to reduce illegal border crossings, i will take further action to keep the border closed between ports of entry. those who cross our borders unlawfully will be apprehended and removed and barred from reentering for five years. we will pursue criminal charges

against violators. and if someone does not make an asylum request at a legal point of entry and instead crosses the border unlawfully they will be barred from receiving asylum. while we understand that many people are desperate to migrate to the united states, our system must be orderly and secure. and that is my goal. that is my goal. [applause] securing our border also means addressing the flood of fentanyl into our communities. it is a scorch -- scourge in our country. the nature of it is that it is highly addictive and highly lethal. so much so that zing it one time

only -- using it one time only can be fatal. i have met far too many families, parents, and loved ones who have lost a family member, a child, to fentanyl. and their grief is heartbreaking. and the devastation caused by fentanyl is being felt from rural communities to big cities. it is impacting communities across the country regardless of where they are geographically, politically or any other demographic. it is a scourge in the country and we have to take it seriously. as president i will make it a top priority to disrupt the flow of fentanyl coming into the united states. [applause] [end video clip] host: we are hearing from you this first hour on vice president kamala harris' visit to the border and her new

proposal on restrictions. we will hear from noticed in -- otis and orangeburg, florida on the democrats line. caller: good morning, i think she gave a great state -- speech. it was more substance and less bluster. in order to solve problems you are supposed to tackle it from every area so that you can stop the overflow. but she gave a great speech. the most important thing was that she identified that she is not weak when it comes to border security. her stance as attorney general, district attorney, that gives you more insight in how to deal with criminals versus someone saying what are we going to do? if there is no substance behind

the plan, you end up complaining more than solving problems. host: is immigration a campaign issue that is important to you? where does it rank on your list? caller: immigration is not a problem to me but it seems to be want to the country. it has to be a part of every day. immigration is part of our daily lives. so that issue affects every americans. but it is not in the top part of the list. it can be an issue that you need to solve. host: sarah in hawaii on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. i think the fentanyl crisis has been going on for close to 10 years and it is rather late the federal government to make statements that they are going to do something about it. this has been a crisis for years

and nobody has done anything. i think they are late in the game with this, and i consider the whole fentanyl crisis a systematic extermination of our young people in the country because this stuff has been coming in for 10 years. i remember when there were only 20,000 deaths a year to fentanyl. and it is a shame that this has been going on for as long as it has gone on. and they do need to hear the border. but i the train has left the station and the damage is already done. it is just a shame that they have waited this long. and that is all i wanted to say. thank you. host: mark in ohio on the republican line. good morning. caller: she has the biggest fraud i have ever seen did not get a single vote.

this was planned by the democratic party. the democratic party is the biggest fraud. the last 12 out of 16 years, obama has been running the country and that is a fact. biden was a puppet. if you're looking at the fentanyl and the migrants, look at the constitution, the rights of our government. it is all a game. there is nothing good about the government anymore. young men have to register for selective service while all of these illegals are in the country. what is going on? host: let us hear from cliff in oklahoma, on the independent line. good morning. caller: hello. if kamala harris could have given that speech when she first

took over the job of border czar when biden first put her on and then followed through with practicing that would have been great. but she has been border czar and in charge of the border for 3.5 years. what she is talking about now is just to get votes. and she must think that the american people are a bunch of idiots. sadly, she might be right in many cases. but i do not think it is going to be or that most of the american people are that foolish. host: we are also hearing from viewers on social media. text and tweets are coming in. this on facebook from mark murphy. "harris is a true leader, unlike trump. trump goes for the photo ops. harris goes heirs to solve problems."

this is from deb klock. "tually at least some of the ideas were in the bill from killed. it was bipartisan by the way. trump likes to run on things. he is not good at fixing anything." frankie urbain says "again e could have done this before now. th is just another meaningless photo op to fold the mormons among us that she will somehow do something when she has cleay done nothing. she will do nothin " troy, chan. "the news of all of the violent crime nurse that were allowed into our country nullified her trip completely. trump is far ahead of her on this issue." former president trump did speak about the issue yesterday during a town hall in warren, michigan. and blamed vice president kamala harris for the border security.

here are some of his remarks. [video clip] >> this has been a very interesting day. some numbers came out and let us give you the bad news first. the worst numbers i think i have ever heard. you know what i am talking about. a lot of people being released into the country that should never ever be here, right? like nobody can believe that i have been saying it for 3.5 years because we are the party of common sense and we know what is going on. coming out of jails, and murders that nobody thought possible. and it was all done by comrade kamala harris. [booing] our great borders are who is -- czar who is totally incompetent. 240,000 criminals and much more than 13,000 convicted murderers who were in jail and all released into our country and we

cannot put up with this. this is gross incompetence. let's get back to the show, ok. right? [end video clip] host: from fox news, some more detail about those figures that former president trump was talking about. ""the data from u.s. immigrations says that among those not in detention there are 425,431 convicted criminals and 222,141 with pending criminal charges. it includes 62,231 people convicted of assault, 14,301 convicted of burglary, 56,553 with drug convictions, and 13,099 addicted of homicide. an additional 2500 21 have kidnapping convictions and

15,811 have sexual assault convictions." back to your calls. we will go to paul in cornwall, new york. calling on the republican line. good morning. caller: i just want to say that maybe george clooney can recommend kamala harris for an academy award because of the stellar performance she gave. 3.5 years of being in charge to try to fix the border she has done absolutely nothing. for once i would like you folks in the media to call her out on this and to call her out on what she has not done in this country that we use up -- that she was supposed to do as a vice president of the united states. it is really pathetic. have a great day, and thank you. host: elaine in allen park, michigan. democrats line. good morning. caller: good morning to you. it is interesting how they think that kamala harris was supposed

to fix the border. no president is ever going to " fix" and it is not like there is a big gate that they will close and shut down and no more people. that is not how it works. big agriculture and the restaurant industry of this country would crater. this country would crater without immigrants. we need them and the military, there is no such thing as, --, was supposed to fix it. her job was not to fix it her job is to be the tiebreaker in the senate and she has broken more ties than any vice in history. her job is not to fix. congress is the one who fixes the border and puts a new judge is and fixes that backlog and that sort of thing. they had a bill and trump tank day. that is exactly what she said and that is what happened.

i think it is terrible that people seem to think that we are going to stop immigration. no prager -- no president ever in the history of this country has ever stopped at nor will it ever be stopped. like i said, do you think is processing your honey bank hands and your christmas and thanksgiving? it is not chad and cameron who are college kids, these are immigrants coming in that are picking the vegetables and getting everything ready so that we can achieve prices so our eggs are not $16 anymore. we need immigrants and we need more judges to process them. we need more border agents to see that they are safe. there is a reason why that we have had a lot of fentanyl cases. we have been able to stop them. during the trump years it was only like the amounts were a lot less because they were not able

to stop them. now we have so much more because we have agents to be able to stop them. host: we've got your point. richard in nashville, tennessee on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. yes. i am 68 years old and i live in nashville, tennessee. i lived here 50 years out of 68. and i have more violence in my neighborhood, which is a lower middle-class neighborhood. i finally got my home paid for and now i have investors buying property. they are basically running down the neighborhoods and they went up on my taxes 34.5%. all i have gotten out of it are bike lanes and little dog parks in the areas and not much. the traffic is terrible because we have 100 people a day moving here because we do not have an income tax in the state of

tennessee. i have lived in l.a. after college and i used to go down to tijuana and baja and go into everything. you could cross the border easily. now you do not go near the border. i have a cousin who lives two miles from the border and they do not go down there. all of the migrants coming into be day workers. some would go to central valley and they would stay there and on the weekend they go back. a friend of mine grew up in el paso and i have been to el dorado in tucson. it was never a problem. but when you have honest and good working people coming here is migrants they help build this country and i give them back. but we have criminals from other countries further away that are not even in this continent coming across the border. look at 911, remember the

saying? so, it is not about democrats and republicans. kamala harris did not do what she was supposed to because most of my family live in l.a. and san diego and they watched what she has done. so this is not new news, this is old news. the difference between the old news of people crossing the border and the new news is that we have criminals and everybody from different continents coming here other than the mexican families that used to come across from -- or into el dorado and come into the states like el paso. they would work for the day and many would go back across. and they lived good lives. and the american people would share their money and eat. but you cannot do that today. host: racquel in new jersey, also on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call.

as i have been following everything with p harris, it was a joke that she had 3.5 years to go to the border and fix it and she goes to a portion of the border where she does not see the migrants coming in. granted america is made of different types of migrants. i am a permanent resume -- resident. everything was done accordingly. we had to go in get checks and go through immigration in court. why is it that you are allowing all of these people to come in. they are illegal and criminal. i am at walmart with my four-year-old daughter and someone almost took my daughter. it is insane. why is it that she did not do something about this .5 years ago and now she wants to go to the border to show people she has there to get votes. it does not work like that and it should have been taken care of. host: led did you think about the proposals that she made

while she was down there? caller: it is a joke. she has a joke. host: ahead of vice president harris' visit to the border, her campaign released a new ad that will be airing in arizona and other battleground state on the issue of immigration. here is the ad. [video clip] >> kamala harris has never backed down from a challenge. she put cartel members and drug traffickers behind bars. and she will secure our border. here is her plan. higher size -- hire thousands of more border agents. enforce the law and step up technology and stop fentanyl smuggling and human trafficking. we need a leader with a real plan to fix the border and that is kamala harris. >> i'm kamala harris and i approve this message. [end video clip] host: former president trump and his team have been airing ads focused on the issue of immigration.

here is one of his hitting vice president harris on her immigration stance. [video clip] >> i am donald j. trump and i approve this message. >> this is america's border czar and she has failed us. over 10 million illegally here and a quarter of a million americans dead from fentanyl. and isis now here. >> do you have any plans to visit the border? >> i have not been to europe. i do not understand the point that you are making. >>, ella -- kamala harris failed. [end video clip] host: we will hear fromg ene calling on the republican line. good morning. caller: a lot of this is all scripted. the democrats have the house, the senate and the presidency in the first two years of the biden administration. they did not codify roe v. wade

because they wanted to run on it. now they are complaining because trump killed a bill when they had two years to abort a bill and they did not do it then either. they waited until it was election time and all of a sudden she is going to fix everything. they want the illegals in here to vote and to be part of their group. i don't believe half of what comes out of any of their mouths. thank you. host: mary in fort, maryland. on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to tell some of the people that like to call kamala harris a joke, number 45 is the biggest joke ever. the border, nothing will ever be

changed. i want everyone to check their last names. everyone is an immigrant. great-grandparents came from somewhere. the only natural people are the native indians. the black people are stolen, we were not immigrants. the border is used for campaigning. they had a border plan and they scrapped it because number 45 told them to. the vice president has no power. the president has the power to sign off. the congress is the one who is supposed to do this. and they have not tried to do anything. we have too many people 80 and older who are tired and do not have any boys. i believe chuck grassley is in his 90's. we do not have a progressive and strong congress and nothing will ever change. i think what is going on in gaza is a total shame. but congress is the one that is supposed to come up with a

comprehensive border plan. people are running for their lives. we are having a middle east war because of netanyahu. host: we got your point. dusty in myrtle beach, south carolina on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. the republicans are just as guilty as the democrats when it comes to this border. i can go all the way back to young bush who had the white house and the congress and he had the senate. a commentator asked paul waul -- paul ryan out in the hall of the house what you gonna do, you guys have the power of the purse, let's do something about the border are you going to do something? no, they wanted to kick the can down the road. let us quit blaming the democrats and the republican congresses. and when it comes to donald

trump, donald trump has no plans except just sending i.c.e. and all of the people back. the food that you wallow -- you all depend on will rot in the field and you think prices are high now? just wait until donald trump gets in there, it will be doubled. host: james in san diego, california on the republican line. good morning. caller: are you there? host: yes. hello. caller: my question goes like this, hr 2, immigration reform. it started in the house of representatives 3.5 years ago. the republicans and the democrats signed off on hr to, -- 2 immigration. it has been sitting on senator schumer's desk for 3.5 years.

