>> buckeye broadband supports c-span as a public service along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> coming up on washington journal this morning, your calls and comments live. and then we will talk about the 2024 election results including former president trump winning reelection with rich lowry, editor in chief of the national review. and katrina vanden heuvel. c-span's washington journal is. join the conversation. ♪ >> good morning, it is sunday, november 10, 2024. resident elect donald trump has won the state of arizona, solidifying his electoral college lead with 312 votes.

president biden is promising a peaceful transfer of power and is scheduled to meet with the president elect in the oval on wednesday. it is unclear what will happen with former president trump's many outstanding legal cases and some are suggesting president biden should pardon him. we want to hear your perspective, should biden pardon trump? democrats can call in at (202) 748-8000. republicans at (202) 748-8001. independents can reach us at (202) 748-8002. if you would like to text us, that number is (202) 748-8003. please be sure to include your name and where you are writing in from. if you want to contact us on facebook, it is facebook.com/c-span. one of those calling for president to pardon -- president

biden to pardon doesn't elect donald trump comes from the national view. biden should pardon trump by mark antonio, this was written the day after the election that biden should invite trump to the oval office for the judicial visit. he then goes on to say biden should then move his constitutional authority to pardon donald trump of all pending federal charges and relieve special counsel smith of his duties. he should then ask kathy hochul to pardon trump of the crimes he was convicted of in new york state. a bit more from that article. why is there not a majority of the public chose to -- like it or not, a majority of the public chose reelect donald rate he deserves to enter 25 with the slate wiped clean of the previous era. no good at all will come from a

presidt lfilling his constitutional duties at home and abroad under the cloud of criminal procution. no good whatsoever will come of trump himself ordering the juste department to drop the s or by crossing a rubicon in american lives of self pardon joe biden has not such time in office acting like a statement. but a pardonf nald trump would be statesmanlike and such act would go a long way toward ending the cycle ola fair that, if left unchecked, would cause more harm and damage to politics. the white house press secretary was asked on thursday about potential pardons in the last days of the administration, including pardons for not trump but hunter biden. >> is the president considering

pardoning officials or people that trump has threatened with legal action. >> i don't have anything to share on the thought process on pardons. when we have something to share, we will show that. >> does the president have any intention of pardoning him? >> we have been asked that question multiple times, our answer stands which is no. host: a bit more on the article from the national review calling r president biden to par former president trump. gerald ford's pardoning nixon is the pres it was politically unpopular at it was the right thing to do.t

ford's pardon put a bandage on a festering national w. donald trump should accept such a pardon if offered by joe biden. trump should then find a way to, at least rhetorically, extend an olive branch to the outgoing resident. here is a portion of president ford's speech to the nation in september of 1974, on his decision to pardon his predecessor, richard nixon. >> i deeply believe in equal justice for all americans. the law, whether human or divine, is no respecter of persons. the law is a respecter of reality. the facts as i see them are that a former president of the united states, instead of enjoying

equal treatment with any other citizen accused of violating the law would be cruelly and excessively penalized, either in preserving the presumption of his innocence or in obtaining a speedy determination of his guilt. in order to repay a legal debt to society. ugly passions would again be aroused. and our people would again be polarized in their opinions. and the credibility of our free institutions of government would again be challenged at home and abroad. in the end, the cards might well hold that richard nixon has been denied due process and the verdict of history would even more be inconclusive with

respect to those charges arising out of the period of his presidency of which i am presently aware. but, it is not the ultimate fate of richard nixon that most concerns rate. though surely it deeply troubles every decent and every compassionate person. my concern is the immediate future of this great country. host: now to your comments on whether or not biden should pardon trump. on facebook, matthew crawley says agreed, it's the will of the people and it is a smart move politically for democrats. the more they prosecute trump, the more support he gets. and then magic maga says what crimes did he do again that he needs a pardon for? the way i see it, the democrats

need a pardon for falsifying charges against him. vincent in gaithersburg, maryland, on the line for republicans. good morning, vincent. caller: good morning. it's getting more difficult for me to watch and observe c-span. you folks and cnn, abc, cbs, etc., first of all, you don't go straight to the point. host: do you have any idea whether or not biden should pardon trump? caller: biden doesn't need to pardon trump because trump's cases have already been thrown out. and they held these cases -- they charged him two years ago with these bogus cases. and they have been thrown out. host: what about his felony convictions, do you think biden should pardon him for those? caller: when i say cases, i'm talking about the felonies that have been thrown out along with

the rogue attorney, jack smith. host: i don't think that is accurate. let's go to mike in montana on our line for independents. good morning, mike. caller: good morning. biden can pardon trump and then trump can pardon biden. it's ridiculous. trump didn't do anything wrong. he is probably one of the most perfect presidents we have ever had. that wouldn't be justice. justice would be to not pardon but to prosecute people like the cuomo brothers, adam schiff, and

then i want to get back -- for real justice -- let's get back all of the stimulus money that was printed. if we can print as much money as we want, why we need the irs? it's ridiculous. let's clawback all these insider-trading firm nancy pelosi's -- from nancy pelosi's squeaky clean group. host: i want to hear a couple more folks perspective on whether or not biden should pardon trump. let's hear from tyrone in new york on our line for democrats. do you think biden should pardon trump? tyrone, are you there? caller: yes, i'm here. hello? no, he shouldn't. they should not pardon him, mainly because the democratic party needs to grow a spine. you have had five instances where these people are saying it

doesn't matter if he gives them a pardon. some of these people want to see us grind to dust. they don't want us to exist. with this mindset, you want to pardon this guy, the same guy who has the type of ideology where they want to get rid of the democratic party. they don't want us to exist. if he pardons him, it's not going to settle anything. it's only going to embolden these people to do worse. host: let's hear from rob in michigan. on our line for independents. good morning. caller: on the subject at hand, biden should issue a pardon. it establishes three things. it becomes biden's legacy, he won't be remembered for anything else.

