♪ host: this is the washington journal for october 17. vice president harris and former

president trump have branched out other forms of media to get their message out. podcast, late-night talk shows, other forms of mass communication. surveys shows people are using those forums to get their political information. to date how you get your political news and why you choose the outlets you do. let us know on the phone lines. (202) 748-8001 fins, democrats bang (202) 748-8000, independents (202) 748-8002. if you want to text us your thoughts (202) 748-8003 you can do that at (202) 748-8003 -- you can do that at (202) 748-8003. few research data recent look at news consumption and where they get the news from. when it looks at platforms,

taking a look at 2024, when you look at the topic of digital devices, 57% of those responding says when it comes to news consumption that is what they choose most. 29% say they sometimes choose those digital devices. it is in the single digits when it comes to the never and rarely categories. television, only 33% of those in 2024 saying that is where they get their news from. 39 percent saying sometimes where they get their news, and the 22% saying rarely do they get their news from that platform. it goes down drastically when you go to radio, specifically when it comes to radio. only 11% saying they get their news from that. more sing sometithey get their news, 29% saying they rarely get their news from radio. pew took a look at social media and asked the same question.

the percentage of adults who get news from social media. in 2024 25% of those responding saying they get their news from those sites. sometimes at between 9% -- sometimes at 29%. in the never category, 28 percent responding saying when it comes to news consumption social media is not it. that is some of the folks from pew thing that, you can tell us where you get your news as well. if you want to let us know it is (202) 748-8001 republicans, (202) 748-8000 free democrats and independents (202) 748-8002. text us at (202) 748-8003 and you can always post on our social media sites on facebook and x. let's start with kendra in virginia. independent line.

go ahead. caller: good morning. i mostly get my news -- i try to find stations that are unbiased. i have been watching c-span washington journal for over 10 years now. i used to watch cnn and then i stopped because i realized they were really left leaning. my most recent station i watch since 2021 is newsnation. that is the station i watch, mostly in the evenings to get my news from. host: when you watch, you say you look for bias. what is it in the news coverage you look for that you say i will stay with the station or not

stay with the station? caller: i want to make sure they are covering, as far as with political news, i want to make sure they are covering things fairly. i do not want them to just cover one person most of the time. when they bring on guests i prefer they bring someone that is going to talk about one candidate and then have another person that will talk about the other candidate, not just bringing someone on that is going to bash one candidate stop i want to make sure whoever they bring on, there are views from both political sides. host: kendra in virginia. let's hear from hannah in connecticut. democrats line. caller: i usually go straight to

c-span and i also listen to msnbc and cnn at my local channel, which is cbs. i would like to say that when i went to vote -- since covid came about i had to register all over again and i am 77. i thought i was all set with that. they should talk a lot bit more on television to let us know that you have to register in some places again. i would also like to say i only have one time to talk. i'm try to say all i have to say now. i think president biden come up with the task force to study all of these gases that are being dumped into the ozone. that is the reason way we have -- why we have all these hurricanes. just to have a study on what the

spaceships are dumping out into the earth as they come up and go back down. host: is to keep on the topic, i know you have a lot of things to talk about. when you watch your various news channels do you watch just the news portions, to watch the opinion shows, watch all of it? what is that for you? caller: i am also looking for the news because of a storm is coming up or something i want to make sure we know about it. i wanted to say one thing. one thing i will let you go. jd vance's wife is indian and i think kamala harris should be looking at that group of people. host: let's go to ben in pennsylvania. caller: as far as my go to sources for news, i imagine i'm a little bit of an outlier when it comes to being an arctic

supporter of president trump, i watch everything from fox to msnbc. i watch the opinion, i watch the news, nightly news with lester holt is my preferred in terms of nbc abc cbs. i do want to say c-span is by far the most reliable news source out of all of them. i feel you are the only ones left who truly give a nonbiased opinion on issues throughout the day and throughout the months and throughout the election. that being said, vice president harris interview with bret baier on fox, i respect her for doing that but we cannot forget president trump has been facing adversarial media for the last 10 years and doing it regularly. to answer the question directly, i like to get all of the opinions and make my am decision. host: there is ben in pennsylvania.

you can continue on with thoughts. maybe they have said something you can agree with or go to other places when it comes to news consumption. (202) 748-8001 republicans, (202) 748-8000 for democrats. independents, (202) 748-8002. the caller just mentioned the interview the vice president conducted with bret baier. one of the topics is the question about how her administration would differ from that of the current president, joe biden. here's part of that exchange from yesterday. [video clip] >> you are not joe biden and you are not donald trump but nothing comes to mind you would do differently? >> my presidency will not be a continuation of joe biden's presidency. like every new president that comes into office i will bring my life experiences, my professional experiences, and fresh and new ideas.

i represent a new generation of leadership. i am someone who has not spent the majority of my career in washington, d.c. i invite ideas from republicans who are supporting me who were just on stage with me minutes ago and the business sector and others who can contribute to the decisions i make about my plan for increasing the supply of housing in america and bringing down the cost of housing. addressing the issue of small businesses which is about working with the private sector to bring more capital and access to capital to our small business leaders, including my plan for a $25,000 down payment assistance for first-time homebuyers and for small businesses extending the tax deduction from $5,000 to $50,000. >> we have heard a lot about those plans. your campaign slogan is a new way forward and it is time to turn the page. you have been vice president for

three and a half years so what are you turning the page from? >> first of all turning the page from the last decade in which we have been burdened with the kind of rhetoric coming from donald trump that has been designed and implemented to divide our country and have americans literally point fingers at each other. rhetoric and an approach to leadership that suggests the strength of a leader is based on who you beat down instead of the strength of leadership is based on who you lift up. host: that was a portion from her interview with fox news. you can see more of it at their website. we are asking where you get your political news. someone posting on her facebook site saying -- someone posting on our facebook site saying he goes to multip sources. re--- marie saying newsnation and foxbusiness and also i

connect the dotsrom all of the major news media, they'll connt the dots which is so fake. jennifer jones saying i listen to everything. e media, new sites, political fact. that is part of the media diet they consume leading up to an election. let's hear from harry in albany, new york. independent. host: good morning -- caller: good morning. i have been an independent for over 30 years. i don't really watch a lot of local news. i can just pick that up on youtube. as for the national news i wait for msnbc and sometimes i stay up for lawrence o'donnell. during the workday i'd like to listen to podcasts including dan carlin common sense.

we may agree or disagree but he is an excellent presentation. when i get the chance i have subscriptions to foreign affairs and foreign policy. i try to take a broad approach and use the occam's razor, reduce it down to the most common sense. host: harry in new york. coal is from england on the democrats line. hello. go ahead. caller: after all of these years i think the television news channels in america to a good job of the broadcasting of political views and political stories about the election. i get my views -- my political news on the american news. they do a great job. c-span does a good job as well. host: we get a lot of people who

would say to watch a channel like the bbc or other international news and they get more from that versus american news. how does american news differ from what you might see in your country? caller: you do more in views about american politics like the election in america. in this country there are little segments of it. the coverage will increase over the next two weeks. i do rely on a more in-depth conversation with the american television news headlines. host: thank you. there is cole joining us from across the pond to give us his take on political news. you can at doors to the mix like doug in alaska, independent line. caller: good morning.

i get my news from cable and i stay away from a lot of the obvious bias people -- commentators, i do not think they are news people. they have their own agenda for the agenda of the people they work for like cnn or fox. the podcasts to me are very important. a lot of youtube, i watch the debates and congressional hearings. i try to keep up on almost all of them. i like to get the information from the horses mouth. it is just after a while i think most people would probably understand that after a while you hear one new server say one

thing and there obviously biased -- they are obviously biased towards one of the other candidates. it is a little bit too much to swallow. you try to find the debates or interviews on youtube -- that is a good resource. host: do you have a favorite political podcast? caller: i don't have a favorite. i jump around a lot. to be honest i try not to remember too many of them. i like the way bret baier did his thing with kamala yesterday. i thought that was more of the hardball questions.

kamala needs to do more of those mainstream interviews. she was brave by going on fox. it is not enough. we are not getting any serious substance from her. for me she is kind of an unknown. as far as what i can find out as far as the history of her, it does not gel with what she says. i am sorry. that is the way i see that. host: that is dug in alaska giving us his thoughts. let's hear from ralph in virginia. republican line. caller: hello. how are you doing this morning? host: i'm doing well. how about you? caller: i am doing fine.

c-span is more honest than the others. what i usually watch is fox and cnn. sometimes newsmax. maybe nbc. c-span is more honest. you have c-span and you have cnn. cnn is biased to kamala harris, fox is biased to trump. they do not report like they used to when you had those old-timers that were reporters. you have the facts now, you get their opinion and not the facts. that is the way it goes. like kamala harris, i look at both of them trying to get their views. i look at trump. as far as the views and how they're are going to solve the problems, it looks like trump is

more biased than she is and she will not answer the questions. she will skirt around them whenever in and so forth. the thing she says like the $25,000 credit to new homebuyers, she know she cannot do that, it has to go through the house. it is just terrible what we get from cnn and fox that is mostly the two i watch. i am really disappointed with them but i really appreciate c-span and i thank you for being on there and listening to us and that is about what i have to say. host: ralph in virginia giving us his thoughts. you can call the lines, you can post online, and tell us where you get political news. the viewers mentioned fox. they hosted a town hall yesterday hosting women friendly

to the former president being reported. this is from the hill. "former president trump and foxes townhall call himself the father of ivf and claimed credit for the fertility treatment conservative supreme court justices through into uncertainty by overturning roe v. wade." here's a portion from that town hall yesterday. [video clip] >> you want to talk about ivf. i am the father of ivf so i want to hit this question. >> welcome back to georgia. we are so happy you are here. we are all very blessed to be here with you. i am the mother of three small children and i have many friends who've struggled with fertility issues while trying to grow their families. while they are pro-life they are concerned the abortion bands will affect their ability to access ivf and other treatments. although abortion does lie with the states what is your stance on that and what would you say

to those women? >> i got a call from katie britt, a young fantastically attractive person from alabama. she is a senator and she called me up like emergency because an alabama judge had ruled the ivf clinics were illegal and had to be closed down. a judge ruled and she said friends of mine came up to me and they were so angry. i did not know they were going. it was fertilization. i do not know they were involved. now that they cannot do it she said i was attacked in a certain way. i said explain ivf very quickly. within about two minutes i understood. i said we are totally in favor of ivf. i came out with a statement within an hour, a really powerful statement with some experts, really powerful, and we went totally in favor. the republican party -- alabama

legislature a day later overturned the judge and approved it. we are the party for ivf. we want fertilization all the way. the democrats tried to attack us on it and we are out there on ivf even more than them. we are totally in favor of it. host: that was from fox yesterday. let's hear from mississippi, independent line. caller: i wanted to say three things. i mostly listen to npr, which i really enjoy. they're all things considered program. obviously the editorial stuff can be hit and miss like any editorial stuff. there is one thing i wish i could afford. i am on a fixed income that i cannot afford. the thing i cannot afford is the economist. if i had the resources i would

