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heuvel. c-span's washington journal is. join the conversation. ♪ >> good morning, it is sunday, november 10, 2024. resident elect donald trump has won the state of arizona, solidifying his electoral college lead with 312 votes. president biden is promising a peaceful transfer of power and

is scheduled to meet with the president elect in the oval on wednesday. it is unclear what will happen with former president trump's many outstanding legal cases and some are suggesting president biden should pardon him. we want to hear your perspective, should biden pardon trump? democrats can call in at (202) 748-8000. republicans at (202) 748-8001. independents can reach us at (202) 748-8002. if you would like to text us, that number is (202) 748-8003. please be sure to include your name and where you are writing in from. if you want to contact us on facebook, it is facebook.com/c-span. one of those calling for president to pardon -- president biden to pardon doesn't elect donald trump comes from the national view.

biden should pardon trump by mark antonio, this was written the day after the election that biden should invite trump to the oval office for the judicial visit. he then goes on to say biden should then move his constitutional authority to pardon donald trump of all pending federal charges and relieve special counsel smith of his duties. he should then ask kathy hochul to pardon trump of the crimes he was convicted of in new york state. a bit more from that article. why is there not a majority of the public chose to -- like it or not, a majority of the public chose to reelect donald trump rate he deserves to enter 25 with the slate wiped clean of the evious era. no good at all will come from a president fulfilling his constitutional duties at home

and abroad under the cloud of criminalcuti. no good whatsoever will come of trump himself ordering the e dertment to drop the charge by crossing a ricon in american lives of self joe biden has not spent m time in office acting like a statement. but a pardon of doldrump would be statesmanlike and such t would go a long way toward ending the cycle of lawai that, if left unchecked, would cause more harm and damage to politics. the white house press secretary was asked on thursday about potential pardons in the last days of the administration, including pardons for not trump but hunter biden. >> is the president considering pardoning officials or people that trump has threatened with legal action.

>> i don't have anything to share on the thought process on pardons. when we have something to share, we will show that. >> does the president have any intention of pardoning him? >> we have been asked that question multiple times, our answer stands which is no. host: a bit more on the articl from the national review calling rmer president trump. gerald ford's pardoning nixon is the president. it was politically unpopular at the time. it enraged nixon's enemies but it was the right thing to do. ford's pardon put a bandage on a festering national wound.

donald trump should accept such a pardon if offered by joe biden. trump should then find a way to, at least rhetorically, extend an olive branch to the outgoing resident. here is a portion of president ford's speech to the nation in september of 1974, on his decision to pardon his predecessor, richard nixon. >> i deeply believe in equal justice for all americans. the law, whether human or divine, is no respecter of persons. the law is a respecter of reality. the facts as i see them are that a former president of the united states, instead of enjoying equal treatment with any other citizen accused of violating the

law would be cruelly and excessively penalized, either in preserving the presumption of his innocence or in obtaining a speedy determination of his guilt. in order to repay a legal debt to society. ugly passions would again be aroused. and our people would again be polarized in their opinions. and the credibility of our free institutions of government would again be challenged at home and abroad. in the end, the cards might well hold that richard nixon has been denied due process and the verdict of history would even more be inconclusive with respect to those charges arising

out of the period of his presidency of which i am presently aware. but, it is not the ultimate fate of richard nixon that most concerns rate. though surely it deeply troubles every decent and every compassionate person. my concern is the immediate future of this great country. host: now to your comments on whether or not biden should pardon trump. on facebook, matthew crawley says agreed, 's the will of the people and it is a smart move politically for democrats. the more they prosecute tru, the more support he gets. and then magic maga says what crimes did he do again that he needs a pardon for? the way i see it, the democrats need a pardon for falsifying charges against him.

vincent in gaithersburg, maryland, on the line for republicans. good morning, vincent. caller: good morning. it's getting more difficult for me to watch and observe c-span. you folks and cnn, abc, cbs, etc., first of all, you don't go straight to the point. host: do you have any idea whether or not biden should pardon trump? caller: biden doesn't need to pardon trump because trump's cases have already been thrown out. and they held these cases -- they charged him two years ago with these bogus cases. and they have been thrown out. host: what about his felony convictions, do you think biden should pardon him for those? caller: when i say cases, i'm talking about the felonies that have been thrown out along with the rogue attorney, jack

smith. host: i don't think that is accurate. let's go to mike in montana on our line for independents. good morning, mike. caller: good morning. biden can pardon trump and then trump can pardon biden. it's ridiculous. trump didn't do anything wrong. he is probably one of the most perfect presidents we have ever had. that wouldn't be justice. justice would be to not pardon but to prosecute people like the cuomo brothers, adam schiff, and then i want to get back -- for real justice -- let's get back

all of the stimulus money that was printed. if we can print as much money as we want, why we need the irs? it's ridiculous. let's clawback all these insider-trading firm nancy pelosi's -- from nancy pelosi's squeaky clean group. host: i want to hear a couple more folks perspective on whether or not biden should pardon trump. let's hear from tyrone in new york on our line for democrats. do you think biden should pardon trump? tyrone, are you there? caller: yes, i'm here. hello? no, he shouldn't. they should not pardon him, mainly because the democratic party needs to grow a spine. you have had five instances where these people are saying it doesn't matter if he gives them a pardon.

some of these people want to see us grind to dust. they don't want us to exist. with this mindset, you want to pardon this guy, the same guy who has the type of ideology where they want to get rid of the democratic party. they don't want us to exist. if he pardons him, it's not going to settle anything. it's only going to embolden these people to do worse. host: let's hear from rob in michigan. on our line for independents. good morning. caller: on the subject at hand, biden should issue a pardon. it establishes three things. it becomes biden's legacy, he won't be remembered for anything else. he will be the man that said let's bring the country back

together and let's start healing. the second thing it accomplishes , trump remains a felon, a convicted felon who received a pardon. they can no longer challenge his convictions. the third thing, the argument is that -- having selected a candidate, her own party rejected with zero votes when she ran in the primary in 2020. it's a way for him to put a parting jab at the dnc. host: what about the state level prosecutions going on in new york and georgia? what do you think should happen there? caller: i think they should utilize -- he should utilize whatever political power he has and say let's quash this. let's get back to the business

of running the country and stop the banana republic faith of prosecutions. host: carol is in missouri on our line for republicans. what do you think, carol? should biden pardon trump? caller: i think that he should because the democrats are the one that caused all the troubles, putting him there in the first place. have they ever looked at each case to see exactly what he's done? they have made up stuff. they have charged him with stuff that the democrats have done. the democrats are going crazy. they set off -- said all kinds of stuff. the democrats have not gone for anything. but trump just opens his mouth can because he's so successful and because he changed the country, obama said he was going

to change the country. and he sure did. host: what do you think would be the reaction if biden pardons trump? caller: well, what do you think the reaction would be? host: from the country. caller: i just think that it would be good for biden to do it. the only thing they've talked about is kill. you can watch every show on fox, cnn and biden those on about kill. they have done nothing but try to destroy him. that's exactly what they've done. host: let's go to a c that we receive via text from kristin in portland, maine. iteems apparent that trump is going to get away with erything concerning his involvement on january 6, and

stealing secrements anyway. doing him a rd would mean that donald trump is acknowledging wrongdoing. i'm not sure he would accept a pardon. let's hear from jane in louisiana on our line for democrats. good morning. caller: hello. host: do you think biden should pardon trump? caller: absolutely not. host: why not? caller: particularly the documents situation at mar-a-lago, it is very possible that he had tried to endanger our security by trying to sell these things. we will never know exactly what the special prosecutor knows, if he gets pardon. the georgia case with election interference is a singular case that needs to be at least

prosecuted in court. it's the nastiest form of manipulation. republicans know how to manipulate. the frog report cases have already been judged guilty as has the sexual assault. host: i want to read more from the national review article calling on president biden to pardon president elect trump mark and tanya writes i'm not ive ough to think a partisan ncorill not be part of our lives in the coming weeks, mohs and years. but a new coming president serves a fresh start and a

gracious and honorable approach to a peaceful transfer of power. trump did not give his predecessor that courtesy the last time around. that is no reason that biden ought not rise above revenge to the level of statesmen. politico says say goodbye to trump's legal cases. the criminal candidate will now effectively be his own judge and jury. donald trump did not just beat kamala harris, he beat the system that tried to put him in jail. he was already the first former president to ever be charged and convicted of felonies. now he has become the first convicted felon to ever win a presidential election. his victory guarantees he will never face serious legal accountability for an avalanche of alleged wrongdoing. trump's imminent return to the white house shattered years of work by special counsel jack smith to convict trump for his attempt to divert the 2020 election and for the stockpile

of classified documents he kept at his florida estate. it halts the prosecution he is facing in georgia for his 2020 election plot as well. it almost certainly allows trump to postpone any sentence on his conviction for covering up hush money in 2016. -- he might have faced without the legal force built of the oval office. let's get back to your calls. robert is in chesterfield, virginia on our line for independents. good morning. caller: good morning. it would be another big mistake that biden would make pardon him. biden made a big mistake keeping the borders open, that's why they lost the election. another reason they lost, i can't believe the people who bought into that stuff would just suck it in.

what biden should do, he has the power to do it. charge him with treason because that is what he committed. put him up against the wall and execute him. host: ok, we will not talk about executions here. ray is on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i don't expect it to happen but i think it would be a wonderful thing if it happened. i think there would be some outrage on both sides. you can also pardon hunter at the same time. i think in the long run, it would bring the country more together. i remember as a kid when gerald ford pardoned nixon, it was almost seen as -- it is almost seen as universally the right thing to do. we seem to be at each other's throats and i think that is a terrible thing and people don't get along anymore.

i think this would go a long way to help the healing of the country. host: ron is in alton, illinois on our line for immigrants. good morning. -- democrats. good morning. caller: know, i don't think he should pardon him. he should be held accountable for all of his deeds. democrats are too nice. they play too nice for politics. do you think trump would pardon him? no, he would not. trump lied about the people in springfield, ohio. was he held accountable for that lie? no. he gets a chance to walk away, he gets a mulligan, he gets a chance to walk away from everything that he does. no, do not pardon him. pardon hunter. that's what i would do. host: parker is in jeffersonville, indiana on the

line for independents. good morning, barbara. caller: i think biden should not pardon trump. trump did those crimes and needs to do his time. what makes him think he is more special, he is a former president and was convicted of those crimes. they need to be held a combo for what they have done. they ruined my life. they can make fun of me, they can call me names. they are disgusting pigs. host: michael is in ashburn, virginia on the line for republicans. good morning, michael. caller: good morning. i think that biden will pardon trump. it's the outcome that i would prefer.

