announcer: "washington journal" continues. host: joining us now to discuss the rising cost of natural disasters and climate preparedness is shana udvardy.

she is the senior climate resilience policy analyst for the union of concerned scientists. 2k the program. guest: thank you. host: why don't you remind the audience about your organization, what you focus on and who you work with. guest: sure. the union of concerned scientists is a national nonprofit organization. we were founded over 50 yearsins ago and we put science and help to develop a solution and advocate for a safe, healthy and just world. host: one thing that we are hearing about in the news is the disaster relief fund. explain what that is and what funding from that pot of money goes toward. guest: sure. so the disaster relief fund is the federal government's largest resource for disaster relief.

and so it goes for all types of disasters, things like climate-related disasters, such as what we're seeing with hurricane helene, the wildfires out in maui and also natural hazards such as earthquakes as well as incidents like the failure of the bridge in baltimore. and it can help support large projects for state and local tribal, territorial governments to help repair critical infrastructure. so a lot of the funding goes towards debris removal and assistance that can help households and individuals pay for shelter and pay for food. the immediate needs funding is

fema's last resort and they need to tourney the obligated funds that have been put towards projects for communities and local state governments to repair critical infrastructure and things like that. but the good news is the day before the hurricane hit, the congress did pass the supplemental, continuing -- i'm sorry, included $20 million for the fiscal year 2025. they are very concerned about having enough funding to ride out the rest of the atlantic hurricane season. host: what is the -- what are the challenges when it comes to determining the amount of funding that's going to be

needed, especially when we see the cost of these disasters increase something. guest: absolutely. so fema normally does their estimates for the president based on the past 10 years. and so the problem with that is that we know with climate change, we're going to be seeing more climate fuel disasters like with hurricane helene. and so fema really would benefit from looking at projections into the future based on climate science. host: we are talking with shana udvardy about the rising cost of natural disasters and climate preparedness. if you have a comment for her, you can start calling in now. we've broken our phone lines by region. if you are in the eastern or central time zone, your line, 202-748-8000. if you're mountain pacific,

202-748-8001, and if you have an experience with a natural disaster, there's also a line for you. that line is 202-748-8002. how has the baseline fumbled changed? guest: with climate change and with the really terrible disasters, what we're seeing is with fema's funding, it's like groundhog day in the middle of the hurricane season. we've seen fema having to put the immediate needs funding, the last mechanisms in place nine times since 2001 including last year some it really underscores the challenge that fema has, especially during in the middle of a hurricane season when their staff is already, you know, very stressed and their resources are running thin. so we really need fema to work on increasing their projections

based on climate science and we need congress to fulfill fema's request when fema testifies in front of congress. host: when you talk about climate science, what exactly are you looking for? what should they be looking at or factoring in? guest: with hurricane helene, what we know is scientists from the berkeley lawrence national laboratory estimated that climate change made the rainfall 50 times heavier and made the event 20 times more likely. so what we can do is take a look at projections for the rainfall which is harder to do, but the national oceanagraphics and atmospheric administration is working on updating the rainfall projections. host: and i want to show this chart.

it's on climate.gov. it shows as of last month, the u.s. had had more than 60 disaster declaration including 20 in the billion-dollar threshold. this chart shows that reached the billion dollar threshold last year. there were 20 of them. when we hear a cost like that, what is included? guest: yes. so the last year there, were 28. and actually, 2022 was the record year with 165 billion dollars. so these disasters are increasing and we know that because noaa is provide the data. but -- what was the question, i'm sorry? host: just looking at what's included in the cost. guest: absolutely. the methodology is on their website but it includes things like building damage. that's one of the basic things fema goes to is looking at how

much substantial damage building or home or business has incurred as well as things like infrastructure, critical infrastructure that's on the ground. and then there's debris removal. so it is really a wide slot of different pieces of data that they're looking at. host: let's talk with our audience. several people waiting to talk with you. we'll hear this from justin. he is in new orleans. good morning, justin. caller: good morning. guest: good morning. caller: my comment is the scientists, they got thousands and thousands of scientists. these people, is and know what to do with this stuff. and you got people calling in that don't know nothing but science. don't want to know nothing but science and they just hedge fundering people trying to make things safe for their crazy behind.