love to be able to subscribe to the economist every week. i think it is a great magazine that does a great job of the big picture. the one thing i'm grateful for -- npr is good for general coverage but if you want to learn about economic crisis or any problems in the world i think amy goodman's "democracy now!" from pacifica is beyond comparison in terms of deep dives into things like the israel/palestine war or back when the economic crash happened in 2008 they were right there from the beginning talking about it. they are great. host: i hope i said your name right. sorry about that. thanks for calling. betty is next, massachusetts. democrats line. caller: i get my news from pbs,

c-span, and youtube from heather richardson who i think is absolutely brilliant. msnbc, rachel maddow and larry o'donnell. i watch fox news every day just for a few minutes to see their opinion of anything. usually i find whatever every other station says foxes the opposite. everything on fox is to divide and scare the living daylights out of everybody. i subscribe to mother jones. i must've read at least 25 or 30 books on trump written by x republicans. i will tell you something. the thing that scares the living daylights out of me this election is if trump wins, i cannot tell you how many people are going to leave this country -- seriously, they've already made plans to leave the country. i feel like the only ones will be left will be the billionaires

and the poor people like me. i am elderly, i am in my 80's, i cannot afford to leave the country. this is my biggest fear. as far as i am concerned trump is criminally insane and he tells you right on the news he will get even. everybody is going to leave. all the journalists he threatens to put in jail and all of the jimmy kimmel live!, stephen colbert, all of these people will leave. any by that has enough money to leave will leave. host: let me ask you about a name you mentioned, heather coxe richardson. why is she worth listening to? caller: i listen to her on youtube and she has an article. she is positively brilliant. host: what did she write about or what to she talked about normally? caller: she is a presidential historian. she teaches at bu and mit and

talks about what is going on. she says the republicans are not trying to win, they are trying to steal the election. they know they cannot win so that all they are doing is trying to steal it. she says do not believe the polls. the polls are lying to you. trump wants people to think he is going to win so when harris wins they will think the election is stolen. host: betty in massachusetts. let's hear from romain in virginia. republican line. caller: i get my news from npr, "the new york times, the bbc, amy goodman's democracy now! is one of the only news outlets in america that tells the truth about what is happening in gaza

and palestine with the idf. i also listen to al jazeera english outages era arabic. -- and al jazeera arabic. they have been telling the truth about what is happening in gaza. now we have 100 american troops in israel, boots on the ground, we are going to get involved in this genocide. i also listen to amanpour and company and i read the washington post and the new york times.

and i listen to washington journal, c-span. i really appreciate your program. host: thank you. that is romain in virginia. this is allie from facebook saying while it is true that most if not all news houses stretch the truth, i must confess fox news does raise my blood pressure. i am a news junkie and i watch and read most of major news. if y from texas in new ey saying i have a digital cription to the appptimes and get political -- to the epoch times and get news from the mouth of politicians. the epoch times orts facts only. adding no fox, msnbc, cnn, abc, cb nbc. they are all one sided. this is glenn in new york saying he gets his political news from

everywhere or else you're getting lfhe story. it is cnbc, nsnation, newsmax, watching our network as well. texting us as a way you can reach out and let us know your thoughts on where you get political news. we will take your thoughts on the food lines for the next half-hour -- on the phone lines for the next half-hour. (202) 748-8001 for republicans, (202) 748-8000 democrats. independents (202) 748-8002. text us at (202) 748-8003. if you've called in the last 30 days if you can hold off on calling again. also: the line that best represents you. you are on, go ahead. caller: i am enjoying your show this morning. i get my news and information

and my news source is the real news source for me as c-span. it is totally unfiltered. when they say they are unfiltered they are unfiltered. i do watch msnbc because they are basically unbiased. newsmax and fox news prop trump up too much for me. i tried to be well-rounded as far as the news sources i get so i know what is going on. my mom used to say keep your friends close and your enemies closer. i have always had a problem with that, but it has some validity to it. i do watch. my main sources are msnbc and c-span.

with c-span as far as i am concerned you cannot go wrong because as far as i am concerned they are not biased, they just tell it like it is, whether you like it or not. msnbc is basically the same thing as far as i am concerned. they are not as thorough and unfiltered as c-span is. my first choice as far as my news source and news information will be c-span. host: thank you for calling and letting us know your thoughts. let's hear from michigan on our independent line. hello. caller: hello. i get most of my news from c-span and pbs. i also -- my main source

otherwise is dw news out of germany. i go to bbc. nhk news out of japan. and out of south korea. and cbc out of canada. very seldom do i look at cnn or fox. maybe half a dozen times a week. i find the four new sources give very good political coverage on u.s. news. host: pew research did a survey about local news coverage and what type of information people look to. when asked the question of the percentage of adult who sometimes get news about each topic, it is the weather that tops that list. crime, government, and politics

coming in third of those responding. followed by traffic and transportation, arts and culture, and the economy. among those who get news on the local topics, the percentage of those who are extremely satisfied with the quality of it , with that satisfaction level, the weather coming in at the top category. at the bottom, government and politics news when it comes to that level of satisfaction. when it comes to local news coverage. you can add that to the mix. if local news is something you watch for political news and you get something like that. suzanne in maine, republican line. caller: good morning. i am suzanne johnson from kittery, maine. the best news and unbiased and true comes right from washington, d.c. ralph nader.

ralph nader's newsletter is something not to be missed. it is so interesting and mind-boggling. you have to understand what he is saying. you have to appreciate the intelligence and investigation he does to put out the newsletter. ralph nader. host: is this a newsletter you get by email or is this physical, how does it work? caller: is on the internet. you go to ralph nader.com and you have his newsletter you can subscribe and it comes to your email. the other one is friends of animals action news. people think americans -- the whole world thinks they are the

only species on earth. there are other species that we live with and they are disappearing. they have their own problems and they need to be heard. if humans do not speak with them we continue to lose species other than the human race, which are losing themselves by killing each other. there is hope. friends of animals out of connecticut has action lines and is a very good newsletter that involves people and laws and animals. thank you. host: suzanne. let's hear from jason in florida. independent line. caller: i have a wide friday of new sources i would like to verify -- i have a wide variety of new sources i would like to verify facts.

the media, like the 6:00 hour at msnbc, the 7:00 hour with erin burnett on cnn, rachel maddow. fox news, here is where the pandemic starts. you have a new source that judges have called an entertainment news source for their later afternoon hours. this is where it goes back to the beginning of nazism where fake news was the slogan hitler had used and this is just following right in place for trump to use fake news. when you have to disregard every fact being presented to you by the unbiased media sources

because it does not match with your understanding you are getting from friends sources online or fox news, the entertainment source, this is where we have a big problem with misinformation and disinformation. that is literally the fungus that has grown on the walls of our republic. host: mary is next in south carolina. democrats line. caller: good morning. the best place you can hear from the person themselves is to search. if you have tubi or youtube all you have to do is go to search and type in who you want to investigate and hear what they have to say. if you want to know more about donald trump or what he had to say from childhood all the way up to adult, all you have to do is type in trump and everything

will pull up and you can hear what he has to say all through his life up to now. i like to hear from the person, what they have to say. i do not believe everything the news is saying. the best thing is to hear from the horses mouth. that is with kamala or anyone you want to know about. go in the search and type in the name and everything will come up and you can watch it and here it. that is how i learned a lot about his history of what he is trying to do. kamala, all of it. that is the best because you hear right from the horses mouth. that is the best news you can get. documentaries. documentaries are made where you can hear -- i saw a documentary that had c-span on it, had fox, msnbc, all of it.

all of the different parties like the democrats and independents, to me that is your best because you are hearing from the people, not the news people. it comes directly out of their mouth. to me that is the best news. host: that is mary in south carolina. the vice president sat down this week in an interview with the radio host charlamagne tha god talking about her economic agenda. there is of that interview. [video clip] >> i have been in this race about 70 days. you can look at my work before those days to know what i'm talking about right now is not new and not for the sake of winning the election. this is a long-standing commitment, including the work i have done as vice president and before when i was senator and before that. a lot of what i am doing is about my economic agenda and opportunity economy was born out

of the work i did as vice president and before that as senator most recently to get access to capital for our entrepreneurs. the work i did in the senate was about getting a couple billion more dollars into our community banks and building on that when i became vice president. i created the economic opportunity council, bringing in some of the biggest banks and technology companies to put more into the community banks. one of the reasons why. i've been a lawyer for years. black entrepreneurs only get 1% of venture capital funding. only 1% goes to black entrepreneurs. we do not have the same rates of access to capital, be it family or through connections. this is why i have done the work of putting billions more dollars in working for billions more dollars into commute he banks which go directly to the community. my work around the $20,000 is building on that and

understanding -- i convened a group of black entrepreneurs way before i was running for president in my official office at the white house. to hear some of the obstacles they were facing and one of them was what we need to do around getting folks that help to just be able to buy the equipment they need to run their business. often times we find that when black entrepreneurs and black people apply for credit, they are denied at a higher rate than others. we have also seen come in the data proves this, that the realities also tend to dissuade black folks and black entrepreneurs from applying for credit. my point is to work on every way we can approach the issue to encourage people and invest in

their ambition. i know the ambition is there. i know the talent is there. i know the innovation is there. certainly the hard work ethic. this is not new work for me. host: let's hear from david, new york, republican line. caller: good morning. how are you? host: i am fine. caller: i think everything collapses in terms of media. we had something called the fairness doctrine. i would like everyone to research the fairness doctrine. if you remember what cnn was like in the 1980's and 1990's, they had worldwide bureaus. real journalists, people that were there that had 25 or 30 years of providing information, people like walter cronkite who were there just report the news. now what i find is people in the

media are leading their own personal narrative, corporate narrative, their own belief systems. last night kamala harris had an interview on fox with bret baier. she was abysmal. i don't know if you saw it but i am sure you did. she was very weak and her answers were so rehearsed and were not asked in a certain order she falls apart. i am watching cbs this morning and the soundbites from cbs this morning were her making points against trump and looking like she aced the interview. trump has an interview with the latino channel, they played every single baddest soundbite. it has been proven, abc, cbs, nbc, 90% of the reporting on harris and 90% of the reporting

is negative. getting back to the fairness act. is that fair? is that real reporting? i believe there is an interface -- and i did not want to sound like a conspiracy theorist -- there is an interface between the corporate media and the powers that be, those 100 republicans who are talking bad about trump in the military-industrial complex or what i call the media industrial complex who has a certain story they want to tell. i will bring you back to the hunter biden laptop. 51 national security experts -- top people in the government you're supposed to be protecting the country allied on a letter written by antony blinken who has an agenda to have a war in ukraine. i will go back to the fairness doctrine. the fact that we are being fed

not what we need but what we want. host: that is david in new york. let's hear from john in california. democrats line. caller: thank you. i think there is not really any political news reporting. what i used to really like is the nightly business report on pbs. you may think that just has to do with business. if you would watch that report, it was a pulse on what was existing, what was happening. there are things that are determined already. legislation that has happened, positions that have happened, and then there is the undetermined. who will win the election and that sort of thing. there was a meltdown by donald trump the other day and i only saw it on youtube and it was

