>> you echoed the concerns of a lot of people. if you don't think we are looking into it, i assure you that we are. a lot of the issues are litigated in the courts across the country, particularly in contentious swing states where these concerns have been raised. we cover it through the lens of the legal system, which the courts have determined that the election was free and fair. a lot of people still don't believe that. absent very concrete decisions by the court, it's very hard for us as journalists to make that assessment. >> let me get your reaction to this one that just came out. it may be takes up the rest of your day as national political reporters. a judge denied former president trump's request to delay the unsealing of court records and exhibits in the 2020 election

interference case and said the court would release evidence on friday. what are we expecting from that? what more could we learn from that? >> we will leave this here and take you to a debate behind -- between tammy baldwin and eric come to. live coverage here on c-span. >> tonight's offense originates from madison, wisconsin at the studios of wmt vtb. we have a team of broadcasters from communities large and small across the state, involved in bringing this debate to you. tonight's debate continues our long-standing commitment to excellence and public service. the debate is underwritten by the foundation and supported by a grant from the with county -- wisconsin county association. let's go now to our moderator, member of the wbr hall of fame, and professor of leadership at yo -- loyola university chicago.

>> good evening. tuesday, november 5, wisconsin voters will choose between two candidates for u.s. senator. democratic incumbent tammy baldwin and republican challenger eric hovde. these are the rules to which they have agreed. for all questions from our statewide team of journalists, candidates will be told the length of time they have for a response. it will usually be 60 seconds. we all see countdown clocks. when candidates hit their time limit, i will remind them. if they continue, their microphone will cease to function. as moderator, i have the option to note when a candidate hasn't actually answered the question they were asked. i will give them 30 seconds to do so. to be fair, their opponent will get an additional 30 seconds to respond. we are providing another important service to this debate thanks to our data team.

many complex issues require deeper context and verification from reliable sources. so we have that for you. after each question, our data team will post links to resources on our wba website. i will remind you throughout the debate and a qr code and a link will direct you there. please note, we are addressing the candidates using the titles they have requested. the order of response for the first question and the last question was determined by a coin toss. with that, let's begin with the first question which comes from allison fergus. >> we are going to get -- begin by discussing the economy. the stock market closed at an all-time high. employment in wisconsin is at a record high. inflation has slowed. we know many people still feel that the cost of many things is still too high. we are going to ask about the

variety of issues that focus on the cost of living and we will begin with health care. more than a quarter of a million wisconsinites rely on the affordable care act for their health insurance. the most recent polling shows that 62% of the country supports the law. you said we need to move beyond the aca. senator baldwin, you have said we need to preserve it. if anything, what would you change about the affordable care act? each will have 60 seconds to respond. >> well thank you. thank you everybody for joining tonight. it's wonderful. thank you for hosting. it's nice finally getting this debate. the affordable care act made three promises. promise number one, it would slow down the cost of health care. promise number two, it would increase the access to health care. promise number three, you would be able to keep your family doctor.

i'm a believer in results. if you look at the results, every one of those promises have failed. costs of health care have only skyrocketed further. health care has declined sickness -- think difficult link. the family doctor has all but disappeared. the only thing that's meaningful was the pre-existing conditions. i have multiple sclerosis so i understand the importance of that. we need a significant restructuring of our health care system. >> thank you. sen. baldwin: i went throughout my youth without health insurance because of a pre-existing condition. i grew up believing that was wrong. i had the honor of serving on a panel when i was in the house of representatives that wrote the affordable care act. it was my provision that allowed young people to stay on their parents health insurance until they turned 26.

sadly my opponent called that together provision stupid and has a -- has said that he would overturn the affordable care act in its entirety. including that provision that allows people to stay on their parents health insurance. he opposes efforts to negotiate with the big pharmaceutical companies to lower the price of restriction drugs, saving patients and medicare money. we need to build upon the affordable care act and we need to build upon our efforts to negotiate lower prescription drug prices. >> thank you. we will stay with the cost of health care. the question is going to come from pbs wisconsin. >> the cost of insulin has been reduced and capped at $35 for many americans. beginning in 2026, a number of other widely prescribed drugs will have their common -- copayment decrease. many believe more needs to be

done. what would you do as a u.s. senator to reduce the cost of prescription drugs. sen. baldwin: i would certainly continue our negotiations with the big pharmaceutical companies. you hear people regularly going to canada and other places to get less expensive drugs. why is that? those countries negotiate on behalf of their citizens. until recently, the big pharmaceutical companies had a sweetheart deal that prevented those negotiations. two years ago, we passed a bill to get those started. sadly, my opponent would have voted against that measure. he said that many times. we are seeing real reductions in prices that will save patients money but also extend the solvency of medicare. we are also seeing my own when i forced the asthma inhaler

