[applause]

>> good evening everyone. my name is -- and i am the president of the -- program at yale. it is my pleasure to welcome you to tonight's event featuring

commentator and radio host ben shapiro for a conversation on how october 7 broke american college campuses. first i want to extend my thanks to carol brown who was with us in the audience and the young america's foundation -- for making this event possible. [applause] before i introduce mr. shapiro, i would like to say a few words about the program. the william buckley jr. program is the flagship program of an organization dedicated to promoting intellectual diversity and open political discussions at yale. we've posted lectures, seminars, debates and annual conference every year since 2011. by providing yale students with a forum to engage meaningfully with serious conservative thought, the program has become an institution on yale's campus and a symbol for a more open and representative political atmosphere, especially at a university where the mission is the cultivation and creation of new knowledge, buckley fellows

believe all perspectives must be heard and examined in good faith. you can learn more about the program and how to become a fellow on our website. before we begin tonight's program, i want to emphasize the buckley programs commitment to freedom of speech. disruption of an event is not consistent with yells policies on freedom of expression as outlined in the report. i would ask that each of you respect the right of our speakers to be heard and the right of your fellow audience members to listen to the event. thank you for joining us in upholding the value of free speech. [applause] i would also like to solemnly reflect on significance of today's date. one year ago today, hamas terrorists infiltrated israeli towns and villages, murdering 1200 innocent men, women and children and committing horrible atrocities. this unconscionable act was the

single deadliest attack on jews since the holocaust. -- to think about these ongoing crises. and now, our guest for tonight. ben shapiro is the founding editor-in-chief and editor emeritus of the daily wire and the host of the ben shapiro show, the largest and fastest-growing growing conservative podcast show in the nation. in addition, he also hosts debunked, his book club, the search and the sunday special. mr. shapiro is a new york times best-selling offer -- author of over a dozen books, focusing on higher education, free speech and israel.

he is a much sought after voice across the country for his incisive commentary on the state of our democracy and our nation. he's been a strong supporter of israel throughout his life and has been particularly vocal in his support of israel's right to defend itself since the october 7 terror attack. mr. shapiro was hired by -- to become the youngest nationally syndicated columnist in the united states. he earned a ba in political science from ucla in 2004 and even though he graduated from harvard law school in 2007, we are stilling prettily grateful to have him here at yale. without further ado, please join me in welcoming ben shapiro to yale. [applause] thank you so much for being here tonight. >> thanks for having me.

>> it is the first anniversary of the horrible terrorist attack on israel and i know that many are spending today in morning, but others even in the united states or on yells campus are celebrating today's date. i would like to ask you why you wanted to speak on a college campus on this day and yale in particular. >> i think october 7 revealed a lot of truths about the world and i think one of the biggest truths was revealed in the days after october 7 when even before israel's retaliation began or the operation began, there were widespread protests across the west on college campuses in favor of hamas, in favor of islam, and favor of those who would remove israel from the planet and that revealed to me a cancer at the heart of american education that i've been writing about for a long time, a rot at the core of american education and i think it is important to

come and speak about that tonight, because it is not just the day of mourning, it is a reminder of what happens when the west coast to sleep on its own principles, when it imports people who don't believe in principles and want to cultivate an entire generation of people who don't believe in civilization. >> you mentioned that protests started against israel before israel responded to october 7, and there were comparatively few responses that i saw against hamas. in fact today, there was a yell student group who encouraged us not to attend class in order to quote, stand in solidarity to mourn the martyrs of palestine. could you speak to the mentality behind those who want to blame israel october 7 and what do you think about the religious language on college campuses? >> there are a few different groups that are conflicted in this particular message. group number one would be radical fundamentalist muslims who believe israel must be wiped off the map. certainly not all muslims.

i know many muslims who do not want that. there are many palestinian to do not believe that -- palestinians who do not believe that. then there is the secondary group, american leftist college students who unfortunately believe success is inherently connected with exploitation and that anyone who claims to be a victim and is unsuccessful and lives in a way that seems impoverished or violent, they must have been pushed into that by the great exploiter, it is the aqueous narrative in politics, echoes all the way back to cain and abel. it has been repeated here. the basic idea is that because israel is disproportionately powerful, successful, because israel has actually built itself into a thriving democratic country, because of that, anyone in the region who is suffering, that must be a byproduct, it is zero-sum thinking that is not true at all. that sort of thinking leads to

bizarre coalitions like you see on college campuses where you see people with signs that say queers for palestine which is one of the great mysteries of human history. the question becomes -- the answer is you have people who believe they are marginalized by the system who believe they are victimized by the system, gathering together in a coalition to fight the great oppressor. israel being the bleeding point of the spear. >> here at yale, as with many other campuses around the nation, we have an encampment, two of them of pro-palestine students occupying a common space and denying that space to other students who may not agree with those views. i'm curious what you think the mindset of students who go beyond normal rallies, normal protests. why did they feel they need to stage this more radical action? >> i'm not a psychologist. it would take a psychologist to examine why someone would want to live in their own feces.