and donald trump, he went down there, running down there with a little truck to try to make a point. you can't just run into the storm. you have to let people do their job and they will tell you when they can start putting stuff out. people don't listen to the science. they are not going to go there. they're just making my -- i agree with the lady on tv. guest: yeah, absolutely. you know, the science is really helpful to inform federal agencies and noaa does a lot of hard work in that area. but when it comes to a disaster, the first choices is just to make sure people can recover and have the resources they need. fema has that assistance right now. and people can go to their website. but one of the other things is once you have this science, you need to be able to help educate people. so it's so important that people understand the risk they face when they live next to rivers or if they live next to a coast.

host: you are -- i want to get it right. a certified floodplain -- guest: manager. host: manager. what does that look like in your experience somewhat do people miss? guest: one of the biggest thing that people miss and we are hearing about it in north carolina and people haven't seen these kinds of floods before. they haven't seen these kinds of rainfall before. so that's what's really critical is about educating people about the science and understanding the impacts of climate change but also just on the ground. there are people that thought they were -- didn't -- local community had changed the flood map. so they no longer needed flood insurance. and now they're left high and dry. and so not only understanding the risks of what types of floods we can see like 100-year flood is just the minimum. we're seeing these 1,000-year events much more frequently.

and so we really need communities that are near these risky places to understand their risks and then have that flood insurance if they can afford it to have that buffer. host: mika on the line for experienced with the natural disaster. caller: i'm helping out at the fire department trying to feed all the first responders and stuff. we got hit really bad with helene. the town that's maybe 10 minutes, 10 minutes from us is completely destroyed. i don't understand how you would value the loss of an entire town. the biggest issue that we've seen up here is there's been landslides because we can't handle all of this water and roads are complete fully shut off. mountains aren't really meant to handle this kind of stuff. we've got a bunch of people that are coming in to try to tour the

damage and we can't -- our crews that are out working trying to repair the roads can't get anything done because so many people are on the roads. i think the biggest issue that we have is too many people are here while we're trying to repair and recover from this. that's really that is really all i wanted to share. oh, yesterday, you had a guest on saying they are not prioritizing door-to-door checks on people. we have been going door to door in this community. i am pretty sure most of the fire departments in the area have been to check on people. it is rough. we just need people to stay out while we try to recover. host: that was mika in hendersonville. guest: thank you for your service. i am sorry for the struggles you are having. fema does recommend people not go to the area.

i am sure local authorities such as yourself are recommending that as well. how to value something like a whole town being devastated by hurricane helene is quite the statement. it is irreplaceable. right? you have people who have been living there for generations. it is something that may not be accounted for by exactly, the culture significance, etc., but it is a devastating impact. i hope you get the resources you need. host: annie in florida on the line for experience with natural disaster. good morning. caller: good morning. i love the last caller about the floodplains woman. fema has always been helpful. i feel more bad for north florida which got hit harder.

congress must meet this week apparently to approve more funding for the future. i believe this should be the final nail in the coffin for republicans as we will be able to watch real-time this week congress members that will vote against. great easy to understand, if they will pay attention to this. even a kindergartner will be able to understand that the republicans will vote against this bill and we will be able to see which ones do it. trump has been going around blaming congress, which is ridiculous because the white house approved fema funds, the allocated funds, before the storm arrived in florida, so well last week.

and sunday, more was approved. now, we have to go to congress to approve more for the future. thank you for your time. for trump to do that, to use that as political and use us for his political blame is sickening. host: annie, we will get a response from shana. guest: it is unfortunate when it comes to disaster that it can be a political football when it comes to actually funding, providing funding for people in need. unfortunately, as i said, we have seen this playbook before. i do hope congress comes back from recess and provides this critical funding. host: what are some of the challenges to getting supplemental funding went something like this happens with fema where they have run out of money but there is still so many

storms, the expectation they will need more funding is still there? guest: the challenges is that our fiscal conservatives that want to control the budget and keep costs down. unfortunately, this is not the place to do cutting, especially when so many people are in need. there are many other budgets that can be cut. it is just a small portion of the overall budget. host: next, we will talk with gobert in birmingham, alabama, experience with a natural disaster. caller: i have done a lot of research on the ucs and i find most of it i concur with. taxpaying citizens are suffering through the disasters. with all of the wars going on across the world with all the