he will be the man that said let's bring the country back together and let's start healing. the second thing it accomplishes , trump remains a felon, a convicted felon who received a pardon. they can no longer challenge his convictions. the third thing, the argument is that -- having selected a candidate, her own party rejected with zero votes when she ran in the primary in 2020. it's a way for him to put a parting jab at the dnc. host: what about the state level prosecutions going on in new york and georgia? what do you think should happen there? caller: i think they should utilize -- he should utilize

whatever political power he has and say let's quash this. let's get back to the business of running the country and stop the banana republic faith of prosecutions. host: carol is in missouri on our line for republicans. what do you think, carol? should biden pardon trump? caller: i think that he should because the democrats are the one that caused all the troubles, putting him there in the first place. have they ever looked at each case to see exactly what he's done? they have made up stuff. they have charged him with stuff that the democrats have done. the democrats are going crazy. they set off -- said all kinds of stuff. the democrats have not gone for anything. but trump just opens his mouth can because he's so successful

and because he changed the country, obama said he was going to change the country. and he sure did. host: what do you think would be the reaction if biden pardons trump? caller: well, what do you think the reaction would be? host: from the country. caller: i just think that it would be good for biden to do it. the only thing they've talked about is kill. you can watch every show on fox, cnn and biden those on about kill. they have done nothing but try to destroy him. that's exactly what they've done. host: let's go to aomment that we receive via text from kristin in portland, maine. it seems apparent that trump is going to get away with

everything concerning his involvement on january 6, and stealingect documents anyway. doing pardon would mean that donald trump is acknowledging wrongdoing. i'm not sure he would accept a pardon. let's hear from jane in louisiana on our line for democrats. good morning. caller: hello. host: do you think biden should pardon trump? caller: absolutely not. host: why not? caller: particularly the documents situation at mar-a-lago, it is very possible that he had tried to endanger our security by trying to sell these things. we will never know exactly what the special prosecutor knows, if he gets pardon. the georgia case with election interference is a singular case

that needs to be at least prosecuted in court. it's the nastiest form of manipulation. republicans know how to manipulate. the frog report cases have already been judged guilty as has the sexual assault. host: i want to read more from the national review article calling on president biden to pardon president elect. ncor will not be part of ourisan lives the coming weeks, months and years.

serves a fresh start and a gracious and honorable approach to a peaceful transfer of power. trump did not give his predecessor that courtesy the last time around. that is no reason that biden ought not rise above revenge to the level of statesmen. politico says say goodbye to trump's legal cases. the criminal candidate will now effectively be his own judge and jury. donald trump did not just beat kamala harris, he beat the system that tried to put him in jail. he was already the first former president to ever be charged and convicted of felonies. now he has become the first convicted felon to ever win a presidential election. his victory guarantees he will never face serious legal accountability for an avalanche of alleged wrongdoing. trump's imminent return to the white house shattered years of work by special counsel jack smith to convict trump for his

attempt to divert the 2020 election and for the stockpile of classified documents he kept at his florida estate. it halts the prosecution he is facing in georgia for his 2020 election plot as well. it almost certainly allows trump to postpone any sentence on his conviction for covering up hush money in 2016. -- he might have faced without the legal force built of the oval office. let's get back to your calls. robert is in chesterfield, virginia on our line for independents. good morning. caller: good morning. it would be another big mistake that biden would make pardon him. biden made a big mistake keeping the borders open, that's why they lost the election. another reason they lost, i can't believe the people who bought into that stuff would

just suck it in. what biden should do, he has the power to do it. charge him with treason because that is what he committed. put him up against the wall and execute him. host: ok, we will not talk about executions here. ray is on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i don't expect it to happen but i think it would be a wonderful thing if it happened. i think there would be some outrage on both sides. you can also pardon hunter at the same time. i think in the long run, it would bring the country more together. i remember as a kid when gerald ford pardoned nixon, it was almost seen as -- it is almost seen as universally the right thing to do. we seem to be at each other's

throats and i think that is a terrible thing and people don't get along anymore. i think this would go a long way to help the healing of the country. host: ron is in alton, illinois on our line for immigrants. good morning. -- democrats. good morning. caller: know, i don't think he should pardon him. he should be held accountable for all of his deeds. democrats are too nice. they play too nice for politics. do you think trump would pardon him? no, he would not. trump lied about the people in springfield, ohio. was he held accountable for that lie? no. he gets a chance to walk away, he gets a mulligan, he gets a chance to walk away from everything that he does. no, do not pardon him. pardon hunter. that's what i would do.

host: parker is in jeffersonville, indiana on the line for independents. good morning, barbara. caller: i think biden should not pardon trump. trump did those crimes and needs to do his time. what makes him think he is more special, he is a former president and was convicted of those crimes. they need to be held a combo for what they have done. they ruined my life. they can make fun of me, they can call me names. they are disgusting pigs. host: michael is in ashburn, virginia on the line for republicans. good morning, michael. caller: good morning. i think that biden will pardon

trump. it's the outcome that i would prefer. -- it's not the outcome that i would prefer. i would prefer he goes back to court and is completely exonerated. someone brings a lawsuit against you, you have to decide if it is worth it for the insurance company to go to court or if they just settle. most people when you look at a lawsuit, it swings guilt back to them. i would prefer if you went back to court, went through the process again and had the charges completely overturned. host: michael, there are quite a few cases. there are the special counsel cases regarding interference in the 2020 election as well as the documents cases and the new york cases on the hush money trial as well as fraud and then there is

the georgia case. what do you think it would mean for former president elect trump to actually go back through all of those cases? caller: i think it's the right thing to do. i really think it is the right thing to do. i don't think it's going to happen because i think trump, i believe biden is going to pardon him because he wants to validate all of these charges. like i said, settle. everything will be settled and nobody is ever really going to know what happened. i think it should always go through the process. because i think a lot of people see now that people don't really trust in the justice system anymore and that's the problem. host: don is in ground block, michigan -- grand blanc,