-- it's not the outcome that i would prefer. i would prefer he goes back to court and is completely exonerated. someone brings a lawsuit against you, you have to decide if it is worth it for the insurance company to go to court or if they just settle. most people when you look at a lawsuit, it swings guilt back to them. i would prefer if you went back to court, went through the process again and had the charges completely overturned. host: michael, there are quite a few cases. there are the special counsel cases regarding interference in the 2020 election as well as the documents cases and the new york cases on the hush money trial as well as fraud and then there is the georgia case. what do you think it would mean

for former president elect trump to actually go back through all of those cases? caller: i think it's the right thing to do. i really think it is the right thing to do. i don't think it's going to happen because i think trump, i believe biden is going to pardon him because he wants to validate all of these charges. like i said, settle. everything will be settled and nobody is ever really going to know what happened. i think it should always go through the process. because i think a lot of people see now that people don't really trust in the justice system anymore and that's the problem. host: don is in ground block, michigan -- grand blanc, michigan. caller: good morning to c-span and america.

that election broke my heart, seeing that the country put trump back in office. host: do you think that biden should pardon trump? caller: that's a hard question. at this point, we know trump is above the law. pardoning him makes no difference, he will pardon himself. can biden pardon a criminal in a state case? or can he only pardon him for federal cases? host: he could only pardon him for federal cases. but the national review article called for president biden to then direct the states like new york governor kathy hochul to perhaps pardon him as well in some of those state charges.

caller: the republicans always say states rights. biden feels that -- if biden feels that criminal deserves a pardon, give him a pardon. right now, i think the country is doomed for the next four years. host: last week, minnesota governor tim walls, who was running with harris as the vice presidential candidate, talked about a path forward and finding common ground with people that disagreed with him after he and vice president harris lost the presidential election. >> i will say and acknowledge this. about 1.5 million of our fellow minnesotans voted for the other side this election. and while there might not be a place in our state for the most extreme elements of that agenda, there should be a place in our

politics for everyone to be heard. [applause] i think sometimes we can be quick to judge people who don't agree with us. to assume they act of cruelty or fear or self-interest. i don't think that kind of judgment is helpful right now. and i don't think it is right. i think we ought to swallow, and this is me talking about myself, swallow a little bit of pride and try harder to find common ground with our neighbors who did not vote like we did this election. maybe we won't agree on every issue. maybe we won't agree on any issue. maybe when the campaign signs come down, we all get a little break from the rhetoric and the tv ads and the fundraising tax, i'm sorry about those. [laughter] maybe when we get a little break from this campaign that we are in, we will be able to look at each other and see not enemies but neighbors. and maybe we will be able to sit

down over coffee or a diet mountain dew and just talk. talk about our kids, talk about the lives we want to build for them. talk about the things that really matter. how we treat each other. how we look out for each other. and how we support each other in difficult times. for my part, i'm going to try even harder to do that as governor. nobody, not the dflers, not republicans, nobody has a monopoly on good intentions are good ideas. and now that this election is behind us, i will try harder to keep an open mind, open heart and listen to folks who don't support me or my policies. to work with everyone in the legislature to see compromise and common ground. that's how we come back together. after such a long time spent fighting each other. host: back to your calls. penelope is in indiana on our line for democrats. good morning, penelope. melvin, go ahead. -- penelope, go ahead.

caller: i put in the wrong number, i'm trying to change it. i'm waiting to put the number back up here. host: ok. debbie is in rochester, new york on our line for independents, good morning. caller: good morning. i think that trump should go straight to jail. i can't believe all of these people that are saying that joe biden should pardon trump. pardon him for what? he needs to go to jail. and all of these stupid people, it is really, really the shock of my life to hear these people think that that man is acceptable to be the president of the united states! what the hell is wrong with people? host: john is in california on our line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning, how are

you doing? host: fine. caller: i don't think biden should pardon trump at all. but the fact is trump didn't do anything wrong. if you people think paying somebody to keep their mouth shut for having sex with them is against the law, you are low information people. you should look at the law. host: ok. the new york post article about that case in particular with the headline, judge in trump's hush money trial considers tossing island the after election win. the manhattan judge who oversaw donald trump's oshman a criminal trial is expect it to announce next week, that would be this week, if the president elects historic felony conviction will stand. sentencing has been delayed by more than four months to come after the election and gave

himself until next tuesday to decide if the conviction should be tossed. trump's overwhelming election win will further embolden his legal team to make sure sentencing never happens. that sentencing -- eve is on the line for democrats. good morning, e. -- eve. caller: good morning. i think h to the e double hockey sticks for trump. trump should be under the jail. he should not be president. who are these people who say that he should be pardoned? for what? some people go into the store and pick up something and they get put in jail. this man has done everything. i would never forgive the fact that he said the saudi's gave

him a lot of money and he did not care about jamaal khashoggi being chopped up and put in a suitcase. i say please, get a life. host: michael in linden, virginia, sent us a text message. it is a risk for the president to pardon the president elect. i imagine the preselect rejecting the pardon and blaming the prosecution on the president and the democratic political party, fueling the flames. or the pardon could be accepted with a band-aid. another text message, we already read that one. let's hear from david in west virginia on our line for independents. good morning, david. caller: good morning. president trump does not need a pardon. the american people, the majority of them have already pardon him. it's called an election, it's called a landslide election. he won the popular vote and he won the electoral college.

let it play out in court and congress needs to have a special prosecutor look into the warfare, the legal warfare that he did to trump. if biden wanted harris to be president, he could make her president today. he could resign and she would be the 47th president. trump would be the 48th president. she would serve two months approximately. the ninth president only served 30 days. have a nice day. host: mark is in ohio on our line for republicans. good morning. caller: probably for the good of the country, he probably should pardon trump. but personally, i hope he doesn't because i believe that all of these cases that were brought against him were political. that's pretty much what i have to say about that.

host: david is in san francisco on the line for independents. good morning. caller: i am impressed by a couple of the callers. i was going to remind, pardons are an omission of guilt. -- admission of guilt. that is in the legal sense. a pardon comes after somebody begs forgiveness. has trump admitted that he is guilty in order to deserve a pardon or has trump begged our forgiveness? i think it is clear that trump is nuts and over the wall. as to vance, you room berhow -- remember how trump ran to florida and became a citizen of florida with felonies?

the state of florida allowed him to vote. i would say that if trump -- if biden had his guts about him or congress had their guts about them, every delegate from florida from the electoral vote, they committed fraud by allowing his boat into the pool. -- vote into the pool. host: cheryl is in florida on the line for democrats. caller: i don't think he should be pardoned. it's horrible what our country has come to. he will put more criminals in the white house. thank you for your time. host: stephanie is in irving, texas on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: hi. i don't think biden has a shred

of decency as the pardon president trump. but he should. he started all of those false allegations and false lawsuits. so, he should. but i don't think he has a shred of these and see to do it. thank you. -- of decency to do it. thank you. host: one of the outstanding cases is in new york. it could determine whether trump pays $500 million in civil judgments as president. this is a story from the washington examiner. president elect donald trump is expected to be relieved from his criminal prosecution as he makes his return to the oval office pending appeals in similar cases might be his only hope to break free from more than a half $1 billion in civil judgments against him. trump is poised to owe more than $500 million in penalties due to new york's democratic attorney general alyssa james's civil fraud case and two civil lawsuits brought by e. jean

carroll. james made general comments about trump's election victory on wednesday. let's listen to some of those comments. >> i congratulate the president elect, donald trump. and if possible, we will work with his administration. but we will not compromise our values. or our integrity. or our principles. we did not expect this result. but we are prepared to respond to this result. my office has been preparing for several months, because we've been here before. we have faced this challenge before. and we used the rule of law to fight back. and we are prepared to fight back once again.

because, as the attorney general of this great state, it is my job to protect and defend the rights of new yorkers and the rule of law. and i will not shrink from that responsibility. host: one of the comments we have received on x, i know i will lose respect for the law and this country if he gets a pass. our question this hour, should bin pardon president elect trump? you can also reach us if you want to text us on (202) 748-8003. our line for democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. let's hear from darlene in louisiana on our line for independents. caller: definitely know.

he is a player and he played the american people. he is just a player. definitely a no. like the man said, we need to grow a spine. and a definite no on that you crazy sickos. host: what do you think it would do to the country if he enters office with these charges over his head and the convictions? caller: i don't care because he ruined the country anyway. it's already unlawful. he has cruelty following him and what he did for january 6, he got all of those people to do the dirty work for him. that's what he did. host: let's hear from bobby in mayfield, kentucky on our line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning. host: do you think biden

should pardon trump? caller: yes i do. yes, i do. i watched on national tv, the capitol police opened the doors and let those people in. we don't know if they were republicans or democrats. we don't actually know. host: a couple of folks have mentioned the january 6 descendants. the new york times reports some of them are already angling for pardons from trump. he said he would grant clemency to some of those who took part in the assault on the u.s. capitol nearly four years ago. the consequences of donald trump's victory start with the likelihood that the cases against him will sputter out but can also extend to the cases of the hundreds of supporters who

are being or have been prosecuted for storming the u.s. capitol on january 6, 20 31. mr. trump repeatedly promised to pardon some of the 1500 people charged in connection with january 6, sometimes suggesting his clemency might extend to the leaders of far-right groups like the proud boys and other descendants who assaulted police officers. allen is in wilmington, delaware on our line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. absolutely not should he be pardoned. when you look at it, he's been pardoned by 70 plus million people who voted for him. and having biden pardon him in addition to that is absolutely ludicrous. he has done i don't know how many different crimes he should have been in prison for.

and the fact that the question is even asked should biden pardon him, absolutely not. and biden should not, he should as somebody said grow a spine. he should absolutely not be pardon. host: kevin is in massachusetts on the independent line. caller: good morning. i am an independent but i say absolutely not. to do that solidified that he is -- solidifies that he is above the law and it should not be allowed. they reached out to him repeatedly and repeatedly, up until a year and a half

later, he still has the document. that's why they did the investigation, his own people who were working for him said that he told them to hide the documents. and that's why they came after them. for january 6, he sat there. i heard somebody say they opened the doors. maybe some of them did open the doors. but not all of the people working at the capital opened the doors. it got out of control his own people, republicans contacted or tried to contact him and said you need to stop, you need to call these people off. the people working in the white house said he ignored them and what they told him. he was watching on tv and took three hours while people were running for their lives. absolutely not.

the cases will go away, the federal cases will go away. those other cases, absolutely not. you cannot tell our young people that we have equal justice under law and yet if you get to be the president and you commit all kinds of crimes, well, we are going to forgive you. host: kevin mentioned the documents case that special counsel jack smith was pursuing. there is another article in politico that says jackson has taken the first steps to halt president trump's prosecution, citing the unprecedented circumstance of the crumbled defendant being elected as president. special counsel jack smith has postponed a series of deadlines in the washington, d.c. criminal case against donald trump for seeking to subvert between 20 elections. the move friday was smith's first of public acknowledgment that the case cannot continue in

light of trump's imminent return to power. u.s. district court judge granted smith's request for trump's postponement. he gave him a little more than a week to decide on his first step. smith acknowledged trump's victory tuesday has upended the case, prompting prosecutors to ask for more time to determine how to proceed. patrick is in canton, georgia on our line for republicans. good morning, patrick. >> thank you. it is a hard answer for me because personally, i think if it wasn't donald trump, he would not have been brought up on these legal cases. but i think for the pardon thing , i think the time to have done that would have been 2-3 weeks before the election. joe biden could have pardoned donald trump and kamala harris could have taken the credit for

that. maybe that would have swung some of the trumper's over to her side and she could have won the election. the other thing i want to say was about the documents case. it's amazing to me, people call in and say he should go to jail for the document case. joe biden got away with having documents in his possession for years and nobody wants to talk about that. i think it is a hard call. i don't think it is going to happen. i don't believe it will happen. like i said, the time to have done it would have been before the election so kamala harris could have taken credit for that. you very much. host: julie is in lafayette, indiana on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: i don't think you should pardon criminal activity, no matter who does it. and i don't think the president should be any exception or the law doesn't mean anything. and as far as the documents go, it wasn't the fact that both of

them had documents. it was the fact that one of them refused to give the documents back after repeated requests. that's the part that some people that worship the guy want to glaze over. honestly, we have elected a thug. fine, you can't prosecute? don't pardon. wait four years and pick up where we left off. because that is absolutely criminal and it cannot be ignored. that's all i have to say. host: in washington, d.c. on the line for independent, good morning. -- independents, good morning. caller: if we believe that the law is level and for all people, then he absolutely should be charged. black people make up 10% of this population but they make up 70%

of those in prison. when you have a man who says find me 12,000 votes, we have that on tape, then you have a man who authorizes a lynch mob. for people who don't understand that, they brought a rope and a scalpel to the white house to hang his own vice president and pelosi and he did nothing about that. and when you have the same person decide that he is above the law and there is nothing we can do, and you want to validate that by giving him a pardon, you cannot tell anyone in this country that they should abide by the law. he should absolutely be put in jail. personally, he should have been put in jail by what he did with covid. we lost a million people.

