a great community that i love. it is going to make a big comeback and i will help it. i'm going to win and make a comeback, turn this thing around. i want to pay tribute to a man who is a tremendous politician and the fact that he was catholic did him in, nobody knows for sure. but he was a great guy, al smith. i've said before, i'll say again, if i have the honor to be elected next month, we're going to see what happens. it's happening so fast. but if i have the honor, i look forward to working together to make this city greater than ever before. we're going to do that. we're going to be focused on the

work with the governor, i will work with the mayor, democrats, i will work with them and whoever i i have to and bring back the salt tax deduction. we're going to bring it back. we're going to get that thing going. i actually thought about not doing jokes tonight. i was going to come out here and say, listen, our country is doing very badly. this is not about jokes. then some person said you have to do jokes. i said, i don't want to. there's nothing funny about what's happening to our country. i actually meant that but they convinced me to say some of the things i said tonight. i don't know if they were funnier or not but you think this is easy standing up here in front of half a room that hates my guts and the other half loves me? half of us love me -- well, maybe it's about 75% love me. but i actually, i did think

about that. our country is doing very badly with respect to its open borders and inflation, things happening in the middle east and ukraine, it's so sad to see what's happening in ukraine. wow, i've had a lot of religious people come up to me tonight from ukraine asking me for help. so sad to see so many people have been killed in ukraine and we're going to get it settled up if we win, as i'm president-elect i'm going to get that done. too much killing. it's killing and all of those cities are crashing down. those beautiful golden domes are crashing down. so sad to see, the whole thing is so sad. so many people came up and i

said we're going to get it stopped. should have never started. it wouldn't have ever started. but we're going to have our country respected again. we're going to do very good things for ourselves as a country and for the world. these are challenging times for our beautiful u.s.a. but i'm committed to working with every partner here in new york and all across the nation to build an america that once again is strong and safe and proud and prosperous and free. we're going to make sure. together we can create a future defined by great ambitions and grand achievements that once again inspires the dreams of our children, brings back the american dream. you don't hear about the american dream anymore. we're going to make it possible for them to have the american dream. this is a very religious evening to me, it really is. it represents so much. my sister was somebody that loved the church and gave to the

church. the cardinal knew that. had a certain priest she felt was incredible, certain very fine man that she thought was incredible. having recently, myself, survived two assassination attempts, i have a chart that went down to the right. that's my all-time favorite piece of paper. i looked to the right and i said, you know, was that luck? or was that god that did that? and i think it was god that did that, i do. but i have a very fresh appreciation for how blessed we are by god's providence and divine mercy. i was not supposed to be here tonight, that i can tell you. so with god's help, i know there is nothing that cannot be achieved. we can achieve so much good with this country and get together

and unify. i want to thank the alfred smith foundation for its noble work and express my tremendous gratitude to the catholic community. it's a great community, a community i've gotten along with all my life. when i was president, i was in the oval office and i got a call from the cardinal and he said we need help. it was during the china virus, i want to be accurate when i describe it. and he said we need help, our schools are in devastating shape. they needed much more than a billion. i won't tell you the number but much more than $1 billion but i've known the community and i've known the schools. i know so many people educated in the catholic school system and they are great and they just speak with it with love much more so than almost any system i've seen. and he said we have a big problem, we need a number of

billions of dollars or we're going to have to close down the new york school system and i said give me 15 minutes, i think we can find it and we gave him billions of dollars and they stayed open and they thrived and to this day i hear you did just about the best job in education and that was always an honor and every time he sees me he said thank you very much. we worked together, we were a good partnership. we got that money in about 15 minutes, billions. it was put to very good use. i just want to thank everybody. this is a special evening. it's a very serious evening, i think. we have some serious problems in the world but they're going to get solved and we're going to make america great again and thank you so much and god bless you all. thank you very much.

