in ukraine, because we do not have a plan. one day they tell is no american-made missile blend in russia. the next week we tell us that might happen. let a more potent -- vladimir putin says if that does happen more is on the table. it is a stalemate at best. many people believe russia is winning, and you can see it on zelenskyy's face when he is begging for more money. of course i favor democracy, but we have got to new -- know what the plan is. to the warmongers in washington and many people believe that russia is winning and you can see it on zielinski's face when he's here begging for more money. my vote will have to be earned like any other vote. and of course i favor democracy but we've got to know what the plan is. and to the warmongers in

washington saying ukraine is going to win is a plan, that is not a plan. that's a wish. we could have spent medicaid money and expanded medicaid in the states that didn't adopt it, giving millions of more people health insurance for 20 years. it's been 30 years since tupac said it, but i'm going to say it again. they've got money for war, but can't feed the poor. sen. warren: keep in mind that what mr. deaton has said is that he would not fund ukraine. i have been to ukraine. i have met more than once with president zelenskyy. the ukrainians are fighting the front-line war for democracy. anyone who thinks we can just turn our backs on ukraine and that vladimir putin won't take the whole country and after he

takes that countries take another and another and another is just kidding themselves. i want to give real credit here actually to joe biden because he is somebody who pulled together all of the nations of europe to say we are going to support ukraine because we understand that if putin takes ukraine, he is coming for poland, he is coming for estonia, he is coming for the other nations in europe. we are a partner for ukraine as they fight for democracy and i think that's powerfully important. the question we have to ask ourselves is why are these handful of republicans who have turned their backs on ukraine and the answer is because donald trump is still angry with ukraine because ukraine wouldn't help him try to dig up dirt on joe biden back when donald trump was president. remember that originally the republicans were all in for ukraine.

and then this extremist group broke off and said no no, donald trump doesn't like it so they want to turn our backs on a nation that's an ally. moderator: mr. deaton, would you be a no vote on any future considerations for ukraine? mr. deaton: i didn't say that. i said my vote has to be earned. her vote is taken for granted. in the first month of the invasion, vladimir putin was willing to go back to russia as long as zielinski agreed that ukraine would not enter nato. why was that deal turned down? i don't have the briefings that senator warren is getting, but i want to know what the plan is. all i'm saying is the american people deserve to know what the plan is. coming back every six months and giving billions of dollars when people can't pay their rent, i just want to know the plan and no one is articulating the plan.

the american people deserve trent -- deserve transparency. it wasn't an america's vital interest for ukraine to be in nato for 50 plus years. why is it so important today? maybe the senator can share with us why. that ukraine needs to be a member of nato. moderator: 30 seconds for the last word on this. sen. warren: mr. deaton has already been quoted in the press saying he will not support funding for ukraine. mr. deaton: that's not true. sen. warren: that's what the press has said. he wants to know the plan, we will make the plan clear. we will fight back against vladimir putin's invasion of a neighbor. that's a violation of international law. and if mr. deaton wants to be an appeaser, then he can take that label. but we stand up and fight back

for the boundaries that exist and we do not support vladimir putin taking over ukraine. moderator: we are going to move on to a different topic of local importance in western massachusetts. a long talked about issue is east-west expanded passenger rail service between boston and the rest of the state. this could unlock jobs and housing opportunities as well. senator, i will start with you. if you are reelected what will you do to make this a reality? sen. warren: i am all in on east-west rail. i think it will help every part of massachusetts. i tell you what it's going to take to get it done. i work with richie neil on this and we are now laying the foundation for this. but here's the problem. republicans have blocked doing a

really big infrastructure bill. and the kind of money we are going to need for east-west rail to get it right and make it work is going to take a significant investment. remember when donald trump was president how infrastructure week was the punchline to a joke on late-night television and that was because you couldn't get the republicans to come along and actually build up the kind of infrastructure we need. we have had underinvestment in infrastructure for years. finally in the two years that joe biden was president and democrats had control of both the house and senate, we got the biggest infrastructure package in history actually passed through. and that means we have started the money for building out the plans for east-west rail. i know that richard neal is committed to this. i am committed to this. we know the governor is committed to this.

we are going to get the money together and get this done. moderator: you have 90 seconds to respond. mr. deaton: every time elizabeth warren speaks, in her since there are three things. there is a verb, there is a noun and there is trump and you will see that repeatedly. on this issue i believe this is very critical for western mass and this is what it could do for the entire state. we have such a housing problem in massachusetts. in greater boston it is 900 $80,000 for the median home price. if you go statewide, it's 650 1000. that is 200,000 more than the national average. people are being priced out of the economy. we are now the second most expensive state to live in for working families. i see incorporating western mass as a way to alleviate that.