no one in the chair that you are sitting in right now, ever refers to anyone that talks about immigration to hr 2 and what the republicans wanted to do but the democrats, and senator schumer will not bring it to the floor in the senate for anyone to discuss or go over. yes, everyone is correct, this starts in the house of representatives. and the house of road -- house of representatives democrats and republicans voted for hr to three and what -- 3.5 years ago. why is no one sitting in a chair that you are sitting in right now ever refer back to that particular document when we are talking about immigration? thank you very much. host: crystal in wilkes-barre, pennsylvania. calling on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: please give me an

opportunity to voice my opinion just like you have given all of the others. first of all, immigration is last on my list as far as who i vote for and it will not be for donald trump. the way i am looking at it is it was not one immigrant that shot up the school and is making my children hide behind desks in the school because someone came in there. it was not one immigrant who did that. it was not one immigrant who shot up a church or a movie theater. it was not even one immigrant who so shot at donald trump. not one immigrant. if you want to call them murderers and rapists, not one immigrant did that to us. not one immigrant brings fear to my heart every day that i have to walk into school and go into work and we have to have two or

three drills a month about hiding behind a cabinet. that was not one immigrant who did that. they are not -- and i listen to donald trump's speech when the girl asked him about michigan jobs and he said how he was mad at michigan. this is an idiot that people are voting for. and i am not going to vote with the racists nor will i vote for a racist. that is the way i feel. donald trump is a no. i would rather have an immigrant live next to me every day of the week before i live next to them. thank you, and have a good day. host: wayne in harrisburg, pennsylvania independent line. good morning. caller: hello, my name is wayne, the lady who just spoke said everything i wanted to say. listen here, the vice president just gave her that spot.

that does not mean that they put her fully in charge. when the boss gives you a position, you take it. gives you a position, you take it. and in congress and in the senate, they call the shots. we talk about, they've got so many criminals coming here. what about all of the criminals in the united states? like that lady said. the immigrants, the crime comes from the united states, people in the united states. i don't know why than white people -- what them white people are talking about. immigrants are not taking jobs. nobody has ever stopped me from

working. it is all up to the individual. i don't care about a democrat, republican. i'm an independent. i was a democrat. i changed. but this mess, i don't want to vote for anybody, and 25 thousand dollars, i heard the lady say that at the end, when you leave the house, they want the money back. is that true? host: i wanted to share in news note with you on a different topic following what is happening in the middle east, from "the washington post," the leader of hezbollah was the target of a strike by israel. what it said was the group's central headquarters in beirut on friday according to a person familiar with information provided by israel, the united

states, after the attack, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, to discuss sensitive matters. the writer says, divide remains unclear, divided by the scale of the attack across much of lebanon in recent weeks, flattened at least two buildings. the blast could be seen and felt from afar as plumes of smoke were sent over neighborhoods. israel launched more strikes into early saturday, attacking targets in the bekaa valley and beirut's south, telling residents and part of the city to the back way. more on vice president kamala harris's visit to the

u.s.-mexico border and the proposed restrictions. we go next to rob in missouri, calling on the republican line. good morning, rob. caller: this is rich. i want to respond to a couple of callers, if you will give me a second. go to ice.gov, and they will give you a list, they have articles about illegal immigrants who committed murder in the country. there's an article here on cnn about two undocumented men that killed a 12-year-old girl back in january down in houston. these people calling in saying that nobody has been hurt or harmed by illegals, that is just not true. it is all over the news. host: the article you are reading, does it specifically state that the murderers and the charges against them have been here in the u.s.? caller: yeah.

it did. said two undocumented venezuelans. host: other than that, when you are citing all of the murders. caller: well, you know, there are different ones. some are in the u.s., some are not. but, you know, these people that say all the crimes are being committed by u.s. citizens, the good lord, look at kamala's record as a prosecutor. she gave to a lot of them, the illegals. it's misinformation when you say the stuff is not happening, because it is. another caller set her only job was to break the tie in the senate. well, biden gave her, just like anybody else in his cabinet, he gave her a job, and her

responsibility was to oversee the border problem, and she has been an abject failure at that. i would not think anybody would think she is not. all she had to do was break a tie in the senate, then she is holy responsible for the inflation we've got, and i want to say one other thing. i do agree with one if you democrat callers about the republicans being partly responsible. they have had control of the purse strings for the last two years, and all they've done is, like she said, kicked the can down the road with these continuing resolutions. another caller talked about hr to. they could have attached hr 2 to a continuing resolution. the republicans in congress are partly to blame for this, too.

it is not holy the democrats, but i the executive level, i think it is, and that is where vice president harris is trying to get promoted. host: kamala harris was at the border last night, and during her remarks in arizona, she had former president trump for rejecting that bipartisan immigration deal. a couple of callers have brought that up this morning. here's that clip from last night. [video clip] vp harris: i strongly supported the comprehensive border security bill, written last year, written last year, as you know, by a bipartisan group of senators, including one of the most conservative members of the united states congress. that bill would have hired one thousand five hundred more border agents and officers. it would have paid for 100 inspection machines to detect fentanyl that is killing tens of thousands of americans every

year. it would have allowed us to more quickly and effectively remove those who come here illegally, and it would have increased the number of immigration judges and asylum officers. it was the strongest border security bill we have seen in decades. it was endorsed by the border patrol union, and it should be in effect today, producing results in real time right now for our country. [applause] but donald trump tanked it. he picked up the phone and called some friends in congress and said, "stop the bill," because, you see, he prefers to run on a problem instead of fixing a problem. [applause] and the american people deserve a president who cares more about

border security than playing political games and their personal political future. [cheers & applause] and so even though donald trump tried to sabotage the border security bill, it is my pledge to you that as president of the united states, i will bring it back up and proudly sign it into law. [cheers & applause] host: let's hear from roseanne in san diego, calling on the line for democrats. good morning, roseann. caller: good morning. i have a couple of comments i want to make using my time here. one thing, and first of all, there is no such thing as a border czar in the united states of america. that is a talking point the republicans made up. there is no border czar. second, kamala harris has never

been that so-called border czar. she was never at the top to take care of the border, she was given the task to work with countries in central america to see what could be done to stop the people from fleeing those countries and coming to america. that is what she was asked to do. she was not asked to do anything about the border. third, kamala harris is the vice president. the vice president has no executive authority whatsoever, so she can't do anything about anything even if she wanted to, and she certainly cannot do anything about the border! the last thing i'm going to say is i'm sick of people calling human illegals. with what is going on in america right now, we do not need toxic rhetoric that is incorrect and volatile. call them people, because that

is what they are. host: roseann, you are pretty close to the border where you are in san diego. what does integration look like in your area where you are? caller: there is actually no problem here, because people here or not so crazy about, you know, people of color coming from south of the border. they are not all mexicans, like trump says they are, they are mostly from central america. they get here, they worked, nobody says anything. what is happening in san diego is not the same thing as what people are talking about when they talk about crime. people here are pretty laid back, they are not racist, there's a huge segment of hispanics here, because the rest of america was settled by mexicans, and we don't have the problem that people in the

midwest and the northeast claim are happening in portions of the country. host: let's hear from ken in wisconsin on the independent line. good morning, ken. caller: yes. thank you for taking my call. i am an independent, because both republicans and the chamber of commerce and the democrats, you know, trying to get new citizens in here to vote, because their ideas are so extreme, out of the mainstream. nobody is going to vote for them in this country. there's over 300,000 kids that are missing, that have been sex trafficked since biden and harris have been in office. and these people come i don't know if this last caller, this is a perfect example of the delusion that goes on out there. go back and watch the video tape. she was called the border czar by joe biden. that last caller, "she was never called the border czar."

15 million people have gotten into this country illegally now. and in ohio, they have 20,000 illegal people, and it is costing people an arm and a leg, because they are using up all of the resources, the veterans, the homeless, the veterans have to wait in line they have to sleep in the streets while the illegals use the hotels. new york's eric adams come if you don't believe me, now he is indicted of a crime. host: let's hear from alan in michigan on the republican line. good morning, alan. caller: yeah. it amazes me how short american people's memories are. they keep blaming the democrats for this border crisis. we have the numbers, how many people have come across the

border, just like now. go back to when obama was president, 400,000 illegals across the border under him. this problem exploded when donald trump changed the policy, and it has gotten much worse since then. so this problem is donald trump's. he is the one who killed the funding that brought the drug lords into south america, so these people have no place to go now. he is responsible for this. and the other thing, they keep talking about immigrant crime. well, i don't know what the numbers are -- there's crime all over the world. but american people who go overseas commit more crimes than immigrants do here. immigrants don't commit more crime. they are afraid to. donald trump is the reason we have this problem that has exploded.

he did it. host: that was alan in michigan. former president trump earlier this week on thursday, during a press conference in new york city, he spoke about immigration there and vice president kamala harris'handling of immigration. this is something that a lot of callers have brought today. here are some of trump's comments on vice president harris and immigration. [video clip] mr. trump: for nearly four years, we have been living through the worst border crisis in the history of the world. there has never been anything like it. which has brought untold suffering, misery, and death among our land. the architect of this destruction is kamala harris. when you look at the four years that have taken place after being named border czar, kamala

will be visiting the southern border that she has completely destroyed, from what i understand, tomorrow. why would she go to the border now, playing right into the hands of her opponent? i mean, you take a look at this, why would you do that? there should be no justification for what she has done. there's nobody saying, "oh, gee, she has done a fabulous job." she has done the worst job in the history of probably any border, not just our border. she keeps talking about how she supposedly wants to fix the border. we would merely ask, why didn't she do it for years ago? it is a simple question. with everything she talks about, borders, taxes, all these different things, her policies, in fact, by the way, or terrible.

but, why didn't she fix it almost four years ago? she's got no plans, she's got no talents, she's got no ability to do it. host: i was former president trump in new york on thursday -- that was former president trump in new york on thursday. i want to give you an update on hurricane helene, from the associated press. hurricane helene left in the enormous path of destruction across florida and the southeastern u.s. on friday, killing at least 44 people, snap snapping towering oaks like twigs, and destroying homes. rescue crews faced people from floodwaters. among those killed work three firefighters, a woman and her one with old twins, and an 89-year-old woman whose house was struck by a falling tree, according to an associated press tally, the deaths occurred in florida, georgia, north carolina, south carolina, and virginia.

the category four hurricane knocked out power to some hospitals in southern georgia, and governor brian kemp said authorities had to use chainsaws to clear debris and open up roads. the storm had maximum sustained winds of 140 miles per hour when it made landfall late thursday in a sparsely populated region of florida. we will go back to your calls. we will hear next from rick in birmingham, alabama, calling on the line for democrats. good morning morning, rick. caller: good morning. how are you doing? i want to agree with alan in michigan. this immigration problem, trump started it back in 2016 when he ran, when he came down the escalator. the main thing he wants to run on, immigration. so the immigration situation

every day since he has been president, former president, and the same thing now, he's just "immigration, immigration, immigration," that is all he talks about every day. so he created this problem. now he wants to blame kamala harris for the problem. she was never the czar. i disagree with that dataset. she was never the czar. she cannot fix this immigration problem. it has been going on too long. can't one person in this world fix this problem. there is no way. anyone with common sense would understand this immigration problem is not going to be fixed in four years, is not going to be fixed in magically one day. kamala cannot magically fix it. . she could not have fixed it four years ago. so i don't understand why these people can't see that, but you constantly get people calling in everyday saying kamala harris

caused the problem. she did not fix the problem. that is stupidity. come on. host: let's hear from jake in scranton, pennsylvania on the independent line. good morning, jake. caller: yes, hello. thank you for taking my call. first off, i would like to say i am a former democrat, and i am absolutely appalled at what is going on here in this country lately. living in scranton, pennsylvania, this is joe biden's town, for start. everybody is just, you know, blind as far as, you know, giving their trust into the democratic machine here, with joe running the country. is he running the country right now? and also, kamala, what could she possibly do to help this country? i mean, you don't hear from her.

she has no plan as far as how to fix the border, how to fix the middle east. everybody, you know, is going to war. we have ukraine, russia, i mean, you go to the grocery store, go and try to fill your vehicle up with gas, and you can't get any further in life than we did five years ago. host: jake, you are an independent. you say you are a former democrat, independent now. where does immigration rank for you in terms of issues? caller: i would say number one or number two, because you have the economy, you have, you know, security for our country. i mean, we are, you know, if you are not standing with israel, i mean, it is a shame. but i could also see, you know,

trump has a big mouth. i'm not happy about him, either. but, i mean, my vote will come ultimately, if it comes down to it, i will be voting for trump. i'm not happy about it, but how could you vote for the democratic party today? it's absolutely insane. and people are just thank you for taking my call. -- and people are just, you know, they have their blindfolds on come and they will vote for the old family values, and vote democrat, vote for democratic people, and that is it. anyways, just my two cents, and as far as roseann from california, unbelievable. because you know what, roseanne? don't you think that people coming and should be vented? wouldn't you like to have a safe country coming in, you know, like people coming in from different countries and stuff? i don't know.