bombs being dropped and everything, do you think that could be one of the reasons we have these extreme conditions across the world? after all, the earth is 70% water. people with all this devastation, bombing, smoke, gas, the amazon basin, do you think all of that could be contributing to the conditions we are suffering not only in america but across the world? guest: great question. thank you for that. thank you for looking at the ucs website and data. yes, unfortunately, we know that fossil fuels are increasing the temperatures. it is at unprecedented levels. part of the reason we are seeing such strong hurricanes now and accelerating hurricanes is because we are seeing warmer pacific temperatures. the warmer air can hold more

water so it drops more rain. we have been hearing this from fossil fuel companies. -- we have been hearing disinformation from fossil fuel companies. we do need to reduce emissions rapidly. that means cutting emissions to about half by 2030, which is just a few years away, and then getting to net-zero by midcentury. host: the other side of recovery is preparedness. we want to play this thought for you from the ranking member of connecticut asking the homeland security secretary a question about preparedness during the budget hearing and the request. [video clip] >> i would like to focus on prevention and predisaster mitigation. the sad reality is disasters are going to happen. can we speak to the 20 request

for fema? how do you envision it should be focused? where our increased investments needed for you -- where are increased investments needed for you? what policy changes should congress be considering? these are homeland security issues. >> congresswoman, i look forward to working with you on assessing what legislative changes are needed to better address the increasing impacts of climate change, increasing frequency and gravity of extreme weather events. i have spoken with mayors around the country about the need to update building codes. >> ok. >> something as basic as that because the building codes are addressing the weather of yesterday and not the weather of today or tomorrow. i believe it is colorado state university that just issued a report about its prediction for hurricane season. it is really looking very troubling. an ounce of prevention today is

absolutely vital to preventing calamities in local communities across this country. they situation is getting worse from an extreme weather perspective. we have to work with every community to ensure it understands what it needs to do with the funds that we distribute to it and the funds that they themselves have, in terms of understanding how houses and residences of all types need to be prepared, need to be safeguarded, and what people need to do should an extreme weather event actually occur. host: your reaction to that exchange? guest: excellent question. i agree with the secretary's response. we need a paradigm shift. we need a lot more funding toward mitigation. for flooding, that looks like elevating homes.

the secretary said building codes. we were happy to see the resilience funding and infrastructure and jobs act but it is not sufficient when it comes to helping build in a climate smart, stronger way. host: let's hear from frank in california. in morning, frank. -- good morning, frank. caller: thank you for taking my call. i believe in climate change. i have heard the immigrants are taking money, over $1.3 billion out of the fema money. i want to hear if that is correct or not. i saw last night when president biden was asked about the storm, he said, what storm? i hope you play that because i remember when bush was president, they said he did not

like black people and it ruined his political career. i wonder if the shoe was on the other foot and if trump was president if you would do the same thing and run that over and over again. and by the way, mr. john kerry, the head of climate change, his family makes heinz ketchup bottles, plastic bottles. no one says a word about his footprint. he flies around telling all of us to behave yourself. i think the double standards in this country, people are fed up and tired of it. is it true money is going to people who have broken our laws coming in here while our poor people are suffering? thank you. guest: absolutely. it absolutely is not true. fema has different pockets of money. there is a small pocket of funding that does go towards the immigration program. i have not seen secretary biden's comment. we are in the middle of the

atlantic hurricane season as well as wildfire season. there are quite a few storms going on at the same time. it is possible it was a legitimate question and he was asking which storm you are referring to. host: want to let the caller know, asking about the claim, the article says the false claim pushed by trump that the disaster money was given to migrants has spread quickly in recent days boosted by former president trump and some of his most high-profile supporters. fema has also launched a webpage in response to those rumors. you can find that and their comments about the issue on fema.gov. we will hear next from leslie in spartanburg, south carolina. good morning.

caller: a caller called in about chimney rock. this is not the first time that town has fell into the water. you have heavy floods up this way, especially in the mountain areas, this hurricane was a noah's flood type thing that not only flooded rivers over the banks but brought the mountain down with it. look at the copper graphical map -- topographical map. as far as fema goes, i think they have done as well as they can. this republican congress passed that bill in the midst of the storm. they did not know the damage.