obviously it's going to come down to funding that senator warren and i can agree we need to invest in western mass. alternative energy is screaming in western mass. even a very limited nuclear in western mass. we could get hydro from canada and that would create jobs and help the economy. so i'm all for it. we've got to do it. it would alleviate all kinds of issues not just for western mass but the entire state. moderator: you have one minute. sen. warren: i am glad to hear mr. deaton endorse east-west rail. that's why i'm in the fight alongside richard neal to make sure we get all of our colleagues in washington to sign off on this so we can actually get the funding for it. part of the way we get that funding is when democrats can stay in the majority in the senate and the house in order to

get this done. but i want to hit something else that mr. deaton raised and that is housing prices. absolutely right. housing prices are out of control. we have been sitting here for 40 years talking about how housing prices are going up and up and it has truly reached crisis proportions. it is time for the federal government to partner up and that's why i have mayors saying i want to be part of that. the warren plan is a plan to build more housing and bring down costs. mr. deaton is one to say let the private market fix it like it has fixed at the last 30 years. mr. deaton: she believes the government is the solution to all problems in society and she believes -- i'm surprised she didn't say we are going to fund it by taxing the wealthy because every single thing she says, climate change, housing,

education, every issue is tax the wealthy. and she didn't say that and i'm curious. the bottom line is the government is the problem most of the time. builders are taking two years just to get welding permits. we -- building permits. we have to cut the red tape. moderator: because you haven't held elected office, we don't know much of your record. what we do know comes mostly from your book and the stories you have shared publicly. one of them is regarding an incident involving one of your siblings where you misled law enforcement knowing that you wouldn't be called to testify against her as a marine corps prosecutor irving a different state. in your book you said, although i lied to the cops, i wasn't under oath and i would never testify against my sister for what she didn't do. what should the public make of your willingness to break rules and lied to law enforcement? why should people trust you?

mr. deaton: i would encourage everyone to read my book. i come from extreme poverty living in one of the most dangerous neighborhoods in america. my mother was stabbed when i was six in front of me. for two years i was raped by a predator in the neighborhood. my best friend died in a drive-by shooting. the first day of high school i had a gun shoved in my mouth. a tiny catholic high school gave me a chance and quite frankly saved my life and he made me earn it and i worked my way through high school and then college and here in boston. the marine corps chose me over all the other schools to represent the commonwealth. for 22 years i have been represented working families. senator warren represents bankers, i represent plumbers. going against the biggest corporations in the world and i have done it for cancer victims.

i am a small business owner and father of three daughters and i am the american dream. when you look at the senate, you don't see someone like that. someone who knows what the daily struggles of everyday people are. i do and i think it's time we send someone like that to the senate. my sister oh dude twice. i chose to save her life and she texted me that i saved her life. do, how are you. i know you are watching. i'm the american dream. i know what it's like to struggle and i will work for everyone watching this right now. moderator: senator warren, you have 90 seconds. sen. warren: i think this is a question of trust and i'm glad you asked that question. when john deaton was arrested for assault at a kids football game, the arresting officer came up and john deaton told him to

back off because he, john deaton, knew all the judges. and when the officer decided that he was going to go ahead, put him in the car, take him downtown and book him, john deaton told the officer that he makes so much money that he paid more in taxes every year and the police officer earned in his annual salary. i think there's a fundamental question here about who you can trust and i think you can't trust someone like john deaton with power. i appreciate that john deaton grew up in a really poor family and in a really difficult circumstance. and i have some sense of what it's like to listen to your mother cry because she can't pay the bills and worried you are going to lose your housing. but the question is what do you take away from that? for me i will tell you. i have spent my whole life fighting for working families. john deaton, he takes care of

himself first. take a look at his tax returns. worth what? tens of millions of dollars, maybe $100 million and he couldn't find more than $56 to give to charity across two years? there really is a question of who you trust to fight for your family or to fight for themselves. people of massachusetts know me. they know i'm fighting for them. moderator: i want to remind you the question is why should the public trust you. mr. deaton: the same thing senator harris said last night when she was interviewed. i'm an open book. i wrote a book and i explained all the problems. i will tell you the police just endorsed me after reading my book that senator warren referenced. i went before them and they agreed with me because the police had an arrest incentive

program where they were arresting people based on the number of arrests. i sued them and i stopped that and that practice ended. instead of looking at my life and saying well, that is a good example of someone who came from dirt poverty who was raped as a child for two years who saw his mother crawled in the ground and thought he was going to use her -- lose her at six years old, you would think she would say that's good, but she's back to demonizing everyone. i have made mistakes in my life and i have owned them, but i have never claimed to be someone or something i'm not. can you say the same? sen. warren: let's be clear. this arrest at a kids football game, when he told the police officer just how much he thought the police officer was worth is not something that happened in john deaton's youth.