it just bothers me. but thank you. thanks for taking my call. host: steve in indianapolis, calling on the line for democrats. good morning, steve. caller: good morning. first of all, i'd like to say to the guy that was just on, i am a 73-year-old marine, and i have never been afraid of an immigrant. i am more afraid of a white man in this country than i am immigrants coming across the border. i have never been threatened by an immigrant. i have been directed by whites just for being -- i have been threatened by whites just for being black. trump, what about four years,, kamala had been charge? well, what about trump? he had four years to be president. what did he do to solve the problem at the border? nothing.

he tried to close the border, but the supreme court told him, you cannot do that. so i'm saying to trump supporters out there, screw your head back on, clown. host: faye in alabama on the republican line. caller: first of all, it is a nasty day in alabama. it is drizzly, and it is probably donald trump's fault, if that is the way you look at things. i have some important things to say. first of all, yes, they are immigrants, and yes, they are illegal, and yes, until one of your children is killed by them and raped, and illegal drugs, yes, you will stand with kamala.

next of all, i'm tired of people saying, the immigrants need this and they need that. let me tell you something, the thing is alabama and everyone else is suffering while they are handling all of illegals everything free. so don't give me your junk. and second of all, abortion, let's talk about abortion. abortion is murder. second of all, parents and grandparents need to teach their children what causes pregnancy. host: let me let you go, so we can stay on the topic of immigration. we only have a few minutes left. let's hear from darlene in new jersey on the infinite line. good morning, darling. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i would like to say a few things as far as immigration. i agree with the lady from alabama and the gentleman from

p.a., the last caller. immigration, illegals should not be here. i challenge roseann in california when she says oh, she does not like the word "illegal." well, what does it mean? we all know. you speak to the challenge of a lost loved one to the hands of an illegal and see how they feel and what they have to say about it. yes, american citizens commit crimes, but do we really need them coming into the country? they should be vetted. my ancestors came from europe, and i support coming into this great country of ours, but do it the right way. and the gentleman who said oh no, kamala harris is not the border czar, actually, it was roseann from california, well, you know what ? she feels that was not her title and her only job was to go to south america and deal with the

leaders, then she failed miserably. failed miserably. so take it down a bit. and the gentleman, nice, not name-calling, like we need to go there. it's a shame, because the country is so divided, we are really in a state of trouble, and should pull together better. there are pros and cons, but i really do not feel that kamala harris, they have enough of what it takes to do the president of this wonderful country. donald trump is rough around the edges, but i know my life was more for field in 20220 than 2024. i don't faye come if you speak

to someone, that they can say, it was bad during that time, but i do know in the last four years how hard it has been. the lady from alabama, we are handling illegals everything. there are people like myself i need help. that is it. i just feel and hope and pray that we can all come together and find a good resolution to all the problems, and i do support -- host: let's hear from yvette in alabama on the line for democrats. good morning, yvette. caller: good morning. i am yvette from dale ville, alabama, and i'm calling for the reason of harris, vp harris, and from trump, all the way back to the other presidents.

i feel like it's all their faults when it comes to the border. nobody did anything. trump took money to build a wall , but that did not stop them from coming in, and that is what he's going to do again, take everybody's money. and like the other caller from alabama, they are taking everything, giving it to the immigrants. how do you think the blacks feel, when trump is going to take everything from everybody and give it to the billionaires. let them have everything. we feel like we was brought here through the border, because we don't get anything. and we tried to stop everything. we gave him a chance.

why not give harris a chance? host: time for one more call, here is eli in albany, new york on the republican line. caller: hi, i'm calling from albany, new york. i believe in america first, not america last. i believe in legal immigration, not illegal immigration. and hundreds of billions of dollars of our tax dollars are being wasted on people that should not even be in this country. and kamala harris, she was in charge who she was the border czar, she was responsible for this. biden and her, she is part of the biden administration that let in 20 million illegals invade our country. they are not just coming in the southern border, they are coming in the northern border. physical and illegals are flooding our country. -- fentanyl and illegal are

flooding our country. every day on the news you hear of gangs, rapists, this is wrong. trump has to win. america first, not america last. host: that was the light in new york. that was our first hour. next on "washington journal," we will be joined by save our states executive director trent england and eastern kentucky university history professor carolyn dupont, both authors of books about the electoral college, and they will join us to discuss the use of the system in u.s. presidentiallections. later, and lodriguez murray will dcuss the findings of a report looking at the economic impact of historically black colleges and universities. we will be right back. >> as the 2024 presidential campaign continues, american

history tv presents its series historic presidential elections. learn about the pivotal issues of different eras, what made these elections historic and their lasting impact on the nation. 1912, in a four-person race teddy roosevelt ran for his old job under the banner of the progressive or bull-moose party. he split the republican party with incumbent william howard taft to defeat woodrow wilson in the white house. watch historic presidential elec on american history tv on c-span 2. book tv every sunday on c-span 2 features leading authors discussing their latest nonftion books. 7:30 p.m. eastern from our about book podcast, we talk to an ap book editor about nonfiction titles coming out this fall.

8:00 p.m. eastern, justice jackson chronicles her life and career, becoming the first black woman appointed to the u.s. supreme court with her book "lovely one." on after words, the rise of far-right latino voters and what it means for america. she is interviewed by jennifer medina. watch book tv every sunday on c-span 2 and find a full schedule in your program guide or watch any time on booktv.org. >> he said we shouldn't allow weapons are used in war on american streets. tim walz, when were you ever in war? what was this weapon you carried into war given you abandoned your unit right before they went to iraq and he has not spent a day in a combat zone? >> jd vance got called out for

telling hurtful lies about immigrants. they asked him if he didn't mean it? he said, i mean it. i'm willing to spread stories to spread fear to drum up support for us. >> watch the vice presidential debate simulcast live on c-span as tim walz and jd vance take the debate stage and go head-to-head for the first time. coverage begins with a preview at 8:00 p.m. eastern followed by the debate at 9:00 p.m. the cbs news vice presidential debate simulcast live tuesday on c-span. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. >> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us to discuss the electoral college and presidential election are carolyn dupont, a history professor with eastern kentucky university, and trent england,

the founder and executive director of save our states. welcome, both of you. thank you for being with us. carolyn, you are the author of a book called distorting democracy, the forgotten history of the electoral college and why it matters today. remind our audience what the literal college is and what you -- what the electoral college is. guest: the electoral college was created in 1787 and it was originally designed to be essentially a proxy election, where in states that allowed voters could choose someone who was wise and knowledgeable about potential candidates for the presidency and the decision for that vote would be given to the elector. we've been using the system ever since the first presidential

election in 1789. i think what is often forgotten, and what my book lays out, is the system has been massaged by party operators and some innocent changes over time. what we have today is not anything like what the framers created. it's not accurate to talk about using the electoral college created by the framers, because we don't do what they originally laid out. while i do understand the impulse to hold our constitution in high regard, i think we need to have a clear-i'd conversation about what the system is today. it has become an algorithm. that is how we choose our president. i am happy to be having this conversation. host: trent, you are the author of a book, "why we must defend

the electoral college." how would you summarize the argument to keep using it? or how it is used today? guest: the electoral college really has remained the same since pretty much 1804. even if you go back to 1796, it may not work exactly the way that the founders thought about it in 1787, but quickly they were the people who created in practice the system we use today. setting that aside, because some old things are worth keeping around and others are not, the electoral college functions as a two-step democratic process. most major democracies around the world use a system like that. most are parliamentary, but very few use a direct national popular vote because of the instability, fragmentation, political interview that can result from that.

-- political entropy that can result from that. germany and india have copied our electoral college system 70 years ago when they wrote new constitutions. they don't work exactly the same way, but they have a version of the electoral college. our system is not an outlier. it has become the model for a couple. guest: if i could respond. i guess i would begin by saying, in fact, we are an outlier. 65 of 125 democracies across the world elect their chief executive directly. i think that the comparison with

germany is not appropriate. what trent is talking about is how they elect their president who is really not the head of government. the president of germany is more ceremonial. it is the chancellor of germany who has real executive power. i don't think you can compare the type of system the united states has with parliamentary systems. that is apples and oranges. moreover, i would say that if you look historically, countries that have tried an electoral college, like the south american republic, have abandoned it. they wrote electoral college's into their first constitution, but abandoned them over the course of the 20th century. france tried an electoral college for one election cycle and then decided that it wasn't appropriate.

in my home state of kentucky, and our first constitution we had an electoral college choosing our governor. when we rewrote the constitution eight years later we ditched the electoral college. i would say the opposite of what trent just said is true. in fact, the united states, in using an indirect election system, is an outlier in the world. moreover, i would challenge the notion that this is simply a two-step democratic process. it, in fact, is an algorithm. it is two steps, but what we have is a situation where our ballot and rhetoric does not reflect what actually happens. when we check the box by a candidate's name in november, we are actually voting for the elector's pledge to that

candidate in our state. that is kind of invisible. those of us who don't vote with the majority party in our state of course will not be represented in the real presidential election in december when the electric's -- the elector's cast their votes. the electors no longer have a choice. this is one of the big changes in the electoral college. we can see alexander hamilton described it in federalist 68. he talked about the electors needing to have wisdom, needing to have discernment, and convened to make a choice. they no longer make a choice because state law binds them to vote for the candidate of the party they represent. they really don't have a choice. it is a mathematical algorithm rather than a truly democratic process.

host: i will ask a question, trent. carolyn laid out some of the arguments, some of the challenges we are facing presently. why shouldn't the process be based solely on a popular vote? something carolyn mentioned, someone who is not with one of the major parties, their vote doesn't count? your response? guest: people's votes count. if you vote for governor and your candidate loses, your vote still counts. if you vote for senator and your candidate loses, your vote still counts. if you vote for your state's presidential electors and the other slate of presidential electors wins, your vote still counts. it is a nonsense argument to say that you are not represented. the same is true when you vote for member of congress and maybe that member of congress wins but

is in the minority so they don't have a say on who the speaker is or committee chairs are. we have lots of two-step democratic processes. this is just descriptive, not my opinion. it is a two-step democratic process. we elect slates of electors in our state. if they don't put those names on the ballot, some states do and some don't, if states don't do that they are doing their citizens a disservice because they do operate this in the background when that's not necessary. we have a democratic election in our state where we choose presidential electors. they cast their vote in a democratic election for president and vice president. it's very much, very obviously a two-step democratic process. the fact is, when you list all those countries around the world and say all these countries have direct democratic elections for their executive, what she is not

telling you is it is mostly small countries. there are a lot of small countries around the world. some of these are tiny island nations. they are smaller than a midsized american city in some cases. you look at the major countries around the world, most of them are parliamentary. which is another two-step democratic process. they divide their powers so they typically have a monarch, but they have a prime minister who runs the government. that is the closest equivalent they have to an executive. they are chosen by the legislature. the rough draft of our constitution it would have been congress choosing the president. the rough draft of the constitution would have had us have a parliamentary system. the electoral college was created for better separation of powers and checks and balances. it was modeled on the parliamentary system. it is

understanding. people make accusations about the electoral college but you look at canada and in the last two canadian elections the party that has won more popular votes has not been the party that has chosen the prime minister because they didn't win the most seats in parliament. it is a two-step election it is a two-step election. . the electoral college is comparable to all of the systems, and most major democracies around the world don't use a national popular vote because it allows politics to become fragmented, become regional. it creates a lot of risk. france has experienced a lot of this. they have a direct democratic election in two rounds. a lot of french voters have found the process is not as democratic as they would like. i think our electoral college serves us very well. host: we are talking with our guests, carolyn dupont and trent

england, about the use of the electoral college in our presidential election. if you have a question or a comment, you can start calling in now. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. carolyn, question for you. if we got rid of the electoral college would we go to a direct voting system? is there another alternative? would it require a constitutional amendment? guest: yes, it would require a constitutional amendment to change the electoral college to alter its operation or abolish it. most americans are very confused by the electoral college. i wanted to say that the practice of not having the electors names on the ballots

adds to that confusion. very, very few states include electors on the ballot. it is a confusing process, and i think that there's not a good reason not to have a national popular vote. the idea that the electoral college is simply a two-step democratic process, like the election for governor in the state for the election for senator, is really -- that is not an apt comparison/ what happens in two-step elections for governor, senator, or congressman is in the primary the candidates is -- the field of candidates is narrowed. electoral colleges, the field of voters is narrowed. trent knows this because i've seen him say it many times.