i heard 700,000 of them, trump could have saved, had he been at least an honest person about what was going on. this country has forgotten those folks. we have lost a lot of souls and he is responsible for those. that alone is reason for him to be locked up. host: edward is in wisconsin on our line for republicans. good morning, edward. caller: good morning. i would like to say democrats amaze me. everybody -- by every political standard, hillary should have gotten 10 years in prison. they let joe biden off with the same crime and yet he is still president. host: edward, do you think biden should pardon trump? caller: no, i think he should

fight all these bogus claims. the people in january 6 who stormed the capital are my heroes. everyone knows that election was stolen. host: julio is in brooksville, florida on the line for democrats. caller: good morning. letitia james should be barred. jack smith should be sued by trump. for the false accusations he put on him. and for people to come out and say biden is god and he's doing great, look at the things he has done. is he going to pardon hunter? you bet he will. i was a democrat but i am garbage now. he called half my family and half my friends garbage. that turns all of us into garbage. and any democrat that thinks he

is great by calling you garbage, you are garbage. have a great day. host: julio mentioned hunter biden. former president trump said on thursday he would consider pardoning hunter biden if he wins the need 24 election. i wouldn't take it off the books, trump told the conservative radio host, hugh hewitt in an interview. see, unlike joe biden, what they have don to me where they gone after me so viciously, hunter bas bn a bad boy. all yoto do see the lapt i happen to think it is bad for our country. i could have gone after hillary. i could have gone after hillary very easily. when they say lock of, what did i do, i always say take it easy, relaxed, we are winning. i could have had her put in jail and i decided i didn't want to do that. i thought it would look terrible.

that is on hunter biden. let's hear from rich in new york on our line for independents. good morning. caller: hello. i'm amazed. i'm amazed at the ignorance of the people in this country. this man is the biggest scammer /schemer who has taken a breath of air. it's amazing these people won't let him go. is he above the law? obviously they think so. i can't believe these people, they can't see through this man. host: do you think that president biden should former -- pardon the president elect? caller: that just tells everyone he is above the law. why is he above the law? he's not above the law, he's a man. he's just like anyone else, he just got a title as the president of the united states.

the man is only a man. by letting this man go, i'm ashamed. i'm ashamed to say i'm an american. i have nothing else to say. this country disgusts me. host: thomas is in california on our line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning, how are you? thank you for taking my call. and thanks for c-span for all of the things that you do. there are a few points i would like to make. there was a call from san francisco. the caller said, he talked about how people earn forgiveness and pardons. caller: before you respond to the -- host: before you respond to the other callers, do you think biden should pardon president

elect trump? caller: i think so. i say yes to that question. definitely. what we should realize is that people knew of all of these problems and they still voted convincingly for the president-elect. tim walz made a very good point. and we should realize as a nation that and i for nine -- an eye for an eye will leave everybody blind. let's just put this country back together. this country is bigger than one party and anyone president or organization. to be honest, if trump were to lose this election, there was never going to be peace.

i'm pretty sure we would not be this peaceful after tuesday. let's be honest, this country needs healing. it's about time we all stop and take a deep breath and think about what he said. he said to behave. that's what i want to say. thank you. host: roseanne is in san diego, on the line for democrats. good morning, roseann. caller: thank you. no, biden should not pardon trump because trump deserves to go down in history as the criminal that he obviously is. he made a lot of crimes against the people of america. and even though he won't be tried, he won't be convicted, he won't be sentenced, he should go down in history for being what he is, which is not honest.

i think that biden should treat trump exactly the way trump treated biden four years ago, which was pretty, pretty nasty. i think biden has gone overboard, to be nice. he doesn't need to be. trump should have already been in jail. he could have won the election anyway and governed from prison. he does not deserve a pardon at all. that would be a betrayal to every single one of us who cares about this country. so, that's all i have to say. thank you. host: lewis is in new jersey on the line for independents. good morning. caller: good morning. if i was trump, i wouldn't take the pardon because all of these

cases are going to be overturned. i watched the appeal on c-span. and those judges attacked the prosecutor. as far as the felonies, with that crazy lady, the judge gave unconstitutional instructis, telling the jury that if one person finds him guiy,n a charge, tn he will be found guilty on specific charges. 34 felonies. they found him guilty of 34 felonies in less than a day. please. come on. and trump doesn't think he's above the law. thank you. host: surely in tennessee on the line for republicans. caller: good morning. some people may disagree with me. but it seems like the room with

the exception of a few callers -- the route with the exception of a few callers, it seems like the root is causing a lot of animosity and infighting. i have a democrat -- had a democrat friend of mine cussed me out because trump won. personally, i think that whether people think trump is guilty or not, in order to put the past behind us, trump should go ahead and get pardoned by biden. but i also think trump should pardon hunter. he just lost a brother. he hit rock bottom. he messed up. i think that if biden pardons trump and trump does pardon

hunter, regardless of what anybody else thinks about it, and all the dust settles, it's going to let this country start healing moving forward and take the vicious political polarization out of this and let's try to move forward. get our economy back together and move forward to some simple governing. -- civil governing. that's my feeling on that. host: john is in arlington heights, illinois, on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you doing? i love c-span. some people might think c-span, they would watch it or whatever because it's not exciting. but i disagree. i think c-span is good, it is good to see that c-span has jokes.

this is a guy, you don't pardon people. nixon resigned. me type of active attrition, you don't just get pardoned. if he had lost, he would've went to jail. it's not like the president of the united states can youth the government to send soldiers to donald trump's house. this post on in a legal way in georgia, in florida, which was a red state. the prosecutor went to the people, he was indicted by a grand jury of his peers and what should happen, it from falafel would have happened is jack smith that went and got that case in florida reinstated. so trump is guilty. and when trump get out of office, restart it.

but even if you pardon him it doesn't matter because trump is going to commit more crimes. he's not going to stop committing crimes, that is who he is, he is a criminal. he's going to put more criminals in jail anyway. the whole idea of pardoning donald trump, he doesn't do anything. president biden should pardon his son. if he doesn't, i think that showed a weakness on biden. hunter has never been prosecuted for those crimes. >> we are just about out of time for the segment. we were discussing the national review article suggesting that president biden should pardon president elect donald trump. and after the break we are going to have national abuse editor-in-chief join us along with the nation magazine editorial director and publisher

who will discuss those 2024 election results as well as former president trump's return to the white house. we will be right back. this is c-span.org results. the cumbrian's of coverage of the 2024 campaign results. the final electoral college breakdown in the presidential race and see which states each candidate carries. dive into our interactive maps to explore the outcomes in the senate, house and governors race. the final balance of power in congress, plus watch exceptions and confession features on demand anytime. stay up--date with c-span, your unfiltered view of politics at c-span.org results. tonight on q&a, former domestic

policy adviser to president carter and u.s. ambassador to the european union under president clinton. he shares his book the art of diplomacy in which he discusses his career and the impact that civil rights movement had on him. black students are sitting in. google this, that is when the sit in started in queens and durham. and i said why are they doing this? what universe do you live in? it's because they can't be served. and it was like somebody lifted the veil on me and i saw the world in a very different way. i didn't question it. i became very active in the civil rights movement and when i was of president carter, we supported affirmative action for black contractors.

so these kinds of transformative events when you are young can sometimes carry over into your career and they certainly did for me. his book "the art of diplomacy tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern on q&a. you can listen to cumin day and all of our podcasts on the free c-span now radio at the c-span bookshelf podcast feed makes it easy for you to listen to all of c-span podcasts feature nonfiction books in one place. you can discover new offers and ideas. each week we are making it convenient for you to listen to multiple episodes with critically acclaimed authors discussing history, biographies, current events and culture. from our signature programs on the free c-span now mobile video at or wherever your podcas,

and on our website, c-span.org podcasts. washington journal continues. host: welcome back. to discuss the results of the 2024 election, i'm joined now by rich lowry, editor-in-chief of the national review as well as katrina, editorial director and publisher of the nation. the to you both. i'll ask you both to start, did the election results surprise you, and why or why not? >> so they surprised in the sense that i believe that there would be a surge of women protesting the rolling back of women's rights. i think of reproductive rights as an economic issue, a kitchen table issue. that surge actually happened in 2022 when women really came out

in strength after dobbs supreme court decision and the independence broke for democrats. why i wasn't surprised is i'm a bernie sanders democrat and i believe can speaking the people's economic concerns. where they are. and you can see the anger in the country, you can see that this was a change election, but it was not one cause, but a lot of people were seeking answers to the economic troubles, pain in their life, to the inflation. and instead of running with a compelling economic, populist, progressive message, harris ran not to the base, but tried to carve out the independent suburban women with a liz cheney campaign. when you saw that, three days spent with liz cheney, you could think of what else she might

have done in those three days. so i have to say ask some edits a magazine which opposes some of the trade deals which are the original sin in so many ways, the industrialized part of this country which enraged workers, i think that much more laserlike focus on the economy, on the change election would make a difference. there's not one cause, the numbers are pretty strong. i don't believe trump has a mandate down valid. we saw initiatives that were certainly counterterrorist policies, and some senators. so i wouldn't say if it is 2%, it is a huge mandate, of the popular vote, you can't question that, in the electoral obviously wet the president, but i don't disagree clicking through the reckoning could be had about the kind of campaign they ran. host: rich, what is your take?