it happened not too long ago living in rhode island. and what he did, the police arrested him and prosecuted him. he turned around and sued the police and he lost that lawsuit. mr. deaton: that's not true's. sen. warren: he is not someone we can trust. moderator: we are going to move on. mr. deaton: it's not true. the case is still pending. moderator: we need to move on. we have a lot to get to. the next question is for senator warren. your challenger said you were partially responsible for two hospitals closing. two questions. how do you respond to these accusations and what role did you play in trying to keep these medical facilities open

specifically? sen. warren: understand why these hospitals closed. they closed because private equity came in and sucked a billion dollars in value out of what originally had been not-for-profit hospitals. think about what our nurses could have done if that billion dollars had been reinvested in those hospitals. but they didn't. they took all of that out of the hospitals and basically used it to buy yachts and airplanes. i am fighting to make sure that private equity does not eat up more of our health care system. mr. deaton's complaint is that i don't think we ought to have one more giant company come in and buy up our hospitals. we need to get this profit motive out of our health care system and it's true for our hospitals. it is true for our pharmacies. it is true for our doctors practices, it is true for our nurses, people who are trying to provide care. and keep in mind if we end up

with republican control of the united states senate, these are people who have tried over and over to repeal the affordable care act. donald trump says he's coming forward again. that will cost massachusetts billions of dollars. and results in more hospital closures here. we need to support our health care system, not tear it apart the way mr. deaton and the extremist republicans want to do . moderator: what could or should the senator have done to keep these hospitals open? mr. deaton: the first thing she should have done is stayed out of it. united health care was going to buy the hospitals. she objected immediately just to object. we lost two hospitals and now pregnant women in massachusetts have to go for 40 minutes to drive to give birth because she wanted to fit her brand.

just like when amazon was going to buy i robot, hundreds of people lost jobs. senator warren talks about trust, yet she has proven to be corrupt in washington. are you going to address the fact that she's sits on the banking committee and gary gensler who she is supposed to oversee, she gave him not only the questions but the answers to what she was going to say. she said i'm going to ask you these questions under oath. and then senator warren gets on tv and says don't take my word for it, gary gensler said it when she's the one who told him. that is corruption to its core and senator warren is guilty. i prosecuted as a federal prosecutor's perjury cases and i could convict senator warren like that on this and i hope she addresses that because you were

a law professor and i'm going to ask you when you give the student to examine the answers and then give that student and a, with that professor get fired? sen. warren: let's start with health care? mr. deaton: you are not going to start with gary gensler? sen. warren: let's start with health care. mr. deaton: exactly. sen. warren: twice now my opponent has alleged that united hospital offered to buy the hospitals. those are not the facts. they offered to buy up the doctor's practice. the hospitals were out there loose and on their own. go back and check the facts. listen to what he says each time. if the solution to the fact that our hospitals have been hollowed out by private equity. the ninth largest corporation in the world to just buy them up and squeeze more profits out of health care. what is the answer to every problem for mr. deaton is bringing more people who can squeeze out more profits.

he wants to talk about corruption? 80% of mr. deaton's wealth is tied up in crypto. 90% of his funding for this campaign is coming from crypto. and 100% of his loyalty in washington will be to crypto. that is corruption. mr. deaton: you notice that she didn't even mention i called her corrupt and she wouldn't even address it. she won't address the epstein stuff either. she just wants to kick it under the carpet and pretend it didn't happen. i can tell you this. i come from extreme poverty. i made all my money before i went to washington. people are sick of people like you going to washington, d.c. broke and coming back 10 years later multimillionaires. i don't think you should ever condemn anyone in the private sector who came from poverty and food stamps. when you say i didn't donate, i

sued the sec. i won lawyer of the year award. freedom defender award because i did all that work pro bono. sen. warren: he did pro bono work for crypto? are you kidding me think that counts as a charitable contribution? [crosstalk] moderator: staying on the issue of health care, you have said you are the pro-choice candidate in this race and you told our colleague in a recent interview putting a bill on the floor that codifies roe v. wade would be a top priority for you if elected. you have also said you do not support late-term abortions and that is part of the debate about what a federal abortion rights bill should and should not include. along with religious objections for health care workers who do not want to be involved in abortions.

