and workplace organizing is crucial for a healthy democracy. organizing in general is, but particularly workplace organizing. there was a wonderful op-ed today in the star-ledger that i hope everyone will read. it outlines precisely why my opponent is terrible on labor. he's fought against osha safety requirements. he's fought against minimum wage. he's cut the retirement benefits to law enforcement and teachers when he was in the state senate. he fought against the proactive, a bipartisan bill chris mentz from new congressman kean has never had to work hard. he's never had a physical job. i don't know if he's had mud on his shoes. when i'm in congress, i will fight like i've always fought for working people, for the dignity of retirement and the strength of our labor sector because in states where there is no labor sector, you see

terrible things like what happened in north carolina where a c.e.o. forced his workers to go to work on the day of the storm and people died. i will always remember where i came from and fight for the working class. joey: ms. altman, do you think there is any imbalance of power that needs to be corrected? do you think unions have too much ability to make major things like strikes that impact supply chains happen? ms. altman: i was delighted the strike ended when it did because that's the power of collective bargaining where you flex muscle and negotiate terms. if anything, the billionaires control too much capital in our society. people like elon musk are funding my opponent's campaign to the tune of half a million dollars so far and counting. from my standpoint, the working person needs a champion in congress and that person will be me. we need to fight hard for

working people. laura: tom kean? rep. kean: we need to ensure -- i support collective bargaining and i support a living wage and have long supported those positions and i support unions. the carpenters support me, the iron workers support me. police and firefighters support me because they know that i have their backs, that i will make sure they have the opportunities to grow and focus and ensure that they have a seat at the table because that's what i have done not only in the state legislature but now in congress. my opponent has an extreme position. she would never reach across the aisle to find common ground on policies so we can find -- the issues that find the common ground. the port strike was solved because people who have known each other for a number of years came together to find that solution. i support the solution.

i think it should be implemented as it was done and negotiated and we need to make sure that while we continue to do that, we also need to have more manufacturing and more opportunities in this district and in this country. joey: congressman, i want to ask you about the union support. you have been endorsed by some unions but in an objective sense the democratic controlled congress is more likely to pass pro union legislation than a republican controlled congress so why should someone vote for you rather than someone who will give democrats control of congress? rep. kean: people who have worked with me over the course of my tenure in congress and before that in the legislature know i reach across the aisle to find the common ground, find the solution, to make sure we respect prevailing wage and make sure that the people and also along the the apprenticeship

programs and make sure people are graduating from high school, college and career ready, that they can go to an apprenticeship program and go to a college and make sure programs are there and we need to do it at a time and pace that are more affordable. my component supports spending and tax increases that would make it unaffordable to locate innovative jobs in this country. we're going to do things that are necessary to build the future of this country and future of new jersey. new jersey cannot afford sue altman's extreme positions at overspending. laura: sue altman? ms. altman: the machine panelist, ifpte, the electrical workers, healthcare workers, nurses -- we have gotten a plethora, a plethora of labor support and i am proud to be their champion in congress.

project 2025, which is the playbook for what the next administration republican agenda is going to look like specifically wants to outlaw collective bargaining and the formation of labor unions and leave that up to the state which for me is a euphemism for taking away rights. i know this is a district that believes in the dignity of the working person and as a representative of this district, i will fight to make sure that all people who work hard every day will get a dignified retirement, will get important benefits like healthcare, and you, congressman, have voted against those things at every turn. you've voted to cut the pensions, you've voted to cut retirement benefits, for cost of living for teachers and law enforcement. you are a fair weather friend of labor and there are many republicans who are stronger on labor than you are. laura: would you like 30 seconds to respond? rep. kean: in the interest of

people who are literally building our economy and protecting our communities are bipartisan concerns. there aren't republican and democratic approaches. there are people who can find common ground like i have. when you look at the carpenters and other members of the build trades supporting me, the police officers know that to a person they support me. when you look at the firefighters, they support me because they know i have their back and we will find solutions as i did in the past year when joe biden signed my bill into law to push it across the finish line to protect firefighters. that's what we need to do, whether republican or democrat alike. ms. altman: and congressman, sign on to the -- sorry. joey: ms. altman, the new jersey minimum wage hit $15.13 this year but the federal minimum wage is $7.25. do you support raising minimum wage and how high should it be?