the real election, let's be clear, happens in december when the electors give their votes. what happens on november 5 is each state chooses its slate of electors. then the voters who didn't vote with the majority party are not represented in that election in december. the other thing that i want to point out is, this is one of the big changes that has happened over the course of our history. many americans assume that the winner take all system used by 48 states is in the constitution, that it was in the design for the electoral college. it absolutely was not. matt talked later about they had something a little different in -- madison talked later they had something a little different in mind. the system is exactly what the framers created.

it is changed beyond recognition by the second part of the century. that is not my opinion. that is the view of a very vigorous reform movement that sought to alter the electoral college in those decades. by 1822, a constitutional amendment had passed the senate five times. it would have alter the operations of the electoral college. i want to be clear, some of the champions of these amendments were men who had participated in the constitutional convention, and the designing of the electoral college, which incidentally was designed by a committee of 11 men in the final days of the constitutional convention. one of them said, the election of a president is no longer that

process which the constitution contemplated. the men who designed this were telling us, and the second decade of the 19th century, that we were not doing what they had contemplated, what they had conceived. it has gone on to more further since 1816 since rufus king spoke those words. we need to be very clear-eyed that we are doing something different than what the framers created. host: we have callers waiting to talk with you both. al in waterton, tennessee on the independent line. caller: thank you very much. this historian from kentucky talks about how things changed historically. the signers of the constitution didn't plan on the welfare state. 66 million people in america are on welfare.

we spent almost $3 trillion a year on welfare. what is incompatible with the welfare state is, number one, the electoral college and, number two, the open border. when you have 70 people in places like chicago, l.a., houston, miami, you can go down the list. you can come to the microphone as a candidate and say, the calculator says that the country is bankrupt and we cannot continue this road. vote for me and i will fix the finances in this country. you will not get elected. that is why these people want to erase the electoral college. the people on welfare, they know they will vote for them. and you can't have an open border with the welfare state. why do you think all these people are coming over -- host: we will get a response from our guests. carolyn? guest: i guess i'm a little

flummoxed as to how to respond to that. i think those are not related questions. host: we will go to our next caller. leonard in south carolina on the line for democrats. good morning, leonard. caller: my question is four things. the census, does it count as it makes for states to have electors in the electoral college, democrat and republican. and also during election night, is there a percentage of popular votes that sway their electors. guest: those are good questions, because they get to some of the misunderstandings that happen around the electoral college.

one of the really important things to keep in mind is that these electoral votes -- often we skip over the process. we talk about voting in november, a state electoral votes, electors are people, real people elected to office. when you dig into the details in the same way that your state governor, secretary of state are elected to office, they get certificates of election. the official paperwork that says, you have been elected to office by the people of your state. you are nominated by political parties. state republicans, democrats, libertarians, or greens. they have a slate of people who are nominees to be your state presidential electors. when people vote in november, we are literally electing a state of presidential electors,

publicans or democrats. then there slate would be elected. they would go on to cast your state's electoral vote. which is why the question of electors has always been a red herring. if the republicans win your state and republican presidential electors are chosen, they are almost certain to vote for the republican nominee. same with the democrats. what matters on election night, or whenever your state eventually reports election results, is which party has gotten the most votes in your state? that will determine the presidential electors chosen for your state who will go on to cast those electoral votes in december. host: let's hear from mark in pennsylvania on the republican line. good morning, mark. caller: thanks for taking my call.

what i got to say is, the democrats talked about getting rid of the electoral college and using the majority vote. why don't we use a map of the united states, county by county, to elect the president? it would be like a 3-1 victory for the conservatives every time. most people live in rural america and think less government is the best government. the big cities are a mess. completely different values in rural america. new york city, philly, chicago, l.a., other cities make their whole state liberal. we in the countryside have to deal with their problems on natural resources, money, like natural gas, most goes to the cities. at least here in pennsylvania. i just like to leave it the way

it is for the electoral college. host: carolyn? guest: yes, this is a good time to maybe put up the national map i shared with you previously. this is a county by county depiction of how americans vote. i think what the caller is saying is the electoral college -- it really distorts the way that americans vote. if viewers look at that county by county map, a good place to start is what we regard as blue california. you can see a lot of red in california. in fact, many americans are surprised to know, donald trump in 2020 got more votes from california than any other state. in fact, donald trump got 6

million californians to cast their ballots for donald trump. those 6 million californians had no representation in the electoral college because the real election was in december and the 54 electors from california cast votes for joe biden. 6 million americans is a lot of people to simply cast out, discard their vote. if you actually put up the map of california where i show how it looks on a typical electoral college map, and i believe i sent one from 2020 so it shows 55 electors. california will have 54 and the 2024 election. then you see the county election map. you see a lot of red. you see some of those counties

where republicans dominated. the caller is right. if it were a county by county election it would change. all that demonstrates is the fact that the electoral college is an algorithm and it matters how you do the order of operations in a math problem where you put the parentheses. the third map of california shows a precinct-level depiction of how californians vote. there is a great deal of red. there are many red precincts in california. i think what we have is a country with a great deal of political diversity within every state. the electoral college does not, as it operates now, does not allow that political diversity to be fully expressed in the vote for president. i want to remind listeners

again, this is not the system that the framers created. it has changed dramatically. maybe we can put up the last map while we are doing that. south carolina, we had a caller from south carolina, and you can see south carolina. all of the votes typically for a long time, all of the electoral votes go to the republicans. if you look at a county map of south carolina, there are a lot of counties that go for the democratic candidate. if you look at the precinct map, and i realize it is a little hard to read, but that is because it shows so much political diversity. that is what i think americans want. we want a system that reflects our political diversity and we can know we are properly

represented and have a real voice. host: our next caller is ryan from honolulu on the independent line. good morning, ryan. caller: aloha, hello. thank you for holding this discussion. like most americans and more voters, i am still confused by the electoral college. my simplest explanation for the electoral college is that the popular vote informs the electors how to vote. my question to you to is -- i hope you find this question a bit fun. if you told for the last time explain the electoral college, what would your answer be? i will listen off the air. mahalo. host: trent first and then carolyn. guest: the simplest way to think about it is, a two-step

democratic election. we vote in our state. we choose our state's presidential electors. our presidential electors cast votes on behalf of our state president and vice president. the places to look in the constitution to see where this is sketched out his article one section two at the beginning. it is modified a little by the 12th amendment, which was ratified in 1804. i want to respond to carolyn. she keeps saying that this process has radically changed. it functions basically the same as it has since 1796, the election between thomas jefferson and john adams. many states since then have moved to winner take all. that began in the 1800s because thomas jefferson realized if a couple of states had been winner take all he would have beat atoms in 1796 as he did in 1800.

1796, 1800, 1804, the electoral college may not work the way that some founders at the convention thought that it would and basically did when it elected george washington twice, but since george washington the electoral college has basically worked the same way it does today. host: carolyn? guest: well, so, it is not my view that the electoral college has changed. it was the view of the men who created it. i just want to reiterate that. james madison supported an amendment to change the operation of the electoral college. thomas jefferson, not a participant in the constitutional convention, supported an amendment that he said would effectually put the election in the hands of the people. a change, he said, would help him live in more confidence and die in more hope.

he was advocating for a district election system. jefferson wrote a letter and explained, essentially, that he thought district elections were better than winner take all. the change trent is referencing was pursued so he could become elected in 1900. -- in 1800. alexander hamilton in 1802 says that there is a great deal of opening for disorder and convulsion in the electoral college. he also supported a constitutional amendment. we can talk about chief justice john marshall, who never cast a vote for president again once his estate went to winner take all -- state went to winner take all. americans have known for a long time. i'm only naming a few well-known names, but it was a very salient

concern, and very often repeated by americans early in the 19th century that the system had changed. it has only gone on to change more since then. to what the caller asked, he is reflecting a confusion that many americans also have. i get asked this all the time. americans don't understand what happens when they vote. i think that problem right there ought to be a process that is fully transparent. it simply is not. i will say one other thing. trent referenced article 2 section 1, i'm sure that he just misspoke. i'm sure that if articles look -- if listeners look at article 2 section 1, they will scratch their heads because it is not exactly what we do.

host: matthew in michigan on the line for democrats. caller: good morning. is it true each elector does not represent the same number of people? in other words, in wyoming they may represent -- in a smaller state they may represent 30,000 people but in bigger states like california one elector will represent 50,000 people? so, your votes are not actually valued the same in different states? i will let the two people talk about it. thank you. host: trent? guest: the electoral college is based on the exact same map as congress. so, while big states have more members of the electoral college and electoral votes, small states are still -- the fewest electors you can have is 3. wyoming has three because they have one member of the house and two members of the senate.

california has 54 because it has 52 members of the u.s. house and two members of the senate. california has a lot more. it is true because of the senators the small states get a little bump in the electoral college. you look at california versus wyoming, those numbers can look fairly large, but the reality is the big states still have a lot more power in the electoral college. host: so -- guest: so, yes. what this caller is leading to is the problem at the heart of the electoral college. that's that americans, when we show up to vote, we don't show up with equal power. case in point, every person in wyoming, for example, will vote for three electors. they may not see that on their ballot, but they will vote for

three electors. every voter in california will vote for 54 electors. so, as an individual, that is how the distribution of electors goes. it doesn't matter how many people turn out. they still get, each voter, the same number of electors. there is the idea that the electoral college advantages the small states, but in fact it is hard to say who it advantages. each wyoming voter only gets 3 electors. that is a fraction of what each voter in california gets. moreover, i want to remind people that if you don't vote with the party in your state that wins, of course, you get no electors in the electoral college. no one will have to vote on your behalf in december.

host: something that trent mentioned earlier was the change when states went from -- when they changed to a winner take all system. two states still do not award -- they split their electoral votes. maine and nebraska. how does splitting votes impact elections in those states? guest: that is really important and underscores the fact that this is an algorithm. it matters how you divide the votes in your state. this was really the point of contention early in the history of the american republic where states were doing this switching all the time, because they knew it was for person advantage. -- partisan advantage. if you chose electors in districts, which is what nebraska and maine do, what that does is give an elector two potential political minorities within the state.

winner th -- winner take all completely obliterates the voice of the political minority in the state. some defenders will say that it maximizes the power of the state, but i think that it's more accurate to say that it maximizes the power of the dominant political party in the state. we just seen a little kerfuffle in nebraska over potentially changing their system from the district system to winner take all. i think that only underscores how the system is really open to partisan manipulation. it was incredibly common in the first four or so decades of the american republic, the switching back and forth. even sometimes the state legislatures would take the choice away from the people. they would even do that sometimes at the last minute. so, this flexibility that is

afforded by the constitution for states to decide how the electors will be chosen has been a point of partisan manipulation. host: trent, we have heard arguments that the electoral college can benefit maybe a party or an area or state. what about the idea that it benefits only a certain number of certain states? we are seeing swing states and those are the ones that people are paying attention to, because versus the entire u.s.. what is your reaction to that? guest: any kind of large election, the candidates and campaigns have posters, strategists, they slice and dice the electorate and decide who they will focus on and who they will ignore because they are

already decided one way or the other or are unlikely to vote. with the electoral college this is pulled out across time. if you have a state where the majority of the voters are already really excited about the democratic party or republican party, then those states that basically already made up their mind as, you get closer to election day the focus shifts to the places where the states are more evenly balanced. what you have when you have political parties and presidential campaigns doing, is looking for states where they are slightly behind and trying to go into the states and persuade voters so they become slightly ahead and they can win in those states. those are the swing states. this is beneficial in several ways. it is one of the reasons why back in the 20th century, when there was another debate over

whether we should get rid of the electoral college, you had a flood of civil rights groups and civil rights leaders defending the electoral college. one of the things that they recognized is the swing state of fact means that the political parties wind up looking for relatively narrow voting blocks. we have seen a lot of talk about black men, hispanic men, we saw a lot of talk in 2020 but white women being an important block in the selection -- in this election. there has been talk about muslim americans in this election, for example. these parties looking for these slivers of an advantage in swing states. what it does is amplify the voices of minority americans. the focus might be on muslim americans in michigan, because michigan is a swing state, but

that is good for muslim americans across the country. there is the focus when you go back to the 19th century that might been -- might have been on german and irish immigrants in northern cities that they had to win to become a national political party. but that was good for immigrants across the country, for catholics across the country. giving them a greater voice and presidential politics. it also means when you look at concerns people have about elections, whether you are transparent enough, fair, if the votes are being counted accurately, the electoral college turns our states into the equivalent of watertight components on a water liner. if you have concerns in a particular state, they could be addressed in that state. they don't spillover and sink the national election. in these ways it serves the