>> surprised by the sweep of it, but i wasn't surprised that he would win. a lot of conditions obviously were in his favor, and people around him, insult had this theory that you could go to the center on entitlements and on trade, and go further right on culture and you can broaden and deepen and diversify your coalition and that nearly ended up being screwed. aunt donald trump now whether you like it or not, clearly defining political figure of our era. i think everyone has a point, everyone is to blame on that side, but ultimately it all goes to joe biden. he picked kamala harris as vice president to begin with. he didn't govern as a unifier, as a moderate or a centrist or someone who is competent, and then he made this catastrophically irresponsible, selfish decision last year to run again when he is obviously

in decline and everyone could see it. all the polling showed it. the democrats in the polling said it. the and much of the democratic elite with some exceptions went along with this absurd fiction that he could serve another five years as president. the rest of this year and then four additional years. and that fiction really fell apart in the first debate, and then they were stopped. they can have another process, it would have been difficult at that point with percent approval rating, and then the choice is kamala harris. she wasn't confident, she wasn't creative, and she said all these things in 2019, 2020 that were just not survivable in a general election, and she had to back off all those, making herself seem insincere and phony, and then i think in part as a function of that, she had to further back off of everything that happened the last 3.5 years, because that would be totally unsustainable. the choice to say i'm a bit out

of the loop, i wasn't involved in everything for i was the last person in the room and i was responsible, that is what she did. she has no separation from joe biden, she hugged his policies as a president with 40% approval rating. i was just going to say, i have talked to donald trump he wouldn't of one if joe biden at 50% approval, but joe biden was a 40% approval. guest: i do think that the original sin was president five and going back on his now that he wouldn't run a second term. i do think many of his policies. listen, he broke with a kind of neoliberal consensus that had dominated washington for years, whether it was bill clinton or george h w. it's time had come. and i think the investments he in this country, the ira badly

named will be showing up in these communities in these next months and years. and i think the kamala harris campaign, again, the alliance with neoconservatives and in essence, dissing your base was really key. i don't think of these as recriminations. it is about rethinking where the democratic party, the progressive community is headed. host: i want to listen to a little bit of president elect trump's victory speech on wednesday morning where he laid out some of his visions for america. from: you know we are the party of common sense. we want to have borders, we want to have security, we want to have things be good and safe. we want great education. we want a strong and powerful military and ideally we don't have to use it. for years, we had no wars except we defeated isis. we defeated isis in record time,

but we had no wars. they said he will start a war. i'm not going to start a war, i'm going to stop wars. but this is also a massive victory for democracy and for freedom. together we are going to unlock america's glorious destiny. we are going to achieve the most incredible future for our people. yesterday as i stood at my last stop on the campaign trail, never be doing a rally again, can you believe it? i think we've done 900 rallies approximately, can you imagine? 900. 900 one, something. a lot of rallies. and everybody was sad. many people i said this is our last rally, but now we are going on to something that is far more important is the rallies were used for us to put, to be put in this position where we could really help our country, that is what we are going to do.

post: rich, one of the things that will help president-elect trump achieve that agenda is republican control of the senate and what looks to be, we are still waiting to find out, republican control of the house. what are you expecting in terms of that agenda? guest: well, you've seen some of it out of the box, he had a statement about censorship on social media and the cooperation between the government, the pressure on the government on social media companies to police their content. one, we will see a lot of deregulation, extension of the tax credit energy, unleash the military buildup, and the first time around, the republican senate really influenced him and to block times. now he's a total legend within his party and has an incredible grip across the party. i don't want to say he's going to get whatever he wants, there

are limits. just to that clip, the media coverage of this campaign was so stilted and biased. trump insult the people and he can be harsh and negative. we also can be incredibly positive and optimistic. almost wildly so. and i think one thing that happened in this campaign was occupied the center in important respects. i'm a big pro-lifer, but even if you put that aside, what is the more moderate position? abortion all the way through nine months, four states should decide, and i think some of the states have gone too far and we have to be very careful. just objectively, the more moderate position is trump. they portray him at this radical right winger. all he is saying is that transgender males shouldn't compete in female sports. and 10 years ago and he said that is a right wing position,

people would've thought you are crazy, it is a common sense position. but the democrats went so left on this stuff. and the poor democrats, a couple of them have said don't be quite so out there on that stuff. and they gotten shot at for the democratic chairman in texas had to resign after saying we don't need to go quite so far on all this stuff is he was called a hater. this kind of locks down the boca left, and it feels to a certain segment of people. post: we are getting a bunch of callers coming in. before we get to those calls, i want to ask you about a recent piece that you have in the nation. executive action five and could take. we talked about what trump is likely going to do. what do you think biden should do it his remaining time in office. >> i feel very strong about the futility and the disaster of the

u.s. cuba relations, there are no castro's no kennedys in government. it's a very poor, destroyed country by the pandemic. you could argue some of the country's own policies, but it is in crisis. i think president biden 50 cuba office state terrorism list. i think he could do more. i also think he could look at judicial vacancies really swiftly on that. the pardons, you were talking about hunter biden. well, rich's magazine endorsed giving biden giving hunter biden a pardon. host: do present electron? guest: it is a bylined piece. >> my. federal justice way. host: just for clarity, it was an op-ed in the national review. guest: i respect that distinction, but wrongfully convicted people, those trump

has darted through his career, i think there's quite a bit they could be done for executive action. of course he could get rolled back, but it is a signal. the woke stuff, it is social justice. it is overplayed by the media. the numbers are small, but the most interesting thing about trump i think, he's going to be very disciplined. he's brought in a chief of staff, a woman who shows discipline. he's learned from the first round not to bring in people who are not loyal to him. but the thing that interests me is yesterday, i believe, some called for the withdrawal of u.s. troops from syria. a broken clock can be right twice, i think that is the expression. the idea that he would stop wars, not start wars, which test him. let's see if he can resolve the situation in ukraine, the middle east, or talked about nato in base that. because i think we are a real

dangerous turning point of becoming this militarized country, and support people need in this country is going to evaporate into wars that we don't need. it is not isolationism, it is what is in the interest of america's security, and the biden-harris foreign policy indispensable nations, i think a lot of voters may not be their first issue, but they lloyd -- multiple deployed man in their communities and they are fed up with this idea that we are the policeman of the world. there is an alternative course, and i think that's going to be important. if trump shows the way. host: you're going to be taking your calls. for democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independence, (202) 748-8002. before we get to those calls, listen to a portion of president

biden's remarks in the rose garden on thursday on the peaceful transfer of power. president biden: i was hoping we can later wrest the question about the integrity of the american system. it is honest, it is fair, and it is transparent. and it can be trusted, win or lose. i also hope we can was further respect for all our election workers who took risks at the outset. we should thank them. thank them for staffing voting sites, counting of votes. protecting the very integrity of the election. many of them are volunteers. they do it simply out of love for their country. and as they did, as they did their duty as citizens, i will do my duty as president. i will fulfill my own and honor the constitution. on january 20 we will have a

peaceful transfer of power here in america. post: now to your calls, sandy is in florida on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: how are you? caller: i don't have a question, i just think that biden should let all this go and let trump start new. i think we ought to forget all this garbage of he and she and just move on and do what needs to be done to keep our country safe. and make our country great again. host: so rich, why don't you respond and add any other detail you would like to add regarding that call that was in your magazine as an op-ed for president biden to pardon former president trump. guest: i'm not sure how likely that is. it would not be taken kindly by president trump.

obviously, because there is a suggestion of guilt and a strong application of guilt in a pardon. i think apartment definitely will happen is hunter biden. this would be self lincoln kind of corrupt on a certain level of very understandable on a human level. i think maybe the play that biden is engaged in year is unwinding these investigations and prosecutions so trump doesn't have to go in and do these hugely controversial firings right out of the top and squash these investigations. at the same time, he pardons hunter and hopes that trump prosecutions will be unwound and won't -- out of the water. very speculative, but that host: is my guess. host:katrina, what is your take on the idea of parted -- biden pardoning the president-elect? guest: i think it would rouse

tough spirit in much of the country. there is a strong view that there is accountability and justice is to be done. so i don't see it in the cards. i do see hunter biden for the main reason, human reason. but i certainly don't see biden pardoning trump, and i am not sure. there are a lot of indictments, so i don't see that in the cards. i do, again, come back to the point that biden could give pardons to a lot of wrongfully convicted people for languishing in our prisons. host: clearwater, florida, line for democrats. good morning. caller: so i think trump, the message from the trump campaigns very effective because the election really came -- became about lower propensity voters, lower information voters and the attack on trans and the migrants

are eating the cats and dogs, democrats are communists that are trying to reel babies. i think what is more important is that kid that came into the trump era as toddlers have had 10 years of this. 10 years of their parents fighting. their neighbors fighting about trump. every day, everything is about trump, and that is going to continue and continue. soto's 15-year-old could have been so damaged by their damaged parents talking about their idolatry or hate of trump is going to be amplified. and what is going to happen to those children? guest: children are resilient creatures. my daughter is about to have a baby. that baby will see trump, trump, trump. i'm not sure trump is going to

be the big rallies. he's going to have to govern. governing tenney boring. will he not govern, that is a sin, too. i want to pick up on what you said about education. there's a lot of talk about social mobility. this country is failing on social mobility, a lot of divide between educated and uneducated voters. what about apprenticeships in this country. good jobs. not everyone has a four year degree. it's not about second-class citizenship, it's about a reality that this world is facing. and i think the jobs, unemployment, social mobility is a critical factor for a civilized society. let me just say the party of common sense, the idea of deporting 11 million people, that is insane for economic reasons, obviously for moral reasons. it's going to cause inflation, all kinds of factors. it is not common sense. i agree that we need a party

that pays attention to the economic struggles, pain and ambition of millions, but they are going to have to hundred and and do some real work and not just rallies if that is going to happen. host: senator bernie sanders was espousing similar views on x and wrote it should come as no g surprise that the democratic party which has abandoned working-class people would find the working-class has abandoned them. first it was the whiteorki class, now it is latino and ack rkers as well. democratic leadership defends the status quond the american people are angry and want ch and they are right. will the big-money money interests well paid csuant to consult the democratic party learn any of your lessons fm this disastrous campaign? do they detand the pain and political alienation that tends of millions of americans are experiencing? guest: amen.

host: wisconsin, line for independence. good morning. caller: so i've got a nothing both keith of information, a critical error democrats made. in 2020, 40 million people were losing sleep that night over there student loans voted for joe biden because he promised not only to campus student loans, but to return bankruptcy to student loans. he did neither of those things. he faked it. interestingly, it was a billionaire liberal elite who whispered in nancy pelosi's ear and got nancy pelosi to turn against his student loan cancellation initiative. that's 40 million people who put biden into office who, completely abandoned and ignored. and more importantly, the dnc has taken to return to bankruptcy protections out of the party platform. this is not something that i

would imagine a friend of lynn rothchild, a billionaire manhattan social person like catherine might understand, but i do understand that rich, you wrote an article calling for the return of ankara please. host: let's not attack our guests. also, her name is katrina. trina, i will let you respond firkin follow-up with rich. guest: do loans, something the nation has supported beyond what is on the table. i believe they were republican stops to it. you can be moved as effectively as the democrats wanted it to be. the issue of bankruptcy is something senator elizabeth warren has barely put the needle on and it is very important for people who live paycheck to paycheck, week to week, to have a bankruptcy possibility is not a great solution. but it is real. just again, the come back to

bernie sanders, the connection to working people. you can throw around rothchild, connection to working people or something that any ordinary person, any person can develop as it is part of their -- so bernie sanders a summer lee endorsed in 2016. i think he is an older person now, but still feisty and scrappy. we need to find a new bernie sanders of their generation, whether it is down ballot in states, who will see mobility as a serious issue and three class concerns and the working-class of all kinds with they did it. host: rich, i would love to hear your thoughts on this argument about what happened with democrats and working-class voters, and also what, if anything you think the president-elect might do on stew loans. guest: yeah. so i do not recall that article

the caller attributed to me. i have a total different interpretation. biden was obsessed with doing this. a major spending program that you have been passed through congress, but he was so determined to do it that and repeatedly attempted these lawless executive actions to forgive student loans. these are loans that people took out and should have to repay. it is a message to all the people who don't have four year degrees and this, and have to payroll and plane for this -- play a role in paying for this, that they don't matter as much as people went to college. i agree with katrina when she was talking about apprenticeships earlier. a lot of people, the political elite, they might think of their own kids. this is someone with a backpack going to dartmouth. a lot go into trades, honest days work, and they should be

respected. we don't do enough to do that. bernie and his interpretation of , i think of the bernie sanders of 15, 20 years ago, to the exclusion of a racial or woke concerns, skeptical of open borders, that approach would be much better for democrats than the one they have now. but the fact is biden was as far left as you possibly be on the economics given the constraints that he had been congress. it wasn't popular, it didn't work. inflation more than anything else sank him and kamala harris. but the woke issues are just a killer. again, there's a reason kamala harris gained in a couple groups. white college graduates and seniors. democrats are becoming, emphasis on becoming, much more than an affluent, white party.