they did not want to hang around another day. i hope you are still there. host: we are still here. caller: they did not want to hang around. they got out of town. they should have passed extra supplemental funding! host: leslie, we prefer not to use that kind of language. shana, any response? guest: we know it was a terrible and devastating storm. we saw a really heavy, unprecedented rainfall. it was already moist soils. it is just devastating. we have not seen this kind of flooding before. as the caller said, they have seen flooding but not to this extent. unfortunately with climate change, we are going to see more of these types of disasters because there is more fuel to make these storms worse. host: your organization has called for congress to

reauthorize the program with meaningful reforms. what reforms would you like to see and what are the challenges? guest: the last time the national flood insurance program was reformed was 2019. one of the major reforms we want to see is how congress gives fema the authorization to establish unaffordability program for flood insurance. -- an affordability program for flood insurance paid we are hearing from some the people cannot afford flood insurance. fema has given congress a framework of how to do this so congress needs to provide that authority. we need to do better on flood risk maps to make sure they are incorporating the latest climate science. these types of rainfall events will be better known by people and they can prepare. host: the ability to get

homeowners insurance can be made difficult by the increasing number of climate events. how does that factor into preparedness? guest: absolutely. one of the proposals could be that you provide grants or other types of incentives to homeowners to reduce their risk. this could be elevating buildings or what have you. by doing so, that can reduce their flood insurance costs. host: fred in albany, new york, good morning. caller: [indiscernible] host: fred, are you there? caller: yes. host: could you turn down your tv in the background? caller: ok, it is down. host: go ahead, you are on. caller: yes, how people vote against they own interest with climate change. like the young lady was talking about earlier how congress

barely wanted to pass the resolution but how you know the republican congress, you know, don't, most of them do not believe in climate change, you know, so they really don't want to fund it. even when president trump was president, he pulled out of the paris climate accord which strengthens our ability, you know, to maybe put a dampen on climate. a lot of the disasters happening happened in a lot of their constituents' states. the people vote against their own interests. with these disasters and how it is politicized, we have trump going there spewing lies about how the biden administration and fema is not helping. none of this stuff helps.

if people keep voting for people who does not have the interest at heart, i just do not understand it. that is all i am saying. thank you. guest: absolutely. i am in the same boat. climate science, we have known about the impacts of climate change for quite some time. we are doing the best we can to educate people on the science and the impacts and how we can provide solutions. not helpful to politicize it. the best thing people can do is educate themselves about the risk but also vote. host: does your organization work with members of congress? how do you try to reach them? guest: we educate members of congress on the latest climate science, absolutely, and help them to figure out some of the solutions they can put in place. helping to educate about the climate science.

host: jay in new hampshire on the line for experience with natural disaster. caller: good morning. thank you to the guest. hats off to the incredible crews in vermont and new hampshire dealing with the flooding. it is unbelievable the damage. i just want to say it does not seem to me the union of concerned scientists or the media are properly interested in the real causes of what is going on. there has been an interest for centuries to control the weather. there's an air force document, " owning the weather by 2025, whether as a force multiplier." i think they are using this as smoke to be able to shoot energy into the tops of the storms. if you do not know about the weather, you will die. i do not see the expert

forecasters saying we went to bed for category category 1 and when we woke up it was category 4 in 12 hours. this is anomalous. i am seeing this all over the place. i do not think the media and scientists are properly interested in the causes of this stuff, it is one thing to blame some meathead in a pickup truck driving around trying to feed his family but another to look at what, the energy being input into these storms. god bless everyone in the southeast united states. holy smokes. host: we will get a response from shana. guest: absolutely. what we are seeing from climate change is the high increase in temperatures and they are gathering more power and accelerating faster. as the caller underscores, the

scientists are doing the best they can to forecast. different forecasts for the storm were quite accurate. it is hard to get people on the ground educated, not educated, but giving them the information they need in such a short time. i am empathetic with the caller and everybody on the ground. this storm happened quickly. it happened at night. if i recall correctly. it is a hard time. people have busy lives and they are trying to get the latest information. unfortunately, i think a lot of people were not prepared and could not expect this type of impact. host: on your website, one of the items you show is what you call danger season 2024. it has a figure of over 72

million people in the united states are currently faced with extreme weather and has a map. what else can you tell us about what you have on your website? guest: absolutely. we are trying to help show folks that we are seeing different types of climate change related events across the country. it shows the events for wildfires, flooding, things like that as well as places seeing a combination of different impacts. danger season is the time may to november when every part of the country is seeing some type of extreme event. host: you can see the green on the eastern coast is flooding. yellow and the california area is extreme heat. the orange covering a good

chunk of the midwest and the west is fire weather. this updates daily. if you wanted to look and see what may be going on in your area. karen in georgia is calling on the line for experience was natural disaster -- with natural disaster. good morning. caller: i was calling because i wanted more clarification on a caller who called in and said, is there money going to immigrants? if i understood correctly, you said there is part of fema that does give money to immigrants, and housing and shelter or whatever. the commentator read an article from abc that said it is false. i was trying to get clarification. i think that is very important for many people.