interest of the american people. host: this question coming in from text. allen in hawaii says, how about the national popular vote and state tax. can you explain what that is? guest: this is an effort to ensure that the winner of the national popular vote, the choice of most americans, actually occupies the white house. as a side note i want to say, most americans believe the cho ice of most americans ought to occupy the white house. the situation we've had in the last 25 years where the person who doesn't gain the confidence of most americans, the loser of the popular vote, occupies the white house in 2000 and 2016,

that was not something the framers were trying to create an avenue for that to happen. they talked about the possibility of that happening and said it was a bad thing. that it would undermine the confidence of most americans. the mechanism that allows that is the algorithm that the electoral college has become. it is not what the framers had in mind. because we have had seven times in american history when a constitutional amendment to alter or abolish the electoral college has passed one house of congress, and a few times almost succeeded in the other, because of that effort i think it's been very frustrating. there has been an effort to try to alter it in another way. that is each state would pledge

to give their electors to the winner of the national popular vote. that would create a national popular vote without amending the constitution. this is something that trent and i will agree on. this is not the best strategy. i, on the one hand, like with those folks are doing because they are calling attention to the real problem that the electoral college creates in our elections and the fact that it is undermining confidence in our elections. it addresses the problem of the electoral college but is probably not an ideal solution. the ideal solution would be what happened in 1969. a constitutional amendment abolishing the electoral college passed the house of representatives with 83% of representatives voting for it and 81% of americans supporting it. i wanted to say, i hope we will

have time to talk about -- there is a little bit of misinformation there that trent put out there. he is suggesting that black americans have benefited from the electoral college and they have not. it was segregation in the senate led by strom thurmond to filibuster 1969 amendment. they knew that the electoral college, at least in the south, did not allow black americans' vote to matter in the presidential elections. so, yeah. thank you. guest: the whole effort to abolish the electoral college in that time period started in the 1950's. it was racist democrat members of congress who said explicitly, and we know this because jfk was in the united states senate at the time, the junior senator for

massachusetts in the late 1950's, and he called them out. they said if we could only get rid of the electoral college then we wouldn't have to pay attention to -- in their words, blacks, jews, and organize the work -- organize labor. that is what they had to wind be competitive in elections. people like jfk and bernie jordan of the urban league, leaders of civil rights groups who went to bat defending the electoral college. you can cherry pick and say, well, there was a bad member of the u.s. senate was on their side, sure. like all politics you have strange bedfellows, but it is exceptionally dishonest to claim that the only defenders of the electoral college were segregationists when the people who started that movement in the 1950's were racists who wanted to abolish the electoral college

for racist purposes. guest: if i could respond, trent is confusing two different efforts to alter the electoral college. there was the amendment in 1950 which passed the senate but not the house. then the 1969 effort to abolish the electoral college. i want to be very, very clear that the electoral college was always an instrument that the south used -- and he is absolutely right, it is white racists who at the time were represented by democrats. in the south it was one party white ruled. they understood that the electoral college gave them outsized power. one white supremacist -- writes a book referring to the

solidly white democratic south. the book said that white southerners should fight for the electoral college because it helps them prevent the progress of civil rights. what had happened between the late 1950's and 1969 there are huge advances on civil rights in this country. it is a fundamentally different movement in 1969 than what had been put forth in 1950. i want to note that one of the things that the electoral college enabled the south to do was punch above its weight because black americans were -- the south got electors for its population of black americans but they were not allowed to vote. the southern democrats sort of held northern democrats hostage, particularly presidents like fdr. held them hostage.

they couldn't do anything positive regarding civil rights, not even to support a federal antilynching bill. when the southern democrats -- in 1948 they called it an electoral college fight to save the south. they wanted to use the electoral college to keep their outsized power in presidential elections. i tell that story in the seventh chapter of my book. guest: the civil rights leaders defending the electoral college in the 1970's, all i'm saying is, i don't like the cherry picking of historical evidence. you had some southerners who thought that the electoral college hurt their interests. others thought that abolishing the electoral college would serve their racist interest. you had civil rights leaders in the 1950's through the 1970's,

the late 1970's defending the electoral college as benefiting black and other racial minority voters. it's important. i am not an academic, i am an advocate, but it's important for everyone to acknowledge that there is a lot of evidence that there is not an easy narrative when you have people on both sides, although it makes it easy to cherry pick. host: we have time for one more call. keith in indiana on the republican line. caller: good morning. i have one comment on the electoral college. in my opinion, it makes every state's vote count. if we didn't have the electoral college, a handful of states could determine the president every time. that's why i think it needs to stay in place. my question is, how many total electoral members are there? i know that it takes 270 to be

president, but how many total do we have? my last comment is, i find it amazing that they know exactly what the framers were thinking. thank you. guest: it is a great observation that the electoral college really does help americans' voices to be heard. i think that's absolutely true, especially the way that the electoral college system has come to work today. the question about how many electors there are. yeah, it takes 270 to win. that is based on the fact that there are 435 members of the house and 100 members of the senate, and washington dc gets three electoral votes. 538. you can find this in the constitution. it does help americans have a voice in presidential elections at the same time as making sure

we have checks and balances that prevent us from winding up in a situation like france, which is the only country out there that i think is somewhat comparable to the united states that uses a national popular vote. they wind up with this system, and have been several recent elections, where people are voting on candidates who are not very popular in the last round of their election. they have a multi-round election. you end up with hundreds of thousands of french voters submitting blank ballots in protest because they feel the direct system doesn't allow their voices to be heard. i think our system, when you look at major democracies around the world, actually does very well. that is why it has been the model for a couple of recent constitutions. host: carolyn? guest: trent is right. 538 electors.

i think the idea that a few states will dominate the election without the electoral college, i think it's important to know that with the electoral college 12 states could decide the election. if you look at the 12 largest states, they have enough electors to decide the selection. -- this election. the idea that it gives the states of voice, it only gives the political party who dominates in the state a voice. anyone who doesn't vote with the majority doesn't get a voice in the presidential election. i think it's important to remember that. california could not dominate in a national popular vote in the same way that it actually can dominate with the electoral college. if you win california, you are 20% of the way to winning under the electoral college. because californians vote in diverse ways, that would

actually allow all-americans -- if we all showed up to vote with our votes exactly equal. this is the real reason i support abolishing the electoral college. i think that equality is an important value that almost all americans embrace. there is really, at present, an underpinning our elections not of value that we all share. it is a confusing, distorting algorithm. i think that we can all appreciate that equality matters. i want the same equality or a person who votes like me as for a person who doesn't vote like me. that is what we would have if we had a national popular vote. host: our guests, carolyn dupont, author of distorting democracy: the forgotten history of the electoral college and why it matters today. and trent england, the author of why we must defend the electoral college.

thank you for joining us and for this discussion. guest: thank you. guest: thank you so much for having me. host: still had this morning, the uncf senior vice president lodriguez murray will join us to discuss the findings of a new report looking at theconomic impacts of historically black colleges and universities. first, more of you during our open forum. you can call now. the lines are democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. we will be right back. ♪ >> attention, middle and high school students across america. it is time to make your voice heard.

c-span's student cam documentary contest 2025 is here come your chance to create a documentary that can inspire change, raise awareness, and make an impact. your documentary should answer, your message to the president did what issue is the most important to you or your community. whether you are passionate about politics, the environment, or community stories, studentcam is your platform to share your message with the world with $100,000 in prizes, including a grand prize of $5,000. this is your opportunity to not only make an impact, but be rewarded for your creativity and hard work. enter your submissions today. visit studentcam.org for details on how to enter. the deadline is january 20, 2025. >> he said we shouldn't allow weapons that i used in war to be on american streets.

i wonder, tim walz, when were you ever in war? what was this weapon that you carried into war given that you abandoned your unit right before they went to iraq and he has not spent a day in a combat zone? >> senator vance got called out by that about telling vicious, hurtful lies about immigrants. they asked if it was an accident and he didn't mean it. he said no. i'm willing to create stories to spread fear to drum up support for us. >> watch the cbs news vice presidential debate simulcast tuesday on c-span's minnesota governor tim walz and ohio senator jd vance go head-to-head for the first time. coverage begins with a preview show at 8:00 p.m. eastern followed by the debate at 9:00 p.m. the cbs news vice presidential debate simulcast live tuesday on c-span. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics.

>> c-span now is the free mobile app featuring your unfiltered view of what is happening in washington, live and on-demand. keep up with the days events with live streams of floor proceedings and hearings from the u.s. congress, white house events, the court, campaigns, and more from the world of politics at your fingertips. you can stay current with the latest episodes of "washington journal" and find scheduling information for c-span tv network and radio plus a variety of compelling podcasts. c-span now is available in the apple store and google play. scan the qr code to download it for free today or visit c-span.org/c-spannow. your front row seat to washington anytime, anywhere. >> continues. host: we're in open forum and will hear from you in a few

minutes but wanted to update you from "the washington post." it says hezbollah confirmed the death of its leader after the israeli defense forces hit what they called hezbollah's headquarter with a massive strike that leveled several residential buildings in the southern suburbs of beirut. in a statement, the military group said nasrallah had joined his martyred companion and led hezbollah for 30 years, and "the post" first addressed the death on social media and wrote, nasrallah will no longer be able to terrorize the world. he had been a target of earlier attacks according to a person earlier of information provided by israel to the united states after the friday attack, says a

source. and the situation in the middle east has been ongoing and ramped up. benjamin netanyahu spoke yesterday and here are some of his remarks. [video] benjamin: it made this once special institution contemptible. but for the palestinians, this house of darkness is home court and know that in this swamp of anti-semitic vile there's an automatic majority willing to demonize the jewish state and everything. this anti-israel flat earth society, any charge or

outlandish allegation can muster a majority. in the past decade there's been more resolutions passed against israel this fall at the u.s. general assembly than against the entire world combined. actually, more than twice as many since 2014, this body condemned israel 174 times. it's condemned all the other countries in the world 73 times. that's more than 100 extra condemnations for the jewish state. what hypocrisy, what a double standard. what a joke. [cheers and applause] host: and we are hearing from you. we'll hear from kyle in clear water, florida, on the line for democrats. good morning, kyle. caller: good morning. i'd like to continue the conversation on the immigration challenges. i think most people understand

that this is a multidecade problem where the failure has obviously been with congress because it requires a supermajority to get change and we haven't had that since the reagan era. also, when it comes to the bipartisan solutions, it's been trump that's reneged on one deal and prevented the last deal from moving forward. the question i have for people that support trump's immigration plans, do they have any real understanding of if he does win, he is not going to get any democratic votes and not get a supermajority. so there will be no immigration reform, and there will just be these executive orders that really don't deal with the brunt of the problem. just like to hear people talk more about the complexity of the problem. there are no easy solutions, and

it does require us to kind of come together on some basic pinnacles where we can attack the problems that put us most at risk. appreciate it. host: joe in alabama calling on the republican line. good morning, joe. caller: good morning. i was wondering how i could get one of your coffee cups? host: you can go to our website, c-span.org and scroll to the bottom, there's a shop, you can click on that and there's all kinds of c-span merchandise. caller: thank you. host: laura in dale, texas, calling on the independent line. good morning, laura. caller: i wanted to thank c-span for hosting this discussion about the electoral college. i truly believe most people don't understand why the electoral college exists.