manufacturers to lower their prices to know more than $35 per month out of pocket. >> your response? mr. hovde: i can't believe what i just heard. it is one what -- lie after another. i believe we need to negotiate with big farmer. i think our drug prices are too high. when i first started taking my medications for ms, they cost $6,000 a year. now they cost 35,000. i'm the one who was against big pharma. it's your wall street partner who invests in big pharma. you oversee it and take massive amounts of money. your whole campaign is funded by wall street big pharma and big tech. that's how you launched your attack ads against me. i can't even believe he would say that i don't want to negotiate against drug prices. i think drug prices are wildly too high. i will actually do something about it because i'm not taking big pharma money. i'm not taking special-interest

money. her partner is making money off of it and doesn't even disclose the prophet she's making. >> we are going to move onto childcare. i want to tell you both think -- one thing. we will have a final question that wants you to respond to everything you would like to challenge. that will be in our final question. sen. baldwin: but not right now? >> we are going to move to childcare. >> a typical wisconsin family with an infant and a four-year-old spends about one third of their income on childcare. some even have a hard time finding that childcare because of a lack of workers. wisconsin's medium wage for childcare workers is $13.17 an hour. how would you support childcare providers and reduce childcare costs through your policies? this is a 62nd response.

mr. hovde: this is a big problem in our country. my wife was a single mother. i saw the struggles she had, providing for childcare. that was over 30 years ago. it's only gotten worse. in my companies, i'm known as a family-friendly employer. we go out of our way to create greater flexibility for our employees who just had a child or have young children. as i like to say, if you have a need or a special event, you go and be at those events. i think we need to create a partnership with business and government, whether it's tax credit to the individual or tax credits to a business to help this issue. it's a very serious issue that we know very personally in our family, when my my was a single mom.

sen. baldwin: so we have a childcare crisis in this country. child claire really struggled during the pandemic. many daycare centers closed. many family group settings close. we also know this is an area where the free market just doesn't work. the workers get far too little pay and tuition is just out of reach of so many people. it costs almost as much to send your child to childcare as it does tuition at a uw school. that's outrageous. only nine months to plan for childcare expensive. i want to tell you about the plan. he's announced a plan recently that would reduce federal spending back to levels of the last decade. while i've been fighting to increase the childcare development block grant by $1 billion last year and the

proposal is $2 billion this year. >> thank you senator. your time is up. let's move now to social security. >> america wants to know that social security will be there when they retire. according to the social security are socially -- administration, if congress doesn't act before 2035, benefits will be reduced by nearly 20%. there is something congress can do. what is your plan? you will have 50 -- 60 seconds to respond. sen. baldwin: we can extend the solvency of social security very easily. it's called lifting the income tax. right now, smalltime millionaires like my appointment pay minute amounts. they are not doing their fair share. if we lifted that income tax,

the solvency would be extended for many years. let me tell you about something even more troubling. the plan that reverts and resets spending levels to levels from the last decade would cut social security by 28%. an average of $500 per month. $6,000 per year. talk about when people need money in their pockets. he is supporting the plan because he supports of corporate -- $4 trillion tax giveaway to the very wealthy and big corporations. he supports spending, just not for you. mr. hovde: [laughter] man, the one thing you have perfected in washington is your ability to live. i can't even believe you have the ability to stand here and say something like that. i believe we need to protect social security. keep it sacrosanct for everybody who is on social security or getting ready to retire.

if you want to know why social security is in trouble, it is simple. we have taken federal debt from 5.5 billion to 36 trillion dollars. that's why cbo has projected to go cash flow negative in 8.5 years. so we would have cap social security in a trust and not pilfered from it like you have for the last 26 years as a politician. social security would be a better place. we have to look at things for social security like for those younger people because life expectancy is going up, make adjustments for that. >> to that point, we will stay talking about seniors. we are going to talk about long-term care. >> wisconsin is facing a serious

shortage of qualified caretakers to work in nursing homes and other long-term care settings such as in-home health care and assisted living. one study says wisconsin will need an additional 10,000 health care workers over the next decade for senior care alone. do you feel the federal government should be addressing this need? if so, how? mr. hovde: thank you. it's a very serious problem. i'm the youngest year of the baby boom 60 -- baby boom generation. 1946. we will have a lot of people hitting retirement age. look. the problem is we have a lot of people out of the workforce today. we've got to get more people back into the workforce. that's an important part. a lot of nursing homeowners are struggling with the massive amounts of regulations that they