ms. altman: absolutely. we need to tie it to cost of living. minimum wage is one of the best ways to to make sure that our workers have the bare minimum to sustain themselves but it's barely enough. if you're making $15 an hour, you might have to work two or three jobs to give in the seventh district so we have to be very mindful about the fact that the minimum wage only gets us so far. we need to support healthcare and things like dental and vision. we want to make sure that we're supporting things like paid family sick time. the minimum wage is only the tip of the iceberg but is absolutely vital and we should absolutely 100% pass a federal minimum wage law and if my opponent was so pro worker, he would rush out the door to sign on to that bill so i'm confused how he can claim to be pro worker and against minimum wage. rep. kean: i think this is an issue best handled at the state

level. we need to get the regulations and taxes than they are right now. right now new jersey is unaffordable because of the policy that my opponent supported and we have to make sure we have the jobs that are necessary and make sure that people can continue to seek and gain employment. the most important thing we can do in this regard is ensure that we lower the costs. my opponent vote supports every spending increase over the course of the last 2 1/2 years that caused the most dramatic increase in inflation in the last couple of decades. she supports the policies that make it unaffordable for people to open small businesses. she supports policies and regulation that make it too expensive to operate too many local and small businesses in the state. we need to make sure we get those regulations on the state and federal level. joey: i'd like to ask a brief follow-up, a number from each of you. what do you think is a

reasonable federal minimum wage to have? ms. altman? ms. altman: i would like to see it in line with new jersey, $15 minimum wage. there's no chance to elon musk to pass half a million dollars into the campaign of somebody who is pro worker. joey: congressman kean? rep. kean: i think it's handled on a state-by-state basis. joey: you think $7.35 is a good place to leave it? rep. kean: i think the local economies know the issues important to them and having the policies to reflect that and understanding that we need to create new jobs for families, as well, and lower the costs. because right now all the federal spending is making this state far more unaffordable and we need to make sure we're competing against people who -- we need to be. laura: we're going to move on to micah rasmussen and your next

round of questions. micah: americans largely wind up with the policy options put forth by political parties. what are the ideas you see championed by either party that you think ought to be part of the solution on immigration and the border? would it be more effective to move troops currently stationed overseas to the u.s.-mexico border or shutter the border if illegal crossings reach a threshold or are there different policy options you'd prefer to be part of the solution? ms. altman: as you know, i've never stayed within the bounds of what political parties were offering. when i was in trenton, i worked hard to do things no one thought possible like abolish the lines but i will move with your premise for the sake of conversation. on the issue of immigration, we need to increase border security, we need to invest security at the border and i do think the border has been a little bit of a mess but we had a bill that passed through the

senate that took big steps forward that would have done a step towards comprehensive immigration reform which has been something that politicians from the time i was in middle school have been talking about. and yet what happened was that bill which would have possibly passed the house, mike johnson put the kibosh on it because donald trump told him to. what's so frightening about a next mike johnson speakership is that nothing got done in washington. we had the most ineffective congress in history and dare i say, the least effective congressman. when i'm in congress i will work across the aisle to fix the border. laura: tom kean? rep. kean: i believe for the most comprehensive border security bill that ever passed the house of representatives, it passed on a bipartisan basis and we need to make sure we put become in tower 42, we need to go forward, daca is something we

also need to look at as a promise that needs to be kept but at the end of the day, there was no bill that passed the senate. my opponent is lying about that but -- and the bill she would have supported, she says, would have increased the number of legal detentions because it would have on a daily basis would have set a number of illegal border crossings that were ok before border control stepped in. that's an extreme position. even kamala harris and joe biden have backed away from that position with the current new proposal. we need to build the wall, we need more border patrol agents, we need to make sure we have adjudication that is right but -- a nation of immigrants is also a nation of laws. laura: 30 seconds, sue altman? ms. altman: i'm surprised that you said build the wall, that's pretty incredible. donald trump wanted to run on

immigration. he wants to fan the flames of xenophobia, of nationalism, a cheap knockoff of patriotism. in our last town hall we had a conversation between a woman nervous about the influx of immigrants and someone who wanted to make sure that her son, a disabled boy, would have the support of a home health aid who was an immigrant and the two of them found common ground. i know there is common ground in this country and without donald trump and his cronies fanning the fans of hatred, we can solve the problem and i look forward to being part of the solution. laura: micah rasmussen? micah: u.s. border patrol data show 56,000 monthly migrant encounters at the u.s.-mexico border in august compared to 75,000 encounters in president trump's final month in august. can we grew these -- agree these

are accurate snapshots of the border situation at two points in time and what do they tell us about the political situation at the border? rep. kean: in the last 3 1/2 years there were only 10 million illegal unvetted migrants left in this country because of a porous southern border. think about the consequences -- fentanyl crossed the border that infected our communities. it meant child trafficking, drug trafficking -- all of those are consequences of an unsecured southern and northern border. those are things my opponent never stood against. she supports a weak southern border and northern border. we need to know who's coming to this country and what their intents are. it's who we are to make sure we have that strength. my opponent also would not look