reported here and there he stood there for half an hour and swayed to the music and all of that. that actually happened. when i tune in, i like c-span, i watch that regularly. when you see people on the floor talking, legislators, senators, congresspeople. anytime i've watched mainstream. there is a difference between mainstream and podcasts and other things like that. when i watch these things they do not give direct answers. they have a position. you just played a trip of kamala harris going into detail about entrepreneurs and the funding they need and all of that. everything under the sun in this country that is politically managed, there is a status quo. there is something going on. how did that work out? how did the legislation worked

out? many people have been in office for how long? what are their age groups. all of that stuff you could ask about political news and what has changed. there is not a place where you can go to get a holistic look at the condition of the body politic in this country. there is so much division right now. that is what you get. they take a stand and that is the answer they give. i just wish i had more of an idea of what is going on in the body politic in america. it is frightening everybody. host: john in california. let's hear from connecticut, republican line. rick is next. caller: thank you for having me on. i somewhat -- this last caller

phrase things reasonably well. i feel like we do not have a lot of data. i just listened to that speech you folks had with vice president harris. it is a lot of cheerleading as well as on the republican side a lot of cheerleading but no data to back this up. that is what i would like from news media is actual data to say this part of the country diminishes forces other folks to go elsewhere for business loans or what have you. who are these folks that are doing this if that actually exists. the rest of the country can come together as a group and say you cannot pick a group and avoid

lending them money or what have you. there is no real raw data to back these things up. i find that your program, i just started to really listen to cnn in the past few months once president biden dropped out of the race. i wanted to find real data and not msnbc or nbc and not even fox news because they go one side or the other. i do listen to different podcasts from different folks. no one provides these percentage pieces of data. i would look to you folks because you seem pretty sharp. on providing some of this follow-up data on things that former president trump said her

vice president harris says so we are educated and we can make -- host: rick in connecticut adding us know his thoughts. one of the podcasts former president trump appeared out recently is called flagrant and he spoke about how the media perceives how he speaks in public and other related issues. here is a clip of the interview. [video clip] >> i do a thing called the weave and there are those that are fair that say this guy is so genius and others that say he rambled. what you do is you weave things in. >> you do it. >> you have to have certain things. you need an extra ordinary memory because you have to come back to where you started. >> you can go all the way over here and get back. >> i can go so far here and

there and i can come back to exactly where i started. it is something if you do not come back to where you started. [laughter] the weave is the way. i was telling a story at a rally in front of thousands of people and i started off and then you weave something into the story. i mentioned air force one. i mentioned air force one and then i said how i got 1.6 billion dollars of the price of air force one, and then you have to come back to the story, where was air force one taking you. i call it the weave. some people think it is so genius. the bad people say he was rambling. it is not a ramble. it is a weave. we have fake news. we came up with lots of names. i thing we should make a weave a part of that staple.

>> i don't even want to know the answer. host: that was from the flagrant podcast. let's hear from marianne. where you go from -- where you go for news. caller: thank you for taking my call. regarding the question you asked, where we get our news, i personally like to channel surf the news. msnbc, cnn, c-span, cbs, abc, every single day morning noon and night. i go through the situation room, rachel maddow, the morning joe show, joy read -- joy reid. i watch them all. i point this out to everyone i talked to. these shows are the mouthpieces for the democratic party. the view, rachel maddow, joy

reid, morning joe, they are the mouthpiece for the democratic party. i also notice the brainwashing of the general public who believe what they are saying. they think united states citizens do not have any -- on who to vote for. that is old time thinking. anyone can think for themselves and these shows, every single day, rachel maddow, joy reid, it is brainwashing. it is literally brainwashing telling you you have to vote for this, you have to vote -- is ridiculous. republic -- the public is getting tired of it. they are really getting tired of it. we are not stupid people.

we can vote who we want to vote for. stop being one-sided and tell both sides. host: that is marianne in indiana. let's hear from josie in new york. democrats line. caller: good morning. i have never watched news because i do not like it unless it is something like an emergency. for the past three or four months i've been watching c-span because there's not a lot of propaganda in between. they get opinions of people, which is nice. the american public. i really enjoyed the show. sometimes i watch a podcast and i see news if there is an emergency i will watch the news quick and just get through it. i am not a news person watch her. the lady just said previously that people are brainwashed. that goes both ways. people do get brainwashed, which

is really sad. you have to come to your own opinions on what you think is right or wrong or your convictions. i do appreciate being able to call in and i wish everybody the best and god bless everybody and have a wonderful day. host: josie in new york. leno in canada joining us on the independent line. caller: how are you? host: i am fine. caller: i get my news or my information -- i watch msnbc, cnn and a lot of podcasts. and obviously c-span. you had a caller that said they are getting brainwashed. it is not brainwashing it is the facts. msnbc and cnn, i do not watch too much cnn.

it is facts. they are not lying. it is where people get their information. it is not brainwashing, it is just the facts. host: what you think about your own broadcast network in canada, the cbc? caller: for some reason i am stuck on american politics. at times i do watch it but i am so into american politics. i just want to say kamala harris did awesome last night. she did very well, considering it was fox. we don't get fox up here. host: leno in canada. if you go to the canadian

broadcasting company their headline story is about that fox news interview the vice president participated in, part of the news coverage wherever you get your news. viewers have been telling us for the last hour about local news and where you get it. we will hear from angel in washington state. independent line. caller: guess who is there, it is mr. pedro. i will tell you that my main go to sources for news and all kinds of different information is -- i am addicted to the drudge report. i look at that daily. it is total click bait but it has a lot of good info. i also have a lot of sub stack channels i like to visit. i have learned so many things from substack's channels,

especially about cancer cures which is an amazing learning thing, and of course washington journal. i am addicted to you guys. i've been watching this forever. 4:00 every morning, i am in washington state and i get up. and dr. john campbell on youtube came out and exposed the tragedy of the massive deaths from the plot shot, we will just call it that. for tv i switch from cnn to fox news. i interchangeably switch to both of them because i want to see both views of the left and the right. that is out i have been. as far as getting my news sources, i like to spread it out.

get everyone's views. i do not like to feel like i'm just one-sided all the time. i think that is important. host: one more call from mel in new york. democrats line. caller: i get my news from midas touch network. the reason is because they provide a lot of information we do not get on mainstream media such as cnn, fox, msnbc, abc, the rest of the networks. host: new york, democrats line finishing off this hour. all of you who: participed, thank you. two guests joining us this morning. we'll be hearing from polluted fact founder bill adair who discusses his new book examining why politicians like. later a discussion of political news of the day with columnist cal thomas.

those interviews coming up on "washington journal." ♪ >> american history tv saturdays on c-span2. organ the people and events that tell the american story. starting at 2:00, for tyrone -- fort ticonderoga in new york hosted its annual discussion on the american revolution. highlights included canadian went from a beautiful subject of the british crown committed revolutionary. then watch american history tv series historic presidential elections, exploring what made

these elections historic. the pivotal issues of different euros and their lasting impacts on the nation. this week, the election of 1960. democratic massachusetts senator john kennedy narrowly defeated incumbent republican vice president richard nixon. this is the first election in which all 50 states participated. and that in :00 p.m. eastern on lectures in history, communications professor michael cerrado leo on how -- connects americans to their past and culture. exploring the american story. watch american history tv saturdays on c-span 2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at c-span.org/history. >> do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god?

>> weeknights, watch our encore presentation of the pt series congress investigates as we explore major investigations by the u.s. house and senate in our country's history. authors and historians will tell the stories, we will see historic footage and we will examine the impact and legacy of key congressional hearings. tonight, committees in 1993 and 1995 examine the events surrounding the deadly 1993 c's carried out by the federal government and other law enforcement agencies near waco, texas. watch tonight at 10:00 eastern on c-span 2. washington journal continues. host: our first guest of the morning is bill adair, the founder of political fact and also the author of "the epidemic of political line, why republicans do it more, and how is -- our democracy."

guest: thanks for having me. host: you start this book with an instance of when you were on the show years ago. we will show the clip, but set that up for us. guest: in many ways, this frames one important part of the book. i was here in 2012, answering questions about our work on the 2012 election, and a caller called in on the democratic line , ryan from michigan. and brian asked, he said he had read in "the nation" that republican live more and live worse, that they had tallied up fact-checks by "politifact" and by the washington post and he wanted to know what i said about that. host: the me pause you there, we will show and then give your response. [video] >> isn't it true that political

fact, your nearest competitor had listed in general statements of republican vs. democrat that almost seven out of 10 were given to the republicans? democrats light almost as much, but republicans lied more. isn't that true? >> i can honestly say i don't keep score. host: that's what you said in 2012, so fill in the rest of it. guest: i was lying. we did keep score. we didn't keep score by party, but we kept score and still do by individual. so you can easily look through the prominent republicans and compare them to the prominent democrats, and see that brian was right. but i lied, and i lied because i was trying to show that we were impartial.

and this is really important in washington journalism, to show that you are not taking sides. the challenge with fact checking is that it is kind of a rough-and-tumble form of journalism, and you are making calls. that is important, that is what political fact checking is all about. but in doing so, we see this unmistakable pattern that we will talk about in a bit, but i am -- other fact checkers didn't answer that question when i got asked that question, when i gave speeches and other tv appearances because i was trying to show my impartiality that we were truly nonpartisan in what we did, and that is still a core principle of "politifact", that it looks at both parties equally, it looks at each statement individually.

but this pattern is unmistakable and now that i no longer work for "politifact", that i'm a faculty member at duke, i can talk about it freely. and i think as a nation we need to talk about it. because the fact that there are so many lies coming from the republicans, it's really affecting our discourse. host: and that brings us to the book, "beyond the big lie." (202) 748-8001 republicans. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. independents, (202) 748-8002. you can text us at (202) 748-8003. what is the value in lying in politics? guest: that is interesting. what i realized as i started to research the book is that as a journalist i had never asked that question. i had never asked a politician why do you lie? why do politicians lie? it's just one of these things that goes unspoken here in

washington. so i did, and i interviewed a bunch of politicians and political operatives and ask them why they lied. so the value is a calculation. it's like instant math. the politician or the political operative will make the decision we are going to gain more from this lie than we are going to lose. and that is especially easy today with a media environment that shelters people from contrary views, that shelters people from contrary facts. and so it's very easy for politicians to live. so why? ambition is sort of the number one reason that people gave. politicians live because they think it helps them. it helps them with their constituents, it helps them with their party base, it helps them raise money.

so that's really the biggest reason. host: >> the consequence of lying these days? guest: some people say there is no consequence, and that's the problem. i think it used to be, and some people said to me it used to be that politicians would feel ashamed if they were caught in a lie, but what has changed is with gerrymandering and with partisan media, there's less pressure on politicians when they are caught in a lie. it's not like they go home to their districts and the constituents are like, hey, i saw that the washington post said this. i don't think that happens very often and i think politicians are sheltered from being held accountable, and so it's easier than ever to live. the partisan media also becomes

an echo chamber for the liar. if you look at some of the lies that other fact checkers have been following, partisan media just repeats these lies, and they sort of become conventional wisdom even though they are not true. host: when you say partisan media, clarify that. guest: so i would say that cable news channels are on the right. foxx, newsmax, in durham talking to a trump supporter watches newsmax to get his information. they read conservative blogs, they listen to talk radio. on the right, msnbc, they read liberal blogs. they are very distinct news

media echo chambers that i think prevent people often from seeing the facts that are contrary to what they want to believe. and this is more prevalent on the right. we saw in the dominion case when foxx didn't go along with the lies the 2020 election, they lost viewers. and so there is an economic incentive i think to chime in and protect the politicians. host: to what degree do you think there is equity in calling out eliza former president trump would say or vice president harris, if she tells a lie? guest: and that is done every day. when i was editor of political fact, we would try everyday to make sure that we were examining

both parties. but there's just no comparison between those two candidates in terms of the volume of lies. donald trump is unmatched in american history in terms of the volume and repetition of his lies. he will double down on things as he has on the false claim that immigrants in springfield, ohio were eating dogs and cats. and that is a great case study. that claim was thoroughly examined and many media organizations, not just the fact checkers, but other media organizations that went to springfield, talk to people, and yes, it just got repeated and repeated, distilled geg repeated today. host: why republicans do it more and how it can burn down our democracy.