it has to do with the way our electoral system is set up. you have to balance states' rights with federal rights. this is about calling for the dismantling of the electoral college and completely misses the root cause of the problem. the electoral college does need to be reformed, absolutely. and i support going to a populating the college, not by hand-picked party representatives but by the district winners in an election. those people need to be the heart of the electoral college because they directly represent the people of those districts that they have won. whenever i hear for somebody calling to demolish a part of our electoral system, they're doing it because they think they

can gain power by it. i'm disheartened by a way that we continue to call for the dismantling of the electoral college, but on the other hand, we need to talk about it, but we need to talk about it with the respect to root cause analysis and not addressing the symptoms. so thank you for giving me a chance to express my views and hope everybody has a good day because a lot of people aren't today. host: steve in oakridge, tennessee. calling on the line for democrats. good morning, steve. caller: hi, good morning. you know, i find it kind of interesting, i'm 75 years old and my whole life the vice president has been pretty much the head of the senate and that was it but all of a sudden now

kamala is running everything in the country. i find that interesting. trump tasked mike pence with two things that i can remember. one was to handle the pandemic, and then he got on tv, trump did, every day, and talked and talked, so i don't see how mike had any say-so in that, and if he did, then i guess we can blame one million dead americans on him but don't think that's the case. also, other things that trump gave mike pence to do was overturn the election, and thank god he didn't do that. so i just find it interesting how kamala, everything wrong in the world today is because she was vice president. and that's all i've got to say. i can say that people in the

east tennessee and northeastern part of tennessee are in a world of hurt. the cities up there were under water from the storm. and it's had a terrible effect on east tennessee and western north carolina, and those people are going to need help. thank you so much. host: that was steve from tennessee. this headline from this morning's "wall street journal," d.o.j. ties iranian to hack the trump campaign says the justice department. the justice department unsealed criminal charges friday against 3-ironian operatives suspected of hacking donald trump's campaign and disseminating stolen information to the media and efforts to undermine the former president's election prospects, in a 37-page indictment, prosecutors alleged members of iran's revolutionary guard were involved in a wide

range operation that targeted officials. in may operatives began targeting the personal accounts of trump's campaign officials and found success after accessing emails and other campaign documents, the three sought to weaponnize materials by leaking them to the news media the indictment said. yesterday, the attorney general merrick garland issued a statement about those charges. here are some of his comments. [video] mr. garland: there are few actors that pose as much destruction to the united states as iran. iran's maligned activities are wide-ranging. the u.s. government is intensely tracking iran's lethal plotting against current and former u.s. government officials, including former president trump. we are working to investigate and disrupt iran's funding in support of hamas, hezbollah, and other terrorist groups and we are working relentlessly to

uncover and counter iran's efforts to stroke discord, to undermine confidence in our democratic constitution and to influence our elections. host: let's hear from rick from wheeling, west virginia, calling from the republican line. good morning, rick. caller: what i have to discuss has strong bipartisan support. i'm a fan of elon musk and his mars lander. with regard to that vehicle, jennifer l.hyman and other scientists authored a paper entitled "accelerating mars and the lunar science through space x star ship missions." and it discusses the characteristics of the star ship that it has a large cadence of flights in a short amount of time and a payload capacity of a

couple hundred,000 pounds. and it makes a statement in the paper and i'm going to quote from it and think it's extremely important, quote, an additional benefit of the increased cadence and capacity for robotic flights to the moon and mars offered bizarre ship will be the ability to extend the opportunity for flight mission participation through a broader cross section of the planetary science and exploration and technologic communities. over the past 15 years, women have been less than 25% of the science community but comprised less than 15% of planetary science teams compared with 51% of the general population. plaque and hispanic people make up 13% and 16% of u.s. respectively but comprise 1% of the nation's planetary scientists. nasa has made great strides in recent years to promote increased diversity within the planetary science community. as an example, the expectation of diverse and exclusive team for the latest round of new

frontier mission proposals, in addition to numerous additional initiatives. the increased cadence of star ship flights, lower cost for instrument deployment and less need to extreme engineering optimization will provide even more opportunities for nasa to continue its commitment to enable more people and a broader segment of the community to contribute to space flight missions as well as to provide exceptional opportunities for public engagement of these planetary space flight missions. that's one of the main reasons i support elon musk and development of his star ship. host: why is this issue important to you? caller: why is it important to me? it's very important and goes back to what president kennedy once said many years ago, the conquest of space deserves the best of all mankind. we need to allow all our citizens to participate as fully as possible in space exploration it's an extremely important concept and may hold the future

to our key on earth as president kennedy once said. i just think it's important that all the people in our country, whatever their color, race, whatever, gain a greater opportunity to participate in it. that's how i view it and why i think it's very important. host: that was rick. let's hear from greg in tampa, florida, on the independent line. good morning, greg. caller: good morning. how are you doing this morning? host: doing great. caller: good. i'm calling to comment on the electoral college. i think that there is a major piece of the electoral college that people don't consider when arguing for and against it. the electoral college exists for one reason and one reason only. it was the only effective way to get everybody together to elect a president with the technology at the time. that's it.

there is no need for the electoral college now. we ought to be doing popular vote and that way every vote counts and not just the votes of a couple states. host: greg, you're calling on the independent line, does that factor into it the fact you're an independent? caller: it doesn't. what factors into it is the fact that it should be part of the understanding of the constitution, one person, one vote. not five states equals one president. host: that was greg, let's hear from randy from michigan calling on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. i'd like to start by thanking you and all the other men and women it takes to bring us this great program. you're doing the nation a great service. my comment is on the border. and it seems to be certain

people in the united states that have genned up this outrage the way the border is handled, yet those same folks have no problem with mass shootings in schools and not doing nothing about that and they will say nothing about that except our thoughts and prayers go out to the families. so i really think they're genned up outrage over the southern border smells a lot of what comes out of a bowl looking north because they don't want to take care of problems that affect more than just one or two americans. thank you very much for my time. have a great day. host: anthony in port washington, maryland, calling on the republican line. good morning, anthony. caller: good morning. i want to make a comment regarding the discussion on the electoral college. i believe it functions precisely

the way the founders intended, and the reason that is is because both commentators pointed out as fact the way the electoral college works, and their arguments could be used to support either abolishing it or supporting it. of course, the one commentator stated, it does eliminate the laws of political diversity. a lot of that gets eliminated. her example being with california, there are a lot of areas in california that are republican but california is regarded as a solid democratic state. that's the way the founders intended. they wanted to eliminate a lot of the political diversity because their interest was in stability, continuity and the emergence of a consensus, and without it, they felt the country could deteriorate into a civil war. and that is one of the reasons

why, you know, supporters of the electoral college wants to maintain it because it provides additional power to the smaller states. and that's pretty much my comment. thank you for having me. host: that was anthony. dave in bedford, new hampshire, calling on the independent line. good morning, dave. caller: yes, hello. i'm calling about the voter i.d. i just went and had my son, he got his license and everything. we went there and there's a lot of, i would say, immigrants there getting their license. now, when you go over here, you've got to show your license. now, a license does not make you a citizen. so how are we going to do that? if you're a citizen, there should be an x or a mark on our driver's license. i'm for voter i.d. there's no way out of it. thank you very much.

host: that was dave in new hampshire. this headline in this morning's "washington post," trump meets with zelenskyy, opening new chapter in a fraught relationship. the article says the meeting was their first since 2019, and it comes in the final stages of the u.s. presidential race and has put a spotlight on partisan divisions over the war. after the meeting ended, trump predicted a very fair and rather rapid deal to the end of the war if he wins in norv but did -- in november but did not give details. while president biden and harris sought support for zelenskyy but trump and his running mate j.d. vance expressed deep criticism about the aid to ukraine and the

former president said russia's invasion never would have happened if he were still president and has repeatedly expressed admiration for putin, calling some of his strategic decisions savvy and genius. the article said that friday's meeting lasted 40 minutes according to a person familiar with the matter. yesterday president trump spoke to the press before that meeting. here are some of his comments. [video] mr. trump: look, this is a meeting and we have a big race going on right now. i guess 37 days left, and we're leading in the polls so we'll see how it all works out. hopefully it works out. but if it does we'll have to work very much with both parties to try and get this settled and get it worked out. it has to end at some point. it has to end. he's going through hell. his country has gone through hell like few countries have ever -- like it's happened anywhere.

nobody has ever seen anything like it. it's a terrible situation. i will say, i had a great relationship. it was very honorably -- i don't know you know this but when they did the impeachment, it was a democratic hoax. and we won. the reason we won so easily, it was over a phone call with the president and he said he could have grandstanded and played cute but he didn't do that. he said president trump did absolutely nothing wrong. he said it loud and clear. and the impeachment hoax died right there. he could have said, well, i don't know, i don't know. and i never told you this to be honest, but he was like a piece of steel. he said president trump did nothing wrong. we had a very nice call, he congratulated me on his victory, he'd just won, and i remember that. he could have played cute and he

didn't play cute. so i appreciated that. so we have a very good relationship. and also, a very good relationship, as you know, with president putin. and i think if we win, we're going to get it resolved very quickly. i really think we will. mr. zelenskyy: more with relations. mr. trump: it takes two to tango, you know. we'll have a good meeting today. and i think the fact that we're even together today is a very good sign. and hopefully we'll have a good victory because the other side wins, i don't think you'll have victories with anything, to be honest with you. we're going to sit down and just discuss it. and if we have a win, i think long before january 20th, before i take the presidency january 20th, but long before that, i think we can work out something that's good for both. it's time.

by the way, the president knows that, too. he wants to get something done. he doesn't want to do this. we look forward -- i look forward to being with him. host: d a couple programming notes for you, also. ceresidential nominee -- republican vice-presidential nominee, j.d. vance is going to speak with voters this afternoon at a town hall in monroe, pennsylvania. you can watch that live at 1:00 p.m. eastern on-sn, c-span now, and our free mobile radio app. and also on tuesday, you can wa the cbs news ce-presidential debate simulcast live on c-span, minnesota governor tim walz and ohio sen.d. vance are going to take the debate stage ando head to head for the first time. c-span's live coverage with a preview show at 8:00 p.m. eastern followed by the debate simulcast at 9:00 p.m. you can also find tn

c-span, our free mobile app now, c-span now, or online at c-span.org. and according to the "usa today," they have a article discussing the debate rules saying the microphones for both the candidates will remain on. but cbs news will reserve the right to turn off the candidates' microphones if the moderators find it necessary. you may remember the microphones were turned off for the presidential debate last month. we'll go back to the phones. marty in sleeve port, louisiana -- -- shrevep port, louisiana. go ahead.

caller: i'm appalled, i saw the candidate on the republican side talking about all the president candidate talked about was weapons of war and how vance was saying how our governor, our candidate, never went to the theater of war, how can he talk about weapons of war? i was a college all american and i was playing football and the next time i was in an army camp. the first time i got a machine gun and shot the machine gun, my life was forever changed. to see the damage, what one of those things do. but i'm also appalled how they disrespect us as military veterans. all of us didn't serve in a combat theater but our training was of such that it was just as mind-boggling. so i just wish they'd lay off

veterans the way they do and do more for us. thank you very much. host: that was marty. let's hear from mike in virginia calling on the independent line. good morning, mike. caller: good morning, ma'am. i'm an immigrant in america, been here 25 years. i've lived in other countries and decided to live here and raise my kids here because this is one of the best countries in the world. and i'm very saddened to see the oppose live education of -- the prolification of immigrants and if you look at the crime in texas, it's 200 crimes are done by natural born citizens and only 100 crimes done by undocumented immigrants. and fewer by documented

immigrants. and we immigrants love this country as much as anybody else. and it's very sad to see the division. and definitely the popular vote is a good option, but the people from the smaller states lose their voices and might create more division in america. so there needs to be a better way forward and hopefully in future elections we'll have better rhetoric and better topics discussed. host: that was mike. and our last call for this segment, becky in granite falls, north carolina, on the republican line. good morning, becky. caller: good morning. i was just wondering how they're going to stop the interference

in the elections, and i want to know how we can do something about these elections that are being cheated and stolen from our nominees. there's so much hatred and just bitterness between the republicans and democrats, it's sad that we can't get along and that we have to cheat to win an election, and i just want to know why and how we can stop this voter fraud. thank you for having me. host: that does it for our open forum. next on "washington journal" uncf public policy and government affairsenior vice president rodriguemurray, is going to join us to discuss the findings of a new report looking at the economic impact of

historically black colleges and universities. we'll be right back. >> in 1953, julius and ethel rosenberg were executed after being convicted of conspiracy to commit espionage for the soviet union. their sons, robert and michael were 10 and 6 at the time. sunday on "q&a" the brothers talk about their lives followi their parents' execution and their efforts to clear their mother ethel's record posthumously. >> j. edgar hoover was privy to all the stuff we have learned since including the noninvolvement of my mother and that's the reason why, surprisingly, when the judge was soliciting -- by the way, doing it secretly, recommendations on the sentence, hoover is in writing opposing the death sentence for our mother. >> and we surmised there's a

file in there that says ethel rosenberg was not a spy. and when that file gets released, the puzzle will finally be complete and we'll be able to show the american public that the u.s. government knew ethel rosenberg was not a spy and used her as a hostage and executed her because she called their bluff. >> michael and robert meeropol sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on "q&a." listen to it and other stories on our c-span app. nonfiction book lovers, c-span listen to best-selling authors and influential interviews. and hear wide-ranging conversations with nonfiction authors and others making things