are also dealing with with senator baldwin and politicians that continue to heap on them. so we have to take a private-sector approach to try to drive more employment into that sector. yes, that will increase the rise of wages. being a nursing home worker is a difficult job. >> senator baldwin? sen. baldwin: yes. we need to focus on the workforce. we need to have multiple pathways to get a great paying job. caring for our seniors. i believe in apprenticeships. i believe in the programs that are starting nursing programs in high school and then creating a debt-free path to getting a higher degree. there's a lot we can do and there's a lot that has already been advanced into congress to do just that. but i have to say, when we talk

about seniors, we have to respect our seniors. i was raised by my grandparents. it made me aware of the meaningful difference that programs like social security and medicare made in our lives. my grandmother broke her hip at age 90 and voted for me for congress from her nursing room. eric has said that people in nursing homes are at no point to vote. >> your time is up. we are going to move on to talk about reproductive rights. that question from -- comes from allison. >> uphold released wednesday found that 61% of those polled across the country oppose the supreme court decision to overturn roe v. wade. spurring some lawmakers to codify or put into law the provisions. it establishes the right to an abortion that also sets limits and includes exceptions. what is your position on once

again making it the law of the land? sen. baldwin: a woman's right and freedoms should not depend upon her zip code or state. in wisconsin, we have criminal abortion ban that was passed in the year 1849. we have services accessible in three out of our 72 counties. that means 69 counties, there's no access. harrowing things are happening to women in this state. i've talked to women who face the risk of sepsis and near death before they can get the services that they needed. that's why i'm so proud to lead the women's health protection act which would restore it nationwide. my opponent has said that he is 100% opposed to abortion rights. i'm trying to leave the way to restore row so that we don't see

prosecution of women who have miscarried or doctors who are providing health care. women are dying because of the current situation. mr. hovde: look, it's been brought back to our state. we as a state should resolve this in a common and compassionate approach. i believe in the beauty of life. i agree with exceptions for rape, incest, and the health of the mother. i think women should have a right to decide early on in their pregnancy. senator baldwin, you have passed or pushed to allow abortion to happen up to the point of delivery. where a healthy baby can be born alive and be terminated. to me, that is unconscionable. you are shaking your head. what month would you stop? eighth month? is it the ninth month? you run these ads saying i'm for

national abortion ban. i'm not. i never have been. when she talks about my comments from 14 years ago, my daughters were young and then they grew up. >> time is up but i'm going to exercise moderators option to redirect you to the question that was asked. which is specifically about re-codifying the affordable care act excuse me. roe v. wade. information about that is on our data page. but i'm going to ask you to respond that -- to that question about making it the law of the land. you will get 30 seconds to respond. mr. hovde: i think i did. i said if it comes back to the states, we as a state should resolve this issue with a referendum. where everybody gets the right to vote. the voters get the right to vote, i get the right to vote. i clarified where my position is. that is, i believe that women

should have a right to choose early on in the pregnancy but there comes a point where a baby can be born healthy and alive and i think it's unconscionable to terminate that child's life. sen. baldwin: that does not happen. it's very clear that he has never read roe v. wade. i'm pushing to have that be the law of the land. your rights and freedom should not depend on your zip code. what he just said doesn't happen in america. let me tell you, health care providers facing the threat of prosecution. states with six-week bands. states with no exceptions for rape and incense. >> we are going to move to another contentious topic. this one is immigration. >> a sweeping bipartisan border bill failed to pass the u.s.

senate this year. that would have added tougher standards to qualify for asylum, allow for partial shutdowns at the border, and open no avenues for legal immigration. in the interest of border security, would you like to see this bill revived? why or why not? mr. hovde: that bill was dead on arrival. it was masquerading as a border bill but it was really funding ukraine. every senator once they found out what was in it was opposed to it. the simple fact is, it would have codified allowing 5000 illegal immigrants coming into our country every single day. it wasn't going to change any of the asylum laws for immigration laws at all. here's the reality. you can't run from this fact. president trump, only 300,000 illegal immigrants came into the country. joe biden lifted 95 executive orders. most import lay, stay in mexico.