michigan. caller: good morning to c-span and america. that election broke my heart, seeing that the country put trump back in office. host: do you think that biden should pardon trump? caller: that's a hard question. at this point, we know trump is above the law. pardoning him makes no difference, he will pardon himself. can biden pardon a criminal in a state case? or can he only pardon him for federal cases? host: he could only pardon him for federal cases. but the national review article called for president biden to then direct the states like new

york governor kathy hochul to perhaps pardon him as well in some of those state charges. caller: the republicans always say states rights. biden feels that -- if biden feels that criminal deserves a pardon, give him a pardon. right now, i think the country is doomed for the next four years. host: last week, minnesota governor tim walls, who was running with harris as the vice presidential candidate, talked about a path forward and finding common ground with people that disagreed with him after he and vice president harris lost the presidential election. >> i will say and acknowledge this. about 1.5 million of our fellow minnesotans voted for the other side this election. and while there might not be a

place in our state for the most extreme elements of that agenda, there should be a place in our politics for everyone to be heard. [applause] i think sometimes we can be quick to judge people who don't agree with us. to assume they act of cruelty or fear or self-interest. i don't think that kind of judgment is helpful right now. and i don't think it is right. i think we ought to swallow, and this is me talking about myself, swallow a little bit of pride and try harder to find common ground with our neighbors who did not vote like we did this election. maybe we won't agree on every issue. maybe we won't agree on any issue. maybe when the campaign signs come down, we all get a little break from the rhetoric and the tv ads and the fundraising tax, i'm sorry about those. [laughter] maybe when we get a little break from this campaign that we are in, we will be able to look at each other and see not enemies

but neighbors. and maybe we will be able to sit down over coffee or a diet mountain dew and just talk. talk about our kids, talk about the lives we want to build for them. talk about the things that really matter. how we treat each other. how we look out for each other. and how we support each other in difficult times. for my part, i'm going to try even harder to do that as governor. nobody, not the dflers, not republicans, nobody has a monopoly on good intentions are good ideas. and now that this election is behind us, i will try harder to keep an open mind, open heart and listen to folks who don't support me or my policies. to work with everyone in the legislature to see compromise and common ground. that's how we come back together. after such a long time spent fighting each other. host: back to your calls. penelope is in indiana on our line for democrats. good morning, penelope.

melvin, go ahead. -- penelope, go ahead. caller: i put in the wrong number, i'm trying to change it. i'm waiting to put the number back up here. host: ok. debbie is in rochester, new york on our line for independents, good morning. caller: good morning. i think that trump should go straight to jail. i can't believe all of these people that are saying that joe biden should pardon trump. pardon him for what? he needs to go to jail. and all of these stupid people, it is really, really the shock of my life to hear these people think that that man is acceptable to be the president of the united states! what the hell is wrong with people? host: john is in california on

our line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning, how are you doing? host: fine. caller: i don't think biden should pardon trump at all. but the fact is trump didn't do anything wrong. if you people think paying somebody to keep their mouth shut for having sex with them is against the law, you are low information people. you should look at the law. host: ok. the new york post article about that case in particular with the headline, judge in trump's hush money trial considers tossing island the after election win. the manhattan judge who oversaw donald trump's oshman a criminal trial is expect it to announce next week, that would be this week, if the president elects historic felony conviction will stand.

sentencing has been delayed by more than four months to come after the election and gave himself until next tuesday to decide if the conviction should be tossed. trump's overwhelming election win will further embolden his legal team to make sure sentencing never happens. that sentencing -- eve is on the line for democrats. good morning, e. -- eve. caller: good morning. i think h to the e double hockey sticks for trump. trump should be under the jail. he should not be president. who are these people who say that he should be pardoned? for what? some people go into the store and pick up something and they get put in jail. this man has done everything.

i would never forgive the fact that he said the saudi's gave him a lot of money and he did not care about jamaal khashoggi being chopped up and put in a suitcase. i say please, get a life. host: michael in linden, virginia, sent us a text message. it is a risk f the president to pardon the president elect. i imagine thident elect rejecting the pardon and blaming the prosecution on the president and the democratic political party, fueling the flames. or the pardon could be accepted with a band-aid. another text message, we already read that one. let's hear from david in west virginia on our line for independents. good morning, david. caller: good morning. president trump does not need a pardon. the american people, the majority of them have already pardon him. it's called an election, it's called a landslide election.

he won the popular vote and he won the electoral college. let it play out in court and congress needs to have a special prosecutor look into the warfare, the legal warfare that he did to trump. if biden wanted harris to be president, he could make her president today. he could resign and she would be the 47th president. trump would be the 48th president. she would serve two months approximately. the ninth president only served 30 days. have a nice day. host: mark is in ohio on our line for republicans. good morning. caller: probably for the good of the country, he probably should pardon trump. but personally, i hope he doesn't because i believe that all of these cases that were

brought against him were political. that's pretty much what i have to say about that. host: david is in san francisco on the line for independents. good morning. caller: i am impressed by a couple of the callers. i was going to remind, pardons are an omission of guilt. -- admission of guilt. that is in the legal sense. a pardon comes after somebody begs forgiveness. has trump admitted that he is guilty in order to deserve a pardon or has trump begged our forgiveness? i think it is clear that trump is nuts and over the wall. as to vance, you room berhow -- remember how trump ran to

florida and became a citizen of florida with felonies? the state of florida allowed him to vote. i would say that if trump -- if biden had his guts about him or congress had their guts about them, every delegate from florida from the electoral vote, they committed fraud by allowing his boat into the pool. -- vote into the pool. host: cheryl is in florida on the line for democrats. caller: i don't think he should be pardoned. it's horrible what our country has come to. he will put more criminals in the white house. thank you for your time. host: stephanie is in irving, texas on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: hi.