dan is in california, go ahead. caller: i just find it a little bit ironic that you have a book that is targeting republicans which we are a diverse group of people, religions, ethnic lines, where we come from in the world. we are not all americans, native born. and you're just sort of labeling us like that, and in the title of your book is the big lie, and you open with a 2012 clip where you yourself said you lied. i mean, i don't know if you have a nondisclosure or ndaa, but you capitalized on it, you are a capitalist. i get that you're selling a book, i just think it is rich and that is my comment. i don't understand how you can

write a book about people that live and" yourself that you lied when asked that exact question. guest: thanks for that comment, and i think you need to look at the opening scene in the greater context of the book. my point was that i think journalists need to talk about this disparity. now, that's hard for fact checkers in particular, but i do think journalists and really the nation needs to confront this. this is crippling our political discourse, we can have serious conversations about climate, about immigration because there is such a disparity in lying. the whole idea of opening with myself lying was to confess that even i did it, but then to make the point that we need to have

this conversation. host: richard is in maryland, democratic line. caller: good morning, gentlemen. i appreciate the conversation. i just want to ask a couple quick questions. could you comment on the quality of the line that is going on today as opposed to 20 years ago, and also, if you believe that there is a moral universe, the quality and quantity of the line is going forth right now is such a level that it is the wind that is driving the sales of the uss america. and with that, we have to be going to a bad place because as johnnie cochran once said, flyers shall not go unpunished, and our space now, political space is so upfront with flying

that it is overwhelming. like with trump the other day, he was saying he save the aca, obamacare. and it was clearly john mccain everybody knows it. everybody has seen it, yet they proceed to tell those same whoppers. and i just think that if you could make it make sense, make a comment about the quality of the line now. guest: thanks for the question. so i think the biggest difference is the volume, as richard was indicating. if you go back to -- and one thing i do in the book is i have a chapter that is about the history of political lying, i call it the lying hall of fame. the thing about when you go back in time, there just wasn't the sort of repetition of individual allies like there is today. now, equality is a difficult

thing to measure, but if you look at president johnson's lies lead to an escalation of the vietnam war, and lead to of additional decks that were unnecessary. so lies have consequences, they always have. president johnson is in my hall of fame. other lies from the past seem almost quaint today. i have a chapter about a lie told in the 2012 campaign by the romney campaign, and it had to do with a television commercial that the campaign aired that claimed falsely that jeep was moving its production from ohio to china. and looking back, the chapters from each report, because i got into the machinations of the romney campaign decision about

that and talk to someone in the campaign didn't want them to do this. so that lies seems quaint compared to the think that we are dealing with now. to the point that it is overwhelming, it is overwhelming. and that's one of the reasons i wrote the book, to sort of help people realize, ok, this is a serious problem now and we need host: to talk about it. host:former president nixon is on the hall of fame, facebook is on it, and then you have the fox news couch. guest: my idea was to write a history chapter without it looking like a history chapter. i work with my students and other faculty members to decide who and what deserved to be in the lying hall of fame. so it includes president

clinton, it includes of course donald trump, richard nixon, but then i included people and organizations that i think play a big role in establishing different ways that politicians live. so others in the hall of fame include big tobacco for its lies about the safety of smoking, exxon mobil for its long campaign to deny climate change, and the couch on fox and friends, which i say in the book is a launching pad for lies and a place where in a very sly way, i think false claims get said every day. host: bob is in virginia, independent line. caller: yeah, thanks for taking my call. you know, there is a lot of

lying that goes on from various politicians, it happens from the democrats, from the republicans. i think even a larger impact on the population and on the public opinion is the effect of the information that is simply not being told. it is what is not being said that has a huge impact. this is a technique that is used all the time. if you look at the press conferences that are held every day by the white house and the state department, you will hear a lot of standard boilerplate stuff, and most of the very important things, facts are simply not mentioned. and this propels democratic and republican administrations to drive our country into war and to keep the wars going endlessly, just as we have now in ukraine and our support of

this horrible campaign in gaza. this is all driven by not giving people all the information and also by lying as well. this happens from the democrats and republicans. another example is in venezuela, we are being told that the reason why the venezuelan people are suffering so much is because of nicolas maduro, but what is not being told to us is that donald trump put horrendous sanctions on the country of venezuela, which was designed to cause the government to collapse. that was years ago. just one more point, pedro. host: ok. caller: what has joe biden done to change the sanctions? he's done nothing. guest: so to the question about misleading by things not said, i

think that is a valid point. and it's not anything that -- i think journalists would reported, but bob makes a good point that there are not a lot of things that go on said and that creates a misleading impression. i do think that that isn't on the same scale as lying which i think just has really significant consequences. host: how has fact checking as an industry changed because of what you are seeing today when it comes to line? guest: fact checking has grown in the united states in some really positive ways. there are definitely more fact checkers today than there were in 2012 when i was on this program. i don't know the number specifically to the u.s., but there are more. i think the challenge if there

are not enough. we did a study at duke where we looked at where fact checkers are and where news organizations have a staffer or a team dedicated to political fact checking. and we have found there is no political fact checking. so that means in those states, they can talk freely about getting a pass, getting called out by a local television station, and that is really troubling because this is an important point in journalism. it's really important to question what our leaders are saying and assess their accuracy, so i think one of the things we need is more fact checking, even more than we have

today. host: arkansas, democrats line, you next up. caller: i think it is simply a matter of numbers. as nikki haley pointed out, they've lost seven of the last eight election based on the popular vote. they have to change the truth in order to win. one of the most egregious examples i can remember was right here on c-span, senator johnson from wisconsin described the january 6 riot, described as festive. somebody told him he was there and it was festive. but anyway, that is my point. it is a matter of numbers. that's the only way they can win. guest: that's a point that some

people made to me that is in the book. and that is that one reason for the republican party lie is that with a shrinking base, with a base that is older just demographically, the republican party is challenged, so what people said, and these were democrats, that the republican party to response to that and fire rockets based has to resort to lying. and that is a way to motivate supporters, motivate donors, by creating this false impression of many more problems from immigration than in reality and so on with other issues. host:his is a viewer who writ saying who fact-checks the fact checkers? how do we make sure they are not

serving the cause of the establishment or what you describe as a two-party system? probably not the first time you've heard that. guest: i love that line, i think i wanted on a t-shirt. first of all, the fact checkers welcome scrutiny, and in the case of political fact, we were very transparent about showing our work, showing all the sources that we relied on, all the interviews we did, and so if you look at our fact-check, it really shows deep reporting. the truth reflects a tremendous journalist. so you start with that. i do think fact checkers get lots of scrutiny from critics who question things when they believe fact checkers get things

wrong. fact checkers do get things wrong every now and then. i think the most common thing at "politifact"'s i would hear complaints, i think that rating was wrong. we rate on the truth meter and people would say you gave that half true, i think it should have been mostly false. so there is, i think, a healthy industry almost that does hold fact checkers accountable. host: in 2013 use it for president obama told a lie of the year about health care. if you want your health care, you can keep it. did you get a response from that? guest: i was worried they were going to be people with torches and pitchforks outside our office. we, and a lot of complaints about that. "politifact" draws a lot of interest every year for the lie

of the year. it is an honor that they get out in december, usually, and it recognizes the most significant lie of that political year. but inevitably whatever lie is chosen, some people are happy, other people are not. host: the founder of "politifact" and also the author of "beyond the big lie." john is in ohio, republican line. caller: bill, i've got a question for you. if i hear something on the local news and then i repeat it to a friend of mine, and my lying because it turns out what they said wasn't true? i mean, is it my job to check the local news? the reason i put the question to you this way is i live about 30

miles east of springfield, ohio. and on the local news, i heard the story that haitians in springfield were eating cats and dogs, and this was three or four days before trump ever said it publicly on the national scene. so if he or his team heard it on the local news and then he repeated it, is that necessarily making him a liar? like you stated he was when i first turn this on. that's all it got for you. guest: break question, and that gets to the definition of the word live. fact checkers have wrestled with and i have wrestled with this personally, at what point to something become a lie? it very strict definition is it is a lie when the person saying it knows it is wrong.

but i think more recently, that term has evolved to mean a falsehood that is passed along. so are you a liar for passing information you heard on the news? i don't think any reasonable person would say that. i do think we have an obligation as individuals to check things out before he passed them along. and so you can decide is that source good enough, do you need to look it some other way, but i think one of the problems in our political ecosystem is that too often people pass along things without checking them out. in the case of the dogs and cats, i'm not familiar with the content of those early reports, but i do believe that any politician, not just donald

trump has an obligation to check out what they say before they say it. it is not enough to say i saw this on the news. i think we expect bigger things from our elected officials. host: to what degree do you think consumers are more savvy to lying? guest: i'm concerned that they are not savvy enough. and i think that particularly, and i don't want to broad brush everyone, i think some people don't discern the quality different in different news sources, and one of the things that i would love to see is more media at the schools without just so that younger people come up understanding the difference between different kinds of information sources.