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giving you a front row seat to democracy. up, a shot as you can get of the destroyed compound right in the middle of it. the fire is out. some of the remains still smolder. federal officials from president clinton right on down. rightly or wrongly, we'll be feeling the heat for a long time about how the federal government handled this case. what it did when it did, it did it do the right thing? second guessing is easy. the search is just beginning for remains of the more than 80 people, including an estimated dozen or more children believed killed when the compound went up in flames yesterday. one of the men survivors is blaming the fire on the fbi, but federal officials emphasize there is no doubt about it. the fire was started by

followers of david koresh, an apparent mass suicide ordered by the cult leader. and that was cbs news coverage from april 19th, 1993, after the deadly fire that consumed the branch davidian compound near waco, texas. the standoff between law enforcement and the group lasted 51 days and left more than 80 people dead. and thanks for joining us on american history. tv's special series congress investigates. this is where we look at signify house and senate investigations in our history and their results. this week, we look at the. april 1993 incursion by federal and state law enforcement at the branch davidian compound near waco, texas, and the subsequent congressional hearings, which were held in 1993 and in 1995. now, in just a minute, we're going to be joined by david jackson. he's with usa today now. but at the time of the hearings,

he was with the dallas morning news and he covered these. he'll be joining us right after we hear from jeff quinn, who is an author whose most recent book is entitled waco, david koresh and the branch davidians and a legacy of rage. here's what happened. david koresh, formerly vernon wayne, how and the branch davidians live in a large, sprawling house that they call mount carmel on a hill outside waco, texas. they pretty much keep to themselves. they literally believe in every word in the bible, and they believe that david koresh is the lamb of the book of revelation. and he and his followers are about to bring about the end of times from the book of revelation by battling the forces of babylon. they've come to the attention of atf, alcohol, tobacco, firearms,

arms for being in unlawful possession of semiautomatic weapons that have been converted to automatic weapons. there's nothing illegal about doing that. in 1993. if you register each weapon and you pay a tax for doing so. the branch davidians had not done that. disgruntled former branch davidians had made claims to atf that those that were left following david koresh were quite likely to take some of their automatic weapons, the ones they didn't sell at gun shows and descend into waco or some other place and slaughter innocent people as a means of bringing in the government, bringing about the end times of the bible. so atf thought it was not only acting to confiscate illegal automatic weapons, but in fact, public safety was involved.

they thought it was going to be the easiest operation possible. these obviously were dumb people, so they believe this kind of garbage from somebody who clearly to them was a fraud. they planned did atf to make this a bloodless, hugely successful raid. their budget hearings were coming up in march and they wanted to film the whole thing and prove to senators and congressmen they weren't bloodthirsty people trying to wipe out innocent gun owners. the branch davidians learned they were coming. they were waiting. there was a horrible three hour firefight. six of the branch davidians died. four agents died. six more were wounded. almost two thirds of the agents making the raid along. siege ensued with the fbi surrounding mount carmel. negotiator who's thought they

were making progress and getting koresh to agree to come out. the fbi lost patience. on april 19th, they decided they would insert tear gas, supposedly gradually to smoke the branch davidians out over a couple of days. instead, they filled the corridors of mount carmel with great clouds of gas. a fire broke out. all the branch davidian in there died horribly, except for nine who escaped all adults. and that became genesis and all the controversies afterwards that clearly have led to a number of violent incidents ever since. so there's not just the mount carmel story to tell, but the consequences. and now joining us is david jackson of usa today, who was with the dallas morning news during the waco hearings. mr. jackson, what do you remember from those hearings? well, the first set of hearings, i remember the fact that we had