and when you tell people that you are ok and you support biological males competing in female sports, doesn't matter if it is not happening very much, if you can't say you oppose that a lot of people are going to think you are out of touch and completely crazy. the ad that hurt her most was the one heading her on that issue and she could never compellingly respond. host: i want to stay with you for a text message we received from sue in oregon, ohio that says i would like to know what would happen to jd vance's senate seat now that he will be vice president. guest: interesting question. i believe the republican governor gets to a point a replacement, and there has been jockeying for it. i think vivek ramaswamy more than a trump position, i'm guessing he would very much want that senate seat. and if trump picks up the phone and calls mike dewine, there is a strong chance he could get it. guest: it was crushing to see

sherrod brown, a very decent, longtime senator from ohio go down. i believe he's run three times for senate, but this was the first during a presidential election. and of course, trump running. he was someone who cared deeply for the working-class, stood for dignity and understood his state, and i think we need more sherrod brown's, and rich, you are real smart, but the whole drive on the trends issue is gemmed up between large extent. this is not a huge issue, it is made into one by the millions ported to the ad. guest: if it's not a big issue i couldn't democrats just say no, biological males can't compete in female sports, it is such a rare thing. guest: fly think the answer were

different, a word about the sports issue as much as the protecting -- guest: surgeries. >> there's no state where there is surgery below 18. host: so let's get back to the callers. i want to hear from steve in florida on the line for democrats, go ahead. caller: hello. the reason why i called is because i think a lot of the democrats problem is that we let the right characterize us. unlike most voters that vote democrat, i believe them unrestricted free-market capitalism, i'm not a socialist. i've worked full-time all my life, i never wanted the government to support me. and as far as all these isolated incidents that happened in the country that are pulled out and reframed as the front and center

of the democratic platform, like these buzzwords like woke. really, what does that even mean? i think that that is a manufactured buzzword like socialism. the way that we are characterized and framed is not what democratic voters are like. and rich, you are one of the people i'd like to sit down and have a cup of coffee with and just talk about as far as politics, what happens in our lives. what develops our political feelings and everything instead of just hiding behind all these phrases and buzzwords.

host: let's let rich respond to that. guest: the term woke, it's not like her publicans came up with that term. he came out of the academic complex, it is a word people on the left apply to themselves. and if you look at the 2019 presidential race, 2020 presidential race, joe biden, traditional democrat, i think he had gone too far left, but he said i'm not going there. i think mild and the credit party still exists. and kamala harris and others race down this track to embrace every wild left-wing position they could come up with, considering abolishing ice, decriminalizing illegal crossings. medicare for all. >> what is radical about medicare for all? >> ending private health insurance is not a position most people are going to support. instantly backed off of it.

she went down this track and i didn't make her do that, republicans didn't do it, she did it because she thought that with the future of the party. then she realized that was not. then she was asked about all the stuff this time around. usually when you flip onto something, and i am all in favor of changing positions on things, i've changed on things myself, but you think it through and you come up with an explanation. host: the callers larger point with this labeling of democrats with these terms, the idea of woke and some of these buzzwords that the caller mentioned as being deployed unfairly against democrats. similar to some of the complaints that you heard during the biden administration from republicans, that many of these other buzzwords are being deployed against them. how do we, if we move beyond this? >> if democrats don't want to be called woke, they shouldn't be woke. they should be a moderate party.

katrina and some callers say these are very rare cases. if they are rare and not important, just say you don't support them. but she couldn't. i don't need to be obsessed, but kamala harris had no compelling explanation for where her position was or why she had taken that radical position or how she would change. she just said i'm going to follow the law. people watch that and say that is not an answer. that is what happened. >> i want to come back to your caller. i do think there is a demonization of issues, of people that precludes having a serious debate about what the future, the short-term future, for example, of the democratic party or the country, or understanding this issue of pushing out incumbents with nativist rights issues is a global issue right now.

i think the fight over woke and what it means and who supports, it distracts from a politics that is about issues that matter to people's lives. and i think i've seen a lot of failure to deal with the transition on the part of republicans because they are fearful about a changing country. it's not going to overtake our country. trans is a social issue that demands attention. the media, especially the republican media in its different forms gives it way too much attention. finally your caller's point that he is not a socialist. i'm a rooseveltian democrat and i think are different kinds of capitalism. there is a predatory capitalism which i think we will see with trump and his crypto people and others, and there is a more humane kind of capitalism. many of my colleagues would disagree, thinking about democratic socialism.

but i do think that we need a full debate about where we are heading as a country, and that demands a lot of rethinking, which is tough for people in this country. and you know, others. host: jewel is in fort lauderdale, florida, on the line for independents. caller: good morning, everyone. i was calling, i'm hearing all the other callers and i have a mixture of people in my inner circle. some are democratic. i am independent. democratic, republican. and i'm hearing the fighting amongst everyone. the problem is, i'm not political and i hate it because it brings out the worst in people, but i've watched this election cycle and my thing is i

don't feel that the incoming president, mr. trump, a lot of us are talking and there are some things i don't agree with both parties, but at the end of the day, we are humans, right? we are supposed to be loving one another. i'm a believer in jesus christ and i don't see that love here with trump. all his rallies have been spewing hatred and demoralizing others. i don't know if there's going to be guardrails up for our safety, and i just don't foresee it. he's going to be bringing in people and there are going to be no guard rails you know. we have the prior generals and other people putting up guardrails, they are all gone.

host: i want to get our guest a chance to respond but first i want to read a statement from liz cheney was obviously campaigning for vice president harris for t of the campaign. our nation democratic system functions and we hnew president-elect. all americans ard, whether we like the outcome or not, to accept the results of our election. we nowa special responsibilitytizens of the greatest nation onth to do everything we can to support and defend our constitution, erve the rule of law, and ensure that our institutions hold over these coming for years. citizens across this country, our courts, members of the press and those serving in a federal, state and local government must now be the guardrails of democracy. both liz cheney and alcohol are talking about guardrails, or the lack thereof in becoming trump administration. >> i agree with most of that

statement, from liz cheney, but we were talking just a couple minutes ago about buzzwords that are simplistic and crude and defame one side. buzzwords like fascism. this is what liz cheney was out there with kamala harris making this case against donald trump and it is completely absurd on almost every level. fascists, one thing they support his expansionist wars abroad. territorial aggrandized them. as katrina was saying, she hopes trump will actually be a traditional republican and that with the case in the first trump term. so this absurd smear against trump. now, there are things he says that he shouldn't. he does freak people out, and he shouldn't. but the caller, and i really appreciate her sincerity, these rallies were not as portrayed. he would say harsh and negative

things, but he would also say wildly optimistic things about unifying the country and the golden age, but those were never in the headlines because the press was so slanted in this race and determined to defeat donald trump. >> there were some pretty crazy things said at the rally. i wanted to say the fascism that were thrown around, it was thrown around too often. robert paxton came to believe that he was witnessing a kind of fascism. fascism is essentially corporate power fused with government state power. i found it interesting. i'm not denouncing it, that elon musk got on a call with the leader of ukraine. it's not clear where that is going to go, bringing in unofficial people, supporters on those calls. >> having unofficial people on calls isn't fascism. >> no, no, i'm saying the power

of musk or some of the other oligarchs, it's going to be very oligarchical. however, project 2025 which many listeners may remember, ineffective trump remains disciplined, it is an outline of what we will witness. weaponizing are politicizing the civil service, the justice department, all of that is frightening. that is a blueprint, if people want to check out what trump and his team intend to do. host: so with the acknowledgment that during the campaign the president-elect distance himself from project 2025, our last caller did bring up this idea that there would no longer be guardrails around the president-elect. the agree with that, and what do you think would be the response to that? >> i think you will see

sustained organizing. at the state level, taking it to the states. movements organizing if there are mass deportations. and i think the progressives and other democrats will be a phalanx. the justice department is one where you could see an expansion of executive power. on the other hand, i still maintain that if -- i do think there is a chance that we have a different kind of engagement with the world where we are not policing, we are not an indefensible nation, understanding that america is one of several. restraint and realism. better than this indispensable nation. >> gary is in winter haven, florida, lying for democrats. caller: i wanted to talk about the results of the election.

it's really simple why the democrats lost. first is the american people have a very low tolerance for economic pain. they don't understand how things work, and they have short memories. i hear a lot about cheap trump gas. that is the covid lockdown and the laws of supply and demand. it had nothing to do with trump policy. and then inflation coming off the covid lockdown, didn't matter whether trump or biden won, we were going to experience that. biden did a pretty good job but he was straddled with economic pain. and then people have short memories. trump lost in 2020 because we were suffering economic pain, we were all in lockdown. biden lost in 2024 because of the effects of the lockdown, we are still experiencing economic pain, the blending of the administration. >> i think this is the last

covid election. i think we forget the impact of covid on our country, economy and society. host: rich, what do you think of that assessment, that whoever happened to be in power during this time of high inflation is a lost? -- basically lost? >> i think there is a lot to that, and they drew findling woke stuff played a role. trump is leading on the economy pretty consistently. some polling three weeks out or show -- so showed harris catching up. they just seems hard for me to believe he was going to lose winning by 10 points or more on the economy. biden didn't cause the inflation solely, but his policies did make it worse with the overspending and just the denial. if you his credibility. and that is something that also played a big role that was entirely biden's fault was the border. he just blew up the border

because he ripped up every trump policy that had worked and reasonable, millions of people flowing in, and after three and a half years, they deny it. even though you have democratic mayors across the city's saying please, make it stop, we can't take this. i know we are supposed to be a sanctuary city but 10,000 illegal immigrants have shown up and it is bankrupting us. finally they did a little bit by convincing mexico to do more stuff as well and promoting this pretty bogus so-called enforcement bill, but biden did that for just no reason to placate the left, largely deals the left is a bully believe we have a moral right to exclude a certain class of people. this is something trump will fix pretty quickly. >> i mean, i think it is a fallacy that he is going to fix it pretty quickly. it is an ongoing, embedded problem. there's new thinking about how