of course, one of the challenges this for older people, how to help them become better consumers. host: a remedy you prescribed to this is some type of that for tax reform, for those politicians starting tax breaks, you want to apply that to lying. guest: you mentioned grover has been very successful in washington. he runs a group called americans for tax reform, and sort of the core focus of his work is the lying pledge, where republicans, and it is overwhelming the republicans, there are only a handful of democrats who signed it, pledge not to raise taxes. in that pledge has really become the culture of the republican party. and grover and this pledge enforced that. so imagine if we were to take

that same approach and use it for lying. if someone with the same leadership and personality that grover has work to start an organization that got politicians to sign a pledge against lying, because the very simple pledge, they wouldn't have to adjudicate. that could be done in campaigns, that could be done by the media, and you can very much see candidates challenging each other. hey, you signed the pledge but you said this thing about me, you are violating the pledge. i think that could go a long way to changing the focus of app politicians think about lying. host: so it would be self policing, so to speak. guest: self policing, but with a

robust debate. you know now that anytime people say things that are questionable, that there is very quickly feedback on social media. hey, so-and-so said this, it was wrong. in-state campaigns we see that. and congressional -- congressional campaigns, we see that. i think that could be the enforcement mechanism, so to speak. host: joyce is in south carolina, independent life, good morning. caller: my question this morning is why so many christians believe that they live. if they believe that jesus christ, the word of god says i am the way, the truth and the light, so if i wasn't a christian, i would never become a christian the way these christians believe that they lie

and are behind trump. explain that please. guest: i don't know that i can. i think supportive politicians who lie goes beyond faith, in many ways. i'm not sure i have a good answer to that. host: you do right in the book that sometimes it makes it easier that way. guest: yes, i think increasingly politicians aim for that base because they find that one, it is easier than ever to reach them through targeted advertising, through their media. it's less important for them to go through the news media to get their message out, so yes, it can be very targeted to the base. host: bill joins us from

washington state, republican. caller: hey bill, my name is bill. i've never called in, and sorry i'm a little bit nervous. i'd like to talk about the stories in the mainstream media that frankly don't get covered. i've been following this story since 2008. warren buffett started buying all the railroads in the business news, all the railroads are losing money, why would you buying railroads? and during that time, he strongly was backing president obama, and suddenly he is

starting to build export plants in washington state and oregon, which are very liberal states, and suddenly he's transported endless amounts of oil and coal through washington and oregon. host: what would you our guests to answer? guest: -- caller: i'd like you to explain why some stories just get dropped and not covered after it's obvious that there is a lot of answers in them. guest: that's a great question, and the answer is simply resources in a shrinking news media. i don't know what part of the

state of washington your from but if you look at the media in seattle, the seattle local media is much smaller today than it was in 2012 when i first was on this program, for 10 years before that when i wrote a book about a plane crash involving a boeing airplane. with fewer journalists, editors have to make decisions about what they cover or don't cover, and so on any given day, any editor will tell you they've got a dozen or more stories that any reporter could do, and they've got to decide what can be done. and so they make the best choice they can, but as a result, some stories go uncovered. host: what impact has social media done to the world of line? guest: social media has been

great for lying. social media has been a giant megaphone that has spread lying so much faster than we ever had before. and i think you go back to we started fact in 2007, that was the year that facebook was just getting going in 2007. and so when we were looking at how people passed on lies, they were using chain emails. so your uncle bob would send an emailed to everyone in his address book that would have false claims about barack obama. that is much less of a problem today because it is so easy and frictionless to spread things over social media. host: so is that also a form of

political advertising? when it comes to lying in the lies that are spread through political advertising. guest: political advertising has gotten, as you would expect, much more sophisticated in a digital age. campaigns can target very narrowly constituencies that they are trying to win over with specific advertising. but the difference is it used to be that fact checkers would watch tv to see the ads. now because so many of them are digital and show up on websites or can be sent on streaming tv, fact checkers don't see them. so it is easier than ever for campaigns and super pac's to get

away with false advertising because the fact checkers never see them. host: virginia beach, democrats line. caller: high there. i am 82, and i am an absolute junkie for the news right now. i've been aware of politics most of my life, and what concerns me now is that it is such a left and right culture right now, you are either lying or you are either lying or you're telling the truth. and in my opinion, it worries me that if trump gets in, the lying will just take over, and we will not be hearing anything of reality. they deny the climate change and what we've just been through

with florida, north carolina and so on. it's climate change, but the republicans do not believe it. they will not accept it. so my question is -- well, my question is i'm fearful. can we get out of this? when i want something and it is black-and-white, and then i go to fox and they just live, live, lie, for example, the kamala interview, both of them yesterday with charlamagne and then the threat, he said ahead of time i'm not giving her questions, she has no idea. she answered the questions

clearly, persistently, and then after it's over i went over to fox and they just lied about what she said. host: thank you. guest: so this is why i do think it is so important to address this. as donnie indicated, there have been so many lies about climate that i think it just makes it impossible for the parties to have a serious conversation about a policy that might address climate change. i think in the case of our politicians, we need to start asking them this question, why did you live about that? that's not a question that gets asked often enough. host: forma vice president mike pence comes up.

guest: he comes up because i talk about my experience with mike who is a former neighbor, and watching him move up through the ranks and light increasingly, and then of course when he became trump's vice president, stood by and really could have spoken up and said these things are not true. one thing that was particularly troubling to me was after the election, so he certified the election, but then continued to pay lip service to the false claims about the 2020 election. and i just think that is very destructive and the subtitle of my book is how we could burn down our democracy. i think the lies about the election are really worrisome.

because the result in things like threats against election workers, they make people question the validity of election results i think unfairly, and i write this in the chapter, sort of watching his evolution, it struck me that ambition overtook honesty. host: on our independent line, this is from georgia. emmanuel, hello. caller: good morning. real quickly, who defines a lie? the cultural context -- this cultural context have any bearing on line, and here's the question i want you to answer. well, those two, but this one. did christopher columbus discovered america? host: guest: so who defines a

lie, it seems to me that the process of checking the politicians say is in some cases, particularly for presidential candidates, robust. everywhere they say is scrutinized. i think the news media does a good job of telling what is true or false. i think there's a distinction probably with candidates at the lower levels because they just don't get the scrutiny that they need. with so few fact checkers, politicians are free to say anything they want. host: the other question if you want to take it on? guest: i will leave that one to historians. host: beyond the big lie. thank you for joining us today,

thank you. guest: thanks for having me. host: political news, particularly with camping 2024. washington journal continues. ♪ >> sunday night on q&a, whole foods co-founder john mackey and harvard university psychology professor steven pinker discussed their books. the rise of the whole foods grocery store chain and his political and intellectual development. >> lst with the first psychedelic i everyday when i was 19 or 20, and that kind of took me off the conventional

path. everybody else is moving down the assembly line because i realized that the universe is so much bigger, more complex, more awesomely magnificent been realized. >>, professor steven pinker shares his book which looks at the role it plays in the functioning society and the growth of irrationality in the united states. >> the whole attitude that when it comes to questions about the future, the past, the origin of things, we should look to science, we should look to experts, that is very alien to the brain. >> you can listen to q&a and all of our podcasts on our free app.

announcer: at the 2024 presidential campaign continues, american history tv presents historic presidential elections. learn about the pivotal issues of different euros, uncover what navies elections historic, and their lasting impact on the nation. this saturday, the election of 1960. >> and for those misfits of america who are still denied rights and opportunities, i say there shall be the greatest progress in human rights since the days of lincoln. >> we stand today on the edge of a new frontier. a frontier of the 1960's. the frontier of unknown opportunities. a frontier of unfilled hopes and unfilled dread. >> democratic senator john kennedy defeated incumbent republican vice prt richard nixon. watch historic presidential elections, saturda 7:00

p.m. eastern on american history tv on c-span 2. washington journal continues. host: cal thomas is a syndicated columnist and the author of a book. welcome to washington journal. guest: please tell me i don't look that old. host: even wanting politics for a long time. what do you think about what you're going to see? >> it's always about turnout and it always has been. that's why both vice president harris and donald trump are trying to motivate their base and encourage them to get out and vote. one of the things that confirmed that concerns me, george sampled a lot of evangelical christian vote that has largely been behind trump. many of them are saying they are so disgusted by both candidates that they are planning not to vote at all. if that comes through on election day, i don't think it

necessarily will, but if it does, i think that gives the advantage to vice president harris. host: you say tearch indicating that 104 million people have -- are unlikely to vote. 32 million self identified christians. >> i think it is a dereliction of their civic duty. we have an obligation in a free society. we have a lot of religious language and our founding documents. the pledge of allegiance speaks of being under god. and on many buildings here in the city, there are references to moses and the law and other religious language. so i think if you want to maintain the kind of freedom that we enjoyed including the freedom to worship god if you are a believer or not, you have to get out and vote for those people who you believe will be the best defenders of that right to believe.

host: we had a color in the last segment. how can christians over donald trump? guest: first off, that question was raised about bill clinton and interestingly on the others because many evangelical christians said then that character was everything when it came to bill clinton. now apparently they have thrown that overboard in character doesn't matter so much anymore. we used to settle for what was called the lesser of two evils. now it appears we've moved the people of two lessers. host: can you expand on that? guest: i think of leadership as a reflection of followership. we tolerate a lot of things that happen in this country. massive national debt approaching $35 trillion. no nation has ever been able to survive that kind of debt. open borders, uncontrolled immigration without assimilation. in a completely different context, in olden days, the

glint of stocking with look at something shocking. now heaven knows anything goes. people are afraid to stand up and say anything is wrong, all traces of equal value and what you have than i think is the polluting of the moral water table. i read a previous book called america's expiration date and any one of those three things but i just mentioned, the debt, open borders or a lot of a shared moral value system, any one of them has contributed to the decline of a great nation. we have existed longer as a country than any other democracy in history. what makes us think that violating those principles that other nations violated would not bring us to the same end? host: where are you on former president trump? guest: it's been a great struggle. i voted for him before, but i'm still kind of undecided. i go back and forth. i look at his promises, i'm really interested in his promise to bring in outside auditors to audit the federal government.

the waste, the number of agencies and programs that have long past their sell by date need to be gotten rid of. we do this in business. you have auditors come in, you look at the bottom line and that sort of thing, but we don't do it in government. one of ronald reagan's great lines, the only proof of eternal life in washington is a government program. host: if you want to asking questions, (202) 748-8001 republicans. (202) 748-8000 democrats. independents, (202) 748-8002. can you can text us at (202) 748-8003. the former vice president on fox news yesterday. first of all appearing on the network itself, what do you think that says a better campaign? guest: i praise her for doing that. i've done many, many, many liberal networks. i used to appear on the old phil donahue show a lot. this whole idea of balance, i like to work a loan and i had a

letter accusing me of trying to dominate. i said how can he dominate with a new york audience against me and five against one of the panel? what we need to encourage more of that. donald trump specifics, i think she floated like a butterfly but didn't sting like a thief. i think she was very superficial on a number of things, and the one nonanswer, and i was so glad that brett there ask this because nobody else has, nobody, he said madden vice president, you consistently said that president biden was a cognitively ok, and every other democrat who met within said he was engaged, he asked substantive questions, he was completely without all the time, the situation room or wherever it was. clearly that was not the case and that of the reason he withdrew. she absolutely refused to answer that, and by not answering i think she did give an answer. it was host: clearly a cover-up. part of the interview was how

she would differentiate herself from president biden. what was revealed? guest: i don't think it revealed anything. she said i'm not joe biden. ok, but what about policy? if you say you are not joe biden but you are part of the administration for nearly four years now, what does that mean, what would you do differently? she talked to order agents. there were immigration laws passed by republican and democrat congresses and signed by democrat and republican presidents. all you have to do is enforce the laws. you don't need new laws. we don't enforce a lot the laws we have. we are letting people into this country. i compare it to a cup of coffee. take a cap of coffee and you pour water into it, you dilute it. and if you pour it long enough, you replace it. we want immigrants. we want people to become fully american and embrace our values and our constitution, but if your first act coming into america is breaking the law,

that does not bode very well for your future, in my view. host: our first call comes from troy in georgia, independent line. go ahead. caller: i've read you for many years, thank you for taking my call. i'm an independent, i called on the independent line. i took your comment at the beginning of the segment, defendants or christian voters who decide not to cast a vote might be slacking in their civic duty and i want you to convince me to vote. i followed the story of donald trump and the 2020 election. i seen no credible evidence that there was a vast conspiracy to steal the vote. fox news paid a lot of money, they lost key people in their organization because of this.