the general plush barrette is presumably -- bush -- general plush barrette is the more you disassociate from civilization, the more holy you are. if you occupy a space in one of the most privilege spaces in american life, if you take up that space and make that space a dangerous place to be, you bar entry to that space, somehow you disrupt the will of the great oppressor. struck a blow to the great oppressor. -- the majority of people who do this are upset about the potentiality of being expelled from the college campus and whine about it the minute any consequences actually hit them. it is the same sort of dealing -- a lot of folks in modern politics, that is a feeling of virtue signaling that makes people feel a sense of purpose that they cannot find anywhere else or that it is appropriate to be alienating yourself from the institution you are already a beneficiary of. >> do you think any universities

dealt with october 7 as well? >> you've the university of florida dealt with it great. at the time being run by the president down there, said you are perfectly within your right to protest in designated spaces, and then you violate those he will be expelled. that was the end of it. it was not really difficult. and it also turns out whenever you hear viewpoint doesn't have to do with it, the universities would have let anyone do this -- we know what -- it is. to put it bluntly. if people had been in yale protesting in favor of white supremacy, they would have been expelled and we know it. >> i want to focus on university bureaucracies for a moment. zoom in a little closer to what i think the problem might be. diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts are often a huge part in any university's bureaucracy. even at yale. i wonder what you think it is dei places such little emphasis on jewish individuals in particular by the historic marginalization of jews?

>> because historic marginalization is beside the point. the entire point of the dei mentality is the victim-victimizer narrative. what it essentially politics is more victimized you are, the less successful you are. jews violate that narrative, so do asian spirit which is why they are constantly discriminated against. it comes from the idea that asians are not actual minorities who expands any sort of oppression in the u.s. because they are too successful. their scores on the sats are too good and it is perfectly well within bounds for universities to openly discriminate against them, not admit them to university sprayed the same happened with jews. the idea is all suffering of the past or in the present by jews is completely irrelevant, it breaks the matrix. the minute victimized group happens to be disproportionately economically and educationally successful, the entire worldview breaks down. the only way to avoid that is to relabel minority groups that are both victimized and successful as one. jews suddenly become members of the white superclass, and the

same thing happens to agents. agents suddenly become white adjacent. because god forbid the stupid and nefarious worldview of dei is somehow broken by reality pray that has to be -- relabeling people into categories that fit the worldview better. >> do you think there is a connection between dei bureaucracies on university campuses and what we saw in the aftermath of october 7? >> absolutely i think the dei bureaucracy on campus agrees with the basic worldview of those who are protesting otherwise they would not have allowed it. if it would have been nazis protesting on campus as opposed to the new nazis, it would have been a very different story had the administration dealt with it. >> why do you think university students are inspired by palestine against israel? september 2023, azerbaijan displaced over 100,000 armenians, mostly christians prayed i don't hear anybody at

yale talking about it, or the news talking about it. >> of course, the same is true in sudan and somalia per there is great suffering around the world. the reason this has become the tip of the left-wing spear is it is almost a perfect example of an event that ought to break the matrix prayed so you have to grip it that much harder. it is the idea in sociology, which is usually a -- field that have a couple of good points. you will have to find employment elsewhere, sorry sociology majors. there is an idea in sociology that basically many of the things we do in life are signaling that we have skin in the game. for example, i wear a yarmulke, it means i have skin in the jewish game. i go to synagogue regularly. we have these things to demonstrate we have skin in the game. if you want to demonstrate you have skin in the game of the victim-victimizer narrative, you pick the worst example of supposedly on the planet. then you declare they are the victims. take hamas, which is literally

the worst people you can declare a victim. they are fascist, the actual genocidal maniacs. they habitually engage in the murder of their political opponents, in masquerade, they celebrated the murder of children. they triumphantly livestreamed all of this. and they did while siphoning billions of dollars away from the palestinian people to build hundreds of kilometers of terror tunnels to hide from local civilians when israel had to go in, civilians would have to die for israel to clear the territory. these are not victims, they are just evil, the worst people in modern life. somehow, the best way to demonstrate skin in the game is to say they are actually the victims. if you can maintain that philosophy, you have skin in the game. have you demonstrated your perverse worldview if you can agree that somehow hamas are the victims in this situation. >> if 9/11 were to happen tomorrow in the u.s., how do you think the people in favor of hamas would react? >> pretty much the same way.

