affluent, white party. and when you tell people that you are ok and you support biological males competing in female sports, doesn't matter if it is not happening very much, if you can't say you oppose that a lot of people are going to think you are out of touch and completely crazy. the ad that hurt her most was the one heading her on that issue and she could never compellingly respond. host: i want to stay with you for a text message we received from sue in oregon, ohio that says i would like to know what would happen to jd vance's senate seat now that he will be vice president. guest: interesting question. i believe the republican governor gets to a point a replacement, and there has been jockeying for it. i think vivek ramaswamy more than a trump position, i'm guessing he would very much want that senate seat. and if trump picks up the phone and calls mike dewine, there is

a strong chance he could get it. guest: it was crushing to see sherrod brown, a very decent, longtime senator from ohio go down. i believe he's run three times for senate, but this was the first during a presidential election. and of course, trump running. he was someone who cared deeply for the working-class, stood for dignity and understood his state, and i think we need more sherrod brown's, and rich, you are real smart, but the whole drive on the trends issue is gemmed up between large extent. this is not a huge issue, it is made into one by the millions ported to the ad. guest: if it's not a big issue i couldn't democrats just say no, biological males can't compete in female sports, it is such a

rare thing. guest: fly think the answer were different, a word about the sports issue as much as the protecting -- guest: surgeries. >> there's no state where there is surgery below 18. host: so let's get back to the callers. i want to hear from steve in florida on the line for democrats, go ahead. caller: hello. the reason why i called is because i think a lot of the democrats problem is that we let the right characterize us. unlike most voters that vote democrat, i believe them unrestricted free-market capitalism, i'm not a socialist. i've worked full-time all my life, i never wanted the government to support me. and as far as all these isolated

incidents that happened in the country that are pulled out and reframed as the front and center of the democratic platform, like these buzzwords like woke. really, what does that even mean? i think that that is a manufactured buzzword like socialism. the way that we are characterized and framed is not what democratic voters are like. and rich, you are one of the people i'd like to sit down and have a cup of coffee with and just talk about as far as politics, what happens in our lives. what develops our political feelings and everything instead

of just hiding behind all these phrases and buzzwords. host: let's let rich respond to that. guest: the term woke, it's not like her publicans came up with that term. he came out of the academic complex, it is a word people on the left apply to themselves. and if you look at the 2019 presidential race, 2020 presidential race, joe biden, traditional democrat, i think he had gone too far left, but he said i'm not going there. i think mild and the credit party still exists. and kamala harris and others race down this track to embrace every wild left-wing position they could come up with, considering abolishing ice, decriminalizing illegal crossings. medicare for all. >> what is radical about medicare for all? >> ending private health insurance is not a position most people are going to support.

instantly backed off of it. she went down this track and i didn't make her do that, republicans didn't do it, she did it because she thought that with the future of the party. then she realized that was not. then she was asked about all the stuff this time around. usually when you flip onto something, and i am all in favor of changing positions on things, i've changed on things myself, but you think it through and you come up with an explanation. host: the callers larger point with this labeling of democrats with these terms, the idea of woke and some of these buzzwords that the caller mentioned as being deployed unfairly against democrats. similar to some of the complaints that you heard during the biden administration from republicans, that many of these other buzzwords are being deployed against them. how do we, if we move beyond this? >> if democrats don't want to be

called woke, they shouldn't be woke. they should be a moderate party. katrina and some callers say these are very rare cases. if they are rare and not important, just say you don't support them. but she couldn't. i don't need to be obsessed, but kamala harris had no compelling explanation for where her position was or why she had taken that radical position or how she would change. she just said i'm going to follow the law. people watch that and say that is not an answer. that is what happened. >> i want to come back to your caller. i do think there is a demonization of issues, of people that precludes having a serious debate about what the future, the short-term future, for example, of the democratic party or the country, or understanding this issue of pushing out incumbents with nativist rights issues is a

global issue right now. i think the fight over woke and what it means and who supports, it distracts from a politics that is about issues that matter to people's lives. and i think i've seen a lot of failure to deal with the transition on the part of republicans because they are fearful about a changing country. it's not going to overtake our country. trans is a social issue that demands attention. the media, especially the republican media in its different forms gives it way too much attention. finally your caller's point that he is not a socialist. i'm a rooseveltian democrat and i think are different kinds of capitalism. there is a predatory capitalism which i think we will see with trump and his crypto people and others, and there is a more humane kind of capitalism.