on the others they see the democratic party that obviously lied, people in that party lied about the state of bidens mental status until the point where he got on national television in the debate, made a total mess out of it and they had to come off of it. then they anointed this candidate who never won a vote. i'm just looking at this and i think a lot of people like me are just really disenchanted with the whole process. i really don't trust either party. i don't think either party has a corner online for being frivolous with the truth and using a lot of misinformation. guest: i usually define politics this way. poly means many, and ticks are bloodsucking insects.

you have two choices. you can encourage other people to run who represent your views and values, or you can run yourself. but just to sit back and watch the tv and say they are all bad, they are all corrupt, it doesn't really help improve the situation. the other thing is that you have to be engaged between elections. you can't just show up on election day and forget about it for four years or two years. you have to be engaged, you have to write your member, when they do town halls you have to show up and ask questions. the activist groups do this, but if you are in active don't participate, i go to the gym, this is why look so good, and a push against the weight in order to build up the muscle. democracy is not the normal state of humanity. if it were, more people in the world would embrace it. we have to constantly renew. reagan used to say we are only one generation away from losing it all. each generation has to renew

these values or they get lost. reagan also said we are only -- well, i already said that. i tend to repeat myself as i get older. host: democrats line, either. caller: hello. i'm just calling because of having a problem with my kids. what going on is that they are saying it's ok to live. because politicians are lying overtime, it's ok for them to lie, and i don't know what to do about it. guest: how did you bring them up, did you ever tell them that you must always tell the truth? caller: i did, but they are pointing at them and saying they're not doing it, why should i? guest: your job as a parent is to try to lead them in the right direction. if they choose another direction, that is on them. you can only hope that they come back someday after seeing the value of resume of the principles that you live by and

you don't lie. if that is the case, they will be impressed by that. are your kids teenagers? is gone. if they are teenagers, they will grow out of it. i know some of minded and some of mine rebelled and later came back, so there's always hope. host: what -- guest: i think a president cannot force people to be moral but he or she can set an example. jimmy carter, i used to go to sunday school with him and watch him teach the bible. i think policies aside that there was never any personal scandal associated with him, and i think he set a good example, especially going to church. for a lot of americans you may have grown tired going to church, i think his example encouraged more to do so. host: eric is in florida, republican line. go ahead. caller: mr. thomas, i'm glad you

are our guest today. i've got something on the same bandwagon with political campaigns. we do have one particular federal agency. i wonder if you have a comment about the federal communications commission? is it their role to some degree to monitor what goes out on advertising? or is that not actually what they do? i thought that agency had been established to at some level talk about truth. guest: we are hearing a lot about that now as the last guest talked about social media, but

people think government ought to be a monitor to what is true, what isn't, what is a lie and what is not. that is a dangerous thing. you have to go back and look at the history of it, created in the 1930's to govern and monitor , broadcasting radio, and later television. it was basically a regulatory agency, and then we got into things like bad language on the air, people wanting the sec to remove the line sentences of broadcast media -- licenses of broadcast media that used words they thought were offensive, and that led to george carlin to do this marvelous comedic act called the seven words you are not allowed to see on tv. if you cannot turn the channel, you can turn it off, and there is a lot of stuff i don't watch because of the language and stuff, but in this society, you

have to allow anything that is not crying fire in a crowded theater when there is no fire, so i'm pretty liberal on that issue. host: -- guest: having been on 60 minutes twice, i oppose that. host: we will hear from bob who joins us in pennsylvania, independent line. caller: good morning and thank you for c-span. i hope we will always have it, but i'm beginning to doubt whether we will or not when i see what is going on. i'm an old man, so it will not affect me very long. i could never understand how adolf hitler got to power. i understand now. he was a man who is looked up to by many germans. unfortunately, i think we are at

the doorstep of what is going to happen to our country if trump wins this election. guest: there is a big difference, if you know your history -- caller: could i just say -- guest: sorry, i thought you were finished. caller: he is going to cut me off, so i would like to say what i'm going to have to say because i don't get the call often. trump is a very dangerous man. i tried to listen to him when he first ran. i stopped listening when he handicapped that mocked journalist. he denied it. i have a picture in my living room of him doing that. he still denies it. a man -- that man is a dangerous person for our country. they are not going to have to take our country apart as long as we handed over to a dictator. host: caller, got your point. guest: i think you started with hitler, the difference between then and now is we do have

checks and balances. we have the three branches of government, and each of those other two would check in the excesses of the executive. trump did not do a lot of the stuff you worry about and his four years in office, and some of this is rhetoric. i don't think, number one, he really means it, and, number two, he would really do it, and, number three, if you tried to do it, he would be stopped by members of congress and possibly the supreme court depending on the issue. so, you know, i know there is a lot of heated rhetoric on both sides, if this person gets elected, the country will be ruined. if the other gets elected, the country will be ruined. so vote intelligently, if you are a religious person, pray for those in authority, and vote. this is how you promote a constitutional republic. host: what do you think of the former president and what he

talks about is more writer lick than reality -- rhetoric than the reality? guest: i interviewed him once in his first run for office, and he has got a great personality, but he is all over the place when it comes to issues. i don't like, and i do agree with vice president harris on her interview last night with fox that he demeans people all the time. the late bob beckel who managed a campaign, we used to do this talk show around the country. we got to know each other and admire each other and love each other. he was my dearest friend, he really was. this was one of the problems of washington today that we face. there are almost no social gatherings anymore, and people don't get to know each other. they fly in on a monday night, members of congress, leave on a friday morning, and they go to their own groups of

republicans and democrats, and they are all the same. there are no personal relationships anymore. i remember when joe lieberman, one of the most honest and decent man to ever serve in congress in modern times, was seen having dinner one night with a member of the opposite party, somebody took a picture and used it against him and his reelection bid in connecticut, and instead of getting the nomination, he did not get it, but he ran as an independent and won because he had so much integrity. that kind of thing with "meeting with someone on the others," i used to say that bob beckel was not on the others, he was my friend. both of our fathers were in world war ii, they were not fighting for franklin roosevelt. they were fighting to preserve the great american ideal, and we have gotten away from that. it is a shame. it is harming us and our political rhetoric. host: let's hear from donna, pennsylvania, democrat.

good morning. go ahead. good morning. hello. caller: i'm sorry, how are you? i'm sorry, the phone was ringing, too. on january 6, when they storm the capital, i was wondering why ? they had those committees, liz cheney -- guest: you need to put your phone on hold. that sounds like a landline. caller: it is. host: go ahead, donna, please. caller: anyway, when they had the january 6 committee, and they showed it on cnn, msnbc, -- i'm on a show, let me call you back. and i turned to fox news, all three stations. with liz cheney and all of them,

all republicans, testifying about the january 6 commission. fox news, you know what they had on? they had [indiscernible] why couldn't fox news supporters get the facts on what happened? instead, they would like to show you but black people looting to scare the american people, and elderly people pretty why do they do that? guest: i think you are mixing two things. i watched fox and cnn coverage, and fox covered a lot of the january 6 committee hearing. they covered the ride at the capital and the threats against mike pence. they interviewed people after the fact, and, yes, there were stories about looting and major cities. i don't know if they were all black people because many had masks and hoods, and it should not matter.

if you are looting and breaking the law, you are looting and breaking the law, no matter your race or gender. that was a separate story related, i think, i would have to look at it again, to the whole notion of it being the law and not crossing lines. i think in that case, that was a good juxtaposition, but i do not agree with you how fox was not equal to the other networks and covering the january 6 riots. host: she mentioned liz cheney, the vice president has republicans for harris. what do you think about that as a strategy? guest: liz cheney voted over 90% for all of trump's legislative recommendations when she was a member of congress. people have their own points of view. i understand that the personality, at least for liz cheney, apparently, and the

behavior and name-calling has overwhelmed her republican point of view, but personality is one thing. these are serious issues about the national debt and immigration, and the crime in our cities, which has gone up, not down, as the administration claims. it is one thing to say, i do not like the guys personality, but you have to focus on the policies. and if you flip and say i will vote for kamala harris, she stands for everything that liz cheney and congress posed, so how do you do that? i understand the personality thing but not the political thing. host: cal thomas is joining us, a syndicated columnist, and an author. for those who may be listening, what is the book about? guest: i started writing my column a little over 40 years ago, over 4000 columns.

a remarkable run. i decided to go back and look at the events that occurred beginning in 1984 when my column started, and then commenting on some of them. it is not a column collection, there is some humor in it, and i'm proud of the person who did the introduction. tom johnson, who opened the doors for me at the l.a. syndicate, became president of cnn, and lbj democrat but very fair and believes in true diversity of ideas. he wrote the introduction, and then i had endorsements from both sides of the political spectrum. henry louis gates junior, who does wonderful african-american shows on pbs, and the host of the late wheel of fortune, so you cannot cover the spectrum wider than that. host: what will the 2024 portion be like for you? guest: i had to stop writing. i may have to do an addendum.

this has been the most amazing and depressing political year i've seen in years. we are not getting issues properly discussed. you're getting evasion, name-calling, demeaning. it is very discouraging. i would like to hear solid debates about israel. what are you going to do to fix the debt? what are you really going to do. trump says he's going to start with all the criminal aliens and deport them. ok, let's say they all came from venezuela. you think venezuela will accept them back if they have deported them to the united states? how's that going to work. i would like to know more details. and we are getting a lot of superficial stuff, and i think the american public is being cheated on their right to know on what people really believe and how they will accomplish what they say they will do. host: should president trump have participated in another debate? guest: absolutely. i think three ought to be a minimum, frankly, and more in-depth interviews.

yes, this is not some kind of right that is conferred upon somebody to be president, you have got to earn it, as kamala harris said. you have got to go out and convince people that what you would like to do for this country is better than your opponent would like to do. and no other nation does that as well as we have. at least not until recently. host: independent line, baltimore, eric, hello. caller: good morning, america. guest: that is another show. [laughter] caller: yeah, what is your name? . host: cal thomas, go ahead. caller: cal thomas, well, i voted for dr. joel stein because her soul is not for sale. she is talking about health care, higher wages. we are talking about so-called american values, with january 6 american values, they do not have masks on.

i don't know if all the people were black -- we know what color they were on january 6. i marched -- i marched peacefully for george floyd two times, ok, so you know what i'm saying? this is ridiculous. tell me what the so-called american values are. guest: you may have noticed or maybe not that jill stein was just endorsed by david duke, so i don't know how you feel about that. i think american values begin with the individual. i think personal responsibility and accountability, saving money, investing for your own retirement. if you are going to be sexually promiscuous, use contraceptives so you don't have an unwanted pregnancy. nobody talks about that and the abortion debate. the whole idea of personal responsibility has gone out the window. it is open season on medicare,

for example. i live part time in florida, the ads on television contain the same words -- free, deserve, and entitlement. if you work that mentality and somehow you think the government will take care of you better than yourself, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy but i think government is a last resort. too many americans see it as a first resource, and that is one reason we have massive debt and another reason our politics have become so cynical, in my view. host: joseph, virginia, republican. caller: hi. how are you today? host: go ahead. caller: i have one question, and i hope he can explain it. i'm 85, maybe i'm just senile or something, but can you tell me how kamala harris is the pic to run for president when she did not get no votes at all? that is only question i have to ask.