i don't think biden has a shred of decency as the pardon president trump. but he should. he started all of those false allegations and false lawsuits. so, he should. but i don't think he has a shred of these and see to do it. thank you. -- of decency to do it. thank you. host: one of the outstanding cases is in new york. it could determine whether trump pays $500 million in civil judgments as president. this is a story from the washington examiner. president elect donald trump is expected to be relieved from his criminal prosecution as he makes his return to the oval office pending appeals in similar cases might be his only hope to break free from more than a half $1 billion in civil judgments against him. trump is poised to owe more than $500 million in penalties due to new york's democratic attorney general alyssa james's civil

fraud case and two civil lawsuits brought by e. jean carroll. james made general comments about trump's election victory on wednesday. let's listen to some of those comments. >> i congratulate the president elect, donald trump. and if possible, we will work with his administration. but we will not compromise our values. or our integrity. or our principles. we did not expect this result. but we are prepared to respond to this result. my office has been preparing for several months, because we've been here before. we have faced this challenge before. and we used the rule of law to fight back.

and we are prepared to fight back once again. because, as the attorney general of this great state, it is my job to protect and defend the rights of new yorkers and the rule of law. and i will not shrink from that responsibility. host: one of the comments we have received on x, i know i will lose respect for the law and this country if he gets a pass. our question this hour, should biden pardon president elect trump? you can also reach us if you want to text us on (202) 748-8003. our line for democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. let's hear from darlene in

louisiana on our line for independents. caller: definitely know. he is a player and he played the american people. he is just a player. definitely a no. like the man said, we need to grow a spine. and a definite no on that you crazy sickos. host: what do you think it would do to the country if he enters office with these charges over his head and the convictions? caller: i don't care because he ruined the country anyway. it's already unlawful. he has cruelty following him and what he did for january 6, he got all of those people to do the dirty work for him. that's what he did. host: let's hear from bobby in mayfield, kentucky on our line

for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning. host: do you think biden should pardon trump? caller: yes i do. yes, i do. i watched on national tv, the capitol police opened the doors and let those people in. we don't know if they were republicans or democrats. we don't actually know. host: a couple of folks have mentioned the january 6 descendants. the new york times reports some of them are already angling for pardons from trump. he said he would grant clemency to some of those who took part in the assault on the u.s. capitol nearly four years ago. the consequences of donald trump's victory start with the likelihood that the cases against him will sputter out but can also extend to the cases of

the hundreds of supporters who are being or have been prosecuted for storming the u.s. capitol on january 6, 20 31. mr. trump repeatedly promised to pardon some of the 1500 people charged in connection with january 6, sometimes suggesting his clemency might extend to the leaders of far-right groups like the proud boys and other descendants who assaulted police officers. allen is in wilmington, delaware on our line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. absolutely not should he be pardoned. when you look at it, he's been pardoned by 70 plus million people who voted for him. and having biden pardon him in addition to that is absolutely ludicrous. he has done i don't know how

many different crimes he should have been in prison for. and the fact that the question is even asked should biden pardon him, absolutely not. and biden should not, he should as somebody said grow a spine. he should absolutely not be pardon. host: kevin is in massachusetts on the independent line. caller: good morning. i am an independent but i say absolutely not. to do that solidified that he is -- solidifies that he is above the law and it should not be allowed. they reached out to him repeatedly and repeatedly, up

until a year and a half later, he still has the document. that's why they did the investigation, his own people who were working for him said that he told them to hide the documents. and that's why they came after them. for january 6, he sat there. i heard somebody say they opened the doors. maybe some of them did open the doors. but not all of the people working at the capital opened the doors. it got out of control his own people, republicans contacted or tried to contact him and said you need to stop, you need to call these people off. the people working in the white house said he ignored them and what they told him. he was watching on tv and took three hours while people were running for their lives. absolutely not.

the cases will go away, the federal cases will go away. those other cases, absolutely not. you cannot tell our young people that we have equal justice under law and yet if you get to be the president and you commit all kinds of crimes, well, we are going to forgive you. host: kevin mentioned the documents case that special counsel jack smith was pursuing. there is another article in politico that says jackson has taken the first steps to halt president trump's prosecution, citing the unprecedented circumstance of the crumbled defendant being elected as president. special counsel jack smith has postponed a series of deadlines in the washington, d.c. criminal case against donald trump for seeking to subvert between 20 elections. the move friday was smith's

first of public acknowledgment that the case cannot continue in light of trump's imminent return to power. u.s. district court judge granted smith's request for trump's postponement. he gave him a little more than a week to decide on his first step. smith acknowledged trump's victory tuesday has upended the case, prompting prosecutors to ask for more time to determine how to proceed. patrick is in canton, georgia on our line for republicans. good morning, patrick. >> thank you. it is a hard answer for me because personally, i think if it wasn't donald trump, he would not have been brought up on these legal cases. but i think for the pardon thing , i think the time to have done that would have been 2-3 weeks before the election. joe biden could have pardoned

donald trump and kamala harris could have taken the credit for that. maybe that would have swung some of the trumper's over to her side and she could have won the election. the other thing i want to say was about the documents case. it's amazing to me, people call in and say he should go to jail for the document case. joe biden got away with having documents in his possession for years and nobody wants to talk about that. i think it is a hard call. i don't think it is going to happen. i don't believe it will happen. like i said, the time to have done it would have been before the election so kamala harris could have taken credit for that. you very much. host: julie is in lafayette, indiana on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: i don't think you should pardon criminal activity, no matter who does it. and i don't think the president should be any exception or the

law doesn't mean anything. and as far as the documents go, it wasn't the fact that both of them had documents. it was the fact that one of them refused to give the documents back after repeated requests. that's the part that some people that worship the guy want to glaze over. honestly, we have elected a thug. fine, you can't prosecute? don't pardon. wait four years and pick up where we left off. because that is absolutely criminal and it cannot be ignored. that's all i have to say. host: in washington, d.c. on the line for independent, good morning. -- independents, good morning. caller: if we believe that the law is level and for all people, then he absolutely should be charged. black people make up 10% of this