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continues. host: joining us now to discuss the impact of historically black colleges and universities, lodriguez murray, the senior vice president of public policy and government affairs for uncf. welcome to the program. guest: thank you. it is a delight to be with you today. host: can you start by explaining what a uncf is? guest: it is the acronym for united need growth college fund. we are an 80-year-old organization that specializes in helping historically black colleges and universities. we have raised over $7 billion over these eight decades to make sure the institutions that have been treasures in our community and educated generated machines of african americans are strong and we also raise money to make sure that the students who

attend the institutions are strong also. we want to make sure the students are getting into college. uncf has about 400 different scholarship programs where we awarded $100 million a year in scholarships to 10,000 students at -- i am sorry, we award $100 million to 10,000 students at 1100 different colleges and universities and we impact black and brown students not just at the 101 accredited hbcu's but we also impact black and brown students across the country. we are the second largest private provider of scholarship so impact higher education tremendously and we are pleased at the impact and with the population we get to impact also. host: just so everyone has the same understanding, explain what an hbcu is.

you said there are 101 accredited. explain where they are and who is involved with them. guest: historically black colleges and universities our venerable institutions -- our venerable institutions. many of them started after the civil war. the historical part is that part of the name, the history of howie got started. 101 are accredited. they are mostly in the southeastern united states but as far north as pennsylvania and going over a little further west. they had given the nation many of its leaders. we look at martin luther king, jr. like myself, he is a morehouse college graduate. the former president is a howard university alumnus. they are noteworthy for what

they do to educate so many african americans. 70-plus african americans who make their way into higher education come from underserved backgrounds. hbcu's do a better job educating this population than institutions that have vastly big [indiscernible] have many more resources. hbcu's actually are career and life changes and make sure african americans and all who wish to come within their doors. host: it looks like we are having some technical problems with lodriguez's feed. we will get him back as soon we

can. want to let people know that when we do get him back, we are bringing in callers. you can call on the regular lines for republicans, democrats, and independents. we also have a line for hbcu students. democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. and independents, 202-748-8002. . if you are an hbcu student or alumni, your line is 202-748-8003. it looks like we have lodriguez back. i am not sure if you finished your thought, but i want to ask you about a new report that just came out titled "transforming futures: the economic engine of hbcu's." what can you tell us about this report?

how was it done and why? guest: this report was done to tell the narrative of historically that colleges and universities in a new way to explain how important we are to the local economies where each of the institutions are located. it tells quite a story. there is the best of times and the worst of times as it concerns hbcu's. the best of times include the large economic impact that includes the fact that hbcu's impact the country every year by $16.5 billion with a b. if you put all of us together, we would employ a fortune 50 company. that means we impact over 136,000 jobs each year. one graduating class of all hbcu's put together for one year, they have a lifetime earnings expectancy of well over $146 billion. that is the good part of the

story, the fact that even through coronavirus hbcu's were able to impact the country so much. the bad part of the story or the part on which we need to work the most are the needs of the hbcu's which include chronic underfunding by the federal government and philanthropic leaders. it also includes the fact that many facilities need to be refurbished. there is an infrastructure problem on hbcu campuses. even with that said, so many of our students are [indiscernible] the administrators do such a wonderful job that hbcu's continue to do so much with so little for so long. what we hope to do with this report is garner the resources from our federal partners and philanthropic leaders so we have to stop saying that phrase and hbcu's can get the endowments and funding they need and that the students deserve. host: let's talk about that.

when it comes to funding, how much have hbcu's traditionally received in federal funding? how did that compare to non-hbcu institutions? guest: hbcu's receive a fraction of what predominantly white institutions receive. that has been going on since the inception of the institutions. what you find our [no audio] for the federal funding of hbcu's and we also make the ask and the case to philanthropic leaders to do the same. the biden administration is the first administration in history to keep [indiscernible] they say hbcu's have received somewhere north of $17 billion.

that is also funding for each student as well as not a comparison number because no other administration has done that number comparing what hbcu's have gotten in a four-year span. but i have tell you that when you compare hbcu's to predominantly white institutions, on every level, we are underfunded. we have smaller endowments. we receive less federal funding. we receive less philanthropic funding. even with that, we do a tremendous job educating our students. but the appeal is still there for more funding. we think this report that showcases how strong these institutions are economically in their local economies, we think this report makes the case for more funding, and we are happy to take that case to democrats and republicans because we believe it is the right thing to convince them of the funding we sorely need. host: we have people waiting to talk with you. we will go to lynn in north

carolina on the independent line. good morning. caller: yes. i thought i was talking on the phone i answered the answer. i don't know what hbcu is. i think you should tell the people what it is. i did not want to waste my call. i wanted to talk about the electoral college if i can. i would rather call back. host: go ahead and call us back another day, len. we will go to john in san diego, california, on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: yeah, i want to thank mr. murray for being there. i am a graduate of the university in orangeburg, south carolina, hbcu. he is correct. we get terrible funding by the u.s. government. oprah winfrey went to tennessee state. they are owed $1.5 billion compared to the volunteers of tennessee and they have not gotten their money.

i think the school should be taken over by the federal government. that way, they will get equal funding. kamala harris is an hbcu grad. she is the prescription drugs czar. that is why senior citizens have affordable prescriptions. she is a lot of czar and will be the border czar when selected and can pass the border bill. thank you for having me. host: lodriguez? go ahead. guest: i do not quite agree hbcu's should be taken over by the federal government. i do think they should get the funding they deserve. you look at what hbcu's do tremendously well. they take students from underserved backgrounds and give them an education. because of their education, hbcu's, according to this new report, and hbcu graduate will

receive 57% more for their lifetime earnings than they would not without their hbcu credential. hbcu's change not only individuals partially lives for their families and all around them because 70-plus percent of all black students starting in higher education are still coming from first generation college backgrounds. these institutions really change lives. if they receive more funding, if they were able to have better facilities, the institutions would change even more lives. i think that is the real point. that means when the annual appropriations movement, when the labor, education appropriations bill moves, there should be more funding for historically black colleges and universities. when there is funding for infrastructure, hbcu's need to be written in. the students need more. we need to double the pell grant because so many students coming

from underserved backgrounds need more funding on the front end to make sure they do not take out loans. doubling the pell grant is the easiest and best way to do that. host: a few weeks ago, president biden announced $1.3 billion investment to hbcu's. what is that money going to be used for? what are the priorities right now? guest: when the president announced that, that was money already invested at historically black colleges and universities. that 1.3 billion dollars additional is on top of the announcement made months ago hbcu's have received $16 billion over the course of his administration. these moneys will go into laboratories, facilities. the moneys were also going to every student who goes to hbcu's. that is accounting for what has already gone to hbcu's.

what we are saying is while that is well and good, we have certain needs that are important to us. they are urgent to us. they are urgent to our students. we are hoping to partner with this administration in the sunset as well as the neck to administration to see if we can get the funding where we need it the most -- the next administration to see if we can get the funding where we needed. i mentioned doubling the pell grant, infrastructure, making sure hbcu's are made whole and getting stronger endowments so the institutions will be stronger for generations to come. that is our focus. we hope the administrations will be with us so we can get to the result our students and institutions so sorely need. host: let's hear from jim in tucker, georgia, on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. i do not know your name, but i

understand mr. murray is from the hbcu. my comment is, so, good morning, you guys. my comment is this. first of all, let me say i am most grateful for the contributions the african american community has made to the united states. we would not be the united states without them. i hate that we have all of this racial bigotry in our past. that is a really bad thing. my point is it seems to me that the whole idea of an hbcu is perpetrating this -- not perpetrating, perpetuating the racism in our society.

as a white person, if i applied, i guess i could not go to an hbcu. i had a professor at the school i went to and he was a professor at one of the hbcu's in atlanta. i do not recall which one. he was a white professor. my perplexion over all of this is it seems like this idea of the need for an hbcu perpetuates racism in our culture. host: let's get a response from lodriguez. guest: i take exception with the comment. if you look at the history, let's step back even further, let's look at the name. historically black colleges and universities. the first name let you know there is an historical element

here. hbcu's have never discriminated upon admission. we are pretty much the only colleges and universities in america that have never done that. you can be whatever color your maker made you and get into an hbcu. i have had white classmates at morehouse college. the fact a white person could not go to an hbcu is categorically false. in addition, there are white professors, people of all colors that teach and attend historically black colleges and universities. it is not the fact that hbcu's can be discriminatory. there is nothing further from the truth. the fact is the historical element. these colleges and universities were founded in the late 1800's and a time when it was taboo for someone like me to learn to read and write. the fact that these institutions were founded, often in the basement of many churches in the

southeast united states, the fact that these institutions have persisted, the fact that they have been underfunded and do more to make sure students that are still looking to get a leg up in society, coming from underserved backgrounds and want to achieve higher education, have the aptitude but maybe not the resources, these institutions in a modern society do that task of educating the underserved better than anyone, including colleges and universities with better funding. that means hbcu's still do not need to prove the need for their existence to anyone. it proves the fact that we need better funding and resources so we can do the job we are already doing and do it much better. host: let's hear from matthew in

baltimore, maryland. he is an hbcu graduate. good morning, matthew. caller: good morning. thank you so much for having me. lodriguez, thank you for so eloquently speaking on the experience of so many that have benefited for generations. i am a morehouse graduate like lodriguez. my dad went to hampton university, also an hbcu norfolk, virginia. the network they have been able to build has surpassed the time and time again obstacles placed in our way strategically based on the race and culture of our people. the way that an hbcu can connect folks from across the country in such efficient ways speaks volumes to the opportunity we

are able to make these contributions to society. that goes in the direction they are founded through a religious sense. maybe many do not know but religion was a huge and profound building block to increasing our ability to survive as black people transported to this country and raised in this country as subservients. my question or my observation as an hbcu grad, as someone who works in corporate america and has for the last 10 years making contributions as best i can with whatever obstacles get in my way, race or not, i would ask what the experience is like for

black folks that did not know an hbcu was an option and went to their state schools and tried to expound their experience there. but did not feel a sense of community and safety, of i can learn without being objectified by my minority states in this situation. what benefit does that have long-term for when i have children and want them to feel comfortable and empowered to learn anything and everything they possibly can with the appropriate amount of funding that goes into shaping that experience. host: lodriguez. guest: what you found there is a young man speaking about networks.

when students arrive on the campuses, hbcu's are generally not as big as a large state university so that means professors, administrators, the president of the college often knows many of the students by name. that means that young man or woman has a person they can look up to and they know them. it inspires them. when you see what you can achieve, it is much easier to achieve it. there is a network amongst students and a camaraderie that exists. you hear many hbcu graduates speak about going back to homecoming on an annual basis. this is terribly important because of the networks and people can continue to build upon their careers by networking with individuals they went to college with. hbcu's have a special kindredship and are like a mecca to all of their students. it is not just the student that

did attend there but many african americans that did not even attend hbcu's. what we are doing is not just telling the good parts of hbcu's through those anecdotes, we are showing you through this report that these institutions are economic engines that drive the communities where they are located. i am in augusta, georgia today. [indiscernible] devastated by hurricane helene. the whole city is without power. and yet, in this city, there is a historically black college where i basically came of age. this small college contributes upwards of $200 million a year in economic impact. the graduates of paying college, very small college can expect to earn 57 percent over their lifetime then if they did not get an hbcu credential.

of course, the graduates are going to come back and experience homecoming and camaraderie and network with each other pretty institutions are important to the community because of the jobs and economic impact. we think the institutions deserve more funding based off they already contribute to america and with better funding they will contribute even more. host: lodriguez mentioned he is in augusta, georgia, which was hit by hurricane helene. he was able to find someplace with a generator to join us today. that is why you are seeing the breakup in his signal from time to time. we appreciate him being with us. we will hear next from jay in virginia on the independent line. good morning. caller: first of all, i take exception to anyone who thinks discrimination is something of the past and the need for hbcu's is nonexistent for today.

i will stop there. my question is, are there systems in place for individuals formally incarcerated who wish to attend hbcu's? funding, special scholarships, support systems for those individuals who wish to attend hbcu's that have proven they are able to achieve institutions and become graduates of any hbcu? guest: tammy, i would have the caller to reach out to us at uncf.org. of course, there are programs that fit his description and there are historically black colleges and universities that specialize in this area. we were champions at uncf [indiscernible] second chance pell became the

law of the land which allows incarcerated to reduce the rate of going back to prison. any hbcu's have been leaders in this space. i would encourage the caller to reach out to us at uncf.org. look through our 400 different scholarship programs. i am sure there's something for him and i am sure there is an hbcu in his area that would be happy to accept him. host: we have time for one more call. christine is calling on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you doing this morning? host: doing well. caller: this is fine. i am calling because something has been aggravating my mind. we were brought to this country as citizens to this country not by choice. we needed to get along.