guest: as the late walter cronkite used to say, that is the way it is. it is a mystery to many. she was the first end pullout of the 2023 democratic candidates in 2016, and she never won a single delegate or single vote and was the first of pullout. this is a unique occasion in american politics and has never happened before. i think i just repeated myself. it means the same thing. yeah, i think that there should have been, and some democrats suggested this to their credit, there should have been some kind of quick primary election to let the people choose. the people had chosen joe biden fear, primary's all over the country. all of a sudden, he withdraws and she is anointed. i think a lot of people don't like that and they think it said about president, not just republicans. host: a colleague of yours wrote

about barack obama. what inspired that for you? guest: it is an act of desperation and it follows a lot of condescension that democrats have had about african-americans over the years. what we have seen, it is a new poll, that younger african-americans, i think the reason for this is they had not been through the civil rights movement, so they are looking at things like failing schools, in chicago, for example, only 25% of high school graduates are proficient in reading, which is a disgrace, and the mayor there is just getting into the teachers union, but none of it is filtering down to the kids, so school choice is the answer to that. when former president obama comes out, and that says people in the neighborhoods who voted for me last time do not seem to be coming out, but let's -- nice

transition. [video clip] >> based on reports i'm getting from campaigns is that we have not yet seen the same kind of energy and turnout in all of our neighborhood communities as when i was running. now, i also would like to think that we need to be more pronounced with the brothers. [end video clip] host: that is what he said. guest: there is this presumption of tribalism in this country that all african-american people are to think and vote alike, that all women care about the same issues and have the same position when it comes to abortion, and the media feeds this but it is not true.

you almost never see an african-american person or a woman who has a different point of view than the travel mentality, and if they are, it is usually the result of them being put down as not members of the tribe or not fully female, or as joe biden said, if you don't vote for me, you ain't black. that has angered a lot of young black voters who have been taken for granted and i think they are right. the politicians come around every four years b in their neighborhoods andlack churches, and then they show up say these things and they don't show up another four years. got tired of that. we need more people exchanging ideas, and not just voting as their parents or grandparents did. host: next call from virginia, dependent. caller: yes, i do not understand how anyone, including mr. thomas

considering the alternative can vote for someone to deny them and release power and to not give up power voluntarily. i cannot understand that. guest: who did not give up power voluntarily? caller: mr. trump. guest: he left the white house on january 20. he did not agree with the outcome, but he left the election and did not stay. caller: i realize that, but you know what i mean. guest: no, i don't. caller: i understand what you are saying. but he continues -- i wish someone would ask mr. trump why he cannot accept the fact that he lost the election. guest: they have, and he says he believes there was fraud and cheating. the hearse not been a single court, including with judges he appointed, who have agreed with him. he responded by saying the

judges all say we do not have standing. if you don't have standing when you are running for president, what constitutes standing? interesting argument. i looked at all of this stuff, i see these shadow things of people supposedly stuffing ballots in boxes outside and all of this. a lot of people believe that they would like to, and they look at certain things and reinforce their biases. and let's go back to richard nixon and john f. kennedy, clearly, there was cheating in illinois and west virginia in the primary there going on, but nixon said he wanted to put the country ahead of everyone else and did not with them fighting in that election. and that attitude does not exist anymore. hillary clinton is still in denial when she lost her trump, although not to the level that trump is. it is a lot of poison in our

politics. how do you get rid of it? i don't know, but i wish we would. host: michigan, democrat line. caller: hi, i have so many ideas in my head right now, but back in the days, when there was decency, when you saluted the flag in a parade, when i was a little girl, there was decency, and over time, it has gone right out the window, and trump said, get right off the ledge. that is what everybody is talking about. have a level of anxiety we are living with now and the indecency of this man, i don't understand how -- politics aside, please. and maybe we should think about getting rid of the parties altogether. what if we just had an election committee without any party affiliation? what if we stop talking about racial? i get tired when i hear of the black vote, this book, la --

this vote, why do we have to be so separated in all of our sections? guest: great question. the founders warned against political parties. if you think politics is nasty today, i commend the 1801 election between thomas jefferson and john adams, where they called each other names that would rival anything donald trump had said about nancy pelosi or kamala harris. you had warren harding and the teapot scandal, so there has been a lot of this. it is exacerbated by social media, television, talk radio and other things. it is like wrestling. most people know it is fake, but they do it anyway because it is good entertainment. host: this is debbie,hi from social media, asking you if you think the richest man in the world should get the job of

being government auditor? guest: he does run a successful business. he is doing things for rockets, if you saw that landing the other day. that was like science fiction, incredible. and he's very successful. we used to support success and penalize impudence, but now you have to be regulated more, taxed more, it is not fair that you are making more than somebody else, income inequality. yeah, there are always people making more money than me, but i don't care, as long as i have freedom to make what next may comfortable and provide for my family, that is all that matters. host: so depending on the elections and who controls which body? guest: i have an interview promised to me with speaker johnson. i will ask about that and that red wave prediction that did not happen. i think from the polls i'm reading, and looks like the republicans will win the senate,

the house could be close, democrats could take back the house. a lot of americans like split government and they may rail against its incompetence and failure to get things done, but they just don't trust the power, which is not necessarily a bad thing. host: what is the question that you would like to ask the speaker or a question you think he may not answer? guest: what are you going to do about the debt? spending is the major problem when it comes to economics in this country. we know it needs to be done, but nobody will talk about it, social security and medicare, going to run out of money in the early 20 30's, everybody knows that. it's not a mystery, but nobody will touch it. one of the senate candidates running against rick scott, the incumbent, and he says he will do away with social security. that is a boldface lie, but

democrats have been running on that for 50 years. they always say that and it is not true, but that keeps the publicans from doing what is necessary. former speaker paul ryan had a plan to report social security medicare and read about it in "the wall street journal." it had some flaws but it is a good start. he got an ounce by the democrats who created a political ad, showing an ad pushing an old woman over a cliff. that was not a serious response to a proposal. let's get the politics out of it and do it promotes the general welfare. i wish i had written that line. host: florida, publican. caller: good morning -- republican. caller: good morning, c-span. guest: hope you survive the hurricane. caller: yes, both of them. guest: good. caller: i value your opinion very much. a couple things i would like you to respond to, as far as the

division of our country, how has this evolved and where is it going? i believe that two parties need to come together. now, vice president harris has forgone the congressional meeting regarding israel. she is the president of congress and should have been there. that caused further division. now i'm here, foregoing the presidential roast that is coming up. so, i would like to get your views on what you think is really happening and where we go from here. guest: well, each party, of course, has its constituency and

fundraisers, and a lot of this is about fundraising. there are not many ideas now that are original or new. they are poll tested, so politicians tell you and propose certain things that pull testing tells them you would like to hear. leadership used to be about telling people where we need to go, and other leaders are behaving like followers and asking people where would you like to go? that is not real leadership. i do not go to a car dealer to get my teeth cleaned. i go to the dentist. if i'm a leader, i don't go to the followers to say what do you want? i tell them this is what you need to do to improve this or that. they don't do that anymore. a lot of this is about money and getting reelected. i've been a fan of term limits, but the problem is people who would have to vote for term limits are the ones who do not want to because it would fit

them. who would want to come to washington and after a couple of terms, get a pension and free health care and all kinds of other things that no average citizen could get? once again, i go back to what i said earlier, if you don't like it, go back to the people who will change it, but there are not many who will, sadly. host: how often do you write your column and what are you thinking about writing next? guest: two a week for 40 plus years. i don't do much else, and what do i think about writing about next? i don't know, this is thursday, it's not due until monday and a lot can happen between now and then. host: what are you paying attention to? guest: obviously, the campaign, and both sides are trying to shore up their votes. i just wish, i go back and look at some of these jokes ronald reagan told and the self-deprecating humor. that works a lot.

i asked trump, have you ever asked forgiveness for anything or admitted you made a mistake? he said, no, i may have to ask for forgiveness someday but no. people don't like that. if richard nixon had come out and said i did not order what happened at watergate but i take responsibility for it as president and i would like to ask the american people's forgiveness, he would have served out a second term i think, but the hooper's and ego is -- the hubris and ego was so strong that i cannot remember the last time anybody admitted error. host: he is the author of "the watchmen's night: what i've seen over 50 years reporting on america." thank you. guest: thank you. host: we will go to open forum, and if you would like to participate, (202)-748-8001, republicans. democrats, (202)-748-8000. independents, (202)-748-8002. before we do that, we would like

to show you a portion from yesterday's memorial service. here are remarks from president biden. [video clip] [video clip] pres. biden: this is robert kennedy, she was one of my heroes, but i always knew her as ethel kennedy, her in her own right. i loved bobby kennedy, i only met him once at law school when he was campaigning, but i admired him so damn much. i told john kerry this, my buddy , i could picture bobby at my mom and dad. i could picture him. but you know, ethel was a hero in her own right, full of character, full of integrity, and empathy. genuine empathy. full of laughter, joy, light. she is a great athlete in her own right, for real.

she was a mother and there is nothing from my perspective that she could not do. nothing. four years later, after bobby, she invited me and my boys to her home after the accident, left my family broken, and we lost my wife, daughter, boys barely making it. along with teddy, she got me through a time i did not want to stick around. wanted no part of being in the congress or the senate. i mean it. i spoke to my governor, because we elected a democratic governor , to find a replacement for me.

but teddy and ethel kennedy would hear none of it. you know, the fact is what she did for the country, ethel helped my family find a way forward with principal and purpose. we saw how she picked up bobby's cause and stamped her own mark on the country. working to end poverty at home, securing peace abroad and more. she once said, for anyone to achieve something, you have to show a little courage. you are only on this earth once, you must give it all you got. reminded me of my mom. my mom used to say, courage lives in every heart.

one day it will be called upon, be ready to stand up, and she meant it. she meant it. for over 50 years, her own iron will and moral courage, she gave it everything she had. we are a better nation and a better world because of ethel kennedy. [end video clip] >> "washington journal" continues. host: if you would like to participate in open forum, (202)-748-8001, republicans. (202)-748-8000, democrats. independents (202)-748-8002. you can always text us at (202)-748-8003. nbc picks up on something a caller and mr. thomas brought up about the ultimate dinner. former president trump will address the center in new york

and vice president harris' campaign announced she would not, fighting a scheduling conflict, but mr. trump -- she will be the first not to attend the event. the president's remark are expected around 9:15 this evening. you can see that on our website at c-span.org, follow along on c-span now, and you can go to.org for more information on the event. jd vance will be in pennsylvania for a rally. you will see that also on our main platform on c-span if you would like to see it there. c-span now and our mobile app. that will be in pittsburgh, pennsylvania tonight with jd vance, and then goverr m walz. this rally will take place in north carolina, and it is the

state's first day of early voting. 2:00 this afternoon on c-span, c-span now and c-span.org. you can go to the website for more information. patrick, florida, democrat. go ahead. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: yeah. i'm a democrat. i have a question for c-span. what is it everybody, trump is talking about the border and the american jobs to america, and [indiscernible] and everything from china, and he has all the legal people to do his work and does not want to pay them the right price, but when he ran in 2016, he was in

washington, and he had nothing but illegal immigrants working at the time, and he wanted to do deportation. his wife is an immigrant from a different country, so he needs to send back his wife first before he sends anybody back to their country. that is what i have to say. host: jim, new york, republican. caller: hi. i remember october 25 or 26th, you had a guy on there was sandwiched between two democrats, and he talked like i did about what is going on in his neighborhood, and you cut him off like you cut me off every time. i'm telling you, i'm not stupid.