a big senate race going on in texas to replace lloyd bentsen. we'd been named treasury secretary. and that's what i wasovering. and it was interesting in that the waco waco raid and even the waco the fire that ended the stand up did not play particularly large roles in that campaign. it was more about the clinton's stewardship and his presidency and the emerging republican takeover of the state of texas. wake up played a relatively, relatively small part in in that particular senate race. there are a lot of things going on throughout the state and nationally that that still have resonance based on what happened there back in 1993. what was the american reaction when the branch davidian compound was burned on april 19th? it's horror and mystification there because there was something that was live on cable television, a relatively new phenomenon back then. i mean, obviously seeing it as cnn had been on the air for more than a decade, but they didn't do a whole lot of live events. they did do that. and people could watch as this

smoke began coming out of the compound and the fire engulfed the place, killing all of the people inside. so initially there were shock and i don't thina lot of people really knew the background of what happened while the feds raided the place in the first place and what the standoff was all about. but they learned quickly. but i think the initial reaction was shock. and to wonder how this happened. and that's what spurred the hearings. well, within ten days, the house judiciary committee, led by jack brooks, a democrat from texas, held hearings. what was the point of those hearings so quickly? well, it depends on what you are. depends on you talk to. some people say the point of the hearings was to answer some of these questions that were raised by what happened. i mean, there was such a astonishment at what had happened. people wanted to know right away what what did happen and what, you know, what people did that led to this fire that engulfed children as well as adults. there's also a saying that was also a sign that the democrats ran the house back in 1993. and there was a feeling that they, the majority, wanted to move quickly in order to protect

the clinton administration, which kind of struggled out of the gate. president newly new president clinton had had a lot of struggles early on his administration, waco, obviously one of them, and i think some house democrats were looking to give him cover right away after this terrible incident. well, the new attorney general at the time, janet reno, testified at the hearings. what was the reaction to her testimony? well, i think she did herself a lot of good. i think she walked everyone through it when it happened, what the davidians were like, what what they talked to. and she also presented compelling evidence that they were the ones who started the fire. you know, in the immediate aftermath of the fire, there were people who were wondering if the government somehow contributed to it. but i think reno did a pretty good job of persuading people that that was, in fact, the davidians who started the fire. well, even though she was having political problems, i think she did. i think came across as a kind of a folk hero. she came across as a regular person, someone who was not particularly a bureaucrat or washington type of person. she'd come from miami, where she was the d.a. so she was familiar with local crime issues.

and i think all of that came out during her testimony. i mean, my recollection is that she actually made herself kind of a folk hero. well, this is april 28, 1993, then attorney general janet reno testifying in front of the house judiciary committee. i want to be as open as possible with you and with all the american people about what we knew before, what we knew on that day and what we know now. and as our investigation proceeds, i want to be responsible and accountable to the congress and to the american people in every way i possibly can. this is one of the hardest decisions that anybody could ever be asked to make. we deliberated long and carefully before reaching a decision. nothing we do now can change the suffering felt by the families of the atf agents or the families of those who perished in the compound.

but as you have pointed out so eloquently, we must do everything we can to learn from these events about what we can do in the future to prevent people like david koresh or people motivated by other thoughts from causing such a senseless, horrible loss of human life. on february 28th, 1993. four agents of the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms were killed and 16 were injured in a shootout that occurred when they attempted to execute an arrest warrant for burn in hell, also known as david koresh and a search warrant at the branch davidian compound near waco, texas. the agents were met by a barrage of gunfire from numerous firing points in the compound that lasted 45 minutes. involved thousands of rounds of ammunition and left the agents dead and injured.

weapons used by the branch davidians included 50 caliber rifles having an effective range of 3000 yards from the capitol to the white house. all of those killed or wounded were shot or injured by homemade hand grenades. while several members of the commune were killed and injured. it was apparently no serious injury to any of the children after the shootout remains. atf agents established a protective perimeter around the compound. a few hours later, three branch davidians attempted to enter the compound, resulting in a second shootout with atf agents in which one davidian was killed. attempts were made to further secure the perimeter. atf officials then requested that the fbi dispatch a task rescue team, which we refer to as hrt. on february 28th, 1993. agents of the federal bureau of investigation include the hrt