population but they make up 70% of those in prison. when you have a man who says find me 12,000 votes, we have that on tape, then you have a man who authorizes a lynch mob. for people who don't understand that, they brought a rope and a scalpel to the white house to hang his own vice president and pelosi and he did nothing about that. and when you have the same person decide that he is above the law and there is nothing we can do, and you want to validate that by giving him a pardon, you cannot tell anyone in this country that they should abide by the law. he should absolutely be put in jail. personally, he should have been put in jail by what he did with

covid. we lost a million people. i heard 700,000 of them, trump could have saved, had he been at least an honest person about what was going on. this country has forgotten those folks. we have lost a lot of souls and he is responsible for those. that alone is reason for him to be locked up. host: edward is in wisconsin on our line for republicans. good morning, edward. caller: good morning. i would like to say democrats amaze me. everybody -- by every political standard, hillary should have gotten 10 years in prison. they let joe biden off with the same crime and yet he is still president. host: edward, do you think biden should pardon trump?

caller: no, i think he should fight all these bogus claims. the people in january 6 who stormed the capital are my heroes. everyone knows that election was stolen. host: julio is in brooksville, florida on the line for democrats. caller: good morning. letitia james should be barred. jack smith should be sued by trump. for the false accusations he put on him. and for people to come out and say biden is god and he's doing great, look at the things he has done. is he going to pardon hunter? you bet he will. i was a democrat but i am garbage now. he called half my family and half my friends garbage. that turns all of us into

garbage. and any democrat that thinks he is great by calling you garbage, you are garbage. have a great day. host: julio mentioned hunter biden. former president trump said on thursday he would consider pardoning hunter biden if he wins the need 24 election. i wouldn't take it off the books, trump told the conservative radio host, hugh hewitt in an interview. see, unlike joe biden, what they hae to me wherehave gone after me so viciously, hunteriden has been a bad boy. u had to do is see the op. i happen to think it is bad for our country. i could have gone afte hillary. i could have gone after hillary very easily. when they say lock of, what did i do, i always say take it easy, relaxed, we are winning. i could have had her put in jail

and i decided i didn't want to do that. i thought it would look terrible. that is on hunter biden. let's hear from rich in new york on our line for independents. good morning. caller: hello. i'm amazed. i'm amazed at the ignorance of the people in this country. this man is the biggest scammer /schemer who has taken a breath of air. it's amazing these people won't let him go. is he above the law? obviously they think so. i can't believe these people, they can't see through this man. host: do you think that president biden should former -- pardon the president elect? caller: that just tells everyone he is above the law. why is he above the law? he's not above the law, he's a man.

he's just like anyone else, he just got a title as the president of the united states. the man is only a man. by letting this man go, i'm ashamed. i'm ashamed to say i'm an american. i have nothing else to say. this country disgusts me. host: thomas is in california on our line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning, how are you? thank you for taking my call. and thanks for c-span for all of the things that you do. there are a few points i would like to make. there was a call from san francisco. the caller said, he talked about how people earn forgiveness and pardons. caller: before you respond to the -- host: before you respond to the

other callers, do you think biden should pardon president elect trump? caller: i think so. i say yes to that question. definitely. what we should realize is that people knew of all of these problems and they still voted convincingly for the president-elect. tim walz made a very good point. and we should realize as a nation that and i for nine -- an eye for an eye will leave everybody blind. let's just put this country back together. this country is bigger than one party and anyone president or organization. to be honest, if trump were to lose this election, there was

never going to be peace. i'm pretty sure we would not be this peaceful after tuesday. let's be honest, this country needs healing. it's about time we all stop and take a deep breath and think about what he said. he said to behave. that's what i want to say. thank you. host: roseanne is in san diego, on the line for democrats. good morning, roseann. caller: thank you. no, biden should not pardon trump because trump deserves to go down in history as the criminal that he obviously is. he made a lot of crimes against the people of america. and even though he won't be tried, he won't be convicted, he

won't be sentenced, he should go down in history for being what he is, which is not honest. i think that biden should treat trump exactly the way trump treated biden four years ago, which was pretty, pretty nasty. i think biden has gone overboard, to be nice. he doesn't need to be. trump should have already been in jail. he could have won the election anyway and governed from prison. he does not deserve a pardon at all. that would be a betrayal to every single one of us who cares about this country. so, that's all i have to say. thank you. host: lewis is in new jersey on the line for independents. good morning. caller: good morning.

if i was trump, i wouldn't take the pardon because all of these cases are going to be overturned. i watched the appeal on c-span. and those judges attacked the prosecutor. as far as the felonies, with that crazy lady, the judge gave unconstitutional instrucons, telling the jury that if one person finds him glty, on a charge, then he will be found guilty on specific charges. 34 felonies. they found him guilty of 34 felonies in less than a day. please. come on. and trump doesn't think he's above the law. thank you. host: surely in tennessee on the line for republicans. caller: good morning.

some people may disagree with me. but it seems like the room with the exception of a few callers -- the route with the exception of a few callers, it seems like the root is causing a lot of animosity and infighting. i have a democrat -- had a democrat friend of mine cussed me out because trump won. personally, i think that whether people think trump is guilty or not, in order to put the past behind us, trump should go ahead and get pardoned by biden. but i also think trump should pardon hunter. he just lost a brother. he hit rock bottom. he messed up. i think that if biden pardons

trump and trump does pardon hunter, regardless of what anybody else thinks about it, and all the dust settles, it's going to let this country start healing moving forward and take the vicious political polarization out of this and let's try to move forward. get our economy back together and move forward to some simple governing. -- civil governing. that's my feeling on that. host: john is in arlington heights, illinois, on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you doing? i love c-span. some people might think c-span, they would watch it or whatever because it's not exciting. but i disagree. i think c-span is good, it is good to see that c-span has jokes.