i was at the united states marine academy for 20 years, so i'm not stupid. what is going on here is you cannot compete. if you have nine families in a house, it is not very effective, you cannot compete with these people that are coming in because they can work with these wages. think about with the mortgage would be on that house. you have cars all over the sidewalks, music through the weekends, the cops finally did something about that. i had to sleep in my office. i used to go to my office 40 miles west of here because they are blasting music that you can hear from one mile away. it is a bad thing that is happening in this country. host: ok. let's hear from joe, maine,

independent. good morning. caller: good morning. maybe you should have told new york to talk to his counselor. anyway, what i would like to say is i was watching a few weeks ago, and the host had an 82-year-old woman call about who you are going to vote for, and she said she would never vote for trump, and listed a very long line, and had the p word and all of those things, and she said, and he is a rapist, and the host said, oh, no, he is not a rapist, he was not charged with rape in new york, and that is true, but the reason he was not base in new york, you have to have penetration to be charged with rape. the host neglected to say that. could you comment on that?

don't you feel like you should be telling the truth when you ask people where do you get your information? things of that nature? and if you don't know by now, i will let you guess who the host was -- host: democrat line, missouri. caller: good morning. i just would have really liked to know if your last guest has looked at project 2025. he said republicans will not cut social security, and he seems like to me, he was not aware of the information they already put out. they will cut it. they will take it away if they are put in, and we just have to get the senate and the congress, the democrats have to stand up to save our country. i appreciate you taking my call. host: the washington post has a story looking at pictures made

by the 20 35 director. and personal blueprint condemning what he sees as violent rhetoric and calling on jd vance to retract what he wrote for robert's book. if we are going to ask the left to tone it down, we have to do our part, as well. there is no place for that violent rhetoric, and tontine, especially in light of the fact that president trump has been subject to two assassination attempts. roberts, who took over the thing take in 2021, declared revolution during an appearance on a pro-trump podcast in july before a gunman attempted to assassinate donald trump at a rally in pennsylvania. the same month, roberts started marketing his book and featured

an image. roberts the client to be interviewed and roberts remarked on the podcast and was meant to warn of left-wing violence. dennis, new york, republican. caller: i don't understand, number one, why the election is so close. under donald trump, we had no world wars, we had a secure border, we had no high-end place in, and the country seemed to be more united. that is just one good thing. my question is for the democrats. today, on the news, they had a task force to find missing children. 325,000 missing children in this country under this administration. they found 47 children, and the

children and parents and guardians should be happy. they never said where were the children and where they came from. there is a lot of this going on under this administration. we have the world's number one six traffickers. why isn't this the ministrations doing something for these children? and i would like answers for all these 47 children they reported today. they never said where they were or who had them. host: carrie, philadelphia,, crack. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. i wanted to talk a little bit about last night's interview with fox with vice president kamala harris, did you happen to watch that? host: we aired portions of it this morning. caller: i would like to know, there were a couple of questions that she would not really give a good answer for. how many illegals were in the

country? i think she should have known that answer right off the bat being the vice president and being in charge of the border. do you agree with me? host: why do you think it is important? caller: i think it is important because people should know we are breaking all these people into the country by the millions. sooner or later, they are to come into our country, the health care will be affected, our schools will be affected by it, our social security will be affected by it. but you don't want to answer, i understand fred let me ask you another question, she was also asked when did she know about president joe biden's capacity, and she did not answer that either. i found that strange, and i'm a democrat, i was thinking of voting for her, but after i saw what fox did to her, i do

believe mr. putin will be kind to her either. i don't think she will be able to stand up to that. host: phil, florida, independent line. caller: hi, thank you for taking my call. i would like people to be aware that we have these ebt cards that are given to the low income people, and i was in line one day, and a lady ordered two units and a large cappuccino and paid for it with that. this is not -- this is in massachusetts. i cannot afford that. the next time i was in line, a lady went to a sushi place and paid with ebt card. why is it that people who are low income, why are they buying something that i cannot afford? why can't they be restricted to essentials and not anything they would like?

we can say thank you to elizabeth warren for that, we can thank her for people being overweight. thank you, elizabeth warren. host: the new york times reporting that two veteran prosecutors have left mr. smith's office. the departures amount to an acknowledgment that any trial in the case will not happen for many months, and one of the prosecutors played a prominent role in early court hearings with documents that have been turned over to the counterintelligence section rate according to people familiar with the move, they handled intelligence related cases and returned to its previous role, and according to those same people. lee, democrat line, kentucky. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: it is open forum, so i

wanted to speak on something that your guest had said, a couple of things. i tried to get through when he was on, but i cannot get through. i wanted to ask him a question about they were wondering how hitler came to power in germany. and is that what he saw happening here today? he said no because he said the difference is that in america, we have checks and balances and three different branches of government, but right now, today, i don't see that we have that. we have congress, or the republicans are totally backing

trump for the most part, we have a supreme court who has given him total immunity if he becomes president again. neither of those things are checks and balances, and when he installs people if he is elected, it is going to be people who also will not come up against him, so that is something i wanted to call him out on when he was on, but i cannot not get through. the second thing was, my goodness, i cannot remember. i cannot remember what the second thing was, but, anyway, i don't see that we have checks and balances in this country right now, and i know what the other thing was, he says he thinks a lot of what trump says is just rhetoric, that he does not believe he would actually do the things he says.

i think he has proven what things he has done what he was not in office had he not had guardrails, it would have gone further. host: let's hear from robert, maryland, republican line. caller: yes, i would like to say that i'm really ecstatic about the guest you had on earlier. i think that was the most balanced approach, and his feedback, especially with the january 6 incident, i was there on january 6, and i may black -- i'm a black guy, and i wanted to qualify what trump said about that day and what happened. it was glorious day, it was a beautiful day. i was there with my entire block family, so i would like to set the record straight.

when it was time to go to the capital, that is when things began to unfold and everything went south, but prior to that time, it was a glorious day, everybody was in one spirit and really beautiful, and i had never seen anything like it. so what trump is saying about that day, that is true. when we get to the capital, like i said, i don't know what was going on. people were storming the capital , a lot of things unfolded. we left because we had never been exposed, and i took 17 busloads of people from the state of maryland to this event. i'm the only black guy, meet, family, and the people who were around that i traveled with were not racist. they were good people. they were loving people. we had all things in common that day, so a lot of things we hear

on the news and things like that, you know, you have to talk to the people who were there. host: let's talk to brian in virginia, independent line. caller: good morning. i've come up with -- i don't know how my mind works, but the four g's of trump, gas lighting, he makes stuff up, says it repeatedly, people believe him, and it is all about money. there are many of his rallies sites where he has not even paid the bill because he would like to keep the money. griff dean -- grifting, he is selling bibles. i don't think he ever went to church when he was president, at least they never said anything about it, and now he is selling gold tennis shoes trying to do crypto. and the fourth g, which is wonderful, giuliani, his personal lawyer has been disbarred in new york,

washington, and probably other places. he has been fined $150 million to these two poor women in georgia. he has been indicted in arizona, and this is trump's personal lawyer. this is the guy who 40 to 50% of america would like to be in charge of our government, the department, the fbi, the military. i don't get it. i don't get how they could want that. i really don't. host: this is from the wall street journal story coming out of columbia university. this is a report writing that an outspoken columbia university professor was accused of a hot bit of semitism and has been banned from campus. they say they are not letting him on the campus because he is harassing university employees, including an incident last week.

they expect him to return to campus after he completes training on how an employee should behave. they did not say how long the training would last. a colombian business professor said in a phone interview that the school was working to commemorate the victims of last year's hamas attack on israel, "this is a clear retaliation. i feel horrible not for myself but the university is basically telling the jewish community that -- where it stands." caller: i also wanted to make a comment about the last guest. he said something i think is not true. he said most people here trump's untruth and know it is not true. i think that is so false. the whole problem is that most people are having a hard time

now with a lot of misinformation, telling what is and what is not the truth. that is a challenge for our times, even if you read newspapers and look at many news programs, it is still difficult to determine today what the truth is, so i think he is on the wrong track when it comes to that. thank you. host: sophia, new york, democrat. caller: good morning. i have a comment and suggestion. is that ok? don't hang up. give us at least why can't c-span give like a minute or a minute and a half. october 2, pedro, i could not keep up with the people.

the cut their word properly, and they answered it right away, and then they tried to explain -- ok, you cut them off. october 2, at the end of your assignment, you had a big giggling face and said we had 86 calls. pedro, i use defend you before when they said do not cut us off, do not cut us off. pedro, please. i called just to say this. [indiscernible] anyway, thank you for listening. host: before you go, the reason that i have to transition from call to call is to make sure

people who line-up will get through and have a chance to express themselves. i know people would like to say more than what they do, and we restricted give them the time and space. hold on, i understand that, but we are at 53 calls now. you are part of that. glad you had a chance to call, but go ahead and finish. caller: i do not want to talk about mr. trump. i would like to let people know i voted for him and 2016 but it ain't going to happen this time for it have a good day. host: better sophia in new york -- that is sophia in new york. tony, ohio, independent. caller: hi. thank you very much for having mr. thomas on. he was interesting to listen to. i was surprised he brought up the subject about how they

pushed kamala --however you say her name -- i don't mean to disrespect her. host: kamala. caller: pushed her into position. they talk about trump being a dictator. the democrats by not letting the people of the united states of america have the right to vote who they wanted to represent them was taken away from them. number two, obama. what a shocker that was to see him present himself to young black men, trying to intimidate them to stand together with the democrats because they were black. i know a lot of black people who are good people, and they could see the writing on the wall. i assure you there should be allowed to have their vote. they fought for many years to have the right to vote, and the women, too, and they should not be intimidated by dictators on

the democratic side. host: that is tony in ohio. part of campaign 2024 coverage, not only at the white house but the senate. one of the senate debates you can see play out tonight is in wyoming, the senator and the demoat challenger paicipate to talk about why each willake the case to bemehe next senator for wyoming, hosted by wmi pbs, 9:00 on c-span, our free video app c-span now, and c-span.org, also where youan see that. coming up, international monetary fd managing director will talk about the global economic outlook on the imf policy priorities, schedule to start a few minutes from now. we will take you to that when it starts. if you have a chance, you can watch it now or on that app,

too. a few more calls. catherine, vermont, democrat. caller: hi, good morning, everyone. i have a comment further caller who called in a few calls ago, the self-appointed snap recipient, food czar for massachusetts who said they could not afford the food that snap recipient people were getting. just to comment. one, who are they to say what snap recipients should and should not be able to purchase? two, i stead of being upset with snap recants and what they are able to purchase, be upset with corporations who are responsible for inflation and who charge $10 and $6 for milk and .