not to weaponize the border, but find a public safety approach. it's been so criminalized and weaponized that is not effective. i think trump, his policy is just not feasible for the economy, for morality and for a real way forward. there's a lot of -- >> remain in mexico totally sustainable, totally humane, and was working, and biden ended it for no reason, just for the sake of it. just because he didn't like trump policies and want to open up the border in the country has paid the price and kamala harris has paid the price. as soon as trump is inaugurated, border flow will go to zero and that will tick up again. host: katrina, your thoughts quickly and then back to our calls. >> it's about the economy. one thing we haven't talked about which is interesting are these trade deals which really

began a process of weakening the american working class. not just helping the mexican working class, but on trade, it's going to be inducing to watch because robert lighthizer, who is the pic i believe, is very close to the left-leaning trade person. so there is this trend partisan alliance in that. rethinking the border has to be humane, effective, and about public safety and security. host: we want to get back to our callers. let's hear from jerry in new jersey on the line for republicans. go ahead, jerry. caller: morning. i saw in a cnn or msnbc, the head of this big hispanic group, and he was saying that the hispanics voted so highly because many of them, cubans or

whatever, came from actual communist countries, and all this trump is hitler and a communist and racist and misogynist, all those names he was saying that all these people that came from a communist country saw exactly what the left with saying and they saw all the laws, lock him up, he is a felon, and they said they left countries that were doing that. and now they see it happening here in america, and they think that the left was the ones that are being communists. now, he also mentioned that harris, when they were running, she had beyonce, lady gaga, oprah, julia roberts, george clooney, stevie wonder. they are all millionaires or billionaires.

when trump had his, he had his friends on. dana white. people that he's been friends with for 50 years. so that also influence them because most of america can't really relate to millionaires. host: your point about hispanic voters, i want to read an article from the miami herald. the headline is to hispanic voters take trump's immigration rhetoric personally? most say no despite former president donald trump's continued rhetoric about immigration, particularly along the southern u.s. border, its support is growing among hispanics with most saying his remarks are not about them, according to a poll. his remarks on immigration have long inflamed his opponent on the left and some influential voices on the right, accusing him of demonizing immigrants in order to score political points which the bulk of attention from

latin america. some of these arguments about trump really did not land well with hispanic voters. what is your take? >> she was discussing cuban voters, and that made the true of cuban voters but this is much broader than that. from has brought a net from traditional republican strength enable the amazing way. democrats, the bargain i offered to hispanics and other groups, you can be an oppressed victim like everyone else, they say no, we just want to be americans, we just want to be part of the mainstream, and they are. they care about the economy more than white voters did. i think that was the overwhelming factor here. hispanic councils have more people in them than any other group in the country. you have inflation, that is going to hurt them more. i'll be done quickly, i promise.

and that also i think the average hispanic voter, the choice is between an democrat, they were the with the fdr democrat. that is not the democratic party anymore. social justice issues appeal to affluent white people overwhelmingly, and these folks, these working-class hispanics are not woke. they are patriotic, they are religious. i think the economy and the wokeness of the democratic party drove these voters into trump's arms. >> i think that is a mischaracterization -- mischaracterization of the democratic party, but i do agree that 2020, the democrats made the mistake of treating latinos as a monolithic group is critically important for that cohort and i think democrats need to press hard and think

hard. host: queens, new york, on the line for democrats. go ahead. all right, let's hear from patrick in florida on the line for independents. caller: well thanks for taking my call. a couple things. one, katrina said nafta with the downfall of american manufacturing. wow. the arab war, richard nixon said keep anything you want to and we got the arab embargo which really hurt. second, you say you are pro-life. i was stationed in germany. trump complained that germany

would buy our food because by german law, chocolate bars can only have three ingredients in them. american chocolate wouldn't do that. you can get american beer over there, but by german law. the reason i say this, i've called twice about the wall street journal having pesticides causing autism. if you don't mind, don't want to get into chocolate so much, pretty broad reaching tariffs that can affect our european allies. katrina? >> you begin with nafta, nafta is the original sin in many ways. the left democrats are not against trade or globalization.

millions have been shafted as a result of these trade deals and many have greatly benefited. so i think that needs to be understood as one of the grievances that is driving the selection, covid, and previous elections. i haven't followed the link to 72 and the oil, but i think the bernie sanders wing of the democratic party was right about the impact of these trade deals not just on the economy, but on the workers. they remain the heart and soul, not just the white working class, but the working-class brown, black of the democratic party. host: rich, can you talk a little bit about some of these proposed tariff that president-elect trump has talked about. >> first of all, i think the most important point is to realize despite the depiction we

get from the left and parts of the right, america has just been economically devastated in the last 15, 20 years. we've advanced much further than the e.u. has. they are higher than they are in advanced european countries. that doesn't mean that there aren't pockets of poverty and problems that we have. on trade, manufacturing has become more productive. part of that, advances in technology are a huge part of it as well. we still make a lot of stuff, we just do it with fewer workers. trump does not agree with what i just said and that is why he's talked about tariffs. this is his firm policy stance he took in his election. he was quite obsessed with it and i think we will see more tariffs and it matters a lot

what form they take. sweeping across the board i think that will be quite counterproductive and intentionally destructive. if we are going to have reciprocal tariffs, we are going to do to you what you do to us, that could actually unleash some dealmaking. it could mean that we're not hurting ourselves as much as we would across the board. steel and things like that, they are inputs to u.s. manufacturing. you help the steel industry specific with those tariffs, but you hurt all sorts of other manufacturers. and that is kind of the story i think on tariffs. host: stephen is in pasadena, california on the line for republicans. did morning. caller: thank you. i am a black american in one of the reasons donald trump won so

much black male support as we know what it is like to be railroaded. we've seen the justice department do things we never thought they would do to anybody else. he supposed to be coming to drain the swamp, right? you don't drain the swamp by giving them parties. but hunter biden did, he deserves it. and he already got away with millions of dollars of money laundering that would have tied him to joe biden. he got away with that already. trump took a poll, the majority would not want him to be president. do not pardon hunter biden. that would be bending over for trump. host: any closing remarks you have. >> i think there are many others that could be pardoned, and i wouldn't lift up hunter biden, though i do agree about the human quality of it. i guess i would say we are analyzing the selection and the weekend after, we are going to

learn a lot more. i do hope that trump stays true to his opposition to endless war because i think this country is in rough shape. i know there are a lot of possibility, but the words deplete, the wars don't get us security. we've provided ukrainethat is me corps in one year. i am not an isolationist. i think military spending is out of control and we need security. that is a different force and strength. veterans day is coming up. guest: i think trump was railroaded. surely fani willis was his

political opponent and so was jack smith, who tortured the laws to come up with these novel theories for why trump violated the law. these cases were profoundly wrong and trump would say, i have been a target by political pundits. he is usually saying they targeted me. i do not think you should target his clinical opponents. that would be wrong and politically destructive. the more important thing to focus on -- this is a great and good country. a caller expressed concern about how children will handle this. people are not obsessed with this. they go about their daily lives and interact with other americans of all partisan brands and every caller and creed with no problem whatsoever. that is what the country is, so we have the poisonous frost of political debate on top of a country where most people are

not obsessed with this every moment and i would endorse the callers we have heard in this hour and earlier as well, just thank you to c-span for having katrina and me on and letting us talk and disagree and occasionally agree. it is a wonderful thing and it is too bad we do not have more of it in the media. my hat is off to katrina and c-span. host: rich lowry is the editor of the national review appeared katrina van -- national review. katrina vanden heuvel is the editorial director of the nation. you can start calling in now. those numbers will be on your screen. >> for the past 10 years commit

test owen has covered extremism -- 10 years, tess owen has covered extremism. she wrote an article with the title inside the patriot wing. she talked with several january 6 defendants who have spent time in the district of columa jail this is the story of how she got to know several who have been convicted of in her words violent crimes. how did she get access to these folks behind bars and what are they saying? >> tess owen on this episode of book neslus. it is available on the c-span now free mobile app or wherever you get your podst >> this week on the c-span

networks, the house and senate return for the first time since the election as they prepare for the upcoming 119 congress in the new year. house and senate republicans are holding leadersh elections. the house gop will select a nominee for speaker. senate republicans will elect a new leader to replace mitch mcconnell. also, newly elected house members and senators will be in d.c. for orientation. watch live on the c-span networks or on our free mobile app. also, head to c-span.org for schedule information or to watch live or on-demand any time. >> the house will be in order. >> c-span celebrates 45 years of covering congress like no other. since 1979, we have been your primary source for capitol hill,

providing balanced, unfiltered coverage, taking you to where policy is debated and decided with the support of america's cable companies. c-span, powered by cable. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are an open forum and ready to hear your comments. democrats can call and at -- in at (202) 748-8000. republicans at (202) 748-8001. independents at (202) 748-8002. the cast of saturday night live has been riffing on campaign 2020 for all year and last night they gave remarks on the results of the presidential election in their cold open. >> americans went to the polls unelected donald trump to be the next president of the united states. >> to many people, the results were shocking and horrifying.

>> donald trump, who try to forcibly overturn the results of the last election, was returned to office by an overwhelming majority. >> this is the same donald trump who called for vengeance against his blood: enemies. >> now, thanks to the supreme court, there are no guardrails. >> nothing to protect the people brave enough to speak out against him. >> that is why we would like to say to donald trump we have been with you all along. >> we have never wavered in our support of you. even when others doubted you. >> every single person on this stage believed in you. >> every person on this stage voted for you. >> because we see ourselves and you up. we look at you and think, that is me. that is the man i want my future children to look up to. >> and we know that you say

things that are controversial sometimes but really you are just speaking the truth and i hate how the lame stream media tried to spin it and make you look foolish. >> so if you have some sort of list of your enemies, we should not be on it. host: saturday night live's take on the election. let's hear your take on the election or other political stories starting with katrina in new jersey. >> thank you for taking my call. i am sorry i missed the guest you had on, but i want to say trump is a supposed billionaire. he is worth a lot of money but has a lot of debt. he is transactional and that is how he operates with people. he is not a conservative.

he added $3 trillion to the debt and took us into covid without leadership. the question i have to america and c-span listeners is how do we overcome as a country the sexism and misogyny in this country? harris was clearly the better candidate but you did not vote for her. i am disheartened about how things went down, but we have to pick up ourselves. it told me a lot about what this america really is. thank you for taking my call. host: anita is on our line for democrats. caller: i'm calling to say this election, there is something wrong. people do not want to hear this, but there is something wrong. how did they start calling this election for this man before all

the polls closed? you still had people in line voting. we as americans are not crazy. something is wrong. these republicans can cry all they want to. this man is not fit to be president. as time goes on and people look into things -- i am telling you, america is better than this. again, america is better than this. and they need to look at elon musk because there is something wrong. we as americans always survive. we always win, but we will not be with trump because he is not going to be there. thanks for your time today. have a blessed day. host: let's look at a portion of vice president kamala harris's concession speech last wednesday in washington. here, she addresses concerns

that the nation is entering a dark time. [video clip] >> i will close with this. a historian once called a law of history. true of every society across the ages. the adage is only when it is dark enough can you see the stars. i know many people feel like we are entering a dark time, but for the benefit of us all i hope that is not the case. but here's the thing. america, if it is, let us fill the sky with the light of a brilliant billion stars. the light of optimism, of faith, of truth, and service.