this is a guy, you don't pardon people. nixon resigned. to be pardon, you have t some type of active attrition, you don't just get pardoned. if he had lost, he would've went to jail. it's not like the president of the united states can youth the government to send soldiers to donald trump's house. this post on in a legal way in georgia, in florida, which was a red state. the prosecutor went to the people, he was indicted by a grand jury of his peers and what should happen, it from falafel would have happened is jack smith that went and got that case in florida reinstated. so trump is guilty.

and when trump get out of office, restart it. but even if you pardon him it doesn't matter because trump is going to commit more crimes. he's not going to stop committing crimes, that is who he is, he is a criminal. he's going to put more criminals in jail anyway. the whole idea of pardoning donald trump, he doesn't do anything. president biden should pardon his son. if he doesn't, i think that showed a weakness on biden. hunter has never been prosecuted for those crimes. >> we are just about out of time for the segment. we were discussing the national review article suggesting that president biden should pardon president elect donald trump. and after the break we are going to have national abuse editor-in-chief join us along

with the nation magazine editorial director and publisher who will discuss those 2024 election results as well as former president trump's return to the white house. we will be right back. this is c-span.org results. the cumbrian's of coverage of the 2024 campaign results. the final electoral college breakdown in the presidential race and see which states each candidate carries. dive into our interactive maps to explore the outcomes in the senate, house and governors race. the final balance of power in congress, plus watch exceptions and confession features on demand anytime. stay up-to-date with c-span, your unfiltered view of politics at c-span.org results.

tonight on q&a, former domestic policy adver to president carter and u.s. ambassador to the european union under president clinton. he shares his book the art of diplomacy in which he discusses his career and the impact that civil rights movement had on him. black students are sitting in. google this, that is when the sit in started in queens and durham. and i said why are they doing this? what universe do you live in? it's because they can't be served. and it was like somebody lifted the veil on me and i saw the world in a very different way. i didn't question it. i became very active in the civil rights movement and when i was of president carter, we supported affirmative action for

black contractors. so these kinds of transformative events when you are young can sometimes carry over into your career and they certainly did for me. his book "the art of diplomacy tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern on q&a. you can listen to cumin day and all of our podcasts on the free c-span now radio at the c-span bookshelf podcast feed makes it easy for you to listen to all of c-span podcasts feature nonfiction books in one place. you can discover new offers and ideas. each week we are making it convenient for you to listen to multiple episodes with critically acclaimed authors discussing history, biographies, current events and culture. from our signature programs on

the free c-span now mobile video at or wherever your podcasts, and on our website, c-span.org podcasts. washington journal continues. host: welcome back. to discuss the results of the 2024 election, i'm joined now by rich lowry, editor-in-chief of the national review as well as katrina, editorial director and publisher of the nation. the to you both. i'll ask you both to start, did the election results surprise you, and why or why not? >> so they surprised in the sense that i believe that there would be a surge of women protesting the rolling back of women's rights. i think of reproductive rights as an economic issue, a kitchen table issue. that surge actually happened in

2022 when women really came out in strength after dobbs supreme court decision and the independence broke for democrats. why i wasn't surprised is i'm a bernie sanders democrat and i believe can speaking the people's economic concerns. where they are. and you can see the anger in the country, you can see that this was a change election, but it was not one cause, but a lot of people were seeking answers to the economic troubles, pain in their life, to the inflation. and instead of running with a compelling economic, populist, progressive message, harris ran not to the base, but tried to carve out the independent suburban women with a liz cheney campaign. when you saw that, three days

spent with liz cheney, you could think of what else she might have done in those three days. so i have to say ask some edits a magazine which opposes some of the trade deals which are the original sin in so many ways, the industrialized part of this country which enraged workers, i think that much more laserlike focus on the economy, on the change election would make a difference. there's not one cause, the numbers are pretty strong. i don't believe trump has a mandate down valid. we saw initiatives that were certainly counterterrorist policies, and some senators. so i wouldn't say if it is 2%, it is a huge mandate, of the popular vote, you can't question that, in the electoral obviously wet the president, but i don't disagree clicking through the reckoning could be had about the kind of campaign they ran.

host: rich, what is your take? >> surprised by the sweep of it, but i wasn't surprised that he would win. a lot of conditions obviously were in his favor, and people around him, insult had this theory that you could go to the center on entitlements and on trade, and go further right on culture and you can broaden and deepen and diversify your coalition and that nearly ended up being screwed. aunt donald trump now whether you like it or not, clearly defining political figure of our era. i think everyone has a point, everyone is to blame on that side, but ultimately it all goes to joe biden. he picked kamala harris as vice president to begin with. he didn't govern as a unifier, as a moderate or a centrist or someone who is competent, and then he made this

catastrophically irresponsible, selfish decision last year to run again when he is obviously in decline and everyone could see it. all the polling showed it. the democrats in the polling said it. the and much of the democratic elite with some exceptions went along with this absurd fiction that he could serve another five years as president. the rest of this year and then four additional years. and that fiction really fell apart in the first debate, and then they were stopped. they can have another process, it would have been difficult at that point with percent approval rating, and then the choice is kamala harris. she wasn't confident, she wasn't creative, and she said all these things in 2019, 2020 that were just not survivable in a general election, and she had to back off all those, making herself seem insincere and phony, and then i think in part as a function of that, she had to further back off of everything that happened the last 3.5

years, because that would be totally unsustainable. the choice to say i'm a bit out of the loop, i wasn't involved in everything for i was the last person in the room and i was responsible, that is what she did. she has no separation from joe biden, she hugged his policies as a president with 40% approval rating. i was just going to say, i have talked to donald trump he wouldn't of one if joe biden at 50% approval, but joe biden was a 40% approval. guest: i do think that the original sin was president five and going back on his now that he wouldn't run a second term. i do think many of his policies. listen, he broke with a kind of neoliberal consensus that had dominated washington for years, whether it was bill clinton or george h w. it's time had come. and i think the investments he