many of my colleagues would disagree, thinking about democratic socialism. but i do think that we need a full debate about where we are heading as a country, and that demands a lot of rethinking, which is tough for people in this country. and you know, others. host: jewel is in fort lauderdale, florida, on the line for independents. caller: good morning, everyone. i was calling, i'm hearing all the other callers and i have a mixture of people in my inner circle. some are democratic. i am independent. democratic, republican. and i'm hearing the fighting amongst everyone. the problem is, i'm not political and i hate it because it brings out the worst in people, but i've watched this election cycle and my thing is i

don't feel that the incoming president, mr. trump, a lot of us are talking and there are some things i don't agree with both parties, but at the end of the day, we are humans, right? we are supposed to be loving one another. i'm a believer in jesus christ and i don't see that love here with trump. all his rallies have been spewing hatred and demoralizing others. i don't know if there's going to be guardrails up for our safety, and i just don't foresee it. he's going to be bringing in people and there are going to be no guard rails you know.

we have the prior generals and other people putting up guardrails, they are all gone. host: i want to get our guest a chance to respond but first i want to read a statement from liz cheney was obviously campaigning for vice president harris forhe end of the campaign. our nation democratic system functions anave a new president-elect. all americe bound, whether we like the outcome or n, accept the results of our election. we have a special responsi as citizens of the greatest nation on earth to do everything we can to support preserve the rule of law, and ensure that our institutions hold over these coming for years. citizens across this country our courts, members of the press and those serving in a federal, state and local government must now be the guardrails of democracy. both liz cheney and alcohol are talking about guardrails, or the lack thereof in becoming trump

administration. >> i agree with most of that statement, from liz cheney, but we were talking just a couple minutes ago about buzzwords that are simplistic and crude and defame one side. buzzwords like fascism. this is what liz cheney was out there with kamala harris making this case against donald trump and it is completely absurd on almost every level. fascists, one thing they support his expansionist wars abroad. territorial aggrandized them. as katrina was saying, she hopes trump will actually be a traditional republican and that with the case in the first trump term. so this absurd smear against trump. now, there are things he says that he shouldn't. he does freak people out, and he shouldn't. but the caller, and i really appreciate her sincerity, these

rallies were not as portrayed. he would say harsh and negative things, but he would also say wildly optimistic things about unifying the country and the golden age, but those were never in the headlines because the press was so slanted in this race and determined to defeat donald trump. >> there were some pretty crazy things said at the rally. i wanted to say the fascism that were thrown around, it was thrown around too often. robert paxton came to believe that he was witnessing a kind of fascism. fascism is essentially corporate power fused with government state power. i found it interesting. i'm not denouncing it, that elon musk got on a call with the leader of ukraine. it's not clear where that is going to go, bringing in unofficial people, supporters on those calls. >> having unofficial people on

calls isn't fascism. >> no, no, i'm saying the power of musk or some of the other oligarchs, it's going to be very oligarchical. however, project 2025 which many listeners may remember, ineffective trump remains disciplined, it is an outline of what we will witness. weaponizing are politicizing the civil service, the justice department, all of that is frightening. that is a blueprint, if people want to check out what trump and his team intend to do. host: so with the acknowledgment that during the campaign the president-elect distance himself from project 2025, our last caller did bring up this idea that there would no longer be guardrails around the president-elect. the agree with that, and what do you think would be the response to that?

>> i think you will see sustained organizing. at the state level, taking it to the states. movements organizing if there are mass deportations. and i think the progressives and other democrats will be a phalanx. the justice department is one where you could see an expansion of executive power. on the other hand, i still maintain that if -- i do think there is a chance that we have a different kind of engagement with the world where we are not policing, we are not an indefensible nation, understanding that america is one of several. restraint and realism. better than this indispensable nation. >> gary is in winter haven,

florida, lying for democrats. caller: i wanted to talk about the results of the election. it's really simple why the democrats lost. first is the american people have a very low tolerance for economic pain. they don't understand how things work, and they have short memories. i hear a lot about cheap trump gas. that is the covid lockdown and the laws of supply and demand. it had nothing to do with trump policy. and then inflation coming off the covid lockdown, didn't matter whether trump or biden won, we were going to experience that. biden did a pretty good job but he was straddled with economic pain. and then people have short memories. trump lost in 2020 because we were suffering economic pain, we were all in lockdown. biden lost in 2024 because of the effects of the lockdown, we are still experiencing economic pain, the blending of the administration.