to steepen border patrol or give the resources necessary to make sure the community is safe. ms. altman: that's just inaccurate. i agree we need to have a handle on who's coming in the country and we need to keep the community safe. this is a misrepresentation. donald trump's rallies are off the rails. he's talking about importing immigrants forcibly using the army and military and executive order. that is a dark, scary thing. i'm afraid that if you're in congress, you're not going to stand up to the twisted, toxic vision of america that donald trump has because you have not stood up to your own party since you've been in washington. this whole, i want to leave it to the states thing, is such a cop-out to avoid accountability and not having town hall is another way to avoid

accountability, not talking to the press, another way to avoid accountability. americans, new jerseans, people in this district are sick and tired of trying to pin jello to the wall with you, congressman. laura: tom kean, would you like to respond? rep. kean: when you look at border encounters, joe biden has changed his policy over the course of the last couple of months because of the consequences of an unenforced southern border were so extreme and you look at the drugs on the streets and stolen cars and home invasions, as well, those are all consequences of an unsecure southern border that has made this country less safe and my opponent wants to go further to the extreme to allow more people into the country who are unvetted and illegal migrants. ms. altman: that's just not true, congressman. laura: micah? micah: donald trump is promising mass deportations on day one of his presidency. these would inevitably be

softly -- costly, as much as a trillion dollars over 10 years, and a large reduction in the g.d.p. of more than 4% due to the loss of workers and industries that can't find enough labor in addition to humanitarian costs. will you support mass deportations in congress, mr. kean, and how should we cover these costs and what will not get done so that mass deportations can be prioritized? rep. kean: over the course in the last 3 1/2 years, 10 million undocumented and unvetted individuals -- and these are individuals that come from a host of countries. in fact, 60% of this problem would be solved if they remain in mexico policy were back in place, able to have individuals stop in the country where they first arrive. there are people from 194 countries that have come in through an unsecure southern border and the northern border and we need to make sure that those individuals who are criminals and have -- should be

deported. that's where you need to start. my opponent has an extreme position in this regard. she supports -- joe biden right now on the policy of the border. she supports illegal unvetted people coming across unchecked. that is clear, she said here tonight. we need to be sure we have people who are leaders to find common ground, secure the southern border, make communities safe. ms. altman: you just dodged the question. mr. rasmussen asked you a specific question, would you support supporting migrants? yes or no? laura: we're going to let you finish your statement and we can go back to tom kean for a 30-second rebuttal. sue altman, we'll let you finish

35 seconds. ms. altman: i know how the reporters feel. i obviously do not support deporting migrants. that's the end of my answer. laura: mr. kean, would you like to respond? rep. kean: as i said in my first minute, when we started to look at the people who have committed crimes here illegally, that's where we should start, look at the people who are here illegally and have a criminal record. laura: david wildstein, we go back to you and your next set of questions. david: there's so many questions to ask and we're a little behind. what i'd like to do is this. in this next round, i'm going to read a series of statements and ask that you simply respond with your agreement or disagreement with a thumbs-up or thumbs-down. you'll both be on the camera at the same time. if you want to amplify your views, you can use both hands if you want.

it allows us to move through some things quickly, hopefully, and we'll give you each 60 seconds at the end to address anything that you'd like to. let's put both candidates up together and i'll start with this. thumbs-up if you agree, thumbs-down if you degree. joe biden was the fair and legitimate winner of the 2020 presidential election? congress should consider a constitutional amendment to eliminate the electoral college? laura: thumbs-up, thumbs-down? david: ok. climate change is real and it's a threat to america's future. israel is committing genocide and the u.s. must stop

supporting the war with hamas. casting your ballot by mail is safe and it's secure. we're getting some agreement in this round. congress should consider granting some form of reparations to black americans as part of a national apology for the practice of slavery. agree or disagree -- i will vote to fund a strong national defense including nuclear weapons to ensure that the united states maintains a military advantage over the nations. social media is a threat to the mental health of children and to americans of all ages. phil murphy has been a great governor for new jersey.

i'm looking forward to another four years of donald trump in the white house. my party has done everything possible to help me win this election. there are people currently serving in the u.s. house of representatives who are worse human beings than my opponent. there is extraterrestrial life on a planet beyond earth. i will unconditionally agree to vote to certify the results in the 2024 election regardless of whether my preferred candidate wrins -- wins.