and may that work guide us even in the face of setbacks toward the extraordinary promise of the united states of america. host: back to her calls in open forum. in massachusetts, our line for republicans. good morning. good morning. can you hear us? audi, are you there? you're a little quiet, but go ahead. caller: i would like to start

off by saying i will call it america, not a miracle. i voted for donald trump. about time we got him there for the people. host: your line is very difficult to hear. i want to make sure we get your point. can you speak a little closer to your phone? caller: can you hear me now? host: it is a little bit hard, but go ahead. caller: americans who are struggling to get a new phone. my point is i voted for donald trump and i will make my point short. there are a lot of problems. the stock market lost 950

billion dollars. migrants have taken over. and i say he makes history by throwing them out as fast as he can. also i would like to say i was ready to go to vote for donald trump. like a proud law-abiding american taxpayer. i would like to say thank you to donald trump for running again and i hope he turns this country around. thank you for taking my call. host: jim is in florida on our line for independents. caller: i have a few things i want to say. first, i watched joe biden's speech thursday. how often did he say he never had spoke to anybody about his kids or his brother's business?

and that was proven, so he just kept lying. that is why had to vote for trump. i have another problem. i owned my own business for 30 years, retired about four years ago. i went one year to college and i hear people talk about the educated versus the uneducated and i guess i am uneducated i own my own business and i'm living the american dream. my wife and i worked for 30 years. host: what kind of business? caller: i had a family business, a grocery store. i had three kids. we all worked there. we sold it four years ago and my capital gains cost me -- i come from a family of seven.

and we had to pay our taxes and everything very legitimately. when i sold my business, i had to pay $360,000 in a capital gains tax, which for a middle-class guy, i was blown away when i discovered that. that was only -- thank god that trump was there because he lowered the capital gains by 15 points or something. that is another reason i voted for him. again, i had three children, put them through college, and now biden wants me to pay other people's educations? so that was another thing. i have a daughter who was in sports. she is too old now, but if i had a daughter -- the woman on your previous show played that men and women's sports.

it is real. so i have that to say. my last thing was with bernie sanders. he had the democrat in 2020, they moved him out. he was making the same moves and the democrats moved him out. as an independent, i was astounded that a democrat would stay in the party when they would not let anybody else run in the primary against joe and then they decided -- who is making these decisions? as an independent, as far as i'm concerned -- i have to be perfectly honest. i have only voted for one guy who has won the presidency and i am 68 years old and i have been voting for a long time. trump is the only guy i ever voted for who won, so i am not that savvy when it comes to

picking presidents. but i want to congratulate america and send my condolences. my daughter, who is 38, was crying when trump won. she went to georgetown and i have to pay that. come on. hallelujah. we have been happy ever since the vote. we have been happy as can be. host: what you're talking about a something a lot of families are experiencing, where different members of the family supported different candidates. how are you doing with your relationship with your daughter around this issue? caller: we cannot talk about it. i have two sons and they are republicans. i am independent. it is kind of funny. i called her on the voting day and reminded her, do not forget to vote tomorrow.

it is not great, but we love each other and it is not that bad. host: next, alan is in california on our line for democrats. caller: thank you for letting me come on. i am curious about something. you know the situation with the supreme court, basically, giving the president almost supreme power. that is what it looks like to me. and haven't if that is the case the democrats -- i'm a democrat now -- the democrats are claiming trump could be a dictator. the fellow in charge right now, still biden, would be president and dictator now or the next person, which is the guy coming

up right now. the biden is in right now. under his authority, according to the supreme court, they could put him behind bars now for what happened on january 6 and another thing is the man has all these legal problems. who needs that kind of thing? the problem is he did these things. people out there are saying it is ok. all the christian people. host: earlier, we had an article from the national review calling for president biden to pardon president elect trump. what do you think of that? caller: that would be possible. he could do that. he could do both. it is up to him which he wanted

to do, but -- the criminals that he is a partly done a lot of inks that are not really very good. and if you want to let him go on that, fine. i do not need to get into what he is not doing, but before the election was gone through, when we got trump, maybe he should have done that. not pardon him, but thrown him in jail. this is wrong. host: let's hear from michelle in california on our line for republicans. caller: i was curious to find out about this immigration and if he is going to have co-op

programs in high schools got which i had in the 1970's and 1980's. it was mandatory that you want to work somewhere and the school would help find you a job if you were not going to college and you would have trades come to the school and try to get the boys. back in those days, girls could not get into those classes, but now things have changed and i wonder if that will be implemented for the immigration issue. minimum-wage jobs or stepping stone jobs. they were not something to live on and over the years you saw they changed the rules. you can limit your parents'-- live at your parents' house until your 25. in my day, you were on the streets when you were 18. i am curious as the program will be back in high schools. host: are you saying the co-op

program will be used in tandem with the immigration proposals were two separate issues? caller: in tandem because he is going to deport these people. they are minimum-wage jobs. we had those in high school. host: you think there will be more employment opportunities for young people if there are fewer undocumented immigrants in united states. caller: the housing crisis would come down because back in those days you could get rent. everything was cheaper. car insurance was not. car insurance was never cheaper come up with the point i was try to make is do you think those would be implemented again? we have not seen those for 20, 30 years now. kids come to high school and they think they will get a job -- you have to have experience. what experience you got? you cannot even balance a checkbook.

that is my main question. do you think it will be back again? host: i guess we will find out when we hear about his nominees for positions in his incoming and ministration. let's go to don in new orleans. good morning. caller: good morning. happy veterans day weekend. it is funny when people say children should be thrown out when they are 18. they was married -- stayed at home. they stayed at home with john abbott so i do not know why people think throwing children out in a market where families are smaller but houses are bigger -- we are building mcmansions, 3000 square-foot palaces for families that are shrinking in size. let me say this on my closing remark about the election.

in new orleans, new orleans produces so many jobs. it is the economic engine of louisiana. it is the economic engine of taurus in louisiana, 20 million come to new orleans. we love it. we enjoy hosting people and events. we are in a red cut republican state. i'm independent, so does not bother me, but i know it bothers in most cases. when i look at what states kamala harris won, she won california, oregon, washington on the west coast. then she won except for michigan and wisconsin but she won the great lakes states. she won the northeast. even up to the mid-atlantic.

those are heavy economic producing states, but if you look at jon tester who lost in montana, they receive federal funding. they receive more federal aid than they pay in taxes and many of those red states except maybe florida and texas are in a similar predicament with west virginia receiving more in federal funding than it pays in taxes. so the economic engines -- you look at red states like atlanta in georgia. atlanta is the economic engine of georgia. he look at houston. host: let's hear from laura in massachusetts on our line for democrats. caller: i voted for kamala harris reluctantly.

i consider myself a progressive and i had to hold my nose to do it because of what the biden administration has done in gaza, how they lost my even thinking that even care about the working class anymore. she keeps using the word middle-class but never wanted to say the word for people because it is almost like now is repulsive for the elite democratic party now to even talk about poor people. it is as if the republicans went so far right and the democrats went so far to the center right. she is going around with liz cheney instead of bernie sanders, so i think the democrats pretty much got what they deserved because the republicans, especially the poor republicans -- the wealthy ones are happy because they will get all they want from their billionaire donors, but -- it is

appalling to see the money put into both campaigns. but they were able to buy the poor man's vote because those people are disgusted with all of it and they think trump who is still called the blue collar billionaire, really cares about them when he is sitting in his mansion in florida. they are delusional thinking that. the problem is they do not want to talk policy. all they want to do is talk personalities and that keeps the eye off the ball got which is his intention. his intentions are to dismantle social programs that could benefit them, so they do not understand they voting against themselves and it is unfortunate that corporate media feeds into this. i see msnbc and cnn try to

figure out what went wrong. you have so many people at the top of the chain now who just do not understand what the working class has been going through in this country. host: let's hear from freddy on our line for republicans. caller: what i for say is joe biden let's all the illegals in and donald trump is going to throw them out. this about the trump being charged with all this stuff, if you think two misdemeanors can turn into 32 felonies, you are going to reap what you sow. hopefully donald trump will return to favor -- return the favor and charge some of you all the same way he did.

host: president-elect trump is in the process of forming his next administration and made statements about that got ruling out, as a story reports, nikki haley and mike pompeo for administration posts. he said saturday that two of his former officials would not be asked to join his second administration. here is the post on truth social showing that statement from president-elect trump. i will not be inviting former ambassador nikki haley or former secretary of state mike pompeo to join with the trump administration, which is in formation. i appreciated working with them previously and would like to thank them for their service to our country. make america great again. back to that article cut why this matters, there is plenty of water under the bridge between nikki haley and the president after they clashed during the

gop primary, though shortly endorsed trump, she rebuked him on the campaign trail as unhinged and toxic. trump aide previously said that she would be on his team in some form after she vowed to vote for him and there was speculation she might serve as his running mate. she issued a statement as well, i was proud to work with esident trump defending america at the united nations. i wish him d l who serve great success in moving us rward to a stronger, safer america over the next four years. let's get back to your calls in open forum. kathy is in nebraska on our line for independents. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. several things here. it feels like, with the election

and everything, i hate to age myself but it looks like soylent green, if you ever watch that back in the 1970's. the rich were rich and the poor were poor and that is the way it was and it feels like that, that rich people and -- in government and other places have no idea. i would like to see or suggest instead of having one person as a president to have a cabinet, maybe a republican, a democrat, and an independent or four so all of them would have to agree on everything as a team instead of giving all the power to one person that so many things can happen, as we know, which --

with one person. regarding trump, i am not sure, to change gears here. i voted for kamala because i wanted a woman. i do not care who it was. men have always ran everything. they are the only ones. i would like to see a woman have a chance and see what they could do with our country. so far as covid and mr. trump, as a president you are supposed to protect and serve the people. i do not see that trump really -- he was more interested in trying to get reelected and telling people to inject bleach. my biggest thing with him is i

was -- i had gotten covid. i had covid. it destroyed part of my brain. and i could barely function because donald trump was talking about injecting bleach and that the breeze in march was going to get rid of it and no one saved anybody. it was terrible, all the people that died. so there is nothing i can do. i am an older person. i am on social security and was having brain fog and other issues and living on $45 a week. i do not think anyone ever would understand how i feel and then

right after covid happened i had gone to the dentist office and i am not sure what happened there. host: i am going to go onto to the next person. ray is in california on our line for democrats. caller: good morning. i agree with the previous caller about covid. one of the reasons i do not want to vote for trump is in january he knew the pandemic was going to be awful, but instead of doing something that would help people he came out and said that it was a democratic coax and did not do anything really until march. even part of his own committee said that between january and march we could have saved about 200,000 people. the other thing is he came into office having been convicted of

fraud, which had nothing to do with democrats whatsoever. he had a fraudulent trump university and marketed it deceptively and had to pay $25 million. the other thing is that i wonder how many of the children that they took from immigrants at the border -- how many of them have never been reunited with their parents and will never be reunited with her parents because the children did not know who their parents were -- the address and so forth and were too young to even know their mother's names. i thought that was atrocious. so i am wondering if anybody ever thought about a class action lawsuit to hold trump responsible for trying to deceive people regarding the