the movement would like to boycott the sanction in the u.s., that they have not found a way to live here five feet off of the ground floating in the air. the reality is when they take the position hamas is somehow the good guy, these are the people who declare osama bin laden was probably justified. isn't he just -- he wasn't. a goodhearted person who wishes the best for his children. no he isn't. what you get the idea is anybody who is attacking the west is doing so for good reason. because in the end, the west is bad. this is the lessons of october 7. despite the west's desperate attempt to go back to sleep, the reality is israel was attacked because it is perceived as a western country. it was specifically chosen because it is an element of the west.

it is not that radical muslims and members of hamas, the radical left, that they hate america because they hate israel. because israel -- they say it themselves. colonial outpost to the west, you are not hiding the ball. colonial outpost of the west, what do you think they think of the west directly? >> a phenomenon that came to yale in a significant way after the attack was media bias and censorship of what hamas actually did on the ground in israel. weeks after, it was well reported across the country, our campus removed papers with references to rape that occurred during the attack. can you talk about the media reaction to october 7 and what you have seen so far, how it has changed? >> the media are generally trashed, which is why i started my own media outlet. when it comes to the middle east, they are true garbage. i think it was michael pricing who suggested if you ever want to know how bad newspapers are,

read a newspaper on a topic you know really well. you will see the articles are filled with errors. the journalists and reporters don't know what they are talking about on a topic you know well. a math major, and they are writing about math, you can see 10 errors. the foreign policy page, you are like they probably know what they are talking about -- that is not true. much of the coverage has been widely skewed, incredible bias. the headlines are all determined to achieve some sort of moral equipment between israel and hamas. likely believing that israel-gaza war as if there at war with a place as opposed to an actual terror group that launched an assault on them. while azerbaijan has been providing hundreds of thousands of tons of human supplies into gaza in the middle of a war it is fighting. sacrificing its own soldiers in order to do that. it is also engaging most targeted military urban operation in human history right now. and somehow the media come up with an idea this is a

borderline genocidal action by israel. they are doing the same in lebanon. israel is delivering some of the most targeted strikes in the history of warfare. they did after that israeli beeper operation, the most targeted strike in the history of warfare. the media coverage is truly egregious, and it comes from a morally relativistic place that they have to maintain the idea that if israel is not the victimizer, they are kind of still the victimizer. even the aftermath of october 7. a week of synthetic media coverage and then it shifted back to the cycle of violence. if only we could come to a deal, if only we could craft some sort of a negotiation where everyone would go home happy. as opposed to the reality, there are fundamentally incompatible goals in the middle east. israel has this really troubling need to breathe and survive. and its enemies have -- apparently a wildly justifiable need to destroy it and kill every human in the region. >> in that case, do you keep there is any hope for truth? these people showing the horrors

of what hamas did on october 7, does it change their mind, or is it the same task? >> you have to take everyone on a one by one basis. some are open to the truth, some are not. fighting the dominance of legacy media, again, that is where we started a very large conservative media company to fight the narrative driven by the legacy media. >> a lot of people look at this conflict and have no idea what is going on, they don't know what to think or who to believe. what do you think is most purely at stake in this conflict going on right now? >> what is purely at stake is the definition of evil. the simple fact of the matter is hamas is a terrorist group that states its goals openly and outright. they are not hiding anything. they say they wish to destroy the state of israel, they invaded israel from a territory that had effectively been ceded to them when they were unilaterally accrued from the territories. they did not attack military

targets, they went into towns, including civilians from gaza who went into those towns to participate in the mass rape, murder, and kidnapping. what is at stake is whether the west even has the capacity to label evil evil at this point. i don't think the question is limited to the israel and palace and in conflict. the palestinian supporters of how authorities with hamas. the question is going forward whether the west has the strength to recognize when their actual threats to it, or whether they wish to simply pretend everyone has the same basic goals, and it is just a matter of pragmatic differences of how we reach that. >> what do you think the best way for people who may not have a connection to israel for them

to memorialize what happened what you would be? >> i think everyone has a stake in paying attention to the victims that are still ongoing -- i was with the family of a 20-year-old being held hostage. i was with his mom and dad and his younger brother today. actually with president trump over in queens. i had on my show just last week. who have a son who has been held hostage. multiple families who have kids who are still being held hostage. and understand unfortunately when it comes to the fight against hamas or hezbollah, or iran, their sponsor state, the only way out is through. war is ugly. no one wants -- particularly not the israelis. have been in constant war since 1947. every israeli at the age of 18 is drafted. that will include the religious.