ms. altman, 60 seconds on that round of questions if you'd like to comment. ms. altman: i want to talk about the rep reparations thing. new jersey remains a segregated state and i think it's important to study the ways in which we can stop segregation and stop the perpetuity of poverty in this country so while i don't believe in reparations, we need to understand how not to repeat history and how to break the cycle of poverty in this country including poverty across all races, from white folks to black folks aneryonexeen. we need to understand why poverty seems to be generational and what we can do to break it. for every child born in poverty, they have a lower quality of life and worse outcomes and to say nothing of the humanitarian

issues, it's a tragic loss of human potential. david: congressman? rep. kean: my opponent supports getting rid of the electoral college. she wants to change the constitution set up by the framers so that everybody across the country has a voice. she also has an extreme position in terms of expanding the supreme court. we need to send people down to washington, d.c. that are supported by republicans and democrats alike like i was last cycle who can find that common ground and make sure we have the solutions that are necessary and make sure that we have trust and make sure we can make the right decisions on behalf of our constituents. laura: ms. altman, would you like 30 seconds to respond? ms. altman: no. laura: very good. we all agree we're going to take

a very quick commercial break. stay with us as we continue debate night here in new jersey's race for the seventh congressional district between the incumbent tom kean and challenger sue altman. the candidates will remain on camera during the break. thanks for staying with us. this is the first and only debate in new jersey's seventh congressional district between the incumbent, congressman tom kean jr., an incumbent, and challenger sue altman. we're going to let the candidates ask a question of each other. first tom kean to sue altman and then sue altman to tom kean. each have two minutes to respond. first to you, tom kean. rep. kean: thank you. it's important, growing up as a new jersean, to protect our environment. we need to make sure we have clean air, clean water, clean soil.

in fact, i met my wife, rhonda, a little over 30 years ago, when we were both working for the e.p.a. and making sure we have responsible environmental protections while also making sure we grow the economy is important for future generations of this country. my question for you, sue, is you've changed your position on so many issues over the course of the last couple of months during this campaign. do you still support a.o.c.'s green new deal? ms. altman: i support components of it. i think it's very important that we transition to a clean economy. i think a lot of what was in the original green new deal was enveloped in the the last big budget deal passed through congress. there's not a lot radical about investing in public transportation, about starting to grow our green economy, about keeping our clean air and water safe for future generations.

congressman, as you know, project 2025 wants to get rid of the department of environmental protection so that super fund sites like the one i grew up near would never get cleaned up, areas in new jersey, this beautiful part of the state that is a complete -- an area of beautiful rivers and lakes, would be under attack from pollutants. people once said that in new jersey we could never clean up our state because it would hurt the economy but we have been able to. we have cleaner air than ever before, cleaner water. we've protected the highland watershed and we need to continue to grow a green economy. i know we can do it. i believe in us. if it wasn't for partisan bickering and the incompetence and nastiness, devifsness, of our current congress and presidential nominee on the republican side, i know we could build a clean economy.

there is nothing raddical about saving acreage for development, nothing radical about building up flood protections to make sure towns are protected, there's nothing radical about making sure there's a one seat ride from every town in this district. when you were in politics, you supported chris christie who gutted the arc tunnel and all of the time commuters have wasted waiting for trains would have been salvaged so there is nothing radical about a sustainable solution and that doesn't mean the green new deal but it means stop the bickering and partisanship which stops aspects of the deal. laura: sue altman, you may ask tom kean a question. ms. altman: congressman, i'm

glad we did this. if you want to do another one, i'm always game. while you were in congress -- while you were in the state senate, you voted against gay marriage. while you were in the state senate, you voted down the minimum wage bill, you voted to slash the retirement benefits of law enforcement and teachers and just a few weeks ago, the day he was convicted of felonies, you endorsed donald trump. congressman, do you regret any of these things, any of these decisions you made? or do you stand by them tonight? and, i forgot one more -- you voted against planned parenthood and the codification of roe in new jersey. tell me, congressman, of all that i've listed, do you regret any of them? rep. kean: as you know, i, like many people, when that vote was cast 2012, 2013, have changed their mind on marriage equality.

i support marriage equality and voted for it, state senate, as well. the most important thing we can do is send leaders down to washington, d.c. who can actually find the common ground and understand what is important in people's lives. my opponent has an extreme position. she is not a person who will work across the aisle to find common ground and will always be on the extreme progressive wing of her own party. the reason firefighters are supporting me is i can work to find the common ground. the reason every police union in this race has en endorsed me because they understand the dangerous policies that would make streets less safe if sue altman's policies were prosecuted. we also know that the building trades, people working hard to grow this economy and build this economy, are supporting me because they know sue altman is extreme in her policies. i ran for