in this country, the ira badly named will be showing up in these communities in these next months and years. and i think the kamala harris campaign, again, the alliance with neoconservatives and in essence, dissing your base was really key. i don't think of these as recriminations. it is about rethinking where the democratic party, the progressive community is headed. host: i want to listen to a little bit of president elect trump's victory speech on wednesday morning where he laid out some of his visions for america. from: you know we are the party of common sense. we want to have borders, we want to have security, we want to have things be good and safe. we want great education. we want a strong and powerful military and ideally we don't have to use it. for years, we had no wars except

we defeated isis. we defeated isis in record time, but we had no wars. they said he will start a war. i'm not going to start a war, i'm going to stop wars. but this is also a massive victory for democracy and for freedom. together we are going to unlock america's glorious destiny. we are going to achieve the most incredible future for our people. yesterday as i stood at my last stop on the campaign trail, never be doing a rally again, can you believe it? i think we've done 900 rallies approximately, can you imagine? 900. 900 one, something. a lot of rallies. and everybody was sad. many people i said this is our last rally, but now we are going on to something that is far more important is the rallies were used for us to put, to be put in this position where we could

really help our country, that is what we are going to do. post: rich, one of the things that will help president-elect trump achieve that agenda is republican control of the senate and what looks to be, we are still waiting to find out, republican control of the house. what are you expecting in terms of that agenda? guest: well, you've seen some of it out of the box, he had a statement about censorship on social media and the cooperation between the government, the pressure on the government on social media companies to police their content. one, we will see a lot of deregulation, extension of the tax credit energy, unleash the military buildup, and the first time around, the republican senate really influenced him and to block times. now he's a total legend within

his party and has an incredible grip across the party. i don't want to say he's going to get whatever he wants, there are limits. just to that clip, the media coverage of this campaign was so stilted and biased. trump insult the people and he can be harsh and negative. we also can be incredibly positive and optimistic. almost wildly so. and i think one thing that happened in this campaign was occupied the center in important respects. i'm a big pro-lifer, but even if you put that aside, what is the more moderate position? abortion all the way through nine months, four states should decide, and i think some of the states have gone too far and we have to be very careful. just objectively, the more moderate position is trump. they portray him at this radical right winger. all he is saying is that transgender males shouldn't

compete in female sports. and 10 years ago and he said that is a right wing position, people would've thought you are crazy, it is a common sense position. but the democrats went so left on this stuff. and the poor democrats, a couple of them have said don't be quite so out there on that stuff. and they gotten shot at for the democratic chairman in texas had to resign after saying we don't need to go quite so far on all this stuff is he was called a hater. this kind of locks down the boca left, and it feels to a certain segment of people. post: we are getting a bunch of callers coming in. before we get to those calls, i want to ask you about a recent piece that you have in the nation. executive action five and could take. we talked about what trump is likely going to do. what do you think biden should do it his remaining time in office.

>> i feel very strong about the futility and the disaster of the u.s. cuba relations, there are no castro's no kennedys in government. it's a very poor, destroyed country by the pandemic. you could argue some of the country's own policies, but it is in crisis. i think president biden 50 cuba office state terrorism list. i think he could do more. i also think he could look at judicial vacancies really swiftly on that. the pardons, you were talking about hunter biden. well, rich's magazine endorsed giving biden giving hunter biden a pardon. host: do present electron? guest: it is a bylined piece. >> my. federal justice way. host: just for clarity, it was an op-ed in the national review. guest: i respect that

distinction, but wrongfully convicted people, those trump has darted through his career, i think there's quite a bit they could be done for executive action. of course he could get rolled back, but it is a signal. the woke stuff, it is social justice. it is overplayed by the media. the numbers are small, but the most interesting thing about trump i think, he's going to be very disciplined. he's brought in a chief of staff, a woman who shows discipline. he's learned from the first round not to bring in people who are not loyal to him. but the thing that interests me is yesterday, i believe, some called for the withdrawal of u.s. troops from syria. a broken clock can be right twice, i think that is the expression. the idea that he would stop wars, not start wars, which test him. let's see if he can resolve the situation in ukraine, the middle east, or talked about nato in base that.

because i think we are a real dangerous turning point of becoming this militarized country, and support people need in this country is going to evaporate into wars that we don't need. it is not isolationism, it is what is in the interest of america's security, and the biden-harris foreign policy indispensable nations, i think a lot of voters may not be their first issue, but they lloyd -- multiple deployed man in their communities and they are fed up with this idea that we are the policeman of the world. there is an alternative course, and i think that's going to be important. if trump shows the way. host: you're going to be taking your calls. for democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independence, (202) 748-8002.

before we get to those calls, listen to a portion of president biden's remarks in the rose garden on thursday on the peaceful transfer of power. president biden: i was hoping we can later wrest the question about the integrity of the american system. it is honest, it is fair, and it is transparent. and it can be trusted, win or lose. i also hope we can was further respect for all our election workers who took risks at the outset. we should thank them. thank them for staffing voting sites, counting of votes. protecting the very integrity of the election. many of them are volunteers. they do it simply out of love for their country. and as they did, as they did their duty as citizens, i will do my duty as president. i will fulfill my own and honor

the constitution. on january 20 we will have a peaceful transfer of power here in america. post: now to your calls, sandy is in florida on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: how are you? caller: i don't have a question, i just think that biden should let all this go and let trump start new. i think we ought to forget all this garbage of he and she and just move on and do what needs to be done to keep our country safe. and make our country great again. host: so rich, why don't you respond and add any other detail you would like to add regarding that call that was in your magazine as an op-ed for president biden to pardon former president trump. guest: i'm not sure how likely

that is. it would not be taken kindly by president trump. obviously, because there is a suggestion of guilt and a strong application of guilt in a pardon. i think apartment definitely will happen is hunter biden. this would be self lincoln kind of corrupt on a certain level of very understandable on a human level. i think maybe the play that biden is engaged in year is unwinding these investigations and prosecutions so trump doesn't have to go in and do these hugely controversial firings right out of the top and squash these investigations. at the same time, he pardons hunter and hopes that trump prosecutions will be unwound and won't -- out of the water. very speculative, but that host: is my guess. host:katrina, what is your take on the idea of parted -- biden pardoning the president-elect? guest: i think it would rouse