everyone in the israeli military. everyone. if you think their parents want them to be serving on the front lines -- in line by the way, i don't just mean people now or 20 to anyone, i'm talking anyone in this crowd who is 40, 45, parents of three or four kids on the front line inside of lebanon. if you think that is what the israelis want, or out of your mind. that is not what they want. the only way to come to actual peace is not through empty headed diplomacy where people say funny words and violate their words five seconds later. victory is the only way you achieve peace. that is a historic lesson of war. victory and the threat of a crushing victory sways people from engaging in these attacks. that is not even me making that case. there is a book called the cause of war where every war from 1700 to 1988, he found the way you

achieve lasting peace in a time of war is for once i to actively defeat the other. which is something the west is very not used to. the west has decided victory is a dirty word. >> do you think the u.s. is doing enough to ensure the return of the hostages in the creating of lasting peace? >> hell no. i think the u.s. has -- under the biden-harris administration -- the biden-harris admin assertion, which started off the beginning of the war fairly well , immediately launched into a soft stance where the idea was if aid was slow walked to israel, it would facilitate peace negotiations. hamas understands they are militarily inferior. right now, no one -- one may be alive in a bunker surrounded by hostages. but it is not know he has serious military. the u.s. will be forced into

making some sort of concession to allow him and his group to survive. the u.s. could have done something very easy, they could have done this by the way in ukraine. they could have set our allies deserve our support in a time of war. they should be able to pursue the ends necessary to achieve victory. the u.s. should not be in the position of micromanaging the wars of our allies. a stupid idea in the first place. particularly when america's enemies are watching and see every act of weakness as another sign the u.s. is not willing to stand up for its allies in the region. the reality is october 7 would have never happened if the biden administration had not immediately started playing foot seas with the islamic republic of iran. if that never happened, october 7 would have never happened in the first place. the saudi's and israelis would have signed the a bram accord, you would see continuation of the budding peace in the middle east that was until recently the actual wave of the future over there. i think now that israel has reestablished its military, it turns in the region. >> one last question before i

hand it over to the audience. -- over 75 years ago. he criticized yale for promoting secularism and collectivism while undermining traditional values. it is hostile to the principles on which our institution was founded. do you think that critique is relevant to what happened at our universities after october 7? >> just a little. >> is there hope? >> there is hope for your institutions, but they will have to -- with money. employers will have to start looking at degrees from yale in determining they are worth the paper they are written on. i'm not singling out yale. my alma mater, harvard, is having similar experiences. it is true for most of these -- it is ok. i don't like them either. most of the major universities in this country at this point. employers are making a mistake that just because you have a degree from a top university

that it makes you qualified to hold a job. in many cases it makes you the reverse of that. >> thank you for our conversation. [applause] q and day, we are now moving into the q&a portion of the evening. if you have a question, come to the back of the auditorium and stand behind this yellow line and we will be able to get your questions. >> it does not have to be on this topic. it can be anything. i have a general rule, if you disagree, you can raise your hand and go to the front. don't just do it to go to the front. >> mr. shapiro, thank you for sharing your thoughts tonight. america, our country fought a protracted global war on terror

for two decades. as you mentioned today, we have ethical problems of war, political problems, opposition, support for it. but one day seems to lay sacred in our country, the day of remembrance on 9/11. whether you are for or against the war, that is a day where we remember thousands of civilians, firefighters, and police lost their lives. given that today is october 7, what do you think the ethical consequences are of politicizing today is a day of antiwar protests, and now to be a remembrance for people who lost their lives? >> frankie, i think we celebrate 9/11 wrong. the idea 9/11 ought to be a sad day in which we were member some people hide in a tower, as a congresswoman from minnesota

might say. i think that is a grave error. it should be a reminder of the enemies u.s. faced on 9/11 and continue to face today. we have forgotten those lessons which is why we are doomed to repeat similar instances. i don't believe act of terror are equivalent to death by national tragedy. it is one thing to hold a commemoration for a national tragedy. something horrible happens in life and we mourn it happening. i think when you are talking about an act of war, which is what 9/11 was, pearl harbor, october 7. the idea you can treat that in the same way as a day of remembrance for people who died from flu pandemic is wrongheaded and foolish. you cannot take away the lesson from october 7, 9/11, or any other day and remember in some of victims of terrorism. terrorism is evil, it should be fought. those who believe in the ideology need to be defeated. i think they are doing memorial wrong.

[applause] >> my name is zach, nice to meet you. as we stand here and talk today, they are holding a vigil to commemorate people who died on october 7. this event is counter programming that vigil. most organizations wrote letters asking to hold this event at a different time. -- tells us that you can serve god or yourself. you are being paid thousands of dollars to counter program a vigil for the victims of october 7. so my question for you is how are you not serving yourself with this event? >> since there are hundreds of people who showed up to hear me talk about what is going on, i don't think it is serving myself per se. i also don't think i need the money. my suggestion would be that there are many ways to commemorate what hne