what provisions would you include in a bill that your republican colleagues would vote for? mr. deaton: i can't tell you whether the republican colleagues would vote for, but i can tell you what john deaton would do. massachusetts actually got this right. which gives a woman right up to 22 weeks to have unrestricted access to abortion. after that period of time she's not allowed unless it's for her health reasons or there is a anomaly. we are talking about the viability issue around that time. that's what i support. there are six people responsible for the overturning of roe. donald trump, brett kavanaugh, amy coney barrett, neil gorsuch, harry reid and senator elizabeth warren. i'm going to have my campaign staff, i want you to post a 2013

media advisory by elizabeth warren where she bragged that she was going to push harry reid to get rid of the filibuster even though they were told that republicans would then use it for the supreme court. so you understand everyone out there that her fingerprints are all over this decision. the supreme court would not look the way it does today if senator warren would have honored the fact that in the senate it takes hard work. the filibuster rule was in place for over 100 years and required compromise. senator warren wanted to say, i got 51. you have 51 votes now in the senate. so i would encourage you to do it. sen. warren: this comes down to a question of trust. can you really trust john deaton. when he was asked who he would vote for for supreme court, you know who he named?

neil gorsuch. one of the people who turned over roe v. wade. and what do we know about neil gorsuch at the time the vote came up? we knew that as lower court judge she had done the hobby lobby opinion which restricted access to contraception. we knew he had come from a list of prescreened people who would be antiabortion and we knew that 50 groups that support access to abortion had opposed neil gorsuch and yet john deaton says i would have voted for him. and now john deaton gives us the big defense of the filibuster that keeps us from making roe v. wade law of the land. that's the problem. we can't pass it with 52 votes because the republicans filibuster us. so here's the deal. if republicans are in control of

the senate, there will be no bill to make roe v. wade law of the land. it doesn't matter where the we have 50 votes for it, 51 or 52. with republican control of the senate, we will have no bill to codify roe v. wade and that means when they are coming for us in massachusetts, we have no defense. mr. deaton: i get 30 seconds based on the format. june of 2022 is when the dobbs decision came down. joe biden was president. the democrats had the house and the senate. they could have codified it. but senator warren didn't do that. she didn't go to the floor and say i demand that every senator take a stand right now. you want to know why? because they wanted it just like donald trump wanted immigration has an issue, they wanted it as an election issue for the midterm's and they didn't want

to upset joe manchin in west virginia. i believe and term limits so i don't subscribe to sitting back trying to maneuver how we can have control this day or that day or i don't care if there is a republican west virginia. i care about massachusetts and so john deaton was in the senate , as a republican i would have demanded every united states senator take a stand now. that's what advocacy is. sen. warren: we have voted on roe v. wade and i stood up and said we should vote on this and the problem we have is because the republicans filibustered it. we could not get to 60 votes. we put everyone on record, the credits and republicans on where you are on roe v. wade. mr. deaton is just wrong. he doesn't know what happened here. when he defends the filibuster,

what he's doing is saying don't get anything done in the united states. moderator: that's time. moderator: you had radically different reactions to a pair of decisions handed down this past year. the chevron doctrine was overturned by the court. it had granted broad authority to regulatory agencies for decades on the court found that presidents have absolute criminal immunity when it comes to exercising their core powers. senator warren, why do you think these rulings are so dangerous? sen. warren: two reasons. one is that we don't need or want a dictator in this country. we founded this country because we didn't want a king. and yet to this extremist supreme court has said that donald trump can do whatever he wants to do and as long as he's president they are not going to

interfere and the law can't interfere. we have a central principle in the united states and that is no one is above the law. the chevron doctrine a little bit down in the weeds here but the basic notion is that our agencies need to be able to do their work. so the environmental protection agency needs to be able to set clean-air standards. the department of education needs to set standards to make sure our special needs kids are getting the services and help they need. that's true throughout government. department of transportation does landing slots. and yet what the chevron doctrine use to do is it said that the courts have to defer. maybe congress didn't write down that the parts per million on how much mercury can be in air has to be .0 00 three. we left it up to the agency. and what the supreme court is doing is saying we don't want those agencies to function.

we went to ground government to a halt and put all of the power with judges. we can't run our country that way. it will hurt us all. moderator: you cheered chevron's reversal and said the reaction was immature. can you elaborate? mr. deaton: noticed the agencies senator warren didn't bring up was the securities and exchange commission. i literally looked her in the face and respectfully said she is corrupt. and this proves it. she had gary gensler, she is supposed to hold him accountable. because she had a specific agenda in mind she said and this is proven by foia request, here are my questions i'm going to ask you to an upcoming hearing under oath and here's what i want you to say and then she asked those exact questions and he gave those exact answers