arrived on the scene. the fbi found an armed fortress, a compound consisting of approximately 70 acres located on route seven near waco. i took office on march 12th, 1993, after my fbi clearance. i had been briefed previous solely by the acting attorney general and was thereafter briefed specifically on the situation at waco. i was advised that the primary goal of the fbi's hostage rescue team was to negotiate with koresh to secure the release of the children and the surrender and prosecution of all those who participated in the murder and assault of the federal agents. without further violence or injury to anyone concerned, i concur that we must try to negotiate to avoid further bloodshed. to the extent that we could. as this situation evolved, the fbi had consistently rejected a direct assault on the compound because of the danger of heavy casualties to the agents and to the children and because of the

layout which prevented a surprise assault. i was told as i was briefed that the fbi had a trained negotiator on the scene and that they had and during the course of these deliberations, continued to discuss and consult with behavioral experts and others who had knowledge of the cult to determine how best to proceed to negotiate with kersh. from the start, the negotiation tactics focused on restrict the activities of those inside the compound, and to depriving them of a comfortable environment so as to bring the matter to a conclusion without further violence. those inside the compound were advised that the fbi's rules of engagement under those rules, the agents. conveyed the information that they would not use deadly force against any person except as necessary in self-defense or defense of another. when they had reason to believe

that they or another were in danger of death or grievous bodily harm. the fbi installed lights to illuminate the compound at night and loudspeaker to ensure that they could communicate with all members of the compound at once rather than having to rely solely on the single telephone line available to speak to caution those he permitted to talk on the phone. he also used loudspeakers to disrupt their sleep. they cut off their electricity and they sought to restrict communications of those within the compound just to the hostage negotiators. additionally, they sent in letters from family members and made other good faith efforts designed to encourage a surrender by those who wish to leave the compound. in particular, and i asked about this during the course of our deliberation, they made repeated efforts to secure the release of the children and further efforts to encourage the negotiating process. attorneys representing koresh and steve schneider were allowed to enter the compound and communicate by telephone with them on several occasions throughout this 51 day process, koresh continued to assert that

he and others inside would at some point surrender. however, the fbi advised that at no point did he keep his word on any of his promises. despite all efforts, the negotiators concluded that negotiation lines were at a standstill and that they had not been able to negotiate a single item with koresh. although 21 children and 14 adults had been allowed to leave the compound between february 28th and march 23rd, 1993, those persons who left the compound did so because koresh affirmatively wanted them out, as they were not fully committed to his cause. they were a drain on his efforts and internal discipline and resources reviewed them as potential spokesmen to the media during the week of april the fifth. the fbi advised me that they were developing a plan for the possible use of tear gas in an effort to increase the pressure on those in the compound to surrender. thereafter, i had a series of meetings with the fbi to discuss

the emerging proposal. the threshold question and i asked was whether the gas would cause permanent injury to the children. i did not even want to consider the matter further. if we could not be certain about this factor. the fbi assured me that the gas would not cause permitted entry. i asked them to research further and subsequently they arranged for me to meet with dr. harry salem, a top expert at n toxicology, who is chief of the life sciences department at the edgewood arsenal. he reviewed with me case studies that confirm that it would not cause permanent injury. then the primary question i asked again and again during the ensuing discussion was why now? why not wait? i asked about their food and water supply and was told that it could last at least a year or more. i asked that the information about the water supply be checked and double checked by observing the level in the water tanks. we explored but could not develop a feasible method for cutting off their water supply.