>> i think this is the last covid election. i think we forget the impact of covid on our country, economy and society. host: rich, what do you think of that assessment, that whoever happened to be in power during this time of high inflation is a lost? -- basically lost? >> i think there is a lot to that, and they drew findling woke stuff played a role. trump is leading on the economy pretty consistently. some polling three weeks out or show -- so showed harris catching up. they just seems hard for me to believe he was going to lose winning by 10 points or more on the economy. biden didn't cause the inflation solely, but his policies did make it worse with the overspending and just the denial. if you his credibility. and that is something that also played a big role that was

entirely biden's fault was the border. he just blew up the border because he ripped up every trump policy that had worked and reasonable, millions of people flowing in, and after three and a half years, they deny it. even though you have democratic mayors across the city's saying please, make it stop, we can't take this. i know we are supposed to be a sanctuary city but 10,000 illegal immigrants have shown up and it is bankrupting us. finally they did a little bit by convincing mexico to do more stuff as well and promoting this pretty bogus so-called enforcement bill, but biden did that for just no reason to placate the left, largely deals the left is a bully believe we have a moral right to exclude a certain class of people. this is something trump will fix pretty quickly. >> i mean, i think it is a fallacy that he is going to fix it pretty quickly. it is an ongoing, embedded

problem. there's new thinking about how not to weaponize the border, but find a public safety approach. it's been so criminalized and weaponized that is not effective. i think trump, his policy is just not feasible for the economy, for morality and for a real way forward. there's a lot of -- >> remain in mexico totally sustainable, totally humane, and was working, and biden ended it for no reason, just for the sake of it. just because he didn't like trump policies and want to open up the border in the country has paid the price and kamala harris has paid the price. as soon as trump is inaugurated, border flow will go to zero and that will tick up again. host: katrina, your thoughts quickly and then back to our calls. >> it's about the economy.

one thing we haven't talked about which is interesting are these trade deals which really began a process of weakening the american working class. not just helping the mexican working class, but on trade, it's going to be inducing to watch because robert lighthizer, who is the pic i believe, is very close to the left-leaning trade person. so there is this trend partisan alliance in that. rethinking the border has to be humane, effective, and about public safety and security. host: we want to get back to our callers. let's hear from jerry in new jersey on the line for republicans. go ahead, jerry. caller: morning. i saw in a cnn or msnbc, the head of this big hispanic group, and he was saying that the

hispanics voted so highly because many of them, cubans or whatever, came from actual communist countries, and all this trump is hitler and a communist and racist and misogynist, all those names he was saying that all these people that came from a communist country saw exactly what the left with saying and they saw all the laws, lock him up, he is a felon, and they said they left countries that were doing that. and now they see it happening here in america, and they think that the left was the ones that are being communists. now, he also mentioned that harris, when they were running, she had beyonce, lady gaga, oprah, julia roberts, george

clooney, stevie wonder. they are all millionaires or billionaires. when trump had his, he had his friends on. dana white. people that he's been friends with for 50 years. so that also influence them because most of america can't really relate to millionaires. host: your point about hispanic voters, i want to read an article from the miami herald. the headline is to hispanic voters take trump's immigration rhetoric personally? most say no despite former president donald trump's continued rhetoric about immigration, particularly along the southern u.s. border, its support is growing among hispanics with most saying his remarks are not about them, according to a poll. his remarks on immigration have long inflamed his opponent on the left and some influential voices on the right, accusing him of demonizing immigrants in

order to score political points which the bulk of attention from latin america. some of these arguments about trump really did not land well with hispanic voters. what is your take? >> she was discussing cuban voters, and that made the true of cuban voters but this is much broader than that. from has brought a net from traditional republican strength enable the amazing way. democrats, the bargain i offered to hispanics and other groups, you can be an oppressed victim like everyone else, they say no, we just want to be americans, we just want to be part of the mainstream, and they are. they care about the economy more than white voters did. i think that was the overwhelming factor here. hispanic councils have more people in them than any other group in the country. you have inflation, that is going to hurt them more.