covid pandemic since there were so many lives lost unnecessarily. and even after march when he finally started getting things going, he had states competing for things like personal protective equipment and remember him saying, i am not a shipping company or something of that nature. i do not think this man is fit to be in office. he has done so many unethical things and i voted for kamala because how can we be the greatest country in the world when we have people living on the streets? she was talking about building a large number of housing for affordable housing. host: let's hear from anthony in

pennsylvania on our line for republicans. caller: good morning. since the results tuesday, i am watching cnn and msnbc and listening to certain respondents on c-span. i watch washington journal every morning. the level of trump derangement syndrome has turned into trump derangement depression. it is kinda funny to watch because these people, especially the media, have gone after trump since he came down the escalator appear the fbi, cia, they have all conspired against him from the beginning with the russia collusion with the 51 guys, the cia people who denounced hunter biden's laptop as russian misinformation. alvin bragg and jack smith --

that was all coordinated with the white house and prove they all met with the white house counsel and people with the doj worked with letitia james and alan bragg. the people are now getting there comeuppance. i love listening to the trumped arrangement depression because they got with they were ghastly into appear these people are too stupid to understand the biden administration was in warfare against a political rival. trump should not be pardoned. he did not do anything wrong. letitia james went against trump from the beginning. they lost. happy sunday, everybody. host: we have our -- gar on our line for independents. caller: strap on your belt

because you are getting ready to go on a roller coaster ride. it is going to be drama because we know we have a drama queen in office. we know it. and the thing about it, your guest was talking about woke. that means to be aware and republicans put people to sleep. that is how a guy with more crimes in al capone and bill cosby -- more crimes than all of them put together. put him in office. so you know they put people to sleep. like i said, put on a roller coaster belt because you are getting ready to go on a drama ride. thank you. host: jim is in missouri on our line for democrats. caller: i am not surprised that america did not vote for a black female. going back to the obama

presidency, that was the genesis of trump, birth tourism -- birtherism and we have to take america back back from who? i would say the black people, is their thought process. labeling immigrants as illegal immigrants is a prejudicial thing. they present themselves at the border and get asylum here, they are not illegal. trump tries to deport those 20 million people that he talks about, what would happen to our gdp and our workforce that is too small to fill the jobs we have now? his economic proposals, you would think a businessman would know how they work. china does not write a check. it comes out of our pockets.

let's see. political influence for sale. elon musk. perfect example. why would he want to mess around in politics? he needs another tax break? i am depressed. good day. host: mike is in texas on our line for republicans. >> in regard to illegal immigrants, asylum is defined by going to the nearest adjacent country from which you are fleeing. it is not to go to the country on the other side of the globe and land on our border and have our tsa or border agents act as travel agents. we are taking them in and spending money we do not have. in 2000 1999, newton and bill

clinton balanced -- newt and bill clinton spec -- balance the budget. at some point, someone will have to start paying direct interest on this. right now, it is about $1 trillion a year, so some of that -- someone has to go to d.c. and reform those to parts of paperwork that seem to be in every building. i have been to d.c.. just walk through the city. the federal buildings -- who works there? do part of education the pentagon -- department of education, the pentagon, they need to be reformed. the people who work there, they have a better risk of dying at their desk than of getting fired. also, if trump walked across the hudson river -- if you walked across it, some of the democrat

callers, i know they mean well and they are upset. some of them would say that he cannot swim. i am stunned how much they look in the rearview member instead of trying to find ways to restore departments. there are so many departments that under deliver in everything. the departed of education. who do they teach there? host: it has been discussed on the campaign trail and elsewhere that rfk junior might have a potential role in the trump administration and one of the things he has said specifically as he would want to eliminate many departments, including some components of the department of education and potentially the fda. what do you think of those proposals? caller: what happens is it is a good idea. a lot of the departments have overlapping roles and i think there is so much spending and so many people. what i would be interested in is

comparing the spending of the departments he from 2010 to 2005 or even when the budget was balanced and compare the rate of increase over the past 20 years because i assure you the rates of increase in these individual department is substantial. let's look at money spent at the pentagon. there are places that could be trimmed and fat eliminated. we have to look at how we are spending money in these departments. we spend a lot of money on solar efforts and alternative energy and we never hear about all those failed efforts. we have to reform these things and audit them like we never have before. host: next is lisa in texas.

caller: good morning. i live in texas, one of the border states. i want people to try to understand real quick that we have grave concerns. can you hear me ok? i apologize. i want people to real quick stop and think about 2001 and how we were attacked and we feel like we are at great risk still because all these millions of people at the borders and something else i want to say, when president trump was in office he tried his best to address our economy, the deficit. he is not perfect. none of these politicians are. my voice shakes as i talk because what concerns me is that i feel like our country is never going to be united and i am going to blame some of this on

the mainstream media because most of the media did nothing but harass him when he was in office. when he was addressing covid, they would get him off subject and talk about other things. let me say this last. biden could not even talk -- he will not even answer questions at news conferences. kamala could not even address things. all i want to end this with -- our biggest concern now is the economy. i believe people have the right to come to our country legally. more than anything, as an independent and american, i want to see this country united. thank you so much. host: jim is in ohio on our line for democrats. good morning.

caller: my problem is project 2025. i am a senior citizen. today is my birthday. i am 80 years old. and as far as i am concerned, i think donald trump is too old to be in office. even though he has wisdom, still he is too old and i think harris come as far as i'm concerned -- i did not know which one to vote for because i did not want either of them. we need younger people in office. i think before this is over jd vance will be our president, within the next four years. that is about all i have to say. thanks for taking my call. host: robert is in maine on our

line for republicans. caller: good morning. i hear a lot of people that are really upset on both sides. i would like to see the temperature come down and i blame a lot of it on the mainstream media. that cannot be denied. we all know that. i want to -- if you're depressed and it is continual, you should seek help. that is what professionals are for because it is not normal to have such depression about political things. that is what i really hope people that cannot shake it, that they get the help they need. that is all. host: keith is in colorado on our line for independents. caller: thanks for taking my call.

i have been listening to the calls this morning and i am pretty struck as to how four years ago when trump lost all you heard was fraud, these elections are rigged, this is no good, this is terrible, all these things. four years later, all the elections are great and there is no fraud and every thing is good. i think the american people have to take a look at how we are assessing this election and the previous elections and how we assess elections going forward. biden was an awful candidate. i do not think there question about that. some of the decisions he made were bad. i think the vice president suffered from that unpopularity. i think, to the point a lot of people have said, the media has been responsible for the trump phenomenon. he tells all these fantastic

misrepresentations. everything is more stunning than the previous statement. this issue about illegal immigration -- it has been demagogued for years and it is unfortunate the more unfortunate thing is you have poor people in mississippi, alabama, louisiana who look at trump -- they are poor and think trump is going to deliver them from poverty or they just could not vote for this woman who did not look like them. i think that is the bigger concern that people going forward should have. they will be poor in four years, in eight years, but they did not want to give this woman a chance because of their own bias and that is unfortunate. host: maria is in illinois on our line for democrats. good morning. caller: trump should be behind

bars as well as biden, hunter. hunter should be not above the law as well as trump. trump is not finished with this world, but it will take jesus to take care of everything. trump will be behind bars. he is not above the law. host: thomas is in illinois on our line for republicans. good morning. caller: i just noticed something over the last four elections. that in 2012 we democrats got 65.9 million votes front 2016 clinton got 65.8 million.

2020, biden got 81.2 and this year harris got 60 8.6. democrats lamenting the fact that harris could not maintain the level that biden got, i think this demonstrates very effectively that trump won the last time. because of the -- there is no way that that many new votes -- that the total votes in 2020 was 20 million votes more than any of the last four elections. it proves that to me the extra votes that came in the previous election were bogus.

host: next is virginia in california. good morning. caller: i wanted to question this talk about immigration and the vote from 2008 and all of this. i am concerned about medicare and the social security system. i do not know these people realize and how many young and old are calling in, but -- host: your line is bringing up a little bit. caller: i am right here. host: go ahead. caller: i was disturbed about all of this talk and concerned about throwing out social security, medicare, a lot of programs that help everyone in united states and some of the

other things today -- i do not think that even heard that he is in the process of tossing these things aside. how are we going to survive? thank you. host: thomas is in michigan on our line for democrats. can you hear us? caller: i can hear you. i don't understand how people that voted for trump realize what is in store for the next four years or it might be the next eight. the man is a criminal. you might as well let any criminal out to run for president. with trump -- trump is a monster, ok? i cannot hear you. host: i did not say anything. caller: i saw your mouth moving

that is all i had to say. it is going to be like a roller coaster up and down with more down than ups. host: mark is in missouri on our line for republicans. caller: i think the american people should understand what is going on with the democratic party. kamala harris, we haven't heard much from her in the last couple years she was in office or has been in office. she has been in south america recruiting people to come to the border and says they will fast track people into our country within three months. that was our border bill. that was on the border bill, to fast-track illegals coming in to become citizens. i think the american people need to know this. host: claude is in san diego on

our line for independents. caller: i will say that the american people seem to have lost faith in the democratic party behind rach primaries and things like that, not just with this election -- rigged primaries and things like that, not just this election. a gentleman said something about 20 million lost votes. i will say that during the hillary clinton election i noticed a lot of -- and then the 2020 election a lot more people voted because the pandemic was an issue, so i do not feel like there was 20 million lost votes. i just feel like there was more motivation to vote, like this election. or people were motivated to vote because everybody is hurting.

the economy was the number one issue and it seems like democrats ignored it. host: daniel is in texas on our line for republicans. go ahead. what is your comment? caller: trump was in office for four years. we had the best economy in the world. -- to canada -- so the thing is when biden got in office and his first few days he unplugged america. host: i think we have lost your line. let's hear from roland in maryland on our line for democrats. good morning. caller: thanks for taking my

call. the press never insists -- with trump? democrats sometimes -- i feel like -- how many jobs were created during trump? they cannot answer it. trump inherited the obama economy. can anybody republican call from west virginia and states like that? and tell me what has changed from when obama was there to win trump was there and how his trump -- your life? it is a sad case. if you voted for trump 100% --

find ways to come up with excuses that it is the economy, even though she is promising to help. i want republicans to answer me. and especially west virginia. host: john is in massachusetts on our line for independents. caller: it is funny how our taxes have gone to the upper echelon's higher class, like the world health organization, the trilateral commission, the council on foreign relations, the united nations, all european countries who basically have colonized the world. you have anthony sutton who told you the united states with the other countries were supposed to pardon communism and fascism so

now we have zionism in israel and a bunch of pedophiles at the higher echelons, so why are these people not in prison, since they are murdering people all over the planet? colored people cannot have a place to go without some european bombing their country over the resources. let's get with it right now. we are being colonized in this country. so i think people should get up because there are two sides of the same coin. trump and biden are nothing but zionists. rothschild zionists, at that. i want people to do real research. host: we will have to end it there because we are out of time today. thanks to everyone who called in. we weep -- we'll will be back tomorrow morning. have a great day.

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