there are not enough god-fearing people in the world today. that is what is going on. i am 78 years old. young people now are a lot wilder than i was at one point in my life. my understanding at 78 has grown extremely large. we as a people need to get along. saying that is easy. it will take some work because the democrats and republicans, we are all human. i'm going to say it because it needs to be said. when i say it, i will be satisfied because i have been praying. i am a god-fearing person. a young person, i can tell they have an understanding. host: do you have a question for lodriguez? we only have a couple of minutes left. caller: we need to do more praying. more praying is needed. and another thing.

we as democrats, we as people need to watch out for trump. i think trump has a [indiscernible] mind problem. host: we only have a couple of minutes left. christine mentioned former president trump. we are a little over a month away from the election. you mentioned earlier vice president kamala harris is an alum of an hbcu. regardless of who wins in november, what do you want to see happen in the future with hbcu's and funding? guest: so, you are right that hbcu's need more funding, tammy. what i will say is uncf is doing something. we are kind of first in our class doing this. that is doing a 501(c)(3) activation for all hbcu alums, students, and people who have hbcu's in their heart to turn out and vote. you will see as using the data

from our economic impact report and driving people out to the polls because we think this is a pivotal election year. it is pivotal because of the funding necessary. no matter who wins the election, we want to make sure hbcu's are well-funded and our students get the opportunity they need. what we say at uncf all the time, our motto is, "a mind is a terrible thing to waste." this year, we believe a vote is a terrible thing to waste also. so, we are going to drive more people to the polls to ensure funding next year for hbcu's continues to go north no matter which party wins. we want to make sure we have a seat at the table. because if hbcu's are not seated at the table, tammy, that means we are on the menu. host: our guest, lodriguez murray, is the senior vice president of public policy and government affairs for uncf. you can find them online at uncf.org and on x @uncf.

thank you so much for being with us today. guest: thank you for having me. host: stay safe down there. that is it for today's "washington journal." we will be back tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. with another show. until then, enjoy the rest of your day. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2024] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> ♪ >> c-span's "washington journal" discusses the latest issues in government, politics, and public policy. from washington and across the

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students from low income families can get the tools they need tbe ready for anything. >> ccast supports c-span as a public service along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> let's not permit scapegoating instead of solutions or rhetoric instead of results. as your president, i will protect our nation's sovereignty, secure our border, and work to fix our broken system of immigration. this is washington journal for saturday, september 28. vice president kamala harris made her first trip to the u.s.-mexico border since winning the top spot on the democratic ticket. immigration has consistently ranked as one of the most important issues this campaign season.

to start we want to hear your thoughts on vice president harris's visit to the border and the new proposal. here are the phone lines. democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. and independents, 202-748-8002. you can text your comments to 202-748-8003. he sure to include your name or city and you can post a question or comment on facebook at facebook.com/c-span or on x at c-spanwj. thank you for being with us. vice president kamala harris was at the border. this is the headline from "the washington post." she proposes new restrictions on immigration. "vice president kamala harris and her campaign proposed new border restrictions that would go further than the emergency rules that the biden

administration deployed in june, making the announcement on a visit to the border friday in an effort to confront one of her biggest political vulnerabilities. here is proposed executive action -- harris' proposed executive actions would build on the policy of essentially closing off the silent system and less illegal border crossings stay below 1500 daily crossings for a week. harris would lower the threshold and extent period that it must be met although the exact figures were not immediately available. " while she was there she argued that border patrol agents need more resources and promised that combating the flow of fentanyl would be a top priority of her presidency. as part of that effort she proposed adding new detection machines at ports of entry and said she would press the chinese government to do more to crack down on companies that make

chemicals used in fentanyl." here are more of her remarks after that trip to the border yesterday in arizona. [video clip] >> as president i will not only bring back border security bill that donald trump tanked, i will do more to secure our borders. to reduce illegal border crossings, i will take further action to keep the border closed between ports of entry. those who cross our borders unlawfully will be apprehended and removed and barred from reentering for five years. we will pursue criminal charges against violators. and if someone does not make an asylum request at a legal point of entry and instead crosses the border unlawfully they will be barred from receiving asylum. while we understand that many

people are desperate to migrate to the united states, our system must be orderly and secure. and that is my goal. that is my goal. [applause] securing our border also means addressing the flood of fentanyl into our communities. it is a scorch -- scourge in our country. the nature of it is that it is highly addictive and highly lethal. so much so that zing it one time only -- using it one time only can be fatal. i have met far too many families, parents, and loved ones who have lost a family member, a child, to fentanyl. and their grief is

heartbreaking. and the devastation caused by fentanyl is being felt from rural communities to big cities. it is impacting communities across the country regardless of where they are geographically, politically or any other demographic. it is a scourge in the country and we have to take it seriously. as president i will make it a top priority to disrupt the flow of fentanyl coming into the united states. [applause] [end video clip] host: we are hearing from you this first hour on vice president kamala harris' visit to the border and her new proposal on restrictions. we will hear from noticed in -- otis and orangeburg, florida on the democrats line. caller: good morning, i think she gave a great state -- speech. it was more substance and less bluster.

in order to solve problems you are supposed to tackle it from every area so that you can stop the overflow. but she gave a great speech. the most important thing was that she identified that she is not weak when it comes to border security. her stance as attorney general, district attorney, that gives you more insight in how to deal with criminals versus someone saying what are we going to do? if there is no substance behind the plan, you end up complaining more than solving problems. host: is immigration a campaign issue that is important to you? where does it rank on your list? caller: immigration is not a problem to me but it seems to be want to the country.

it has to be a part of every day. immigration is part of our daily lives. so that issue affects every americans. but it is not in the top part of the list. it can be an issue that you need to solve. host: sarah in hawaii on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. i think the fentanyl crisis has been going on for close to 10 years and it is rather late the federal government to make statements that they are going to do something about it. this has been a crisis for years and nobody has done anything. i think they are late in the game with this, and i consider the whole fentanyl crisis a systematic extermination of our young people in the country because this stuff has been

coming in for 10 years. i remember when there were only 20,000 deaths a year to fentanyl. and it is a shame that this has been going on for as long as it has gone on. and they do need to hear the border. but i the train has left the station and the damage is already done. it is just a shame that they have waited this long. and that is all i wanted to say. thank you. host: mark in ohio on the republican line. good morning. caller: she has the biggest fraud i have ever seen did not get a single vote. this was planned by the democratic party. the democratic party is the biggest fraud. the last 12 out of 16 years, obama has been running the country and that is a fact. biden was a puppet. if you're looking at the fentanyl and the migrants, look

at the constitution, the rights of our government. it is all a game. there is nothing good about the government anymore. young men have to register for selective service while all of these illegals are in the country. what is going on? host: let us hear from cliff in oklahoma, on the independent line. good morning. caller: hello. if kamala harris could have given that speech when she first took over the job of border czar when biden first put her on and then followed through with practicing that would have been great. but she has been border czar and in charge of the border for 3.5 years.

what she is talking about now is just to get votes. and she must think that the american people are a bunch of idiots. sadly, she might be right in many cases. but i do not think it is going to be or that most of the american people are that foolish. host: we are also hearing from viewers on social media. text and tweets are coming in. this on facebook from mark murphy. "harris is a true leader, unlike trump. trump goes for the photo ops. harris goes heirs to sve problems." this is from deb klock. "actually at least some of the ideas we ithe bill from killed. it wasipartisan by the way. trump likes to run on things. he is not good at fixi anything." frankie urbain ss again she

could have donth before now. this is just another meaningle photo op to fold the mormons among us that she will somehow do something when she h clearly done nothing. e ll do nothing! " troy, michigan. "the news of all of the violent cre nurse that were allowed into our country nullified her trip completely. trump is far ahead of her on this issue." former president trump did speak about the issue yesterday during a town hall in warren, michigan. and blamed vice president kamala harris for the border security. here are some of his remarks. [video clip] >> this has been a very interesting day. some numbers came out and let us give you the bad news first. the worst numbers i think i have ever heard. you know what i am talking about. a lot of people being released into the country that should

never ever be here, right? like nobody can believe that i have been saying it for 3.5 years because we are the party of common sense and we know what is going on. coming out of jails, and murders that nobody thought possible. and it was all done by comrade kamala harris. [booing] our great borders are who is -- czar who is totally incompetent. 240,000 criminals and much more than 13,000 convicted murderers who were in jail and all released into our country and we cannot put up with this. this is gross incompetence. let's get back to the show, ok. right? [end video clip] host: from fox news, some more detail about those figures that

former president trump was talking about. ""the data from u.s. immigrations says that among those not in detention there are 425,431 convicted criminals and 222,141 with pending criminal charges. it includes 62,231 people convicted of assault, 14,301 convicted of burglary, 56,553 with drug convictions, and 13,099 addicted of homicide. an additional 2500 21 have kidnapping convictions and 15,811 have sexual assault convictions." back to your calls. we will go to paul in cornwall, new york. calling on the republican line. good morning. caller: i just want to say that maybe george clooney can recommend kamala harris for an

academy award because of the stellar performance she gave. 3.5 years of being in charge to try to fix the border she has done absolutely nothing. for once i would like you folks in the media to call her out on this and to call her out on what she has not done in this country that we use up -- that she was supposed to do as a vice president of the united states. it is really pathetic. have a great day, and thank you. host: elaine in allen park, michigan. democrats line. good morning. caller: good morning to you. it is interesting how they think that kamala harris was supposed to fix the border. no president is ever going to " fix" and it is not like there is a big gate that they will close and shut down and no more people. that is not how it works. big agriculture and the restaurant industry of this country would crater.

this country would crater without immigrants. we need them and the military, there is no such thing as, --, was supposed to fix it. her job was not to fix it her job is to be the tiebreaker in the senate and she has broken more ties than any vice in history. her job is not to fix. congress is the one who fixes the border and puts a new judge is and fixes that backlog and that sort of thing. they had a bill and trump tank day. that is exactly what she said and that is what happened. i think it is terrible that people seem to think that we are going to stop immigration. no prager -- no president ever in the history of this country has ever stopped at nor will it ever be stopped. like i said, do you think is processing your honey bank hands and your christmas and thanksgiving? it is not chad and cameron who

are college kids, these are immigrants coming in that are picking the vegetables and getting everything ready so that we can achieve prices so our eggs are not $16 anymore. we need immigrants and we need more judges to process them. we need more border agents to see that they are safe. there is a reason why that we have had a lot of fentanyl cases. we have been able to stop them. during the trump years it was only like the amounts were a lot less because they were not able to stop them. now we have so much more because we have agents to be able to stop them. host: we've got your point. richard in nashville, tennessee on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. yes. i am 68 years old and i live in

nashville, tennessee. i lived here 50 years out of 68. and i have more violence in my neighborhood, which is a lower middle-class neighborhood. i finally got my home paid for and now i have investors buying property. they are basically running down the neighborhoods and they went up on my taxes 34.5%. all i have gotten out of it are bike lanes and little dog parks in the areas and not much. the traffic is terrible because we have 100 people a day moving here because we do not have an income tax in the state of tennessee. i have lived in l.a. after college and i used to go down to tijuana and baja and go into everything. you could cross the border easily. now you do not go near the border. i have a cousin who lives two

miles from the border and they do not go down there. all of the migrants coming into be day workers. some would go to central valley and they would stay there and on the weekend they go back. a friend of mine grew up in el paso and i have been to el dorado in tucson. it was never a problem. but when you have honest and good working people coming here is migrants they help build this country and i give them back. but we have criminals from other countries further away that are not even in this continent coming across the border. look at 911, remember the saying? so, it is not about democrats and republicans. kamala harris did not do what she was supposed to because most of my family live in l.a. and san diego and they watched what she has done. so this is not new news, this is old news.

the difference between the old news of people crossing the border and the new news is that we have criminals and everybody from different continents coming here other than the mexican families that used to come across from -- or into el dorado and come into the states like el paso. they would work for the day and many would go back across. and they lived good lives. and the american people would share their money and eat. but you cannot do that today. host: racquel in new jersey, also on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. as i have been following everything with p harris, it was a joke that she had 3.5 years to go to the border and fix it and she goes to a portion of the border where she does not see the migrants coming in. granted america is made of

different types of migrants. i am a permanent resume -- resident. everything was done accordingly. we had to go in get checks and go through immigration in court. why is it that you are allowing all of these people to come in. they are illegal and criminal. i am at walmart with my four-year-old daughter and someone almost took my daughter. it is insane. why is it that she did not do something about this .5 years ago and now she wants to go to the border to show people she has there to get votes. it does not work like that and it should have been taken care of. host: led did you think about the proposals that she made while she was down there? caller: it is a joke. she has a joke. host: ahead of vice president harris'