i asked my staff to have direct personal discussions by phone with the chief negotiator on the scene to satisfy ourselves that we had indeed reached an impasse in discussion and negotiations. after two and a half hour conversation that seemed clear, i became convinced that short of allowing david koresh to go free, he was not coming out voluntarily. given that unacceptable result, in light of the fact that he was such a dangerous criminal, allowing the status quo to remain, was not going to lead to an ultimate peaceful resolution and eliminate any risk to the safety of the innocent children in the compound and the public at large, or the government agents at the scene. on the contrary, the passage of time only increased the likelihood of incidents and possible injuries and attendant injuries and harm. but we continued to deliberate and in the course of our

deliberation, we met with general peter schoomaker and colonel jerry boynton, former and present commanders of delta force respect to the army's rough equivalent to the fbi's h.r. team to review the plan. their comments were instructive, while indicating that the plan appeared to be sound. one suggestion was that rather than an incremental approach to use to the use of the gas as proposed by the fbi, gas should be inserted into all portions of the compound simultaneously. i preferred the fbi approach, which called for a gradual increase in pressure over time. seemed to me that that would be best to ensure the safety of those inside. i directed that if at any point koresh or his followers threatened to harm the children, the fbi should cease the action immediately. likewise, if it appeared that as a result of the initial use of tear gas, koresh was prepared to negotiate in good faith, resulting in surrender. the fbi was to seal operation. on the other hand, of caution as follows. followers endangered the agents

by firing upon them. they were authorized to return the fire. to the great credit of the fbi. they received substantial fire from within the compound, both at the vehicles and at sniper positions surrounding the compound. and without returning any fire. in fact, throughout the 51 day siege, the fbi never fired a single shot. instead, when fired upon, the fbi responded by beginning to insert gas throughout the compound consistent with what the delta force commanders had suggested. commanders also expressed concern about the length of time the hrt had been on the scene and the state of constant readiness. and all expressed the view that the team would have to be pulled back for retraining very quickly if they were going to come back to the scene. all advised that there was not a substitute civil force that could secure the extensive area around the compound that had the extra expertise of the hostage rescue team. we continued deliberations. i wanted and received assurances

that the gas and its means of use were not pyrotechnic. i was concerned about intentional or accidental explosions and ordered that additional resources be provided to ensure that there was an adequate emergency response. if we should go forward. and i also consider the corish had talked about suicide and that might occur and any time under conditions that the fbi might be less likely to control it. experts, however, advised the bureau that the chances of suicide were not likely. but i again emphasized that it was something that was considered, something that was considered that might happen at any point along the way, regardless of what the fbi did. in considering the fbi proposal. i weighed the many concerns of the government with respect to the state of affairs inside the compound. they included the well-being of the children in the compound. given the deteriorate rating sanitary conditions, the apparent lack of adequate medical care inside and reports

of sexual and other abuse over the past. the vulnerability of the outer perimeter, which created a threat to public safety and the federal agents at the perimeter. the outer perimeter was vulnerable because there were inside the compound 50 caliber weapons having an effective killing range of 3000 yards a distance. that would reach from the u.s. capitol to the white house. our inability to maintain the presence of the hrt on site indefinitely and the advice i received that there was a lack of a suitable substitute force that could replace them at the compound and ensure the security of all involved. fourth, the increasing risk as the standoff continued of entry to federal federal agents, whether by accident or by the risk of shooting from the inside. since being sworn in as attorney general, i have had numerous conversations with people both inside and outside the department of justice concerning the waco situation. in addition, i directed my staff to keep the white house apprized of ongoing developments.

my discussions with representatives at the white house were predicated on the premise that as chief law enforcement officer, the decision on how to proceed was mine, advised the president on the sunday before the operation of my decision to authorize the fbi use of tear gas at the compound. and he said he would support my decision. i believe we were dealing with the situation that would not resolve itself by mere acquiesce essence to the standoff, negotiate had proven to be fruitless and despite our best efforts, we could not secure the release of the children. was the situation. and that suggested to me that time would only increase the risk to public safety or to the safety of government agents and to those within the compound without any realistic expectation that the matter would be resolved peacefully. if we did nothing, it was my call and i made it the best way i know how. and that was janet reno from april 28, 1993. were talking on congress investigates about the waco