this is a total disaster in these areas. people are suffering immensely. help should be there. host: karen, the article is from nbc news. the headline is false claims pushed by trump. it says there is no evidence disaster funds were used on immigrants in the u.s. illegally. fema disaster money comes from a dedicated fund that cannot be used for other purposes. ron in ohio, go ahead. sorry. are you there now? caller: yeah. i would like to know, all this money, even if it was not going to immigrants, what about all the money going to ukraine and all of that? it seems the biden administration can find plenty of money when it comes to other

people. what about our people? guest: i will just say when it comes to these types of disasters, there is never enough funding. i think people are really devastated. they are looking for the next meal, never mind kids going to school or finding medicine, etc. these are really trying times. i think the administration is doing the best they can. but as you said, we do need congress to replenish the disaster relief fund with a supplemental. host: sue in florida, good morning. caller: good morning. you asked if i had been through a hurricane. yes, i have. i lived through michael. it was pretty bad but not nearly as bad as this. but the reason i called is i am hearing trump, trump, trump,

blaming trump for everything. well, we have democrats running this country right now, so i am getting sick and tired of people blaming trump for everything. as far as climate change, kerry flies around in a huge plane that burns a lot of fuel, puts out a lot of emissions. kamala harris spent $6 million, i heard, on planes. i am assuming she was flying in illegals. i do not know what she was doing with it. as far as congress, biden can overstep congress. he overstepped everything else. the first day in office, he did away with everything trump had in place. he has continued to do that, and to lay on the beach. i am 80 years old.

i have lived in florida all my life. and i have never went through what these people are going through. but i have seen trump up there trying to help. i have seen biden and kamala out campaigning or laying on the beach. guest: i do not have a comment. host: we will go on to josephine in new jersey. good morning, josephine. caller: good morning. we are assuming we are the only country in the world experiencing what we are experiencing. that is why i like to listen to the news from around the world. europe is experiencing floods like we are, number one. number two, the mountain areas are getting snow like never before. you know what they do differently? they accept science. how unique of them. and they are preparing themselves for this kind of situation. we, on the other hand, are choosing to ignore science.

one former president was in georgia and asked point blank, do you believe in climate? he said, no! with a very nasty no. when you have someone playing ignorant for profit, unfortunately we suffer. quite don't you tell them how the east coast in the future is going to change -- why don't you tell them how the east coast in the future is going to change the configuration because of the high water? the state afforded, half of it will be in the water in the next five to 10 years -- the state of florida, it will be in the water the next five to 10 years. guest: absolutely. i do want to underscore there are many parts of the world suffering these types of flooding. nepal and europe. i think everybody is working to try to think about how to rebuild and put different types of risk mitigation measures in place. all of the united states is not the same, as we know, but there

is a majority of americans that do believe in climate change. we do know there are quite a few mayors out there doing their hardest work to help people against extreme heat, against wildfires, and sea level rise in florida and the new england coast which is accelerating. we will see unfortunately people on the coast, their properties going underwater or at least being affected so much that it will change their way of life. our recent report looks at the type of infrastructure at risk. we find unfortunately affordable housing, public and affordable housing is one of the most at risk types of infrastructure for tidal flooding. host: we have time for one last call, donna in louisiana. caller: i just tuned in.

you were talking about climate change. did you mention asheville's catastrophic flood of 1916? that was 100 years ago that happened. i would like you to maybe touch on that. thank you. guest: absolutely. i think a caller mentioned the 1916 flight. it is a marker there. when we refer to the types of floods, the percentage or chance of flood, we can speak to these types of events. this was much more catastrophic than the 1916 flood, but there are these types of floods that have happened in the past. we are just seeing the much stronger because of the heavy rainfall and much broader and larger. host: our guest is the senior climate policy analyst with the union of concerned

scientists. you can find their work online