i'll be done quickly, i promise. and that also i think the average hispanic voter, the choice is between an democrat, they were the with the fdr democrat. that is not the democratic party anymore. social justice issues appeal to affluent white people overwhelmingly, and these folks, these working-class hispanics are not woke. they are patriotic, they are religious. i think the economy and the wokeness of the democratic party drove these voters into trump's arms. >> i think that is a mischaracterization -- mischaracterization of the democratic party, but i do agree that 2020, the democrats made the mistake of treating latinos as a monolithic group is critically important for that

cohort and i think democrats need to press hard and think hard. host: queens, new york, on the line for democrats. go ahead. all right, let's hear from patrick in florida on the line for independents. caller: well thanks for taking my call. a couple things. one, katrina said nafta with the downfall of american manufacturing. wow. the arab war, richard nixon said keep anything you want to and we got the arab embargo which really hurt. second, you say you are pro-life. i was stationed in germany.

trump complained that germany would buy our food because by german law, chocolate bars can only have three ingredients in them. american chocolate wouldn't do that. you can get american beer over there, but by german law. the reason i say this, i've called twice about the wall street journal having pesticides causing autism. if you don't mind, don't want to get into chocolate so much, pretty broad reaching tariffs that can affect our european allies. katrina? >> you begin with nafta, nafta is the original sin in many ways. the left democrats are not

against trade or globalization. millions have been shafted as a result of these trade deals and many have greatly benefited. so i think that needs to be understood as one of the grievances that is driving the selection, covid, and previous elections. i haven't followed the link to 72 and the oil, but i think the bernie sanders wing of the democratic party was right about the impact of these trade deals not just on the economy, but on the workers. they remain the heart and soul, not just the white working class, but the working-class brown, black of the democratic party. host: rich, can you talk a little bit about some of these proposed tariff that president-elect trump has talked about. >> first of all, i think the

most important point is to realize despite the depiction we get from the left and parts of the right, america has just been economically devastated in the last 15, 20 years. we've advanced much further than the e.u. has. they are higher than they are in advanced european countries. that doesn't mean that there aren't pockets of poverty and problems that we have. on trade, manufacturing has become more productive. part of that, advances in technology are a huge part of it as well. we still make a lot of stuff, we just do it with fewer workers. trump does not agree with what i just said and that is why he's talked about tariffs. this is his firm policy stance he took in his election.

he was quite obsessed with it and i think we will see more tariffs and it matters a lot what form they take. sweeping across the board i think that will be quite counterproductive and intentionally destructive. if we are going to have reciprocal tariffs, we are going to do to you what you do to us, that could actually unleash some dealmaking. it could mean that we're not hurting ourselves as much as we would across the board. steel and things like that, they are inputs to u.s. manufacturing. you help the steel industry specific with those tariffs, but you hurt all sorts of other manufacturers. and that is kind of the story i think on tariffs. host: stephen is in pasadena, california on the line for republicans. did morning. caller: thank you.

i am a black american in one of the reasons donald trump won so much black male support as we know what it is like to be railroaded. we've seen the justice department do things we never thought they would do to anybody else. he supposed to be coming to drain the swamp, right? you don't drain the swamp by giving them parties. but hunter biden did, he deserves it. and he already got away with millions of dollars of money laundering that would have tied him to joe biden. he got away with that already. trump took a poll, the majority would not want him to be president. do not pardon hunter biden. that would be bending over for trump. host: any closing remarks you have. >> i think there are many others that could be pardoned, and i wouldn't lift up hunter biden, though i do agree about the human quality of it. i guess i would say we are

analyzing the selection and the weekend after, we are going to learn a lot more. i do hope that trump stays true to his opposition to endless war because i think this country is in rough shape. i know there are a lot of possibility, but the words deplete, the wars don't get us security. we've provided ukrainethat is me corps in one year. i am not an isolationist. i think military spending is out of control and we need security. that is a different force and strength. veterans day is coming up. guest: i think trump was railroaded.