tough spirit in much of the country. there is a strong view that there is accountability and justice is to be done. so i don't see it in the cards. i do see hunter biden for the main reason, human reason. but i certainly don't see biden pardoning trump, and i am not sure. there are a lot of indictments, so i don't see that in the cards. i do, again, come back to the point that biden could give pardons to a lot of wrongfully convicted people for languishing in our prisons. host: clearwater, florida, line for democrats. good morning. caller: so i think trump, the message from the trump campaigns very effective because the election really came -- became about lower propensity voters,

lower information voters and the attack on trans and the migrants are eating the cats and dogs, democrats are communists that are trying to reel babies. i think what is more important is that kid that came into the trump era as toddlers have had 10 years of this. 10 years of their parents fighting. their neighbors fighting about trump. every day, everything is about trump, and that is going to continue and continue. soto's 15-year-old could have been so damaged by their damaged parents talking about their idolatry or hate of trump is going to be amplified. and what is going to happen to those children? guest: children are resilient creatures. my daughter is about to have a baby.

that baby will see trump, trump, trump. i'm not sure trump is going to be the big rallies. he's going to have to govern. governing tenney boring. will he not govern, that is a sin, too. i want to pick up on what you said about education. there's a lot of talk about social mobility. this country is failing on social mobility, a lot of divide between educated and uneducated voters. what about apprenticeships in this country. good jobs. not everyone has a four year degree. it's not about second-class citizenship, it's about a reality that this world is facing. and i think the jobs, unemployment, social mobility is a critical factor for a civilized society. let me just say the party of common sense, the idea of deporting 11 million people, that is insane for economic reasons, obviously for moral reasons. it's going to cause inflation, all kinds of factors.

it is not common sense. i agree that we need a party that pays attention to the economic struggles, pain and ambition of millions, but they are going to have to hundred and and do some real work and not just rallies if that is going to happen. host: senator bernie sanders was espousing similar views on x and wrote it should come anoreat surprise that the democratic party which has abandoned working-class people would find the working-class has abandoned them. first it was the white working black workers as well.o and democratic leadershi defends the status quo and the american people are angry and want ange and they are r will the big-money money interests well paid consultant to consult the democratic party learn any of your lessonsrom this disastrous campaign? do theunderstand the pain and political alienation that tends of millions of americans are experiencing?

guest: amen. host: wisconsin, line for independence. good morning. caller: so i've got a nothing both keith of information, a critical error democrats made. in 2020, 40 million people were losing sleep that night over there student loans voted for joe biden because he promised not only to campus student loans, but to return bankruptcy to student loans. he did neither of those things. he faked it. interestingly, it was a billionaire liberal elite who whispered in nancy pelosi's ear and got nancy pelosi to turn against his student loan cancellation initiative. that's 40 million people who put biden into office who, completely abandoned and ignored. and more importantly, the dnc has taken to return to

bankruptcy protections out of the party platform. this is not something that i would imagine a friend of lynn rothchild, a billionaire manhattan social person like catherine might understand, but i do understand that rich, you wrote an article calling for the return of ankara please. host: let's not attack our guests. also, her name is katrina. trina, i will let you respond firkin follow-up with rich. guest: do loans, something the nation has supported beyond what is on the table. i believe they were republican stops to it. you can be moved as effectively as the democrats wanted it to be. the issue of bankruptcy is something senator elizabeth warren has barely put the needle on and it is very important for people who live paycheck to paycheck, week to week, to have a bankruptcy possibility is not a great solution.

but it is real. just again, the come back to bernie sanders, the connection to working people. you can throw around rothchild, connection to working people or something that any ordinary person, any person can develop as it is part of their -- so bernie sanders a summer lee endorsed in 2016. i think he is an older person now, but still feisty and scrappy. we need to find a new bernie sanders of their generation, whether it is down ballot in states, who will see mobility as a serious issue and three class concerns and the working-class of all kinds with they did it. host: rich, i would love to hear your thoughts on this argument about what happened with democrats and working-class voters, and also what, if anything you think the president-elect might do on stew

loans. guest: yeah. so i do not recall that article the caller attributed to me. i have a total different interpretation. biden was obsessed with doing this. a major spending program that you have been passed through congress, but he was so determined to do it that and repeatedly attempted these lawless executive actions to forgive student loans. these are loans that people took out and should have to repay. it is a message to all the people who don't have four year degrees and this, and have to payroll and plane for this -- play a role in paying for this, that they don't matter as much as people went to college. i agree with katrina when she was talking about apprenticeships earlier. a lot of people, the political elite, they might think of their own kids. this is someone with a backpack going to dartmouth.

a lot go into trades, honest days work, and they should be respected. we don't do enough to do that. bernie and his interpretation of , i think of the bernie sanders of 15, 20 years ago, to the exclusion of a racial or woke concerns, skeptical of open borders, that approach would be much better for democrats than the one they have now. but the fact is biden was as far left as you possibly be on the economics given the constraints that he had been congress. it wasn't popular, it didn't work. inflation more than anything else sank him and kamala harris. but the woke issues are just a killer. again, there's a reason kamala harris gained in a couple groups. white college graduates and seniors. democrats are becoming, emphasis on becoming, much more than an

affluent, white party. and when you tell people that you are ok and you support biological males competing in female sports, doesn't matter if it is not happening very much, if you can't say you oppose that a lot of people are going to think you are out of touch and completely crazy. the ad that hurt her most was the one heading her on that issue and she could never compellingly respond. host: i want to stay with you for a text message we received from sue in oregon, ohio that says i would like to know what would happen to jd vance's senate seat now that he will be vice president. guest: interesting question. i believe the republican governor gets to a point a replacement, and there has been jockeying for it. i think vivek ramaswamy more than a trump position, i'm guessing he would very much want that senate seat. and if trump picks up the phone