we don't know how many have come in. it has flooded the streets with fentanyl. we have criminals that have entered into our country. it has created a humanitarian crisis. i have fought against sex trafficking for 20 years and they can't account for 300,000 children. >> thank you. your time is up. your response, senator baldwin? the question was about the bipartisan bill. sen. baldwin: yes. so we negotiated on a bipartisan basis in the senate the toughest border bill that they've seen in years. it would have added 1500 border patrol agent's to our southern border. had it passed in the spring, they would be there now. very importantly, the bill also deployed technology to our southern border to allow us to scan every vehicle that comes through the ports of entry.

that would have allowed us to interdict fentanyl that is poisoning folks across the country. the border patrol agents endorsed this measure. but you know what? tammy baldwin -- eric hovde and donald trump wanted the political issue. they wanted the chaos. they didn't want the solution. i'm focusing on real solutions. eric hovde wants to run political ads against me. >> you mention political labs. we will both make you uncomfortable with the next question because it's about misleading ads. the question is going to come from shannon. >> viewers have told us they are frustrated with negative ads. let's talk about two of them. senator baldwin, your add claims that mr. hovde calls farmers lazy. you said tammy baldwin offer transgender treatment without

parental consent. both of these ads have been found false. both of these ads and with you saying, i approve this message. why don't you pull these ads? sen. baldwin: fact-checks have all produced false results. eric hovde is lying. i think it's really hard to say that and add is false when you are hearing eric hovde in his own words. you are seeing this with your eyes. i'm telling you things he has said. the content of that ad relating to farmers. he was doing an interview about why we could easily increase the retirement age to 72, because farmers didn't take the physical

toil they used to. they just largely ride around on tractors. i spend so much time with dairy farmers and i can tell you, they are insulted by those words. i stand by those. mr. hovde: every single one of senator baldwin's ads has been alive. i'm supposedly a jerk from california. i was born and raised in the state, spent my last 12 years living where you grew up. i vote here. i live here. i was raised here. i'm a uw grad. you are not. sen. baldwin: i am. mr. hovde: law school, not undergrad. as it pertains to the clinic, she funded an earmark for that clinic. the clinic changed what's on its website and took down that it did it without parental approval. but every single one of her ads

has been false. senator baldwin, you claim i live in california. that's where i am. i'm not a wisconsinite. even though i said, i live in the neighborhood where you grew up. there's a way to prove it. it's called a utility bill. i have my utility bill. let's get them for the last 10 years. moderator: your time is up. i don't believe that we heard from either of you about the question that was asked. what should a candidate do if an ad that they have produced is known and proven to be false? should you withdraw that ad? so i'm going to give each of you again another 30 seconds to answer that question, starting with senator baldwin's she responded first. sen. baldwin: so, you have seen ads where we have amplified things that eric hovde has said.

sometimes he has said those on right-wing radio talk shows. sometimes he has said those in television interviews. i think it's totally fair for a candidate for amplify what their opponent has said, especially as a proof point of where they stand with regard to fighting for you. mr. hovde: i think i addressed it. what you are saying, the ad that i ran about the clinic, it's not false. they just change their webpage. as it pertains to senator baldwin, literally everything the one of her ads, she even claims for the things she's accomplished, she didn't accomplish. she's trying to take credit for doing something against fentanyl when it was senator tim scott's bill. he said, senator baldwin offered no amendment and he hadn't talked to her for two years. moderator: your time is up. we are going to change gears to foreign policy.

we are going to move to jeff. >> just this week, the leader of hamas was killed by israeli forces. some hope this could bring the war between israel and hamas closer to a cease-fire. polls show americans want u.s. support for israel but are also worried about civilian casualties. the biden administration has told israel to let more humanitarian aid into gaza in 30 days for face reduction of usaid. should the u.s. continue to aid israel? should restrictions be placed on that aid? mr. hovde: look, israel was attacked. they lost thousands of lives. if our country was attacked, we would wage war on that country if it happened in mexico or in canada. the biden administration constantly meddling in trying to engage and tell them how to wage a war is wrong.

but let's go back to what this conflict is really about. it's not so much between the palestinian people and israel. it's really between iran and israel. and the u.s.. around controls obama's and hezbollah. they are both funded. senator baldwin not only voted for the deal that president obama allowed iran to lift the sanctions and get cash payments that fueled isis and terrorism. president trump put in crushing sanctions and had around on its back. senator baldwin goes back and votes for the deal that joe biden lifted the sanctions that funded terrorism. that's why we are in this war today. moderator: senator? sen. baldwin: yes. a little over a year ago on october 7, we saw a horrible terrorist attack on israel. 1200 people dead. rape was ud